Helgoland: leading physicists to gather on the tiny island where quantum mechanics was born

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Hello, and welcome to the Physics Well Stories

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podcast.

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I'm Andrew Glester.

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It's been a hundred years since Werner Heisenberg,

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during a summer retreat on the small island

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of Helgoland,

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developed the core principles

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of quantum mechanics.

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His groundbreaking work laid the foundation

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for the revolutionary

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ideas, which were later expanded upon by Max

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Planck, Niels Bohr, and Erwin Schrodinger.

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Along with several less noted scientists, of course.

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And their work, along with those contemporaries, forever

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changed our understanding of the universe.

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And as we celebrate this incredible milestone, we'll

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also be looking ahead. The Helgoland twenty twenty

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five workshop is just around the corner as

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part of the International Year of Quantum Science

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and Technology.

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The workshop is named after the island where

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Werner Heisenberg first develops these foundational ideas of

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quantum mechanics

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and it promises to bring together leading physicists,

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some of whom we'll hear from in this

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podcast, to explore topics such as quantum computing,

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quantum materials, and the philosophical implications

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of quantum theory.

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It's promising to be a milestone gathering for

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shaping the future of quantum research and its

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applications

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in the twenty first century.

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In this episode, I'm delighted to be joined

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by 3 brilliant physicists who are helping to

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shape that next quantum revolution. We'll hear from

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Jack Harris, a physicist from Yale and 1

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of the organizers

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of the Helgoland twenty twenty five workshop and

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Anna Maria Ray,

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a professor

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in theoretical physics at the University of Colorado

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in Boulder

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who is, amongst other things, the chair of

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the American Physical Society's division in atomic, molecular,

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and optical physics. As 2025

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is the international year of quantum science and

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technology,

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Physics World readers can expect even more coverage

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of the latest quantum research and how it's

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impacting the world on the website and in

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the magazine. For now, here's the podcast. And

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here's Natalie De Leon.

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I am an associate professor of electrical and

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computer engineering,

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with affiliations in physics and the Princeton Plasma

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Physics Laboratory at Princeton University. What does that

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mean you do on a sort of day

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to day? Oh my gosh.

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Well, on a day to day basis, it

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really feels like I'm mostly,

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you know, putting out fires in my lab

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and dealing with my children. But,

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but okay. So,

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my I guess my lab, broadly speaking, works

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on, quantum information science and quantum technologies.

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We have sort of a broad scope,

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that makes it a little bit hard to

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compactly talk about, but,

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2 thirds of my lab works on, these

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cubits called color centers in diamond. So if

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you take a diamond

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and you put

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flaws in it in very specific ways,

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then, you can actually make well behaved qubits

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that, that can accomplish really interesting tasks. So

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the main thing that we're really focused on

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is using a particular flaw called the nitrogen

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vacancy center. You punch out 2 carbon atoms,

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put in 1 nitrogen, and then there's a

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little, there's an empty spot in the lattice

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next to it,

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and that acts as a good qubit even

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at room temperature.

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So you have very long spin coherence times

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and and ways to manipulate it with lasers,

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and we use that for quantum sensing. So

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we spend a lot of time,

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making NICE NV centers,

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figuring out how to integrate them with other

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devices, and coming up with new protocols for

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how to get new kinds of information,

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out of these things. And then

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a third of my group works on,

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totally different platform,

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superconducting

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qubits for quantum computing.

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So there,

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you know, what we do is is build

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these,

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these little printed circuits,

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well, actually, not so little. They're at the

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kind of hundred micron scale.

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And,

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and we send in microwave photons, and we

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basically just use those microwaves as, as states

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for quantum information processing.

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Diamonds,

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they're expensive. Right? Yeah. So,

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well, expensive,

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depends on what your competitive technology is, but

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I will also say that the diamonds that

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we work with are, primarily

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synthetic diamonds.

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So,

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they're grown by plasma chemical vapor deposition,

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and, and we work heavily with, with the

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company, Element six, which is based in The

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UK,

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to try to advance the state of the

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art of synthetic diamond.

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So I think it's still expensive compared to

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silicon,

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but it is not nearly as expensive as

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you would extrapolate from gemstones if you go

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and buy a necklace or something like that,

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which is you know, has a completely different

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economic scaling.

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Is it a very global thinking industry at

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the moment? Yeah. Well, I guess the,

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maybe the thing that's a little bit confusing

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from the outside with quantum technologies is it's

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not a single industry per se because there's

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really a large number of different kinds of

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applications.

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So I think quantum computing gets a lot

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of attention because you get these very big,

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kind of,

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landmark results from, large scale processors at Google,

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and IBM and and, Continuum and other companies

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like that.

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But, but there are also a large number

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of kind of other players that are trying

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to find other applications of quantum technologies like

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quantum sensing. And sensing is sort of intrinsically

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a very diverse

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topic because it doesn't have a single target.

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It's not like you're just trying to make

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the ultimate sensor for just 1 thing, but

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you can find sensors that

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are really good in space,

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or sensors that actually push the boundaries of,

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you know, the most sensitive magnetic field you

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can measure,

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or sensors that, work a lot better when

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they're underwater, you know, or,

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or give you a different spatial scale of

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resolution than people have been able to achieve

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before. So I think there's many different kinds

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of applications and,

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so that's the good thing. The good thing

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is that there's diverse applications and you can

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kind of find a niche. The bad thing

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is that the only thing that matters at

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the end is are you a better sensor.

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You know? Nobody cares if You use some

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beautiful quantum mechanics to get there.

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So there's a lot of very hard nosed

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classical engineering

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that goes into,

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you know, really marching up to the forefront

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of what you can do and then kind

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of using quantum mechanics to get the last

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mile. Are there quantum

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research labs in every university? Yeah. Well, I

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guess, maybe let me be concrete about what

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quantum research means because, on the 1 hand,

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of course,

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we're celebrating the one hundred years of quantum

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mechanics this year, and there are all of

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these different activities to do that.

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So quantum has been with us for a

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long time, and we believe that it is

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just the correct description,

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of the

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world of the physical world around us, and,

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and we just use it. Right? And it's

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the basis for a very large number of,

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you know, the technology that make my laptop

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run. For example,

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it's, you know, based on our understanding of

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materials, which comes from a fundamental

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description of matter that comes from quantum mechanics.

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So so that's a little bit distinct from,

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when I talk about quantum technologies, what I'm

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really talking about is sort of this last

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twenty or thirty years

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of,

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scientific and technological development, which is distinct from

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the preceding

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seventy to eighty years in that instead of

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just using quantum mechanics to describe the microscopic,

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structure of things and to make predictions.

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This really comes from a marriage of,

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quantum physics and information science and trying to

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think about what the implications are,

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on how we do measurement,

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what kind of, you know, what the implications

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are for, the complexity of computing things,

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you know, what it means to send quantum

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information over long distances and whether or not

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you can gain any functionality

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by using kind of the weirdness of quantum

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measurement. And I would say that those topics

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people really didn't start thinking about until,

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the I mean, there were some pioneers before

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that that were working on fundamentals,

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but, the first concrete proposals for how you

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would actually harness quantum mechanics and quantum information

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for technologies

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were were really thirty, forty years ago.

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So if I if I cut the Venn

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diagram down to

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to the folks that are really working on

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quantum information and quantum technologies,

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then, yes, I I wouldn't I wouldn't say

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definitively that there's, like, 1 in every university,

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but I think it it is a pretty

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broad group of of people.

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And,

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and when you look across the landscape, there's

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really, you know, quite a few out there,

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and it's and it's pretty diverse. You'll find

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people in this space across many different departments.

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You know, physics, of course, has a

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huge, footprint, but there's, I'm sitting in electrical

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engineering.

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There are computer scientists,

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chemists and material scientists. I think there's quite

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a few different,

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different kinds of people from different trainings and

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backgrounds that are looking at these things.

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Okay. Is it an exciting thing to work

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in?

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Yeah. I mean

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okay.

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I think

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I I'm maybe, like, not the best well,

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in some ways, I'm the best poster child

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for this or I should be a better

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poster child because I'm in the chair line

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for the division of quantum information. So I

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should be like a you know, in the

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in the APS. I should be a card

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carrying,

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rah rah

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cheerleader or something.

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I but, you know, I've never conceived of

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my own research as being

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I desperately need to use quantum technologies, and

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then that's how we're going to organize things.

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I think I tend to think of things

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more in terms of, you know,

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where are the soft spots

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in our knowledge about some topic?

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Where is a frontier that would be interesting

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to explore?

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And, it just so happens that coincident with

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whatever stage I am in my career, you

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know, the big opportunity space now is applying

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these quantum information process these quantum information concepts

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and then taking that lens and using it

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to think about a large number of topics.

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So,

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00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:23,589
well, let me let me give you a

275
00:10:23,589 --> 00:10:25,450
concrete example. So right now,

276
00:10:25,909 --> 00:10:27,129
we have this big

277
00:10:27,509 --> 00:10:28,889
new effort in the group,

278
00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:30,409
to do,

279
00:10:31,669 --> 00:10:34,309
broadly speaking, condensed matter physics, so to try

280
00:10:34,309 --> 00:10:37,045
to look at some old and open problems

281
00:10:37,184 --> 00:10:38,325
in condensed matter.

282
00:10:39,825 --> 00:10:42,065
And if if the answer was that you

283
00:10:42,065 --> 00:10:43,825
just needed to build a new classical probe,

284
00:10:43,825 --> 00:10:45,684
I would be completely game for that.

285
00:10:47,024 --> 00:10:49,940
But the opportunity that we have figured out

286
00:10:49,940 --> 00:10:52,740
is that, by using these NV centers in

287
00:10:52,740 --> 00:10:53,240
diamond,

288
00:10:53,620 --> 00:10:55,540
you can manipulate them in a particular way

289
00:10:55,540 --> 00:10:57,000
so that you can look for correlations,

290
00:10:58,100 --> 00:11:00,259
between, you know, the measurements that you do

291
00:11:00,259 --> 00:11:02,580
between different NV centers. It's very hard to

292
00:11:02,580 --> 00:11:04,100
imagine how you would do this with something

293
00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:05,424
that didn't look like a qubit.

294
00:11:06,365 --> 00:11:08,704
And when you can measure these correlation functions,

295
00:11:09,084 --> 00:11:11,245
it gives you access to information that you

296
00:11:11,245 --> 00:11:12,865
just can't get otherwise.

297
00:11:13,324 --> 00:11:15,824
So with normal probes, you're always looking at,

298
00:11:16,365 --> 00:11:18,204
you know, I send a beam through it

299
00:11:18,204 --> 00:11:19,644
or something, and then I look at how

300
00:11:19,644 --> 00:11:20,620
the thing scatter,

301
00:11:21,079 --> 00:11:23,240
or I send a current and look at

302
00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,159
globally how does the how does the current

303
00:11:25,159 --> 00:11:27,159
change as I change the parameter, and you're

304
00:11:27,159 --> 00:11:30,620
really averaging over all of these correlation functions.

305
00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,159
So the ability to go in and really

306
00:11:33,159 --> 00:11:34,139
map the correlations

307
00:11:35,225 --> 00:11:36,764
at these nanometer scale

308
00:11:37,144 --> 00:11:38,904
spatial resolutions and,

309
00:11:39,464 --> 00:11:40,125
you know,

310
00:11:41,144 --> 00:11:43,945
with with relatively high timing resolution is is

311
00:11:43,945 --> 00:11:46,365
sort of a fundamentally new tool that's unlocked

312
00:11:46,424 --> 00:11:48,264
by the fact that we're using these qubits

313
00:11:48,264 --> 00:11:48,924
as sensors.

314
00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:52,740
So now we're just running around and trying

315
00:11:52,740 --> 00:11:53,240
to,

316
00:11:54,500 --> 00:11:56,759
I I love problems with a big graveyard,

317
00:11:57,460 --> 00:12:00,840
so we're so we're looking for graveyard problems,

318
00:12:01,779 --> 00:12:05,514
that have really eluded past tools and, and

319
00:12:05,514 --> 00:12:06,414
applying this

320
00:12:06,794 --> 00:12:08,475
to a a lot of places. And

321
00:12:09,115 --> 00:12:11,674
That's really interesting because it's in the wider

322
00:12:11,674 --> 00:12:13,534
public, quantum is obviously

323
00:12:14,235 --> 00:12:16,815
seen as weird and other and

324
00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:20,070
alternative. In many in many ways, it's used

325
00:12:20,290 --> 00:12:23,330
for pseudoscience and and those sorts of things.

326
00:12:23,330 --> 00:12:24,690
I mean, you're saying you're not a poster

327
00:12:24,690 --> 00:12:26,690
child for it, but, obviously, you are. It

328
00:12:26,690 --> 00:12:27,990
it is the actual

329
00:12:28,370 --> 00:12:31,154
application of it that has interested you in

330
00:12:31,154 --> 00:12:33,555
it, the real world application of it that

331
00:12:33,555 --> 00:12:35,555
has interested you into it rather than just

332
00:12:35,555 --> 00:12:37,795
some sort of fanciful belief that it might

333
00:12:37,795 --> 00:12:40,035
be good. Yeah. I think that is I

334
00:12:40,035 --> 00:12:42,115
had never articulated it this way before, but

335
00:12:42,115 --> 00:12:44,115
I think that's a fair that's a a

336
00:12:44,115 --> 00:12:44,934
fair characterization.

