Myles Garrett Trade Conspiracy and the Best/Worst Drafting Teams

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where we're not really into conspiracy theories. I'm Greg Rosenthal with Patrick Claybonn and Jordan Rodrigue and Chris Westley podcast Studio. However, this conspiracy theory that the Cleveland Browns changed the structure of Miles Garrett's contract and they're introducing a potential rule at the owners meetings to allow teams to trade draft picks five years out has me buying into the maybe they just want to trade Miles Garrett conspiracy theory.

00:00:37
Speaker 2: What do you think, Patrick, somebody was motivated to share the story, and so I'm gonna have to delve into that a little bit more before I try to develop my own consis okay because I am prone to it as well.

00:00:50
Speaker 1: Maybe this, maybe this doesn't even qualify as a conspiracy theory. It's just kind of like putting a few things together without any real basis in reporting it. Just it actually is making me think, Okay, maybe this, maybe this thing could happen.

00:01:04
Speaker 3: You would also have to assume that the Cleveland Browns are setting up a long term infrastructure for success for themselves in this scenario. And I also think that this is actually a thing that a lot of teams have talked about for a long time, and sometimes you draw the.

00:01:17
Speaker 4: Straw of like the one that volunteers.

00:01:20
Speaker 5: May be the one to introduce it, right.

00:01:22
Speaker 3: I feel like the Cleveland Browns, particularly ownership and that front office maybe owes the league for taking one for the team.

00:01:29
Speaker 5: So maybe that's a conspiracy.

00:01:31
Speaker 1: I mean, they own the they you know, owe the league just for the blight of the entire Deshaun Watson era.

00:01:37
Speaker 4: It's really more than this. That was what I no, I get it.

00:01:40
Speaker 1: I'd like the structure, the structure change of the Miles Garrett contract. I think it might just be because we don't have a lot of heavy news to talk about.

00:01:49
Speaker 4: But they pushed back.

00:01:50
Speaker 5: I would like to see it.

00:01:52
Speaker 4: That's how I They pushed space.

00:01:53
Speaker 1: They pushed back an option bonus that basically had no impact on their salary cap situation from the end of this month to you know, closer to the season, which, in theory, Field Yates was the first to report this from ESPN. In theory, would make it easier for them to trade Miles Garrett during the draft or in the lead up to the draft. The whole rules proposal thing that I'm that's really part of the conspiracy. That doesn't matter because it's not gonna happen fast enough to really help them out. That's more of you know, their entire front offices, including Andrew Berry's like long term Ponzi scheme to just keep getting tons and tons of money from the Browns despite having terrible results. One thing like, let's just make this into a twelve year plan when our seven year plan has this in the worst spot in the entire NFL.

00:02:43
Speaker 3: If you obtain a twenty thirty first round pick, you probably keep your job, you know. I, But I also think this is interesting to me. I would I honestly thought that Miles Garrett should have been traded a while ago, But at this point it is funny to me because his value would not have been higher now he's got the contract, and yes, the contract is easier to be traded now, but his value pre contract would have never been higher to a team who could have been designated the terms of then created the terms of that contract themselves.

00:03:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it always why now?

00:03:15
Speaker 1: It always felt like that was more of an ownership thing, and Miles Garrett kind of wanted to get out, and I think the front office would have seen the path that that made sense last year, and then ownership was like, I'm not going to get rid of this guy because maybe he's going to do something like set the single season sack record, which is exactly what happened.

00:03:31
Speaker 5: That'll fix everything.

00:03:32
Speaker 1: Yes, so I think his value would still be high by the way, you know, like we're doing some news here, and we're also gonna rank some teams later in the show who we trust on draft.

00:03:44
Speaker 2: This situation is not necessarily impacting where I feel about one team in the amount that I trust them.

00:03:51
Speaker 1: What the Browns, Yeah, well they're going to be They're probably going to be in our worst teams in terms.

00:03:57
Speaker 2: Of trustworthiness in general.

00:04:00
Speaker 4: What could you get?

00:04:01
Speaker 1: Do you think for Miles Garrett, I did poke around. I was like, do you think this is a real thing? And I don't think anyone knows. I don't think any If this trade actually happen, I think it will be one of those surprise ones that does not have a build up of the insiders doing a lot of reporting around it, that everyone on all sides is going to it, deny, deny that it's possible until the moment that it happens. But for salary cap purposes like Miles Garrett if you're looking at twenty twenty six specifically, but even the next year or two, there's a lot of flexibility. Yes, he's making a lot of money, but this year especially, you're not really adding much cap to your right, you know, you're not adding much salary cap if you're taking on Miles Garrett. And it's pretty manageable and flexible to like figure things out in future years because the Browns paid all those signing bonuses. So is there any teams that you would even think about, Like what would Miles Garrett cost the Eagles?

00:04:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Dallas Cowboys have a need for generational addresser.

00:05:02
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you look, and I think they would.

00:05:04
Speaker 4: I think they would do it.

00:05:04
Speaker 1: People are like, hey, it's from Texas.

00:05:07
Speaker 4: Yes, he's from Texas.

00:05:08
Speaker 5: Yeah, Cowboys.

00:05:09
Speaker 3: I think you know, at a certain point, maybe they're not saying it so much as they more subtly are self aware that they are in need of trussure and they'll never admit fault. Of course, not ever would would do that, but yeah, they would need it. I think that a team that is win now with a quarterback that still has a couple of years left in his prime. Would would absolutely be someone who's looking for a premier edition like that.

00:05:33
Speaker 1: Or a rookie on a quarterback that's good on his rookie contract and is in a win now mode, which would describe the Bears and the Commanders.

00:05:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, possibly the Patriots more so I could see Bears than Commanders.

00:05:45
Speaker 2: But also there's probably a lot of young people in the Ohio area who have been fans of a team that is consistently let them down and have been a fan of a player who has played at an excellent level despite all that. And I think the most value, you know, as much as we feel horrible about the Browns and the things they do and from ownership on down, to have Miles Garrett finish his career in Cleveland, I think they'll do.

00:06:08
Speaker 3: You guys think that the Jim Schwartz thing has anything to do with this too, the we handled that situation. I mean, he you know, he has played some of his best football, had played some of his best football under him, And I almost wonder it's like, if ownership's making a statement about who they want to keep versus who they don't want to keep, does that player then kind of come back and say, hey, I thought we were going to keep all of this intact for me here.

00:06:36
Speaker 1: You know, well, there was a report that Todd Bunkin had not been able to reach Miles Garrett, like a few weeks into his tenure.

00:06:42
Speaker 2: Who since that out?

00:06:44
Speaker 4: I don't know, just saying that it.

00:06:45
Speaker 2: Feels like the coach.

00:06:46
Speaker 1: I think they maybe asked him at the press conference and he tried to talk around it. But yeah, like I think he hasn't been able to talk.

00:06:53
Speaker 4: Just it'd be.

00:06:54
Speaker 2: Fun, Jim, if you're out there, if you can hear our voices, Yeah, call us, hit us up. Come on the show The cell Man. We just jumped right into it today. No, no high, no hello, no Wow.

00:07:06
Speaker 1: It's crazy that Patrick's already been offered a SAG card after his performance.

00:07:13
Speaker 4: Yes, on our last show.

00:07:16
Speaker 1: We're wrapping up the week here talking about trades because there was a nice article that I just thought I would remark on by Alec Lewis in The Athletic just about the Jonathan Grenard situation. Jonathan Grinard wants a big new contract, feels like he's underpaid. Some of the statistics would indicate in terms of pressures, quick pressures, he's a top ten type of pass rusher, and his pay is much much less than that. His sack total wasn't huge last year, there was reports that the Eagles were.

00:07:47
Speaker 4: In on him.

00:07:48
Speaker 1: Alec didn't exactly report that the Colts were also in on him or that the Eagles were in on him, but he mentioned those teams prominently as the two teams that would maybe make sense for Jonathan Grenard. So we know enough to know that that's not said just out of the blue. What do you think about the Colts in the Eagles and the fact that the Vikings made it publicly known that they would be open to trading Grenard at this point while also valuing him.

00:08:15
Speaker 2: They don't want to just give him away.

