Episode 28: Increasing Arousal

Hi everybody, welcome to the Canine Connection
podcast. So there's so much talk about arousal
and high arousal and how to lower and manage
it. To be honest, I was talking to somebody about
this the other day. I want I'm going to actually
do a little survey on Facebook because I said
to her, I feel like the majority of the dogs
are probably not high arousal. The majority of
dogs out there are probably low to moderate arousal.
And I think that we should be talking more about.
helping those dogs right like how to raise arousal
when dogs don't innately have that magic switch
that just spills into high arousal at the drop
of a hat um so i had i think my first dog that
i trained was a breed dog right so he was just
like a happy -go -lucky And you could argue right
in hindsight, he still probably could go into
higher arousal more easily than a lot of other
dogs. Cause look, reality is what it is. It doesn't
mean, you know, if you have a boxer doesn't mean
you shouldn't train it, but a boxer or a Rhodesian
Ridgeback is not going, you're not going to get
that dog looking like. a gold a high drive golden
or a border collie or a high drive field lab
which isn't to say they shouldn't do it or they
shouldn't work it's just gonna means you have
to they're gonna look different and you have
to do things differently because they might not
be that interested in food right i mean my training
partner uses like filet mignon like literally
and even like even then he's like oh that's yummy
he's not like oh my like i look at it sometimes
i'm like dude can i have some of that like it's
it looks really good you know the dog doesn't
want to tug like it has no interest in tugging
right at all right You know, you're like, oh,
it's a sight hound lure coursing. Yeah. So, so
like, yeah, I'll run after the bag, you know,
but he's not going to go super crazy about it.
So like, it doesn't mean you shouldn't train
them. Absolutely not. You should. Right. But
a, you have to have realistic expectations. Which
doesn't mean you should shoot low. Cause I'm
like a huge proponent of like, I am totally against
saying, well, it's a Rhodesian. It can't do it.
No, you should aim high. You should absolutely
aim high and shoot for that. Cause you will get
your dog so much further that way. But you should
also be realistic. Right. And you're going to
have to be very creative. Yep. And. think outside
the box and say okay i think and i think the
first step is look at your dog in life like what
does your dog find interesting that gets their
arousal up right um is it the mailman oh we don't
do we still have mailmen or women well the ups
that's a big thing for my dogs yes amazon um
you know people delivery people in general people
so what is it that this dog finds exciting maybe
it's a combination of certain food that you only
use for training right um maybe you and then
you have to kind of have a hierarchy too like
he has food that he uses for general training
and then he started using the dog's meals because
that is way more exciting for the dog for certain
aspects of training because if you use something
all the time it's like when I was young and I
worked in a bakery at first I ate everything
like everything Because I get there at six in
the morning and everything was just out of the
oven. I was like, oh, my God. And then to this
day, I am completely uninterested in most baked
goods because I ate too much of it. Well, that's
the thing, like, because I tell people, like,
if you hit your ceiling in the first five seconds,
like, where are you going from there? same thing
with like your you know whatever reinforcer you're
using like if you come out of the gate every
time using the highest most powerful thing then
where can you go beyond that like you gotta then
you gotta be really creative yeah so you want
to have a hierarchy and you want to think about
how you're using it it's also um you can also
be creative with your delivery right um So with
Mason, you, we do cookie tosses. Those are way
more exciting than handing him a cookie, right?
Like I could just say yes and hand my dogs a
piece of lettuce and they're super happy. Ain't
gonna work for Mason, right? So we need, so cookie
tosses, he finds very exciting. Now, again, we
had to. put that into the dog, right? So in other
words, toss a cookie, Mason, Mason, Mason, runs
back, toss another cookie, Mason, Mason, Mason,
toss another cookie. So we just did that activity
in isolation for weeks until that game became
really fun for him. We didn't right away go,
let's do it and now do something for the game.
Right. To make the game valuable in and of itself.
Yeah. First, you got to like kind of manufacture
that a little bit for the dog. For sure. Right.
And put that effort in like different. There
are different games like I think you've done
this one, Laurie, where were you the flip game?
It's a I didn't make this up. It's a Julie Flannery
thing, I want to say, where you like. Well, you
do. I don't do it because my dogs would like
eat my hands. But have you done that where you
put the cookie down? Can you describe how you
do that? Well, I have a couple. Like one is I
have the cookie in my right hand. My dogs find
it really fucking fun. Like if I say yes left,
they have to like do like this choreographed
little dance of turning left, going behind my
back, getting a cookie. And then sometimes the
reinforcer is on the floor. They find that really
freaking fun, like where I give them that their
that reinforcer placement delivery cue. You say
like floor and then you put it on the floor and
then you say they don't know where it's going
to be. Yes. Like sometimes they do see it like
they know where it is. Sometimes like I'll kind
of have it in my hand. And as I'm coming in the
ring, I kind of toss it so they don't know where
it is. And then I'll just I'll yes. And then
say game if it's a toy. And they fucking find
that to be like awesome because then they spin
off me looking for the toy. They know it's on
the floor somewhere. They get to go find it.
