CM Punk: WrestleMania’s Jordan vs Kobe Matchup + Pat McAfee BEEF

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Unplugged. We have a very special guest today. As you guys know, we've been expanding in this space and we're going to start doing more stuff with the WWE. But today we have the WWE World Heavyweight Champ seeing Punk. Appreciate you man, Wow, thank you for making time.

00:00:21
Speaker 2: What's going on in gosh? Thanks for having me all. Yeah, life is good. I woke up this morning. Yes, everything else is.

00:00:28
Speaker 1: You woke up in La though, I did.

00:00:31
Speaker 2: Yeah. You can't beat the weather.

00:00:32
Speaker 1: No, it's nice. It's actually supposed to start raining this weekend, but you beat it.

00:00:36
Speaker 2: But rain in LA is different animal than rain anywhere else. I'll see people run for cover it's raining, and I'm like, that's not right.

00:00:45
Speaker 1: Midwest WrestleMania is upon us, Back in Vegas. WrestleMania forty two, Las Vegas, April eighteenth and nineteenth, headlined by you and Roman Reigns. This is your back to you headline wrestlmating back to back years. Yeah, what does that mean to you?

00:01:03
Speaker 2: It's special to me. I was I was a kid who always just wanted to be a wrestler and the pinnacle of what I dreamt about doing since I was a little kid, was the main event of WrestleMania, you know, and I think maybe back in the day, I put too much pressure on myself to get there. You know. It's it's not the same as the NBA, you know, where you know, the best team a lot of the times will make it through the playoffs and get to that that finals. Uh. You know, there's so much more that goes into our business, you know, like who likes you, who doesn't like you, And there's politics, you know, there's this and that. It's not just cut and dry like best guy gets the best spot. So, uh, it's good to be back and it's good to be on top.

00:01:55
Speaker 1: Of the mountain performing in Vegas. What's that like? Obviously there's a lot of sports heading there and WrestleMania is back out there. What is it like? What's different about Vegas than other places that you.

00:02:07
Speaker 2: I love Vegas and a lot of people are kind of shocked to hear that because I'm famously straight edge kid from the Midwest. I don't drink, I don't smoke, so you know, why would you go to I don't gamble either, Ladies and gentlemen. I work way too hard for my money, and I'm not just throwing it away. I spend my money on like moments I want if I'm going to go out to dinner with a bunch of friends, I'm spending all the money I wanted to. I want it to be a night that we're going to look back on and and never forget take all the pictures, that kind of thing. So I like Vegas, especially since I've been I've been busting my ass training for this. So like man like, after I win on the nineteenth of April, I am going to eat so much junk. I'm in the right time to do it too. And you know, and to me, Vegas is kind of I mean, they obviously they have the Golden Knights now, they have the Raiders now. But Vegas was always to me like a destination city that you go you're celebrating something, uh and sports never really kind of picked up there. And now, like you said, like they're gonna have a baseball team sooner or late basketball teams coming. Yeah, and you just look what the Golden Knights have done since they showed up in Vegas. It's a sports town, you know, And it really makes a lot of sense because Vegas is always that destination. We're going to go and we're going to party and we're going to do this. And now, if your friends are sports guys and say, you know, the Chicago Bulls are going and they're going to play, like you go out there for the weekend and you watch the game and then you know, you go watch Blue Man.

00:03:47
Speaker 1: Group or whatever else, Vegas scores or whatever whatever you're into.

00:03:51
Speaker 2: Whatever, Yeah, exactly, yeah, whatever's good.

00:03:55
Speaker 1: You mentioned something interesting to me understanding that you know, you're forty eight years old.

00:04:00
Speaker 2: Now seven seven excuse me, and I'm proud of being forty seven, and I'm not trying.

00:04:03
Speaker 1: To just yeah, but let's not easy out there yet, easy on there, forgive me. You'll be forty eight in October October?

00:04:11
Speaker 2: Correct.

00:04:12
Speaker 1: I asked that because obviously training for you has obviously changed over the last twenty years. Tell me what, I'm forty six and I still try to keep myself in shape, but my body doesn't bounce back like he used to in my twenties and thirties. So what are you a lot stricter now? Are you kind of stay even keel so you don't have to kill yourself when you get in shape? What do you like what's your regimen now?

00:04:31
Speaker 2: The bounce back is the biggest difference, I think so, And I think athletes in general are bad at the recovery because when you're young, you're matter, You're invincible, you know what I mean. I remember seeing video tape pictures like Kobe after games and he's got ice on every joint, and you know, you look at it and you immediately think negatively, like, oh, he's banged up. But a lot of that was probably preventative, you know. And in my business, like there's I used to do it too, you know, like I would get done with the main event twenty eleven, twelve thirteen, and I'd get in back and I ice my neck, my lower back, both knees, both elbows, whether I needed it or not, because it was it was preventative, you know. So now being forty seven to me working out in the gym and that kind of stuff has always been my therapy. It's mentally like this is my favorite place to be. I can put headphones on and I can listen to music and I could just get after it. But sometimes that's too a detriment. You spend too much time in the gym, So yeah, I've adjusted things I used to, you know, pride myself. I'm going to do two a days. I'm going to do this in the morning, and I'm going to do this at night. That is long goal.

00:05:59
Speaker 1: That is about it.

00:06:00
Speaker 2: That is out the window. Diet is a huge, huge, huge thing. I try not to obsess and count every single macro. But the more I dial in, the more I realize, you have to you have to do this. You know, you have to be strict, and WrestleMania is a good excuse to to dial it in strict reason. Yeah, yeah, but I try to go as hard on the recovery now as I do on everything else. And technology I think is kind of advanced in a way that benefits us athletes. I mean from from Norma tech boots to red light therapy, Like I have every single gadget you could possibly name. And when I just kind of realize, like in between meals and in between training sessions or work or anything, if I'm just laying around, man, I'm going to put a program on and I'm going to put those Normat tacks on. I'm going to lay on a red light thing and I'm just waiting for those benefits to.

00:07:00
Speaker 1: Because you were going to do that anyway as well recover while you're doing it.

00:07:03
Speaker 2: I try, I try.

00:07:04
Speaker 1: I love it. You recently said if I main invented WRESTLEMANI before I left, I don't know if I would have came back. Yeah, talk to us about that.

00:07:13
Speaker 2: I think that's just about being a goal oriented person. And again I already mentioned it. I made such a big deal about it before, and I put so much pressure on myself and everybody knew that, like that was my target. And I almost think it was used against me in a way. You know, it was dangled like a carrot because they knew, like this is something I wanted, so they knew they could, you know, manipulate me based on you know that. And now if I did it before, because there was so much bad blood and not the greatest exit. If I had already done it, I don't think I would have bothered to kind of like look back, it would have been a closed book. It would have been been there, done that, experienced it. Don't need to do it again because to me, it's all about the experiences. Like I want to be the best I can be, and you have to surround yourself with better people, better wrestlers, better players, smarter, you know, like coach as a coach for a reason.

00:08:19
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes we're just talking about a particular cut.

00:08:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't get to name names or anything. But I'm always in pursuit of, you know, trying to be even if it's just that one percent better every single day. So I need those new experiences, and I need to operate and perform at the highest level under the brightest lights, with the most pressure. So that's why I always chase that Manium Maine event. And I really do think if I if I had it prior to me coming back, like I would have been less inclined to come back.

00:08:51
Speaker 1: So with that being said, a goal oriented wrestler, what is left for you to accomplish in this sport?

