226 | When Therapy Approaches Collide: Supporting Siblings with Different Therapists

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr

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Brenna Hicks. Your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get a master class in child-centered,

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play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode. I am answering a question from Sarah Beth in North Carolina

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and her question is about

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a sibling

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that is seeing her

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and then the brother that is seeing a different

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colleague

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who is not child-centered

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and they have different approaches to their

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sessions and how that's impacting her client.

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So really interesting scenario.

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And I think this is gonna be really helpful for us to unpack. So

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happy to dive into this. Thank you, Sarah Beth for the email.

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For those of you who

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are wondering about your own cases, about your own clients,

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about your own families.

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If you want to have live Q and A,

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I would love to have you join the Collective www.ccptcollective.com.

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And it is a group of people all over the world who come together for live calls,

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discussions, posts, conversations,

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all things CCPT

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like minded people, your people, your tribe, your support network.

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maybe so glad you're here or if you've been

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thinking about it and you haven't yet joined,

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You can get a two week free trial.

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We'd love to have you www.ccptcollective.com.

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All right.

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So let me read parts of Sarah Beth's question and then we'll dive into this together.

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So she says

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I am hoping that you could pick apart a case that I'm currently working on.

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I work as an LCSW associate at a private practice office with other clinicians,

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another clinician and I are seeing brothers and we see both kids at the same time.

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This is what works best for the mom's schedule,

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bringing both kids at the same time to see the assigned clinicians.

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My client's brother is seeing a clinician who has a directive

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approach in the therapy setting where I am fully CCPT.

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Hi, five, Sarah Beth.

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Ok.

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My coworker has a more directive approach gives

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her client small toys from her treasure box.

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Oh my gosh.

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Sorry. I didn't mean to say that out loud

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when he beats her at a game of Uno

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or another game that involves using his critical thinking skills.

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This client has a learning disability

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that affects his reading comprehension skills.

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All right. Now, moving on to the nitty gritty here.

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Two weeks ago,

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my client informed me that he gets jealous that his

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younger brother gets prizes after therapy and he doesn't.

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My client became tearful when talking

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about his negative feelings toward his brother

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and the jealousy that he feels,

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I informed my client that I did not have a prize box in my room,

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which meant he could not get a toy.

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At the end of therapy,

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my client was upset but understood that I didn't have

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a prize box for him to choose a toy from

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the session ended with him still being a little

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upset but content with not getting a prize.

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Then last week, the same thing happened again,

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my client was tearful talking about his feelings of

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jealousy toward his brother for getting a prize.

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After therapy.

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I let my client express his feelings again like he did the previous week.

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During that week, the other clinician was out of town and his brother was not seen.

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My client asked if we could go into her room to get a prize which

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I told him we could not due to the fact that her room was locked

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and we couldn't access the prize box. This did nothing but upset.

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My client even further.

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By the end of the conversation,

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my client could not control his emotions and was crying.

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He repeatedly said that he did not want me to feel bad for not giving him prizes but

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that he was so jealous of his brother who would come out of therapy with a prize.

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I've been seeing him for two months and the issue of the prize box

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has just recently become a problem that he has been presenting to me.

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I am sticking to my plan of, in capitals, NO PRIZE BOX. Yes. And amen.

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Sarah Bath. No prize box

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as a newbie to both the therapy and the CCPT fields.

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I feel as if I'm questioning how to help. What would you do in this situation?

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How can I help from a child-centered play therapist who

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would love your insight and ideas on the situation?

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Ok.

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Interesting scenario. Really happy. We get to dive into this.

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So first and foremost,

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sometimes we cannot control what happens

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that

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we have no way to predict.

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In other words,

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there's no way to anticipate

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that your colleague is going to give his brother a prize.

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There's no way to anticipate that it's going to bother your client

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and there's no way to prepare for the reaction that your client is having.

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So this is one of those unexpected

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natural therapeutic, valuable moments.

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And

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in my opinion,

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these are some of the most impactful things that happen in our work with kids

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because sometimes the unexpected, the interruptions,

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the things that we have no control over,

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they serve as the greatest moments for therapeutic change.