So it's a search component. Yeah. Which some
dogs might find fun. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So
there's one where. I think she puts the cookie
down so the dog can't grab it. And then she's
like ready, set. And then she like flicks it
with her finger and it like goes off in one direction.
And then she has another one. Then she flicks
it in a different direction. But there's kind
of this like anticipation component. And I think
that helps the dog. Sometimes it's that. Oh,
yeah. Any second. Any second now it's coming.
Right. Like, and it's unpredictable. So humans
are so predictable. It can't be every time two
seconds. Cause then that's predictable. Like
now I'm going to flip it right away. Now I'm
not, I'm not, I'm not, am I, am I now I'm going
to flick it and different directions. So it's
like unpredictable. And again, you can't just.
take your dog into the kitchen do it and go yeah
no that didn't work like it's a game that you
have to teach your dog that you have to build
value yeah for that game yeah first yeah because
they have to learn You know, it's like taking
a bunch of kids and you're like, OK, we're going
to play a new game today. Like immediately when
you start playing the game, they're not going
to love it. They have to kind of learn it. They
have to kind of grow to like it kind of thing
until after they've done it for a couple of times.
Then they're like, oh, my God, I love that game.
Let's play that game. It's the same idea. We
have to do that. So you have to, so you could
do it with food, like you could do it with a
toy. Now, for example, maybe your dog doesn't
want to tug, but maybe your dog likes chase.
So what if you just take a flirt pole and you
say yes, and then your dog gets to chase the
flirt pole a little bit. Doesn't matter if it
doesn't grab it and tug it. Who cares? If they
find that chasing reinforcing, then do that.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing, like you have
to, you know, you have to kind of find that little,
I always say like, what's your dog's crack? Like,
what's the thing that like your dog loves to
do? And actually a friend of ours, this is Debbie
with her little young stand. She's got standard
schnauzers. She got Hawk, her female, and she
literally like could not kind of find anything
the dog wanted to do. I think we had talked about
this. She had told you about it. And she just
sat and watched her dog. She's like, I got to
find out what this dog really likes to do. Like
toys were food. Half the time she doesn't even
eat her meal. So that really wasn't a thing.
And then so she was like, I'm just going to observe
her with my dogs. I want to see what how does
she play with them? Like she doesn't even want
to play with me. How does she play with the dogs?
Because she loves playing with her other dogs.
And she could just see like she loved being really
physical with the dog. So she's like, I'm going
to be a dog and I'm going to try to play with
her like my other dogs and I'm going to get physical
with her. And that is exactly what that dog loved
to do with her. Like, and that's how she gets
her. Like they do like this little physical,
you know, she's not like roughing her up or anything,
but like she'll push her and she'll put her hands
on her and the dog tries to bite her. And that's
what. She uses now and it actually then morphed
into the dog playing toys with her that way.
So now the dog is toy motivated and we'll bring
her a tug because that's how she started the
whole thing. But it took a while. Like you have
to kind of experiment, see what your dog likes.
Yeah. And think outside the box and be creative,
right? That's what I love about when Debbie like
told me about. that story that you just said
it's like that she didn't just give up right
she didn't go oh well this is just how it is
yep um she's like i First of all, she's like,
I'm going to solve this problem. Right. And that's
what dog training is all about. Again, it's there's
no quick fix. It's how do I solve this problem?
Being curious, being open minded and then observation.
So important. Right. She observed what in life
does my dog like? What what in life does my dog
do that puts them in this state that I want for
training? OK, now how can I leverage that? so
that i can do that with my dog right so i feel
like if your dog loves running through tunnels
or loves jumping right you could send your dog
through tunnels or have your dogs does have your
dog do a bunch of jumps your dog thinks that's
super fun right okay now let me do two or three
jumps now your dog's like oh that was really
fun well let me say sit down stand yet Go do
some more jumps. So now the arousal from the
jumps or the arousal from the tunnel, right?
Spills forward into the behaviors you want to
do. And then you're immediately going to send
your dog back to do that activity again. Now
those feelings, those chemicals, that arousal
is going to just go into the behaviors you're
doing with your dog. Right. And then eventually
those behaviors absent the jumps are going to
bring those same feelings and that same arousal.
Right. Because you're just kind of stringing
it together. Yeah. Pairing it. I always say pair.
It's like kind of pairing it. I always say like
it's I always try to explain it as like. if you
know when we go to the dentist as kids we have
we walk in the door and we have already like
what we have those negative actions the sound
and the smell right because you have all those
you know you have all those attachments to it
but if we had gone to the dentist you know and
every experience was like here's your bowl of
candy we're gonna color. We're going to do this.
Like you would have a totally different emotional
response to that. So it's just that pairing effect
that you're talking about, like when you're stringing
it together so that eventually that behavior
from the spillover, from the tunnel jumping and
the jumps, the dog now has that paired to the
behaviors that you kind of linked. after doing
all those things. Yeah. And I think people are
always like too hasty. Right. So they're like,
oh, look, that works. Now let me do stand down,
spin and 13 other things. And then the dog gets
flat and then they're like, oh, yeah, this didn't
work. Yeah. That's not a hundred. Right. Because
you have to be really patient. Like I would imagine
that it took Deb quite a long time. Like I'm
sure she didn't say, oh, this is how my dog likes
to play. Okay. And then she plays like the dog
with the dog like that. And then magically the
next day she can go and train and use that as
a reinforcer. And now all her problems are solved.
