Christine Vester: Humanity Over Handcuffs: Protecting Autistic Lives in Legal Battles

Welcome to Why Not Me the World? Podcast hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join
us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will
make you laugh, some will make your cry. Real life
people who will inspire and show that you are not
alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me The World?
Humanity of a Handcuffs the Silent Crisis special event. Joining
us today is Christine Vester. She founded Humanity over Handcuffs
with the initiative of breaking the silence on the crisis
facing autistic and neurodiverse individuals in the justice system. Through
expert insights and a call for compassion over punishment, she
is leading the charge to transform lives and systems. She
joins us today as we explore her mission to put
humanity first and why her work matters to us. All.
Thanks for coming on.
Thank you, TONI, thank you for having me.
You you're the founder of Humanity over Handcuffs, a national
advocacy effort focused on protecting autistic individuals in the justice system.
Can you share what the movement is and why it
was so important for you to create it.
Humunity over Handcuffs is still in the early stages, but
it's already become a lifeline for families because of your
podcast and the platform and everyone that's joined in for
the sixty day project. It was born from the realization
that autistic individuals are being misunderstood, criminalized, and abandoned by
a system that really should be helping them. We're building
more than a movement. We're building a future, a place
where families can find support, legal tools, and resources and
bridge that gap. Our website is currently being developed and
will be a centralized hub where families can access vital information,
connect with families, connect with advocates, and find real solutions.
It's just the beginning. We're laying a strong foundation to
create real change.
That's a list of very important things for people to
have access to. Now, what are some of the common
dynamics that can happen when police respond to a call
involving someone this autistic.
Unfortunately, what often happens is an autistic individual is really misunderstood.
When an autistic person is in distress, especially when an
officer is coming and they're not aware that they're autistic.
Quich I always say, when you're making a phone called
the police, make sure you let them know. Their behaviors
may look unusual to a police officer. Noncompliant, lack of
eye contact, shutdowns, even sensory overload can be misread as
aggression or defiant when they're really not. We as a
family know our children, know our loved ones when they're autistic.
We live it, breathe it, and experience it all day.
Some police officers are not educated in this area. What's
really happening is the brain is really overwhelmed and their
sensory overload is just like it's firing off.
So how to family seeking support wind up battling the
legal system? What happened? What caused this outcome to escalate
into something they didn't plan on having to do?
The system treats neurological differences like a criminal behavior, and
that has to change.
We have to do better.
We see it in the news every day, and you know,
we have judges in attorneys and house representatives and families
coming forward on this podcast. So I really hope that
the prosecutors and judges really listen to this.
So when a family calls for help, they do it
for the right reasons, but then it can go in
a way that they never saw a coming.
Exactly.
They don't call expecting that they're going to get a
criminal record.
They don't expect you know. I hate to say this,
but sometimes guns get drawn at them.
They're looking for help, protection and understanding, and they're met
with the system not prepared. And I'm not anti police.
There are some really good police officers out there. Unfortunately,
you hear it in the news. There's things that happen.
You know that the trains are really trying to push
for better training at a straight level, and it should
be on a federal level. Just as if they were
carrying their fire arms, they can't go out until they
fully trained. It should be the same way with autistic
individuals and mental health. There should be a training because
once that first moment turns into a and unrest, it's
hard to reverse that damage.
It could be life or death.
And even to an officer that's in that position and
something tragic happens, they go home to their family and.
They have to live with this too. It we have
to do better.
I speak with families across the country consistently, and unfortunately,
this is not a regional situation, it's a national one.
It is we're seeing it at a local, state, and
federal level, from police intercept in a state courts, in
the federal courts, autistic individuals are arrested basically for their behaviors,
not because they're dangerous, but because the system misreads their needs.
This isn't about intent, it's about misunderstanding, and we need
a national response. And that's why I'm so grateful you're
giving the families and the attorneys and house representatives, ci
T trainers a platform to talk about this.
If after everything is said and done and arrest happens,
what are the things that the family will be facing
when all this starts.
