#268 – Bobby + Eddie’s Music School: CMA Award Facts You Didn’t Know! + Why An Artist Needs A Manager with Tom Lord + Jaime Lynn Spears On Zoey 101 Reboot

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Speaker 1: Welcome to episode to We'll do c M A Award Facts you didn't know remembering Jerry Jeff Walker, Tom Lord on what goes into artists management? Maybe something you heard about but you didn't know much about. Jamie Lynn Spears is on this but it's all about music. Let's start with new music this week. Here are the five that I'm like, oh, this is pretty cool. First up, Bush released a new album. You would know them from their old song. Here's one of them, Glycerine. If you're new at the guitar, you probably learned this because it's the four chords over and over and over that are very easy to do. But they put out the Kingdom Deluxe Edition with this song Heroes, which is a tribute to David Bowie. It's a David Bowie song. Here you go, we can be Heroes. Just what number four? I'm putting little Christmas music here. Brett Eldredge and Kelly Clarkson released a new Christmas duet called Under the Missile Too. Thing I've tried to keep you from gettings who works since I'll let's see your face. Speaking of Christmas, Hoodie and the Blowfish and special guests, Abigail Hodges have released a new holiday theme track called Won't Be Home for Christmas at number three. We will talk on the phone, but you won't be home for Christmas. That's cool. We have got on our side, but we want to be home for Christmas. Man, maybe I should made that number one. That's good. Cam has a new album called Other Side. Here's the song you may have heard that it's already from it, called Classic I Want. And here's a brand new song called like a Movie from Cam's new album that's out today right still and a number one. I gotta put our guest today. Jamie Lynn Spears she released Following Me. It's a reimagined version of the Zoe one on one theme song, and we'll talk to her coming up. Here's the clip of that. Now. I'm not gonna listen to this myself, but I love Jamie Lynd Spears. Her and I've been friends for a long time. She's back with Zoe one on one and uh she's on the podcast. So I don't wanted to hear this back and not have her at number one, you know. Kip More also as an honorable mention, released announce he's releasing Wild World Deluxe in February, which featured his song She's Mine. It's got four new songs, including one that's out now. It's called Don't Go Changing. As far as albums go, whind On A Judd put out her recollection ZP five new songs. Ariana Grande has a new album called Positions. Elvis Costello has a new album Google Dolls. It's Christmas all over. The Google Dolls are back at nineties Christmas, and that would be like early two thousands Christmas. I guess like it's a two thousand one Christmas with the Google Dolls. Tory Kelly has a Christmas album. Joni Mitchell has Archives Volume one, nineteen sixty seven. There's a Stevie Nicks live in concert out today. Sam Smith, Megan Trainer has a Very Megan Trainer Christmas, a Very Trainer Christmas. So a lot of Christmas stuff coming out now, as far as news goes. Billy Joe Shaver, pioneer of Outlaw Country, dead at eighty one. I was a big Billy Joe Shaver fan. Uh My, I Love Live Forever is one of my top just I Love Live Forever. It's like a top twenty five song for me. Billy Joe Shaper died of a stroke at Waco, Texas Ascension Providence Hospital. If you loved Texas Country, you love Billy Joe Shaver. He rose to further prominence after Chris Kristofferson recorded this song Good Christian Soldier. He wrote stuff you Know, Lift Forever, Highwayman, other numbers, Elvis, David Allanco, Patty Loveless, Doug Kershaw, Johnny Paycheck, just so many people he wrote for. But yeah, that's sad. Jerry Jeff Walker and Billy Joe Shaver. We'll talk about Jerry Jeff Walker later on Huh. Whitney Houston's I Will Always Love You hit one billion views on YouTube. With a B a billion, there will be an Eddie van Halen tribute during the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction special. The number one song in the country this week is Mood by k Golden, But try to play cool. I just know it from TikTok. I was listening to the position of the day and like four songs in a row. Kaylm was with me. She was like, I can tell when you've been on TikTok because you know all the songs. Otherwise I want to know any of them. And then a C d C used fireworks to find a lot of monster. Do you know about this mine? I do, tell me about it. I think they were all drunk on tour and they're a let's try to get the lot monster out, so they fired out a bunch of fireworks. I would expect nothing less. All Right, there you go. I hope you enjoyed this one. That's your new music. Thank you, guys. Bobby and Eddie's music school is now in session. Up in the morning and out Edy, how are you? I'm great, bones, how are you pretty good? We're gonna talk about with me. My first one is the c m A Award. Fact you may not know because here we go. It's coming up. So let's see here. It's uh what from the recording of what we're doing, we're two weeks out by the time people will hear this, it would be about a week and a half out right, Mike from the c m A Awards um Entertainer of the Year. It's the big one, the history of the first CMA Entertainer of the Year. Since we'll talk about it with Tom Lord coming up in a second. The very first CMA awards took place in nineteen sixty seven, which means this year the Country Music Association will crown it's fifty four Entertainer of the Year. But which artist do you think was first to take home this prestigious award? Hank Williams, It's a good guess. The honor belongs to Eddie Arnold, a pioneer of the Nashville sound. Nicknamed the Tennessee Plowboy, Arnold had a hundred forty five songs make the country charts during his sixty year career. Eight went number one. That feet puts some second to only Who do you think for most songs on the chart? Country Country? Johnny Cash? Again solid guess, but no, you're George Jones. He was inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame in nineteen sixty six and died in two thousand eight. Some of his number one's include from Eddie Arnold this is It's a sin, It's a sin mind How I love you? Because I now can never be. Here's another one called cattle call Whispers are cowboys singing this long some cattle come? And one final one, make the world go away, Make awesome. That's the only one I know of those three me too, and I like to think of pretty smart when it comes to history about if I'm just being honest, I didn't know the first two, but I remember Eddie Arnold with the first kind of sound that you play the first song with more, a little more country swing. That's how I remember Eddie Arnold. But I do remember this song. Do you can you picture Eddi Arnold in your head? Yes? We have a lot of glitter what he looks like? Yeah, but big, big tall gallon what do they call it? Ten gallon cowboy hat and a lot of glitter or rhyin stones on a suit. Is that accurate the Eddie Arnold Lassie. Yeah, Old Eddie Arnold I think had a big hat. Yes. Let's talk about the origin of the trophy. The current CMA Awards trophy supposed to be be designed like the like a chart bullet, and is made from a crystal imported from Florence, Italy, because it's kind of like this, yes, ovally sharp. It's glass originally made from walnut. A shortage of the wood supply letter the crystal design than how many woods, so they just made it nicer. Crazy. It's been in Nashville every year since two thousand five, it was only at Madison Square Garden in New York City one time. The awards are in November eleventh, will airline from Nashville and ABC. Due to the coronavirus, the show will be hosted at Nashville's Music City Center, not bridged to arena, which is customary. There will be no live audience. There will be some people there. Though I'm a part of the show, I can't announce it yet. I got hoped it hosted. It didn't get that job this year. I felt like I was in the running there last second. But there will be people in the audience, but it won't be a normal crow. I think it's just going to be people that may be up for awards and people that are a part of the show. I chose not to. I'm not gonna sit in the crowd. I'm gonna go and walk to a backdoor, not be around anyone, and just get out, like the a c M. Stay safe. The first female CMA Entertainer of the Year, who do you think that was? It's tough. I'm asking you crazy, but the Lauretta Lynn correct, yes, got one, you got it. Yeah, here's a hook of coal miner's daughter from Lauretta Lynn. Here you go. Only six other female performers have won the award. Can you name any of them? Mm hmmm, Dolly, we'll only have Dixie Chicks and Taylor Swift. I thought they would all be listed here. I mean, I'm maybe dollars in there. I don't know. Garth Brooks and Kenny Chesney have the Most Entertainer of the Year awards, of course. All right. Finally, Eric Church, Luke Combs, Miranda Lambert carry under one of Keith Urban wrote this year. Now, I remember reading a while back that, you know, because some article that was differentiating the a c m S and the c m as. Is it accurate to say that c m as were Was the Nashville Award Show completely accurate? Because the a CMS for California West Coast Country, right, yeah, and that's why the show is always in Los Angeles. It was in Nashville this year because of coronavirus and all the artists weren't going to travel. But yes, that was California West Coast Country and now Vegas is where they haven't. Yeah, yeah, West Coast, yes, crazy, I didn't I didn't realize that in Los Angeles a few times, and I think it started in Los Angeles. Pretty cool. That is my version of music school. Eddie over to you. All right, So we're remembering Jerry Jeff Walker at age seventy eight, he lost his battle to throat cancer and um man, he he just really was, uh, the soundtrack of my high school years, my college years. And I love Jerry Jeff. And one of the cool things is just kind of going through Instagram and seen the artists that posted, you know, about his death, and Jimmy Buffett was one of the ones that kind of stuck out to me because if it wasn't for Jerry Jeff, cool little factoid, Uh, Jerry Jeff, it wasn't for Jerry Jeff taking him to Key West, Jimmy would have never really found that beach sound he was looking for. It was Jerry Jeff that drove him to q West for the first time and uh, and he Jimmy ended up loving it and staying there and writing songs there, which became kind of the