The Historical Saga of Handbags, Artifacts, and Royalty with Dr. Katrina Marchant

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Hi and welcome to the Handbag Designer 101 podcast with your host, emily Blumenthal, handbag designer expert and handbag fairy godmother, where we cover everything about handbags from making, marketing, designing and talking to handbag designers and industry experts about what it takes to make a successful handbag.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I'm Dr Katrina Marchant to handbag designer 101 the podcast.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I'm super excited to have you on board.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Well, thank you, I'm glad to be here.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Yes, we connected, I believe, over LinkedIn, where I stalked you and tracked you down.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>You know anybody who speaks.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>The history of the handbag, where so many people lack that, I don't want to say basic information, but truly the origin of what a handbag was used for and so forth.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>All of this so speaks to, I think, in my opinion today and recognizing the value of functionality and where all this meant and how this impacts design.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So you want to give your intro and we could just get started on a sexy chat about handbags and history.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Fabulous, I love it.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Yeah, so my background is as a scholar of early modern literature and drama.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I did my PhD in that broad topic.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>The smaller topic was I looked at how the words trash and trifle get used over around about a hundred year period and it was very niche.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>But I think it kind of gave me an overriding desire to approach history slightly differently to how a lot of other people do it, and I think it sort of ties into anthropology and sociology.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>As human beings, most of us and I think communally we aim towards the positive, the aspiration of the original, and so when we look at the past or communities, we try and find what they are aspiring to.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>When we look at their actions we go what are they aiming for?

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>And I think through my study it's made me go that's half the story, because the other half of the story is what are they looking to avoid?

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>What are they seeking to not have happened?

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>And so those kinds of stories of objection and rejection and trashing are of the story we aren't really getting, I think.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Right, right, 100%.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So how does this tie into what you do and the research you've come across with handbags from the horror genre story to these particular time periods?

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So after I finished studying, I decided that I wanted to avoid being an academic full time.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I wanted to do that, so well done.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>This is where I want to object myself, and so I looked into various things and I realized I wanted to work in heritage.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>And there's a group of people who work in my country and I believe, in your country too and they are called live costumed historic interpreters, and they are people that get dressed up in clothes without zips and frequently without poppers, and they tell the stories of the past in reconstructed and period appropriate dress.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>And through doing that it's that kind of it merged, that experimental archaeology part of it, and it gave me this other understanding of how the past might have worked.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I don't think that experimental archaeology is the full story, but I think that through doing that, you can uncover things that you might not have uncovered otherwise, and one of the things that I love the most and also fueled my fury about how women's clothes design today is I'm putting on these garments and I can fit so many things into pockets and bags that are, in some cases, completely discreet in this elaborate garment.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It doesn't ruin the line, it is secure under about five layers of petticoats and I thought to myself we've lost something in the functionality of what a handbag is supposed to be.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So, in doing all this research and so forth, I think one of your studies, something of yours, caught my eye in terms of the origin from this time period, of what a handbag was about, the kind of handbags they used.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Can you speak a little bit about that?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And obviously there's this the huge impact of the creation of the pocket when it comes out and then when handbags come back after that.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Yes, so the handbag that we've had from, I think, as long as we've had image making and storytelling and people need to carry things, it's a sack made of some fabric Frequently, whereas today, leather is really aspirational.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It tends to be that a leather satchel or a leather pocket or a leather waist purse would be something for perhaps the lower orders, depending on how finely worked it is.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>When you're looking at somebody who's very elite, there are two types of pockets.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>There's the one that sort of sits underneath a dress and that can be absolutely enormous.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>You can fit a good couple of liter drinks bottle in it.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It's got to the waist and you can fish in through your skirts.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>You find a little hole and it's completely protected.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>There's also a pocket or pouch that you would put on your belt and if you are an elite person, that is going to be velvet or silk, maybe with blackwork or goldwork.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Through it you might embroider something that yourself you can personalise it.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>You might have a series of pockets to match either your outer garments of your outer dress or potentially your undergarments.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So you can mix and match in the way that you would paste together bits of outfits, so you might put different sleeves on or under sleeves and it becomes very fashion forward but also very functional.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>These are small things that you can just put useful bits and pieces in.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>What I think is also interesting is that there is a potential that this might have been the purpose of the cod piece.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Everyone sort of thinks well, what's that for that ridiculous bulge at the front of a man's pants and it is a part of me Other than childbearing.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I'm not really sure myself.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So there you go.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>And there's that there is a suggestion because I believe there were a collection of cod pieces found in a draw which must have been a surprise, to be honest that in addition to acting as the sort of fly of a man's trouser the thing they can undo to go to the toilet quickly, what it also is is there's a space to it that you can put valuables, maybe coins or a ring, and so it has that function of being able to place where you can secrete things that you would normally put, perhaps, in a handbag.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Do you think, though?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So, from my research, I have this giant dossier, the history of a handbag, just so I'm able to speak about this with some sort of intelligence and stuff.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>The evolution of what a handbag truly represented historically, from what I've gathered, was always perceived lower class, because if you were upper class, you'd have someone carrying your things, you would be buying everything on credit, and the zipper wasn't invented until what?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>The 1920s.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So this essence of actually carrying a handbag was perceived so much lower class until, at one point, somebody realized, hey, I can glam that up too, I want a piece of that.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So how do you think the evolution of something that was meant to be discreet right evolved to being an aspirational item?

