233 | Incorporating Sand Trays in the Child-Centered Play Therapy Playroom

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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I am answering a question from Laura in Washington State.

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Essentially about as far away from me

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as possible,

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at least in

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the United States proper.

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I know Alaskans are technically probably further away,

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depending on where you live in Alaska.

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But

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Laura in Washington,

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Brenna in Florida,

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literally top to bottom,

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side to side,

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about as far away as it gets.

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My niece and nephew in-law actually live in the Seattle

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area and I've been there and it is very lovely.

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We loved the market.

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We

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loved Seattle Mariners Stadium

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and we actually left for an Alaskan cruise out of the Seattle port.

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So

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anyway,

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I have good connections and memories in the Seattle area.

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So Laura,

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thank you for the email.

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Her question is about

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sand therapy

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in the CCPT playroom.

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Which I'm really excited to talk about this,

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so I'll read parts of Laura's email and then we'll dive in together.

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So she says,

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could you do a podcast episode on Santray therapy,

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the use of a sand tray in CCPT,

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the

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theory behind why it's useful,

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essential miniatures to have,

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etc.

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I'm finishing up my degree and I've been

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doing CCPT at my practicum setting with kids.

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I abhor the texture of sand on my skin.

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Do not come to coastal Florida.

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You will be very unhappy.

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We have beaches everywhere and they're so pretty.

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Clearwater Beach.

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Public service announcement,

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y'all.

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Clearwater Beach,

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which is where I grew up,

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my hometown,

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legit.

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Oh,

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OK.

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Can I tell a related a side story and then I'll get back to the beach story.

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This is a very recent conversation that my mom,

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brother,

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and I had.

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So we were talking about hometowns because a lot of country

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songs talk about hometown and I was sharing my thought on

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there's a song that says,

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I'm proud of where I'm from.

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And so I was kind of just pondering what am I proud of of being from Clearwater,

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Florida.

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So I was sharing just my thoughts with my mom and she says,

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Where would you say your hometown is?

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And I said,

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Clearwater.

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She says,

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you were born in Dunedin,

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which is an adjacent city,

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smaller adjacent city.

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And I said,

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well,

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I was born in Dunedin Hospital,

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but

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My home,

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like my first home that I lived in was in Clearwater,

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and she's like,

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but you weren't born in Clearwater,

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you were born in Dunedin.

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And I was just so perplexed by this.

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So then I'm like,

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Brandon,

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my brother.

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I'm like,

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Brandon,

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weigh in here.

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Would you,

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where would you say you're from?

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He was not

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privy to the conversation my mom and I had,

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so he was not swayed in his vote.

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I randomly texted him in that moment and said,

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where would you say you're from if someone asked,

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what's your hometown?

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And he goes,

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Clearwater.

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And I'm like,

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thank you.

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So now I need y'all to weigh in.

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Is it the,

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the city in which the hospital

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You were born,

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is that your hometown or is it like the house you lived in,

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your hometown?

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I'm curious because I think I'm in the right here.

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My mom disagrees,

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my brother's on my side.

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I want to hear from you,

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brenna@thekidcounselor.com.

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These are the things that swirl in my brain,

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y'all.

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This is,

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this is what occupies my time

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when I'm not thinking about CCPT,

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which is rare,

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but it,

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it happens.

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OK,

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so back to the beach.

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Clearwater Beach,

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my hometown as I claim it anyway.

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I always,

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always,

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always,

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always top 10 beaches in the whole world.

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Like if you look at the beach ratings,

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Clearwater Beach always makes top 10 rankings.

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So if you are in a frigid area of the country or the world

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and it's winter

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and you would like to come to sunny beachy,

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beautiful palm tree laden Florida.

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Even though Laura does not want any sand on her,

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but if the rest of you are interested in that,

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come hang out with me.

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We will go to Clearwater Beach.

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It'll be a great day.

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All right,

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I'm back on track,

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I promise.

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So,

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I abhor.

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I can't even say that word.

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Why would you abhor sand?

