Ep. 310: These Are The 2025 WINNER And LOSER Trucks!

[SPEAKER_01]: Merry Christmas, Andre.
[SPEAKER_01]: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just, well, Christmas is coming up in just what a few days.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is our holiday show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're doing a little pre-emptive new year show here because we figured that next week we'll be talking about what we're looking forward to seeing in 2026.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this week we're going to be talking about winners and losers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, because it's been a very eventful year, a very exciting year, we've done a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've driven across country with many times this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you have, in hurricanes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I drove across country in a Bentley.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, that's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: As you know, I'm normally I'm on the CarPodcast, but a case is racing, drag racing, Tommy today.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got our newly acquired Porsche 997 that he's racing against
[SPEAKER_00]: Aston Martin vantage those two cars directly compete and so they're up at the race track So I'm kind of standing in form.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited to see that drag race.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, me too Because those cars directly compete, but we're here to talk about trucks But it's segue.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you talked about drag races.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've done so many drag races this year with trucks And also we started something new that we wanted to do for a very long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: We drag race trailers
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, trucks with trailers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we called it to tow off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to be talking about that when we get to winners.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's even bigger news that we need to share with you all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is the TFL truck of the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: As you've been watching all our videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have now gotten to the end of the TFL testing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Andre, you in case didn't accept your job.
[SPEAKER_00]: really excited to watch those videos and I'm really excited to find out what the TFL truck of the year is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're listening to this today, then you'll have to wait till Saturday to come out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're watching this or listening to it on YouTube tomorrow, then you'll know.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we won't spill the beans on what the TFL truck of the year is.
[SPEAKER_00]: But tell me kind of what you did and how we're going to pick the or how you in case are going to pick the winner for the truck of the year.
[SPEAKER_01]: well this is for twenty twenty six and we're really really focused on the full-sized segment yes so i mean it'd be kind of weird and we've never done this we've never combined in one competition trucks from different classes like we never compare the maverick to a super duty before as far as truck of the year it's like four of the vinegar
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we want to focus on a class.
[SPEAKER_01]: We focused on full size half-tons.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this was a GM-1500.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a GMCCR in this case.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had a RAM-1500.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had a Toyota Tundra and a 4-defun 50, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you had all the full size trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the half-tons.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Nissan Titan is no more.
[SPEAKER_01]: So unfortunately, we cannot include it in this particular one.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then we did several testing tests, and we wanted to remove our opinion as much as possible out of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so you wanted to make it objective, not subjective.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so we really wanted to be numbers data-driven, real world-driven, so we did a Nikon, that world stuff is telling test.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did a Denver 100 MPG loop and then we also did the drag race with all of these trucks and we've published You could see some of these videos already.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can go to TFL truck that TFL truck YouTube channel and you could see it right there and then you assign points based on how they did exactly
[SPEAKER_00]: That is some comprehensive testing and I want to thank all the manufacturers for sending trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a big lift.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a big lift and getting all those trucks for a period of almost two weeks because it took a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to kind of blow our own horn here, Andre, a lot of publications, pick cars of the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's all these top 10, top 50 lists, but very few of them do such comprehensive testing, where we've actually with the Ike, of course, you're doing towing testing.
[SPEAKER_00]: with the number 100 you do in fuel economy, which is huge if you're using this as the biggest tool in your toolbox, and with the drag races you're doing performance testing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you combine all the three of those, you assign points, and you get an objective number.
[SPEAKER_00]: And an objective winner as opposed to us picking the truck that we like the most based on, you know, artistic color or something else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's a kind of the TFO away, and it's hard to do because the manufacturers don't necessarily
[SPEAKER_00]: The love, what they would call this direct competition, I mean, they don't like, they don't like direct competitions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because they're not controlling it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, one's going to lose one's going to win, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the chances are you may not, they don't like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they don't like instrument testing, because once again, you're putting stuff up against
[SPEAKER_00]: a clock in this case, or, you know, against the fuel pump or something, or how many break applications you have, and that's where the tire hits the road, and so sometimes it's hard
[SPEAKER_00]: for us to get them to agree so that's why i'm thinking of them for doing that because you know we put all these trucks through a battery of tests and we're gonna find out which one of those trucks came out on top i'm can't wait and i don't know what the winner is because you in case of done the number so we are publishing or you're publishing a video over a TFL truck tomorrow uh basically summarizing all the testing and then picking la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there's going to be fireworks in our producer Ian promised fireworks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's been working hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, he didn't promise.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's been working hard at editing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'm excited Andre and I hope that you guys like it because if you like it, the next year will pick a different segment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking mid-sized trucks and we'll do the same thing if we can get the manufacturers to provide the trucks and if we can get you guys on board.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, please go watch it, please comment on it, and the more successful it is, you know, the more likely we'll be able to repeat it next year.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also next year, just kind of a hint to the end of this episode, is I'm expecting next year to be just insane.
[SPEAKER_01]: especially maybe the later half of next year because there's a lot of rumors about heavy duty trucks, you know, getting some updates, even from John Motors and some others, and there's a rumor of a T-Rex coming back, so next year is going to be crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's going to be fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when you come back next time, we'll be talking about the trucks that we're looking forward to driving and seeing in 2020, six.
[SPEAKER_00]: So shall we get on with the winners and the losers?
[SPEAKER_00]: But before we do that, Andre, I have an idea for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's that?
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was reviewing the Infinity QX60.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yesterday I was doing our just this just end, which is basically when the manufacturer sends us a truck so we do our vehicle in this case in SUV.
[SPEAKER_00]: We kind of do a first impression review of it and publish it to TFL now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I noticed that it had a towing package.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, no way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it had to go back to the total 66,000 pounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no brain control.
[SPEAKER_00]: 66,000 pounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 66.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it's like a semi truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Infinity is really crushing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Six thousand pounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I was sinking to myself and Ian actually that we've pretty much Ike every Traditional truck there is a hike.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you think of a truck?
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a night and also we've Ike every pickup truck with every engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's available.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we're kind of we're kind of running out of trucks to hike And then of course we're the only ones that are actually doing this kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: total testing in a regular basis over time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so since we've done all the trucks with all the engines, I thought it'd be a good idea to actually do SUVs now or let's call them big crossover, three-row SUVs, three-row crossovers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the past we've done that as you know, it hasn't exactly broken the needle in terms of how many people watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Cole, can you pull up a car,
[SPEAKER_01]: like recently did well yeah yeah so that was uh pretty interesting actually there goes and and the passport actually crushed it dude yeah did really well on there I gone like and thank you for having her for giving us a long term loan because yeah because to do all this testing it's hard to do in a week which is how long we usually get the cars for anyway I was thinking through myself
[SPEAKER_00]: People use three-row SUVs, especially the body of frame SUVs, you know, the big ones like Armada, if you're in the Nissan world, or Tahoe, you can, all those, suburban, or if you're an infinity, the QX60 with the 66,000, no, 6,000 pound, toning package.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought to myself, we should also do toe testing on these because I think there's not a huge percentage of you guys out there, but, you know, if you buy a three-row, the chances
[SPEAKER_00]: the horse trailer, or you may be towing a side by side, or you may be towing a bolt with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of the next step down if you're not getting a truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a butt.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was talking to you about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the butt is that doing a night takes a lot of time and effort.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as you know, if you've been listening to us or some the other YouTubers, the YouTube model is changing and the amount of work
[SPEAKER_00]: that we can put into any video and get a decent ROI is getting harder and harder to accomplish.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when we go and do an hike, it's a big heavy lift.
