Trades We’d Like to see; Russell Wilson Talk with Michael-Shawn Dugar

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Speaker 1: Be Around the NFL podcast The reason your wife is pissed and why you're sleeping on the couch. We'll take that that hits close to home, but um, it's I don't know where who wrote that. That's how you want to spin it to help you get through some tough domestic times. Put that on our shoulders. From the Chris Westling podcast studio, What's Around the NFL. Dan Hands is here, Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal. It doesn't sleep on the couch from what we know, I sleep in the bed. That's true. I mean, it's just going to turn into another now. I often do sleep on the couch because I don't go to bed at like ten oh eight pm. So then if I enter that room open the door, then I've often been blamed that I haven't waking up the other individus of the repertoire. It's pretty rare them out late. But if she's already a sleep and stuff and I'm coming home late scenario. But that's sometimes that's when people say I'm sleeping on the couch. It's because there's some maritable strife, right, I'm not. I'm not saying shiny boys like I know want to wake her up. It's like, no, we're talking about people are sleeping on the couch because the wife didn't out late and there's like I can't wake her up. Better sleep on the couch. And that's why I would say that Greg and I have packaged in a certain way. There could be other things. I mean, you're you have an addiction. You have an addiction to the Around the NFL podcast. It's breaking up your marriage priorities. I think you've made the right choice addiction. I think it's something that you know, you've all, you've long deserved. All Right, here we go, let's get into it. It's our third show in as many days, because that's how we grind because the new league year is closing in the legal tampering period ahead of the dawn of the new league year is what eighty four hours away, I don't know, something like that. Monday at noon Eastern that begins, and that's when teams are agents and teams can start to talk about doing business, and then Wednesday is when contracts can be finalized. The trades that we've seen this week, like Russell Wilson to the Broncos, Carson Wentz to the As Mark says, commanders. Uh, that becomes official on Wednesday, and uh, we are going to have some fun today because we will get into some moves we'd like to see once that legal tampering period opens up on Monday, or even before that. As the reports continue to roll in, hopefully maybe there's one more big bombshell that drops this week before we get to the big week next do it? Why not go for it? Um? Also, we have a guest coming in or not coming in but via not satellite, but like the equivalent of someone being via satellite in Skype. I mean the probably our satellites involved in some degree I don't know to what degree really Okay, Well, Sean, possibly totally not Sean. Michael Dugar who covers the Seahawks for the Athletic and does a damn well. Uh, he just wrote a banger about everything that led to the divorce of the Seahawks and Russell Wilson. So good timing to have him on the program and see where Seattle is and get a little more, learn a little more about the Russell Wilson dynamic with Pete Carroll, which certainly soured it sounds like greggy as the years went along. I love this stories like the one that he wrote, which was kind of like a dump of all the information that he had in his back pocket over the last few years of what was going on. And you know that the Pete Carroll Russell Wilson like power Dynamic is at my alley. He nailed well. We and we are fans of the Athletic. They do really great work and have a lot of great reporters over there, and I think one of the things they're famous for is when the big story drops the next any four to seventy two hours, you're gonna get the post mortem. Here's what was going on before that huge news, and yeah, talk to him about it. It's like, hey, we don't want to burn that that source while Russell Wilson's on the team, Oh he's leaving, all right, let's just put a note book dump. Yes, and we'll get caught up on some news. Things slowed down in the last twenty four hours, which is okay because we had so much to digest over Tuesday and Wednesday. But we will get you caught up there. But let's start there. Let's start with things we'd like to see happen. Boys, I mean, this is the off season. There really is no off season in the NFL anymore. But things will quiet down a little bit in the focus will shift back to the draft in about a week to ten days. But from basically this week through next Thursday or so, it's gonna be a lot of fun and a lot of interesting. Uh, We're gonna learn a lot about all these teams. So let's let's share some moves we'd like to see. Greg, Why don't you get us going. I'm just gonna go with like a regular old free agent signing to start as I, you know, more obviously embraced my Chargers fandom. Let's just put Gronk on that team. I think Gronks got a lot to offer. Mark showing me his highlighted I think that's what I actually was. One of my top four was Rob Gronkowski to the Chargers they need a tight end. This is well done, Greg, I just make so much. He's still still a top five or six tight end. It's one of the most surprising things to me in the current NFL that he was playing as well. I just want to know that how Mark was gonna get The other names just kind of like little notes under his Rob Gronkowski to the Chargers. He wrote three names, Train McKitty, Gabe Neibers, and Hunter camp Mowyer. I thought those last two names were made up, But is that there is under contract um cadre of tight end. So I think the McKitty, I knew that sounds like a made up name, But m McKitty, I like kind of like he's gonna have a market now. It might not happen in the next week or so. That's the way a thing with Gronk. He might kind of just be like, I don't really want to sign until July because I don't want to play in training camp. I don't want to deal with the offseason. So he could be someone that's sitting out there. But I think he could help a lot of teams. Buffalo is another team that supposedly is interested in Gronk. Bengals, maybe he. I mean, Gronk has earned his position, which is you're not going to see Rob Gronkowski signed with the Falcons. You're not gonna see him signed with the Texans. He will sign if if he does want to continue playing it certainly seems like he does, it will be with a contender. Um sure, maybe the Rams will make room for him, you know, you know how these things work. But the Chargers to me, yes, and and we are Herbert Files in this studio. So the idea of giving him another red zone target, I like that one. I like that one. That's good. It's trying to start with like a nice meat and potato get too crazy. It's fun. How about you, Marky I I have a jets one for you later. But I want to talk about the other New York team because I am I. I kind of hate when people say this, like league is better when Team X is good. But I do feel that way about the Giants because that was, like, you know, Dan and I grew up in Giants territory and they've kind of just been this fizzled out mess for so long. And am I really supposed to think that if you're the Giants, that Brian Dable is going to make something out of Daniel Jones? Um? Possibly, I'm not into it. I want to see something much bigger happen here. And we already are about to talk about QB divorces with Team I see that coming. Uh under. The next Melo drama that we could put an end to real quick is Kyler Murray and the Cardinals. I know that matter what happens here, I would love to see the Giants find a way to rest Kyler Murray away from Arizona, get him into New York Giants Red White, and Blue, and have Brian Dable send Daniel Jones back to Arizona. Check your latter Cardinals. The Giants are back in the map right now. Well, there have to be things I want to see, but I don't. Here's why I don't like. I like your whole vibe. Okay, I like your idea of making New York football cheer elevant again. I love your Hawaiian shirt. Reminds me of an old boss we used to have. But not that's not a good memory. But maybe you're you're taking uh, Charles Manson stole this from the Beatles, we're