337
00:12:45,710 --> 00:12:47,070
There are a lot of people who get

338
00:12:47,070 --> 00:12:49,149
attracted to the field of quantum mechanics and

339
00:12:49,149 --> 00:12:49,970
quantum information

340
00:12:50,509 --> 00:12:53,230
because of, fundamentals. Right? Like, they like thinking

341
00:12:53,230 --> 00:12:54,690
about the philosophical,

342
00:12:55,629 --> 00:12:56,129
implications

343
00:12:56,509 --> 00:12:57,970
and maybe some of the

344
00:12:58,294 --> 00:13:00,634
metascience that's associated with that.

345
00:13:01,095 --> 00:13:01,595
I've

346
00:13:01,975 --> 00:13:05,254
not ever been that kind of scientist. I'm

347
00:13:05,334 --> 00:13:06,934
I am very much a shut up and

348
00:13:06,934 --> 00:13:08,475
calculate kind of experimentalist.

349
00:13:09,495 --> 00:13:09,995
So,

350
00:13:11,014 --> 00:13:13,809
yeah, I mean, I think for me, it's

351
00:13:13,809 --> 00:13:14,389
more about,

352
00:13:15,409 --> 00:13:16,850
you know, I I I think of the

353
00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:18,470
the fun of physics as partly

354
00:13:19,250 --> 00:13:21,649
running around and getting to take all of

355
00:13:21,649 --> 00:13:23,110
the tools of humanity,

356
00:13:23,569 --> 00:13:26,309
you know, really marching out to the absolute

357
00:13:26,929 --> 00:13:30,134
bleeding edge frontier of all the technology, all

358
00:13:30,134 --> 00:13:31,674
the capabilities that we

359
00:13:32,054 --> 00:13:33,674
have, and then coming up with

360
00:13:34,054 --> 00:13:35,894
a new kind of experiment or a new

361
00:13:35,894 --> 00:13:37,595
way of seeing things

362
00:13:38,054 --> 00:13:40,075
that uses all of that technology.

363
00:13:40,695 --> 00:13:42,615
I mean, okay. This is a maybe a

364
00:13:42,615 --> 00:13:44,235
kind of a trivial example, but

365
00:13:44,549 --> 00:13:45,690
the number of

366
00:13:46,070 --> 00:13:47,909
experiments that we have that are running now

367
00:13:47,909 --> 00:13:48,649
on FPGAs

368
00:13:50,149 --> 00:13:50,970
is immense.

369
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:54,070
Field programmable gate arrays. So there are these,

370
00:13:54,070 --> 00:13:55,750
you know, specialized chips that you can do

371
00:13:55,909 --> 00:13:58,169
use to do, you know, for example,

372
00:13:58,789 --> 00:14:00,164
fast real time logic.

373
00:14:00,884 --> 00:14:03,204
Nobody invented these things for physics. We don't

374
00:14:03,204 --> 00:14:05,144
care you know, nobody cares about us.

375
00:14:05,684 --> 00:14:08,105
They're they're not trying to invent, you know,

376
00:14:08,164 --> 00:14:11,284
multibillion dollar industries just for, to make physics

377
00:14:11,284 --> 00:14:14,039
happen. But they exist for other purposes.

378
00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:16,839
And then because they exist, that is the,

379
00:14:17,059 --> 00:14:19,460
you know, leading edge of some technological frontier.

380
00:14:19,460 --> 00:14:21,700
And then 1 question is, can we now

381
00:14:21,700 --> 00:14:23,480
use that to enable new experiments?

382
00:14:23,940 --> 00:14:25,379
So, you know, we do stuff like that

383
00:14:25,379 --> 00:14:26,120
all the time,

384
00:14:27,134 --> 00:14:30,174
and quantum information is 1 of those things

385
00:14:30,174 --> 00:14:32,355
that, happens to be very visible.

386
00:14:32,735 --> 00:14:34,174
But I think it would be it would

387
00:14:34,174 --> 00:14:36,014
be less sexy if I ran around talking

388
00:14:36,014 --> 00:14:36,514
about

389
00:14:36,975 --> 00:14:38,355
how our procurement

390
00:14:38,735 --> 00:14:39,235
ability

391
00:14:39,615 --> 00:14:42,909
is, you know, is really important for, experimental

392
00:14:43,370 --> 00:14:44,889
physics. As you say, there were a few

393
00:14:44,889 --> 00:14:46,269
things happening this year.

394
00:14:46,649 --> 00:14:47,149
Helgoland,

395
00:14:47,929 --> 00:14:50,250
excited about that? Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's

396
00:14:50,250 --> 00:14:50,909
a unique

397
00:14:51,370 --> 00:14:51,870
meeting.

398
00:14:52,569 --> 00:14:55,129
It's an entire six days, and,

399
00:14:56,195 --> 00:14:58,914
I am currently in the stage of life

400
00:14:58,914 --> 00:15:01,235
where I am usually not gone from home

401
00:15:01,235 --> 00:15:02,835
for more than two days at a time

402
00:15:02,835 --> 00:15:04,375
because I have 2 small kids.

403
00:15:05,075 --> 00:15:06,455
So I had to commit

404
00:15:07,394 --> 00:15:09,794
to an entire six days in Germany, which

405
00:15:09,794 --> 00:15:12,549
will be, which will be fun. But they

406
00:15:12,549 --> 00:15:14,870
asked very, very far in advance, so that's

407
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:17,190
why it's possible to do this big,

408
00:15:17,669 --> 00:15:18,809
expansive trip.

409
00:15:19,830 --> 00:15:22,309
Yeah. I mean, I I haven't heard any

410
00:15:22,309 --> 00:15:25,304
more than what was in the informational email

411
00:15:25,304 --> 00:15:27,544
and the poster, and, you know, I read

412
00:15:27,544 --> 00:15:27,865
the,

413
00:15:29,225 --> 00:15:30,985
the article that was at,

414
00:15:32,024 --> 00:15:33,245
Physics World earlier.

415
00:15:34,504 --> 00:15:36,120
So I know kind of the rough scope,

416
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,759
but everybody I I think the the list

417
00:15:38,759 --> 00:15:41,399
of people is really exciting. It is this

418
00:15:41,399 --> 00:15:43,480
set of people that I've mentioned earlier in

419
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,820
the Venn diagram who are really thinking about

420
00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:50,315
quantum information, its applications to technologies and, new

421
00:15:50,315 --> 00:15:52,475
frontiers in science. And then a lot of

422
00:15:52,475 --> 00:15:54,315
the giants in the field who are working

423
00:15:54,315 --> 00:15:55,054
on fundamentals,

424
00:15:55,754 --> 00:15:57,835
you know, in this space over the last

425
00:15:57,835 --> 00:16:00,794
few decades. Are you hoping to make connections

426
00:16:00,794 --> 00:16:02,235
with people for your work, or are you

427
00:16:02,475 --> 00:16:03,934
is it more interest?

428
00:16:04,259 --> 00:16:06,040
What what's your hope for it?

429
00:16:06,899 --> 00:16:08,500
Yeah. I mean, there there are a few

430
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:10,580
people here that I don't know very well,

431
00:16:10,899 --> 00:16:12,420
but I will say it's a small enough

432
00:16:12,420 --> 00:16:13,879
community that I know most.

433
00:16:14,820 --> 00:16:16,179
I know most of the people on the

434
00:16:16,179 --> 00:16:18,445
list. So in some ways, it feels more

435
00:16:18,445 --> 00:16:20,445
like, when you go to a wedding and

436
00:16:20,445 --> 00:16:21,964
you see all of these cousins that you

437
00:16:21,964 --> 00:16:23,424
haven't seen for a few years.

438
00:16:24,445 --> 00:16:25,504
That sort of dynamic.

439
00:16:26,764 --> 00:16:28,204
Do you think it's important to do these

440
00:16:28,204 --> 00:16:28,704
things,

441
00:16:29,004 --> 00:16:31,745
not sort of in person, but also

442
00:16:32,169 --> 00:16:35,070
in a location that's sort of historically significant?

443
00:16:35,529 --> 00:16:36,509
Yeah. Well, so,

444
00:16:37,290 --> 00:16:39,070
I think it is it will be interesting

445
00:16:39,129 --> 00:16:39,790
to see

446
00:16:40,570 --> 00:16:41,389
how people,

447
00:16:42,009 --> 00:16:43,070
interpret the assignment,

448
00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:45,929
because you sort of have 2 choices. 1

449
00:16:45,929 --> 00:16:47,210
is that you can do a lot of

450
00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:48,934
stuff that's essentially retrospective

451
00:16:49,634 --> 00:16:51,795
and say you know, and trying to fit

452
00:16:51,795 --> 00:16:55,394
things in the context of the last hundred

453
00:16:55,394 --> 00:16:55,894
years,

454
00:16:57,154 --> 00:16:58,695
or you could just talk about

455
00:16:59,154 --> 00:17:02,159
your hottest, you know, results right now. And,

456
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:03,860
and both things have value,

457
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:04,740
particularly

458
00:17:05,039 --> 00:17:06,720
at a meeting like this that is, you

459
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,319
know, supposed to be at least a little

460
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:10,400
bit retrospective. So I'm not sure. I bet

461
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,779
we're going to get a mix.

462
00:17:13,039 --> 00:17:15,954
You know, I I don't feel particularly qualified

463
00:17:16,174 --> 00:17:16,914
to try

464
00:17:17,294 --> 00:17:19,694
to situate my work in a century of

465
00:17:19,694 --> 00:17:21,694
quantum mechanics, so I'm probably just going to

466
00:17:21,694 --> 00:17:22,434
talk about

467
00:17:22,815 --> 00:17:24,194
stuff that's hot off the presses.

468
00:17:26,029 --> 00:17:28,669
But I I can, just eyeballing the list,

469
00:17:28,669 --> 00:17:30,109
I can think of a handful of people

470
00:17:30,109 --> 00:17:31,710
who will probably do a really great job

471
00:17:31,710 --> 00:17:34,210
at, a little bit of the historical context.

472
00:17:34,269 --> 00:17:35,869
Is it somewhere that you would you know,

473
00:17:35,869 --> 00:17:38,049
personally, you would like to go to Helgoland

474
00:17:38,269 --> 00:17:40,130
anyway because of that historical

475
00:17:41,224 --> 00:17:43,384
context? Is it somewhere that, you know, if

476
00:17:43,384 --> 00:17:46,205
you were given some time off, a sabbatical,

477
00:17:46,265 --> 00:17:47,945
maybe you would think, oh, you know, I

478
00:17:48,105 --> 00:17:49,625
I'd like to see the place where this

479
00:17:49,625 --> 00:17:51,945
happened. Yeah. I have to be maximally honest.

480
00:17:51,945 --> 00:17:53,724
I have not spent a lot of time,

481
00:17:54,460 --> 00:17:56,380
thinking about the history of quantum mechanics. I

482
00:17:56,380 --> 00:17:57,679
read Doug Stone's book.

483
00:17:58,059 --> 00:17:59,519
That was pretty much it.

484
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:01,099
And,

485
00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:04,000
which was really mostly about how Einstein understood

486
00:18:04,059 --> 00:18:04,880
quantum mechanics.

487
00:18:06,059 --> 00:18:06,559
And,

488
00:18:07,339 --> 00:18:07,839
so,

489
00:18:08,174 --> 00:18:10,414
no, this was not on my radar as,

490
00:18:10,815 --> 00:18:13,235
as a destination to go to. My understanding

491
00:18:13,295 --> 00:18:14,174
is that it's not,

492
00:18:14,735 --> 00:18:16,914
it's not the most, like, attractive

493
00:18:17,215 --> 00:18:18,355
vacation destination.

494
00:18:20,495 --> 00:18:22,095
But I I don't know. Maybe I just

495
00:18:22,095 --> 00:18:23,779
said something really impolite about impolite about

496
00:18:24,586 --> 00:18:25,086
Alconite.

497
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:27,600
But,

498
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,440
no. I mean, I think it will be

499
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:30,660
a really fun experience

500
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,039
specifically for this conference. You know, the fact

501
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:33,940
that they're convening,

502
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,454
this kind of particular

503
00:18:37,154 --> 00:18:38,595
cross section of,

504
00:18:38,994 --> 00:18:39,894
of scientists

505
00:18:40,835 --> 00:18:41,234
and,

506
00:18:41,634 --> 00:18:43,554
and then, you know, having them come talk

507
00:18:43,554 --> 00:18:45,234
about a mix of old and new things,

508
00:18:45,234 --> 00:18:47,075
I think, will be really interesting. What are

509
00:18:47,075 --> 00:18:48,454
your hopes for

510
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:49,690
quantum

511
00:18:49,990 --> 00:18:52,809
physics, quantum mechanics? What what do you think

512
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:55,930
are the realistic applications that we might have

513
00:18:56,069 --> 00:18:57,990
in the lifetimes of the people listening to

514
00:18:57,990 --> 00:18:58,490
this?

515
00:18:58,869 --> 00:18:59,369
Yeah.

516
00:19:00,390 --> 00:19:00,710
So

517
00:19:01,384 --> 00:19:03,644
okay. In terms of realistic applications,

518
00:19:03,945 --> 00:19:05,545
I think there are clearly a lot of

519
00:19:05,545 --> 00:19:06,045
opportunities

520
00:19:06,585 --> 00:19:06,985
for,

521
00:19:07,625 --> 00:19:08,605
quantum sensors.