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>My inclination is that you start seeing increasingly a use of designer handbags and decorative handbags and wristlets and evening bags and all the rest of it as the lines of clothing, particularly women's clothing, start to shrink down, as the proportions start to get smaller, when you haven't got 50 centimetre panniers that you can route around in, when you are looking to create that hourglass silhouette, there isn't the space for those pockets.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>And that is, of course, the argument as to why women's trousers don't have proper pockets, because it ruins the lines, I think.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Additionally, and I think becomes more your period of mind.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>But the real peak of that aspirational designer handbag I don't necessarily know how much that affects people who don't carry money today, and by that I mean the royal family.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>They are still, I think, inhabiting a world where they have the tiny purse or the clutch bag.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It's very similar to the pocket at the belt.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>You don't necessarily know who's made it, it's not got branding on it that you know.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It's kind of a l'huitant or Christian duro or whatever else.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It's something that's understated that much of the outfit.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I believe Princess Diana used to use hers to cover her cleavage, like it had the function of being almost like a fan.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>What we see is an increasing level of disposable income.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>We see a broadening out of the super wealthy that goes above the middle class, and that aspiration comes with a desire to present yourself in ways that are recognizably expensive, and so I think when that starts to happen and these pre-reporter to designer brands exist, that's when you get this craving for bags that perform things, that carry all of your stuff in it.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I do wonder how many people are putting loads of stuff in an actual Birkin.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I've got to be honest.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>They're really heavy.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Functionality wise they are heavy.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Heavy bags Like they're not.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>It's not made of lamb skin.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>You know they are sturdy, heavy bags and I've spoken about this with other people on the podcast that when Mark Jacobs bags became popular in the early 2000s it should have come with an orthopedist number, because before you even put anything in it, with the hardware, the closures, the leather, they were super heavy.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It's really interesting because to me it seems like a pure status symbol, because when you've got to get somewhere quickly and you've got to actually carry a lot of stuff, the majority of people, who don't necessarily care about the lines of the outfit, whack it in a backpack, right, right.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I think it's fascinating because I do still think that we have people who are still operating on that level of we don't carry big handbags.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>You aren't going to see a member of the royal family carrying a big bag.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Right, because to this day, if anybody is at a certain socioeconomic level, they will never be seeing carrying a lot of stuff because they have other people to carry it for them.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Yeah, absolutely.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So I want to ask you, just based on your research because these are things that I always find interesting, speaking about lines of clothing and so forth the closures of handbags and how they've evolved, right?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So, with every and this kind of mic ball a little off topic with every major worldwide disaster, if you go back to the Spanish flu, if you go back to the plague, what has happened post is that there is this wild renaissance of wild materials and, in addition to that, also upcycling, using local bits and bobs around the house because no one was able to go out and had an impacted fashion and how people designed.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And again, this fascinates me that so few people are even talking about that.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Now, like post pandemic, you have upcycling being a massive trend.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>You have party bags coming back.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>How do you think?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Number one, do you agree and do you have any thoughts on that?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>And number two, the closures of bags, because if you go way back when to the plague and so forth, in the Spanish flu, the invention of the zipper, how quickly people needed to have access to their items, and so forth.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I know this is like a heavy question, but I love you to speak about this if you have any thoughts.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Yes, I think very early bags or pouches.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>They were much more easy access.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>If you think about a pocket that goes under a garment, there is no closure.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>You just you route straight in Right With a leather kind of bag or pocket or pouch that sits on your belt.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>They will frequently have either a drawstring they might have a drawstring plus a flap with a button or even a buckle.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So those are in some ways, I think, easier to get into than a zippered item.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>There is a lot of ease of access.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>From my experience and from my understanding when it comes to pockets, pouches and early bags what, if you may want to call it?

