4-Time Champ Horace Grant on Jordan, Kobe, Penny, Shaq and the Career Nobody Talks About Enough

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Welcome back to all the smoke. I'm excited about today. Man.

00:00:04
Speaker 2: So when I grew up watching and admiring.

00:00:07
Speaker 3: And play with a lot of great players, four time champ, hisself, All Star, four time All Defensive NBA team, Hall of Fame's got to be knocking at some point they bullshit and if they not wocome to show horse. Grant appreciate love, man, I appreciate you, appreciate you. We were having a conversation earlier. The Grant family name in the NBA is heavy. I mean, obviously your identical twin was in there. You got nephews in there. What was it in the water that got you guys all to become pros?

00:00:37
Speaker 1: Hey? You know, coming from Georgia and you know it had to be something the warriors down there. You know, my mother isn't with us anymore, and she prayed that she could, you know, have twins, and you know she got granted that wish. No pine intended. But I'm nine minutes older than my brother Harvey, how many nine? And I never let that motherfucker ever forget all right? But uh, I have four nephews. His sons two played in the NBA, one is playing now Jeremy shout out to my nephew, Jared is overseas kicking ass in Greece. Got m v P last year or the year before. Uh, you know, got my other nephew just retired from overseas. So it was just something the DNA man, you know, uh, you know, you know, we kind of breede perfection.

00:01:41
Speaker 3: I see one of the rare individuals that got a chance to play with Kobe, Mike, and Penny. Let's not forget Penny because I was a bad motherfucker too.

00:01:53
Speaker 4: Compare.

00:01:53
Speaker 3: A lot of people want to compare, particularly Mike and Kobe. What did you see some of the similarities in some of the differences between them as players.

00:02:02
Speaker 1: I was so fortunate, so blessed to play with of course MJ and the late great Kobe Bryant. The similarities, it's like being a twin man. It's like there, you know, to be on the sideline on the court with both of those guys is just heaven sent. The similarities, the work ethic, not just on the court, but on off the court, on the off days. For an example, m J knew he had to get stronger because you know, the piston was busting busting our ass back in the day. He knew he had to get stronger, and that dude was in the weight room just you know, building his physique up.

00:02:47
Speaker 4: Kobe Bryant.

00:02:49
Speaker 1: If Kobe go for five for twenty, that dude is in the damn gym at four point thirty working on his on his shot, and it's just paid us off. So the work ethic, the passion and the love of the game and them making their teammates better.

00:03:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, identical twin. I got identical twins, seventeen year olds. They're six months six minutes apart, and the older sixth the Isaiah always lets Carter know that brother. Obviously having Harvey with you. Growing up in Spartan, Georgia, describe your upbringing. You described what described your upbringing is country poverty. Parents did everything they could to make ends meet.

00:03:27
Speaker 2: What was your childhood like.

00:03:28
Speaker 1: Man, I tell people all the time, we were so damn poor. We had to move to the ghetto to be rich. That's how shit was. That's how crazy grew up a little. I mean, ye have Sparder, Georgia here, but we lived in the country. Man. We had My parents both worked two jobs and we had to basically provide for ourselves. We hunt fish for our food. Anything came across our front yard. It was dinner from squirrel, raccoon, even possum, rabbit.

00:04:14
Speaker 3: Hold on, hold on, you just got You just gave us four monsters right there.

00:04:22
Speaker 1: Rank ranked those and taste.

00:04:25
Speaker 4: Hey, the raccoon is number one.

00:04:27
Speaker 2: Oh, raccoon, taste good?

00:04:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, And then you got the rabbit, and then you got the pozza and yeah square two bony boney.

00:04:38
Speaker 4: But then you got them. We even had snake.

00:04:43
Speaker 1: Of course, alligator manter.

00:04:46
Speaker 3: Ain't bad though it ain't bad gater in New Orleans. One time, I was pleasantly surprised.

00:04:51
Speaker 1: You enjoyed that good. Just put some house sauce on this ship, yes, sir, you know we're like that.

00:04:59
Speaker 4: Yeah. But and then.

00:05:03
Speaker 1: At the age of about ten, my parents split up and we moved to the hood. And the crazy shit about that. My dad moved to the hood a house down from us. So he's always been still there. Yeah, always always, And the crazy shit Matt and a lot of people don't know this. At the age of eleven, my brother Harvd and I went to the fields and started working. At the age of eleven, during the summertime, like picking peas, oranges, peachas, you name it. We would do that from four thirty in the morning to about five in the afternoon.

00:05:48
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:05:49
Speaker 2: See that's the work ethic. But yeah, yeah, that was the work ethic.

00:05:53
Speaker 4: Man.

00:05:53
Speaker 3: Some notable players grew up in Georgia around the same time, Dye, Ellis, Sam Mitchell, Purvis Ellison, Jeff Malone.

00:06:00
Speaker 1: Did you guys play against each other? Hear each other? What was it like back in that times. No, they were a little older than my brother and I, but yeah we heard you know, Jeff Malone, Sam oh Man, you know so many other guys out there and court I mean well Dominique went to University of Georgia, but we knew of them. We never had well, we did play against Kenny Walker walk gy Walker.

00:06:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was a beast tough was he?

00:06:30
Speaker 1: Man?

00:06:30
Speaker 4: Oh in high school?

00:06:31
Speaker 1: Brouh this dude? Did he have a flat tip in high school? Yeah? He had the flat tire, but can jump out the damn gym man. Yeah. So it was some good players back there, absolutely.

00:06:40
Speaker 3: So you and your brother decided to go to Clemson. What was your recruiting process like and when did you guys. Always know you're going to be a package deal. I'm asking as a dad of boys.

00:06:49
Speaker 1: Always a package, always, no question about it. And you know, the recruiting was pretty tough. University of Georgia wanted us to go to like a prep school and we were like, nah, you know, and Clemson came along, along with a whole bunch of other schools, but Clemson not too far away from home.

00:07:11
Speaker 4: ACC was rolling back then.

00:07:15
Speaker 1: And I saw Larry Nance came from from Clemson, who you know is a great friend to this very day. But the crazy thing about Clemson I played my freshman year and my brother Harvey didn't. He got red shirted, and it kind of called some some conflict there with the coaching staff with him. So you know, Harvey went off and did did Harvey things? I just put it that way, and he fucked up, Yeah he did.

00:07:48
Speaker 4: Uh.

00:07:49
Speaker 1: The coach comes to me, he was like, Harras, your brother's just wilding out, you know, I said, you know, he said, well, we're going to have to let him, let him go, and that was my point. I'm like, we hope that they won't fake your decision, you know, if you know me, I'm thinking I'm always thinking.

00:08:12
Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, I love.

00:08:14
Speaker 1: My brother, and and he said, well, what can we do for you to keep you here? I'm like chean, like a motherfucker. Man.

00:08:24
Speaker 4: My mom never been so happy to split twins up. Man. Yeah, So we he.

00:08:30
Speaker 1: Went on to a junior college and went on to Oklahoma to make his own his own life.

00:08:36
Speaker 3: So I got a question too, because I literally just happened to me. So one of my twins broke his ankle last year and the other twin took a huge jump. So obviously watching your teammates or friends make jumps is different than obviously watching your twin brother, than the mental side of him trying to figure it out, come back, rehab, trust his body.

00:08:54
Speaker 4: What was that like.

00:08:55
Speaker 1: For you as the big brother?

00:08:57
Speaker 3: Because I go to Isaiah sometimes I go talk to card It's like cardival And to me, what was that like you as you as a big brother somewhat excelling your first year and knowing your twin is not getting the opportunities to what would those conversations like?

00:09:08
Speaker 1: It was pretty tough in terms of me, you know, at a level and Harvey right now, but we knew what type of person we were and are. I knew he was going to succeed because the work ethic that we how we grew up. There was no problem. I knew that he was going to succeed. But the conversation, it was like, so, you know, if I do this, you know, how can I you know, how can I make it? Blahah blah blah, And I would just give him advice and you know the rest of his history.

00:09:43
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, first player in ACC history to lead the conference and scoring at twenty one, rebounded at nearly ten in field goal percentage at nearly seventy.

00:09:53
Speaker 2: Goddamn you'd even missed?

00:09:54
Speaker 1: Was that season? Like, man, my senior year, I mean, and I had a fucking ego, Like it was crazy, Man, it was crazy. But to accomplish that in the ACC, it was just a testament to coaching staff, my teammates and the work that I put in. Man, just to have that ball, I mean, you know, thirty times a game to shoot. Man.

00:10:24
Speaker 4: Shit, I missed that shit. And I know where you go.

00:10:29
Speaker 3: Who's in the ACC at this time during your career though, because it's heavy.

00:10:33
Speaker 4: Got Kenny Smith, you had.