the background of his beach sound, if you want to call it that. But but that's pretty cool. And also to just kind of growing up in Texas, my whole life. Jerry Jeff was the godfather of Texas country, you know, and it's cool to kind of know where he came from because these artists you know him as the sound like I just said Jimmy Buffett, right. But but Jerry Jeff started in New York. He's he's a New Yorker and he started there in the nineties, sixties and the Greenwich Village sound, so with Dylan, Dave Van Ronk, you know, those folk singers, that's what Jerry wanted to be changed his name, changed his name completely. That's where he changed his name. So coming to Texas, he's like, no, no, no, this is who I am, this is how this is where I feel very comfortable and started that Texas country sound, which is pretty cool, man. And I think we all know him from Mr boj Angles. I think a lot of people, though I don't know that he wrote that, because the Bob Dylan version to me was the one that most people know. Do you remember the nitty gritty version, nitty gritty dirt, man, I don't. I feel like I was again. I know it, but I don't remember it like I know it now, But I didn't know it from back in the day. Yeah, that's that's kind of where I come from. Two was like I do remember hearing that. I don't remember who I knew it from, but bo ch Angles to Me was a very famous song, but I never knew who did it. It always sounded like it was something a Bob Dylan did, so I do remember him singing that. But once again high school, when I got the CD of Jerry Jeff singing Mr bo Jngles and researching where did this come from? Uh, yeah, it's Jerry jeff song. This is his song. Wrote it back in New Orleans from you know, being I guess he got arrested for public intoxication, got thrown in jail, and New Orleans ended up meeting this guy who was a homeless dude and his dog and his tongue, stories of his dog and how he died and all this stuff, but he would dance in the jail cell. So he wrote Mr bro Jenkles because of that. Pretty cool other clips we have Singria Wine. These are kind of my my top three Jerry Jeff song sing Real Wine to Me, sangree Wine, whoa sang Real, and I gott getting by also, And I picked these songs because these are written by Jerry Jeff Enough and not even know him personally, but I felt by listening to Getting By that this is kind of how he lived his life, just one day at a time, Getting By living my life easy come, easy go, And that to me really hit me, you know when I was listening to it the weekend that he died. But Getting By, man, this is this takes me back. No I could see to win. Was this before your high school? Not just listen to hanging out with my buddies. We would just have parties and just Blair Jerry Jeff Walker. I don't even know when this record is an older song, this is this is seventies. But I thought when I said that, I was like, you know what, I could be wrong. And Luke and Boch two is you know that was this is where he recorded a lot of these songs. Um, not really with a crowd, but just to go to Luke and Boch take the tour bus and just go record an album. They're pretty cool there you go, Larry jeff Man, rest in peace. But like you always say, it's so cool that we're gonna have his music for the rest of our lives. And then lives to come for sure, and that is Bobby and Eddie's music school. Class goodness, that was Bobby and Eddie's music school. I wanted to bring someone in and talking about management because it's not really something we've talked about a lot on the show other than me going I gotta pay him. I mean, that's mostly it's mostly me griping about but in a loving way because I know I make more than off thecent I pay. So I wanted to bring in Tom Lord of Red Light Management. What is your overarching title there, Well, we don't have official titles, but I'll tell you my role, which is basically describing a title. UM. I was brought in from Universal Music Group. I was a record label guy. Came into management about seven years ago to help build the marketing department. So I was head of marketing for our Nashville office. And then that sort of has evolved and there are a handful of us that run the office and help Corin, who that's a name will probably say in this podcast a couple of times help corn who is the head of the company, run the Nashville office. And that's some of the basic logistical things of UM. The office, office, maintenance, it's hirings and firings if necessary, and just kind of general maintenance of the the management team in Nashville, and then um management it rolls as well. So I have a couple of artists that I sort of have under my supervision from a manager role. In full transparency, I am one of them. So is the Raging Idiots, which is one and the same, except not Gabby Barrett. You work with Gabby. I mean I worked with Gabby four years ago on IDOL. I remember those conversations like, Okay, Gabby's a couple, let's get her and the early early ones and then watch and you were so instrumental in her even landing a record deal. Ye. So before we get to that specifically, like why in the world would someone need a manager, because most folks don't even know if someone gets gives a speech, and like, well I think our manager, we all just roll our eyes because don't know what that means. Well, that's what I was gonna say this this podcast. Maybe you were least consumed podcast, because I'm not sure people really know what management is or have any interest, But I do think it's important. It's definitely a big part of this industry. The biggest for me. It's massive for what I do. And it's not something I talked about because I'm not embarrassed of it or I don't think people aren't interested. But it's just so in the we us. But that's what this podcast is. Yes, So why the world? What's some money to manage? Uh? For the best way to describe it is to put it as an analogy for running a business. You know, the artist is the chairman of a business. That's your business. You know, in your case, you have a business that you need to run and that includes for you specifically, it's touring, it's merchandise, it's philanthropic efforts, it's personal appearances, it's publishing, book deals, it's um you know, radio, everything you know and so you know, with your need to be creatively involved on all those in all of those facets of your business, UM, you need somebody to help run your business. Late so you're the chairman and where your president of the company. So we help run the PR departments, and finance department, and merchandise department, the philanthropic department, UM, merchandise that the whole Bala Act. So we just our job is to make sure all of the pieces of the business are connected and that are working and help execute your goals. That's what a manager does. UM. And you know we're in the weeds with everything, you know when we try to keep the artist out of the weeds, but all of it is with their direction and we come at you know, in the case with you, if there's anything that comes up, we don't sign off on unless we know that's something that you would sign off on, or we we we come to you and ask specifically for your yes or no on certain things. So that that's really the role of the manager. If that answers that right? With Gabby, what do you deal with day to day with She's got a number one song, but a pretty new artist in country music, because I would imagine that's a lot different than someone who has been around for a bit. So what is it with you in the Gabby process that you're dealing with right now? UM, I'll start with when when I first started working with Gabby, what that role was, and then kind of where it is today. When I first started working with Gabby, you know, some of it was just even pretty basic education about Nashville and the in the music business, because that's the other thing I think a manager is important for for an artist is an artist generally walks into becoming an artist or you know, sort of declares that they're going to become an artist, but they don't know the facets of business. They don't know the avenue, they don't have the roadmap to be able to navigate a label conversation and a publisher conversation and who's the right merchandise person or with the booking agency, who are the right people that I need to talk to. So that is what the experience of a manager has and helps bring to the table for an artist. And that was for the case with Gabby. You're in the case with Gabby. Early on she came out American Idol and that is an amazing platform, as you know and are deeply involved with. It's amazing platform to build an audience, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee you the record deal and the publishing deal or merchandise deal or get on a tour, etcetera, etcetera. And so when Gabby first came off an idol as mature as she was for her age, and she came off a idol and she was nineteen years old. Um, you know, she needed some education on how Nashville works, and so I felt like the first part of my job with her was is um sort of setting the tone for Hey, here's the reality of the situation. You came off an amazing TV show, gave you a great platform, but no labels are jumping, you know, to to sign you. And so now what we have to do is prove it to them. And so it was helping set the i think, the roadmap for building a reputation outside of Idol, building a reputation as an artist in the town, starting to be part of the community. So that was a big part of it then. And then it was with her and navigating with nineteen Entertainment, who is also part of the American Idol family, who was a part of the mix, but they're not necessarily part of the Nashville community. Um that we navigated releasing her song I Hope without a major label deal, and that was where you know, my role as a marketer and also manager came into strong play with her to help, you know, kind of work with the DSPs, which are the digital partners. It's the Spotify as the Apples, the Pandoras, and um Amazon's to make sure that they knew this artist was coming, that they knew who she was and what she was about, finding a pr person, you know, sort of building the team. I think that was a big part of it. Building the team was another part of the early roles. And then we get the major label deal and then it's you know, then we released the single out to terrestrial radio and it has done tremendously well. Um. So my role, I would say, has evolved from when we first started working together to today. And I think today, UM, the role of my job with Gabby