00:08:59
Speaker 2: So much more? Okay, so much more because my perspective has changed drastically, you know, I think wrestling can be. I call it a sport. A lot of people don't. Some people call it sports entertainment. You know, lately we've had this this rash of people calling it cinema and it's it's a little bit of everything, you know, But to me, it's it's a sport. I don't know why my SII just started talking to me. Yeah, maybe she should do the interview might get more hits. To me, there's so much more about wrestling than just the in ring stuff, especially now my perspective has changed. So you know, we need brains behind the operation. We need coaches, We need people who are passionate about it and who are smart to the business. And sometimes the best wrestlers don't become the best trainers or the best coaches. Just like how the best players, you know, like I mean and Jordan Kobe, you didn't see these guys like coaching. You know, everybody's different, there's different levels to everything. But then you have those players that maybe weren't even you know, the brightest players on the court. They make the best coaches. You know, they're x's and o's guys. I think I'm one of those guys. I think I'm one of those rare guys that can be both. So that's to me, what is left for me to do in this business. A lot of it is given back, A lot of it is treating the young guys and girls that are coming up, sometimes the exact opposite of the way I was treated, you know, old school mentality and all that. A lot of the bullying and the hazing and like, all that stuff has gone away, and I think I was a big catalyst to sort of help that. Instead of trying to be like a hard ass about everything, I was the one inviting people like, no, no, you come here, sit here. If anybody messes with you, you let me know, will handle it, you know, like, because at the end of the day, it's a it's a business. And yes it can be selfish, and it is it can be individualized, but these are my teammates, you know. I want to see everybody succeed instead of, you know, just trying to make sure I succeed and I don't care if everybody else fails.

00:11:20
Speaker 1: I mean, you've also publicly been very vocal about paying homage to who came before you and obviously with and I think all sports are kind of like it. And I think our sports moved away from too. It used to be more like fuck with the younger guys, and you don't really know what that does to the younger group, you know, so to be able to open the door and let them see behind the curtains of someone like yourself who will be a Hall of Famer one day. I think that helped bridge the gap with kind of this younger generation. Have you more respect for who paid the way for them?

00:11:51
Speaker 2: Yeah? I was a punk kid, you know, so I understand when I see other kids who are like, I know everything, I get it. That was me at one time. But there were still people that made me fall in love with this that I respect to this day. There's people that I am trying to fill the shoes of that. I know it's an impossible task, but I'm the old guy in the room now and I look at the locker room and this generation is a lot more vocal about it, whereas you my generation, you kind of didn't want to. You didn't want to expose yourself as being a fan.

00:12:33
Speaker 1: You know.

00:12:35
Speaker 2: It's more of like an act, like you've been here kind of thing, you know. But now I look at it, like, you know, like one of my mentors was Harley Race, and I have zero pictures of me, you know, There's no individual pictures of me and Harley. There's group pictures. But I never wanted to be.

00:12:55
Speaker 1: Like, hey, take a picture of you.

00:12:57
Speaker 2: You know, because I didn't want to just see like, I don't know a fan, and this generation is a little bit different. They are enthusiastic and they're like I hear it all the time. Now, this is why I say I'm the old guy in the room. I watched you when I was growing up.

00:13:12
Speaker 1: The yep.

00:13:14
Speaker 2: Hey, my kids call me Evans, Jovon Evans, Yeah, calls me ogy, calls me pop. That's a good one. I didn't know how I felt about that when the first time that happened. I was like, come on, guys, we're being condescending here. No, okay, good, Well, then if it's all love, it's all love to me. There's no reason to not embrace it. There's no reason. There's no reason to to dye these beautiful gray hairs like I am who I am people. You know, it's not like my birth certificate. It's like a hidden thing. Everyone can look me up on the Internet, Wikipedia. They know when I was born, they know all these things about me. I'm not trying to hide it. I'm trying to embrace it, you know, like I'm really I'm really enjoying who I am in this this this skin of mine.

00:13:58
Speaker 1: It's great. Would you say for your career that you know, obviously you we'll talk about what you feel like some of your greatest matches were, but this upcoming WrestleMania forty two is this is this would you say the biggest match or one of the biggest matches of your life.

00:14:14
Speaker 2: I'd say it's the biggest, And it's not hard to say that. I think every match, every match I'm going to have, is going to be the biggest match, but this one especially, it's WrestleMania, it's Roman Reigns. You know, you tune into Monday Night Raw, You'll be hard pressed to find me saying anything nice about him. But I think in this setting, you know, you can't deny who he is and what he's done and the levels that he has helped bring this company to huge superstar, you know, And anytime you get two people who can arguably be called like the best of their generations colliding a very possibly out of pocket and egotistically said this, this would be like if you got the one on one game between like Jordan and Kobe, because you can argue stats, and you can argue numbers, and me and Roman can go back and forth. While I sold this many T shirts, well, I sold this many T shirts. Well, my longevity well I did it this. The argument is always going to be there because it's not anything that's ever gonna happen. You're never going to see Jordan lace them up against you know, Kobe or Lebron. So it's like fantasy warfare. And to me, that's what April nineteenth is going to be. You're going to see you know, two of the best, and we don't have to say like, hey, it's twenty eleven, see them punk against like twenty nineteen. Roman reigns like this is it, man, it's twenty twenty six. Were both we're both here, live and and living color, and we're gonna get it done.

00:15:48
Speaker 1: So WrestleMania on ESPN for the first time this year. What are your thoughts as far as I kind of feel like wrestling is more accepted as a mainstream sport now have you always felt there where you ever kind of felt like, how come we're not mentioned in the same circles?

00:16:09
Speaker 2: Now we're we're not mentioned in the same circles understandably, So to who I refer to as civilians because it's uh, they'll say it's not a legitimate sport, it's it's predetermined, fake phony. Whatever they want to call it in a lot of ways. It's so much harder than anything else. In my opinion, now, I can't skate for shit. I used to try to play hockey when I was a kid. That is a skill that I just could not develop. So it's easy for anybody at the top of their industry to say, well, you couldn't do what I do. But every single sport I feel is like so specialized. That's why you'd get guys like Dion Sanders or a Bo Jackson, and you just like cross all these guys are. I still don't think most civilians know how impossibly difficult that is to do. And you can say, well, they didn't win the World Series or you know whatever, but to do what they did in two sports absolutely crazy. Because I always tell people like, even doing what I do, like, I'm not talented, I'm obsessed. That's how I'm good. That's how I'm this good at what I do is because I'm just obsessed with it and I couldn't imagine splitting my focus to try to be equally good at anything else, you know. So, yeah, we've always been a little bit of the redhead and stepchild. It's a niche thing, but then you look at the heights that we've brought it to, and when I was a kid, it was Roddy Pipe or Cindy Lopper, rock and wrestling. We're talking before the show. We're doing the show before the show about the cartoon and everything and how wwe especially, but wrestling as whole is such a thing that's in great in American pop culture, so it's huge. Do we get shunned by certain by purists of other sports and stuff like that, Yeah, absolutely.

00:18:11
Speaker 1: I think that's a lack of knowledge of what you guys actually put yourselves through though.

00:18:16
Speaker 2: Well sure, But I think it's also just human nature. You know, like a lot of people at any point in their lives are going to have that phase where they're going to try to tear something down if they don't understand it or don't like it, you know. And I'm beyond that. I got thicker skin now, and I like to try to just kind of champion the things I like instead of harping and the things I don't like, and try to spread more positivity than negativity. I always say that pro wrestling is a little bit like religion, Like if you get it and you're into it and that's your thing, then you don't got to explain it to anybody. If you're trying to explain it to somebody to get it to to get them to view it in the same light as you do, no explanation would be suffice. They It's just one of those things. If you like it, you like it, embrace it. I happen to love it. I tried to get out, I tried to get away, pulled me back in Can't get Away.

00:19:18
Speaker 1: You dropped an all time promo last week, pipe Bomb two point zero on Raw. What prompted Part two?