Families enter into a legal system that doesn't often understand
autism at all.
That's what I've found.
I've been in the courtrooms, I've talked to the families,
I've watched how this is all playing out. Prosecutors, judges,
even defense attorneys aren't always trained in how autism affects
communication or their behaviors. Are intent behind it. They're not
career criminals, they have a disability. The gap leads to
harmful assumptions in a courtroom, and that's dangerous. Autistic people
may struggle to answer questions clearly. They might stem avoid
you know, eye contact, or become non verbal under pressure.
But the system you know, thinks it's a suspicious behavior
or disrespectful or uncooperative. It's a complete unfair lens. I
know some that we hear stories about that they think
that they're being aggressive when they're really distressed and they're
trying to calm their self down.
From what I've heard, the court system sometimes gives the
autistic individual a real disadvantage. It can feel very punishing
and of course very overwhelming to them.
Yes, and families are forced to educate at every step
of the level. I've seen cases where autism wasn't even
mentioned at the mitigation factor, or where lawyers refuse to
even bring in experts forensic psychologists. Then individual then is
treated like a typical defendant, when that process is really
different for an autistic individual. They process the world entirely different.
That's why Humanity over Handcuffs is trying to step in
the movement the series that we're doing.
This can be so overwhelming for the parents involved. Where
do you step in with your charity to help those families.
We support families by helping them advocate more effectively, connect
the gaps, work with professionals and understand autism, and educate
the legal teams.
But we go further than that.
We work directly with the legal teams to change the
culture from inside. Like I said, we're working with the
judges that or coming on. We're working with house representatives,
We're working with legislation cit trainers.
So even though you're trying to help the families get
through this whole ordeal, you're still out there working to
try and actually reform the whole legal system itself.
Yes, exactly. We speak to judges, attorneys, and prosecutors. They're
coming onto your show and being a boys about how
autism affects perception, behavior, and intent.
I use the word perception a lot in my business
because perception is everyone's reality, whether it's true or not.
So what's true is that in the legal system, an
autistic person is completely different and because of that needs
to be treated as such. Can't be treated the same
way as others.
This isn't about leniency, it's about justice, and we've got
to do better. You can't treat someone the same as
a neurotypical definant career criminal and call it fair if
they experience reality in a completely different way, which with
autistic individuals they do.
And when we treat it like.
This, we end up punishing people for how their brain works,
for their disability, not for a real danger they've caused.
Autism deserves informed understanding, not incarceration.
Let's focus on something that's a little more concerning to
the families, and that's incarceration. What are some of the
challenges an autistic person faces when they're incarcerated. What are
some of the difficult situations they might come into while
they're in there? And then how is it to interact
with not only just the prisoners, but the guards that
are there.
Oh, when they become incarcerated, prison is really harsh. It
could be a death sentence. We've talked to families and
it's heartbreaking. It's chaotic. It's a chaotic for an autistic person.
It can be traumatizing, not only for the person that's
in the facility, but for the families because they're told
there's nothing they can do, which is not true.
You have to advocate really hard.
There's noise, it's lights, the movement lights, flickering, lack of control,
sensory overloads, strict routines, shouting. It's a nightmare scenario. Autistic
individuals may have meltdowns and withdrawal completely. They might be
punished for the behaviors that are actually signs of distress,
and it's really hard for an officer or a correctional
officer to really understand.
Yeah, and I've also heard that sometimes they can be
put into solitary confinement that must really affect them as well.
Solitary confinement don't get me started on this is often
used because they have to separate them sometimes, which can
do so much harm on them.
What about the staff and of course the other inmates
as well.
Staff may not understand the needs of someone with the
development is ability, and other inmates may actually target them,
use them because they're so naive, and even rape them.
And I know we don't like to say this, but
it happens.
I've heard that the prison system is very, very rough
on autistic individuals. So can you expand on some of
the things that affect them, And even after they're ultimately released, it.
Is very damaging and it doesn't stop there when someone's released.
