Geoff Shackelford on Augusta National’s Setup and the Youth Invasion

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Today's episode is powered by tdamor Trade. Every stroke counts on the scorecard and every penny counts in the market. That's why Tedammeriortrade is committed to straightforward pricing with no surprises, so you're free to swing with confidence. Visit tedomritrade dot com slash Fried Egg member SIPC. Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg Podcast. Today, I'm joined by Golf Channel personality senior writer at Golf Week and Jeffshackleford dot com owner Jeff Shackelford. In Part one of those two part podcasts, Jeff and I discussed the Masters, the youth Invasion, on tour technology and golf, and much more. Part two will air later this week and focus on Jeff and Gil Hans's design of Rustic Canyon, golf architecture, photography, maintenance, and much more. Enjoy and without further ado, here's Jeff Shackelford.

00:00:55
Speaker 2: I miss the green for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bumper, I'm really upset. And when I find my.

00:01:01
Speaker 3: Ball in a bright egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Frida egg egg Egg, Frida egg brid egg Lie.

00:01:07
Speaker 4: I'm about ready to run off the golf course.

00:01:39
Speaker 1: What are your impressions from Augusta this this year? I saw you wrote something about the green speeds and I think it was it was thoughtful. The pace of play was better, but a little fire was gone.

00:01:52
Speaker 3: Well, there's not really been fire in the golf course for a long time if you want to include the well, just for me, fire is is firm and fast throughout and dry. And obviously the greens are generally fast, but the fairways haven't been fast in a long time since they've been doing the cut towards the tease.

00:02:18
Speaker 2: It really does work. It stops the roll.

00:02:21
Speaker 3: And by the way, for all those who would like to blame the acronomy for the ball going longer, you can look at the driving distance averages at Augusta and see what numbers look like without role. But the greens were definitely slower. Of course, you know, a few people said all that was that because of the ANT one. I just know they were still very quick for the an one, and they're still very quick greens. They're just not thirteen and a half and fourteen. And the difference in the pace of play was noticeable. I believe on Thursday and I believe on Friday it was I think it was tough four and a half four thirty five for threesomes, which is amazing. It's been almost an hour longer. Sometimes when there's wind.

00:03:09
Speaker 4: It's you know, when JB.

00:03:11
Speaker 1: Holmes gets around in five hours, you know something's gone going good.

00:03:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you're out there and it is noticeable as a spectator too.

00:03:20
Speaker 2: It's funny too.

00:03:21
Speaker 3: And I wrote about this after the I Guesst National Women's Amateur that people thought the pace there was quick, and it really wasn't. It was four twenty for thirty players in two sms to get around, but when you were out there, it didn't feel slow that you felt like they were playing ready golf. And I attributed it mostly to the nice quick walks from from green to the next t shot. You just you just didn't spend a lot of time waiting for the players to go back there. But otherwise they were they were not anything special in terms of pace, So I thought it played better because that I mean, obviously, I think, of course would be a lot more interesting if the ball were running and running into the trees and they the guys would actually and it would favor somebody like Tiger even more in a funny way. I think he likes it playing faster, but he has adapted to what they do and it was a beautiful thing to watch.

00:04:18
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:04:19
Speaker 1: They they've obviously with the first cut, and if they just if they widen the fairways and mode out the mode, you know, the with the grain, it would essentially make the fairways about the same width.

00:04:34
Speaker 4: And then instead of.

00:04:35
Speaker 2: Oh, I think I think it'd make them narrower.

00:04:37
Speaker 3: If you took away the cut toward the tee, I think the speed of the ball rolling would would make.

00:04:42
Speaker 2: Them play narrower. That's what's ironic about it. Yeah, even in a year like this where it was soft and.

00:04:48
Speaker 1: It's getting rid of the first cut and then the ball just runs right into the trees and the pint straw.

00:04:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:04:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's allays and that's been an issue since they installed that. And then now that they've gotten really into this cut towards the tee and it's a long grain, you know, it's not a tight fairway.

00:05:08
Speaker 2: Tory pines.

00:05:09
Speaker 3: I'm trying to let's see who else overseeds that I've seen this year. I mean Tory's fairways are way better than Augusta's. It's not even close because it's just a tight cut, there's no grain and it's a thick rye grass overseed and they're beautiful.