00:19:28
Speaker 2: Oh boy? What prompted it? It's kind of hard being me sometimes. I think being known as the microphone guy and the pipe bomb guy. I think my good is a lot of other people's great. So when I go out there and I'm just good, people look at it as less than. But everything can't be pipe bomb. Everything can't be that high octane all out because then if everything is nothing is if every movie you see is the greatest movie of all time, then none of them are. You know. What prompted this was an overall feeling from not just me or not just the boys, but hair and makeup, production management, the crew, a lot of people were feeling a little bit disrespected and pissed off. So I had a job to do. In my mind, I have to go out there and promote my WrestleMania match with Roman, who's not in the building. It's not an easy thing to do. So you're out there, you're solo, and I need to take these people on a ride. It's maybe a little bit easier if I have you.

00:20:41
Speaker 1: Out there and I can back and forth a little.

00:20:43
Speaker 2: We can feed off the energy and people can cheer boo both of us, and we can take them on that ride. When you're the only one out there, it's a little bit more difficult. I'm fortunate that I have done this long enough, and I have failed at this long enough that I'm better at this than a lot of people. And this is where I thrive. Just me, I could fall flat on my face, and that danger kind of just heightens everything and elevates everything. I was out there trying to sell WrestleMania, sell some tickets, make it exciting, make it real, and also stick up for the business.

00:21:26
Speaker 1: You've been arguably, and I'm not talking about wrestling and all right here, but your ability to tell your story and the story of the sport. You know, people say you're the greatest to do it, You've been great at kind of hold on it is the off script? Is this shit real? Is this is real? Feelings? Is he supposed to be saving this? And obviously all that is great for the sport. You lean into that knowing that you have that ability and you know, yeah, the ability to be like, hold on, what's going on here?

00:21:58
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I think that's which one of my superpowers, you know, because when I was a kid, I'd watch Roddy Piper, and then when I got into the sport a little bit more and become a tape trader, like I'm trading not necessarily for like matches, Oh this is a great match, this is a great match. I want to see the I want to see the talking, I want to see the under those, you know, so I would be sending away in trading tapes for just even sometimes the most mundane things.

00:22:25
Speaker 1: It'd just be.

00:22:26
Speaker 2: Clips of wrestlers standing in front of a bed sheet saying, hey, I'm coming to you know, Charleston, North Carolina, and blah blah blah, cut next next town. I'm coming to Virginia, you know, and just watching people speak and talk. And what I always took away from everything is if you half asset, people can see and if you're half ass in it, they're going to half watch it. If you believe and you're one hundred percent dialed in. And I believe everything I say, no matter how ridiculous they try to go out there and tell me I gotta wrestle a tuna sandwich. I'm gonna go out there and somebody is gonna be like, shit, this guy's gonna wrestle a tuna sandwich. What's this gonna I gotta yeah, I gotta see what this is about. How's this gonna go down? And I've been accused of taking my business too seriously sometimes, and I probably have because there needs to be a little bit of a balance. But the more seriously I take it, the more I believe, the more they believe, you know. And there's really no secret formula. I tell the truth, you know. Like if I go out there and I got four bullet points to say, the first one is gonna be true my name is CM Punk. The second one is gonna be I'm wrestling Roman Reigns wrestle Mania, and I'm gonna beat him. The third one will be Roman Reigns can't do anything by himself. He always needs his cousins or his family or his bloodline. And the fourth one will be and after I beat him, I'm gonna put him on a jet and send them the Mars. And because the first three are true and they know them to be true, the fourth one, they're going to go, uh, well, all right, I guess I guess Roman has a Martian passport. We're gonna We're gonna see what happens.

00:24:10
Speaker 1: One person who caught a little bit of the pipe bomb wrath last week was Pat McAfee, someone who has jumped into mainstream media sports media and now has kind of transitioned into your guys' sport. Thoughts on just how fast he's been able to kind of send in this space.

00:24:28
Speaker 2: Wrestling, I think has always sometimes to a fault. Embraced people that we believe can get eyeballs on our product, and eyeballs on our product and people actually investing in selling or buying tickets are two wildly different things. I think Pat was a wrestling fan who became famous outside the bubble and was afforded an opportunity to be invited in and somewhere along the line he forgot that he's a tourist. Uh And to me, the invite can be easily rescinded. You know, Pat's great at what he does. Pat is not great at what we do. And if he wants to find I mean, Cody's going to handle it. I got my hands full of WrestleMania with Roman. Poor Cody's got to deal with this guy. But you know when when he when he disrespects the business and he says some things out of pocket, he's going to get checked and he's going to get checked by me. You know, like you you can't be running your mouth about ticket sales and all this other stuff when you've never sold a ticket in your life. It'd be like me trying to tell an NBA channel and like, you know, like how to shoot a free throw. That shit ain't gonna happen unless it's Shack. Maybe I can get away with that. I don't know, just kidding, Shack, I love you. I would prefer to not have to deal with Pat. Like I said, it's Cody's it's Cody's thing, But we'll see what happens. To see what happens yeah, I don't think people. I certainly, I certainly don't think Pat realizes like the dangerous things he's doing. But you know, see, it's.

00:26:21
Speaker 1: All good born and bred Chicago. You still reside there. What is so special about your hometown? Oh?

00:26:26
Speaker 2: God, you've played there, beautiful.

00:26:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've only been there one time in the summer. They say the summertime is the best time.

00:26:31
Speaker 2: To Obviously, like, if you're gonna come into Chicago, are you a Star Wars guy at all?

00:26:35
Speaker 1: When I was younger, Okay.

00:26:37
Speaker 2: So I tell people all the time, and I have to preface it with are you a Star Wars fan? Star Wars is cool? Star Wars is great? The opening scene in Empire Strikes Back is the planet Hawth and you look at it and you're like, this sucks, this looks awful. That's Chicago. Don't go to Chicago in February if you've never been there. Stay away in January. I mean it's everything's just cold and gray and wet and soggy and icy and overcast. I mean, if you like that, go to London. That's like the Chicago without the snow. But yeah, go and go in June. Chicago to me, But I like the seasons. I grew up with it, so it's what I know. So I love a good Yeah. I spent all day shoveling story to watch it just get dumped back down, you know. I had to shovel sidewalks and driveways when I was a kid. And everything. Chicago to me is the best representation of humanity, you know, Like we're nice until we don't have to be. Yeah, the food's great, the people are great, the culture is great, sports are great. Everybody works hard, you know, and everybody tries to mind their own business and do no harm.

00:27:55
Speaker 1: Like.

00:27:55
Speaker 2: That's that's my Chicago experience, you know. And I've lived all over the city in different parts. It's different neighborhoods. I've tried to experience every possible culture in Chicago, and I'll rave about the place. The food everywhere, whatever kind of food you like. We have the best. We have the best version of that in the world because it's such a melting pot. People from all over the world come and they just start making their dishes and they're making their food and there's no place on earth leg it.

00:28:24
Speaker 1: Growing up, you play any other sports, and when did wrestling come into the picture.

00:28:27
Speaker 2: For you. When I was a kid, I was. I was an all star baseball player. I was a catcher, Yeah, dabbled in the outfield, but I was I was the kid that, unfortunately, for better or worse, like, even if I didn't have the ball, I'd be blocking the plate and I would I'd run you over and then I would be like, what do you mean, I can't do that, you know.

00:28:49
Speaker 1: Ask for forgiveness after.

00:28:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, my my baseball career drastically changed when it when I needed glasses and my parents could not afford contact lenses, so I had to wear glasses, and I had these awful giant glasses and I.

00:29:09
Speaker 1: Just had horse gran on last week. Speaking of glasses and goggles.