00:10:36
Speaker 1: I played against Johnny Dawkins, That dude, Toma Amaka and man, if you don't know, you got to look this dude up.

00:10:42
Speaker 2: Lim Bias Yeah, Maryland, Oh my god, tell me what.

00:10:46
Speaker 1: This game was like, six', eight chisel jump out the gym, shoot didn't have a flaw in his. GAME i remember when he got, drafted before the tragedy happened with, Him Larry bird said he was coming to two uh to watch him work out summer league or or or summer, camp just to see just to see, him and that the. Tragedy but, Man i've seen Limb bias just do.

00:11:22
Speaker 4: Something and another story is my senior.

00:11:27
Speaker 1: Year i'm the man on The i'm the man out there At clemson And i'm friends with all the football players and it was see me going to, class said, yo h we come to the game, tonight like all, yeah, yeah you know coming To he was, like but you know who coming.

00:11:46
Speaker 2: To see Live? Bien, yeah, yeah he was just that that extraordinary.

00:11:52
Speaker 1: Man.

00:11:52
Speaker 3: Yeah landing with The bulls tenth pick in the, draft same draft As. Scottie what's your first introduction to professional basketball in the city Of?

00:12:00
Speaker 1: Chicago cold as? Fuck?

00:12:02
Speaker 2: Man, coldest ain't it?

00:12:05
Speaker 1: Man? Man coming From clemson in eighty seven getting off that.

00:12:09
Speaker 4: Plane you know how you.

00:12:12
Speaker 1: Go through the little tunnel when when she gets off the, plane that wind come through the little cracks and. Holes the next, MORNING i went to this big and tall store and bought me a damn long ass coat with.

00:12:25
Speaker 4: The beaver up. Here, Man, yeah so.

00:12:28
Speaker 1: Cold but the experience with the city, itself the, diversity the, food the, people and with the. TEAM i, mean when you Say Chicago, bulls you got to Say Michael jordan And Scotty.

00:12:42
Speaker 2: Pepper, yeah, yeah you're right there. Though, yeah you, KNOW i did my.

00:12:47
Speaker 1: THING i remember coming in and you, know had the other Power Forward Charles, oakley who was a mentor and a great friend of mine to this. Day this dude used to kick my ass in practice because he KNEW i was coming after his after his, job after the Power forward and, man, listen AND i remember.

00:13:11
Speaker 4: When they traded.

00:13:12
Speaker 1: Him they called me into the office and he, Said, horace h we traded oak and you're gonna become out. Powerful so this is year two or three for. You, second, okay, MAN i went in that fucking weight room and started lifting, waste, man BECAUSE i, mean you Had Karl, Malone Buck. Williams although power forwards that you KNOW i had to go up. Against it was real power in the power forward position at that.

00:13:36
Speaker 3: Time, yeah it was no bitching it back in the day Before oak got out of you out of? There did he put hands on you like he used to fuck With. Pip we see videos of him.

00:13:44
Speaker 1: Slide that's see.

00:13:47
Speaker 4: That that's the thing With.

00:13:48
Speaker 1: Oak but he AND i was always respect AND i never really talked, ship. RIGHT i let my my play. Do But, Pip pip loved to talk ship. MAN i remember that. VIDEO i saw. It he never did. That, no, man WHERE i come, From, man we fight for. Food.

00:14:09
Speaker 3: Man Jerry, crouse if you're not around you here mixed. Things his, greatness he was, this he was. That what was your.

00:14:18
Speaker 2: Opinion Of Jerry?

00:14:18
Speaker 1: Crouse? Love jerry Respected jerry because it takes a lot to put a team together to win six. Championships the guy never got, this, uh the knowledge and the the praise that he. Deserved.

00:14:42
Speaker 4: Man but he was honest with.

00:14:45
Speaker 1: YOU i REMEMBER i, was you, know about to become a free, agent negotiating my contract. Myself Jerry krause and my former agent was in a room like, this you, know they going back and Forth i'm listening BECAUSE i wanted to be. There AND i Remember Jared krouse said to my, agent with me sitting right, THERE i would trade him right now for A C Green And i'm, like oh, shit that shit crushed. ME i just got up and. Left BUT i respected that he said. THAT i knew it was negotiation all that, shit but he said, that And i'm, Like, okay now in my, mind NOW i got to PROVE i got to prove his ass wrong WHEN i go back out there on the.

00:15:38
Speaker 2: Court, yeah, Yeah, yeahamn that's that old school.

00:15:41
Speaker 1: Shit you can't do that no. More, see that's that's some.

00:15:44
Speaker 2: BULLSHIT i can't do it no. More motherfuckers are. CRYING i want to get.

00:15:46
Speaker 3: Traded he's supposed to take it as. Motivation So i'm gonna set the stage.

00:15:51
Speaker 1: Before you get. There the year before you get, there the.

00:15:54
Speaker 3: Bulls get swept out the playoffs By Larry Larry infamy, SAID MJ i think It's god, Disguises Michael. Jordan you get, there as you, said you back Up oak for your first, Year Doug collins as the head. Coach you guys are going through with with With detroit at the. Time in the, playoffs your FIRST i mean you jumped into real. Ship what was it like your first couple of years kind of navigating as a, player getting the starting, position who you're.

00:16:17
Speaker 2: Playing, with how how tough the league? Is what were their first few years?

00:16:20
Speaker 1: Like? Confusing WHEN i say, confusing and in terms of not knowing what the bulls expected. Me you, KNOW i had some big ass shoes to fill In oak being the, enforcer you, Know detroit kicking the eye ass every. Year boston Is boston with With larry and the. Guys we JUST i had to me, personally had to find my way in terms of the expectation and what did you, know uh M j expected of. Us it was those first two, years, man you know it. Was it was, very very. TOUGH i remember after the first, year myself And Pill Doug colin was the. COACH i remember this. Vividly that. Summer you, know of, course you know we'll call each other and you, know let's meet. Here we met out in the fucking forest. PRESERVE i had two cases of. Beer me and that dude sat there and we, spilled you, know our feelings about that first year and about the motherfuckers that we didn't, like and all of that, shit, people is your Guy mantilz Hell man since nineteen eighty, seven that always would be my fucking. Dude we were just finished the two cases of beer and did some other ship you, know as you should and just, see let's, understan it ain't gotta be. Explained, yeah and uh we just you, know we leaned on each other from day, one AND i think that's one of the reason why we were so successful as. Teammates phil arrives M Obviously doug is one.

00:18:18
Speaker 2: Way phil is a whole different. Way you feel it was. Ship that ship was over With. PHIL i love that mom from front from the.

00:18:26
Speaker 1: Rip. Fuck. Yeah even as a motherfucking, assistant he was.

00:18:32
Speaker 2: Good, okay you saw.

00:18:33
Speaker 1: It.

00:18:34
Speaker 3: Man SO i didn't know he was on he was on the bench. Already he was already on the. Staff, OKAY i didn't know, That yeah he.

00:18:39
Speaker 1: Was he was on this, man and, Man doug was a mother, listen, bro you can put hand on mother fucker back.

00:18:46
Speaker 4: In But phil.

00:18:49
Speaker 1: WAS i, Mean doug would fucking yell at, us AND i was, like, man try to take your confidence and. Ship phil would come and tell it to you the right.

00:19:02
Speaker 4: Way then you.

00:19:04
Speaker 1: Understand it more. Better. Communicator, yes, yeah, man when he came, in that motherfucker and he became head. Coach man me And pitt was happy as.

00:19:14
Speaker 2: Fuck So phil comes in and it's.

00:19:16
Speaker 3: Instant you feel, it and the effect the whole team was feeling what you were.

00:19:19
Speaker 1: Feeling.

00:19:20
Speaker 4: Man you, know.

00:19:23
Speaker 1: If you Know, doug you know he was just a fiery, guy fiery coach and no disrespect to. Him But phil knew how to communicate with with. Players you, know all that zen ship that he was, studying all the weed and mushrooms he was smoking back In New york with The, knicks you, know, Allegedly but he just brought us together and he was there for a couple of years With doug as an, assistant and he saw just the personalities and he knew.

00:19:55
Speaker 4: How to deal with with.

00:19:56
Speaker 1: Us and you, know he brought that damn triangle of fencing and and had TOLD. Mj you, know we're gonna need you in the four. Court you, don't you don't need to put all their energy out. Here you brought that the triangle in and the rest is just that. One what's it like learning the?

00:20:18
Speaker 3: Triangle and this is no knock ON mc BECAUSE i had to learn it With. Kobe and it's different because if guys know it and get it, quick they can shortcut it and kind of short and fuck up everyone else's spot they're supposed to go. To what was learning? That because this is new to everyone at that? Time what's is text with?

00:20:34
Speaker 1: Them by?

00:20:34
Speaker 2: Now, yes, okay so what's?

