Lateral Moves and Life Management with Megan Stepaniak

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hi.

00:00:03
Speaker 2: This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker.

00:00:08
Speaker 3: And this is Sarah Hartunger. I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families.

00:00:17
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds.

00:00:19
Speaker 2: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life.

00:00:32
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. In this episode, Sarah is going to be interviewing Megan Steppinick, who is one of our Patreon community members in addition to being an awesome person combining work in life. But if people are wondering, our Patreon community is going strong, you can come join us and we have great discussions. So we do monthly online meetups which are fun, but kind of the bread and butter of how we interact is just.

00:00:59
Speaker 4: On the Patreon page for our group.

00:01:02
Speaker 1: We have discussion threats and we have talked about all kinds of cool things recently, I mean, from the best parties we've thrown to how to find a job pregnant, whether to take a job if you are the only remote employee, how to deal with kid anxiety around various activities. Just a lot of incredibly useful information from other people who are probably in the same boat. So encouraging people to come join us. We love to grow that community, and Megan is part of it. So Sarah tell us a little bit more about the episode.

00:01:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, so Megan volunteered. I think she called herself. I knew you were trying to do more regular person episodes, and I wanted to put myself out there, and her idea of what she wanted to talk about. What we did end up talking about is the value of making lateral moves to further one's career, which is great because I don't think it's a topic we've addressed before, not one that I have any expertise on, And so I learned a lot from her about how she's kind of had similar roles in various companies and how she's navigated that to craft a job that she loves, really find an environment that she enjoys working in, build her skill set, build her confidence, and even perhaps earn more money as well. So it was a really informative and fun interview. Plus we get into the weeds a little bit on day of the life stuff and logistics because you know, I always liked talking about that. So Yeah, it was a really fun and useful conversation.

00:02:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was realizing as you were talking about lateral moves. I mean, one of the things of having your own business or or a creative career.

00:02:38
Speaker 4: I don't know what a yeah, I mean.

00:02:39
Speaker 1: Everything's a lateral move, I guess, but there's no clear career progression, right. You don't go from a senior vice president to this next or something. It's it's very much like, well, what should I do next? I don't know what did other people do next? What do I find interesting? What could I get people to pay me for? So anything could be a lateral move, anything could be a move backwards.

00:03:00
Speaker 4: It's really just kind of hard to know.

00:03:01
Speaker 3: You try it out, see how it goes. It's an ill defined, meandering path. I mean, I was picturing a lateral move for somebody like you to be like if you were writing for Fast Company and then all of a sudden you switch to write for a different publication. That's kind of like a lateral move. But not really, because you're not very important.

00:03:19
Speaker 1: I've got to in and out of all sorts of different publications that probably all have very similar circulations. Often, you know, you write for one and then you know an editor you like leave, so you kind of and then you go somewhere else, and then that publication goes out of business, and then you go somewhere else. And yeah, so there's a lot of that, but you know, you keep attempting to inch forward at least as these things go. But very curious to hear how Megan has managed her career. So we'll let her take it from here.

00:03:47
Speaker 3: Welcome Megan to the show. I'm so excited to have you. Meghan is a Patreon subscriber and I think a blog reader and podcast listener, and she emailed us with a topic that I thought would be fascinating for our listeners, and I'll let her share a little bit more about that. But also, as requested, we want to bring more of those just glimpses into people's everyday working lives, how they're making work in life together. And I thought Megan would be a wonderful contributor to this series. So welcome Megan.

00:04:17
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. For having me. As you mentioned, I am a huge fan of your and Laura's work, so excited to be on the podcast. Yay.

00:04:26
Speaker 3: Yes, you mentioned it was on your hundred Dreams list, which made me super happy. So tell us or tell our listeners a little bit about the main thing you had wanted. Well, first, tell us how old are your kids, what did your current career look like, and then a little hint of the main topic you wanted to talk about.

00:04:44
Speaker 4: Absolutely so, my husband and I have been married for fifteen years. We live in Sat. Paul, Minnesota, have three kids. Ellen is eleven and the sixth grader, Benny's eight year old and a third grader, and Kate is five and then pre k and so busy in those school ages as you know. And currently my husband works from home and I lead a business at a large manufacturing company that I would say in the Fortune one thousand. Have always been in kind of B to B business to business marketing roles in a variety of a few different companies that are headquartered in the Twin Cities and across the few different companies I've worked in. Generally, those moves have always been lateral moves, and so thought that was interesting to talk about a lot of people I know want to get a promotion when they move companies, but I've actually found that taking a lateral move can help one build confidence in your career and your skills, but also to still bring a lot of career kind of upward trajectory once you're in and settled and can have proven yourself. So I thought it would be of interest potentially to the audience definitely.

