Club 520 Films - Jeff Teague talks BUTLER RECRUITMENT & NIL with BUTLER Head Coach Ronald Nored

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Welcome back to another episode of five twenty fields. I'm
your host coach Lou. Before we introduce our guests, Man,
I'm gonna introduce my co host coach.
Move far less man. What's up? Get into it? Coach Jeff?
What's the word?
An excited man? We got a special Yes for sure.
Very served, guys.
I said, we got special guests to my left, newly
appointed head coach at Butler, Sir Coach Ron Nory, how
you doing, man? We appreciate you, good man. Appreciate you
having man. Appreciate you man. Before we start off, we
kind of started this podcast. We all guys who used
to hoop. We don't really hoop no more so we
coached either. So when when was that time that you
knew it was time to hang up the shoots? Last
summer was.
Yeah, I was.
I was in a little men's league last summer in Atlanta,
and you know, people started to pick me up full court.
Pressing. I started talking trash and yeah, all right, you know.
I still thinking I can do what I used to
I couldn't do a lot, but still think I can do.
You know what I used to be able to do.
I just couldn't.
So I was like, all right, it's time to hang
them up. It's time, it's time to be done. Get
the best of us, all of us. We usually start
to show off with the coaching spotlight.
So since you were our first, you know, college coach,
we want to spotlight you about your coaching career, how
you got into it first. I actually didn't know this
when you got done player, you were the head coach
at Brownsburg High School, My first job. How did that
come about? Yeah, I didn't know that either.
How it was Yeah, it's funny.
So the long story I try to give it to
you quickly, is so the Super Bowl was here in
Indye my senior year, and we were having this big
super Bowl party at my house and we were playing
Detroit at home. I got tripped and fell on the floor.
I smashed my face on the floor and broke my teeth. Wow,
and uh, you know yeah, like someboddy like they like
took my hands out. I was about to turn it over,
so I dove for the ball to try to get
the ball back and both my hands got caught. My
face went or just throw my teeth up. So we're
preparing for the super Bowl party. I couldn't eat anything
because I couldn't chew, you know, I could barely talk.
Well.
The next practice or a couple of practices later, you know,
it's just a normal practice or whatever. You know, did
my thing, and then before I went to the conference
tournament that year. The horizon of the conference tournament, Brad
was like, Hey, I want to talk to you when
you get back. So we get back from the tournament
and he's like, hey, the game, after the practice, after
you hurt your teeth. The superintendent, his name is Jim Snapper,
Brownsburg Schools, was at that practice.
Wow.
To see how you were interacting with the team, seeing
how you were going to act, all that stuff, see
if you know what people said about you was real.
And I got my job because he, the superintendent, showed
up to a random practice that I had no idea.
My teeth were all busted up, and so that was
a blessing. But it was a great experience. You know,
any in high school basketball is as good as it gets.
Coaches are unbelievable. We lost the Pike, by the way.
At Pike, the coaches were unbelievable.
And so to be able to have my first job
against some of these great coaches in this they you know,
really good players, d one players every single night.
Was it was a good way to start my career.
That's dope, man, that's no better do me for dudes,
you know, But I didn't know he coached at Brownsburg.
I said, I've been coaching high school basketball for eleven years.
It was probably I wasn't that Pike. Yet when we
beat you guys, I don't think we ever lost the browns.
Burglet's put that in there, but not yet, like.
You lost the Brownsberg. But it was going Hayward, I
was a freshman. Yeah he turned it.
Yeah, yeah, he definitely turned So after that Brownsburg that
start stint. Uh you transition into the G League? How
was that transition for you?
It was a great transition.
Uh. You know, I was there in Boston with Brad
and you know, he told me like, hey, you're going
to start in the G League, and so you know,
the two The kind of theme of my career is
I've been able to coach right from the jump. You know.
It was not like, uh, you know, a or video
coordinator things like that. So my first job, I was
a head coach. My second job, I was an assistant,
you know for a pro team, you know, and so
like it was just me being throwing the fire and
I you know, if I look back, I can't remember
every day from that year, but if I look back,
it looked at myself coaching I would probably you know,
think I was crazy and terrible coach. But I got
to experience it. I just got to do it, and
so to be able to do that to coach pros.
A lot of these guys at that time were just
older than me or my age, and so to be
able to you know, learn how to interact as a
coach with guys like that was It's something that helped
me even throughout my NBA career when I was coaching
the NBA, because that was every team I was a
part of.
How was it coaching guys that's the same age as you,
they can relate better to you, or they kind of
like bro were.
The same age, Like, how was it? Yeah?
I mean I figured it out, you know, I think
all of us know, just the relationship that you build
with guys is most important, you know. But I was
never a guy that was like, you know, hanging out
with the guy, you know. I always kept that coach
relationship for sure, that coach player relationship, you know, a
little separate, so that you know, when it came down
to it, you know, I could coach them.
But I think, you.
Know, we all know, like guys want to know you're
with them, but they also want to know you know
what you're talking about, you know, And so I think
just being a real dude you know them knowing what
you're talking about was something that allowed me to just
coach guys even though we're my age or older.
That's dope, man, that's dope. I guess from there, I mean,
you've been all over every level.
You move fast to like one year, stop trying to
slow down now, I'm not going.
To Yeah, but you transition into college. What's the biggest
difference from I guess the pros to the college level.
Now or when I when I coached with that first time.
Yeah, I was at Northern Kentucky University and we were
actually it was we couldn't go to the install of
a tournament that year. It was the last year at
their transition from D two to D one before you transition,
so we couldn't go to the tournament.
Man, there's a lot of differences.
