We’ve Got BEEF: 16 Crazy Stories from the ALL THE SMOKE Archives

00:00:01
Speaker 1: I'm an enforced you the claim.

00:00:03
Speaker 2: Keep that same energy.

00:00:04
Speaker 1: My guy'll fuck you up to what. Let's go, who you talking to? Laying for him to say that type to me, it just th me for a lout. You don't get out of here, he may swing on me.

00:00:14
Speaker 3: I I was right there.

00:00:15
Speaker 4: You got on national television and you call.

00:00:17
Speaker 5: Me, I'm gonna cush you out and I'm gonna talk to I'm gonna speak my mind. Welcome to the show, Mock Mood, I do a roath at this point, your name is Mack Mood.

00:00:35
Speaker 1: I'm due a roath.

00:00:37
Speaker 5: Coincidentally, you know you're you're you're really starting to find yourself off the court, playing better on the court, but there's pushback from that from fans and media. Can you speak to when you've kind of entrenched yourself and made the name change and have that crossover, because there's been historical athletes to have done the same, can you speak to what that transition was like for you?

00:01:00
Speaker 6: Yeah, you're right, so many athletes before I have done that. The most notable obvious is Muhammad Ali. People sometimes are scared of what they don't know, but some people are very aware of the significance of a name change. To some people, they understand it to be a highly social and political move that you made, because look, most of our names are residues of slavery, no matter how we want to avoid that.

00:01:38
Speaker 1: Jackson, yeah, for sure.

00:01:40
Speaker 6: And so when you decide to take the initiative to choose your own name, and it's not one of those names for people that understand history, and they can get offended by it, like, oh, oh, we lost this. He has a mind of his own. He thinks for himself, you know. So I think some of that came from that, I really do, And a lot of it came from the fact that, look, we have in every walk of life, where the Christian, Jewish, Agnostic, atheists, whatever, you have people that live a certain way. They claim to be one thing and they don't totally practice. None of us are perfect right, and some you can't tell right in terms of But when you began to.

00:02:30
Speaker 7: Like a C.

00:02:31
Speaker 6: Green in the NBA, he showed his Christianity, but he was also kind of shunned. He wasn't a part of the country club because he was so strict with his beliefs. So when you begin, when I began, when I first accepted first accepted, it was, oh, hey, no problem. But when they started to see me engaging people in conversation, praying in the locker room, help. I got to pray before the buzz go off. And now I'm taught to have real conversation now, not just about some.

00:03:00
Speaker 1: Not superficial superficial stuff.

00:03:03
Speaker 6: Now it becomes an issue, and it's like there's this sense that I don't want him to infect other people, right, And I.

00:03:13
Speaker 1: Really felt that. I really felt that from.

00:03:15
Speaker 6: The bottom of my heart, and it ended up coming out. What's his name, Mike Evans, assistant coach, went to the point of asking someone behind my back about his Lamb stuff that he's been saying. And he came to and he said, my mood I talked to religious. He said, you don't have to be praying. No, So he figured, I ain't know. I'm just not a Muslim. It's not serious. But I read and I ended up explaining to him. I said, listen, that's not correct, and I gave him some verses in the Kurd and I said, Mike, from here on out, man, if you got a question, you don't have to sneak behind my back to go ask somebody and then see if I'm practicing my religion, right, I said, Come, I ask me. I said, I don't have no problem telling you the truth. And I said, and I'm gonna tell you when I tell you some go look it up because I want That's how my game a person's trust.

00:04:01
Speaker 1: Right.

00:04:01
Speaker 6: The more I show you something, you find.

00:04:03
Speaker 1: It for yourself. You listen a little bit more. Yeah.

00:04:06
Speaker 5: So in the doc it became national attention in ninety six when you decided not to stand for the national anthem. But you had been doing it what four to six months, I think you said in the dock before that when that kind of hit the national media. And we're at a time where obviously today something hits we can instantly give our side the story, defend whatever we're not in that time in nineteen ninety six, How did your life change?

00:04:32
Speaker 6: It was pretty immediate the fallback. I remember after doing that that interview, after shoot around, I'm going home. We have a game against Shaquille O'Neal Orlando. And the reason I say that, man, I'm these are conversations we have all the time, right on the bus, on the plane, We're having them, and so I didn't really think anything of it. I'm just speaking what I believe to be true. But I knew that it was serious when even more so, I knew it was serious at the shoot around, but I knew it was even extra serious when Bernie called me to his office when I got to the arena and he said, well, he said, the NBA wants to suspend you if if you don't stand, What do you say, said Bernie, I'm not standing. He said, well, some people want to call you, so get him on the phone. And so we're now talking. I wish I could remember who it was. And as we were talking, they said they started talking to me, trying to convince me. I said, listen, man, I'm not going to stand. I said, so you do what you gotta do, and I'll do what I have to do. And I'm so green man, Literally, I've never been suspended in my life. I'm thinking it's going to take an active legislation. I'm gonna be able to go play for a few weeks. And then they got to go through a board and a process and boom, and I'm like, can I go put my stuff on, man and go play? He said no, I said, I'm suspended now. He said, yeah, I said, well, can I get dressed and go into the arena and support the team? He says no. I said, hunh. He said no, they don't want you on the premises. Have a go. So I walked out, went down, said what I had to say to the teammates and they look and I drove home. Before I knew it, man, it was global. It was all over the news. Then I got on the phone with some people that I knew, a mentor of mine, and we talked. And that's the only reason only reason I came back the next day or whenever it was the next game, is because the example that he gave me about something that the Prophet did in light of a situation when there's a Jewish funeral possession passing by and they were war at the time, and the Prophet stood up and his companions like, hey were fighting them, and they fighting us. We're killing each other. He said, what are you standing? He said, I'm not standing because they gave. I'm not standing for their cause. I'm standing because God gave a life and he took a life. He said, so you can stand, and it not be for what America and his brutality.

00:06:58
Speaker 1: And it's imperially stick ways.

00:07:00
Speaker 6: And represent you could be standing for those who are pressed, who are the victims, and you could be making prayer. And I was mad at him when he told me that in a way because the pride in me didn't But he made so much sense, and I like the pride. If you make sense, respect it.

00:07:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, I.

00:07:24
Speaker 6: Mean I was furious, you know. And I said, because I knew what the media would say, you're gonna and so when I came back, it was very old. So you made a Comprehence said, listen, man, as a Muslim, as a human being, we make a decision. But if we see something better, we do that, I said. But don't make no mistake. I said, I still feel the same way that my position hasn't changed. And I had to keep beating that to him and let him know I'm not going to backpedal. I'm not gonna become less outspoken as a result of this. We can go back to the same process if you're going to and kick me out again, no problem, you know. And and so that's just been my position. And is this my position, brother, because I said to myself years ago, and I keep repeating this, and we all have to as athletes. How many times you wake up, you got to motivate your remind yourself taught, And I said, you know what my mission is to live and die with a free conscience and a free soul.

00:08:20
Speaker 5: Whether people like it or not, can't put a price on that. Isaiah Thomas, thank you for that time.

00:08:32
Speaker 1: Man.

00:08:33
Speaker 5: We had Magic on the show at the end of December and your name came up and Magic was talking about what you and him went through and how you guys were able to sit down and patch it up, which is beautiful, by the way, Thank you. Everyone was big fans of that. But he also said he would like to see you and Mike patch it up. You called me after that and we had a conversation on the phone about what was going to care to share any of that?

00:09:04
Speaker 8: Man.

00:09:04
Speaker 4: You know, I just want some people to be honest.

00:09:07
Speaker 9: I got I got no problem sitting down talking with anybody right.

00:09:11
Speaker 4: And as you can see, you know, I I'm.

00:09:14
Speaker 1: The open book.

00:09:16
Speaker 9: You know, I live with love, peace, truth, you know, honesty, courage, I'm you know, I stand on my square.

00:09:24
Speaker 4: I'm upright.

00:09:25
Speaker 9: You know I'm independent and I sit in any chair and I talk to anybody right.

00:09:30
Speaker 4: But some people don't.

00:09:31
Speaker 9: They ain't been telling the truth right now, anywhere, anytime publicly. I don't don't call me behind the scenes apologizing or asking your friends to apologize. Right, you got on national television and you call me an asshole, and then you said you hated me.

00:09:55
Speaker 4: You said that on national television.

00:09:59
Speaker 9: Now, if you didn't mean it, get on national television, say that and apologize for it. Now, if you meant it, let it ride as it is. But so I called you in that same day. You know who I call, I call Magic Johnson. Magic was on the plane. There was shooting commercial in Atlanta. Him, Sam Jackson, everybody else. We were standing in the Four Seasons Hotel. We missed each other, right because he said he had to go, So he on the plane, right. I called him up. Magic didn't mention Michael Jordan. All right, So I'm still waiting. You know, everybody say this stuff publicly. Right, Hey, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this.

00:10:49
Speaker 1: All right.

00:10:49
Speaker 9: Well, I'm the type of guy I sit here, I talked to you, I talk to you. It ain't a person in this United States of America that I'm not willing to sit down and have a conversation with and break bread with. But if you line and throwing stones from behind the scenes, okay, that's you. But if you honest and you upright on your square, I'm willing to deal with.

00:11:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, so that's all I know. Now where do we go from here?

00:11:30
Speaker 5: I mean you told me something. I mean, you have family that had stayed with him, and say, at one point.

00:11:33
Speaker 9: Absolutely eight when when Jordan first came to Chicago. First of all, we were fans of his and to some extent still fans of his. My family, his family not only did they socialize, ain't out But as I said, you know, I.

00:12:05
Speaker 4: I had a little nephew that lived.

00:12:06
Speaker 9: With him, and and everybody's still cool, right, Ain't no, ain't no hate for Jordan. We just want some realness, right, just you know, like I said, you you got on national television and ain't nobody, ain't nobody nowhere has ever got on national television and called me an asshole and then publicly said you hate me. I ain't heard that from you. I ain't heard that from you. I ain't heard that from no NBA player. And so I'm and by the way, all them years that you supposedly hated me. You voted for me to be the president of your union.

00:12:52
Speaker 10: Yeah, you know, I've seen a lot of pictures of All Star games and y'all laughing and joke and it didn't look like hate.

00:12:58
Speaker 6: Yeah.

00:12:58
Speaker 9: I'm just saying, like, you know, if if that you know now now maybe you felt like that privately and I didn't know, but now that I do know. And by the way, if you didn't meet it that way, then publicly say it. Don't privately say it. You know, magic, we don't need a private conversation. This man did this on national television internationally. I have to answer this question right in every interview that I sit down and do you asking me this question right? So now now I'm the one who's looking like, oh, why are you talking about Jordan?

00:13:39
Speaker 4: Why are you saying it? When you to put that out there?

00:13:43
Speaker 9: And now you at home or on your golf course or doing whatever you do, And now I got to answer this BS question. So if you mad enough, and you and you and you, if you meant it, leave it as it is. But if you didn't mean it, then come out and clean it up the same way it came out, same way it came out with the same intensity.

00:14:06
Speaker 1: You gotta respect that though.

00:14:08
Speaker 4: That's why I say that.

00:14:10
Speaker 10: I mean because if the shoe was on the foot, I know I've been disrespected a lot of if somebody disrespected me on TV during the game, but also at the end of the game, they decided. You know what, I remember, I said that, let me clear this up or we get off air. I gotta respect that. I can't hold it. I can't be mad at him no more because he corrected himself.

00:14:26
Speaker 9: Now you you you said Magic and I sat down and and squashed whatever we.

00:14:32
Speaker 1: Had publicly publicly.

00:14:34
Speaker 9: Magic Johnson apologized. He said, I'm sorry if I hurt you. When I hurt you, I didn't mean that. I'm good with that. Yeah, I gotta accept that and we move on. But if you're gonna let this linger out here in this basketball world, and you got everybody else talking, but you ain't saying nothing now, ifew mins.

00:15:00
Speaker 1: To stand on it.

00:15:01
Speaker 4: Stand on it. But if you didn't mean it, clean it up.

00:15:06
Speaker 5: You mentioned, uh, you know, obviously, there there's no secret that you and Magic were best to friends at one point. And what did it mean to you, to you guys to be able to sit down and clear that air for you.

00:15:18
Speaker 9: It meant a lot, not only to me, but we didn't know, and I didn't know how much it would mean.

00:15:25
Speaker 4: To all of us, to the world.

00:15:26
Speaker 9: I had no idea, you know, because when you when you're going through that, you're just thinking about yourself. You're not thinking about really how it's affecting other people. And I just had the same thing happened with Karl Ma Malone and I. Right, and by way, thank you Kenyon, love you sacking off strong, But you don't realize what the other person is carrying. Right, you're feeling you know yourself and your grief and you're herd right, But the other person who's carrying a guilt, when you have the opportunity and you can relieve them of that, not knowing that that's how much they carrying. Right that that that was a powerful moment not only for he and I, but it was a powerful moment for the world, which we didn't know. So it's like two moments we've had that we didn't realize what we was really doing that ended up changing a lot of stuff. Like when he and I like first hugged and kissed, right ah, oh, you know what they It's like, I can't I can't meet my brother and give him a handshake. Whenever I met family, it was always an embrace, right when we did that in the eighties, two men, right, black masculinity, you know, and being called in the question you're not supposed to you know, you're supposed to have this, you know this off it's about you and all this stuff. Well, when we broke down that barrier, we didn't realize what we had really done. Now when we saw each other today, first thing we did we hug you.

00:17:11
Speaker 1: You can't wait to hug you when I see you? Yeah, let me.

00:17:14
Speaker 9: And then then then we hugged for men because I wanted to feel you, right, And but back then that was so controversial. Right now, us coming together forgiven compassion, love, friendship, right, it's another powerful moment. Not knowing that that's what we were doing, right, you know. So, And I'm glad that he and I got to share that.

00:17:44
Speaker 5: I mean, you mentioned and obviously this is going to come up to you mentioned you got a chance to sit down with Carl at this last All Star in Utah.

00:17:52
Speaker 1: What did you know? How did that go? Man?

00:17:54
Speaker 4: For years, man, I wanted to do something to Carl Man.

00:17:57
Speaker 5: You know, you mentioned some people might have met Aymark told this story about how he was watching that game on TV when he was a youngster and got him back for you.