00:05:23
Speaker 4: In this brook overseeds, right.

00:05:27
Speaker 2: Yes they do.

00:05:29
Speaker 3: And then obviously TV soackgrasses fairways were incredible this year too.

00:05:34
Speaker 2: So.

00:05:35
Speaker 3: But but if Augusta actually just had the normal, normal cut and didn't do that, and it's a grainy, leafy cut, it's really weird, and but it works.

00:05:46
Speaker 2: It just stops them all.

00:05:47
Speaker 3: And so it's but it also stops it from rolling into into troubles. So it works though because fifteen would I think they a few guys would actually get their drives down to the bottom of the hill if if they any helping win at all.

00:06:02
Speaker 1: One of the things I've looked into a lot is variance data with the majors, and you see what happens when it's rainy and when it's soft. The standard deviation set of players, so like, scoring gets very compressed. So you know, if you think back to recent major championships, the courses that have had the most compressed scoring have been the wettest ones like Baltus rawl in twenty sixteen Belle Reeve. Last year was won, but you know, this year's Masters, when I saw the weather forecast, I said, hey, you know this is going to be very compressed scoring. But you know, one of the byproducts of that compressed scoring was we saw this leaderboard where you know, heading into the back nine of Sunday, there's about twelve guys that could win. And do you think those bunch of leader boards is better for tournament golfer or do you like to see the separate the guys separate and lift like you see it, you know, more more firm and fast setups like say you're Open Championships.

00:07:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like the separation obviously because you feel like the best player usually is highlighted in that kind of a structure. But it's hard to complain about a leaderboard like we had at Augusta and and that golf course is generally one where it has been tough to separate yourself until the very end, and.

00:07:30
Speaker 2: That's what makes it exciting.

00:07:32
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm I tend I tend to think it's a better reflection on the architecture and the setup when when you see that that nice variance in the in the scoring, and you see that separation. But uh, and then we saw that in the women's amateur and and and and it should have happened there because those two players were clearly on a on a different level than some of the other players. Now that the other ones didn't perform pretty admirably, but they were clearly all aspects of their game were just a little bit better if you watch them. And it's just been tougher and tougher for that to happen in tournaments, even with good setups. I mean, Carnoussi was baked out last year, and that was a tough one for somebody to separate themselves, in part because obviously that there are just more people with more brain power behind them and making probably fewer mistakes and their preparation, and then obviously they all have really outstanding equipment and maybe equipment that you could argue also makes it a little bit tougher for the superior ball striker to separate themselves. Tigers now made that case twice with the driver, which I think is very interesting.

00:08:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's if I was going to say, his comments are to that point where the skill, a lot of the skill has been removed and you look at this youth invasion and you've got guys that are, you know, more so than ever, twenty years old and contending on the PGA tour. When you look at Tiger and guys like Justin Leonard, the great players, great ams of yesteryear, and they were struggling to make cuts when they first were coming out, and.

00:09:22
Speaker 3: It's a tough point for a player like him to make. Adam Scott has very strong feelings about it. Now Phil has strong feelings about this. And they don't want to sound like they're they're putting down younger players, and they don't want to be rude, but they've been around the game long enough to know when they're playing with somebody who who swings a certain way and strikes the ball a certain way that if you if you reduce the size of their driver head just a little bit, they would be a different player. And that's it's been a fascinating thing to see that come out of the mouths of these guys in the last five years or so.

00:10:08
Speaker 2: Tiger does it very well.

00:10:09
Speaker 3: He does it in a way that's that's that beautiful kind of You sit there and you listen, and then you go back and you read the transcript and you read between the lines, and it's so obvious what he's what he's saying, but he's he's doing it in a in an artful way, and you know, I just, uh, I'm starting to wonder though too. I'm suspicious to the fact that he's brought it up specifically with regards to driver head size. I'm starting to wonder if that is the going to be the angle of attack from the governing bodies instead of the ball. I don't know, but I'm just I'm you know, I'm always watching those things and fascinated by those comments. And Taylor may just came out with with a modern club with with all their bells and whistles and injections and and twisting faces. But about up two seventy five cc heads, So you know, I don't know if it's the right one to test, but it would be interesting. It's basically a two would I think it has a little too much loft to really test adequately, But I don't know, maybe not, but I think it's fascinating that they've done that as well.