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So I think in and of itself. This is very, very helpful for your client,

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even though it might seem like a sticking point for you or

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you're a little bit confused as to how to best handle it.

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This is very, very important that he's processing this

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second thought is

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you

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are going to see

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that what he is doing

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is actually much deeper than

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this prize work. So, what I'm trying to say is

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this is

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about much bigger than just the fact that his brother gets this prize.

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I think there's probably intense rivalry. I think there's intense competition.

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I think there's intense jealousy.

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I think he hasn't feelings of inferiority or he feels that

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he gets ignored maybe because his brother has a learning disability.

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So his brother tends to get more of the attention or

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more of the time or more of the energy or whatever.

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I think this is a much bigger thing going on

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and the prize is just the manifestation of

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much deeper issues that he's working through.

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So there's another hallmark indication

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that this is really important work, even though it's hard to see our client upset,

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it's he needs to be upset.

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My third thought

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is

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he is

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you mentioned he had not had any issues for two months, but now it has come up.

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Well, let's think about the timeline here.

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If there had been no issues with this for two months,

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that's give or take eight sessions

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and we know that around the eight or

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so session mark is when resistance typically hits.

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So now all of a sudden he's at a crossroads where he's going, ok.

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Am I going to face this junk?

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Which is going to be difficult and yucky and hard and deep and all of these things,

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or am I going to avoid it?

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And I think that he is teetering on, I wanna dive in but I can't

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and to make a big deal about this prize box thing, it could be a little bit avoidant,

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it could be a little bit resistant or it could be that he's

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just really starting to dive into the things that he needs to address

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you didn't mention how old he is nor how old his brother is.

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So I, I really can't speak to

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his age affecting this in any way.

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However,

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what I will say is we know based on birth order and for those

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of you that have been around the block with me for a while,

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you know how much I love birth order and

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how it influences every conversation that I have.

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I it's ok. Related aside. Sorry, I'm taking a, a tangential note here, but

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I don't realize that I do this, but I've become much more aware of it

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pretty much every time I meet someone new,

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one of my earliest questions for them is, do you have siblings?

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And it's only because I, I mean, this is terrible to say out loud. Sorry. Forgive me.

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I really don't care.

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But as soon as they say yes, then I'm like,

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oh, so I wonder, are they boys or girls?

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And I wonder how many, and I wonder where you are.

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And it takes me down this birth order trail because it gives me so much perspective

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into that person.

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And

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first of all, I just, I love it. It's so fascinating.

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I could talk about birth order all day.

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I did a workshop by the way. And if you,

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you know, are interested in it, you can go to corewellceu.com and you can watch it,

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you'll even get CEUs for it, even better.

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But here's the thing,

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birth order says a lot and we know that same sex siblings close in age

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are going to have intense rivalry and

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they're going to be polar opposite personalities.

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So Sarah Beth, I don't know if that holds true with this family,

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but my gut tells me we have same sex siblings

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probably pretty close in age if they're both doing play therapy

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and I suspect they're probably polar opposites

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in personality.

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So you can understand how difficult this would be

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for him to see his brother getting something that he doesn't get to have

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and feeling like that's preferential treatment or feeling like it's not fair.

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Or if he has an insatiable need for justice,

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you can see the dynamics playing out here,

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which is why I'm saying this is so much bigger than the prize box.

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And

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I would really highly encourage you Sarath to talk to your colleague.

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Start

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slipping hints about CCPT,

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become an advocate, become an evangelist.

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Start laying the foundation for CCPT and see if you can get a colleague convert.

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We we celebrate colleague converts,

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reformed directives.

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So I would encourage you to do that yet.

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This prize box thing, I mean, gosh, I wish that we could make it go away.

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I if I could wave a magic wand, I would take the prize box out of her room

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and I would take the directive approaches away from her too.

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But here's the thing, we can't have control over those kinds of things,

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but we have control over preserving the relationship.

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So every time you said that you reflected the feelings and you

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let him talk and you acknowledged what he was going through.

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That's exactly what he needs from you.

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He needs you to reflectively respond.

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He also needs to feel heard and validated and understood.