00:18:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm saying thank you.

00:18:08
Speaker 5: Yeah, what I'm saying, so you said thank you for people might another car.

00:18:11
Speaker 9: But let me but let me say, let me say why I said thank you, and then let me let me go further with that, because for years, that dude put a mark on me man, And and for years I was like, I'm gonna get my mark back. You know, you put a scar on me, and get my scar back, and I get my scar back.

00:18:36
Speaker 4: We even but that, you know, my straight up but.

00:18:53
Speaker 9: And and so fast forward, right, you know, I'm carrying this around for years, for years, last dance come out and and you know, every you know, the narrative was, you know, everybody hated Isaiah. You know, nobody wanted him around, nobody wanted to be a part of it so far. So so that was what's being played. So now on the background, I'm getting calls from everybody. I'm getting calls from the shock hit the Chicago Bulls team teammates. People in the Chicago Bulls front office. I'm getting calls from people who was on the Dream Team saying.

00:19:32
Speaker 1: Hey man, that ain't me.

00:19:34
Speaker 4: You know how I feel about you?

00:19:35
Speaker 1: Okay? Cool?

00:19:38
Speaker 4: They don't get called from Carl.

00:19:42
Speaker 9: And I'm like, and he say, hey man, I and this was years ago, say hey man, I just want to tell you, like, you know, I hear all this stuff about the Dream Team.

00:19:54
Speaker 4: You know, I car talk.

00:19:55
Speaker 9: I'm a man, I'm a real man. I don't you know. I ain't hiding behind nothing. And you know I didn't have nothing to do with that. You're not making a team as a matter of fact. You know, I'm speaking for Stockton. Then I we and he said this on camera. He said, if there was a secret meeting me and Stocked and wasn't a part of those secret meeting trying to keep you off the team, that wasn't us. So now you know my next question is, you know, so man, why you hit me like that? And this is what I have to respect and and Kenyon, I hope you can respect this too, brother, because and you know, and all my people in Chicago and in Detroit everywhere, I hope y'all can respect this about Karl Malung because what he said was, Hey, look, I I meant to hit you. That's how we played. You come down the lane, you gonna you're gonna get some physicality. So I meant to do it, he said. But I but I didn't mean to do that. And I apologize because I didn't mean to do that. Hey, I have to accept that, you know what I mean? Because that now, if he would have been like, I'm a tough guy. You know, that's how we play, and yeah, I'm gona lay you, oyh blah blah blah. But at the same time, now, now he gets emotional and he started crying. And you know when people start crying, Now you crying. Yeah, So you never know what people dealing with, bro. Yeah, And so I was only looking at it from my point of view. I never knew the type of guilt that he was walking around carrying. And so by me saying, hey man, it's okay, I love you brother, were good man, he said, you just took the whole weight off my shoulder. Now, I never knew he was walking around with weight. I just thought he was walking around like, yeah, I'm a tough dude. Look what I did to you, and and somebody else I'm gonna do but that ain't the way he was thinking. And when he said, yeah, I meant to hit you, but I didn't mean to do that. Now, that last part I got accept right, and that's you know that that was real, So I respect that.

00:22:22
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show Byron Scott so b.

00:22:25
Speaker 5: You were Stacks coach his rookie season, and from what I've heard over the years, there was a little bit.

00:22:31
Speaker 1: Of funk at some point.

00:22:32
Speaker 5: What was the what was what was what was the I mean, we're here on all the smoke and so y'all are good now, but what was what was the fun? I'm gonna start with you, Jack, what was the disconnection you think will coach at some point.

00:22:42
Speaker 1: Your rookie year?

00:22:43
Speaker 10: Well, for me, you know, first, if I said anything burning past, I've finished you.

00:22:49
Speaker 1: I apologize. I've grown up. I'm a man now.

00:22:51
Speaker 10: But at the time, I was hurt because I just came back out the rookie All Star Game and I just fought to get into the league, you know, three four years, you know, going through overseas and stuff, and when I came back from All Star, I just didn't play.

00:23:06
Speaker 1: And I never understood why. We never had a conversation about it.

00:23:08
Speaker 10: I never understood why, and you know, not not understanding and being a young guy that was working to get to the NBA. Then I make the Rookie All Star Game when I first get in, and now I come back and I'm just not playing from starting, like I didn't know what to think.

00:23:22
Speaker 1: You know, I'm young, so for for for a long.

00:23:24
Speaker 10: Time I helped, So I held some hate for you because I felt like, damn, I never got an explanation, like when I when he gave me the opportunity, like I praised him because this he gives He's giving me a chance to start my first game in the NBA, like I started my like that gave you know, and you know how I showed you that I appreciated that, you know what I'm saying, But then to not play when I came back. I never understood why, and I never got a chance to ask you.

00:23:48
Speaker 11: Why, and kind of like what you just said, you know, Jack, anything I did back in those days, I apologized as well, because I've grown up and I was I was a head coach, you know what I'm saying, And this how this whole thing started from the get go, just how he made the team.

00:24:04
Speaker 1: We had we had open runs.

00:24:06
Speaker 11: My first year's coaching Jersey, Right, how old are you at this point, thirty six?

00:24:10
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. Yeah, exactly, I'm thirty six.

00:24:13
Speaker 3: I'm young.

00:24:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I still got player. I still got player of mentality. You know what I'm saying.

00:24:18
Speaker 11: Man, So we got open runs and I don't know if jack remember ASKI right after two days. I said, Eh, who the hell is that? He said, oh, that's Stephen Jackson. I said, where he come from?

00:24:37
Speaker 1: Supposed to be there? I've never seen it.

00:24:38
Speaker 11: He wasn't supposed to be at the runs. The list of names I had, his name went on there. So I'm like, well, where hell they come from? He said, oh, well he came out of high school. It didn't work out. I think Phoenix or somebody overseas.

00:24:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:24:49
Speaker 11: So I said, we'll invite him back. You know, he keeps coming back. I said, man, we got to bring him the camp. He was like, you serious? I said, hell, yeah, bring him the camp. He started the first game, my first evident invite from pick up an invite from pickup games to an invite to start in the first game. Now we had a bunch of injuries, too. We had a bunch of guys in the game. Yeah, we have a bunch of guys that hurt. And not taking anything away from Jack because he started the first game and once we came back from the All Star break, those guys are getting healthy.

00:25:22
Speaker 1: Johnny Newman.

00:25:22
Speaker 10: Yes, but as a youngster, you know how don't understand that, and you know, as a young coach what I should have done.

00:25:29
Speaker 1: Explain exactly what I should have done.

00:25:32
Speaker 11: Jackets took you to the side after they all start breaking, said, look you did. You've done a hell of a job. You've been playing the treatment well. But I got to see these guys play because when I was in vent I understood it.

00:25:41
Speaker 12: You know.

00:25:42
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying.

00:25:42
Speaker 11: I gotta because I gotta make changes. I got to figure out who's gonna be here the next year and.

00:25:46
Speaker 1: Who's because those are making money too, and they're making a rookie. We had Jim McClain too.

00:25:51
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, man, we had so many We have so many guys. And it wasn't that Rod Thorn, who was our president of basketball operation, told me you got to play these guys. I just knew I had to play. I got to see what we got for next year. I got to see who I got to get the hell out of here.

00:26:06
Speaker 1: Kendall Gill came in. It was kenyr first year, Kenya's first year. Yep, kend O Gil came in.

00:26:11
Speaker 11: When I had my season meeting with everybody, and you know, like I said, I should have approached Jacker talk because he was nineteen twenty years old, you know, so when he wasn't playing, you know, he would come to practice and he was pissed and I was still there.

00:26:23
Speaker 10: You remember my when I first got there, I went to I went to burn like a little kid when because I first got that my grandfather had I I was a.

00:26:30
Speaker 1: Kid, bro I was still a kid. Yeah.

00:26:32
Speaker 11: So I mean, you know, as much as you say, you know things, I could have handled it about a lot better. But I was youngest shit too, you know what I'm saying. I was my first year coach, thirty six years old. As a head.

00:26:43
Speaker 1: That was your first year. That was my first year. That was so I looked back on it and I said.

00:26:49
Speaker 11: Man, you know what I should have did, which I did later on because you learn from your mistakes, is that I should have took Jack to the side and said listen, this is what's going on.

00:26:58
Speaker 1: I got to find out.

00:26:59
Speaker 11: So you just keep one of your things, keep practicing, keep doing what you're doing, coming to practice with a great attitude. And if I would explain that to him shut down, it would have been a lot different. But he shut down, and Kenyon was the rookie. King was like, I got him, coach, I got it. And we had one practice where he really shut down. I said, Jack, just just go on the locker room, get.

00:27:22
Speaker 1: Him. And Steph was like this step you and Stephan King, Steph and Keing, Yeah, oh yeah, button head.

00:27:31
Speaker 11: So so Kenyon was Keny was trying to be the calm one, and you know ken ain't to calm. He trying to be the colm one and keep everybody together. And he was like, I got him, I got I got Jack.

00:27:41
Speaker 1: Coach.

00:27:41
Speaker 11: I said, okay, So that that particular day when I just looked at Jack, I said, Jack, good ship, don't get out of here. And I looked at King. He just looked at me, did like this, And I didn't know I be a profession of them. So it was it was it was a two way street. And uh, like you said, we both goten older.

00:27:58
Speaker 1: We're both grown.

00:27:59
Speaker 11: You know, Like I said, my biggest mistake was I wish I could go back and say, let me take him to the side and explain the situation.

00:28:06
Speaker 1: And I still hold that appreciation.

00:28:08
Speaker 10: Nothing has changed with you giving me the opportunity when nobody else did and allowing me to start my first NBA game, So I will forever appreciate you for that.

00:28:24
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, DeAndre Jordan. Man, I was the first trade.

00:28:26
Speaker 5: By the way, let's back up and talk about why I was the first trade. That's what I wanted to say earlier.

00:28:31
Speaker 1: I don't remember that. I think remembers that moment.

00:28:34
Speaker 5: But you were sitting and you were sitting right next to me when all the ship went down. I was like, man, please stop because he was picking on me. Please because he was picking on me over some bullshit, like I took two We played the Warriors, I think right, but we had played the Warriors, were watching the Warriors, and I took two shots the whole game. And he started like every shot he reround and then I made I was over to you should have passed here, you should have did this was like, hold on, doc, I took two shots the whole fun game play defense all the time, other peoples playing like like what, like I don't mind you doing it, but you're doing too much. And then he started talking back to me, and I started talking back to them. So when I got up.

00:29:10
Speaker 13: And it's very uncharacteristic of Matt to ever talk back to the coach, I just want to let everybody know that this is a real good guy. He's coachable, don't say shit, just kind of put his head down at work.

00:29:21
Speaker 1: So this is people that I do.

00:29:23
Speaker 5: I grind, Yeah, I mean, I don't talk shit back to no coach, but I just felt like he was on me a little x too much.

00:29:28
Speaker 4: So I get up. In the whole room was like like kind of like they didn't know what was going on.

00:29:33
Speaker 5: So I get up and me and DJ are on the far wall, and then to walk out, you got to go past the coaches t lou and docking them. And when I got up, DJ Matt man, please don't man, don't stop. Matt, don't Matt stop. So I get up and everyone's scared as fuck. They'll know what I'm gonna do, because I really don't know what I'm gonna do.

00:29:50
Speaker 1: If nobody want to get in front of means like he may swing on me, so let me hear.

00:29:55
Speaker 5: So I don't know if I'm gonna take off on Doctor just leaves, so I look and I look at him and I kind of shake my head and he's kind of like, so I say, fucking, I just go out and I'm about to go. I'm about to just say fucking and take my shit off and go home. I'm like, now, fucking, I can't let my teammates. This as close as the playoffs, I want to say, I can't let my teammates down. So I just sit in there and I can see the field, so you can see the courts from the locker room. So when they come back, when they go out, don't watch a film. We all go out to stretch. I'm like, fucking I go back out there.

00:30:21
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm the starting three.

00:30:24
Speaker 14: We're stretching.

00:30:27
Speaker 5: And Doc tells me to come flip my jersey to white. Oh and when I tell you, Bro, I wanted to cuss his motherfucking ass out that day.

00:30:36
Speaker 1: But this is a whole, This is a two day process.

00:30:39
Speaker 5: DJ I cussed him out the next day a shoot around when we played Portland and we had an early game. So anyway, so Doc tells me to take my shit off, and I look at him and just kind of so I took my ship off and I threw my jersey. I'm like, I was like, I'm not flipping my shit. These motherfuckers know what team I'm on. And when I tell you, I went out there and bullied the whole practice, bullied everybody.

00:31:01
Speaker 1: Y'all ever seen for anybody?

00:31:03
Speaker 15: Maybe you could put a clip up the longest yard, yes, the way Michael, everyone was playing basketball.

00:31:11
Speaker 14: I oh shit, I was like, man, we're good, right.

00:31:17
Speaker 4: So it fucked me up.

00:31:19
Speaker 5: I think I was in trouble for smoke and I started smoking again that night, didn't sleep all night. It killed me that I didn't say nothing or jump on Doc. So the next day we have an early shoot around and I just go in on him, go in on him, and in front of everyone. We brought it in and I just cussed his ass out. We cussed each other out. We went through shoot around for a little bit. Then we were back in the locker room and I was trying to fuck Dock up and then Mike Brod or Mike Woodson got in the middle of it. I told fuck you what do y'all fuck you up to? We all so and then finally that just me and Doc got in his office and I made sure everyone else got out. I locked the door and we just had a real conversation. And it was his tone that changed a little bit. But I think he was ready. Yeah, it was ready. And then everyone was like listening on the door and anyway I saw I say all that to say after we lost to Houston, I was traded.

00:32:06
Speaker 1: At twelve oh one. That's where.

00:32:10
Speaker 5: That's why I told the story. I was traded at twelve o one or Lance Stevenson, Welcome to the show, Will Smith. Nearly six months removed from your situation. What have you learned about yourself from that Oscar night?

00:32:32
Speaker 1: That that was? That was a horrific night, man, That was that was a horrific night to you for me? Yeah, yeah, I mean all the real ones.