After they've been incarcerated, they're expect to re enter into
a world that hasn't changed and without the support they need.
Probation rules may be too rigid, you know. Services are scattered. Housing,
employment are nearly impossible to secure with a record. If
some of them get a felony, which could be a
life sentence to them, families are left picking up the
pieces to survive, wondering, you know, if they die, who's
going to take care of them? That is a real fear,
you know, and some parents can't sleep at night. Some
of the judges we've talked to and c they have
autistic individuals. These are real things, yes, and they have
those fears as well.
Yeah, that seems like a very very tough situation. It
almost seems like it's a second sentence in a very
different way.
Yes, it's like a second sentence. That's why we're fighting
for change at every stage, from the arrest to the courtroom,
to incarceration to re entry. There has to be diversion programs.
They just have to do better. We want to have
continuing care, education for correctional staff, and real pathways back
into the community that respect neurodiversity.
Now, I know you have a website, Can you expand
and give us a little more information on how people
can find you.
We're developing a website that will be a one stop
resource hub for families, connecting them with attorneys, mental health professionals,
helping with the diversion programs, re entry planning. Yes, it'll
offer links, documents, supporting and training guides all focus on
autism and justice reform.
That's great information. It gives the person an avenue to
look for help if they need it, and hopefully they
never do.
And none of this would be possible without the people
walking alongside of us doing this sixty day podcast series.
All the judges and attorneys and House representatives that have
come forward to talk about what's happening in the system.
And I want to thank each and every one of them.
The judges who have opened up their courtrooms to change.
They have the one in Nevada. It's a whole court,
one of a kind. It's all for autistic individuals. But
that's a telling sign that it's becoming more prevalent in
a state and federal level. The House representatives who are
listening and helping to move legislation forward. The CIIT trainers
who are educating fiercely the officers out there to respond
with compassion and de escalate the Bureau of Prison. You know,
we've spoke to them for a safer space, you know,
for autistic individuals. And then the families who speak, I
encourage them to bridge that gap with their representatives and
attorneys and judges and prosecutors and share their story. It's
the only way to bridge that gap and remind the
world that isn't just policy, it's personal.
These are human beings. We're going to look.
Back ten years from now and say, what were we
thinking putting someone with autism having that kind of disability,
giving them that kind of sentence.
It could be a death sentence. And it's really tough.
Because I think if you've been in this environment and
understand it, it's harsh and it's devastating, and we have
to do better. There has to be another way of
doing this. It's common sense.
Yes, I agree. Common sense is very important. Now in closing,
give our listeners something that you think is very important
that they need to hear about what you're trying to do.
The biggest thing that I hope that everyone takes away
from this is you're not alone. You're not powerless when
they tell you there's nothing you can do. I encourage
bage families, lawyers, judges, please get involved. Please listen to
the podcast, Please listen to the families. Our children are
not broken, these individuals are not broken. Autism is not
a crime, and it should never be treated like one.
Keep speaking, keep advocating, and know that humanity over handcuffs
is right here fighting with you the shift the system
and to remind what justice should really look like.
And that's humanity. First. We've got to have some compassion.
We've got to do better because what we just heard
in the news lately happening to an autistic individual.
Nobody wants to hear that.
We don't want it to become a tragedy before something changed.
Yes, I agree. Well, this has been great, great conversation,
great information. I really appreciate you taking the time to
come on.
Thank you, Tony.
We're just getting started, and thank you from the bottom
of my heart. Were being a voice for millions, actually
being a voice for the judges and attorneys and CIIT
trainers and Bureau of Prison.
It's been my pleasure. Sure, thanks again, Thanks for taking
the time out of your busy schedule to listen to
our show today. We hope that you enjoyed it as
much as we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you
know anyone that would like to tell us their story,
send them to tonymantor dot com contact then they can
give us their information so one day they may be
a guest on our show. One more thing we ask
tell everyone everywhere about why not me? The world, the
conversations we're having, and the inspiration our guests give to
everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this world.