#303 The Truth About Cop Firearms Training: Myths, Failures, and Real Stories

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Hi there and welcome to the

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GUNS Magazine Presents the Guns podcast.

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I'm your host and the editor of guns
magazine, Brent Wheat.

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Thanks for joining us here
on one of the world's

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biggest gun talk programs,
both audio and video.

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As we chat with the interesting folks
who make up the world of shooting.

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Before we get started,
I always ask, please like and subscribe.

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We appreciate that a lot.

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Today
our guest is none other than wait for it.

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Roy Huntington.

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Good morning Roy.

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I'm hardly ever on the show.

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Yeah.

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I want to make you the official co-host.

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And you've you've know,
you're like that teenage crush.

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I've chased you and chased you,
and you just resist.

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I, the only person I do

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what I'm told is, is when my wife
Susie, tells me to do something.

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Yeah. Then I go, okay. Yes, ma'am. Yeah.

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Well, today's show is going to be fun
and interesting.

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We're going to let me let me grab
my visual props here.

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It's these things.

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It's it's leather and it's kydex.

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But mainly we're going to talk about
leather and why leather is still a thing.

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And I know our audience loves
that kind of stuff.

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And, That's one of the reason right there,
because it smells good.

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Exactly.

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Well, you know, it's funny
you say that because

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when I was going through the closet,
you know, the

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the Island of Misfit holsters and holsters
laying around all that,

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I ran across a mist that I ran across
a Mitch Rosen holster, and I'm like,

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oh, that just just, you know, and,
you know, I've got,

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old school friends that say, you know,
Merwin, ships were made of wood

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and men were made of iron, and all guns
were blued and carried in leather.

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And it's like, yeah, I get it.

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But, you know, nowadays we're in the world
of polymer and kydex and, and

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and we've taken great pains to say
there's nothing wrong with that.

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But leather is still a thing
and there's a lot of holsters out there,

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that are leather.

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And you shouldn't
feel less of a high speed

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tactical operator, Delta Ninja,

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because you choose leather. So,

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This is kind of a loaded question,
but, Roy, why do you choose leather?

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You know, I'm old enough to go
all the way back before plastic holsters.

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I do remember pack.

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Myer introduced a plastic holster.

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This was probably in the early 70s,
early 70s,

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and it was more of an injection molded,
you know, like the rubber grips on

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pack My grips.

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It was kind of made
out of that stuff. And,

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and it was terrible.

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And we all laughed at it
and, you know, and it was sweaty

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and it was uncomfortable and, you know,
and it died a natural death.

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And, but then, of course, later on, Blade
Tech,

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Tim Wegner at Blade Tech was basically,
I think, the first guy

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to really cross over and say,
I'm going to make this out of Kydex.

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And in those days
they did one at a time by hand.

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You know, I remember he actually use
the etching pen to inscribe

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on the back of the holster
blade tech fits a browning high power.

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Right. And and you know what?

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I tried, and I found that they worked

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okay, as, like, a range holster,
like an outside scabbard.

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Range holster? Exactly.

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Something like that.
They worked out pretty good.

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They were easy, you know,
they wore the finish on your gun

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quite a bit
because they the dust inside it,

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and you just slide your hold
your gun in and out.

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It would like, kind of grind on it,
but so yeah, I think they have their place

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as the, as it evolved
and I saw more like pocket

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holsters inside the waistband
holsters, appendix carry holsters.

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I've tried them all.

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And for whatever reason it's
some genetic trait of mine.

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They're just terribly uncomfortable to me.

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They poke and prod you know?

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So I've never really been a fan of them.

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I understand their value.

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I understand that that many people
like them, I support them.

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I, I've written up
many kydex holsters over the years.

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I want that side of the industry to grow.

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But for me personally, leather
holster seemed to be more comfortable.

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And as you say,
they just have a little more soul.

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When I have my favorite custom
19 and 11 and a beautiful,

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you know, Mitch Rosen leather holster,
it's like the world's a good place.

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Yeah,

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I, I'm going

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to use that as a pull quote in something
because it's absolutely true.

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And, you know, that was one of the points.

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I was I'd kind of jotted down
that, that the heritage and tradition

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and there's nothing wrong with heritage
and tradition, so long as it doesn't

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impede you in any way.

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And when we're talking leather holsters,
as long as it's

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a good quality
leather holster, it's not impeding you.

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And in a lot of instances, it's,
it's actually helping you.

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So that's what we wanted to talk about.

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And, you know, it's interesting,
I have seen

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because there are diehard
leather holster people.

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I've had this holster for 25 years. Right.

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Well, that's a really bad idea
because holsters wear out.

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Exactly.

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And I remember there was a guy
who had a Glock and a leather holster.

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He sat down in his car.

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The Glock went off right. Well,

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then he analyzed that and he realized
and he showed a picture of the holster.

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And this thing should have been
thrown away ten years before.

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You know,
the seams were like falling apart.

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You know, and stuff like that.

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And so, it wasn't a holster malfunction.

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It was an owner malfunction.

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And people say, oh, well, kydex,
you know that.

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Does it wear out like leather?

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Well, au contraire, it does.

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You know, and it can crack
and it could chip.

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And, you know, the
where the screws go through can can crack.

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The rubber bumpers will dry out, you know?

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And so all this stuff has a shelf life.

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It really does. Does.

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And I think a lot of people
don't realize that

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because we all have what,
a box of holsters.

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Exactly. The island of misfit holsters.

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There aren't really many people
I know who carry

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one holster, one gun all the time.

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That's all they do now.
If they do, they have a lot.

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I have a lot of respect for them.

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But most people, I now carry
this gun for the next few days,

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and then maybe I'll go to this one,
or I just bought a new holster.

