Jeff Sherman Meets World (again)

00:00:18
Speaker 1: Some Boy Meets World in Pop Culture News. We got a lot of emails about all three of these things. And first up is a new movie out called Boy Kills worlds Well sent it in our group chat. We also got a lot of emails about it. There were a lot of comments on social media. It comes out in April, but the trailer was released last month and it stars Bill Scarsgard, Jessica Roth or maybe Roth and Brett Gelman. It may have similarities to the name of our show, but that's about where it ends. The movie is about a deaf man named Boy who escapes to the jungle after his family is killed. He's then trained by a mysterious mentor to enact vengeance on the murderers.

00:01:04
Speaker 2: Oh god's my dream movie.

00:01:06
Speaker 3: It's like kill Bill, right, it's a very kill Bill John Wickish.

00:01:09
Speaker 4: Right, you want to star in that movie?

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Speaker 2: Will If they're the like the the lead guy.

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Speaker 5: Is this really out of shape guy who doesn't really pick up the martial arts quickly?

00:01:20
Speaker 2: I'm the guy you call. That'd be great. I get to the first you know, it's always like a video game.

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Speaker 5: You've got to go level by level and you get to the bad boss, right, and be killed at the first level every single time.

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Speaker 4: I think you sell yourself short.

00:01:32
Speaker 6: Yeah, but do we think.

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Speaker 1: The title is a reference to boy Meets World? Did boy meets World create that phrase?

00:01:39
Speaker 4: Meets World?

00:01:39
Speaker 2: No, boy meets.

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Speaker 3: Girl, Right, So I think it was a development.

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Speaker 7: I think it was boy meets Girl is like the saying or the phrase, and then boy Meets World was a.

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Speaker 3: Play on that.

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Speaker 7: And now it does seem like boy meets World has entered enough of the like cultural zeite guys that you can build on off that, right, Yeah, so it's like riff.

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Speaker 3: It is sort of a riff on our I mean.

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Speaker 7: I think because howels because I remember when Boy Meet's World was the title, when that was announced before we did or we had already done the pilot, it.

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Speaker 3: Was we were all like kind of and then it just kind of got used to it.

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Speaker 7: And now it's totally like, I can't imagine it being called anything else, but it wasn't.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it was a great.

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Speaker 2: Title at first it either.

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Speaker 7: But yeah, I can't even I can't even like reset my brain to that feeling because.

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Speaker 3: I can't show I.

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Speaker 1: Have no memory of it's just like right being the thing, right, and I wonder.

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Speaker 3: If most people feel that way. Now you know it's.

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Speaker 5: Because you when you booked it, though, because now we've seen the original original.

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Speaker 2: When you booked it, was it the Ben Savage Project or was.

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Speaker 3: It eleven untitled Ben Savage product?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I never saw it. It was eleven.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, so the pilot that you got, because you actually send it to me and I haven't watched it. You sent want the original you did, and it was called eleven in that Yeah, yeah, okay, so it must have been untitled Ben Savage. Then they tested eleven, right, and then they were like, Nope, that's not gonna work, and this older brother's not going to work, and that dad's not gonna work, and so they made all those changes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But I remember.

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Speaker 7: Going back to BOYL and being like what they talking with my parents being like I don't like this, but now I totally love it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, perfectly.

00:03:14
Speaker 4: I want to clarify.

00:03:15
Speaker 1: I think we had talked about this very early on in the show, that we had seen the original pilot, that Will had found it. I think we talked about it on the show, but just in case we haven't, Will had a copy of the original Boy Meets World pilot. That was the one we saw called eleven and no, I'll answer your question now, we will not and cannot post it. But it had the original cast members, the original Eric and the original Alan Matthews.

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Speaker 4: So we we have seen it, but we know we will not share it with you.

00:03:51
Speaker 1: As much as we'd love to, we would be sued to high heavens, yes so fast.

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Speaker 7: Something that's with the title that's always struck me is like I realized after we finished the show, Like you know, if I talked about the show ever in my life, and I know we all when we talked about it, we always referred to it as boy.

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Speaker 4: Boy like we were just shortened it to boy, but fans didn't do that.

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Speaker 7: Like within the production we always said, oh I got to go back to work on boy, or we're in a new season a boy like That's how we always referred to it. And it was like later I would make that reference to non production members.

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Speaker 3: That it'd be like, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 7: And if anything, it would be shortened to like BMW yeah yeah, which is so weird because we never called it that, like we never were like you know, and so I wonder where that's at now because I'm assuming we still call it boy, like do we I don't know on this show do we call it?

00:04:46
Speaker 1: I call it BMW and anything that's written bmwbmwbm do anything written is BMW. I will say, especially if we're ever talking about boy versus girl, Like when somebody comes up to me and talks to me at a con and they say, like playing Topanga and they have a question about it, and I'll say, well, when we were doing boy and then and then, but then when we did girl, and so I I do notice that, I'll do that.

00:05:09
Speaker 4: I say it like that.

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Speaker 2: I just call it fuller house, which is really confusing, how that you know.

00:05:15
Speaker 1: What you're right now that now that you mention it my show is that? Where my show Eric Matthews Show. When I was on my show, I was on So Second Up. One of TV's best and brightest stars in my humble opinion, was on Hot Ones with Sean Evans, a show where celebrities eat escalating hot wings.

00:05:37
Speaker 4: During an interview, I.

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Speaker 2: Want to do that.

00:05:39
Speaker 4: I want to do it.

00:05:41
Speaker 2: I want to do it.

00:05:43
Speaker 3: Well, you took the kalas off of my plate. Last night. We had dinner at like taking a kalipino off of every.

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Speaker 7: Single piece of sushi that they were serving.

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Speaker 3: You were like, you're not going to eat those.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you something, right, if we ever got offered to do hot ones as a trio and you said no and then we didn't get to do it, I would not kill you, but I would think.

00:06:10
Speaker 3: Can you tap out? Can you stop? Yes, I've never seen it.

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Speaker 7: I could just tap out before we even started to be like, yeah, you can tap out.

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Speaker 3: Milk God the option.

00:06:22
Speaker 1: You could have any type of milk you want, but milk is counteracts the heat, so they let you could have an oat milk.

00:06:29
Speaker 7: Much eat like bread. Isn't it better to eat something that like sort of absorbs the oils.

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Speaker 2: They let you do that though.

00:06:37
Speaker 1: When we were in Thailand, I ate the hottest fries I've ever eaten in my life, and nothing was working. I was like, anything, give me regular fries, give me bread, give me a cracker or anything.

00:06:46
Speaker 4: And milk did actually help.

00:06:49
Speaker 2: It helps a bit.

00:06:50
Speaker 1: The time I got to milk, I was like, Okay, this is working a little bit.

00:06:53
Speaker 2: It's a stop gap to get you to the bathroom.

00:06:56
Speaker 3: Correct, this is so awful.

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Speaker 6: Why do you do this too.

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Speaker 4: We want to do it.

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Speaker 8: I want to do it.

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Speaker 2: I want to do it. I do so.

00:07:03
Speaker 1: In this segment, Sean is rapid Fire asking Quinta Brunson questions and her thoughts on some classic sitcoms. And she's from Abbott Elementary I've never seen. He is incredible and she's just I absolutely love her. I follow her on Instagram. She's one Emmy's She's she's like an EP. She's so freaking smart and wonderful. Anyway, Boy Meets World is mentioned, and here's the clip, and remember she's currently trying not to die from wing heat.

00:07:36
Speaker 9: Okay, world great in Philadelphia, mister Feenie legend, interesting cast, one of the first interracial couples on on our on our TV screens that we just allowed in every day. Good to Panga, that's fine.

00:07:57
Speaker 3: That's fine, to Panga, that's fine.

00:08:00
Speaker 4: That's a bunch you though. That's a fun name.

00:08:03
Speaker 1: I loved it and everybody kept sending it to us.

00:08:06
Speaker 4: So great, so fun.

00:08:07
Speaker 1: Always fun to see a Boy Meets World mentioned, like in the wild, you know, like when it's on Jeopardy or something. I always think, Wow, that's so cool.