00:20:36
Speaker 1: What?

00:20:36
Speaker 2: What what was it like trying to learn that?

00:20:37
Speaker 4: Triangle, Man, LISTEN i travel a lot for THE.

00:20:45
Speaker 1: NBA i MEAN i travel all over the, world Traveled china a, lot AND i bought that Rosella stone, ship tried to Learn. Mandarin that was just like trying to learn.

00:20:59
Speaker 4: That damn. TRYING i took. That DAMN i.

00:21:03
Speaker 1: TOOK i took Rovela stone back And i'm, LIKE i couldn't take the. Triangle BUT i remember the late Great Johnny bok who was ah and dealing with the defense texts winning was the, offense and he was like a mentor to. Me he calls me over And i'll never forget. It he was Like horace BECAUSE i it was tough for. Me he was, like do you know what the food bar? Is i'm, like, coach what's the? Football he, said right? Now you are fucked up beyond. Recognition i'm, like, oh that's a fool bar and he was, like you got to get this ship, right and he used to keep the second team there with me after. Everybody. Yeah, Yeah AND i got that. Ship and WHEN i learned that, ship it was, like, damn this ship is so. Simple this ship is so. Much you get, it, yeah, once once you get, it because it has so many, options you take away four or. Five then you then you got guys like M j know knowing they're supposed to be in certain, places but they knew that that the ball won't be there and their asses are right.

00:22:23
Speaker 3: There so we're talking about it's, funny it's this was my first.

00:22:27
Speaker 1: Year, obviously you guys got to learn it.

00:22:29
Speaker 3: Together but if you know where you're supposed to be and you're going to that spot and you See kobe, go obviously you're not going to fucking.

00:22:33
Speaker 1: Go So i'm, like where the DO i? Go? Now AM i supposed to? Be what AM i supposed to? Do many TIMES i was over in that corner like this many, TIMES i. Understand, Yeah and if that's don't always give away the secrets of the triangle. Either WHEN i was, there they'd be, like just watch the guy in front Of. Yeah that h just just watch the guy in front of. Yeah.

00:22:59
Speaker 3: Right so when so Into phil's, tenure when did you guys really finally feel like you guys clicked as a.

00:23:09
Speaker 1: TEAM i would say when we took The pistol to seven. GAMES i think it's An Eastern conference one ninety Ninety, okay, yeah we took them to the seven, games and you, know unfortunately.

00:23:28
Speaker 4: Had the migraine.

00:23:29
Speaker 1: HEADACHES i think If pitt was, healthy we were probably beating them. Then but from that point, on we knew that we had the numbers and that that summer man everybody was working, out were hooping. Together and the next, year you, know we go go in and sweep.

00:23:50
Speaker 3: There but this is an OLD i, mean this is a talented, team but they used physicality as a weapon against.

00:23:56
Speaker 1: You. Guys soon as you, retaliate you go back at. Him get. Done they got you because they're in your head because you're Thinking i'm gonna go up and you, know try to dunk or. Whatever they undercut you and you, retaliate it's completely. Over AND i remember that year when we swept. Him Dennis, rodman you can kind of go in and look it UP i mean Push pip into the, backstand And pip didn't.

00:24:30
Speaker 4: Retaliate and they knew it was.

00:24:33
Speaker 1: Over Even John sally told, me When pip didn't, react we knew it was.

00:24:38
Speaker 3: Over the year y'all swept. Him is that when they left the court? Early, yeah what was your thoughts behind that?

00:24:44
Speaker 1: Bullshit, WELL i already told you. Know they got their got their ball and they went home like, bitches you.

00:24:51
Speaker 4: KNOW i mean it.

00:24:54
Speaker 3: Was because we Had isaiah here AND i understood him and respected him because of who he.

00:24:59
Speaker 1: Was but to, me that's it was. WEAK i, mean when they kicked our, ass we had to take. It we took. It we sat, there you, know bring it back to the, east that's. ALL i, mean that's what we, say bring it, back bring it back. Home but that walking off and all, that you, know and you KNOW i spoken the, sail spoken to the, worm and you know they you, know they still Protect. ZEKE i love Z.

00:25:22
Speaker 4: YEAH i loved it. TOO i loved it to.

00:25:24
Speaker 1: IT i sat here and listened to him telling, him LIKE i feel. You but BUT i mean when three years in the road they kicked, OUT i mean. BEAT i mean WHEN i say, BEAT i mean literally beat our, ass but you know that's water under the, bridge and you, know three to six championships.

00:25:44
Speaker 3: Later, hey so you averaged fourteen and nine during Your guys three year. Run you're kind of the third star on the, team more of a, defenser, enforcer rebounder roll who freed up guys Like pip and to kind of do their. Thing how long did it take you to embrace because again we're just talking to college twenty shots twenty five, shots you, know so you're going to a situation where you got to be more efficient with less.

00:26:10
Speaker 1: Opportunity, man let me tell, you, man that was one of the most difficult TRANSITION i ever, had coming in from, averaging you, know being that start being the acc player of The year and The Tripper crown winner to rebounding and play playing. DEFENSE i mean that, Ego, man got a fucking check bro That i'm, like, Damn AND i think that's one reason WHY i Push oak every day Because i'm, like, MAN i Know i'm better than you know just. Rebounding but as you get older and you learn, that you, know you got SCORES mj and Then pip came. Along you got shooters Like packs AND Bj Craig, hodgs and so FOR i had to play my, role and that role, was you, know, rebound play, defense and when the opportunity presented, itself hit that fifteen to seventeen foot jumper whenever the motherfucker's passed me the.

00:27:13
Speaker 2: Ball so did you feel because obviously.

00:27:20
Speaker 1: In a different, situation numbers would have probably been, higher but you sacrificed for your. Role did you feel like you.

00:27:25
Speaker 3: Were valued by your teammates and by the? Organization oh, yeah, okay you know.

00:27:30
Speaker 1: In terms of they, know IF i didn't do my, job they couldn't do. That, NO i don't think championships, well BECAUSE i had to keep those powerfuls Like, Oak Kevin, Willis buck With Charles, barclay so many OTHER i had, to you, know try to contain, them keep them off the board and not from scoring things of that. Nature AND i ununderstood my value with the, team and they understood my value.

00:28:04
Speaker 3: Also nineteen ninety, three you guys make it to the, Finals Phoenix. Suns you have the clinching assist To paxson and the key block On Kevin.

00:28:17
Speaker 2: Johnson and that's. Here let's take a look right.

00:28:19
Speaker 1: Here look at this young. AGE i can run there swing. Man that's. It you See Danny ainge's little ass coming down this JOY i was about to dunk that then he brothers little ass.

00:28:41
Speaker 2: Down, there perfect.

00:28:42
Speaker 1: Past, yeah that was. Beautiful.

00:28:45
Speaker 2: Man what'd you play at about two twenty?

00:28:46
Speaker 1: Five, yeah about about two Thirty, okay, yeah right, here oh, man mj oh got man give me? That, yes, sir clean.

00:28:56
Speaker 3: Too what's that feeling like right? There the clinching block to end? It you play it going up against a Tough Kevin johnson Obviously Charles. Barkley Is Charles BARKLEY mvp that?

00:29:04
Speaker 1: Season, yes, yes we would Like, well whenever you go up to against a team and that team has AN mvp on, it you know it's gonna be. Special but PLAYING i Mean chuck is around sixty, four six four.

00:29:21
Speaker 4: And a half maybe six.

00:29:22
Speaker 1: Five going up against him for six game maybe seven, game series man was one of THE toughest i.

00:29:28
Speaker 2: Ever played but.

00:29:30
Speaker 1: That Shot What john packson made man was one of the, BIGGEST shots i would Say In chicago. Bulls history and the LAST time i Spoke To kevin johnson maybe a couple of, years ago he was mayor Up, in SACRAMENTO and, i said kJ if your asked were about, six three you probably would have got. The hilt he, was, like hold, you know damn where you. Filed me, i'm like.

00:29:55
Speaker 4: Absolutely clean it, was, clean man.

00:29:58
Speaker 3: Six' ten talk to us a little Bit, it ABOUT barkley because i think a lot of this Generation only knows barkley as.

00:30:04
Speaker 2: A media personality but he was a.

00:30:06
Speaker 3: Bad, motherfucker man man no holes in this game except, maybe hustling sometimes.

00:30:11
Speaker 1: Well let me tell you about. That hustle shit but there was no holes. In this game you knew he was gonna get the. Ball. Thirty times man and back then you didn't have this rule with, five second rule you. Get the ball didn't they create that? Because?

00:30:26
Speaker 4: Of HIM yeah and i mean his ass was fucking bigger than.