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I'm gonna try that
because we're all, what?

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Always looking for the perfect holster.

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Yep. Which doesn't exist, by the way.

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So it does not exist.

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And, you know, there's,

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something about

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the character and how leather ages, and it
it makes you feel like,

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you you can see the experience

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you've had together with your holster
when you, when you have it.

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Now, I'm not saying keep
it till it's worn out, just like you said.

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But when you see a holster that's broken
in real good fits your gun good.

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Got a little bit of wear.

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Might have a little bit of sweat
Mark on it.

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It just inspires you that.

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Yeah, I've done this before.

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We were a team I trusted.

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I trust my gear, and, I know that's

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all kind of zen and and all that,
but but there's something to that.

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I'm confident in what I'm carrying,
and I know if if something happens, I can.

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I can use it effectively.

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It's friendly.

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I mean, I it's to me leather is analog.

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Plastic is digital. Right.

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So we have digital tools

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and they work and they do
a lot of really interesting things.

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But we also have analog tools
which do have, I think to me a bit more.

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So I pick up my plane in the shop
and I plane some wood.

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You do feel that more
of a connection and more of,

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you know, you just you feel good about it.

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But what I turn on,
you know, the power Dremel tool thing

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and grind something, and I'm just doing
the work is all, you know?

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Yeah, yeah, there's no soul there.

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You can I say one thing, though,
speaking of soul,

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the everyone always picks up a holster
and smells it, right?

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They do. Most. They do. Right? Yeah.

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And and they always go,
oh gosh, I just love that smell

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of the leather holster
and all that kind of stuff. Well, yeah.

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Well,
I retired from the police department,

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but what made me say before that I decided

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I wanted to make leather holsters
because most of us go through that phase.

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I found out that it was harder
than it looks.

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It's expensive to have all the tools,
but it gave me good insight.

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So when I retired in 98
and went to work for Banki International,

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I was their national law enforcement
sales director.

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But part of what I did while I was
there is that I would go

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spend days on the production floor
and work with people to learn how.

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How did we make holsters, right? Yeah.

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And so I did all of the jobs were there,

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and it was really fun because there were
a lot of his mostly Hispanic people there.

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And, and they there's

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first time anyone from the front office
came out and spent

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all that time with them.

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And so they're if oh,
I don't know if you can hear Kasey's

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barking at a fox or
something in the background.

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And but I had a great time,
and it was really interesting because it

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it dawned on me then because leather
by itself really doesn't have any smell.

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And so, yeah, that that wonderful smell
you smell in

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leather is the treatment,
you know, the chemical treatment with.

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All the deadly chemicals.

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Okay.

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It's the chemical treatment
when they tanned the leather.

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Yeah. Which has its own distinctive
kind of smell.

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And then at Bianche they used an oil
that was sort of invented

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and formulated by John Bianchi,
with a very distinctive you.

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Oh, that's a big holster smell. Yeah.

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And they went so they would just dip
the holsters in this oil

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at a certain point in the production phase
and then sure enough, you know, would

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when I work to area
where you bag the holsters, right,

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you pick one up and smell it
and it's like, there's that holster, so.

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Oh, gosh,

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it smells so good while you're smelling
all the chemicals and everything. Oh,

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that's funny because

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everybody thinks,
oh, that's such a traditional and and,

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you know,
just hearkens back to a lot of things,

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and you don't realize
you're smelling bad chemicals.

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And smelling the polish and the Frito
sizing and the all, but I made it.

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It's distinctive,
and it is nice that it makes us feel good.

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So what the hell it does?

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Because I was going to say
I defy you to walk into a leather shop.

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Whether it's just leather

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goods in general, a holster
shop, attack shop, anything like that.

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As soon as you.

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As soon as that smell hits you, it's like.

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Yes. Like when you go in, it.

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Smells like the ages. Yep.

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I, you know, I live in a in Missouri
and there's a lot of cat

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stores
and cowboy western stores and stuff.

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And you're exactly right.

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When you walk in there,
if there's a saddle display, it's like,

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you just like you can

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say one more thing about leather holster,
which is kind of related but not related.

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I, I used to go to the Great Western gun

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show in the Pomona,
and I used to sell leather holsters.

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Right.

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I was connected, I had industry contacts,
I had a lot of leather holsters, and

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people would always come up to my table
and pick up a holster and squeeze it.

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Right.

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So here's like this form fitting molded
leather holster.

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They would pick it up and squeeze it.

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And I never understood why it
I used to say, why are you squeezing that.

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Because that has nothing to do
with the holster or you did.

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It's not toilet paper.
Yeah. Oh, you're squeezing the Charmin.

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Yeah.

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All you're doing is distorting it,
you know. Yeah.

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And they say, well, no, you know,
I just wanted, you know, it's

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there was no answer.

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And I equate
those people are the same people

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00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,560
who when they go to a gun store
and they pick up a box of brand new

234
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,720
Remington 230 grain, 45 ACP ball ammo.

235
00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,360
They have to peel the end flap open

236
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,800
and open it up and pick one up
and look at it.

237
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:04,640
Yeah.

238
00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,960
And then in the process,
they usually tear the end flap, right?

239
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:08,440
Yeah.

240
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,960
Which now means that the guy who owns
the store has to sell that at a discount.

241
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:14,240
Yeah, right.

242
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,720
So don't be that guy.

243
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:16,960
Yeah.

244
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,320
I got to admit, Roy, in the past
I've done that.

245
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,600
I know I we all I never yeah.

246
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,280
It's like, yeah, I guess you want to see
what you're getting, but I always buy it.

247
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,080
If I won't open something
unless I plan on action.

248
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,160
Or at least have a real serious,
thought about buying it.