00:08:17
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, we all want things right, but making something public like that does sort of change the terms of the entire conversation. Yeah, I Alec is one of the best beat writers in the country, and for a beat writer to say, hey, this would make sense. He absolutely knows that those are the two teams on it.

00:08:40
Speaker 5: Now. I don't know.

00:08:40
Speaker 3: I'm not saying this for him. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but putting that in the article like that says, this is who is actually absolutely interested in this situation. And I can see I can see this. I can see the Eagles wanting to make sure that the price does not go up in the chance of a two team competition for said player. But the Cold really really need a player like him.

00:09:02
Speaker 1: The fact that he were said in the article a few times like he can't imagine they would ever do it for less than a day two pick makes me think, wow, would they just do it for a like a third, like a Now that Colts don't have a lot of picks. When I was trying to come up with teams that would possibly trade for Miles Garrett, like, I couldn't include the Colts because they don't have first round picks for a couple of years.

00:09:22
Speaker 3: The Eagles, however, have Maybe that's why the Browns want future first round picks beyond right.

00:09:27
Speaker 4: Right, they got to change the road. They're not going to change them for this year, though, would they if they?

00:09:32
Speaker 1: I guess I get we have to find out next week you will be at the owners meetings and they're going to talk about this rule to possibly make it, you know, available to trade picks five years out. Now there's a lot of gms, by the way, in the NBA who would say trading your future picks far down the road will not help you keep your job whatsoever, because there's a million of them who have made dumb trades and gotten fired and there's so many bad NBA teams because of that. That and then the new GM inherits it, so who knows. But wow, what a third round pick like in this year's draft really good?

00:10:05
Speaker 2: It always the price that we always see. It never really makes sense when we first see it. That's, yeah, they get kind of quality player for that, Like you're drafting it was a dart shot.

00:10:15
Speaker 1: When I saw this Garrett thing, I wanted to believe in it because you know, I feel like this draft needs a little more juice than it has right now. And that's okay, not every draft, like it's interesting because there's obviously great players in every draft, but in terms of the skill position, it's a little lacking, which is where the basics like me really get in. And then overall in terms of like elite elite players, it's probably a little less. Where the strength of the draft feels like it's twenty to seventy. Everyone keeps saying and people are less into that. And so I say all that to bring up the Rvel Reese controversy from Wednesday. I'm not sure if you are aware of this. At his pro day, Look, he had this drill and he looked good at the combine. You know, it's like a dip and rip edge rush move, and a lot of the draft knicks out there were kind of mocking how stiff and how there wasn't like a lot of bend to him. And they're like, oh, see, he really is an off ball linebacker. See he's not an edge rasher.

00:11:19
Speaker 2: Here.

00:11:19
Speaker 1: Compare him to Reuben Bain here, Compare him to some sixth round pick that I like better. They're moving more fluidly than that. And it became a big thing in the draft community. And I don't think there's anything meaningful in this entire analysis except for the fact that I think people are just looking for something to talk about and get mad about.

00:11:41
Speaker 4: And that's why.

00:11:41
Speaker 1: Also it became national NFL news that Dan Orlowsky likes Ty Simpson better than Fernando Mendoza, which is very possibly a bad take.

00:11:52
Speaker 4: Do you think that's a bad take?

00:11:53
Speaker 2: I Dan, We'll forget more about quarterbacking than I will ever acknowledge. I have not, as you guys know, as a University of Alabama graduate, I've watched every Alabama football game probably since I was two years old. I did not think that was the game, but you know, things remained to be seen.

00:12:10
Speaker 1: My larger point is that in a normal draft cycle where we're talking about quarterback trades and different players and whatnot, Dan could just make a have a bad take or just to take that as you know, different than consensus that it would come and go. But we spend a week talking about it, and we spent a day on this rvel Reese stuff when really it's not that meaningful.

00:12:29
Speaker 3: What I would just say to the people who really want like that pop, that juice coming into this draft, right, Remember, it was very quiet, too quiet, one might argue, last year. And then what happens. It happens that two general managers, to their credit, the Cleveland Browns and the Jacksonville Jaguars, were concocting a crazy trade up for an absolute unicorn of a prospect in Travis Hunter, and that ended up being like all the pop that we really wanted and.

00:13:02
Speaker 5: Needed for the draft.

00:13:03
Speaker 3: So it just because you're not seeing it now doesn't mean it's not potentially happening. And maybe we all just touch some grass for a little bit for that.

00:13:12
Speaker 2: But the people are hungry. The people, as Greg points out, the people are hungry for draft information. There was also a visual element so people could see, and it was a very simple one, like oh, well this guy can bend better at this particular thing, like this still frame, like you know those still frames that we get before the season where it's like somebody, somebody's stomach is picked, like maybe they're a little bloated that day, and it's like all this weak game. Leonard Fournette weighs six hundred pounds and it's like, what's what's going on? That means football is bad?

00:13:38
Speaker 1: Also, I don't like the idea that people are like, see he's an ed dresser.

00:13:42
Speaker 4: See he's not an ad dresher.

00:13:43
Speaker 1: He's a linebacker, as if that's some sort of horrible scarlet letter. Our guy Ali Connelly, who we're gonna have to talk about linebackers next week, thinks he's a generational linebacker prospect and that that's where he's gonna end up, and that he had him. He had him as Hot he had him as his highest graded linebacker, and linebacker's kind of his main position. That's that's where he grew up as a scout as the second best linebacker since Luke Keigley.

00:14:07
Speaker 4: So maybe he should be a linebacker.

00:14:09
Speaker 5: I would require nuance and critical thinking. Greg, what do you say?

00:14:12
Speaker 2: And as you guys always know, I'm not on the you know ce Sam site for Elon's great replacement theory anymore. But there was that great discussion about Derrick Henry on the bag drill. I don't know if you gotta go way back. He's doing this drill for the first time ever that he's never done. All he's done is run for a billion yards. Oh yeah, and ecology. He does this drill and people look at it. It's like this guy can't play running back.

00:14:34
Speaker 1: Also, you know where r l Rees didn't have that much trouble dipping past tackles like in major college.

00:14:40
Speaker 2: Football playing the game.

00:14:41
Speaker 1: That's why people are talking about him as an edge wresser when really that's not his main position.

00:14:46
Speaker 5: I will never.

00:14:46
Speaker 3: Forget a very very prominent front office member, not a GM, but someone in a key role in a front office several years ago. I was on the phone for a story with him, and I asked, oh, you're I'm in Indie right now and you're not at the combine. This is of course he said, no, but I have it on it's background noise as I watch actual college tape.

00:15:08
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:15:09
Speaker 3: So it's like, you know, it's this is Let's be real here, people, it's the tape.

00:15:14
Speaker 5: Watch the tape.

00:15:15
Speaker 1: Good call and Rvel Reese has some great tape. And justice for the off ball linebackers, they have now reached the spot like the running backs like four years ago, where I don't know if it's galaxy brain thinking, but actually, if you have one of the seven truly game changing ones, it's such a massive advantage. They're the most underpaid and useful positions in the league because there are only a handful, like however many it is guys that can be on the field all three downs and be difference makers all three downs and can rush the passer a little bit. And if you have one of those dudes, you pay them Zach Bond money and maybe Rvel Reese will be one of those guys. The Lions have a tackle that at this point is on his way to the Hall of fame and pudey Sewul in terms of the earth really track record.

00:16:00
Speaker 4: He's got to keep it going.

00:16:02
Speaker 1: I thought it was very interesting that that this week Brat Holmes the GM circled back on something that was kind of talked about reported before free agency, which is, yeah, like we might just like everyone's saying, how we need a left tackle, Like we'll see how this, you know, the draft and rest of free agency goes, but we might have our left tackle and his name is Pinay Seol.

00:16:22
Speaker 4: What do you think?

00:16:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, you put a really good football player in the difficult place. I think Panay Suel can do it. We've seen other people make this right left conversion. I think a big part of it is how good are you at football? And the problem with Pinae s Soool is these very very good at right tackle. So people think, well, you know, you don't want to lose that. No, he's still Piney Seol, He'll just be lining up on a different side. I think you can do it.

00:16:42
Speaker 1: Can also try it out and kind of have a backup plan to switch back if for whatever reason you don't like it. But maybe that will help them out in a draft where yeah, it's hard to find left tackle.

