Podcast Extra: Our Crops Aren't Sick, They're Dependent | Soil Talks Podcast

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What if the presence of a pest

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isn't an attack, but a report

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card?

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You know, soluble fertilizers

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for plants are like ultra

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-processed foods for people.

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And for decades, modern

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agriculture has been locked in

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an arms race.

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We've been taught that to grow a

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crop, we must be at war.

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War with the weeds, war with the

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insects,

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and war with the soil itself.

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We've relied on rescue chemistry

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to

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keep plants on life support,

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while often ignoring the very

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biological systems that were

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designed to make them thrive.

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But what if we've been looking

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at the symptoms instead of the

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source?

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What if the presence of a pest

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isn't an attack, but a report

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card?

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He's the man who codified the

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current state of global

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agriculture and why it's a

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failing model.

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Well,

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can you have a cancer patient

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become better and improve their

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health in the long term with

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chemo and radiation and cancer

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drugs?

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And we know that the short

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answer is no.

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Those can

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be

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valuable and necessary tools.

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to halt the progression of a

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rapidly moving disease.

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But once the disease is halted,

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if you just stop there and you

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just maintain the status quo and

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you continue with the same level

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type of diet and lifestyle

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choices and everything else that

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led to cancer in the first

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place,

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then you're going to end up with

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the same type of result.

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Again,

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you're gonna have a cancer

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relapse, you're going to have,

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or you're gonna have something

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else, other types of

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degenerative illnesses.

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And I think it's perhaps that

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framing that is at the

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foundation

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of how people are starting to

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think about agriculture

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differently and just realizing

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you know, we don't get headaches

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because we have aspirin

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deficiencies and

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our crops don't have these

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chronic diseases and we don't

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have these systemic chronic

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problems in agriculture because

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we have fungicide deficiencies

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or we have pesticide

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deficiencies.

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And that we

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have agriculture collectively

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and this contemporary model,

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you know, this contemporary,

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It's sometimes when it's framed

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as organic or regenerative and

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people try to assign labels to

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it, then the label that gets

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assigned to what is modern

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agriculture is sometimes called

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conventional.

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But it hasn't earned the right

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to be called conventional.

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The current model of thinking

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and the model of agronomy that

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is being used has really only

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been in widespread adoption for

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about 70 years.

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It hasn't, and it doesn't have a

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particularly great track record

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of success. It has a great track

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record of success if you look at

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it purely from a yield

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perspective of improving food

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production. But if you look at

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it from a sustainability

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perspective, true

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sustainability, long -term

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sustainability,

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it fails abysmally in multiple

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dimensions.

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And poor

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crop health equals poor human

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health, correct?

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Yeah, that's what one of the

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contributing factors to why we

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have this epidemic of public

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health crisis and obesity and

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all these degenerative

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illnesses.

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But sure. So I I chose to no

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longer call it conventional

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agriculture. I call it

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contemporary agriculture.

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And it's

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when we develop this perspective

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that, you know, contemporary

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agriculture is like a sick

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patient,

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someone who has diabetes

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and obesity and heart disease

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and has this combination of all

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these degenerative illnesses.

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It's.

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Then we want to, you know,

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I'm still remember what was it

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15, 20 years ago when there's

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all these conversations about

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sustainability and sustainable

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innovations and sustainability

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in agriculture.

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that was the buzzword of the

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time.

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Why would we desire to sustain

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such a poor level of health?

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Yes. We first need to have a

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conversation about regenerating

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health of soils and livestock

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and people. And once we've

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achieved a higher plateau of

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performance,

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I mean,

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people,

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Arden Anderson gave me this

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framing years ago that I still

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think about from

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time to time. He said that

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We tend to think of health as

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being binary,

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either you're healthy or you're

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sick.

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But in reality, we should think

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of it as being on a spectrum.

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You are healthy

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and on one end of the spectrum,

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vibrantly healthy on one end of

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the spectrum,

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sick or diseased on the other

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end of the spectrum.

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And then you have this long

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spectrum in between.

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And at some point on the

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threshold, as you start moving

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from vibrantly healthy in the

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direction of

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a disease state, he said, you

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cross into this threshold

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where you're in this pre

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-disease state.

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So you aren't sick yet, but you

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are susceptible.

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And from

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a perspective,

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yeah, from a perspective,

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that's low immunity, it's non

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-functional immunity.

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So from a perspective of our

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health,

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we should try to spend as little

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time as possible in that pre

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-disease state and be in the

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vibrantly healthy state.

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And that's also the way that we

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should manage our agricultural

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production. If we base it off of

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that, the failing model, there's

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no more reliance on rescue

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chemistry, correct?

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It's gone.

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Well, what happens is you have a

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greatly reduced need for the

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rescue chemistry.

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It's like when you are in that

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vibrantly healthy state, all

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right, when you're in a pre

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-disease state,

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and we all observe this in the

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people around us every winter,

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When someone is in a pre

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-disease state, they become ill

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very easily.

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All the cold and flu bugs that

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come along and then they need to

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take some drugs to help them

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recover from the bugs that

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they've become infected with.

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And other people who are not in

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that pre -disease state but who

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are in a vibrantly healthy state

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for whatever reasons because of

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immune support or microbiome

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support and so forth, genetics,

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whatever the case might be,

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they might

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occasionally need those

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treatments but

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it's one year out of three or

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one year out of five or maybe

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never in 10 years.

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It's all about the individual

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terrain

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So you have these dramatic

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differences in the health of

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individuals.

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And you can have that same

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spectrum on our farms and our

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crops. And so it's possible to

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transition as

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we manage the health if we have

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a farm that is constantly using

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fungicides and constantly using

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insecticides.

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As we improve the health of that

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ecosystem over time,

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over several year period, you

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can get to a point where you can

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greatly reduce

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the need for those pesticides.

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And you've essentially, you've

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removed your dependency from

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them. Now,

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they might still be valuable one

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year out of seven or just like

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they might still be valuable

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occasionally but you're not

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dependent on them.

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You follow up right after that

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I'm sure with biological

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treatments things like that

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correct to rebuild the health of

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that crop as quick as possible.

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I'm sure if you're on this

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pathway then you're already

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doing many things to improve

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soil health and plant health

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anyway and so you obviously

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continue that but it's

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It's again, to use the analogy

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of our personal health, if for

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some reason you need to take an

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antibiotic, then it's becoming a

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common recommendation to follow

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that up with a probiotic to

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rebuild your gut microbiome.

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Today isn't about necessarily

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organic versus conventional.

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It's really about the science of

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plant immunity and nutrient

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density.

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What I what I learned in the

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early days when I was starting

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down this pathway and what I've

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continued to learn and

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experience is that

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the foundation of plant immunity

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really rests on two pillars.

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You have

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the foundation requirements.

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nutritional integrity in terms

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of mineral nutrition and you

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have microbiome integrity.

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And it's the same thing for

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plants,

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for livestock,

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for people, for soil microbes.

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You need those two fundamentals,

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our universal fundamentals.

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And

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when

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You have those two fundamentals

296
00:08:05,470 --> 00:08:07,410
in place, you can develop these

297
00:08:07,410 --> 00:08:09,370
robust immune systems, whether

298
00:08:09,370 --> 00:08:11,149
that's in our bodies or

299
00:08:11,149 --> 00:08:12,709
livestock or in soils and

300
00:08:12,709 --> 00:08:13,509
plants.

301
00:08:14,139 --> 00:08:14,959
And what

302
00:08:15,620 --> 00:08:17,040
many people don't realize,

303
00:08:17,889 --> 00:08:19,810
we've not really been trained to

304
00:08:19,810 --> 00:08:20,610
think in this way,

305
00:08:21,370 --> 00:08:22,909
but when there are

306
00:08:23,250 --> 00:08:26,009
epidemics or plagues or diseases

307
00:08:26,009 --> 00:08:27,670
of serious proportion,

308
00:08:28,870 --> 00:08:30,149
people and livestock have the

309
00:08:30,149 --> 00:08:31,370
ability to move around.

310
00:08:33,879 --> 00:08:35,539
But plants

311
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:37,500
do not have that capability.

312
00:08:38,100 --> 00:08:39,639
plants are anchored in place.

313
00:08:40,710 --> 00:08:42,559
And what that has translated

314
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:43,440
into is that

315
00:08:43,879 --> 00:08:44,679
plant,

316
00:08:45,230 --> 00:08:46,990
relatively speaking, relative to

317
00:08:46,990 --> 00:08:49,490
the diseases and the potential

318
00:08:49,490 --> 00:08:50,970
microbes and pathogens that

319
00:08:50,970 --> 00:08:51,769
they're exposed to,

320
00:08:52,379 --> 00:08:54,080
plants actually have a much more

321
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:55,000
robust system,

322
00:08:55,639 --> 00:08:56,519
relatively speaking,

323
00:08:56,919 --> 00:08:59,960
than humans or than livestock

324
00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:00,759
do,

325
00:09:00,759 --> 00:09:01,840
because they are anchored in

326
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,080
place. And so they have to fight

327
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,000
to survive.

328
00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:06,679
And so

329
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:08,580
because of that, they have these

330
00:09:08,580 --> 00:09:09,919
very robust immune systems.

331
00:09:09,919 --> 00:09:10,719
And I

332
00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:12,840
I started several

333
00:09:13,250 --> 00:09:14,889
years ago, oh, half a dozen or

334
00:09:14,889 --> 00:09:16,009
more years ago, I started making

335
00:09:16,009 --> 00:09:16,809
this

336
00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,740
comment publicly that I believe

337
00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:20,500
plants have the capacity to be

338
00:09:20,500 --> 00:09:22,759
100 % resistant to all diseases

339
00:09:22,759 --> 00:09:23,559
and all insects.

340
00:09:24,180 --> 00:09:25,740
Well, that is so contrary to

341
00:09:25,740 --> 00:09:27,059
most people's experience that

342
00:09:27,059 --> 00:09:30,159
they hear that comment with

343
00:09:30,159 --> 00:09:31,779
some measure of disbelief.

344
00:09:32,509 --> 00:09:33,529
And this is something like my

345
00:09:33,529 --> 00:09:35,629
personality, my nature is to be

346
00:09:35,629 --> 00:09:36,430
quite conservative.

347
00:09:36,710 --> 00:09:38,129
I don't really engage in

348
00:09:38,129 --> 00:09:38,929
hyperbole. And

349
00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:40,259
so it's something that

350
00:09:40,639 --> 00:09:42,220
a lot, there was a lot of

351
00:09:42,220 --> 00:09:43,580
thought and a lot of study put

352
00:09:43,580 --> 00:09:44,840
behind, am I really going to

353
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,179
make this statement or not?

354
00:09:47,759 --> 00:09:49,779
But it's something, it's a big

355
00:09:49,779 --> 00:09:50,899
claim to make, it's a big

356
00:09:50,899 --> 00:09:52,120
mouthful, but it's one that I've

357
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:53,559
become comfortable and confident

358
00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:54,359
making

359
00:09:54,529 --> 00:09:57,289
because it's not based on, it's

360
00:09:57,289 --> 00:09:58,570
not a theory, it's not a

361
00:09:58,570 --> 00:09:59,370
hypothesis.

362
00:10:00,009 --> 00:10:01,529
This is something that we have

363
00:10:01,529 --> 00:10:03,830
done successfully on scale,

364
00:10:04,250 --> 00:10:05,690
on tens, hundreds of thousands,

365
00:10:05,830 --> 00:10:06,950
even millions of acres and

366
00:10:06,950 --> 00:10:08,070
across a broad variety of

367
00:10:08,070 --> 00:10:08,870
different crops.

368
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,200
Every year for the last 20

369
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,000
years,

370
00:10:13,740 --> 00:10:15,200
growers have approached me with

371
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,070
new diseases and new problems

372
00:10:18,070 --> 00:10:19,090
that I've not worked with

373
00:10:19,090 --> 00:10:19,950
before. And they've said,

374
00:10:21,059 --> 00:10:23,340
we have, we have disease X.

375
00:10:25,759 --> 00:10:27,720
We have no effective treatment.

376
00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,240
We have no effective control for

377
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:30,039
it.

378
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,440
There is no effective treatment

379
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:32,759
for it. Bacterial canker on

380
00:10:32,759 --> 00:10:33,799
stone fruit was one of the early

381
00:10:33,799 --> 00:10:34,720
ones that I worked on.

382
00:10:35,690 --> 00:10:36,490
And

383
00:10:36,539 --> 00:10:37,820
we

384
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,580
worked with these crops for a

385
00:10:41,580 --> 00:10:42,379
year or so.

386
00:10:42,700 --> 00:10:43,500
And I

387
00:10:44,129 --> 00:10:45,309
still remember the case on

388
00:10:45,309 --> 00:10:46,569
bacterial canker on cherries now

389
00:10:46,569 --> 00:10:47,369
that I mentioned it.

390
00:10:48,330 --> 00:10:49,289
Bacterial canker reversed.

391
00:10:49,610 --> 00:10:50,409
It disappeared.

392
00:10:50,590 --> 00:10:52,490
We had orchard blocks that were

393
00:10:52,490 --> 00:10:53,610
severely affected with bacterial

394
00:10:53,610 --> 00:10:54,909
canker. And the bacterial canker

395
00:10:54,909 --> 00:10:56,730
reversed itself, which has never

396
00:10:56,730 --> 00:10:57,850
been known to happen.

397
00:11:01,159 --> 00:11:01,959
Well,

398
00:11:02,279 --> 00:11:03,740
people then love to ask the

399
00:11:03,740 --> 00:11:04,740
question, because we're all

400
00:11:04,740 --> 00:11:05,639
looking for a silver bullet.

401
00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:06,680
I go, what did you do?

402
00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:08,620
Well, what did we do?

403
00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:09,860
The answer is we did everything.

404
00:11:10,019 --> 00:11:11,600
We pulled SAP analysis.

405
00:11:11,819 --> 00:11:12,799
We pulled soil analysis.

406
00:11:13,139 --> 00:11:14,759
We balanced the microbiome.

407
00:11:14,879 --> 00:11:15,759
We balanced trace mineral

408
00:11:15,759 --> 00:11:18,480
attrition and material canker

409
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:19,279
went away.

410
00:11:19,879 --> 00:11:21,480
I can't point to one thing that

411
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:22,960
we did. I could maybe point to a

412
00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:24,039
combination of half a dozen

413
00:11:24,039 --> 00:11:24,839
different things.

414
00:11:25,139 --> 00:11:25,940
And we've certainly, we've been

415
00:11:25,940 --> 00:11:27,659
able to replicate that result

416
00:11:27,659 --> 00:11:29,019
over and over again in different

417
00:11:29,019 --> 00:11:30,000
settings that were very

418
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:30,940
different from the original.

419
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:32,980
It all comes down to nutritional

420
00:11:32,980 --> 00:11:34,319
balance and microbiome balance.

421
00:11:34,379 --> 00:11:35,179
You balance those two.

422
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,759
things and these quote -unquote

423
00:11:36,759 --> 00:11:37,559
diseases

424
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:38,860
start,

425
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:40,360
they no longer express.

426
00:11:40,799 --> 00:11:41,599
And so

427
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,200
my

428
00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:45,379
confidence in making that

429
00:11:45,379 --> 00:11:47,620
substantial claim of being able

430
00:11:47,620 --> 00:11:48,960
to, crops being able to be

431
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,279
completely resistant to diseases

432
00:11:50,279 --> 00:11:52,320
and insects is because as

433
00:11:53,470 --> 00:11:54,269
of this point,

434
00:11:55,309 --> 00:11:57,830
this approach has never failed.

435
00:11:59,129 --> 00:11:59,950
It has never failed.

436
00:12:00,370 --> 00:12:02,809
No one has come to us with an

437
00:12:02,809 --> 00:12:04,009
incurable disease

438
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:06,120
and we've taken this approach

439
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:07,679
and failed to have success.

440
00:12:08,409 --> 00:12:09,209
And you

441
00:12:10,429 --> 00:12:12,289
do that enough times, we've done

442
00:12:12,289 --> 00:12:13,980
it usually several different

443
00:12:13,980 --> 00:12:15,240
disease and crop combinations

444
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:16,399
every year for the last 20

445
00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:17,399
years, and you develop some

446
00:12:17,399 --> 00:12:18,539
degree of confidence when

447
00:12:18,539 --> 00:12:19,339
everybody else,

448
00:12:19,940 --> 00:12:21,179
if every year you treat

449
00:12:21,179 --> 00:12:22,200
something that everyone else

450
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:23,559
says is impossible, and you

451
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:24,759
consistently do the impossible,

452
00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:26,080
you soon get the idea that the

453
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:27,419
impossible isn't so impossible

454
00:12:27,419 --> 00:12:28,219
after all.