00:29:12
Speaker 2: See, I could have used those those horse I could have used them because my catcher's mask wouldn't fit. They would like fit over and it would like jam the glasses and I would try to play without them and I just couldn't. And it was a monetary thing. I grew up with no money, you know, So I did that. And I tried out for football team and the wrestling team well when I got to high school, and I made both of them. But I was way more interested in being the opinionated punk rock kids. So when they told me I had to cut my hair, I was out. I was like, I can't do it. You know, I gotta, I gotta. I got an image and it's not a regret. But if I if I could talk to, you know, fourteen year old me, I'd be like, just just shave the mohawk, like come on, yeah. I look around now and all these athletes have mohawks, and I'm like, how.

00:30:05
Speaker 1: Big was you? How big jam mohawkt.

00:30:06
Speaker 2: Oh I had? I had like a six inch Liberty spike.

00:30:09
Speaker 1: Right here mohawk? But what color was it?

00:30:11
Speaker 2: All kinds of colors? Purple blonde, Yeah, it was Oh. I got tons of pictures.

00:30:17
Speaker 1: You gotta fly the picture that'd be dope. Have more time behind you than you have in front of you in this space. Do you ever kind of sit back? I know I didn't really get a chance to do until it's completely dumb, but just kind of sit back, like holy shit, Like I started as I feel like you were in the stands in ninety four before the WW came back to the United Center as a fan, and then you bring it back to the United Center as one of the biggest stars in the game. Do you ever have any like holy shit moments or oh wow moments?

00:30:46
Speaker 2: Every goddamn day, really every day. I think it's one of the things that keeps me feeling young, and it keeps me engaged and wantings to still do this. You know, I have so much more to give. And Chicago, when we're coming out to Alan Parsons Project Serious in the same building, the Bulls used the entrance song in for their entrance like I'm gonna get goosebumps now introduction. So, dude, I didn't even know about Ray Klass oh really, And then I heard his voice for the rehearsal and I literally was like, is that really him? Like, you know, because I was I was like, I thought, is he is he alive?

00:31:33
Speaker 1: What?

00:31:33
Speaker 2: You know? Like uh? And then I look up and on the on the scoreboard of the United Center, they got banners hanging, you know, and I was just like, you know, and they're they're right there. They're next to their next to the Bulls banners. They're across from the Hawk's banners. You see the retired numbers Phil Jackson, you know, like being a kid from Chicago currently living two miles from the United Center. I'll walk to Hawks games a lot of the times, you know, like, really it means something to me, got to and I hope my gratitude shows through because I don't. I'm not still just doing this to be selfish, Like I think there are amazing moments, and I think it helps illustrate man if you're passionate about something and you give it your all and you deal with the heartbreak and you deal with the setbacks and you deal with all the bad, like a lot of good can come of this.

00:32:33
Speaker 1: Where did the idea to have that type of interest with the Bulls music? And obviously Ray Clay was a surprise to you, But who came up with that idea?

00:32:43
Speaker 2: So I will say it was a collaboration, but I think the spark was me. And you know, when I came up in the WWE, it was a wildly different place. If I would have suggested that back then, they would just sort of laughed at me, like, No, Vince does not like to spend money licensing music. Alan Parson's project was very expensive, so you just almost put that to bed before you even vocalize it. It would never happen. But now it's just a new place. So a lot of the times it's smarter to just have the conversation. Take that shot in the dark. Somebody will pick it up and run wild with it because we have so many great producers and just production people as a whole, and I'm really satisfied with the way we collaborate, and Triple H. You'll say, hey, how about we do this, and then somebody else will be like, oh, you know what if we changed this, And really there's no bad ideas. It's just the best idea in the room wins. And it's hard to pitch stuff like that because you don't want to seem selfish and egotistical, like, hey, how about.

00:33:55
Speaker 1: We do this?

00:33:56
Speaker 2: Because the bulls used it, and you know, you're almost painting. I almost felt like I was painting myself like Jordan, you know. But then there are people who are like, no, it is what it is, man, Just go there. Just embrace it, you know, And that night I just embraced it.

00:34:13
Speaker 1: How is the business of wrestling since the time you left to you coming back? And does it help having someone like Triple H behind the scenes that was in your shoes and completely understands the wear and tear the ups and downs, up the grinds you guys are on.

00:34:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the business is completely different. The wrestling business as a whole, I think has changed. WWE has changed again. We were talking a little bit about load management. Yeah, when I when I was running ten years, I didn't I didn't take a break. I got called up to the main roster. And I was fortunate because I was on everything, and I mean everything every Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. We used to tape SmackDown on Tuesdays, so right after aw you just rolled in the next town. It would tape to air on Friday. I mean that's five days a week. So I'm flying home Wednesday morning, I have maybe Thursday, and then Friday morning I'm right back out.

00:35:16
Speaker 1: So how long was that schedule?

00:35:18
Speaker 2: I did that ten years. And then that's that's one overseas tour a month, you know, that's two two week European tours a year. That's I don't know how many different pay per views in different countries, but it was. It was so great because I was young and I was not married, and I did not have kids. I had no responsibility.

00:35:39
Speaker 1: Like I bought a.

00:35:40
Speaker 2: House that was just lock it and leave it. And I locked it and I left it, you know, and I lived out of a suitcase. I lived like a pirate and it was the greatest thing for me. But I always would look at the people who had you know, husbands or wives as kids at home, and I saw how hard it was. Yeah, And now that's the best thing about the business is how different it is. You know, a guy like Cody can balance it well. Where Cody is everywhere and he's the face of the company and he's on everything, and he feels he's not neglecting his daughters and his wife, which is paramount, Like that should be one number one. You know, a lot of us aren't felonious old seventies and eighties wrestlers who we just want to try to get away from home.

00:36:28
Speaker 1: We like being home.

00:36:30
Speaker 2: Triple H and Nick Con got gotta name drop Nick Con. Family is very important to both these j Yeah, so it carries over and they lead by example. They're not going to shortchange any of the talent if they have an event or something at home that they want to go to, Like everything's a conversation. My favorite thing is when Triple H isn't it at And it's not because oh, the Boss is away or anything like that. It's because I know, like he's at a daddy daughter dance. I know he's at his daughter's football game, and there's just something about like it. It makes me feel it's like wholesome, you know, because we've had the conversations. That's how we got to a point where I was asked, hey, do you want you know, what does it look like? Can we get you to come back? It's because after a while, like I reached out to Triple H and I was just like I knew he had like this heart conditioned thing, and I had seen a clip of Hogan and The Warrior and everything we do is filmed, So what's real? What's not? What you know? And it's Hogan, so you know, you don't know what's the truth. But they're just having this conversation and they're just like kind of apologizing and forgiving each other, and then like a couple of days later, the Ultimate Warrior dies. Wow, and it's just like, man, it just made me realize that, like this shit ain't worth it and I don't care, you know, Like and I get a call like from Nick, you know, like hey, you know, we want you to come back. Oh interesting, what does that look like? You know, is the place different? You know, to bring it back to your question, it's so wildly different. If it wasn't, I wouldn't be here.

00:38:35
Speaker 1: You obviously took a hiatus and it was what almost nearly ten years, it was ten Yeah, during that time. I mean I know that I, you know, retired after fifteen years and didn't necessarily look back. I'd happened to win a championship my final year and kind of just what's next, And obviously that's your mindset when you initially leave. I'm coming up on nine years now, whether itches were there a little curiosity can you still watch it? Or were you completely kind of out of sight, out of mind with it while you were.