00:11:17
Speaker 4: I messed around this winter on a track man.

00:11:20
Speaker 1: I brought my modern driver prov ones straight out of the box professionals and then a Persimmon driver and a Hickory driver. And what I saw was was with the modern driver, modern ball like you just there's no no foul balls like you know, when you almost with the ball, it still goes, you know, the same distance right.

00:11:45
Speaker 4: And what I started to see was.

00:11:46
Speaker 1: In you know, if I did it on the track man, and you know, your dispersion distance and direction was very consistent modern modern.

00:11:54
Speaker 4: And then what I started.

00:11:55
Speaker 1: To see was a angled dispersion with distance and direct action where I had the short right miss and the low left miss right right. So all my misses that were left went pretty far, but all my miss is right.

00:12:11
Speaker 2: You know.

00:12:11
Speaker 1: It brought back into play like that, that true foul ball MM because I think it was because of the head size. And that's when I when I played high school golf, I always remember being afraid of that that foul ball when you know, I was in high school in a smaller head, you know, well.

00:12:31
Speaker 3: And I think that's where Tiger and Adam and Phil Michelson are coming from. Two they're just old enough to remember this. That that that that fear factor of once you hit one of those quackers, that it that it makes it tough to really to really let it go. And now Tiger and Philler old enough to remember it with a small head, and even per Simmon Adams probably more of that that generation that remembers it from a small metal head with the early graphite shafts that were a little unpredictable. I mean I remember sometimes you would you would swear you just put a great swing on the ball and it just the clinic, the shaft just didn't react right. Something was well and you just don't.

00:13:21
Speaker 2: You don't have that.

00:13:22
Speaker 3: Now the stuff is so well made and so good, and if it's not, it gets replaced quickly and easily, and so that you know, mentally, I saw speed at an old style duck hook this year at Riviera. I mean just a reeal goes out and darts left low, and I thought, and I told a few people, I have not seen one of those at a tour event in years. And and you know, once you've hit one of those, it's it's almost the equivalent of a shank to a good player.

00:13:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:13:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, The next two drives are probably going.

00:13:57
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, and their tenant and they're probably ten to fifteen yards shorter because you're just trying to get it out there and not not repeat that jarring awful thing.

00:14:07
Speaker 1: One of the byproducts of the so we're seeing it right now is to a certain extent, everybody celebrates this parody we're in where any week we've got thirty guys that are winning. But when I think about long term, I mean, the most compelling storylines we have in golf are tigers. You know, quest for Jack's record, his you know his win total, Phill's quest for the Grand Slam, and you know his longevity and you know, adding to his career. And then you got Rory with the Grand Slam and to a lester acent Jordan. But with this parody that everybody seems to be celebrating, are we missing the really true big stories.

00:14:52
Speaker 3: I don't know if we're missing them. I don't get the celebration of it for the reasons you just highlighted that we tend to like superstars and amazing stories and history. And I think it's more of a marketing driven approach to the game, because parody is good and that you know, when you have so many events and you can still say, well, we have these top stars there and there's so there's some of that. And then obviously I don't like the parody because I think it's interesting when elite players are able to separate themselves, and I do wonder at times if the equipment makes a little bit harder to do. Obviously, there are other factors that that aren't equipment related, So I just I am fascinated by that approach. But I ironically, I think this year has been one where you kind of start to have to wonder about the parody a little bit. It was the last few years going into the Masters, We've we've had this wealth of riches of star names who you could all make a case for going in, and this year you really couldn't.

00:16:00
Speaker 2: It was a small.

00:16:00
Speaker 3: Group or a smaller group that you'd say, Wow, he's just been great every week, and he's going to have a great week there too, barring a bad tea time or something like that. So I'm not as big of a fan of it, but I understand it's a great narrative.

00:16:19
Speaker 2: It just sounds great.

00:16:20
Speaker 3: These we've never seen a generation like this, We've never seen field depth, and you've probably seen me taking that on a little bit more. Not because I'm anti millennial, I'm anti and I'm really getting tired of it, and I'm starting to get frankly kind of angry about it. But I'm anti rushing people into a career in golf and telling him they're ready and it's time.