00:08:17
Speaker 5: I'm still waiting to see one of our Pod meets World shirts in the wild was I saw one? A guy walked onto an airplane with one, but it was coming back from one of our live shows.

00:08:27
Speaker 4: I think, what about the counts?

00:08:28
Speaker 3: What about the football player who got injured during the Super Bowl? Yeah?

00:08:31
Speaker 4: Oh j yeah that counts.

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Speaker 10: You were one of our shirts, right, I met like in like I actually, yeah, he went to the mall or something, and it's like, and I never go to the mall, so that probably won't happen, but somewhere where I'm like, hey, Pod meets World shirt, that would be cool.

00:08:47
Speaker 1: Well, finally, this one has been brought to my attention a lot, and it involved another best and Brightest star, Elvis himself some might.

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Speaker 4: Say Oscar nominee.

00:08:56
Speaker 1: Austin Butler, the thirty two year old was asked on the Drew berry More Show about who his first crush was, and here is his answer.

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Speaker 4: It was your first crush.

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Speaker 11: I think, like Topanga on what was that show? Was that?

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Speaker 8: Boy? Is that?

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Speaker 6: What was that?

00:09:13
Speaker 7: Well?

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Speaker 3: Say you find a boy in this world? Which one is it? Boymous world?

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Speaker 8: To me?

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Speaker 6: Manga?

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Speaker 4: Okay, So it sounds.

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Speaker 2: Like just a bunch of clips of celebrities talking about you.

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Speaker 3: Hmm, is that what you you found? Shatter?

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Speaker 6: And another time people loved me and here I was the world crush.

00:09:38
Speaker 1: From getting asked about Boy Meets World And then one that's Austin Butler saying I was his crush.

00:09:44
Speaker 4: Outed this whole thing.

00:09:45
Speaker 2: Now, you guys.

00:09:46
Speaker 4: Accusing me of it being about me.

00:09:47
Speaker 8: No.

00:09:47
Speaker 1: I thought that was very cute and people sent it to me all over the place because Austin Butler is obviously I mean, he's a smoke show and that's pretty cool to be his first crush.

00:09:55
Speaker 4: But also I just want to play this clip because.

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Speaker 1: Because it from a few months earlier when he was promoting Elvis and weirdly w magazine asks him, who was your first crush?

00:10:09
Speaker 4: And here's what he said.

00:10:11
Speaker 8: It was my cinematic crush.

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Speaker 11: I had a crush on to Panga from as A Saved by the Bell. Oh, to Pega from Boy Meets World It's not Saved by the Bell?

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Speaker 3: Yeah to Penga, Yeah, I watched that a lot.

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Speaker 8: As a kid.

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Speaker 11: I feel like that's the first time I remember having a crush.

00:10:29
Speaker 3: He's stilling a cool and cool. I don't know, I mean, I don't know what show it was, Mike, Why keep doing a bit?

00:10:34
Speaker 4: What do you keep doing a bit?

00:10:35
Speaker 8: Bro?

00:10:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bit.

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Speaker 6: Elvis's Creek the first one? Which one to get it?

00:10:41
Speaker 4: You didn't remember? Saved by the Bell? Couldn't couldn't get it right? Who was it? Save by the Bell? Just a few months.

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Speaker 6: Later, you know he's got he's got a lot in his his play.

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Speaker 3: He's dealing with a lot.

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Speaker 7: He's still it's like Saved by the Bell and boy means world occupy the same part.

00:10:57
Speaker 3: Of his uh, his brain. You know that was a good show.

00:11:02
Speaker 1: I think he's still doing the Elephs voice I can't.

00:11:06
Speaker 2: Get rid of and send one out to her.

00:11:09
Speaker 3: Let's let's keep our yours open. I wonder if he's gonna do it a third time.

00:11:14
Speaker 7: Show.

00:11:15
Speaker 1: At this point, no one out there doesn't know the answer, so no one will ask him that same question again and yet again.

00:11:22
Speaker 4: Who's your first crush? Anyway? Welcome to Pod Meets World. I'm Daniel Fischel, I'm writer Strong, and I'm Wilfredell.

00:11:41
Speaker 1: So if you have been listening to the season four episodes of this podcast, you know that, without a doubt, this has been the absolute best run of Boy Meets World we have seen so far. There have been so many iconic moments, memorable storylines, legendary quotes, peak performances, and hilario jokes. It has caught us completely off guard. How did this particular run of scripts and ideas for twenty two episodes of the show become what appears to be an undeniable sweet spot?

00:12:10
Speaker 4: What happened? What was different?

00:12:13
Speaker 1: How did they bat so close to a thousand? We've thrown out ideas like increased budget, a comfort over time with the production schedule, a shift in the writer's room, or a newfound commitment to other characters. Anything is possible, but we want to know more about it. So to talk about the excellence that is season four, we are welcoming back one of the core members of the creative team. His name has appeared on some of the most classic Boy Meets World scripts, and from what we've seen so far in season four, he wrote Shallow Boy, Dangerous Secret, and an Affair to Forget Quite a trio. So please welcome back to Pod Meets World. Writer and producer Jeff Sherman.

00:12:51
Speaker 7: Hey, hi gotcha?

00:12:57
Speaker 6: Are you not?

00:12:57
Speaker 2: Did you give up your more? And this is not an exaggeration.

00:13:02
Speaker 5: Sixteen mile walk to come and talk to us today.

00:13:06
Speaker 8: I would give up seventeen miles for you.

00:13:10
Speaker 2: He walked sixteen miles. He walked sixteen miles a day.

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Speaker 3: That's amazing.

00:13:15
Speaker 8: I got into a pattern of walking eight miles a day. But then about twice a week, I'll try to get down to the beach and I'll just walk in the bike path for sixteen miles.

00:13:23
Speaker 3: So and you're listening to Podmeet's World the whole time.

00:13:26
Speaker 8: I actually do.

00:13:29
Speaker 3: I love it.

00:13:31
Speaker 8: You could staff over by, I walk and I just get lost in what you're talking about.

00:13:36
Speaker 3: Screaming at us the whole time. You're like, that's not what, that's not right. That's once in a while, it's just I wish I could just you know, all in. Yes, that's why we had you back. That's why we had to have you back.

00:13:49
Speaker 8: I'm so honored to be back you guys. It's great.

00:13:51
Speaker 1: Well, we wanted to bring you back on the show to talk about the magic that has been season four and what was happening behind the scenes while like all this classic was being made.

00:14:02
Speaker 8: Well, you know, I've been on the show from the very beginning, not the pilot itself, but I came on. My first episode was on the Fence, the first episode that aired out, so I'd been on it the whole time and seen different iterations of the staff. You know. The first year it was like a doctor in Strauss kind of year in April Kelly, and then they all left, and then it was David Kendall for a couple of years, and then the fourth year, Bob Young came on and David left. I think he'd had enough of it, really know. We never really talked about it, but it's sort of the same way you guys are with the cast. People would leave the staff and we would never hear why, but you know, it just kind of happened, right. So fourth year came on and I loved Bob Young. He was great. He was a perfect kind of a counter to Michael. He was really kind of, you know, joke structurally interesting things. He had sort of different take on things, and he was sort of a voice of reason sometimes when when you that writer's room.

00:15:00
Speaker 6: So interesting.

00:15:02
Speaker 7: Yeah, he was a very different personality because I mean to be honest, like Bob, he sort of he for us. He was not like very aggressive, he was very sort of the nicest Yeah, totally the nicest guy. But I always remember, like if I was having a conversation with Bob, it was like, okay, we've been thinking. It was always so reasonable and sort of like, here's what's been going on. He's just such a great guy, but a very different energy than like the rest of the writing stuff.

00:15:26
Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, Well, you know, the great thing with the writing staff is you tend to get you know, when you when you fill a writer's room, you get people. It's like a baseball team. You get somebody's good at hitting, somebody that's good at pitching, somebody that's good at fielding, whatever. And so that room the fourth year, I think it really kind of came together and there was a lot of cooking there. You know, we had bloodin bus Gang Minell was there, he was that, Matt Nelson was there. I don't completely remember the whole was Kevin there, Kevin Calton maybe he might.

00:15:55
Speaker 4: Have been Kevin Kelton, Susan Estelle Janson, Steve.

