Diggs Gets the Bag; Status of the Saints with Katherine Terrell

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Speaker 1: Starts radio and as hard as the kid turning it on the trial meet how are you today? I wanted you to have a part two? No, I just go Hey Dog, Welcome from the Chris Westling podcast Studio, not the Mike frances Is studio. They name that studio after Danny Queen's I like our name better. From the Chris Westling podcast studio. It's around the NFL and yes me Dan, This him Mark Sessler. The two man show, Allah, Mike and Chris on w f a M, New York, the station that as we've said on this show, and we've had Chris on the show many times, and mad Dog, we're not here without uh those gentlemen and their show and the fan itself. So uh great, Uh do a two man show? Missing Greg, but he's on a well earned vacation, so we're gonna hit this Thursday show hard. Greg had a tweet about what thirty forty minutes ago at this point um of the ocean of water, and he simply wrote, what was it? Erica peace for seven seconds? Yeah, he wrote seven seconds of peace? What's that about? Because that's not that's a little out of doctor. It suggests that he's not been in a peaceful situation for the remainder. And it was a it was an Instagram story and it was a photo of video of just the waves softly in the distance, and there was a nice little you know, these walking paths on the beach that are very quintessential Martha's vineyard. And I responded to it, don't do it. I think I know what it is. That's when God carried Greg. Yeah, the footsteps. No, I think I know why he's Oh, oh, actually now that, now that you say that, I think I think you know what what's causing him to be contemplative and open in that moment? Uh, Today's show him is a good Yeah again. Vacations are good. You're gonna be on one next week, That's correct. I'm the only one doesn't take a vacation, you know, I just keep going. You just went to Disneyland. I tried to sneak that one through legislation. I couldn't do it. It's so annoying every single day. Stay behind that glass and grind. Wait a second, don't even start, don't even start. Alright, today's show good one. We you know some of those timing things that happened sometimes that are annoying. We finish up our show on Monday, and we learn right after the show is over blockbuster trade between the Eagles and the Saints, and we're going to get the Saints side of that, uh with Katherine Tarrell of the Athletic what it means for them, A lot of speculation. But why don't we go to a trusted reporter down there and get her take on where New Orleans is in two thousand twenty two, because they're kind of a tough team to figure out right now they are, And I think the move itself was, you know, raised a lot of debate about why it happened, and uh, you know the fact that in real life we have talked to Catherine already. I can promise you should bring some answers. Okay, Well, I don't know. The other thing that's going on this week, Mark UM is the For the past two days, this building uh here in Los Angeles been swarming with current and former NFL players for the broadcast and media workshop, and we were asked to um lead the forum on how to build a successful podcast without trying uh. And I feel like it's been a very interesting two days. It's been a lot of work, but rewarding ultimately right the next time, UM, anyone in this company points at me and says not doing enough on the company man front. I would call the last two days UM, extreme service to the company. But I came out of this with no I came out of this with with a sense of gratitude too, because we got to hang out and talk with you know, thirty plus NFL players and I mean we're talking guys like Sherman, you know, all sorts of dudes, and uh, Larry Fitzgerald, I had an incredible time today. We got to do a little podcasts with them, uh test test podcasts, and they were great, and I think that we you know, we can't air any of them, but we got some great information out of them, some good background info. Yeah, Cam Hayward, that was incredible, Avery Williamson, Marlon Humphrey, Gerald McCoy, just some of the names, and Um. First of all, Gerald McCoy had takes. Yes, he thinks that Christian Bell is the worst Batman, which is very interesting, UM, but says The Dark Knight is the best Batman movie. So you guys break that down privately if you wish. The other thing that I thought was really interesting and it did be a little introspective mark because uh, you know, and and nostalgic because tragedy took Chris Westling from us. Greg's on vacation. It's just the two of us. And that's how our show started as the A t L Debate Club. And way back when, in February of two thousand and twelve, of the first guests that we ever had, it was a ten out of ten on the peace scale, was Richard Sherman sitting in this converted closet in the old Culver City's office that they had turned into a quote unquote podcast studio, and so it was just so interesting. For ten years later, almost to the month, here we are again, and now Sherman is basically a borderline Hall of Famer. We've come as far as we've come in this business. And we got to talk about that with Sherman. He remembered that interview and that I just thought that was like a full circle moment. That's gonna stick with me nobody. I don't know what happens with our future, but that was a nice little full circle moment. It was. I also would say we nailed the interview. Um we got incredible content out of him. Um, the room was silent, just breathless listening to that three person we've and he's great. He has his own podcast. I mean, he doesn't have a whole lot to learn when it comes to podcasting. He nailed it. And the other thing is like, I'll never forget when we had we were it's very new when we interviewed him way back when, and we had been charged with writing endless Richard Sherman post because that's when he was sort of becoming very loud, very famous, and he had come into that interview having read every Dan Hansas and Mark Sessler post and he's like, I've been reading your stuff and I got a little bit of an issue with both of you, and we thought this is gonna be tough. But he was great then, he was great today he was he was um and uh yeah, So that was really cool. And we are now going to spin forward as the draft is approaching here and before we get to Katherine Tarrell talking about St. Seagel's Let's Let's Hit the News. Martin Scorsese has nine Oscar nominations for directing, but his only win was for What I'm Gonna have to guess and say, eight mile? Does that make you feel better? I know you had a difficult on that show. Yeah. Now, now when you type in like dumbest weakest link contestant, this one comes to the top. For a while. I think I had