and we have a lot of conversations about it is you know, she understands that we've had an amazing first step, um, and we're having a moment is sort of this is my cliche thing that I say, and I'm saying in almost every meeting we're in, is that you know, we're having a moment, but we need to make a movement. And so that is now, how do we navigate from the I hope artist into an artist that has you know, repeated success and um, And so we're trying to as you know, as listen as we never want to you know, sort of look a gift course horse in the mouth here. But you know, with the success that we're having with I Hope and continue to have, I'm trying to move past in a lot of ways to say, hey, look at this song and it's the Good Ones. That's our next single, and so my my job now is trying to change the spotlight a bit. You know, let's enjoy the spotlight that we've got with with with I Hope, but let's try to shift the spotlight to show the success that we're having with the Good Ones, because we know we need to move from this moment. There has to be matation that's exactly right with an artist like Chris Jansen, who I know you're involved with Chris and Kelly, Kelly's manager's wife, and you're also involved in in Chris because he's a red light as well. Obviously he's a lot older, had been around a lot longer, um had been in Nashville way before you got involved with Chris. So how is that different situationally with Chris than with Gabby. The approach is very different, you know, with Gabby it is you're building a introduction. It's the first impression that you're trying to build, and that has a strategy to it. You know, you only have the one time to make a first impression, as as they say, and you know, and so for her, it's building the right first impressions. For Chris, there's at least some history there that you're able to jump into that as because Chris had previous management and as you said, had different record deals and when he came over to Red Light and so, UM, what we're able to do in that case is sort of look at the history and go, Okay, let's look at what you have done. And now you've already made an impression in the marketplace, and is there anything with that impression that we need to change? Do we need to evolve that, do we need to grow that? And I think, um, And I think it's okay to say this because it was. It was definitely my strategy with first working with Chris, and that was um kind of building again sort of repeatable success because I think there was a impression with Chris that he was the surprise hitmaker with buy Me a Boat. And the reason I say surprise hitmaker with buy Me a Boat because he had had a couple of record deals and at some point in this industry, love it or hate it, sometimes the industry turns you out. After you've had a couple of record deals, you've sort of lost your opportunity. And Chris released by Me about independently, this is even before signing with Warner released Buy Me a Boat, and it just with the help of Bobby Bones Show plug to get that plug. With the help of Bobby Bones and the Bobby Bones Show put him back on the map. And so that became a surprise hit. And then all of a sudden, the record labels are calling again, and so and and he was having success, but it wasn't He wasn't able to replicate necessarily the success of Buy Me a Boat after that song had come out, And so as I talked about with Gabby sort of trying to find that repeatability, I think with Chris that was the strategy when we first started working together. It's like, Hey, we need to prove it, Chris. We know you've got the talent. We can hear in the songs, we hear it in the record. We know your town, we know what you can do on stage, but now we need the town to see you as more than Buy Me a Boat. And I think there I would put um Chris and and Gabby almost in the same category as that they're that first major hit that they both had, in Chris's case, buy Me a Boat, and in Gabby's case, I hope they those songs will always follow them around. UM. It is hard when you have a song that is so big that is really the first big hit for an artist, UM, you know, that will follow you around for your whole career and you just the job is never to try to um repeat that exact song success, but you've got to then evolved from it. And I think from Chris that was the case. It's like, we gotta show people that you're more than that. And since then he's and this is all on him because he's the songwriter and all these songs. But it's fixed a Drink and it's good vibes and it's drunk girl, UM, and it's done. And now Waiting on five is the current single. He is now repeated success. So I think the strategy changed with you know, and it was different when I started working with Chris versus working with Gabby then. So I think that's how it was different for Chris if And there are a lot of artists that listen to this podcast because we do go on the weeds at times with publishing. Now with management obviously, sometimes they're like, how the heck do I get a manager? And uh? And my answer is always the same when anyone's asking how do I do anything? It's play as many places you can be and hopefully you catch someone's eye. That's just my general answer because I know that's not wrong. It may not be right, but it's not wrong. So as someone who it's pretty high up at the biggest management company in town, I'm assuming, right, that's the biggest in town. It is right, it's the biggest independent management company I think in the world, the way that's in it's set up, and I think from a from a number of staff and artists, probably the biggest. So how does one that's unmanaged get a manager? Man? So many avenues for that. And you know, if you're an aspiring artist and you're listening to this and you want to say, man, how do I find a manager? Um? You know, managers come in different shapes and sizes. I tell you, the role of the manager is somebody that you can really trust. And I hate to say that anybody can be a manager, but to a certain extent, you know, there are a lot of people. And I listened to the podcast. Actually my prep work coming into today was listening to the podcast with Kerry Edwards. She wasn't a manager when she first started working with Luke, but she was somebody that believed in Luke and Luke trusted and they had built and report together and you know, just found that sort of synergy to lean on each other. And you know, look at the success that they've had. And she is his manager still today from the day one. UM. But she didn't start that way. She was a publisher and prior to that she was at a record company. And UM, so I think you can find a manager in anybody, but UM that you trust and you build a relationship with. But you know, I think from my perspective, we get some recommendations from mortists, from attorneys, from publishers, from record companies. UM. You know, we get recommendations a lot. That's how we find artists. Mostly, UM, is from the publishing community or from the booking agents that have seen an artist down on the road. UM. If you're an artist and you haven't necessarily built those relationships, UM, to be honest with you, I don't know that you need managers. Probably not the first move that you need to make. You don't need to go, hey, I need to go get a manager, and then I can build everybody. Um. I think probably you start with if you're a songwriter, you start in the songwriting community, and you build your relationships with the p R O S and that's a B M I or as CAP or C sack and then they helped develop and build relationships and of the publishing community. And then once you build into the publishing community, that starts to build out your team. And that's where a manager really is a valuable part of the team. It's probably not the first team member you have in most cases. Um, it's when you're at a level where you're ready to go in the marketplace and you've got got to make some of those decisions and pitched to the labels and and you know, kind of make the touring moves that I think the manager is probably the most important component of your team at that point. To shift the question just to bid how in the world you get to be a manager, because again we have those people too who are working entry level jobs or there or their artists who don't want to do it anymore. And who maybe had it busted through and I'm like, hey, I think I just want to manage. And people may come to you like how do people become a manager? Well, I think it. What makes you a good manager is experience, um and something. Well, that's where I was going to go with it. I think in something, I mean, I think this is such a small town in some ways, I don't want to say it in town is referring to Nashville. Mostly is that it's just such a small community of people and we all learn from each other, we all work really well together, and we all get along for the most part. I think it's fair to say, Um, you know, it's finding the avenue that, um, you know, where you're passionate about. In some cases it's in the song runting community and you're working in the publishing world and you decide you want to make a move into management. Then you find that artist that you really want to work with, Like you find you know, and I encourage people if they're in high school or college, um, you know, find that local talent and and and work with them and try to help them and learn as you go. It's experience for the most part that really gives you the credentials to become a manager. I'll tell you. For me, what I think makes me um good at my job and management is that I have been in this industry a long time and the gray hairs are showing it. Um. But for me, I was in the marketing department at a record company and that's where I learned about radio, and that's when I learned about sort of branding and UM. Working with artists and knowing the sort of the nuances of the artists and UM. And I think for me, that's given me a broad scope of the industry as a whole. That makes me I think a valuable part of the management team is knowing already the nuances of of the labels and the decisions that need to be made there. So I think, UM, it's it's really grinding it out in the industry for most part. I do think there are a lot of people that wave their hands when they come out of college and they say I want to be a manager, and they just they start working with artists, but they just don't know the as I said road map earlier, they don't know the roadmap, and so they're just to figure out as they go and you know, I was lucky enough