stealing it back. You're doing the Bano thing, but with Hawaiian shirts. Okay, Well, at least like part of my presentation, you you find you find appealing to Kyler Murray. Kyler Murray going to the New York media market, No, I don't like that at all. He put the Cardinals back on his Instagram. Oh that's great, that that I saw that and I went with us. Anyways, I think that he I think that was probably another world of psychological I think warfare. I think Kyler Murray obviously is tremendously talented and I and I'm my record, I'm on the record that I have I have some misgivings about him after last season, before any of the drama thank you Paul Rudd around Kyler Murray started to surface. So yes, I'm a little on guard about him. But at the same time, is he an upgrade over Daniel Jones. Absolutely, But I've heard enough about him in the reports. There's enough smoke here for me to wonder, like, how would that guy handle a market like New York And not saying that would be the reason not to do it, but that's what my initial thought was, Oh, how would that go? Counterpoint, what if Daniel Jones and where we haven't learned this, it's not been confirmed yet behind the scenes as a huge a hole. Well, I don't think that did go to Duke Um. No, I'll say this that Daniel Jones, You're probably right that we shouldn't get too invested in the idea of Brian Dable fixing Daniel Jones and making it a Josh Allen two point oh. But man, I wouldn't mind seeing one year. I think the giant that's where the giants like Daniel Jones better than people think I I would love to see Kyler Murray moved just for the entertainment of it all. And I'm not sure if Kingsbury is the guy to do it. I just can't imagine them making a deal without more of a sure thing coming back. Now. I don't know who that would be, you know, in general, what I'd like to see as more of these quarterbacks go Baker yuh, Derek Carr could be one, Matt Ryan like one of those that are maybe a little more established. I could imagine Arizona doing a deal where they also get some picks and an established guy. I don't know if Daniel Jones is that guy, but that would be fun. Alright. One well, I do actually have some reporting on the personality of Daniel Jones, and I'm gonna I'm gonna leave This came from an anonymous source very well that Daniel Jones um was standoffish to this individual on the red carpet at NFL on honors. Erica tells more about buried me. Jones, um right, justin can back me up? Was um? Not even standoffish was the word I spot, though he might have already done some other interviews. She said Mac Jones wasn't nice to you either. Jones was great. No, the Patriots guy was just like three questions, Max, three questions. Don't ask him anything right at all? So are you you're saying that Daniel Jones wasn't necessarily rude. It's just I know he was rude. She started connecting the Dots guy, he was proud me in the crowd the other night, crying. Uh. That was one of my favorite twenty minutes in sports television. That happened to be home, Just this awkward building, all miserable and crying, waiting for Schefski to come back out because they were supposed to be a celebration, and then he comes back out and scolds them. I've never seen like if you don't like Duke. That was the greatest, like thirty minutes. That reminds me of a few years back when the Raiders abandoned the Bay Areas very so we sent Mark Cesler up there to cover the big game, and the Raiders got robbed by the officials, and what should have been a win and a happy moment turned into this mystifying loss that shouldn't have happened. The Sessler's boots on the ground take us through it. Mark, Alright, well, no, you know what, here's the one thing that happened after that game. There was hints and suggestions that it was going to turn into like a looting affair, where like stuff was being thrown and that's why you flew up there. Well, I mean that was I didn't Had they won, it wouldn't have been that way. But then like they it turned actually they went, they got calm enough, and then it quieted down, turning into not such a news story. So I don't know why I'm recapping it now here. I know we're well off track here, but I just want to circle back to the whole Resting Greg Face things, because at the first night of the combine there was like a whole conversation about it. Kyleeen was like, oh yeah, first ten times I was on the podcast Resting Greg Face going, and my thing is, I guess you guys all knew about this, but it took Gonzo to actually introduce the concept of Resting Greg Faces four Mar twelve nine is an American sports writer. Was married NFL media broadcaster Colleen wolf John, who as resides in Los Angeles with his wife and two dogs. And I just want to know, like what other you know, possible talking could be going on, Like if Gonzo had just introduced it. I wish someone had told me about it before before I thought we've I think you're badly misremembering well, you know, some of your social activities. But I I branded it. I coined resting Greg Face on this podcast. I believe during the beginning of the pandemic, when we were doing this, it was it was much more severe when we were You're on your you're in your own home, staring at our faces, and the lower right quadrant it's Greg's face. He just looks displeased and annoyed all the time most of the time. Give me my one shot of like doing a podcast with Greg when it's a computer. Make a point about Kyler Murray and the Giant. I think Kyler Murray would be a great fit for the Giants. That's my own personal idea. Horrified. Yeah, it's just hey, by the way, um, Kyler Murray, I did I I noted this. I have my article up in NFL dot com. Best case, worst case, most likely scenario for NFL QBS Murray is the only one that I couldn't even like make an educated guess about. Best cases. He gets a huge contract extension and vaporizes all these ugly headlines of less month or so. Worst case is that the contract talks never get off the ground. There's ugly social media stuff. The agent drops another manifesto and he holds out that's worst case. What is the likely scenario? Do we have enough a knowledge of the situation to even throw it out there? Because I didn't, because like we don't know really where the story stands right now, I'm gonna throw I think that the most likely scenario is that it becomes an offseason talking point and he stays away from the Cardinals and that they don't trade him because they don't want to give him the new contract, and it just becomes something that we're talking about through August the Russell Wilson, Yeah, he gets moved next you know Rogers last year, that sort of thing. Because I I can't imagine them making it. I'm gonna throw just one out here because it's similar, so we we always have to have a cantankerous star quarterback. I just think that's the most likely because I can't quite imagine a trade. But I thought that statement that they made made it very clear he's not going to show up to work unless he gets a contract, and the reports that are out there, I can't kind of can't imagine giving them a market value contract. But I'm gonna throw out a different QB swap I think is a little more likely. How about Derek Carr and Baker Mayfield. That would be fun. It actually makes a little bit of sense here because Josh McDaniels was one of the Patriots guys who love Baker Mayfield and the build up they supposedly wanted to move up to take him number one. Overall, I think Cleveland would be interested in that. I know that they in theory like Derek Carr. They're gonna pay him forty five million dollars. Josh McDaniels maybe, but I just like that a swap that would be fun. Mix up two franchises were about to you know, that'll be kind of in the middle of the A f McDaniels point is, can that helps me convinced that the Raiders might have some interesting I don't think. I mean, I don't think Mark Davis seems like a Derek Carr guy. We keep saying that, but Derek Carr has been on the team now for anything like people like athletics. First it was Jon Gruden, and now that John Gruden got swept out, and now we're going to shift it over to it Now the owner doesn't like it. Well, he there's no rush to extend. I understand that. I I get that, and maybe maybe that happens this year. Maybe