249
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,680
So let's talk a little bit about leather.

250
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:38,320
And I want to take great pains,
which we, we do pretty much every week.

251
00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,360
And I think most people get it,
but we don't

252
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,400
we're not fanboys of
of virtually anything.

253
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,600
We like leather. We love leather.

254
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,680
But we see the point for kydex
and all that.

255
00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:51,880
But having said that,
leather does have some drawbacks.

256
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,320
And let's just touch on that briefly,
because I think where,

257
00:12:55,680 --> 00:13:00,040
I can be a good instructor is
I've done everything wrong over the years.

258
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,840
I've made every mistake.

259
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,560
And just by the grace of goodness,
you know, I've I've survived it all.

260
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,680
And I've also destroyed
a bunch of holsters.

261
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:11,600
So, you know, leather is even though
it's treated with, with those chemicals,

262
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,080
it's a natural product
and it can be destroyed.

263
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,240
And, and I think, water
moisture is probably the number one way

264
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,320
either your sweat,
which is horribly corrosive,

265
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,480
when you get leather soaked in
and basically brine

266
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,640
and then dries out,
it just is horrible on leather.

267
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,240
Or of course, getting it wet in the rain.

268
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:37,440
And, you know, I've fallen in rivers, I've
fallen in lakes, I've fallen in puddles.

269
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,280
But, you've had even more experience. You.

270
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,800
I didn't realize, of course, before you've
you've worked out of leather shop

271
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,240
and make your own, talk
about some of the ways

272
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,440
that people destroy holsters
and how they can prevent that.

273
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,720
Well, the first thing they do that's bad
is they for some reason,

274
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,720
they think oiling
a holster is a good idea.

275
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,640
So if you have an old fashioned cowboy
pouch holster,

276
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,520
you can put some kind of leather oil
on it.

277
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,600
And more than anything,
but if you put oil on a formed holster

278
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,760
like this, then you're going to end up
with a deformed holster.

279
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,080
You know, it'll soften it.

280
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:15,120
Best thing, honestly,

281
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,800
the best treatment for a leather holster
is a good old fashioned shoe polish.

282
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:20,080
Rubber gloves,

283
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,880
you know, Kiwi brand waxy kind of shoe
polish that works really good.

284
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,120
And then get a little brush
and rub it into the stitching.

285
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:32,160
Because that keeps the stitching from
drying out, and then breaking ultimately.

286
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,400
And, the other thing to do,
and you were exactly right,

287
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,920
is if your holster gets wet, like, soaking
wet, like it's

288
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,680
you pull it out from your inside
the waistband holster

289
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,680
and it's like sopping
wet from your hot Florida day.

290
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,560
Or you do your fall in the swimming pool
or the lake.

291
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,680
Like you said,
the very worst thing you can do

292
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:56,720
is force it to dry fast or with a
blow dryer or put it in the oven.

293
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,840
Yeah, or something like that,
because it'll turn it brittle.

294
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:02,840
And it will start to break it down.

295
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,440
So the best thing to do if that happens is
if it's sweaty, it's okay.

296
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,440
You can rinse it off if you want to,
but that's not really critical.

297
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,480
But if it's a fitted holster,
the best thing to do is get the gun

298
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,040
that it's fitted for.

299
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,200
Wrap the gun in Saran wrap,
put the gun in the holster,

300
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,400
and then just let it dry.

301
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,560
You know,
don't put it in the sun or anything.

302
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,080
Just let it dry and then you'll find it.

303
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,000
Holster the leather has a memory
and everything will be okay.

304
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,000
After that if. Yeah. Did we
you know. Yeah.

305
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,840
I'd forgotten that.

306
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,680
I correct me if I'm wrong.

307
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,200
Either I dreamed this or was real.

308
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,000
There was a couple of holster
manufacturers

309
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,160
that their holsters were so tight that
that's one of their breaking instructions.

310
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,040
Was what?

311
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,840
The holster wrapped the gun in plastic
and leave it set.

312
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,240
You know, overnight or however long
it takes the leather to dry.

313
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,280
Did I dream that up
or was that a thing? No.

314
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,240
Yeah, that was a thing for some holsters.

315
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,240
I know Mitch Rosen's
holsters are fit like that.

316
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,920
They're fit like a less spare 1911.

317
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,040
It's called a hard fit.

318
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,600
And so, you know, less is funny.

319
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,120
He always says,
people say I can't open up my new gun.

320
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,440
Let's say Jack. Good.

321
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,200
It's supposed to be like that, right?

322
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,120
You know,
he says, take 500 rounds and it'll break.

323
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:16,400
And now it's set.

324
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,960
And, matches.
Holsters are like that there.

325
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,200
I mean, you almost can't get the gun
into a new, holster from Mitch,

326
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,360
but he sells a product
called Leather lightning, which is.

327
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,680
I'm not sure what I think
some kind of a silicone based lubricant.

328
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,400
And you put that

329
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,640
on the inside of the holster,
and then you can get the gun in, and then.

330
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:35,480
So basically,

331
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,600
he says, along with
some other manufacturers,

332
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,760
just basically
put the gun in and out of the holster

333
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,840
a whole bunch of times,
and pretty soon it fits beautifully.

334
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,960
It a lot of holsters, if they fit, like,

335
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,840
really easily initially, then of course,
like you said, leather's natural.

336
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,520
So it's going to stretch out
like a pair of shoes do.

337
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,520
And so then you're going to have
a little bit more play than you wanted.

338
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,240
Maybe. So yeah.

339
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,520
There you go.

340
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:01,560
There you go.

341
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,760
Well, take care of your holster.
It'll take care of you.

342
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,160
And the only thing I'd add is,
products made for,

343
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,120
horse tack, saddles, bridles, things
like that.