522
00:19:09,065 --> 00:19:10,125
You know, if there's

523
00:19:10,505 --> 00:19:11,565
a very high likelihood

524
00:19:11,945 --> 00:19:15,005
that well, okay. We've already seen that

525
00:19:15,390 --> 00:19:18,589
LIGO uses quantum sensing to see something like,

526
00:19:18,589 --> 00:19:20,670
you know, another factor of 8 more of

527
00:19:20,670 --> 00:19:23,789
the universe. There's a very concrete example where

528
00:19:23,789 --> 00:19:26,109
we really where we really want. I wouldn't

529
00:19:26,109 --> 00:19:28,049
be surprised if in our lifetime,

530
00:19:29,150 --> 00:19:30,369
you know, the

531
00:19:31,244 --> 00:19:32,705
redefinition of the second

532
00:19:33,164 --> 00:19:34,785
involved some sort

533
00:19:35,484 --> 00:19:36,705
of quantum metrology

534
00:19:37,085 --> 00:19:38,785
in state of the art clocks.

535
00:19:41,164 --> 00:19:41,664
I,

536
00:19:42,365 --> 00:19:43,805
and I think there will be a large

537
00:19:43,805 --> 00:19:46,309
number of sort of unsung practical applications

538
00:19:46,609 --> 00:19:47,750
like biomedical,

539
00:19:48,849 --> 00:19:51,670
applications of quantum sensors that, you know,

540
00:19:52,130 --> 00:19:54,609
won't get an enormous amount of splashy press,

541
00:19:54,609 --> 00:19:56,769
but where somebody was able to really push

542
00:19:56,769 --> 00:19:58,289
the state of the art by using a

543
00:19:58,289 --> 00:19:59,144
quantum sensor.

544
00:19:59,705 --> 00:20:01,884
On, quantum information processing,

545
00:20:02,424 --> 00:20:04,525
I think it's a really exciting time,

546
00:20:05,384 --> 00:20:08,105
with these large scale quantum processors. And,

547
00:20:08,904 --> 00:20:10,684
the the part that's really

548
00:20:11,065 --> 00:20:13,325
that I always have to remind myself of

549
00:20:13,460 --> 00:20:15,619
is that the kinds of experiments that people

550
00:20:15,619 --> 00:20:18,039
are doing now in both industry and academia,

551
00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:21,319
if you had gone out for jobs

552
00:20:21,619 --> 00:20:23,059
saying that you were going to do that

553
00:20:23,059 --> 00:20:24,579
stuff when I went out for jobs, which

554
00:20:24,579 --> 00:20:26,180
is not that long ago, it was only

555
00:20:26,180 --> 00:20:27,079
eight years ago,

556
00:20:28,075 --> 00:20:29,355
you would have been laughed out of the

557
00:20:29,355 --> 00:20:29,855
room.

558
00:20:30,714 --> 00:20:33,214
You could not have gotten an academic job

559
00:20:33,355 --> 00:20:35,355
less than a decade ago promising to do

560
00:20:35,355 --> 00:20:37,355
the stuff that we're doing now because all

561
00:20:37,355 --> 00:20:39,274
of the experts knew that this was that

562
00:20:39,274 --> 00:20:41,115
it was too hard. It was just too

563
00:20:41,115 --> 00:20:41,615
hard.

564
00:20:42,019 --> 00:20:46,440
So so in some sense, the pace of,

565
00:20:47,859 --> 00:20:49,720
of advance is actually

566
00:20:50,259 --> 00:20:51,880
really amazing and breathtaking,

567
00:20:52,819 --> 00:20:54,304
and it's hard to keep up. You know,

568
00:20:54,304 --> 00:20:56,144
you have to you have to learn completely

569
00:20:56,144 --> 00:20:57,984
new things to be able to understand what's

570
00:20:57,984 --> 00:21:00,065
going on now. And and it's been fun

571
00:21:00,065 --> 00:21:01,664
to sort of, you know, jump on and

572
00:21:01,664 --> 00:21:03,045
run as fast as possible.

573
00:21:03,984 --> 00:21:06,625
But from, I think, the broader public, it

574
00:21:06,625 --> 00:21:07,444
feels like

575
00:21:07,869 --> 00:21:10,289
the pace of advance is very slow

576
00:21:10,669 --> 00:21:11,169
because,

577
00:21:11,710 --> 00:21:13,009
because we don't have

578
00:21:13,390 --> 00:21:15,230
you know, quantum computers are not,

579
00:21:15,630 --> 00:21:16,369
code breaking

580
00:21:17,869 --> 00:21:20,269
and are not, you know, solving the most

581
00:21:20,269 --> 00:21:20,769
important,

582
00:21:21,150 --> 00:21:23,765
kind of chemistry problems for manufacturing

583
00:21:24,305 --> 00:21:25,684
yet. So I think

584
00:21:26,144 --> 00:21:26,884
the big

585
00:21:27,184 --> 00:21:30,005
kind of exciting project for the next

586
00:21:31,345 --> 00:21:33,345
I'm going to be very optimistic and say

587
00:21:33,345 --> 00:21:33,845
decade.

588
00:21:35,105 --> 00:21:36,384
I don't I don't know if I will

589
00:21:36,384 --> 00:21:38,429
regret this, but let's say decade. For the

590
00:21:38,429 --> 00:21:39,809
next decade, we'll be

591
00:21:40,349 --> 00:21:40,849
transitioning

592
00:21:41,309 --> 00:21:42,929
from the quantum processors

593
00:21:43,710 --> 00:21:46,769
just merely doing stuff that is impressive

594
00:21:47,789 --> 00:21:50,509
to actually doing things that are technologically useful

595
00:21:50,509 --> 00:21:51,250
for mankind.

596
00:21:51,924 --> 00:21:53,684
And I think and I think that is

597
00:21:53,765 --> 00:21:55,464
that's kind of clearly the goal.

598
00:21:55,765 --> 00:21:58,085
Nobody has any illusions about that goal. That's,

599
00:21:58,085 --> 00:22:00,085
you know, that's what everybody is is working

600
00:22:00,085 --> 00:22:00,585
towards.

601
00:22:00,964 --> 00:22:04,244
And a big chunk of the project from

602
00:22:04,244 --> 00:22:05,144
here to there

603
00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:05,960
is,

604
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:09,299
making things like quantum error correction work. You

605
00:22:09,299 --> 00:22:11,539
know, making processors where you can where you

606
00:22:11,539 --> 00:22:12,819
don't have to live with all the errors,

607
00:22:12,819 --> 00:22:15,299
but you actually can correct them in real

608
00:22:15,299 --> 00:22:15,799
time.

609
00:22:16,099 --> 00:22:19,634
And then, in doing so, scale the processors

610
00:22:19,634 --> 00:22:21,255
up to a meaningful size

611
00:22:21,634 --> 00:22:23,335
where you can actually do something useful.

612
00:22:24,115 --> 00:22:26,274
That's not it, Leon. And, if I'm perfectly

613
00:22:26,274 --> 00:22:27,954
honest, the conversation went off on a bit

614
00:22:27,954 --> 00:22:30,615
of a tangent there from this point about

615
00:22:31,410 --> 00:22:33,170
the redefinition of a second, and it made

616
00:22:33,170 --> 00:22:35,410
me think maybe there's a whole podcast in

617
00:22:35,410 --> 00:22:37,650
that later this year. But I wanted to

618
00:22:37,650 --> 00:22:39,730
talk to somebody who was more on the

619
00:22:39,730 --> 00:22:42,710
theoretical side of things. So here's Anna Maria

620
00:22:42,850 --> 00:22:43,350
Ray.

621
00:22:43,970 --> 00:22:47,195
I am a theorist. And I work my

622
00:22:47,195 --> 00:22:50,735
work is on atomic molecular and optical physics.

623
00:22:51,755 --> 00:22:54,575
I work at Gila and NICE.

624
00:22:55,115 --> 00:22:57,295
Gila is a joint institute between

625
00:22:57,674 --> 00:23:00,579
NICE and the University of Colorado at Boulder.

626
00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:02,000
My work,

627
00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:04,659
is trying to understand how we can

628
00:23:05,279 --> 00:23:07,940
harness and understand atom light interactions

629
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,419
and use them to

630
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,579
advance our field,

631
00:23:13,644 --> 00:23:15,345
towards applications such

632
00:23:15,805 --> 00:23:17,025
as precision measurements,

633
00:23:18,285 --> 00:23:19,265
quantum simulation,

634
00:23:20,204 --> 00:23:22,924
and maybe quantum computer in the future. What

635
00:23:22,924 --> 00:23:25,825
I do is that I do theoretical models,

636
00:23:26,710 --> 00:23:27,450
that describe

637
00:23:27,910 --> 00:23:28,650
the interactions

638
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:30,250
between many atoms,

639
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:32,150
molecules, or ions,

640
00:23:32,789 --> 00:23:35,110
that are cooled down to vary to to

641
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:37,210
their ground state close to their ground state,

642
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:39,529
and we learn how can we use lasers

643
00:23:39,924 --> 00:23:41,224
to manipulate them,

644
00:23:41,924 --> 00:23:43,464
and make them perform

645
00:23:43,845 --> 00:23:45,144
the best they can

646
00:23:45,525 --> 00:23:48,085
towards different tasks. For example, we can use

647
00:23:48,325 --> 00:23:50,265
we want to use atoms to,

648
00:23:51,765 --> 00:23:53,224
be able to record

649
00:23:53,845 --> 00:23:54,345
very

650
00:23:55,660 --> 00:23:56,160
precise

651
00:23:56,859 --> 00:24:00,059
energy spittings between their I mean, atoms have

652
00:24:00,059 --> 00:24:02,700
their energy penties, and we wanted to lock

653
00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:04,480
the laser to this very

654
00:24:05,420 --> 00:24:07,279
to their pristine energy levels.

655
00:24:07,634 --> 00:24:10,595
And we if we measure this energy difference

656
00:24:10,595 --> 00:24:12,755
very precise, we can come up with a

657
00:24:12,755 --> 00:24:15,815
measure of time because their energy and frequency

658
00:24:15,875 --> 00:24:18,515
are related. So this is how we we

659
00:24:18,515 --> 00:24:21,154
use these atolls for atomic clocks that are

660
00:24:21,154 --> 00:24:21,894
in satellites

661
00:24:22,355 --> 00:24:22,595
or,

662
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,299
we want to improve them at the ultimate

663
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:27,660
level possible.

664
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,380
We also want to use atoms

665
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,720
that we trap with light in what we

666
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:34,220
call

667
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,335
artificial crystals of light or optical lattice to

668
00:24:38,335 --> 00:24:41,215
emulate the behavior of electrons in solid state

669
00:24:41,215 --> 00:24:41,715
materials,

670
00:24:42,575 --> 00:24:44,674
and because atoms are fully controllable,

671
00:24:45,934 --> 00:24:49,075
more than electrons in this complicated and complex

672
00:24:49,215 --> 00:24:50,434
solid state environment,

673
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,839
We want to use these systems to shed

674
00:24:52,839 --> 00:24:53,820
light on questions

675
00:24:54,759 --> 00:24:57,240
related to the behavior of solid state systems,

676
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,940
such as high temperature superconductivity,

677
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:00,140
for example,

678
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,500
that, we jet cannot understand.

679
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,365
And when finally we wanted to use the

680
00:25:07,365 --> 00:25:10,085
atoms or ions that we can control with

681
00:25:10,085 --> 00:25:10,585
light,

682
00:25:11,125 --> 00:25:14,325
to engineer, for example, gates and try to

683
00:25:14,325 --> 00:25:15,305
entangle them,

684
00:25:15,684 --> 00:25:17,384
with the goal that maybe in the future,

685
00:25:17,445 --> 00:25:19,365
these systems can be used as,

686
00:25:20,005 --> 00:25:22,279
building blocks for a 1 computer.

687
00:25:22,579 --> 00:25:25,240
You've got stuff that's really, you know, actually

688
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:28,579
practically happening now with atomic clocks. Mhmm. And

689
00:25:28,579 --> 00:25:29,559
you've got this

690
00:25:30,259 --> 00:25:31,960
hopeful stuff in the future.

691
00:25:32,419 --> 00:25:34,599
How hopeful are you of that future

692
00:25:35,085 --> 00:25:35,585
application?

693
00:25:36,125 --> 00:25:38,044
Well, I think we will need first to

694
00:25:38,044 --> 00:25:38,544
demonstrate,

695
00:25:38,924 --> 00:25:40,144
in my point of view,

696
00:25:40,765 --> 00:25:42,944
applications of entanglement in metrology

697
00:25:43,244 --> 00:25:43,724
in in

698
00:25:44,365 --> 00:25:44,865
and

699
00:25:45,484 --> 00:25:47,424
we have a lot of things to learn

700
00:25:47,644 --> 00:25:48,544
and to control.