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>There doesn't seem to me to be a lot of development in terms of appearance, closure or technology from the medieval period through the early modern.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>They seem to.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>they might be.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>What time period is really modern?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Just to clarify.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Well, everybody will fight you on that.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>But it broadly speaking runs alongside the Renaissance.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>But in the Academy people say Renaissance is an art movement, so early modern, depending on really what you want to study.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Some people start in about 1400 and they'll go all the way up to the Enlightenment.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Some people will say it ends earlier but it's Shakespeare etc.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Pre germ theory, those kinds of previous method, essentially the bags that I have seen, even when they aren't designed to be worn on the waist, they all pretty much follow a similar vein.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>There's one bag that we have from the period which has got a potentially interesting history.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I don't know how gory I can get.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>No, I'll go, go, go.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So I'm fairly sure that Walter Raleigh will be a fairly well-known name.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Walter Raleigh gets himself into spots of bother throughout his life.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>He ends up being imprisoned thrice in the Tower of London, the first time in the reign of Elizabeth, because he marries one of her ladies in waiting without permission.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Elizabeth Throckmorton Queen is not happy about that.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>They both get banged up as you do.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>She does like to bang people up in the tower and they get married without permission.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>That is a pastime of hers.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Love a good tower banishment.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>It's just at the top of my to-do list.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Walter Raleigh had a fairly nice time in the Tower of London.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I bet he's staying in what's now called the Bloody Tower but was at the time called the Garden Tower far more salubrious.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>He has all of his friends to visit.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>He writes books, he makes medicines.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>He has a brilliant time.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Yeah, the second imprisonment is the longer one.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>In that one he's been mixed up in the plots against James I and of England, sixth of Scots, which seeks potentially to replace him with his cousin Arbella Stewart.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So for that that's a treason.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>He's back in the Garden Tower still having a lovely time.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I bet he like went to stuff there, just didn't bother.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Really just keep it open for me.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I'm sure I'll be back.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Yeah, Don't change the Wi-Fi password, I'll be back pretty much.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Exactly, don't fiddle with my garden, I'll be needing that.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Then he convinces James that he knows where El Dorado is and if he lets him go then he'll definitely find it.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>And James is like, well, okay, but just so long as you do not fight the Spanish, we're friends with them now, don't fight the Spanish.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Raleigh's like Corsair Majesty, off I go.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>What does he do?

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Hicks a break.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Hicks doesn't find El Dorado.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So he for some reason comes back to England, possibly to make sure that his wife is okay and his family.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So he is once again banged up back in the Tower.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>This time it's going to be a much shorter stay.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Bess Throckmorton is begging for clemency.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So Walter's back in the Tower in 1618.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>And this last time she's begging for clemency A few months later, still in 1618, he is taken from the Tower and he is beheaded.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>We are told that it takes.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>That slows things down quite a bit.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It does slow the being liberated and trying to find El Dorado which doesn't exist thing down again, we're told.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It does take two blows to sever his head.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>His head then potentially goes missing.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>We're told that Bess takes it away in a red leather bag.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>However, there has been found at West Horsley Place, which is in the attic of this West Horsley Place where Bess did live with her son, there is a red velvet bag with what looks to be goldwork detailing and the story goes that Bess transferred Walter's head from the leather bag into the velvet bag and that she carried it with her everywhere she went, including to parties.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Now, I don't know about you, but when my kid has come home from a play date party and he's got some bag of tuts with like sweets and cars and all sorts of plastic that we don't want, I now feel very grateful that he's not brought home something for the bag.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I hope your parties, I mean.

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<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>But here's the deal.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>We are way too involved in our kids' lives right now.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So you know, we would know, and back in the day I don't think people really had the bandwidth to be like, let me go through all your stuff.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>You know, maybe a lady.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>He missed a head, though Did your kid.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>I don't want to get too much into it, but I reckon it would be, you know, quite heavy and you know, yeah.

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<v Emily Blumenthal>So in conclusion to the head bag did that create a trend?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>Create a trend in terms of a drawstring bag that, like looked the part, or what was the impact?

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<v Emily Blumenthal>What was just the fact that she was seeing carrying a bag that happened to potentially have something unnecessary inside?

00:18:53.222 --> 00:18:54.166
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Honestly, we don't know.

00:18:54.166 --> 00:18:58.310
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>There's this story that there was this red velvet bag carrying water's head.

00:18:58.310 --> 00:19:10.420
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>There's no indication that suddenly starts a fad for red velvet bags, no, but there is still this surviving bag that was found in the attic and that still exists.