00:15:58
Speaker 8: Hibbert came in the gimp.

00:16:04
Speaker 7: I remember you telling me this was after boy Me's World. I remember you you said basically the same thing you just said, and you put it so well and it's something that's it's like a lesson that's always stuck with me.

00:16:12
Speaker 3: You're like, look, right, are there are? There are really kind of three types of television writers.

00:16:16
Speaker 7: There are those who are good on the page, there are those who are good in the room, and there are those who are good at both. And you're like, and you kind of need them all, you know, like and you weren't saying that like one was better than the other. You were just like, there's different different, and that's really stuck with me. And I think that's super true. Do you where do you fall?

00:16:33
Speaker 8: Are you?

00:16:33
Speaker 3: Are you good at both?

00:16:34
Speaker 8: Or you know? I'm When I went into the writer's room the first year, I was kind of shy. I didn't really I'm not a stand up comedian. I hadn't been used to being in writers' rooms. But by the fourth year I was pretty good at speaking up and pitching stuff and adding jokes to people's things. You know, I pitched a bunch of stories that got made for the season that some of them I didn't even write. You know, I kind of got it for me. The fourth season, the age you guys were at, you know, we went from being a kid showed a sort of like an older adolescent show.

00:17:07
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:17:07
Speaker 8: Yeah, So it opened up a whole bunch of stories I was more comfortable with, and I got to do a couple of stories that I really wanted to do. For the four years, you know, I earned a little bit of cred with Michael, and so for instance, one of the shows that I wanted to do all four years was A Dangerous Secret of the Beauty and Michael said the first you know, I just got laughed out of the room. The first year they went, really, we're going to do an abuse show with a little kid. And then second year and so finally I was only contracted for three years and I was getting offers from other shows I kind of wanted to go to. I loved you guys that I wanted to stay. But there it was a little tents in the room. I'm not going to get into why, but it you know, there were some political things going on and stuff, and I was I was feeling it, and so I was kind of looking around and Kendall left, and I think Michael kind of freaked out because he was so important to the show, and so I was going to leave. I got an offer to go to do something else.

00:18:04
Speaker 4: We'd wait, I want to know what was the offer?

00:18:06
Speaker 8: What was the for you know what I'm saying McCarthy show.

00:18:10
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, right.

00:18:11
Speaker 8: And so U and they were kind of coming to me and would you leave? Would you? And I'm forgetting Yeah, it kind of you know, they were going to offer me a promotion and raise and it's an adult last three episodes? So is it is better?

00:18:25
Speaker 7: So the industry is so crazy now, I mean, because you think about that position you're in and you're like, yeah, I've got it, you know. I mean, it's a great position to be in in your career where you have already have this this this body of work and established show.

00:18:37
Speaker 3: But do you take the risk?

00:18:38
Speaker 7: You know, because if that had gone, that could have been the next Friends for you know, and then it could have been launched your career in this whole other way.

00:18:45
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:18:46
Speaker 2: But that's the other question is does it go more than three episodes?

00:18:48
Speaker 5: You never know running it it went three because he didn't go maybe it goes longer if Jeff we're there.

00:18:54
Speaker 2: So it's you're gambling every single time you take it.

00:18:56
Speaker 3: And it's so hard to predict because we've all read those scripts.

00:18:59
Speaker 7: That were like, well this is a slam dunk, or you see those casts that you're like, well, this cast.

00:19:03
Speaker 3: Can't lose, and then it does. It doesn't matter. It's just so hard to know.

00:19:07
Speaker 8: There's so many factors. It's where it's programmed in, you know what it's following. There's all these different things, so you know on for so, Michael said to me. He took me in his office. He said, I want you to come back, and I said, well, I'm getting these offers. He goes, I know, but how about I'll let you do that show you want to that episode, said so, and I said, and the other thing I want to do by the end of the year is I want to get Eric into college. And I just felt that was the feene Eric thing all the way. If you look at if you trace my episodes, it's the sat it's all the different things I really want. Eric was always really bright, and I felt that Corey knew that because if you see Eric kind of plays goofy around other people, and when he gets serious with Corey, he's really smart. He gives them, he almost gives them Feenie advice in his own way.

00:19:53
Speaker 3: Wow insight.

00:19:55
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I knew Will, I knew all you guys, and I just went, he's so smart, and you know what I said. Anyway, So the dangerous secret when I'll go back to so Michael in the room was like, I remember, I was getting real opposition. That's gonna be horrible. It's gonna oh serious of special Jeff. You know, I got the damn I've got a deal with Michael. And he said I could do it this year. So I go in and I outlined it. I showed it to Michael and he says, okay, sure, He said, I'll tell you what, if you can make this funny and not too heavy for two thirds of it all support you wanted. If you can't, I'm not going to do the episode, it said, bit you, he said. I said, I'd let you write it, so I.

00:20:39
Speaker 3: Oh, wow, you had to. You had to prove it on the page.

00:20:44
Speaker 8: And it was hard because when I finally got down to it, I went, I got to make this thing work right, And I was really serious about it, and I talked to a couple of psychologists, a couple of police officers about what to put in this episode before I'd even pitched it. You know, amazing, So then everybody was sort of pointing me toward this place called the Child Help Hotline. Everybody I talked to you, they said, that's kind of the clearinghouse for all kids that are in trouble. It was a national hotline. Still is it's still there. Sadly, it's still an issue. And so I got in touch with a head of Child Help Hotline and we talked for a long time, and he put me in touch with victims. He put me in touch with people that worked with their group. I talked to so many people, and I kind of I made notes and found what the common things were. In fact, some of the poignant lines in Dangerous Secret, like when Claire says why did he have me? That was what devastated Yeah, it was real dialogue. The people said to me, most of it in that part, and I wanted to make it right. And the thing that kind of upset me was when the show went to Disney Channel. Writer, I don't know. I remember I was listening to an episode of A couple when you were talking about it, And remember that Michael and I called you up into the office and he was there. The reason we called you up was because I wanted to put a PSA at the end of the episode, which is I don't know if you guys have gone through that. It's a big ordeal because you have to get network, studio approval, you have to get you know, your group's approval, you have to get all these different things.

00:22:09
Speaker 5: So I got it, by the way, just for everybody listening who might not know, a PSA's a public service announcement. It's one of those things at the end where it's like drawing attention to whatever issue.

00:22:17
Speaker 8: You just right and shows the number for the hotline. At the time, there was no internet, so it's just a phone number. Now they're online, you can find it, and so it was really important me to get this right. And so when we got the PSA on, I got a phone call from the network. They said you can't put that on. I said, what are you talking about? They said, well, Child Help Hotline is backed by a corporation that is in conflict with one of our big sponsors and they don't want it on. I said, okay, their number, So I called and spoke to a This was like a major This was just me going, I'm constantly trying to get and I cut this kind of the phone, and I shamed him and I said, so you're gonna you know, this is one of the most watched kid shows, family shows in the country, in the world at the time, And I said, you know, this is a wonderful opportunity for people to find a resource to get help, and you're going to stop that. And the guy shamed if. He said, all right, go ahead. So I got it and we and we put it on. But when we went to Disney Channel, for some reason, they've cut the Child Health Hotline thing out. Probably there's oil, maybe it was time. I don't know. I know everybody goes, you know, go to the police. Even the police told me it's great if you come to the police in an emergency, but child Help Hotline is the real solution because they have to get you to the right people.

00:23:36
Speaker 1: Well, that ps A is on YouTube and it's in writer's voice, so if anybody's interested.

00:23:42
Speaker 7: Okay, So you called me into the office to check if I would be cool recording the voiceover.

00:23:48
Speaker 8: Wasn't it will do it, But it didn't make any sense because it was your story, you know. But or Ben you know, but but I thought that and you you said absolutely were yeah, Oh.

00:23:59
Speaker 5: Wow, it's so interesting that you say that you got a lot of your dialogue from survivors and things like that, because one of the things we talked about when we recapped the episode was all the little subtleties that were done that made it so real, like her saying if you say anything, I'm just gonna lie. Yeah, her blaming herself making it a powerful man instead of it was like only takes place in poor communities. It was all those little things that were done that made it that episode to where we as we're talking about it, we're like, it all worked because of those things.