Like I would imagine it took her probably if
I had to guess at least weeks, if not months,
I would guess months if I had to lay money on
it. Yeah. To like establish the relationship
and then to make that behavior reinforcing and
then to do it consistently. and then to little
by little bring a little bit of work into it
and then a little more work into it and then
a little more and then slowly build it up over
time. That's where people really fall short is
they're just in such a rush and, you know, they're
watching everybody else. And look, you have what
you have in front of you, not what everybody
else has. Right. So. You need to go at that dog's
pace to get to where you want to go. Otherwise,
you're just going to set yourself up for failure
and you're never going to get anywhere. So, you
know, you're better off going slow and taking
your time. Right. And then some dogs like Zeal
Holy Hannah, when he learned things, he... It
was painful. Like if I tried to raise his arousal
at all and teach him something, he was like,
nope, nope, can't do it. Nope, can't do it. So
I would teach him something and it was like watching
paint dry so slow, right? Like I was like, I
wanted to poke my eyeballs out. Well, then that's
where it gets hard because. We don't like what
we're seeing as we're teaching. You know what
I mean? Like that gradual gradient, you know,
uphill struggle to like get the dog. Like, and
sometimes it is that slow, like with Debbie and
you, and you don't like what that looks like.
It doesn't feel good, but you have to be patient,
you know, and give it time. I always say, just
let it marinate. Keep at it. Keep cooking it.
It'll come. Yeah. And we were taught like I was
originally taught, right? Oh, you have to it
has to be fast when you teach it or it will be
slow forever. Wrong. Couldn't be more wrong.
Because finally, I just I was like, whatever.
OK, fine. I'll just it is what it is. I'll just
teach it to him. This is his style. I can't you
know, I'm just going to let it go. And it was
like eventually when. As he got more and more
confident, he would get a little bit faster and
then a little bit faster and then a little bit
faster. And then over time, he got really fast.
So I just had to be patient and it did come as
he got more confident. But when he was not confident,
I could not force that on him. All it was doing
was adding pressure. Right. And I think the other
thing people do is they get a little desperate.
Right. We get desperate. Come on, buddy. Let's
go. You can do it. Oh, God. And and if you again
observation. Yeah. Look at the dog. The dog's
going like. Like it's looking away. It's body
slinking. It's eyes are well. I think it's not
comfortable with that. It's perceiving that as
pressure. So we think we're like cheerleading
the dog and helping the dog and like, yes, you
can do it. And the dog's like, oh God. And well,
you're doing the opposite. Inadvertently, you're
adding pressure and you're making the dog even
more flat. Yep. Yep. For sure. You have to. And
like, I see, I'm very, I'm a lot of dog. Like
I'm a lot of dog. Like, so I'm like, so when
I do a seminar, like with my dogs, well, I couldn't
do this with zeal, but with my other dogs, I'm
like, yes. Wow. Buddy. That's amazing. I'll take
someone's dog. Right. I'll say, well, your dog
went for me. Yeah. Okay. I'll take the dog. I'll
show the dog. The dog does it. I go, yes. And
the dog's like, ah, sorry, buddy. Sorry. Sorry.
I overdid it. Sorry. I just freaked you out.
The dog's like whole dogs, like a pancake on
the ground. Like this woman's total that happened
to me at camp. And I was like, let me see your
Aussie. And I was like, I got over the top and
I actually like went to go like, give it like,
you know, it's like football players when they
slap you on the ass, you know? So I like went
out and did that to the dog. Holy shit. I felt
so bad because the rest of the fucking weekend,
the dog would see me and like hide me. Yeah.
The dog's like, dude, you're a lot. You're terrifying.
Yeah. So zeal. So when, so I wanted him to tug,
he would not tug. He was like, dude, I'm like,
he wouldn't even like, he was so, I was just,
so I had to learn to be a very quiet, like shut
the hell up. Right. I had to lower my energy,
which was super hard, like really low energy.
So the way I taught him to tug, which by the
way, took like eight months. Okay. Was I had
to turn my back to him. I could not even face
him. Turn my back to him and held my arm way
out behind me with the toy. And then I would
just like move the toy, move the toy. And if
he just like put his mouth on it, I would immediately
like stop moving. ever so slightly gently just
do a steady little pull and then that was it
and so I would take him out before I even trained
or did anything in the morning when he was fresh
and I would just do that a few times and if I
made a tiny teeny little bit of progress I would
stop I wasn't like oh I'm gonna go for more I'm
gonna go for more because I would lose him and
then he'd be like I'm out so I was like I'm just
gonna do a teeny tiny little bit go for a teeny
tiny little bit of progress and I'm out yeah
like tiny bit and and then he would hold it just
a little bit longer and I couldn't go yes or
good or anything because he would drop it so
I would just say nothing right and I would just
low energy and then a little bit more and then
a little bit more and then I would eventually
like bring my arm a little bit closer to my body
and it's still no eye contact because eye contact
is confrontational to him and he'd be like I'm
out because he was too soft too respectful he'd
be like oh I'm out I don't know okay I'm done
right now This dog will full frontal, he will
put his front paws on me, wail into me, steal
the toy, bite me, full on frontal tug with me.