I think the biggest one though, is the amount of
time you spend with the guys.
Yeah. You know, like you go on the road, you
have your.
Team dinner, you have team film, you have like you're
just together all the time in college or in the NBA.
You land and I tell people all the time, like
you know, when I'm in the when I'm in the hotel.
I never see players in the hotel in the NBA,
you know, I see them we get on the bus.
So I think that's the biggest difference.
It's like the amount of time you spend in that,
you know, just that time together is a lot different.
Yet then obviously from there you the head coach at
Long Island with the next organization, and then after you
transitioned that, you went to the Hornets.
How was that working with the Hornets? That was great.
I was originally like going to be behind the bench
coach with them, and was fortunate to get on the bench.
You know, I think I was like twenty six or
twenty seven at that time.
Man.
I know, I've been super blessed of my career with
the opportunities that I have had, and so, you know,
it was just the next step in the journey. You
know that I got to coach Kimba who beat us
in the National Championship game.
Yeah.
Yeah, And Jeremy Lamb was on that team, you know,
and so and Shelvin Mack ended up being on the team.
So it was Jay Lamb and Kimba, me and Shelvin
on the same team, and so like around the final
four they like, hey, let's do a let's do a
final four national championship. Like talking about but you know,
to coach a guy like Kimba, you know before he
got traded to Boston was man, kim was the best
dude ever. But to coach a guy at that level,
you know what he was doing, it was special. It
was forty you know, forty a night. You know, I'm
at six feet tall, you know, So No, that was
that was that was a great time.
No, I said, like Jeff mentioned, you're moving around, moving
up the ranks. You went to the Pacers and then
you finished your uh finished this last year with the Hawks.
Kind of talk about that Hawks group this year. I
know it was a little tough for you guys at
the beginning, but you guys finished strong. Can you talk
about how that year was?
This year? Special year? Special year?
Obviously we started our team to start the year was
a lot different than we ended. Yeah, you know, Trey
got hurt I think Game five at Brooklyn this.
Year, and really it was like, man, like, what what
are we going to look like?
You know, because Trey, Trey was so good and could
put us in any position at any time, and the
way the team came together, you know when he got hurt,
because we had to you know, like it wasn't just
like Trey's gonna get us out of touch spots, and
we had to come together and do that. And we
really were able to build something special. We want a
crazy run. And when he got hurt and then we
had a little rough pass. We had guys coming in
and out, you know, all year. Trey came back, you know,
Chris Stat was kind of in and out, and then
you know, the trade deadline happened, and then we had
we finally had the team. Yeah, and the almost exact
same thing happened again, you know, and we got the
great part.
We've got older, older guys. We got CJ. McCullum.
Uh, you know, we got Jack Landell like you know,
and so like to get these older guys that have
had the experience, they really helped the young group go
to the next level what we ended up seeing at
the end of the year. So I learned a lot
that year this year, and it was it was really
a special group.
What do you think, you know, we talked about the
Hawks a lot because Jeff, what do you think is
a piece they can get out of the draft that
can take them to that next level.
Man, that's a great question.
I haven't thought about the Hawks a lot since I
left a half months ago, so I don't know exactly
what's happening down there, you know, obviously, Like I think
it would be good to get a young point guard,
you know, somebody that's just like you know, just they
can play pick and roll, make every pass, make every read,
be a great defender. You know, there's a lot obviously, CJ.
We played Dice in a lie at the point guard
in Dison. I mean, Dyson is unbelievable. But just to
have that young point guard that you can just give
the ball to. He can play picking and roll, you know,
continue to get bigs that can support you know, oh
big old down there, I think will help too. Obviously
you got Dison and you got Jalen. You know, these
guys gotten to kill. Like you know, the the Wings
are pretty locked in. But you know, I think to
have maybe a point guard in the big that can
continue to beef up the team would be helpful.
You can always use a point guard to be always.
I wanted to talk to you about your I know
you're gonna be a great coach. You've been a great coach.
You've been doing your thing in the coaching world. But
I know you from playing basketball. I remember you at Butler.
I know about your career, how you committed to Western Kentucky,
things like that. Yeah, I wanted to ask you about
your playing career.
So what was it like.
I know you was in high school, you're under recruited,
but getting a Butler and having the moment in the
runs that you had a Butler back to back final
fours and things like that.
What was that experience like life changing for me?
Yeah, because you know, I was not like I was
recruited a lot, but it was all men majors, you know.
So it wasn't like I wasn't ranked. I wasn't a
four star, five star.
You know.
I was a good So I was a good high
school player, you know, but coming to college, I was
just a good, solid player.
So to be in that environment on am I'm from a.
Small town in Birmingham, Alabama, you know where we do
football down there.
So to come to Indiana and now I do have
a lot of family here.
I grew up coming up here to Indy, so I
knew about it, but to be in that environment and
we're pretty good.
My freshman year, my sophomore year we go to the
national championship game. My junior year, we do it again.
And just the amount of love.
That the city showed us, that the country showed us,
I mean, to this day, even before I was a
head coach of Butler, to this day, the amount of
people that like still remember that and we'd be like, yo,
they mean, I remember my nigh, but they're like, you
look familiar for some reason, you know what I mean?
That for me coming from like where I came from,
is like that I did not expect that to happen
at all, to ever be that person, you know. So,
and it was a special team. It's a special group
of dudes that were still close. You know, we're all
still close, and so yeah, man, it was life changing.
And when you got the job, I'm sure since you
all y'all are close to what was that like when
everybody found out you were getting the job? What was
that text like in a group check?