00:39:05
Speaker 2: I was out of sight, out of mine with it. My wife was still there. She still wrestled for like a year after I left, and I remember I didn't watch anything until that next WrestleMania and I was like, well, I'm going to I'm going to order it because I'm going to watch my wife, you know. And I remember Paul Hamon calling me and being like, you need to watch brox Match, and I was like, I'm not watching brox match. I don't give a shit. I'm not watching it. You know, I'm going to watch my wife. And he kept persisting, you need to watch, you need to watch, you need to watch it. And then it dawned on me. I was like, wait, who's he wrestling. He's wrestling the Undertaker, and I went, oh, okay, I didn't watch it, but but I understood why he wanted me to. No, I didn't. I didn't really have an itch or anything like that. I missed the boys. I missed hanging out in the locker room, missed the camaraderie. And really the first thing that kind of kicked the door open, well two things. Really. I did a show on Stars two seasons called Heels where I got to play a wrestler on a television show, which is fun, and that might have been like the first time I was in a ring, running the ropes, taking bumps, you know, and Fox called me. Fox wanted me to be an analyst when SmackDown moved over to Fox. They made a big deal out of it and they wanted to hire me as the you know, I don't know do what Brady's doing now?

00:40:39
Speaker 1: Football analyzing analysts. Congratulations, you're on the cover of two K twenty six. Thank you very much, Legendary you were previous. We're on WWT thirteen. What is that like? Obviously you're a different age than you were when you were first on the cover, but a two K cover is I mean, that's our version of this generation's version of a you know s I cover.

00:40:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cool. I mean there's there's basketball games, there's there's football games, just baseball games. I have a soft spot in my heart for NHL ninety four Genesis. You know, you know, hit that one timer. Yeah, Jammy Ronick unstoppable ninety four Hawks. Make the guy bleeding on the ice, you know, heads bust it open. I think anytime you're the cover athlete for anything video game, especially me, because that's my That's that's what I grew up on. I was a kid of the eighties. I was a nerd. I love video games, comic books, all kinds of stuff like that. So yeah, that's that's special. I mean, it's it's kind of daunting to look back at just the last six months of my life and realize, like, man, like the cool stuff that I've been afforded to be able to do. I'm just so grateful for and that cover is one of them. You know that that could be it, that could be the end all be all. But then they're like, nope, and here's your WrestleMania made for you. Here's here, you're the champion. Like it's it's a lot, and I'm grateful.

00:42:10
Speaker 1: For all of it. Good things happen to good people.

00:42:12
Speaker 2: Well, good things happen to bad people too sometimes, you know, but.

00:42:15
Speaker 1: More to good people. When you're first getting into the business, what is your first kind of holy shit cool moment? I mean action figures. You're one of the leading T shirt guys selling t shirts, video games, billboards, Like, what is anything that come to mind, whether you wrestle someone or just kind of just the whole wow factor.

00:42:35
Speaker 2: Too many to name, honestly, you named a lot of them, you know. I think that's a goal of anybody that comes to WWE is, Yeah, they want to be Action figure, they want to be in a video game. That's what kind of makes being on the cover like so so paramount. It's a little bit bigger than just being in the game. You know, when you start, it's easy for a lot of it to kind of become old hat.

00:42:58
Speaker 1: You know.

00:42:58
Speaker 2: You see your face everywhere on posters, You're on this, but there's still that part of me that sees my face on the side of a legiant stadium, or sees my face on a digital billboard on like the Palms in Vegas, you know, sees my dog on the side of the United Center because they put him up there. You know, Like it still blows my mind and it gives me pause to kind of stop, even if it's just for a split second, and smell those roses. Sharing a locker room with you know, legends, getting to become essentially, I guess you get to work with your heroes at a certain level, you know. And I'm friends with Brett Hart now, which blows my mind, you know. And it's just like you'd be, in my mind, not equal, but we're equals, you know. But I also feel like I never would have gotten there if it wasn't for those guys. So I'm always I'm always in awe, you know what I mean. I'm always in awe. But I go out to dinner with Brett in Calgary, you know, and I'm always just like I'm still texting my wife gone, I'm here an.

00:44:20
Speaker 1: You know, it's just that's.

00:44:22
Speaker 2: The kid in me, that's the wrestling fan in me. But it will never not be amazing.

00:44:27
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think? I mean, obviously I see you're excitement when you explain a situation like that, But you're some guys, Brett Hart, like, you're in a position now where you know, as some of these younger guys are looking up to you as you were their favorite wrestler, you're again someone who's going to be in the Wrestling Hall of Fame, but you're still doing it. Like when I say that to you, what do you think?

00:44:48
Speaker 2: I think it makes it even more special to me because it makes me realize that there's a responsibility that comes to it. You know, I think Brett led the way. And if there's anybody out there that views me as like their Brett Hard or I'm their favorite or something like that, that just gives me all the more reason to listen to my heart, follow my instincts, and try to always do right so they can see that. And I will never wave the flag and say hey, I'm the leader, because I see people do that and sometimes it's true. Sometimes it's not who's to say, but I would rather just lead by example, you know, just kind of shut my mouth and just just do you know. And I'm not always right. Sometimes I'll mess up. And then if I'm there planting the flag like hey, this is the way to do it, and I'm the guy to follow, and then I screw up, well, man, I got something explaining to do, you know. But then when I do screw up, and if I'm just accountable for it, and there's nothing wrong with a good apology when you know you screwed up. You know, Like.

00:46:00
Speaker 1: Example, you've got a chance to meet your wife a j Lee through wrestling. Both of you guys stepped away and really didn't got to have a moment together in the sport. Yeah, so when you guys came back to Russell Palooza and you both had a moment wrestling against another couple in seth rawlins and Becky Lynch like explained what's it like around the house the week leading up to that?

00:46:26
Speaker 2: The house leading up to anything is always a fun place to be, Like I the worst thing about me coming back and being gone so frequently is that I was gone so frequently, Like I get sad when I got to kiss my wife goodbye. You know, hey, even if it's for two days, it's just like, you know, I would much rather have her with me. And now she is. She's with me. We get to travel together, we experiencing together. Like I'm so much more calm when she's around, Like I don't have a way. There's nothing voice in the back of my head to like, you know, like text or check on her house. Okay, is you know whatever. Like she's with me, I don't gotta worry about anything. She's down the hall. I can hear laughing in the locker room, you know, like it's such a it's a calming, like zen thing for me.

00:47:15
Speaker 1: But to.

00:47:17
Speaker 2: I have a little bit of more understanding about how people watch me since I've been back and watch me enjoying things and seeing the growth of the business and the industry in the locker room, since I was there to watch her experience that, to see her get her flowers from this generation that she has influenced, and to show her that I never could have explained to her like the place is different. She wouldn't have believed me. She needed to experience it for herself, And now that she has, I think I read an interview she did where she said she wants like page to vance how different the place is because the place is tough, and the place is especially tough for the women.

00:48:05
Speaker 1: Uh.

00:48:05
Speaker 2: And I think my wife kicked down a lot of doors and made it easier and better for the next generation. And she's not demanding payment or credit or anything like that. But I think there's a lot of women on this crew that are grateful for the things that she did, just as I'm grateful for like the brett Harts, who in turn paved the way for me. And if any of the guys in the locker room say I helped make the place better, you know I had to make I had to leave to make the place better. I had to I had to just shake them and be like, I can't, you can't be doing this, you know. It's so it's really the time of my life getting to get just getting to travel with her, getting to be on the road with her, but then sharing a ring with her and doing stuff on TV with her. Absolute time of my life, Like what a dream, What a dream? My life in my career has been since I came back, since September when she came back, Like I got to be ringside for that I got to get to watch it all. Just a remarkable moment that I'll cherish special.

00:49:18
Speaker 1: Who were some of the guys that inspired you when you were coming up?