701
00:25:48,990 --> 00:25:50,690
So I am more optimistic

702
00:25:50,990 --> 00:25:51,490
that

703
00:25:51,789 --> 00:25:52,609
if we see

704
00:25:52,910 --> 00:25:55,329
that we can use entanglement for improving

705
00:25:55,869 --> 00:25:57,089
clocks or interferometers,

706
00:25:57,950 --> 00:26:00,369
then we will be in a better position

707
00:26:01,390 --> 00:26:03,569
to use them for more complicated

708
00:26:03,869 --> 00:26:06,034
stuff. The problem is that at the moment,

709
00:26:06,575 --> 00:26:08,434
it's not clear what is actually

710
00:26:09,454 --> 00:26:11,615
the best use of a quantum computer. Of

711
00:26:11,615 --> 00:26:14,414
course, there are many proposals and everything sounds

712
00:26:14,414 --> 00:26:14,914
great,

713
00:26:15,214 --> 00:26:16,654
but I think there are a lot of

714
00:26:16,654 --> 00:26:19,289
things that we need to learn. But the

715
00:26:19,289 --> 00:26:21,069
exciting part is that we are,

716
00:26:21,769 --> 00:26:23,769
working on it. There are a lot of

717
00:26:23,769 --> 00:26:25,950
companies that are starting to get interesting

718
00:26:26,409 --> 00:26:28,190
interested in pushing this direction,

719
00:26:28,569 --> 00:26:29,950
and I'm sure that

720
00:26:30,890 --> 00:26:31,630
many, many

721
00:26:32,025 --> 00:26:32,765
top researchers

722
00:26:33,384 --> 00:26:35,965
thinking of how to make something work,

723
00:26:36,345 --> 00:26:37,325
they will make

724
00:26:37,705 --> 00:26:39,945
even if not a quantum computer, but something

725
00:26:39,945 --> 00:26:40,765
very useful,

726
00:26:41,785 --> 00:26:43,325
come up to reality.

727
00:26:43,865 --> 00:26:46,585
To most people, you know, quantum entanglement. Right?

728
00:26:46,585 --> 00:26:49,099
That that's so distant. That's, I mean,

729
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,820
literally at a distance. Right? But it's it's

730
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,759
so far removed from the day to day

731
00:26:54,759 --> 00:26:56,299
of most people's lives.

732
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,759
If you meet somebody who's not, you know,

733
00:26:58,759 --> 00:27:01,080
the host of the Physics World Story podcast

734
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,599
or you meet somebody who's not at a

735
00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:04,734
conference, How do you talk to them about

736
00:27:04,734 --> 00:27:07,714
entanglement? I mean, entanglement is just correlations between

737
00:27:07,934 --> 00:27:08,994
quantum objects

738
00:27:09,375 --> 00:27:12,355
that allow us to actually extract somehow

739
00:27:12,815 --> 00:27:14,355
information of 1 object

740
00:27:14,815 --> 00:27:16,434
from a measurement of the other,

741
00:27:17,670 --> 00:27:18,970
but it's very fragile.

742
00:27:19,910 --> 00:27:22,170
It's subject to quantum rules,

743
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:24,309
and, therefore, there are a lot of things

744
00:27:24,309 --> 00:27:25,610
that we need to learn

745
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:26,730
how to

746
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:29,369
make it work for us.

747
00:27:29,910 --> 00:27:31,369
Yes. Well, I think entanglement

748
00:27:31,910 --> 00:27:32,650
is everywhere.

749
00:27:33,125 --> 00:27:35,924
I mean, an atom the electrons inside an

750
00:27:35,924 --> 00:27:37,225
atom are fully entangled.

751
00:27:38,164 --> 00:27:40,644
I mean, entanglement is part of our day

752
00:27:40,644 --> 00:27:41,225
to day

753
00:27:41,765 --> 00:27:42,265
world.

754
00:27:42,565 --> 00:27:44,744
The problem is that we cannot

755
00:27:45,045 --> 00:27:47,389
harness in the way that is useful.

756
00:27:48,009 --> 00:27:50,269
The problem is that we have our system

757
00:27:50,809 --> 00:27:52,970
and gets entangled with the rest of the

758
00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:54,970
world. And if we want to isolate the

759
00:27:54,970 --> 00:27:57,230
systems and not let us remove the entanglement

760
00:27:57,369 --> 00:27:59,214
with the rest of the world, That's the

761
00:27:59,214 --> 00:28:02,755
hard part. But, if you look at how

762
00:28:02,815 --> 00:28:06,514
atoms are served, they form singlet triplet states.

763
00:28:06,654 --> 00:28:07,794
They're fully entangled,

764
00:28:08,095 --> 00:28:09,954
but they live in this microscopic

765
00:28:10,734 --> 00:28:12,674
object that, we cannot

766
00:28:13,294 --> 00:28:14,250
act I mean,

767
00:28:15,529 --> 00:28:16,750
electrons or

768
00:28:17,049 --> 00:28:20,109
nuclei inside the atoms are really tightly bound,

769
00:28:20,329 --> 00:28:21,069
and therefore,

770
00:28:21,930 --> 00:28:24,490
they can conserve and preserve their entanglement in

771
00:28:24,490 --> 00:28:25,069
a very

772
00:28:25,450 --> 00:28:27,785
good way. The problem, what we are trying

773
00:28:27,785 --> 00:28:30,585
to do is to use objects that are

774
00:28:30,585 --> 00:28:31,565
weakly interacting

775
00:28:32,424 --> 00:28:35,065
and try to make them talk to each

776
00:28:35,065 --> 00:28:35,565
other

777
00:28:36,265 --> 00:28:38,279
only without coupling to the

778
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,200
outward eye or the the environment, the other

779
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,259
the the things that they talk to indirectly,

780
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,840
and that's why it's challenging. So it's not

781
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:49,660
that the entanglement

782
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,700
is is not the rule in our universe.

783
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,015
Entanglement is there, but we need to learn

784
00:28:56,015 --> 00:28:58,174
how to use it in an appropriate way.

785
00:28:58,174 --> 00:29:00,414
Helga Land. What are you hoping for from

786
00:29:00,414 --> 00:29:02,595
that meeting? It's going to be exciting.

787
00:29:02,894 --> 00:29:04,515
The interesting part

788
00:29:04,974 --> 00:29:06,674
is that, our field

789
00:29:07,055 --> 00:29:09,634
is working in very diverse directions.

790
00:29:10,390 --> 00:29:12,390
And many times when we go to conference,

791
00:29:12,390 --> 00:29:15,109
we only talk to our own group. That

792
00:29:15,109 --> 00:29:15,849
is great,

793
00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:19,210
but many times, the best ideas come

794
00:29:19,670 --> 00:29:22,410
by discussing with other people that are doing

795
00:29:23,095 --> 00:29:25,654
similar but different things. So my hope in

796
00:29:25,654 --> 00:29:28,235
this conference is try to talk to colleagues,

797
00:29:28,535 --> 00:29:30,615
but also learn new things from other people

798
00:29:30,615 --> 00:29:32,375
and try to see if there is some

799
00:29:32,375 --> 00:29:33,674
crosstalk on familiarization

800
00:29:34,535 --> 00:29:36,154
that we can use to make,

801
00:29:36,690 --> 00:29:40,450
each of the different fields grow more thanks

802
00:29:40,450 --> 00:29:40,950
to

803
00:29:41,250 --> 00:29:44,230
information that we get from other disciplines.

804
00:29:44,609 --> 00:29:46,929
Because, I mean, what we have learned during

805
00:29:46,929 --> 00:29:49,409
this hundred years of quantum mechanics has been

806
00:29:49,409 --> 00:29:49,909
amazing,

807
00:29:50,474 --> 00:29:50,974
And

808
00:29:51,275 --> 00:29:53,434
the hope is that in the next hundred

809
00:29:53,434 --> 00:29:55,295
years is going to be

810
00:29:55,674 --> 00:29:56,174
even

811
00:29:56,795 --> 00:29:59,674
better, like, something that we cannot dream of.

812
00:29:59,674 --> 00:30:02,234
I'm not sure if the quantum computer is

813
00:30:02,234 --> 00:30:03,835
going to be what we are going to

814
00:30:03,835 --> 00:30:06,210
be the most proud in hundred years. And

815
00:30:06,210 --> 00:30:06,710
I

816
00:30:07,089 --> 00:30:09,750
hope that in hundred years, if we have

817
00:30:10,130 --> 00:30:10,630
some

818
00:30:11,089 --> 00:30:11,589
way

819
00:30:11,970 --> 00:30:14,150
to use our quantum knowledge

820
00:30:14,690 --> 00:30:15,589
or some

821
00:30:16,130 --> 00:30:19,075
system that can tell us how our universe

822
00:30:19,134 --> 00:30:21,394
work because there are many of the questions

823
00:30:21,775 --> 00:30:22,595
that we

824
00:30:23,055 --> 00:30:23,875
don't know

825
00:30:24,255 --> 00:30:24,755
yet.

826
00:30:25,134 --> 00:30:26,355
And we don't understand,

827
00:30:27,055 --> 00:30:30,255
and maybe we understand them. Then the way

828
00:30:30,255 --> 00:30:30,994
that we

829
00:30:31,850 --> 00:30:32,350
approach

830
00:30:32,730 --> 00:30:34,109
our day to day

831
00:30:36,090 --> 00:30:38,650
technology or the technology that we use every

832
00:30:38,650 --> 00:30:40,750
day is going to radically change.

833
00:30:41,289 --> 00:30:42,970
And do you think it's important to sort

834
00:30:42,970 --> 00:30:45,850
of commemorate these moments in in history, like,

835
00:30:45,850 --> 00:30:46,750
you know, Heisenberg's

836
00:30:47,724 --> 00:30:49,724
discoveries in Helgoland. Do you think it's important

837
00:30:49,724 --> 00:30:51,484
for science to look at the history in

838
00:30:51,484 --> 00:30:53,345
that way? Yes. Because

839
00:30:53,644 --> 00:30:54,625
many times,

840
00:30:56,204 --> 00:30:58,544
history repeats in some way or the other.

841
00:30:58,924 --> 00:31:01,345
And if we are able to understand,

842
00:31:02,309 --> 00:31:03,849
I mean, I think science,

843
00:31:04,869 --> 00:31:05,690
many times

844
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:07,049
have them

845
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:10,089
is when something very revolutionary

846
00:31:10,390 --> 00:31:10,890
happens

847
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:13,049
that, that is when,

848
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:16,785
we can make a leap. And sometimes revolutionary

849
00:31:18,445 --> 00:31:18,945
thinking

850
00:31:19,644 --> 00:31:20,144
takes

851
00:31:20,684 --> 00:31:21,505
a lot of

852
00:31:22,045 --> 00:31:24,285
effort because we are not necessarily willing to

853
00:31:24,285 --> 00:31:25,664
change the way that we

854
00:31:26,365 --> 00:31:27,105
see signs.

855
00:31:27,725 --> 00:31:30,359
So learning from the past and how this

856
00:31:30,359 --> 00:31:30,859
type

857
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:32,220
of big leaps

858
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,160
in our understanding happened can tell us a

859
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:35,660
lot,

860
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,079
for for how to handle them in the

861
00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:41,240
future and ways to try to actually trigger

862
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,954
them because that's what we want. Are you

863
00:31:43,954 --> 00:31:45,474
looking forward to actually going to the island,

864
00:31:45,474 --> 00:31:46,674
though? I know you're looking forward to the

865
00:31:46,674 --> 00:31:48,195
science, but are you looking forward to actually

866
00:31:48,195 --> 00:31:49,954
going to that place? I have not looked

867
00:31:49,954 --> 00:31:52,595
into that in detail. So this is something

868
00:31:52,595 --> 00:31:54,515
that I do only very close to the

869
00:31:54,515 --> 00:31:56,755
conference. So I first look at the science,

870
00:31:56,755 --> 00:31:58,855
and then I look to the actual place.

871
00:31:59,349 --> 00:32:01,269
So, yes, but maybe if I have a

872
00:32:01,269 --> 00:32:04,089
chance, I will I will I will enjoy.

873
00:32:04,309 --> 00:32:05,509
So you when you were growing up, did

874
00:32:05,509 --> 00:32:07,029
you think maybe 1 day I'll be going

875
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:09,429
to Helgoland to talk about quantum physics with

876
00:32:09,429 --> 00:32:10,169
other people?

877
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:12,809
No. No. No. No. I mean,

878
00:32:13,429 --> 00:32:14,490
I'm from Colombia.

879
00:32:15,554 --> 00:32:16,454
So, actually,

880
00:32:17,154 --> 00:32:19,075
even when I came to The for me,

881
00:32:19,075 --> 00:32:21,414
even there when I was reading the papers,

882
00:32:23,875 --> 00:32:26,534
the the authors of the papers were like

883
00:32:26,835 --> 00:32:29,580
like gods. I mean, I would I just

884
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,039
I when I came to The US and

885
00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:34,140
had the chance to actually talk in person

886
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,279
with the people who were the authors of

887
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:37,900
the paper, it was wow.