I can like tug and take my other hand and like
hit his body, push his, like try to push his
head off the tub. But holy cow, that took an
enormous amount of work. Yeah. But it was worth
it, right? And that's what people have to understand.
Like you have to be willing to put that time
and effort in and you will get what you want,
right? Like you put it as a challenge. Like I
think of those things as a challenge, you know,
like, hmm, like. how can I get this dog to tug?
Cause people are like, ah, you're not going to
get that dog to play. That dog's not going to
want to play. Well, that right there is like
fuel to the fire for me, you know, like, Hmm,
let's see, what can we do it? And that's the
thing, like however long it takes, but you do
have to do it super incrementally. And one of
the big things I always tell people, like when
you're doing stuff like that with the dogs, especially
with the play stuff is you just want to do it
in small pieces and. You have to, like, I always
say, like, you end the game before the dog does.
Like, that's a big one. Even if you get, like,
two seconds of the dog engaging on the tug or
whatever with you at the play, just be like,
okay, buddy, that was it. All done. Leaving them
kind of wanting more. That's a big one. That's
huge. It's huge. Yeah. And then the other thing
is, too, like, you could get help, for example.
I got a lot of help just in general on tug and
from ring sport people. Right. So, um, back in
the day, this goes to show how old I am. There's
a DVD on how to teach your dog how to tug. And
there were so many valuable things in there.
Like don't push the toy towards the dog. There
are no rabbits was the quote, right? The rabbit
jump into the dog's mouth. Like if you push the
toy towards the dog, or sometimes if you go to
play with your dog and you move towards your
dog, you're going to push your dog away from
you. So you need to like, turn your head away,
turn. your eyes away, turn your body away. So
you're taking pressure off the dog to invite
the dog, like into your space, how to use the
flirt pole to get your dog to want to bite onto
it. And then how to get your dog to hold, stay
holding onto it. Like you may need to go to somebody
or, you know, now there's online stuff. on how
to do that. And then maybe still that method,
maybe you could only use pieces of it. Right.
So again, like you have to be willing to experiment
and watch your dog and see, okay, for this dog,
like what, what pieces of this is going to work
for this dog and what pieces are not right. Um,
some dogs like to chase you, right. They might
like, Just like it if you're, like, ready, set,
and then you run away. I tried that with Zaina.
She just stands there and watches me go, like.
Bye, bitch. It's hilarious. She's like, uh -huh.
See you later. But Zeal loved it. Like, Zeal
thought that was really fun. So I'd be healing
him, and I'd go. ready yeah two three and then
I'd like take off and run and he's like where
are you going and he thought that was like really
fun Zaina just literally like stops healing and
watches me run and she's like I don't mean to
laugh because I can like see that Yeah. Yeah.
You know, and you do, you have to kind of find
like how they like to play, like ever, ever loves
to pretend like she's going to kill me. Like
I have to be a, I pretend to be afraid of her.
I pretend like she's like, I'm afraid she's going
to bite me. Like she fucking loves that. Like
she'll corner me in the bathroom and I'll act
like she's going to like. kill me. Oh my God.
It sends her like so jacked up because you know,
that's just like what she likes to do. Well,
think about it. You're being prey, right? Dogs
are prey animals. So the problem is humans like
to play like Rottweilers, right? Like, oh, I'm
getting it. Come on, buddy. Let's play. Holy
Hannah. Like that's, you're basically saying
the dog, I want to fight you. And most dogs are
going to be like, ah, like I'm out. Like I'm,
I'm a polite dog. Like you're telling me to back
off. I'm going to do exactly what you say. I'm
out. Right. Pray. And that's what they were saying
with the suicide rabbits. Right. Like, don't
go towards the dog, like run away. And like with,
um, ring sport people, like. When the dog first
bites, they'll go like, ah, ah. And they'll like
fall to the floor. Like you got me. You killed
me. You won. You won. Yeah. It's not a competition.
Like it's not, we're not competing with the dog.
It's let the dog win and think they got you.
They caught you. That's what's going to raise
their confidence. Right. Right. That's what's
going to now. I should put a caveat here. Right.
if you're playing a game and you're acting like
you're prey and your dog's actually trying to
kill you yeah another episode but we're talking
about dogs that like you know Get on the floor
with your dog, for God's sakes, people. Like,
get on the floor. Like, you know, when you go
to do yoga or you sit on the floor for something,
what happens? They immediately come over to you.