00:32:43
Speaker 10: Who understood I'm going to stand up for my wife whether I'm right or wrong in any place. So I understood that I don't care what you say. Nobody can't make me think that anything you did was wrong.

00:32:53
Speaker 16: Let me tell you one of the uh the words, because I was right there and I get home and my nephew, uh nine years old.

00:33:03
Speaker 1: His name is Dom and he is the sweetest kid in the world. You know. Him and my sister live with me.

00:33:12
Speaker 16: And I'm sitting we got these bean bags in the kitchen. I'm sitting in the kitchen. He's sitting between my leg and he's holding the oscar and he goes, why you hit that man, Uncle Will? And I was like, and it's like, you know, I'm gonna be crying. Somebody got a tissue and.

00:33:35
Speaker 1: It was I got one.

00:33:36
Speaker 16: I got one, And it was like, sa yea, I knew y'all was gonna have me right.

00:33:41
Speaker 2: You can't explain it to him.

00:33:44
Speaker 1: He stayed up late waiting for you, waiting.

00:33:47
Speaker 14: For Uncle Will, you know.

00:33:49
Speaker 16: And it was like, you know, I can, I can do all the justifications for ever.

00:33:54
Speaker 1: He won't understands.

00:33:55
Speaker 6: He can't.

00:33:56
Speaker 1: You know, our brother.

00:34:06
Speaker 5: King time you talked to us about the Michigan experience, because it was historical from a standpoint of us looking up to y'all the streets, loving y'all, but the pushback that you guys got from mainstream media the school after y'all did so much for them and now, I mean, it makes makes us feel good when you hear you know they're starting to accept y'all back because the ship was bullshit to begin with. But talk to us about that journey, that experience, because I mean, you were at the top of the top at times, and even when you're at the top, probably emotionally you felt like you was at the bottom because all the bullshit y'all.

00:34:37
Speaker 1: Was facing correct and you ready for this.

00:34:39
Speaker 17: And again, like I have no ill will to my Michigan experience, I said, once Juwan got the job, Yeah, I could go to a game my brother standing on the sideline, suited and booted. Even if they don't acknowledge us, they got to acknowledge us because my brother standing around.

00:34:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

00:34:56
Speaker 17: But to be honest with you, to answer that question, they still don't acknowledge us to this day, to.

00:35:04
Speaker 10: This day's not going back up.

00:35:07
Speaker 1: I would just add, I got season tickets looking up now.

00:35:11
Speaker 5: Motherfucker's still out up there, huh, to this day, this.

00:35:17
Speaker 1: Week that's that's that's week two.

00:35:19
Speaker 10: Because just like he said, I just told him, I don't remember when I stopped my junior year in high school ninety five.

00:35:25
Speaker 1: We ball hads big shurance blackside because of y'all.

00:35:29
Speaker 10: So we know what the influence so so for y'all not to be accepted there, that kind of just said. It says a lot about the university to people like us to this day.

00:35:37
Speaker 17: Deontay Walder, I got season tickets. I go to the games to represent from my brother. I ain't go back when see Webb got his band and then like how we weren't acknowledged from when I left until like twenty twenty twenty eighteen, a twenty year period. I ain't go back to ann Arbor but like once one time until Juwan.

00:36:07
Speaker 2: Got the job.

00:36:08
Speaker 17: That's when I let it go. But they still ain't like acknowledging us. They can the Fab five numbers ain't even retire at Michigan.

00:36:18
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

00:36:19
Speaker 17: That's crazy right now, Like I was just watching a kid shout to Robbie Humble, a kid to go to Purdue.

00:36:27
Speaker 1: I was watching the.

00:36:28
Speaker 17: Game like he regards never retired, right, And so I had to ignore it, Matt.

00:36:36
Speaker 1: I had to ignore it, Jack, I had to just let it go. How hard? How hard is that though?

00:36:41
Speaker 10: Because it's like like that's some of your best years of your life, the best, you know what I'm saying the best and then some of them and them bonds that y'all built, you know what I'm saying, they gonna last forever.

00:36:53
Speaker 17: And what pisses me off is that my Texas brothers don't get their true salute. Yeah, Like I love Ray and Jimmy, and I ride for them on and off the camera.

00:37:07
Speaker 1: They'll tell you.

00:37:09
Speaker 17: And I hate that Ray Jackson sacrificed so much to be a part of our team. And I know he was purposely kept out of the NBA at that time, really purposely. He wanted MVP of the CBA and still didn't get.

00:37:26
Speaker 1: In the league. Sure it did, Sure did.

00:37:29
Speaker 17: That's the equivalent of y'all are winning the MVP of like the G League or whatever. The man mind he was balling, Yeah, he was balling. He deserved the chance to play. Same with Jimmy, and so I hate now that the nil rules exist. Imagine if they could have got bred, then we had hirachis that we was rocking long short black shoes. Imagine if we got bread off of every pair of black socks to get.

00:37:53
Speaker 1: Sold, we would have had that. We would have had that body wasn't doing that, We would have had.

00:38:01
Speaker 17: That and so I hate that for them because Ray, in particular, he sacrificed the most. Ray was faster than us, He's more athletic than us. Like I used to sit back and marvel at him, like like you should want to tax your stock.

00:38:21
Speaker 1: In fact, me and him had this confidence.

00:38:23
Speaker 17: We were He'll tell you we're in South quad at u of M and he wasn't playing.

00:38:30
Speaker 1: I had talks with Ray, like.

00:38:31
Speaker 17: God, you might need to think about transfer.

00:38:37
Speaker 1: He was that good. He gave up that much.

00:38:40
Speaker 17: And so I hate for them not to get their love right because they deserve it so much.

00:38:49
Speaker 5: I mean, obviously we were touching on the lows, but talk about some of the highs. And in the culture, how you guys were able to, you know, intermix the culture of hip hop and sports at such a young age, Like you leave that too and Alan iverson when he gets to the NBA, But you guys were able to do it as teenagers.

00:39:06
Speaker 17: Like Magic and Bird like helped revolutionize the NBA for the eighties, right, Like, so that's the league I ended up watching. And then like Jordan and Isaiah and Hakeem and all of these guys get drafted in the eighties. So like they needed to turn around the image of the NBA. So they weren't really like politically driven as the athletes before them, the Muhammad Ali's, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell. They weren't as politically driven. But I looked up to UNLV's team, Anderson Hunt went to my high school, you know, to find a four MVP of nineteen ninety play with LJ and Stacey aug He went to my high school. Derrick Coleman was when he was at Syracuse. Big John when he was at Georgetown. Big John actually reached out to us because that was a time where he was opposing the prop forty eight rules and the game would start, they tossed the ball up in Big John to walk off. Well, he was in contact with us about doing it too. A lot of people don't realize that and us just being ourselves and realized like.

00:40:18
Speaker 1: This one. I know, this sounds crazy. This is when rap.

00:40:23
Speaker 17: Music wasn't accepted by sports, Like when I was in high school, using the layout line and stuff like, they weren't playing rat I remember I.

00:40:33
Speaker 1: Was the DJ. I used to bring the tapes.

00:40:36
Speaker 17: You had to put the little tissue at the top of the tape like started right here because when I was in high school, Southwestern Carris One had a song called south Bronx and we were Southwest were like Southwest, South Southwest all BMF being their first coats on. It was crazy, it was it was nuts, you know. And they purposely come in middle of the first quarter, just fifty of them, white, first full list, three quarters, truck, jewels everything.

00:41:04
Speaker 1: They stopped the game. So that is where it came from for me.

00:41:08
Speaker 17: Like I was playing, like it's almost like above the rim, like I was playing. Yeah, so it was like slang crack rocker got a wicked jump shut.

00:41:19
Speaker 1: So it was like I was hooping.

00:41:21
Speaker 17: They was hustling, and like Detroit was on fire at that time. Pistons won back to backs, Dasmin won the Heist Man, the Tigers won the World Series. We were the Fab five, so it was a great time to be us. But I realized I personally we arrived. I went to Cameo Summer Jam early nineties and it was all of the top artists. And again this is before sports embraced rap. You used to hear who there it is, and what's my guy name? This is how Mantel Jeorge. Yeah, yeah, those are the only songs they played. Those are the only songs they played. And I'll never forget.

00:42:00
Speaker 1: Going to Will Smith. Yeah yeah, sure. Parents just don't understand.

00:42:07
Speaker 17: And I went to Cameo summer Jam after our freshman year and this one Hammer was the number one artists in the world and the Pistons were the first team to adopt you can't touch this. That's what brought rap to the NBA, which brought it to sports. And I remember there was so many artists TC, Deon Sanders was there, also all the Bears too, shore E Forty Spice One, Pete Rock, Ceo Smooths, everybody, everybody, MC light, It was everybody.

00:42:37
Speaker 1: And I was like trying to.

00:42:39
Speaker 17: Get in a little bit, you know how we do it whatever, strolling up. Then Louis Barrell Hammer Brothers.

00:42:44
Speaker 18: Like man, like, yeah, let me because Hammer was like a hundred of them every show. He then got a hundred of them, so.

00:42:56
Speaker 17: I got a chance to like and before I knew it, I was up on the stage and then during the intermissions of the show is like a basketball court and I was around my favorite artist. They go LLL, they go run, DMC, they go EPMD Naughty by Nation and they knew who I was.

00:43:13
Speaker 1: I was like, Yo, this is.

00:43:15
Speaker 17: Crazy, and I ended up being friends with them. E pm D gave me a skyt pager.

00:43:21
Speaker 1: You know what.

00:43:21
Speaker 17: I used to go to East Iceland when I was in college. There's a picture of me online when I got a Hurricane shirt on. I'm holding up a forty ounce like I was at I was at the EPMD studio when I took that picture. So that's when I felt like a ride.

00:43:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when I.

00:43:35
Speaker 17: Felt like the Five five a arride because the culture embraced us, because mainstream media didn't like us. So I look back at it now, they look at it like, oh with the Fab five. It's kind of like when I look at the career Muhammad Ali, like when he died or when he got Parkinson's seemed like he got embraced.

00:43:53
Speaker 1: That's what happened when he couldn't That's that's crazy. That's my idol.

00:43:56
Speaker 10: I said it to somebody when he couldn't talk, that's when they gave him his love.

00:44:00
Speaker 17: Like it's an iconic moment that he lit the torch in Atlanta. But that's one of my least favorite Muhammad Ali moments because that was not his biggest, that was not his best. We met him when we were in college. We went to his room, we did magic tricks for us. He gave us confidence, like don't let nobody muzzle y'all voices, or that he moved to Michigan. I got a chance to meet him a lot, and so we as athletes and as black people came a long way to expressing ourselves. And he was a trailblazer for that. Dion Sanders was another trailblazer for that. Anytime you tell yourself you great before they tell you you great, they don't.

00:44:40
Speaker 5: Like that, especially when you write, especially when.

00:44:45
Speaker 17: Exactly so it went down like that, What part did you pay in the swag?

00:44:50
Speaker 10: Like I know everybody had their own input, the bagging shorts of shoes you played.

00:44:55
Speaker 17: It's hard for me to like say it without people thinking I'm trying to make.

00:45:01
Speaker 1: It about me. But you was the fashionable one though I was the one that cared. I cared more, that's all.

00:45:10
Speaker 17: Juwan didn't. Jawan was like, no, I'm trying to ball. Johan's a professional. Juan was always ten years older than us.

00:45:18
Speaker 1: But the same age.

00:45:19
Speaker 17: But the same age, never had a not a fresh cut, always had a big gold tee, always had a crease in his pants. Like we all kept our originality. And so many times people talk about us all wearing bald heads.

00:45:32
Speaker 1: He ain't cut his hairball. He didn't know.

00:45:35
Speaker 17: He was like, I love y'all, I ain't cutting my hairball. I'm rather I ain't cutting my hairball. And so like, I started wanting to wear the shorts because Doug Smith Missouri, Steve Smith's Syracuse, Anderson Hunt, un l v Steve Smith, Michigan State. They used to all come home in the summer and bring me shorts, right, So I used to have those satin shorts down on my They get heavy when you start sweating in them, but they were so cold. So like, by the time we got to college, I'm like, y'all got a Nike contract.

00:46:10
Speaker 1: I know y'all can get us a longer shorts. That's really what it was.

00:46:14
Speaker 17: Bobbie Blayd, I remember his name, our equipment, Like, we want some longer shorts. And then the other thing, y'all know, Nike rep came in, Welcome to the school.

00:46:24
Speaker 1: Everything's great, man.

00:46:26
Speaker 17: He put on some power forward shoes, man, back up, power forward shoes.

00:46:30
Speaker 1: Back up.

00:46:31
Speaker 17: Yeah, we're not wearing them with a bow jacket. We we ain't wearing those high tops up to my car.

00:46:43
Speaker 1: I'm not wearing them.

00:46:45
Speaker 17: And so that's when the hurrachis came. They didn't even want us to wear them because they felt like it wasn't a basketball shoe because your ankles.

00:46:52
Speaker 1: Were out right.

00:46:53
Speaker 17: And so we wore them, and it's like you got to get your ankles taped before every practice, before every game for a lawsuit, Like okay, cool. And then we signed the a little wafers so we could wear those shoes. And that's where like the whole fashion thing with the shoes came from the ball heads.

00:47:11
Speaker 6: It was more like just solidarity, one for all, all for one.

00:47:15
Speaker 14: Whatever.

00:47:16
Speaker 1: The socks, Ray Jackson.

00:47:19
Speaker 17: Really yes, indeed, we were about to play in Texas. I forgot the first I forgot one of them Texas schools. And Ray's homeboy came to the hotel. Ray was like, da da dah, I've been traveling, bring me some socks. And he brought Ray a gray pair with blue Nike. And I was in the room playing Madden and Ray came in the room and he pulled out the socks. I'm like, oh, where you get them from? It's like you just got it for the mall. And then we all looked like they have some black So we went to the mall and I just think about this. They didn't have five pairs of black socks out an entire mall. The first game, I wore dress socks on top of my white sox. True story, and on dress socks. We went to the little stall. We put on our unis, covered up the socks.

00:48:18
Speaker 19: Da da.

00:48:19
Speaker 17: We ain't gonna snap off our pants until right before the tip off, so they won't tell us.

00:48:24
Speaker 12: No.