455
00:12:28,490 --> 00:12:30,090
The problem with soluble NPK,

456
00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:31,529
and I know you can jump all over

457
00:12:31,529 --> 00:12:33,590
this one, if you would explain

458
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:35,250
why high salt water soluble

459
00:12:35,250 --> 00:12:37,940
fertilizers often turn off a

460
00:12:37,940 --> 00:12:39,440
plant's natural immune system

461
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,039
and relationship with soil

462
00:12:42,039 --> 00:12:42,839
biology.

463
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:46,860
I could talk about both of those

464
00:12:46,860 --> 00:12:47,759
topics for an hour.

465
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:53,500
So in

466
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:54,799
short,

467
00:12:55,789 --> 00:12:58,330
Plants have this very close

468
00:12:58,330 --> 00:13:00,110
symbiotic relationship with the

469
00:13:00,110 --> 00:13:01,450
soil biology and the soil

470
00:13:01,450 --> 00:13:02,930
microbial community, given the

471
00:13:02,930 --> 00:13:04,110
opportunity to do so.

472
00:13:05,659 --> 00:13:08,319
But this relationship is an

473
00:13:08,319 --> 00:13:09,879
exchange that the plant

474
00:13:09,879 --> 00:13:11,519
controls. The biology doesn't

475
00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:12,639
control it. The plant

476
00:13:13,149 --> 00:13:14,450
transmits the signals.

477
00:13:15,090 --> 00:13:15,889
The

478
00:13:15,779 --> 00:13:18,480
plant is required to engage,

479
00:13:19,580 --> 00:13:21,240
and it dictates the

480
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:22,039
relationship.

481
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:24,740
When the plant is given

482
00:13:25,379 --> 00:13:28,610
large amounts of free soluble

483
00:13:28,610 --> 00:13:29,409
nutrients,

484
00:13:29,820 --> 00:13:31,259
then it

485
00:13:32,529 --> 00:13:34,429
tells the soil microbes I don't

486
00:13:34,429 --> 00:13:35,229
need you.

487
00:13:35,820 --> 00:13:38,240
I don't need to invest sugar

488
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,299
energy in

489
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,519
facilitating a relationship with

490
00:13:41,519 --> 00:13:43,480
a biology that is going to bring

491
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:44,980
me phosphorus and nitrogen and

492
00:13:44,980 --> 00:13:46,179
potassium and a whole host of

493
00:13:46,179 --> 00:13:47,759
other elements because I already

494
00:13:47,759 --> 00:13:48,580
have plenty.

495
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,519
I live in a luxury environment.

496
00:13:50,759 --> 00:13:51,879
I don't need biology.

497
00:13:53,250 --> 00:13:54,429
That's what happens when you

498
00:13:54,429 --> 00:13:56,029
apply a rose starter solution at

499
00:13:56,029 --> 00:13:57,149
planting. And then, of course,

500
00:13:57,309 --> 00:13:59,230
that luxury environment of those

501
00:13:59,230 --> 00:14:01,850
luxurious free nutrient ions,

502
00:14:02,750 --> 00:14:03,929
particularly in the case of

503
00:14:03,929 --> 00:14:04,830
phosphorous and potassium,

504
00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:06,129
starts to fade away and

505
00:14:06,129 --> 00:14:07,070
disappear over time.

506
00:14:08,210 --> 00:14:09,450
And nitrogen, of course, is

507
00:14:09,450 --> 00:14:10,870
often applied in abundant

508
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:12,129
amounts to make sure that that

509
00:14:12,129 --> 00:14:12,929
doesn't happen.

510
00:14:13,870 --> 00:14:16,649
But so that is that is kind of

511
00:14:16,649 --> 00:14:18,350
the one level,

512
00:14:18,789 --> 00:14:20,490
one level of the answer to your

513
00:14:20,490 --> 00:14:22,230
question. And then there is the

514
00:14:22,539 --> 00:14:23,799
other aspect, which

515
00:14:24,210 --> 00:14:25,009
is

516
00:14:25,470 --> 00:14:27,929
I framed this conversation, I've

517
00:14:27,929 --> 00:14:28,729
started

518
00:14:29,139 --> 00:14:31,759
having this discussion in the

519
00:14:31,759 --> 00:14:33,620
context of electrolyte nutrition

520
00:14:33,620 --> 00:14:35,220
versus microbial nutrition.

521
00:14:36,169 --> 00:14:36,969
If

522
00:14:37,620 --> 00:14:39,639
you want to shut down the soil

523
00:14:39,639 --> 00:14:41,059
microbial community,

524
00:14:41,970 --> 00:14:43,870
and if you want to shut down the

525
00:14:43,870 --> 00:14:46,090
plant's microbial interactions,

526
00:14:46,149 --> 00:14:47,190
not just within the soil

527
00:14:47,190 --> 00:14:48,569
environment, but inside the

528
00:14:48,569 --> 00:14:49,369
plant itself,

529
00:14:49,789 --> 00:14:51,610
this will maybe make a slight

530
00:14:51,610 --> 00:14:52,409
diversion here.

531
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,120
We're now coming to understand

532
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:55,899
that within our own bodies, we

533
00:14:55,899 --> 00:14:56,699
have,

534
00:14:56,659 --> 00:14:57,720
I forget the exact number, but

535
00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:58,919
something like 10 times more

536
00:14:58,919 --> 00:15:00,360
bacterial cells than we do human

537
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:01,159
cells.

538
00:15:01,340 --> 00:15:02,940
The same concept also is true of

539
00:15:02,940 --> 00:15:03,740
plants.

540
00:15:03,740 --> 00:15:05,559
Plants are colonized by

541
00:15:05,559 --> 00:15:06,879
endophytes, bacteria,

542
00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:08,519
microalgae, fungi that live

543
00:15:08,519 --> 00:15:09,480
throughout the entire plant

544
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:10,460
structure that live on the leaf

545
00:15:10,460 --> 00:15:11,259
surface.

546
00:15:11,450 --> 00:15:13,250
There is no location on or in

547
00:15:13,250 --> 00:15:14,789
the plant that is not colonized

548
00:15:14,789 --> 00:15:16,649
by these associated endophytes.

549
00:15:17,819 --> 00:15:19,620
Plants have the ability to

550
00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:22,069
signal to the microbial

551
00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:22,869
community,

552
00:15:23,340 --> 00:15:25,539
I need more of X and less of Y

553
00:15:25,539 --> 00:15:27,600
or they can selectively absorb,

554
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:29,940
they can selectively absorb

555
00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:31,740
manganese and zinc and copper

556
00:15:31,740 --> 00:15:32,960
and they can reject excessive

557
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:33,820
levels of aluminum,

558
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:35,279
for example,

559
00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:36,740
or sodium or chloride.

560
00:15:36,879 --> 00:15:38,600
As long as the

561
00:15:39,429 --> 00:15:41,549
plant system is not overloaded

562
00:15:41,549 --> 00:15:43,009
with excess electrolytes.

563
00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:45,000
The moment you give the plant

564
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:45,960
excessive levels of

565
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,600
electrolytes, it loses its

566
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:48,899
ability to self -regulate.

567
00:15:49,299 --> 00:15:50,460
It loses its ability for

568
00:15:50,460 --> 00:15:51,980
homeostasis of nutrient

569
00:15:51,980 --> 00:15:52,779
absorption.

570
00:15:53,299 --> 00:15:54,299
And that

571
00:15:55,220 --> 00:15:56,120
means all

572
00:15:56,429 --> 00:15:57,529
of a sudden the plant starts

573
00:15:57,529 --> 00:15:59,070
absorbing excessive levels of

574
00:15:59,070 --> 00:16:00,250
certain nutrients and

575
00:16:00,250 --> 00:16:01,289
deficiencies of others.

576
00:16:01,750 --> 00:16:02,549
And so

577
00:16:02,590 --> 00:16:04,289
this is really a signal, like

578
00:16:04,289 --> 00:16:06,129
how many times do you walk out

579
00:16:06,129 --> 00:16:07,809
into the forest and you observe

580
00:16:07,809 --> 00:16:08,870
plants that have severe

581
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:09,990
nutritional deficiencies?

582
00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:12,200
Not very often.

583
00:16:12,399 --> 00:16:13,799
And there's all kinds of

584
00:16:14,110 --> 00:16:15,850
arguments that people would like

585
00:16:15,850 --> 00:16:16,889
to make about the relative

586
00:16:16,889 --> 00:16:19,309
productivity or nutrient removal

587
00:16:19,309 --> 00:16:20,409
of a forest versus

588
00:16:20,919 --> 00:16:22,279
agricultural soil but the bottom

589
00:16:22,279 --> 00:16:23,700
line is the reason you don't see

590
00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:25,100
those nutrient deficiencies is

591
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:26,059
because you

592
00:16:26,370 --> 00:16:29,500
have this very close plant and

593
00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:31,139
microbiome signaling and the

594
00:16:31,139 --> 00:16:32,559
plants are able to maintain

595
00:16:32,559 --> 00:16:33,940
nutrients through this

596
00:16:33,940 --> 00:16:35,180
homeostasis process.

597
00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:36,819
They self -regulate up and down

598
00:16:36,819 --> 00:16:38,100
just like we self -regulate our

599
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:38,899
body temperature.

600
00:16:39,740 --> 00:16:40,539
Well,

601
00:16:41,450 --> 00:16:43,210
you destroy the plant's ability

602
00:16:43,210 --> 00:16:44,590
to self -regulate its

603
00:16:44,590 --> 00:16:45,389
nutritional

604
00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:47,809
integrity when

605
00:16:48,730 --> 00:16:49,750
you give it excessive

606
00:16:49,750 --> 00:16:50,629
electrolytes.

607
00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:53,259
Your common electrolytes in

608
00:16:53,259 --> 00:16:54,240
plants and soils

609
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:55,730
which can easily become

610
00:16:55,730 --> 00:16:56,529
excessive

611
00:16:56,669 --> 00:16:58,500
are chloride,

612
00:16:59,190 --> 00:16:59,990
potassium,

613
00:17:00,620 --> 00:17:01,419
soluble magnesium,

614
00:17:03,230 --> 00:17:04,029
nitrogen.

615
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:07,119
Did I miss one?

616
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:08,519
I think those are the major

617
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:09,279
ones.

618
00:17:09,259 --> 00:17:10,140
Sodium, of course.

619
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,259
Sodium is kind of the obvious

620
00:17:11,259 --> 00:17:12,059
one.

621
00:17:13,150 --> 00:17:13,990
So when

622
00:17:14,940 --> 00:17:16,059
you think about what that means,

623
00:17:16,299 --> 00:17:18,319
if you give a plant

624
00:17:19,109 --> 00:17:20,369
large levels of

625
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:21,960
I'll use nitrogen as a

626
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,660
discussion point, although the

627
00:17:23,660 --> 00:17:25,259
other electrolytes would also be

628
00:17:25,259 --> 00:17:26,299
true for them. If you give a

629
00:17:26,299 --> 00:17:27,220
plant a large dose of

630
00:17:27,220 --> 00:17:28,460
electrolytes, two things happen,

631
00:17:28,579 --> 00:17:29,379
several things happen.

632
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:31,500
One is it

633
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,799
no longer needs the soil biology

634
00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:36,940
to deliver nitrogen, so it stops

635
00:17:36,940 --> 00:17:38,059
feeding soil biology.

636
00:17:38,809 --> 00:17:40,990
But secondly, you also have

637
00:17:40,990 --> 00:17:42,509
destroyed that plant's ability

638
00:17:42,509 --> 00:17:43,470
to self -regulate.

639
00:17:43,829 --> 00:17:45,950
So you've shut down the

640
00:17:45,950 --> 00:17:46,829
communication system,

641
00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:49,539
and you have destroyed the

642
00:17:49,539 --> 00:17:50,740
homeostasis capability.

643
00:17:51,220 --> 00:17:52,859
So now you have put that plant

644
00:17:52,859 --> 00:17:55,220
into a state of dependency for

645
00:17:55,599 --> 00:17:57,259
the rest of its lifespan or for

646
00:17:57,259 --> 00:17:58,480
the rest of that season where it

647
00:17:58,480 --> 00:17:59,900
is now dependent on

648
00:18:00,269 --> 00:18:01,809
an ongoing diet

649
00:18:02,380 --> 00:18:04,579
of soluble nutrients.

650
00:18:05,039 --> 00:18:05,839
So

651
00:18:06,059 --> 00:18:07,900
you could in many ways say that

652
00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:10,640
you have created a dependency on

653
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,539
a ultra processed foods diet and

654
00:18:12,539 --> 00:18:13,859
then you wonder why the plant

655
00:18:13,859 --> 00:18:15,660
has obesity and diabetes and

656
00:18:15,660 --> 00:18:17,640
needs drug drugs to recover.

657
00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:19,440
That's exactly right and at the

658
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:20,420
end of the day that's what's

659
00:18:20,420 --> 00:18:21,980
happening in so many situations

660
00:18:21,980 --> 00:18:22,779
right the

661
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:24,730
NPK is dumped on the

662
00:18:25,230 --> 00:18:26,509
crops are dependent on it's like

663
00:18:26,509 --> 00:18:28,190
a drug addict you know and they

664
00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:30,009
don't stop the soils don't stop

665
00:18:30,009 --> 00:18:31,089
the plants don't stop

666
00:18:31,789 --> 00:18:33,250
until you can reverse that get

667
00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:34,869
it back to the way it should be.

668
00:18:35,599 --> 00:18:36,720
you know, healthy, thriving

669
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:38,299
microbial communities in the

670
00:18:38,299 --> 00:18:40,759
soil that self regulating mining

671
00:18:40,759 --> 00:18:42,259
the nutrition that's needed as

672
00:18:42,259 --> 00:18:43,440
the plants call for it.

673
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,920
Yeah, soluble, soluble ionic

674
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:47,599
nutrients for fertilizer, excuse

675
00:18:47,599 --> 00:18:49,000
me, soluble fertilizers for

676
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,240
plants are like ultra processed

677
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:52,039
foods for people.

678
00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:53,960
Yeah, the passive versus active

679
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:54,940
plant. Let's discuss the

680
00:18:54,940 --> 00:18:56,119
difference between a plant that

681
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:57,539
is spoon fed nutrients,

682
00:18:58,329 --> 00:18:59,589
right? So that would be again,

683
00:18:59,609 --> 00:19:00,829
going back to that soluble,

684
00:19:01,140 --> 00:19:01,940
right?

685
00:19:02,029 --> 00:19:03,690
versus a plant that is actively

686
00:19:03,690 --> 00:19:05,930
mining the soil through root

687
00:19:05,930 --> 00:19:06,730
exudates.

688
00:19:07,369 --> 00:19:08,430
Let's talk about that a little

689
00:19:08,430 --> 00:19:09,549
bit, passive versus active

690
00:19:09,549 --> 00:19:10,349
plant.

691
00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:12,309
Oh boy, this is a fun one.

692
00:19:12,650 --> 00:19:13,450
So

693
00:19:13,450 --> 00:19:16,720
the concept of passive immunity

694
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,259
versus active immunity is

695
00:19:18,259 --> 00:19:19,559
essentially a

696
00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:21,700
rethinking of

697
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:23,519
the disease triangle.

698
00:19:24,059 --> 00:19:24,859
So

699
00:19:24,650 --> 00:19:26,109
most everyone's familiar with

700
00:19:26,109 --> 00:19:26,909
the disease triangle.

701
00:19:27,029 --> 00:19:28,450
You have the combination of a

702
00:19:28,450 --> 00:19:29,410
susceptible host,

703
00:19:29,829 --> 00:19:31,029
the appropriate environment, and

704
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:32,069
the presence of a pathogen.

705
00:19:32,970 --> 00:19:33,869
And I

706
00:19:34,180 --> 00:19:35,440
would suggest that we haven't

707
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,920
thought deeply enough about what

708
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,440
it means to be a susceptible

709
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,480
host and what is an appropriate

710
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:42,279
environment.

711
00:19:42,660 --> 00:19:43,700
The

712
00:19:44,210 --> 00:19:47,230
usual thinking is that

713
00:19:47,230 --> 00:19:50,619
if you have a particular plant,

714
00:19:50,740 --> 00:19:52,420
a crop, let's say you have an

715
00:19:52,420 --> 00:19:53,220
apple tree,

716
00:19:54,369 --> 00:19:57,509
and if you have a scab presence

717
00:19:58,109 --> 00:20:00,009
in the ecosystem, in the

718
00:20:00,009 --> 00:20:00,809
environment,

719
00:20:01,069 --> 00:20:02,529
the simple fact that the apple

720
00:20:02,529 --> 00:20:04,609
tree is an apple tree means that

721
00:20:04,609 --> 00:20:05,409
it is

722
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:06,680
inherently susceptible.

723
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:09,220
That's usually as far as the

724
00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:10,720
thinking goes. Well, we know

725
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:11,859
that that's not true and it's

726
00:20:11,859 --> 00:20:13,059
not just because of genetics.