Yeah, totally. The dogs immediately come up to
you and they're like, hey, what you doing down
here? You're on my level. They immediately, every
time guaranteed. If I did it right now, if I
got on the floor, my dogs are all on their bed
sleeping. I promise you they're going to come
over. Yeah. And be like, what are you doing down
there? And they want to play. They do. Right.
So get on the floor with your dog and see, like,
how does your dog like to play on the floor?
And you need to be genuine. Like, this is a big
thing, too. They freaking call you out. They
know when you're really not into it. Like my
dogs do. I mean, you know, not all do. Hey, like
my dogs are like, dude, you aren't even like
fucking concentrating on this game. And they're
like, I'm out. That's why if you're trying to
force it, you turn them off. Right. Because they
know it's not genuine. And then they're like,
this is weird, right? I don't like it. So that's
why like with praise, a lot of times people are
praising their dogs and the dog doesn't even
like it because they're not being genuine. Like
my dogs like my praise, although like with Zeal,
I had to tone it down. But even still, like he
liked my praise because it was always genuine.
Like I can't help it. I get excited to this day,
decades later, my dogs do things and I get so
excited and it is genuine. I'm not faking it.
I'm like, oh my God, good job. That was, and
they know it's genuine and that's why they like
it. Yeah. Right. So we have to be honest. Cause
like, I mean, geez. We're the same way, for God's
sake, right? If you're around someone that's
being all fake and weird, you're uncomfortable.
You're like, what is wrong with this person?
Just be normal. Like, just be yourself. Right?
Like, it's true, though. I'm just laughing because,
like, you know, there's time. Like we always
say to each other, like, don't be a fucking weirdo.
Don't be a weirdo. Just be a weirdo. Like, don't
be weird around me. Just be normal. Like, nobody
wants anybody being weird. Just be normal. And
the interesting thing to me is there are so many
parallels in dog training to human on human interaction.
But for some weird reason, we don't. transfer
that to the animals right like there are so many
things like if I just walked up to you and like
a stranger if a stranger walked up to you in
the street and went to like touch you that would
freak you out yeah yet we expect our dogs to
stand there and let a stranger come up to touch
them and we get annoyed when the dog doesn't
like it right is uncomfortable with it and we
can't understand why the dog doesn't like it
it's like what how can you not understand right
it's exactly the same right so just like when
you do things with your dog like um a classic
one is people want to praise their dog and they
lean over the dog and they like bend over the
dog and very few dogs like that right yeah and
people like don't understand that well if you're
sitting in a chair and I walk and I loom all
over you and I'm all over you like At some point
it just gets uncomfortable. Yeah, for sure. And
you're like, okay, enough already. Like, even
if you're an affectionate person at some point,
you're going to be like, all right, enough already.
Like it gets, there was this weird thing. This
years ago, a friend of mine, there was like a
study or something where he's like. You know,
I don't remember if it was a good thing or a
bad thing to hug another person for like, I mean,
I don't remember the details. Let's say it's
20 seconds. Oh, God. So we did this experiment,
right? Like we were really good friends, traveled
together all the time, whatever. So I'm like,
I don't know, man, that sounds like a long time.
And he's like, right? And I'm like, all right,
let's try it. Cause I'm a weirdo. I'm like, I
want to, I'm like, oh, this is really, really
uncomfortable. And then, so then of course we
thought it was funny. So we're like, all right,
let's like try this on different people, you
know? And there was like, so. end of the day
our dogs had qualified we were really happy our
trainer was there we looked at each other and
we're like we're gonna do it so we she didn't
even want us to fucking hug her at all she was
like dude get off right so like it was just a
just perfect example of like yeah you know How
many people could you go up to and hug? And then
how could, how many of them could you hug for
that long? Even somebody I really like and I
want to hug. There's a length of time where at
some point it's like, okay, we're, we're past
the point here. Let's let it out for it. Right.
Yeah. And so like, why is it any different for
our dogs and do dogs even hug each other? No,
maybe they lay on top of each other, but like.
that's a human thing now there are exceptions
zesty's a weirdo like he loves to act he will
actually come and put his paws on my shoulders
and come in and he wants me to hug him because
i do it and i let go and he doesn't move he pulls
me in more he likes yeah that's salty too and
loves that the only dog yeah that i like try
and do that with zayna she'll fight me like she
will be irate All right. That would be, Oh my
God. I'm trying to do that with zeal. He's like,
uh, and like, cause he's polite. He's very polite.
Right. And then he's like, all right, enough
already. Like, but he's just tolerating it. He
doesn't enjoy it. He's politely tolerating it
to a point. And then he's like, get off. Right.