344
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:12,960
You need to be a little careful.

345
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,880
They're focused on keeping leather
from drying out and being brittle.

346
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,040
So it can kind of be a little too oily.

347
00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,040
But for the most part, most of that stuff
is a lot better than the,

348
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:27,280
the stuff you buy at Big box Wally
ville and, you know, as leather treatment.

349
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,840
And I've not had a lot of good luck
with that.

350
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,960
But I go to the farm store and, everything
from my boots to my holsters.

351
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,960
I've got some special patented

352
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,000
miracle goo
that, seems to do a pretty good job on it.

353
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:40,200
Yeah.

354
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,480
No, I agree, but again,
like I said, just good old fashioned

355
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,480
Kiwi shoe polish, keeps it alive.

356
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,880
I, you know, I think one of the things
about leather, at least for me too,

357
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,760
is that I think the fact
that if you get a, like a strong side

358
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,440
leather concealment scabbard
or you get one of the old fashioned,

359
00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:01,640
Roy Baker's pancake holsters
that you used to call them, you know,

360
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,840
they were kind of biggish, but

361
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,480
and they were a bit uncomfortable
when you first wore them.

362
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:11,480
But but over time,
they do form themselves to you.

363
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,360
And then they become comfortable,
and they are, like you said,

364
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,360
they're like an old friend.

365
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:18,720
It's like, oh, you put your holster on.

366
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,640
It's like fits in those right
where to sit.

367
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,640
Yeah, it knows right where to do

368
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,800
and and that's where Kydex won't do that.

369
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,800
You know, there was a company
and a what were they, 1776 leather.

370
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,280
I think it is 17.

371
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,000
Yeah. 9117 9191. Yeah.

372
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,720
I can't remember the name, but
that they have a pretty innovative thing

373
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,480
that they, they made
what it was essentially a holster blank.

374
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,280
And then you would,

375
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:50,880
use it to fit your gun.

376
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,840
You put it in hot water,
you mold it around your gun, right, right.

377
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,600
And so then it would fit your exact gun.

378
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,960
Maybe you've got an accessory on it
that's not normally on a gun.

379
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,320
And, and so that was a bit unusual.

380
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,360
I know they're still out.

381
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:07,200
I think they still do it.

382
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,840
But that gives you some versatility

383
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,880
that you wouldn't have
without, like, a hard fit kydex.

384
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,800
So, no, but you can have a gun
that you can or holster.

385
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,680
You can form to your particular gun.

386
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:20,920
But it's still leather.

387
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:25,560
It's still comfortable, you know, it's
still, it has all of those attributes.

388
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:27,800
I mean, that's the only thing.

389
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,360
And I know people are going to comment

390
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:32,200
and say that we're we're idiots
and we're fudge, and we don't know

391
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,120
what we're talking about.

392
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:37,360
And I'm just saying this applies to me
is the kydex being kydex.

393
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,200
And it's strong and it's stiff.

394
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:42,200
I just find it

395
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,360
difficult
to get it to be comfortable for me.

396
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:45,960
Yeah.

397
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,960
You know, they never sort of break in.

398
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,040
Yeah, yeah.

399
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:55,080
Well, let's let's move on
and talk about choosing a leather holster.

400
00:19:55,080 --> 00:20:00,280
And, this one I've been playing
with, as we've talked is a, a Falco brand.

401
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,400
And Falco has been a great friend of ours

402
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,000
and sponsor,
and I hadn't really heard of them.

403
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:08,880
They're a European of, company.

404
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,880
They've been involved in leather work
for a long, long time,

405
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,360
and they make a lot of holsters,
and they're really coming on strong

406
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:16,640
in the United States.

407
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,480
And, I grabbed one of these holsters
as a good example of a good example.

408
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:23,760
I'm not even sure what this one's for.

409
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,360
I just got it the other day, but,
as you said, Roy, it's it's stiff and,

410
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:33,360
really thick leather, good quality
stitching, no loose threads.

411
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,480
It's not got a cheap snap. And that's.

412
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,320
We can almost do an entire show on snaps
because there's everything

413
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:45,600
from the garbage you get off of,
say Amazonian to good quality.

414
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,520
That that major league holster

415
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,520
manufacturers
use for their thumb breaks. But

416
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,200
it's a bottom line of spend a little money
and get a good quality holster.

417
00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,360
Whether you do Mitch Rosen, Falco
or any of gal co, I mean, there's a whole,

418
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:02,480
bunch of good

419
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,480
holster options out there, much more
so than there used to be.

420
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,360
But, I think my big tip
for selecting a holster, aside

421
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:14,680
from what what pleases you and fits
well and is useful, but spend some money.

422
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,960
A good quality holster is not inexpensive.

423
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,680
And, you know, like Roy said, we're always
looking for the perfect holster.

424
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,440
It's even worse
if you find the perfect holster

425
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,560
and then realize, well, it's
a flimsy piece of garbage and,

426
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,560
you know, then you end up
spending the money all over again.

427
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,520
So that's my big thing is, is
you look at the price of a good quality

428
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,640
holster for any of the mainstream
manufacturing, and I go, wow, it's

429
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,840
kind of expensive for a piece of dead cow,
but it's worth it.

430
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,040
It is worth it in the long run.

431
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,840
In terms of their longevity and how they,
safely and securely hold your firearm.

432
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:50,680
Well, you know, it's the old,

433
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,840
if buy
a motorcycle and they buy a $10 helmet.

434
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,320
And so so people say
if you have a $10 head,

435
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,320
then by $10 a helmet, you know,

436
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,440
I mean,
I owned a gun store for a while, and, and,

437
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,480
and I worked in a gun store for a while,
and, it never cease to amaze me.