00:30:31
Speaker 1: Just. Fucking room, Man you know i'm gonna, pause on, that but yeah his, ass Was big, and, i'm, like damn man he used to back. My. Ass down, MAN i'm, like i mean And Then, and phil jackson if, you know him he don't, like. To double man he would like to let somebody eat your ass up until he. Has to, double but man Much. RESPECT to chuck i mean he brought it every. In the night but on, the other end listen man, for SOME reason because i didn't.

00:31:06
Speaker 2: Get the, ball a lot.

00:31:08
Speaker 1: And they Put They put magic, johnson on Me They put larry, barry on Me And. Put charles barklay that's mean, in my.

00:31:16
Speaker 4: Head.

00:31:16
Speaker 1: THAT'S disrespectful guy i know y'all. Gonna play defense, they, was like harsh we know they ain't gonna pass you. The, fucking BALL yeah then i have to go to the glass and get it. Off the glass AND that's why i made my name getting. No offensive rebounds let's back it up. A little bit Ninety, One verse magic this. Broke my Heart i'm.

00:31:34
Speaker 3: A laker guy guys going there and this is kind of the end of a great Run.

00:31:39
Speaker 1: For the lakers? What was?

00:31:41
Speaker 2: That like this that's the the switch hand.

00:31:44
Speaker 1: LAYUP too right i think, everybody was nervous EXCEPT for probably Mj and Maybe bill cart right being the veteran, of that team because you're going. Up. Against history man when, you say history You, talk the LAKERS and that i ain't To Stay, With Maggie johnson James Word, and byron scott. All Of them sam perkins was. On that, TEAM me personally. I was nervous i was. Nervous as ship and but after that First Game when sam perkin hit that three to put them UP and then mj had a chance. To win it we had a chance TO win with mj shot and if you look at that ball and went right in and came out and after, after that game and we had confidence, for some reason we had Confidence, that we yeah and then the second game and then we go and uh take care of business and Uh that Great western for did you.

00:32:48
Speaker 3: Guys party in la or go back home and? Party, Or both OKAY i'm just. I Don't know i'm i'm eleven years old.

00:32:53
Speaker 1: AT this time i. Know.

00:32:55
Speaker 4: What's, Happening, man listen.

00:32:57
Speaker 1: Man WE party when i, say, we party man we were fucking rock. Stars looking Man That was michael Jackson and the jackson five over Here and the. Beatles over here, we, was listen bro it was a Great.

00:33:13
Speaker 4: Time in la where'd?

00:33:15
Speaker 1: You guys? Go?

00:33:16
Speaker 2: Remember? Hotel okay everyone the party, Came, to, Y'ALL.

00:33:19
Speaker 1: Yes sir i MEAN when when i, said it. Came it came and then when we Got, BACK to chicago i don't think we slept for a.

00:33:30
Speaker 2: Couple of days worm, Out, there now.

00:33:32
Speaker 1: Yes, and man listen they kept the bars open. All. That shit man it. Was real, nice so, obviously you know you guys.

00:33:42
Speaker 3: Get three straight but after, that first, one they say the toughest one is to, get the second and then the toughest one you. Get the third so what's you guys are Going up against Clyde and the blazers. In ninety two what is what is your mindset? Throughout the season you get, your first taste you get, your first one You knock. A.

00:33:56
Speaker 1: Dynasty album now how? What's the what what's the what's the mentality of the team? AT this, time i mean you got to Give Kudos. To phil jackson he kept us grounded and he told us every single, game you play it's gonna be. That team best even back in The day the clipper. Wasn't that good What's? Another badass Kings? Okay the kings he, was like no, he, was like yeah they're going to give you. Their best game and that's the mindset we had going. Into that season because when, you're, on top. Man it's great it's great. Up there, man you know you get all the perks and.

00:34:40
Speaker 4: The accolades and.

00:34:41
Speaker 1: Things like that you don't pay for meals. Drinks and ship yeah you get the females and, all that, shit, all right okay but yeah you get all the accolades and things.

00:34:56
Speaker 4: Of that nature But.

00:34:59
Speaker 1: Playing against markland man one of the most athletic teams ever played played with men Played, Against, Rather, clyde Terry, Porter, The, lake Jerome, Curtsey.

00:35:14
Speaker 2: Duck, Worth, Uncle Buck, William.

00:35:16
Speaker 1: Uncle man uncle, cliff, WITH listen man i ain't like to, see, him coming man he can shoot that ship post up game athletic and about sixteen, sixty eleven man much of respect to.

00:35:30
Speaker 2: My brother.

00:35:32
Speaker 1: Tough so? Three straight championships what's your?

00:35:39
Speaker 2: WHAT'S that, like i.

00:35:40
Speaker 1: Mean it hasn't been done very often in the history, Of the game but you guys.

00:35:43
Speaker 2: Get three straight.

00:35:46
Speaker 1: When, you're on top you want, to, Stay there man you truly want, to stay there and you do anything and, sacrifice your vacations your your YOUR life now i don't want, to say life but your vacations and and. Your your friendships and that's what we had to do to win, that third one because that second one, was so difficult and, that, third one man it was that third one mentally just were on us because every single night it was their best game and plus that we could not do anything off the court that would jeopardize us. Losing our, focus that's man but you still got to live though and. Still have fun like? What's it like what?

00:36:39
Speaker 3: Is IT like BECAUSE i mean i got a chance To play With alan iverson h off the court as, A Rock, Star kobe steph i've got to play with some real. Life rock stars you were playing With em and pip and your. In, yourself respectively like what's it like off the court when you guys are moving around the restaurants or going to, Bars, or clubs like what is? This fandom like because you guys are the best team in the world. At, this time man look at me.

00:37:01
Speaker 1: Sorting, rubbing, his knees like let me tell, You, school here hey what the Crease in? Your jesus.

00:37:09
Speaker 4: Man. WE it, was.

00:37:14
Speaker 1: I mean right now you, Have You know luca lebron and you know, And the crew but it was.

00:37:22
Speaker 4: Nothing.

00:37:22
Speaker 1: Like that man, in the nineties we get, the private room even coming through the restaurant going to. THE private, room i mean.

00:37:32
Speaker 3: People going crazy and this, is before, cameras, phone.

00:37:37
Speaker 1: Man listen we had all this social media, wouldn't be, Here, no way, bro, wait listen man thank you For not having but even when we land, at the, airport you know from the plane, to the. BUS it's, people i mean like a caravan of cars following the bus. To the hotel you're getting inside the, hotel straight, up real talk and the hotel lobby is just filled with people and they got it roped, off and stuff and you know everybody. Does seem respectfully we'll, just you know.

00:38:25
Speaker 2: Get our keys, and mozone.

00:38:28
Speaker 1: Up. Mozone up man it Was Like the jackson's jackson Five. And.

00:38:33
Speaker 2: The, beatles bro, yeah.

00:38:34
Speaker 3: It was man so you make four straight defensive teams from ninety three. To ninety six who are some? Of the guys give me maybe three guys that you knew you had to get your sleep?

00:38:46
Speaker 1: The?

00:38:46
Speaker 2: Night before.

00:38:48
Speaker 1: MAN oh gosh, i, would say uh. IT'S a combination, i would say. Everyone all right and.

00:39:02
Speaker 2: He, taught shit too huh while?

00:39:04
Speaker 1: You, doing it man. That, WHITE motherfucker yeah. I never, knew you know you SEE, him on, tv you know and when you go.

00:39:17
Speaker 4: Up against you was.

00:39:18
Speaker 1: LIKE hell NO i mean i remember one day we Were playing The celtics and Berry were giving pip numbers in. THE first Half i think larry had, about twenty one twenty, two and halftime. Never forget this we're going to, The you know peel safe stuff and, He, say hard okay you, got Him now, And i'm, like i'm Taller stronger. Than pip, right, i'm like man ain't no fucking way. This dude on this motherfucker, said TO me, and i quote Are you serious they're gonna put you? On me now, and you know me being a, proud, TRIED like yeah. I got it this motherfucker, SAID to, me i mean This is what i'm gonna. Do to you he, told you, no, he no man he told me This ship, and i'm, like fuck, This you know. I'm being physical that. Motherfucker DID it and I. GO to, Pill, i said pip this motherfucker, just told me and he was and he Called me g, he, was like gee don't. Go for it don't go. For His ship, And, i'm saying okay next time he say some, SHIP like that i ain't gonna. Go for it he. DID it again i didn't. Go for it that motherfuckers scored feels. Like, double team yeah this motherfucker he said Double Team with larry bird and the next two.

00:40:43
Speaker 4: My brothers don't.

00:40:43
Speaker 1: Get. Their Flowers man rashid, wallace cold, man this, man listen man.

00:40:52
Speaker 4: And he has a. Post up Game People.

00:40:54
Speaker 1: Listen, RASHID wallace MAN i knew i had to get my motherfucking sleep and.