00:16:51
Speaker 4: It's hard to find right tackles.

00:16:52
Speaker 1: But maybe okay, we'd be open to taking a right tackle because we can put sewell over there.

00:16:57
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:16:57
Speaker 3: I don't want to diminish the challenge of it, because they always say it's like just retraining your brain again to react very differently in terms of just how your feet are set up and where you put your hands and all of those things. You can absolutely do it, and again not to diminish the challenge of it, but they always say too that the guard to center, center to guard or guard to guard shift is more difficult than the right to left tackle for certain players, really gifted ones such as Penay Sool.

00:17:23
Speaker 1: That would that would be a cool little subplot, so just something to watch. I noticed that and I was like, all right, let's.

00:17:28
Speaker 5: Now all the passing concepts talk about it last.

00:17:31
Speaker 2: And I don't see any opposing edge, being like, all right, we got panae it right, I'm going to move over there.

00:17:36
Speaker 5: Yeah right, yeah, yeah, yeah, so you got me.

00:17:40
Speaker 4: I mentioned the league annual meeting is coming.

00:17:44
Speaker 5: I will be there.

00:17:45
Speaker 1: Jordan's leaving for it over the weekend and Patrick and I will be recapping. There's a lot of news that comes out from those coaches breakfast. So we'll have some early shows with the shops.

00:17:56
Speaker 5: Remember that time in there, that time I called I facetimed you guys into the show. Show from the beach.

00:18:01
Speaker 4: That was beautiful. Try to get try to get it.

00:18:03
Speaker 5: Nice this time, I'll look for it. I'll look for a good back.

00:18:05
Speaker 4: That is a very nice facility that they're having. I have been there. I don't know if you can get that shop, but the pool is very nice there.

00:18:13
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna try to position myself right in front of Remember Mark Caboli if this this on the Steelers beat fell asleep next to Tomlin, that is a whole I'm going to try to position myself right there and just FaceTime you guys in from that scenario.

00:18:27
Speaker 1: I do remember that that Arizona owners meaning actually I went to a couple there, but one where yeah, I really admired the media members who felt comfortable enough to go in the pool while there's like NFL owners around. Usually it's like a note like one of our coworkers, because I don't know that that's next level.

00:18:45
Speaker 4: That's next level.

00:18:47
Speaker 1: Let's give a quick preview, which is just they're expected to announce and confirm that Vegas will be the Super Bowl in twenty twenty eight. We actually don't have the super Bowl just two years out, which is pretty interesting. We also don't have a date for next year's Super Bowl, which has Mike Florio speculating that they're trying to push the eighteen game season that quickly.

00:19:07
Speaker 5: Listen, it's just proper planning. There's a lot up in the air in the world right now.

00:19:12
Speaker 1: Fair they're gonna not talk about the toushbush. We mentioned the draft pick stuff, which I think is cool. I actually think let's give teams different opportunities to build their team however they want. I don't think it's crazy to allow teams to trade draft picks five years out instead of three years out.

00:19:30
Speaker 2: I like that.

00:19:31
Speaker 1: And they have some stuff which we haven't in the rules proposals to get ready for the potential referee strike. We have not mentioned any potential referee strike. Nobody cares about the ins and outs of like labor negotiations.

00:19:47
Speaker 5: I was gonna say, I kind of care, I know, but the listeners.

00:19:50
Speaker 1: Like the nitty gritty. But the fact that they're bringing this up at this I mean like, I don't want to be reporting on it on a day to day basis. Let's get it when the big headlines are coming. Not that they're prepping for it, but the fact that, like they literally might be voting on rules shows us this could be something we are talking about a lot in September if they don't get this thing done.

00:20:10
Speaker 2: And we have ownership at least the particulars making the decision. We've lost some since the last notable incident of a labor disagreement between the officials and the league, but the lasting memory of that being the fail mary and being closer in a lot of people's minds, I think gives them a little more power in this. And I am a noted person who's critical of referees, but you know they are workers.

00:20:38
Speaker 3: And you know this is interesting for you because it's it is referees. But you and I agree pro labor. But now so now it's like the Venn diagram of it is it is also the referees.

00:20:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you know, they're not cops. They're actual workers who yeah for a job, and you know I stand in solidarity with them.

00:20:55
Speaker 1: I hear everything you're saying, and then I think back to the Fail Mary. And you know what that was great for back at the time, like NFL dot Com, it's this is true.

00:21:07
Speaker 2: I feel horrible for our country.

00:21:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you.

00:21:14
Speaker 1: I don't know if i've I actually I'm pretty sure about this because I used to be pretty in on the numbers of it all. I wouldn't be surprised if the Night of the Fail Mary was the most red knight like in the history of NFL dot Com. I definitely never because I remember being up late that night and just like continuing to write like different versions of those stories. And I would guess that that was like my all time night of metrics. Just people could not get enough of the Fail Mary. Everything that came together. The people love to hate on referees. They love drama. You know, it's like all combining normally not saying this is good for football, but it might be in the back of their mind that this is not going to hurt us.

00:21:54
Speaker 4: Well, not anymore.

00:21:55
Speaker 1: I'm not writing, but I want the NFL dot Com shout out to David Ely and Kevin Patrick and Chuck to keep it going and.

00:22:01
Speaker 2: Ten nine to fifty West Washington Boulevard. All the things that happened back during the failed Mary time. But the thing that I remember about it the most is normally with officiating discussions, there were there were arguments about was all right?

00:22:13
Speaker 4: Was it call wrong?

00:22:14
Speaker 2: There was a little bit of that, but because the disagreement was so immediate, the only thing was, Hey, there's a work.

00:22:20
Speaker 4: Stoppage and we've got outrage. We got to get this figured out.

00:22:24
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's the that's the key to social media. Just just focused on outrage.

00:22:29
Speaker 3: And just to remind the listener. And that was who were probably some of whom we're probably quite young at the time. That was the replacement refs, So this was obviously their strike. Essentially, yes, they could not come to terms on their contract. Now this contract is up again and they're trying to avoid another situation where there are replacement refs. But so far the officials have accused the NFL of not coming in good faith to the arguments. This is the first time the refs have actually spoken up about the state of the negotiation.

00:22:59
Speaker 5: So hydri' in store for next week.

00:23:01
Speaker 1: Great context, And yeah, I believe that was week three and that was that was when I was working for the NFL from New York from my apartment.

00:23:11
Speaker 4: And then the bus stop, and then by every seven minutes.

00:23:14
Speaker 3: Every Halloween costume that year was replacement refs.

00:23:18
Speaker 1: A couple other quick items. I noted that NBA Hall of Famer George Gervin is planning to battle Caleb Williams over his plan to trademark the nickname Iceman. Apparently that is the nickname Caleb Williams Enjoys is going with is called already.

00:23:37
Speaker 4: I wasn't aware of that.

00:23:39
Speaker 1: Thoughts on Caleb william as Iceman and if it's okay for current players to take a very famous nickname from a player that most twenty you know somethings have never heard of. But it was a pretty pretty iconic nickname.

00:23:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, copyright law. It can be an interesting aspect. I think of Val Kilmer when I think of Iceman, and I think I can also think of Kile Williams. I hope everybody gets what they deserve.

00:24:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, money, that's what they're looking for.

00:24:06
Speaker 3: Also, I think one thing I do appreciate about this, it's the fan base gave.

00:24:09
Speaker 5: Him the nickname.

00:24:10
Speaker 3: He didn't just assign it to himself. It wasn't like a pro football reference thing either, it was literally like the fan base after watching some of those incredible fourth quarter comebacks in particularly Vice Man, you know, especially some in the cold and the snow and all that stuff they have given him.

00:24:27
Speaker 2: This Gary Payton did that with the glove. He just told people to start calling him the glove and also worked. You know, black Mamba for Kobe came just straight up from Nike. That was.

00:24:39
Speaker 4: You get all yourself.