00:24:30
Speaker 2: It just made it very real.

00:24:32
Speaker 5: And of course then the actress Arianna was just so good and really just crushed the park.

00:24:38
Speaker 2: It was just it was.

00:24:39
Speaker 4: Yeah, was she chosen? Did she audition? Was she chose?

00:24:43
Speaker 8: Like?

00:24:43
Speaker 4: How did how did you get to her?

00:24:46
Speaker 8: I was at the point where I could do that. I had seen Jurassic Park and I said it would be great to get that girl. It's in Jurassic Park. And we got her and yeah, yeah she was terrific. But you know it's for me. It was like I knew this was going to be my last year because I thought it was going to towards the end of the year. I think I told you last time in the last podcast. Michael came to in my office and he said, you know, sure, I'm going to be doing some other stuff, so I want you to run the show next year. So I started working on them, and then and Bluckman and Bustment I think had gone away, and then they came back and wanted to do it. Michael said, I have to give it to them because they are half stuff above you, and I left because that was that was kind of my political We were bumping up. We're all really good friends. Now at the time, you know, you're stuck in a room together type.

00:25:29
Speaker 7: I have to think about your own career too. You're all jocking for the future, you know, can't you can't just be thinking one episode out or one season out. You have to think, you know, I got to provide for my family and provide for my career.

00:25:42
Speaker 8: Yeah, and this serial with TV, you know, because you do take this big leap over this gap going. I hope that show keeps what you were saying before. You know, you don't know, but I knew that for me developmentally and every other way I saw that the show was going to start turning a little more serious. I just I really, my goals when I came men were I really wanted to get Will in college. I wanted to get Eric in college. I just thought that's such a thing. So that was the other I know this, you guys haven't done that episode yet, but when you get to it, you know, it was like we had a big debate in the writer's room because you know, Michael never finished college. A lot of the people in that room never went to college and never finished college. So they were going, do you really need.

00:26:19
Speaker 7: College to have a life, And oh, that's so interesting because we've talked about that. The college focus on boying me's world. So so you were the pro college.

00:26:27
Speaker 8: Guy absolutely, and I just you know, it's it's fine to you know, you don't necessarily have to go. But for everybody kind of perceived a kind of maybe he was dumb, but I always thought it was really smart. The one woman show, you know, we just did that. It was funny. You know, it was like he was he was doing he did things when the time came. He was really smart and made the right moves. And I thought, this kid is a role model for so many kids. And if we say he doesn't have to go to college, think how many kids would have gone I don't have to go to college. So I I just took Michael aside again and I said, Michael, this is he'd given me this last episode. I'd had four. I was contracted do four, and he came to gave me five, which was a I think Bluckman. The bus Gang as a team got four, and they were very upsets with me, Michael. So but that was my The other thing was they wanted me to be in that episode. I never did the only thing I ever did on Boy Meets Role. I don't know if you know this. There was one episode where Corey was giving you Topanga a little bear that said I love you very much, and then you guys have broken up, so he was thrown all the stuff away through the teddy bear and the trash capactor.

00:27:39
Speaker 3: I love you very.

00:27:42
Speaker 10: Jazz.

00:27:43
Speaker 2: It was your voice.

00:27:44
Speaker 8: Nice.

00:27:46
Speaker 4: Oh that's so funny.

00:27:48
Speaker 1: Okay, this is going to be a maybe this is a weird question because it's obviously child abuse is something we should all care about. But was there a reason that was so important to you? Did you have a personal attachment to that considering now that we found out you've been pitching it since season one, what was it about that storyline that really you wanted to do so badly?

00:28:10
Speaker 8: You know, I grew up in an affluent neighborhood where a lot of the kids were abused, you know, sexually, physically, emotionally, and her parents were very upstanding people. And didn't know. One of my best friends even killed himself because he'd been abused all his childhood. I knew that it was a and his mother's was a very famous, famous, famous actress. I may I've told someone you about. I don't talk about it publicly, very beloved, but she was horrible to him. So to me, that was something that always haunted me. And you know what I wanted to do even in that episode too, I thought, you know, it's a more adult season this season four. You guys were getting older, so I thought, you know, Corey. It also sprung that story with Corey and Tapango, which was Corey he's not keeping up with his friend and even though he knows, he doesn't know what to do, but he thinks he should be these things. So what really the story for me was Sean Ryder is an adult at the beginning taking care of somebody, but really he's just a kid, and you find that out at the end because he doesn't have the adult solutions.

00:29:17
Speaker 3: He doesn't sources.

00:29:18
Speaker 8: He's fixing it as a kid. And Corey, who seems like a kid emotionally because he doesn't know what to do with the Panga, rises up and becomes the adult, which he did in The Fugitive, which he did in a lot of my others. And that was I was trying to touch back to some of those things because I kind of knew I was getting to the end of my stay on the show, and there were a few things I wanted to tie up and make sure that they kind of were on their way. I wanted to start a college years and I named Pembroke, you know, all that kind of stuff. There were little things that stayed afterwards, but the h you know, I tried to do one every season. I did one on school vandalism, I did one on running away from Home the Fugitive, just issues that would have hit those kids. And the funny story with the Dangerous Secret was so when I finally finished the script, I turn it in and I'm sitting in we were KTLA. I'm in my corner office and Michael's all the way down the hall and Jerlyn comes and goes, Michael wants to talk to you. Great, you know. So I go down the hall.

00:30:17
Speaker 1: And think, talk about let's tell our listeners who Jerylyn is. We I don't think we've ever mentioned Jerylyn on the podcast.

00:30:21
Speaker 8: Carolyn. She's wonderful. Jerlyne was Michael's intrepid assistant.

00:30:27
Speaker 4: She did it, but I don't either.

00:30:29
Speaker 8: I don't even know her name. Softly, it's her name is Jarlyne.

00:30:34
Speaker 4: I know we can all picture, we can all hear it.

00:30:37
Speaker 8: So she comes down. She goes, sure, Mike wants you, okay. So I go down the hall and the only two people it's somber it's going to darken the room, and Bob Young singing sitting in a chair. I can't read them. And Michael's got the script on his desk and he' and he flips it over and he goes, I'm not changing a word. Oh my god, really, that's never I mean, Michael not to fly. This is we're going back all that. But he's on my butt and as we're going, Bob Young grabs my shoulder. Michael, you know, runs down the hall, Bob Young goes, grabs shoulder, goes, it's never gonna.

00:31:16
Speaker 3: How can change words? Page one, line one many shows?

00:31:22
Speaker 8: Trust me, she said, don't get your heart. I'll set the watch. Michael goes, everybody that script this is fantastic. Okay, paid him in.

00:31:34
Speaker 3: The back of my script, and he goes, I don't.

00:31:39
Speaker 4: Even even when it's a perfect script.

00:31:42
Speaker 8: But he ended up basically Michael had to rewrite it, even though he really he changed so little of it that on this one especially, it just was kind of what it was. But he wanted to make sure that nothing was good. And you know what, when I when I watched the shows, I watched all five from season four last night just to kind of refra haven't see him in a while, and uh, you know, I hear I remember bus Gang pitching stuff on my scripts. You know, when you see a script and something maybe people don't understand, your viewers or listeners don't know, is really when you're in the room, the main the first writer really does have a big impact on any script that comes in. But then the route really kind of plays with it and makes it think good and bad.

00:32:23
Speaker 3: You know, it was like a hive mind, right, yeah, yeah, yes, And.

00:32:27
Speaker 8: But you know, and you you do have some you know, I got some cloud toward the end to kind of keep things I liked. Michael would trust me with things. But you know, it was hard. You know, it's it's a it's a you have to kind of check your ego at the door and just go in. And most of the time it got so much better. I mean everybody Buttman and Yawny and Matty Nelson was so great with you know, characters and you know, uh it was it was terrific. And Michael just you know, he just had a magic to him. You know, he could hear it and know it was going to work in that episode most of the time.

00:33:00
Speaker 5: Just looking back, would you do it? Because it seemed like danger secret came exactly when it should have age wise in the script, so our age wives in the show. So looking back, if you had a chance to do it first or second season, would you still have done that or would you have saved it for when it when it showed up.