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Oh my gosh,

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I can't fathom it.

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OK.

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I abhor the texture of sand on my skin,

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so I have avoided buying sand for my playroom.

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I understand that sentiment.

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Additionally,

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I'm in a shared office space.

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The playroom I have set up is one of many rooms

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that other interns can reserve for use with their clients.

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But in case a different therapist needs it needs it right after me,

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I have to be able to clean everything up in a timely manner,

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which has also scared me away from sand.

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But I just started working with a 13 year old,

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which is my first older child that I'll be doing CCPT with.

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She has really intense anxiety in addition

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to perfectionism and anxiety related to school performance

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that she and her mom have reported,

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I saw manifestations of her anxiety in our first session

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where she spent the whole session meticulously organizing the room.

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Sounds about right.

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Something tells me that a sand tray might appeal to her.

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Yes,

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I would like to have that as an option in my playroom for her and other kids.

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Double yes.

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do you have any tips on how to set up a sand tray and

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the essential miniatures to have obviously for use in the context of CCPT?

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Thanks so much.

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I appreciate the work that you do.

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All right,

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Laura,

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so not only am I going to make you a sand therapy convert,

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you might actually not hate the the feeling of sand on your skin at some point.

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It's a possibility.

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So here are my thoughts on sand work.

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I've been getting a lot of questions lately actually about.

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Having a sand tray in a CCPT playroom.

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So this is a really helpful question.

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I'm glad we're talking through this.

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My first thought,

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that this is kind of just brain dump for you all.

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My first thought is,

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if you have to have quick cleanup,

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if you don't particularly like the feel or texture

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of sand and or you're worried about the mess,

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you have two main go to options.

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You can either buy kinetic sand,

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which is far easier to clean up,

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doesn't stick to things,

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doesn't make near as much of a mess,

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and you can typically have smaller

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areas

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in which kids can use kinetic sand.

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In other words,

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you don't need a massive sand tray with kinetic sand.

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Because it functions differently,

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so the container can be far smaller.

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So kinetic sand is going to be one option.

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Jurassic sand

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is another.

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That's the only sand I've used for years in my center.

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All of my therapists have Jurassic sand.

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There's all different grains,

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all different colors,

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all different styles,

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but why I love it,

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it's dust-free #1,

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it's washable #2,

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and number 3,

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it

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does not stick to things and

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it

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is just high.

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quality,

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better sand.

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I used to go to like Home Depot or Lowe's,

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which for my international people,

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that's home improvement stores in the states,

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and just get there literally,

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it's called play sand.

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So it was designed to go in outdoor sandboxes most of the time.

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But

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it

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was more like beach sand,

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to be honest with you,

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and it stuck to everything

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and it was not washable,

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and it was dusty,

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and there were just all,

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it started to smell bad after a while after it had been

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wet and dried and wet and dried and wet and dried,

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it starts to stink.

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Long story short,

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we switched to Jurassic Sand,

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and we've been really happy with that.

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I don't have any affiliation with them.

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You know what,

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I'm gonna see if maybe I could get you all a coupon code

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for all my listeners.

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So let me see what I can work that out.

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But what I'm trying to say is I'm not pushing them,

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plugging them.

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I'm not gonna get a kickback from it.

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I just use it myself and I really think that they are,

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to me,

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what I have found to be my favorite sand product for sand work.

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So,

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those are your two options there.

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Here's another thought,

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with an older girl,

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13,

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especially an anxious one.

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You are far less likely to have a mess made

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with sand work.

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So your younger kids

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likely to make messes either accidental or on purpose.

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Older kids,

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you typically don't have as much of a concern of the

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sand getting spilled or thrown or making a huge mess.

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So I think for your first one,

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it's probably a pretty safe bet,

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Laura,

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that a 13 year old,

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especially an anxious one,

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is likely not going to make a mess if you add sand to your playroom.

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So what do you need

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to make this happen?

279
00:08:17,140 --> 00:08:19,250
You need a small container,

280
00:08:19,420 --> 00:08:20,579
ideally with a lid.

