All About Anxiety with Maggie Sarachek of the Anxiety Sisters

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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and fifty four, airing in mid June of twenty twenty two. Sarah is going to be interviewing the Anxiety Sisters about their book and about this topic of how we can deal with life in this anxious world. So, Sarah, maybe you could tell us why you wanted to do this interview and why this one stuck out for you. Yeah, we for listeners who are wondering, like, how do we find our guests. I think we've talked about this a little bit, but sometimes it's just someone Laura and I have come across and think would be awesome. Sometimes people write us emails and suggest other people or suggest themselves, and then we get a lot of pitches from pr people who represent authors and other speakers, and a lot of coaches, lots and lots of coaches. Anyway, So this was a book that kind of stood out from some of the others that we've seen, just because I felt like it was a topic that impacts everyone in so many different stages of life, and it was a little, i don't know, different from a lot of the fodder that is sent to us. And it was all about anxiety. And it was a book about anxiety told by two women who have had a lot of experience with anxiety, but who also want to give it an air of normalcy, talk about different degrees of anxiety, and have a very friendly and conversational tone when talking about a tough and potentially anxiety provoking topic. Yes, anxiety itself can be anxiety provoking, as they actually talk about in the book. So I picked up the book and it was great, and so we invited them to come on, and actually it was going to be both sisters, but one of them was on a river cruise in Europe, so it ended up being one of the sisters, but she was great to talk to, so I think you'll enjoy the interview. I don't have clinical anxiety. I don't think, you know. Even when I read the book, I didn't think I fit like you know, true anxiety. But I think, like many other people, I have lots of anxiety in my life. And I don't think I have a single friend who I can point to and be like, oh, that person has no anxiety. Laura, you're on the lower end to the anxiety. I don't know. I think I have plenty of anxiety. Maybe I just don't show it. I don't know. Maybe I feel like you fret about things less than the average of my friends, but not zero, not zero, no no, no no. And then we know that teens and anxiety is a huge, big deal right now, and so I don't know. Are there things in your life that have improved your anxiety? Well, I think trying to limit news consumption is part of it. And you know, you recognize when you are in a more vulnerable place really don't want to have the news. And I sort of remember, I mean this seems like ages ago now, but shortly after Henry was born, there was the whole bombing of a place in Iran where to kill one of the generals, which I mean, I'm sure there are many schools of thought on the foreign policy, and I don't want to even remotely get into that. But I was just like, well, a war with Iran would be really terrible. So I was, you know, just very kind of in that newborn mode. I'm like, I just cannot read about this, Like I cannot follow the news about it. I cannot. There's nothing I can personally do of whether we're going to, you know, be in a nuclear war with Iran, I mean little knowing that then people would be worried about a newclear war with Russia. I mean, who you know, it just the country moves around and live through a pandemic as well. But so you know, if anything else, it's helpful to remember that whatever you're anxious about now, something else supplant it later. But that was the time I remember just like consciously getting off the internet, getting away from the news, not reading the newspaper, not looking at anything filling you know, your life with HGTV magazine or something. And you know, I guess there's you want to be informed. But again, in the situation where there is nothing you can personally do, then it doesn't help to get that marginal extra news story about it. Or you know, I think both of us when we encounter a situation, we try to, you know, make a donation to nonprofit that is doing work in the area, you know, consume news in very limited amounts of something that's a reputable source for just a few minutes, and then do other things. Fill your life with what you can control. I also find that exercising, so running frequently, getting outside those help as well. Yes, running totally helps. Exactly what you said about the news. Social media, same thing, because that can become very news heavy, especially when things are stressful, and you can find yourself in a spiral of like, oh my god, I've spent know an hour hearing one hundred people's different hot takes on something that you didn't need to be spending an hour on because like, yeah, how were you going to fix it just by watching this? And yeah, just filling your life with other things. I mean, I was just thinking back to twenty twenty and why you know, of course we were all you know, cnning and looking at these sources, whatever your preferred source is or was, and by the way, that's that's a source that I don't love anymore because it feels very much like they want a lot of page views by making things seem as scary as possible, which is what I've read is kind of how a lot of media has to operate these days anyway, total sideline. But when you're doing other things, when you're having a social engagement, when you're going outside, when you're doing a craft, when you're ready in a journal and playing with pens, like, you're not going to be focusing on those things. So sometimes just filling your life with things that are more valuable, more