going to Belmont. I went to Belmont University and I'm major in music business, and I did internships. I jumped into the internal world. I think Mike d is a who's sitting at the table with us here is a glowing example of it. You know, you just gotta get involved, you know, and and as soon as you can, if you if you want to be in management, UM, it's it's getting an internship, you know, and working in the management community and um learning and just growing. And then you become an assistant within the management community. Then you become a day to day manager. What means you're basically you're you know, you're handling the calendar and you're making sure that the the days and the minutes are being taken care of, that the artist is where they need to be. And then you kind of grow into a more strategic manager and become a manager and have a roster of your own. Um. But it's time and experience. And that's a long answer to your question, but I think sort of helps illustrate. It's just it's time and experience mostly that makes you a good manager. You're doing marketing universal you leave to go to Red Light to be the marketing guy there as well. When did you go ahead? I think I actually want to, you know, get my my hands dirty and actually work with an art And who was the first artist that you actually were in with where you were making decisions for them specifically? Well, when I came over to Red Light, I did not necessarily have designs to be a manager. UM. I was looking for a new opportunity. I've been in the record company business for going on twenty years. At that point, I started at a small company in town called Rising Tide when I was finishing at Belmont, but I was working there basically full time and worked there for a couple of years, and then I went over to UM Mercury Records, and I'd seen the sort of the change of the industry and at that point Napster it hit that. This again dates me, but that's when Napster hit the scene, and UM I could see how that was changing the record industry. Because Mercury Records, there were a lot of independent company There was Lyric Street Records, there was dream Works, there was Mercury, there was m c A, there was Arista, there was Giant Records, there was Curb. I mean, there was all these record companies around town and I was working for Mercury and at that time I had a really strong roster. Shania Twain was on the roster and what was sort of the biggest artist that they had at that time, and it was coming off of the Come On Over record, which was selling Diamond, which was ten million. And if you look at stats today in terms of what wrecks are getting certified, that's it's almost unheard of today. Um, when you put in streaming equivalents, you know people are getting there. But but that was huge. So it Schneia Twain, and it was Terry Clark and Sammy Kershaw and Jamie O'Neil, and then we had the Old Brother where at Ou soundtrack that just sort of blew up. But what we were seeing was, um that we were seeing a huge decline in sales that were starting to happen. And with that then all the mergers. So Mercury then became Mercury m c A. We we merged with m c A and I saw a staff decline. We we had to they had to let some people go, and then it was Mercury m c A. Dream Works when we made merged with DreamWorks, and I saw staff and layoffs um and then we shut down that imprint DreamWorks altogether, and then we merged with E M I Capital, So then that became what is now known as Universal Music Nashville, which is Mercury, m C A Capital and EMI. And then I saw the same thing. I saw layoffs, and so I was through this. I don't know, just just kept seeing this changing environment and layoffs and consolidations and what seemed to be do more with less people, less money was was what seemed to be the strategy. And so at that point then that's you know, like I said, almost twenty years later, of kind of going through that grind. And luckily, you know, I always had a home at a record company during all that. But I did start to think, Man, there's gotta be a different path for me. I keep seeing the decline within the record companies, and you know, where is my skill set? And you know for me in marketing, you know, the other places to work in the industry, and there are several it's you know, business management. I don't have an accounting background, so I can't just jump into business management. I hadn't been working in the touring environment, so I couldn't just jump into being a booking agent. And you know, I wasn't an attorney, you know, and I hadn't worked in the merged business. So I was just thinking, what's what's my next path? And you know, I think to be a good manager, you have to be a good marketer. I think everything is marketing, really um And so I just kept thinking that probably my next life in the industry is in the management world, and that's the timing was right for me as I was starting to have this internal struggle about what's next for me and my path in the industry is was right at that time when we had merged with the in My Capital, and I also had felt at the company. UM, I don't know that I felt like I saw my path earlier. Before we merged with them my Capital, I'd sort of rose in the ranks and I was the VP of Marketing at Mercury m c A. And then with the merger there was a whole new group of folks came in, a new head of the company. The head of the company that had been their prior, Luke Lewis, had always been you know, soon of my he was my mentor and boss at that time, and I felt like I always had home from him, him with him, and he left, and that's when Mike Dungan came in and run the company. And I've known Mike for a long time, and I've heard his name multiple times on this podcast because he's had such an influence and he has on me, But still he wasn't my guy necessarily, and and so then I had to adapt into this new team, and I just I didn't feel like I necessarily had my long term UM hath at this new Universal Music Group company, and so I was keeping my eyes and ears open. And that's when I think seeing some of that change in the industry. Corren Capshaw, who was the head of UM Red Light, had heard my name and actually with a colleague when by the name of Mary Hilliard, had mentioned my name to Corn because he was looking to expand the Nashville office. And the reason he was looking to expand the Nashville office was kind of the same reason I was looking to leave the record company. Because he had seen the trend of the record companies. And if you're having a management company, you put a lot of your hope and trust in and you're in the manpower Um that you expect to to have was succeed with an artist with the record company. You're hoping the record company has the resources to really support your artist and break your artists in the marketplace. And he was seeing that trend managing artist. He was seeing that all these record companies that we were signing our artists to, a lot of these record companies were reducing their staff, reducing their budgets, and so he kept thinking, well, gosh, as a management company, I can't eve you know, the future of artists in the hands of record companies solely if they're declining. So I need to start building out my staff. And so he knew that this change was happening over at Universal and Mary Hilliard had said, Hey, I know this guy Tom and recommended that Corn just meet me. And it's so funny. She reached out to me and said, hey, you want to meet this guy, Um Corn, and I said, yeah, I'd love to. I mean, I didn't know what it was. I thought it was just to meet him. Um. I didn't necessarily know or think that it was a interview. But if you know Corn and Bobby, I know you do you know he's he's right to business. You know, there's no hey, let's talk about your life. I mean it's like, tell me what you do, tell me what you do for the record company? Um, you know, do you ever work in internationally? We're working. I mean, he was straight to business. And I left the lunch with him and I thought, well, that wouldn't like I get to know. That was an interview and we just kept conversation and then he invited me to join Red Light and I told him, I said, listen, I've never managed anybody, so I don't know that. I mean, I'm very interested, but I don't know that I would have to learn. And he said, well, I don't necessarily need you to manage anybody. I want you to come and help me with marketing and help let's let's let's make this company a bigger and better management company. And that's when I left the record company, which is a little bit of a leap of faith. I mean my personality, I'm I like some risk, but sometimes risk adverse. And I've been at the record companies for, like I said, almost twenty years, and so I felt comfortable at my four oh one k you know, and all of those things, and but I don't think I was feeling fulfilled. And um, it was my wife who said, Tom, listen, you've got it. I think you need to make a change, you know, for your own self personally, but also professionally. And um, you know, I love my former employees and and um colleagues over at Universal and all the record company that I worked with, But that was the best boot move I can make. I I immediately felt more fulfillment, enjoyment out of management, and I just really got the bug and I started to really understand it more So to answer your question, this is a long answer to your question, but you asked what made me decide from marketing to get into more specific artist management, And I think it was learning more about what that business is. And when I was sitting in the seat of the record company, I felt like we were the only ones doing the work. And you hear people at the record company complaining the same man, what's the manager doing? I feel like we're doing all the work. And then when I started working at the management company, I realized what goes into artist management. I mean, it is a sometimes thankless job, not with you, Bobby, um, but sometimes thankless job. But it's seven. It's all the time, and you know, we're dealing with the record company, but we're also dealing with something in their personal life. We're also dealing with UM. You know, like I said, they're touring and the merchandise and their PR issues or whatever it may be. And so it is a constant thing. But I've found and I think this it is a part of my personality as I sort of thrive in that chaos. I really loved it. And so having been a red Light for a while UM and in my role of kind of overseeing marketing, there were a couple of artists that UM had