00:19:10.420 --> 00:19:16.905
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It's quite hard to tell from the photographs how big it was, but it does look potentially big enough to hold a head.

00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:29.109
<v Emily Blumenthal>But to that point, as what I could do, as the story is, do you think that this perhaps normalized seeing bags out that were larger than standard?

00:19:29.109 --> 00:19:32.026
<v Emily Blumenthal>Do you think that had any impact, at least in the narrative?

00:19:32.026 --> 00:19:33.250
<v Emily Blumenthal>Whether it's true or not?

00:19:33.250 --> 00:19:39.010
<v Emily Blumenthal>If you ever wanted to start a handbag brand and you didn't know where to start, this is for you.

00:19:39.010 --> 00:19:44.852
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00:19:58.126 --> 00:20:05.267
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00:20:05.267 --> 00:20:14.440
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00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:25.420
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00:21:06.948 --> 00:21:16.851
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I wonder whether the fact that it would be so unusual for a lady of that rank to carry something around with her is part of the peculiarity of it.

00:21:16.851 --> 00:21:31.451
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It certainly doesn't seem to be any evidence of ladies starting to wear big bags or carry big bags it's, and we have some very fashion forward queens that really try things out.

00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:37.612
<v Emily Blumenthal>Do you think, though, that perhaps could have impacted this construct of novelty bags?

00:21:37.612 --> 00:21:38.780
<v Emily Blumenthal>I mean?

00:21:39.363 --> 00:21:55.490
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>it's possible because of course there's also the term about the bag of secrets in terms of giving evidence and things that show up in court that these, that kind of bags, are places where you might find unpleasant or secret things in.

00:21:55.490 --> 00:22:02.769
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>That seems to be more of a trend I don't necessarily know why if somebody would want that to be associated with them.

00:22:02.769 --> 00:22:08.549
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>When women do start carrying accessories it's fans.

00:22:08.549 --> 00:22:16.894
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It starts off with the big round ostrich feather fans and then it goes into the smaller foldout fans.

00:22:16.894 --> 00:22:21.808
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>That becomes a thing they carry and once again that's something that can be tied to the wrist or to the belt.

00:22:21.808 --> 00:22:24.406
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>They like to be able to keep their hands free.

00:22:25.583 --> 00:22:43.671
<v Emily Blumenthal>I mean for no manual labor, but Well, you know it's funny speaking about the belt bag, the belt bag, you know, the belt bag has made a wild, it's back, it's made of renaissance, yeah, it's the crossbody bag, or the bum bag as you would call it.

00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:52.496
<v Emily Blumenthal>But yes, do you think that that could have some sort of post-global pandemic tie-in?

00:22:52.496 --> 00:23:02.440
<v Emily Blumenthal>Because I've seen just in my own research that this belt bag, it disappears and then it makes a comeback in terms of functionality.

00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:24.003
<v Emily Blumenthal>It's so interesting nowadays because there's this real space between the useless and the fancy, novelty, mini, the whole thing and then the functional and if you're not carrying a backpack, which are, no matter how you glam it up, backpacks are not pretty, they're not lovely.

00:23:24.003 --> 00:23:26.992
<v Emily Blumenthal>You can dress it up, but it's still a backpack.

00:23:26.992 --> 00:23:31.040
<v Emily Blumenthal>But this belt bag is back and it's one of the most popular.

00:23:31.040 --> 00:23:41.739
<v Emily Blumenthal>Lululemon did one that is probably one of the most knocked off silhouettes right now, and today it's all over TikTok and the dupe of it and so forth.

00:23:41.739 --> 00:23:46.875
<v Emily Blumenthal>So do you think there's any tie-in to the resurgence of a belt bag?

00:23:47.597 --> 00:23:49.064
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I think that's really fascinating.

00:23:49.064 --> 00:23:56.641
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I think what you were talking about as well, with the way in which the pandemic changed our relationship to fashion.

00:23:56.641 --> 00:24:02.118
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>But also, more and more of us are spending time working from home.

00:24:02.118 --> 00:24:07.212
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>There are office days rather than entire office weeks.

00:24:07.212 --> 00:24:16.385
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So that desire for functionality, that desire to when you're out and about, you're going to want to go and grab a coffee, maybe pick up some shopping.

00:24:16.385 --> 00:24:22.962
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>You probably don't want to be carrying around a large, fashionable shoulder bag, but you need to have your phone.

00:24:22.962 --> 00:24:27.906
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I mean, certainly in London, where I live, I can go out without my purse.

00:24:27.906 --> 00:24:30.759
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I don't need to carry money anymore because it's all on my phone.