00:49:23
Speaker 2: I always say Roddy Piper first and foremost, because I think I saw myself and Piper. I saw this guy who was smaller than all the other guys that he was wrestling, you know, and he had a mouth on him, and I was like, it's representation, is what it is? Like I saw myself in Roddy Piper, Brett Hart, Shawn Michaels like in in the early nineties. Watching those guys, it made me, as a quote unquote smaller person, think that it was possible to me. They were more exciting, they were more sound fundamentally, you know, like WWE was always the land of the giants, and that's great, but when you're not a giant, you know, you watch it and you like the faster, more exciting wrestlers. So Sean and Brett are definitely in there. And then when I became like a student of the game and I go back and I'm watching like Harley Race or Terry Funk in the nineteen seventies and just watching how they move and operate can learn so much. Just again, to me, I'll draw the parallel. It's no different than tape watching. It's no different than tape study. You get the guys in the room you're studying. You know, you know what the guy you're guarding is going to do before he does it. You could be the best athlete in the world, but if you don't know the plays, and if you don't know what they're going to run, you're kind of in the dark. I would just study. Those are a lot of the guys that I would study Brat, Shawn Terry Funk, Harley Race, Eddie Guerrero. And the great thing about wrestling is that there's just so many different styles from so many different corners of the world. You know Ray Mysterio, Lucha Libre, all the early nineties, all japan guys, you know, Tawei, Jumbo, Seruda, Masawa, Kobashi. It was just a fan of most everything.

00:51:33
Speaker 1: Honestly, I want to take you back to Money in the Bank twenty eleven, you and John Cena. But leading up to that, you dropped your first initial pipe bomb. Yeah, a few weeks leading up to that. What went behind that idea? And did you have any idea it would have the effect that it would have.

00:51:55
Speaker 2: Ah, I was told to air my grievances. I was leaving. I think my contract it was up the seventeenth of July, and I so like five six days before that that pay per view and I had been on the road. I got signed in two thousand and five, I got called up the main roster in two thousand and six, and I was on everything and I was I was pretty burnt out. But they're actively trying to get me to re sign. And my headspace was I think I just need some time off. I you know, like I had just had my first surgery and that was not fun. I didn't get to take a break. So I wanted just some downtime, you know, like I wanted to be able to enjoy life, you know, not on the road. So I was told to air my grievances. And I was like, you really want that, It's exactly what I said. And I was met with why would I Why would I you to air your grievances if I don't want you to because this is a controlled environment, and well, just you know, like let me let me approve it.

00:53:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got that voice down good at that events.

00:53:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, ah, so I don't think it's a secret. Like I thought I was the best. So I had to figure out, like how I'm going to be able to do this and make it good but also make it real.

00:53:30
Speaker 1: I know.

00:53:32
Speaker 2: He wouldn't have approved anything I wanted to say, So this became a well I'm leaving anyway, motherfuck are they going to do? Fire me? But I'm also responsible and I'm professional, so I'm not I'm not going to swear. I'm not going to get us kicked off the USA network. I'm not going to do or say anything that's low hanging fruit or edgy just to be edgy. I think a lot of the times we fall in that that that whole I've done it, you know, I try not to. It happens sometimes sometimes my instincts are off. My instincts are dead on for that pipe bomb promo where I was so full of piss and vinegar and I had such a chip on my shoulder. And it's really about knowing what buttons to press and again say three things that are irrefutably true, and then one thing you can just wildly lie about and everyone will be confused. They won't know. So I wove this. It's a masterpiece of a painting where I'm in and out, I'm towing the line. I bring it back to yell at the fans to make them go, oh, you know, because they start cheering, and then I start saying, oh, it's to you guys, it's you guys. You know. But really what I what I had to do is two promos. I had to write the one that was going to get approved, and then I had to go out there and know that this is the instance where it's much better to ask forgiveness and permission. And you can't always do that. And many many people have have tried post pipe bomb, many many people have failed, and it's easy to point and go, well he did it. You don't really understand what I did. To this day, I think that promo so mis understood and misrepresented. Ah, it stands alone in history. Is as that that's that's the promo.

00:55:47
Speaker 1: You know what goes into it? Kind of sounds were what goes into building a pipe bomb? How many days does it take? It? Just? Oh? That that's I I will.

00:55:55
Speaker 2: I will tell this. This is the parallel I draw. I think the greatest rapper of all time is ice Cube. The greatest diss track of all time is no Vasselline, And he wrote and recorded that in one take. That's that pipe bomb is no Vasseline in a pro wrestling setting. I did not. I did not dwell on it. I did not have days or weeks to think about it. I literally walked like I was out the door mentally. I was so checked out. And then for him to say, I want you to air your grievances and me just to go, oh, you don't, you don't, you don't want that, because you know, I know if I wrote that all down or explain to him what I was going to say, he'd be like, no, you can't say that. You can't mention Paul in backstage. If you mentioned Paul Hayman in a conversation, he would spit on the ground. He did not want you mentioned. It didn't make any sense to him. But I didn't. I didn't say anything in that promo that wasn't something that was highlighted on our television show except for maybe dropping like a new Japan and Ring of Honor reference. But my fans knew what I was talking about, and that was just enough peek behind the curtain to get people to go, what is he talking about? Oh wait, he's not supposed to say this, So yeah, that's that's the line. And I try not to leap over it. I just kind of try to step over it, and then you tow it and then you go back and forth and you craft that. And yeah, it didn't it didn't take long.

00:57:33
Speaker 1: I didn't.

00:57:34
Speaker 2: It literally just spilled out, well, a lot of a lot of it was. One of the things is when I waved at the camera and said, all I'm breaking the fourth wall is because I lost my train of thought. The adrenaline hit me at that moment and I was sitting there going, oh man, am I Well all right, we're already here, you know. So I looked at the camera and Hi, I'm breaking the fourth wall.

00:57:57
Speaker 1: Yeah. The match itself was arguably one of the greatest matches in WWE historys what stands out the most from that? I mean, obviously the storyline and the goal was for you to win and take the belt and bounce, and you did that. But the match, I mean it catapulted you into another stratosphere. You accomplished your goal, You got the championship, excuse me, you got the belt. What do you remember most about that match? That crowd insane, that crowd. I rewatched that yesterday and that shit gave me chills. I couldn't for you.

00:58:30
Speaker 2: I ride the wave I am. I am carried to the position I'm in because of those fans, because of those people in Chicago, just in unbelievable, once in a lifetime atmosphere where we recapture that that lightning you know, we're riding on that lightning bolt, and all the ingredients are there, the build was there. Nobody really knew what was going to happen. They knew I was out the door, they knew I was leaving, so obviously he's going to lose. And when you have that kind of perfect storm, you can create magic. And you know, john is a guy who I'm very grateful for in my career. You know, hats off to Johnson and my wrestling soulmate, because he didn't have to be that nice or giving to me. You know, a lot of top guys back then, weren't you know. It was about you know, revenue was wildly different then. If you were on pay review, you got paid more. If you were the champion, and you're the main event of the pay review. You got paid drastically more so. That's why a lot of guys didn't want to give up their stop, you know, because that meant they're making less money. And he, essentially to me, was one of the guys who was like, here's the ball, kid, run with it. And I did what I could, but I never would have been able to do it without him.

01:00:08
Speaker 1: You know.

01:00:08
Speaker 2: So quarterback is the guy on the team everybody talks about. They're the franchise player, but they got to throw the ball to somebody to score a touchdown more oftentimes than not, you know. So it's a synergy between me and John, but you know, running back quarterback, and you know, we every time I think I was on screen with him, we scored touchdowns.

01:00:32
Speaker 1: Who are some of the up and coming superstars you'd like to get in the ring with? Bailey?