438
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,040
People would come in
and spend 800 or $1000 on a gun,

439
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,680
and then they would go buy a $8,

440
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,320
you know, soft nylon holster.

441
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,000
Yeah. Yeah. And
and it was that same thing.

442
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,000
They would say, well, well,
I'm not gonna spend $100 for a holster,

443
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,400
you know, and there's no convincing them
otherwise there really isn't.

444
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:34,680
Yeah, I know in the early days there were
there were, there were some small

445
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,000
kind of one man leather shops,
you know, custom really in the early days.

446
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,920
And but they weren't real popular.

447
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,080
I mean, people tended to still price
point shop and the whole concealed

448
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,720
carry thing wasn't like
it has been over the last 25 or 30 years.

449
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,160
And so people tended to make
do with what they had, you know,

450
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,320
and, Hunter holsters,
you know, you'd get a ban, you'd see him

451
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,840
cut down and tighten it up and,
you know, things people did.

452
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:07,080
I mean, you know, then Banki, Neil Perkins

453
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,520
is safari land
and the early days of Gaucho and,

454
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,320
and a handful of other ones came out
Kirkpatrick leather.

455
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,360
So there was like about eight,
maybe or ten

456
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:21,200
big shops, you know, they were there.

457
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,120
They may have started

458
00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:25,920
as custom holster makers,
but they became production holster makers.

459
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:31,760
And I think that was the first time
that high quality leather

460
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:36,320
at an affordable price became available
to the general gun buying public.

461
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:37,080
That was,

462
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,960
you could get the Bianche catalog
and there were holsters reliably designed,

463
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:47,560
you know, consistently manufactured of
good quality, that were affordably priced.

464
00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:51,840
And I think that was the beginning
of the evolution of people understanding

465
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:52,800
that, you know what?

466
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,840
There is something to this
and that there there are people who know

467
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:56,440
what they're doing,

468
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,600
and there are people who don't know what
they're doing, you know? So,

469
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,360
you know, and of course, like I said,

470
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:05,880
I learned how to make holsters
and knife sheets and all that.

471
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,080
And it was really interesting.

472
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,360
More than anything, it taught me
what goes into a really high quality

473
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:15,240
holster, that there's a lot of thought
that's just not a piece of leather.

474
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,280
And some stitching.

475
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,280
I mean, there's a
there is a lot of design elements

476
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,440
and elegance in sometimes in the most

477
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,560
simple holsters that Rebecca, makes,
I think

478
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,800
arguably some of the most elegant holsters
ever made.

479
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,080
And there is a minimalist
as humanly possible.

480
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,360
I mean, it's
almost like you take everything away

481
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:42,760
that doesn't need to be on a holster,
and you get it to your holster.

482
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,440
And, and they're esthetically pleasing
and they perform.

483
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,200
And I think that's something
you need to look for.

484
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,840
So, you know, when you jump on the website
of this holster maker and there's

485
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,760
gazillions of designs all over the place,
always be thinking about that.

486
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,200
It's like, you know, what do I need to do?

487
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,520
What what do I need to get rid of?

488
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,480
That's going to be the most basic thing
I can use to get my job done

489
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,840
here, you know?
And that's the one you start with.

490
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,320
But you're still going to end up
with a box full of holsters.

491
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,280
I was going to say that

492
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,280
that is, one of the points
I didn't really write down.

493
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,080
But it's absolutely true.

494
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,440
You just have to accept the fact
that, you're going to have holsters

495
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,240
because you get one, and it's pretty good,
but it's never perfect.

496
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,000
Or you'll buy one that you're absolutely
sure is the greatest holster ever made.

497
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,960
And it turns out to be a piece of garbage.

498
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,440
So it's just part of it.

499
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,800
Don't be afraid to, you know, experiment.

500
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,320
Don't be afraid to experiment. Kids.

501
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,600
You know,
you will find one that works good.

502
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,800
And one of the worst things in the world
is when you get a holster.

503
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:47,440
This is it.

504
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,800
I found the perfect holster, and
you carry it for a long time, and then.

505
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,200
And then it's
kind of getting long in the tooth.

506
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,480
I need a new one.
I don't think. Quit making it.

507
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:55,760
And that's just awful.

508
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:56,960
It's really true.

509
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,400
Well, you know plus people your
your attitude changes, your likes change.

510
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:02,360
You know, you decide to.

511
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:03,920
Carry your waistline, your.

512
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,840
Waistline changes. Yeah.

513
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,960
Suddenly that inside the waistband
holster just doesn't quite as comfortable

514
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:10,840
as it used to be.

515
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,480
But yeah, you know, you think, oh, well,
I'm going to be oh seven and carry

516
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:15,440
in a shoulder holster.

517
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,680
You try that for a while
and you realize that that's uncomfortable.

518
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:19,600
Right. Or that yeah.

519
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:20,920
Well now I'm going to go strong side.

520
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,680
Now I'm going to go across straw.

521
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,160
Now I'm going to try pocket carry I'm
going to try appendix carry that I mean

522
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,840
you know the list is all virtually endless
because in every one of those situations

523
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:36,320
there's hundreds of designs, you know, and
and that's why I think it's interesting.

524
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,360
I know a new I'm sure you've had this
happen where I was editor hand gunner.

525
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,760
I would get a letter to the editor
or an email.

526
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,480
I have a 38 revolver.

527
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,880
What holster should I get?

528
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,240
Yeah, that's a start.

529
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,840
Yeah,
there's a lot more to talk about there.

530
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,080
What model?

531
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,960
What what job do you do with it?

532
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,840
What's your life style?

533
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,000
You know, what are your expectations?

534
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,760
Is it a defensive gunner's at a hunting
gun? Is it?