00:16:46
Speaker 2: And you can go out and win right now on the.

00:16:48
Speaker 3: PGA Tour because you won the Southwestern Intercollegiate and you know, the average age winner this year on the tour is over thirty three and over thirty four since the big any of the year when we've had the best fields, and uh, there's a really really long list now of the next great thing that was told Yeah, you don't need to go to college for the last three months. You need to get out there now.

00:17:15
Speaker 2: You're ready.

00:17:17
Speaker 3: And it's not pretty, it's not right, and it's it's and I think the reasons for it are again driven by marketing. Well, we've got to make this tour younger, We've got to make these players younger. And then there's of course a whole group of people around these people looking to make some money off them too, which is not great either.

00:17:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so tellig when you go and I know you covered last year's US am, You've you've covered the Walker Cup, and you've covered you know, some collegious stuff. It's it's so telling when you get out there and you're following these guys and and there's just you can see the army of agents and equipment reps. It's, you know, amateur gallery at the US Amateur Now.

00:18:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's just and and.

00:18:02
Speaker 3: They get right up on the tee and and you know, good shot, good shot. You're like, hey, dude, you're from a company, like go down the fairway and be subtle about this. My gosh, he's still an amateur. But nah, it doesn't even it's just that's they've just thrown all that out the window.

00:18:16
Speaker 1: It's a it's it's a crazy because, like you know, I even think about it's like college programs with their sponsorships, you know, they aren't they're they're a very loose amateur term as of now. And I think in general we see it across all sports. The amateurism, you know, what a true amateur is is kind of changing.

00:18:37
Speaker 2: Oh it's gone. Yeah, it's gone.

00:18:39
Speaker 3: And I I struggle with making the case because as a society, we're just we're we're h so eager to rush people into adulthood and rush them into cashing in now, and it's not been good for any sport that's done it. I mean, I've been fascinated of late how many people are down on the NBA right now after just taking this incredible ride, and how many times it's the quality of the play that is starting to really be noticeable to people. And you have to attribute that to sort of the breakdown in the system of going to college and playing college basketball and developing and then and even people who saw that coming, like Charles Barkley and Shack Now even they back off that and say, yeah, you can't deny somebody the right if somebody wants to write them a check at eighteen. You know, that's capitalism. I said, well, wait a second, you know, the quality of your sport is diminished. You can't back off that point. And now I think we're You know, golf is a little different in that it's not a team sport. You don't sign a team contract, and man, it is a it is a cruel thing to throw somebody out there cash in on them, and then you know, after about a year, they if you haven't done anything, people move.

00:20:12
Speaker 2: On to the next thing.

00:20:13
Speaker 3: And we know it's a sport that it takes some time to to get the seasoning and get used to the travel. And I mean, I just happened to look at some names on the web dot com money list the other day just to see how they were doing, and I was just astounded at some of the next great talents that aren't doing a whole lot out there right now. And I just cringe because it's like, gosh, and you know, they were in a hurry to leave college. And there are only a few people who are probably held back by college golf, who are just unique talents who are just ready to go and the rest. It's a great thing to play college golf for four years and have somebody else paying for your travel and experiencing that and getting a little bit older and just getting more mature.

00:21:01
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00:21:20
Speaker 4: Teeing up a trade.

00:21:21
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00:21:31
Speaker 4: Now back to Jeff Shackleford.

00:21:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing with with with golf is be I think the hardest one of the biggest things that these guys have to adjust to is being a professional.

00:21:45
Speaker 4: Sure, And you see like Norman Johng, who's one.

00:21:49
Speaker 2: Of the one I did notice, Yes he.

00:21:53
Speaker 4: Made his first cut.

00:21:54
Speaker 1: You know, he's nineteen year old trying to live on his own on the web dot com. It's got to be a very, very, very tough transition, you imagine. And you feel for a kid like that to a certain extent. And he's got a great story with his upbringing, and you know, he's definitely not your your like cookie cutter pro. And I think there's a lot of reasons for him turning pro. He can do a lot for his family. But it's just a very difficult situation to be thrown into it at nineteen because it's not like the minor leagues of baseball, where you're you've got a team that's getting you around, just like college golf, like who's paying for your meals and everything, like you're out on your own if you you eat what you kill and and I guess that's one of the beauties of golf, but also one of the challenges for UH. It kind of makes me think back to earlier in the year when the PGA Tour talked about, you know, the rumored exemptions to in creating a college program that you know, rewards excellent amateur play to get them into PGA Tour events, and that seems to be where it's going.