he doesn't that. Do I see Derek Carr an upgrade over Baker? I don't know. It's As a Browns fan, I'd have a tough time getting excited about. Is he going to get you over the hump? No, He's going to do the same thing that he's done. His contract situation is interesting too, because I just think he could make it uncomfortable for them and not show up to work this offseason too. Let's see Derek Carr would do that. I think it's possible. He's like a car. He's set to me about two millions made a minute flashpoint. Derek Carr. I mean he's do nineteen point seven million dollars this year, about three millions. That's pretty good deal. And Carson wentz and about the next it's what you do with friend, it's the next contract. But Dan, to your point with flash points, if that were to happen, we do you just put it on the calendar that he becomes the center of NFL gossip and news about a fortnight from now. That's how that's your he's worth as we mentioned yesterday, Yes, and just really saves it. The timing, you know, it's March. I think you're starting to see what it's about. It always in the news sector. Um, all right, Oh, just to give you a little perspective if you're so, if Derek Carr scheduled to make about nineteen million, that's basically what Sam Donald's getting in the final year of his rookie deal. That's what the Panthers are locked in on Sam Donald. So Derek Carr, I know, he's a Pro Bowl alternate. I think he played in the game. But he is a top like thirteen quarterback I think, And they made some in his people have made some whispers about that that that now is the time to address that this is the year it's a new it's a new regime. So it's like either you're with me or you're not. And if ever there was a time to leave, now would be the time. It's a new all right, I'm gonna throw out another quarterback. I just think nobody wants to talk about this, and I think it's because I guess financially, it just doesn't make any sense. But I'm not willing to give up the ghost of Matt Ryan getting a fresh start somewhere. We saw what happened with Matthew Stafford getting out of Dodge and winning a Super Bowl with the Rams. Now, I think Matthew Stafford's skills relative to his peak are pretty close right now. I wouldn't say that about Matt Ryan, who is an m v P in two thousand and sixteen and has fallen off a little bit. But still I think Ryan, I really I would be a little bumm for a guy who's gonna end his career as you know, a top ten twelve quarterback of his generation and m v P is gonna be right near the top of the list and all the major passing all time marks by the end of his career. Like he's just gonna play out the string here with with the Falcons and and get old with the Falcons. How about we find a way to make it work, and I'll and I'll and I'll throw a team out there that has a butt ton of salary cap space and a glaring needed quarterback as of twenty four hours ago. How about the Colts. People want to say, Jimmy g get him to Indy, he'll be an upgrade. I don't buy that. I think that basically Jimmy g and Wentz at the same level as a quarterback Matt Ryan revitalized on a new team with better supporting cast. I think that could be a guy that takes you, maybe even a little higher than where Philip Rivers was a couple of years ago, a guy that might have another year or two in the tank to give you something big. It is on brand for this regime of the Cults to go get a veteran quarterback um who we like, but who had his best season about three or four years prior. Um that said, I think this would heal some wounds for the Cults if they could pull that off. And I mean it still would leave the Falcons with a huge As you said, a butt ton Is that the word you used? A butt ton of dead money? Um, but the Cults have money to spend right now. Ryan has this forty six million dollar cap at the highest in the history of the bad job with their accounting. That was I was that I was on that beat all last offseason. It was it was a big ol horociously, but it was just that you brought it up roughly thirty seven times. Well, that's what you do when you're on a I think there's an argument that they have the worst roster in the entire NFL, definitely, if not if Matt Ryan wasn't on it. If you look at their position, their depth chart, they're too deep, like they've got like five or six players. And I don't know if Ryan would do enough for the Colts. To me, he would at best be where what Philip Rivers was because he just doesn't have the arm strength anymore. He's still a good process or good decision maker. But he's kind of like Alex Smith. Late in Alex Smith's career, you know, the good version of Alt, like the thirties, He's he's getting up there, like not everyone's gonna be Tom Brady and age like Tom Brady. He's he's thirty six years old, so he's kind of a caretaker. But we watched in London in October. Now I know against Jets defense, but he if something watching him in that game. He if you can protect him, he was weirdly predictable last season. If you could protect him, he was like a borderline top ten quarterback and then the other games it was like useless but not to make any plays on his own. He doesn't have a big arm, but if you can protect him, he's good. Cults off offensive line is not what it was even a year ago. At this point, they're missing people to make it work. You need to fortify that unit as well. That's we're saying about. Uh, you know Carson Wentza last season, great offensive line. Just hand the ball off all day long, make eight throws a game. Where is he? What's your Jets move? All right? I have I have one um that I truly think would help the Jets um from the culture, Robert Sala defensive. I know where you're going. I like it. Honey Badgery. Everyone wants Honey Badger. Everybody. Well, of course you want him because I think that he's the kind of person that could give the Jets legitimate attitude. I'll start there, but this one I kind of want to just see happen because are there are whispers that Cleveland is not going to bring this player back. Jadeveon Clowney to the JEFF simply to observe Dan take a massive, hard right turn from the half decade of jabbing and needling from Dan towards Clowney. If the JEFF want to pay big money to uh watch another guy get injured, yeah, bring in jo Davian Clowney. That's fun your South last seas. I don't know if he fits that defense exactly what they're they're looking for. Honey Badger. There's some buzz about him to the Ravens, which I think would be a fun and typical and make sense great move. I would love to see him on the Patriots. Just have a bunch of different safeties that can do a lot of different things. Adrian Phillips, Kyle Dugger, Like, you don't have any cornerbacks. While I'm talking Patriots secondary, I'll just throw out, like, hey, how about we just how about they just replace J. C. Jackson, Carlton Davis. Carlton Davis to me could top Harold Landry's fifty two million guaranteed. It kind of fell under the raider that Landry got fifty two million guaranteed. That is like in the Aaron Donald Rain. I mean that isn't like super I think these contracts are gonna be wild. And Carlton Davis, if we were doing the old Sandwich thing where we would pick who gets the most guaranteed money, I think he's got a shot at it. And I want Jacy Jackson for that matter, one of the two. Why why shrug off che C Jackson, who you already know fits the system has already been better than Carlton Davis. I would like that even more that I just doesn't seem like someone else, someone else, And Robert Slid desperately needs a dog, and his secondary j C. Jackson makes more. And I just wonder if they're gun shy because the Jets have the two biggest cornerback misses in the free agent market over the last five years with Tremaine Johnson and Durell Reeves. Would they want to give massive money to a guy that Belichick said we'll let him walk, but he's a ball hawk. He's exactly what New York needs in their secondary um and the Jets obviously have as much cap space as just about any take out because Joe Douglas. You look at ten years and when guys are gonna get fired, and sometimes that's when you find who's gonna spend Chris Ballard think he's on the hot seat this season ton of cap space. I think he's gonna spend. Joe Douglas. I