00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:35.213
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I could literally just go out with my phone in my pocket and my keys and I could be done Right.

00:24:35.213 --> 00:24:41.211
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>And I've also noticed that fashion has changed utterly.

00:24:41.211 --> 00:24:44.597
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So few of my friends are wearing heels anymore.

00:24:44.597 --> 00:24:52.298
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Very few of my friends are wearing very heavily constructed clothes trousers, skirts.

00:24:52.298 --> 00:24:54.523
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It's very the elasticated waist is.

00:24:54.523 --> 00:25:04.513
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>When you see, for example, the Duchess I'm sorry, the Princess of Wales walking around with an elasticated back to her trousers, you realise she's on an official visit and she's wearing elasticated pants.

00:25:04.513 --> 00:25:18.054
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>You realise there's been a change in the way N and R relationship to what is smart, and smart clothes can now include elasticated waistband, and so what I think is that's done two things to what?

00:25:18.193 --> 00:25:23.792
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Certainly to my approach to handbag buying that waist bag super helpful.

00:25:23.792 --> 00:25:30.383
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I don't want to have things on my shoulders, I want to be able to move freely and actually having it there, I don't really notice it that much.

00:25:30.383 --> 00:25:33.133
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>The other thing it does is when I do want to buy a bag.

00:25:33.133 --> 00:25:37.182
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I want a bag that becomes the outfit, that becomes the statement.

00:25:37.182 --> 00:25:46.842
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So I have actually, since the pandemic, really started collecting novelty bags and there's a company they do bags that are like shop fronts.

00:25:46.941 --> 00:25:54.200
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So I have one that's a bookshop because that speaks to my identity, and I want a bag that's going to last.

00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:59.538
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So I go out and buy a mulberry bag, that in bright red, because most of my clothes are muted.

00:25:59.538 --> 00:26:06.645
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So I think there is definitely in the change of fashion we are seeing a drive to functionality.

00:26:06.645 --> 00:26:09.897
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>That means that those waistbags are coming back in.

00:26:09.897 --> 00:26:18.221
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>But I think what you're going to see at the other end is people prepared to if they've got it, prepared to spend money on statement bags.

00:26:18.221 --> 00:26:28.753
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Have you noticed that, in terms of fashion trends, there's been a drop off of the really out there fashionable for a single season bag.

00:26:28.753 --> 00:26:33.009
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Are people going more towards traditional styles?

00:26:35.314 --> 00:26:48.901
<v Emily Blumenthal>I think the interesting thing about this circular economy and people being able to go on and buy used bags has allowed brands to a few things.

00:26:48.901 --> 00:27:01.200
<v Emily Blumenthal>I mean, it's allowed brands to, number one, create platforms within their own DTC, direct to consumer space, that if someone's going to buy their bag or wants to sell it back, that at least it's done on their platform.

00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:13.883
<v Emily Blumenthal>But I think it's also created this opportunity for these brands to expand on their hero bags or anchor pieces or so forth to go back and bring them out again.

00:27:13.883 --> 00:27:17.954
<v Emily Blumenthal>So it's kind of like what's old is new, but old is still good enough to rebuy.

00:27:17.954 --> 00:27:22.511
<v Emily Blumenthal>But it allows them to expand on that because the value of it is still there.

00:27:22.672 --> 00:27:32.515
<v Emily Blumenthal>Again, this is just my opinion, but there's labor, materials, oil, leather so many of these prices.

00:27:32.515 --> 00:27:46.042
<v Emily Blumenthal>Shipping has gone up so much tremendously that the luxury segment has jumped so dramatically and remains quite inelastic.

00:27:46.042 --> 00:27:52.878
<v Emily Blumenthal>They used to say it was a lipstick theory, like no matter where the market went up or down, people would always buy lipstick or gas.

00:27:52.878 --> 00:28:00.949
<v Emily Blumenthal>But in my opinion, luxury the people who buy that will always buy that Ooh, they will remain brand loyal to that.

00:28:00.949 --> 00:28:09.346
<v Emily Blumenthal>But on the flip side of that, the sweet spot of where everybody else is shopping has remained the same, if not, the prices get pushed down.

00:28:09.346 --> 00:28:21.260
<v Emily Blumenthal>So I think, speaking to novelty at that price point, a bag that I can constantly buy new ones, those opportunities because people still need to sell, there's it's.

00:28:21.260 --> 00:28:22.723
<v Emily Blumenthal>We're still commerce based.

00:28:22.723 --> 00:28:25.328
<v Emily Blumenthal>Like, we're still commerce based.