00:33:16
Speaker 8: I couldn't have done some of the stuff I.

00:33:18
Speaker 2: Did on it, you know, Yeah, that's what I figured.

00:33:20
Speaker 8: Censors were all over that episode. I mean we went in and the first that a little black eye and Michael and I went into makeup and I said, it's got it. It's gotta be shocking when she walks out of the shadows. Yeah, the sensor was there. I mean, they were really on top of this episode because the sex and the violence. You know. Yeah, so, but you know, you just have to talk to them and shame the kind of you know, that's part of being a producer is just getting going. If you're not honest with it, nobody's going to care.

00:33:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about shallow boy Yprum, I mean, other end of the spectrum, just showing your range. In season four, we watched it recently and recapped it and we had Lesha Haley on and we got to talk to her and I just it's truly just to recap for any of our listeners who don't remember. Eric starts dating a highly optimistic musician, but her constant perkiness starts to annoy him. After he dumps her, he finds himself the topic of a scathing hit song on the radio. Meanwhile, Topanga does not like Corey's habit of being pals with kids instead of parenting them. What do you remember about that episode and how do you remember coming to and then eventually hiring Lesha Haley.

00:34:44
Speaker 8: Well, the Lamis Morris had come out and found out, you know, you heard like, who's this guy that she's and it was the guy from like full House.

00:34:53
Speaker 10: Apparently Dahl laughed about that.

00:34:57
Speaker 8: But I thought, what if? And I said, what if we did that? Like Eric meets this girl that writes these little singing songy things and they're all kind of sweet and all this, and he pisses her off basically, and she becomes a Lanis Morisset because she's angry. Michael said, that's your first episode. So that's what And then I don't remember who somebody knew the band, but Blutman and I believe it's just Buttlan and I went to a little club and we went to see Lesha's band that it was just the two women, the Murmurs and the other you know, the other person in the band. The woman the other woman in the band was so drunk that night that she fell off the stage. Like, I'm like, but Lisha was so cool and all that, I said, she's she was just great And I said to her, look you know, have you ever acted? She is not really, but you know I've been wanting to, and so we brought her in. She tested, She was great, and I had written lyrics, you know, again in the room like Hibbert actually came up with the shallow boy title. Oh but he goes make it shallow boy. I just remember, you know, you remember these things wherever. So that's great. So but I'd written a bunch of like really horrible lyrics. It's like Barney would have rejected them. So I said, I was talking to Ray cole Court and she and Alicia, I believe, said maybe she probably told you, but I think she said, I'll just write some music for him, And I went, okay, we'll see what happened. And she came in. They were great, almost too good, you know, it's like and so she just sort of surprised us and blew us away.

00:36:27
Speaker 7: And then did you guys have a separate meeting where she came in and presented the songs or did she just come to the table read with them.

00:36:32
Speaker 8: I don't remember that.

00:36:34
Speaker 5: She would she doesn't either, That's the thing. We're master that and she she couldn't remember. She she thinks she went to somebody's either office or house, and we didn't know if it was maybe your house or Ray cole Court's house. She said there was two or three guys there, and then she went and yeah, recorded them separately for then the track for the episode. But she doesn't remember who was there, or she vaguely remembers you guys coming to the concert because we told her that her partner fell off the stage and of course she lost it.

00:37:02
Speaker 1: She's like, we used to do that a lot back.

00:37:06
Speaker 2: Any number of shows.

00:37:08
Speaker 1: Frankly, I was thinking maybe she'd know exactly which was.

00:37:12
Speaker 5: She was like, no, no, any number of performances.

00:37:16
Speaker 8: So I really enjoyed doing on Boy Meet's World because it was such a male heavy cast. I brought it like I did sister Teresa, I did, you know, uh, different ones with with women characters and then the one affair to forget with the termin matrix and you know, but I always loved to bring in these people because it was fun to you know, I liked when Danielle would play against them because you would get a sense of Danielle with women. You know, it's just another dimension, yea. And however he responded to that stuff. So but you know, the four season was fun for me because it was really a playground. I came back and I just I said, I'm gonna do what I want this year, you know, and Bob really helped me do that, and and Michael allowed me to, so it was well.

00:38:00
Speaker 1: Another thing we've noticed about season four is that we finally had some money. The budget seems to have really gone up.

00:38:08
Speaker 2: The set the show did.

00:38:10
Speaker 4: No we you probably didn't.

00:38:17
Speaker 1: Had a lot of money, but our department, set deck, I mean, the locations, just the yogurt cup alone, it was like, I.

00:38:26
Speaker 4: Mean, truly the budget was great. Do you remember that too?

00:38:30
Speaker 1: Do you remember there being like, oh, we've got some room to play here.

00:38:33
Speaker 8: Always is good to be a hit show because they start throwing money at you, and you know, I always felt, you know, most of my episodes, I wouldn't do that. You know, I wouldn't go to a big swing set or a big thing. So I really I always really like to kind of keep it core and maybe once in a while I bring in somebody bringing the monkeys or something. Okay, it was sweeps. I want to explain that to you guys, because you always go, why did you bring in the Monkeys. So what you do you remember.

00:39:00
Speaker 4: Scott about sweep Sweet? How have we not talked about sweep Sweet?

00:39:08
Speaker 3: Yeah?

00:39:08
Speaker 7: We have because we never know exactly which Also, I don't know did we really understand sweet week or I mean, I don't.

00:39:14
Speaker 3: All I know is that it's a thing that we were all stressed.

00:39:16
Speaker 1: About, you getting your ratings high, and you want to have the highest ratings possible to get.

00:39:22
Speaker 5: Your response why advertisement money?

00:39:26
Speaker 3: Hold on? Who agreed what sweet?

00:39:28
Speaker 8: Like?

00:39:29
Speaker 3: When Sweeps week?

00:39:30
Speaker 7: Like, when did that get Was it just like a cultural like or did the network say we're going to pick this one weeps?

00:39:36
Speaker 3: Mister Sweeps came down with a cigar and said here we go.

00:39:41
Speaker 7: But really, like somebody arbitrarily picked a week and told all the shows, this is the week that we're going to use for as the barometer for every advertiser coming forward yep.

00:39:51
Speaker 8: And then there was another one towards the end of the season, Yeah, we're going to get renewed. So there were all these things going on. So what we we would do We would sort of stunt cast on those weeks sometimes, or we do something really like a big episode or something to watch. So like the Monkeys everybody left to me on that one, and and it was like, I said, guys, you don't I've known Mickey forever and you don't understand what kind of an audience they had and every reason. But I don't know if you guys remember that when we had the monkeys on, we had to turn people away at the door. People there were so many celebrities that came down because the monkeys hadn't been together in a room and ten Yeah, in this big and it's silly on the show kind of you know and like, but it also was a crossover because you get the parents watching.

00:40:38
Speaker 3: It was event television. It was an event.

00:40:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.

00:40:43
Speaker 1: I literally felt like a kid again just talking just here, just being reminded.

00:40:49
Speaker 7: Of sweet little shot of adrenaline throughout your whole body.

00:40:52
Speaker 3: Oh, we got we gotta do good this week.

00:40:54
Speaker 2: We gotta put it on.

00:40:56
Speaker 4: I wonder who's going to be there. I wonder who's going to be a part with the episode.

00:40:58
Speaker 1: Going to be the Do you remember at the end of the year, the stress of the second Sweeps week being about here's the week they decide whether or not we're good enough for another season.

00:41:08
Speaker 5: Are we getting a call from the from the governor a were going to get a reprieve?

00:41:11
Speaker 2: Or is this it is exactly right, we're going Oh.

00:41:14
Speaker 5: Man, I have a question for you, Jeff, because there seemed there seemed to be in season four a concerted effort or at least a discussion that happened somewhere to take the show out of the Matthews living room and put it into the Hunter's trailer or Vader's trailer. I mean, it seemed like they were showing more of those family dynamics than the Matthews family dominat Do you remember this actually being discussed on any level or did this just something that happened organically.