calming, more fun in itself can actually help lower, at least for me, my anxiety. Again, I don't have clinical anxiety, so that's maybe very different in different degrees. Yeah, I would also say again for people without the clinical anxiety that needs to be treated or anything like that. But if you're anxious about a certain event, sometimes it helps to realize that you will be on the other side of it. Like it can feel like this giant, big cement truck in the road in front of you that you can't see around, but like you will be Like time keeps passing and if you are anxious about a meeting, like eventually that meeting is going to be over, like you're going to be on the other side of that meeting and life will continue, no doubt for decades after that. So it's just I think, you know, we don't want to wish time away. I mean, we don't want to fall too much into that trap, but we have to see that that you know, you can picture yourself on the other side of it. It also helps to remind I mean I was saying this facetiously with the like we've moved on to a different nuclear war. But it's the truth is that things do change on the you know, conditions change on the ground, and in many cases, things that you are anxious about in the past that are within your sphere of influence you have dealt with and moved on from. Again, not the nuclear war, which none of us personally can do anything about, but if it is, say, you know how you're going to deal with a difficult employee issue, like probably you've dealt with those in the past, right and you know or once you deal with this, you'll have insight for the next time you experience this. So you are a capable person and you can remind yourself of this that like you have solved problems, like you have solved really bad problems, and you've you know, figured out a way forward, and so I think that can help with the anxiety too. Awesome. Well, I hope everyone enjoys this interview. I really enjoyed doing it. Well. I am so excited to welcome Maggie Maggie Sarah Check. Did I say it right? You said it perfectly? Yeah, I should check that prior, but I'm so excited to welcome Maggie Sarah Check of the Anxiety Sisters onto this podcast. We get a lot of emails about books that come out, and this one really captured my attention because anxiety is something so many of us struggle with, even you know, from really mild degrees in specific situations to a much more global, debilitating issue, and I felt like this book covered all of those bases in like a really nice, friendly tone. So I'm so excited to have you on. Can you introduce yourself and tell us like where you are, how old your kids are, and then of course you can speak for your co author as well. Sure, So I'm MEGS from the Anxiety Sister on Maggie, and I'm living now in Columbus, Ohio. But as I was telling you before, I am a lifelong New Yorker, so came from Manhattan. Then I moved to Hoboken, which is another little city right next to Manhattan, so we didn't have a car. And then we moved to Columbus, Ohio, which I couldn't have found on the map before we moved here, but has been a happy surprise for us. And I have two children, ages oh, nineteen and fifteen. Wow, Wow, it goes so fast. Nineteen and fifteen. And then my co anxiety sister is Abby, and she lives in New Jersey, in Monroe, New Jersey. But again, she is from Florida and has spent a lot of time in South Florida. And she has three children. And I'm embarrassed, but her oldest two daughters are well into their thirties, but I think about thirty four, but I could be wrong somewhere in their thirties, you know. And then her son is twenty four to twenty five. Awesome, And I'm really hoping I didn't get those ages very wrong. Well approximate works, well, okay, I actually thought you were sister sisters when I read the books, So I'm like, oh, they're not actually sisters. You coined the term after you became good friends. How did you connect with each other? Well, we met in college, and Abby likes to say we sort of recognized nervous expressions on our faces. But we became very very close friends. And then after college, you know, we stayed very close, and as our anxiety for both of us got worse, we became really each other's touchdowns, and so we kind of went through the process of anxiety together in many different ways and really supported each other. And we reached a point when we felt like we had done a fair amount of work and healing and research where we decided that we needed to sort of include others in our little sorority of two. And that's how we became the anxiety Sisters. No, that totally makes sense. Yeah, so we're soul sisters. We're solis. Yes, I mean I literally I read your book entirety, and I well, maybe it was covered in the beginn and I forgot or something, but I in the whole time I was thinking you were both sisters. So I'm totally excited to hear that it was it was a virtual sisterhood. Yes, we are sisters. We just we fight like sisters, and we're just from different mothers and fathers. And can you talk a little bit about your journey with anxiety, whatever you feel comfortable with sharing, or how it came into your life. We're pretty much both open books. But so I realized much later that I had had anxiety even as a fairly young child. I had a lot of separation anxiety, and I didn't name it that I didn't know sort of what it was. And I had anxiety sort of all the way through my life in different ways. But in my twenties I ended up really dealing with severe panic disorder agoraphobia, which is when I was pretty afraid to be outside of my safe zone, which was my apartment at the time. And I developed a lot of other phobias, you know, phobias of driving, of being on trains, planes, elevators, which was rough because I looped on the sixteenth