00:23:00
Speaker 3: I was very excited about the news of that, and I'm a little saddened by the way Jay Monahan kind.

00:23:09
Speaker 2: Of took it out.

00:23:11
Speaker 3: It seemed like he just just kind of killed it at the players this year or or you know, he implied that it got out too early, it wasn't ready to be put out. Well guess who put it out, the PGA Tour. So that to me was a disturbing thing because I loved the concept of where they were trying to go. And it may have just been as simple as the NCAA, when are you out of your mind? This is you can't do that. We don't associate with a with a professional sports league. But it seemed at least in a few details that came out that the concept was, we recognize that it is a smart thing for somebody to to stay in college for four years and get a degree and travel and play great tournaments. I mean, look at some of the places or college golf is playing these days, and it's getting more coverage and media, so they're getting exposed to doing interviews and all that part of the lifestyle, and it's a good developmental tour. And it seemed like the PGA Tour was recognizing that it's good for them and kind of learning from what the NBA has not been able to do. And then it just he just killed it. I hope it comes back, but it was really a strange one, and I don't have an answer as to why that was the case, but it would address a lot of the things you just were discussing with Norm Jehan. Of course, he was touted as somebody who there was nothing else for him.

00:24:42
Speaker 2: To do in college.

00:24:43
Speaker 3: I heard that a couple of times and like, well he's nineteen.

00:24:49
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, he was great last year.

00:24:51
Speaker 1: But then you look at a season like Matt Wolfe's putting together and you're like, oh, well, that's like really great what Matthew Wolf's doing, or like even Colin Morico. Colin more Kaua to me is like the perfect example of a kid that I expect he's really ready to turn professional. But it's you know, as a as a freshman. He he lost in a playoff in a web event, Like how many of these kids would turn pro?

00:25:17
Speaker 4: Write then right?

00:25:18
Speaker 2: Right? And uh and by the way, he would be somebody.

00:25:21
Speaker 3: Who you actually would have really looked at and said, wow, he's I mean, he was so polished and impressive at the Walker Cup and sas was Doug gimm who you know is is chugging along pretty nicely right now, I think, and I have you know, you though he doesn't hit the ball along way, you just feel like there's somebody who's really solid and well knows how to score, and he knows how to live life and get through the uh, the things that we were kind of hitting on there and and and so there is more to it than just just being able to play. But yeah, Collins won, and Victor Hobbins another person you look at and wow, he's pretty mature.

00:26:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then you look at a guy like you know, will Zl torres A great player, but he just left school for I don't know why. You know, obviously, with the way the tour schedule is structured, you get some advantages. But I saw last week was his first top ten on the web, you know, and he doesn't I don't think he has full status out there or any status.

00:26:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's it's quite a list of people that who you just think one really you just you just didn't want to do three to four more months. But I don't necessarily blame them. I think it's, as you say, you know the people around them. You go to the US Amateur and you see who's there and what they're what they're telling them, And so that's kind of why I'm hitting on that point. I don't want to pick on the players. I don't want to pick on nineteen and twenty year olds with big dreams and a lot of confidence and a lot of just loads of talent. I'm more annoyed at the adults in the room who are doing what we hate seeing in other sports, and now it's coming to golf, and so I'm going to keep pointing it out.

00:27:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a I mean, you look at like ct pans a perfect example it takes a long time to win. And he was as decorative of as an amateur player as you could find a you know, great, you know, highly regarded as a sixteen year old, and it takes a long time, especially if you don't seem to have like that, that dominant power. That's the guy that you're still going to see them make it up and really thrive when they're hitting into their late late twenties versus you know, the guys like camp Champ can dominate right away because they're you know, one of the best on tour at something.