727
00:20:13,380 --> 00:20:14,680
You can have some resistant

728
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:15,559
varieties, you can have

729
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:16,680
susceptible varieties, but you

730
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:17,480
also have

731
00:20:17,769 --> 00:20:19,390
susceptible varieties that have

732
00:20:19,390 --> 00:20:20,750
been provided with very good

733
00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:21,690
nutrition that are completely

734
00:20:21,690 --> 00:20:22,490
resistant.

735
00:20:23,450 --> 00:20:24,250
And so

736
00:20:24,759 --> 00:20:25,559
as

737
00:20:25,859 --> 00:20:27,180
we started looking

738
00:20:27,529 --> 00:20:29,069
at what was happening with plant

739
00:20:29,069 --> 00:20:30,509
physiology and how plants were

740
00:20:30,509 --> 00:20:31,309
interacting with their

741
00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:32,049
microbiome,

742
00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:34,160
we observed kind of two

743
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:35,759
different states of immunity.

744
00:20:36,859 --> 00:20:38,640
The one state of the passive

745
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:39,440
immunity

746
00:20:39,819 --> 00:20:42,880
is simply a function of mineral

747
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:43,839
-nutritional balance.

748
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:44,880
This is at the bottom of the

749
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:46,000
plant health pyramid, the first

750
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:46,799
two levels.

751
00:20:47,460 --> 00:20:49,079
And at these first two levels,

752
00:20:49,339 --> 00:20:50,380
these plants become

753
00:20:50,910 --> 00:20:53,410
resistant to soil -borne

754
00:20:53,410 --> 00:20:54,369
diseases and they become

755
00:20:54,369 --> 00:20:56,309
resistant to some groups of

756
00:20:56,309 --> 00:20:57,109
insects

757
00:20:57,049 --> 00:20:59,349
simply as a result of changing

758
00:20:59,349 --> 00:21:01,369
the plant's internal nutritional

759
00:21:01,369 --> 00:21:02,169
state,

760
00:21:02,829 --> 00:21:03,950
changing the carbohydrate

761
00:21:03,950 --> 00:21:05,769
profile, changing the amino acid

762
00:21:05,769 --> 00:21:07,289
profile, changing the peptide

763
00:21:07,289 --> 00:21:09,190
profile. That change of the

764
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:10,390
plant's internal nutritional

765
00:21:10,750 --> 00:21:12,829
basically to no longer have

766
00:21:12,829 --> 00:21:14,150
excess of electrolytes

767
00:21:14,809 --> 00:21:16,930
removes that plant as a possible

768
00:21:16,930 --> 00:21:17,730
food source.

769
00:21:17,950 --> 00:21:19,369
So the plant isn't actively

770
00:21:19,369 --> 00:21:21,829
trying to kill powdery mildew or

771
00:21:21,829 --> 00:21:23,349
to kill scab or anything at this

772
00:21:23,349 --> 00:21:24,650
point. It's just simply no

773
00:21:24,650 --> 00:21:25,730
longer, it is no longer a

774
00:21:25,730 --> 00:21:27,480
susceptible host because its

775
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:28,819
nutritional profile has changed.

776
00:21:29,420 --> 00:21:30,799
So that is passive immunity.

777
00:21:30,940 --> 00:21:32,319
That's that's level one and

778
00:21:32,319 --> 00:21:33,319
level two of the plant health

779
00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:34,119
pyramid.

780
00:21:34,779 --> 00:21:36,599
But then the second half, level

781
00:21:36,599 --> 00:21:37,660
three, level four of the plant

782
00:21:37,660 --> 00:21:38,819
health pyramid is when the plant

783
00:21:38,819 --> 00:21:40,259
switches to active immunity.

784
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:41,480
And

785
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:42,380
in active immunity,

786
00:21:43,569 --> 00:21:44,650
there's some interesting things

787
00:21:44,650 --> 00:21:45,829
that happen here where plants

788
00:21:46,140 --> 00:21:47,880
now start getting the majority

789
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:48,940
of their nutrition from

790
00:21:49,099 --> 00:21:50,039
microbes.

791
00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:52,940
They're absorbing live microbes

792
00:21:52,940 --> 00:21:54,359
from the soil, moving them into

793
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:55,159
the plant.

794
00:21:55,730 --> 00:21:56,529
And

795
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:57,960
in this process,

796
00:21:58,920 --> 00:21:59,940
these

797
00:22:01,819 --> 00:22:03,700
plants become very energy

798
00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:04,500
efficient.

799
00:22:04,660 --> 00:22:05,980
And the microbes themselves

800
00:22:05,980 --> 00:22:07,799
produce lots of these compounds

801
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,359
that we call phytonutrients.

802
00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:12,160
These are phenolic compounds and

803
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,160
terpenoids and bioflavonoids.

804
00:22:14,259 --> 00:22:15,279
In plain English, we call them

805
00:22:15,279 --> 00:22:16,079
essential oils.

806
00:22:16,849 --> 00:22:19,329
And these are the plant's co

807
00:22:19,329 --> 00:22:20,829
-evolutionary arms race,

808
00:22:21,569 --> 00:22:23,690
where this is their biological

809
00:22:23,690 --> 00:22:25,970
warfare version of how they

810
00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:27,369
can't run away from diseases.

811
00:22:28,289 --> 00:22:29,650
So they develop all these

812
00:22:29,650 --> 00:22:31,210
compounds as plant protectants

813
00:22:31,210 --> 00:22:32,269
to protect themselves from

814
00:22:32,269 --> 00:22:33,529
ultraviolet radiation, from

815
00:22:33,529 --> 00:22:34,789
insect attack and disease

816
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:36,150
attack, and from overgrazing and

817
00:22:36,150 --> 00:22:36,950
so forth.

818
00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:39,099
And I don't think it's not

819
00:22:39,099 --> 00:22:40,779
commonly realized, we're now

820
00:22:40,779 --> 00:22:41,980
starting to study the human

821
00:22:41,980 --> 00:22:42,980
health impact of these

822
00:22:42,980 --> 00:22:44,099
compounds, but many of these

823
00:22:44,099 --> 00:22:44,899
compounds

824
00:22:45,410 --> 00:22:46,210
have,

825
00:22:47,460 --> 00:22:49,849
they have the capacity to kill

826
00:22:50,190 --> 00:22:50,990
directly.

827
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:53,369
They are antiviral,

828
00:22:53,789 --> 00:22:55,130
they're antifungal, they're

829
00:22:55,130 --> 00:22:56,069
antibacterial,

830
00:22:56,650 --> 00:22:59,130
and they inhibit the digestive

831
00:22:59,130 --> 00:23:00,569
processes of insects.

832
00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:02,859
So, they're anti -herbivory.

833
00:23:03,450 --> 00:23:05,009
They have the capacity, this is

834
00:23:05,009 --> 00:23:06,490
a the plant shifting from a

835
00:23:06,490 --> 00:23:08,009
passive immunity to an active

836
00:23:08,009 --> 00:23:09,650
immunity state where it is

837
00:23:09,650 --> 00:23:11,430
actively resisting

838
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:14,400
infection by a whole host, an

839
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,579
array of different organisms.

840
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:17,190
And you know,

841
00:23:17,299 --> 00:23:19,220
some of these compounds or

842
00:23:19,849 --> 00:23:22,369
some of these plant essential

843
00:23:22,369 --> 00:23:24,049
oil combinations are

844
00:23:24,420 --> 00:23:25,579
so potent.

845
00:23:26,660 --> 00:23:27,940
There was a couple of years ago,

846
00:23:27,980 --> 00:23:29,019
a study was published on

847
00:23:29,019 --> 00:23:29,819
cinnamon oil.

848
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:32,670
for the control or the treatment

849
00:23:32,670 --> 00:23:34,369
of antibiotic resistant Staph

850
00:23:34,369 --> 00:23:36,490
aureus. So we now have Staph in

851
00:23:36,490 --> 00:23:37,730
hospital environments, which is

852
00:23:37,730 --> 00:23:39,150
resistant to multiple types of

853
00:23:39,150 --> 00:23:39,950
antibiotics,

854
00:23:40,369 --> 00:23:41,549
different groups of antibiotics.

855
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:44,190
They studied cinnamon oil

856
00:23:44,190 --> 00:23:45,329
extensively. They're now using

857
00:23:45,329 --> 00:23:46,630
cinnamon oil as a cleaning agent

858
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:47,609
in some of these environments.

859
00:23:48,809 --> 00:23:50,329
Cinnamon oil, so each of these

860
00:23:50,329 --> 00:23:52,150
antibiotics has usually one

861
00:23:52,150 --> 00:23:54,390
specific mechanism or mode of

862
00:23:54,390 --> 00:23:55,829
action against Staph.

863
00:23:57,549 --> 00:23:59,089
Cinnamon oil has over 300.

864
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:01,980
Do you think Staph aureus is

865
00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:03,099
ever going to become resistant

866
00:24:03,099 --> 00:24:03,899
to cinnamon oil?

867
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:05,430
No way.

868
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:06,920
Highly doubt it.

869
00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:08,140
You know, too many compounds,

870
00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:09,259
too many different mechanisms,

871
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:10,200
too many different modes of

872
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,000
action.

873
00:24:11,289 --> 00:24:12,630
Cinnamon oil is just one that

874
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:14,650
what we do know that it is that

875
00:24:14,650 --> 00:24:15,609
it is very potent,

876
00:24:16,180 --> 00:24:18,000
but it just happens to be much

877
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:18,799
more

878
00:24:18,980 --> 00:24:20,720
studied and much better studied

879
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:21,519
than many of these other

880
00:24:21,420 --> 00:24:22,640
compounds. The reality is

881
00:24:23,140 --> 00:24:25,279
a tomato plant or a corn plant

882
00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:27,140
also produces these exact same

883
00:24:27,140 --> 00:24:27,940
compounds.

884
00:24:28,819 --> 00:24:29,960
Only when they're healthy,

885
00:24:30,039 --> 00:24:30,839
though, correct?

886
00:24:30,599 --> 00:24:31,839
When it has the proper, yeah,

887
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,359
when they have proper nutrient

888
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:34,900
density, there are certain

889
00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:36,099
things that have to be there.

890
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:38,880
No, that's and that's

891
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:39,759
interesting. And that's and

892
00:24:39,759 --> 00:24:41,000
that's really how they mind they

893
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:41,940
mind what they're needing,

894
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,299
right? Those exudates in the

895
00:24:43,299 --> 00:24:44,579
soil are saying, Hey, I need

896
00:24:44,579 --> 00:24:46,740
this. I need this nutritional

897
00:24:46,740 --> 00:24:47,819
piece to my diet,

898
00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:49,519
please provide it to me or

899
00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:50,920
whatever that may look like.

900
00:24:51,319 --> 00:24:52,579
But the reality is then those

901
00:24:52,579 --> 00:24:53,660
plants are up taking that

902
00:24:53,660 --> 00:24:54,460
nutrition,

903
00:24:55,069 --> 00:24:56,670
building very, very healthy,

904
00:24:56,750 --> 00:24:58,450
healthy, healthy, you know,

905
00:24:58,829 --> 00:24:59,990
bio systems, not only in the

906
00:24:59,990 --> 00:25:01,319
soil, soil, but also plant

907
00:25:01,319 --> 00:25:02,519
defenses on the plant

908
00:25:02,829 --> 00:25:03,670
all in one,

909
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,500
you know, um, not to mention

910
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:07,960
increasing bricks levels, things

911
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:08,759
like that. Correct.

912
00:25:09,250 --> 00:25:10,710
I mean, it's the whole gamut.

913
00:25:11,130 --> 00:25:12,750
Well, the bottom line

914
00:25:13,410 --> 00:25:16,130
driver of this whole system

915
00:25:16,990 --> 00:25:18,569
is the plant's photosynthesis

916
00:25:18,569 --> 00:25:19,369
engine.

917
00:25:19,970 --> 00:25:22,309
The plant regulates what happens

918
00:25:22,309 --> 00:25:23,710
with the soil microbiome.

919
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,019
The plant vectors its own

920
00:25:26,019 --> 00:25:28,160
microbiome inside the seed and

921
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:29,359
hopefully on the seed if it

922
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:30,200
hasn't been nuked with

923
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:31,519
fungicides and insecticides and

924
00:25:31,519 --> 00:25:32,319
everything else.

925
00:25:33,089 --> 00:25:33,889
And

926
00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:35,430
so

927
00:25:35,839 --> 00:25:36,639
there

928
00:25:39,180 --> 00:25:40,480
are all of these conversations

929
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,319
about how we can regenerate soil

930
00:25:42,319 --> 00:25:44,559
health by adding compost and by

931
00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:45,799
adding different soil amendments

932
00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:47,119
and balancing soil mineral

933
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,019
profiles. And

934
00:25:48,430 --> 00:25:49,769
all of those things can be

935
00:25:49,769 --> 00:25:50,569
beneficial.

936
00:25:50,650 --> 00:25:52,569
I'm certainly made many

937
00:25:52,569 --> 00:25:54,089
recommendations for those types

938
00:25:54,089 --> 00:25:55,170
of amendments and those types of

939
00:25:55,170 --> 00:25:56,410
approaches in different contexts

940
00:25:56,410 --> 00:25:57,210
and settings.

941
00:25:58,349 --> 00:25:59,490
But I think what is

942
00:25:59,490 --> 00:26:00,990
underappreciated is

943
00:26:01,299 --> 00:26:03,380
the fastest way to regenerate

944
00:26:03,380 --> 00:26:04,920
soil and the fastest way to

945
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,619
regenerate a microbiome is to

946
00:26:06,619 --> 00:26:08,460
have green plants that are

947
00:26:08,460 --> 00:26:09,299
photosynthesizing.

948
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,119
When you do the arithmetic,

949
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,359
you know, if you go back into

950
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:15,539
the historical agronomic

951
00:26:15,539 --> 00:26:17,539
literature in the 50s and 60s

952
00:26:17,539 --> 00:26:18,599
and even through the 70s,

953
00:26:19,170 --> 00:26:20,609
if you ask the agronomists of

954
00:26:20,609 --> 00:26:22,509
the day the fastest way to build

955
00:26:22,509 --> 00:26:23,349
soil organic matter,

956
00:26:23,940 --> 00:26:25,259
the prevailing answer was the

957
00:26:25,259 --> 00:26:26,140
fastest way to build soil

958
00:26:26,140 --> 00:26:27,240
organic matter is to grow a corn

959
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:28,039
crop.

960
00:26:28,690 --> 00:26:30,670
Today, somehow, we've come to

961
00:26:30,670 --> 00:26:32,230
the expectation that the fastest

962
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:33,529
way to lose organic matter is to

963
00:26:33,529 --> 00:26:34,329
grow a corn crop.

964
00:26:34,730 --> 00:26:35,769
So what's different?

965
00:26:35,950 --> 00:26:36,750
What's changed?

966
00:26:36,609 --> 00:26:37,409
Well,

967
00:26:37,450 --> 00:26:38,490
one of the significant things

968
00:26:38,490 --> 00:26:39,710
that has changed is the quantity

969
00:26:39,710 --> 00:26:40,849
of nitrogen that we use, but

970
00:26:40,849 --> 00:26:41,910
that's another conversation.

971
00:26:42,710 --> 00:26:43,970
But when you start looking at

972
00:26:43,970 --> 00:26:44,769
the math,

973
00:26:45,210 --> 00:26:47,849
the quantity of sugars

974
00:26:48,809 --> 00:26:51,829
in the roots and root exudates

975
00:26:51,829 --> 00:26:53,170
combined on

976
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,670
a healthy corn crop, roughly

977
00:26:55,670 --> 00:26:57,250
double the quantity of sugars

978
00:26:57,250 --> 00:26:58,130
removed in the grain.

979
00:27:00,740 --> 00:27:01,599
And you

980
00:27:01,980 --> 00:27:03,220
look at that and you say,

981
00:27:03,859 --> 00:27:04,659
my goodness,

982
00:27:04,940 --> 00:27:05,740
we're removing,

983
00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:07,759
I don't know, I'm making up

984
00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:09,039
numbers here. We're removing 5

985
00:27:09,039 --> 00:27:11,500
,000 pounds of sugars per acre

986
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:12,299
on

987
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,339
a grain crop. That means we've

988
00:27:14,339 --> 00:27:17,000
got 10 ,000 pounds of sugars at

989
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:17,799
the soil profile.

990
00:27:18,079 --> 00:27:18,900
Now, again, the caveat,

991
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,660
the qualifier here is that this

992
00:27:20,660 --> 00:27:21,579
is a healthy crop.

993
00:27:23,289 --> 00:27:25,130
Not all crops and most crops

994
00:27:25,130 --> 00:27:26,309
today don't do this because

995
00:27:26,309 --> 00:27:27,369
they're not photosynthesizing

996
00:27:27,369 --> 00:27:28,169
well enough.