01:00:44
Speaker 2: I gotta mention. I got to mention Bailey. I maybe I do want to get in the ring with her. Maybe maybe I want to beat her ass. I don't know, but she's such a great wrestler, She's so fucking good it's hard not to mention her. We don't do inter gender stuff barely. Ever, I did get to put Becky in a sharpshooter and that was that was fun. I thought, I thought, her little skinny, white, pale irish legs are going to break. I'll give you a boring answer, man, I want I want to wrestle everybody you know, and be careful what you wish for. Right, there's guys on our crew now that are just coming up, and I think they're all fantastic, and they're all young, and they're all hungry. Javan Evans comes to mind. I'll probably regret saying Obafemi, but man, I mean talk about the word trajectory comes to mind, right, like undeniable. That guy is going to be a star, right if he's arguably not already. Trick Williams is another guy I think for the level he's at, like he wildly like overperformed, you know, it's almost like you're under promised something with him, and then he comes out and like total package, can talk, can work, He's got the look, there's there's there's so many. I haven't had that one on one clash with with Cody yet. I think that's a big one we have in our back pocket, up and down the roster. There's just so many people.

01:02:28
Speaker 1: A lot of talent's in good hands. I mean, the.

01:02:32
Speaker 2: We almost have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to the talent, you know. So it's interesting. I can definitely say like, yeah, the business is in good hands. How do I help foster that?

01:02:44
Speaker 1: Yep? Cody sat in that chair maybe six eight weeks ago and he told us his next deal is his last deal. How much longer do you feel? Like? Do you put a timetable on this? Are you just you're going with You're riding the wave right now.

01:02:58
Speaker 2: No, I don't put a timetable on it because I know it could end like yeah, you know, and and I don't want to say like, hey, I'm really I'm really pushing for X y Z, and then you know I'm gonna make it. I just I just I remember the heartbreak I felt when I came back and there's all these great plans ahead and I tore my try sep you know, and it was just like I felt like a lot a lot of people down. I let myself down, and really it was just a freak accident. It's just you know, like the the thing was probably hanging on by a thread from years of wear and tear, and now it's just about just kind of greeting every day with a smile, and every situation is going to be different. And what I'm really proud of over the last six to eight months is I've I've done everything, every every Christmas Loop show, I did a full European tour, and everyone keeps telling me, hey man, you don't got to do this, and I'm like, yeah, I get it. I don't have to do it, but I have to do it, you know, especially with especially with this, especially with this around my waist, I feel like there's a responsibility and I'm not doing it to a detriment, like if I need a day off, I'm gonna tell somebody, you know. But I still feel very much inclined to work harder and if something's aching, not to cry about it, because we're all aching, you know. But I do very much look at that as a responsibility. And at the end of every tour, well, we'll do a toast those who don't drink don't drink, but you know, my little shot at pepsi or whatever. And I always tell everybody like, I don't know why you want me doing this? Toast, but it is an honor and I don't know how many of these I have left in me, but man to me, I'm going until the wheels fall off.

01:05:03
Speaker 1: I love it. Speaking of that belt, you were the belt holder for the longest time in modern WW history, from eleven to thirteen, almost four hundred and forty something.

01:05:15
Speaker 2: Dave, four hundred and thirty four.

01:05:17
Speaker 1: Yeah. Special. A lot of people have had the belt, but no one's had it as long as Yeah, you've had it. What does that mean to you?

01:05:31
Speaker 2: It means a lot, because in history books, my name is next to guys who have personified the business, whether you're like it or not, Hult, Covid, Bruno, San Martino, you know, Bob Becklan, Pedro Morales. These guys who held the title in an era where wrestling was changing from territories to this cable tele vision, you know, Godzilla almost And for a guy like me to hold the title just for a calendar year, let alone four hundred and thirty four days, it was important. It was special. A guy like me who looks the way I do, and acts the way I do and talks the way I do. I think was in a way never supposed to make it to the WWE. Okay, he made it, but he's never going to be champion. Okay I was champion. Okay, well he's never He's never going to be, you know, the the poster boy. And maybe I have been that, maybe I'm not. I don't know, but man, I made it to heights that very few people thought I was going to make it. I think when push comes to shove, like I was definitely maybe one of the only people who believed that deeply and that truly, so to get rewarded in that way, and like I said, my name is up there with some people that are undeniable. Does that make me undeniable? Not for me to say, but I feel proud of those accomplishments.

01:07:14
Speaker 1: You've been very outspoken throughout your career on various social issues. Why do you feel like that was important to you?

01:07:24
Speaker 2: Because it's always the right time to do the right thing. I think my perspective on it now is I understand like, if you're watching a wrestling show and you just want to see some people clubver in each other and you just want to see some Shakespeare drama that maybe you don't want to get hit over ahead with the real world things of who's a Republican and who's a Democrat, and like all these political things. But to me, especially now today, twenty twenty six, the world is such an ugly place. I understand there being an escape, but also like when, well, when when am I supposed to talk about this stuff? Because I do feel very strongly about things, and I tend to lean more towards No, I'm not being political, this is human rights, you know. I'll always tell people like this, Like the first tattoo I ever saw in my life, it was on my grandpa's arm and it was a number right, and I was a little kid. I didn't know what it meant. He didn't talk about it. He had another tattoo of his wife on his forearm.

01:08:31
Speaker 1: You know.

01:08:33
Speaker 2: But you just kind of you grow up and you learn things from history books, and then you learn that a lot of the things in history books aren't necessarily the way things went down. But certainly you you either learn or you don't that there's a right and there's a wrong. And where we are as a country now, I feel like we're going backwards where we are, and we're talking about taking rights away from marginalized groups, and I feel that we as a people have never been represented by our government in the proper way.

01:09:16
Speaker 1: You know.

01:09:18
Speaker 2: I think Obama was president for eight years and I think the pendulum swung so far in the other direction that after a while, and now we're dealing with the repercussions of that. But all I can say is, like I talk about things that I believe strongly in and like on my Instagram and stuff like that. That's my Instagram. I can do that. I tend to lean away from doing it on television because I understand, well, hey, if you choose a side on this, you're turning off X amount of viewers on this side. And I get that, But I also think sometimes some of the subjects and and things that are going on are too important to ignore. So yeah, I'm the guy with the big mouth with you know, and sometimes I speak from the heart and sometimes I get it wrong, But most of the time I think I get it right, you know, And I just think humanity. I believe in people, not governments. If that makes sense.

01:10:20
Speaker 1: Absolutely, continue to do the right thing. I love it. I'll try look at these pictures right here and tell me what you think.

01:10:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I miss being bald. That was just so much easier. I like my hair now, I think it looks great, but yeah, the lippering that can do you right there. I'm in my thirties, I know that that's.

01:10:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.

01:10:50
Speaker 2: I mean, that's got to be twenty twelve or thirteen. I think I'm going to say twelve. My finisher where I pick a guy up on his shoulders and I throw him up over my head and I knee him in the face to knock him out or send him. The nap times called go to sleep, So the obvious the gesture for bedtime is the folded hands, like you know, like a pillow tucking, tucking yourself into sleep. So that's normally what I do right before I'm about to hurt my knee on somebody's head.

01:11:20
Speaker 1: So then this next picture you kind of alluded to it a little bit when you start seeing Steph Curry and who knows where it came from. For him, I feels, you know, sought from you and got it or just kind of came up because he's you know, putting teams to bed. Yeah, what did you? I mean, that's a sort of bit of a homage there.

01:11:39
Speaker 2: I I my instinct tells me that he did not see or steal that from me. I just think great minds think alike that. That's that's how that's how I but that's how I legitimately feel about it.

01:11:52
Speaker 1: Yeah.

01:11:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love the comparison though. I I love when people try to bark at NW or NBA fans and say, like, ah Seeampunk did it first. That's an honor, right, Yeah, Steph. Steph's a legend, So yeah, I think it's good. You and you see the coach in the background there.

01:12:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, Curve, Yeah, Stephan. When we see this, we'll have to ask him. Yeah, step where did you get it from?