00:41:43
Speaker 8: Well, I always felt bad for Rusty and Betsy because they were so damn good. But you know, it became it became as a began as a family show. So it was. But you guys were getting older and really becoming the stars of the show. And every year they would come and see the new the lay out of the set, and every year the kitchen would get small, living room would get smaller, get pushed aside, right, other things would come. You know, the stories just kind of generated different things. You guys were going out in the world a little bit more. You know, we wanted to that Wilderness Store, which I never totally got, but I think Michael got into like like, you know, wilderness stuff, and he goes next year buying a Wilderness store. I know nothing about it.

00:42:28
Speaker 7: That's so funny because Will and I were just talking last night. We were like, you know, the whe when the Wilderness Store was introduced, it seemed like such a big deal, but actually not much has happened there. No, Like, it was so cool when it started. We all had we had these memories of it, but then we're like, actually, I think there's been like four scenes in the entire scenes never.

00:42:44
Speaker 5: Used this gigantic, expensive set we've used like three times.

00:42:47
Speaker 8: I never understood it myself, but it was I thought, you know, it would give rise to to Eric and Alan's stories because they hadn't had a lot of them, so yeah, looking together. But we didn't really go to that a lot, right, So but you know, it was, uh anyway, that that's okay.

00:43:06
Speaker 1: I wanted to I have a few little housekeeping things regarding some credits that I want to talk about.

00:43:12
Speaker 4: Can you explain the credit situation.

00:43:14
Speaker 1: For why Affair to Forget has as like a teleplay credit.

00:43:19
Speaker 8: Yeah, that I got teleplay well in the Room. That was one of the stories that I had pitched. It actually happened to me. I played poker with these guys and one of the guys was getting a divorce and we all hated his wife. We just couldn't we couldn't get couldn't stand her. So he came one night and he was like kind of he was drinking a little and he said, yeah, we're breaking up, and we all went like, I tell you, but boy, she was miss you did yeah, next poker game, he comes back and he seems happy and we go so everything goes, yeah, we're back together, and he told her she just and we were all like, you know, it was it was and ended up not being together, but it was awkward for well. So anyway, so I pitched that in the Room and there was a new writer that season, iven O'Hare, who I only vaguely remember. She wasn't there that long. So I pitched a bunch of stuff and two of my stories I think it was ready to be I don't know when it was in the season, but I pitched a couple and Michael said, I'm giving that story to Eileen because she had pitched some stuff they didn't buy. Said, all right, you know that's how it worked in the room, you give it. So I said, fine, that's great, and she went and wrote a draft I think, and then disappeared and he didn't come back, and it was she wrote it. She wrote an outline that Michael didn't like, and then we helped her with it. And then she went back and I think wrote a draft, or maybe she just did the I don't remember, but she did. I think she just couldn't handle it or it was too much pressure. I don't know what happened to her. She very nice, I just don't remember what. It was a little bit like you guys had with like minks, like people would just disappear and you'd never know what happened.

00:44:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:45:00
Speaker 8: So anyway, so Michael said, sure and take it back and you just write it was your episode anyway. So I wrote it. So we went through the arbitration and I didn't really fight it a whole lot because I didn't know what her situation was, and she had written the outline first, you know. Great. Yeah, so I got the teleplay, so I wrote the script and it was actually my story to start with.

00:45:19
Speaker 5: So it seems like other than Susan Jansen, women didn't seem to last very long in the writer's room.

00:45:27
Speaker 8: Well, you know that's true with most writer rooms at the time. You know, it was a different one. And if you looked at most writer rooms, they were mostly male heavy.

00:45:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think still the percentage of male comedy writers even now, there's a lot more working male writers than there are women writers. And if you think about being a new writer very similarly to being a guest star, and you think about being a new writer coming into an established writing room where everyone knows each other, everyone knows Michael, everyone one knows the quirks and the politics, and you're one of maybe the only woman. I don't no matter what you're in, I don't. I don't know how warm it's ever gonna feel walking into those situations.

00:46:14
Speaker 8: You know, the best person who ever walked in that room of all, Susan was great. I mean, Susan really had it down and she did her stuff. But Judy Toll Judy was amazing. Yes I missed so great because she Bludman will kill me for this, But Bluckman used to be so annoyed by her because she would come in with shopping bags and she'd start showing the stuff that she'd bought.

00:46:38
Speaker 4: And she was doing halls. She was doing shopping halls before they were a thing.

00:46:43
Speaker 8: I did to piss mark off she and like, I was just so enjoying watching her do that stuff. So at the time, it was just kind of fun to play with people. But she just didn't care, and she was just so funny, and so she.

00:46:57
Speaker 2: Was funny as hell. Judy Toll, what is a hall?

00:47:01
Speaker 6: A hall?

00:47:02
Speaker 1: You do them online where influencers or want to be influencers come in with their shopping halls. They've just gone, they've gone shopping, they haven't now a bunch of things and then they unbag them for you and they show you the things that they got. So like you could just pick one store. I'm going to do a Target hall, and here's all the stuff I bought a Target and then you try it on, like look, hocket, this little sweater is all Target.

00:47:23
Speaker 4: And you just show people the things you bought.

00:47:25
Speaker 1: So she was literally doing it specifically to annoy Bluffman, and now she's my hero.

00:47:33
Speaker 5: It would have worked on me because that sounds like, hell, that's Will's hell.

00:47:38
Speaker 2: I'm not to sit there and watch people try it. All the clothes they bought somewhere.

00:47:41
Speaker 8: And the funny thing was season four, you know, Blubmen and bus Gang were having little issues too, so Busgang was cracking up too because it just really pissed Mark off because he just wanted to get going. So it was really fun.

00:47:54
Speaker 1: Another script I want to ask you about and the shooting experience and all that is singled Out. Yes, oh that singled Out was written by Steve Hibbert and again it's Eric Lands a spot on MTV's dating show singled Out.

00:48:07
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, Corey has his tonsils taken out.

00:48:11
Speaker 1: What do you remember about that episode and shooting that and all that, well, you.

00:48:16
Speaker 8: Know, singled out, not that you know Jenny McCarthy and that was the kind of the They were talking about a show and I was, you know, talking to me and stuff anyway, but they we went down there and Jenny wouldn't be on the show. Why Chris Hardwick his name, Yeah, Chris wanted to do it, and I actually I pitched Chris. I said, you should be on television, man, you should be like doing like a sitcom. You have that kind of vibe to him. Yeah, but so I think that was one of Ben's final weeks. And so Ben thought certain episodes Ben had finals, and they were very serious about him, and he's very serious about his school, as you know, and so we would give him a lighter episode that he could shoot just kind of on you know, on his own time. And then we went down to the singled out location.

00:49:05
Speaker 3: You don't remember this at all, Oh boy, I.

00:49:07
Speaker 8: Remember it was whid I kind of kind of it was. It was pretty wild. I mean, Jenny was there. I remember she touched my knee. I was like, very excited about that.

00:49:17
Speaker 4: Why wouldn't she do Boy Meets World?

00:49:19
Speaker 8: I don't know. I think she.

00:49:20
Speaker 2: Used it, she believe it.

00:49:22
Speaker 8: It was it was probably too young for her. She was trying to get her own sitcom. She was trying to branch out right. So it was like but but Chris was all into it. Chris loved it so and he was fun. I don't remember much more about it than that. Honestly, I was there.

00:49:38
Speaker 4: You know, Jenny McCarthy touched your knee.

00:49:40
Speaker 1: You were definitely there, and that's where these touched my knee.

00:49:45
Speaker 8: That's about.

00:49:47
Speaker 7: There was Jenny McCarthy there when you guys were actually filming the scenes and she was.

00:49:51
Speaker 8: Shooting their show and we went in. They had didn't they have an audience? I don't.

00:49:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, we used no hear the audience.

00:49:57
Speaker 1: There was no audience. They're they're background actors like they were cast.

00:50:01
Speaker 8: Yeah, but it was kind of there while they were shooting, so we kind of came in for a little while while I think is what happened?

00:50:09
Speaker 3: Wow, that sounds wresting.