00:24:40
Speaker 1: Shout out to George Gervin, by the way, just pulling him up here on pro basketball. Yes, a four time scoring champ, one of the best to ever, MVP, twelve time All Star, So shout out to him. And while we're talking other sports, let's go to break and let's just look up at a picture where tape this on opening day of baseball. It'll come up on Friday morning, and I just want to give a shout out to the Mets David Sterns who broke out the quarter zip under a zip combination, which is new ground for the quarter over a button, down over a button. I feel like I've seen Joe and Troy in the quarter zip under a zip up. I don't know, it's like a quarter zip and a half zip. Our friend Jackson. Bevins pointed this out. It does zip all the way to the bottom. So the jacket over the quarter zip is is not two quarters zips. But I think someone needs to just go full double quarter zip. Make it a half zip. Just the thought, let's take quit. You want another level? I want another level. Oh I want a quarter zip over another quarter zip. If we're going to go this way, I feel like he is. He is caught in the matrix right now, and I love it.

00:25:49
Speaker 5: There's a lot of texture happening here.

00:25:52
Speaker 2: He's listening intently.

00:25:54
Speaker 5: Thought a shack at.

00:25:57
Speaker 4: Greg is an audio medium, so that's a problem. First down in ten I formation with comet Wright snap.

00:26:13
Speaker 6: Caleb play fake, looking to throw, going deep, searching for DJ Moore over the shoulder, catch me touchdown theirs HiT's over at Soldier Field.

00:26:24
Speaker 4: The iceman cometh to the iceman take it a forty six yard spirals to the end zone to DJ Moore.

00:26:34
Speaker 2: What a strike.

00:26:35
Speaker 4: Ben Johnson going for the big balls and it's.

00:26:39
Speaker 2: Captain Trench time.

00:26:40
Speaker 4: Caleb does it again.

00:26:43
Speaker 1: Oh man, jef Zniac. The iceman cometh, the iceman take it.

00:26:49
Speaker 4: I love that, and yeah, I guess.

00:26:50
Speaker 1: I should have remembered that the Iceman was happening in the same stretch of games that DJ Moore was happening. It really is amazing to think of the drama that DJ Moore added not only to the Chicago Bears franchise, but the end of that season with two iconic catches and then one iconic bad route that also ended in their season in a bad way.

00:27:12
Speaker 3: And he also lent some really amazing drama to the start of the regular season too.

00:27:18
Speaker 4: Love love us some DJ Moore love us Iceman, the Iceman for everyone.

00:27:21
Speaker 1: All Right, We've got a very iceman, serious important draft today. We are drafting the teams we trust the most when it comes to the twenty twenty six NFL Draft. Basically, the organizations that we trust will do the right thing for their franchise. Draft good players, make good trades, make good decisions. Basically the front offices we trust the most, specifically for the draft, and we're also going to do some some teams we trust the least. Now in an extremely complicated and contentious off camera procedure, only because it was YouTube sure, Jordan will be choosing first. Patrick chose to choose second after after winning the lottery and I will be choosing third, so you get to start us off, Jordan, who is the best, the team you trust the most, the delight.

00:28:14
Speaker 4: In the NFL. I didn't want to. I just want didn't want to lose the off screen.

00:28:22
Speaker 3: I am going to plot twist a little bit because I think I know what all the listeners think that I'm going to pick right now, But I'm going with the Seattle Seahawks, okay, as a team that currently I trust to draft the most. When I was sort of doing these trust the most in the draft the upcoming draft. This was a lot of thought about this exercise overalls a lot of thought about continuity. How much of an advantage continuity can can be in a front office when the language of evaluation is understood not just within the scouting and talent identification departments, but also between the GM and the coach, en the scouts and the head coach. I think with Mike McDonald in this position has really shown a high skill level in communicating specifically what types of players he wants and how to build a complete puzzle with those players, and not just draft to fireflight, to traits, or to need, but to also look at some sort of intersection between the players we need, the players who would best help us quickly and the players that absolutely can be maximized by this coaching staff. So that right now, I think that for Josh Schneider what to turn around some questionable draft decisions in recent years free agency decisions, contracts, but has been consistent and has continued to sort of rebuild these teams without ever totally tearing the roster down. That means that they draft well. If you can do that, it means you draft very very well or consistently. And so I think the consistency and then the ceiling of this means that I picked the Seahawks first.

00:29:58
Speaker 1: It brings up a larger conversation here in general, which I could have prefaced this whole exercise, like is there such a thing even as good drafting teams, because over a long enough timeline usually go through dipson lulls, and you speak to that. For Schneider was once on the hot seat, and yet since twenty twenty two, and this is when this is still with two years left of Carol, no one's been on a heater like him. He gets the Charles Cross, Mafe, Kenneth Walker, Abe Lucas Kobe Bryant Reek Wollend half back in twenty two. Then he follows that up with the best two first round picks in the same draft. I think of any team this decade so far, I mean, do we have anything topping Devin witherspoon in, Jackson Smith and Jigba I don't think so. And then two very solid drafts after that you had Emon Worry and Zabel That's even better obviously than solid. And we'll see if anyone else contributes. It had a lot of picks last year. Tory Horton looks okay, and even the year before, which wasn't as star studied Byron Murphy and A. J. Barner are two great starters there. So that's the McDonald era the last two years. And it does get me thinking though, Like as I did this exercise, I kind of thought about do we believe that, Like obviously, drafting is like the most important thing you can do, and continuity is really important, and yet the numbers will tell you that over a long enough timeline it's almost impossible to find teams that are better at drafting than other teams, and that you could have no scouting department whatsoever, and just draft off the consensus sport and someone with a basic knowledge of their team needs, like me or something, and you might still be in the middle of the NFL in terms of drafting. You'll probably have teams that are better and teams that are worse than you.

00:31:35
Speaker 2: This is a.

00:31:38
Speaker 3: Lane in the profession and in the sport where a thirty five to forty percent hit rate is considered successful and it's not even high quality starters, it's just contributors. So keeping bearing that in mind, to have one or two players who fit into a larger puzzle per year, in my mind, automatically makes you a good drafting team versus a bad drafting team.

00:32:03
Speaker 5: Where they rank in between.

00:32:04
Speaker 3: That I think is a matter of preference, which is why this is kind of fun today because it's our preference.

00:32:08
Speaker 2: Right.

00:32:08
Speaker 1: If you can get two solid starters, I think that's a good draft. If you can get a great starter and a solid starter and a contributor, then it gets to another level when you go beyond that's that's the epic stuff.

00:32:20
Speaker 4: You got number two.

00:32:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we have to be so results oriented when it comes to this, because people talk about hitting a baseball being the most difficult thing in sports, and like that round that hit rate of three hundred is like idyllic. But in this the pitches that you see, you don't even play a role in determining that. There's so much randomness that goes into drafting in the first place, and your team need and retirement and all of these other things that lead into it. So I have to consider the total apparati apparadi of these organizations. That's gonna be the second time. I don't even know if I've said that that word exists.

00:32:50
Speaker 4: Greg it works. I like that, it sounds good.

00:32:54
Speaker 2: That's the most important, yes, and that's that's where I go.

00:32:56
Speaker 1: You can include trades, by the way, like draft day trades in terms of your announce and so in.

00:33:01
Speaker 2: That like I have to evaluate because this is where I made a mistake last year famously in the TM rankings.

00:33:09
Speaker 1: Total organization that was your ty Simpson over Mendoza was taking Terry. I'm not gonna go there because I think the elet of Falconeta have some talent on dam ninth and they were like the sixteenth best em That's fine.

00:33:23
Speaker 2: I will be overly predictable and go with the Philadelphia Eagles. I think you have to have a cohesive team that makes these decisions, that there needs to be a plan and a structure within making those decisions. A lot of the people who are kind of flailing about to try to keep their jobs. They're in that situation because of ownership, but also if they had performed better, they would not be in that situation, so they will be a little bit lower. But as far as the you know, Larry's and Howie Roseman, they would be mine.

00:33:51
Speaker 1: And another option, by the way, for two first round picks in the same season would be the same year as Devin Witherspoon and JSN it would be Jaalen Carter and Nolan's I wouldn't put that.

00:34:01
Speaker 4: I take the Seahawks duo.

00:34:02
Speaker 1: But that's pretty good from nine to thirty because you have to consider where they're drafting too. They got the defensive backs in twenty four yea. In general, they have a system which is they take big guys, and they take big talented and they also take talented guys that fall a little further than you're expected, like a DeVante Smith didn't exactly fit their bold and yet yeah, you look at the top of their drafts and that's where they excel.

00:34:28
Speaker 4: I think I probably would have had them first too.