00:40:59
Speaker 2: Uh D C, There.

00:41:01
Speaker 1: Derek Coleman Lefty when derrick coleman's, on his, Game, bro man man those two guys right There Along. WITH larry bird. I love it what? Was?

00:41:11
Speaker 4: Coochs?

00:41:11
Speaker 3: COACH like different a lot of hype coming out and and came and landed.

00:41:15
Speaker 2: With you guys what was?

00:41:16
Speaker 1: This game like man watching watching uh t K Against The Olympic team dream team dream piples on his. Ass whole, Time oh, man i'm, Like oh, ship i'm like this. IS what, coming i mean they they. Whipped his ass but when, he got there a whole. Fucking different story, he, was. Calm cool collective one of THE greatest teammates. I ever had i mean in terms of. Being not selfish can fucking shoot the ball if you open, To, sixt eleven yeah if you open and he's, gonna, give you man. He's gonna yeah one of. THE best teammates.

00:42:04
Speaker 3: I love, that right here, your signature glasses, THEY say technically i don't know if it's like he was legally blind.

00:42:12
Speaker 1: Without these Things that's why. I'm believing PHYSICALS, IN the nba i took A damn. Physical i passed. I'M legally blind i. CAN'T see nothing.

00:42:22
Speaker 4: I can't, See i'm Like, I'm like Ray charles. And steven, Wasn't i'm, LIKE i'm like.

00:42:32
Speaker 1: I found out, Because you know peel give it us books And ship and i'm reading the damn, books like this.

00:42:40
Speaker 4: And then the coach, come out hard what? Are you, Doing i'm like i'm.

00:42:42
Speaker 2: Reading the book, he was like when, we get back we're going to check your, eyes.

00:42:48
Speaker 1: Right.

00:42:48
Speaker 4: Here legally, blind, I'M like so.

00:42:54
Speaker 1: I got this phobia about putting my finger with context toward my eyes that can't wear glass asses out, there, and say okay you got. The prescription goggles, i'm sitting there you know. PIPLS right, Here, I said man i got to wear these. Motherfuckers Right here but i'm gonna wear these and look at me and not. QUOTE pill man i dare your ass to where those are no fucking glasses if, you know, me AND man where, i COME from How, I grew, OKAY damn me i did that ship and that particularly night though, goggles were born, Because you know kareem And and uh elijah want had, the round ones but this ship was some. From OUR space, AND.

00:43:43
Speaker 3: I asked i asked this, respectfully as possible did you ever wear them off the court when you're hanging. Out with females, Then, HE said horace i wanted to see you with, Them glasses on so you butt ass naked with your glasses on at least Once AT.

00:43:57
Speaker 4: Least and i had my. Burgen starts, on that's. He that's HE that's why i had so.

00:44:11
Speaker 1: Many different, pairs, and, uh yeah guys get THREE p m j goes.

00:44:23
Speaker 3: To play baseball what's kind of the thought process of kind of we. Just got three but the one thing you did say was it. Was mentally draining so after those three, he steps away where's?

00:44:34
Speaker 1: Your mind that, at that time man as, a collective group our minds because you hear, all the, Time You know michael Jordans, and the jordaneers and we wanted to prove, that we, could you know, PLAY without him i mean. When he retired we got together that summer and we had a few meetings and everybody, was all in all, in that summer and, if you remember we won fifty five games That year and pip got.

00:45:17
Speaker 4: Quite a few.

00:45:17
Speaker 2: Votes for YOUR FINALISTS, for mvp.

00:45:19
Speaker 1: Mvp AND myself and Bj Made the. All STAR Team the dj armstrong shout, out. To you kid but we had something to prove THAT we were. Nba basketball players and if it was not for that damn phantom Foul Against The, New York Knicks, hewett davis, hugh the referee gave That foul to pip and we, lose that game but we came back beat Them in in chicago and we took him To Took the new york to a. Seven game series but one of, THE best, years i think even though we Didn't, win the chip one of the best Years that.

00:46:10
Speaker 3: The, Bulls, had, man now obviously, do you guys, obviously you hear but there's no. Social media time but obviously there's conspiracy theories and thoughts where he's stepping away. Because of gambling did you guys hear any of that ship that you just knew that he wanted to go.

00:46:23
Speaker 1: Play, some baseball man people don't know in terms of he, lost his dad.

00:46:32
Speaker 4: The trauma that a guy like that.

00:46:37
Speaker 1: Have no privacy, losing his dad and the wear and tear on you mentally can take a. Toll on you and he just wanted, to, GIVE away man i think and uh.

00:46:52
Speaker 4: And pursuit baseball.

00:46:54
Speaker 1: We never heard gambling and all of that ship because in our mind we had something to prove to ourselves and the fans and The city of chicago that we have a legitimate chance to.

00:47:08
Speaker 4: Win without him you guys.

00:47:10
Speaker 2: Still talking to him while he's away or you're just locked in. On this team he.

00:47:13
Speaker 1: Used to come in and.

00:47:15
Speaker 2: Practice with?

00:47:15
Speaker 1: Her oh really yeah he was. Still, coming practice okay still coming to practice and, then you know. Of course, baseball, but, yeah.

00:47:25
Speaker 2: Yeah okay leaving And. Heading to orlando how?

00:47:30
Speaker 1: Did?

00:47:30
Speaker 2: That, happen money yeah, Talk to us talk to us IN terms.

00:47:36
Speaker 4: Of i Mean.

00:47:40
Speaker 1: If if chicago had to offer me, SOMETHING around there i would have stayed with the crazy. The crazy Shit me. And pip talk WE talked before i made that. Decision to leave we talked for hours aris scenario of me, leaving or staying and it was. That's my dude it, was. Fucking emotional man and it was just a business decision, in terms, of you know helping. A team, win three chips chips and then going to play with A, Young Shack, Penny, Nick anderson Dennis. Scott bro man that WAS the opportunity i. Couldn't pass up and it, was a. Great GREAT journey and i, TELL people this. I don't know i probably would Have gave the bulls A discount if I know the mj. Was coming back.

00:48:43
Speaker 3: But before before we Get to, the orlando run because you had some great young stars, on that team you were the vat coming in, with three belts three. Chips on you How Good was, scotty PIPPIN though because i think obviously still, to this day he just did a commercial recently about, being no, no No no uh?

00:49:01
Speaker 2: Scotty was what.

00:49:02
Speaker 3: He Just had a, commerce, soda Commercial right mister pibb where it was a little a little jab at being the second, BEST allegedly Whatever i haven't.

00:49:12
Speaker 4: Pip go, Nigga.

00:49:19
Speaker 1: Listen, MAN but right i mean people don't they underestimate this dude.

00:49:28
Speaker 4: Was right man in, ninety ninety.

00:49:32
Speaker 1: One when We played the lakers, in the finals magic WAS. Given m j you, Know, Too big YEAH phil put. Pip on him it changed the dynamic. Of that finals you Asked any of pip's teammates who, played with him.

00:49:53
Speaker 4: He was one of the.

00:49:54
Speaker 1: Most great leaders he didn't. Have to yo he would talk To you like phil would, talk to you and, he would, say all right, you GO here but i got your. Back over here and that's all. His Teammates needed but i'm gonna find out what the fuck is going. On behind that that's THE d m, j and practice what? Was he like that motherfucker was like he don't like to lose and ship as you know in practice when when He fucking hit will. Purdueing The eye then will got on the bus looking like fucking that Dog from From little radscal pete put the black spot gambling this playing what's it like on The Plane gambling revy.

00:50:49
Speaker 4: And this, is another.

00:50:51
Speaker 1: Story all right you know How we gambled gamber on THE plane and mj didn't carry a lot of, cash, with him right SO. We playing tnk this motherfucker h ran out of cash and, he, was, like gee, uh you, know little. Man a thousand i'm, SAYING to myself i. Love this ship give, me a thousand, play another hour hour and, a half whatever losing ge you, Got another thousand i'm. Saying to myself i'm loving this ship, because you know. Lose lose that then the plane land and uh after he as he's getting, OFF the plan, i HOWLED, him m j don't forget to bring my. Fucking money tomorrow that motherfucker, Was, so, mad bro listen this motherfucker got so mad he got. There BEFORE everybody, WHEN i, arrived i said and you. Got my cash that mother had two bands of two stacks of hundred hundred, dollars CRISPY bills and i put my hand out. Like that, Threw i'm like i'll. Give a fuck i'm getting on one of the MOST, him and covid two of the. Most competitive motherfuckers, and, EVERYTHING everything bro i mean. Every fucking thing, and ANOTHER story when i, was a Rookie me and pill and we didn't.

00:52:28
Speaker 2: Have private planes oh you had, the, commercial still.