00:48:24
Speaker 1: You know how that worked.

00:48:25
Speaker 17: We do it prior gotta get it. We're gonna shut it down, so we're gonna make sure can't shut it down. So that that's how we did it.

00:48:38
Speaker 1: That's dope. Yeah, oh Rice, that's what he's playing.

00:48:44
Speaker 3: Now.

00:48:44
Speaker 1: I love him.

00:48:45
Speaker 17: He should be in the Hall of Fame. Three final, four US National Championship. He should be in the Hall of Fame. Did great with San Diego State, brought their program back to life. Brian Dutcher, who now coaching, was the lead recruiters. Juwan signed with him first. Now their head coach. He was giving our tickets on campus. Now they got a real program. He should be in the Hall of Fame. He's got many championships as Jim Beahan and my guy in Michigan.

00:49:10
Speaker 1: State, who I love. I mean, he got many championships. Is done like he deserved it. What's your relationship with Web?

00:49:19
Speaker 5: We touched on it in Atlanta when we had him recently disintroducted the Hall of Fame.

00:49:25
Speaker 1: Saw that shout out, But what's your relationship with Web?

00:49:27
Speaker 17: I love Web and I'm almost sure, especially since Juwan just re signed that I'll see him in a arbor.

00:49:34
Speaker 1: I'm back living in a d and.

00:49:36
Speaker 17: I see he just did it something incredible. Donation to cannabis and al killing him in Detroit too, shot the viola. I just love how strip clubs and we used to be taboo even though everybody else was doing it. Now we started doing It's great to see us getting profit off of it. And so I believe we be alt a break bread this year or whatever.

00:49:59
Speaker 1: At a game. I'm glad I got a chance to be there. When he got inducted in the Hall of Fame.

00:50:04
Speaker 17: I'm glad he got a chance to be on the show right after I lost my mom, and so we're goodie. I have no problems, no ill will with my brother. Of course, we need to probably sit down and talk about some dotsormize and cross some teas or whatever. But you know, I'm taking the bullet for see.

00:50:22
Speaker 1: Well that's my brother.

00:50:30
Speaker 5: Welcome to the show, legendar Eric Dickerson. In a January twenty twenty two interview with The New York Times, you discussed possibly suffering from CTE.

00:50:39
Speaker 1: Where are you at with that? Is that something that's.

00:50:41
Speaker 19: Oh yeah, yeah, of course. I mean I'm not the same guy I wasn't you know, even after I retired.

00:50:47
Speaker 1: You know, you don't know.

00:50:47
Speaker 19: I mean, like right now, I got I got the own sense of Parkinson's. I gotta take him badication of Parkinson's. I'm gonna tell you this's the sad thing about this, this whole deal is that with the NFL, and look, I love playing I just love playing football. And the NFL makes you hate the NFL where they treat the players, especially black players, like a lot of you probably never.

00:51:09
Speaker 5: Heard you ever heard of race nor me? Yeah, is that they said that they raced on the black rationed on us break that down though, because I remember reading about that.

00:51:16
Speaker 19: So what they'll do, what they'll say is, okay, we'll take the black player and white player. The white player was already smart. The black player was not smart already. So if he comes down, the white players should get paid by the black players shouldn't get because he was already dumb. Basically, he was already kind of dumb.

00:51:31
Speaker 1: And this wasn't even that long ago though.

00:51:32
Speaker 19: Oh this was only this was like five years ago, and they and they said that we won't do it again. I mean, it's like when when we get hurt, you know, it's it's it's like like right now, you know it's in the case with them for for for the Parkinson's and CTE and we all get we get so manys, they get denied. Give a great example, my friend Christian a choir Nightmare, were just playing. I was teasing a by the the other day because he got that accent and so he's going for a C.

00:52:05
Speaker 3: T E.

00:52:05
Speaker 19: KSE and and the race Norman thing came in saying that, well he's Nigerian, so maybe he couldn't speak good an he don't understand crazy. I mean, I was teasing. I said I was teaving. I said, maybe they're right, but but then that's just some of the stuff.

00:52:22
Speaker 1: Man.

00:52:23
Speaker 19: It's great game, but it's the way they treat the black players. Man, it's horrible. I just got to say it. Man, it's it's it's a bad look. And not not everybody, but it's just a bad look. It really is.

00:52:34
Speaker 5: I mean, to this day, to think that's still the I mean, obviously we can see what the world is going through, but to see that kind of thinking, in that thought in in twenty twenty and beyond is insane.

00:52:46
Speaker 19: Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you this, U, I can ask the question. Yes, okay, y'all health, health care, yes, life, life, life and family to kids, five caps our kids. Y'all got a good pension and everything. Okay, let me just give you an example. Let me give an example for football. Okay. Deacon Jones. Deacon Jones passed me about ten years ago something like that. So I went to see d wait before he was in the hospital for it was sick. And if me and him talk, you said, what's your pension? I said, Man, I don't know. I say, you can probably be what fifteen hundred a month? He said, you know what I get, Eric, I played fifteen years. I get two hundred fifty dollars a month. That's what I get, two hundred fifty fund dollars. I take it so they can have it. We have no health care like players like me. I pay for my own health care. You have to lead you pay for your own healthcare. Now the players have healthcare five years, that's it.

00:53:33
Speaker 1: And while they're in the league of post career.

00:53:35
Speaker 19: Post career like say, say you retired thirty, you got this shift for five years.

00:53:38
Speaker 1: That's it. And this your shoe is not your family or nobody else.

00:53:41
Speaker 19: No, how many years you got to play to good pinsion, you got to play four years and three games?

00:53:45
Speaker 1: What is our five? Yeah?

00:53:48
Speaker 19: But the pincher now it's better. It's better for the players now. But it's horrible. When I say horrible for us, oh man, it's it's seven hundred dollars. Eight guys who played like fourteen years right now and played in my air like the nineties, eighties and nineties, you know, a thousand dollars a month. Chris Paon Coyrie did a great job. Y. They went back and did it with all the older guys. That's still alive. But they did it for the older guys. They all getting on the same insurance. We got all get the older guys getting in now. Man, they switched it up because PAWND is really really sad they're all getting.

00:54:19
Speaker 1: Then say this here, and I'm.

00:54:20
Speaker 19: Not trying to, you know, make it you know bad like talk about the NFL like it. It's some good things they've done, some bad things they've done. I did an interview with the white with this white reporter and he says, Eric, you said you probably know I'm white, said, I can tell you white. Yeah, I'm talking on the phone with him. He said, let me tell you this, didn't tell it. I'm gonna tell you what that not what I what. I don't know what i've heard and what I know as a reporter. I said, okay. He said, what's the NFL eighty percent black? I say a seven eighty percent black. He said, now let me say this. I said, okay. He said, if the NFL was eighty percent of white, y'all have great insurance. I would have great healthcare.

00:54:55
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, I know that, no secret.

00:54:58
Speaker 19: That's just sad to say that. And he said he said and that's what he said. He said, isn't that's sad I have to say it like that. I said, yeah, but it's sad to say it.

00:55:05
Speaker 1: It's the truth.

00:55:05
Speaker 5: I got a question in your time, was it more the league or was it more of the good old boys club of the owners.

00:55:11
Speaker 1: It's still a good old boys club. Man.

00:55:13
Speaker 19: They didn't have no black owners. They're not having no no no. Like I think Magic owns. They're not having you no black owned. Yeah, they're not having it. I got it. I think a couple of you guys on football team. Another guy that was trying to buy a football team, and he was talking about I said, let me tell you something. I said, you want to me. I said, don't go in there and say you're trying to help the play us. He said, I said that. I said, you screwed up. He said I could tell. He said, I could tell, I screwed I said, you don't say that you're trying to have to play us. It's not about the players. It's about the money they can make. That's insane.

00:55:47
Speaker 10: They'll give a couple of athletes and rappers like a little percentage of the teams.

00:55:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can point take pictures zero zero yeah, zero zero one no full ownership what nah A good thing to me.

00:56:01
Speaker 5: And I don't wish that I know one of that good old boys your generation.

00:56:05
Speaker 1: Those guys are so passing.

00:56:07
Speaker 19: On yep, but it's still going. But they passed their kids really good that mentality, don't least it's still it's still a good old boys.

00:56:22
Speaker 5: We have none other then our brother to yo onto the show. This stephen a situation has kind of been ruined of late.

00:56:29
Speaker 1: I saw that you got brower right.

00:56:31
Speaker 5: I saw there was an initial situation happened back with during the Kaepernick thing, and you guys got.

00:56:36
Speaker 1: Into it and in the world saw that.

00:56:38
Speaker 5: I don't know how it kind of recirculated, but it has Steven Asmith one on his podcast and kind of said his reasoning and his piece behind it. You're here now and and and we want to give you the floor to us say your piece. Before you say your piece, you know, we got love for both of y'all.

00:56:51
Speaker 1: Show. I want to know, is there any any light at the end of the tunnel.

00:56:55
Speaker 2: No, I don't I don't think because he's used his platform really kind of to really tarnish Just tell you a character, you know, what I mean, who I am as a person, you know, I mean, So regardless of however he started his monologue and his thing with his his podcast trying to build me up to break me down, we all see through that, you know, I mean, and all the people he's talking about that has reached out to them just that and the other from gms to players and coaches. Who gives a who gives it? To be quite honest, because I've had I've had people you know that have reached out to me, players as well, you know, and some of the people that he thinks are cool with him, they're not cool with him. So before I go on my diatribe, Steve may can't be a solitical because I'm here with these guys, but I will address some of those things.

00:57:40
Speaker 1: Where George bro talk us so.

00:57:42
Speaker 5: So so the initial situation, to backtrack, the initial situation was during the Kapernick situation where he was trying to come back. Uh, there was an incident where you m and Max were talking and you said Max acts a little blacker than you whatever, and that kind of got the thing going. So what happened, So from what.

00:58:00
Speaker 2: Happened, uh, and even at the clip like again, you said a resurface. It researched resurface because I guess. He did an interview with Joe Budden and he explained why he didn't like Max or he didn't like working with Max, and so obviously Max end up getting fire blah blah blah blah. So fans took to that interview and they brought up, okay, well this is why Too said what he said. So I kept getting tagged on the video and my phone was like, yo, what's going on. So I saw the comments of what have you and I just I haven't backed down from anything. I just said facts and just left it at that. He took offence to that. Then he went on his podcast and said that I posted it, which I didn't, And even in my response to that, and I'm like genius, I retweeted it. I didn't actually post it. I didn't go out of my way to go bring everything up. It was only a response to that interview that he did with Joe Budden about Max that all the fans you know, brought it up. So he took offense you know, to that, and so that's where all all resurfaced.

00:59:06
Speaker 5: Now he I got a chance to see what he said. I went back in Washington. He said something about a lawsuit at ESPN or something.

00:59:13
Speaker 2: Right, so right, so right, So I guess what there was something going on. I guess we were talking about the Kaepernick situation, and somehow there was a text exchange between me and him and stephen A and he on air he mentioned something about the text, which I didn't give him consent to do.

00:59:34
Speaker 1: I had you, but that's that's one rule.

00:59:38
Speaker 10: Somebody takes you, or any type of conversation takes you, do not share it on social media.

00:59:43
Speaker 2: None of that, bro, You especial don't know exactly. So I didn't take the honest I didn't go out of my way to go file a lawsuit. I had an attorney to reach out to me, like, YO, that's not right. It's copyright infringe with something along those lines.

00:59:59
Speaker 5: Oh so someone just reached an attorney came and found you about it, and he said that he want to pursue.

01:00:03
Speaker 2: This is what happens. Like he can't do that. So it wasn't really him. It was I looked at ESPN. ESPN has dogged me over the years, mischaracterized me, having people having misunderstandings about who I am. You know, whether whether you know as far as my characters is concerned, everybody's talking about I'm arrogant, I'm selfish. Of course, I've had disagreements with some players, some coaches, but who hasn't.

01:00:26
Speaker 1: Right now the question, I do not to cut you off. I don't because I don't want want you to finish.

01:00:30
Speaker 5: I do remember he was one of the back so before all the hit you guys were cool then because I remember he used to stand up for you a lot. That was the one thing he used to do back in the day before I.

01:00:39
Speaker 2: Think everybody realized stephen A was cool with a lot of things back in the day. But as time has or passed, a lot of people have a different opinion about who stephen was then and who he is now. I'm one of those people. So regardless of that, me and steven A, we ain't buddy buddy, you know what I mean. Whether he talks good or bad about me on his show, whether it's objective or subjective, that's his job.

01:01:03
Speaker 1: I don't.

01:01:04
Speaker 2: I didn't know stephen A prior to me. I guess our initial meeting. I guarantee he knew about me because of my plate before I knew about him. So we're not We're not buddy buddy at the end of the day. And so again back to my point, they're trying to reached out. He said, this is what this is what we're want to do. He went after, Yes, he submitted the file or the claim to ESPN, and that's how how things started. But for me, for him to say any mood or insinuate that it's a money grab or something like that, that's that's that's that's that's not cool, you know, mean to insinuate, oh, I'm broke this and nothing the other, because these are these are certain things. Like I said that, I it is personal, you know what I mean. It's no, it's no secret I had. I was represented by Drew and Jason Rosenhouse. They referred me to Pro Sports Financial, who was managed, who's a financial advisor in Jeff Rubin. It's public knowledge, bro I got taking advantage of They stole a lot of my money. Anybody knows me. I didn't just go blow my money, you know what I mean? So yet, do I have the means that I had back then? Absolutely not. But for him to go on TV and in sinuate certain these things that I did X y Z and I'm desperate. That's not cool, bro, I'm not I'm not.

01:02:20
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm not.

01:02:21
Speaker 2: Gonna let that slide. So at the end of the day, and I told him, I called him. I told him, was Yo, keep that same energy. You're gonna call me a sorry ass and I'm pathetic things of that. Now, I'm trifling when if I ever come across and keep that same energy, it's not a threat. But you're not gonna use that platform to downgrade me as a person in what I've accomplished for your benefit because you have a platform to do that and then talk about and bring up all these these these top named people or high qualified I guess in his his name to doman me, you mentioned the Donaryannas of Brian Dawkins, the Primes.

01:02:58
Speaker 6: You know what I mean?