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So you continue to acknowledge all of those things,

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but here's the the biggest piece of it.

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You

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are going to figure out something that you can offer

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that has nothing to do with outcome.

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Let's go back to praise versus encouragement for a second or fourth pillar, right?

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All of my new people,

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if you have no idea what I'm talking about when I

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say reflective responses and four pillars start at episode one you'll,

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you'll get caught up and you'll have a sense of what I mean.

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But we're talking about encouragement versus praise and the concept there.

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So, the brother unfortunately

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is learning

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when I do the quote right thing.

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Do you know how hard it is for me to say? Right. Because that's praise.

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But I had to like air quote that because

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he's been conditioned when I do the right thing.

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I get something out of the treasure box, external motivation,

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external locus of control

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and conditional acceptance and love

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behavior modification.

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All of it, it, it's, it's so tragic yet

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you can offer something that has nothing to do with the outcome.

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And you can, for us, for example, at our center,

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a child gets a snack at the end of every session,

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many of my coaching participants have implemented snack at the end of the session.

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So maybe you implement something that allows him to have a snack at the end

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and that has nothing to do with what he's accomplished.

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What he has worked on whether it turned out well or not.

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It's just you can choose to have a snack when we're all done

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and get a big box of goldfish and buy little like bathroom, mouthwash cups

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and every time at the end of a session, he can choose to have some goldfish.

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Now we have other options.

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So typically kids can choose from apple sauce, goldfish, animal crackers,

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chocolate chip cookies, whatever.

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And sometimes we throw in some seasonal things.

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But if you just wanna do goldfish,

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they can choose to have one or they can choose not to,

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but he at least gets to have something at the end of a session.

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And it's not to be a competition.

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It's not to outdo the prize box because, I mean, honestly, I think, oh my gosh.

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Now, what if the other brother goes? That's not fair that you get a snack?

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And I don't, and then, and then it just like starts to cycle all over again.

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And that's not the goal.

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But the goal is

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we,

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we really highly advocate for snack at the

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end of sessions because it's some decompression time.

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It's an empowerment choice.

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It gives them an opportunity to kind of have

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a moment before they go back out to the lobby

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and those few extra minutes of getting a snack that's important for a child.

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They're doing heavy,

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hard work in there and they need a couple minutes for decompression and turnaround.

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So that may be something to consider Sara Beth.

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I might advocate for implementing a snack as part of your process,

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but I am 100% in agreement with you. Stick to your plan of no prize box.

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Continue to validate.

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Continue to recognize this is a much bigger thing than just about this prize.

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And he's doing deep meaningful work.

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He's expressing his feelings, he's letting them out.

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He's talking about what he's going through. He's communicating,

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those are massive indications of growth.

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So

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stay the course

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and

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you continue to reflectively respond, you continue to use the pillars

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and

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I think maybe a snack will mitigate some of those

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feelings of this doesn't seem fair and the jealousy,

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I mean, the jealousy is obviously bigger

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but it will at least address with you

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and your play time

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that he doesn't have to feel every single week that he's been slighted.

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And I find it so interesting.

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He says he repeatedly said that he didn't want

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me to feel bad for not giving him prizes.

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You see that he doesn't want to make you feel bad.

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He feels so bad

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about not getting this prize,

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but he doesn't want you to feel the same way. He's trying to protect you

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from the depth of his feelings and he doesn't want you to feel guilty.

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He doesn't want you to feel ashamed. You wanna know that tells me

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this kid is a super sensitive big feeling kid.

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He

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has a huge sense of other orientation

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and he probably puts everyone else's needs first.

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And then after all that,

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his brother is the one that gets the prize out of the prize box.

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Can you imagine how much that hurts?

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No wonder he's upset. So no wonder he's crying.

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So we also understand this is a personality thing

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and the most helpful thing that you can do is

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stay adherent to the model.

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So Sarah Beth, thank you. So much for the question. I think that's really helpful.

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I'd love to hear from you all.

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If you have questions or comments, brenna@thekidcounselor.com,

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great to be with you. We'll talk again soon. Love you. Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources.

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Please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.