Yeah, I mean I think everybody was pretty excited, you know,
you know, just trying to we all remember, you know,
the years we were talking about when when I played here,
when we played here, and so to try to take
what that was and to try to recreate that at
this day and age now, it's hard.
It's different, you know.
I think we talk about it all the time, me
and a couple of guys like I think, if you know,
our team at that time, our Horizon League team would
have done, you know what, would it don't would do
what we had did. Then we probably all would have left.
We would have had to, you know what I mean.
It would have been good to stay together, but it
would have been it would have been hard, and you know,
so to try to recreate that and this time is
it's a challenge. But you know, fortunately for me, you know,
I've coached the G League where the teams come in
and out, you know, NBA where there's trade deadline and
things like that where you're having to put a team together.
And so I think just from that standpoint, those experiences
and just coming back and trying to bring those back,
I think everybody was pretty excited about it.
Sure do what was it like, obviously you played with
a couple of NBA players. What was it like We're
being around Shelvy and Gordon around those times, did you
know being that they would be future NBA players.
I mean, you knew, you knew Gordon pretty early, you know,
to be his side six eight sixty nine, to be
able to dribble, pass and shoot, post guys up, make threes,
make midies, finish at the rim, athletic defensively.
He had all the tools.
You know, he just needed to grow a little bit
to you know, to his body and all that.
You know.
But we were at we played Georgetown and Massion Square
Garden in the middle of my sophomore year and it
was like, all right, this dude is yeah, is for real?
And then we played Steph at Davidson Uh, you know,
one of those years too, and he went crazy. It
was like, all right, you put these two together. And
then we make the run where it's just like every night,
every tournament game he's leading us, like you're like, all right,
you know, he's probably gone.
And then same thing with Sheldon.
It took Shelving a little bit longer, but nobody can
stop Shelving, and you just knew it was a different level.
You know.
Obviously we're playing the Horizon League, so we're not playing
NBA players every night.
There was some nights we did but then.
When we get to the tournament and we're constantly, you know,
consistently seeing high level teams and Shelbon is still tearing
them up. It was like, you know, like, all right,
you can come back our senior year, but you should
just go all right.
My boy man all that shit.
Yeah, man, what was funny about Gordon is that I
know we're a couple of years older than him. I
really didn't hear too much about him. He wasn't as tall. Yeah,
he was known for playing too, for sure. Yeah, that's
what I'm like. It's crazy to see that a person
can grow and then as tennis being their first work
and being become are all start in the NBA.
Yeah, No, I always say, I mean obviously Jeff playing
in the NBA, like being around the NBA for that long, Like,
these dudes are just special and you know a lot
of us try to say we want to get there
or try to get there, but there's a god given
ability that's given.
City, right.
I would say all these guys, you know, like even
the guys you're like, yo, I could be him more
than likely you can't, yea. These guys are you know,
and even like the longevity of careers. That is like,
I can't keep playing I shut it, I can't keep
the long. The ability for these guys athletically to be
able to keep playing long at the highest level for
so long, that is god getting out. They're getting their
bodies worked on all that stuff. But still this is
a grind that these guys go through every single night
for eighty two games. You know, like that is just
guy given the ability. So like, you know, Gordon was
fortunate that he had to grow spurt. You know, if
he stayed six feet like he was as a freshman
in high school, he's not an NBA player. He goes
to six eight and he's got all those guard skills
and tools like that guy.
Get you know, yeah, for sure, that's definitely what.
Was Brad like during his time.
What made him kind of like a special coach where
you look like this guy is different than the other coach.
Man.
It was hard for me at that time because he
was my only you know, I had a great high
school coach who was actually from Indiana for Fort Wayne, uh,
but Brad was my only like college coach.
You know, He's the only yea, So I didn't I.
Couldn't see what was happening, but I could get some
feedback from you know, my guys that were playing other places.
But everything was efficient, and everything was about only the
most important thing, you know, Like there was never.
Any waste in motion with Brad. And what I think
that allowed him to do was be organized.
And so you know, at that time, people weren't really
talking about college coaches drawing up atos, right, you know,
and Brad was like drawn up unbelievable.
We came out of the time out.
We all knew it was a bucket or at least
a great shot, and so you know, but that that
came from him just being organized and not focusing on
all these other things that we can start to focus
on his coaches, Brad was always just process oriented and
to me, that separated him, you know, and he just
had a gift for just seeing the game. You know,
he always knew what he was looking at, you know,
he knew what he was paying attention to.
Oh, I know both you got Jeff, you play for
him with the Celtics. I mean I was on the team.
Do y'all think we'll ever see him on the sideline again?
No, no way. Why Why do you why do you
think he good at what he's doing now. Unbelievable, it's working.
That's crazy.
He got out of, you know, how to put teams together,
and then I think he like enjoys not having that
same pressure on the sidelines.
I think, I mean, it's still a pressure to build
a team.
I think it's a lot less pressure than every day
grind when it comes to preparing the team for a game.
I don't think he want because my last year was
his last year. Yeah, and I remember him pulling me
in the office and saying like like kind of like
alluding to like, yeah, I'm done.
Like what year was that again?
This is twenty twenty one one?
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
It's kind of like he was cooked kind of.
And then he went upstairs right after that, so I knew, like, yeah,
he was done.
Like what he said to me was like he was
just doing that. I've never seen.
Brad like that.
Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, probably because the
difference with college in the NBA, Like you know how
the NBA is you kind of in and out. Yeah,
like going on college is more secure. I mean it's
different now because in IL and so I could probably
see that. Bro, it's a lot going on up here.
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He's still a coach to me though, you know what
I mean, like to when he left coaching.