00:27:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, But then those if they're out there long enough, or they're around the game long enough, a ct pan can kind of see his strengths and understand his weaknesses and understand how to make out a schedule and his battles and know how to really have a nice long career based on his strengths and not get caught up and and what he doesn't do well. I think that's that's starting to be what's interesting about Jordan's speed is I I really as great as he was I my senses, he sees where the game's going, and he's tried to change to be part of of this other way the.

00:28:29
Speaker 2: Game is played.

00:28:30
Speaker 3: That's not who he is, and it's I think it's gotten him in a little bit of trouble at least on the ball striking side and the and the and the way he approaches a course, and it's it's a it's a bizarre thing to see and it shocks people.

00:28:44
Speaker 2: But but this.

00:28:46
Speaker 3: Is just how this the sport is right now. You can you can get derailed pretty quickly if you try to be somebody or not or play a game that you're you're not capable of playing.

00:28:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think that's the thing with golf is everybody always looks at it. And I had Luke Donald on the podcast and he said one of the most damaging moments of his career. I think he answered, what what would you kind of go back? Like, what moment would you go do you reflect on a lot? And he said the final round when he played with Justin Rose at the US Open at Marion, because had he won, it would have been completely different, but because he fell fell short. He looked at Justin Rose and said, I need to play like that.

00:29:32
Speaker 2: Mm.

00:29:33
Speaker 1: And it's funny because if the opposite happens in Donald wins, Rose probably would have looked at Donald and said, I need to do that like Luke Donald does.

00:29:44
Speaker 2: And that's just and.

00:29:45
Speaker 3: We've heard that story, that narrative many times that that that that somebody sees something and they just have to make a change, and it almost never works for them.

00:29:58
Speaker 2: And Luke's name.

00:30:00
Speaker 3: Comes up a lot in that in that narrative because he was so good and so consistent, so rock solid, just a money machine and a and a and contention machine. And and I understand it though too. You know, you have to look at what's going on in the sport and and you do see what advantages people get playing the game a certain way, especially right now in this sort of bomb and gollage approach, and you can't blame him for for noticing it and wanting to try to adapt a little bit.

00:30:34
Speaker 1: So, you know, we got derailed here early early early on.

00:30:42
Speaker 4: Getting back on course this PGA the new schedule.

00:30:47
Speaker 1: It could anything have gone better for the PGA Championship than Tiger winning the Masters.

00:30:53
Speaker 3: No, especially because it wasn't sold out and they've now sold out the weekend, so that's good. But yeah, no, it's fantastic, especially at a place that he's had success at and and the crowds will just be uh, they'll be amped up for him, for for Phil, for for They're just a lot of people who they're going to be excited about. And Uh, yeah, it's it's uh, it's it's just it's just fantastic, especially because I think we've already seeing a little bit of that oversaturation of the New York market in the response to some of these events, and which a few of us warned, with all these majors being awarded to that general area, that there might be a little.

00:31:39
Speaker 2: Bit of a fatigue factor.

00:31:40
Speaker 3: And so he's just put that out of its misery.

00:31:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a with the with the US Open last year, this and then they've got the they got a FedEx.

00:31:49
Speaker 4: Cups, stop this. I mean, it's a lot of golf in there. And I don't.

00:31:53
Speaker 3: Think, yeah, we've got wing Foot, We've got I mean there's there's just a lot of tournaments in the area. Uh, Trump, Deadminster. It just goes on and on. I think every year till twenty four there's there's a Major or a Major Cup event.

00:32:10
Speaker 1: What would you say your thoughts on the new schedule are you know now that we're kind of in the.

00:32:16
Speaker 4: Thick of it anything so.

00:32:18
Speaker 3: Far, No, I think it's really good. The one issue or one thing. I think we're finally going to see here a little bit. But so far they've done a very good job of getting nice fields. But I do think that Zerich was the first sign, and I think the AT and t AT at Trinity Forest will be the next sign that there are going to be regular tour events that really take a hit from this this schedule where it just the players just go, I know I have I know I have to play the RBC events or whatever they're they're uh, their their reason. I know I have to play at and T because mister Stevenson's on our board and we need to be nice to him.

00:33:07
Speaker 2: You know, there is a point where they're just going to go, I can't. I can't play that much.