00:28:25.328 --> 00:28:26.833
<v Emily Blumenthal>Do you understand what I'm saying?

00:28:26.833 --> 00:28:33.009
<v Emily Blumenthal>Yeah, yeah, yeah, people still need to shop and people still need to sell stuff, but unfortunately, fast fashion ain't going anywhere.

00:28:33.009 --> 00:28:36.068
<v Emily Blumenthal>You know, people can say that it is, but it's just not.

00:28:36.681 --> 00:28:38.025
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Yeah, it's just leaving the high street.

00:28:38.025 --> 00:28:40.403
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>100%, that's what's happening.

00:28:40.403 --> 00:29:11.631
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>100%, yeah, which is again, I think, interesting for your handbag purchase, because when it's on the high street, even at those kind of those low price points of those very fast fashion brands that were on the high street, you could still go in, open that bag up, have a look around, see what size it is, figure out whether you want it to be functional, whereas presumably, if you're buying through an online service, you're getting none of that, so you're just guessing whether it's going to be what you want or not.

00:29:11.631 --> 00:29:13.063
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Interesting.

00:29:13.525 --> 00:29:19.055
<v Emily Blumenthal>Yeah, I mean as consumers from a retaily, a typological mindset.

00:29:19.055 --> 00:29:21.724
<v Emily Blumenthal>We still need to have that interaction of Seafield Touch.

00:29:21.724 --> 00:29:24.980
<v Emily Blumenthal>We still need to have that interaction of trying something on.

00:29:24.980 --> 00:29:30.972
<v Emily Blumenthal>We still need to have that interaction of seeing does it work with our overall assemble.

00:29:30.972 --> 00:29:42.672
<v Emily Blumenthal>And I call it the butt face, where you try in the handbag and no matter what, you always look to see how your butt works with the overall bag and you make the face to see if it works, because this is an add-on.

00:29:42.692 --> 00:29:50.885
<v Emily Blumenthal>Yeah, unlike trousers or shirts or trainers or anything, you always have to see if the bag is going to mess with how your butt looks.

00:29:50.885 --> 00:29:52.519
<v Emily Blumenthal>It's just part of the process.

00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:54.027
<v Emily Blumenthal>That's why I call it the butt face.

00:29:54.027 --> 00:29:55.894
<v Emily Blumenthal>I love that.

00:29:55.894 --> 00:29:56.903
<v Emily Blumenthal>I love that.

00:29:56.903 --> 00:29:58.945
<v Emily Blumenthal>Yeah, I mean it is what it is.

00:29:58.945 --> 00:30:15.271
<v Emily Blumenthal>But again, I was really excited to have you on to speak about how the royals have interacted with handbags and if you think that's had an impact, at least going way back, an impact on things that they may have carried that could have had a trickle-down effect with the people around them.

00:30:15.271 --> 00:30:21.678
<v Emily Blumenthal>Is there anybody in particular that you think may have had a bigger impact beyond Queen Elizabeth, who just passed?

00:30:22.180 --> 00:30:23.946
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Yeah, I mean her use of purses.

00:30:23.946 --> 00:30:36.088
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I think pre-photography, and then also because we have lots of pictures, for example, of Queen Victoria, and that it could be all too easy to go.

00:30:36.088 --> 00:30:40.488
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Well, this is going to affect how everybody is going to respond to certain clothing.

00:30:41.981 --> 00:30:44.188
<v Emily Blumenthal>I mean, that's a early influencer, if you will.

00:30:44.769 --> 00:30:45.030
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Yes.

00:30:45.030 --> 00:30:59.808
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Unfortunately, though, most of the photographs we have of Queen Victoria in her everyday clothes not the kind of Christmas card that Albert puts out most of those are family pictures, so they weren't aired for decades.

00:30:59.808 --> 00:31:02.900
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Right, they couldn't have influenced fashion at the time, because no one is seeing them.

00:31:02.900 --> 00:31:22.579
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>When we get to the point of mass photography, but also video cameras and TV cameras watching what the royals are doing, we know that a member of the royal family, particularly a younger member of the royal family, puts on a dress or a purse or whatever else, and goes out into the world.

00:31:22.579 --> 00:31:23.880
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>That's going to sell out.

00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.885
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Well, you know minutes, hours.

00:31:26.885 --> 00:31:40.500
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Maybe you know there's a Tik Toker who did a series on what can Kate Middleton put in her tiny bags, because it's this, you know what is, and actually quite a lot Doubtful.

00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:44.991
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>She puts all of that in there, but she was able to put quite a lot in her tiny bags.