First of all, I saw the tweet and I thought,
you know when he was when he made the transition.
I thought he was going to coach in GM. I
was like cool.
But then somebody text me and I read the tweet
again and it was like, no, he's just gonna be
the GM And I'm like, there's no way. He did
that early too, yeah, And I'm like, so in my mind,
he's still a coach. So I hope he coaches one day.
I mean, I know he'd be great at it.
But like when I you was throwing him att crazy
and he was like I text him, I was like,
who's like that playing around here?
Like no way, just row back, no way.
It's like every crazy, like big time college job that
comes around the always throw his name around.
Carolina this year, Yes, we played Carolina this year. I
was like, please take the job. That's why I can
coach get you. So let's talk about you being at
Butler upcoming. How do you plan to bring Butler back
to what it was when you was playing? Not saying
you can get to the national championship, but bring it
in the Big East, making it one of the top
teams in the Big East.
Yeah.
I think the thing that has made Butler good for
a long time is like Butler has known any coach
has been a lot of great coaches at Butler, but
we've known who we are and we've known who we're not,
you know, And so I think to just be really
clear with our staff and our team about who we
are and who we need to be to be successful
is the most important thing. We don't have to get
outside of any lane or try to do what anybody
else is doing. Let's just be the best version of
us and focus on what's going to make us successful.
And to me, that's just being a great connected team,
that's being super competitive every night, and that's being the.
Most prepared team.
I think if we can do those three things, then
we'll put ourselves in position to get back to being
the team in the program that we all know.
Butther is a right sure.
When you're recruiting a lot of these kids, because I
know a lot of kids watch us.
What's some of the things that you're looking.
At when you're evaluating them and trying to see who
you want to bring to your program.
Number One, we're looking like our guys humble, And that's
not like I'm not that good. That's just like, you
know what, I can always get better, right right, Like
I am what I am now, But I'm going to
be in the gym because i know there's work to
do and I'm gonna always get better.
So that's that's number one. Number two is like are
you tough?
Like?
Are you mentally tough? Can you get through difficult things?
You know, the Big East is tough, a college season
is tough. Can you get through that? Are you physically
tough enough, you know to actually handle the physicality of
the season. Can you compete every single every single drill,
every single rep, every single possession you know, and for
us too. The last thing is like can you can
you be a great teammate? Like we give you a role?
Can you play accept that role and play that role?
You know?
If we can find guys that do those four things,
we feel like we have the right kind of guys
in the building.
No effects, definitely I wanted to talk about.
Obviously, I'm a high school coach, so high school recruiting
is very tough now because of the transfer portal. Being
at Butler and obviously being in Indiana, where's a lot
of high school players, I got a lot of talent.
Will y'all be in the high school ranks? Looking to
recruit a lot of high school players? Or will you guys?
I mean, obviously you're going to be in the portal.
That's just the smart thing to do too. But how often,
I mean, how many high school players would I look
at a year?
You know, Yeah, we're definitely going to be recruiting high
school players. I think, you know number one. I think
just that ability to you know, get a young guy
and allow them to grow in the program.
I think it's still a recipe for success.
I think it's hard to sustain success when you're just transition,
like you're getting a brand new team every single year.
So we got to recruit high school guys. We want
to recruit, you know, high school guys at a high level,
you know, and guys that can play. You know, it's
hard to recruit high school guys now that you want
to say, like, you know, we probably won't be able
to do red shirt anymore with what's happening with LA
to five in five years, but like to have a
high school guy that won't play he's just going to transfer,
you know. So we need high school guys that can
impact the game right now. Yeah, and so we're definitely
gonna be recruiting high school guys. Try to keep them
in our program the best we can. I think that's important.
So and that starts here in Indiana. Like it's there's
way too many players here in Indiana for us not
to have Indiana guys on our team. That's that's that's
important for us. So you know, it depends on what
our team looks like as far as the number, but
you know, there's a lead we're gonna e lade in
our recruiting. As we're talking to guys, We're at least
going to be five to seven deep at every position,
tracking guys you know, in every class.
Now that that could be more, that could be less
depending on where we.
Are and all that, but we need to have a
good list of high school guys that we were heavily recruiting.
Since you've been recruiting, have you heard anything like crazy
from a player that you're recruiting as far as like
request or in il Nothing, nothing crazy, But there's been
some bad agents, that's what up.
I mean, just like, yeah, you're just on the phone.
It's like, man, like you just see like you're on
the phone's agent and he's hurting the kid, you know
what I mean, Like that that is happening. You get
off the phone, You're like, man, you just wish you
could tell the kid like somebody else.
And so, you know, I feel bad for some of
the kids in that, but I haven't heard it. I'm sure.
I'm sure we will. We just went through one portal season.
We're starting the high school stuff, so I'm sure that
time will come.
Yeah, do you think is a good thing for college
right now? I do? I do. I do think that.
I do think that these players have value, you know,
as basketball players. I think where it is is getting
you know, it's getting difficult because the money is jumping
up so draftically so fast, you know, and so it's
just going to be interesting what happens, how people operate,
continue to operating this. But I do think that it's important,
you know, for for these young guys to be compensated,
you know, because they do have value as basketball players. Now,
what's hard for me coming from the NBA is that
there are players in the NBA that don't play, that
are NBA players that are making let's say, let's call it,
two million dollars a year that if they came to college,
would be significantly better than certain guys making way more
money than them, Except that that's at times that's hard
top your mind around, you know, But but I do think,
I do think that these guys should be compensated for sure.
Do you think the five year rule you think that's
helpin you know, guys transferring every year. That's kind of
I know, that's kind of crazy. You think that that
rule will helps out a lot.