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a lot of videographers.
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a lot of editing power.
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a lot of money to do these kinds of tests.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I thought to myself, I'm not sure that there's enough interest to be hiking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's call it the Infinity QX60.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't know if there's enough people buying it, that they would be interested in having
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's your bring this up?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I came up with a new test.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whoa, me and Ian actually came up with a new test.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me guess this is going to be the Eldorado Ike.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, we came up with a new test.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the summer, what's the other test that we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: The torture, the toaster, the toaster, the toaster.
[SPEAKER_01]: The toaster, the toaster, the toaster, which is a slow moving, really, really hot test.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the idea is you hook up a truck and then you go up a very steep grade and luckily that grade is not far from here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we don't have to go all the way to Silverthorn.
[SPEAKER_00]: So whenever we do a night, that's a whole day and if we're doing two trucks at a time is your way into the evening, but this one luckily is very close to here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can hook up a trailer, go to the ranch, hook up a trailer, load it up and then go up and down the toaster in a day or maybe less than a day to actually get a pretty interesting video on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe three, four hours.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's the idea, it's a good test.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not because it only overheats the truck or can't overheat the truck, but it's also a very steep grade.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it gives you a sense of how well the truck can aid to up the grade and how well or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can handle the load going down the grade.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought, let's do a winner toaster and call it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready for this, guys?
[SPEAKER_00]: For SUV's, for USUV's, not freezer.
[SPEAKER_00]: The freezer?
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, the freezer.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the summer we do the toaster.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the winter we do the freezer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think of that?
[SPEAKER_00]: That is amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is your first reaction.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the first time you heard of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you on the other day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking, I did not see the freezer coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though it is, well, 70 degrees.
[SPEAKER_01]: 70 degrees in December.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no power of older because of the winds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is also called the sunshine canyon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, you know, that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So why not call it the sunshine toaster?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's not a toaster, it's a winter thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a freezer, we do it in the winter, and we do it with three or less UVs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what happens when it's summer?
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we do the posters.
[SPEAKER_01]: The posters?
[UNKNOWN]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, you heard it here first.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're interested in this test, you have to search for two words, either freezer or toaster.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the summer, it's a toaster in the winter, it's a freezer.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all about the kitchen, really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we take up three or less.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've eaten the first one I thought we could do, is that infinity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we have school.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, would you be up for doing that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I would.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, stay tuned for the freezer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to thank Matt Zidro.
[SPEAKER_01]: He he's here on Patreon.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, we're live on Patreon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for support Matt and Matt.
[SPEAKER_01]: his comment is so dear to my heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did he say?
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, keep with the objective data.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can always test drive and subjectively assess a truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I appreciate that you bring what you cannot do during the regular test drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Matt.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Matt, that means a lot to us.
[SPEAKER_01]: That means what we're doing is actually somebody appreciates.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a whole idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you encompassed it beautifully.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, freezer.
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah freezer freezer towing test yeah and they'll try next week even that's supposed to be 70 degrees by the way uh there's powers out in Boulder yeah uh and i almost got tea bond uh driving to work today oh geez yeah the lights are not working the lights are out but one you know when the lights are out usually goes to a flashing red right uh there was nothing uh completely nothing but
[SPEAKER_00]: still it's you know there's a stoplight there yeah so of course I pulled up to the stoplight even though it's not flashing or doing anything and I stop I look both ways and I start crossing the street and the guy coming from my left just blows right through it and almost teabull me like I came within maybe three feet of hitting me that's crazy
[SPEAKER_00]: Luckily, I had that Bentley with a 12-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cylinder-cy
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about winners.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're going to have some disagreements here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're talking about trucks that have done well or will potentially do well in our opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then of course we're going to talk about trucks that are losers, which did not do so well this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you want to start with your list and then I'll add to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So start with your list and we'll we'll talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's maybe do one winner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just don't do all the winners and we'll do all the losers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I put down the RAM 1500 with the hurricane engine is a winner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because well, partially because I've had so much experience with this engine this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Colony, producer, Colony, we drove a warlock.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wait, that was a V8, wasn't it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so never mind, but I also drove a hurricane, two-wheel drive truck across the country.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've tested it, a hurricane truck was participating in our truck of the year contest.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did the ram rebel 1500 hurricane review that had 50,000 miles, which is quite a lot of miles for a truck with one year, that's one year old.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a great engine, it's super smooth and very powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to me, the kind of the poster child for the hurricane, of course, is the R.H.O.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I got to say Andre Ford did a 10 years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I gotta say something else.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Four did 15 years ago, they introduced the Raptor, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But, well, 2017 was when the first EcoBoost Raptor came out, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm just saying, I'm just saying, four did it first and they did not just, it was one engine, but they did it was two, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They did the three, five and the two, seven.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're talking about basically a twin turbo charge, six cylinder.
[SPEAKER_01]: In this case, I thought you were talking about the R8 show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I'm talking about the power train and the RHO.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I mean, it is a straight six.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is turbocharged, but like I said, it's kind of like something.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of rewarming what Ford did ten or even better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's more powerful.
[SPEAKER_01]: The RHO has 540 horsepower, which is a lot, which amazely high output EcoBoost is 450 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll give you that, but I think if Ford wanted to, they could crank up the the boost but they haven't but they could afford where are you and they might So I'm just saying it's it's a good engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I completely agree with that is some good video there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's you flying through the yeah, I was flying.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Alex our co-worker old co-worker Alex and I, where were at this event on Michigan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were flying.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the RHO has been a mild success, but like you said, the reason for being a mild success, both with the engine and with the power train, is that Ford did it a long time ago, and they're kind of copying Ford, and they're in some ways copying themselves, too, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, well, it's hard to go from a TRX.
[SPEAKER_00]: to a R-H-O when you go in from over seven and a horsepower to a mere 500-ish, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it didn't create the waves, I think that the RAM was hoping, because it was meant to be a replacement for, or at least it was, you can't perceive to be a place with the TRX, but it was down to 100 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also it does have the noise that the TRX makes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's another problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: The hurricane is very quiet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's very quiet.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fairly efficient.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you're efficient, you're also quiet, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're inefficient, you're loud and you're yelling.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what the T-Rx was.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the R-E-T-O,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a pretty good truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, call an I just drove it in Michigan, another IH truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that video is coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what, what do you think your second take on it?
[SPEAKER_01]: You just, he was a fully loaded one.
[SPEAKER_01]: How much, do you want to know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how much?
[SPEAKER_01]: 97,000 dollars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so basically more than the first TRX we paid for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, you you paid for the company.
[SPEAKER_01]: 77,000 for the first year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like four years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that had a few options on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now you're paying 98,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: 97.4 in our show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, fully loaded though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, fully loaded.