281
00:08:21,450 --> 00:08:23,829
And you want to have it on a table or on a stand.

282
00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:25,079
Either one,

283
00:08:25,119 --> 00:08:28,160
it can even be on a rolling cart and you can push it out of the way when you don't want

284
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,270
to use it and you can roll it out when a child wants to or you wanna have it available,

285
00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,070
but it needs to be on something that is about at

286
00:08:36,260 --> 00:08:37,330
stomach height,

287
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:38,429
give or take.

288
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,200
So you don't want it really low on the floor,

289
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:41,409
you don't want it really high,

290
00:08:41,419 --> 00:08:43,750
you kind of want it at stomach or so level.

291
00:08:44,799 --> 00:08:47,030
And it can be portable or not portable,

292
00:08:47,070 --> 00:08:47,309
whatever,

293
00:08:47,390 --> 00:08:48,859
it just needs to sit on something.

294
00:08:49,510 --> 00:08:51,340
And here's why sand work

295
00:08:51,650 --> 00:08:52,979
is really important.

296
00:08:53,309 --> 00:08:54,750
It's very self-s soothing.

297
00:08:55,500 --> 00:08:56,909
The kinesthetic nature of it,

298
00:08:57,070 --> 00:08:58,500
the repetitive nature of it,

299
00:08:58,590 --> 00:08:59,539
it's tactile,

300
00:08:59,630 --> 00:09:00,349
it's sensory,

301
00:09:00,429 --> 00:09:01,419
it's all this stuff.

302
00:09:01,590 --> 00:09:02,869
There's self soothing

303
00:09:03,109 --> 00:09:06,030
when a child just does repetitive behavior in sand.

304
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,719
I think it would be really ideal for this client that you're describing,

305
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:10,229
Laura.

306
00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:12,729
And that's why I do actually think that

307
00:09:13,159 --> 00:09:15,429
when you have highly anxious kids in your playroom,

308
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,080
having a sand tray is just so powerful for them.

309
00:09:19,119 --> 00:09:23,469
So to move on to your question about what miniatures would you want to have?

310
00:09:23,669 --> 00:09:25,989
The simplest answer is you want to think about

311
00:09:25,989 --> 00:09:29,460
the three categories of toys in a child-centered playroom,

312
00:09:29,750 --> 00:09:32,979
and you want to represent those three categories well

313
00:09:33,229 --> 00:09:34,099
in your miniatures.

314
00:09:34,859 --> 00:09:36,469
You have acting out aggressive toys,

315
00:09:36,609 --> 00:09:37,679
you have emotional,

316
00:09:37,849 --> 00:09:38,630
creative,

317
00:09:39,010 --> 00:09:39,969
artistic toys,

318
00:09:40,039 --> 00:09:41,489
and you have real life toys.

319
00:09:41,809 --> 00:09:42,559
Therefore,

320
00:09:42,650 --> 00:09:43,539
your miniatures,

321
00:09:43,690 --> 00:09:45,659
you wanna have animals,

322
00:09:45,809 --> 00:09:47,400
you wanna have people,

323
00:09:47,650 --> 00:09:48,760
you want to have

324
00:09:48,969 --> 00:09:50,700
nature related items,

325
00:09:51,570 --> 00:09:53,239
anything for real life.

326
00:09:54,710 --> 00:09:56,770
Buildings and structures,

327
00:09:57,219 --> 00:09:58,500
fantasy elements.

328
00:09:59,539 --> 00:10:00,330
Bridges

329
00:10:02,169 --> 00:10:04,289
If you don't have a sand tray with a blue bottom,

330
00:10:04,450 --> 00:10:07,520
you want to have something that can be representative of water.

331
00:10:09,419 --> 00:10:09,940
Ideally,

332
00:10:09,979 --> 00:10:11,570
what you're doing is

333
00:10:12,590 --> 00:10:17,260
Presenting a child with all kinds of different options to create

334
00:10:17,630 --> 00:10:19,859
out of those three categories what they need.