that um but it justin actually found it and sent it to me before it started circulating on Twitter. Yeah, And I was like, he was like, does this make you feel better? And I go, no, it would make me feel better. Is not thinking about the like sixty dollars that I would have had every single day. I might trying not to, but you'll never get it out of your head totally. Can I just hear it one more time? Because I like the confidence in which he started eminem movie. Martin Scorsese has nine Oscar nominations for directing, but his only win was for what movie? I'm gonna have to guess and say eight miles. But he's like, you know, I think is it's The Departed? That's correct two thousand six, which is by far I don't not by far as worse, but like I would say, I would put that in like his bottom end of the top ten good Fellows didn't get it. Taxi driver and get the statue for a taxi driver. It's problematic. I like to depart it. But it was certainly not his, not Martin Scorsese's finest. Why is she pronouncing Marty scor cs I don't know. But you know what really hurts. It's one of those movies, one of those early two thousand's odds movies where the technology, cell phone technology hurts the movie because a big part of it is like Matt Damon and his fancy flip phone, like connecting with spoiler alerts abound with the Jack Nicholson character get letting him know that the you know, the drop is on, and all this other stuff going on, and you look at all I can think about, like stupid that phone is. Look how he has to hit the number one. You know, this is totally you know, it is on topic of what we're talking about now. But I guess they're doing this thing where if you go up to someone and I go, mark, pretend you're answering a phone. Anyone that's pretty much my thirty or older is going to do the pinky and the thumb put it to their ears. But kids under that, the like under twenty five, when you ask them to like pretend you're getting a phone call. They fake hold an iPhone. Kids don't don't do that, you know anymore, which is crazy. What else you got you were just talking about? That's an interesting fact. I think it's topical for what we were just discussing. Yes, let's talk. Let's let's talk a little bit about this trade mark. Not from the Saint side, because we're gonna get to that with Katherine, but I'd like to talk about it from the Eagle side because uh uh, they send uh number sixteen nineteen and to the Saints and they get back eighteen one on one to thirty seven and a first round pick in three and a second round pick in four. I think the general vibe uh and we'll get to it about the Saints that their position to really make a move this year and make a splash, who knows, maybe get a quarterback. The Eagles. I thought it was a slam dunk trade for them on a couple of levels. One because you get that Another, you still have two first round picks this year. Now you're gonna have two more in the future, especially when or another in the future. You don't know what's happening in New Orleans. It's a rookie head coach quarterback uncertainty that that first round pick in three that they're inheriting could be a lottery type pick. So I love that and it allows you to kick the can a little bit on Jalen Hurts and uh, make him move down the road and give him another give him a long runway here. You look at like the fact that they extended Howie Roseman and that one of the reasons they parted ways with Doug Peterson was a disconnect on wanting to take a more patient approach to the future. Coaches don't want to do that. They want to win now. And this situation tells me that Howie Roseman and Jeffrey Laurie Walt's arm in arm in the concept of a more patient build and they next year's quarterback class better than this year's. And you're right, you get you. It's cements Jalen Hurts as your starter for year two U or Nick Sirianni, which he deserves that. I think, let's see what they can do. They had a very interesting offense run heavy last year. Do you roll that back out? Do you try to grow him as a passer A little bit, but in general, like it's a one year audition because I think that one thing we know about Howie Roseman in terms of his UH fondness for trading for for big moves, that if they don't love Jalen Hurts, they've got the ammunition and the only team next year with two number ones already U, which is like they keep pushing that thing down the road a little bit. It's it's a good timing for a chance to change quarterbacks if you needed to, or trade for a veteran absolutely. Um. More updates on the UH class action lawsuit that originally started with Brian Flores. It's been amended now new allegations against the Cardinals, Titans, and Texans and some other big names joining Flora's side, former head coach Steve Wilkes, formerly of the Cardinals, and former NFL assistant coach Ray Horton, both black men, have joined that federal class action lawsuit filed earlier this year, alleging racial discrimination and hiring practices by the NFL and its member teams. UM. Now, if you don't remember the Steve Wilkes era in Arizona, that's because it was a blank in your you'll miss it. It was between Bruce Arians and Cliff Kingsbury. Wilkes was one and done. It does not happen often in the NFL. Does happen one and dones. But Steve Wilkes claims that he was hired as a bridge uh and it was not. He was never given a fair chance to make his way with that team. He also marks sites some issues in that building. Steve Kim, the general manager. He gets um arrested for a d U I leads to a suspension that carried throughout training camp UH and through a portion of the summer. And he said that hamstrung Steve Wilkes and his first you're on the job, and also that the general manager Kim, was working behind the scenes when he shouldn't have been on a David Johnson extension. So some malfeasance by the team. UH. Wilkes doesn't feel like he has a fair shot. And then Ray Horton says he believes he was a part of a sham interview with the Titans before they made Mike Malarkey their full time head coach, something that Malarkey himself acknowledged in a interview earlier. I want to read what Mike Malarkey said on this podcast interview in twenties, said that the Titans told me I was going to be the head coach in before they went through the Rooney rule, and so I sat there knowing I was the head coach in ten as they went through this fake hiring process. And you know, he's he has also expressed remorse for the fact that he didn't do anything about it, and that that, to me, of all this stuff, is the most trenching thing that happened, because look at that's a coach telling you that the team turned around and told him we're not taking the Rooney rule seriously on any level. And I think if you look