[SPEAKER_00]: We remember this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have when we disagree on the the Honda that we've got coming up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just remember that, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: What else is the winner?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's else is on your list?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we purchased a truck this year, which is a net 150 tremor, but the winner is the engine, actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the five litre coyote is not new.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been around for a very long time But you and I've tested the heck out of this truck We did MPG loops on the Denver 100.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did towing tests and it's just a great engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're all around So I might disagree again, but I think it's got a great sound that verbal isn't great
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, it was a disappointment.
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's underpowered because you look, you think that you're going from a Six cylinder like a 3.5 liter.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because you're spoiled by terminals, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You think you're going and you're getting this big old V8 and yet when you actually start talking with it
[SPEAKER_00]: It really is working hard whereas a three-five in the Ford EcoBoost F-150 is just like, hey, no sweat whereas the coyote is really working hard and you can really feel it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So remember we borrowed this trailer in Salt Lake City and we towed it all the way back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was like, how much did that thing weigh?
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like an adventure.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a 7,000, 7,000 pounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought like the five leaders struggling at times, it was because it has to rev up to make all of its power, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's revving really high.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing that disappointed me is, that's the same engine right that's in the Mustang.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet it's detuned.
[SPEAKER_00]: by a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's tuned differently.
[SPEAKER_01]: Detuned to, to, to, to, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you could say differently, but it putting out less power than it does in the Mustang.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the Mustang, it puts out, oh, I should know this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or on a 90 horsepower, and this is 400.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so now you're basically down 25% from the Mustang.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I understand why, it's going to, you have the same power that you have in the Mustang.
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand why, because a Mustang will never tow a trailer and it's a lightweight car.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think in that case, it's pretty easy for them to kind of get the same reliability out of an engine and actually making it a lot more kind of hierarchy and power there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the truck you want torque, so I think what they're doing there is they're giving that engine a little bit more torque down low and then also detuning the power so it can
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you're actually exactly right, but it does leave kind of you wanting some yeah yeah some some money on the table in this case horsepower table, but I put it here as a winner and I kind of agree with you it's it's it's working really hard towing a trailer, especially in the mountains, but
[SPEAKER_01]: It kind of surprised me because a V8 in my mind is something that's really thirsty, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But actually this engine's been really good on our MPG testing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the EcoBoost is actually thirsty here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, in real world.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this coyote is actually, you know, don't discount it for being like a Tondra V8.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's the other interesting thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember reading a start that about 10% of F-150s come with the with the with the coyote.
[SPEAKER_00]: How many 10% I think it's closer to like 20%.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be, but it could be wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not a huge, it's not a huge.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was surprised by that because I remember, maybe it's just a vocal minority of you guys out there all wish you had a V8 because all the comments whenever we test the EcoBoost or you know, an R8 show it.
[SPEAKER_00]: for all of the kind of gnashing of teeth and bringing of hands only two out of ten of you by the actual coyote to be ate the rest are getting either the six cylinder or the two seven the three five you know I mean there's a lot of other choices in the four line ups and so it's interesting that it's such a low take rate it's kind of like stick shift transmissions everybody wants a stick shift but at the end of the day no it's like less than 10 percent now yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's keep going, Andre.
[SPEAKER_00]: What else do you consider a winner?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we've been, you guys been asking for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the viewers and listeners have been asking us to actually put some real weight behind trucks when we accelerate and do some drag racing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we did that, tow off.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Cole, maybe you could look up one video at least, where we did some heavy duty tow off.
[SPEAKER_01]: drag racing which is really hard to do because we have to have multiple trailers at the same time and we thank goodness we got pretty lucky and we did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you guys are great I mean you have to get the track the track doesn't like us doing heavy vehicles yeah we have to get matching trailers and so that that was also a heavy lift some really proud that we were able to do that I'm proud of you Andre nice work and that was a
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we did it with heavy duty trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also repeated it with full size half-ton trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was really fun and we learned a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was really cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: And hopefully we could do some more TFL tow-offs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe next year, focus on the mid-sized trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, heavy duties would be really hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unless they're all new and then we'll be forced to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree that that was a winner of a series of TFL talk.
[SPEAKER_01]: What else you got I put down hybrid pickup trucks Yeah, because Well, a loser was EV truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about it later But really we owned a Maverick this year That was a winner.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was one of our favorite
[SPEAKER_00]: It was my favorite truck of the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was my everyday driver and unfortunately my mom passed away this year earlier at the beginning of the year and then I had to clean out her place that she had and I used that little maverick a lot to haul a lot of stuff and it was surprisingly easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it doesn't have a very tall lift over right because it's such a low truck and it hasn't incredible payload.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I remember I had 1,400 pounds of payload for a maverick, that's more than our
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so it was very efficient.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was all-wheel drive hybrid.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also the F-150 hybrid that we recently tested is also quite a good pickup truck for a hybrid.
[SPEAKER_01]: Toyota coma and Tundra hybrids are less of my favorites because they're not super efficient.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're kind of, you know, they're very powerful, but not very efficient.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a head scratch or so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most people, I think, at this point associate hybrids with fuel efficiency, I think that's fair, especially Toyota hybrids.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then for some unknown reason, Toyota decided that in their trucks, instead of making them more fuel efficient using the hybrid system, they're going to make them more powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you think that a hybrid Tundra or hybrid Tacoma will get crazy MPG.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it gets like one MPG better than the non-hybrid.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's very confusing in terms of where it's positioned within the brand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of why I called out some of the Ford because I think Ford is doing it better as far as hybrid and pickup trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also it's weird because with the Tacoma as you make this trade-off which you don't seem to do with the forwards, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the trade-off is you're adding a battery which is heavy, so you're decreasing your payload and you're increasing your weight which is bad for fuel economy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then instead of getting more fuel economy, all you're getting is slightly
[SPEAKER_00]: And but it's offset by the by the way it's a battery in the loss of the payload.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't seem to be a trade-off worth making when it comes to the hybridization of the to a truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: I those are a little bit of a hard strategy to me, but do you want to move to this one?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure because you put
[SPEAKER_01]: Tacoma on the other way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I put it as a winner because I think they did what they needed to do to keep it the best selling truck in the land.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the next truck, I should say.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it actually is crazy, successful, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're selling what?
[SPEAKER_01]: How many, 200 plus thousand?
[SPEAKER_01]: A year?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think they're on a record-breaking pace.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think they may sell more than a quarter million trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tacoma's this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just jump quickly to a loser because we're talking about Toyota.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that Toyota's reputation for reliability took a giant hit this year, especially with the tons of the tons range.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you recall, and with what happened with our Tacoma, which was very public unfortunately, but that's what we do, where actually, we broke a front diff by off-roading it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of people in the industry are asking themselves this question,
[SPEAKER_00]: making a trade-off in its long-term reliability versus its short-term profits.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that is a conversation that's kind of quietly happening in the background that maybe hasn't become public yet, but you know, listening to the people in the industry, I'm hearing those questions asked.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you recall 200,000 Tundra's.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not just recall them, these are engine replacements, which is a pretty striking recall.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we'll see.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, time will tell.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the question of course that we're asking is first they were called a hundred thousand.