00:34:30
Speaker 3: One thing that matters to me is they're often, especially recently, picking later in the first round, and they still manage to find value there. And then what I really like is how when they do have an above average scheme last year certainly was not offense but defense, they've had it for a couple years when it has been offense as well, They've really been able to find really good players that they can attune to that scheme where that really can be really mutually compatible within that and like lift the ceiling. And that's what happened with those secondary players, Quinon Mitchell and Cooper Dejene.

00:35:02
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:35:02
Speaker 1: I think they also trade more than just about anyone. I think they've been really good about being patient, and that's where ownership and continuity helps too, because they often trade into the future and get great value out of those trades. I was looking at the draft though, like it's like with anyone, though, you can find like years where they slumped. They took Jalen Rager famously over Justin Jefferson, and that's where the consensus board would have won that year. Like Justin Jefferson was very underdrafted, was expected to go ahead of Jalen Rager. They needed a slot guy, which was what people thought of Justin Jefferson at the time. They took Jalen Rager, but they also in that draft got a little creative, pissed everyone off and took Jalen Hurts higher than everyone expected. That worked out fantastic, but they had like an Andre Dillard, Artaga Whiteside, Miles Sanders year, which you know, not great even even the best teams.

00:35:57
Speaker 4: All right, number three, this is tough. A lot of good teams on the board. It's a snake draft, right, No, it's it's not a snake draft.

00:36:08
Speaker 2: You go to you.

00:36:10
Speaker 4: I want to see how long.

00:36:15
Speaker 1: You will try to just push against what you think the listeners are expecting in terms of taking the rams. And so I won't take the rams just to put you on the spot for the next spot, because this is very scientific.

00:36:30
Speaker 4: You know, I wanted to take the choice, but I don't. I don't quite quite believe in it.

00:36:39
Speaker 5: This is for the three spot, So do what's right for the three spot.

00:36:41
Speaker 4: No, I will do what's right for the three spot.

00:36:45
Speaker 1: Bucks fans will be shocked, but they have been an extremely consistent Yes team, And if you go to some of these models that are out there, and I did, I don't think it's cheating, Like there's a way to do it. Steve Patent put this out, but it's using kind of the approximate value on ProFootball reference over expectation for draft picks since twenty two. Number one on the list is actually the Rams, who get a huge benefit from the fact that they've been drafting later and hit big. The Bucks are number two on that list for approximate value over expectation over the last four years. But one of the reasons I will go with Jason Light is that because I think it's been consistent throughout the years. I don't think he has a lot of big misses. He maybe hasn't had quite as many high level like wow, these are just absolute home runs. Those are hard to find. But man, he hit singles and doubles and he is absolutely consistent. So I'm gonna take the Bucks number three just to put you on the spot.

00:37:42
Speaker 3: No, I love that because they're up super high for me as well. You know, I've always spoken highly of how they do things on when we're on this show, and like that.

00:37:50
Speaker 5: That's so I like how you put that.

00:37:53
Speaker 3: First of all, I love that study with the value over position or the estimated value over expected of the picks that Steven patented. That was a really cool chart. I will say I appreciate it too. He showed he talked about where some of the maybe blind spots were which it was not weighted by position for example.

00:38:09
Speaker 1: So I think you do factor that in when like Yes's approximate value from Pro Football references.

00:38:12
Speaker 4: It very flats that in general, but it's just a good like. I liked it.

00:38:15
Speaker 3: It was a great exercise and it also helped you show. It also helped show how many picks because volume picking is really important too. When you have such a low success percentage possible from draft picking, that volume picking is is awesome.

00:38:29
Speaker 5: I love it because their floor is so high with how they pick.

00:38:34
Speaker 3: Like you mentioned it, Greg, it's not too many egregious misses or outside of process misses. It's always like we have a formula, we understand the players that that we want, we understand how we scout those players, and they don't second guess themselves much and they build they build complete groups. Their receivers room is about as complete as any in the NFL, even though it's not always the sexiest. Their offensive line is one of the more complete defensive line groups. Their defensive line, yes they need pass rush help, but it's especially on that interior, it's one of the most They just build complete groups. They understand how to build complimentary skill sets. They have for years, And I really like that about the Bucks.

00:39:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Abuka is a huge hit at nineteen, Graham Barton. I don't think people realize it is a massive hit at twenty six. Elijah Kanty's a hit at nineteen. A lot of their second round picks, like Cody Mock, and I like the defensive backs they took, even the year they didn't have a first round pick. Okay, Logan Hall doesn't work out great at the top of the first the second round, but then you get get a key Rashad White, Kada, and right after that it's really just try on Choyanka Kyle Trask. Draft that didn't work out for them, but the one right before that is Tristan Wurf's. Antoine Winfield's very consistent, hitting singles, hitting some doubles, finding some later guys like Jayalen McMillan, Bucky Irving, just a really solid drafting team.

00:39:52
Speaker 4: I did punish the Rams slightly. It's not their fault.

00:39:56
Speaker 1: Maybe I shouldn't for not having these first round picks because they have use them so well in the trades that they've made. So maybe maybe that should they maybe that should be counting. But I was thinking a little more about draft classes. Maybe that was my own bias.

00:40:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think thinking in totality of team build, certainly hard to knock them for all.

00:40:13
Speaker 4: Right, so are you gonna take them?

00:40:15
Speaker 2: I think ultimately I did ding some teams because of the circumstance of being in a bad spot, put them in the place where they could draft the quarterback. And if not for being able to have Jared Goff as the number one overall pick them, we never would have got Matt Stafford on the Rams. And so like I did kind of insert that into that.

00:40:33
Speaker 1: I think that's fair, And like I don't give it's like the Patriots. We're gonna do worst drafting teams of Patriots. I thought about they. You know, in terms of the teams I trust the least because in the Elliott Wolf two years, it hasn't been great we'll get to them because I'm not giving much credit for Drake May. I think thirty two teams out of thirty two, like any of us could have would have should have taken Drake May there in your team the year before, which they didn't have anything to do with. But I'm not gonna give them that much credit. All Right, you're up. You're up with pick four. We're gonna go through three times, but we're it's speed it up now.

00:41:00
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, And again I.

00:41:03
Speaker 3: Might surprise you here, Greg, Oh no, because and I do think the Rams should be in this groups are fight, it would be egregious and that there's only that talk because I know that's what everyone expects me to pick. But here, like I'm picking the Detroit Lions here, and and part of that is because I give them personally, this is subjective a significant bump for the level and scale of rebuild that they had to do, and specifically doing that through the draft after making that trade that helped bring them in extra picks in the Matthew Stafford trade that brought them an extra pick so that they could undergo that rebuild. Brad Holmes can be a little bit of a wild card with his value. He comes from a background of being an NFS scout, which means that he has a very strict standard of how he evaluates positions and so sometimes it doesn't necessarily look the same as what we see on the draft boards and so, but they've pick in volume, especially in the top fifty. They have thirty team top fifty picks over the last six seasons. And when they did start rebuilding this with the first three classes, they had Pinay Seal, Ali McNeil, Emmen Ross Saint Brown, Aiden Hutchinson, Kirby Joseph Jamior Gibbs, Brian Branch and Sam Laporta, among others. That really helped reset a core foundation of what this franchise was going to be. The significance of that rebuild and turning this franchise into an incredibly high floor, high ceiling organization at this point, to me, is a direct credit to how they've drafted and developed these players.

00:42:32
Speaker 5: And so I put them as my number four team.

00:42:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought about them hard at number three because, yeah, the last two years haven't been as productive for them, but I'm looking at the total big picture. They have had a lot of dip on their chip though with trading some future high picks for like Manu Taslaw was kind of like a lot, like they've taken some swings, but ultimately I trust in the process.

00:42:54
Speaker 4: But it is crazy.

00:42:55
Speaker 1: One thing I learned from this exercise looking around and just like almost every fan basis happy unhappy with how their gam gms have drafted, even the best teams. In the best drafting teams. The Lions I'm thinking about specifically, are like not happy with Brad Holmes right now. It's like, calm down, Let's calm down.

00:43:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, only one team gets the Hoist Trophy, right you get to watch Jamiir Gibbs.