00:52:31
Speaker 1: Yeah and you have, to go, downstairs you know get your. Luggage and ship this motherfucker. Bet on that he was like that would. Come, Out first yeah and this motherfucker took so much, money Off me and, pip was like? What the fuck then find out this motherfucker Was paying par that goddamn Dude.

00:52:50
Speaker 4: Ain't, no back then we.

00:52:51
Speaker 1: Ain't making, money, and listen, man every fucking every fucking nickel counted and this motherfucker paying this. Dude, his bags man he was he took some fun Serious. Mothers of kobe.

00:53:02
Speaker 3: I've had people tell me who people who Were close To jordan and kobe would try to ask A.

00:53:06
Speaker 1: Lot about mj did he do? That? With you yeah he ALWAYS asked about mj and gave him. Stories and stuff but he got dial in when HE, and m, j you, know locked in locked in and mother folks dial There. WAS he yeah i was so happy that he was, on, my, team, right, Yeah yeah absolutely.

00:53:29
Speaker 2: So let's let's let's get. Back to You land in orlando obviously.

00:53:33
Speaker 3: A tough decision if you knew and, was coming back you might have, Gave a discount but you're landing with arguably the greatest big man all time and someone who is probably one of the biggest what ifs ever As Talented as. Penny hardaway was what was it like with, Those two, guys and again you're kind of coming in, as a vet someone, who's DONE it so i know they're leaning on you for knowledge.

00:53:53
Speaker 2: And game experience what was that Situation?

00:53:55
Speaker 1: Like in orlando one of THE best experience, I ever had matt in terms of going to a team who just Lost to think indiana someone in the, in the playoffs having a guy a young.

00:54:11
Speaker 3: Shock stopped there what's a what's a young shock like on and? OFF the court i want TO know because i got him later when he was just fucking around with everybody body?

00:54:20
Speaker 1: Wasn't, doing that hey it's, ten. Times round man that dude would give you the shirt. Off his, back. Great guy prankster but when it, came, to balling man don't fucking, make, it mad man don't. Not making mad one of the GREATEST human beings i ever. Been associated with but this dude would just get the ball off rebounds and if the, lane is open taking all the fucking. Way block shots just he's pulling down backboards at. This, time too yeah he just, you, Just nasty man. That's fucking nasty but, THE thing is i remember him picking me up from the airport or THE hotel when i was a free. Agent, coming over oh when he was trying. To court, you, yeah yeah, yeah great job man told, you Huh, Yeah oh man but one. Thing sold me he, picks me up and this motherfucker Is. In a, porsche i'm like how in the hell you fit your ass In. A motherfucking porsche. It was magic no pun attended because HE got his i mean It. Was a porsche sitting in. The, backseat though man he sending shit like ten feet, from, back There man, and, i'm LIKE damn then. I get in it was a fucking Customer.

00:55:53
Speaker 4: Ass.

00:55:53
Speaker 1: Motherfucking porsche bro that. Shit was, nice, I'm like okay, i'm coming here my. Name On It and penny hardaway cold six seven six, EIGHT um, shooter i. Mean, rebounder Assists man i q off. The GAME unbelievable how i pray and wish that he would. Not got injured we're talking about top fifteen twenty. Of all time, I'm telling You i'm Telling i've seen shaq go, to, the bench foul trouble or just follow. Out The game penny hardaway takes. Over. That shit man we don't. Even, look back yeah he was just that fucking bad bro telling.

00:56:41
Speaker 4: You right now some.

00:56:44
Speaker 1: Of the moves that he made athletically. DURING the, game i mean it's that. Shit was real what was he like? Off the court we don't really hear Too much About Penny, quiet well okay this shit didn't party none. Of that shit and that Was Just like cob coke didn't party all, that Shit either but. Penny just no that motherfucker was, on The game bro and when he came in the game and you saw it on his fucking face and, he was like we, Got this shit it's. Time.

00:57:19
Speaker 3: To go yeah so you're not accustomed to doing what happened in Ninety. Five against houston you don't lose.

00:57:25
Speaker 2: In the finals so what was that?

00:57:27
Speaker 3: Ninety five Experience like with kenny someone you got to play. Against in College, obviously a keen one of the greatest big. Men all time they had A good good robert or they had A Good. Young sam cassell what was? That team like Oh.

00:57:40
Speaker 2: THE stork man i THOUGHT seriously.

00:57:46
Speaker 1: That i had, my next championship, no disrespect, to of Course. THE dream Rob i think Clyde Was on Clydeep, Clyde, and sam robert. The whole, crew i'm like we got this ship because we we won sixty games that that year and UH beat uh mj and Them the, whole i'm, LIKE hell yeah i. Got Another ONE fucking then i woke up to A nightmare called keema. Lajawan, this, mouth listen man this dude do not get enough fucking credit to being one of the best fucking sinners.

00:58:22
Speaker 2: Of all time.

00:58:23
Speaker 1: OF all time i mean he and You, can ask shack you can go back and. Look at it. Shot couldn't do and then the coach at The Time. Was brian hill, He, was like, harsh you know we go. Get you, Something oh, man, I'M like fuck i had been partying the, night Before anyway, and i'm like sh this dude was, every fucking, move every rebound it was like it's like, dancing. Out there man and Then You got robert ri Then you got kenny hitting. Fucking three pointers so after we lost that first game and then we kind of got deflated, a little bit and then they went on to kick our ass four straight and, Even after then i'm thinking we're getting back to the fucking finals. With, that squad yeah but. It never happened that's why you don't take.

00:59:24
Speaker 3: Shit for granted le's for one a LITTLE bit because I forgot when mj came back with. The forty five, YES that, like, i mean obviously you those, are your. Dogs pipsure guy you guys. WON three, straight mj leaves he comes back and you guys meet him.

00:59:37
Speaker 1: In, the playoffs well a lot of, people, ALWAYS say well mj had half a year in, which, HE did. Right mj, wasn't, i'm, LIKE man listen i don't want to. Hear that shit because he goes To Motherfucking uh new York and give john. Start fifty five so he was SO he WAS. Mj was mj, uh that year we just we were. A. Better team uh we were just clicking, that, that year man and You know with nick steps still, In that ball penny, doing his. Thing Shack me brian shaw was. On, the team uh shout Out. To beat shaw but we were just a better. Team that year? What was that was it?

01:00:26
Speaker 3: A bitter sweet obviously you want to win and get? To the funds what was? It bitter sweet?

01:00:29
Speaker 1: Beating? Your? Guys though?

01:00:30
Speaker 2: Now fuck it we just.

01:00:32
Speaker 1: Ain't no, squeen see, LISTEN bro man i remember when we, We beat them, and of, course you know spending six YEARS. With, m J there m j WAS pissed and I was told i. DIDN'T see it i was told He got his poorsche Out Of the united center and, just, you know yeah like like the police chasing and ship And me and pitt went out to went, out to dinner, and you KNOW of course i let, him have it and uh, he, WAS like yeah, I got us. We'll see, you you know didn't know that it was going to be. The next year that, fucking, next listen? Man what's that it was on a mission? That next, YEAR hell yeah i mean when you Go and Get. Dennis, rock robin yeah, for the record he had To have A hall of famer.

01:01:38
Speaker 4: To, beat, me.

01:01:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah yeah so but they were a better.

01:01:45
Speaker 4: TEAM that year i think we were just.

01:01:50
Speaker 1: Thinking about, the previous year, and you know with WITH the m J being, M j man i knew personally he was going to come back with. The fucking vengeance yeah that. Mother he came he came back with. The. Vengeance too respect.

01:02:05
Speaker 2: Shaq Sold the orlando.

01:02:07
Speaker 3: Magic to you you guys have your couple with you, Two, years together shack?

01:02:13
Speaker 2: We's three Four you? See shaq leave how did that?

01:02:18
Speaker 1: Hurt? YOUR heart man i will never. FUCKING forget this I would, NEVER that summer i went home to visit My. Parents in, georgia YOU know when, i go, Home you know i'm At. Home in georgia shaq called me about three. OR four times. I didn't answer i think it was telling me that he was going To go to la. He WAS leaving when i found out, THAT he, Left I thought mike tyson hit me in. MY fucking Stomach I thought mike tyson had hit me so fucking.

01:02:54
Speaker 2: Hard it was it was such.

01:02:57
Speaker 1: A fucking blow but, business is BUSINESS and and i will, never Forget This. The orlando magic some writer put, in the paper it's shack worth, one hundred million and then the community down there at that. Time said no and when when you do that.

01:03:19
Speaker 2: To, A big fellow a big fellow like, he knows.

01:03:22
Speaker 3: Everything, he hears, everything yeah, everything he's media he's.

01:03:27
Speaker 1: Social media savvy, So HE yeah and i think that was the thing. That pushed him they pushed him out.

01:03:37
Speaker 2: With, the bullshit yeah when.