00:33:10
Speaker 3: I mean, as we're recording this, Tiger woodstill wasn't committed to Quell Hollow and just watching a video of him whimping into this shoot for Golf TV. So I'm not sure we'll even see him at Quell Hollow. But so I think that's where it's it's great for the majors. I mean to think that we're going right now to a major championship after Augusta. It's pretty exciting to have that that momentum. But I do wonder what it's going to do to I mean, I think I think Tony Romo may be the second biggest draw at the and he might be the biggest straw at the at the at and t to share at Trandy Forest.

00:33:48
Speaker 1: Yes, Speth, uh, Spith might be like in the forties at that time in the world rankings, which is yeah.

00:33:56
Speaker 4: I mean, if you be one.

00:33:57
Speaker 1: Of the things that if you said two years ago Jordan Speath would be the uh, you know, thirty eighth ranked player or whatever he is right now, you know that'd be one of the long shot bets of the century.

00:34:12
Speaker 2: It would.

00:34:13
Speaker 3: But again, it's just it's a fickle sport and we've gotten spoiled, I think by by some of these players who've been pretty consistent for a while at or the young age, and we just have to remember that it it just doesn't take much to throw you off a little bit. And he might be he might have made a few mistakes, or he might be a little bit stubborn, or he might have been a little bit unlucky I mean, it just doesn't take much to to derail you. I mean, look at Patrick Reid, how hard he works at it, and it's not it's not it's not getting better, it's getting getting worse.

00:34:50
Speaker 2: And maybe and.

00:34:53
Speaker 3: So it's it's a cool sport that way. But by the way, so Trinity Forrest also, just to get to that topic. The other issue obviously with that one is not just the date and a busy schedule, but also I think there's a sense that the players, even though they tried so hard to make it palatable to the modern mindset, they still didn't like it.

00:35:17
Speaker 2: And so I think if.

00:35:18
Speaker 3: You guys are just skipping it because it's not a good pre PGA Championship course, which I think is a shame. But I understand the mentality that a linksy style week before Beth Page isn't exactly a great preparation. But I don't know that may be overrated too.

00:35:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think.

00:35:39
Speaker 1: That it's a It doesn't make a ton of sense also to have the back to back Dallas weeks separated. Yeah, I mean you talk about making it easy guy for guys to go places. That's a perfect example of making it very difficult and making enforcing people to choose who's going to get go Dallas to Long Eye back to Dallas. You know, yeah, it's just it's just not going to happen. But you know, when you're somebody's playing their schedule, they see two Dallas stops in a row, it's like, well that's that's pretty easy, you know, good city to go hang out for two weeks.

00:36:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's It's definitely the one that stood out when they released the schedule that just didn't quite make sense and probably will be needing some adjustments, especially given AT and T's role and in the in the sport and their influence and their possible interest in being a television partner as well.

00:36:34
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would have loved to see.

00:36:37
Speaker 1: And I know this this doesn't work because obviously FedEx paid the big bill, but if you were gonna do something and give somebody a w GC that that would have been a place that I would have loved to see. And I know I had heard rumors that it might become the match play spot, but that just got re upped down in Austin. So it's a very it's in a very precarious spot. And then I've also seen following the superintendent Casey Koff on Twitter, there are historic rain totals this year too.

00:37:07
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, but he's still going to try to get it a little firmer and faster from what I've heard, which is and what the owner wants. So I mean, I love that place, So I hope it goes. I hope it goes.

00:37:20
Speaker 2: Well.

00:37:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a I think what we saw last year, and we saw from a lot of guys, was like they realized, like, Wow, if I played great golf, I shoot a really good score, and any type of golfer out there can play great golf on the golf course and shoot a good score. It's you know, it's a course that it just boggles my mind how you know these guys can go out to the Open Championship one week and talk about how amazing it is and how great of a golf experience it is, and then two weeks before that they could throw a fit about about the golf style there, which is you know, essentially an American version of it.

00:37:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was really strange. The caddies had an outing there I think the year before and and and that really started a narrative that wasn't great. They I don't I don't know if the conditions were extreme that day. I don't remember what what their their thing was, but there once you get them going on a narrative that can be dangerous, and then you know there are no trees and it's it is, there's no four seasons hotel. The range is over. You have to take the shuttle. You know, all these weird little elements to.

00:38:36
Speaker 2: It that they.