[SPEAKER_00]: than another almost kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: They still have recall the hybrids.
[SPEAKER_00]: The question is why would the hybrid engine be any different than the non-hybrid engine?
[SPEAKER_00]: It does have obviously electrification, but the engine is basically the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the
[SPEAKER_00]: thing I'm wondering is Toyota just slowly rolling or slow rolling the recall because they knew that even the hybrid engines were bad or could potentially go bad but they didn't want to announce 300,000 or whatever the heck it is in one go instead they're doing it in chunks to kind of try to make it possible to actually make the recall because putting 100,000 new engines in
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to take years and then, you know, if you have to do it for the high words as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying they'll have to do it, but I'm just asking that question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that the shoe that's yet to drop?
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Toyota wasn't the only one that had a recall this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, for oh my god for the broke all the records but number of recalls.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get to that in the losers All right, let's talk about this next one because me and you had a heated argument about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I put down the ridge line and you made fun of me as a winner Yeah, you taunted me.
[SPEAKER_01]: You said you say well first of all the ridge line wasn't updated this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: No
[SPEAKER_01]: and a rich line and whenever we test one and actually I like the way drives, but people make fun of us because they say it's not a real pickup truck because it doesn't have a frame.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I put it as a winner because this is one of those is the glass half full or half empty and I think it's half full.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a truck to keep soldering on that if you know you know people keep buying it.
[SPEAKER_00]: to hunt ourselves about what 30,000 of these every year, it's been around forever, it's very well engineered, it's the truck for non-truck people because basically if you look, if you don't look in the river mirror and you don't know that it has a bed, you could be driving a pilot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, it's it's really comfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: It also has a little bit wider than a Tacoma, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So which means there's a lot more elbows base.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It got those magic seats in the back that you can lift up the bottom cushion and throw a bike in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't even have to use a bed.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got a tailgate that opens up two ways that flips down and folds out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has just a lot going for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually so much so that we've
[SPEAKER_00]: Ask Honda after you return the current passport trail sport if we can get it for a long term loan because I think the truck, like I said, is understated underrated and one of those quiet trucks that if you know, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Honda, you can make this way better.
[SPEAKER_01]: to make it a true winner to return a home.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't care about supercharging.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, make it a little bit more butch.
[SPEAKER_01]: The front of the rich line looks like a pilot, an old pilot.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it looks like an SUV from the front.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, it doesn't have enough ground clearance, even on there's some of their trail sport additions, it still doesn't have a lot of ground clearance.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think they could improve several aspects of this and make it just a true home run.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's why I was arguing with you because because because I think it's good, but I wasn't sure, you know, I would call it the total winner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I also think that it has great resale and I also like the price of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about the price.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it starts at $40, $2,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: How much was that?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all we'll drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: How much was our maverick?
[SPEAKER_00]: The hybrid oil drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was the next LTE, that was $36.
[SPEAKER_00]: 36, so for another five $6,000 you end up with mid-sized truck instead of a compact truck you end up with a V6 instead of a four cylinder and you end up with a lot more room and a lot more usability having said that the maverick actually has a surprising amount of room but the bed is pretty tiny compared to the the ridge line.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think the base hybrid will drive Maverick is like 33, 32, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So for 10 grand more, you are buying the rich line but I would say Maverick has way better efficiency.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maverick is, you know, in his better and many respects.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more fuel efficient by far, especially if you get the hybrid.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also more usable if you think that smaller is better, but I think over time the Maverick feels a little bit
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say cheap, but there's a lot of cheap plastics.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of cost cutting that you don't necessarily feel in the ridge line.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think like the Tacoma, the ridge line will have a higher resale value.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's also another sign of a winner because people know that this is a truck that they can hold on to for a long time and then get not lose their shirt when they go to sell it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we did kind of lose our shirt on America, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that was our stupidity because we sold it back to the dealer.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we basically lost $7,000 in less than half a in about three quarters of a year Because we bought it for what 37 and we sold it back for 31.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe 38 When you we know when you put it all the dealer fees and everything else so we lost 7,000 in about seven months 1000 a month On the man you mean 5,000?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, 7,000 36 minus 31.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was with 37 when it was all said and done including taxes
[SPEAKER_00]: including like destination and all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Don, thank you for joining again, Don, Don is here on Patreon.com slash TFL cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, thank you, Don, for Don had a comment about F-150s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ford doesn't sell the K-U-R-E, but they are the first of the lots.
[SPEAKER_01]: You say Ford doesn't sell.
[SPEAKER_01]: We said it's about 20%.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure that the first after lots.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think, I don't know if there's a way to measure that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's anybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never seen a stat where they measure what engine is the one that's sold first.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say you have the two, seven, and the three, five, the coyote, and the six cylinder at the dealership, which one is the one that's going to get sold first?
[SPEAKER_00]: I would assume that the one that has the highest take rate is the one that's probably going to be sold first,
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't want it with a highest discount maybe could be the one yeah, that's a good point Could be the one that's being discounted.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean we bought ours because it was being discounted It was Ford pricing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was right at the tariffs hit so we bought ours from 60 to 60 a we bought it for 63 But thank you for that comment.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's keep going.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's next on our winner scouting?
[SPEAKER_00]: I put that down scouting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, why because it's the right truck at the right time
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, so the scout terrorist doesn't exist yet, but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's so the scout terror is a range extended vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the scout came out with a truck and an SUV and you could buy it either as an all EV or one with a range extender, which is basically, we don't know what the range extender is going to be, but it's basically going to be a vehicle like the BMW i3 where, uh, the engine doesn't turn the wheels, but a generator electricity, which charges of the battery, which then turns the motor, which then turns the wheels.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when they came out with apparently the story goes that they just kind of, at the last minute through in the range extender and it turns out that the take rate on the range extender has been like 90%.
[SPEAKER_00]: So 90% of people don't want the EV, they want that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that they've hit the top of the wave just as it was cresting, where people are now deciding that the,
[SPEAKER_00]: BV is not for them, but that they want something that gives them good fuel economy and they can tow without having to be recharged every 150 miles or every 100 miles.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that the scout provides that answer, and yes, you're right, it's not going to be here this year, and it's going to be here next year.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it is coming at the right time for a majority of where people are at right now in terms of their electric vehicle choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I gotcha.