think he's on the hot seat this season. Think he's gonna spend ton of cap space because those guys that might not get another offseason if it doesn't go well. How to get Jets fans excited? Signed j C. Jack into a billion dollar contract and then draft Kyle Hamilton's and you completely remake that secondary, and Robert Sala gets Carl Lawson back with Quinn and Williams and we start to go to work. Uh, sick of the whole Jets Patriots sharing players were a little Jets heavy here, But I truly believe Alan Robinson would be perfect for them. I just think, well, if they have a quarterback of yeah, but Zack, to me, that is a quarterback. You want a wide receiver you want to add with Zack Wilson. You're gonna have to lean into his strengths, which is throwing the ball vertically to the outside down the field. He can do that, you know, I think that's gonna be And it's Allen. Allen Robinson is the only guy out there like that. I think that's a nice Robinson. You don't have a quarterback because everywhere he's played, they that quarterback has completely sure. But like that is a great one to three Corey Davis as a two and more as a three, and those three players to me, complement each other very well. What the missing piece they have is kind of the burn here on the outside. And yeah, we don't know Zach Wilson can play. Was a very up and down, mostly down rookie year. But if you use a number two overall pick on a quarterback, you're gonna have to invest and see if he could play with some top tier talent. I'd love to see that. Um, Alright, anybody else have another one? I would like to just see this happen because it would, um add a little more salt under the wound of the Seahawks. Speaking of our next guest, Bobby Wagner to the Rams, Yeah, just go spend the money, go do it. Add this guy who basically just as another tipping point figure in a defense that wants to get back to this. I wonder if that'd just be out of spite. Well, I guess they know how great Bobby Wagner is because I've seen this band need About here. Steve Weish kind of hinted at it, and it feels like a RAMS move, doesn't it. It does, but they also never pay for that position. They don't have a lot of space, um so that it would be fun though. One last one is how about those a f C champions Cincinnati Bengals. You guys said it wasn't sexy enough for TV, but I think it is Laramie Tunsil to the Bengals. He's on of Texans right now and he's kind of an under the radar trade candidate. I expect him to be traded in the next two weeks. I think the Texans they have some of the issues that maybe Miami did with with him, but they already paid the guaranteed money out Houston that is, and I think if you're taking on Tunsil, I think Cincinnati take a shot with him. I'd rather do that than you know, signing Brandon Schurff, which I've heard as a possibility in Cincinnati, like a breaking down guard. And now, how about give me the the upside of Laramie Tunseil, give up whatever he would cost. I don't know they, I mean hopefully not. First right side was an epic disaster. Surf if healthy is a good player, but his durability has been an issue. You got Eric Fisher in the show yesterday, you got Laramie Tunsel into that. I mean, you're acting like Laramie Tunsil is an he like he entered the game as a potential number one overall drect draft pick who fell partly because he used a bomb, Like, hey, everyone knows him there, and then he got traded for like three first round picks to from Miami to Houston. People know Laramie ton So it wasn't just that also included Bill O'Brien, and it was it wasn't also just an anecdote, you know, it was an awesome from his past, and it was just an outrageous bong. In hindsight, though, I think it was just like the bong made him look like a guy from like Mad Max or something. It's all legal now, so you shouldn't have knocked him down the board. It's all right. You can understand. I'm not saying I'm not making passing any judgment on people that use that recreationally. I'm just saying maybe on draft night, for that video to surface, you know, it might have given teams pause. And I understand that. All right, good talk, They're good, Ton sol gas Mask, bong talk. Let's take a break and then bring in our guest, Michael Sean Dugar. Welcome back to Around the NFL Guitar. Our next guest is a repeat guest because we like him because he gets it. He covers the Seahawks for the Athletic. He just wrote a banger about the disillusion of the marriage between Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson, and now we welcome him on to talk about that situation. Ladies and gentlemen. Michael Seawan Dugar, what's up, buddy? What up? What up? How are you guys doing? Doing good? But so we you were on the show for the first time last year. It was probably around this time or maybe in the spring, and we talked about Russell Wilson and the Seahawks and what's gonna happen, and how it felt like a pivotal year was going to be for this marriage, and it almost felt I remember at the time I was talking about they need to have a nice year for this thing to get calmed down. They didn't have a nice year and things didn't get calmed down. And now Russell Wilson is on the Broncos. So let's start there. Michael Sean, Is this a marriage that could have been saved if they just were able to get things on track in or was was this a divorce that was gonna happen anything short of say, a deep playoff run. Yeah, it needed to be a deep playoff run. I think they needed to probably get to the NFC title game. Obviously getting to the super Bowl would have been great. I mean, I just think that they had there. There was no middle ground, really, and I think I probably talked about it last time I was done here too. Like when you have a guy who named his book Win for Forever as Pete Brow, and you guys have another guy who names his son Win, you know, I'd be Russell Wilson, Like, you really don't have any room to do any losing if you guys can't agree on stuff. So I always thought that, Um, if Russell Wilson didn't see a direct path to a championship, at least following one season. Like I said, if they lose close in the NFC title game, that means you're right there, right But other anything short of that, you could just tell it like they have the same goal, which is to win, but they just can't agree. They being rust Pete, maybe even John Schneider, they just could not agree on not only just how to get there, but what happens when you encounter obstacles. And I think that that last part is really important. Every team encounters them. But if you're not on the same path and had a problem solve, you'll really have problems. I feel like your average Seahawks fan can read your incredible right up on on what happened here and contemplate, yes, the the split was coming, Um, this was sort of inevitable. But you also on your podcast Seahawks Man to Man Um talked about the word hubris on the part of the Seahawks organization people inside of it. Can you just kind of unpack like what they're thinking was because it sounds like they maybe seem a little too overconfident that they can overcome the rare move of trading away a franchise quarterback. Yeah, and that's that's the word hubris is that was used to me, I think twice in conversations with people after the raide, just kind of talking about why Seattle would do it. Now, obviously Pete Carroll and John Snader aren't gonna get up there and say, yeah, no, we just think we can draft another Russell Wilson. But remember this is the team that was reportedly going to draft Patrick Mahomes in seventeen, the team that reportedly called the Browns, or at least talk to the Browns. I don't know who called who ahead of the team draft to potentially trade for the number one overall pick that year, believe to then have been used on Josh Allen if the if the Seahawks had it, which would have been a good move clearly, um, But like those moves just signal that this team, maybe it's just John, maybe it's Pete, maybe it's John, A couple of personnel guys believe, hey man, you can give us enough draft picks. We can rebuild this thing once we built it. Once we can we can build it again? And I don't even necessarily fault them for thinking that because in the league where the average like lifespan quote unquote