floor of a building in Manhattan and took the subway every day and the bus every day. But I really developed very, very severe phobias that affected my ability to function in every way. It sounds like the less you were able to do the less you were able to do, if that kind of makes sense, Like it was like a circle. It is a circle. It's it is exactly. It's sort of like we call it the anxiety loop. And you get into that loop, and the loop gets bigger and bigger and bigger. It becomes very hard to get you to sort of push your way out of the loop. That is so hard, And how did you find your way out? And I guess how did having kids interact with that? Well? I have to say I was one of those people that really held off having kids. I mean I was married and met my husband and got married pretty young and was married for a very long time before I had kids. Yeah, we were together probably fifteen years before we had kids, and that was in large part because of my anxiety disorder, because I didn't think I would be able to manage kids and feel as I felt. And I guess Amy and I always say, like our twenties, we called it the Decade of ours, right. We went around, We went to every iss you could imagine, the neurologists, the acupuncturists, the cardiologists, the past life regressionists, I mean, anyone who would take our money. We were going to help because we just wanted to feel better and we didn't really know and believe that we had anxiety. So each person gave us a little something right along the way. And I ended up going to social work school. I had always sort of been oriented that way and interested, and Abby ended up becoming a professor of communication, studying, particularly self talk and the power of self talk. And she was a communications professor for many years. And so we just started sort of putting the pieces together between therapy and medication and lots of alternative therapies and then our professional lives and then really starting to talk to people about anxiety. That was incredibly powerful. We have an ethnography we've interviewed at this point thousands of women because we hear we now hear from people through anxiety sisters all the time. But we started interviewing people and saying, like, what works in the real world, what works for you, right, not in the academic world, because that's a completely different thing than the real world. And then we started going to conferences and interviewing the quote unquote experts anxiety and just sort of putting that all together. And so as we were starting anxiety sisters, we were more and more coming to terms with our own anxiety. Do you think that learning about anxiety helped with your anxiety? Yes, Before we even start our website, we had been doing this for several years. So twenty seventeen is when our website sort of came up in this form, But we had been working on this probably since twenty ten, I would say, And in the beginning it was very anxiety provoking to talk about anxiety, but as time went on, we kind of found it's sort of exposure therapy, I would say. So you kind of get exposed to talking about it all the time and get much more comfortable with it, and you hear other people's stories. And I think the greatest thing to know is that no matter what your anxiety level is, you are not alone. Yes, And I think your book does such a nice like it has such a playful, we're all in this together kind of tone, and I can totally see how that could benefit people who instead we're treating it as more of like this big secret or this big thing that was special to themselves. Well, now, oh go ahead, no, no, sorry, I was just going to say, anxiety is like such a spectrum. I mean myself, I'm definitely anxious about certain things and I totally have a phobia. This will be a pop quiz for any listeners who have been listening for a long time. Do you know what my phobia is? Relatives? You don't count? But do you feel like this is something that's starting to be acknowledged as more universal that like, everyone has some degree of anxiety? I mean is it is one of the emotions we have, And if we didn't have anxiety, we would never get out of bed, you know, and get to work or you know, pick up our kids or make dinner for the family. You know. And I've had those days where i haven't done any of that. So I'm not judging, but no, literally, anxiety does push us forward, and we are starting to talk about it more. I think the thing that I see is that while people talk about mental health a lot more, the consequences of mental health on someone's life are still not so acceptable in society. So you know, we're, oh, you have anxiety disorder or depression. I totally understand, but I don't understand that you didn't make my party, or I don't understand that you can't do carpool today, or that you didn't get to work on time. You know, So the there are these really inconvenient consequences of having true mental health disorders. And I don't know that we've yet come to the point where we've really accepted that piece. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean even with physical health disorders, I feel like people aren't always accepting in that piece. And I think the barriers even higher for things that you can't see outright, we are going to take a quick ad break and then we're going to start talking about some of the tips, because there were so many in this book as well as, as I said, like so much companionship. All right, we'll be right back. All right, we are back, And because your book is chock full of very actionable tips, I was interested in kind of separing them out a little bit and first talking about, like what are some things you might start with if you're dealing with a much lower key anxiety, like nothing clinical, nothing debilitating, but maybe it's the start of the school year and you just find yourself like kind of circling because there's so many moving parts in the air. I will share that one of my favorite tips was the creative outlet section. I was like, oh, yes, those are some of my favorite things. And choosing the right calming activity when you're in a certain state of mind has definitely been something that I am learning over the years. But that's great. Share some of your other favorites well, for the low level in particular, a lot of self talk and self compassion also for the high level. But that self to talk, which is like, I've been through this before. I know that this is a really hard time, but I know that I'm going to get through it. You know, I know it's really chaotic right now, but I'm going to just, you know, do one thing at a time and I'm going to get through it. Or you know, this will pass. I know that this will pass. So that really calm and kind way of reassuring yourself and talking to yourself, and if you can do it out loud, all the better. With everyone talking on their cell phones all the time, I feel like we can sort of talk to ourselves out loud. And then I think there's the other the balance of making sure that you are taking that time to refill your tank. And I don't love the term self care. I don't know why, but it just always annoys. It always sounds like massages and bathsaal, so it goes straight to that. It does, it does. A friend of mine recently said the term restoration she likes better or self connection. So taking that time to self connect. One of the best things any of us can do, like research shows it time after time after time again, is to get outside and get into nature. However, we can do that. You don't even have to exercise it nature. Just getting outside and being in nature is one of the most powerful ways to calm our heart rate, our respiration, our hormone, like our cortisols, you know, like which you produce when you're very anxious. It's like your body physiology actually changes when you're out in nature. And so for people with a low level anxiety who can get out in nature, that is one of the things I would definitely recommend. I love that, especially even when the weather is not great. Sometimes even just a short little dose can be so much better than nothing. Yes, or like worst case scenario, just stare out a window and like wait for a bird to come and like you know, or lot to storm, like you're you know, you're like you're in it without even having to be in it sometimes and if you can't be outside, having plants in your house, believe it or not, does unbelievable. Actually physiologically also does work. So any looking out windows, having plants in your house anything really makes a big difference, and a lot. I would say, have cats or dogs, definitely, she would say animals. Yes, well, my kids are certainly lobbying for that. And I could see how how a pet, even for like an anxious child, like such a beautiful gift, like Okay, it's something to hold. It's something calming, thinking about like a you mentioned, I think a pet like a cat purring in your lap or something like that. Yes, it's a sensory calming. It's very calming from a sensory point of view. And they've done some new studies about kids with dogs having less anxiety and better mental health than kids without dogs. I'm now trying to sell my family on the idea of a cat versus a dog. Yes, because to be quite honest, I have so much anxiety surrounding a dog, whereas I can see a cat. Yeah. No, No, a cat also does the trick. It would be the benefits without the stress stressors of ownership. No, I get that a cat also has that soothing peace and like petting a cat. Yeah, that's very soothing. It's unfortunately a hard sell on my husband, but I'm working on it all right. Well, how about more severe forms of anxiety? And you know, we have a lot of new parents on this that listened to best of both worlds. Yes, and I know postpartum or peripartum anxiety is really really common and can be incredibly severe. What are the best ways you've found in those scenarios and in particular when it's time to seek out help but you might be paralyzed because you're in an anxious state, how do you reach out and get what you need? Well, I think for new mothers it's especially fraud because I think there's still that stereotype like, oh, you had a baby, this is supposed to be the best time of your life. You're supposed to be so happy, and that fear, especially when you're your anxiety or depression or a lot of mothers new mothers find themselves with like a lot of OCD, a lot of obsessive compulsive disorder around the baby. When that becomes really severe, I think a lot of mothers fear like if I tell anyone, they're gonna think I can't take care of my baby, you know, which is not the case, but it is. It is a fear. And the first thing to know is that women experience more anxiety when our hormones are in flux in general, and there is no time almost in your life that there's such a dramatic hormonal shift as you know, childbirth basically the day after childbirth, right after childbirth, childbirth, weaning, when you stop breastfeeding. I found that was like a crazy making time. And perimenopause, oh oh, menopause, perimenopause, puberty too, But there's such an extreme when you give birth of like in that twenty four hour period of a change of hormones. And so know that people don't always talk about it, but you're absolutely not alone with this, and it's time to kind of if you have anyone around you that you can really trust, you know, whether that's a mother or a good friend, or your husband or wife or whomever else is with you. It's really the time where if you can't reach out, reach out to them and have them help you reach out. There