[SPEAKER_01]: So scout I just listened to one of their podcasts where Actually they're designer Chris Benjamin who's a really cool dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: We used to know him even from It's a big truck by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also almost everyone fifty sides
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's not a small, cool design, I love the design, but I'm afraid for them because I was listening to another podcast and somebody said that whenever you try to go up against the big three in the pickup truck world,
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, it's almost a losing proposition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they are part of the Volkswagen group, which is bigger than the big three.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, well, Volkswagen is in trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of ways they are in trouble, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they have like nine brands.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you go up against the Ford's, the Chevy's and the Rams of the world, in North America, you better bring your A game.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're brought there again.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know yet because it's going to be, it won't even be built for two years.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is matter they've introduced it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've put hands on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We know what it's going to look like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What we don't know is pricing.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know power train pricing is a huge one.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we do know, I mean, it's out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a concept and it's not a concept by some fly by night group.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're hiring thousands of people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in Raleigh Durham where they're going to be headquartered.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got the support of the Volkswagen Vag Volkswagen automotive group, which you know builds Lamborghinis and all sorts of other vehicles Audi's you know just to name a few and so this is a real thing so I think it's a disservice to say that this doesn't exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: It exists.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean Volkswagen's putting billions behind it
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got, I think, Rivian's architecture, which is great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the ingredients are there, and I think it's going to be a winner if they can build in and if they can keep it under, let's say, hard to say because the economy at that point might be different.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if it's today, I think they'd have to keep it under 60K.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what we'll have coming in at the base model coming in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think realistically it's going to be more like 70, but I think keep it around six to your 70s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they also don't want to compete against Rivian, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they have to come in under Rivian, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think they said they would because that's their goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's going to be a tough slog.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other winner, I put in the ram rev, the racks went to get a range extended vehicle because it's the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like it's the right truck at the right time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Having said that, they keep putting it off.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know what the heck it keeps doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because they keep pushing the can down the road for some reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now their website, the ram website says it's going to be available in 2026.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think they also said maybe first half, but now it's 20, 20 seconds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, it was supposed to come out this quarter, right, and it's not exact.
[SPEAKER_00]: So who knows, I don't know what's going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the still antists, it's just so confusing, because still antists actually does really well in Europe with their electric vehicles, but they really seem to struggle.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the two companies, is it, is it, I always get mixed up, is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Renault or it's Pujo, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who?
[SPEAKER_00]: Atlantis owns Pujo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pujo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so they have they have all Pujo builds all these really good electric vehicles in Europe They've got even a Jeep that's very very well received I can't think of the name of it right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't get it all electric little baby
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a little baby Jeep, but they somehow can seem to share that knowledge with Stellantis here in North America, because Stellantis here with any of the electrified products to Jeep for by ease is really struggling with recalls and with, you know, the Wrangler right now Wrangler for by E, you can't park.
[SPEAKER_00]: in your house, because it could start out fire.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's telling people a park it outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, these are pretty serious issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our friend Nicole just bought the wagon Erass.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a whole nightmare of a thing that happened to her.
[SPEAKER_00]: She had you talking about the Avenger.
[SPEAKER_00]: Avenger, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So somehow, like the electrifying knowledge that Pujo has has not somehow creeped into the engineering team here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the slantess is really struggling with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's the right truck at the right time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just hope that they just...
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm hoping it's slightly delayed because they wouldn't get it right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and if they do get it right, it could be really, really great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's a right truck at the right time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason we say that, we should talk about that, because a rainy standard, you can tell with a cross-a-country,
[SPEAKER_00]: and fill it up at any gas station going and keep going as opposed to having the stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's be realistic about this every hundred miles and charge for an hour which has been the problem with a lot of electric trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the last one I put down is the Ranger Raptor.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's probably the best value in trucks right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: 57,000 dollars for the most capable off-road mid-sized truck you could buy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can argue that maybe the TRD Pro is more capable or maybe the, you know, the Canyon Colorado twins, especially if you go with the AT4X with the AED, AED edition, those could be more capable, but those are all 10 to 20,000 dollars more, whereas the Ranger after at 57,000, it's just a hell of a good truck bargain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I'm still sad, so we sold it, yeah, I'm still crying a little bit inside.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that one held its value.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they're still very valuable actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be the wrap actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, for it, I don't know if they're not building enough on purpose, you know, but I think they should build more.
[SPEAKER_01]: They could be doing the Porsche thing and they'll bring anything and the Ferrari thing where they're keeping the supply low because they need to build more of them because people want them and you can't find them anywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are our winners, let's talk about our losers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's one more thing I wanted to say on the winners.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you get the coyote,
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the great things about it is for a mere $11,000, you can add a supercharger to it with the factory warranty at your local Ford dealership and get over $700 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm mere, yes, I'm lower, I'm lower, I'm lower, I'm lower.
[SPEAKER_00]: But still, that's not bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we paid 63 for ours.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's call it 75, so for $75,000, you can have a $700 horsepower supercharger off-roader.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you've got the tremor version like ours,
[SPEAKER_00]: or a street truck or a street, or doesn't matter which one, you could, you could the both.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And originally the plan for ours was, was the supercharger, but the problem of supercharging it is we're going to spend 11,000 on it, we're going to make a couple of videos that are going to make, you know, let's call it a grand, and then we're going to be having to sell the truck and no one's going to give you that money back when you go to sell, no one's going to care about the fact, unfortunately, that it's supercharging.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of a lose, lose, lose for us, unless you keep it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, unless you keep it for 10 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, then that's a win-win.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, losers.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got Nissan, Armada, Nismo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you call that a loser?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because I really love their Armada, yeah, I love the Pro Forex.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when they created the Nismo, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's, so it's, it's kind of got a, it's got a body kit,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so we drag raised it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So we took it to our air strip.
[SPEAKER_01]: Case was there, you were there.
[SPEAKER_01]: We put it up against the Toyota Sequoia, which is a hybrid.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Nismo wasn't super super quick, I mean it's big and heavy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're combining a sport element with a giant SUV.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just doesn't make a lot of sense right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: In my mind, Andre, and I would include the Maverick in this, what's this, this, this, this Lambo and the Lobo, the Lobo, I would include any truck that is supposed to be or any vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just go in with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's supposed to be the performance brand.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they put stickers on, they give it cool colors, they change the body cladding, but they don't touch the power train.
[SPEAKER_00]: The heart of it is more power.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how can you create something that doesn't have more power and then call it high performance?
[SPEAKER_00]: High performance.
[SPEAKER_00]: That just doesn't compute.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, so the Nismo Armada is supposed to have, you know, the high octane tuning, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you use high octane fuel, it's supposed to give you, you know, set, you know, a little bit more horsepower.
[SPEAKER_01]: A great engine, but it's not enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you saw the QXAD GTR engine at Seema.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the stock, no, that was cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was freaking insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in this mode, you want to make this a serious performer?
[SPEAKER_00]: Stuff a GTR engine like they did for the it's him a show call.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you pull up that crazy Qx80 That Roman saw at Seaman here's a good example of that imagine that you've got the CA Corvette and you've got four variants you've got the Stingray you've got the zeosix You've got the e-ray and you've got the z-R1 now imagine that if the difference between all those or stickers were stickers and a body kit
[SPEAKER_00]: and not going from 500 horsepower to like 700 to 1,000 or 0,1x 1,200.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's basically what you got.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here you have what Nissan should have done from the Gekko, which is stuff the GTR power tree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at those exhaust on drain.
[SPEAKER_01]: That isn't saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: That isn't saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I don't get the knees more modern.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it also has the body kit, but it looks cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got the bigger tires, but it all starts with the power train.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could put better suspension on.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could put fatter tires forward on this video.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at there you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that's an engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you want to see when you look up in this more modern.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you want to see, including the person's name, inscripted on the engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so these guys did it right.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's next?