01:12:17
Speaker 2: We're gonna have to get me and him in a room there you go figure it out.

01:12:20
Speaker 1: And if you have the wrong answer, you know what's coming. Because I found something interesting as I was kind of studying up on you. You're writing for Marvel. Yeah, you've written for Marvel. Obviously a big fan of comics, you do comic con and all that kind of stuff, But where did the writing for Marvel come from?

01:12:33
Speaker 2: Been a comic book fan ever since I was a little kid. My first job was actually at All American Comics on the South side of Chicago at Evergreen Park. Shout out to Carl Bona, Sarah, Yeah, he just gave this dumb punk kid a job, you know, Like I think one time he didn't want to take the garbage out, and he's like, I'll give you a comic book if you take the garbage out, because I would just hang out in the comic shop. So comic fan my life. I think I was at Comic Con in San Diego and I was hanging out and I think it was in a bar with a few of my friends who wrote for Marvel and Axel Alonso, the editor in chief at that time, just asked me straight up, do you ever want to write a count book? And I, of course, like anytime I ever presented with something like this that you don't really kind of think about, but if you were to make a top five list of jobs, you know, yeah, yeah, this would be one, like, yeah, I want to write comic books. What So he asked me if I ever thought about writing, and I of course said yep, and I hadn't, you know, And he said like, what would you write? And off the top of my head, I was like Punisher, And I pitched him this Punisher idea that was way ahead of its time, and he looked at me like I was crazy, and he said, yeah, we can't publish that. It turned into them inviting me to write a forward for a collection Avengers. They had the big crossover that summer was Avengers versus x Men. So I read all those books and I wrote the forward for that and they were like, this is actually good writing, and I was like, it's just a forward, you know. And then from there it turned into write write a short story and a thor annual. I had my friend Jason Aaron helped me with it, you know, trying to get the understanding of how you lay out a comic book. There's the Marvel method, there's another method, you know, like which one would work for me? And then from that I wrote a little bit for DC. I wrote some strange sports stories. I did a shang Chi one shot from Marvel, and then they asked me to write the ongoing Dracs comic book. So I did that for about a year, and yeah, it was it was. It was tough, but it was fun. It was stressful but rewarding, just like anything else, you know, you got to to work at it. And I couldn't believe they let me get away with you.

01:15:03
Speaker 1: Do you have any writing in your background or just just love the book so much you kind of got the grasp of it.

01:15:09
Speaker 2: No, I think I'm not going to say it's easy for me to write, but I think it's it's a tool in my toolbox that goes. That comes from promos, comes from being able to cut a promo at the top of a hat. But also if I have the time and the means to be able to write something, I can do that too.

01:15:29
Speaker 1: So, like you know, just.

01:15:32
Speaker 2: Another one of the sharpened tools in my toolbox that I got to kind of flex and exercise.

01:15:37
Speaker 1: It's a lot of fun quick hitters. First thing to come to mind, let us know an album you can listen to with no skips.

01:15:47
Speaker 2: The second Ran Sid album Let's Go.

01:15:51
Speaker 1: If see Him Punk wasn't a wrestler, what he what would he have been?

01:15:56
Speaker 2: I think Debtor in jail is. I think that's a good answer.

01:16:01
Speaker 1: Your greatest match.

01:16:06
Speaker 2: Seem punk? John Cena, I always forget if it was Dallas or Houston a week before WrestleMania to find out who wrestles Rock at WrestleMania. That that one the one We're stuck him with the pile driver yeah.

01:16:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, the most physically grueling match of your career? Was it that one?

01:16:28
Speaker 2: No, no hands down CM Punk brock Lessner Summer Slam, Yeah, Staple Center.

01:16:34
Speaker 1: That's a big boy, Yeah, real big boy. Top three cities to wrestle.

01:16:41
Speaker 2: In Chicago, New York, Tokyo.

01:16:51
Speaker 1: Tokyo a non combat sport that you have the best chance of going proing.

01:17:00
Speaker 2: They're all combat sport. Do you consider basketball combat sport? That's what I'm saying.

01:17:07
Speaker 1: I grew up.

01:17:08
Speaker 2: I grew up watching the Pistons. You can't tell me that it wasn't a combat sport, as Dennis Rodman Jesus non combat sport baseball, And again we're coming off a couple of guys in Anaheim swinging baseballs at each other like brass knuckles. So baseball might be a contact sport too.

01:17:30
Speaker 1: And Mount Rushmore, and don't be shy of Chicago athletes. I'm going to be.

01:17:37
Speaker 2: I'm going to be that that really annoying liberal who's gonna say but I do. I do this for two reasons. Number one, it gives me two extra spots. But Mount Rushmore, before we decided to carve white men's faces in, it was a I think it was either a Sewe or Lakota. Very spiritual site. It's called six Grandfathers, So now I get.

01:18:01
Speaker 1: Six o O. There you go.

01:18:03
Speaker 2: I like that also shout out to where you know Mount Rushmore comes from Michael Jordan. God with the Blackhawks. It's like it's almost so hard because my perspective is different because I'm a kid from the eighties. So it's like I want to say Jeremy Ronick, but I really do feel because of the Cups and the dynasty, like, man, he he got eclipsed by Caine and Taves, and everyone's gonna pick Caine over Taves. But I mean, I love I love my captain.

01:18:43
Speaker 1: Well it is mine when you created two extra spots, okay.

01:18:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Well, well, I think it speaks to Jordan's ability and just the coverage he got that he's I feel he's always going to be number one with a bullet. I'll go Anthony Rizzo. Okay, I think he helped usher in that that Cubs team that broke the curse and won a World Series. I I will go Patrick Kane just because he's the greatest American born skater the NHL has ever seen. I think I think Mike Madonna's a good number two. I think because he recently passed and he was a pro wrestler, and he was so paramount to the eighty five Chicago Bears defense. You gotta go Steve Manga McMichael. So that's four.

01:19:50
Speaker 1: He did wrestle.

01:19:51
Speaker 2: I forgot him, he did. He was a four horseman. Yeah, yeah, ah.

01:19:58
Speaker 1: Man, Walter pig Mount there.

01:20:01
Speaker 2: Ah see, Okay, you hit it, you sweetness, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you gotta put the hawk.

01:20:10
Speaker 1: I got a great picture of him, do you.

01:20:12
Speaker 2: Yeah? He was that they one of the last Cubs games I went to was like old Timer's day and and Andre Rick Suckcliffe and Sammy Soso and.

01:20:23
Speaker 1: Everyone says, my dad looks like Sammy Soser or Danny Glover. Okay, is your dad Andre Dawson, Like, no, motherfucker, he's not.

01:20:31
Speaker 2: I'm putting Peyton on there just because of the things he Yeah, I mean, unbelievable. So is that is that five?

01:20:39
Speaker 1: One more?

01:20:40
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna speak from the heart here, and I'm gonna pick my favorite black Hawk of all time, my friend Duncan Keith. They're retiring his number Uh. He was on that blue line and won three cups.

01:20:53
Speaker 1: Uh.

01:20:53
Speaker 2: He epitomized just the Chicago work ethic like that dude would be on the ice for the longest time every single game, whether it was overtime or not. He was clutch. He's to me, pound for pound, the best defenseman Chicago has ever had.

01:21:16
Speaker 1: We'll see him. Congratulations on all the accolades and the continued success. Best of luck in your upcoming match wrestle Mania forty two. You can catch us on ESPN April nineteenth, the main event. Also every Monday night from Monday Night Raw on Netflix. Man Pleasure sitting down with you. Appreciate you pleasure. I appreciate it.

01:21:36
Speaker 2: Thanks boys.

01:21:39
Speaker 1: That's a wrap from plug. You can catch this on all the Smoke Productions YouTube, and the DraftKings Network. We'll see you guys next week.