01:02:59
Speaker 2: Uh, Shannon Sharp, you know talking about gms and players too.

01:03:03
Speaker 6: Don't go after him like that.

01:03:04
Speaker 1: What have I ever done?

01:03:06
Speaker 3: Then?

01:03:06
Speaker 2: Holding up papers in his podcast like he got something, like he got something on me and he's gonna expose me, expose.

01:03:12
Speaker 14: Me for what?

01:03:13
Speaker 6: I urge him?

01:03:14
Speaker 2: Do I give him permission to expose me? Because I've never done anything. You don't have anything on me. You got the world looking at me crazy like you got something on me. So if you do, please let it be known.

01:03:26
Speaker 5: The one thing I will say about athletes that we don't really have too many skeletons like is front. All of our is front and centers. So I get what you're saying with that. So I mean, is there anything else you kind of want to Like I said, I want to make sure you get that out or anything else off your chest when it comes to that.

01:03:46
Speaker 2: No, I mean again, I just I appreciate the platform because, like I said, he had the opportunity to sit in front of his in front of his audience, his millions and subscribers, you know, like you said, he's soliloquy to share his thoughts with all the heroes or whatever the case be. But for me, I wanted to share that with everybody to give them some context as to what he's saying is not accurate, it's not totally true. For him to try to build me up and then bash me and and and attack my character, that's that's not gonna fly with me. I want the same platform, like I said, to sit down and really share my story and let everybody know, like, yo, he's not who we think he is. And Steven A, he's walking around like just because ESPN has pattered in his pockets with some millions, he's walking around like he's up, like he's an athlete, like he got that kind of cachet. And then, like I said, mentioning guys that obviously I think highly of talking about Dion and Shannon and these guys I come across with, you know, on a regular you know what I mean. That's not cool to be name dropping, you know what I mean? Because now I'm around these guys and I'm like, Okay, well, how do they really feel about me?

01:04:51
Speaker 6: You know what I mean?

01:04:51
Speaker 2: How do they think about me? You know what I mean. So that's that's that's where I am with it, you know what I mean. So, as he said in this podcast, we don't ever have to speak again, never ever. But make no mistake about it. I don't try to be no badass, no nothing, bro.

01:05:06
Speaker 6: Anybody know me.

01:05:07
Speaker 2: I'm easy going, I'm cool. I've kept my nose clean because I was raised the right way, bro. Right, But you're not finna sit up here and try to bash me. I attack my character in front of millions and sit on ESPN with your compadres or what have you and act like you dad and you this and that and the other. That's not gonna fly with me. But like I told him, keep that same energy. And I'm like saying, I'm not condoning nobody, but you're not gonna disrespect me, you know what I mean, Because when it comes to the player that ain't got that has nothing to do with that, that has nothing to do with this, And you know what I mean, it's me for me, like I said, it's personal. So at this point, like I said, at this point in time, that's that's how I am. That's where I am with you anytime as a man, though, anytime as a man you feel disrespected as far as your character or your integrity, you should feel a certain type of work.

01:05:53
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Any man should and you should respond unless.

01:05:58
Speaker 10: You're not a man, you know what I'm saying, and and unless you don't stand on wars or respect.

01:06:03
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.

01:06:04
Speaker 10: And I'm and for me personally, any any time something that's talked about in private and it shared public, it's gonna cause a problem, right, like we like Mats said, especially, it's not an understanding before that, you know what I'm saying, So, uh, A lot a lot of things that's that from my premiere in the way it happened, I feel like it could be a conversation between y'all because with the media knowing this and all this stuff being out, it's a lot of stuff that been said that ain't true too, you know what I'm saying, And it's lives that it's been insinuated, right, you know what I'm saying. Because everybody's on the outside looking in read So that's why I feel y'all said down. You know what I'm saying, y'all might have to get an in box for a minute, so what or we could just bring some weed too, you know what I'm saying. If y'all got a box from man they talk about that's how we stood in the hood. We got disagreements with, scrap it out. You know what I'm saying, that we go back to the store by kid together.

01:06:54
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.

01:06:54
Speaker 1: That's that's how we grew up as men. It's gonna be different.

01:06:57
Speaker 10: I get that, you know what I'm saying, But for me, personally, I feel like with all the other shit around it to being out in social media, that's making it harder for y'all to get to understand this my person.

01:07:06
Speaker 2: But to your point, and like I said, to add some clarity to things, like I said, and some things are misleading, as if he and I and I went back and somebody sent me a clip of some of the things that he said, and he's like, Oh, he's not a liar. He's not this, he's not that. And again, the thing is the insinuation that you know, I'm doing stuff for money. You know, like I told you, I don't have the same amount of money because I got taken. There ain't nobody business too. But but he that's what I'm saying, he made it everybody business.

01:07:31
Speaker 20: Now.

01:07:31
Speaker 2: He got people looking at me sideways. And then even with the lawsuit thing, I showed you guys, he admittedly in the text from my from our textas change, He's like, oh, I'm mistaken your your text for a tweet. Yeah, that's what the attorney was referring to. He admitted that I showed you guys that that's in our text conversation. I ain't got no reason to lie about nothing and I ain't got nothing to hide. So for him to come out initially when he saw the whole facts thing in response to that, somebody he gonna expose me, expose me for what I urge you to expose me. But at this end of the day, like I said, he feels the way he feels. I feel the way I feel. Like I told you, we're not Betty. But I don't never have to talk to Steven that again in it in my entire life. He can sit on ESPN do what it use all the big words he wants to to impress everybody. That doesn't impress me now. Like I said, he's used that platform to tear some black athletes down, and even I'm included that you try to build him up, tear down with your words, this and that and the other. You're monologue, bro, I don't I can see past all of that. But you're not finna just do it to me. A lot of guys are not gonna.

01:08:45
Speaker 1: Say anything now. I feel, I feel you.

01:08:47
Speaker 10: I mean shit, he still I just the way he talked about me with the bawse, So my boy, I ain't ever brought it up to him, but he dogged me.

01:08:55
Speaker 1: I didn't let it go because I'm live still but but.

01:08:58
Speaker 2: Doing right but again right, but those things like you said him, yeah what he done right? But like I said, you know, I said, I can look at this camera just like he looks into the camera and talk to America. And when I tell you, when I'm serious about that, keep the steam and keep that same energy, my guy, keep that same energy and I put that on Alazon Black, my dude, keep that same energy that you did with your podcast. Keep to keep it the same. That's all I gotta say.

01:09:28
Speaker 5: I think before it move one, Jack, I want to come in both of us because we both tried to try to try to go to peaceful right here and.

01:09:33
Speaker 2: I just can't believe it and that ship for us to do it, it don't work. It's just crouds. Yeah, it's just it's smoke.

01:09:49
Speaker 4: Welcome to the show, Pat McAfee.

01:09:50
Speaker 5: You spoke the name and called out someone a suit that you felt like was kind of yeah for real, Yeah, I mean the curR to do that, and you got a lot of you already had respect, but even more respect for doing that. Has there been any backlash, any conversation, like because like you said, there is a give and take and as given and a tug between what people hung their hats on for years and made a lot of money and what is coming and what what it's going to be.

01:10:17
Speaker 7: I don't know, I don't know if there was any conversations that happened behind uh obviously, So you know, like I thought that was a warning shot to that guy. You know, I didn't even think that was direct. Yeah, because I'm the I'm the executive producer of my show. I report directly to Jimmy and Bob, So I'm not really viewing anybody as like I saw everybody, Like Pat calls out his boss, I'm gonna motherfucking boss.

01:10:48
Speaker 1: What do we know?

01:10:49
Speaker 7: Like what do we jim p we talk to Jimmy, Pataro or Bob Iger, Like is that who we're talking about? Because those are people that could technically be described as my boss, and like Burke Magnus as well, and I have a great relationship with him. But I think even Burke would say like yeah, like we have a good relate, like we were talking like this as opposed to like this, And so that was just a warning shop to I thought a person that was you know, at the same, which is hilarious because he's the former president of the place. I guess a lot of people, we had a lot of fear of them. I did not like, I do not have I that guy. That guy left me sitting in his office for forty five minutes. No showed me when I was supposed to have a meeting with him, right when five years ago, six years ago, whatever show? No showed Yeah, wow, yeah, so you remember that, what's that? And you remember that it's things a fucking elephant.

01:11:41
Speaker 1: Brand, buddy?

01:11:42
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I am Yeah, I got everybody's yeah. He Also he also banned all my friends from coming on my show, so there was h There was a ban of ESPN talent on my show on YouTube that came directly from him, which so much show that I started hashtag ESPN stinks the day and everybody got banned from my show, you know, only trended for like eight nine hours or something like that. And then that's the next day is when I met Jimmy Patarro. Jimmy Patarro called me and said like, hey, how do we you know, what's the deal? And I told him about you guys are banning my friends from coming on my show, Matt Hasselback who worked at ESPN, Jeff Pass and worked at ESPN. Dan Orlovski worked at ESPN. All these people that I've known since before they got into ESPN. Like they're not even allowed to come on my podcast or whatever or my YouTube show. You guys banned it. So like that guy was not a fan of me or our operation for a long time. So then whenever ESPN signs us and he runs sports Center and our show is now in place of Sports Center at noon. I'm a fan of Sports Center. We all watched Sports Center.

01:12:50
Speaker 1: I grew up on.

01:12:53
Speaker 7: But there became like a war almost from behind scenes from like Sports Center people and like people that have been in ESPN a long time against US coming in and taking their jobs and all this other shit. And I didn't see it like that. We were like pumped that we made it to the big leagues. Like, hey, I'm pumped we're on the Worldwide Leap. Like that's how I viewed it. And this is what I'm talking about, playing a checkers player, Like get the ESPN deal done. I'm like, this is awesome, Like we joined the ESPN team, so lucky to be here. We get access and then immediately it's like, this guy sucks. This guy's ruining ESPN, and it's not coming for people outside of ESPN. It was coming from people within ESPN. And I did not expect that at all. So I immediately like, okay, I'm in war, Like that's what if. That's what we're doing.

01:13:37
Speaker 1: We're in war.

01:13:38
Speaker 7: And then once you start learning about how shit's going behind scenes, things that are being said to people, things that are being leaked, the timing in which they're being leaked, it's like, oh, they're trying to kill me. Like they're trying to They're trying to make our show impossible to advertise with, They're trying to make sure people don't watch our show. So like, as I started learning that, I'm like, all right, well that's not gonna I don't know how this has gone in the past with other people, but yeah, this particular white trash kid from Pittsburgh, like, hey, suits, this ain't this is not how this is gonna go. So that was just a warning shot I didn't that wasn't even like supposed.

01:14:11
Speaker 15: To be uh.

01:14:12
Speaker 7: And then obviously it goes big and I heard from this is no lie no less than like forty people that have worked at ESPN or used to work at ESPN, and they were like, thank you for saying what you said. And I was like, well, if I really crafted a statement about that, I mean, I could have said something much better. But I also did not appreciate the thing I didn't think about once again, Checkers player. I did not expect the backlash afterwards. Like Burke Magnus just became the president of Content at ESPN. I think he has a great vision for what the future of sports media should look like. He was a big part of us joining ESPN. People were attacking Burke because it made him look sloppy, because it's inside the building. People are attacking Jimmy because it looked sloppy. And that was something that I did not think about. I was very apologetic about, like I didn't mean to take down my allies or make allies look bad in the whole thing. But I genuinely did not expect it to get as big as it did, because I didn't think I said anything that was like that.

01:15:09
Speaker 6: Crazy, you know, or.

01:15:13
Speaker 7: Like I'm a pretty good talker, you know, I'm a pretty good promo cutter. Like if I really wanted to saw motherfucker down, Like I thought I could have done it in a much bigger way, and I did not, So I was actually pretty proud of myself. I was like, look at me, I'm an adult. And then it got loud. I'm an I'm an adult, and it got real loud, got real loud. But yeah, that'll be me forever, and it'll be a gift in the curse.

01:15:35
Speaker 1: We appreciate and respect it. Welcome to the show, Dwight Howard.

01:15:47
Speaker 12: We just to have a chance to really build it, build it like we wanted to, you know what I'm saying. And it wasn't meant to happen, you know, looking back on and I wish it happened, but it wasn't meant to happen.

01:15:58
Speaker 5: To the relationship with him. I got a chance to play with him and know his mindset and know how he moved. But then got a chance to play with you and know how you're serious but you could smile and laugh and he's not like.

01:16:09
Speaker 1: That at all.

01:16:10
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, talk to us about that and and was there it ever an understanding or what was it like working with him because you only got a year with him.

01:16:18
Speaker 12: I don't think it was the understanding that we could have that we could yeah, with time because there was so many expectations. And I'm going through my own ship with trying to recover from this back surgery and then tearing my labor room, and it's like, man, how do I deal with somebody that I grew up watching as a child. But now we teammates. We just played each other in the finals, right literally, so like we rated this rivalry like I want to beat his ass, but now we teammates. So it was like, shit, I can't do that no more. H But it's Kobe Bryant. You know what I'm saying. He don't don't I want to get his ass back?

01:16:59
Speaker 1: Don't you tough? Bro?

01:17:00
Speaker 4: Ship, I forgot about that.

01:17:02
Speaker 3: You really had to do all that?

01:17:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, because that was that was That was for real.

01:17:06
Speaker 1: That was one of the one.

01:17:07
Speaker 4: But for real, you didn't got other people, but for real, that was one of the ones.

01:17:10
Speaker 1: Like the whole time he was over here, laid back.

01:17:13
Speaker 3: Yeah you know, oh he talked on you and Ship, that.

01:17:16
Speaker 1: Was that was one of the one.

01:17:18
Speaker 5: You didn't pay people back one hundred times worse, but that was one of the ones we did.

01:17:24
Speaker 12: I see it now out of my ass. But I was young, and really I was. What happened was I didn't think he was gonna dunk because I ain't know he was. I ain't know the rookie year of second it was my rookie year, so I thought he was finna come over and do like a pull up on the last I was that was eight.

01:17:46
Speaker 1: Kobe, Yeah, so you he was dunking everything. I didn't know until he found out he was dunking everything.