00:50:11
Speaker 8: It was fun too. That was just a madhouse. But you know, the magic of season four. I have to say one thing is Jeff McCracken. Oh yeah, you know, I could throw anything out. If you look at my five episodes, it kind of filled the spectrum of the type of Boymise World shows who did all through the show throw anything at Jeff McCracken. And if it was the broad calm, it was an affair to forget and you know, the bromance stuff, or if it was you know, dangerous secret with the sensitive stuff and the dramatic scenes. That guy is such a great direct I mean wonderful. I love his stuff. But man, that guy, I hope he still directs. I don't even know, but you know, he and I were the two that went over to do you wish from the show, and and Susan came to actually and we all regretted that, but uh, that's.

00:50:59
Speaker 1: But no, Jeff was definitely one of the people who made that secret sauce for season four.

00:51:06
Speaker 5: We were so comfortable with him and he made everything so easy that whatever material came down, we knew we were okay.

00:51:13
Speaker 2: It's like you got him there. So it was Yeah, it made a huge difference. You could tell, just as actors.

00:51:17
Speaker 5: And it was writer who really pointed out, especially for me at the beginning, where it was the whole first season, I just wasn't comfortable as an actor, and I was starting to feel a little more second season, and then there'd be a third or even a second or third season episode that all of a sudden, I'd be uncomfortable again.

00:51:33
Speaker 2: And writer was like, well, look who directed it, and it just wasn't Jeff mccracket. So you could tell. I mean, it really makes a huge difference.

00:51:39
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, he really got it and just good all around, good with your You know, you felt a writer handing the script to Jeff mcca you felt you were in good hands, so yeah, yeah, always, and the runthroughs were good from the beginning, so you know everything.

00:52:04
Speaker 1: Something else that's coming up for us in season four that we haven't gotten to yet is that mister Turner is leaving. Do you have any insight for us about why Tony was going to be gone?

00:52:18
Speaker 8: You know what I think happened, guys, is as the show went, it really evolved, you know, and the audience evolved with you. If you think about it, the kids that were watching were the same age as you at the time when it first came. We were a little older maybe or a little younger watching to see what was going to happen to them. But everything evolved, and so what happens is you start getting out of maybe a classroom, and you start getting out of you know, those kind of stories. And really, you know, I do think there was a push because Friends was so big and you guys were becoming like young friends that if you look at the new song they put the next year that was supposed that was Friends. I mean everything about that I was gone at that point, but but you know, they were trying to do that. So having a teacher there made you, guys, look, you know, mister was he was in the in the mix because he was the neighbor and he could be there, and that Tony was kind of there for you being in the classroom, and then why would you you know?

00:53:12
Speaker 1: So well, yeah, and I mean I guess we should have probably thought about that too, in the sense that we've mentioned and well even mentioned in this podcast. He asked you, it was very obvious we were getting out of our normal sets. They were clearly world building. Boy Meet's world was like, we need to see them meet more world. We've seen the Matthew's house, We've seen the school. Let's see other people's houses. Let's see.

00:53:37
Speaker 4: So you're right that it.

00:53:40
Speaker 1: Does only make sense that as the kids, as we were all aging up, you had more opportunities to put us in situations where it wasn't the same old sets where we felt like kids.

00:53:52
Speaker 4: And I don't think I thought about that until you just said it.

00:53:55
Speaker 8: Yeah, it just it was aging up, and you know, and you guys, you guys were also every time you come back from hiatus, you were like ten years older, it seemed, you know.

00:54:04
Speaker 1: So I know, so it was good to us, it.

00:54:09
Speaker 2: Was just smoking For me, it was just aging me. Exponentially.

00:54:12
Speaker 1: Will was actually aging every five years, it was, but.

00:54:19
Speaker 8: It was, you know, it was I felt that the season was the best of the four that I was on, not just because I'd written a lot of them, but I just felt there was a vibe in that room that just really a lot of it was Bob yond, a lot of it was that there's just a certain chemistry to each room, every year different and and I just felt like, I don't care what anybody else thinks. I'm just gonna write the ones I want now. So that was those were the five that year.

00:54:43
Speaker 5: Really, Now, do you a terrible question, because time is what time is, But looking back, would you have stayed?

00:54:49
Speaker 8: I don't think I could have because there was a dynamic there in the room that I just couldn't I couldn't handle anymore. And I knew it it was going to be me or it was going to be blood in the bus game and and and again, we're all really good friends, it was, and it was just at that point, you know, there were a lot of things. They were having issues with each other and it would come out on me sometimes and it's just not when it's not fun anymore. I mean, I'm surprised with me when I went through the first season with all the all the constantly having a guillotine over my neck, that I was able to be as funny as I was. But this season I felt like I had I kind of had my I was.

00:55:33
Speaker 4: I was I hadn't you edgainst the wall?

00:55:36
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I was just I was fine, you know, I didn't. I didn't worry about it. And and then I really, you know, I was upset because I had started working with some of the writers on you know what we were going to do the next year, and then and then blubbing the bus game came back and I went, I got get out. It won't be good if they're on top of me. Don't I have to prove my stories to them? I don't. I didn't think I could do the time. So we were even friendly in the room, but I just felt dynamically it just wasn't sure. We're all the sort of the same place, so we had to It was them.

00:56:08
Speaker 5: But you said a lot of the stuff that you pitched for that then made it into seasons five, six and seven, right, I mean stuff that you would help to lay the groundwork for.

00:56:16
Speaker 8: You know, I thought of Penbrook.

00:56:19
Speaker 4: You know, oh that was the name.

00:56:21
Speaker 8: Yeah, I just in the college I had. I was actually the one. I was friendly with Bonnie and Bill, Bill Daniels and Bonnie Bartlett because I'd gone up to their house like Will did and and uh so I had hung with them and we talked about getting Eric into college, and I wanted to have a scene with the dean, and I said, wouldn't it be great if Bonnie played the dean and that they Yeah, so we had that line where Bill comes up at the end and he goes, you know that Dean Bolander. You know she's been after me for you know. It was a little fun kind of joke. But I went to her and said, would you consider doing that? Just I don't know, I'd have to ask Bill if he wants me on the show. And then Bill they she came on and did it. Michael so cool, But it just it just seemed kind of like a fun thing to do. But I kind of I felt like, you know, uh, you know, mister Feenie's last line on that last episode. I watched the last today, I cried, we.

00:57:13
Speaker 1: Haven't seen it, don't spoiler alert, don't tell us we will We'll we'll we'll see it soon. I want to give you an opportunity to tell us all about one of your newest ventures. You are joining us in the podcast space. Why don't you talk to us about your podcast.

00:57:29
Speaker 8: It's the seventh sign of the apocalypse, because I'm I said that that was the be the first sign. But yeah, I you know, listening to your podcast, you know, I really I listened to yours. I listened to Phil Rosenthal's and David Wilds. I listened to a few, but I love yours. And what I've really loved is you know, the the Harley Hero do my Harley shirt again?

00:57:53
Speaker 2: Yes, the Harley Reveal.

00:57:55
Speaker 6: Yes.

00:57:56
Speaker 8: But I loved when you guys started talking really deeply with people, you know, not just the recaps, which are nice and it's interesting for me and I love sometimes it's a little painful, but I loved when you guys would get with like with Danny and Ethan and you know, Blake and both Blake's and and I started thinking, like, you know, I know a lot of people. I've been in the business for since I got out of UCLA Film School, so I've known a lot of people. I've worked with a lot of people and I know them on person, you guys, and so I thought that's interesting. But I don't know, I don't I don't think I really want to be on air. I was. I was this squishy bear in the trash compactor. That's me in an area, So I went. I was a judge at the Poppy Jasper Film Festival up north, it's near Silicon Valley last year, and I was on a panel with this amazing woman that came from Lucasfilm in Paramount. She was head of international marketing for George Lucas and I had to follow her on a panel and go, oh my, she's so brilliant.

00:59:00
Speaker 3: Well let's talk about the Monkeys Star Wars. Sure, but monkeys so hey.

00:59:08
Speaker 8: So so her name is Norma Garcia. And Norman and I started talking and we just we both were like kind of kindred spirits about film and we're both we both mentored a lot, and we're philanthropic. I've been doing a lot of philanthropic work with two of the officers that testified before Congress that defended the Capitol on January sixth. So I've been doing a lot of that stuff all my life. I do a lot of stuff and she does too. She's a mentor through a program and and so she was working at a company and she did some business in Barcelona. And there's this guy who runs the biggest cinema room they call it the movie room.