00:06:03
Speaker 3: And the truth is, there are some roles in which lateral is the main move that makes sense. I mean, I think about medicine or I mean maybe law to some extent, But if you're sort of in one type of practice that is maybe your forever type of practice and you don't have particular leadership aspirations, lateral is kind of your your main option, right, So I think this is going to be widely applicable. And I also have to say, oh my goodness, your kids are like parallel to mine. Although yeah, fifth, third and pre k, what do you think about that?

00:06:35
Speaker 4: Ye?

00:06:36
Speaker 3: Six?

00:06:36
Speaker 4: Third, yep you six?

00:06:38
Speaker 3: What do you feel like before we get into lateral moves? What do you feel about this space?

00:06:43
Speaker 4: I'm enjoying it. I mean, life gets easier so we had our kids. They're each like three years apart. So we were in diapers for nine years, we were in naps for nine years. We were you know, so getting out of some of those things has been awesome.

00:07:00
Speaker 3: You know.

00:07:00
Speaker 4: Once our youngest hit three, we really said, you know, going out to dinner, vacations, like just so many things opened up because I, you know, we I want enjoyment out of things, and so if things were too stressful, I kind of would stay away from them. And so we did feel like totally on the upswing since the youngest was three and now in a fun age where you know, even I'll talk like, my husband works from home and so he gets them on the bus, he works, and they can come home and have screen time and you know it's fine. They can get their snacks sometimes ruin their dinner, but you know, so it goes.

00:07:38
Speaker 3: I love it, okay. Well, Pivoting back to the discussion of career, when did you first realize that it was time to think about making a lateral move and what were your thoughts at that stuncture. Was it scary, was it something you had heard about others doing. Did you wonder whether you should be looking for something different instead, tell us about your journey the furry first time.

00:08:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. So, and I think in business, you know, you mentioned some other career paths where laterals might be more of the norm, but in business and so, I've always been in marketing roles prior to my current role of leading to business. You know, people move for upward trajectory. And so my first company move, I was at a company feeling for ten years and so had really kind of grown up from a career perspective. I knew how they did marketing, I knew the products, the customers, et cetera. And I was at that point of looking for promotion at the company and it was maybe going to happen, but I didn't know when. And so a role came up outside and I just thought, this is an opportunity for me to see if what I've learned and my skill set translates. And so, honestly, it was probably the most confidence building move I've made, because they did. I moved to a different company. It was a smaller company, it was different types of it was a different type of product, it was a different sales channel. It was you know, all new people. I had to okay, I'm known for delivering results or building relationships, like can I do that elsewhere? And so it was one where I often think about when I talk to people about this, you know, are you running from something or are you running to something? And of course it's always better to be running too towards something versus a way. But I look back and you know, I'm sure could have had a great career had I stayed there as well. But it really was an opportunity to stretch and kind of flex those muscles and see did I have what I needed to be successful elsewhere? So that was the first time amazing.

00:09:56
Speaker 3: And then how long were you at that role before you decided it was time to move on again? And once again, how did you know what clues you in or is it more like serendipitous? Something just comes up and you're like, oh, that does sound cool. I guess I'll see what happens.

00:10:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, the next one was a bit more serendipitous. I loved the current role, but it was a smaller company and I wasn't sure what the opportunity would be to move ahead. So I had a really broad role, which is one of the things that had attracted me because it was a smaller company, and so the breadth of the work was wide, but from an upward perspective, there weren't as many opportunities, and so it was a little bit serendipitous that had applied at a company, large company in the Twin Cities that was well known and saw the upward trajectory potential and saw that there could be a long term fit there, and so it came to Fruition. It was one of those I applied online and got a call and went through the whole process, and it was you didn't really know anyone there, and it just happened to work out. But again, it was hardly a salary increase, and it was a very similar role that I felt comfortable and knew I would be successful in, but didn't want to be in forever. And so again it was one of those since I had done it before, I knew I could go in and you know, had some confidence coming in that you know could do it again. And so I think a lot of times there's this back and forth between changing jobs and companies is hard. There's that inertia to stay because in the short term, I think the upheaval of not only yourself and the work you have to put in, but your family. I mean, it is a big commitment for the entire family anytime one of the parents changes their job, and so trying to balance that short term piece with okay, what are the long term of fits that might come from that, and just taking a balanced view. And there are times when that makes sense and there are times when it doesn't. But I would say that when you know, I started the new job at the new company, and what it was maybe six months later, was telling my boss I was pregnant with my third child, you know, and so still we had been debating if we had the big debate two versus three, And it was even when I was moving jobs that we were kind of in that debate. And then yes, was in the role for a couple months, found out I was pregnant, Like, okay, So there's never a perfect time, But would just say, you know, continuing careers are long, and those times can while they feel long in the moment, can be short. And so it was a really positive move. Had a you know, they were supportive of as you would anticipate as they should be going out on maternity leave and coming back, you know, so I had her had the baby, I think right before I had hit a year, that's what the timing was. But then was able to get to promotions and be able to take on additional responsibilities and expand the role in the six years that I was at that company.