01:17:53
Speaker 12: He split. It was Pat Garrett and Deshaun Stevens. He split the pick and roll and I jump over, come through like that like I was gone. I don't know what the funk I was thinking. And so then I closed my eyes too, and all I heard was booming.

01:18:10
Speaker 8: Oh, I said, oh.

01:18:17
Speaker 12: So then uh, Brian Grant Uh, he said, welcome to the league, young fella.

01:18:23
Speaker 1: I said, oh shit, Kobe got me.

01:18:26
Speaker 12: And then right after that, my homeboy, it was my birthday, so he made a cake with Kobe dunking on me. That's everywhere I was at. I got seeing the picture of Kobe dunking on me, and it was like me and Kobe always there's some bullshit. We always been connected. Every picture out of seat. I'm in the background, like, fuck you, Kobe dunking the ass Now I'm in all your pictures in the back like but yeah, man, rest of peace.

01:18:55
Speaker 1: Man.

01:18:55
Speaker 12: We had some great times man, even on his teammates.

01:19:00
Speaker 5: This was about some of the cool times because it wasn't always He's not like that, and you know, it was definite.

01:19:04
Speaker 4: I know that I wasn't there, but I know you guys have some good times.

01:19:07
Speaker 12: I used just always mess with him how before the game when they introduced to him, how he would try to chew gum but it was no gum in his mouth, but he was acting like he had gone like how Michael Jordan would come out. So I'm like, yo, are you trying to act like Jordan? No question, no gum in his mouth, and he's just sitting on the bench.

01:19:28
Speaker 1: Dwight, You're ready to play? Yeah, yeah, yeah tonight.

01:19:33
Speaker 12: You know, like Dad, this kbe is crazy. But then off the court, we had some times together in Vegas where you know, we had some parties and were just chilling and it's just you see COVID at a different light, you know what I'm saying, And we just talking and kicking the shit, you know, and I remember going to his house one time and he liked, uh, that movie pitch Perfect, and so I'm like, he's like, yo, you.

01:20:02
Speaker 1: Seen that movie pitch Perfect.

01:20:04
Speaker 12: And I'm like, yeah, I like that movie.

01:20:06
Speaker 1: He like, yeah, I like it too. I'm like, get the fuck out of here.

01:20:09
Speaker 12: You like no pitch Perfect.

01:20:10
Speaker 3: I'm like, ain't no way.

01:20:11
Speaker 8: I'm thinking you watch all crazy ass type movies killing people.

01:20:15
Speaker 1: But you like pitch Perfect.

01:20:17
Speaker 12: Y'all just watching that shit last night, bro, It's one of my favorite movies.

01:20:20
Speaker 1: Just become best friend? Did we just become best friends?

01:20:22
Speaker 12: It was crazy, like, you know, just as a kid watching Kobe play and then coming out of high school, Kobe dunking on you. Then you're in the Olympics with Kobe, and then you on Kobe's team, and then y'all arguing.

01:20:39
Speaker 1: With each other.

01:20:40
Speaker 12: All that is still even a dream. Just like I don't care what people say, like me and Kobe connected, I got hello. I look back at all the pitches I got to him and just me and him together, just talking, all the shit that done happened between me and him, like the personal stories that I ain't gonna say old camera, Like all that is like I can see that. So when people saying, oh, Kobe ain't fuck with you or this happened, I just laughed, like, you know, people don't really know. And then we played together. We didn't work out, but that happens.

01:21:13
Speaker 1: You know.

01:21:14
Speaker 12: It wasn't meant for us to win together like that, but I get I got a chance to see him in so many it's like different eras of Kobe, like my high school era playing against seeing him play, watching him in the Olympics together, playing against him on the same team, and then watching him be a dad and training all the different women, canvas park and all that, so you know, just seeing all that and then when he passed man, it really it really broke me down, Like you know, I'll never forget how it all happened. We just played in Philly the night before Brown had broke his record, some to scoring record or whatever. So I remember just sitting down thinking about, you know, Kobe scoring all them points, and then and then Lebrun coming up and scoring all these points, and I was like, you know what, it's always good to tell people why they're alive, you know, how you appreciate them and stuff like that. So I sat up there on the bench, and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna tell Lebron, like, that's a great accomplishment all so, I'm proud of you.

01:22:27
Speaker 1: I've been playing against you since we was fifteen.

01:22:30
Speaker 12: So I went over there and told him that, went back to the room and we started talking about Kobe and how many points he scored and how he dunked on me and all this stuff. And then we get on the plane and we're flying back and my phone is blowing up and everybody's sleep. So I wake up and I look and said Kobe died. I'm like, get the fuck out of here. And so I'm looking around everybody knocked out, and I'm like, this can't be real. So I go on Instagram and I just see a whole bunch of messages Kobe died. And then I go wake up Boogie and I'm like, yo, look at this. He's like Yo, what the fuck? So I wake up ad and Lebron. I started waking like, yo, bro, Kobe died, and so I'm like, Yo, this can't be for real.

01:23:25
Speaker 1: Go to the back.

01:23:27
Speaker 12: Everybody else start waking him up, just start crying. I go to the bathroom and I just start crying for like twenty minutes in the bathroom. I can't believe it. And I started thinking about his daughters, like, damn, I ain't.

01:23:40
Speaker 1: Gonna have no father.

01:23:41
Speaker 12: Then one of his daughters died. I just kept thinking about that, and then we got off the plane, and shit, it was just so hard after that to even just fathom the whole situation. Then this man was my teammate, you know what I'm saying, So it's different for a lot of people. Was like, man, we grew up watching this person, but I hadn't actually been on a plane with this man. You know what I'm saying. We don't practice together. We kick the ship with each other, themn they're about to go, blows with each other, you know what I'm saying. So now it's like you find out this person ain't there no more.

01:24:13
Speaker 1: So, yeah, it was.

01:24:16
Speaker 5: It was really really kind of piggybacking off that you were one of the rare people that got a chance to play with Kobe. Play gets him in the finals, play with them, play with Lebron, win with Lebron. Not to compare them to but are there any what are some of the similarities or contract Like.

01:24:36
Speaker 8: I just think they're two different. They're two it's two different, They're two different people, you know what I'm saying.

01:24:43
Speaker 12: Kobe's I always felt like Kobe was like Batman, you know what I'm saying, Like he just this by himself, dark Knight.

01:24:53
Speaker 1: But yeah, he that's Kobe.

01:24:54
Speaker 8: And then you know, Lebron's like Captain America career real, that's that's like, that's like Lebron.

01:25:01
Speaker 12: So Lebron is always he wants everybody to be around, you know what I'm saying. He want to have fun, He want to dance full of games and put on his music. And Kobe is just locked in. He don't say nothing. You know, he got the basketball and he dribbling the heavy ball before the whole the game. So as far as skills, I think I think Kobe like is the most skilled out of all the players as far as pure skill shooting, being able to what you know, it's not even close to me. Yeah, I'm just thinking about everything, just thinking about it, like he can do all that, like everything Jordan did. I felt like he just multiplied it. Yeah, like people mad at him for doing it, Like, man, why like you don't never try to break the wheel, you you see what works, and then you use that and make it work for you. So that's what Kobe did, and he did it with the best player ever. Like he did everything he did and made it better. And you know, even watching him practice, like some things that he was doing, I was like, why is he doing it? Like one day I saw him getting his fingers stretched. I'm like, why is he getting his finger stretched? I just saw the lady doing this for a whole like hour, and I guess it was when he shot his jump shot so it be smooth every time and when he So it's just like little things like that, like where did he learn that from? It was just crazy to see. But then Lebron, he just got the whole package. He can pass, he can post up, he's big, He's like Magic Johnson on steroids.

01:26:47
Speaker 1: He should be the logo who Lebron?

01:26:52
Speaker 4: Oh all around?

01:26:54
Speaker 10: I don't think we've seen anybody logo better all around?

01:26:58
Speaker 1: He said, Lebron should be the logo. While I'm not all.

01:27:01
Speaker 10: If you're talking about basketball, people tell kids today, yeah, Michael Johann is the best. But if I had to tell you to look at one player, go look at Lebron James everybody's telling their kid that because he does everything right on and.

01:27:13
Speaker 1: Off the court, you can't miss with Lebron. So what about Steph. He's not six eight to sixty that can do it all. That's broke all the records.

01:27:24
Speaker 3: Yeah he's not.

01:27:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, they both get to beat though, step can get the beat.

01:27:29
Speaker 12: Too, But Steph, I don't know. It's just that man, Steph Like, but a lot of kids he step changed the game. Yeah, no question, generation, no question, step changed the game. Very few people did that. Yeah, so like, shoot, we have Lebron and stuff on it.

01:27:45
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm just you know, I'm just like, for what what Steph is unbelievable, But the total aspect of a basketball player and what she's supposed to do as a basketball player, and how you're career career is supposed to look when you finished.

01:27:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, Raj, bro that's that there.

01:28:02
Speaker 1: That's that there. That man, Yeah, that came. I ain't mad at that.

01:28:08
Speaker 5: You mentioned earlier, uh not wanting to go to the Lakers because of the Shack comparisons, and you already started in Orlando and he jumped the Lakers and you weren't trying to do that and ended up happening. You and him kind of had a friendly then I felt like he kind of did some personal and kind of took it a little bit more serious. And again, knowing you fun, energetic kind of person, where is that at? What did you think when you first started hearing like, damn, does Shack not like me?

01:28:36
Speaker 1: Or like? What? Thought it was crazy?

01:28:39
Speaker 8: And I was thinking you want to fight or something like because every time it was like something on TV and somebody say something, No, I don't think though. No the Lakers got five hall of him?

01:28:54
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, only four, there's not one. Well, don't put them in there.

01:28:59
Speaker 20: No, don't do that.

01:29:01
Speaker 8: So I'm like, damn, like every time he said something about Dwhite And for.

01:29:05
Speaker 12: Me, like you know, I like to do voices. So I feel everybody for saying they mom, it don't matter who it is. It ain't me doing it because I'm I dislike you. It's just me trying to make everybody laugh.

01:29:15
Speaker 8: So if he took it that way, like he tripping, but like, I don't know why he was like that. I never had no issues with Shaq. I never wanted to be like Shaq, but I enjoy watching Shaq do what he do I think he's the most dominant player to ever played.

01:29:30
Speaker 3: Like there's no player.

01:29:32
Speaker 12: It's dombinated as shack, you know what I'm saying, Like his niggas going crazy.

01:29:37
Speaker 8: I remember in eleventh grade watching him play against the kem Bamutumba in the finals, like catching it every time, elbow to the chest, turn around, dunk on him every time. I'm like, Yo, this is crazy, right.

01:29:50
Speaker 12: So I'm like, why is he hating on me? Like, if anything, he should be happy that somebody is trying to follow in their footsteps. You know, I remember this summer as a young kid who said they wanted to be just like me, and I took that as saying, like, man, thank you man. I appreciate you for one to be like me, but I want you to be greater. So you know what, I'll train you. So I started training this kid this summer and everything. I'm just reminding him, he remember what you said, you want to be like Dwight Howard. Well, shit, I did more than this, but this is what it. This is what it takes. So like I don't know why he had that against me. I reached out to try to work out with him, do business, whatever it may be because I ain't got no bad blood with Shack, but it just seemed like it's always something between me and him, and he always even now.

01:30:42
Speaker 8: The stuff I was just saying about the Hall of Fame shit that happened.

01:30:46
Speaker 12: This season, I can't watch the Lakers. I bet he watched Lakers game this year because I ain't on a team.

01:30:53
Speaker 10: But you know what can't Nobody can't Nobody, Shack and nobody else in they right mind. If you know anything about basketball, it's not even a question if you're a Hall of.

01:31:02
Speaker 12: Fame I agree, But come on, like, why would it out of all people him like one here a center, and like, really, ain't that too many where they talk about all us anyway? So why put one of them down? You know what I'm saying, Like, my my life ain't gonna dimn your life.

01:31:23
Speaker 19: About me.

01:31:24
Speaker 1: I got my own lade.

01:31:25
Speaker 8: You know what I'm saying, I ain't worrying about what you're doing in that aspect.

01:31:29
Speaker 12: And then now I felt like, because I'm not a person that get on TV and talk bad about other people, I felt like looking at him doing it is like he not understanding. People got family and they got friends, and they got people that's watching, y'all. Watch what you say about certain certain people are certain things on TV or whatever, because they got people watching. He got kids watching. You know what I'm saying, I got my kids watching. They don't need to have no issues with each other because they dads might seem like they hate each other, like for what, Like it's too much going on around the world for us to be hating about who the best basketball big man ever?

01:32:10
Speaker 1: Like mm hmm, it's just stupid to me.

01:32:14
Speaker 12: We can have barbecue, barbecue, talk about it, barb barbershop talk. But well, I guess we got to get into the little USC thing and fight it out. I don't want to see that. I'm just saying I ain't gonna do that. We'll look like what's the two fighters from back in the day They got died out three thousand, getting more slices than they got in their fault. They look like two big seals in their fighting. They couldn't even throw no they I'm so tired. That's what being shock a look like in there, come in the way.

01:32:52
Speaker 1: You know what I would rather it didn't fight.

01:33:02
Speaker 12: I would rather see y'all a comedy battle.

01:33:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that'd be funny. Yeah, I got jo.

01:33:12
Speaker 3: Oh my god, welcome to the showf this.

01:33:23
Speaker 1: Is your first year. It's my first year. So it's like.

01:33:28
Speaker 20: When he when he, when he came, I didn't know what I was a part of until I like when I got there to the gym to play pick up. That's how I seemed like, Okay, this ship magical and I'm a part.

01:33:39
Speaker 1: You've seen it right from the jump. Yeah, my first my first pickup game was.

01:33:45
Speaker 20: It was amazing, like not amazing, but like you know, scary, but you know, as far as in the arena, what y'all got, you know what I mean?

01:33:53
Speaker 1: Because KG.

01:33:54
Speaker 20: I was guarding KG at the time, and he like cussed me the funk out like I'm talking about really cuts me out. Like I shoot a shot, right, It's my first day and I make it and I'm like telling myself like get up, get it up. I'm talking to myself. He's like the chazz nigga, who are you talking to? And I'm like, you know, im from beyond, so you know, I'm like okay, thinking to myself like okay, I need to respond. It's like jail, like you know, cat letting nobody talk you like that.