535
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,680
You know, I mean, the list goes on.

536
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,400
And so the
so the moral of that story is that

537
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,760
you have to play that game yourself.

538
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,880
So you go to the store
and buy this new pistol, and then you look

539
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,880
at the guy behind the counter and say,
which holster should I get?

540
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:25,440
Well, don't rely on them to ask you
all these questions because they'll just

541
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,520
reach over and get whatever holster
they sell next and say that one.

542
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,440
Yeah, that's the best holster, right? Yep.

543
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,240
Stop taking my reputation on it.

544
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:34,680
Yeah.

545
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,560
I mean, stop and think,
okay, I just bought this gun,

546
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,960
for concealed carry.

547
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,760
Will I carry it concealed? Yes.

548
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:44,400
All right.

549
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,400
Do I wear a coat? Usually? No.

550
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,200
Am I right handed?

551
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,240
Will I want to carry it on my right side?

552
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,200
Probably.

553
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,120
You know, inside of my belt
or outside of my belt.

554
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:56,920
So, see, you can eliminate those things.

555
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,720
And finally, just by rote,
you're going to end up with

556
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:06,840
sort of a series of, of, of circumstances
that you can then learn

557
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,680
you need to apply those to deciding
which holster design, you know.

558
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,440
Then when you jump on the Bianche website,
you can go right hand

559
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,600
outside the waistband, thumb brake

560
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,400
revolver, you know, and now you're

561
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,360
looking at the genre holster that you want
so that you can do that.

562
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:26,760
You don't have to be an expert. Look,
we just did it.

563
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,000
And we're not experts. Yep.

564
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,520
We're
I'm I'm an expert at making mistakes.

565
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,800
So this is all, school of hard knocks,
you know, university of life.

566
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:37,920
All been there.

567
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,880
And you know, I wrote the handgun
leather column for about eight years.

568
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:47,280
Before I before I joined the air
or handgun or as editor, and, and I.

569
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,880
Man, I saw every holster that came down
the pack, you know, and at the time,

570
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:52,800
most were leather.

571
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,200
I mean, there were some people played
with other things.

572
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,840
The early days of kydex sewn holsters
from canvas.

573
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,840
And, you know,
you never knew what I was going to get in

574
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,760
some really oddball things.

575
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,320
Metal holsters.

576
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:06,880
You know.

577
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,720
Yeah. And, and but it really served.

578
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,200
I was fortunate
because it gave me had this wide exposure

579
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,680
to all kinds of carry ideas and whatnot.

580
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,960
But the thing that I think stuck to me
mostly is that there were

581
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,880
some basic tenants that work strong side

582
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,680
vertical, simple scabbard type holster.

583
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,040
Right? Yeah. Open top, but form fitting.

584
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,040
And it's pretty bulletproof.

585
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,960
And if you look everybody makes one.

586
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:38,760
You're right.

587
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,520
And there's a reason everybody makes one
is because it works right.

588
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:43,920
Yeah.

589
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,040
You know a strong side thumb break.

590
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,800
There's a reason why
everybody in the world makes one of those,

591
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,600
there's a belt slide style holster,
which is kind of a minimalist

592
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,560
kind of a holster.

593
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,760
Everyone makes one of those, you know?

594
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,600
And so, yeah, when you see these oddball
double reverse small, the back twist

595
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,600
with semi, automatic click, click
and all that kind of stuff, man.

596
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,560
It's they're the only people doing it.

597
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,800
It's probably not a good idea. Yeah.

598
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,440
Well you know, on that note,

599
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,680
I was just thinking,
and I don't even know where it is.

600
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,440
I think it's in the storage unit

601
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,160
with all the holsters that really didn't
make the grade, but I had a

602
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,440
and a a

603
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,960
concealed carry rig for my off duty
when I was at the cop shop.

604
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,440
It had my gun, it had a magazine.

605
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,800
It had a light and a handcuff pouch.

606
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,120
I remember those, yeah.

607
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,000
Yeah, that lasted about two days.

608
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,480
It's like,
yeah, when you sit down, go out, oh, out.

609
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,360
You know. Yeah, it weighs 37 pounds,
you know. Yeah.

610
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,520
I've seen
the Europeans were always good with

611
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,120
they liked the whole idea of the holster
with a bag pouch attached to it.

612
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:54,840
Yeah.

613
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,120
That's a real European thing,
you know. Yeah.

614
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,240
And it doesn't work. Yeah. Does it work?

615
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:00,520
You've got to get it in your hand.

616
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:01,880
Yeah, yeah.

617
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,880
It's like, oh,
I know what you're me. Yeah.

618
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,920
Couple of things I did want to say that,
talking about, criteria for holsters.

619
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,960
I, this is something that gets asked
a lot is what should a holster do?

620
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,160
Do. Yeah. Carry your gun. Right.

621
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,760
But there's there's a couple of things
that, like my friends at gun site

622
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,880
always point out
is it should cover the trigger guard.

623
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,000
And even like, the
the minimalist, summer specials.

624
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,720
Milt sparks,
yaki slides, things like that.

625
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,920
If you look at them,
they cover the trigger guard.

626
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,160
And that's to prevent your chapstick from
end up shooting you in the in the leg.

627
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,760
And then a holster
should hold the gun against one.

628
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,720
Gee, now,
if you've got a level three security

629
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,960
and you can do calisthenics
and stand on your head, that's great.

630
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,600
But for real Earth people,
especially those just carrying concealed

631
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,760
or a hunter, it should hold your gun
without the retention device for one.

632
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:59,720
Gee, that means if you end up on
standing on your head or upside down, as I

633
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,120
sometimes have had to happen,
your gun should stay with you.