I'm interested to see how how it goes, you know,
you know, also with like the legislation that's happening in
Congress and all just how all of it fits together.
I like the five and five because it just clears
things up for everybody. You know, like you come to school,
you got five years to play, Like not red shirt,
there's no waivers. Everybody is kind of in the same bucket,
And so I think that helps just from a as
you're building your team and planning out your team. Obviously
there's still gonna be guys that are transferring and stuff
like that, but I just think it clears up some
of the mess that's happening.
I hope they put the one free transfer rule in.
I think that'll save a lot. Yeah, like you have
to make you have to make a real decision at
some point, because I think that's what's kind of hurting
kids a little bit, that you have so many options
you don't have to go through any adversity.
For sure.
It's it's it's not real life when you when you
get a career and you have a job, you know,
it's hard to just leave your job with no consequence,
you know, And so you know, I think the I
think the transferring every year is definitely definitely a challenge,
and it's you know, you know, you know, making it
difficult when when these guys are done playing, if you
go to the NBA, you're not just leaving your team
when things go wrong though, you know what I mean. Now,
if you if you try to do that and you
you know, don't act right, it's going to be really
easy for teams to just cut you and just find
another player that can be in the NBA. So there's
some life habits that I think I agree with you, Jeff,
like that can that can help guys out that.
So being a coach Q Quinn.
That's my guy, that's my mind too, And he's offensively,
he's one of the most gifted coaches.
I've ever been around.
I mean, he had ideals when I was with him
with the Hawks that was just outlandish at times, right,
And then now to see how he wanted to coach
back then, and that was might be too. That I
was an eleven maybe or something like that, twelve and
the things that guys are running now he wanted to
run in twenty twelve, like all the Spain Acts and
all the five outs and all those things. And being
around him, well that play into any of your offensive philosophies.
Yeah, we had.
I mean Q and I have conversations daily, you know,
just like deep conversations about basketball and what about this,
and whether he would bring me in his office like hey,
I'm thinking about this.
What do you think? You know?
And so for me as a coach to listen to
watch him, like when I was before I was with Atlanta,
I would always watch Q's like in the gameplay was
watch Q's atos, you know, And so to be with
him the last three years and see that there's definitely
a lot of things just like screening angles, you know,
the way your big runs in and out of certain
pick and roll situations. You know, we will do a
lot of you know, we were a fast team the
last couple of years, one of the fastest teams in
the league the last couple of years. We'll still play
with that pace in some of the spacing and you know,
some of the decisions and and things that we did there.
Because you know, I think it's number one. I think
it's like I think it wins number two. I think
it's a fun way for players to play. It's just
an enjoyable way, Like you get better. There's a reason
that the last two years that Atlanta Hawks have had
the most improved player I think I think that may
be the first time ever like an organization is at
back to back most improved players. Dyson Daniels and Alexander Walker.
They are, they got better, they work, but the system
allowed them to play with the freedom that like allowed
them to take their games the next level. So to
be able to do that in college I think will
be really good for our players.
And they could have had three. I mean, Jalen Johnson
was probably in the run. Yeah, he's easily been up
there defensively coming into college, obviously it's you were defensive
mind player because I knew I wasn't gonna get on
the court.
So in college, what's your expectation on what came Butler
fans expect from your Butler teams.
Defensive well, we we got to be a defense team
first we have any chance on win, Like, it's not
going to be outscoring people, you know, we want to
be a tough, tough team and make it really tough
to get the ball into the paint.
You know.
Offensively, we're trying to get the ball into the paint
as much as possible, get to the rim, you know,
get get get some threes, kickout threes and stuff like that.
So if we're doing that offensively, that's what we want.
We got to make sure we stop that defensively, keep
teams out of the paint, keep teams, you know, from
being able to get in there, and then just making
contesting and making every single shot difficult and then you
got to rebound.
Like it's it's really, at.
The end of the day, that simple, you know from
a philosophy from a philosophy standpoint, but the way that
we do it, like with the presence that we want.
We want to be like a tough, nasty, defensive team.
That's just the way that I identify I see the game.
And so you know, when we're recruiting, we're trying to
find guys that fit that. It's hard. The other thing
I learned the NBA. It's hard to take a guy
that doesn't do that, doesn't play that way, and then
try to get him to play that way. You know,
It's difficult. So we're trying to identify those guys in
recruiting so that when they get the canvas, we just
say I always say, and I heard somebody say, and
I use it now. Uh, Lion cubs become lions, and
zebras don't become lions. So we're just trying to find
lion cubs that we can just develop in the line,
you know. And so I think, I think, big picture,
that's how we want to play defense, for for sure.
And I think it's it's misconscrewed a lot of times
with these high school kids. When you guys, they see
coaches on the sideline, they think you guys are looking
for forty points scorn scoring, scoring, scoring, scoring out, And
that's not really really realistic. I know, uh, Jeff tails
our high school team a lot of times. When you're
in high school and you go to college, he already
got somebody there that's gonna get you eighteen to twenty.
You're not getting on the out definitely in the NBA,
and you're not sure for sure. So I just want kids,
I know. We deal with a lot that playing hard
as a skill.
Now. It used to be that way a long time
ago because kids just don't play hard. But playing hard
gets you on the floor, keeps you on the floor.