of a player is about three years and some change, you can't just count on having guys forever. You know, it just takes one knee injury or something. You know that this is a team that lost the draft pick because he broke his face on an a TV. I'd be Malik McDowell before he even got to training camp, as you kind of have to view these guys as as indisposable. I think Darius Slay of the Eagles tweeted, I think last night or a couple of days ago, that teams just think all Pro and Pro Bowl players grow on trees. And he's not wrong. They do think that, you know, because they're the ones who draft and acquire those All Pro and Pro Bowl players. They think they can do it again. That's not to say that Seattle immediately thinks they can find a quarterback better than Russell Wilson, but clearly by agreeing to trade him, they must think we can at least get by without Russell Wilson, right, And I think they've they've thought they can draft that well because they started off historically great, but it really hasn't been that way on defense for a while. I loved the idea that you're kind of putting out there that's like, I don't believe that Pete Carroll is going to rebuild. I think they're gonna spend what they can in cap space. I think they're gonna be aggressive. They're gonna use these draft picks, and they're gonna try to contend this year to prove everyone wrong. It's gonna be tough, but I'm just like interested in going back a few years because the way that you painted how close they were, how Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson were very much on the same page, and and they had almost certain sort of rules for Russell Wilson not to criticize him, uh too publicly, and how in the end there was a lot of criticism uh from Russell Wilson's camp of Pete Carroll privately and how they were burying his boss, but that Russell Wilson was always trying to have like this plausible deniability of like, well, I didn't ask for a trade. I just said here's where I would want to be traded if I was gonna get traded, Like, how did that play within the organization with his teammates and how how like wouldn't that be annoying to be working with this dude for the last five years while he's kind of buring you privately, and like, how did that work with his teammates? I'm really curious. Well, as long as you're winnings, not too bad, right, And and I think I do have to give some credit to my coworkers Jason Jenks and Mike Sando. We kind of triple byline that story and that sex, and you're highlighting they're kind of the background with Rust and Pete. That was a lot of them more than it was me. We all worked on a story together, but that particular section they did a lot of heavy lifting. So I gotta give them a major shout out. But yeah, Russ is a polarizing figure in Seattle for some of the reasons you mentioned. Um, I mean, even look at this last season, right, This last season is a really good example. And I have to write a story I think at some point about his legacy and I'll include you know, this kind of like anecdotal evidence. They're like Russ broke his finger. That sucked, right, No one wanted him to break his finger, right. But then then the doctor tells you you have six to eight months sixty eight weeks. Excuse me that you gotta sit out because your finger is broken. Russ, here's that and goes, well, I could do it in three to four. Well, no, that's not how diagnosis usually works. Brother. So you got the guy, you know, seemingly and this is not anything a player told me or coach told me specifically, but like he got the guy seemingly still making it about him, and on Sunday Night football, he's still like doing the routine even though he's on I r uh, you know, like stuff like that. A lot of the surgery he's putting the instagram of the recovery, like, yeah, he was setting it all up right, you know. It's it almost became like a Russell Wilson production, which is not Again that's normal, but when you're winning, it's easier to just buy it's kind of just you know, par for the course. But then when you rush back, you know against the Green Bay Packers, you know, at two weeks after the team put up a thirty ball obviously against the Jaguars. But you know, and Geno Smith first win and then you get shut out, you know, by Green Bay. You know, that stuff doesn't sit well. You know if I think, like two weeks later in Washington, he threw an interception, you know, on the two point conversion the last play of the game, and Wenday Night Football, they lost that game. And not to say everything was was Russ's fault necessarily that teammates don't like, don't just hated the guy, hated his guts. But you know, it's just easy, easy to excuse stuff that, yeah, you could dismiss it like annoying or cheesy or whatever, when it's not followed by greatness, like his work ethic will never be questioned. Its talent will never be questioned. But it's like, hey, man, if you kick in a certain way, we need you to be here and be great, you know. And I think that that that made him like a polarizing figure behind the scene. You know what's interesting too, is that one thing that didn't quite check out to me, And maybe you could offer some insight on this. There At one point in the piece in the Athletic Um, it's written that there was some thought that Wilson was checked out during this season, but like a guy that's checked out doesn't rush back from a broken finger like that made me. That made me think, well, he seemed to be still be a great competitor. But if you're a guy who's checked out, aren't you gonna take that maximum time and get get to the off season? Any thoughts about that? Yeah, no, that that's fair. That's a good point, I will say. And and and that was something I heard directly. I guess I'm spilling which sections were Who's one? But like that that that's something I was able to contribute to the piece, that line in particular. And it's something I kind of heard later in the year, so like after the rush back from the finger injury, maybe around like uh maybe after they beat like the Texans. Maybe not directly after, but around you know, early December ish, where it's just guys like man three just may not be in it, you know, because players prefer to guys as their jersey numbers, like even though they know their full names and stuff like, it's like three might not be you know, in this all the way. And it makes sense, you know, right, because this is the guy who who's agent gave Adam Schefter here, man, if we don't want to trade, but if you're thinking about it, here's four teams, Like how do you already have four teams on deck? Right? That means you already have you got one leg out the door, you know. And then I think around that same time I heard that, uh, guys thought he was checked out? Boom, Jordan Schultz has the list of three new teams, Saints, Broncos and Giants. Rust gets asked about it, says, you know, I never said that to Jordan's okay, but that doesn't mean the information isn't true, right, which is which is important. He's not as at this as he thinks he is, doesn't it feel like that with the way Wilson tries to play the media, he's not as good as as some other players in a prominent position. I mean, I think his his it's really good there there. They are actually probably some of the best at playing this game. But it's just stuff like that is because you have a good question there, like right, a guy who's checked out is not gonna rush back. But I just think it was It was more so after towards the end, like man is this guy really want to be here still, Like you can just kind of sense there was leaks or performance or whatever. And then what do you know, um he uh he wants to dip. You know, he signed off on that no trade clause to to bounce the Denver. So I think the checked out part like adds up for me, especially if you think about it, like and everything after he comes back from the finger injury. What's so crystal ball this? Because now that's great that Seattle and the people inside won this power struggle and end of an era. Everything has changed, but you still have to go find the next quarterback. And you can't just try to sell Andy Dalton to the northwest part of the country here, Like what is the move? I mean, is there maybe something explosive coming