997
00:27:28,369 --> 00:27:29,289
But you look at that and you

998
00:27:29,289 --> 00:27:30,549
say, well, my goodness, you

999
00:27:30,549 --> 00:27:32,210
cannot economically afford to

1000
00:27:32,210 --> 00:27:34,529
put on enough compost or carbon

1001
00:27:34,529 --> 00:27:36,710
in any form to match with that.

1002
00:27:37,140 --> 00:27:37,940
You can't.

1003
00:27:38,730 --> 00:27:39,529
The best,

1004
00:27:39,589 --> 00:27:41,509
the most economical way to

1005
00:27:41,509 --> 00:27:43,250
regenerate soil is to regenerate

1006
00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:45,069
soil while we are growing a crop

1007
00:27:45,069 --> 00:27:46,490
or by growing cover crops.

1008
00:27:46,589 --> 00:27:47,389
That is how

1009
00:27:47,630 --> 00:27:49,130
You build carbon and build

1010
00:27:49,130 --> 00:27:50,789
sugars into the soil in the most

1011
00:27:50,789 --> 00:27:52,809
efficient and most effective and

1012
00:27:52,809 --> 00:27:54,150
inexpensive way possible.

1013
00:27:54,430 --> 00:27:56,589
Yes. You know, just a quick

1014
00:27:56,589 --> 00:27:58,549
sidebar, but I know there have

1015
00:27:58,549 --> 00:28:00,609
been several growers who we've

1016
00:28:00,609 --> 00:28:01,690
worked with over the years who

1017
00:28:01,690 --> 00:28:02,650
I've learned from.

1018
00:28:04,180 --> 00:28:06,869
They say that, and this is one

1019
00:28:06,869 --> 00:28:08,630
end of the spectrum was Chef's

1020
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:09,829
Garden in Sandusky, Ohio.

1021
00:28:09,950 --> 00:28:10,970
On the other end of the spectrum

1022
00:28:10,970 --> 00:28:12,490
is Brian

1023
00:28:13,250 --> 00:28:14,089
McGuire from

1024
00:28:14,460 --> 00:28:16,599
Nebraska, who's a mainstream

1025
00:28:16,599 --> 00:28:17,399
crop farmer.

1026
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,859
and very, very challenged

1027
00:28:20,859 --> 00:28:22,099
economics of corn and soybean

1028
00:28:22,099 --> 00:28:22,899
production.

1029
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,480
They both have come to the same

1030
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:25,279
conclusion.

1031
00:28:25,650 --> 00:28:27,069
The conclusion is that you

1032
00:28:27,420 --> 00:28:29,460
must treat your cover crops like

1033
00:28:29,460 --> 00:28:30,319
a cash crop.

1034
00:28:30,859 --> 00:28:32,579
They fertilize their cover crops

1035
00:28:32,579 --> 00:28:34,819
and they foliar feed their cover

1036
00:28:34,819 --> 00:28:35,619
crops.

1037
00:28:35,799 --> 00:28:36,660
Because if

1038
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,809
they have figured out that if

1039
00:28:39,809 --> 00:28:40,609
they put,

1040
00:28:41,259 --> 00:28:42,059
I

1041
00:28:42,670 --> 00:28:43,549
don't know, I'm making up

1042
00:28:43,549 --> 00:28:44,569
numbers here, but if they put

1043
00:28:44,569 --> 00:28:46,910
$10 worth of nutrients and

1044
00:28:46,910 --> 00:28:48,130
foliar applications into that

1045
00:28:48,130 --> 00:28:48,930
cover crop,

1046
00:28:49,220 --> 00:28:51,799
that will be reduced 10 times to

1047
00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:55,299
20 times to 50 times over in the

1048
00:28:55,299 --> 00:28:57,400
nutrients that are contained in

1049
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,059
that cover crop biomass and in

1050
00:28:59,059 --> 00:29:00,099
the root exudates for the

1051
00:29:00,099 --> 00:29:00,899
following crop.

1052
00:29:01,539 --> 00:29:03,940
So their cover crops are an

1053
00:29:03,940 --> 00:29:06,190
accelerator where they can put

1054
00:29:06,190 --> 00:29:08,630
on 10 pounds of nitrogen on a

1055
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:10,150
cover crop and have that cover

1056
00:29:10,150 --> 00:29:11,450
crop contain 60 pounds of

1057
00:29:11,450 --> 00:29:12,730
nitrogen because they've

1058
00:29:12,730 --> 00:29:13,990
accelerated its growth

1059
00:29:14,359 --> 00:29:15,740
And it's vegetative biomass to

1060
00:29:15,740 --> 00:29:16,539
such a degree.

1061
00:29:17,109 --> 00:29:18,529
And they've both figured out,

1062
00:29:18,849 --> 00:29:20,069
and there's many other farmers

1063
00:29:20,069 --> 00:29:20,869
that have figured this out as

1064
00:29:20,869 --> 00:29:21,669
well, is that

1065
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,799
fertilizing cover crops is the

1066
00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:26,599
least expensive way of adding

1067
00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:27,799
fertilizer into the ecosystem

1068
00:29:27,799 --> 00:29:28,740
because you get this

1069
00:29:28,740 --> 00:29:30,039
disproportionately larger

1070
00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:31,700
response in available nutrients

1071
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:32,559
for the following crop.

1072
00:29:33,289 --> 00:29:34,089
Absolutely.

1073
00:29:34,569 --> 00:29:35,769
Absolutely. And I think that's

1074
00:29:35,769 --> 00:29:36,670
great that you say that.

1075
00:29:36,809 --> 00:29:37,769
And that's it. And that's what's

1076
00:29:37,769 --> 00:29:39,190
exciting about it is if you can

1077
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:39,990
grow

1078
00:29:40,740 --> 00:29:43,799
a crop there, right, a cover

1079
00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:45,420
crop, whatever that may be.

1080
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:46,819
And at the end of the day,

1081
00:29:47,420 --> 00:29:48,519
You're fixing, like you said,

1082
00:29:48,579 --> 00:29:51,339
you got $10 of fertilizer costs,

1083
00:29:52,180 --> 00:29:54,400
and you're putting 60 or 50 in

1084
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,220
your pocket because it's

1085
00:29:55,220 --> 00:29:56,019
costing, you know, you're

1086
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:56,920
getting 60 out of it.

1087
00:29:57,059 --> 00:29:58,079
I mean, think about it.

1088
00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:00,819
At the end of the day, price

1089
00:30:00,819 --> 00:30:02,960
-wise, not only that poundage of

1090
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,359
nitrogen being put into the

1091
00:30:04,359 --> 00:30:05,579
system, all of those things.

1092
00:30:06,319 --> 00:30:07,480
Out where we're at, a lot of

1093
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:08,579
people have a hard time growing

1094
00:30:08,579 --> 00:30:09,839
cover crops, John, and I'm going

1095
00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:10,799
to be honest with you.

1096
00:30:11,329 --> 00:30:12,129
Okay.

1097
00:30:12,210 --> 00:30:13,009
Yeah. I get it.

1098
00:30:12,930 --> 00:30:14,630
Yeah. You know, and so we run

1099
00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:16,089
into a lot of furrow irrigation,

1100
00:30:16,089 --> 00:30:17,730
things like that, you know, I

1101
00:30:17,730 --> 00:30:18,829
mean, we're really, we're in a

1102
00:30:18,829 --> 00:30:19,629
high desert,

1103
00:30:19,869 --> 00:30:20,669
let's be honest.

1104
00:30:20,569 --> 00:30:21,670
Right. But you're using furrow

1105
00:30:21,670 --> 00:30:22,849
irrigation. How much sense does

1106
00:30:22,849 --> 00:30:24,069
that make? It's hard.

1107
00:30:24,269 --> 00:30:25,329
I know. And that's the way the

1108
00:30:25,329 --> 00:30:26,769
system's designed at this point.

1109
00:30:27,250 --> 00:30:28,470
That's the hardest part, right?

1110
00:30:28,529 --> 00:30:30,250
It's, it's, it's fed out of the,

1111
00:30:30,250 --> 00:30:31,849
uh, the Gunnison tunnel and a

1112
00:30:31,849 --> 00:30:33,109
few other ways, a few other

1113
00:30:33,109 --> 00:30:33,950
water tributaries.

1114
00:30:33,950 --> 00:30:34,890
And I agree with you.

1115
00:30:35,589 --> 00:30:36,710
It's, it's really tough.

1116
00:30:36,849 --> 00:30:38,430
So at the end of the day,

1117
00:30:38,849 --> 00:30:40,309
If the guys that we're seeing

1118
00:30:40,309 --> 00:30:41,849
that are actually planting cover

1119
00:30:41,849 --> 00:30:43,109
crops on their soils,

1120
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:44,690
the regeneration

1121
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,140
happens at a much rapid pace,

1122
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,079
much more rapid pace at the end

1123
00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:49,879
of the day,

1124
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:50,759
you know,

1125
00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:52,000
and helps you deal with

1126
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,299
irrigation water quality issues

1127
00:30:53,299 --> 00:30:54,180
as well. I don't know if that's

1128
00:30:54,180 --> 00:30:54,980
an issue for you.

1129
00:30:54,819 --> 00:30:56,279
But if it is, yeah, help with

1130
00:30:56,279 --> 00:30:57,079
that.

1131
00:30:56,940 --> 00:30:57,880
Well, that and then not only

1132
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:58,900
that, but the guy that can take

1133
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:00,720
in more photosynthesis on their

1134
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:01,900
fields are the guy that's gonna

1135
00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:02,700
win, right?

1136
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:04,119
That's the farmer, that's the

1137
00:31:04,119 --> 00:31:05,880
producer that who can capture

1138
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,519
more light energy over an acre

1139
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:08,319
of ground.

1140
00:31:09,049 --> 00:31:10,130
is going to be the guy that

1141
00:31:10,130 --> 00:31:12,329
grows more, more production,

1142
00:31:13,599 --> 00:31:15,380
healthier crops, all of those

1143
00:31:15,380 --> 00:31:16,180
things.

1144
00:31:16,259 --> 00:31:17,059
Would you agree?

1145
00:31:17,619 --> 00:31:18,419
Well,

1146
00:31:18,319 --> 00:31:19,220
yes, I would agree.

1147
00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:20,779
That's very true in the long

1148
00:31:20,779 --> 00:31:22,619
term. And we need to figure out,

1149
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,259
I shouldn't say we need to

1150
00:31:24,259 --> 00:31:25,400
figure it out because we've

1151
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:26,259
already, many people have

1152
00:31:26,259 --> 00:31:27,059
already figured it out.

1153
00:31:27,039 --> 00:31:29,460
But we need to describe how that

1154
00:31:29,460 --> 00:31:30,720
is possible, not just in the

1155
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:31,759
long term, but also in the short

1156
00:31:31,759 --> 00:31:33,220
term. I mean, there's been far

1157
00:31:33,220 --> 00:31:34,720
too many conversations as far as

1158
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:35,519
I'm concerned,

1159
00:31:35,839 --> 00:31:37,720
about this regenerative model of

1160
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:38,920
agriculture being, oh, we'll

1161
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,000
grow cover crops and we'll

1162
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,220
rebuild soil health and we'll

1163
00:31:41,220 --> 00:31:42,740
get better crop results in five

1164
00:31:42,740 --> 00:31:43,539
years.

1165
00:31:43,740 --> 00:31:44,539
Well,

1166
00:31:44,549 --> 00:31:46,670
that doesn't work economically,

1167
00:31:47,390 --> 00:31:48,930
particularly not in the current

1168
00:31:48,930 --> 00:31:50,089
macroeconomic environment.

1169
00:31:51,109 --> 00:31:53,750
And so what needs to happen

1170
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,279
is,

1171
00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:57,140
and this is something we've

1172
00:31:57,140 --> 00:31:59,059
obsessed over for the last two

1173
00:31:59,059 --> 00:32:00,940
decades, is what are the

1174
00:32:00,940 --> 00:32:03,200
agronomic recommendations that

1175
00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:05,190
can start guiding us in a

1176
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:06,690
different direction, a state of

1177
00:32:06,690 --> 00:32:07,549
less dependency,

1178
00:32:08,349 --> 00:32:09,849
and that produce and deliver

1179
00:32:09,849 --> 00:32:11,690
immediate economic crop

1180
00:32:11,690 --> 00:32:13,430
response, immediate as in

1181
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:15,480
current year, or in the case of

1182
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:16,819
cover crops, subsequent season,

1183
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:17,799
subsequent year,

1184
00:32:18,940 --> 00:32:19,900
there has to be an immediate

1185
00:32:19,900 --> 00:32:20,700
ROI.

1186
00:32:20,859 --> 00:32:22,059
And if it doesn't deliver an

1187
00:32:22,059 --> 00:32:23,500
immediate ROI in the current

1188
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:25,079
marketplace, you can't expect

1189
00:32:25,079 --> 00:32:26,180
people to adopt it.

1190
00:32:27,369 --> 00:32:28,169
That's right.

1191
00:32:29,420 --> 00:32:30,299
They can't lose money.

1192
00:32:31,980 --> 00:32:33,119
And there's only, you know, I

1193
00:32:33,119 --> 00:32:34,259
mean, these farms, they can't.

1194
00:32:34,359 --> 00:32:35,339
And that's the thing is they

1195
00:32:35,339 --> 00:32:36,619
have loans, they have, you know,

1196
00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:37,500
payments to make,

1197
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,160
you know, you do run into a few

1198
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:40,660
of those ranches a few of those

1199
00:32:40,660 --> 00:32:41,759
farms that at the end of the

1200
00:32:41,759 --> 00:32:42,880
day, if you look at it,

1201
00:32:43,259 --> 00:32:44,420
they might have other sources of

1202
00:32:44,420 --> 00:32:45,740
income that they want to do this

1203
00:32:45,740 --> 00:32:46,680
to their land, correct?

1204
00:32:47,529 --> 00:32:49,130
But you can't have that lag.

1205
00:32:49,289 --> 00:32:50,890
You have to be able to show a

1206
00:32:50,890 --> 00:32:51,769
return on investment

1207
00:32:51,769 --> 00:32:52,569
immediately.

1208
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:54,750
Yeah. The pieces that I

1209
00:32:55,289 --> 00:32:56,089
would say

1210
00:32:57,890 --> 00:32:59,410
depends a little bit on how you

1211
00:32:59,410 --> 00:33:00,829
define immediately, but our

1212
00:33:00,829 --> 00:33:02,789
experience has been that the

1213
00:33:02,789 --> 00:33:04,710
single greatest ROI

1214
00:33:05,309 --> 00:33:08,049
and most immediate ROI

1215
00:33:08,529 --> 00:33:09,329
is

1216
00:33:09,349 --> 00:33:10,470
seed treatments,

1217
00:33:10,910 --> 00:33:11,990
microbial inoculant seed

1218
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:12,789
treatments.

1219
00:33:13,460 --> 00:33:15,000
We have a product called BioCoat

1220
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,279
Gold that costs $4 an acre to

1221
00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:18,440
apply on corn and soybeans.

1222
00:33:19,539 --> 00:33:20,339
And the

1223
00:33:20,900 --> 00:33:22,960
ROI, as you can imagine, the ROI

1224
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,500
threshold there is very small.

1225
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:25,880
And the crop that

1226
00:33:26,190 --> 00:33:27,970
response that it produces

1227
00:33:28,529 --> 00:33:29,450
What is interesting about

1228
00:33:29,450 --> 00:33:31,430
biococcal is its consistency of

1229
00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:34,150
response, that it produces a

1230
00:33:34,150 --> 00:33:35,890
yield response the majority of

1231
00:33:35,890 --> 00:33:36,690
the time.

1232
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:38,470
There's lots of microbinoculants

1233
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:40,029
that produce tremendous

1234
00:33:40,029 --> 00:33:41,369
responses some of the time,

1235
00:33:42,269 --> 00:33:43,670
but what we really need is

1236
00:33:43,670 --> 00:33:45,309
product performance consistency.

1237
00:33:46,049 --> 00:33:47,690
So the applications that we

1238
00:33:47,690 --> 00:33:49,380
found to be consistent

1239
00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:50,779
performers are seed treatments,

1240
00:33:51,410 --> 00:33:52,450
well -designed foliar

1241
00:33:52,450 --> 00:33:53,250
applications,

1242
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:55,049
And then in some settings, in

1243
00:33:55,049 --> 00:33:56,410
some contexts, treating your

1244
00:33:56,410 --> 00:33:59,029
cover crop as a cash crop for

1245
00:33:59,029 --> 00:34:00,710
the following crop also carries

1246
00:34:00,710 --> 00:34:01,609
a substantial ROI.

1247
00:34:02,140 --> 00:34:03,279
Isn't that how nature works?

1248
00:34:04,049 --> 00:34:05,789
I ask the question sometimes

1249
00:34:05,789 --> 00:34:07,029
because I want to really

1250
00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:08,250
understand things from a first

1251
00:34:08,250 --> 00:34:09,170
principles perspective.