00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:47.367
<v Emily Blumenthal>Do you reckon she's got snacks in there for the kids?

00:31:47.367 --> 00:31:48.009
<v Emily Blumenthal>Because I don't.

00:31:48.461 --> 00:31:52.932
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I would be very surprised if they're allowed to eat in public.

00:31:52.932 --> 00:32:04.030
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It is one of those things that the role of Etika around that that requires quite a bit of teaching to how you properly consume something.

00:32:04.030 --> 00:32:13.650
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>And also it's according to de Bret, whatever that might mean, it is very not the dumb thing to be eating on the street walking around.

00:32:13.650 --> 00:32:16.587
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>You sit down to eat with a plate Bound for bed.

00:32:17.088 --> 00:32:17.289
<v Emily Blumenthal>Yes.

00:32:17.289 --> 00:32:29.507
<v Emily Blumenthal>Do you think to that point Megan still has an impact in terms of fashion, at least within the UK, or do you think that that moment has passed?

00:32:30.209 --> 00:32:38.653
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>from a handbag perspective, it's hard to say because a lot of the looks that we are seeing we're not seeing her casual.

00:32:38.653 --> 00:32:39.825
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>There is.

00:32:39.825 --> 00:32:41.740
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>We saw her at the Invictus Games.

00:32:41.740 --> 00:32:44.660
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I think that's definitely going to have an effect.

00:32:44.660 --> 00:32:49.338
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I don't remember seeing her because she wasn't in a coat and she wasn't in outerwear.

00:32:49.338 --> 00:32:50.859
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I don't remember seeing her with handbags.

00:32:50.859 --> 00:32:52.619
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>She wasn't allowed to wear a coat.

00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:55.701
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Well, at the Invictus Games she wasn't wearing a coat.

00:32:55.701 --> 00:32:59.535
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Oh, okay, she was inside, I think Right, and I didn't see her wearing a handbag.

00:32:59.535 --> 00:33:00.039
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I don't know what she's.

00:33:00.943 --> 00:33:04.200
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>When she first came to the UK she was wearing loads of really cute crossbody bags.

00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:05.640
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Yeah, and they were adorable.

00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:17.298
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It's a very Obviously now she's in the States in a very different climate with very different demands on how she is supposed to present herself.

00:33:17.298 --> 00:33:36.380
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Yeah, I think what we are seeing somebody who's still massively influencing fashion, but I don't know if it's in the same way as the Royal's influence fashion, because what they are permitted to do we don't really see Royal casual unless it's like Wellies, polo, etc.

00:33:36.380 --> 00:33:37.480
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>On the farm.

00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.299
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It's a very English country casual.

00:33:40.299 --> 00:33:51.019
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So it's so different from what we normally see that I think it's still got an influence, but I think it's very different to what it was when she was here, being forced to conform to that little box.

00:33:52.986 --> 00:34:06.417
<v Emily Blumenthal>Do you think, just so we can wrap up Queen Elizabeth when back in the day, not so much when she was older do you think how she used handbags had an impact on handbag trends overall?

00:34:06.417 --> 00:34:15.851
<v Emily Blumenthal>I mean, obviously she always had a pension for bright colors and so forth, but do you think, historically speaking, the way she used handbags had an impact, at least within the UK?

00:34:16.740 --> 00:34:26.429
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I think when it comes to Queen Elizabeth II, there is an element to which her fashion was by design, not cutting edge.

00:34:26.429 --> 00:34:34.572
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>It was about a recognizable and quintessentially British style.

00:34:34.572 --> 00:34:41.865
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>If you want to go for daring, I think you probably have to look more to her sister, who's kind of pushing the envelope a little bit.

00:34:41.865 --> 00:34:58.927
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Nevertheless, I think when it comes to a timeless classic, the accessories that she wore definitely influence what is seen as being timeless and quintessentially British rather than necessarily being fashion forward and cutting edge.

00:34:58.927 --> 00:35:03.326
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>But luxury, quality, classics, class.

00:35:03.326 --> 00:35:09.905
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>Those things, I think, definitely are maintained and guided by what's going on there.

00:35:10.327 --> 00:35:11.250
<v Emily Blumenthal>That's fascinating.

00:35:11.250 --> 00:35:21.463
<v Emily Blumenthal>I never even thought about that because I've often looked at you know she was obviously, and as far as we've been around she's always been old, right, she's never been young and spry.

00:35:21.463 --> 00:35:42.306
<v Emily Blumenthal>And as for the Royals and so forth and all the shows where they show her as somebody very young and thrown into something that she obviously didn't sign up for, so much as such a young woman, but to recognize and take what she's worn as what is considered classic is a really interesting thought process.