01:34:26
Speaker 1: First day in jail. So I'm like, I'm just trying to get my swag, you know.

01:34:31
Speaker 20: I just said to him politely, though I don't say nothing like I'm trying to get my swag, you know, because I try to get people like three strikes, you know what I mean. That was one that was one for KG. I didn't want to give him one, but I got to the second strike. I said, well, I'm trying to get my swag, and he's like fuck your swag like loud, and I'm looking around like strike too. I gotta say something, and then you know, I say fuck your swag. He looked at him like, yeah, okay, So because he kind of seen that, like like that though yeah he liked it, you know what I mean, but he kind.

01:35:07
Speaker 8: Of seen it, and I was just like, damn.

01:35:10
Speaker 1: I really said the KG like my first day is I'm like, damn. Hopefully he don't He's just leave it there and don't bring us to tomorrow. So I try to meet him at the.

01:35:21
Speaker 20: Waffle station, right because I feel like that next morning, yeah, that's the easiest place to talk to somebody at the waffle station, right yeah, right when you're making your waffless, just syrup in butter, keep yourself yeah no, no no berries, yeah, no whip cream nah.

01:35:37
Speaker 1: Okay.

01:35:38
Speaker 20: So he you know, he likes his he likes his waffles, and he doesn't say nothing to me why he's making his waffles. So, you know, you just knowing somebody that's scary, Like I'm like, oh, ship, while he's.

01:35:51
Speaker 1: Making a waffle, you know what I mean?

01:35:53
Speaker 20: And so you know, I I you know, he didn't say nothing to me the whole day. And then I was like, fuck it, I'm gonna talk. And I was like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I thought we you know, left that over yesterday. I apologize.

01:36:08
Speaker 1: Man. Man, he was like, you know what, young fella like you man, It's all good, bro, you good. That's dope.

01:36:13
Speaker 5: So how did you guys, because I heard you guys had a great relationship, How did you guys relationship kind of flourish after that?

01:36:18
Speaker 20: I was at taking university today. I ain't graduated from no other school. Like I was his rook everything he did everything I was there, like every peanut, butter and jelly I made, like you know what I mean, like what kind of stuff hurt?

01:36:34
Speaker 1: He had his perks let me hear what he had. He's doing that. I want to hear some of the.

01:36:37
Speaker 20: Perks, Like for example, like one time here trying to take me shopping, and you know, I'm a good Brook. I ain't gonna ask for nothing. I'm just sitting chilling. Like he's like get something. I'm like nah, no, man, He's like, nigga, get something. Like I'm like damn. So he goes and put the scars on my neck. He put a scarf on a scarf it's flying. I'm like damn, like you know, and then he taught me about scarves. He taught me about hats. You know what I'm saying.

01:37:08
Speaker 1: So that's like kind of stuff he did, you know what I mean, Like or like bou Ray, you know, right, like bu Ray.

01:37:16
Speaker 20: He'll stunt on everybody else, Like if they got fifties in there, he'll give them to me because he don't like fifties.

01:37:24
Speaker 8: So I'm the Brook, like, yeah, I got four thousand worth fifties.

01:37:30
Speaker 1: It could be one.

01:37:32
Speaker 20: It used to be so bad, uh, Like we had like Perkins and Leon used to get mad. We had a whole team meeting, like ticket don't hang over with us. Perkins did that like, oh, Man, Ticket, this real story. We had a whole team meet perk.

01:37:48
Speaker 1: Like Ticket, You always hanging out with baby Face just stupid, man, you know.

01:37:56
Speaker 20: What I'm saying, Like, that's how much our relationship.

01:37:59
Speaker 1: Was, like was tight. Yeah, we were tight as hell.

01:38:01
Speaker 20: So you know, me and me and him we got I got so much like just crazy.

01:38:07
Speaker 1: Shit with him. Man, it was crazy Wallace.

01:38:19
Speaker 5: Man, you got one of the most unbreakable records, probably in the history of the NBA. I don't know, forty one texts in one season. Hey, they changed they changed the rules.

01:38:30
Speaker 1: Because of you. Yeah, oh yeah, they changed the rules because of you. Yeah.

01:38:34
Speaker 5: You talk us about some of the referees you had battles with and just how the hell it just happened so much. A lot of its reputation, But of course aren't some of.

01:38:41
Speaker 1: Them, Yeah for sure.

01:38:42
Speaker 21: Now I'll say this early on in my career, where if I felt as those things were unjust, I'm going to use a lot of profanity.

01:38:51
Speaker 1: So you're right, a lot of them I did earn. But as I got older, became more of a vet.

01:38:57
Speaker 21: And I got to know more than cheating reps that was back out. Then it's like all right, I know this person, how he going ref and this and that D D D. So now I don't even have to cuss. So now I just say little stuff like M I got that email, huh or you know what two like mm, yeah, I know what it is. How how do you get a technical foul? You going to the basket. All you trying to do is score, You get fouled and you get a technical foul?

01:39:31
Speaker 1: Who called it? Joey Jack.

01:39:35
Speaker 21: Playing Cleveland in Cleveland, so you know that heated rivalry when I was in Detroit. So I got the ball on the post boom. So I'm going I'm going to Ilgauskas and give him a move. And I go to the middle and here comes Veragill, Wam Clivers, everybody right, All three of us fall.

01:39:55
Speaker 1: To the ground and Jack stands over.

01:40:00
Speaker 21: Gave all three attack, right, So you know I'm getting up. I don't know what's happening. Right, Wait, how the hell I get attacked? I'm trying to score the ball. I ain't you know, I ain't do no dirty players, and I'm trying to score the ball. And then you know he was like, hey, that's what we were told to do. If it's any rough stuff. I was like, all right, I got you already, got kicked a whole lot of stuff. Man was of course, y'all know I wasn't. I wasn't the favorite by by the league, rests all of.

01:40:29
Speaker 1: That, you know. But I went back at them too, definite. I think my career how I was about fifteen on the season. I think I got up to fifteen. Then he almost tripled that though.

01:40:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm just saying what I'm saying. I'm saying, I'm yeah, yeah, I had. I had my run too. I lost a lot of money. Take much how much? How much were text back then? With there a thousand, because then jumped up to like twenty five hundred.

01:40:49
Speaker 1: By the time Jones it was five hundred of pot up.

01:40:54
Speaker 21: As you did not at first they just when they think that happened when they came out with the sheet rule.

01:41:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, so did she rule? You get sixteen texts, yep. And with each tech, as it goes up.

01:41:06
Speaker 21: Towards that sixteen, yeap, that fine becomes higher and the suspension comes, and then the suspension comes for the sixteen tech and then if it goes up to I think it's it was twenty or twenty one.

01:41:19
Speaker 1: It was a couple of more games, and this and that and this and that. It was on and on.

01:41:23
Speaker 5: So you gotta take every other game, you have, every other game at least a tech on everything.

01:41:28
Speaker 1: It was worth it, though, Oh yeah, yeah, it was worth it. Yeah, I'm my piece. Yeah.

01:41:34
Speaker 5: And then I never regretted they had rests in their area. There was there was the was shaving on the game too, So I can imagine.

01:41:39
Speaker 10: I remember, I remember Ron Ron caught some bullshit and you're just staring at him. Bang, bang, I'm too and throw you out, just staring and you ain't say one word.

01:41:50
Speaker 1: How you know if I'm staring at you supposed to be resting the game with too, you didn't say a word. That's the bullshit right there. But I knew, but I you know, I knew what it was.

01:42:01
Speaker 21: A lot of it was part of the business, you know, the big big Laker city Portland was a small market.

01:42:07
Speaker 1: And then again playing in Detroit, you know.

01:42:09
Speaker 21: I knew it wasn't that much love as far as you know, league wide with them, because of course would have been the black urban city and the whole bad boys thing and this and that.

01:42:19
Speaker 1: So yeah, I ain't worried about it though.

01:42:24
Speaker 21: Like I said, I think my young fellow might get me though he might Yeah, dra might get me.

01:42:30
Speaker 1: He might get forty. He the only one I could see that that might come close.

01:42:34
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm third on the list though, Yeah, I know I'm not that high overall.

01:42:38
Speaker 1: I'm third on the list behind Barkley and Carl Malone.

01:42:43
Speaker 21: Really, yes, sir, it's a great company, and I think I think Robmin is fourth right behind me, my brother Kenyan Martin.

01:43:01
Speaker 1: I always ad you watching the Bad Boy Pistons.

01:43:04
Speaker 15: Talk about that, Yeah, sending me everything Pistons, man, Like that was you know me being born in Saginaw.

01:43:10
Speaker 1: Know that was there.

01:43:12
Speaker 14: You know what I'm saying.

01:43:13
Speaker 15: Like she's a die hard to date sports fan, Like that's shed at.

01:43:19
Speaker 1: Me when I was out there layd boys. She understood what it.

01:43:22
Speaker 15: Was, man Like you played the way I'm saying, you played the way I played the game man, And she loved that style, you know what I'm saying.

01:43:29
Speaker 14: So she's to this day like that's all she does.

01:43:32
Speaker 15: She lay in her bed and it stays on either games or Sports Center, and she does cross the puzzles.

01:43:39
Speaker 1: That's her.

01:43:41
Speaker 15: Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So she eighty three, so that's all she do. Man Like she's sitting there, but she's she used to send me everything pistons. So everybody else was the bulls fan. I was basically like Mike bad. But Mike like, I'm over here with Zeke them.

01:43:59
Speaker 14: And peeps.

01:44:00
Speaker 15: So y'all like stories, get your story about my pistons. How wired I am? Right my second year, we're playing Utah, y'all, remember called my alone elbowed Isaiah Thompson, split him open.

01:44:16
Speaker 22: Remember that he was leaking right way before you was, way before I was ever in the league. I just want to set this and never thought I was gonna be in the in the in the NBA to begin with.

01:44:28
Speaker 15: But I remember he had him leaking right were playing Utah, were in Jersey on the break, Johnstock and drop that thing off to him. I go right upside called my alone boom, laying him out, and he didn't get up and do nothing. I was like, oh, these motherfuckers souff out here like and Jerry Sloan God rest the man soul. Oh you motherfucker, I kick you. And I was like he tried to take up foreign car and the car didn't do nothing. I was like, but that was physique, you know what I'm saying.

01:45:07
Speaker 14: Way later.

01:45:09
Speaker 15: Wired from Cliff like, oh listen off, bro, like and that started that started what it like.

01:45:20
Speaker 1: Nuts way back then. See, I told you all though they had nothing to do with him.

01:45:25
Speaker 15: Nothing, And I told Isaiah this story way after the like when it happened, like what I did.

01:45:30
Speaker 1: Do you think but the pistons and all that does that? Does that influence the way you play?

01:45:35
Speaker 14: Absolutely? In my environment that I grew up in, it was that.

01:45:40
Speaker 15: Yeah, like I'm seeing dude fight over travel call yeah, no question and get back to playing.

01:45:47
Speaker 14: Double drip whatever it was. Game point.

01:45:49
Speaker 15: Listen, this is my environment and I'm seeing this the way they play. Oh yeah, it's acceptable. Yeah, it's acceptable there at the highest level doing it. So when I'm doing it in high school, Dude.

01:46:04
Speaker 14: Some of the ship that I did, Bro, I know you nuts, man, nuts. I think about it.

01:46:10
Speaker 15: Dog, If I one of my boys do that, Listen, man, I'm gonna take him out of the game and him going in the bathroom, dog, and I'm gonna handle him like he's grown.

01:46:18
Speaker 14: Some ship I did in high school. I think about it. Man, something I was woke, he.

01:46:24
Speaker 1: Said, woke therapy.

01:46:26
Speaker 14: Therapy ain't.

01:46:30
Speaker 15: Because you brocause I think about it, man, Like I'd be sitting there telling him like she she asked me, like, did you ever used to box?

01:46:40
Speaker 14: She like, like you give me like that you fight her.

01:46:43
Speaker 15: I said, I probably should have, Like, but nah, man, just some of this stuff I think back. Man, I'm like some was yeah, just environment dog and then watching them dudes go upside people's head. Man, what me and got along so well when the Big Three started, like I was all just playing and all that.

01:47:04
Speaker 14: Soon as you got around each other, it was like, yo, that my guy like yeah, like and I told he, like what he say?

01:47:13
Speaker 5: You know?

01:47:15
Speaker 14: So he tried to trade for me when I was with the Nuggets. Man, they wouldn't do it.

01:47:19
Speaker 1: Where was he at New York?

01:47:22
Speaker 14: This is before the.

01:47:22
Speaker 15: Mellow thing, all that way, before that went down, Before he went there. He was trying to get it done. I told him what I did. I saw him on vacation. Somewhere on vacation. I saw him and I ran it.

01:47:33
Speaker 14: Down for him.

01:47:42
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Charles Oakley.

01:47:44
Speaker 5: Before we get to the the Knicks part of your career, although you were there at the beginning of my thoughts on the last dance and and what you saw and what you learned, because obviously not the whole time there, but you played during that.

01:47:58
Speaker 8: I mean the last dance was something for people was at home because you know, pandemics, they can see all different sizes of different people. But I think, I mean a lot of it was like I don't know how true some of it was, but I think that a lot of people, you know, like like Gary Payton, you know, he probably wouldn't happen with Mike.

01:48:17
Speaker 1: What Mike said about he said a lot about a lot of people.

01:48:19
Speaker 8: This got in Isaiah, Isaiah's talk about hisself. I don't nobody like Isaiah. No, I don't know what's up with Isaiah, just too sneaky. You know, he always thinks he I ain't do it, but he did it. You know, we got we got your on camera.

01:48:35
Speaker 1: You did camera camera.

01:48:38
Speaker 8: You still would to be Mike, Mike do not want to be your friend? Is I'm telling you for the fifth time he.

01:48:42
Speaker 1: Did not want to be your friend. You know, stay on ESPN, keep talking on t N T.

01:48:48
Speaker 8: Mike's just you know, now you're trying to say everybody better than Like, it's okay, you not better than mine.

01:48:54
Speaker 1: He came in your city and took your city. That's why you really mad. He took over with Chicago. I know, I love it. I love it.