at the Wilkes situation more bird's eye view, he's saying, uh, look, any coach, most coaches that are in year one have taken over a team with a lot of issues. That's why you have a new coach. And I do think it's fair to say that he was treated like a bridge coach, that he was put in a bad situation. When would you need your to be linked up with your general manager more than in year one when you're navigating a totally different type of job as head coach. Josh Rosen was the quarterback. It was a huge mess. The team had fallen off a cliff at the edge of the Bruce Arians experience, and they turned around a year later. Fall fascinated it with Cliff Kingsbury and Wilkes is gone. So it's like it was he given a fair shake. I mean, I I can point to the team's struggles that year, and but he can also then point to yes, what you're saying, especially with Come, I think in this in this situation time, and his suspension is a smoking gun that Come, by the way, still the general manager there, despite those off the field issues, and not only that hurt Wilkes. In his mind, Come wasn't even taking the suspension the way you should. He was breaking rules during that process. Just that you're getting when you peel back the layers of the onion, you see some of the dysfunction that's going on behind the scenes that were not privy to on the surface. It's it's been a cynical offseason in a lot of ways. And and when you see more and more examples, and I mean it's not just this year, it's every year that the Rooney rule, while a good idea in theory has been treated um in a disgraceful fashion by a lot of teams in different ways. And I mean there's all that you see it all the time that you know their lure going after big name coach X, who we all know about some guy, but then they cycle guys through for interviews, and I understand the feeling that, look at these interviews aren't being taken seriously. How do I really have a chance to win this job? In the Rooney rule is not just about getting experience as a head coach in the interview process. It's about opening doors for head coaches, and that's just not happening enough. Horton. Horton center a statement Thursday, he was devastated and humiliated when he learned that his interview with the Titans was a sham. He said, by joining this case, I am hoping to turn that experience into a positive and make lasting change and create true equal opportunity in the future. And then that, of course, you think about Brian Flores and his part of this case, this potentially landmark case with the humiliation he felt obviously when a guy that he looked up to UM in the business, Bill Belichick got caught up in that mistaken text when he learned that he was not an actual candidate for the Giants job. According according to Mr Flores, and I should say the Titans released a statement on this connected to Horton and that job situation. Uh, and that read. Our two thousand sixteen head coach search was a thoughtful and competitive process, fully in keeping with the NFL guidelines and our own organizational values. We conducted detailed in person interviews with four talented individuals, two of whom were diverse candidates. No decision was made, and no decision was communicated prior to the completion of all interviews. So somebody's lying, well, uh, and you can decide for yourself who That is what I would just say, With everything that we know about Mike Malarkey, why on earth would he go on a podcast and say that out of thin air? That's my question. I mean, I know who I side with. All right, let's move on back to football news. The Bills signed Stefon Diggs to a four year, one and four million dollar extension. This came after there was some internet percolation with Trayvon Diggs talking about would be great to play with his brother, Uh, come on to Dallas and the Bill say, wholla'll stop the clocks here. We are not letting this dude go anywhere. He's been such an important part to what they've done in the last two years. I mean, Josh Allen literally tweeted no at that, at the concept of that, And I think that's because when we look at Josh Allen's rise, it's so tied to Stefon Diggs and the Bills. To me, uh, this was about awareness because you look around the league. If you're Brandon Bean and it's Tyreek Hill, it's Deavante Adams. These wide receiver contracts are bowing up, and he's still had two years left on his deal. Digs. But they were like, let's do this now to a put to bed any sort of controversy here be and let no team in the league I think honestly has done a better job of team building from where the Bills were four years ago to now. I mean they are now a Super Bowl, a rich Super Bowl contender, and there's no way you let Josh Allen's side piece. They worked together so well, they love each other, you don't let him go. There's just no this can't be at Davantae Adams or Tyreek Hill situation. Uh, it's funny as part of this broadcast boot camp. Um oh, can I share one more thing about the boot camp? No, and it was it's connected to a I believe a former bill. So we did it. It was two groups of podcast host It was you and I and then we got some good help from Rachel Banetta from Benched with Banetta Marcus Grant from the NFL Fantasy Show and we're alternating back and forth. We had they had what they were calling they started setting up their mini pods. Was like a minute podcast with twenty guys, and we alterned it. They started Rachel started calling it, well, welcome back to the chop Shop. Well it was Marcus came up with the name, but that's what they were calling you. And then we said we started saying chop shot. And then Rachel started giving us a little attitude. She was annoyed, you can't take our subpods name. So what do we do? Yeah, we came up with a you know, we work shopped at during a fifteen minute break when we weren't and we came up with chop Stop chop Stop, which which actually you know that this was probably mid midway through the journey of these pods. You know, there's a bunch of people in the room listening to our work and their work and Chop Stop um the que rating on it. I mean, it just started to take off. And I think that the chop Stopped came salad brand like it's a store. It's a like a fast food. Shot doesn't help us, but well they the players. I mean it just it created a free flowing kind of raw, dangerous energy in the room with the players. They enjoyed it. And then I know, I know, because you're a big preparation guy. We're getting close to when we had our Catherine interview and there was one more to hit, and I said, let stay back Rachel to get going. So with just Marcus and I, you know, we did. I don't know. We had a great sit down with future Hall of Famer Tory Holt, and we hosted the Chop Chop Stop. But