I remember a novice. He, um, finished this run
and I loved it I was so happy I had it on video
at the time and I was like so it was like exercise
finished after the recall this was before we
had the sit -stay thing and I bent down to hug
him and he jumped away from me and just looked
at me like I'm glad you're happy but you really
don't need to do that mom like it was so crystal
clear like I wish I still had that video right
um so read your audience people like do what
the dog likes don't do what you like what you
want what makes you happy yeah um find out what
the dog likes find out what the dog likes um
and then even and that's a big one like i i have
asked i asked that to a lot of people i'll be
like what is your dog like to do and they really
a lot of them don't know um They're like, I don't
know. They like when I give them cookies and
see, that's a little like, that's where you have
to be playing detective and watching your dog
and experimenting with things because, you know,
the cookies are great when, you know, that's
a, that's, you know, that's a whole nother thing
that we talk about as a reinforcer, but you really,
you know, there's that interaction piece like
that you can use to pair with other. your behaviors
that you're, you're putting into obedience. Like
you've got to find what your dog likes to do
for sure. Yeah. And even if it's something like,
you know, my dog like gets excited when we go
out the door. Well then good. Then get ready
to go out the door, ask your dog to do three
or four behaviors and then go out the door. And
then. next, you know, and then over time ask
them to do a little bit more and then go out
the door. So you can pair those things. That's,
you know, that's one thing to do the reinforcer,
but I also really like to make myself part. at
some point make myself part of the reinforcer,
right? Like if I just say yes to my dogs, like
they get so excited and it's not just about the
cookie or the toy. And at some point I interject
myself too, right? So, well, even if I tug with
my dogs, I'm part of that. I don't do the mindless
tugging thing. Like I'm looking in their eyes.
I'm talking to them. And we're interacting and
they like that. Like Zaina used to, her favorite
thing was party of one, right? Take the toy and
run. And I'm like, yeah, no, we're not doing
that. So I was like, you're going to learn to
tug with me and like it. So I would, she likes
to win, right? So I would. tug, tug. And I'd
go, Oh, you got, and I'd like loosen up my arm.
Like she pulled me off balance. Yeah. And then
I'd be like, Oh, you're so strong looking. And
she'd be like, yes, I am. I am very strong. I'm
like, you are, you're stronger than me. But like,
I made myself part of that. So I figured out,
I'm like, Oh, she likes to win. Okay. I'm going
to let her win. She likes to feel like she can
overpower me. I'm going to let her overpower
me. Right. zesty he's a weirdo he likes he doesn't
even care about the tugging part so i yeah i
tugged then i and i don't even know how i figured
again just playing around experimenting right
if he has a toy in his mouth and i like hit him
in the head god He loves that. And I look at
him and I'm like, I'm going to hit you in the
head. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to
put your head away. And he's like, he loves that.
And like, he, he looks at me in the eyeballs.
He's like, do it again. So like, yes, I could
just talk with him and yes, he likes that, but
he likes that. other thing more yeah and I like
it because it like now I'm touching him and now
I'm part of it and now he's coming up to me and
going do that game and he and you know what how
I know he loves it because when I hike now he
has his bumper in his mouth and he'll run and
then he'll come up and he'll start going next
to me looking at me he looked right into my eyeballs
right and he's like come on do that thing and
I go you want to push you And he's like, yeah,
I love that. Yeah. In the middle of a hike, he
wants to do that. That's how much he loves it.
Yeah. So if I just did traditional tug, if I
wasn't constantly like experimenting, I wouldn't
have figured out that this weirdo likes when
I do this wacky thing. I like it. Cause now I'm
part of it. So now what I'm starting to do is
I'm doing it without the toy. I'm just like pushing
his head and pushing his head. And now it's just
me and you. Right. Like, and it's a work in progress.
Cause like, then he wants to like bite my arm
and that's not comfortable. So I have to like
modify, you know, I'm trying to. but it's an
experiment it's like okay what do you like and
how can i make myself yeah and this is like you're
talking about this with a dog who's who's five
that they're going to be six in the spring like
these aren't just like dogs where we just got
you know like we're constantly looking for more
ways to like interact and engage where you know
the things that the always looking for the things
that the dogs really like and love. Right. And
that's the thing. And like, when you find those
little things, cause there's going to be, there's
more, there's more in there that we're going
to discover. Like you just did with Zesty. Right.
And then you're going to be like, oh, well maybe
I can do it this way. And maybe I can now do
it without the bumper or the tug. That's where
like, I'm always going with my brain, you know,
like constantly playing with my dogs, being in
that moment, trying to rediscover anything new
that, wow, my God, I didn't even know my dog
liked to do that eight years later. And the thing
is, it's a, it's a, you know, when people talk
about the word relationship with a dog, I think
a lot, and this is what I used to think. I used
to think it's like, well, I love my dog. And
I feed my dog and I pet my dog and I take my
dogs for walks and hikes. And I do things with
my dog and that's my relationship. But for training,
I think it has to go to a completely different
level. And that way deeper where like I'm at
with the dogs now. It's like. Well, a huge part
of a relationship is two things. One is listening,
right? And we are not good listeners, like listening,
not hearing what you want to hear or seeing what
you want to see is. Listening to the dog and
then seeing the dog for who the dog is and what
the dog wants. Yeah. And likes not what you want
and like and where you think it should go. Right.
Like that's a real relationship. Well, it's yeah.