634
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:04,880
Because I've told that story before.

635
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,160
There's nothing worse

636
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,080
than chasing somebody
through the woods at night and realizing,

637
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:11,600
my guns are not with me anymore.

638
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,120
So that was the day I learned the value
of a of a good holster. So.

639
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,160
Boy, you're exactly right.

640
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,840
I had an early, ankle holster,
and I was chasing a bad guy one day, and,

641
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,920
it was at nighttime,
and I saw I was running down the street

642
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:26,760
chasing him, right?

643
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,760
And all of a sudden in front of me,

644
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,680
I see a gun
sort of gun dancing in the air, and I.

645
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,840
I just reached out and grabbed it,

646
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,320
and I, I really didn't really know
what was happening.

647
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,280
I thought maybe he threw it at me
or I wasn't sure, and I grabbed it

648
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,720
and stuck it in my pocket.

649
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,000
And then so I got and we got arrested.

650
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,440
The bad guy and all that kind of stuff.

651
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,440
And then it dawned on me
it would come from my ankle holster.

652
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,160
Yeah. You know, it was not good.

653
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:55,440
There was a.

654
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,000
Thumb break ankle holster.

655
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,320
The, you know, and I will say that

656
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,000
the holster was getting pretty worn,
and it was my own stupid fault, you know?

657
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,680
Yeah. Yeah. That brings me the.

658
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,280
I want to circle back to the thing
about really idiotic holster designs.

659
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:13,640
There was a guy who's his

660
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,800
name escapes me, and so does
the name of the holster company,

661
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,720
which I would say if I could remember it,
but the.

662
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:20,880
He used to stand

663
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,440
at the shot show and demonstrate these
every year at the shot show, and it was,

664
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,680
he called it a duty holster for police,
but it also could be used

665
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,120
as a concealed holster.

666
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,720
And it was this real,
this mechanical conglomeration.

667
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,760
And how it worked was
you had an auto pistol

668
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,760
and you would put the magazine
in your auto pistol,

669
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,960
and you would put it in the holster
without it, the round chambered.

670
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,560
And so he his contention was it's
100% safe.

671
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,120
You and you're right.

672
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,120
It is you know for the bad guy.

673
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:55,440
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

674
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,840
And so his contention was now
when you need to deploy your gun,

675
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,160
you would push the gun down
into the holster

676
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,440
which would rack the slide.

677
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,320
And then when you when you pulled it out,
then the round would chamber.

678
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,800
And then now you could do your business
right.

679
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,520
And well, I just I stopped that,
I looked at I looked up at him

680
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,280
and I thought I looked around
for the candid camera.

681
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,040
You know, I kept thinking as Alan Funt,
if you remember him,

682
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,720
good to come out and say,
ha ha, you're on Candid Camera, right?

683
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,360
But no, it was completely legitimate.

684
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,000
And you know what was interesting
as he went to the shot show for years

685
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,800
just to demonstrate this, and
I never heard of anybody ever buying one.

686
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,960
I never heard the dealer
ever starting one.

687
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,280
I yeah, you know.

688
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,360
That's that's bad ideas
layered upon a foundation of bad ideas.

689
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:46,080
Oh, Lord.

690
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:46,600
It was

691
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,520
he sent me one
because I was writing the hand

692
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,720
got leather column and I just
I couldn't even write.

693
00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:53,680
I just went, nope, sorry, put it in a box,
set it back to him.

694
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,440
I thought, well, maybe there's something
that I didn't know.

695
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,840
That actually reminds me of something we
used to do with GI leather flap holsters.

696
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:03,000
We used to compete in

697
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,960
Mexico against the federales
and people like that.

698
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,480
They had this thing
called the El Presidente.

699
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,800
And so you would put your back
to five to our silhouette targets.

700
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,960
And then on the command, you'd turn around

701
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,240
and you had to start with a empty chamber,
automatic.

702
00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:24,520
And so you would pull the gun out,
run the slide, and then shoot it.

703
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:25,560
The five targets.

704
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,560
Well, now one of us on our team

705
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,160
figured something out or knew some old guy
that used to do it or something.

706
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,440
So we got old GI flap 1911

707
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,440
holsters
and we cut the flap off and and what?

708
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,840
But what we found out
and evidently it was a thing that if you,

709
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,120
if you picked the pulled
the gun out, rotated the, the butt.

710
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,880
So it's 90 degrees pointing out to your
right if you're right handed,

711
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,400
and then you push the gun down
into the holster,

712
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,160
it would actually rack the slide, right?

713
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,040
Oh yeah. Don't try this at home, kids.
Okay. Yeah.

714
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,800
But and then you pull it out
and then it would chamber around.

715
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:11,200
And so so we did the, you know, position
of with your hands like this and beep.

716
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,280
And as we turned around we just
reached down and we came up firing.

717
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,680
Well of course they were all like going
I caramba.

718
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,360
You know what?

719
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:22,240
What?

720
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:22,640
You know.

721
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,640
My the rules are different south of the.

722
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:26,120
The rules.

723
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,520
And I guess I'm saying that just
it's it's a funny thing, but also,

724
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,880
you know, don't that's
probably not a good idea.

725
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,480
And so if you see a holster design
that says, oh,

726
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,040
and you do this and you do this
and you go.

727
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:38,920
Yeah.

728
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,040
You that's keep. It and keep it
simple, stupid.

729
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,680
And I'll be the stupid in that,
that question.

730
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:44,600
It's true.

731
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,600
So I am a leather holster carrier.

732
00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:52,440
The only time I, I don't use
leather, is with a pocket holster.

733
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,480
I generally don't use leather.

734
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,840
I usually use some kind of,
you know, softer synthetic.

735
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:00,560
I don't use kydex.