what is cake? Because so what did Tory Holt without any concept that this was this dueling Banjo's thing, What is his response to that being the name of the general confusion? Um? But what I was gonna say was somehow when it came to a man walks in introduces himself, It's gyro It's Jarrett Gyrott. What is it? Ricky Ji Rouse Bird Jirouse, Brouse tired is in this conference room with us, and we'd it's not a chop stop interview. It's a chop shop interview and not a chop shop stop interview. And I just feel like we should have had ji Rouse Bird Rouse anyone, any podcasters in the world should have Grouse Biredjirouse. That was um. You know, there are a lot of corporos involved here, and they did a wonderful job. I really admire the word the corpos. Yeah, I really admired them. But they this was maybe a misstep on their party. They there's a lack of awareness, you know, unlike Brandon being a lack of awareness here. But now circling back to my overall point, as we talked about Stefan Diggs, we talked to a lot of cornerbacks, a lot of guys that have had a lot of success in our league, and uh, the wide receivers are happy that these running back, these wide receivers are getting paid like quarterbacks almost now. And the cornerbacks are justifiably like, what's going on here? Why is J. C. Jackson getting you know, fifteen million guaranteed and this the wide receivers are getting twenty four? What's up with that? They? The J. C. Jackson thing came up probably seven or eight times. Yeah, anyway, Stefon Diggs, that's good though. I mean you they are so locked and loaded. The time is now, um, And just so you know where this all fits in as the dust settles, UH, in this wide receiver derby for the Superstars, Tyreek Hill seventy two point two million guaranteed in his deal signed last month, Stefon dig seventy, Davante Adams sixty five point seven and tour again Tory Holt. I didn't bring it up to him because I didn't I didn't know how he would take it. He he wishes that he was getting obviously in his prime now to get these pay days. But I did look it up on a website and UM, Tyreek Hills UH salary this year is forty three point two million or something. It's a front loaded contract. And Tory Holt one of the best receivers of his generation. And I know different era and inflation. But still I think he made about forty five million in his career, his career fifteen seasons. It's to be annoying. I think it's one of the reason he's, uh, you know, looking for work as a broadcaster. Yes, well, I hope he's okay, funny Actually anyway, let us now move on right by the way, like that, having at some point in your life earned forty five million, it's not you know, that's not bad. That's the four taxes, though you know that's true. According to our friend rap sheet, the phone is not ringing off the hook at Jaguar's headquarters for the number one pick. And uh, you know we're going to continue to dive deep or start diving deep as we are closer and closer to the draft. Um, but it is indicative, especially we just talked about or about to talk about the Saints and if what they're gonna do now that they have two first round picks, Like the quarterback situation is affecting the draft, like you always feel like, even when it's a not a big quarterback year, inevitably someone's going on the top ten or you end up seeing two in the top ten. When you was like oh, you go to February before the fine, we're not going to see a quarterback taking in the first time. They always get taken. However, there's no Trevor Lawrence or Zach Wilson or trade lance this year. And that's why the Jaguars are just gonna have to deal with possibly sitting at number one, which could end up fine. But you also don't cry in the river because they had the number one pick last year and they got Lawrence, who was believed to be a generational talent, right and it sounds like, you know, they'll just Aiden Hutchinson will will become a Jaguar, you know, looking at the most mocks and what people think, and people aren't trading up for that guy right now. I get that. I mean, this is just a it's an atypical draft. I mean, if anything, we know the quarterbacks are always over inflated to almost an annoying degree. It's not happening this year. And if I look at the teams that I think would go quarterback in the first round, even if some of them feel a little early, it's the Panthers at six, the Falcons at eight, Seattle at nine. Potentially, then you've got the Saints sitting there with their situation and then Pittsburgh down at twenty. And I think a lot of these teams feel like these quarterbacks. If you're gonna get one of them, it's not Andrew Luck scenario. They're gonna fall. And I think teams are comfortable sitting where they are. Then makes sense. Uh, and other news we're Roland Cessler. It's a very smooth operation, absolutely. Uh. Speaking of the draft, was a report floated out there that the Jets offered up the number ten pick for DK metcap Does that sound familiar? Mark? It does, because I I quite in what way? Because I had read about this earlier, so it is familiar to me. Oh good, You don't remember the entire segment of the podcast where I laid out a trade scenario that involved the Jets offering up the number ten overall pick for DK metcalf is it does it go away that quickly? It does? But I think that, um, I think that probably it tells you that someone like Joe Douglas is listening to the shows and you know, getting ideas from you. I don't know about that, but anyway, it's been shot down in some corners and speaking of big name wide receivers, A J. Brown isn't going down the trade box block for the Titans as long as I'm the head coach, says Mike vrabel I said that on the Rich Eyes and Show. So I don't know. Sometimes you don't believe these things, sometimes you do so. Right now, according to one report, the Jets are trying to make a deal with Seattle, but other reports say that's not happening. Seattle is not interested in moving Dk Metcalf, same thing with A J. Brown. But I think we're just trained at this point Mark to expect the unexpected. At this point, one of these guys moving, we'll see if it happens. It answers the question for me if Seattle, you know, quietly or not quietly, was open to a massive, true rebuilt because this was the Jamal Adams pick. They could get it back if you want to move this wide receiver and you want to go into that, I don't think they're interested in that. I think this is a team that is not finished obviously at quarterback, and there's more to comment. So I look at both A J. Brown and DK Metcalf, and especially from the Titan side, and say I would never in my life allow for that to happen if I was the general manager to move A. J. Brown. He's two keys too important. Not