1252
00:34:09,210 --> 00:34:10,949
And I ask the question, how did

1253
00:34:10,949 --> 00:34:12,269
we get to this place in

1254
00:34:12,269 --> 00:34:13,869
agriculture? How did we arrive

1255
00:34:13,869 --> 00:34:14,670
here?

1256
00:34:14,690 --> 00:34:16,510
And because a lot of this

1257
00:34:16,510 --> 00:34:18,170
knowledge of how to do things

1258
00:34:18,170 --> 00:34:20,230
differently was prevailing

1259
00:34:20,969 --> 00:34:22,409
knowledge and it was there were

1260
00:34:22,409 --> 00:34:24,409
many pioneers and voices in the

1261
00:34:24,409 --> 00:34:26,110
40s and 50s and 60s who said,

1262
00:34:26,210 --> 00:34:27,190
hey, we need to go down a

1263
00:34:27,190 --> 00:34:27,990
different pathway.

1264
00:34:28,449 --> 00:34:29,889
But we ended up not going down a

1265
00:34:29,889 --> 00:34:30,869
different pathway than the one

1266
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:31,670
we've gone down.

1267
00:34:31,610 --> 00:34:32,869
And then I tried to wanted to

1268
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:33,670
understand why.

1269
00:34:34,570 --> 00:34:35,510
And I'm

1270
00:34:36,039 --> 00:34:36,840
of the persuasion

1271
00:34:37,590 --> 00:34:40,469
that the foundational reason why

1272
00:34:40,469 --> 00:34:41,730
we've gone down this pathway

1273
00:34:41,730 --> 00:34:43,510
that we have in agriculture is

1274
00:34:43,789 --> 00:34:44,789
because of our intellectual

1275
00:34:44,789 --> 00:34:46,170
property protection framework.

1276
00:34:47,260 --> 00:34:49,440
You can patent a pesticide that

1277
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:50,940
has a specific mechanism or mode

1278
00:34:50,940 --> 00:34:51,740
of action.

1279
00:34:51,940 --> 00:34:53,460
You can patent a GMO.

1280
00:34:53,739 --> 00:34:54,539
You can patent

1281
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,440
all types of different

1282
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,260
intellectual property.

1283
00:34:57,300 --> 00:34:59,159
You can patent one particular

1284
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:01,260
bug, one particular microbe to

1285
00:35:01,260 --> 00:35:02,659
treat one particular disease.

1286
00:35:03,269 --> 00:35:04,409
You know what you can't patent?

1287
00:35:04,809 --> 00:35:06,230
You cannot patent or you cannot

1288
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:07,489
protect the intellectual

1289
00:35:07,489 --> 00:35:09,289
property of having a consortium

1290
00:35:09,289 --> 00:35:10,909
of 20 or 30 different microbes

1291
00:35:10,909 --> 00:35:13,050
that in concert with each other

1292
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:14,760
produce an interesting effect.

1293
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,079
And yet that's how natural

1294
00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:18,719
ecosystems actually work.

1295
00:35:19,769 --> 00:35:20,570
And so we

1296
00:35:20,909 --> 00:35:24,039
have all of these various

1297
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:25,380
products that are,

1298
00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:28,409
there are developed specific

1299
00:35:28,409 --> 00:35:30,329
mechanisms, specific modes of

1300
00:35:30,329 --> 00:35:31,969
action or specific microbes for

1301
00:35:31,969 --> 00:35:32,929
specific problems.

1302
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:35,510
But what we should be doing is

1303
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:36,630
we should be using broad

1304
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:38,070
spectrums. We should be using

1305
00:35:38,070 --> 00:35:39,710
consortiums and groups of

1306
00:35:39,710 --> 00:35:40,869
microbes because that is how

1307
00:35:40,869 --> 00:35:41,989
natural ecosystems actually

1308
00:35:41,989 --> 00:35:42,789
work.

1309
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,940
And I'm of the persuasion that

1310
00:35:44,940 --> 00:35:46,460
if there were an intellectual

1311
00:35:46,460 --> 00:35:47,940
property protection framework to

1312
00:35:47,940 --> 00:35:49,619
protect that, we would be much,

1313
00:35:49,780 --> 00:35:50,920
we would have gone down a much

1314
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:51,720
further,

1315
00:35:51,739 --> 00:35:52,739
we would have gone down a very

1316
00:35:52,739 --> 00:35:54,739
different pathway 60 years ago.

1317
00:35:54,860 --> 00:35:55,980
We wouldn't have, if there were

1318
00:35:55,980 --> 00:35:58,179
a, if there were a pathway for

1319
00:35:58,460 --> 00:35:59,260
protecting

1320
00:36:00,260 --> 00:36:02,420
crop genetic improvements other

1321
00:36:02,420 --> 00:36:04,219
than GMOs, we probably wouldn't

1322
00:36:04,219 --> 00:36:05,920
have GMOs. So how do microbes

1323
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,199
act as the engine that pushes

1324
00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:08,500
the plant up these levels?

1325
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,300
We're talking back again about

1326
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:11,260
your plant health pyramid.

1327
00:36:11,639 --> 00:36:12,960
Well, I'm trying to think of how

1328
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,320
to compress this long

1329
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:15,739
conversation down into a few

1330
00:36:15,739 --> 00:36:16,539
minutes.

1331
00:36:16,659 --> 00:36:18,840
The simple framework is that

1332
00:36:19,690 --> 00:36:21,670
we have been taught in

1333
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:23,590
mainstream agronomy for the last

1334
00:36:23,590 --> 00:36:24,390
half

1335
00:36:24,739 --> 00:36:26,320
century or longer that

1336
00:36:26,849 --> 00:36:28,389
plants primarily absorb

1337
00:36:28,389 --> 00:36:30,659
nutrients as soluble ions from

1338
00:36:30,659 --> 00:36:32,119
the soil solution, where we have

1339
00:36:32,119 --> 00:36:33,840
calcium ions and magnesium and

1340
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:35,059
sodium and nitrogen ions in the

1341
00:36:35,059 --> 00:36:36,219
soil solution and plants absorb

1342
00:36:36,219 --> 00:36:37,019
those.

1343
00:36:38,010 --> 00:36:38,849
And we're

1344
00:36:39,380 --> 00:36:40,920
now coming to understand that,

1345
00:36:41,059 --> 00:36:41,900
well, first of all, that is

1346
00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:42,860
true. Plants do have the

1347
00:36:42,860 --> 00:36:43,860
capacity to do that.

1348
00:36:44,460 --> 00:36:45,420
After all, that's how

1349
00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:46,239
hydroponics works.

1350
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,400
And if we depend on that model

1351
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:50,480
of plant nutrition,

1352
00:36:51,019 --> 00:36:52,500
that hydroponic model for

1353
00:36:53,449 --> 00:36:54,969
our agricultural nutrient

1354
00:36:54,969 --> 00:36:55,949
delivery, then

1355
00:36:56,769 --> 00:36:58,190
How much sense does that make,

1356
00:36:58,309 --> 00:36:59,130
particularly in the environment

1357
00:36:59,130 --> 00:37:00,230
that you're in, Brandon, in a

1358
00:37:00,230 --> 00:37:01,030
dryland environment?

1359
00:37:01,510 --> 00:37:03,010
Why would you rely on a

1360
00:37:03,010 --> 00:37:04,690
fundamentally hydroponic model

1361
00:37:04,940 --> 00:37:06,280
for a dryland environment

1362
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,360
agriculture? It makes no sense,

1363
00:37:08,380 --> 00:37:09,380
because what

1364
00:37:09,690 --> 00:37:12,039
happens when you either A, have

1365
00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:13,820
too much water, or B, you have

1366
00:37:13,820 --> 00:37:14,620
too little water?

1367
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:16,639
Your water -soluble nutrients

1368
00:37:16,639 --> 00:37:18,199
are either diluted or

1369
00:37:18,539 --> 00:37:19,340
unavailable.

1370
00:37:20,730 --> 00:37:21,530
And

1371
00:37:22,489 --> 00:37:23,989
over the last,

1372
00:37:25,219 --> 00:37:26,800
this has been knowledge that

1373
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,380
actually has been around a long

1374
00:37:28,380 --> 00:37:29,639
time. There were pioneers who

1375
00:37:29,639 --> 00:37:30,800
pointed in this direction.

1376
00:37:31,389 --> 00:37:32,809
But the knowledge has really

1377
00:37:32,809 --> 00:37:34,030
accelerated in the last 20

1378
00:37:34,030 --> 00:37:35,010
years, the realization that

1379
00:37:35,010 --> 00:37:36,889
there is another model of plant

1380
00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:38,219
nutrient absorption.

1381
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,800
And this model is based on

1382
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,039
plants absorbing nutrition

1383
00:37:43,039 --> 00:37:44,679
through biology, where we

1384
00:37:44,679 --> 00:37:45,619
understand that

1385
00:37:46,349 --> 00:37:49,010
this is going to be a rather

1386
00:37:49,010 --> 00:37:50,230
crude oversimplification.

1387
00:37:50,449 --> 00:37:51,769
But for the interest of time,

1388
00:37:51,829 --> 00:37:53,010
I'll just oversimplify it to

1389
00:37:53,010 --> 00:37:54,769
say, I'll frame it in terms of

1390
00:37:54,769 --> 00:37:55,570
bacteria.

1391
00:37:58,190 --> 00:37:59,090
Yeah, but

1392
00:37:59,590 --> 00:38:01,699
I'll frame it in terms of

1393
00:38:01,699 --> 00:38:02,500
bacteria

1394
00:38:02,860 --> 00:38:03,699
are

1395
00:38:04,449 --> 00:38:05,570
bags of nutrients.

1396
00:38:06,090 --> 00:38:07,329
Bacteria are nutrient

1397
00:38:07,329 --> 00:38:08,869
transporters. They are nutrient

1398
00:38:08,869 --> 00:38:09,670
truckers.

1399
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,150
Bacteria are in the soil.

1400
00:38:12,369 --> 00:38:13,690
They extract minerals from the

1401
00:38:13,690 --> 00:38:14,530
soil mineral matrix.

1402
00:38:14,670 --> 00:38:15,769
They incorporate them into their

1403
00:38:15,769 --> 00:38:17,650
own cells. Then they migrate

1404
00:38:17,989 --> 00:38:21,090
into the mycorrhizal fungi and

1405
00:38:21,090 --> 00:38:22,929
mycelial network or directly

1406
00:38:22,929 --> 00:38:23,750
into plant roots.

1407
00:38:23,849 --> 00:38:24,929
They have the capacity to do

1408
00:38:24,929 --> 00:38:27,800
both. and they move rapidly

1409
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,039
through the mycorrhizal fungi

1410
00:38:30,039 --> 00:38:31,920
and mycelial network into the

1411
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,619
root system and then they move

1412
00:38:33,780 --> 00:38:35,769
up through the plant to wherever

1413
00:38:35,769 --> 00:38:36,769
the plant needs them.

1414
00:38:36,909 --> 00:38:38,590
They unload nutrients and they

1415
00:38:38,590 --> 00:38:39,969
can go back into the soil and do

1416
00:38:39,969 --> 00:38:41,489
the exact same thing over again.

1417
00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:43,010
They're like a dump truck that's

1418
00:38:43,010 --> 00:38:44,329
moving nutrients back and forth.

1419
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,639
Bacteria have the capacity to do

1420
00:38:46,639 --> 00:38:47,940
that. There is this very

1421
00:38:47,940 --> 00:38:49,039
different model of plant

1422
00:38:49,039 --> 00:38:49,840
nutrition.

1423
00:38:50,690 --> 00:38:52,429
based on the pioneering work of

1424
00:38:52,429 --> 00:38:53,409
Dr. James White and his

1425
00:38:53,409 --> 00:38:54,250
colleagues that they call the

1426
00:38:54,250 --> 00:38:55,150
Rhizophagy Cycle.

1427
00:38:56,219 --> 00:38:58,239
And there's been some other

1428
00:38:58,239 --> 00:38:59,539
interesting complementary work

1429
00:38:59,539 --> 00:39:00,340
to this as well.

1430
00:39:00,539 --> 00:39:01,900
But the short version is that

1431
00:39:02,219 --> 00:39:04,980
this model of biological

1432
00:39:04,980 --> 00:39:06,679
delivery of plant nutrients,

1433
00:39:07,059 --> 00:39:09,000
we are coming to understand can

1434
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,219
also deliver the large majority

1435
00:39:11,219 --> 00:39:12,599
of crop nutrients,

1436
00:39:13,269 --> 00:39:15,309
even in high yielding

1437
00:39:15,309 --> 00:39:16,829
agricultural environments.

1438
00:39:17,619 --> 00:39:18,639
So this model,

1439
00:39:19,579 --> 00:39:20,500
This model already,

1440
00:39:20,940 --> 00:39:21,740
like if you have an

1441
00:39:21,659 --> 00:39:23,360
undomesticated ecosystem, if you

1442
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,960
have wild forest soil,

1443
00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:29,519
the concentrations of soluble

1444
00:39:29,519 --> 00:39:32,019
nutrient ions in that type of

1445
00:39:32,019 --> 00:39:33,900
environment are very, very low.

1446
00:39:34,119 --> 00:39:35,579
Your levels of nitrates and

1447
00:39:35,579 --> 00:39:37,000
soluble potassium and

1448
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,079
phosphorous and so forth are

1449
00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:39,480
going to be very, very low.

1450
00:39:40,219 --> 00:39:42,420
So this process, this rhizophagy

1451
00:39:42,420 --> 00:39:43,400
cycle in

1452
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,179
that environment, in that

1453
00:39:45,179 --> 00:39:47,320
ecosystem delivers upwards of 90

1454
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,599
% of a plant's nutrient

1455
00:39:48,789 --> 00:39:50,329
requirements.

1456
00:39:51,579 --> 00:39:53,179
And one of the first questions

1457
00:39:53,179 --> 00:39:54,099
that I asked Dr.

1458
00:39:54,179 --> 00:39:55,099
White when I was discovering

1459
00:39:55,099 --> 00:39:56,139
this process was, well,

1460
00:39:56,679 --> 00:39:58,400
how does this transfer into an

1461
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:59,300
agricultural environment?

1462
00:39:59,380 --> 00:40:00,659
And to what degree can we

1463
00:40:00,659 --> 00:40:02,239
deliver a crop's nutritional

1464
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:03,800
requirements with this response?

1465
00:40:04,530 --> 00:40:05,690
At the time I asked that

1466
00:40:05,690 --> 00:40:06,889
question half a dozen years ago,

1467
00:40:06,909 --> 00:40:07,750
we didn't know the answer.

1468
00:40:07,849 --> 00:40:08,650
But now,

1469
00:40:09,050 --> 00:40:10,530
based on a lot of field

1470
00:40:10,530 --> 00:40:11,750
experience, it's obviously, it's

1471
00:40:11,750 --> 00:40:12,889
difficult to measure this and

1472
00:40:12,889 --> 00:40:13,769
prove this definitively.

1473
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:15,309
But you can look at the absence

1474
00:40:15,309 --> 00:40:17,030
of free soil ions in the soil

1475
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:17,830
solution.

1476
00:40:18,030 --> 00:40:19,489
And you can look at the quantity

1477
00:40:19,489 --> 00:40:20,829
of nutrients are being removed

1478
00:40:20,829 --> 00:40:21,630
by the crop,

1479
00:40:22,099 --> 00:40:24,000
and you can do some basic

1480
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,340
arithmetic,

1481
00:40:25,820 --> 00:40:28,420
and it's becoming apparent that

1482
00:40:28,820 --> 00:40:30,320
we can deliver the great

1483
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,260
majority of high -yielding

1484
00:40:32,260 --> 00:40:33,440
crop's nutritional requirements

1485
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,679
through this microbial feeding

1486
00:40:35,679 --> 00:40:36,480
process.

1487
00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:39,000
And when that happens,

1488
00:40:40,159 --> 00:40:42,880
these plants become very robust.

1489
00:40:43,059 --> 00:40:44,480
They have very robust immune

1490
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:45,519
systems because

1491
00:40:46,260 --> 00:40:47,940
I find this intriguing, you

1492
00:40:47,940 --> 00:40:48,760
know, when you start really

1493
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:49,560
studying

1494
00:40:49,679 --> 00:40:52,139
the plant and the plant

1495
00:40:52,139 --> 00:40:54,159
microbiome after a while, it

1496
00:40:54,159 --> 00:40:56,239
becomes difficult to tell where

1497
00:40:56,679 --> 00:40:57,980
the plant ends and the

1498
00:40:57,980 --> 00:40:59,039
microbiome begins.

1499
00:41:00,139 --> 00:41:02,280
We have all of these different

1500
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:03,760
compounds,

1501
00:41:04,469 --> 00:41:05,409
such as

1502
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:07,960
plant hormones, we call them

1503
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:08,960
phytohormones,

1504
00:41:09,750 --> 00:41:10,889
and we have these plant

1505
00:41:10,889 --> 00:41:12,269
secondary metabolites that we

1506
00:41:12,269 --> 00:41:13,610
call phytonutrients.