00:38:39
Speaker 3: They they immediately start developing a viewpoint and and it just snowballs from there and it's it's a bizarre to watch. And it's why I thought the toor did a great job kind of easing them into that place.

00:38:52
Speaker 2: But we'll find out.

00:38:53
Speaker 3: If it was enough to to draw a good field back.

00:38:58
Speaker 1: Something that you've been from the beginning is the condensing of the LA Open, the men's LA Open. I guess it's l A Open, no more LA Invitational.

00:39:09
Speaker 2: Now waiting to hear the new name.

00:39:12
Speaker 3: I don't know what it'll be.

00:39:14
Speaker 1: But the you know, smaller field sides, and it goes into this, you know, beyond the majors, we now have these, we have the players, which is its own you know, quasi major or they say that, say it is, and then the we have the w G season. You know, what are your thoughts on this new elevated status tag that's getting thrown around.

00:39:37
Speaker 2: Well, I understand it.

00:39:38
Speaker 3: In the case of this event, you are locking in Tiger to be associated with it the rest of his his life essentially.

00:39:48
Speaker 2: But and then you hear the reasons.

00:39:50
Speaker 3: And and obviously there are a lot of great reasons, but then there are also the pace of play reasons and and and we just you know, the days are so short at the one here in LA that it's just really hard to get a field around, especially at the pace they go at now. But field sizes, as we know, is not always the cause of pace of play. They like to say it is, but you get small fields that still take five hours and thirty minutes if the conditions are a certain way. So I so I have mixed feelings about it. I have very strong feelings about it in the case of the LA event, because it's it's been an invitation or excuse me, an open event since it's since the beginning, and if you go back and read about it, there was a lot of pride in the fact that it was an open event, and through the ninety whatever it is, ninety three years, there's some amazing stories because it was an open event and because there was a qualifying and people like Daves of Harris qualified and played in the LA Open. So I love open events and I love what they do in a community. And I was talking to a golf pro yesterday about this very thing, and that you know, the local section spot will probably go away, and you know about once every four to five years, that created a fantastic local story of a pro making the cut or a pro shooting sixty four is a club pro and that kind of thing. And I love those little elements to a golf tournament. And I think that's that's what you lose. But I just don't know how much people value that. I think they still do.

00:41:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think the purests value it.

00:41:40
Speaker 1: I think that's you know, but the mass appeal is all about you know, ten guys. And I think that's something that Tiger's illuminating is like how little the It's almost like a blessing and a curse when he comes back, you know, he comes back and you realize, like, well, does anything really matter outside of the four majors.

00:42:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, and in a way, and that's probably about right. That's kind of where I've been.

00:42:06
Speaker 2: Lately, been really major focused. And and.

00:42:11
Speaker 3: I, uh, yeah, there's just so much in a short period that that there is a point where you have to kind of pace yourself, whether you work covering it or whether you're a fan. And ultimately, the majors are the things and and the Ryder Cup that just are on a different level. There's just there's just no way around it. And and and and I don't discount that.

00:42:36
Speaker 2: The tour.

00:42:38
Speaker 3: Or tours trying to push other events as just as significant as these majors almost turns people off a little bit and makes them almost resist that some I don't know, that's it's a hard thing to gauge, but I do since that sometimes, Yeah.

00:42:55
Speaker 1: I think it's just sometimes letting something have its own feels or feel is the is the best case, you know, best thing you can do is But it's also the hardest thing. Is like sitting aside and saying like, hey, if we do nothing, it's the best thing we could do. Is like something that's very hard to come to grips with.

00:43:16
Speaker 3: Right, right, And you have a lot of people who are making decisions, who've worked in marketing and marketing people that's their training is to to push, push, push and get the word out. And if they don't do that and the thing isn't talked about and there aren't impressions and views, and then then they get they get in trouble.

00:43:34
Speaker 2: So it's a it's a tricky balance.

00:43:37
Speaker 4: That'll do it for Part one with Jeff Shackelford.

00:43:39
Speaker 1: We'll be back later this week with part two of our conversation with Jeff.

00:43:45
Speaker 4: Thanks and hope you guys have a great week.

00:43:47
Speaker 3: You've been listening to the Fried Egg podcast, we do the digging for you.