888
00:32:38,279 --> 00:32:41,559
So, definitely, I never have thought that when

889
00:32:41,559 --> 00:32:43,034
I was. There. They always say don't meet

890
00:32:43,034 --> 00:32:44,714
your heroes. Is there anybody who you've met

891
00:32:44,714 --> 00:32:46,634
and thought, yeah. No. This is someone you

892
00:32:46,634 --> 00:32:49,274
should meet. Anyone you're particularly excited and were

893
00:32:49,274 --> 00:32:51,714
great. 1 person in my career that has

894
00:32:51,714 --> 00:32:54,329
has inspired or what I do because of

895
00:32:54,329 --> 00:32:57,289
his amazing experiments is Junjie, but he's down

896
00:32:57,289 --> 00:32:59,769
in the lab here at JILA. But I

897
00:32:59,769 --> 00:33:01,789
think he's a really remarkable

898
00:33:02,089 --> 00:33:02,589
individual

899
00:33:02,890 --> 00:33:04,109
and a role model

900
00:33:04,490 --> 00:33:05,710
in size for everybody

901
00:33:06,250 --> 00:33:08,429
that can cover many different directions.

902
00:33:09,464 --> 00:33:09,964
So

903
00:33:10,505 --> 00:33:12,984
so but, I mean, I I it's hard

904
00:33:12,984 --> 00:33:13,884
for me to tell

905
00:33:14,265 --> 00:33:16,684
because, I mean, of course, there are

906
00:33:17,785 --> 00:33:20,984
amazing people nowadays that are driving the field

907
00:33:20,984 --> 00:33:22,664
in a way that we can imagine. Even

908
00:33:22,664 --> 00:33:23,404
my students

909
00:33:24,025 --> 00:33:24,480
now,

910
00:33:25,679 --> 00:33:27,440
when I look at them, some of them

911
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:28,720
are very impressive.

912
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:29,700
Definitely

913
00:33:30,079 --> 00:33:32,880
much better that what I was or many

914
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,799
of my colleagues at that time. So I

915
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:37,779
think people are learning and becoming so strong

916
00:33:38,194 --> 00:33:40,355
that, that's what I'm very optimistic that we

917
00:33:40,355 --> 00:33:41,015
will have

918
00:33:41,634 --> 00:33:43,414
a really, really, really impressive,

919
00:33:44,994 --> 00:33:45,494
advances,

920
00:33:46,434 --> 00:33:48,134
as we move forward.

921
00:33:48,755 --> 00:33:51,894
With theorists like Anna Maria Ray and practitioners

922
00:33:52,275 --> 00:33:53,575
like Natalie de Leon

923
00:33:53,940 --> 00:33:56,579
making their way to Helgoland for Helgoland twenty

924
00:33:56,579 --> 00:33:59,460
twenty five later this year. It promises to

925
00:33:59,460 --> 00:34:01,700
be something of a fascinating workshop. And I

926
00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:04,259
wanted to find out more about that, so

927
00:34:04,259 --> 00:34:06,194
I spoke to Jack Harris, one of the

928
00:34:06,194 --> 00:34:06,694
people

929
00:34:06,994 --> 00:34:10,195
involved in organizing it. I'm a professor of

930
00:34:10,195 --> 00:34:12,534
physics at Yale University. Personally,

931
00:34:12,914 --> 00:34:13,414
I,

932
00:34:14,514 --> 00:34:15,574
became a physicist

933
00:34:16,275 --> 00:34:19,610
because of curiosity about quantum mechanics and sort

934
00:34:19,610 --> 00:34:22,269
of what I learned in high school from

935
00:34:22,730 --> 00:34:23,630
semi popular

936
00:34:24,329 --> 00:34:24,829
books,

937
00:34:25,289 --> 00:34:27,449
for general audience. This would be like John

938
00:34:27,449 --> 00:34:29,070
Gribben and Roger Penrose

939
00:34:29,449 --> 00:34:29,949
and,

940
00:34:33,050 --> 00:34:35,070
Paul Davies, folks like that.

941
00:34:35,505 --> 00:34:37,585
So, yeah, I became a physicist because of

942
00:34:37,585 --> 00:34:39,844
curiosity about quantum mechanics and,

943
00:34:40,385 --> 00:34:41,444
maybe the philosophical

944
00:34:41,744 --> 00:34:43,585
side or just the kind of gee whiz

945
00:34:43,585 --> 00:34:45,984
side that it's amazing that the world we

946
00:34:45,984 --> 00:34:48,224
live in seems so familiar is built in

947
00:34:48,224 --> 00:34:49,589
such a peculiar

948
00:34:50,130 --> 00:34:52,690
way. My day to day research is still

949
00:34:52,690 --> 00:34:55,409
partially motivated by that. A chunk of my

950
00:34:55,409 --> 00:34:56,230
research group,

951
00:34:56,530 --> 00:34:59,269
work on experiments that are really motivated by

952
00:34:59,329 --> 00:35:02,309
trying to understand in how big an object

953
00:35:02,964 --> 00:35:05,704
can you see behavior that is quantum mechanical.

954
00:35:05,844 --> 00:35:06,344
Oh,

955
00:35:06,644 --> 00:35:08,565
so how big an object can you see?

956
00:35:08,565 --> 00:35:11,204
Okay. So I have learned that maybe a

957
00:35:11,204 --> 00:35:13,445
helpful 1 helpful way of thinking about this

958
00:35:13,445 --> 00:35:13,945
question

959
00:35:14,324 --> 00:35:16,724
is that it's not like 1 dimensional thing

960
00:35:16,724 --> 00:35:19,500
like. It's not just, oh, well in a

961
00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:21,019
in an atom, oh, but now in a

962
00:35:21,019 --> 00:35:23,420
molecule. There's sort of a couple axes to

963
00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:24,160
think about.

964
00:35:24,940 --> 00:35:26,400
1 is certainly

965
00:35:26,940 --> 00:35:29,260
how big the object is, maybe like in

966
00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:31,820
terms of its mass. That's certainly an important

967
00:35:31,820 --> 00:35:32,320
axis.

968
00:35:32,864 --> 00:35:35,105
Another is maybe how big it is in

969
00:35:35,105 --> 00:35:35,605
space,

970
00:35:35,905 --> 00:35:38,144
which is to say if you've made a

971
00:35:38,144 --> 00:35:38,644
superposition

972
00:35:39,264 --> 00:35:41,105
of an object, the 2 parts of the

973
00:35:41,105 --> 00:35:43,204
superposition separated by 1 nanometer,

974
00:35:43,905 --> 00:35:47,045
1 millimeter, 1 meter. That's an important question.

975
00:35:47,539 --> 00:35:48,980
And then the third question, which is a

976
00:35:48,980 --> 00:35:51,219
little bit more subtle is, okay. You have

977
00:35:51,219 --> 00:35:53,380
a big object. It's spread out over a

978
00:35:53,380 --> 00:35:56,019
lot of distance. But what specifically is the

979
00:35:56,019 --> 00:35:57,079
quantum phenomena

980
00:35:57,539 --> 00:35:59,719
that you are seeing it exhibit?

981
00:36:00,625 --> 00:36:02,625
There's a bit of a hierarchy here.

982
00:36:03,505 --> 00:36:05,425
And 1 way that I like to think

983
00:36:05,425 --> 00:36:07,825
about it is, okay, you do an experiment,

984
00:36:07,825 --> 00:36:10,644
you measure it, the data that you record,

985
00:36:10,945 --> 00:36:12,885
the phenomena that you observe,

986
00:36:13,469 --> 00:36:14,449
what aspects

987
00:36:14,750 --> 00:36:15,570
of quantum

988
00:36:16,750 --> 00:36:18,929
sorry. What aspects of classical intuition

989
00:36:19,469 --> 00:36:21,409
does it require you to abandon?

990
00:36:22,590 --> 00:36:24,190
And some phenomena that are you know, we

991
00:36:24,190 --> 00:36:26,750
think of as distinctly quantum mechanics. Let's say

992
00:36:26,750 --> 00:36:27,889
0 motion.

993
00:36:28,295 --> 00:36:28,954
The idea

994
00:36:29,414 --> 00:36:32,155
that you remove all the energy you can

995
00:36:32,215 --> 00:36:34,875
from an object, and it still got motion.

996
00:36:36,614 --> 00:36:39,255
This certainly comes about from quantum mechanics, but

997
00:36:39,255 --> 00:36:41,755
you get phenomena like that even in classical

998
00:36:41,815 --> 00:36:42,315
mechanics

999
00:36:42,699 --> 00:36:44,640
if you just didn't quite successfully,

1000
00:36:46,059 --> 00:36:49,420
cool the object sufficiently. There's, like, a lot

1001
00:36:49,420 --> 00:36:51,679
of the quantum fluctuations that you might see

1002
00:36:51,820 --> 00:36:54,079
would look just like thermal fluctuations.

1003
00:36:54,954 --> 00:36:56,795
And so that's maybe sort of a a

1004
00:36:56,795 --> 00:36:58,494
modestly quantum phenomenon.

1005
00:36:58,795 --> 00:36:59,694
It's how are you

1006
00:37:00,155 --> 00:37:02,394
differentiating between those things? So I gave you

1007
00:37:02,394 --> 00:37:04,474
an example of data that you could take,

1008
00:37:04,474 --> 00:37:06,074
which would be you know, if you were

1009
00:37:06,074 --> 00:37:07,514
very careful, you could say, look, I have

1010
00:37:07,514 --> 00:37:08,734
this harmonic oscillator.

1011
00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:11,619
I've studied it very carefully. I really carefully

1012
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,920
removed all the energy, and it still has

1013
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,079
this little bit of motion, which is set

1014
00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:17,380
by Planck's constant.

1015
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,000
And so you could reasonably claim that you

1016
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,860
have seen a quantum mechanical effector.

1017
00:37:23,385 --> 00:37:25,065
But a skeptic could say, look,

1018
00:37:25,385 --> 00:37:27,704
you know, I don't really believe that quantum

1019
00:37:27,704 --> 00:37:29,625
mechanics applies to such big things, and you

1020
00:37:29,625 --> 00:37:32,105
just made a mistake, and it's still coupled

1021
00:37:32,105 --> 00:37:33,804
to a thermal bath. That's fine.

1022
00:37:34,105 --> 00:37:36,425
There are other experiments that you could make,

1023
00:37:36,425 --> 00:37:39,005
like, suppose that you, in certain states,

1024
00:37:40,420 --> 00:37:42,599
if you measure if you prepare a state

1025
00:37:42,820 --> 00:37:45,140
and measure the position and reprepare the state

1026
00:37:45,140 --> 00:37:46,660
to measure the position, we all know you

1027
00:37:46,660 --> 00:37:47,880
get a certain distribution.

1028
00:37:48,820 --> 00:37:49,719
And if you

1029
00:37:50,260 --> 00:37:53,000
prepare that state, but sometimes instead of measuring

1030
00:37:53,140 --> 00:37:54,680
position, you measure momentum,

1031
00:37:55,674 --> 00:37:56,974
You'll also get a distribution.

1032
00:37:57,594 --> 00:37:59,674
And quantum mechanics also allows you to prepare

1033
00:37:59,674 --> 00:38:02,394
the states and measure some combination of position

1034
00:38:02,394 --> 00:38:03,054
and momentum,

1035
00:38:04,474 --> 00:38:05,534
some linear combination.

1036
00:38:05,914 --> 00:38:07,855
And if you take all of those results,

1037
00:38:08,059 --> 00:38:09,739
you know, you'll get distributions for each of

1038
00:38:09,739 --> 00:38:11,579
these measurements. None of them are gonna look

1039
00:38:11,579 --> 00:38:13,659
particularly exotic. But if you were to say,

1040
00:38:13,659 --> 00:38:15,519
what is the underlying distribution,

1041
00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:16,719
the simultaneous

1042
00:38:17,340 --> 00:38:19,119
distribution of position momentum

1043
00:38:19,739 --> 00:38:21,945
that I must have had prior to my

1044
00:38:21,945 --> 00:38:22,445
measurements

1045
00:38:22,744 --> 00:38:24,045
to give me these outcomes,

1046
00:38:25,385 --> 00:38:26,364
you can be,

1047
00:38:26,825 --> 00:38:28,265
you will there are,

1048
00:38:28,664 --> 00:38:29,164
datasets

1049
00:38:30,105 --> 00:38:32,925
where the answer to that question will involve,

1050
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,380
like, a negative probability

1051
00:38:34,679 --> 00:38:35,179
distribution.

1052
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,380
The only way that you could get,

1053
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,880
a distribution for momenta that looks like this

1054
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,960
and a distribution for positions that look like

1055
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,420
this is if the

1056
00:38:45,855 --> 00:38:47,635
underlying joint probability

1057
00:38:48,175 --> 00:38:49,715
of position and momentum,

1058
00:38:50,894 --> 00:38:53,855
involved negative probabilities, which is sort of not

1059
00:38:53,855 --> 00:38:55,614
not a real thing. That's not what a

1060
00:38:55,614 --> 00:38:58,815
probability is. And so people you could interpret

1061
00:38:58,815 --> 00:39:01,069
this as reflecting the fact that it is

1062
00:39:01,069 --> 00:39:03,449
not really possible for a system to have

1063
00:39:03,909 --> 00:39:04,409
simultaneously,

1064
00:39:06,069 --> 00:39:08,089
value of position and momentum.

1065
00:39:09,109 --> 00:39:11,670
So that's a sort of, that's data that

1066
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:13,269
you could take, and you would look at

1067
00:39:13,269 --> 00:39:14,885
it, and you would say, look. Whether or

1068
00:39:14,885 --> 00:39:16,925
not I believe in quantum mechanics, there is

1069
00:39:16,925 --> 00:39:17,664
no story

1070
00:39:18,285 --> 00:39:19,664
that explains this data

1071
00:39:20,204 --> 00:39:21,025
by giving,

1072
00:39:21,644 --> 00:39:22,305
the system

1073
00:39:23,244 --> 00:39:25,184
actual values of position momentum

1074
00:39:25,565 --> 00:39:28,445
independent of my measurements. You say whether or

1075
00:39:28,445 --> 00:39:31,050
not I believe in quantum mechanics. I mean,

1076
00:39:31,050 --> 00:39:32,890
are there people who don't believe in it?