every one of these wide receivers can have their fancy when it comes to moving around the league. Can we get the I have a different Titans thing to break down with Grave Digger. Can we get the cans on Grave Digger, Grave Digger? What are we doing here on Twitter? I understand you're very passionate about the Titans, and you have your podcast which everyone should check out, the Titans Film Room, and you did stellar work handling the remote and of the Throwback podcast this week where we broke down the Foo Fighters and the Taylor Hawkins. Everybody checked that out. If you're a fan of the foods um but you coming hard after Peter Schreeger, colleague, what are we doing here? P Schreg's first mock draft is out and this is Justin's move for a colleague. I know he works on the other side of the country. Quote retweet. I know Schreeger is plugged in, but he's obviously not too plugged in on the Titans. Whoa why? Why? Why a colleague taking sniper shots from the observe it to. Since mock drafts have started, people have been mocked drafting the Kobe Dean from Georgia, the linebacker winner of the but Kiss Award last year best linebacker in the Country, to the Titans at pick six. It just makes no sense. The Titans have two starting linebackers, Zack Cunningham and David Long. They drafted a linebacker out of Georgia actually in the third round last year. There's just no way that they're spending a first round pick on a linebacker. And I know Peter Schrager bases his mock drafts on what he's hearing and who he's talking to around the drop on the reg and we love him for it, but I just feel like Number one, there's been a lot of reports since John Robinson took over as Titans GM that the Titans do not talk to anyone and no information leaks, so that being a fact factor, and also just the fact that like they're not. I'm telling everyone who will listen, the Titans are not drafting a linebacker in the first round. One question. I mean, we we are, you know, A couple of years removed from a slight controversy with p or schreeger that involved myself and basically him because he said he respected Greg the most over over or was that he didn't know your name? Oh no that was Kyle Brand No, well that was yeah. Well it's you know, it's one thing or the next. But like Dan, Greg, all the guys. I fixed that up by telling him at the combine, is we were, you know, separated by an elevator door? Love you bro? Do you are? You're now going to need to patch fences? Is that actually what it's called? Men fences? With your colleague? This was were you what were you doing? Were you on psilocybin when you tweeted this? This is a bad strategy. I didn't mean this as a shot at Peter at all, and I know that he is legitimately plugged in all around the league. I just don't think he's got a good Titan source because I don't think this will happen. And I think this is like people look at the draft class and they're like, this guy's a first round linebacker, so now we got to just match him to a team. Okay, It's just you know, with a colleague, there is a better way to put it, right, great to sort of doesn't care about the environment around him. He just sort of goes afterwards. It interesting to see the grave digger dig his own grave. Well, he should be good at that. Moving on, Trope Alert Triplet Triplet. Perhaps the Jets were rebuked for DK metcalfe at this time, Perhaps a j Brown ain't going nowhere, and perhaps that's why Deebo Samuel sees the landscape and teams willing to potentially move mountains to get a number one ride receiver and says it's time to yes unfollow the forty Niners at all formats on social media. He has removed and he mentioned of the Niners from his socials and I suppose Twitter, certainly Instagram a nice old social scrub. We've been we've been on top of this, uh for years now, Mark that this is one of the great tropes that but I guess it works. Otherwise players would have stopped doing it by now. Yeah, it's it's I find it increasingly annoying and not trying to be grumpy about it, but it's kind of just like, all right, uh, we get it. You're you're disgruntled, you're annoyed, you want more money and it but it does all if you're Deebo Samuel, and if you were ever to take Deebo Samuel off the Niners, and then you're gonna turn around and say, hey, Trey Lance, have a nice time starting that is a disaster. And at this stage in the Kyle Shanahan journey, you can't do that. He's in the last year of his contract. Here's the problem right now. The Niners. I know that cap space means nothing, but they had the least, according to over the Caprinow, the least cap room in the NFL. And this whole Jimmy g thing becomes a little bit more pivotal because he has a twenty six million dollar cap hit. If you cut him. It's not one of those things where you take on four billion dollars worth of dead money. They would open up twenty five million dollars. So it maybe has you have to look at that situation. If Debo needs to get paid now, they're gonna have to make a few moves to make it happen. Interesting But still, like you know, I don't know. The reason it works, I guess is because now we're talking about it. ESPN is talking about Skip Bayliss is talking about it and all that um. But you know, I can't imagine the Niners, after what he's meant to that team not doing ever moving heaven and Earth themselves to make sure they keep him happy. That's maybe he says, Look at how valuable I am. It's time for a race like Kyler Murray's was a was a botch job. He flew a little too close to the sun, and we're kind of giggling at him because it just sort of it fizzled out. They needed a reverse and at all the pictures like debot is a whole different situation. He is the sun. He did reverse at didn't Kyler put a bunch of stuff back in there? Am I wrong about that? He did? Yeah, he did. Grave Digger saying, yes, what are we doing? That's what I'm saying. He like he came out of it looking utterly absurd. But just keep an eye on the situation. It's probably not anything, but we must report on it. It is a troupe alert. But we are a football podcast reporting on the news. Finally, two things, Whitney Merciless is retired after ten seasons. Former Texans stand out edge rusher and the honey Badger market heating up. Okay um, he visited with the Saints. He had a scheduled visit with the Eagles today, I believe, which makes a lot of sense for them, And I bring that up both because he's one of the most prominent free agents left on the market, uh and also because the Graybeards have been unveiled on NFL dot Com. We're gonna talk about it with Greggy and Evan Silva on Tuesday's episode Honey Badger. I don't don't come to me and say he has to come off my list if he gets signed today, tomorrow, over the weekend, because