1507
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,559
Oh, but as time goes on, one by

1508
00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:19,320
one, we discover that

1509
00:41:20,269 --> 00:41:21,630
Perhaps, in fact,

1510
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:24,349
the biology is synthesizing the

1511
00:41:24,349 --> 00:41:25,530
majority of each of those

1512
00:41:25,530 --> 00:41:26,330
compounds.

1513
00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:28,300
Perhaps it's biology that's

1514
00:41:28,300 --> 00:41:29,659
synthesizing the majority of

1515
00:41:29,659 --> 00:41:31,659
phytonutrients and not just the

1516
00:41:31,849 --> 00:41:32,989
plants alone. Like we know,

1517
00:41:33,639 --> 00:41:35,440
we have this entire group of

1518
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:36,500
bacteria that

1519
00:41:36,809 --> 00:41:39,530
we call PGPRs, plant growth

1520
00:41:39,530 --> 00:41:41,070
-promoting rhizobacteria.

1521
00:41:41,210 --> 00:41:42,010
Why?

1522
00:41:42,090 --> 00:41:43,570
Because they synthesize

1523
00:41:43,570 --> 00:41:45,969
phytohormones such as cytokinins

1524
00:41:45,969 --> 00:41:47,369
and feed them to plants to

1525
00:41:47,369 --> 00:41:48,809
change the plant's behavior and

1526
00:41:48,809 --> 00:41:49,610
to change the plant's

1527
00:41:49,570 --> 00:41:50,370
expression.

1528
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:51,800
Yeah.

1529
00:41:53,389 --> 00:41:54,630
It is

1530
00:41:56,769 --> 00:41:57,650
the microbes that are

1531
00:41:57,650 --> 00:41:58,989
synthesizing them, not just the

1532
00:41:58,989 --> 00:41:59,789
plants alone.

1533
00:42:00,210 --> 00:42:01,750
You know, as you get these

1534
00:42:01,750 --> 00:42:03,349
microbes built into plants,

1535
00:42:03,980 --> 00:42:05,400
like you said, they're robust,

1536
00:42:06,059 --> 00:42:06,860
they're energetic,

1537
00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:10,019
they have just amazing health.

1538
00:42:10,519 --> 00:42:12,300
On this spectrum of vibrantly

1539
00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:14,059
healthy versus pre -disease

1540
00:42:14,059 --> 00:42:14,940
versus a disease,

1541
00:42:15,460 --> 00:42:16,840
they are now on the vibrantly

1542
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:17,960
healthy end of the spectrum.

1543
00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:18,920
And the reality is,

1544
00:42:19,340 --> 00:42:20,140
this

1545
00:42:20,489 --> 00:42:22,469
is difficult to convey to

1546
00:42:23,070 --> 00:42:24,989
people who've never observed it.

1547
00:42:25,050 --> 00:42:27,900
Most of us have never observed

1548
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:29,099
crops that were vibrantly

1549
00:42:29,099 --> 00:42:30,280
healthy. I mean, my goodness,

1550
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,679
most of us have never observed

1551
00:42:31,679 --> 00:42:33,019
crops that were resistant to

1552
00:42:33,019 --> 00:42:33,980
disease. They weren't even in

1553
00:42:33,980 --> 00:42:34,900
the pre -disease state.

1554
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:36,780
Most of us have never observed

1555
00:42:36,780 --> 00:42:38,139
crops that were truly resistant

1556
00:42:38,139 --> 00:42:39,179
to diseases and insects.

1557
00:42:39,789 --> 00:42:40,789
And I hate to say it, some

1558
00:42:40,789 --> 00:42:42,130
farmers at the end of the day,

1559
00:42:43,070 --> 00:42:44,510
they aren't even observant of

1560
00:42:44,510 --> 00:42:45,409
any of their crops.

1561
00:42:46,179 --> 00:42:47,280
And that's when disease and

1562
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,300
those things take over.

1563
00:42:49,570 --> 00:42:50,610
Some of them, you know?

1564
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:52,530
What do you think about that?

1565
00:42:53,860 --> 00:42:55,159
Well, there's this Chinese

1566
00:42:55,159 --> 00:42:55,960
proverb,

1567
00:42:56,260 --> 00:42:57,500
something to the effect of,

1568
00:42:58,219 --> 00:42:59,760
the best fertilizer is the

1569
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:00,560
farmer's footsteps.

1570
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:01,800
Sure.

1571
00:43:01,679 --> 00:43:03,780
And I think us being in the

1572
00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:05,360
field and being observant, I

1573
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,239
don't work with many farmers who

1574
00:43:08,730 --> 00:43:09,730
aren't out in their fields.

1575
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:10,670
I mean the people that we work

1576
00:43:10,670 --> 00:43:11,550
with are out there, they're

1577
00:43:11,550 --> 00:43:12,350
paying attention.

1578
00:43:12,829 --> 00:43:15,070
So I don't have the experience

1579
00:43:15,070 --> 00:43:16,829
of the comment that you made,

1580
00:43:16,929 --> 00:43:19,690
but the reality is it is our

1581
00:43:19,690 --> 00:43:21,409
presence and our observation in

1582
00:43:21,409 --> 00:43:23,010
the field that is fundamental to

1583
00:43:23,010 --> 00:43:24,769
determining our or to

1584
00:43:24,769 --> 00:43:25,869
influencing our degree of

1585
00:43:25,869 --> 00:43:27,409
success in whatever path or

1586
00:43:27,409 --> 00:43:28,429
direction we're going down.

1587
00:43:29,380 --> 00:43:31,199
It's our care and intention and

1588
00:43:31,199 --> 00:43:32,239
stewardship that matters.

1589
00:43:32,500 --> 00:43:33,300
Absolutely.

1590
00:43:33,139 --> 00:43:34,300
And that's going to take it into

1591
00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:35,179
the long, long term.

1592
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:36,920
Let's walk into the next part of

1593
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:38,079
this, the valley of death.

1594
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:39,780
Let's think about this.

1595
00:43:40,219 --> 00:43:42,039
Many growers fear a yield drag

1596
00:43:42,039 --> 00:43:43,619
when moving over, right, to a

1597
00:43:43,619 --> 00:43:44,820
regenerative practice, John.

1598
00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:47,389
We all know, you know, when we

1599
00:43:47,389 --> 00:43:48,389
talked about this a little bit

1600
00:43:48,389 --> 00:43:49,969
before, but if you would explain

1601
00:43:49,969 --> 00:43:51,710
how to navigate the first one to

1602
00:43:51,710 --> 00:43:52,769
three years of transition.

1603
00:43:53,230 --> 00:43:54,590
If you could lay that out, I

1604
00:43:54,590 --> 00:43:55,670
think that's the most important

1605
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:56,909
part, John, because I think

1606
00:43:56,909 --> 00:43:58,050
that's what's holding some of

1607
00:43:58,050 --> 00:43:58,850
these guys back.

1608
00:44:00,559 --> 00:44:04,019
The art and the science of

1609
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:06,809
regenerative agronomy that

1610
00:44:06,809 --> 00:44:09,329
delivers an immediate ROI...

1611
00:44:10,519 --> 00:44:11,320
figuring

1612
00:44:11,889 --> 00:44:13,929
out how to navigate

1613
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,800
providing an on -ramp for

1614
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,059
biology and

1615
00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:20,219
biological nutrition while

1616
00:44:20,219 --> 00:44:22,119
simultaneously providing an off

1617
00:44:22,119 --> 00:44:24,139
-ramp for electrolyte nutrition.

1618
00:44:24,869 --> 00:44:25,969
That's it. That's the

1619
00:44:25,969 --> 00:44:27,429
fundamental bottom line is

1620
00:44:27,429 --> 00:44:29,070
figuring out how you balance

1621
00:44:29,070 --> 00:44:30,070
those two pieces

1622
00:44:30,730 --> 00:44:31,530
and

1623
00:44:31,909 --> 00:44:33,670
I'll frame it in terms of

1624
00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:35,230
nitrogen management on a corn

1625
00:44:35,230 --> 00:44:36,949
crop because that's a common

1626
00:44:36,949 --> 00:44:38,650
crop and a common scenario that

1627
00:44:38,650 --> 00:44:39,710
people can easily relate to.

1628
00:44:39,789 --> 00:44:41,150
You can adapt the information to

1629
00:44:41,150 --> 00:44:42,409
all types of other contexts.

1630
00:44:43,070 --> 00:44:43,870
Perfect.

1631
00:44:43,590 --> 00:44:44,390
So

1632
00:44:44,460 --> 00:44:45,880
traditional

1633
00:44:46,900 --> 00:44:47,700
nitrogen management.

1634
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,219
Let's just say for the sake of

1635
00:44:49,219 --> 00:44:51,460
discussion that in a particular

1636
00:44:51,460 --> 00:44:54,219
given region, soil type, crop,

1637
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:55,659
rainfall patterns and so forth

1638
00:44:55,659 --> 00:44:57,280
that it's common to apply 200

1639
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:58,579
units of nitrogen to

1640
00:44:58,900 --> 00:45:00,159
a corn crop, the majority of

1641
00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:01,059
that being pre -plant.

1642
00:45:01,690 --> 00:45:03,070
Perhaps it's fall applied,

1643
00:45:03,230 --> 00:45:04,289
perhaps it's spring applied, but

1644
00:45:04,289 --> 00:45:05,349
it's all applied either at

1645
00:45:05,349 --> 00:45:06,409
planting or before planting.

1646
00:45:07,659 --> 00:45:08,460
That

1647
00:45:09,050 --> 00:45:09,850
type of environment,

1648
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,579
you've shut down any opportunity

1649
00:45:12,579 --> 00:45:15,510
for microbial collaboration with

1650
00:45:15,510 --> 00:45:16,909
that plant because you have this

1651
00:45:17,250 --> 00:45:20,090
abundance of free nutrients and

1652
00:45:20,090 --> 00:45:21,090
free electrolytes in the soil

1653
00:45:21,090 --> 00:45:21,890
solution.

1654
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:24,769
So the way to manage that

1655
00:45:24,769 --> 00:45:26,590
and to produce a different

1656
00:45:26,590 --> 00:45:28,269
response is to time the

1657
00:45:28,269 --> 00:45:29,710
applications differently and to

1658
00:45:29,710 --> 00:45:31,409
change the amounts to only match

1659
00:45:31,409 --> 00:45:33,250
peak crop needs.

1660
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:35,670
and peak crop demand when the

1661
00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:36,550
crop actually needs it.

1662
00:45:36,610 --> 00:45:38,570
So, we change the applications

1663
00:45:38,570 --> 00:45:40,309
in time and we change them in

1664
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:41,110
efficiency.

1665
00:45:41,769 --> 00:45:43,289
So, here's an example.

1666
00:45:43,809 --> 00:45:45,130
Actually, I'll add one more

1667
00:45:45,130 --> 00:45:46,550
thought, one more frame of

1668
00:45:46,550 --> 00:45:47,510
reference and that is

1669
00:45:47,980 --> 00:45:50,820
depending on who you listen to,

1670
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,039
which university, which part of

1671
00:45:52,039 --> 00:45:53,179
the country, the

1672
00:45:53,590 --> 00:45:55,730
nitrogen requirement to grow a

1673
00:45:55,730 --> 00:45:56,989
bushel of corn is anywhere from

1674
00:45:56,989 --> 00:45:59,409
1 to 1 .3 pounds per bushel of

1675
00:45:59,409 --> 00:46:00,210
corn.

1676
00:46:00,670 --> 00:46:02,489
And yet, there are many

1677
00:46:02,489 --> 00:46:03,530
biological farmers

1678
00:46:04,460 --> 00:46:06,619
are using cover crops or perhaps

1679
00:46:06,619 --> 00:46:07,699
they're using manure compost

1680
00:46:07,699 --> 00:46:08,559
applications. They're

1681
00:46:08,559 --> 00:46:09,360
experimenting with different

1682
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:10,120
things.

1683
00:46:09,980 --> 00:46:12,039
It's very common to get to

1684
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,199
only be able to account for 0

1685
00:46:15,199 --> 00:46:17,239
.65 to 0 .75 pounds of nitrogen

1686
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:18,039
per bushel of corn.

1687
00:46:18,639 --> 00:46:20,860
And there are many growers who

1688
00:46:20,860 --> 00:46:21,820
are pushing that envelope even

1689
00:46:21,820 --> 00:46:22,800
further and they're still

1690
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,360
producing average to better than

1691
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:26,579
regional average yields with

1692
00:46:26,579 --> 00:46:28,579
only a half a pound of nitrogen

1693
00:46:28,579 --> 00:46:29,960
per bushel of corn that they can

1694
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:30,760
account for.

1695
00:46:31,230 --> 00:46:32,670
So there might be some coming

1696
00:46:32,670 --> 00:46:33,710
from biological nutrition that

1697
00:46:33,710 --> 00:46:34,630
they're not accounting for, but

1698
00:46:34,630 --> 00:46:35,769
that's what they can account for

1699
00:46:35,769 --> 00:46:36,570
in the system.

1700
00:46:37,449 --> 00:46:38,250
So

1701
00:46:38,110 --> 00:46:39,429
the

1702
00:46:40,739 --> 00:46:43,199
way that I'll just give an

1703
00:46:43,199 --> 00:46:44,780
example of a type of

1704
00:46:44,780 --> 00:46:46,239
recommendation that we would

1705
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:47,940
make in our consulting at AEA

1706
00:46:48,090 --> 00:46:49,469
when I'm running completely

1707
00:46:49,469 --> 00:46:50,829
blind. I know nothing.

1708
00:46:50,929 --> 00:46:52,610
I know nothing about the soil

1709
00:46:52,610 --> 00:46:54,329
context, the crop context, the

1710
00:46:54,329 --> 00:46:55,210
history, the irrigation.

1711
00:46:55,409 --> 00:46:56,210
I'm just,

1712
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:57,590
I'm just, this is, this is a

1713
00:46:57,590 --> 00:46:58,409
starting point.

1714
00:46:58,690 --> 00:46:59,829
This is a template and a

1715
00:46:59,829 --> 00:47:01,130
starting point from which to

1716
00:47:01,130 --> 00:47:02,730
adapt. Yeah, absolutely.

1717
00:47:04,090 --> 00:47:07,079
I would start with 40 units of

1718
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:07,880
nitrogen

1719
00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:10,980
maximum at planting in the form

1720
00:47:10,980 --> 00:47:12,860
of ammonium and nitrate, no urea

1721
00:47:12,860 --> 00:47:13,660
or

1722
00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:14,809
limited urea, I shouldn't say no

1723
00:47:14,809 --> 00:47:16,610
urea, but I don't want 100 % of

1724
00:47:16,610 --> 00:47:17,410
it urea.

1725
00:47:17,630 --> 00:47:18,630
And I'm making that caveat

1726
00:47:18,630 --> 00:47:19,949
because everything else for the

1727
00:47:19,949 --> 00:47:21,170
rest of the season, I want as

1728
00:47:21,170 --> 00:47:21,970
urea.

1729
00:47:23,380 --> 00:47:24,239
And so

1730
00:47:24,969 --> 00:47:26,210
there's some reasons for that.

1731
00:47:26,269 --> 00:47:27,610
I won't go into the detail in

1732
00:47:27,610 --> 00:47:28,789
the time that we have here, but

1733
00:47:28,789 --> 00:47:31,989
then I want to add and

1734
00:47:32,139 --> 00:47:33,750
that nitrogen,

1735
00:47:35,159 --> 00:47:36,699
is ideally applied at planting

1736
00:47:36,699 --> 00:47:37,559
or before planting.

1737
00:47:38,099 --> 00:47:40,239
And I want it off to the side of

1738
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:41,480
the seed, not in the furrow.

1739
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:43,280
Preferably it can be strip

1740
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:44,659
tilled, it can be in a two by, I

1741
00:47:44,659 --> 00:47:45,820
don't want it any closer than a

1742
00:47:45,820 --> 00:47:47,039
two by two. I would prefer it

1743
00:47:47,039 --> 00:47:48,239
even be farther away than a two

1744
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:49,739
by two, but that's the closest I

1745
00:47:49,739 --> 00:47:50,539
want it to be.

1746
00:47:51,170 --> 00:47:51,970
And I

1747
00:47:52,650 --> 00:47:54,389
want that, we've, we've put

1748
00:47:54,389 --> 00:47:55,369
together what we call a nitrogen

1749
00:47:55,369 --> 00:47:56,329
efficiency program.

1750
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:57,710
People can find it online.

1751
00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,280
But the short version is we

1752
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:00,080
combine that

1753
00:48:00,409 --> 00:48:02,719
with sulfate

1754
00:48:03,219 --> 00:48:04,400
in some form, either ammonium

1755
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,139
sulfate or thiosulfate, whatever

1756
00:48:06,139 --> 00:48:07,440
makes sense for the given

1757
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:08,240
application.