[SPEAKER_00]: Eevee trucks, except for Chevy and GMC.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why did you say, well, we know why you said Eevee trucks because, well, they're out of favor for their 150 lightning was just announced that they're they're discontinuing They're no longer building at 150 lightnings, but they also said they're going to build a range extended lightning soon, but they didn't say when.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ford took a huge loss on their EB because they were building big factories.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were building, there were factories for batteries, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They also never came to fruition.
[SPEAKER_00]: They broke up that partnership that they had with the factory for batteries.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm wondering if Ford, there's two things that I'm wondering first.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they came to a realization that whatever technology they were working on when it comes, when it came to electrification, was just not going to be competitive in the marketplace.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's how I kind of feel about the lightning.
[SPEAKER_00]: The lightning is V best, I'm not going on a limb.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's V best F-150 you can buy.
[SPEAKER_00]: By far, it's better than the coyote, it's better than the EcoBoost, and I can surprise, it's quick, it's comfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got onboard power.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just doesn't go over it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It rides better than all the other ones because of the weight and because of the rear suspension.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just the best F-150 you can buy by far and yet because of its range and charging that word and charging speed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So technology isn't there where it should be in terms of where the greatest and newest EV tech is right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so maybe Ford came to the realization that the Chinese, as far as he's probably the most outspoken of the major American CEOs that the Chinese are so far ahead that they can't compete at this level.
[SPEAKER_00]: So why try?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that was realization.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe they felt and they've got a lot of people looking into the future of things where they're going And maybe they saw the writing on the leaves and they thought that in America We're definitely not going to go electric so why not focus on what is their core
[SPEAKER_00]: competency, in this case, it's VA's and, you know, hybrids and such.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe that's where that came from.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you're right, I kind of feel like they pulled the plug tour early on the F-150 lightning.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that if they had kept developing it, there would have been a market that would have well, it's also three years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: Three and a half years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they didn't do anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they didn't, they didn't refresh it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They kept it the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: So people just got bored of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said except Chevy in GMC because it seems like Chevy in GMC they expanded the line-ups and they're still doing kind of okay except we don't know the numbers after the
[SPEAKER_01]: after the tax incentives went away.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know how they're doing quite yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you're going to tow with electric truck, those are really the only two, because they have huge batteries that you could actually, so yeah, you know, we also forget this winner.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what else is the winner?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the Hummer EV.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's surprisingly, first there was like a lot of excitement when it first came out, people are all over the moon, and then people decided that it was stupid, and the cyber truck became the toast to the town, and then people decided that that was stupid, and now kind of the big, brash, bold, Hummer EV has come back, and GM quietly kept developing it so that it actually is relatively good off-road, the problem of course is it weighs a ton, well, weighs 9000.
[SPEAKER_00]: pounds, which is more than a ton, but the problem is that as an off-road beast, it's got that huge weight issue, but nevertheless, I think it's kind of become cool again, and I think that's why it's a winner, even though it's a lecture.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, you had a little bit of a street cred again.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got the swagger and I was just talking about this yesterday when we're in Michigan because you see a lot of homers rolling around, especially, you know, north of, well, you know, north of Detroit, but it's, it's so expensive to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what, what, I mean, we, what did the carbon edition homer recently?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like a hundred and twenty two thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, these strategies are like more like $70,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, you know what else is a loser?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or winner however you want to look at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're a scammer, the winner is AI.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're a loser, then no, if you're not a loser.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're a consumer, then I don't know how many times I've seen emails, comments from,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm guessing it's guys over 60 who ask you guys who ask us when is the caterpillar pick-up truck coming what is the giant deer pick-up truck the new giant deer pick-up truck coming what is the new alchamino coming I've seen that I want to take my money GM oh Toyota style is here the Toyota style is here and yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: None of these trucks exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so much noise out there and it's generated by I'm taking guessing scammers who decide that the best way to make money is to fake the existence of a
[SPEAKER_00]: John Dear pickup truck that's going to cost $10,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to have 500,000 pounds of payload and it's going to be available tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: So go and get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go and buy it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go and buy it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all BS guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all fake.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all at least when you see this, this, you know, I made a mistake on dry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that when we started 15 years ago that we would have developed this reputation.
[SPEAKER_00]: for reliability and honesty and, you know, being on top of the news.
[SPEAKER_00]: But apparently, all it takes is a community, and a YouTube channel and an IO program.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can crap out anything you want out there and people will believe it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And nobody seems to like understand that maybe you should consider the source.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know before you go and let's pick a YouTube channel great new trucks and then post it on Facebook and send it to all your friends That there's a new caterpillar truck coming that's gonna be a six by six that you could buy and exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that you can buy you know for 14,000 dollars
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we try.
[SPEAKER_00]: We try.
[SPEAKER_00]: We try.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's such an avalanche of BS.
[SPEAKER_01]: We keep trying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys, here's something that I learned.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you learned that we all learn when we were like 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it's too good to be true, it probably is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It probably is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to just mention Jonathan.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's also in the chat room here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you, Jonathan, for joining.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was just mentioning that the Nismo body kit and the Armada looks kind of silly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it looks like a truck is hiking up its skirt.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does!
[SPEAKER_00]: It does have a longer skirt.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in the back, it's kind of hiking it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like those videos you see on Facebook, where women are wearing way too short of skirts for some reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I know why they're doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, it's the same reason people are putting out caterpillar trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's keep going.
[SPEAKER_00]: Truck recalls.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's been a big one.
[SPEAKER_01]: GM 6.2 engines, have you due to GM transmissions for three calls?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think every single pickup truck had a recall.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I also think part of it is traditional car companies are really good at building trucks, but really better software.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of it has to do with software.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just struggle with
[SPEAKER_00]: coming and building usable software, which is something a test was really good at, by the way, and really in as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then the rest of it is confusing because we've been building internal combustion engines for over 100 years, same thing with transmissions.
[SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of this is maybe because we've gone from six feeds to 10 speed transmissions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now there's a lot more complexity.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, have you seen the instead of a six-speed transmission?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you imagine what a 10-speed
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like a brain, a human brain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so me, and of course now you're adding electrification and you're adding turbocharging and so there's a lot more complexity or in the case of GM, cylinder reactivation, but they've been doing that forever as well and yet these are all things that are constantly breaking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I don't know what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you mentioned, you know, maybe corner cutting or corporate profits, have to do something with a lot of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a cost more money.