once you're a gray beard, you're a gray beard forever. But keep an eye on the uh, Honey Badger market. Tyron Matthew is too good a player to be sitting on the market much longer. Yeah, it could be. You know, he's I think he's waiting for the fit. He's someone that would care about the fit and the team he goes to, and certainly the money too. I mean, you've been openly tweeting about this for for a long time. I cannot I'm gonna be away, but I'm gonna have to listen to this. Evan silver appearance. I don't imagine that you will. I mean, I mean not during my time away at some other time, you know, when the days become packed and slightly annoying. Again. All right, good, that's what's happening in the news. Let's take a break and then we're gonna get Catherine Terrell to talk Saints drama. Welcome back to around the NFL. Now, we're very happy to be joined by great reporter for the Athletic covers all things Saints, and we have so many questions after the big draft pick trade that went down. Her name Katherine Terrell, don't ever call her Cat Terrell. Welcome to be around the NFL. What's up? Happy, happy to be on. How are you all do? Good? Thanks did the deep YouTube search there. We wanted to make sure we had the pronunciation right, and now explaining it to you, it's like, why didn't I just ask you? But we did the research to make sure we had the pronunciation correct. I appreciate that actually. So here's some good research, Thank you, Kevin. So here we are the Eagles scent pick sixteen and nineteen overall and one round to the Saints in exchange for the eighteen pick. One pick that's a third round two thirty seven and the seventh round pick and second round pick. So a really interesting trade, a lot of speculation. I'm curious, Catherine, is somebody close to the Saints when you see it go down and you kind of digest it, What did you take at it? What did it mean for the Saints? Well, I know everyone automatically wants to jump to quarterback, and I think it's a logical assumption, but I don't necessarily think that's what the Saints are aiming for here. They're still kind of far back to be starting. They're going to get a quarterback, so if that turns tension, they would have to make more moves. But you know, the Saints have said that they are going to curb their massive salary cap spending and try to scale back. Now I don't know if I believe them, but this would be a way to do it because then you get, uh, two rookie presumably starters that would be under cheaper contracts than you would if you had to get free agents. So I don't know exactly what it means, but I assume it's something on the offensive side of the ball. The Saints are cooking up. Yeah, it's like there's a there's a need for wide receiver, offensive tackle, and I do think the quarterback position is something that maybe I don't know if the Saints are in love with a specific one, but if the right guy falls to them, you think they might pull the lever get a quarterback and then not to tell Jamis Winston and Andy Dalton, we've got someone else to compete with you. Well, they already had to have some tough conversations with Jamis Winston when they went after Deshaun Watson and it definitely started like that made for an awkward few days. So I guess they'd just be doing it all over again. But you know, absolutely, if the right quarterback is there, I think I'll go after them. And if the right quarterback is within range, I think they'd make the moves to get them. I think the worst thing they could do would be to make all these moves just to get a quarterback and reach for one. It's not at the top of their board if it's just a guy that plays the position and they're trying to fill that need. What's interesting, though, is that they gave a first round pick next year, so Jamis is only under contract for two years, so it kind of makes you wonder, what's the long term plan here if you don't believe in Winston enough to give him a long term deal, and now you don't have a first round pick next year, so presumably you can't get a quarterback in that class. It's actually really interesting. Um, but the Saints always like to start things up around this time, right, Yeah, No, it totally makes sense. And it's just like listen, you've you've been following his team for a while. You know the path they've taken. It's always push everything back, push everything back, and load up. You have the Drew Brees. Are that all made sense. Some of the immediate its speculation around the steal was, well, this is a win now move right now for the Saints. But when you look at this roster where it is, do you see it that way? And I'm not saying the Saints see them is that way, but that's been one of the ways people read into this trade by giving away next year's first round pick. They think, if we get hit on this drafteen, maybe magic can happen quickly. Do you see it that way? Well, there's a couple of things First of all, as you pointed out, I think the Saints see it that way. Absolutely. Uh do I see it that way. I mean I do see a team that really should have made the playoffs. Last year. They had absolutely everything go wrong, and still if they hadn't had that game where Happy Team was out with COVID, then maybe things would have been different. And they had a lot of injuries, and I think you could say, hey, that team is almost made the playoffs. If they're healthy this year, why can't they contend. On the other hand, I think that this is a team that's not as good as last year because they're already missing some guys that were key parts of that team. Tron Armstead, Juan Malcolm Jenkins is another there. But you know, maybe it's all wash if you get Michael Thomas back, and you know this kind of sounds silly, but get their kicker back, and that was a huge part of last year of them losing some games. So yeah, I think I kind of see this team very similar to last team, the middle of the road team that maybe could make the playoffs, and the Saints probably see it as a team where, hey, if we get healthy, we should be able to make a run with the way that the team is structured right now. Is this a Mickey Loomis move alone or does Dennis Allen have uh, you know, a lot of say here. Obviously Sean Payton had a ments say is it Is it a different situation that Dennis Allen now sits in the chair. That's a great question because we all know Sean paytey called a lot of the shots as since he'd been there so long. Um, I think it's it's probably made in tandem. I don't think Mickey would make any move without Dennis Allen, like I think Dennis Allen was fully on board, um with going after the on Watson. But it's it's probably more the front office than Dennis Allen, I would think. I think that they're always kind of looking to see, like