1077
00:39:33,610 --> 00:39:36,750
Not really, but it's still a useful exercise

1078
00:39:37,130 --> 00:39:38,190
for a couple reasons.

1079
00:39:39,050 --> 00:39:40,110
1 is,

1080
00:39:41,885 --> 00:39:44,684
let's say every, I think every most reasonable

1081
00:39:44,684 --> 00:39:46,944
people believe that quantum mechanics is an extremely

1082
00:39:47,085 --> 00:39:49,724
accurate theory of every system we've applied it

1083
00:39:49,724 --> 00:39:50,704
to so far.

1084
00:39:51,484 --> 00:39:52,844
But I also think it's safe to say

1085
00:39:52,844 --> 00:39:54,605
that, like, we've never had a theory in

1086
00:39:54,605 --> 00:39:56,789
all of the history of science that covered

1087
00:39:56,789 --> 00:39:59,750
everything. Every theory has had a limited domain

1088
00:39:59,750 --> 00:40:00,730
of accuracy.

1089
00:40:01,190 --> 00:40:03,030
And so we want to know, like, at

1090
00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:05,110
some point, maybe we'll do an experiment that

1091
00:40:05,110 --> 00:40:07,430
goes outside the domain of accuracy of quantum

1092
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:09,430
mechanics. And so it's very important to be

1093
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:10,070
able to say,

1094
00:40:11,664 --> 00:40:12,404
I saw

1095
00:40:12,704 --> 00:40:14,864
phenomenon x. Like, I just my date here's

1096
00:40:14,864 --> 00:40:16,384
the data in my lab book that I

1097
00:40:16,384 --> 00:40:19,605
saw. Is this or is this not consistent

1098
00:40:19,664 --> 00:40:20,804
with quantum mechanics?

1099
00:40:22,384 --> 00:40:22,884
And,

1100
00:40:24,144 --> 00:40:26,065
so do you we all believe that quantum

1101
00:40:26,065 --> 00:40:27,609
mechanics is a pretty good theory, but but

1102
00:40:27,609 --> 00:40:29,289
if you believe at some point it's not

1103
00:40:29,289 --> 00:40:31,449
going to be accurate, you it's very helpful

1104
00:40:31,449 --> 00:40:33,449
to be able to distinguish between what you're

1105
00:40:33,449 --> 00:40:36,510
seeing is required by quantum mechanics or contradicts

1106
00:40:36,889 --> 00:40:37,389
it.

1107
00:40:38,170 --> 00:40:40,429
Another way to answer that question is,

1108
00:40:41,849 --> 00:40:42,224
if,

1109
00:40:43,345 --> 00:40:45,265
again, like, if you absolutely believe quantum mechanics,

1110
00:40:45,265 --> 00:40:46,785
which, you know, I do for all the

1111
00:40:46,785 --> 00:40:48,724
all the things that we experiment on,

1112
00:40:51,985 --> 00:40:52,485
but

1113
00:40:52,864 --> 00:40:55,380
if the apparently weird data that you take

1114
00:40:55,699 --> 00:40:58,599
does have, in principle, a classical explanation,

1115
00:40:59,699 --> 00:41:02,279
then chances are the phenomena that you're observing

1116
00:41:02,579 --> 00:41:05,719
don't let you do anything that classical mechanics

1117
00:41:06,019 --> 00:41:07,319
wouldn't let you do.

1118
00:41:07,644 --> 00:41:08,925
Another way of saying it is that if

1119
00:41:08,925 --> 00:41:11,184
you see phenomena that don't have a classical

1120
00:41:11,244 --> 00:41:11,744
explanation,

1121
00:41:12,204 --> 00:41:14,204
you may you may be able to do

1122
00:41:14,204 --> 00:41:16,364
things that you literally would not be able

1123
00:41:16,364 --> 00:41:18,864
to do under the laws of classical mechanics.

1124
00:41:19,244 --> 00:41:20,144
And the quintessential

1125
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,819
example of this would be quantum computing,

1126
00:41:23,359 --> 00:41:24,579
cryptography, and,

1127
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,900
information processing. They are aspects of

1128
00:41:29,279 --> 00:41:32,159
this science which will be impacting on people's

1129
00:41:32,159 --> 00:41:34,420
lives. But it to a certain extent,

1130
00:41:35,385 --> 00:41:37,545
they could live their lives without ever knowing

1131
00:41:37,545 --> 00:41:40,184
that quantum was involved in them. Right? I

1132
00:41:40,184 --> 00:41:41,625
think that's fair to say in the same

1133
00:41:41,625 --> 00:41:43,324
sense that, you know, people use their

1134
00:41:43,864 --> 00:41:46,844
phones and tablets and computers without maybe appreciating

1135
00:41:46,985 --> 00:41:49,380
the field effect transistor and, you know, the

1136
00:41:49,380 --> 00:41:50,280
band structure,

1137
00:41:51,219 --> 00:41:54,119
behavior of electrons flowing through crystal and semiconductors.

1138
00:41:54,820 --> 00:41:56,119
So, yeah, maybe this

1139
00:41:56,900 --> 00:41:58,900
technology that we hear so much about will

1140
00:41:58,900 --> 00:42:00,425
just become part of the background at some

1141
00:42:00,425 --> 00:42:02,585
point. There's this other thing that's happening in

1142
00:42:02,585 --> 00:42:04,025
in in the in the world at the

1143
00:42:04,025 --> 00:42:05,465
moment. You may have heard of it. It's

1144
00:42:05,465 --> 00:42:06,764
called artificial intelligence.

1145
00:42:07,224 --> 00:42:07,704
And,

1146
00:42:08,105 --> 00:42:10,605
it that's had a, like, a huge impact.

1147
00:42:10,664 --> 00:42:13,405
People are talking about it on the news

1148
00:42:13,704 --> 00:42:15,244
in education establishments

1149
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,400
all over the place all the time at

1150
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:18,840
the moment. Do you think there will come

1151
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,780
a time when people are talking about

1152
00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:22,380
quantum technologies

1153
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,760
to that extent? Is it gonna have that

1154
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:25,500
sort of impact?

1155
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,980
I'm not great at predicting the future,

1156
00:42:29,694 --> 00:42:31,454
but let me I I think there are

1157
00:42:31,454 --> 00:42:33,694
some important differences, at least in the world

1158
00:42:33,694 --> 00:42:36,014
as it is today, which is that to

1159
00:42:36,014 --> 00:42:36,675
some extent,

1160
00:42:37,135 --> 00:42:38,034
quantum computing

1161
00:42:40,255 --> 00:42:42,670
may not look like a real game changer.

1162
00:42:42,670 --> 00:42:44,030
I mean, maybe I have this wrong. So

1163
00:42:44,030 --> 00:42:45,869
quantum computing, first of all, is not, like,

1164
00:42:45,869 --> 00:42:46,849
my area of expertise.

1165
00:42:47,230 --> 00:42:47,730
But

1166
00:42:48,030 --> 00:42:49,969
as I understand it, you know, it offers

1167
00:42:50,030 --> 00:42:52,849
big speed ups around certain computational tasks.

1168
00:42:53,390 --> 00:42:56,144
And, you know, our society is built on

1169
00:42:56,144 --> 00:42:59,505
the assumption that computational tasks will gradually be

1170
00:42:59,505 --> 00:43:01,105
sped up over the years, right, whether it's

1171
00:43:01,105 --> 00:43:02,324
Moore's law or whatever.

1172
00:43:02,945 --> 00:43:04,244
AI, I think, is different

1173
00:43:04,704 --> 00:43:06,644
in that it has really revolutionized

1174
00:43:07,184 --> 00:43:08,724
the way that people think

1175
00:43:09,265 --> 00:43:11,789
of what computers can do. I mean, at

1176
00:43:11,789 --> 00:43:13,869
some level, it is still just about better

1177
00:43:13,869 --> 00:43:15,090
algorithms and hardware

1178
00:43:15,469 --> 00:43:17,949
and conventional speeding up. But I think AI

1179
00:43:17,949 --> 00:43:18,690
is really,

1180
00:43:19,150 --> 00:43:20,449
a shift in,

1181
00:43:22,110 --> 00:43:24,344
what computers can actually do in terms of

1182
00:43:24,344 --> 00:43:27,224
mimicking human beings, in terms of producing content

1183
00:43:27,224 --> 00:43:28,284
that seems original

1184
00:43:28,664 --> 00:43:31,244
in a way that quantum computing is sort

1185
00:43:31,704 --> 00:43:34,605
of maybe in some ways just a a

1186
00:43:34,824 --> 00:43:37,085
technique for keeping Moore's law going.

1187
00:43:37,610 --> 00:43:39,050
As I say, Jack Harris is 1 of

1188
00:43:39,050 --> 00:43:41,769
the organizers of Helgoland twenty twenty five, and

1189
00:43:41,769 --> 00:43:44,670
I wondered what he was most excited about

1190
00:43:44,809 --> 00:43:47,369
at the workshop. There are 2 parts. 1

1191
00:43:47,369 --> 00:43:48,910
is just a story.

1192
00:43:49,369 --> 00:43:50,750
So, like, every community,

1193
00:43:52,170 --> 00:43:53,924
every kind of group of people,

1194
00:43:55,824 --> 00:43:58,625
that's united by something is probably united by

1195
00:43:58,625 --> 00:43:59,125
stories.

1196
00:43:59,984 --> 00:44:00,484
And,

1197
00:44:01,264 --> 00:44:03,984
in science, we're united by ideas and goals

1198
00:44:03,984 --> 00:44:04,724
and beliefs,

1199
00:44:05,344 --> 00:44:06,244
maybe mostly.

1200
00:44:07,569 --> 00:44:09,730
But in addition to that, there are, you

1201
00:44:09,730 --> 00:44:12,050
know, a handful of stories. The apple falling

1202
00:44:12,050 --> 00:44:14,230
on Isaac Newton's head is a story.

1203
00:44:15,889 --> 00:44:16,389
And,

1204
00:44:17,170 --> 00:44:18,230
1 of the stories,

1205
00:44:18,690 --> 00:44:19,989
which is, you know, part

1206
00:44:20,289 --> 00:44:23,865
folk tale, part myth, part actual history, some

1207
00:44:23,865 --> 00:44:25,704
kind of blend of that. But, 1 of

1208
00:44:25,704 --> 00:44:27,885
the stories in our community is that,

1209
00:44:28,184 --> 00:44:29,945
you know, it was clear by

1210
00:44:31,065 --> 00:44:33,510
'19 o 05/00, '19 o 09/00 that something

1211
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:34,969
very deep was going on,

1212
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:38,230
that we didn't that wasn't understood. And Niels

1213
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:40,390
Bohr led the way in starting to puzzle

1214
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:41,369
that out. But,

1215
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:45,130
for twenty or so years, there were ideas,

1216
00:44:45,429 --> 00:44:47,530
but not like a firm mathematical

1217
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:48,329
theory.

1218
00:44:50,195 --> 00:44:50,695
And

1219
00:44:51,315 --> 00:44:53,555
the full history, which is, you know, at

1220
00:44:53,555 --> 00:44:55,235
least partially true, is that there was this

1221
00:44:55,235 --> 00:44:58,135
promising young graduate student who had terrible allergies

1222
00:44:58,835 --> 00:45:01,255
and asked his adviser if he could go

1223
00:45:01,430 --> 00:45:03,210
to the kind of 1 place in Germany

1224
00:45:03,269 --> 00:45:04,809
that was free of pollen.

1225
00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:07,430
And this is Werner Heisenberg, and this is

1226
00:45:07,430 --> 00:45:08,309
1925.

1227
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:10,570
And in the 3 that he was there,

1228
00:45:10,869 --> 00:45:11,530
he made,

1229
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:14,470
you know, in a nutshell, he invented quantum

1230
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:16,550
mechanics, and there should be finger quotes around

1231
00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:18,454
that. But, you know, he made a major

1232
00:45:18,454 --> 00:45:20,375
breakthrough. It took a big leap. It was

1233
00:45:20,375 --> 00:45:20,875
kind

1234
00:45:21,335 --> 00:45:23,914
of a watershed or the watershed event.

1235
00:45:25,175 --> 00:45:25,675
And

1236
00:45:26,055 --> 00:45:27,434
the idea that,

1237
00:45:27,735 --> 00:45:30,055
there's something very romantic about this. Like, this

1238
00:45:30,055 --> 00:45:32,099
could be in a Mary Shelley novel. Right?

1239
00:45:32,739 --> 00:45:33,239
Somebody

1240
00:45:33,619 --> 00:45:35,160
disappears to this remote,

1241
00:45:35,940 --> 00:45:37,700
island in the middle of the North Sea

1242
00:45:37,700 --> 00:45:39,400
and, you know, watching the sunrise

1243
00:45:39,780 --> 00:45:40,519
over the

1244
00:45:40,980 --> 00:45:41,480
red,

1245
00:45:41,940 --> 00:45:42,440
bluffs,

1246
00:45:42,900 --> 00:45:45,184
you know, has this brilliant flash of

1247
00:45:46,085 --> 00:45:46,585
insight.