are so many websites and I can get you some for the show notes of you know, for postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety, which is actually something really being recognized right now, and you know that will help direct that person to finding you some help. I love that. So when you're in a position where you can't even you know, you're not able to handle reaching out of your that's so interesting about being afraid of what people will think, which is totally part of the whole thing itself. So that's so hard to just like get to a friend, get somebody else, and then have them do the legwork of feeling out if anyone is around, and if no one is around for you, then I really believe in the crisis text line, and there are seven four one, seven four to one. They have resources about everything, and they're incredibly non judgmental and they help a lot of people. They will help you find the resource that you need. Awesome, and we'll definitely link to that as well. How about since our podcast does focus a lot on working parenthood working motherhood in particular, how about handling anxiety and professional settings. Now, whether that is related to your professional activity yourself, like you're afraid of speaking or you're afraid of I don't know being interviewed or something like that. Do you have tips for that or also how to talk about it at work without inviting judgment or without maybe sharing more than you want to, but still enough so that people understand and can help and be supportive. Right, And that really depends on your workplace. I know you know that it depends on what the environment is like, or what your particular boss or supervisor is like, how much you feel comfortable sharing. I think the thing about sharing at work is doing that piece where you figure out what do you need? What do I need, so that really you come to whomever you're speaking with and kind of talk about the thing that you that would the accommodation you would need to make your life easier. You know, do I need a speaking coach? That's a reasonable request. You don't have to give a whole backstory. I want to make sure I can do this in the best way possible. You know, Do I need some adjustment and hours so that I can pick up my kids and figure this all out? But really figuring out what you need and how you're going to make it work for your company is kind of the goal. I think you can share whatever you feel comfortable sharing. Obviously, but I don't know that that's the ultimate important piece. I think it's just like, Okay, I need this, and then this is why the company wants to do this for me, This is how it's going to work for that, This is what I need so that it will benefit you, exactly. That classic like always talk to your boss about like how can I help company? Even more? I love that example of a speaking coach, and you don't have to say because you're anxious. You might just be like, I want to be able to present my very best in meetings and stressful presentations, So I think i'd really benefit from a speaking coach, I like exactly. And then in terms of you know, mothers, I mean, working mothers have just such a big load on them in general, so you know, I think it really depends on what the area that you're struggling with is. But I always say, like, we all have to reach out for help as much as possible, whatever kind of help will will help us, and we you know, and we have to be willing to help other people like this whole idea like I can just fold it all together, nobody can. We working mother can, yes, And we try to emphasize that on our show on a regular basis takes a village for pretty much everyone. And if you think that you're going to do every part by yourself and be happy and smiling while doing it, then you've can fed a lot. Yes, definitely, definitely, I mean so accepting that reality, yeah, well, is that piece of real acceptance of like what your abilities and limitations are, you know in that And I don't mean abilities like you can't do something, but just like we're all just people, like none of us can do it all perfectly. Yes, and you're right, Accepting that can go a long way towards some anxiety that's based on the idea that you are supposed to be achieving some very specific instagram worthy ideal. Oh yes, yes, and your kids are supposed to be perfect and you're supposed to be perfect and you're supposed to be great at your job and it's not possible. It's just not possible. And so it's like accepting and then figuring out, like, as much as you can, what do I need? What do I need right now? You know, for what will make my life manageable? Because it doesn't stay that way for moms of young children, like okay, it will always be this hard. But having slightly older children, you know, I can tell you that that piece changes. And so you know, if I could speak to my younger self, I would have said to myself, you know what, even if I have to spend more money now, you know, or do something that I wasn't thinking about doing now, it's worth it. Because this is temporary. I am already getting a taste of that. And because my kids are four, eight and ten, and let me tell you, that's really different than zero. Yeah, four and six yeah. And I can tell you so that even in a fairly short period, it can get a little bit, a little bit of the pressure comes out. And we always also really believe in having something we call a spin kit with you. So this is a first aid kit for anxiety. And basically, like you would carry an EpiPen if you have an allergy, you carry a spin kit. So the spin kit has three different types of things in it. One is something to if your anxiety is really bad, something to give you a little distraction. For me, like I sometimes carry a little bit of crochet with me