1758
00:48:08,559 --> 00:48:11,099
We want a minimum of a 10 to 1

1759
00:48:11,099 --> 00:48:12,280
nitrogen to sulfur ratio.

1760
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:14,320
And then we also add, to make

1761
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:15,120
substances,

1762
00:48:15,099 --> 00:48:16,440
a humicarb at 3 % of the

1763
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,000
solution, and we add rebound

1764
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:19,300
molybdenum at a pint per acre.

1765
00:48:19,889 --> 00:48:21,289
And the reason for those things

1766
00:48:21,289 --> 00:48:23,789
is it drives and accelerates the

1767
00:48:23,789 --> 00:48:25,690
conversion of the applied

1768
00:48:25,690 --> 00:48:27,210
nitrogen into microbial

1769
00:48:27,210 --> 00:48:28,989
nitrogen. So bacterial cells are

1770
00:48:28,989 --> 00:48:29,789
now holding it.

1771
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,099
And that means that it is

1772
00:48:32,099 --> 00:48:32,900
available,

1773
00:48:32,900 --> 00:48:34,079
but no longer water soluble.

1774
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:35,080
It doesn't leach.

1775
00:48:36,059 --> 00:48:37,639
And so we're putting on a

1776
00:48:37,639 --> 00:48:38,460
smaller dose.

1777
00:48:39,860 --> 00:48:41,400
And my preference would be to

1778
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:42,880
put on less than 40 pounds.

1779
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,239
I would like to go down to as

1780
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,099
little as 10 to 20, but I'm not

1781
00:48:47,099 --> 00:48:47,980
comfortable making that

1782
00:48:47,980 --> 00:48:49,159
recommendation without more

1783
00:48:49,159 --> 00:48:50,559
information and knowing what the

1784
00:48:50,559 --> 00:48:51,780
history is and where the soil is

1785
00:48:51,780 --> 00:48:52,580
coming from.

1786
00:48:52,659 --> 00:48:53,460
That's perfect.

1787
00:48:53,219 --> 00:48:54,019
Then the

1788
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,260
second application would be

1789
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,039
somewhere between V3 and V5,

1790
00:48:59,119 --> 00:49:00,539
depending on soil context and

1791
00:49:00,539 --> 00:49:01,340
continuity,

1792
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:03,809
an additional 40 pounds,

1793
00:49:04,769 --> 00:49:07,050
side dressed, vertigated, top

1794
00:49:07,050 --> 00:49:08,349
dressed, whatever fits the

1795
00:49:08,349 --> 00:49:09,889
application or the farming

1796
00:49:09,889 --> 00:49:10,989
context. And

1797
00:49:13,050 --> 00:49:15,230
This 40 pounds is again combined

1798
00:49:15,230 --> 00:49:16,489
with our nitrogen efficiency

1799
00:49:16,489 --> 00:49:17,289
program.

1800
00:49:17,449 --> 00:49:19,650
And I want a minimum in these

1801
00:49:19,650 --> 00:49:20,829
two applications, I want a

1802
00:49:20,829 --> 00:49:22,289
minimum of 25 pounds of sulfur

1803
00:49:22,289 --> 00:49:23,090
per acre.

1804
00:49:23,699 --> 00:49:25,360
And we can, we know that we can,

1805
00:49:25,670 --> 00:49:28,309
we can count the first 25 pounds

1806
00:49:28,309 --> 00:49:30,070
of sulfur, you can count as the

1807
00:49:30,070 --> 00:49:31,309
equivalent of a nitrogen unit in

1808
00:49:31,309 --> 00:49:32,570
terms of the crop response that

1809
00:49:32,570 --> 00:49:33,370
they get.

1810
00:49:34,010 --> 00:49:36,369
So then we've now applied a

1811
00:49:36,369 --> 00:49:37,250
total of 80 pounds.

1812
00:49:37,429 --> 00:49:39,519
And then I want to come back and

1813
00:49:39,519 --> 00:49:41,280
plan for two foliar

1814
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:42,080
applications.

1815
00:49:44,019 --> 00:49:46,519
And this is different from what

1816
00:49:46,519 --> 00:49:47,599
lots of farms have been doing

1817
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:49,099
historically and extremely

1818
00:49:49,099 --> 00:49:49,900
valuable.

1819
00:49:50,110 --> 00:49:51,030
So I want two foliar

1820
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:52,190
applications, the first one

1821
00:49:52,190 --> 00:49:53,409
around tasseling and the first

1822
00:49:53,409 --> 00:49:54,269
one around R1.

1823
00:49:57,519 --> 00:49:59,159
Those two foliar applications

1824
00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:01,539
will each be 10 units of

1825
00:50:01,539 --> 00:50:02,340
nitrogen

1826
00:50:02,570 --> 00:50:04,289
as melted urea,

1827
00:50:04,690 --> 00:50:06,730
as low biuret urea.

1828
00:50:08,300 --> 00:50:11,179
There's been a number of farmers

1829
00:50:11,179 --> 00:50:12,320
that we've worked with, people

1830
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:13,400
who've done interesting work,

1831
00:50:14,179 --> 00:50:15,780
documented their research quite

1832
00:50:15,780 --> 00:50:16,580
well.

1833
00:50:16,929 --> 00:50:19,590
Our rule of thumb is that at

1834
00:50:19,590 --> 00:50:21,690
minimum, most conservatively,

1835
00:50:21,949 --> 00:50:25,150
every pound of nitrogen that is

1836
00:50:25,150 --> 00:50:26,070
applied as a foliar,

1837
00:50:26,699 --> 00:50:28,059
and in terms of foliar urea,

1838
00:50:28,610 --> 00:50:30,269
will produce the same crop yield

1839
00:50:30,269 --> 00:50:31,909
response as four pounds of

1840
00:50:31,909 --> 00:50:33,070
nitrogen applied to the soil.

1841
00:50:34,199 --> 00:50:35,820
At best, that's the most

1842
00:50:35,820 --> 00:50:36,940
conservative. We've even had

1843
00:50:36,940 --> 00:50:38,159
some crops go all the way up to

1844
00:50:38,159 --> 00:50:39,380
one to seven ratio.

1845
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,119
So now we're

1846
00:50:42,659 --> 00:50:44,079
doing these two applications and

1847
00:50:44,079 --> 00:50:45,880
ideally we also like to add some

1848
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:46,760
of this nitrogen efficiency

1849
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,460
program to these foliars as

1850
00:50:48,460 --> 00:50:49,260
well.

1851
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:50,130
So now you think about what I

1852
00:50:50,130 --> 00:50:50,930
just described.

1853
00:50:51,010 --> 00:50:52,630
We did 40 units of N,

1854
00:50:53,070 --> 00:50:54,889
40 units of N, 10 and 10.

1855
00:50:54,969 --> 00:50:56,309
We've got 100 units of N and 25

1856
00:50:56,309 --> 00:50:57,110
pounds of sulfur.

1857
00:50:57,869 --> 00:50:58,849
With that application,

1858
00:50:59,349 --> 00:51:00,949
you will get a greater crop

1859
00:51:00,949 --> 00:51:03,110
yield and higher quality than

1860
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,059
you will with 200 pounds of

1861
00:51:05,059 --> 00:51:06,059
nitrogen applied up front.

1862
00:51:07,750 --> 00:51:09,889
And your costs, if you figure in

1863
00:51:09,889 --> 00:51:11,309
the application costs

1864
00:51:11,679 --> 00:51:13,519
and for additional further

1865
00:51:13,519 --> 00:51:14,679
applications, you figure in the

1866
00:51:14,679 --> 00:51:15,639
nitrogen efficiency program,

1867
00:51:16,139 --> 00:51:17,579
your cost per acre is going to

1868
00:51:17,579 --> 00:51:18,719
be roughly a wash.

1869
00:51:19,110 --> 00:51:20,389
but you've applied half the

1870
00:51:20,389 --> 00:51:21,190
quantity of N.

1871
00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:23,159
Now that's the first half of the

1872
00:51:23,159 --> 00:51:24,659
coin. You now have an off -ramp

1873
00:51:24,659 --> 00:51:25,460
for nutrition,

1874
00:51:26,070 --> 00:51:26,969
for electrolyte nutrition.

1875
00:51:27,130 --> 00:51:28,869
Now the next step is the on

1876
00:51:28,869 --> 00:51:29,670
-ramp for biology.

1877
00:51:29,869 --> 00:51:31,630
Now you add BioCoat Gold as a

1878
00:51:31,630 --> 00:51:32,430
seed treatment.

1879
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:33,820
Perhaps you add

1880
00:51:34,420 --> 00:51:36,059
another microbial inoculant in

1881
00:51:36,059 --> 00:51:37,039
the furrow with your starter.

1882
00:51:37,809 --> 00:51:40,030
And that is the on -ramp for

1883
00:51:40,030 --> 00:51:40,989
biology piece.

1884
00:51:41,559 --> 00:51:43,380
And then you do that year one.

1885
00:51:43,699 --> 00:51:45,500
Year two, you come back based on

1886
00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:46,559
what you've learned and you

1887
00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:48,239
adapt. Instead of 40 units of N,

1888
00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:49,400
maybe you're now down to 10

1889
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:50,200
units of N in the furrow.

1890
00:51:50,429 --> 00:51:52,050
and 30 units side risk.

1891
00:51:52,150 --> 00:51:53,409
But usually like if you're going

1892
00:51:53,409 --> 00:51:54,449
to hone something in.

1893
00:51:55,039 --> 00:51:56,320
you're going to be taking soil

1894
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:57,760
samples, you know, throughout

1895
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:58,560
this.

1896
00:51:58,619 --> 00:51:59,800
What I'm what I'm giving you is

1897
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:00,880
a template starting point.

1898
00:52:01,179 --> 00:52:02,139
All of these starting point

1899
00:52:02,139 --> 00:52:03,639
recommendations would be revised

1900
00:52:03,639 --> 00:52:04,980
and adapted based on SAP

1901
00:52:04,980 --> 00:52:06,139
analysis or soil analysis

1902
00:52:06,139 --> 00:52:06,960
results. Absolutely.

1903
00:52:07,380 --> 00:52:08,180
Perfect.

1904
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:08,800
All right, let's hear it.

1905
00:52:08,860 --> 00:52:10,039
So keep on going, buddy.

1906
00:52:10,139 --> 00:52:11,719
So we're on year two now.

1907
00:52:11,980 --> 00:52:13,539
So year two, you're looking at

1908
00:52:13,539 --> 00:52:15,199
further reducing usually.

1909
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:16,860
OK, again, there's context

1910
00:52:16,860 --> 00:52:18,019
dependent, but usually you're

1911
00:52:18,019 --> 00:52:19,219
looking at further reducing the

1912
00:52:19,219 --> 00:52:20,300
nitrogen applications at

1913
00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:22,800
planting and perhaps

1914
00:52:23,500 --> 00:52:24,800
putting more in the side dress.

1915
00:52:24,820 --> 00:52:25,620
And it's actually

1916
00:52:26,110 --> 00:52:28,090
Getting the nitrogen number as

1917
00:52:28,250 --> 00:52:29,989
low as possible at planting is

1918
00:52:29,989 --> 00:52:30,969
actually quite important.

1919
00:52:31,650 --> 00:52:33,829
We don't want it at zero in most

1920
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:36,869
cases. We want a touch of

1921
00:52:36,869 --> 00:52:38,570
nitrate because nitrate really

1922
00:52:38,570 --> 00:52:41,929
drives the synthesis of a

1923
00:52:41,929 --> 00:52:43,690
whole range of different plant

1924
00:52:43,690 --> 00:52:45,489
phytohormones, the cytokinins,

1925
00:52:45,610 --> 00:52:47,010
the gibberellins, the auxins,

1926
00:52:47,130 --> 00:52:47,930
etc.

1927
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,239
If we want to develop this large

1928
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,119
root system and plant biomass

1929
00:52:52,119 --> 00:52:54,119
very quickly, we want a small

1930
00:52:54,119 --> 00:52:55,119
dose of nitrates.

1931
00:52:55,380 --> 00:52:56,800
The key word being small.

1932
00:52:57,980 --> 00:52:59,800
You can do this with two pounds

1933
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:00,659
of nitrates per acre.

1934
00:53:00,820 --> 00:53:01,760
It doesn't take much.

1935
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:05,760
If

1936
00:53:05,630 --> 00:53:08,309
you

1937
00:53:09,010 --> 00:53:11,409
keep nitrogen levels low in

1938
00:53:11,409 --> 00:53:12,869
those first couple of weeks

1939
00:53:12,869 --> 00:53:13,690
after germination,

1940
00:53:14,949 --> 00:53:17,070
you develop not zero, small

1941
00:53:17,070 --> 00:53:18,469
amounts of nitrates, but not an

1942
00:53:18,469 --> 00:53:19,809
overabundance of nitrogen.

1943
00:53:20,670 --> 00:53:22,550
the biology will drive the

1944
00:53:22,550 --> 00:53:24,750
development of this extensive,

1945
00:53:25,329 --> 00:53:26,750
robust root system.

1946
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:29,320
And you get this large root

1947
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:30,980
biomass and you get very good

1948
00:53:30,980 --> 00:53:32,199
microbial colonization.

1949
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:34,039
And now the plant has

1950
00:53:34,039 --> 00:53:36,340
established that community.

1951
00:53:36,900 --> 00:53:39,079
It hasn't been, you haven't

1952
00:53:39,079 --> 00:53:41,059
created a drug dependency for

1953
00:53:41,059 --> 00:53:41,920
the rest of its life.

1954
00:53:42,889 --> 00:53:43,949
You've set it up.

1955
00:53:44,469 --> 00:53:46,309
It's like baby animal receiving

1956
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:47,349
colostrum.

1957
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:49,449
You've set it up where you have

1958
00:53:49,449 --> 00:53:50,570
this microbial knock on it.

1959
00:53:50,650 --> 00:53:53,130
It's now set up for success with

1960
00:53:53,340 --> 00:53:55,780
this microbiome for the rest of

1961
00:53:55,780 --> 00:53:56,580
its life.

1962
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:57,960
And this is why I would actually

1963
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,820
prefer to have smaller amounts

1964
00:53:59,820 --> 00:54:01,280
of nitrogen at planting and

1965
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:02,559
larger amounts in the side dress

1966
00:54:02,559 --> 00:54:04,099
because it gives us that initial

1967
00:54:04,349 --> 00:54:06,610
critical several week window to

1968
00:54:06,610 --> 00:54:08,309
set up the microbiome so that we

1969
00:54:08,789 --> 00:54:10,469
have an opportunity for greater

1970
00:54:10,469 --> 00:54:11,550
success for the rest of the

1971
00:54:11,550 --> 00:54:12,350
season.

1972
00:54:12,210 --> 00:54:13,289
Yeah. What about year three?

1973
00:54:13,409 --> 00:54:15,190
Do you have one more step or is

1974
00:54:15,190 --> 00:54:15,990
that it?

1975
00:54:16,190 --> 00:54:17,130
And then you're pretty well on

1976
00:54:17,130 --> 00:54:18,389
your, you're pretty well on your

1977
00:54:18,389 --> 00:54:19,409
way at that point, John.

1978
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:21,639
At this point, you're well on

1979
00:54:21,639 --> 00:54:23,679
your way, but also we

1980
00:54:24,119 --> 00:54:25,619
make all these decisions going

1981
00:54:25,619 --> 00:54:26,739
forward based on data.

1982
00:54:26,860 --> 00:54:27,960
That's great. Like what does the

1983
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:29,619
data tell us? How, how much can

1984
00:54:29,619 --> 00:54:30,800
we reduce? How much can we

1985
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:31,600
reduce further?

1986
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:32,679
Like what else is in the system?

1987
00:54:32,739 --> 00:54:33,800
Or is there nitrogen coming from

1988
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:34,619
cover crops? There's,

1989
00:54:35,159 --> 00:54:36,260
there's lots of variables in

1990
00:54:36,260 --> 00:54:38,559
this, but you make, you just,

1991
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:40,099
You don't guess.

1992
00:54:40,340 --> 00:54:41,940
I think that's been one of the

1993
00:54:41,940 --> 00:54:43,260
foundational aspects of our

1994
00:54:43,260 --> 00:54:44,579
success in our consulting work

1995
00:54:44,579 --> 00:54:46,480
at AEA is you do not guess about

1996
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:47,539
something that is possible to

1997
00:54:47,539 --> 00:54:48,340
measure.

1998
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:49,940
It is possible to measure a

1999
00:54:49,940 --> 00:54:51,099
soil's ability to contribute

2000
00:54:51,099 --> 00:54:51,900
nitrogen.

2001
00:54:51,940 --> 00:54:53,340
It's possible to measure a

2002
00:54:53,340 --> 00:54:54,500
crop's nitrogen status.