started to join the Red Light team, but I didn't necessarily have a specific manager that we're working with, or had been working with a manager, and that relationship for whatever reason, just didn't work out. And there was a young kid UM and this was sort of my first quote unquote artist that I started working with, and it was a young kid by the name of Adam Sanders and he had a hit with Cole Swindell. He wrote hit for him and wrote a song UM for Dustin Lynch. There was a number one single, Hell of a Night, and had a cut on Luke Brian's record, and he was a young talented artist and at the time I was helping him with his marketing and his manager and he just split and he said, listen, I'd like to stay at Red Light, and you know, would you work with me? And that's when I started to really work with and focus on a single artist and kind of help him along. And you know, I was careful not to jump too far and deep into the quote unquote management side, more specifically with an artist, because my role was also doing marketing um. But but I just love that ability to focus on a single artist, and I think that's the one thing in my role in marketing it's hard for me to get really entrenched into the day to the day with an artist because there's so much going on in artist career and that's what the manager in the day to day is doing. And so I was sort of flying at thirty thou feet with a lot of these artists and joining in and a marketing meeting with them and able to offer some suggestions or ideas. But you know, I didn't feel like I was, you know, having that direct impact on their day to day um. And I think that's what gave me a little bit more of the bug to say, Man, I'd really like to do that with a few artists that I feel passionate about or or or people that I feel passionate about. And and that's where it's sort of lead me to some of the artists that I'm working with now. I've you know, you grow really personally attached to these artists working with them, and you want to see them succeed and um, and that was and that was my move I think at that point. You know, I still I still oversee the marketing team, but also have to balance that and focusing on some of these artists that I work with. But but I love it on a day to day basis. Sugar Land is another artist when they're together that that you manage. How in the world are folks making money when you can't tour? Great question, Um not, They're They're making some. And and to clarify that, I've I've worked with sugar Land from the day they signed a record deal at Mercury Records. I was sitting in the lobby and Mercury Records when this new trio at the time came into the lobby and was introduced to us as this band sugar Land, and it was Kristen and Jennifer and Christian U the three that were the founding members of sugar Land, and so I had done the marketing for them, um when I was on the record company side, and when I left and came into management Christian Bullish at the time. This was when they took a little bit of a break and both pursued some other opportunities that they had, which I think was healthy for them. Um. Christian was looking for some management support for him, and so he came over to Red Light and I started working with him, and it was just a natural fit because we had worked together before. And so when sugar Land came back together, I worked with Christian. And then there's a woman Gail Gelman, who works with Jennifer, and we make it work working together for them. And UM, right now is it's a it's a great question. They're they're victim to it. As as all of these artists are. How are they making money today? Um, there are a couple of ways that an artist can make money outside of touring, but I'll tell you it is definitely the biggest part of their pie. UM. And as with management, because managers, as you said, you know, the financial structure for managers that we basically participate in an artist income um and and really income of all spheres, you know, so that's from their merchandise, it's from personal appearances or brand deals or whatnot UM, but a lot of that centers around touring, and touring is where the most money has made. And in fact, I know, you know a segment that you had before you were talking about sort of appearance feeds for artists, and you were kind of going through how that works, and you know, I think when you look at it even for an artist that you know, when you look at the quote unquote rate card that you had thrown out there on some of those artists, is you know, if an artist makes forty dollars for an appearance, that's not forty dollars that goes into their pocket, you know, It's it's they have expenses tied into it. It's the travel costs to get there, they have to pay their band and crew, they have to pay the commissions for the booking agent, their business manager, their manager, and you know, at the end of it, that forty dollars probably turns into ten tho dollars or whatever it may be, and um, so it's it gets thinner now. The bigger you play, the bigger venues you play, the bigger your guarantees, you know, the after expenses you're you still you're bringing home more money. Um. But at the end of the day, it is from the touring side where the majority of the money comes in. And right now people are at first when COVID impact of the touring business. You know, there are a lot of people that I think, well, I think a lot of us, if not all of us, really hope that this was just a few months and then we'll be back in business. I mean, that's what I was a big part of in the start of this was Okay, all of the tours that was that we're going to start in April or May, let's move them to June and July. And then we're thinking, okay, maybe we'll just move some of these to August, September. And then it just kept moving and moving and moving. Um So when it first hit and impacted our business, I don't think I don't think we were as much concerned about the financial impact as we are today because it's obviously having a bigger impact. Knowing the delay that it's put on touring again, the biggest part of all of our business. Um. So at first, I think people were just wanting to stay engaged, and they were doing the virtual shows, and they were Facebook live all the time, and and a lot of times those were just free and it was just free entertainment for fans to stay engaged until we got back to business. And then I think you've seen from that somewhat fatigue from that, I think on the consumer side, but also on the artist side, but also artists saying, Okay, now I have to monetize this. I gotta figure out a way to monetize this because if this is our quote unquote new normal for right now, um, you know, I can't afford to just to do free shows all the time because that's not feeding my crew, it's not feeding my family. Um. And so a lot of artists have moved into more branded, sponsored virtual events. Um, there's still a way to stay I mean, listen, all of these artists in their own right are influencers, you know, and they have big followings you know, and they're artists that you have millions of people on on Instagram and Facebook, any of the social platforms, and that it is a value to brands right now, some brands. Now, I think it's impacted brands as well, you know, I mean I think everybody's suffering from it. But I think you're seeing that from sponsored content. I think you're seeing it from virtual shows. I think you're seeing it from flash sales and what people can do for merchandise. Um, those are where a lot of those artists are making money. Now, if you're an artist that is also a songwriter, that's different. You're able to have success if your songs are being played at radio, that that business is still there. In the streaming business, there's there's income to be be made on the publishing and performance right side. Sorry I'm getting in the weeds on it, but um, you know, I think that the basic point is without touring, that's probably an impact of of any given artists. And I would say management companies income right now. Have you seen anything like Luke Combs in your time in the label or working on management. I'll tell you, I think the closest thing I can compare him to is what I felt like the impact of Garth Brooks was on the community. Um, and I wasn't even really in the business at that time. But I once I joined the industry, everybody referred to him and and I was a fan, you know, as as I know you are. Um. But man, he hit the scene and hit it fast. You know, it's much to young to feel this damn mole, which was great, But then it was friends in low places and unanswered prayers and thunder rolls and all of the I mean, it was just hit after hit after hit after almost like the Mighta's touched. Everything he had touched was gold, you know. And um, I can I can compare a similar impact a way Chris Stapleton impacted, But I can't even put those two together because Chris had been around this town for fifteen years. He was in the Steel Drivers and the Johnson Brothers. I mean, he had already been in the industry for some time. Luke seemed to come out of nowhere and is categorized, and I think rightfully so as a superstar. He is a superstar now. Um. So to answer your question, not necessarily, I mean, I think you could Shania Twain, but she had a record before she really like really hit when she partnered with mut Lange and then that's when the the woman in me record came out and who's betted your boots been under? And then it was it was a rocket ship then, but it wasn't quite the same immediate impact that I think Luke is having. What about Aldine al Deane? I think I guess a little different because, um, when now, don't you say it? He had immediate hit with his first single, only Picktown was his first single. Was the only person I've heard compared to Luke Combs in this generation because Garth is the last, the one right before I is al Deane. That's probably a good one. And I remember because I was in the industry when that happened. Um, And I think what's surprised people most what too was that was an independent record company. This was a new record company. Benny Brown had started with Broken Bow Records, and here was this you know, new kid. Um that hit and you're right, it was hit after hit for him. Um. I think Luke's trajectory, at least it seems perceptually from me right now, it seems to even has sort of exceeded that. But I think that's a great example. Jason did have immediate impact and then you know, just years later is selling out. You know, Georgia Stadium and having you know, the tremendous