00:43:14
Speaker 1: Box Fans like are really unhappy with Jason light It's like, calm down, all right, number five, you're up.

00:43:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna take the Green Bay Packers in this situation where I understand that last year's draft there was a significant fallof over like the the Van Nass Musk, Grave, Tucker Craft, Jayden Reid, like that type of talent they were bringing into Green Bay, but continued success and the collaborative capacity of which we know that I am a fan of a community owned football team and so yeah, let's let's do that.

00:43:46
Speaker 4: I like that, and I thought it was interesting to them.

00:43:49
Speaker 1: They are the team that has added the most value just specifically not over expected, of any team in the entire league because they've had I think, I think it was the fifth or sixth like value of the picks that they've had. They've made a lot of picks. They value those picks, they don't give them away. It was actually the Packers and the Seahawks are the too highest and just in terms of total draft value they've gotten out of their guys they've been They've gotten very good at drafting, like receivers, specifically Watson and Dobbs being in the second and fourth rounds, Musgrave and Craft I think of Craft as a as a receiver ultimately in the second and third round, getting Edgrian Cooper in the second round, Evan Williams in the fourth round. They haven't been as good at the very top as.

00:44:35
Speaker 2: Some of the other teams, but they're not They're not picking.

00:44:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Biby even mean their first round picks like Jordan Morgan, van Ness, Golden is even Kay Walker is not a great four year stretch Eric Stokes. So Jordan Love took some doing. But the fact that they've been maybe the best team in the middle of the rounds makes them a good pick here. I will take the Rams here, let's just do it.

00:44:57
Speaker 4: I won't.

00:44:57
Speaker 1: I won't make Jordan do it. We've kind of already mentioned. I mean their creativity, the fact that Jared Verse is their only first round pick in this entire era, unless you're counting like the less need era with Jeff Fisher, which would also include Jared Goff way back in the day. To get as many hits as they've had with vers Fisk. You could even say like Quorum, Steve Avola, Byron Young, Kobe Turner, just hitting in the middle rounds, Kobe Durant, Kyron Williams. That's where I think you can say that my whole thing I just said about the consensus board and like the average person with instead of spending millions and millions and millions of dollars on entire scouting department, you could spend nothing and maybe get a creditable team. What the Rams have done, and obviously it shows what other teams do too, of really picking the right players for their system that fits.

00:45:54
Speaker 4: What they do is why you know you get paid.

00:45:57
Speaker 3: It's another team that understands how to build a complimentary picture. I had knocked the Giants earlier this year about I think they draft well in terms of traits and finding above average to elite players in certain spots, but they don't all seem to fit all together all the time, and so they draft with complimentary traits. They do this very methodically. They redesigned it over the years, especially when they had to thrive off of those really insanely valuable twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four classes. I did some napkin math coming in this morning. Eighteen of that thirty draft pick in three years. Sort of situation was were starters or key contributors during the twenty twenty five season, So a sixty percent hit rate in an area where thirty to forty is considered insane success.

00:46:44
Speaker 5: Their last year's class was not.

00:46:46
Speaker 3: As good, but they also were sort of a full roster, so they were drafting more for depth conat Mumfield and Josiah Stewart, where I think the gems of that class. DJ would probably agree with me on Josiah Stewart, but I got to see him do it do it again. They're now in their their model has shifted. I think team building models are a big part of this too. Their model has now shifted once again to all in picks for players after rebuilding through the draft in such rapid fashion.

00:47:14
Speaker 5: So I'm very interested to see how that changes the way that they draft.

00:47:17
Speaker 1: I'm not giving up on my Terrence Ferguson stock takes tight ends a little time. I mean, any guy that moves like that, he's gonna be okay, all right, your last pick of the best drafting teams, I've got some high picks. We're going to do nine picks. Yeah, the teams that we trust the best, so the most. So you're up here with pick numbers.

00:47:35
Speaker 3: So this is really tough for me to decide because there's a lot of really great candidates here. I actually am going to go with the Kansas City Chiefs here I.

00:47:44
Speaker 4: Would have been my pick.

00:47:46
Speaker 5: Oh nice, guys, thanks.

00:47:49
Speaker 4: I had the chief very high in the time.

00:47:52
Speaker 3: I'm like flinching ahead of time. So they're consistently picking near the end of the first round. In their dynasty years. They've had six top fifty picks in the last six drafts. I love that they have nine and twenty nine this year, and they pick at forty, So that's three top fifty picks all in one swing. And they're consistent. They really are consistent. They understand their quarterback, they understand where I would like to see them invest a little bit more in different types of receivers. But at the same time, you can't argue with a lot of the moves that they've made on offensive line on defense, they really find guys that match their coaches very well. And again, like I have a broken record, but I really like teams that can draft and with complimentary traits, and they certainly do that.

00:48:35
Speaker 1: They have some blind spots. Surprisingly for a team that has Andy Reid as the coach and Patrick Mahomes as the quarterback. Mkole Hardman in the second round, Sky Moore in the second round, Rashid Rice in the second round, and Xavier Worthy at the back end of the first round. Is not a great overall group. I would say Rice on the field has lived up to that and more. But the risk that every team knew about Rashid Rice coming into it as kind of born out.

00:49:04
Speaker 4: We'll see about Worthy. I haven't given up on him, but so far a little underwhelming.

00:49:09
Speaker 1: So they haven't been great there, But man they find good value in including Josh Simmons last year. Right, let's go with your number eight overall pick here, Patrick, your last team, My.

00:49:19
Speaker 2: Number eight overall pick would be the Denver Broncos. The Denver Broncos in this particular spot collectively over the court. I know the in terms of finding a quarterback, that's the big thing. And I valued highly the fact that the Chiefs when they did get Patrick Mahomes, because this is you know that same It's not a oh well, this is the guy here at once. So we take the guy and being able to find bon Nix in that spot and pair him up with Sean Payton, they continued success after their tan draft to kind of add in that secondary.

00:49:49
Speaker 4: I like the Broncos, and well, I wasn't sure, and I think you are right to do it.

00:49:54
Speaker 1: How deep to give George Payton credit because you remember Sean Payton inherited George Peyton, who you know was part of the whole Russell Wilson fiasco, but he also.

00:50:05
Speaker 5: Fixed it in a season. Yes, uh, part by how he drafted.

00:50:09
Speaker 1: Did he draft Patrick Surtan? I'm trying to think when was he hired? It was it was, yes, that was his first draft was Patrick Surtan. So that was a great draft. You got two all pros. You got Patrick Sirtan in the first round and Quinn Minors in round three. And oh, by the way, a very excellent, excellent seventh round pick, one of the best seventh round picks of the decade, Jonathan Cooper. Even Baron Brownie in the in the third round. So George Bayton came out swinging and has stayed solid. Was not on my long list, which makes my last pick.

00:50:39
Speaker 5: The Broncos weren't on your list?

00:50:40
Speaker 1: No way, Well, I just thought, you know, they haven't had high picks and the last few years. Yeah, it's kind of they would have been in my middle of the pack. I see what you did there, kind of bias ster pot ster pot Well, since i'm last, I can mention who was the honorable mentioned types are? I think I think the well, I'm gonna get to my overall I'm gonna get.

00:51:07
Speaker 4: You know the day.

00:51:08
Speaker 1: Darren Moosey's kind of one for one. They were pretty good last year. Actually, the Jets, I'm not gonna give it to. Yeah, I'm not trusting. I wanted to make a case for Brandon Mean because there's actually multiple like advanced metric ones. The approximate value on is very kind to the Bills. There's other ones which are similar. They have found contributors pretty significantly. But then I looked at the number. You know, the last three or four drafts have been just not good. So but I think they were given him credit for for previous years, so maybe he can get it, get his mojo back. Ryan Poles and Ben Johnson has been quite a combination so far, one for one, but Poles in general, like he started with that brisker Kyler Gordon draft. He other than the Clase uh, the Chase Claypool trade, I think overall he's been quite a good drafter. Darnold Wright was a good pick. In general, they've been good. But I am going to settle on Nick Cassario, the misunderstood Houston Texan head. And look, I'm gonna give an assist here to Demiko Ryans because most of these picks are on defense. But if you're rebuilding a team without a lot of high draft picks, he inherited a tough situation.

00:52:18
Speaker 4: And I was thinking, why did they not have picks back then?