335
00:10:21,059 --> 00:10:21,780
And

336
00:10:22,020 --> 00:10:24,380
you really ideally don't ever just want one animal,

337
00:10:24,460 --> 00:10:25,130
for example.

338
00:10:25,260 --> 00:10:26,419
If you're going to have a zebra,

339
00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,369
you want to have 2 or 3 zebras because it needs to be able to make a family.

340
00:10:30,820 --> 00:10:31,820
If you're going to have an elephant,

341
00:10:31,900 --> 00:10:33,219
you want 2 or 3 elephants.

342
00:10:33,690 --> 00:10:36,039
So try not to just get one figure at a time.

343
00:10:36,059 --> 00:10:36,280
I mean,

344
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:36,960
here and there,

345
00:10:37,039 --> 00:10:37,989
it's no big deal.

346
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,390
If you do have animal families,

347
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,950
you can have some individual animals as well,

348
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,150
but you don't want 75 individual animals

349
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,830
and no family units made up of animals.

350
00:10:49,119 --> 00:10:49,869
Similarly,

351
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,989
you can have random people figurines,

352
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:53,419
but you certainly want

353
00:10:53,750 --> 00:10:56,570
people figurines that make up a family as well.

354
00:10:57,789 --> 00:10:59,510
All kinds of nature elements,

355
00:10:59,630 --> 00:11:00,109
so trees,

356
00:11:00,150 --> 00:11:00,549
bushes,

357
00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:01,070
flowers,

358
00:11:01,270 --> 00:11:01,900
rocks,

359
00:11:02,210 --> 00:11:02,820
sticks,

360
00:11:03,150 --> 00:11:04,260
pine cones.

361
00:11:05,109 --> 00:11:06,989
Anything you would find in nature really

362
00:11:07,270 --> 00:11:08,380
fake or real,

363
00:11:08,750 --> 00:11:09,460
and

364
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:10,770
structures,

365
00:11:11,150 --> 00:11:11,340
you know,

366
00:11:11,510 --> 00:11:12,070
hospitals,

367
00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:13,140
jails,

368
00:11:13,789 --> 00:11:15,309
schoolhouses,

369
00:11:15,789 --> 00:11:18,229
all kinds of things, little wishing wells,

370
00:11:18,390 --> 00:11:19,229
those are really popular.

371
00:11:19,469 --> 00:11:20,739
Kids love wishing wells.

372
00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:23,260
Anything that's a structure in the world.

373
00:11:23,950 --> 00:11:24,469
Bridges,

374
00:11:24,549 --> 00:11:26,780
very powerful symbol and sand work,

375
00:11:27,390 --> 00:11:28,419
ladders,

376
00:11:29,070 --> 00:11:29,580
think about,

377
00:11:29,809 --> 00:11:29,950
you know,

378
00:11:30,070 --> 00:11:31,309
if a child's creating a world,

379
00:11:31,390 --> 00:11:33,059
what would they need in the world?

380
00:11:33,479 --> 00:11:34,830
I have a little metal mailbox.

381
00:11:34,869 --> 00:11:35,690
I love it.

382
00:11:36,270 --> 00:11:39,659
So just think about things that a child could use to create a world,

383
00:11:39,750 --> 00:11:40,630
real life stuff,

384
00:11:40,869 --> 00:11:41,419
food,

385
00:11:41,789 --> 00:11:42,619
drinks,

386
00:11:42,830 --> 00:11:43,549
plates,

387
00:11:43,690 --> 00:11:44,830
pots,

388
00:11:45,070 --> 00:11:46,429
and these are all small scale,

389
00:11:46,549 --> 00:11:46,729
right?

390
00:11:46,849 --> 00:11:48,270
And some of that's going to be hard to find,

391
00:11:48,309 --> 00:11:49,940
so just do what you can.