And it's that like it it just runs so much deeper
and the relationship is really getting to know.
your dog right and it's kind of like like I'll
just use you and I like we've gotten to know
each other pretty well like I know you pretty
well now like I can kind of like look across
the room now and like you'll look at me and I
know exactly what you're thinking like I can
kind of like I can read you I can kind of be
like oh yeah I know but it grows over time and
that's like that's the same thing with my dog
like my dog like they can look at me I can look
in their eyes like I can kind of start to read
read like what they're thinking they can that's
all through all this discovery of what they love
and that's that deep relationship stuff that's
why that's what I always think of it as like
and listening and learning right and just going
oh I know yeah like I can look I can be I can
look at Zayn and I but all my dogs like At a
certain point in our relationship, like I know
what they are thinking all the time. And like
my dog's communication is so good, but I'm like,
is it their communication is good? Or is it that
I'm just listening, right? Like they can look
at me and I'm like, oh, you're thirsty. Yeah.
Oh, you're hungry. Oh, you want this? Oh, you
need that. Or, oh yeah. And like, if someone
stood on the outside, they'd be like, well. how
do you know that? Right. Well, because I'm always
observing. I'm always paying attention in life,
in everyday life, in training. All I do is observe,
observe, observe. It's not me dictating. This
is what happens. It's like, it's read, react,
read, react, like read the dog. And it's constantly
saying like, can I, you know, can I know you
even better? Like, can I. you know, make this
better. And a lot of what they like, it's in
life, right? Like Zaina, who she is in training
is who she is in life. Who Zesky is in life is
who he is in training. So if we just really,
really get to know them in life, then you can
apply that to training and it's going to really.
help your training a lot. Those are not two completely
separate, isolated things, right? Like who I
am as a person at home is who I am at work. Right.
Is who I am when I hang out with people is who
I am at a dog show. Like I am who I am. Yeah.
You know, it's not like I'm two completely different
people. Right. No. Right. And our dogs are exactly
the same way. So, yeah. So when it comes to raising
arousal, I think it's don't limit your dog. Don't
label it. Think outside the box. Yeah. Watch
your dog in life. Be creative. You know, talk
to other people. Try different things. Like there
are people now that teach classes on play. Yeah,
for sure. If you watch other people, you might
get ideas, right? Like I'll see somebody else
training and I'll be like, oh, I wonder if my
dog would like that. Maybe they do. Maybe they
don't. Try it. Let me see if you like this. You
know, I like Fensi had this camp thing and I
went and sat in on a bunch of other lectures
because I'm like, oh, maybe there'll be something
in here that I can try. With my dogs. Cause I'm
always thinking like, you know, is there a way
that, um, I can get more out of the dog, you
know, and you want to insert yourself into that
relationship. Like the people that, um, so one
of my training partners, like, um, her dogs,
her, she has two dogs, same litter mates that
she trained. She's crazy. But anyway, they both
retired now. And like, so she was. We were having
this conversation because she was trying to explain
like why she's really struggling with retiring
them. And I said, it's because you miss them.
And she looked at me and she's like, yes. But
she's with them all the time. I said, I know
why you miss them because I'm like that. Like
if I don't, let's say my dog's injured or I don't
train them. I feel like I miss them. They're
with me 24 seven. What do I miss? It's that conversation.
We're having this intimate interplay, like it's
intimate, intimate conversation when we're training.
It's why Zeal is 13 and a half and he wants to
train. He doesn't want me to throw cookies down
for him. He wants a turn. And he gets a turn
because he wants me to tell him, this is fascinating.
Now, let's say I do friends with him and they're
crooked. He doesn't want me to just go, yep,
you're right, you're right, you're right. I go,
uh -uh, fix it, fix it. He freaking loves that.
loves it right I'm like fix it fix it he's like
yeah I look and then I'm like you did it and
then he loves that praise he loves that interaction
that conversation to this day 13 and a half that
is what he wants I throw him a pile of cookies
because I'm being lazy he'll eat them he comes
right back he's like nope that was not good enough
I want to train I go all right come on let's
do some training right He doesn't want me to
just go, you're right. You're right. He wants
that interaction. Yeah. And then he wants that
praise. Like I give him the toy and then I'm
like, look at you. I did this yesterday. It is
the cutest thing in the world. I'm like, you
are a hot shot. And I'm yelling at him the whole
time. You're so good. You're so, and he's parading
around and he's running and he's throwing his
chest out. He's so proud of himself. He wants
that to this day. And that's because that is,
we built such a powerful relationship in training.
That's the key. He wants that to this day as
part of his life. And that's like exactly what
you just said. Like, that's my goal with my dogs.
You know, that powerful relationship that's built.
That's what I'm, to me, that's that foundation
piece that I. that's the most important thing
to me. Like even with the puppy, like I just
talked about this, like I don't, I don't, you
know, yes, we're teaching skills, we're teaching
behaviors, but I am like so focused on just building
that relationship, building all of that stuff,
finding out exactly what that dog likes, what
he's gonna, you know, what he just loves to do
with me. That's just the big part for sure. Yeah.
So that's really what the relationship is, right?
Is like understanding that dog, understanding
what that dog likes, what that dog thinks, how
that dog learns. Like my dogs are so different.