00:52:21
Speaker 1: It was because of the Laramie Tunzel and Kenny Stills trades that Bill O'Brien made back in the day, so he inherited a team that did not have a lot of high picks, and yet in his very first draft he finds their long term backup in Davis Mills in the third round, which I think was a good pick, and then Nico Collins in the third round, which is one of the best third round picks of the decade. And then after that you get Stingley and Jalen Petrie. In the next draft, you also have a huge swing and miss at fifteen overall in Kenyan Green.

00:52:49
Speaker 4: You get c J.

00:52:50
Speaker 1: Stroud and Will Anderson. In that bold move up, you also get to Toe and Tank Dell in that draft. You don't have a first round pick the next year, but you still get Kamari Lassiter Cayden Bullock like that is awesome. And then last year, I'm pretty high on the Jaden Higgins, arante Ersri Wood he marks overall and some of the other guys. So overall, it's the combination of Ryan's coaching, but he's found the right guys for his system. I think he's been pretty solid. You can't really find a bad draft that Nick Cassio's had Texans were in.

00:53:19
Speaker 5: My top five. Yeah, it's really high, high ceiling, high flood draft.

00:53:23
Speaker 4: Thought that would be more controversial.

00:53:25
Speaker 2: Good they should Ladmiko House stay on the offensive side.

00:53:28
Speaker 4: I mean maybe he does. He probably doesn't know. He probably does.

00:53:32
Speaker 1: They would be third in the total value that they've had it, but they've also had really high picks, so in terms of adjusting it for where they're at, they didn't rank quite a sigh, but good job Nick Cassio. It's another GM. I think the fans aren't that happy with. Let's take a break. It's going to be a super sized show going into the weekend, and let's come back with Jordan's favorite part of a busy week, her drafting first.

00:53:56
Speaker 4: Teams that she trusts the least. Back on NFL Daily Tight Shows all week until today. What do you mean, I'm loving it.

00:54:15
Speaker 5: I I'm just hanging out with you guys. It's nice.

00:54:17
Speaker 2: That's that's it.

00:54:19
Speaker 5: It's nice.

00:54:20
Speaker 4: That's the podcast.

00:54:23
Speaker 5: And hr con I did I get hr.

00:54:30
Speaker 4: Get them soon?

00:54:34
Speaker 1: In a surprise move, without her even knowing there actually has been a change in the draft order, I have made a trade with Jordan Rod reed, and I'm gonna draft first. Overall, with that, you get the honor of getting to go to uh the NFL annual league meetings as paid for by the athletic But we won't get into specifics. You're gonna have the second pick, and I'm gonna take the Browns as the team.

00:55:03
Speaker 4: Okay, I just didn't want to give you the out. I was more curious, who would you go with if it wasn't the Browns. What have you taken the Browns?

00:55:09
Speaker 5: I guess you'll never know. Greg.

00:55:11
Speaker 4: This feels like a really unfortunate show.

00:55:14
Speaker 5: You may be able to control the structure, Greg, but you can't control what's.

00:55:17
Speaker 4: Inside my mind. No, that's true.

00:55:19
Speaker 1: And honestly, you could look at last year as a great process year for Andrew Berry. You get the defensive rookie of the year, you get Harold Fannon. This draft saved his job. I really believe that Quinchhn Junkins obviously looked fantastic while he was out there, and that was about trading back.

00:55:39
Speaker 4: It was like all the principles you want to see.

00:55:40
Speaker 1: But I guess, I guess maybe I'm being overly punitive for the Watson trade, kind of including that, but also not finding a lot of wins outside the first round like some of the teams that have not had their first round.

00:55:54
Speaker 2: Picks and everything that you felt great about. You had a guy that's going to the Hall of Fame. So with the sack record, you had the defensive rookie of the year. And then it ultimately transpires where defensive coordinator gets mad at something and ultimately leaves like the structure of which you look in the draft room during the draft and there's Kevin Stefanski, there's Andrew Berry, and Jimmy Haslim is seventeen inches away from the literally looking over their shoulders, where like you're asking me what I trust. I don't trust that.

00:56:22
Speaker 1: Yes, that was where I came to because even though I would find the non draft moves probably more regrettable, I'm so into the message that you send with your first ever draft pick in your first draft. It's why we probably always knew QUESI was not long for that job. One of the worst first drafts anyone's ever had. Unfortunately for him, traded back and ended up with two bus Andrew Berry's first pick, Jeddrick Wills at ten. Overall, just didn't work out for him, and then after that like Greg Newsom's then his first pick, Emerson's been okay, Cedric Tillman, these are third round picks, Michael Hall, who has some off field issues.

00:56:59
Speaker 5: Just yeah, I don't trust their process. Yeah, that's really as simple as that.

00:57:04
Speaker 4: For me.

00:57:05
Speaker 3: It's inclusive to the ownership stuff and how involved he's getting in the eleventh hour. Like, I just don't trust their process. I know, we hear all the time, and I have no reason to believe this is true. That they've got some really interesting things that they're doing analytically speaking, and studies that they're running whatever, But where is that showing up in the actual process.

00:57:24
Speaker 5: I'd like to know, and I don't see it. So that's it. I just don't. I just don't trust it.

00:57:28
Speaker 2: You know.

00:57:28
Speaker 1: It's really funny they have drafted one prob. I know they've drafted too because Jeremiah usu Cormoa made a Pro Bowl, but their second Pro bowler was actually drafted in the twenty twenty five draft Pro Bowler shoulder standards. All right, you are up with your second overall pick here, we're only going to do six teams here in the worst drafting team.

00:57:52
Speaker 3: Yes, the show is it's a Meati show. A lot of this was based on the unknown, so I think it's easy in hindsight and fair in a lot of ways to criticize Quasia dof FOMNZA for the bad drafts. They were the worst team in approximate value of expectation for draft picks since twenty twenty two, at the very bottom the Minnesota Vikings. I'm not going to hold a person who is no longer there accountable for future drafts, obviously, but for me, a lot of this, like I mentioned at the top of the show, a lot of this has to do with continuity as well. There are still a lot of people in that building who preceded his regime who are still there. So it's also like a lot of the same people who are also contributing to making these decisions are still there through the draft, and they don't have any official actual GM so I've got to put them in second to least trustworthy for me, and certainly actually would have been my first pick because I did like the Browns draft last year, so this or for me, I would have put the Vikings number one, and in large part because I don't even know what direction they're going to be taking at the GM position.

00:58:59
Speaker 1: Rob Brazinski has been with the team since nineteen ninety nine, twenty seven seasons and was as high as VP of Football Administration all the way back in two thousand and one EVP.

00:59:12
Speaker 3: Also Ryan Grigson has been there too, So these guys proceeded, then we're there, and then now are still there. So it's like these are It's not just one person in a vacuum making these discisions.

00:59:23
Speaker 1: I mean that is that is all that is like the Dennis Green era vikings when he arrives. So yeah, it's confusing. The coaching staff will probably have a bigger say this year, what do you got Patrick number three?

00:59:33
Speaker 2: For my number three team? I am going to go. I took my other number three team off the board because I've developed a relationship, in a kinship with the fans of the Arizona Cardinals, so I you know, I stand.

00:59:46
Speaker 4: In support trying to be nicer to the Cardinals with you.

00:59:51
Speaker 2: I've still got it. I've still got a thing the Las Vegas Raiders. I think you get to this place where it's pretty much consensus in those awful destroying the planet market betting circumstances where like it's pretty obvious that Fernando Mendoza is going to be the number one overall pick, Like you kind of get into that situation that God was a national championship in a Heisman Trophy, we expect to do great. I love what they've done thus far in free agency, but I can't like look away from what actually happened last year and how weird and nonsensical it was. This was foresight, not han site, and then everything that transpired since then. I'll love to astro GenZ, who I think is a great player, can be a great player. You gotta have a football team, and I'm gonnaed to see it before I feel good about it.

01:00:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's called trust and I think that's fair because at this point they don't have a track record that you can believe in. And then if you're thinking about above the GM, if Tom Brady trustworthy like as a football operations, I mean, like if I speak, I mean he could be not even with that caveat, he couldn't get any people that go see some of the best football player in the world in Los Angeles for that flag football thing. And then Mark Davis, like the front offices under Mark Davis have not worked out. I'm going to go to another organization where ownership has been an issue over the years.