My life has been changed from playing hard like just
playing and simple like I was not a great shooter,
didn't score a lot. You know, I could pass. I
still think I'm one of the best passers out there,
you know. But but it was about playing hard. We
got this list my freshman year when I got to Butler,
and we just showed our team the other day and
it said talent not required at the top right, and
then it listed like maybe like twenty things, maybe more
than that. It was like, you know, your communication, you're
poised eating right, you know, connecting with your teammates, diving
on the four for a loose ball, like like all
these different things that you can control. Right, And so
when I saw that, I was like, I got a chance.
You know, I didn't say aged forty. I saw that,
I'd be like, yeah, I don't have a chance. But
coaches are looking for that, like coaches are looking for
that talent not required list, because we can see, we know,
like if a guy can score forty or if he's
gonna have the chance to score forty, be a big
time score, you know. And so we're really trying to
find And this is what I try to tell people,
even about the NBA.
Everybody wants to be you know.
They named the best player in the NBA, Kevin Durant,
Steph Curry, you know Kyrie.
These guys that are high level NBA.
Players, NRIs Halliburton, good look and good luck. Like those
dudes have been those dudes their whole life, whole line. Right,
There's a lot of people in the NBA. Most people,
let's call it ninety percent of NBA players are really
good role players. For sure, they do one or two
or three things that are elite.
You know. Now, the best do it all, elite.
Lebron does everything at an elite level, right, So, like,
do do something that's going.
To get you on the floor.
That's what I realize as a player, Like, what's gonna
get me on the floor is I'm going to play hard,
harder than everybody else. So you know, I would say
that any high school player, like, if you already are
the guy that's getting thirty in a game, like more
than likely, that's probably gonna be a role. If that's
not your it's cool. There's a spot for you, right,
there's a million spots for you. You know, you just
got to make sure that the coaches see that you
add value.
To the team. Right. Oh man, I know.
I remember Jeff you calling me in college telling me
like theseus all my moves?
Man, Oh yeah, they got They watched film. They watch.
If the coach is calling across over the left and right,
he's calling the left and right.
And you told me, how did you have to get
on the floor.
Yeah, you gotta play. I had to play defense. I
started watching film. My coach told me they're watching film
on you. They know what you're gonna do. I was
only playing like five minutes. I started watching film. But
I had to start guarding. So I started picking up
full court and I was a guy who averaged twenty
five in high school. So I'm thinking, I'm gonna go
there and do the same thing. And it wasn't that,
it wasn't reality or I had to learn to do something.
I had to figure out something else. And once I
figured that out, I was able to show what I
can actually do it really well because I was able
to get on the floor by playing defense, and then
I got a little longer lead. Yeah, now I can
shoot a couple of threes, and you know, a couple
of threes turned into a little more.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, but people, but even all the NBA people that
are evaluating you, they're watching, they're watching all that. If
you were just out there just trying to score, like
you're gonna like they have enough people that can score,
especially for a rookie.
You know, so you were. I was a scout before.
So like our scouting meetings. I don't know if you
ever been in a scouting meeting.
I've been to maybe one or two.
They're the worst meeting, but they're so boring. I've enjoyed coaching,
so I've been to a scouting meeting. So I try
to tell the kids at our school or kids that
I know, like about the scouting, like what they look
for and the things that they're I'm like, they're watching
you on the bench, just looking at your face and
see how you react to your teammates and things like that.
And as a college coach now and you being a
head coach, and like you said, you look for a
guy who has good leadership skills and all those things.
Do you sit and watch a kid when he comes
out the game?
Yeah, I watch. I watch everything.
I just sent a video of a kid recruiting.
I sent it to him and it was him after
the whistle.
So I'm watching watching film with him from some eybl
stuff and after the whistle I see him going like
this telling his team to come over. And I sent
that to him. I was like, this is why we
love you. I know, like you play hard, you do
all that other stuff. But what's separating you from like
the other guy over there is that you're bringing.
Your team together at the time that you guys need
to come together, you know.
And so you know, we're as a coaching staff, we're
talking about all those little things, and we're talking about
like after uh, you know, the ref you know, blows
a bad whistle or whatever, something happens with the coach,
Like you're a guy that does this, We're literally watching
what do your hands look like? Or you move on
to the next thing. So those little details all that's
being watched. Will a kid's.
Family be able to interfere with his recruiting one hundred percent?
A lot of them don't seem to realize.
Yeah, no, no, one hundred percent, Like we're not just
recruiting the kid, We're recruiting the family too, you know.
And I know for us, not every player is gonna
fit at Butler. That that's cool. We want guys that
want to be at Butler. But really for any program anywhere,
Like it's so important that you know, uh, that the
coaches understand like what's happening in the whole situation, because
we we all know, like a lot of us are
most of us are product of our environment in some way, right,
the nature and nurture.
You know, there's a lot of people that have overcome
some difficult environments.
But you know, if I'm if I'm talking to a
kid and the environment around him just is not does
not fit us.
We don't have time to.
Waste, like we're we're moving right on, said yeah, that's
that was very very needed, honestly, need to know. And
we're dealing at the high school level where every parent
it's been there before, and I tell them like, do
y'all know who coaches are?
Like the no doubt?
Why don't you take that into account? So I'm glad
that you said that. It's a big East Head coach.
You know, we don't get Yeah, everybody want to get
hard for Yeah, it's where we are with So I'm
glad Butler got you. Butler's in good hands.
Man, that thank you. Definitely in good hands. Thank you. Uh,
as we transition, you've been watching did you watch the
game in one of the finals?
I watched the end of the game. You watched the
Dame watched the last like five minutes of the game.
Who you got winning the finals? Actually, man, that's a
great question. I had not paid that much attention.
Honestly. Uh, it's hard to It's hard to go against
what New York is doing right now. Like I mean
when with the Hawks, obviously game was it game six
this year?