01:03:39
Speaker 1: You hear listen if you that that, type, of player SAY if m j heard some, Ship Like That, cole larry magic when you that, that that player you hear some, ship like that you don't. Want me here you gonna bounce and plus for over one hundred million dollars And going. To, la too man that's the.

01:04:08
Speaker 2: City of angels.

01:04:11
Speaker 4: That's the city.

01:04:12
Speaker 3: Of fucking angels, so two thousand You, laying in seattle you get a chance TO, play with, Gp Our Dog, Mad Max, young, jelani gelondo, McCoy Shout.

01:04:23
Speaker 1: Out ruben patterson you guys lose to the.

01:04:27
Speaker 3: Jazz and five what is it Like going From, orlando to seattle getting a chance TO, Play with gp max AND and everyone. I.

01:04:33
Speaker 1: Just mentioned yeah the crazy Thing about THAT max was i went to the Front. OFFICE in, ORLANDO i said i heard the you guys things. About trading, me oh no You're gonna be you're gonna be the. The locker room you're gonna. Be that, vengiom, i'm. Like okay, Cool next thing i'm a fucking Plane. Up to. Seattle god tell SO of COURSE i know gp and everybody, and get there fell in. Love with, it, beautiful city. Yeah BEAUTIFUL city BUT i mean i Was, used to Chicago but then.

01:05:15
Speaker 4: Orlando spoiled me rocking.

01:05:17
Speaker 1: With that weather then going up there and with the ice and the rain and the overcast and.

01:05:25
Speaker 4: Ship like, that.

01:05:26
Speaker 1: I'm like damn o son and BUT playing with, Gph my.

01:05:32
Speaker 4: Man julni.

01:05:34
Speaker 1: Man How Good? WAS ben baker I Don't think van baker Gets To love van baker has so. Much, game man listen. Super game man he, Got ball Man, ben baker man he get that fucking ball on the post or. Step out man he had. Footwork like crazy Shout out To. Vin baker man when the nicest guys that you ever wanted to meet. Down the earth just a great player back. In the day, but BEING there and i Remember playing against utah in, the first round call mylone and they. Fucking BEAT us and i thought we had the best team. Against against them but it was. A great experience La back with Shaq.

01:06:27
Speaker 3: And young Cove This is KARL malone and gp? Are there too or that that's. Your second year that's the. Second, year there yeah the first year. They, weren't there man, THAT first year i will. Never forget this, phil calls.

01:06:45
Speaker 1: Me, Feels, like horse uh we're gonna trade for you, because you know get.

01:06:53
Speaker 2: Some leadership here.

01:06:54
Speaker 4: How old are you?

01:06:54
Speaker 1: At this point thirty?

01:06:58
Speaker 2: Six thirty, seven he, said you, know not much. Just be you ship?

01:07:05
Speaker 1: Is jar alrighty there no One who j rider or was he there?

01:07:09
Speaker 2: In two?

01:07:09
Speaker 1: Thousands no one okay when we won j off. With, my, motherfucker listen man this mother.

01:07:18
Speaker 4: This mother bro.

01:07:21
Speaker 1: This motherfucker used to, come to uh, come to practice stay out in, the fucking car.

01:07:32
Speaker 2: Get blown, like a.

01:07:33
Speaker 1: MOTHERFUCKER come in i was all read he did it before games like and feels like and feel know when somebody he gets.

01:07:47
Speaker 4: And uh man and, he Was like but jay used.

01:07:51
Speaker 1: To go out there AND kill, when i say fucking kick Ass This.

01:07:56
Speaker 3: Motherfuckers man jr used to tell when he when he had him. On the, Show, he said shack he used to put money in.

01:08:02
Speaker 2: His locker To. Go at, Kobe oh yes jack would pay him To.

01:08:06
Speaker 1: Go at kobe.

01:08:09
Speaker 2: Oh he bro this mofu was like.

01:08:14
Speaker 1: Back.

01:08:15
Speaker 4: In the day we have A Guy.

01:08:16
Speaker 1: Named dennis, hobson mm hm He's Playing. At ohio state they brought him in just they brought him to, uh GO ahead m j and Practice Him. And Pete, myers. Pete myers motherfuckers hey ruthless loved them brother. To, the day yes we talk, all, The, time, sir, yes, sir okay yeah Just just.

01:08:41
Speaker 2: Those laker. Teams laker Teams.

01:08:45
Speaker 1: Oh one phil calls me, and he, said you know we, we're gonna trade uh, trade for you, and you know just come.

01:08:56
Speaker 4: AND be you.

01:08:59
Speaker 1: I was at a Bar, are IN orlando and i bought two rounds for everybody at. The fucking, BAR i'm, LIKE i see, I look GONE i. Got, covid, Shack now okay i'm gonna. Get, me one yeah. Go.

01:09:15
Speaker 4: Out there man.

01:09:18
Speaker 1: And we struggle the first during, the REGULAR season And i remember shaq coming up to me, And, HE said man i apologize of bringing you to this ship because. We, were struggling bro. We were struggling, but after this the old old, one, season one okay when we and you want One. The chip okay we we struggle during the Regular season, and, i'm like man. Don't don't apologize we. Figure ship, out and man when we went, into, the playoffs man we. Hit, that ship man we swept every fucking team In, The of sacramento portland And In.

01:10:06
Speaker 3: Uh san Antonio but that sacramento. SERIES was tough I remember.

01:10:10
Speaker 1: That sacramento series that's the no we swim that wasn't that was so, that was no that was that. Was before me next, year was yeah. That was yeah But we know web and all of Them on. That, we listen Man that's when Web we thought well was Going to leave sacramento because he was. A free, agent but man and then after we swipt and then.

01:10:39
Speaker 2: We had.

01:10:39
Speaker 1: Ten days off ten days off before The finals with shaq.

01:10:44
Speaker 2: And their team that might not be. A good thing, oh it, Wasn't he said.

01:10:48
Speaker 1: Oh, It, wasn't no. No It wasn't we uh we, practiced one, day Went hard and field gave us the next day off practice another day gave it that all through. Until, the finals man we never fucking. Party so Hard Me. And Rick fox rick fox went.

01:11:11
Speaker 4: Out one night.

01:11:14
Speaker 1: It was four thirty, in the morning and he wanted to go to another fucking bar and we had, like, A ride, Right, I said rick i'll, be Right back bro i'm going. TO the bathroom i wouldn't gotten, THAT fucking, limbo i said. Take me home he must have came from the club to the, fucking practice practice hair all wild and shit. Smelling like booze and that's the kind of shit. That we did we were so. Popular that year WE'LL go to i forgot the name. Of the club everybody was there Itself for, Shacking covid Right, tyron lou beatshall all of us over here is Uh The late jerry buss his Crew Over Here century. Club, gardener EATON yeah something i forgot the. Club, is happening yeah he. Was.

01:12:14
Speaker 3: OVER here Yeah i mean i'm in college, at This time so.

01:12:21
Speaker 4: I'm in.

01:12:22
Speaker 1: THE same spots. I see y'all and then You had the.

01:12:25
Speaker 4: Lakers right.

01:12:26
Speaker 1: Here, stupid, man listen man. That shit was it was. Some, great times man it's like.

01:12:34
Speaker 4: Great great times.

01:12:35
Speaker 1: You get, your, fourth RING though what i mean what?

01:12:37
Speaker 3: Is that like you get three straight and you go through some ups and downs and close a, couple of times and you and you Get back with shaq And the young kobe and you guys.

01:12:47
Speaker 1: Get number four one of the BEST feelings because i did it WITHOUT uh M, j and pip BUT you, know i Had of course shack and co being and the rest.

01:13:01
Speaker 2: Of the crew.

01:13:03
Speaker 1: Just to be back there having a, parade the, city you know giving. You love grace it was just like whenning. The, FIRST three man, i love. It love it what's what's? The young cold? Like locked in when you, say locked in? It's locked. In, different, LEVEL listen man i Remember Playing Against san antonio, shack files, out you know me, Being the, veteran i'm, like, oh fuck, okay all right you know you got. A young COLD i mean i. See the, potential, i'm. Like, Oh ship okay cole walked to. The fucking bench, MY fucker said. I got this this motherfucker go out And Dunking, On David Robinson Tim tim duncan, like It's nothing brou he took over the fucking game. And we, won i'm like THAT'S from. M j Ship that's. What i'm speaking THAT'S some. M j ship Because of course i've seen HIM. With m j but, OTHER than that i. Haven't, seen it no, being, first hand man if an Some, ship happened, shaq vice versa if Something, happened to Kobe we know, shaq Got us but kobe. Will sta man he was. That beast bruh people don't even know how much work he put. INTO his craft i remember you used To tell, me HE'S, LIKE m b i. Need NUMBER six like i said at the TABLE. With m j he, was so obsessed bro with being the best and getting. That, SIX thring man i think one of the happy days of his life when he uh one.