So different. Like Zayna and Zesty, polar opposites.
Zeal, completely different. I have to train them
differently. I have to say things differently.
I have to be different. I have to. think different
like everything is different like I literally
have to like get the dog out and then give myself
a minute and go okay this dog okay like and shift
my whole demeanor my whole mindset everything
for this dog and go okay this is how I have to
be right um because they're individuals and I
cannot like if I want to have a good strong relationship
with that individual I it's just like people
with different children you have to parent them
differently like they're different they're unique
beings you know they process things different
they learn differently they like things differently
their emotions are different like everything
is different So you really want to build that
relationship and understand that dog. You know,
and when I have a student and they say to me
and I say maybe like, try this. And they go,
well, this dog is like this. I am going to respect
that 100 percent of the time. And I'm going to
go, all right, then we're not going to do that.
We're going to do something different. Right.
Because, you know, your dog and I want you to
know your dog and I respect. that you know your
dog and you should know your dog. Right. And
that's the most important foundational piece.
And if you have that, then you can build behaviors
on top of that. But if you don't have that, you're
going to be struggling. Yeah. And not just with
arousal and with, you're just going to be struggling
period. Right. And, but if you understand that
dog. Yeah. gonna work like you're gonna have
to put some work into it like with any relationship
right there's gonna be work involved same thing
with your dog like don't give up when like the
first thing that you try doesn't work and then
you're gonna throw the towel in and then you
know you gotta work and Understand your breed.
You know, certain breeds have certain tendencies.
Like one of the nicest things that one of my
students said recently, it made me so, so happy.
So she, first of all, I give huge, huge respect
for anyone training non -traditional breeds,
right? My pet peeve is when I train them and
they're constantly like complaining about it.
And this person doesn't. She has a terrier. All
right. The work she does with this dog, it is
so beautiful. You have no idea, but this woman
works and she used to get really frustrated.
Right. And recently she said something along,
I'm paraphrasing along the lines of like, you
know, I understand that I need to keep working
on this. Right. So he's a terrier. He will. periodically
just be like I'm off because I smell something
and I need to go investigate this corner let's
say right now it's gotten massively better like
massively better and she said to me recently
I understand that this is something I'm going
to need to work on forever and I'm fine with
that but I also understand that he is a terrier
And that there may be times when no matter what
I do, he is just going to go off because he thinks
something's over there and I'm okay with that.
And like, I still get choked up by that because
that was such a huge turning point for her. Cause
it's in my mind. Cause she's like, I understand
animal. Right. And I respect who this animal
is. Yeah. And I am going to work on it. And I
personally think it's going to completely go
away because it's gotten immensely better. But
she's like, it's OK if it happens. Yeah. Because
this is who my partner is. Yeah. You know, and.
Yeah, it's amazing. And she's, she's just doing
such amazing work with this dog and it's just
cause she keeps at it and she's persistent and
she like understands him and she's worked really
hard to understand him and, you know, to harness
what he does and doesn't like, what motivates
him, what doesn't motivate him. And it's just
hard, hard work. Just like my training partner
with his Rhodesian, you know, he understands
that he has to work 10 times as hard as me to
achieve certain things. And he's okay with that.
Cause he's like, I am, he doesn't use it as an
excuse, like as a crutch, like, whoa, like no,
but he understands, like he does not have a field
lab. Right. And he's like, so therefore. I must
do things differently. I must work harder. And
the work he has done with this dog, it's unbelievable.
I mean, this dog does some absolutely beautiful
work, and it's intact, for God's sake. I know.
He's done amazing. But the work, you know, and
he just takes a licking and keeps on. He just
keeps working. He does, and he keeps going. Keeps
going, keeps working, keeps trying. And, you
know, this is not a dog that's food motivated.
This is not a dog that's toy motivated. Quite
frankly, the dog works and circles right back
to relationship. This dog's highest value reinforcer
is Carl. Yep. Praise. That man telling him, that's
a good job, buddy. Wow, that was really good.
That stood really, at the end of the day, the
dog's highest value reinforcer. And that speaks
to their relationship, right? That the two of
them have established that this dog is working
primarily for him, you know? And that did not
just happen. um like oh my god yeah I mean it's
hard but it's that attitude that attitude of
like I know what I have I know what I'm dealing
with I'm gonna do my very best I'm just gonna
keep working at it and um yeah yeah yeah so all
right keep at it people so keep at it yep and
listen and observe yes yes and work hard yeah
and we're gonna have to have some we've talked
about this before um we've had so many guests
recently but down the road we're gonna have definitely
have people on here with um non -traditional
breeds right and like pick their brains on you
know what have they done like what strategies
are they doing and they're using um that'd be
great yeah because there are people not a lot
but they're out there with these non -traditional
breeds and you know they're doing a really really
impressive impressive job with them for sure
there are a bunch of them at the classic this
year a lot it's great yeah it was really really
exciting and very impressive so stay tuned that'll
be coming up coming up down the road and there's
like always so much like how do we why is there
always so much to talk about we love talking
about it so much so much all right um that's
it happy training everybody bye bye