392
00:11:50,510 --> 00:11:50,960
And

393
00:11:51,229 --> 00:11:51,349
here,

394
00:11:51,369 --> 00:11:52,340
here's the,

395
00:11:52,750 --> 00:11:54,500
the blessing and the curse of sand work.

396
00:11:56,119 --> 00:11:58,669
You will never have all the miniatures that you want,

397
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,080
even when you have too many.

398
00:12:01,130 --> 00:12:01,520
So,

399
00:12:01,859 --> 00:12:02,559
here's your,

400
00:12:02,609 --> 00:12:04,400
here's your fair warning right now.

401
00:12:04,530 --> 00:12:05,919
You get into sand work,

402
00:12:06,130 --> 00:12:06,760
you will

403
00:12:07,049 --> 00:12:10,369
forever be buying miniatures even when you have more than

404
00:12:10,369 --> 00:12:12,739
you need because there are always more that you want.

405
00:12:13,549 --> 00:12:15,109
It's a never ending

406
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:16,950
money drain,

407
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:17,520
but

408
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:18,520
it's put to good use,

409
00:12:18,599 --> 00:12:19,190
I suppose.

410
00:12:20,130 --> 00:12:22,659
So just start with basics.

411
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:24,229
Just like with toys,

412
00:12:24,349 --> 00:12:25,940
kids will use what they have.

413
00:12:26,469 --> 00:12:29,150
So just because you don't have 700 miniatures,

414
00:12:29,309 --> 00:12:30,320
if you have 70,

415
00:12:30,390 --> 00:12:32,429
they will use what is available to them

416
00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:34,260
and they'll creatively figure it out.

417
00:12:35,169 --> 00:12:35,690
Just

418
00:12:35,919 --> 00:12:38,929
have as much as you can 3 categories of toys represented.

419
00:12:39,609 --> 00:12:42,200
And here's my final thought on a sand

420
00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:43,059
tray

421
00:12:43,419 --> 00:12:45,020
in a CCPT playroom.

422
00:12:46,169 --> 00:12:48,260
Much of santray training

423
00:12:48,570 --> 00:12:50,340
is Jungian or Adlerian.

424
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,429
When we have sand trays in our CCPT playrooms,

425
00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:00,789
we are not following Jungian and Adlerian theory for how to do sand work.

426
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,270
We're not telling them to choose a character for each person and their family.

427
00:13:04,479 --> 00:13:06,590
We're not telling them to name their world.

428
00:13:06,719 --> 00:13:08,500
We're not telling them to,

429
00:13:08,919 --> 00:13:12,119
we're not asking them to tell us what they would change about their world,

430
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,010
what they would add to their world.

431
00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:16,309
That is not CCPT.

432
00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,599
When we have a sandtray in a CCPT playroom.

433
00:13:20,539 --> 00:13:23,419
We treat it just as any other toy option.

434
00:13:24,330 --> 00:13:26,580
So they can choose to play with it or not play with it,

435
00:13:26,619 --> 00:13:28,010
and if they choose to play with it,

436
00:13:28,070 --> 00:13:31,340
we respond exactly the same way we would to them playing with

437
00:13:31,789 --> 00:13:32,659
the army men

438
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:34,700
or the stuffed animals,

439
00:13:34,909 --> 00:13:37,140
or the puppets or anything else.

440
00:13:37,349 --> 00:13:38,719
We reflectively respond.

441
00:13:39,599 --> 00:13:41,030
You put that there.

442
00:13:41,299 --> 00:13:41,419
Oh,

443
00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:41,880
that guy,

444
00:13:41,979 --> 00:13:43,530
you chose that one for there.

445
00:13:43,619 --> 00:13:43,739
Oh,

446
00:13:43,820 --> 00:13:44,690
you got it.

447
00:13:44,859 --> 00:13:46,340
You found a spot for it.

448
00:13:46,619 --> 00:13:49,289
You're going to use the exact same

449
00:13:49,619 --> 00:13:50,570
interaction

450
00:13:50,979 --> 00:13:52,729
that is adherent to CCPT

451
00:13:53,020 --> 00:13:55,450
even when a child is doing something in the sand.