01:49:11
Speaker 5: One thing I wanted to ask, obviously, Pip dropped the book recently and there had a lot of m just slander in that. What were your thoughts on Well, I mean, like I said, a lot of the last dance, it was a carry over.

01:49:22
Speaker 1: So you know, Scotty got his book, I got my book.

01:49:25
Speaker 8: I don't know, didn'ybody throw me on the bridge over the bridge, so I was just myself. I think Scottie probably feel like he was more to Mike than these guys. He should have got more action than Dennis rob and Steve Kurr. I think Dennis got too much play and Kurt I mean, I mean Scotty did a lot. I mean Curry might have hit two shots in eight years. Dennis, I mean he.

01:49:48
Speaker 1: Did his thing.

01:49:49
Speaker 8: We bound, but he was the asshole. Yeah you Dennis, you know what it is. I'm then enforced acclaim you found but but no, just I just try to keep it Realnis know what it is.

01:50:07
Speaker 10: I kind of felt like as time passes and you know, people kind of give Scotty his props. I just I just think he kind of going too far with it now like to and everybody have their opinion. Bro, you know what I'm saying, But from from one minute, you're saying nothing is nobody's better than.

01:50:25
Speaker 1: Jordan, He's the best.

01:50:26
Speaker 10: To the point, I guess when after like you said, after this last dance came out, now you having second thoughts of saying all this stuff.

01:50:31
Speaker 1: Like I'm kind of feeling like that ain't genuine. I feel like he going through someone. He mad at Mike about it.

01:50:36
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think myself, I think it's something that off the court right because Scotty he said what he said, he got a little bit. I mean, when the everybody call this guy to go and you ain't in the top twenty five minutes scoring, it's hope, you just say you're betting someone, but you got opinion.

01:50:51
Speaker 1: You know, I know, Scott I told to Scotty, you know I ain't.

01:50:55
Speaker 8: You know, I used to talk to Mike after every last you know, last day, like they shouldn't did anything. You But Scotty, you know, he came out with his book, he said a lot this and that, trying to compare himself with Mike. I mean, like I said that, I called Mike in uh in my book, I called Mike and Lebron frost of flaking corn flakes. Yeah, so Scotty to Mike, Scotty ain't better than Lebron.

01:51:22
Speaker 1: So my thing is.

01:51:23
Speaker 8: Scotty got a lot of you know, potential, the type of skill that with Lebron. But I don't think Scotty average over twenty points but maybe one time in his career, right, So I mean, you know Scott, you know his wife, you know his son passed. I mean, he was going through a lot, so he could have you know, I don't know. I'm trying to you know, I like Scotty, but it's Mike. Hard to say. You're betten to go.

01:51:53
Speaker 1: The one and only.

01:51:54
Speaker 23: Craig and I was having a conversation about Pip and I told I told him, I said to me, once Scott he became one of the fiftieth best, his level of confidence, not necessarily the way he played. He's playing a top fifty before then he just didn't know it, you feel me. He was under the influence of twenty three, that this is how you do it. This is how you do it, This is how you do it.

01:52:20
Speaker 2: I'm gonna drop you something.

01:52:21
Speaker 12: This is how you do it.

01:52:23
Speaker 4: So he little brother.

01:52:25
Speaker 23: Man, when he became top fifty, it became.

01:52:29
Speaker 1: What let's go.

01:52:30
Speaker 23: And I think to some degree that's still there in that little rift. They haven't, but you know, Lord Willing, it'll come together because everybody got children and your babies.

01:52:42
Speaker 1: Now, man, we're too old for that shit. You know what I'm saying.

01:52:45
Speaker 2: We too old, We too old, were too old for that.

01:52:49
Speaker 1: Now we're elders.

01:52:49
Speaker 23: Now we're olders to the point where we got to be able to give something back in the level where hey, man, if I can't give it to you.

01:52:57
Speaker 1: And see, I think you know the.

01:52:59
Speaker 23: Economic of America, the economics of.

01:53:05
Speaker 6: What is success?

01:53:07
Speaker 1: Isn't me having a billion? Is me having one hundred thousand?

01:53:11
Speaker 7: Isn't me having a hundred?

01:53:12
Speaker 1: What is so? In this thing?

01:53:15
Speaker 23: They put that idol in front of us, and we all chase it so much. And when I when I leave money on the table.

01:53:21
Speaker 1: It can be tough.

01:53:23
Speaker 23: And I think many times that when we leave money on the table, money's left on the table. That those little frackings come out, and then we have chaos.

01:53:41
Speaker 1: I got the one and only Kevin Durants.

01:53:43
Speaker 5: Man, you guys are going when and like I said, understanding and being around and knowing Draymond, when that shit happened in La, I'm like, yeah, damn, Like I understand him because he's where's his heart on the sleeve, always spreaks from the tough and most of the time it's right. You mean, but the ship, he said, was over the motherfucking line.

01:54:06
Speaker 1: So how did that happen?

01:54:07
Speaker 3: How to run me through that?

01:54:08
Speaker 1: I mean, it really came out of nowhere. I didn't.

01:54:10
Speaker 13: I mean, we the play happened. I was going to grab a rebound, he came and grabbed it. I'm thinking he gonna just toss it two me and me run up court and I'm gonna shoot the shot.

01:54:19
Speaker 1: The whole world thinking that not just you, everybody, I come off the peel. My nigga would come off the rock right there. Everybody in the world. Whew, he was supposed to come.

01:54:27
Speaker 3: Off the red.

01:54:27
Speaker 13: Everybody knew that, and we all figured that that would happen. And then when it didn't, I was kind of shocked. And then I was just like, oh, Dre Lake, let me see that.

01:54:34
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, what are you doing? Like what you're doing? And then he turned it over.

01:54:39
Speaker 13: I'm like, I'm just so confused at that point because he never ever did nothing like that before, and everybody on the bench was confused too.

01:54:45
Speaker 1: And then we came back.

01:54:46
Speaker 13: Then I just heard him screaming, and I was like, hold up, and he usually screaming when he come back to the bench, but what is he saying? Then he started going off, and I'm just like, maybe it's because I was like fucking pissed that he ain't give me the rock because I didn't say nothing.

01:55:00
Speaker 1: It was just in my body length. I was just clapping it.

01:55:02
Speaker 10: Just liked Clay was pissed. Clay pissed too, like throw one of us the rock. You know, you can't hit the house in the kitchen either, the letters shoot the bitch.

01:55:12
Speaker 1: So man.

01:55:12
Speaker 13: Then he started coming off the top with all of that stuff, and I'm just thinking, I'm like Draymond was it is actually my friend, like somebody I can call when I'm going through anything, like yo, bro, great dude, come through, Like bro, let's hang out tonight, like and for him to say that type of shit to me, it just threw me for a loop and it was just really I just started isolating myself after that because I didn't feel like, you know, they suspended Draymon and it.

01:55:34
Speaker 1: Was just like they had to so it won't look bad to everybody else.

01:55:39
Speaker 13: And then nobody talked to me about it or really like we never really came to an agreement that we didn't even we didn't even voice our nobody as a whole, because it happened in front of the whole team, and nobody really talked about it.

01:55:51
Speaker 1: It was just swept under the rug.

01:55:52
Speaker 13: And to me, it's just like we're family, were supposed to like even if he said that we can move past it.

01:55:57
Speaker 1: Let's all talk about it.

01:55:58
Speaker 13: Let's just say how we all felt about that moment, because that's a huge moment in this whole dynasty. Like you know what I mean, don't just sweep it under the rug because we want to win. That's the reason why we're not gonna win, you know what I mean. So I was like, let's just all talk about this. It's not that big of a deal, Like just put it out on the table. We can move past it and when that didn't happen. Now, it was just like fuck it, let me just hoop and worry about myself, and we went on.

01:56:20
Speaker 1: We'll see that.

01:56:21
Speaker 10: I think that probably hurt y'all because if y'all would have came out and he would have heard more people saying, bro, you should have passed the ball, Bro, you should have passed the ball, I think he would have came outside himself and realized, like, you know what made by overreacting. Yeah, he never got a chance to say that.

01:56:35
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean Draymond. We all know what Draymond is, and it's like, it's not it's fine that you can that. You want to do that, and you want to show your emotions and win when you're sleep, that's fine, But when it's over the line sometime, let's just talk about it so next time you can tone it down just a bit. And I feel like we didn't have the opportunity to do so because we were so focused on trying to just move forward and win.

01:56:55
Speaker 1: And I get that too, but it's like if we're a family and we're gonna ash it out and then we go move forward it.

01:56:59
Speaker 13: Yeah, we didn't want two chips together bigger than like say, this is just some ship we could sit down and talk about.

01:57:05
Speaker 10: That's why certain words gonna come out too. Like we brothers and I got into it. I got a fist fights my brothers. But certain words you don't say, you know what I'm saying. Certain words they're saying, you know when that line.

01:57:15
Speaker 5: Is y Well, I think he realized that too, that you mean, like I said, I think us knowing we we all know him. I think he realized he fucked up here, cross the line.

01:57:22
Speaker 1: But that's what kind of duty is.

01:57:23
Speaker 5: But that even makes the point more like, let's motherfucker sit down. I can really talk about.

01:57:28
Speaker 6: This, all of us.

01:57:29
Speaker 13: Me and him sat down and talked about it, and we kind of you know, I gave him my piece on it, and he told me how he felt on it.

01:57:36
Speaker 1: But I'm like it happened in front of the whole team. That's everybody. Everybody got to talk about because everybody fucked with each other. It wasn't like you were forcing it. Everybody really fucked with each other, you know what I mean.

01:57:45
Speaker 4: So let's sit down and haves that.

01:57:46
Speaker 10: And again everybody was thinking you were passing the rock, bro.

01:57:51
Speaker 1: It ain't just they ain't just Clay.

01:57:53
Speaker 10: Everybody in the world thought you was coming off the rock and you was wrong.

01:57:57
Speaker 1: Just to man, you was wrong. That's and that's what That's the whole thing. I think. I think that he had too much pride in the fact that he turned it over and that made him react that way.

01:58:05
Speaker 13: Yeah, but we know shit, turnovers happened exactly. Play makers on the team, nobody really care if we won or lost that game in the first place. It was just like we I mean, we're in that situation. Let's just go ahead, try to finish it the right way, you know. But at the end of the day, nobody really cared about that win on lass.

01:58:22
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. But this too great.

01:58:24
Speaker 10: Coaches, when you don't get a shot at the end of the game like that, they be pissed. Greg Popovich, He'll he'll sit you ass down the whole game. If you fuck up a play coming out of time, I don't get a shot.

01:58:33
Speaker 13: Up at the game, oh yeah, I mean, ship that doesn't make anybody pissed if you just turn it over the game.

01:58:38
Speaker 5: I think the media kind of saw that as an entry way to kind of start dividing these motherfuckers are so good.

01:58:45
Speaker 1: What can we start doing? What can we start developing to chink this armor?

01:58:50
Speaker 5: No, I got it like I was only there with y'all for three months, but I always saw to me when I looked like, I was like, this is this is some cold ship.

01:58:56
Speaker 1: Man. The media is cold. Man.

01:58:57
Speaker 5: You pay attention to these motherfuckers. They're really telling you what doing right in front of your face. But you can't do nothing because they blame me. That shit up and put a bow on it.

01:59:04
Speaker 1: It was always to me KD and the Warriors.

01:59:09
Speaker 5: It was never the Warriors. Kevin Durantz a part of that team, and I was looking at it.

01:59:14
Speaker 13: I was like, hold up, So d West came the same time I came, but he's a warrior and I'm not. It makes no sense. Javel McGee same way. He's a war like Ian Clark. He was there before me, but he left. He didn't win the second championship with us, but he's like and it made no sense to me, And I'm like, the media is just trying so hard to separate this thing. I was just like, y'all for what, Like, you didn't do that with Lebron and d Wade and Bob. You didn't do that with those guys. You didn't do that with KG and Paul Pearson. You ain't trying to separate them. It's like, oh, why why are you trying to separate me from the rest of the team, And you actually are making this your job, your duty to do so is to push this narrative every day. People called me wild for calling it out, but I'm just like, no, I think it's corny.

01:59:58
Speaker 1: It is what it is.

01:59:59
Speaker 5: In fact, he's speak on to makesure Like you said, the fact you speak on the bullshit and you.

02:00:02
Speaker 1: See it, you're bad. Yeah, exactly.

02:00:04
Speaker 5: It was just like, I'm this person you're I'm just supposed to y'all one of the greatest players ever played.

02:00:09
Speaker 1: I'm just supposed to let it go. That's what you want me to do because.

02:00:12
Speaker 13: Y'all supposed to be messengers to the fans, and they looking at y'all, y'all can easily like brainwash people with y'all bullshit and it's not about you, and media got nobody cares about you.

02:00:21
Speaker 1: It's not about you. It's about you. Go out of it.

02:00:23
Speaker 13: Yeah, you're trying to put your whole style and flair on something that got nothing to do with you. This game gonna be here before, This game was here before you, is gonna be hit way after you.

02:00:32
Speaker 1: So nobody cares about you.

02:00:33
Speaker 13: They don't care about me that much that forty years, fifty years, they're gonna lose that next thing, you know what I'm saying, So like, get out the way.

02:00:40
Speaker 5: That's why it's so important now because you think back in the day pre social media, whatever they put out is the truth, and we never had a platform, you know what i mean. So that's why I love it when you're out here. I didn't like to use the burner phone. I would have said, fuck it, I'm Kevin durantmfug. I'm gonna cush you out and you talk some shit. I'm gonna talk some shit. I'm gonna speak my mind.

02:00:55
Speaker 1: I'm still gonna do the burner thing. I'm still still on it.

02:00:59
Speaker 17: Yeah, there's some ship that you just gotta But I'm saying he's suposed.

02:01:06
Speaker 3: The old ways.

02:01:07
Speaker 4: But I'm saying, fucking bro.

02:01:08
Speaker 5: I'm saying, if i'm you like you know, if you come from me, I'm coming back show.

02:01:13
Speaker 13: Certain people are gonna come back on my regular account.

02:01:15
Speaker 1: But if I'm try and do my things. Look out, look I got the burn is still out there.

02:01:21
Speaker 4: It's lurking.

02:01:22
Speaker 1: I just slipped up that one time slipped up