success. But that but listening any of the superstars that we have today, it didn't happen overnight. You know. Luke Bryan a great example who as we mentioned earlier, you know, it was a couple of records in when he really really hit was it Tailgates and tan Lines. That was like at that point he had arrived. Eric Church was an immediate you know, and that took a bit. And then superstar, um, Carrie Underwood I think had tremendous impact with her first single, but I think it was a little different. I think that was I don't think it. I didn't feel like she came off of a you know, American idol too, And I don't know, I don't know that I could put it the same way. Miranda took a while before Kerosene and then really started to have hits. And it doesn't happen like you see it with with Luke Hombs, you know, and um, you know, I give it to him. He's done no wrong so far, and um, you know, good for him. I'd like to see that, you know. I want to see young I want to see new superstars. I think we as a format have to have that not that not that you want to see people evolve out. And I think that's the beauty of country music is that country artists can have those twenty thirty artist, you know, year careers. And I think you've seen it with George Strait and the Alan Jackson's Martina McBride, who's still having success, maybe not the same relative success that you see if you're benchmarking against radio, but she's still able to go out there and tour. And you look at all of these others, the Mark you know, the Mark Chestnuts and Mark Wills and you know and and you know, God rest his soul, but Joe Diffy was having a really strong career um you know, in resurgence. And so these artists are able to have really, really long career. So, like I said, I don't want to see them evolve out. But I think it's important that we continue to elevate as an industry, elevate super superstars, because that is only that it's only healthy for our I think our genre in our format, because it continues to bring new audience in. You don't want our audience to completely age out. You want the younger audience to have an artist that they can champion the same way I think you and I where me specifically was champion you know, Garth Brooks at the time or Dwight Yo'll come at the time when it hit for me like these are those are the artists that I felt like I owned a little bit, you know. Um, and so you know see these young superstars, and you know there are artists that are now headline you know, Dan and Shay. You know that's not an overnight success superstars now, you know, and um, you know, kudas to kudos to it because it's not easy, you know, being in this industry, man, it is tough to get that level. It's easy. It maybe it's not even easy. But you can have a hit, you know, you can have a hit, but to impact, um, I think that's that's something that is that that's a difference, you know. And that's what you've seen in Hacked from you know, we said Gabby earlier, Gabby's having really strong impact right now with this one song. Now our challenge her challenge will be too back that up. But Chris Stapleton impact once he really kind of hit the scene. But again that was a grind for him. You know, I was there at Universal when you know, Chris sort of took his first step as a solo artist, if you will, UM in the kind of commercial country landscape and UM put out some great music. There was a single called what do You listening To? That it's still in a heavy rotation in the Lord Household, which is my household, just so you know, it's not Heaven. I'm referring to people that it could be playing up there also, but UM, you know, and to me, you had hoped and thought. And I think that's the thing with management that's a struggle, is that you know, you get attached to these artists and you just you it seems so obvious to you their talent and seems so obvious that they should succeed UM. And I think Chris, Chris Stapleton was one of those artists. When he first came through, it was like, well, this isn't a brainer. This guy's got it all, you know. And this this is about the time I met Chris, because I was having me on the show when the song came out. Well that you know, that's right, you went early the same thing you sold that to you know, early Champion loved him, was getting in trouble for putting him on the air because nobody had ever heard of him, like executives in in radio. Because I was being eyeballed hard every move because I was different at what I was doing, so like why are you doing this? And so we have a video of Chris because he come in four or five times early. And the first time I ever called him, I called him He's in the shower. He was like, hey, man, I'm in the shower. I call you right back. I was on the air. I was like, yeah, man, we'll call you back in a minute. And so he came in and he did a bunch of his hits, your man, Josh Turner. He did uh. He came back later to drink a beer from lout that he wrote. But I was like, this guy is so pure just as a as an artist. He probably not the most perfect singer, but he's the best in my mind. Like I was just moved by him. And and when he finally hit I was like, holy crap. And and again at the Staple thing, I've never seen anything album related like a half with Stapleton with with that album that had Tennessee whiskey and um, you know, whisking you and it said fire away, and you know that's that was the Traveler. I mean, it was parachute parachute with that record. Yeah, I have an album. Wise, I've seen nothing like that album since I've been in town, which is about eight years now, because it just stayed at number one. Yeah, it's still I think if you look on some of these streaming charts, it's still one of the top streamers, which is unbelievable at that But I think what the point I was making with him is that, you know, you you see some of these artists that you think, um, you know, it seemed no brainer, and that they can have their shot and that they're gonna you know, they're gonna have immediate impact, and and sometimes that it doesn't, you know, and sometimes it doesn't work for whatever reason. And I think, you know, not everybody sees and that's the It's sort of the beauty and also sort of the frustrating thing about music. It is it really is so subjective in so many ways. I Mean, there are songs that I hear on records that I go, my god, that's a hit, you know, and instead, you know, they really something else. I think that's not gonna work, and then it becomes a multi week number one. You know, it's we all have our opinions there, and UM, I think with with Chris, I thought that was going to hit immediately. And I have to imagine and he and I have not had a conversation about it, um, but I have to imagine that was really frustrating for him, you know, and but he stuck with it, and um, and then he made a record that, as you said, is really stood the test of time. And you know, that's Uh, that's what I get off on in this industry is seeing those artists succeed that really you know, that truly have that talent. And everybody has their own talent that bring to the table. But um, with him, it's been fun to see that kind of impact. And I think that's that when you asked about living the world of Luke Combs right now, and I don't work with Luke, but I'm seeing what what he's doing and that, you know, seeing what the impact that Chris had, I think it's important, like I said, for this format, we've got to continue to bring superstars to the stage. I'll end with this because your background is in music. You study music at Belmonts a business can so it's all been music. So what in the world will compel you to want to work with me because only one part of my business is music. Uh, I'd told you I sort of thrived in the chaos. Um. And I like the challenge of things. And I think for any manager, the worst thing that you can do is have a client that does not want it as much of you want as you want it for them. UM. And what I mean it is success. You know, there are a lot of artists that just sort of expect or clients or however you want to define them, that just expect success is going to happen, and they don't want to work for it necessarily or work as hard as you need them to work. Um. When we first worked together or started working together, UM, you know, I think you challenged all of us internally, UM, in in sort of laying out what your goals were. UM. And it wasn't just to be status quo um. And it was to elevate, and it was to write a book, and it was to have a TV show, and it was I mean you you've always aspired for more, and you know that's a big part of your personality and that really enthusisam you know that ignited me, I think is where I was going with it. I think I was drawn to your desire to keep growing. And um, I like to think that we have a um a fit just personality wise, like I just liked you. I liked you as a person and wanted to see you succeed and I got it like I understood it like and I I don't know. That's what really compelled me to work with you, is seeing your drive to see you want to succeed and you're not satisfied with the status quo and you want to try different things and that just keeps me growing too. Um And I think that has for me been a personally rewarding and professionally rewarding. Let me shout out Tom Betchy case he's listening, because you and Tom are are both my direct guys. And so you come from a creative music background where he's a business guy. And have you ever worked directly with Tom and till me, yeah. In fact, so we were at Universal together he came and when we merged together, when I was at Mercury m c A, he was um CEO of em I Capital, and we merged together and so for a year we worked together, um, but never directly like he was sort of more on the business side. He was running the operations and doing the books and working on payroll and working on the artist agreements, and it was all more legally stuff and I was more in this other sort of creative world where it's marketing and marketing campaigns and bigger strategy and content creation and etcetera, etcetera. Um, but we always had a mutual respect. And when he joined a Red Light after me, I'd like to think he followed me there. Um when he joined, uh, we both had a role at Red Light that was different than others. He was helping with more the operational stuff and I was helping more the creative stuff. And so we just found ourselves working together. And UM, I think that's what you wanted a management team. Is are people in your team that complement each other? And you know you