01:14:51
Speaker 2: That number five here's one. Away he listen he was.

01:14:57
Speaker 1: He wanted.

01:14:58
Speaker 4: To be that if, he could have he would.

01:15:00
Speaker 1: Have, Got seven yeah and that's THE one thing i respect And Loved About. Kobe bryant man he brought it. Every single night he would just LET you know i, DON'T like you i don't give a, fuck about you and then go and take. Care. Of.

01:15:18
Speaker 3: Business yeah different so you finish, up your career you Go back to orlanta, for one year you get A young Team Mac and doc rivers as.

01:15:25
Speaker 1: The head coach what do You See In? TA mac man i thought it was Gonna Be Another Penny. Man Tea. Maackage oh man one of the MOST aggressive scores i have ever ever seen. And played with whenever he wanted to take, over a, game HE did and i remember watching them on the tube when He. Was in houston scored, like eight. POINTS ten points I think against santatonia was twelve points in like forty three seconds or. Something, Something stupid yeah and That was THE tamac that i played with in.

01:16:07
Speaker 2: Six,' nine jump, out the gym jumper no hols, in, His.

01:16:11
Speaker 1: None none none and, when he wanted to, when, he desired to man he would lock your ass, up, on defense too man BECAUSE he was JUST i.

01:16:20
Speaker 3: DON'T think i don't i don't think he gets. THE love he deserves i, don't, SEE why not man i mean it was so.

01:16:26
Speaker 1: Good man he was he was. A fucking beast. MAN i'm TELLING YOU i. MEAN i I Played i mean grant. Hill, was there too yeah and.

01:16:35
Speaker 3: You Were Supposed, to, get tim duncan right but doctors and bullshit where a girlfriends weren't allowed on the planes.

01:16:39
Speaker 1: Or wives weren't allowed let mother. Get, on the plane listen let his whole family. GET on the plane i would have had her fucking. Find the motherfucking plane she would be where you want to go.

01:16:51
Speaker 2: To Get that dude with.

01:16:52
Speaker 1: Grant And, and t mat hey we would have got. You, NUMBER five man yeah i.

01:17:03
Speaker 3: Need to get high, WHEN you look back I, Mean Obviously, Four Championships, all star all defense YOU play With, M, J and Pip, Yeah penny And. SHAQ shaq and code i mean when you sit back and. Look at this ship now you're twenty years nearly nearly twenty years of, moved from the game what do you think.

01:17:27
Speaker 1: About Just, Being blessed man god just Just a journey that i've taken IN terms of my NBA career With, M j And, Pip shack And, Penny kobe And shaq Gping. And carl the mailman just been in The presence of such hall Of famers and. Future, HALL of famers uh i can't. Ask for anything better. This ship has.

01:18:03
Speaker 2: Been IT was great if i not, to disrespect my career But.

01:18:13
Speaker 1: Who KNOWS where i've been i WOULD be or if i didn't, play with those guys had the opportunity to play with those guys because each and everyone instilled in me. A value, about BASKETBALL, YOU know even gp i was telling talking to, A, FRIEND, OF. MINE shit gp g gp.

01:18:41
Speaker 4: Ain't like the practice this motherfucker come in there.

01:18:46
Speaker 1: Practice in five minutes he brings his ass and get into a hot tub or a cold tub, and, just sit, There yes he, say and you know come out ten to fifteen, minutes late, for practice you know just. Run through the drills but the most respectful thing about that when he stepped on that. Fucking court time ago yeah. He was that Leader yeah? What was carl like you got, him, at the, END obviously but yeah i got the mail. MAN at the end i loved. Him as a TEAMMATE, but he and gp they couldn't get that. Damn train to offense they could not get that there, because out of respect those two guys have been the focus of their team offense and then now you have to come in and you have to, play a certain role and it was it was very difficult and he. Got frustrated at time. But, still great guys yeah. FAVORITE part about retirement i have a fourteen year old well She'll, be fifteen in april and my youngest. Son just turned thirteen. Spending, time with. Them man oh gosh.

01:20:14
Speaker 4: And just to travel.

01:20:19
Speaker 1: Just to wake, up in the morning have a cup of coffee and not be you have to be here at a certain. Time and just relax i'm enjoying life at. The, Age of, sixty. MAN so great.

01:20:37
Speaker 2: Beautiful i love it any regrets on, In your, playing career?

01:20:42
Speaker 1: Oh, man any REGRETS no because, IF i had any i wouldn't be sitting. HERE talking to. You i love it you.

01:20:51
Speaker 3: Started your own podcast let's talk. About that real Quick what's it?

01:20:54
Speaker 1: Called? Legends in session okay and it had to take these guys too fucking years to convince. Me to DO it BECAUSE when i when i put my my heart, and soul, into something you know it's all about me and my mindset. Of giving, something back YOU know it's a i. Show that we recognize it's called it's uh, the whole of legends where EACH of my guests i Put them In, the hall of legends give. Them a nice trophy we just, talk, about the, upbringing childhood their careers, what they're doing now, stories, about you, know eighties nineties basketball. Things, of that, nature nothing nothing crazy but just.

01:21:47
Speaker 2: Stories that the.

01:21:48
Speaker 4: Fans and the.

01:21:49
Speaker 1: AUDIENCE you enjoy it. I fucking enjoy men i SIT there and we i mean, some of, The time all right charles OAKLEVELAND.

01:22:01
Speaker 2: We talk about.

01:22:04
Speaker 1: I don't know how we got on the subject Of.

01:22:08
Speaker 4: Being.

01:22:08
Speaker 1: In the south, baptism, he was like man the pastor put. Me IN the water, WHEN i came up i had a fucking. Fish in my.

01:22:20
Speaker 4: Mouth ship, like, that, i'm like okay, okay.

01:22:28
Speaker 2: Ship LIKE that man so.

01:22:31
Speaker 4: I don't see how i don't.

01:22:35
Speaker 1: See how it, happened but you know stuff like that you, give to the audience man that they. THEY haven't heard. Before i.

01:22:42
Speaker 3: Love it quick hitters first thing. To come to, mind let us know give. You a tough one oh this ship?

01:22:48
Speaker 1: Put these IN. Order, Ob m, j brown oh man it's so FUCKING tough that, that. I would say damn I will, say m J first and then i. WILL go with cold i will go with brin no, disrespect To bron anyway because i'm such a fucking huge fan of his longevity and what he brought to. The GAME of basketball but i have experienced firsthand those two those two last album listened. To, Front to back, Yeah Tupac. Bro go tupac, Man that was man. That was my. Dude you meet him we were in the SAME restaurant and then i looked over and then, His BODYGUARD.

01:23:40
Speaker 4: Was Strapped so i was we did this.

01:23:47
Speaker 1: Recognized Game Childhood crush Miss, Jenny Jackson, Jack Man jennie jackson jededi jackson.

01:23:57
Speaker 3: Who Had A story about janet. Jackson that something happened It Was, at the? Pump gallery, right, Nah Who, yeah yeah michael irvin he went to a concert.

01:24:09
Speaker 2: Or, Something, like that. Right oh that's funny.

01:24:12
Speaker 1: One piece of advice you would give A player, Entering the nba today uh.

01:24:21
Speaker 4: Fuck lowd low.

01:24:23
Speaker 1: Management know your role if it's the star where you get the, ball thirty. Or four play it. If it's rebounding defense you got to have a work. Ethic for, this game you know if you can play, it all eighty two that's. A badge of, honor.

01:24:47
Speaker 2: Absolutely last question one guest you would Like to See.

01:24:50
Speaker 1: On all, the smoke oh man who haven't you? Guys had on here because it's such. A big, ASS show one, guy i, Would, say my man pill.

01:25:05
Speaker 4: We gonna need.

01:25:06
Speaker 1: YOUR help With him i see, pip ALL the time like i. Don't, do, That, SHIP like nah pip i see. You on, some ship. Come. On, god damn yeah yeah he do the, same ship to. Me My best, Friend, and i'm like pip come. On my SHOW man you know i. Don't, Do that ship man you're. Gonna, do this, ship yeah. That's it all right we both.

01:25:24
Speaker 3: Got, To, Get, pilled yeah horace, man we, appreciate you grew up, admiring you your, journey everything you accomplished and still being able to get.

01:25:32
Speaker 1: Back to the game now you're in. This.

01:25:34
Speaker 3: SPACE as well man i wish you nothing but the best and THANK you for your, i, appreciate the love. Man appreciate, the brother, all right right, Right give it.

01:25:40
Speaker 1: Up give it up you Can catch Us on all the Smoke YouTube And. The draft kings network we'll. See y'all. Next week mm hmmm