452
00:13:55,979 --> 00:13:56,979
We don't ask questions,

453
00:13:57,099 --> 00:13:58,010
it's not directive,

454
00:13:58,059 --> 00:13:59,349
it's not projective.

455
00:13:59,580 --> 00:14:02,809
It's not anything other than CCPT all the way.

456
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:06,929
So if they choose to do something with miniatures in the sand.

457
00:14:07,719 --> 00:14:10,309
That's the same thing as if they choose to play a board game,

458
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,349
or they choose to throw the darts against the target.

459
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,200
It's just another option.

460
00:14:15,479 --> 00:14:18,950
So we do not deviate or change our CCPT approach,

461
00:14:19,159 --> 00:14:21,039
it just becomes another option for kids.

462
00:14:22,039 --> 00:14:22,549
So Laura,

463
00:14:22,630 --> 00:14:23,700
thank you so much for the email.

464
00:14:23,729 --> 00:14:25,340
I hope that that was helpful to you,

465
00:14:25,429 --> 00:14:26,719
but to everyone as well.

466
00:14:26,830 --> 00:14:27,739
Maybe you haven't

467
00:14:27,989 --> 00:14:29,830
put a sand tray in your room yet because

468
00:14:29,830 --> 00:14:31,869
you didn't really know how you could integrate that.

469
00:14:32,030 --> 00:14:35,099
I hope that it gives you the courage and the excitement to

470
00:14:35,309 --> 00:14:37,299
think about it because it really does add

471
00:14:37,549 --> 00:14:38,940
a special element

472
00:14:39,150 --> 00:14:40,190
to our work with kids.

473
00:14:40,830 --> 00:14:41,070
All right,

474
00:14:41,190 --> 00:14:41,950
I love you all.

475
00:14:42,030 --> 00:14:42,989
If you want to get in touch with me,

476
00:14:43,070 --> 00:14:44,780
brenna@thekidcounselor.com,

477
00:14:44,950 --> 00:14:45,619
as I mentioned,

478
00:14:45,909 --> 00:14:49,419
only 2 podcasts for these 2 weeks in November that I'm in Australia.

479
00:14:49,669 --> 00:14:50,200
I'm fine.

480
00:14:50,309 --> 00:14:51,179
Don't be alarmed.

481
00:14:51,349 --> 00:14:53,789
I always do appreciate it when I don't release a podcast and

482
00:14:53,789 --> 00:14:55,830
I get a whole bunch of people reaching out and saying,

483
00:14:55,969 --> 00:14:56,940
Is everything OK?

484
00:14:57,469 --> 00:14:58,669
So I promise you I'm fine.

485
00:14:59,390 --> 00:15:02,979
And if you have been thinking about joining the Collective,

486
00:15:03,020 --> 00:15:08,460
we would love to have you our online community for CCPTs. www.CCPTcollective.com.

487
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:09,169
Check it out.

488
00:15:09,380 --> 00:15:11,609
We've had so many new members join and

489
00:15:11,609 --> 00:15:13,419
really excited about what's happening in there.

490
00:15:13,539 --> 00:15:13,849
So

491
00:15:14,179 --> 00:15:15,640
if you've been kind of on the fence,

492
00:15:15,859 --> 00:15:16,640
please dive in,

493
00:15:16,780 --> 00:15:18,570
give it a trial and see what you think.

494
00:15:18,619 --> 00:15:19,619
We'd love to have you.

495
00:15:19,859 --> 00:15:20,140
OK,

496
00:15:20,340 --> 00:15:20,729
love you all.

497
00:15:20,739 --> 00:15:21,580
We'll talk again soon.

498
00:15:21,739 --> 00:15:21,979
Bye.

499
00:15:23,049 --> 00:15:25,909
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

500
00:15:26,070 --> 00:15:26,989
Brenna Hicks.

501
00:15:27,150 --> 00:15:29,109
For more episodes and resources,

502
00:15:29,229 --> 00:15:33,989
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.