like a Deshaun Watson or a trade for Kirk and someone that we can identify as an actual starter. Yeah, I would have to think so if for no other reasons survival And now I've been telling anybody who's willing to listen, Like in the NFL, I haven't been covering this that long. I'm twenty nine. But for the most part, for the for the most part, here, people who cause the need to rebuild, don't get to see the rebuild through. That's usually not how it goes. So like, if you missed the playoffs in and you have to rebuild, and you miss it again in two, what's what's the job security like at that point? So I think for survival purposes Pete Caroline John Snyder basically down to two options in my mind, like you said, you can't you can't try Jimmy g out there, miss Drabinsky and expect to keep your job for longer than a year, right, So I think they're down to two options. Either you get an established guy like Kirk, or you you keep your eyes on the biggest caveat qualifier in the world and see if Deshaun Watson is not going to jail um then you see if you can trade for him, or you you get a rookie in the draft. Get a rookie in the draft, maybe buy you from time, depending on how good or bad that rookie is. But I just think the option they have to eliminate is get the stop gap journeyman Jimmy g Tyrod Taylor, Geno Smith type of guy, because you can't trade Russell Wilson and then put that out there, like you can't put Tyrod Taylor on the season ticket holder renew email Ino, No, no, no, no, that's how you get can after two seasons trust the process. Yeah, but you made us feel very old, you know, saying you're still still in the twenties here. But I respect that you have watched Russell Wilson in person though, But before we let you go, I I'm just curious where you think his level of play is. Haven't haven't seen him so often in person? Do you think he is close to his peak? And do you think, like, what do you think the rest of his career could look like? Here? Because I think I do think if they believed in their hearts peak Carol and John Schneider for all the annoying aspects them him wanting to be out and and you had there was a source in the article that said, like, this era is over with five weeks left of the season, they thought it was out, so they saw this thing coming. I believe that if they thought he was Aaron Rodgers, if he was the top three or four quarterback, they still wouldn't trade him. And so they're betting on a little bit that maybe he's he's not at that level. What what level do you think he's gonna be at in the next couple of years. Yeah, they are. They are betting on that, Like I don't. I think part of the other part of this trade from their perspective is we ain't given him fifty million dollars a year, you know, this time next year, which at that they're prerogative, and I think you know, when they speak next week, or at least when Pete speaks, you probably hint at that there's a lot of money. Um only unless you for a guy, unless your guys like competing for m v P every year, which Russ was there for like you know, a couple of years, then that's just a really really really high price tap. I think that Russ at his peak is still one of the best quarterbacks in the league. I mean even in mahomes teen season, like Russ was right there behind him in touchdown percentage despite being on like the most run heavy team in the league. He was like m v P through like week nine. You can go check the numbers. He was through like week eight. You go check those numbers. So like at the peak of his powers, he can do it. I also think one thing working in his favorite is just consistency. You just know what you're gonna get from Russ every year, every week, every snap for the most part, you're gonna get like a Pro Bowl caliber player pretty much every year of his career. And I think that will be the case at least for the next three or four years. Um So I think also this another thing too. You look at when he broke his finger. Remember I said that Doc said six eight weeks. That was in week five. Let's imagine he took the full eight you start from when that would have been to the end of the year, and he was himself again. He was like a top five guy through five weeks, and the top five guy in like last four or five weeks with a presumably healthy finger. So as long as Rush stays away from Aaron Donald next year, the guy who broke his finger stay away from him, then he should be back to weight. Top five, top seven guy could have made a playoff run because we know Gino wasn't losing another start. If you just gave you know, I know it, uh, Michael Sean, before we let you go a lot of pop on this podcast, I through my support behind the Australian alternative rock group from Sydney, Gang of Youths a lot of pop. Behind the scenes. On Twitter, people are like, yeah, good choice. You are a music man. What are you listening to right now? What? What should our audience be plugged into in your room? I know you're a big hip hop guy. I am. I've actually been listening to more like artists who like infused like jazz into their hip hop, like a lot of Kenjick Lamar, like specifically his second album um With, where he worked with the dude named Thundercat, who's like a really George Duke inspired like hip hop kind of jazzy guy. Um So, I definitely recommend him, though he didn't like pay me to say that or anything. But just like when I write this is like I don't know how many people as writers that listening to the show, But when I write, I listened to a lot of like late nineties early two thousand's Neo soul um know, Scott Lauren Hill, D'Angelo music, soul Child, So like I can get down with music that precedes me a little bit. You know. That's all stuff that came out when I was like six or seven years old. But that's that's kind of my vibe again, making us feel a little because that was like in our college wheelhouse right there. Oh D'Angelo the slow pose? What was that song? Uh yeah, oh yeah. Um, all right, you've done it again, Michael Sean, and I apologize. I think I d M you and I called you SMD, which would be Shaun Michael Dugar, but it's Michael Seawan. Yeah, that's a bad job. But it's because because you you do in your Twitter you have Dugard comma Michael Seawan, and then it just scrambles in my head that that should be reversed as well. Is that on purpose? Uh no, no, no, just forget. I wrote my Twitter bio in like college. That's why if you notice it's still like in the third that third person thing I have bio. I wrote that like a long time ago, and people love it, so I haven't. It sounds like a Dan issue more than it does. It sounds like it's my problem, alright, Michael Shawn Dugar. Make sure you check him out at the Athletic. Also on the Seahawks Man to Man podcast. Thank you, my man, We'll catch up with you later. Appreciate you guys. For having me. Thank you, He goes Michael Shawn doug Um. That's what I'm talking about, Greggy. If you I think you're even in your it got it's on my nerves a little bit. I gotta say your top one on one. When you added Bobby Wagner, totally cool. There you have Wagner, by the way, where is he seventeen? Totally fair. He's not Bobby Wagner anymore, but he still capable player who can help the right team. But you you make sure to like say, oh, he's in decline like Russell Wilson. I'm not certain Wilson. You also called him thirty four and he's thirty three. These little things he's micro aggressions during the season, that's that's a problem. Yeah, that's these little micro aggressions towards will And I understand why you're not as babe, I find him annoying like the Seahawks, I think, I think that's what it is. But I what I thought that was very interesting what he said there that if you if you do put that full what the doctors were telling this man to do, which is you need to have the surgery, you need to rehabit, you need to give it the time, and he didn't and his place suffered as a result. So it was a little bit of you can say, oh, he's trying to be a good teammate, or you could look at the other that like throw it out because he was hurt. But it's his own like hubris that put him back in the right at least from a team perspective. But from an evaluation perspective, that's fair. Maybe I'm overrating the end to which really stuck in my