[SPEAKER_00]: How much is Toyota paying to replace 200,000 Tundra?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm godly model in the money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what happened to all those engines once he replaced them?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: They sit behind the dealership, they pile up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or do they get sold like co-part what happens all those my god?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what we should do we should buy some of those engines for like what's five bucks Yeah, and create like coffee tables out of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, be cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, little coffee table.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's up 200,000 at this point coffee table So yeah, I recalls and and honestly Andre I think it's so many recalls now four days almost at 150
[SPEAKER_00]: that we're just overwhelmed by and we don't even report it anymore because it just feels like there's so much noise out there that you can't you can't keep up with it and you guys have turned off the volume because there's just so much it's it's it's hard to keep track but also I will say this really quick about the recalls is some recalls are very minor like you see we misprinted the sticker and some and some and some are like don't park your electric
[SPEAKER_01]: Insight, I think you may burn down your house, so there's a variance of significance with those recalls and also a variance in the number of vehicles, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have one idea why this is happening and I'm gonna blame you Tesla.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at you once upon a time when we used to do this a lot Manufacturers would test the you know what out of their vehicles before they would sell them now.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're seeing manufacturing doing what Tesla does and that is
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, some beta versions and letting the consumer, in other words, the truck buyer be the beta tester.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're not, they're basically half-baked vehicles.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you just saw it with Volvo with the EX90 where they actually had a replace like the heart of the car, the computer, because it didn't have enough brain power, and this is expensive stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, it's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is the main computer.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of little small computers.
[SPEAKER_00]: and you're seeing that a lot more where they're just not ready for prime time and yet here we are beta testing.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's keep going.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ineos, quartermaster, why is that a loser?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's on my list.
[SPEAKER_01]: You put it here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you why I'm going for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it got hit with the chicken tax and then it got hit with Trump's tariffs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, so for the longest time, we have not gotten any world commercial vehicles because of the stupid chicken tax, which is a tariff that goes back to the 60s where we tariffed European chickens or they tariffed American chickens and then they responded by tariffing trucks, it makes no sense, it's so stupid on drive, so stupid and it's a 25% of the population in the world, and it's a 25% of the population in the world, and it's a 25% of the population in the world, and it's a 25% of the population in the world, and it's a 25% of the population in the world, and it's a 25% of the population in the world, and it's a 25% of the population in the world, and it's a 25% of the population in the world, and it's a 25% of the population in the world, and it's a 25% of the population in the world, and it's a 25% of the population in the world, and it's a 25% of
[SPEAKER_00]: duty on a commercial vehicle and companies have tried go but this truck which I would love to actually we've actually The reason I put on there will be on a stondry is because we've asked Any else to give us a long-term loan at one maybe we can help them sell some more of them because we do trucks I think we're the biggest truck
[SPEAKER_00]: YouTube channel in terms of pure reviews and so we've asked them for it So I know you guys are getting hit with like a double tariff making the thing Ungod the expensive.
[SPEAKER_00]: How much are they?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're eating like 25,000 or 95.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they may be more now
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, any of us is in there a big petrochemical company, so I guess they can afford to do it, but still it's not a business case if you have to eat $25,000 on every truck you import.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're still $100,000 a truck, so we were just a tough man, double tariffed.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were just visiting with our friend, Jay, Jay Kouch, and he actually has owns one of these, and he beats up, he's trucks very, very hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the guy who has a bunch of, he's got a mug trap in his backyard.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he actually really likes the engineering, the other way around.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it could be really, really great.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just losing because of all this double tariff, double tariff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right, slate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Slate, the reason I put that there is because...
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, that's that too, but mainly because they initially came out the door saying that it was going to be because of the rain, but that was stupid, that was really bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: They parked the truck in California right now to the road during the LA Auto Show so that apparently people were in the bar drinking, whereas the truck is parked out in the rain, on a main road.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was really brave of Tommy do that review so we were one of the few to actually do a review of it because it was so That event was so silly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, the reason I put slate on it is because they lost the tax incentive So it's supposed to be a $20,000 all like trick truck the most affordable truck in the land and now because of that 70-fearing dollar tax rate that went away.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be I'm guessing more than $20,000
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know, at least 27, yeah, but we're not quite sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's also $2.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also $2, no $2 sell, but they shouldn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's this thing that's going on right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he keeps seeing it over and over and over again, where companies that don't sell trucks on-dry think that there's this
[SPEAKER_00]: wealth of customers who don't buy trucks that will buy trucks, so they're ignoring the traditional truck market, they're ignoring taxes and all the people who are buying trucks and they're like, you know what, we'll get all these people who are buying, and it makes, it's kind of makes sense, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, hey, we'll get all these people who are buying SUVs to buy trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: But over and over and over and Ruby and this prove this is not the case.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to convert instead of selling to truck buyers You're going to be selling to this other market of people that I think don't exist and then you ignore the truck buyer And I know that because when Slay came out not only did they time and buy us
[SPEAKER_00]: same thing happened with Ruby and when they did a program here in Colorado, you know, largest truck YouTube channel, and this is part of my cry speaking, I completely understand that, but still it says a lot about the company when they don't invite the people who actually review the thing they're selling.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, cyber truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely a loser.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably the biggest loser.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, high hopes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, actually the Cybertruck pushed 2 million reservations when it first came out.
[SPEAKER_00]: 2 million reservations.
[SPEAKER_00]: 2 million and they sold what?
[SPEAKER_00]: Less than 100,000?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: What happened all those reservations?
[SPEAKER_01]: They evaporated.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, the Cybertruck pushed the F-50 Lightning to exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: It pushed the Silver Arrow EV to exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the Cybertruck pushed a lot of other companies into existence.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to create electric pickup trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now, they're just losing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I like the, I'll be, I'll take Andre, I really like the Cybertruck.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was sad to sell it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's actually a really good Cybert car.
[SPEAKER_00]: It may not be a Cybertruck, and it's still, I mean, the engineering behind it is just so smart.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got things that no other vehicle in its class has.
[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, air suspension, where in its extract mode, you can jack it up to over 14 inches, which is incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Steer by wire, which is also incredible because it allows you to have variable ratio steering.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, your inputs changed based on how fast you're going, which is actually very intuitive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once you get used to it, rear wheel steering, which makes it much more nimble than its size would suggest.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that 10-out cover that's part of it where you can...
[SPEAKER_00]: Use it as like my friend Steve flew and I went to pick him up in this and it was raining and you know They had a lot of luggage and so we just threw it in the bed and then closed a tan out cover It was water resistant.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure it's waterproof I did really well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also like the space.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a big truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of room But of course there were mistakes were made a lot of well we I don't want to go to the litany of mistakes The biggest mistake the Tesla made is a over-promised and under-performing right This was supposed to be a thirty nine thousand dollar truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: How much do we pay for ours?
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
[SPEAKER_01]: 100,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was not the most expensive one.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, there was the driver beast, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: The driver beast was how long?
[SPEAKER_00]: 120,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you promise to truck that can beat an F-150 for $39,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you come out with one that's $100,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's cheapest eventually went down to 80,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a classic example of over-promising underperforming.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and also it looks odd and it's not the shape is wrong and the squircle is wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and the build quality is bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: You put Rivian R1T here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love the Rivian R1T.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks the same as the old order.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're holding the gentoo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they haven't changed the look of it whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And two things, it's incredible off-road.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got a thousand horsepower.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually one of the best off-road electric trucks you could buy, but the biggest problem in my mind is one.
[SPEAKER_00]: My neighbor has one, and if I brought the new one home, which I did in the iron one has, you couldn't tell the difference, so why would he buy one?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what's the point?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: And two, the off-road one, instead of going like, really off-roady where they put stickers on it and make it, you know, like, this isn't...