because like crafting helps. Some people carry coloring or even just pictures of their pets, or something non stressful or a beautiful scene to look at and then have something that will help soothe your senses and ground you. So when we get anxious, you know how sometimes you can kind of feel like a little bit like you're not quite in your body, can't think straight. And so you know, some people like to carry like a smell an essential oil, lavender, or some people like to carry a mint because if you put in like a strong altoid or something that can really really ground you, like you just come back into your body. Some people like to carry something very soft, you know that they can just like have in their hands or worry stone, something with a little bit of And I've seen people who put a rubber band around their wrist and they just kind of I'm forgetting the word, but they just kind of like push the rubber band back so it kind of hits them on the wrist, you know. Little stimulation, Yeah, a little stimulation to get you back in your to get us back in our body. And we just suggest people carry this around in like a small like makeup size bag and so that when you have anxiety, you can pull out your spin kit. You also may have some symptom relief in your spin kit. I'm sorry, I forgot the third one. And so that might be like t if you have a bad stomach, it might be headache medicine, or if you take you know, at a van or xanax or something, it might be one of those, so you know, something to help your anxiety symptoms as well. I think that probably just the presence of the kit itself and knowing it's there kind of reminds you, like, you know what, Normally, I'm a level headed person who packs myself a spin kit, so like, yes, I'm taken care of Yes. Us being prepared is like half of the battle, because if you're prepared of the anxiety, it can't sneak up on you. You're not like, oh my god, what is going on? You know, Oh I'm anxious. I'm going to take something out of my spin kit. And we call it a spin kit because sometimes the word panic or anxiety makes us anxious, so we call it spinning often. I love it just a gentle well. I think this is going to be filled with useful things, and just the normalizing of anxiety along the spectrum from mild to and pervasive to severe, I think is just really a helpful way to think about it. And I did want us to share our love of the week. Sure, so you said something about nature, so I feel even better about my love of the week. Mine is kind of just like a thing that I did the other day, which I will I triple test picking up my kids, taking a walk, and calling my parents. I actually, I mean I didn't really do all those things, but I drove to pick them, I parked like and I got there a little bit early, and I was able to take like a thirty minute walk in nice weather at the end of the day, and then I used that time to call my mom while I was walking, and then I was there for pickups. So it was like totally lovely and I was like, wow, three productive but nice things to do at once. Yeah, and you did like the connecting with your parents, Yes, there was a major There was connecting. And then there's the practicality of like, okay, my kids need to get picked up. And the movement piece too, I mean, because that is something Also I'm not saying go to the gym and pound, but any kind of movement is something that really alters our moods. So as much that is like perfect and then maybe it was actually quadruple TSK take it gold fast, Yes you did. I think my love of this Week happened actually in our Anxiety Sisters community because we have a really big Facebook community and we are on Instagram too, but our Facebook community people tend to talk a lot, and then we have some support groups as well, and in our community, someone was really really struggling with something and you know, put it out there and I just watched people saying like, oh, yeah, me too, I have that too, and this is what I do. So it really was like sort of going went on for quite a while, like like maybe fifty sixty seventy comments of people kind of empathizing and then sharing what they do. And you know how the internet is often so mean, kid, it was like a ganging up, but a positive ganging Yeah. Our community is not, generally, I mean ninety nine percent of the time is really really empathetic and kind. And so someone came on and you know, was struggling and people really opened up and that like just made me feel so good. That is so nice. Yes, a very safe and supportive place to go, Yes, definitely. Well, on that note, remind everybody where they can find your community, your book, and anywhere else that you and your anxiety partner are living on the interneor you can find us. We have a website www. Dot anxietysisters dot com. We're on Instagram it's the Anxiety Sisters. We're on Facebook Anxiety Sisters again. We have a podcast called The spin Cycle that talks about all things anxiety. And you can always always reach out to us at abs and Mags at anxietysisters dot com and we answer every email we get, so feel free to email us. It takes us a few days, or you can private message us on Facebook and we try to answer everything. And you have a book, Oh my gosh, our book. I'm not a very good promoter. Our book, The Anxiety Sister's Survival Guide. It was published in September twenty twenty one by Random House and so you can really find it anywhere that you find books. I really recommended it has a lovely as I said, like, if you just want to read about anxiety in a very conversational, non anxiety provoking way that will make you feel very not alone in the world, it is a great book for you. Thank you so much. That's really sweet. Well, it was wonderful to have you on. I hope Abby enjoys the rest of her trip, but I