736
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,880
I've tried it,
and they're just too uncomfortable for me.

737
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:03,720
Yeah.

738
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:06,120
I have found,
I can't remember the name of it,

739
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,760
but they used to make a
it was a holster out of horse hide,

740
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,800
which is kind of impervious to the water.

741
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,480
And, so I use one of those
as a pocket holster for a while, so.

742
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,720
But other than that, if I put a holster
on my belt, it's it's leather.

743
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:23,160
Yeah.

744
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,440
And the one thing I wanted to touch
on, we're running out of time here, but,

745
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:30,240
hybrid
holsters, kydex and leather together.

746
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,800
I'll have to say,
I've got a bunch of them. I've just never.

747
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:33,920
I'm not saying they're bad.

748
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,920
I personally
just have never seen the point.

749
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,720
They've never really solved
any problem for me.

750
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:42,960
And I think personally,
I think they're butt ugly.

751
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:45,000
So I've just never been a fan of those.

752
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:50,400
But I know, crossbreed was, you know,
or is a big proponent of those.

753
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,080
And I've got buddies
that just swear by them and they are,

754
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,080
you know, the best thing
since sliced bread.

755
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,240
I'm not saying they're not.

756
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:57,120
It's just for me.

757
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,240
Never been a fan, but,
your thoughts on them, Troy report?

758
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:01,240
Oh, you're right.

759
00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:05,160
It's it's a it's it's like,
not the best of both worlds.

760
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:05,960
Yeah.

761
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,960
You know, but but they do seem to work.

762
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,280
Crossbreed makes a good holster.

763
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,000
I've written them up.
There's nothing wrong with them.

764
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,560
Yeah, I personally don't find them
esthetically pleasing.

765
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,440
When I was at Bianche, we.

766
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,640
I was there while they developed a product
called the accu mold.

767
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,760
And what that was, was it was a
I think it was a three layer synthetic.

768
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,800
So there was some kind of a hard liner,

769
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,040
some kind of like a neoprene
kind of, mid, you know,

770
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:36,720
product.

771
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:41,160
And then what looked like, sort of canvas,
but it was,

772
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:46,160
ballistic nylon, whatever
that is, you're right on the outside.

773
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,400
And then we would, we would hot mold these
to fit certain guns.

774
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,600
And so they started out as police duty
type guns,

775
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,400
and became very or holsters very popular.

776
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,560
Actually, I carried someone I was on the
harbor unit, so it was like thermo molded.

777
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,560
It wasn't kydex. Right. And,

778
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,640
and that actually worked out
pretty good as

779
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,560
we sold it so well
to, to the military, to the government

780
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,000
that we just started to make actual mold
consumer holsters.

781
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,000
And I have to say, it was not

782
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,040
bad, you know, in other words,
it was it was quiet.

783
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:22,120
It was comfortable.

784
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,600
It form to you. It was a lightweight,

785
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:27,200
you know, it fit the gun.

786
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:32,640
Well, I would say the only downside
was that it wore relatively fast.

787
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,640
So if you bought a concealment holster
with a thumb break

788
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,640
and your gun was in and out of the holster
every day,

789
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,160
did you take it off,
put on your belt and stuff like that?

790
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,440
You'd get about a year, you know,
and then you had to buy another one. So.

791
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,680
Yep. Well,
that's a good place to end this.

792
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,600
Except I have to make a confession.

793
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,960
Roy, in front of you and the internet
and and the Almighty.

794
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:58,120
I was a huge kydex fan.

795
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:03,280
I was on Swat when, Kydex really became
a thing, and I still have sheets of it.

796
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,560
I almost built a vacuum forming table,
so I built holsters.

797
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,680
I built knife sheets and neck knife

798
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,680
sheets, and I think I made a tactical
pencil holder at some point.

799
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,000
So it's not that I hate kydex.

800
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,000
I just I've, I've been through it
and it has its place.

801
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,360
But, to me in, my, my,

802
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,160
Fudd kingdom, leather is the way to go.

803
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:29,400
So thanks, everybody, for joining us here

804
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,400
on the guns
Magazine Presents the Guns podcast.

805
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,080
Make sure that you stop in and check out
guns magazine.com,

806
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,680
along with our sister publication,
American Handgun.

807
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:39,720
Broadcom.

808
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:42,720
That's where you can continue
to read all of our great in-depth

809
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:47,600
and non dramatic articles
about all the shooting stuff that we love.

810
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,520
And also you know what Roy
I'd love to buy one of your books.

811
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,880
How could I do that.
Well I'm going to answer that question.

812
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,400
Go to FMG pubs.com.

813
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,240
You can pick up Roy's Insider book.

814
00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:58,800
It's a great read.

815
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,560
Along with John Connor's on Angry Shop.

816
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:05,320
That thing keeps flying off the shelves,
but, FMG pubs.com.

817
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,880
And of course I always say please
like and subscribe.

818
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,240
That's how we keep our phony baloney jobs

819
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:13,320
around here
by showing all of our subscribers.

820
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,440
So if you want to support what we're doing
and we hope you do,

821
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:18,920
make sure you like and subscribe.

822
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,800
Check out Guns Magazine, dot
com and American Handgun or.com.

823
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,120
And of course
sign up for our daily newsletters there.

824
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,040
It's not just enough to go to the website.

825
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,120
You can have stuff delivered
right to your inbox.

826
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,880
So Roy Huntington,
thank you for joining me for yet

827
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,880
another entertaining,
and interesting discussion

828
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:42,240
here on the guns
Magazine Presents the Guns podcast.

829
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,080
Of course I am guns magazine editor
Brant Wheat, reminding you yet again.

830
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,200
Now get out there and get shooting.