00:59:50
Speaker 2: You know, home theater system theater systems.

00:59:53
Speaker 8: He builds them all through Europe for like billionaires and things like that, and his name is rich Red and they and he comes from the technical side and all that stuff. But he said to her, I want to do a podcast. She said, I'll do it if this other guy, I'll do it with us. And she called me so I didn't want to do it, and she said, look, we all want to do it, and it'll have a filanthropic aspect to it, a mentoring thing. It's a chance for you to mentor on a broad scale. And I went, that's great. So what we've done is we kind of taken your model in a way with board, but in talking to people, and it's more. It goes deeper than just your as you know, you guys have all been on now and we've had we've done twenty two of them so far.

01:00:34
Speaker 9: Wow.

01:00:34
Speaker 8: Great, there ready, Mickey Dolans, Nancy Allen, Terry Nunn. I worked on a movie called Up the Creek years ago. It was a big college movie when everybody was drunk at a college watching animal House. They put my movie on afterwards, so became kind of a weird poke classic that nobody really remembers because they were really drunk at the time. I reassembled a lot of the living cast and we did a forty year reunion and we interviewed three of the officers that testified before Congress, the one the January sixth committee. So but our way in is talking through you guys know you're on. But we talked about film and different things, but then you get into your passions and how you give back. What we do at the end of our podcast is we ask, and you guys all know this, We ask if there's a person, cause or charity that you you know, support and you'd like to talk about. You all beautifully did it. And then what we do is we put it up on our website so people can go, oh, here's Wilford ELL's charity, here's writers or Danielle's and they can find out about it or participate or donate.

01:01:35
Speaker 3: And then Disney Plus cuts it out.

01:01:37
Speaker 4: So yeah, you to find the PSN.

01:01:42
Speaker 8: So we're doing a lot of stuff, you know. The the idea is I always wanted to My dream always to be was to be Walt Disney. That was, you know, because I'd met him when I was a little kid. But I never really wanted to be that corporate and big. But this is sort of my way because these are the projects that are uplifting. Spiraling upward is my kind of my mantra. And so it's things that will lift you and teach you and bring people together. So that's that company. And then I have another company which is called Sherman Brothers and Sons. And I started that with my cousin Greg, who we did that documentary for Disney called The Boys. The Sherman Brothers Story heres. It's fifteen years now and you guys came to that to the premiere, but I have pictures. But with Sherman Brothers and Sons, basically what we're doing is Greg and I teamed up with Mitchell Leeb, who used to be the head of Disney Music. He was there for thirty years and he retired and we got together and talked and he said, you know, your dad and uncle wrote a thousand published songs, they did fifteen plus movies. All that stuff's gathering dust. Let's do something with it. So we're doing a bunch of stuff, and of course it's really exciting. I can't obviously talk about any of it right now.

01:02:58
Speaker 4: This is great to bring up.

01:02:59
Speaker 8: Then we have several talk we're in talks with Disney about several real you'll hear about them. They're really cool, but I'm not allowed to talk about.

01:03:08
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, then don't talk about it.

01:03:10
Speaker 2: We've got awesome stuff that we can't talk.

01:03:12
Speaker 4: About, so many awesome things.

01:03:14
Speaker 2: I can't even tell you how awesome I am. Literally I can't tell you.

01:03:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what I mean, but you're going to know about it eventually.

01:03:22
Speaker 8: Well, I love all you guys. Great.

01:03:24
Speaker 1: Jeff, we love you so much, and you have been when we talk about what what was the ingredients that go into the secret sauce? That A season four? Your scripts and you are definitely one of them. And we thank you as always for spending your time with us today, answering our questions, phil giving us some so insightful. Really great to have you so we we appreciate you so much. We love you. You're welcome back. Anytime, and thank you for joining us.

01:03:49
Speaker 8: Thank you. Bring have several of the writers come on at once. That'd be funny.

01:03:54
Speaker 1: Yeah right, God, imagine imagine a zoom with nine of us.

01:04:02
Speaker 3: We already talk over each other too much. I can't imagine, Like.

01:04:06
Speaker 4: I don't want to be the only woman on that zoom.

01:04:11
Speaker 3: You just start doing a hall you just you just come in. Have you seen this that?

01:04:17
Speaker 4: I just look at this. It's skincare. Thanks je.

01:04:26
Speaker 6: By.

01:04:27
Speaker 1: Always so fun to talk to him. I love his insights. I can't believe we never really thought about the idea that for Turner leaving.

01:04:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes total sense now you know it does.

01:04:38
Speaker 8: Well.

01:04:38
Speaker 7: What's funny is that I remembered, and we talked about this. I remembered he was brought on to add a friends like component. But then as we aged up, yeah, we became because and it is true, like what we're doing all these dating episodes for instance, So how is Turner going to be involved in like our dating life without it being creepy or weird or like cross seeing the signals between teaching and it's like right, in a weird way, we got too close to the.

01:05:05
Speaker 3: Twenty somethings exactly, you know, which he was. Yeah.

01:05:07
Speaker 5: So when you think about it too, though, it makes perfect sense with the natural progression of how you grow as a person because it is all about school and everything that happens in your school life when you're a middle twelve, and when it starts to get older, it's more about what happens outside of school.

01:05:23
Speaker 9: Yeah.

01:05:23
Speaker 5: So in that sense, they really were keeping it kind of real, and it is true every time we essentially are cutting to the classroom, which is rare, we're seeing Tony, we're just not cutting to the classroom anymore.

01:05:36
Speaker 3: And it's also like it's it's there for a very cool component of like introducing a literary device or a reference point, but to see a whole scene play out like at the school, it's difficult, you know, and even think about janitor Dad. It's like bringing in a family dynamic to the school to sort of show how crazy you know it's really. Yeah, it's like the center narratively, the center of the show is changing, right. The center show.

01:06:01
Speaker 7: Was the living room in the classroom, and now it has to move around a little bit.

01:06:05
Speaker 2: That's what I was gonna say.

01:06:06
Speaker 5: It used to be almost like what happened in the family set up what they were going to learn in school, and then it became what happened in school is setting up what's going to happen in their life.

01:06:14
Speaker 2: Wow, well so that's kind of interesting.

01:06:17
Speaker 5: How but yeah, until your I said, felt the same way, Danielle, until he said it like that, it's like, well, of course, I don't know why none of us one.

01:06:23
Speaker 4: Of us thought of that.

01:06:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, really really great. And also sweeps.

01:06:28
Speaker 3: How sweep.

01:06:32
Speaker 7: Because it's such a weird thing and it's outdated now you would never Yeah, but man, do.

01:06:37
Speaker 4: We have podcast sweeps Week?

01:06:40
Speaker 2: Is there such a thing?

01:06:41
Speaker 6: I don't know what's like?

01:06:43
Speaker 1: One, let's do this, guys, let's listen if we can just arbitrarily decide we just a show.

01:06:49
Speaker 3: With party hats and noisemakers and the.

01:06:51
Speaker 1: Week challenge all of the other podcasts do better everything your best week? Who can get the most downloads, who can get the biggest guests?

01:07:02
Speaker 2: Wow, it's a great idea. It should start in the eleventh well, of course, because.

01:07:06
Speaker 5: We are we can use the eleventh to start Sweeps special.

01:07:12
Speaker 1: Thank you again to Jeff Sherman for coming on. I'd like to remind you all the website where you can check out information about his podcast and all other things Nurjmediagroup dot com. Thank you all for joining us for this episode of Podmeets World. As always, you can follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us your emails pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com, and we have merch.

01:07:33
Speaker 4: Pod Meets World Merch Hall.

01:07:35
Speaker 1: Yay Podmeets Worldshow dot com writer send us out.

01:07:41
Speaker 3: We love you all, pod dismissed.

01:07:44
Speaker 7: Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast producer hosted by Danielle Fischel, Wilfridell and Ryder Straw Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tarasubasch producer, Maddie.

01:07:57
Speaker 3: Moore engineer and Boy Meets World Superman. Listen out.

01:08:00
Speaker 7: Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at Podmets World Show, or email us at podmetsworldshowat gmail dot com.

01:08:12
Speaker 8: M