1248
00:45:47,724 --> 00:45:49,565
It's not I don't think the real history

1249
00:45:49,565 --> 00:45:51,644
is exactly that simple, but this is a

1250
00:45:51,644 --> 00:45:53,025
very compelling story.

1251
00:45:53,485 --> 00:45:55,565
And it's very compelling that, like, the topic

1252
00:45:55,565 --> 00:45:56,224
of our

1253
00:45:56,525 --> 00:45:57,025
fascination

1254
00:45:57,724 --> 00:45:59,570
has a place and a time,

1255
00:46:00,590 --> 00:46:01,809
like, a an actual,

1256
00:46:02,430 --> 00:46:04,130
you know, clearly defined

1257
00:46:04,590 --> 00:46:05,090
quantized

1258
00:46:05,550 --> 00:46:07,170
discrete place in Ireland

1259
00:46:07,710 --> 00:46:08,769
and a clearly

1260
00:46:09,150 --> 00:46:10,750
defined moment, you know,

1261
00:46:13,164 --> 00:46:15,324
That's that's just kind of, kind of a

1262
00:46:15,324 --> 00:46:15,824
cool

1263
00:46:16,684 --> 00:46:18,384
sort of a story to have,

1264
00:46:19,164 --> 00:46:21,184
as part of the fabric of a community.

1265
00:46:21,644 --> 00:46:23,724
I I love it particularly as a story

1266
00:46:23,724 --> 00:46:25,424
because I read a book about it,

1267
00:46:25,804 --> 00:46:27,884
whilst I was on a small island. In

1268
00:46:27,884 --> 00:46:30,030
which island? It's Lundy Island. Yeah. Oh, and

1269
00:46:30,110 --> 00:46:31,869
yeah. I know. Off the course off the

1270
00:46:31,869 --> 00:46:34,430
coast of sort of Cornwall and Wales. Yes.

1271
00:46:34,430 --> 00:46:35,869
Exactly. That's I've had a great,

1272
00:46:36,269 --> 00:46:38,430
okay. So the other for more personal side

1273
00:46:38,430 --> 00:46:39,469
of this is, like, I have a little

1274
00:46:39,469 --> 00:46:41,090
bit of a fascination with islands.

1275
00:46:42,664 --> 00:46:44,585
So, like, I have looked into going to

1276
00:46:44,585 --> 00:46:46,664
Lundy and not quite made it. Oh, you

1277
00:46:46,664 --> 00:46:48,925
should. Lundy's amazing. I'm very envious.

1278
00:46:49,304 --> 00:46:50,925
I grew up on an island.

1279
00:46:51,224 --> 00:46:52,364
Did you? Which 1?

1280
00:46:52,664 --> 00:46:55,005
Yeah. On, the island of Martha's Vineyard.

1281
00:46:56,219 --> 00:46:58,059
Ah. It goes to Massachusetts in The US.

1282
00:46:58,059 --> 00:47:01,099
Yeah. I you're excited about the the the

1283
00:47:01,099 --> 00:47:02,940
the location as well then, are you? Oh,

1284
00:47:02,940 --> 00:47:04,619
a %. Yeah. So as I mentioned, I

1285
00:47:04,619 --> 00:47:06,320
grew up on an island, and I think,

1286
00:47:07,260 --> 00:47:09,579
eventually leaving the island and coming to the

1287
00:47:09,579 --> 00:47:10,804
mainland, It

1288
00:47:12,224 --> 00:47:13,505
is like a sort of,

1289
00:47:14,625 --> 00:47:15,984
I think, you know, islands are a little

1290
00:47:15,984 --> 00:47:17,925
bit special. Like, the way that

1291
00:47:18,304 --> 00:47:20,005
your world view is

1292
00:47:20,385 --> 00:47:21,045
when there's

1293
00:47:21,585 --> 00:47:23,425
a border. Like, there's an end to your

1294
00:47:23,425 --> 00:47:25,760
world. And it's not sort of gradual, like

1295
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,440
you drive down the highway a little further

1296
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,280
and it's some other time. No. It's like

1297
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:30,820
you're on or you're off.

1298
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,239
This yeah. I think this shapes people's thinking

1299
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:34,980
a little bit.

1300
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,400
So it's it's a folktale, but also you

1301
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,079
like to believe it because you think it's

1302
00:47:40,079 --> 00:47:40,579
true.

1303
00:47:41,034 --> 00:47:43,054
Well, that's the point of folktales. Right?

1304
00:47:44,554 --> 00:47:45,054
They're,

1305
00:47:45,514 --> 00:47:48,074
they have some literal truth, maybe a lot,

1306
00:47:48,074 --> 00:47:50,235
maybe a little, maybe a medium amount. And

1307
00:47:50,235 --> 00:47:52,014
they have also deeper truths,

1308
00:47:52,315 --> 00:47:53,835
which are sort of like, how would we

1309
00:47:53,835 --> 00:47:55,675
like to think about ourselves? What do we

1310
00:47:55,675 --> 00:47:56,175
value?

1311
00:47:56,690 --> 00:47:57,190
And,

1312
00:47:57,570 --> 00:47:59,329
yeah, that's what makes a folktale a good

1313
00:47:59,329 --> 00:47:59,829
folktale.

1314
00:48:00,610 --> 00:48:02,530
Fair enough. What what are you looking forward

1315
00:48:02,530 --> 00:48:04,690
to from the conversations that are gonna take

1316
00:48:04,690 --> 00:48:06,150
place there? Oh, so,

1317
00:48:06,849 --> 00:48:08,869
the principle of sort of organizing

1318
00:48:11,074 --> 00:48:12,275
that was done. So there are 4 of

1319
00:48:12,275 --> 00:48:13,815
us who did the organizing.

1320
00:48:15,795 --> 00:48:18,375
There's me. There's Chaslav Bruckner at Vienna,

1321
00:48:18,835 --> 00:48:19,734
Florian Marquardt

1322
00:48:20,034 --> 00:48:22,594
at the Max Planck Institute in Erlangen, and

1323
00:48:22,594 --> 00:48:23,414
Steve Girvin,

1324
00:48:23,714 --> 00:48:25,980
who's also here at Yale. And I think

1325
00:48:25,980 --> 00:48:28,140
the motivating like, we we talked this through

1326
00:48:28,140 --> 00:48:29,820
many different ways, and I I think 1

1327
00:48:29,820 --> 00:48:31,840
of the motivating principles was that,

1328
00:48:34,539 --> 00:48:35,840
a hundred years on,

1329
00:48:36,380 --> 00:48:38,655
there are, like, a gazillion things. Everything is

1330
00:48:39,054 --> 00:48:40,735
involves quantum mechanics to some extent. Like, we

1331
00:48:40,735 --> 00:48:42,835
could be talking about particle physics or

1332
00:48:43,135 --> 00:48:45,534
many body condensed matter physics or chemistry or

1333
00:48:45,534 --> 00:48:47,614
material science. But if you think about sort

1334
00:48:47,614 --> 00:48:50,015
of what was in the minds of the

1335
00:48:50,015 --> 00:48:50,515
founders,

1336
00:48:51,855 --> 00:48:54,335
in those years and shortly afterwards and sort

1337
00:48:54,335 --> 00:48:54,630
of

1338
00:48:55,589 --> 00:48:58,170
what those thoughts would connect with today.

1339
00:48:59,109 --> 00:49:01,449
It seems that there are really 2

1340
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:03,130
amazingly

1341
00:49:03,429 --> 00:49:03,929
different

1342
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:07,594
components to that. And,

1343
00:49:08,054 --> 00:49:09,034
but that they

1344
00:49:09,335 --> 00:49:11,494
even though they have sometimes been very much

1345
00:49:11,494 --> 00:49:13,175
separated out, they really have a lot to

1346
00:49:13,175 --> 00:49:14,894
say to each other, which are the same

1347
00:49:15,014 --> 00:49:17,835
which are foundational questions. Like, what is,

1348
00:49:18,775 --> 00:49:21,114
what is causation? What is cause and effect?

1349
00:49:21,175 --> 00:49:23,829
What is matter? What are the physical properties

1350
00:49:23,890 --> 00:49:26,050
that entities can possess and how do they

1351
00:49:26,050 --> 00:49:26,869
possess it?

1352
00:49:27,650 --> 00:49:28,309
And then

1353
00:49:28,690 --> 00:49:31,650
how do, like, those ideas in particular end

1354
00:49:31,650 --> 00:49:32,710
up getting applied?

1355
00:49:33,809 --> 00:49:36,929
So to build a quantum computer, which sounds

1356
00:49:36,929 --> 00:49:39,295
like very to some people, would be sort

1357
00:49:39,514 --> 00:49:41,434
of technical in engineering. It's a computer you

1358
00:49:41,434 --> 00:49:43,134
build it. It does the things you want.

1359
00:49:43,194 --> 00:49:45,755
But to make a quantum computer work, you

1360
00:49:45,755 --> 00:49:46,815
really have to,

1361
00:49:48,394 --> 00:49:48,894
absorb

1362
00:49:49,355 --> 00:49:50,574
a lot of the foundation's

1363
00:49:51,755 --> 00:49:53,940
topics. You really have to understand, you know,

1364
00:49:53,940 --> 00:49:56,199
what is a measurement, how do measurements

1365
00:49:56,500 --> 00:49:58,440
impact things, what kinds of information,

1366
00:49:59,699 --> 00:50:01,460
you know, alters the way a system is

1367
00:50:01,460 --> 00:50:02,359
going to behave.

1368
00:50:03,539 --> 00:50:05,960
So we're at this point where real world

1369
00:50:06,260 --> 00:50:06,760
practical

1370
00:50:07,175 --> 00:50:09,594
things like computing, like code breaking,

1371
00:50:10,454 --> 00:50:11,914
like detecting signals,

1372
00:50:13,175 --> 00:50:15,574
our ability to do that hinges on our

1373
00:50:15,574 --> 00:50:16,795
ability to understand

1374
00:50:17,255 --> 00:50:19,230
the foundational questions about quantum mechanics.

1375
00:50:19,869 --> 00:50:22,369
And so the scientific goal of the workshop

1376
00:50:22,429 --> 00:50:24,449
is to kind of bring those 2,

1377
00:50:25,869 --> 00:50:27,010
world views together.

1378
00:50:27,550 --> 00:50:28,609
And it's not that

1379
00:50:28,989 --> 00:50:30,989
they aren't already together, but it's sort of

1380
00:50:30,989 --> 00:50:33,284
to enforce that or to underscore that. I

1381
00:50:33,284 --> 00:50:34,965
know. Is is there gonna be stories on

1382
00:50:34,965 --> 00:50:36,985
the island? Is it all gonna be science

1383
00:50:37,045 --> 00:50:38,644
focused, or are you gonna be telling the

1384
00:50:38,644 --> 00:50:39,625
history as well?

1385
00:50:39,925 --> 00:50:42,344
Okay. So there are there's 1 session.

1386
00:50:43,605 --> 00:50:45,579
In fact, the first very first session, the

1387
00:50:45,579 --> 00:50:46,880
kickoff session is

1388
00:50:47,179 --> 00:50:48,800
sort of history oriented.

1389
00:50:50,139 --> 00:50:52,300
So there are 3 folks all with, you

1390
00:50:52,300 --> 00:50:55,179
know, very serious science training and background, but

1391
00:50:55,179 --> 00:50:57,839
who have a substantial interest in the history,

1392
00:50:58,934 --> 00:51:01,035
who are kicking off. 1 is,

1393
00:51:03,015 --> 00:51:04,075
Douglas Stone,

1394
00:51:05,175 --> 00:51:06,394
who is a

1395
00:51:06,855 --> 00:51:09,015
physics PhD and professor of applied physics here

1396
00:51:09,015 --> 00:51:10,934
at Yale University and an expert in laser

1397
00:51:10,934 --> 00:51:12,555
physics and musoscopic electronics,

1398
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:14,260
but also,

1399
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:16,820
has a serious history,

1400
00:51:17,359 --> 00:51:20,079
training. Serious training as a historian and wrote

1401
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:20,739
an amazing

1402
00:51:21,119 --> 00:51:23,940
history of Einstein's work on quantum mechanics,

1403
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:25,605
which will correct

1404
00:51:27,445 --> 00:51:28,344
huge misconceptions.

1405
00:51:29,525 --> 00:51:31,125
So if you were raised as I was

1406
00:51:31,125 --> 00:51:33,284
to believe that, like, Einstein never really understood

1407
00:51:33,284 --> 00:51:35,364
quantum mechanics, didn't like it, it was all

1408
00:51:35,364 --> 00:51:37,065
sort of icky to him,

1409
00:51:37,445 --> 00:51:38,804
and he was kind of a fuddy duddy

1410
00:51:38,804 --> 00:51:41,119
and got it wrong. No. This is completely

1411
00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:44,460
incorrect. In fact, like, what historians, I think,

1412
00:51:44,460 --> 00:51:47,019
knew, but what Doug explains really wonderfully in

1413
00:51:47,019 --> 00:51:48,539
this book, which is called Einstein and the

1414
00:51:48,539 --> 00:51:49,039
Quantum.