01:01:11
Speaker 4: Now.

01:01:12
Speaker 1: Back back in the around the NFL days, we would kind of defend Duke Tobin because when he came along with the Bengals.

01:01:19
Speaker 4: It felt a little bit like a new day. He didn't get the.

01:01:21
Speaker 1: GM title, but he was on a heater pretty early on with Marvin Lewis, and they really did improve where they were at. But I'm going to be a victim of the last four years and it hasn't been good. And then you start to think about the lack of infrastructure and spending that you hear about in terms of their scouting department and how that is married up with what the coaches have wanted, and maybe him and Zach Taylor not really having the right vision because the fact that they're they love these young linebackers Demetrius Knight and Barrett Carter despite what they saw in the field last year, and then Shamar Stewart and Dylan Fairchild. That was a rough first year from that rookie class. And then you think back of Marius Mims, was was a good first round pick, but the rest of that draft class has not really born much fruit. Jermaine Burton is in the mix, Miles Murphy was their first pick that the year before really hasn't contributed much. Got Charlie Chase Brown deep into that draft, but not a draft where you know, DJ Turner might turn out okay. And then they've taken a lot of defensive backs Staxton Hill, Cam Taylor, britt They haven't all been missus, but they haven't been hits either, And overall, it's pretty inconsistent to pour over the last four years. And so knowing that, and I considered ownership, and I considered just the Zach Taylor all of it, them being a little bit on the hot seat, like I'm not trusting what's going on there right now.

01:02:41
Speaker 3: I think that's fair because when I think of the word trust, can we trust their process? That's really a lot of what the untrustworthy teams were to me and year over year, and they've they've delegated, and there's a couple of high ranking like an assistant gms. There's like a triumvirate of assistant gms there now that you know, have a good reputation around the league.

01:03:03
Speaker 5: But at the same time, Like, I just their process.

01:03:06
Speaker 3: I don't buy it. It hasn't worked for him thus far, and they're sort of still coasting off of the got Joe Burrow, gotcha mar Chase got Togg, a kind of situation that's lifted the floor of what this team looks like, at least on paper for quite some time.

01:03:20
Speaker 2: And that's the circumstantial aspect of the evaluation. Where this group of kids in Baton Rouge has the best offensive season in the history of college football, Are we even like, are we even considering not having them in the bottom Okay, if not for those two guys like knowing each other and playing well just you know.

01:03:38
Speaker 1: With each other, their process used to be too just draft like the biggest, most famous guy from a major school, like when they're up that was I was always.

01:03:46
Speaker 5: Like it worked for him, and in circumstances it works for a while.

01:03:50
Speaker 1: Sometimes you land, I don't know if John, like, there are some clunkers who here that I'm including to Joanah Williams, the offensive lineman, Billy Price and John in a row that came before Burrow, And so I'm including Duke Tobin and the offensive line picks.

01:04:07
Speaker 4: All right, you're up with number five.

01:04:09
Speaker 3: Number five, I'm going Washington Commanders here in terms of the lack of trust. So I'm just gonna so they hit. They nailed it on quarterback Jaden Daniels is sensational. Hopefully he bounces back from this injury and then a little bit of downplay before he had the injury, So hopefully this is a really positive strong season. But I'm just gonna read the last two draft classes from Adam Peters and company. Johnny Newton, who since the injury recovery has showed some some promise, Mike Sanders, Still, Bensonnott, Brandon Coleman, Luke McCaffrey, Jordan McGee, Dominique Campton, Javonte Jean Baptiste, Josh Connerly, Trey Amos, Jalen Lane, Cain Madrano, and Jacorey Crosskey Merritt, who we love Bill Merritt, but it's just not inspiring to me. Outside of the quarterback, it's just not inspiring to me. They haven't had a ton of draft picks to work with either this last class their first class they did, and when we talk about trust, I don't fully trust that they even know where they're at in their team build because if you're looking at where what they could have really decided was say, hey, this is mostly teardown minus the quarterback and a couple of guys along, you know in certain positions like this is mostly a teardown, But you also need a lot of draft picks to be able to do that. They haven't had those, and then they have not, in my opinion, maximized their draft process where they could.

01:05:30
Speaker 2: Well.

01:05:30
Speaker 1: I think they had a huge opportunity in the Jaden Draft and that's the draft. If they hit that you talk about for years to come as the draft, that changes everything because they had about as much draft capital in that draft is as almost any team has had in any draft. Three seconds and two thirds. You're hoping, yeah, to get the core of a team, and right now Sandristill is definitely a contributor. Although yes, even though he was good as a rookie, he was not great last year, which kind of slipped under the radar, and then you're just have a lot of question marks. I think Trey Amos, their segrament pick last year, is going to work out, but yeah, uh not great six top ye right, you need you need that, You need that to hit especially if you're gonna draft like the son of a guy you're super close to, it's not It actually didn't help him out because it's like, we know your buddies are dead.

01:06:24
Speaker 2: You know.

01:06:24
Speaker 4: It just puts a little bit of a target on Luke's back. All right, uh wait, is this the last pick?

01:06:28
Speaker 2: This is my this is my last pick, and it's a chance for me to get weird and an off season the front office evaluation. I'm gonna put the Buffalo Bills in my bottle.

01:06:37
Speaker 4: I thought about him in my top ten.

01:06:39
Speaker 2: I know you did. And here I will make the case because it's a sense of trust. And yeah, there are some absolute hits. But in the last two years, in terms of win adjusted value, do you know who the most valuable player they've drafted is Keon Coleman. So, like, let's ask the Buffalo Bills how they feel about their ability to draft players by the way that they're absolutely submarining one of the players that they took. In this situation where you had the defensive minded head coach who was able to facilitate a certain type of player, a certain type of veteran that they could get for a low cost and allow them to invest even more resources in the draft that they never necessarily took advantage of. Where they're in a situation now where they have to trade for DJ Moore in the first place, less than three hundred and sixty five days after screaming at people on the radio about the insistence to need to acquire a wide receiver. I would like to ask I would like to ask Sean McDermott how much he trusts the situation and how he was treated in the way things ended in Buffalo. So like, in terms of do I believe I think maybe the front office is flailing. I think maybe ownership is also flailing. When you've got a situation where we have one of the best quarterbacks that we have seen in my time watching football and not being able to take advantage of that is a failure. And yeah, the other team that I like very much would also be in this situation as well.

01:07:53
Speaker 4: Woo damn fire.

01:07:55
Speaker 1: Who says the worst team draft isn't going to be a lot of fun at the back end?

01:08:00
Speaker 4: Now, you're right, I think.

01:08:01
Speaker 5: Ultimately, literally nobody said that.

01:08:04
Speaker 1: Eric Eric thought the worst the so shut it. So, yeah, maybe maybe make it a little shorter. Eric said it, Uh, you're right, and you know what, it's a good reminder about the Kean Coleman of it all. Kean Coleman, it's easy to forget now, sixty seven catches, nine hundred and sixty yards eight touchdowns in his rookie season. That's not just like a solid rookie season, that's a great rookie season. Now, I think that was a little misleading in terms of like, is that gonna be translatable skills year after year? But he also was, you know, a second round pick, top of the second round, and uh, maybe maybe the Keon comeback is back.

01:08:44
Speaker 5: I don't know, for them, for another team or what.

01:08:48
Speaker 1: Well, he just showed up to that state fair or whatever at the last second in our in our last episode, as written by Oscar winning screenwriter Eric Ravitz, what a fun week.

01:09:01
Speaker 5: I like this one. I didn't think I would, Greg, Oh, why.

01:09:03
Speaker 4: Wouldn't you think you would? I knew that.

01:09:05
Speaker 5: I knew that. I'm just pushing your buttons.

01:09:11
Speaker 1: Patrick will be back with me on Monday. Let's hit that music and we are going to have a relatively early show because we're going to be reacting to those coaches breakfasts. Who ate what Yeah, who had food in their teeth, who answered the questions. Now, there's a lot of news that comes out of that. Looking forward to that, looking forward to talking to Jordan. That'll be on Tuesday. Enjoy your trip to Phoenix.

01:09:37
Speaker 2: We will see that