head that last six, but you got a factor in the first eight weeks, X factor for me Broncos forward. Because all these players talk NonStop and we mentioned it, you know when the news broke and this article was just emphasized. It's so much more that Russell Wilson, for all his peculiarities, um seem to just not have a lot of player fans inside the locker room. And it's not just John Schneider and Pete Carroll in the in the Power Brokers. It's like, what that's an issue. I think for some of these quarterbacks that are moving from Team A to Team B, it's not just their play make it happen, though. I think in Denver for a couple. You know, it's like he'll help those guys get better numbers, will be fresh early on, But I mean, can it be sustaining? And one last thing, uh, that Michael Shawn pointed out, which I agree with when you kind of brought up, is the is the in decline to somebody that's been boots on the ground, there there's but there's a gray area. It's like, yes, they might have decided they wanted to move on without him because they think they're better in the long run, but that the fact that they don't want to pay him forty five to fifty million dollars doesn't necessarily mean they don't think he's an excellent star quarterback. That's just not the model that they think is the most effective way to build a champion, which you can absolutely make the case in the modern NFL that it's very hard to build a champion when you give that much to one player. It's you know, it's it's a thorny situation and it's in a lot of ways. I think the way it ended with Wilson not playing up to up to his highest level and the Seahawks going into decline, a lot of that I think would went into just a relationship running its course, performance getting caught up on that, and everyone needing a fresh start, right that That's sort of what I was getting at, like a year ago, where it was like you, on some level they had to make a choice as owners because it didn't seem tenable that if you really wanted to build around Russell Wilson, it probably was time for a regime change. They didn't want to do that, So it's time for Russell Wilson changed. The only the only concern here is there's no Mike Munchak in Denver, the offensive line coach, uh and that talent group up front. He might be complaining about his pass pro I'm getting hid too much. I'm just saying, that was such a great interview you guys. I'm just laughing. Not only Dan did you get his name wrong, but he's he's you know, younger, and I'm just laughing at him opening up his D M S and you saying, hey, s M D, which is a an acronym that people use for other things that means something. So I'm laughing at him looking at that. Do you say I didn't even think about that? That is one that's a tough one. It was unintentional, but I'm glad. I'm glad everyone just googled Urban dictionary. So yeah, I just have to let you guys know, like what that Oh, that's awesome. What that means? That is amazing? Hope? What was his response, he replied? He replied, I mean if he didn't reply, it would have been he arrived on the show. That that was good. He knew it was no bunch of old We were young. Why are you so self conscious about getting older? Greg? Why do you keep why do you keep throwing all of us under the bush. I'm totally doable. I like, it's just a good It's like, we don't do you want to? You want to? Ye? Amazing SMD, thanks for coming on the show. Day such a charring, right turn. You have to follow up it? And uh you said and that's why I said yikes, And you guys are just like, yeah, I got his name wrong, and I'm like, what, like what? I love it? Alright live, I've replaning on this show. It's even worse upon closer inspection. Sorry, what a week alright? Anyway, I love Michael shan Dugard. That guy gets it and he covers that team really well. So, uh he is you know where he is. Ricky's in the file. He'll be coming back in return. When Pete Carroll and John Schneider are swept out of the building a year from now. Could happen al right, before we go, let's just get caught up on the news of the day. Uh, Mary kay Cabot not on the show this week. Tony Grossi got the call and Cessler was the booker on that. Just uh parts that absolutely do not if you're listening anyone at all, do not take any of that as factual. That is anac. It was funny though that I built consensus around Uh if I build. Anyone wants to know how this show works, I can I well, it worked differently though I thought I was interested. It worked differently this week. Dan highly efficient. Is that what I would like? Dan nominated you, He said, Mark, this is a big moment for you. It was almost like and he was like, you are going to be in charge of book make the choice. You were saying, don't build consent, just make a machine. And we had a guest about ninety minutes later. No, you did great, And I thought Tony was great. But let's not let's not bend it his fiction that you didn't make the call. Well, let's say that I knew potentially that Mary Kay had this report that we're about to discuss coming up, and we'll talk to her next. Mark is the equivalent of like the middle manager who never wants to make any decisions. I don't want to anything charge of anyone. Let's say that of it well, and I love I love you for this Mark. One of my favorite markis ms in a text is whenever we're like planning things for the show, about once a week there will be a mark text that just says, Greg, bend me, shape me. Well that that that also, you know, not from your Guys musical era, So it's a catch. Well, it is not sometimes the easiest gaggle of individuals to suggest ideas among but West and I had We often use that as a code term because it was just like drag us to the show and then when the lights go on we perform. It's it's messed up the balance here because now you're the only one being Well, that's the thing I stand out shape where yeah, well, I think West and I were think about what would happen if we all had that mindset though, we wouldn't be here. But you cannot have four people battling. We already every show already is about eighty to nine text So it's like, do you want me to add another eighty or ninety Where I'm trying to think the show is successful. I think it is. It is. It's that it's mentioned to show building behind the scenes that plays a major role in the success and the audience we've built. I I would like to say that it's much more along with that that like some people, when you know, when that little light goes on, that's when you start to operate. There will be yeah, that's right. There will be a time, let's say, you know, anywhere between one and ten years or now, where those texts don't have been as much and we all show up when the red light turns on, and then the show will nose dives. How about have me have me host a show from A to Z this offseason. I'll do all the work and we will see what the product is. The product will be spicy. No one week, whole week. Give me a month. Other people have a month. I'm not mad. I'm I'm actually we're in day and tell me the news. Oh, we're still doing news. Mary Kay Cabot, who got snubbed snubbed by Mark Seil on the show this week, UM reports that the Browns have Derek Carr on their radar. We mentioned that earlier, but that's where the reporting came from. That. Mary Kay says, you know the Browns who are laying in the weeds here. We talked obviously with Grossy and said it seems like they're at some some point we need to believe the Browns when they say that Baker is their guy this year, Derek Carr. Would you rather have Derek Carr Kirk Cousins. By the way, Mark, that's a tough in the vacuum, who would you rather have? I would I would probably take Derek Carr based on what I thought he did this past season and with an organization into I want neither. It's like you would have to The thing about that why those are annoying quarterbacks is they're just good enough where you would probably have to give him a new contract that paid him thirty five to forty two million dollars no interest. I don't know, it's an easy answer. I think Derek Carr has been getting better. I think he's better than Baker. I think he's better than Kirk Cousins. And I think the whole like paint by numbers, Derek Carr doesn't create on his own. Maybe he doesn't