00:35:42.306 --> 00:35:46.449
<v Emily Blumenthal>I look at you know what is that overall impact?

00:35:46.449 --> 00:35:46.990
<v Emily Blumenthal>And that's true.

00:35:46.990 --> 00:35:55.764
<v Emily Blumenthal>What she carried and has continued to carry up until she passed is absolutely what is considered a classic.

00:35:55.764 --> 00:35:59.068
<v Emily Blumenthal>So that's an interesting construct.

00:35:59.068 --> 00:36:16.177
<v Emily Blumenthal>So I think you know, in terms of some key takeaways, would be, if you're looking to see from a trickle down effect, what would be perceived at least from a socioeconomic perspective, because obviously what somebody means is what's dictating overall, what's going to be.

00:36:16.177 --> 00:36:21.829
<v Emily Blumenthal>It would be more so what's considered the classics as opposed to what's considered cutting edge, would you?

00:36:21.869 --> 00:36:22.170
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>agree?

00:36:22.652 --> 00:36:33.396
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I think so, and I think when it comes to what members of the royal family and particularly what the monarch consumes, the royal warrant or the royal mark, you know.

00:36:33.478 --> 00:37:07.094
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>So when you get that crest above the stuff that you make, that says that you know, basically, the Queen likes this thing or the King likes this thing carrying that, you have had to get to such a point that you're recognised by the royal household, that you are consumed and bought on a daily basis by the royal household, and then once you get that stamp, that stamp of royal approval, that then I think positions you as just indomitably classic, quintessentially British, quintessentially upper class.

00:37:07.094 --> 00:37:17.387
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>And then it becomes the thing that if it's this, then it's must be quality, luxury, longevity, all of those things that staying power.

00:37:17.387 --> 00:37:47.764
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I almost wonder and I think that this is something we'll have to, we'll determine hundreds of years from now if part of the reason why that royal mark gets that understanding culturally is because of the longevity of Her Majesty the Queen, that somehow her mark and her reign almost osmos onto the brand, the purse she carries, the shoes she wears, that because she's been around forever and she's worn these for ages, they law are of good quality because they've got her mark.

00:37:48.420 --> 00:38:10.510
<v Emily Blumenthal>I wonder do you think, even dating back before her, that that would have been the same case, that even from pictures or drawings and so forth, from past monarchs and so forth, that they carried the same effect from a pre dating, obviously, pictures and photography Do you think that was the same trend, that it would have been the case to have that same impact?

00:38:11.420 --> 00:38:20.226
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>The royal patronage of artists, musicians, glaciers, house builders, whatever it, from big to small jewellery makers.

00:38:20.226 --> 00:38:33.541
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>We know the effect of royal patronage, the fact that somebody like Hans Holborn the Younger is so well known that his art, his faces are how we view the Tudor court.

00:38:33.541 --> 00:38:47.014
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>That speaks to the vanity of royal patronage, and also how much and what an effect a royal patron can have on the longevity and recognizability of an individual's work down the centuries.

00:38:47.014 --> 00:38:54.304
<v Dr. Katrina Marchant>I think absolutely those makers that get that kind of royal war and that royal ascent, they become timeless.

00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:56.666
<v Emily Blumenthal>We could talk all day about this.

00:38:56.666 --> 00:38:59.248
<v Emily Blumenthal>This has been so much fun.

00:38:59.248 --> 00:39:08.409
<v Emily Blumenthal>I would love to you know, as time progresses and we start seeing new things pop up, new trends, I would love to have you back for us to continue this conversation and talk about.

00:39:08.409 --> 00:39:17.110
<v Emily Blumenthal>You know the effect and impact of things from Yonder and yesterday year in terms of what they and how they tie into what's going on today.

00:39:17.110 --> 00:39:20.047
<v Emily Blumenthal>So if that works for you, I'd love to have you back.

00:39:20.047 --> 00:39:26.831
<v Emily Blumenthal>I'd love to Dr Katrina it has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the Handbag Designer 101 podcast.

00:39:26.831 --> 00:39:28.144
<v Emily Blumenthal>Thank you so very much.

00:39:28.144 --> 00:39:31.789
<v Emily Blumenthal>Thank you, thanks for listening.

00:39:31.789 --> 00:39:37.152
<v Emily Blumenthal>Don't forget to rate and review and follow us on every single platform at Handbag Designer.

00:39:37.152 --> 00:39:40.985
<v Emily Blumenthal>Thanks so much, thank you.