Was there?
Yeah, we talk about that.
That was tough, but we went up to New York
and beat them by thirty this year, you know, and
so like we knew those guys inside it out.
It didn't end that way.
But we played San Antonio and we had no chance
twice no chance. And so you know, coming to the series,
I'm like, san Antonio is just they have everything they do.
They got defense, they got the guards, they got windy.
I mean, this guy's generational, you know, the greatest ever
saying that's what Marcus called the greatest. All right, that's
what I don't know if I should putting this whole
thing out there, but you know, we have a lot
of in the NBA.
We have a lot of debates and stuff on the
RUSS coaches. For sure.
I don't know it's gonna give me in trouble. But
I said, if if Winby stays healthy, thank you. I
think he could be. I like where this is going.
I'm not saying he will be. I think he could
be the best player to ever touch the basketball.
He has a chance.
He got a chance. But Lebron James, it is crazy.
We have never seen You've never seen this a dude
walk up like the amount of times I've seen Winby
dribble the ball up wave dude like guards coming said
to pick a roll out of the way.
They should have walked up three.
It is insane, Like they don't look real sometimes.
Come on, man, like this guy is generational.
But you know, like so I'm watching, I'm like, you know,
I think Santo, but New York just it's just been
every game they just they're just not everybody.
They just figure it out.
Yeah, like you said, you just coached against Jaylen Bronson.
I'm a huge Jalen Brunston fan, played for his dad
in Minnesota and we always talk about JB. And know,
you just went against him in a playoff series. I
don't know if you might have film on anymore whatever.
I just wanted to know, like, obviously he's a tough cover,
but what was your philosophy against him? Like, what were
y'all thinking in the pick and roll situations?
Well, we had Dyson Daniels.
The benefits of our team is that we had Dyson
Daniels and we put him on the best player on
every team. Uh, you know, I think him and Brunton
ended up having a little thing where, you know, sometimes
Dyson got brunting, sometimes Brunton got dicing. But you know,
the big game plan was trying to keep Dicon on
brunting as much as possible, because that's just we We
just don't want to. You know, everybody's game playing against Dyson.
It's just trying to get Dicon off of them. The
best player, you know, so, but it comes down to
it at times, you got to put two guys on him.
You gotta trap them. You gotta make it tough, like
you gotta if he's going to an iso, like, you
just got to go get them because you know that
shot he made.
And the fourth this is unguardable. Yeah, crazy, what do
you think?
And you know he's six feet tall, like he's six
to one, and he's doing that like he's he's a
tough cover.
Take his hand after that?
Did y'all forcing right? What was it?
No, I'm trying to remember. No, I don't think we
forced him them anyway. Yeah, yeah, I mean they were
playing again Dyson. You let Dyson do diceon. You know,
it's hard to be like, hey Dyson, like like Dyson,
you just do do you make it tough.
But you know, if anybody else was guarding that wasn't Dicon.
You know, kill and the kill is a great defender
as well as the Hill is kind of exception, but
anybody else besides those two.
Was like we probably just gotta double. I want to
ask you questions, Like you said that about dogs on
the defensive man, you were a really really good defender,
especially the on ball defender. You have it like swir
Thompson is my favorite defender, and you just talked about
Dyson Daniels.
I want to know, like what's like dice being around Dyson?
What's his mold? Like, like how does he get into that?
Like that mode would be one of those defenders because
usually naturally, I'm not a defender, and I can't imagine
getting in the mold where I'm like, yeah, I'm about
to just go out here and guard the best player
and be excited about it. Like being around him, do
you know, like what kind of molde he got into?
Well, Dyson, Dyson's one of the quietest guys out there,
doesn't say much, but he is a killer. Like he
is just wired differently, you know, so I don't even
think he has to put himself like he's just wired
to do that, you know. And he's got he's six seven,
six eight whatever he is, but can move his feet
like he can he can six eight, he can guard Brunson.
So he's got the size but also the ability to
move his feet and then he's the best getting his
hand on the ball that I think I've ever seen,
Like dudes feel so comfortable when to get by him,
and of a sudden he's shooting a lay up on
the other end.
Right, what do you have three steals the year before
or something like that?
It was I think it was like it was it
was close, but it was like the most steals per
game or the most total stills in.
Like forty years. Yeah, that's I'm crazy.
Do you want all like you talked about Gordon Hayward
being skilled and can do past dribble shoot at that
size like your four men, your five men? Are you
looking for a love threat skilled players or yeah?
I think with the way we want to play offensively, definitely,
like with the four men to have skill, we want
shooting as much shooting as possible, sure, but we want
shooting without you know, uh, we don't want the guy
to be like a bad defender, you know, and so
you still got to be able to defend first, but
we want we want guys that can make shots and
we can ultimately get a you know, a guy that
can make a center that can make shots and you know,
block shots essentially will take that. Now, you can't always
get that, you know, So then we have to look at.
All, right, the impact that they have on the game.
If it's a guy that's so elite, you know, rem roling,
we're gonna pay a lot picking a roll, rim rolling
and protecting the rim. Then you know, if he can't shoot,
then he can still impact the game, you know. But
ideally we would take a guy that can that can
stand out there and make some shots, because it pulls
the big away from the rim. Yeah, you know, and
so if we can do that, that's what we're looking for.
But we're gonna do whatever we can to just make
the make the make the team fit.
When you when you start in your team, what's the
first thing you want to recruit, like a point guard
or a big What's what you think you need to
start with.
Man, that's a good question.