described it. He brings strength to the table that I don't have far more. I wouldn't say far more, far more strengths more, I wouldn't. I mean, I wouldn't put it that way. I think he has some Um, but and I have other strengths, and I think we work really well together in that way. And I'll mention Morgan too, who came from radio and is now the position you talked about when someone gets into management. She is my day to day. You know, she's watching the calendar, she's you know, really making sure daily what's happening with me and enforcing at times and so and I assume Morgan has been good. I mean I see branching out a bit too. Yeah, Morgan has been great. And um, that was an interesting search for us because we were looking for somebody to be in that role and we saw the relationship and that sort of the evolution of Morgan in that she worked with you from an assistant level and sort of insistence phone screener, and she had sort of sort of evolved with you and grown with you. That. Um, we were lucky that we could sort of put her into that role and that she was willing to come into that role. And she's she's been great, and you know, she's learned the ropes quickly. And I think that was you know, that was the one thing that you said, how does somebody get into management? It is a learnable task. I mean there there are skill sets that come into it that I think you know that you you either have or you don't UM just from a personality trade. But you know you can learn the business. You learn any business, you know. I do think that there's some talents that you may not be able to master. Songwritings. One you can learn how to write a song and doesn't make you great at it. I've tried before UM, but Morgan has been a huge addition I think to this team and UM where we'd like to see her grow and that and I think that just makes us a stronger management company. If we can enable these folks that work within our red Light structure to UM, to work with other artists and to learn, that's going to make us a stronger management company across the board. As we wrap it up, the last couple of sprinkles will add the cupcake here that if you want me to ever hear a song, you have to get it to Tom, not to me. Let's not encourage that heart radio how many times a week to somebody at least reference you working with me for their benefit. It is, it's it's it's growing. By the day I've had I've had a couple within the last seven days that have been hey, um, you work with Bobby right, And I said, yeah, yeah, so you can you get him this record? You know? And and I think again, it's the relationship that a manager and incline or artists have is a trust thing. Like there's our relations and ship is built in a different way. It's built on me working with you in your career. I'm not in the programming business with you. I'm not in the radio business with you, and I don't pretend to be and I would never. And I think that's a part of what you have to balance as a manager is that you can't you can't have use that relationship. Um, if you know, if if it's not right, it's not right for me or for people to sort of assume that I can influence you. Well you can, you do well. We have conversation about artists. I think you know the way we we do. You know, there's some artists that I've championed and you've said, man, I'd really like that artist the same way you do for me. You come to me and say, hey, may what do you think of this artist? And you know, and I discover artists that way. Too. Um, but yeah, I try to respect that with you. It's like I can't be I'm not a radio rep and trying to get you know, everybody's singles played on the radio and influence you, and I try to respect that with you. I can think you like to ask Tom before wrap it up. I feel enlightened you. I'm sure you do again. This could be the was Consumed podcast. I don't know what the records are. Um, we're well over under for this is seven stream, yes literally seven Okay, that's mom, it's me listening back three times. It's Stephanie, my wife. The big takeaway here is much like everything else in the music industry, there isn't an exact key that goes into the exact hole. You kind of gotta figure it out by by Jimmy and the locks. Sometimes you do and follow up, and whether it's the music industry or anything else, it's just following your passion. Listen, that's the reason I'm in And it's not because I just was looking for a gig, um, you know, for me coming out of high school. I'm good. I'm glad we can extend the time here. Sorry, guys, I'm gonna take another hour here. But UM, you know, at eighteen years old, you're sort of faced with in life to decide what do you want to do with the restaurant life, what do you want a major in? What do you want to become? And for me, it was I was playing baseball and I knew my skill set was not enough to take me to the major leagues. And I was playing in bands, I was playing music. I just loved it, but I new again that I didn't necessarily have the skill to to be a full time musician. And that's when I learned about, you know, music business, and UM, I went to Belmont University. I walked on for the baseball team, made the team for a couple of months for semester. I'll give myself a little more credit um as a walk on. And then UM started major in music business. And I just was enamored with it and I just love it and I still do today, Like I still get fired up about music. I still love songs. I still and I and I get so much enjoyment out of seeing artists succeeds. So I guess that my my point in all of that is, you know, if if music is your passion, man follow it, you know, or whatever it is. And there are so many opportunities in life, um that I don't know that I really ever knew of, you know, interior design or you know, whatever it may be. You know, for me, it was like you can be a doctor, a business salesman, an attorney, or a teacher. You know. It's like I don't know, like that's all I really knew of. And man, there's so many opportunities out there. Um, But it starts with finding your passion. And I feel so lucky and blessed to be doing what I'm doing because I just don't know what else I do. You know that fulfills me. The Entertainer of the Year this year is the last question? Who wins Entertainer of Year? Of them? As? If I'm going from memory here it's Eric Church, Carrie Underwood, Luke Combs, Keith Urban, Miranda Lambert. I believe from memory that's the five. It's pretty good. I think you may be run. I just voted you did, okay, Um, I just voted. Oh who wins? It's a tough one. It's a tough one because and I'll you don't agree, you have to give with what I'm saying I think Luke Combs probably should win. I think that this community sometimes penalizes people for being too big, too fast, like hey, wait your t you saw that with Dan and I agree? Um, did you say, Miranda Lambert, I did I think Luke Hombs should win? I tell you I voted for Carrie Um because I feel like just she deserves that. There's no there's and for me, there's no identify or what entertainer of the year means other than entertained me. So TV uh, sketch, comedy, Instagram, your radio, hits, your tour, that full encompassing entertainment is what that is to me. And that is why I voted for Carry because to me, she's the most that she had the radio success Luke Combs does, at least not last year or the last two years. But there's no wrong answer because there if Eric Church, why don't you go I get it. That's where I was gonna go with it. Is like, Man, I don't think there's a wrong vote there. And I know this is such a political answer, but I sort of live in a political world and in my business, but there's no wrong answer to that vote. And the reason because I think they all deserve it for different reasons. Luke Hombs don't agree. Probably on paper right now, if it was stat based, little Collins had drawn away with deserves it and I don't think anybody would go. But I do think you're right. People reward people, or or the voters reward artists that have also put in more time. Um, and I have to say what I what Eric Church has done over the last couple of years years blows my mind. You know that he plays a three and a half four hours set by himself. You know it has three different like he plays a full band show, then breaks it down and does an acoustic set and then comes back out. I mean, you wouldn't talk about Entertainer of the year if it's based on that. That's that's a lot of work. And some people do based on touring and how entertainment you are live. That is and that's fair, that is correct. Um. Carrie Underwood, who has been hit after hit after hit consistent and when you talk about entertainment, I mean her styling and her graphics, I mean all of that. I think again deserves it. Miranda Lambert, don't count her out because that's another one who has consistently been a stalwarth with in this industry and continue to have success. But also what I've seen with her is we lift up other artists and I and I think that is recognized by the industry. Um, I've gotten. We could have a whole another conversation about voting and who to vote for and wanting to vote for him, because I think that's what I've sort of argued. And this is a little bit in our backyard red light that is. But like with Luke, Luke Bryan and a reference him again earlier where I think Luke Brian has been that artist you know, and everybody said, well, you gotta vote for Garth Brooks. He sales more tickets. I get it. I get it. Garth who nobody can deny Garths you know, reason for winning Entertainer Year, and I think, well deserved. But from Luke who entertains people with consistent singles at radio, I mean consistent number one singles at radio. Um, amazing. Just entertainer and personality America, That's where I was going to go. You want to talk about entertainer. That's why I carry has my vote. Yeah, but again, there isn't a specific rule that dives into why you should vote for a single person that is correct. It's almost like obscenity by the STC. There is no rule on what's obscene. It's just whatever your community feels is what it is. And if they get irritated and they complained, then we may find you just give us a rule here. Totally right, there's no there that's you wish that there was a more specific benchmark to it. I mean, it's overall entertainment. What does that? How do you define that? Um? And that's why for me, I've sort have been standing on the box for you know, Luke Bryan, for I agree, he got screwed over. Yeah, and the last couple of years he continued just want too much of telling