2003
00:54:54,980 --> 00:54:56,400
And so you don't guess.

2004
00:54:56,739 --> 00:54:58,139
And it's because of that.

2005
00:54:59,210 --> 00:55:01,570
You started this question by

2006
00:55:01,570 --> 00:55:02,530
asking me about the Valley of

2007
00:55:02,530 --> 00:55:03,330
Death.

2008
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:05,500
I'm of the persuasion, there is

2009
00:55:05,500 --> 00:55:07,019
this narrative that

2010
00:55:08,300 --> 00:55:10,440
You should expect to see yield

2011
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,260
losses and yield drag the first

2012
00:55:12,260 --> 00:55:13,239
couple of years during a

2013
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:14,059
regenerative agriculture

2014
00:55:14,059 --> 00:55:14,860
transition.

2015
00:55:16,820 --> 00:55:18,679
I vehemently disagree.

2016
00:55:19,409 --> 00:55:20,210
If you do,

2017
00:55:21,159 --> 00:55:22,920
it is not the result of

2018
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:23,800
regenerative agriculture.

2019
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:25,480
It's the result of poor

2020
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,079
agronomic management decisions.

2021
00:55:27,659 --> 00:55:28,460
I'd

2022
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:30,119
have to agree 100 % with you on

2023
00:55:30,119 --> 00:55:31,440
that. Might take some time to

2024
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:32,579
set up the entire system.

2025
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:34,239
But the bottom line is the ROI

2026
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:35,280
is going to be back in your

2027
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:36,080
pocket. You're going to be

2028
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:37,460
making more money as a producer.

2029
00:55:38,500 --> 00:55:39,340
And that's really where the

2030
00:55:39,340 --> 00:55:40,140
money should be going.

2031
00:55:40,070 --> 00:55:40,870
If you ask me,

2032
00:55:41,150 --> 00:55:42,349
you know, at the end of the day,

2033
00:55:43,460 --> 00:55:44,860
to farmers, to producers, to

2034
00:55:44,860 --> 00:55:45,660
ranchers,

2035
00:55:46,690 --> 00:55:48,110
the ROI starts going back in the

2036
00:55:48,110 --> 00:55:49,050
right person's pocket.

2037
00:55:49,250 --> 00:55:50,050
Well,

2038
00:55:50,010 --> 00:55:50,929
when you think about all the

2039
00:55:50,929 --> 00:55:51,949
less money that you're spending

2040
00:55:51,949 --> 00:55:52,750
on nitrogen,

2041
00:55:53,570 --> 00:55:55,610
spending on nutrients now in the

2042
00:55:55,610 --> 00:55:56,489
first couple of years,

2043
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:58,200
we

2044
00:56:00,210 --> 00:56:01,969
every every farm in every

2045
00:56:01,969 --> 00:56:03,070
context is unique.

2046
00:56:04,530 --> 00:56:06,309
But in the first couple of

2047
00:56:06,309 --> 00:56:08,570
years, we often don't expect to

2048
00:56:08,570 --> 00:56:09,370
see

2049
00:56:09,679 --> 00:56:12,179
inputs go down significantly.

2050
00:56:12,420 --> 00:56:13,360
They just go to different

2051
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:14,619
places. They're going to cover

2052
00:56:14,619 --> 00:56:15,940
crop seed or they're going to

2053
00:56:15,940 --> 00:56:17,139
microbial inoculants or they're

2054
00:56:17,139 --> 00:56:18,900
going to more sulfur and less

2055
00:56:18,900 --> 00:56:19,960
nitrogen. They're going to the

2056
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:20,800
nitrogen efficiency program.

2057
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:21,680
They're going in different

2058
00:56:21,619 --> 00:56:22,420
places.

2059
00:56:23,699 --> 00:56:24,920
But also we

2060
00:56:25,679 --> 00:56:27,000
do not expect to see yields go

2061
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:27,800
down.

2062
00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:30,639
We expect pesticide applications

2063
00:56:30,639 --> 00:56:31,719
to go down and

2064
00:56:32,159 --> 00:56:33,619
we expect profitability to go

2065
00:56:33,619 --> 00:56:34,420
up.

2066
00:56:34,889 --> 00:56:35,690
So

2067
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,019
that often that increased

2068
00:56:37,019 --> 00:56:38,619
profitability comes from

2069
00:56:38,619 --> 00:56:40,840
incremental yield advantages and

2070
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:42,460
it comes from reduced pesticide

2071
00:56:42,460 --> 00:56:43,260
requirements.

2072
00:56:43,570 --> 00:56:45,849
and then over time it comes from

2073
00:56:45,849 --> 00:56:46,849
reduced inputs.

2074
00:56:47,519 --> 00:56:49,500
We don't, we don't, we're not,

2075
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:51,219
I'm not particularly aligned

2076
00:56:51,219 --> 00:56:52,019
with

2077
00:56:52,010 --> 00:56:53,630
low inputs year one.

2078
00:56:55,110 --> 00:56:55,910
Reducing,

2079
00:56:56,250 --> 00:56:57,050
look,

2080
00:56:57,510 --> 00:56:59,329
there is no other industry,

2081
00:56:59,849 --> 00:57:01,469
there is no other place outside

2082
00:57:01,469 --> 00:57:02,829
of agriculture and region of

2083
00:57:02,829 --> 00:57:04,349
agriculture where you have this

2084
00:57:04,349 --> 00:57:06,170
idea that you can save yourself

2085
00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:06,970
successful.

2086
00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:09,670
Don't save yourself successful.

2087
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,079
It's in how do you make the

2088
00:57:12,079 --> 00:57:14,099
smart and wise investments.

2089
00:57:15,139 --> 00:57:16,480
particularly in a transition

2090
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:17,280
period.

2091
00:57:18,380 --> 00:57:19,360
And that's what all those are

2092
00:57:19,579 --> 00:57:20,500
cover crops,

2093
00:57:21,260 --> 00:57:22,500
biological inoculants.

2094
00:57:22,599 --> 00:57:23,820
It's all an investment at the

2095
00:57:23,820 --> 00:57:24,620
end of the day.

2096
00:57:24,659 --> 00:57:25,619
These aren't things that are

2097
00:57:25,619 --> 00:57:26,739
going to be here this year and

2098
00:57:26,739 --> 00:57:27,539
then gone next.

2099
00:57:28,269 --> 00:57:29,070
You know,

2100
00:57:28,989 --> 00:57:30,190
I mean, when it comes down to

2101
00:57:30,190 --> 00:57:31,250
it, and you start to put inputs

2102
00:57:31,250 --> 00:57:32,050
onto a farm,

2103
00:57:32,469 --> 00:57:33,530
and that's one of the things we

2104
00:57:33,530 --> 00:57:34,909
talked to, you know, you know,

2105
00:57:35,219 --> 00:57:36,599
the growers we work with in the

2106
00:57:36,599 --> 00:57:37,800
ranches we work with.

2107
00:57:38,579 --> 00:57:39,380
It's the same thing.

2108
00:57:40,139 --> 00:57:41,139
Hey, man, are you if you're

2109
00:57:41,139 --> 00:57:41,940
going to spend this money?

2110
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,000
Are you going to put like you

2111
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,719
said, cover crops on and gain 60

2112
00:57:44,719 --> 00:57:45,519
or

2113
00:57:45,599 --> 00:57:46,400
50

2114
00:57:46,710 --> 00:57:48,250
pounds, right? What are you what

2115
00:57:48,250 --> 00:57:49,050
are you going to do?

2116
00:57:48,929 --> 00:57:49,730
Correct.

2117
00:57:49,940 --> 00:57:51,239
And at the end of the day, john,

2118
00:57:51,300 --> 00:57:52,119
would you I

2119
00:57:52,750 --> 00:57:54,510
mean, you you look at it and you

2120
00:57:54,510 --> 00:57:55,310
think about it.

2121
00:57:57,030 --> 00:57:58,110
And the amount of money that

2122
00:57:58,110 --> 00:57:59,010
they're spending is just an

2123
00:57:59,010 --> 00:58:00,530
investment. So where do you want

2124
00:58:00,530 --> 00:58:01,469
to just put your money you want

2125
00:58:01,469 --> 00:58:02,750
to put in investments or direct

2126
00:58:02,750 --> 00:58:03,550
expenses?

2127
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,039
Well, many farms, many farms

2128
00:58:06,039 --> 00:58:07,239
today don't have the financial

2129
00:58:07,239 --> 00:58:08,760
resources to put significantly

2130
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,099
to make any investments, even

2131
00:58:11,099 --> 00:58:12,119
though there's an argument that

2132
00:58:12,119 --> 00:58:13,320
can be made from a soil

2133
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:14,199
amendments perspective.

2134
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:15,240
I mean,

2135
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:16,780
we have so many agricultural

2136
00:58:16,780 --> 00:58:18,039
soils now that are completely

2137
00:58:18,039 --> 00:58:19,619
depleted of cobalt and

2138
00:58:19,619 --> 00:58:21,360
molybdenum and selenium and all

2139
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:22,360
these important trace minerals

2140
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:23,559
that add a great deal of

2141
00:58:23,559 --> 00:58:24,519
economic value.

2142
00:58:25,610 --> 00:58:27,210
But regenerating the

2143
00:58:27,519 --> 00:58:28,340
levels of those

2144
00:58:28,869 --> 00:58:30,539
is an investment.

2145
00:58:30,699 --> 00:58:32,400
It belongs on the CAPEX side of

2146
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:33,200
the ledger,

2147
00:58:33,260 --> 00:58:35,000
not in operating expenses.

2148
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:39,980
and so that's that's yeah that's

2149
00:58:39,980 --> 00:58:41,099
an interesting conversation

2150
00:58:41,099 --> 00:58:42,360
that's worth digging into but

2151
00:58:42,610 --> 00:58:44,030
let's get down to some closing

2152
00:58:44,030 --> 00:58:45,429
and rapid fire what do you say

2153
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,070
yep go for it one piece of

2154
00:58:48,070 --> 00:58:50,090
advice for a grower who only has

2155
00:58:50,090 --> 00:58:51,849
the budget to change one thing

2156
00:58:51,849 --> 00:58:53,590
this season what should it be

2157
00:58:53,809 --> 00:58:54,869
the one thing john

2158
00:58:55,340 --> 00:58:57,829
seed treatments and 10 books 10

2159
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:59,030
books yep

2160
00:58:59,659 --> 00:59:02,280
read good books okay i like it

2161
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:03,480
all right the

2162
00:59:04,010 --> 00:59:05,530
region legacy what does john

2163
00:59:05,530 --> 00:59:07,050
want the landscape to look like

2164
00:59:07,050 --> 00:59:08,010
what do you want it to look like

2165
00:59:08,010 --> 00:59:09,389
john in 20 years

2166
00:59:09,829 --> 00:59:11,010
Well, in 20 years,

2167
00:59:11,619 --> 00:59:13,619
my dream would be that there is

2168
00:59:13,619 --> 00:59:15,139
no such thing as a region of

2169
00:59:15,139 --> 00:59:16,480
agriculture and conventional

2170
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:17,280
agriculture.

2171
00:59:17,539 --> 00:59:18,900
It's just agriculture.

2172
00:59:19,159 --> 00:59:20,260
It's the way we do it.

2173
00:59:20,820 --> 00:59:21,860
Where to follow you, if you

2174
00:59:21,860 --> 00:59:22,660
would?

2175
00:59:22,380 --> 00:59:23,180
Websites,

2176
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:24,200
social media,

2177
00:59:24,659 --> 00:59:25,599
where to get your book?

2178
00:59:25,980 --> 00:59:26,780
Most anywhere.

2179
00:59:27,019 --> 00:59:28,900
I have a personal website at

2180
00:59:28,900 --> 00:59:30,960
JonKempf .com. I have a blog up

2181
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:31,760
there.

2182
00:59:32,139 --> 00:59:33,400
I have a podcast of the Region

2183
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:34,340
of Agriculture podcast.

2184
00:59:34,340 --> 00:59:36,380
You can find me on many of the

2185
00:59:36,380 --> 00:59:37,699
mainstream social media

2186
00:59:37,699 --> 00:59:38,500
platforms.

2187
00:59:39,039 --> 00:59:40,460
Well, John, no, I appreciate it

2188
00:59:40,460 --> 00:59:41,539
for sure. You know, and our

2189
00:59:41,539 --> 00:59:42,440
audience, you know,

2190
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:44,579
I just want to ask our audience

2191
00:59:44,579 --> 00:59:45,800
if you would follow us, you

2192
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:47,179
know, like this, share it with

2193
00:59:47,179 --> 00:59:48,860
everybody. This right here is

2194
00:59:49,079 --> 00:59:50,460
what agriculture is.

2195
00:59:50,820 --> 00:59:51,659
It's not the future.

2196
00:59:51,780 --> 00:59:52,820
We're not living in the future.

2197
00:59:53,099 --> 00:59:53,900
It's now.

2198
00:59:54,239 --> 00:59:55,599
And it was like this even years

2199
00:59:55,599 --> 00:59:57,360
ago, but it just took time to, I

2200
00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,280
feel like, blossom completely.

2201
00:59:59,420 --> 01:00:00,220
But this is

2202
01:00:00,900 --> 01:00:02,579
moving forward the way

2203
01:00:02,579 --> 01:00:04,380
agriculture will be done.

2204
01:00:04,599 --> 01:00:06,019
Talking to John about it, having

2205
01:00:06,019 --> 01:00:07,780
him spill out his knowledge, we

2206
01:00:07,780 --> 01:00:08,659
appreciate it, John.

2207
01:00:09,289 --> 01:00:10,530
We appreciate that you've shared

2208
01:00:10,530 --> 01:00:11,829
it with our audience and just

2209
01:00:11,829 --> 01:00:13,860
taking the time to literally

2210
01:00:13,860 --> 01:00:15,840
spend it with us and sharing

2211
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:16,679
this wisdom.

2212
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:18,159
Yeah, glad to be here.

2213
01:00:18,239 --> 01:00:19,039
Thanks for having me on,

2214
01:00:19,119 --> 01:00:20,119
Brandon. I look forward to more

2215
01:00:20,119 --> 01:00:20,940
conversations in the future.

2216
01:00:21,079 --> 01:00:22,280
Absolutely. Happy growing season

2217
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:23,900
to everyone. Yeah, same to you.

2218
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:25,059
Happy growing season to you and

2219
01:00:25,059 --> 01:00:26,079
we definitely appreciate you,

2220
01:00:26,219 --> 01:00:27,019
John. Have a great day.

2221
01:00:37,519 --> 01:00:39,179
The team at AEA and I are

2222
01:00:39,179 --> 01:00:40,699
dedicated to bringing this show

2223
01:00:40,699 --> 01:00:42,300
to you because we believe that

2224
01:00:42,300 --> 01:00:44,000
knowledge and information is the

2225
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:45,679
foundation of successful

2226
01:00:45,679 --> 01:00:46,980
regenerative systems.

2227
01:00:47,690 --> 01:00:49,670
At AEA, we believe that growing

2228
01:00:49,670 --> 01:00:51,389
better quality food and making

2229
01:00:51,389 --> 01:00:52,929
more money from your crops is

2230
01:00:52,929 --> 01:00:53,730
possible.

2231
01:00:53,949 --> 01:00:55,070
And since 2006,

2232
01:00:55,389 --> 01:00:56,289
we've worked with leading

2233
01:00:56,289 --> 01:00:57,630
professional growers to help

2234
01:00:57,630 --> 01:00:58,610
them do just that.

2235
01:00:59,340 --> 01:01:00,980
At AEA, we don't guess.

2236
01:01:01,260 --> 01:01:02,480
We test. We analyze.

2237
01:01:03,190 --> 01:01:04,409
And we provide recommendations

2238
01:01:04,409 --> 01:01:06,170
based on scientific data,

2239
01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:07,489
knowledge, and experience.

2240
01:01:08,170 --> 01:01:09,329
We've developed products that

2241
01:01:09,329 --> 01:01:10,630
are uniquely positioned to help

2242
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:12,130
growers make more money with

2243
01:01:12,130 --> 01:01:13,090
regenerative agriculture.

2244
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:15,219
If you are a professional grower

2245
01:01:15,219 --> 01:01:17,079
who believes in testing instead

2246
01:01:17,079 --> 01:01:17,880
of guessing,

2247
01:01:18,420 --> 01:01:19,519
someone who believes in a

2248
01:01:19,519 --> 01:01:20,940
better, more regenerative way to

2249
01:01:20,940 --> 01:01:21,740
grow,

2250
01:01:21,989 --> 01:01:24,429
visit advancingecoag .com and

2251
01:01:24,429 --> 01:01:26,179
contact us. see if AEA is right

2252
01:01:26,179 --> 01:01:26,980
for you.

2253
01:01:27,679 --> 01:01:28,880
Thank you for listening, and we

2254
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:29,760
look forward to working with

2255
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:30,560
you.