where we can improve our roster. But you know, just how much control Dennis Allen had. It's something that's we're not going to see for a while. I think I think it's going to take a year or two before we see if it's anything like the type of control that Sean Payton had. You should know, Catherine, by the way, that the that's a great question affects no one else in a more positive way than my partner Mark Cecily here. So you just made the man stay. You should know that I appreciate that. Thank you. You got to hand out the compliment. Um. Speaking of Sean Payton, people that who aren't as close to the team like us bozos, we we think about like m is he really all the way out? Especially if they would have landed to Shaun Watson? Would he have found his way back in that building? Do you get the vibe that the door is closed, that chapter has ended? Or is Peyton and the Saints still a marriage that could ever come back? Actually? You saying that makes me remember a point I was gonna make a few minutes ago, and forgot that the Saints might be making this move banking on the fact that some other team next year is going to trade for Sean Payton into Now what what team would it be, I don't know. If it's a team within the vision, it's the price is gonna come a lot higher, I do think for right now, the door is closed on Sean Payton just because it has to be. You can't give someone else the job and give it with the I guess air that the other coach is going to be hanging around. No, I don't think that means there's any sort of fractured relationship. But you know, you can't have Sean Payton and hanging out in the closet just waiting for so like with Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien, they shouldn't follow NBC's lead. That worked out really well for everyone. Everyone ended up really happy with that. I would have for now. I would ask this like Dennis Ellen when he was in Oakland, and I get the coaches learned from those first failed coaching experiences. There were a lot of whispers that he was not very well liked um by players necessarily that the way you know, he's a different experience than Sean Payton. Do you get the sense that the Saints locker room um doors Dennis Ellen, or is it somewhere in a bit of a darker place, potentially darker. I think that darker. I think that the defensive side of the ball really likes him. I think with the offensive side of the ball, I think there's a lot of work to be done. And I only get that sense because, for example, Dennis Allen flew out to meet with Michael Thomas in California, and he tried to say when he was speaking at the owners meetings, Oh, you know, I'm trying to get to know all the UM players, and Michael Thomas has kind of been on the periphery because he's been injured. So I of course said, Okay, did you go fly out with any other players and did you go meet them? And he said no, So you know, that's that's one relationship he's gonna have to work on because he didn't really need to work on it before, and then Jameis Winston when all that happened, he's got to work on that relationship. So I think defensively, I think those players really like and trust him, just you know, based on everything they were saying leading up to the last few months the season when he took over temporarily when Peyton had COVID and uh, there was a lot of rumors he was going to get a head coaching job. Offensively, I think that's a big question and he's going to have to answer that, and he has, I think a lot of other questions to answer to kind of prove that he's learned and moved on from what happened in Oakland. Moving back to the quarterback position, and well, maybe someone who's moved out of the quarterback position, Taysom Hill, who has had a really interesting, unique NFL journey over the last few years. I get what's happening here because I know it wasn't a full audition, but we saw maybe enough of Taysom Hill last year to say, okay, this is not exactly a guy going forward. But then we learned he's being moved out of the quarterback room entirely. He's a tie. Then now, does that mean he's not going to be there jack of all trades? Is that just now a philosophy changed with a new head coach in the building. Is Taysom Hill done taking snaps period? Well, Dennis Allen wouldn't confirm that he's out of the quarterback room, but I think for all intensive purposes he probably is. But it might be a role like two thousand nineteen. I think that worked pretty well for them. He would be um, the third guy. He would be the guy that you know, comes in to be the change of pace guy UM while still you know, catching passes and things like that. I think that's a better role for him than a direct backup and Alan was saying the same thing. He said, I don't want Taysom on the sideline next to me. And honestly, I think by this point we have seen enough a Taysom Hill at quarterback to make that decision. I honestly kind of think we saw it a while ago. I think he can just be utilized better, um in a different role than I guess sitting behind Winston, you know, hoping he's going to get a third shot to prove himself. Back to the draft for a minute, our guy Daniel Jeremiah mentioned Desmond ritter Um talking to people around the league of someone the Saints might have interested. Have you heard whispers at all about what rookie quarterback they might be into. I get that, you know, where they sit, they can't necessarily have their number one pick, and maybe they would be open to taking their second favorite guy. I'm not sure about that, but if if any name is bubbled up, honestly, with the quarterback, I think that the Saints have kind of been pretty quiet about that. You know, they haven't really shown their hand on that regard, which is why it's so interesting that they have made this trade so far before the draft. Um, it's gotten so many people talking as to what the Saints are going to do with it and why do it now versus you know, do it closer to draft day or on draft day. So I think that you know, if they do love a quarterback, we don't know yet. I feel like with Peyton sometimes you you kind of knew be left at quarterback. I think people knew about Garrett Grayson before um they took him. It's hard to remember, and obviously that did not work out, but it's gonna be interesting if they take a quarterback. Hey, I'm here for it. Um, I'm here for it. Let's do more quarterback through that after they started four different guys last year. Right, our colleague who's on vacation with see Greg Rosenthal has a theory, keep on taking quarterbacks until you hit on the one, like they did with Drew Brees, although they didn't they traded for Drew Brees, but that point finally a tweet Catherine Terrell not Terrell from you twenty six minutes ago. Drove