1415
00:51:50,460 --> 00:51:51,679
In fact, it's the opposite.

1416
00:51:52,059 --> 00:51:54,944
Einstein figured out almost all of the crazy

1417
00:51:54,944 --> 00:51:58,545
stuff about quantum mechanics before everybody else. He

1418
00:51:58,545 --> 00:52:00,885
understood that randomness was going to be fundamental.

1419
00:52:01,264 --> 00:52:03,924
He understood that entanglement was key,

1420
00:52:04,864 --> 00:52:06,224
you know, a a lot of the things

1421
00:52:06,224 --> 00:52:08,500
that we consider weirdest about quantum mechanics. And

1422
00:52:08,500 --> 00:52:10,420
it's true he didn't like it, but he

1423
00:52:10,420 --> 00:52:11,940
was pointing it out to many of the

1424
00:52:11,940 --> 00:52:12,440
founders.

1425
00:52:13,300 --> 00:52:15,380
He developed maybe 1 reason he doesn't give

1426
00:52:15,380 --> 00:52:17,059
as much credit is that he developed it

1427
00:52:17,059 --> 00:52:18,840
really in the context of thermodynamics

1428
00:52:19,140 --> 00:52:20,599
and statistical mechanics

1429
00:52:20,900 --> 00:52:22,840
rather than an equation of motion.

1430
00:52:24,494 --> 00:52:27,214
But so, anyway, that's that's 1 talk. Another

1431
00:52:27,214 --> 00:52:28,594
talk is by Elise Kroll,

1432
00:52:28,974 --> 00:52:32,114
who's actually in the philosophy department at, NYU.

1433
00:52:33,135 --> 00:52:36,255
But she is an expert in the history

1434
00:52:36,255 --> 00:52:36,994
of the development

1435
00:52:38,260 --> 00:52:40,579
of thoughts about quantum mechanics and particularly about

1436
00:52:40,579 --> 00:52:42,519
the role played by Greta Herman,

1437
00:52:43,299 --> 00:52:44,579
and other folks who,

1438
00:52:45,380 --> 00:52:47,619
sort of realized that some of the initial

1439
00:52:47,619 --> 00:52:48,119
skepticism,

1440
00:52:49,699 --> 00:52:52,585
people like John Von Neumann towards, you know,

1441
00:52:52,885 --> 00:52:55,625
other interpretations of quantum mechanics was maybe,

1442
00:52:57,764 --> 00:52:59,224
not on such firm grounds.

1443
00:53:00,244 --> 00:53:01,545
And then Philip Ball,

1444
00:53:01,844 --> 00:53:02,585
who is

1445
00:53:03,605 --> 00:53:05,764
widely known as a writer of science and

1446
00:53:05,764 --> 00:53:07,409
stuff, but is a physics

1447
00:53:07,949 --> 00:53:08,449
PhD.

1448
00:53:09,630 --> 00:53:11,409
And, yeah, is gonna talk about,

1449
00:53:13,469 --> 00:53:14,449
some of the historical

1450
00:53:15,230 --> 00:53:18,510
context for how Heisenberg and Pauli and folks

1451
00:53:18,510 --> 00:53:20,269
in our community were thinking about things in

1452
00:53:20,269 --> 00:53:22,530
the run up to 1925.

1453
00:53:22,885 --> 00:53:24,885
Amazing. You're making me even more sad that

1454
00:53:24,885 --> 00:53:26,325
I'm not gonna be there now, which is

1455
00:53:26,485 --> 00:53:28,965
Okay. Well Right. But it's gonna be happening

1456
00:53:28,965 --> 00:53:31,045
for everybody who's listening because nobody else can

1457
00:53:31,045 --> 00:53:33,525
go. Right? It's full. It's it it's full.

1458
00:53:33,525 --> 00:53:36,005
It's not you know, people do sometimes cancel,

1459
00:53:36,005 --> 00:53:38,425
and we would love to have it be,

1460
00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:41,069
like, you know, in putting the program together,

1461
00:53:41,069 --> 00:53:42,989
I think the number 1 thing that struck

1462
00:53:42,989 --> 00:53:44,829
us was that, you know, you could fill

1463
00:53:44,829 --> 00:53:46,989
up 2 or 3 or 4 of these

1464
00:53:46,989 --> 00:53:48,050
programs with,

1465
00:53:48,429 --> 00:53:50,289
you know, incredibly high level

1466
00:53:51,144 --> 00:53:53,065
speakers who would be wonderful to hear from.

1467
00:53:53,065 --> 00:53:53,565
And

1468
00:53:53,945 --> 00:53:56,425
it's just it's a it's a shame that

1469
00:53:56,425 --> 00:53:57,485
it has to be

1470
00:53:57,785 --> 00:53:59,485
only five days, and,

1471
00:54:00,265 --> 00:54:02,585
Helgoland is a really small place. It is

1472
00:54:02,585 --> 00:54:04,605
1 or 2 square kilometers.

1473
00:54:05,465 --> 00:54:07,619
They have a tight cap. There is a

1474
00:54:07,619 --> 00:54:10,099
little conference center there, but it has a

1475
00:54:10,099 --> 00:54:11,779
very tight cap on how many people can

1476
00:54:11,779 --> 00:54:12,599
come. So,

1477
00:54:13,619 --> 00:54:16,260
it's possible we'll have cancellations and the odd

1478
00:54:16,260 --> 00:54:18,260
slot will open up, but, yeah, it's pretty

1479
00:54:18,260 --> 00:54:19,079
much full.

1480
00:54:19,380 --> 00:54:20,279
Okay. Well,

1481
00:54:20,819 --> 00:54:22,484
better people than me should have their slots.

1482
00:54:22,484 --> 00:54:24,344
A lot of people than me are listening.

1483
00:54:24,484 --> 00:54:26,005
There should be a very wide range of

1484
00:54:26,005 --> 00:54:27,684
people. Like, the hope is that there are

1485
00:54:27,684 --> 00:54:30,484
surprises and connections that nobody would have would

1486
00:54:30,484 --> 00:54:31,684
have put to watch. So Oh, it's a

1487
00:54:31,684 --> 00:54:33,444
lovely thing. I I presumably, you've not been

1488
00:54:33,444 --> 00:54:35,125
there. I know you like islands, but you've

1489
00:54:35,125 --> 00:54:36,184
not been there before.

1490
00:54:36,565 --> 00:54:38,719
I'm planning to make a an an advanced

1491
00:54:39,820 --> 00:54:40,920
reconnoitering trip,

1492
00:54:41,260 --> 00:54:43,019
this spring, but it's true. I had not

1493
00:54:43,019 --> 00:54:43,840
yet been there.

1494
00:54:44,780 --> 00:54:45,280
My

1495
00:54:46,059 --> 00:54:47,820
it's a little weird to just schedule a

1496
00:54:47,820 --> 00:54:50,300
random trip to a desolate island in the

1497
00:54:50,300 --> 00:54:52,065
middle of the off season,

1498
00:54:53,005 --> 00:54:54,144
but it felt too

1499
00:54:54,525 --> 00:54:56,765
uncomfortable to organize a conference in a place

1500
00:54:56,765 --> 00:54:58,844
that I couldn't even really picture. So, yeah,

1501
00:54:58,844 --> 00:55:00,364
I'll make a I'll make a quick trip.

1502
00:55:00,364 --> 00:55:02,704
And, indeed, as you say, it will satisfy

1503
00:55:02,844 --> 00:55:03,425
a certain

1504
00:55:04,099 --> 00:55:07,300
curiosity about remote pilots. It's been wonderful working

1505
00:55:07,300 --> 00:55:07,800
with,

1506
00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:10,840
the 4 you know, having 4 co organizers.

1507
00:55:10,900 --> 00:55:12,900
That's been really wonderful to work with. It's

1508
00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:15,079
been really wonderful to have the support staff,

1509
00:55:16,099 --> 00:55:18,605
that have helped org you know, put things

1510
00:55:18,605 --> 00:55:19,105
together.

1511
00:55:19,484 --> 00:55:23,244
Katharina Kissner at Erlangen and Florian Carla here

1512
00:55:23,244 --> 00:55:23,984
at Yale.

1513
00:55:25,085 --> 00:55:27,324
And now I'm just looking forward to seeing

1514
00:55:27,324 --> 00:55:29,025
this place and meeting these people.

1515
00:55:29,965 --> 00:55:32,140
And, you know, I hope that people have

1516
00:55:32,140 --> 00:55:35,079
a good time and good conversations and ideas,

1517
00:55:35,299 --> 00:55:35,880
you know,

1518
00:55:36,739 --> 00:55:37,639
are are born.

1519
00:55:38,099 --> 00:55:40,260
That would be the best possible outcome. Yeah.

1520
00:55:40,260 --> 00:55:41,940
I wonder what if you if because you've

1521
00:55:41,940 --> 00:55:43,719
mentioned a few books and things, and

1522
00:55:44,224 --> 00:55:46,385
obviously, you've devoured quite a few on this

1523
00:55:46,385 --> 00:55:48,465
on this topic. Is there, are there any

1524
00:55:48,465 --> 00:55:50,644
that you recommend particularly to our listeners?

1525
00:55:51,664 --> 00:55:53,525
Sure. I mean, at the risk of betraying

1526
00:55:53,585 --> 00:55:56,164
my, prejudice and ignorance in an experience,

1527
00:55:56,625 --> 00:55:57,664
I would say I really

1528
00:55:58,500 --> 00:56:00,820
some books that I really loved were Philip

1529
00:56:00,820 --> 00:56:02,360
Ball's Beyond Weird.

1530
00:56:04,420 --> 00:56:05,719
A little bit more technical,

1531
00:56:06,579 --> 00:56:09,219
but not super technical by any means is,

1532
00:56:09,539 --> 00:56:11,014
Jeffrey Boob's banana

1533
00:56:11,474 --> 00:56:11,974
world,

1534
00:56:12,835 --> 00:56:13,815
Nicholas Gisan's

1535
00:56:14,114 --> 00:56:15,094
quantum chance.

1536
00:56:17,635 --> 00:56:19,474
It's older, but I will say as a

1537
00:56:19,474 --> 00:56:20,454
high school student,

1538
00:56:20,835 --> 00:56:23,714
maybe nothing inspired me as much as Roger

1539
00:56:23,714 --> 00:56:24,214
Penrose's

1540
00:56:24,755 --> 00:56:26,449
emperor's new mind. I

1541
00:56:27,789 --> 00:56:29,089
think if you're interested

1542
00:56:29,550 --> 00:56:30,050
in,

1543
00:56:32,030 --> 00:56:34,609
sort of, you know, quantum mechanics is mysterious

1544
00:56:35,070 --> 00:56:37,150
and so is the origin of universe and

1545
00:56:37,150 --> 00:56:39,065
the structure of matter. And at some level,

1546
00:56:39,065 --> 00:56:40,824
they all tie together. And in those bigger

1547
00:56:40,824 --> 00:56:43,244
pictures, I think Lisa Randall's books,

1548
00:56:43,625 --> 00:56:44,204
I think,

1549
00:56:44,904 --> 00:56:47,164
Brian Green's books, Neil deGrasse Tyson's,

1550
00:56:48,424 --> 00:56:50,585
those have all, I think, inspired people who

1551
00:56:50,585 --> 00:56:51,085
have,

1552
00:56:51,385 --> 00:56:54,130
you know, curiosity, but not, like, deep formal

1553
00:56:54,130 --> 00:56:56,289
training. I would also recommend that you head

1554
00:56:56,289 --> 00:56:57,809
on over to physicsworld.com

1555
00:56:57,809 --> 00:57:00,289
where you can find Robert Kreece's article, Return

1556
00:57:00,289 --> 00:57:00,949
to Helgoland,

1557
00:57:01,250 --> 00:57:04,449
celebrating one hundred years of quantum mechanics. And

1558
00:57:04,449 --> 00:57:06,530
since you're clearly a fan of podcasts about

1559
00:57:06,530 --> 00:57:07,030
physics,

1560
00:57:07,409 --> 00:57:09,675
I would recommend that you also head over

1561
00:57:09,675 --> 00:57:12,315
to the Physics World weekly podcast, which begins

1562
00:57:12,315 --> 00:57:14,735
the International Year of Quantum Science and Technology

1563
00:57:15,114 --> 00:57:17,934
by looking at quantum networks and sensors.

1564
00:57:18,315 --> 00:57:21,114
That along with plenty more coverage of the

1565
00:57:21,114 --> 00:57:24,210
twenty twenty five international year of quantum science

1566
00:57:24,210 --> 00:57:24,789
and technology

1567
00:57:25,090 --> 00:57:27,010
on physicsworld.com.

1568
00:57:27,010 --> 00:57:28,929
I'd like to thank Jack Harris, Natalie de

1569
00:57:28,929 --> 00:57:31,090
Leon, and Anna Maria Ray for talking to

1570
00:57:31,090 --> 00:57:32,690
me for this episode of the Physics World

1571
00:57:32,690 --> 00:57:33,590
Stories podcast.

1572
00:57:34,072 --> 00:57:36,312
And we'll be back next month when we'll

1573
00:57:36,312 --> 00:57:36,972
be looking

1574
00:57:37,352 --> 00:57:38,732
at Pele's tears,

1575
00:57:39,032 --> 00:57:41,052
and thank you very much for listening.