her he want too many things too. He got Angelia Joeliet, they start taking her off front of magazines because she was winning every hot award, and then nobody wanted to do with her because she was plastered all over everything else. And I think Luke had to suffer his success. I think you're right. I think you're right, and you know, at the same time, I like to see new names in the category. So Luke Combs, let's you know, let's Luke the other Luke took Luke spot. Let's say, you know, you can't take that away from him. He deserves it to absolutely. I think Dan and Shay could have put up there. I think Dan and Shay could. You're talking about people that are getting scored over a little bit in awards because awards are very political. I think Florida Georgia Line gets get their massive they can they put out such quality as far as generally people love it, and they're not recognized by the community of voters as much as they should be. I totally that was the example that was in my head too, and I have champion them for a bit too, because they there's you know, there's some great duos um. I think Brothers Osborne who's amazing, and you know, the industry really loves and has champion them. Dan and Shay hard to argue that they shouldn't win now two because of the success that they've had. But prior to them and even sort of um compared to Brothers Osborne, Florida Georgia Line was put up the numbers. They were putting up the numbers, whether it's touring, whether it's the radio hits, the consumption numbers. You know, Meant to Be was one of the most consumed song Cruise, for God's sake, it was, you know, one of the most consumed songs in the history of country music. But whatever reason, wasn't getting the vote. And so you're right, it's it's it's not always who deserves to win. UM. But again that's a little subjective to as we just saw a subjective. If it wasn't subjective, i'd be hosting the c m A. But it's all subjective, all right, Sarah, tom Lord, thank you very much. It's this is We've been here for seven hours. Wow. Who knew I've asked I've asked you only two questions. It felt it felt every bit of all right, thank you, thank you. Jamie Lynn. How are you? I'm good? Are doing I'm good. I was watching some of your Instagram story today and I was flipping through Instagram in general. You are everywhere today. You're on Ryan, you were on Ryan Show, Seacrest. I saw you on like three different news shows, is today or yesterday? And a big press days for Zoe one on one. UM. I honestly I'm so lost in it. I know the video releases today like the special video comes out for everyone today on my YouTube. So I think, yeah, I think today is a big push. You're everywhere, You're everywhere I look right now. That's that's pretty cool. So congratulations, thank you, well, congratulations to you too. I'm so happy for you. When I saw that, I was like, oh my gosh, you did it. Jamie lefked on me that she had a dream I had. I was having babies already, kid and but this was like, I don't know, maybe two or three weeks ago, I can't remember, and I just it's just you had a baby, and you were like you were happy over you know, like dreams, you kind of remember business pieces, but the overall feeling was happy. It was it was not like a bad thing. It was like a good thing. And I was just like, that's so strange. Maybe so I was listening on the radio when my kids screaming. I don't know. Maybe that's why dream about it. I appreciate that. Anytime anybody says or thinks anything good about me, I appreciate. So before we get into the Zoe one on one stuff, I just want to reset my audience for a second, because I think you are such a talented songwriter and such a talented performer aside from Zoe one on one, because maybe some folks they're on the young side of it or on the older side of it, didn't catch it. So what I want to do is brag on you for one second before we talk about that. And the song that Jamie Lynn came into my studio to play the first time I had met her was this one here called how Could I Want More? And then she also wrote for Jannet Kramer I Got the Boy. Here's a clip of that. And so I say all of that just to set you up, because now we just believe you're good. So tell me about this the new song from Zoe one on one Dance Well, Aggie. Though obviously writing me the creating music is like efty thing to me, but I am a creator and also I do have, you know, family I have to provide for. So I was able to find another way to have a creative outlet and being able to go back into the Zoe era, but not only with the show but the music as well. Because the theme song was like one of the castomers. People loved it just as much as they loved us, So we never fully released it. I figured, during this time where everybody's gonna lockdown, why don't we throw together some zoom co write and let's rework it a little bit, and let's give them the same song and give the fans that they want. So that's what we did. We just kind of reworked and I went to a studio during COVID like and this is like in the heart of COVID, I was by myself with a mask on, with the you know, the engineer, with the producers on zoom singing. They couldn't even hear really what it sounded like back And that is how we recorded the song and got rage. Well, and so you know, I'm seeing some of the new Zoey one on one, you guys all together, the cast. What what is it like to reunite with all of them? It was great. Some of them couldn't be there. They were um. Actually I was the country. Two of them were um. But it was weird because my daughter was there, and she, my oldest daughter, was the same age as when I knew all these kids and was seeing them like consistently, So it was really weird seeing that like side by side, like living in two times at once. And they were all great and hopefully, um, you know, hopell losing get everybody together for the reboot. But it was nice to be able to have the people that we did and just kind of catch up and relive, you know, relive our glory days. When you say you're hoping you get everybody together for the reboot, like you're doing the reboot right, Oh yes, I mean I've been with the creative all of that. It's all happening. It's just you know, you know how it's really hard to get things in production right now. But um, it's all happening. Yet. Here's a question for you. What's it like to hang out with famous tik talkers in real life? Because so they always trying to film and TikTok something. I did not see one of them with their phones in their hands. Honestly, they were there. They were so professional, they were so kind, they were so like engaging with my daughters and my family. I was blown away by how these kids are so young but so professional. I think that it's just it's just the way our world is now. And that's why I thought it was a good direction to go with, because you know, whenever I was twelve and thirteen. All the twelve and thirteen year olds like me and now all the twelve and thirteen year olds loved them. So bringing the two generations together and kind of having them side by side was a really neat, you know, neat idea for the whole you know, the whole Zoe generation and the new Zoe sing But they were so kind and they were so professional and just nice, good kids. Honestly, was there ever a rivalry between Nickelodeon and Disney Kids? You know, I never really felt like it was, because like Miley was always so kind to me. Me and her got along really well, and we saw each other a lot of events, and we were friends afterwards. And I would assume that, you know, Zoe and Hannah Montana would have been the biggest competition, but for me, I was a kind of Montana's gossips me, and she's huge. There's no competing with that, you know. So for me, I was just like, I'm lucky. I get to do something I love to do, and it's really neat to meet other kids who do it. So I never felt that, but I definitely know that, like there was that with some other kids that were in like our young Hollywood group with your oldest daughter. Does she think you're cool yet outside of being her mom because of what of Zoe? Or are you cooler now because you get to introduce her to other people that she really thinks cool? She does not think I'm cool. Embarrassing, very high. But for the first time when I told her that you know Dixie Demilio and no, that she doesn't even have a TikTok account, but just her friends. They all have them and stuff, so she just knows who these people are. It's just her generation. She told me she was proud of me today. Yeah. I was like, well, what hell I have made it? I tell you she was proud of me because she said, you know, I see you everywhere and my friends are talking about you, and I got to meet these people and thank you, Mama. I'm just so proud of you. And I was just made me so happy to talk you did with your daughters where you were walking in front of them and they weren't looking up at you at all. Quite funny. Okay, well, that video calls like a big destruction in my house. I had to say time my manager with my daughter with me, and I was like Maddie's telling me, I cannot post this. That is so embarrassing that I would shake my butt in front of the camera like that hurt school about how I shook my butt in front of camera, and my managers just like laugh is like Maddie and so like I showed a few people being is this that bad? And she because she knew that, like I said, y'all just sit here and don't pay attention. And then when I did that, she was very angry with me. So I ended up posting it. Anyways. You know, I gotta do what you gotta do for those likes, right you're preaching to the choir absolutely, Okay, listen, everybody out there listening to me. Right now, the official music video for Follow Me Zoe one on one has already premiered. By the time you hear this, um, the Zoe one on one revival will be a half reunion, half complete reboot. That's right, right, Jamie Lynn, Yes, yes, okay, I'm in. I'm such a big fan of you and your music career. You're being a mom traveling around with your daughter's softball team. It was like you were the coach. You're everywhere they were. You were just you as a person. I'm just such a big fan, so anytime you need anything, you can always reach out to me. Thank you so much, Bobby, you are the best. Yes, I am the softball team mom happy you know that proud, proudest title. So you're the best. I'm so happy for you. I wish you all of the best things in the whole entire world is to see face starts for you. Thank you, Jamie and talk to you soon hopefully. Thank you. Bye bye.