loved having one of you, and I'm sure our listeners will really enjoy hearing all of this. So thank you so much. Oh, thank you, well, that was great. Sarah was interviewing Maggie Sarah Chek, who is one of the co authors of The Anxiety Sisters Right to hear about them and what they suggest for dealing with that so common issue. So here's a slightly different question, totally different idea from a listener who says she wants to hear from us about planning to come back from an extended break, like a year long sabbatical. I assume that this listener is an academic, because that is often when this happens, that professors get like a year to do their research every I don't know, after seven or fourteen years or something like that. She says, I have the summer to plan my return, but I'm starting to slowly think about how or what I should be mindful of as I do. I would love your ideas about how we should think about this, about getting back to work after a long time away or back to regular sorts of work after an extended time focused on something else. So, Sarah, what do you think? Oh Man, I can't give you an expert opinion on this because I can't. Even The closest thing I've had to be sabbatical is three maternity leaves. Does that count? I don't know, but it was fun to indulge in the fantasy of having one and what I might think about doing. So just some ideas. I think if I were truly away for a year, I would plan some one on one social catchup meetings with some of the people I wanted to kind of just find out what I missed and what's going on, and without having to do it like all at once or in some big group setting. So maybe like schedule a couple of lunches with some of your favorite people that you work with, you can get a sense of what's going on. I think if I had had a sabbatical where I was digging deep on some project or topic and I wanted to continue that in some fashion, I would just really think about, like, what was it, What part of that project can I carry forward? Because it's probably not going to be the whole thing, like you're not because you're not going to have as much kind of free time to go so deep. But if there's maybe some particular element that you can identify and maybe write out a year's long plan of how you might go about that. You don't always have to commit to sticking exactly to the plan, and you have to understand you're going to have more constraints than you had when you were on the sabbatical, but maybe just doing a little bit of exploration of what you'd want to carry forward. And then this one comes a little bit cal Newport inspired and actually he answered a similar question recently, which makes me wonder did you write to him too, which would be kind of funny but cool. And you know, really, when you're on about you're not talking with anyone. That's kind of the big benefit. Nobody's bothering you. So take advantage of that clean slate where people might have kind of forgotten that you're someone who's easily irritably available, and maybe think about ways you might be able to streamline communication in the future because you have this nice blank slate, like people weren't used to being able to bug you all the time. And maybe if you you know, are like okay, Friday is my office hours for that's when students should reach me. Or like, you know, you have an assistant that you're an administrative assistant and she used to text you all day, but you could come back and be like, Hey, I want to try this new thing where we do check ins on Wednesday afternoons and Friday afternoons at four and otherwise unless something's urgent, let's wait for those meetings. Things like that, like thinking about maybe ways in which that constant availability that you've got to break from could be preserved in some fashion. Yeah, that sounds like great ideas, and you know things that think about what you missed while you're on sabbatical, if there's anything you know because you want to make sure that you put that back in your life, and also think about what you really didn't miss and think about it if there are ways that you can keep that out of your life as much as possible. But in keeping with our theme of anxiety for this episode, I would note that you don't need to overthink this, okay, Like, yes, you are away from your normal responsibilities for a while. Now you are resuming them again, but it will all be fine, Like you don't need to hold yourself to creating a perfect new schedule or perfect new work style, because life always happens. There's no point in being disappointed if you can't take the aspects of the sabbatical you loved into the year. That's why we have sabbaticals in certain jobs so that you can devote the time to it. So I think it might help to review what you did over the sabbatical and sort of remind yourself that you had time for these things, so you don't immediately jump into this like woe is me, I don't have any time to focus anymore. It's like, okay, well you had a year to focus. I mean, it's the same thing with I whine speaking with a lot of people who are coming back from maternity leaves and they're like, I'm not spending much time with my kid during this first time back when it's crazy because they're getting caught up on everything. It's like, but you just spent four months with your children, like all day long, Like does that count for something? Like? Remember you had a season that you were very into that, and now you have a season where you're gonna have to be a little bit more into work. But it will all probably balance out over the time. Well, this has been best of both worlds. Sarah has been interviewing Maggie from The Anxiety's Sisters. We will be back next week with more on making work in life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.