use his athleticism as much as very safe. That's kind of perfect for Kevin Stefanski. That's like the Kyle Shanahan type of guy. So the fact that they're interested, I think there's something here. I think there's something here, and I would if I was a Browns fan. I think that is a big enough upgrade that I'm and what do what do the Raiders do? Then? If that's maybe they would be interested in given Baker, it's a shot here on on his fifth year. And and you mentioned that Josh mheals fascination right, and he's a little more stated. I don't you know, he's a little to me, Baker is not that pain by them. If there was gonna be a great Baker career, I don't know. If it's in a like go one to be every one to two with your permissions, every every play has a right answer on it, and you should do that right answer. That's what I want out of my Kyle Shanahan a little mechanical. That's not Baker. I could see Baker in a Raiders uniform too. When I heard Rex say, if I'm a Browns fan, I'm excited about Derek Carts like I am a Browns fan, And I'll tell you how a Browns fan feels about I. I just I guess I'm more excited than than how does it feel? Lyall Collins active trade talks around the offensive line the tackle for the Cowboys. Rap Sheet reports that the Cowboys are looking at deal the tackle. No deal is imminent at this time, according to the Pro Football Network, but the Cowboys, as we talked about earlier this week, are in a lot of captive stress right now. And if they move uh Collins, Uh, that's ten million dollars off the books. He's a good starting player. It just as a reminder a lot is going to happen in the next five or six days, especially on the Cowboys. Lawrence Cooper, Tyrann Smith, Lyle Collins like these guys are up for grabs. Oh, by the way, Connor Williams, who was a starter for them, is I don't think it's going to be resigned, and it was their starting guards. So usually if these reports get out there, that's usually a sign he's gonna be an ex cowboy. I have a feeling this is just a gut feeling to Marcus Lawrence calling their bluff and saying like I'm not taking pig up. They were like, actually, okay, we're gonna keep you still, Like I I think they're gonna make room and just keep to Marcus Lawrence because and maybe Lyle Collins is one way to do that. And finally, some notable cuts players that are entering uh the open market. The Lions cut a former splashy free agent signing in Trey Flowers after three years, Landon Collins and the Commanders part ways after a huge contract a few years ago as well. And Roger Saffold is also out um a guard who is falling off a little bit and now he opens hits the open market. Any of these guys, while I assume at least two of them Greggy are entering the top one hundred, only one Trey Flowers will no Landon Collins. Collins was the one hundred and seventies second ranked safety out of a hundred and six safes under and seventies six safeties a year ago. He's like a safety that can't cover, and he played linebacker and made some good All three of these guys got monster market setting deals at one point. Trey Flowers just got caught in a regime change where he doesn't fit that scheme. But he he he, and he's been hurt a decent amount. But I can imagine a Patriots like team or the Raiders giving him some good money. He's in the top one was like one twelve and so that was right at the spot. It is like, do you write the little rite up now, you know? And uh, lastly on Roger Staffold, who was on the Titans, he tweeted on last week that Bad Bunny is the greatest concert I've ever been to. Just a little note there, little peek behind the curtain that he's not just a football player. He's a man, and he's a man who likes music, especially music from Bad Bunny. Do you have any hip hop recommendations? Greg? I know, uh that lit up your Christmas tree when I teed up Michael Sean Dugarder. No, I'm I'm just, I'm old. I'm I'm just what is up with you? You're not you don't strike m as a guy that would struggle do I just bringing it up as uh, you know, way to make everyone feel uncomfortable. But even only like six months ago, you were heavily into this, into that musical scene. Why have you? Why suddenly are you now? Is it not accessible to you? No? No, I I do, but I don't have any like new hot things got you? Bad Bunny Born Benito Antonio Martinez Accacio. I mean Bad Bunny's big time. He's probably playing Madison Square, huge artist, huge, huge, huge. All right, Ricky, anything else? Now? I think you guys really nailed it. So is this like the last time we see you for a week and a half or something? Oh yeah, yeah, this time next week I will have my tot at the metrics from last year. She said, what is literally the most downloaded week of the entire year of the Around NFL podcast? Because I want to miss that? Is it? Free agency? Producer? Really right there? It's it's similar to like a big regular season Ricky. And let's go over the ground rules again of this ill time vacation. It is bad news um behind the scenes, unless somebody comes back with a ring on their fingers. Okay, So that's the one and then you can't. And there's also no shenanigans here. If there is no ring shared from one partner to the other, you must come back hat in hand on the show and apologize for missing the free agency. And if if you come back with a ring or Jet comes back with a ring, I don't know how it works, then we will not scold you both have rings? Well, also, Erica, have you if Eric has not purchased a ring, you don't know produced I don't know, Reduce, why would they both have a ring? By the post of my wife, I didn't get a ring until I was married. I know, but we don't know. Because men get to go out in the club when they're engaging, not have rings on their fingers. It's stupid, but you are. You are in a gay romance. If there is a gay romantic novel, if I understand what thing it changes anything when the engagement happens, you don't both come back with rings. Sometimes sometimes two parts. Shut up, I'm asking the gay woman. Yeah, Greg answer, just say and you can do whatever you want. Erica, actually, don't speak, Greg, tell me what happened two gay women get engaged. I'm just I'm making fun of you just being like, all right, let's see her. That's it's very important again, let's see what happens. Yes, we're a little bit older. It's important. You're playing catch up a little bit, and you're trying to learn about these other sides of the world. And I'm asking Erica, whose boots on the ground? Not Greg boots not on the ground? Yo ground? Yeah? Well, okay, so it depends, um a lot of it, Like it does depend but a lot of times there is one person. But a lot of times because gay couples are better than straight people. And I'll just say that because that's fact. Um, sometimes they both proposed at the same time and not know the other one was going to do it, so that it does seem she thinks she's coming back with a ring, or that she's bringing a ring. All right, how about this one more caveat. Definitely not gonna be an issue that nobody has a ring. We're gonna we're gonna toast you if you are engaged when you come back, if you if you're thinking it's going to be a dual proposal, and she doesn't do it, and then you do it and she says no, just let us know privately, and then we won't scold again and will have happened in your life. Yeah, I'm not going to be showing up the week after a free agency if she says no, and I'm staying in Camcoon and never. I don't doubt on any level that we would, absolutely that would find a way to become a discussion point on this show. Let me remember when Jet dumped you that ring. Once the initial hurt stay passes, it's all areas, all right, let's go, Ricky, enjoy your trip, good luck with everything, um and we'll be back on the television side tomorrow Friday. Make sure you DVR it or however you get your traditional television. It's up to you. You guys are old. I mean, I don't know what you know. Moved the little liars on top of full week shows on Monday. Tell the kid to walk up and just turn that dial. Get those bunny ears, full show, full week of shows for free agency in the start of a new league year. Uh so be there for that until then. This is Dan hansis signing up for the whole gang Banito Antonio Martinez a cons he the call