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a truck that will eat the Baja 1000 for lunch.
[SPEAKER_00]: They made it very stylish, this beautiful interior.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you just feel like, God, I don't want to take this thing off road.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't want to get my muddy boots on this beautiful carpet, and these beautiful mats.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then like the only way that you can tell that you've got the 1000 horse power one is it's got this little gear guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a little, he's a little like Yeti and his hair is flowing back and so there's a little tiny sticker.
[SPEAKER_00]: Imagine like if you bought, you know, the Zeer, I'm going back to Corvette, the Zeer one.
[SPEAKER_00]: One X, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And the only way you could tell it from a stingray was that there was like some guy sprinting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a little tiny little guy, two inch guy, like, okay, now I've got the 1200 horsepower one versus a 500 horsepower one.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, they don't understand, I think, or they seem to,
[SPEAKER_00]: Think that, uh, and I look, I like understated.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like understated, but this is too understated.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it has its own aesthetic, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It almost reminds me of like Len Rover Range Rover, right, very stately, very well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but the out-of-the-dilt.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see the actor?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the actor is butch.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got the amber lights and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got the big wheel feathers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Big tires, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Big navies, yeah, it's not that understated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what the Rivian should be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we talked about EV failing, so we don't have to talk about the Rami-V failing again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, it did fail.
[SPEAKER_00]: So next one is the gladiator, why is that not selling?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, first of all, it was way overpriced for a long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when Stalount has really took over, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They jacked up the price of the gladiator insane.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember, remember, they had a special edition,
[SPEAKER_01]: Gladiator.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was diesel.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the only convertible truck on Dre.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, there's value there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that was $72,000 from it So I think people just said that's enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a rumor.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can't this in the rumor.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think confirm the rumor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's still a rumor that the 392 is gonna be slammed into
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a big rumor that a 392 V8 Gladiator is coming soon, so that would be, could also be expensive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that'll be definitely going to be expensive, because the 32-geeps were expensive of the Wranglers.
[SPEAKER_00]: You think that would inject some life into the Gladiator if you had a big old V8?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a mid-sized truck with a V8?
[SPEAKER_00]: There isn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be like, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: So definitely wake it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just not been selling really great.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, I put this as me, you may have other thoughts.
[SPEAKER_00]: I put the RAM 2500 Cummins on the new Cummins on this list.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I did that is because for a long time, for these, as long as we've been doing this, there's been this war between the truck manufacturers, and it's been all about who's got the most towing, who's got the most horsepower, who's got the most pompous, where if you pound, pound, well, torque.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a little disappointed in the Cummins when it came out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that they would have at least matched if not surpassed the Ford.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you wanted them to leapfrog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but they didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't even actually match them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we've got to the point where you can't because it's already so high.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I remember when Jim Morrison was running Ram, remember.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had the Cummins.
[SPEAKER_00]: where we told, there were the first to reach a thousand pounds of feet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we told like 30,000 pounds, would there be something else?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and now the current comment is not all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, yeah, I agree to some extent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they are doing good because they're offering good value, different value options.
[SPEAKER_01]: We recently tested the heavy duty warlock, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but I agree, I mean, they could have done way better.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just need to redesign the entire truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm saying because they kept the old cab, they kept the old chassis, you know, the frame is kind of aging.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the GM read it their frames in 2020, Ford read it their stuff in 2017, but RAM is still kind of soldering on with some of their
[SPEAKER_00]: Slightly older tech all right in the last one because we talked about this one We don't you talk about it again I'd put the Santa Cruz on there because I think there was a competition to see which of the compact trucks was a winner in the marketplace It was the Maverick or the Santa Cruz the Santa Cruz went and
[SPEAKER_00]: After the lifestyle, folk, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: This was kind of a truck that you go in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, trying to sell trucks to non-truck folks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, little surf trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Ford went after the trucky truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's clear in terms of sales that the Ford was the winner.
[SPEAKER_00]: The popular way to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because how many do they sell here?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they're going to sell 160,000 average.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this sells like $30,000, if I'm not mistaken.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably is closed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe $35.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so five-do-one, four-do-one, something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maverick, so I kind of feel like if you're going to go after truck buyers, go after truck buyers, don't try to expand the market, just go after the people who are buying trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well there you have it guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: One more word about RAM.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some news there's some news there's some news So news news news comments.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not this Sunday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not this Sunday.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's Sunday?
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, it's not even Sunday.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the date?
[SPEAKER_01]: Thursday.
[SPEAKER_01]: So cold.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you please look up on YouTube?
[SPEAKER_01]: Ram trucks YouTube channel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ram trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ram trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, Andre's undergoes one word at the round.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can ask you too much, because there's a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know something.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know a lot, dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know a lot, and you're not sharing, but you can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: But look at this video.
[SPEAKER_00]: This will give you a hint.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because sand flowing over a...
[SPEAKER_00]: The sand's really windy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really windy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's really good for us that you, Jent, what's coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there's a sand-dune, and it says, power will be reborn on January 1st.
[SPEAKER_01]: power will be reborn on January 1st.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: January 1st.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an odd day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think I sell the NEO's Grenadier because I call it the hangover day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that what you're calling?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, like that way past that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, by the way, here's a little Roman rant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I find New Year's Eve the most disappointing of all holidays, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's this huge build up of what's had this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's this huge build up of what's coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's all excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: End of the old year, bring in the new year.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just so anti-comactic, this little, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: little shiny ball falls and then you got to drunk what's it guys CNN?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's his name?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh and there's some group of drug editors in Cooper with the guy from Housewives.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just so you know then you got some like third string band playing and then it's inevitably raining in New York It raised wearing 2026 sunglasses.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing I've seen it a million times and by 10 o'clock I'm bored and I'm asleep
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so, and maybe, may cold, you go party, he raves, he goes to raves, so that's kind of be fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're in a rave, then that would be maybe fun, and you're out there like partying and having a good time listening to music, but if you're an old fart like me and you're watching that TV, there's just not a lot to look forward to on New Year's Eve, except for the fact that you terrify that if you drive somewhere, some drunk person is going to table on you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, that's all I'm doing so on January 1st.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna kick off the new year in a huge way Like by talking about the things that we and we will not be hungover.
[SPEAKER_01]: I promise you Nobody will be hungover because we recorded before then
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I guess, because if we actually recorded it on the first time, I'd be a different person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you mean plans?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going skiing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going skiing.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if there's snow.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's snow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, horse power trucks until the 70 in December in Colorado, which is unusual, which is not good.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, thank you for joining us on this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as always, check out Tommy and this time case on the Tiffel Car Chat.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're swapping it on, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're swapping it, we're kind of changing things around.
[SPEAKER_00]: And come back next week where we talk about the trucks that we're looking forward to probably you in case that we're looking forward to seeing in 2026.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which one?
[SPEAKER_00]: Which one are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Give them all hint.
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a one that you're super excited?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say Scout Terra, but you disappointed me, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: You said this isn't until 2027.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's coming later.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ram.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to see you the wrench extend there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ram.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll be cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you next time.