from Baton Rouge to New Orleans today and my dog threw up three minutes away from getting to my house. I hope everyone's day is going better than mine. I hope we improved your day a little bit, although probably not. But also that sucks and I'm sorry to hear that happened to you the worst. I just thought everyone needs to know what was happening as I was driving from Baton Rouge, and I think the dog at least felt bad about it. I don't know if dog's feel bad about these things. She seemed like she felt bad about it as I was like waving my hands and frantically tell her telling her away. I just hope everyone pictures that. I do have a question. Does dog throw up have a similar smell to human throw up? Have you never been around a dog before? Not to the degree where they're throwing up before? It did not. It did not have a smell, so don't I mean normally normally it does. I hope that you never learn whether it has a smaller and I hope you never have to. That's how we get the bullet. You can do that for me, Thank you. Well, yes, she's been racked with guilt since you began this interview with us, So just go over to pattern on the head to say, good girl, good girl, You'll be okay. She's been quiet this whole thank you, So, I mean maybe she does feel bad. All right, Katherine, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you get a quarterback in the mix and make things even more exciting. But that's a fun beat to be on, and you do a great job on it takes a lot, you know. I'm a I'm all for chaos, so you know you just want to bring that. Let's let's see it the next few weeks. All right, Katherine Tarrell from the Athletic, thank you very much. All Right, there she goes, Katherine Tarrell of the Athletic over, everything's okay with the dog and I, um, it's interesting these the Saints are in I don't want to say perilous, but these are uncertain times and it just goes to show you and now the Pittsburgh Steelers are going through the same thing post Ben Roethlisberger that when you do have that legendary quarterback forever, uh, it leads to a period of uncertainty until you find that next guy. And I don't know if this trade is going to lead to them trying to identify that guy now or if they still believe that Winston could be that guy. But it's interesting watching these teams try to figure it out. Now with the Patriots, there another example and perhaps the most prominent example of being in that spot. When Tom Brady leaves, they they might have hit on Mac Jones and have a guy they can trust now for the foreseeable future. That's what the Saints are trying to do. I just I tend to think that quarterback has to be high in the radar, but you could see a combination of like offensive tackle and wide receiver if the if the wrong guy came to him. I just I I know for Saints fans, like they've been super frustrated with the inactivity of the team, and listen at least showed that they they're not in a coma the front office, and it's it's tough. It's tough to figure out their situation here with that because they were so close. It seems Undershaun Watson, which and we've talked about how you know naughty that issue is with the Browns um But if they get Deshaun Watson, and once you figure out the suspension situation that's sure to come, you have your guy for the foreseeable future. That doesn't happen and you just now realize, Okay, we have Jameis Winston, who were maybe in on, maybe out on. We have a draft class this year. We have two first round picks, but no clear quarterback for to most people. Maybe the Saints love a guy. And then now you don't have that first round pick next year. As Katherine mentioned, you've kind of boxed yourself in a little bit here and need to hit on something and maybe get a little bit lucky. So it'll be interesting to see what happens with the Saints coming up. Um, all right, now, I'm sure everyone before we sign off, Before Mark you head into your well learned vacation, well, we have a TV show tomorrow. So unless you're telling me I don't need to show up for that, just you and me would be just you a lot about the TV show, but you should not listener check it out The Around the NFL broadcast on NFL Network every Friday, three pm Eastern noon Pacific. I think that's right. A lot of people Mark are saying, Okay, so you were asked boys to speak to players who may be interested in starting a podcast how to become successful in the podcast game. And I would say we are successful. We we've done it, but we've also never thought about it before. So you and I went, we had a couple of pints on Sunday. Well, you had some chardonnay because you're classy. Well, it's just like the beer sometimes feels like I'm eating like a loafer bread, so and you don't like sometimes it doesn't feel like a loaf bread. And that's what I enjoyed. So I thought it would be maybe nice to share with everyone, including our enemies, um our strategy for success. That's how confident we are. So we're gonna use this sign off to share with you, the listener, and anyone else, including our enemies, our keys to success that we shared with the players. Is this a good idea? No, it's gonna level the playing field. Uh nuts. I don't like that. But Erica, is this a good idea? I like it. I think it shows our b d E. You know what I mean. You could use it for the for the for your broad for the broadcast. Honey, I don't need it, alright, alright, hit it, ricky number one. It's a four pillar to to to build the house said is a successful podcast. There are four pillars number one chemistry and we're not even going to elaborate the right Number one, chemistry is everything. Number two consistency and patience. Figure the rest of that out yourself. Number three d y h. Should we even tell him that? I think so, do your homework, baby. And finally, number four, be yourself. I would add a caveat to that. For plenty of these failing podcasts, being themselves has not worked. Apparently, be someone else, be us, try to be us. I mean, I feel like we've held people today, I think so. Now we just get pulled down into the sea of all the other ship. Don't let Erica's bravado throw you off. I did at the court of my eyes, so her furiously scribbling on a notepad. You know, yeah, yeah, I really wrote down be yourself. All right. Well, I'll tell you something. The players were, um, they were electrified and entranced by our words. I'm tearing up. I was beautiful. Thank you for listening to the show. Thank you to Catherine Terrell of The Athletic. Thank you Ricky, Randy Chavez, the Grave Digger, and you the listener who've been with us since. Richard Sherman and we thank you. Cannot thank you enough. Number five, get a buttload of super loyal, awesome listeners. That's it until Tuesday. Heat the Call to s