It's really hard to play the game in college basketball
out of point guard without multiple point guards, you know,
just with the pressure, you know, the actual pressure on
the ball, but also the pressure in the building, you know,
and just like the level that it rises, like every
possession matters, you know, to not have somebody that can
like have poison.
Cell to your team, it's hard to operate, you know.
So I think I think it probably starts with the
point guard, you know, but you also got to have
somebody that you can give the ball to and they can.
Just go get you on, get you. You know.
I've never met a great coach that hasn't had that,
you know, like all good coaches have really good players
for sure.
When you recruit a point guard, obviously are you are
a point guard? What are you looking for? Just what's
the ultimate point guard for you?
Yeah, I told our staff, don't recruit a point guard
like me, Like he is not good enough.
He is not good enough.
So but I do think it starts defensive, like we
want somebody that can heal the ball, like if we're
gonna be a defensive team.
It's kind of what I go back to.
It's hard to like get a point guard who's not
a defender and then try to make them one, Like
we need a guy who's gonna come, you know, be
a defender.
First. It always starts there for us.
But then we always look at their decision making, you know,
and so you know, when I'm out, you know, watching
on film or if I'm out, you know, watching AAU
or high school games, whatever, I'm watching every decision that
the guy makes, all right, he comes off of pick
and roll, you know, is he a guy pulls in,
is he able to just make that simple pass right there?
Or does he over dribble trying to find somebody to
hit if he drives like you see. You know, one
thing I noticed, you know, I haven't been watching high
school basketball a lot, but in my first you know,
evaluation period a couple of weeks ago, the amount of
guys that hit the ground. Yeah, Like, one thing I'm
watching now is like guys that don't fall down. Because
guys that don't fall down, guys that don't fall down.
That means they're under control, you know what I mean.
Guys that are just going in there.
I saw so many guys going to the paint try
to jump in the air and make something happen. I
don't want you to jump in the air and make
something happen and somebody if you got to do that,
that means the teammates wide on the corner passing to him.
You know, so I'm watching all those decisions, and so
somebody that's tough defensively that can make the decision.
And then we want point guards that can shoot threes
off the dribble.
If you can shoot threes off the dribble, that means
when we play pick and roll, they have to go
over you know. Now, if I'm out there, they're going
under every it's hard to make something happen. So we
want guys that can shoot off the dribble because that
opens up everything for everybody.
Else for sure. For sure.
Yeah, man, I said, it's it's crazy to see that
you're at Butler. We're talking about here, all this stuff
right now, and it's just happier for you to be here.
Man, appreciate it. It's blessing. Man, this is ah. I
love Butler.
Like I said, Butler changed my life, and so to
be able to give back to what was given to me.
It's something I'm excited to do.
I'm excited for the new run for Butler man.
Like like I said, I scouted Butler for a while.
When I was scouting, I had that was my range.
So I had to go to Butler a lot of
the Big East games. So to see Butler have some
fresh blood in there and some excitement. Not to say
the guys before that didn't do a good job, but
I just know you come from that NBA background and
that gives a lot of kids excited.
Like I think that was cool for me in high school.
We had a lot of guys who wanted to come
to the high school and play because of that NBA background,
they can get that love. So for you to be
able to coach some of these great players, like you
just talked about the Trey Young, Jalen Johnson, and Dyson
Daniels to be Kimball Walker and the names goes on
and you can come there and tell them yeah, and
even for like a recruiting picture, Hey Kimball, I got
a point guard, right, yeah, exactly.
That's crazy.
Yeah, I mean even being in the city like I
work with Tyres you know here when I was with
the Pacers, and so to be able to like have
those experience, you know, when I was in Charlotte, you know,
Kimba and then it was Lamello. We drive to Lamelos
his rookie year. So you know, I listen, if you
if you're a point guard and you want to improve,
like you need to come play a bubble. Yeah, that
that just is what it is. Like you're gonna be
put in a great position.
You know.
You talk to Kimba, you talk to LaMelo, you talk
to Trey, you talk to Tyree.
Talk to me.
That's all.
You know what I mean as well, So you know
I think. But it's it's also the same for the
other players.
You know, we want there's a level of development that
takes place in the NBA on a day to day
basis that just doesn't happen anywhere else, you know, and
so to be able to be with a coach that
that has developed NBA players, you know, like you're you're
gonna come in a situation and have NBA level development.
You know, maybe you end up playing in Europe, you know,
maybe don't end up playing the NBA, but you're still
gonna be able to see your progress that you make.
So that's that's that's that's part of our pitch for sure.
I watched you work out young Get twelve at night
I was there Oklahoma.
That was the lady that was a late night.
I was like, yo, he puts it in a work
because there's no way I'm eating a pizza Zrigga Gator.
Right. He was there.
He's down there putting the work with Trey Young at
twelve in the morning.
I was like, yeah, the dedication is real.
Yeah, that's a relationship too, though, you know what I mean.
Like again, like you, it's hard to survive as a
coach in the NBA if you're not a real dude.
You know, like if anybody was fake to you as
a player, you'd be like yeah, yeah, you know. So
like to be able to have those relationships, like you
got to put the time in, you put the work
in with the players.
Like that's what we're doing that Butler, same.
Thing, man, shout out to you, bro. We appreciate you.
I appreciate man. Butler, I got a good one. You
got a good one you. We'll take some bike players too.
Now. Thatt's like, just keep it real.
Yeah, you know, you know my pictures.
It's definitely yeah, man. Like I said, we all appreciate
you for coming in. Man, our first college coach on
five to twenty films. It's never gonna forget it. We
appreciate you. Good luck to you the same. You appreciate you,
I said again, y'all check in with us on Patreon.
That's another episode of five to twenty film the volume