00:13:17
Speaker 3: Well, that's amazing. And to think that you might have thought, oh, no, my path here is doomed just because I'm going to have a baby soon after starting. I mean, yeah, there's no way. It is so short in the grand scheme of things, and it feels like such a big deal in the moment, and it may even feel like a big deal to those above you for like five minutes, and then it passes, and then you prove yourself and it's over and pumping is like way in the rear view mirror. And I mean, you were there a year before you had your baby. I was at my first and only job really for only six months before I had Cameron. And now it's funny how big a deal that seemed at the time, and how how little time it really was.

00:13:57
Speaker 4: So right and they're happy you're there and there, you know, I could look back now that was a blip on the radar of your career but yes, absolutely going in to tell my boss that I was expecting a third baby, and even I don't know if other people have felt this, but I felt like two's normal for a career driven person. But three, you know, are they going to think that I'm committed to work? Are they gonna put me on the mommy track? Because three kids feels just more more and you know, can you really be successful in your career as a woman as a mom. So it was stressful at the time, but obviously you know in hindsight it all works out. And to your point, it absolutely is a blip on the radar, and I try and remember that when I have team members coming and telling me that they're expecting that. In the grand scheme, it's short and work will get through it, and businesses are made to get by with people out.

00:14:53
Speaker 3: Yes, love it. Well, We're going to take a quick break and then I want to talk a tiny bit more about the lateral move trajectory. All right, we are back, and I'm curious because you know, there is a trade off when you choose to make a lateral move right, you're not building perhaps certain types of benefits that might accrue at a company like some companies might even have different escalating paid leave policies or salary ladders or things like that. Plus, staying at a company might make you a front runner for certain leadership positions, although that might not actually be true.

00:15:38
Speaker 4: You'll have to tell me.

00:15:39
Speaker 3: In different industries, maybe some companies are much more excited to hire from outsides than get a fresh perspective. So, I guess if you can talk about some of the pros and cons of going laterally versus staying a longer amount of time in one place, since you've had a little taste of both at this point, I would love to learn about that.

00:15:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think you know, A few things come to mind, So one first and foremost, you know, compensation and salary. I think it can go both ways. I think I think about the first job I was at for ten years. When you're at a role or at a company for a long period of time, and potentially if you're someone who has moved up quickly. In general, I'm going to talk in generalizations, you can be underpaid, honestly, and so there's that piece of it. And then to your point, there can be a time where you might be giving things up when you move companies and or if you're not, so you think about vacation. That's a common one that accruise over time and something to think about, something that can be negotiated. I don't love negotiating, but it's something I kind of kick myself. You have to do something, and so sometimes even if I'm trepidacious to negotiate from a salary or some of the financial pieces, ask for increasing vacation. To me, that's an easier piece that you can negotiate. And then when it comes to benefits in some of those there is an upheaval of switching those if you're carry you know the actual logistics of okay, we're on my medical and dental, et cetera, and switching and shifting. But generally I would say those are short lived. It likely varies. I've generally worked for larger companies, so it's you know, yes, there's going to be a little bit plus or minus, but nothing majorly different. So those would be the things that I would think about. I also would just say from a salary and broader compensation perspective, when you're internal, you have fewer negotiation powers. They know what you make. I have HR policies around general merit increases, promotions and what percentage comes along with that. Thus, we've been at a company for a really long time that can get a bit out. It could there's potential for it to get out of whack. When you're coming in new you get to set the stage and so there are times where you could say what you're currently making and what you're currently making is up to you. So I would just say that's something to think about when looking external and can be something that helps with that short term long term you know, inertia, the upheaval of moving companies, that can be the opportunity to get a much larger raise than you would ever get internally. I think that's whether that's good or bad. And you know, I think people I don't want to be so pro moving companies. I think it's really great to have good experiences and really have a valuable career and that could be long term at places, but I just don't want people to be afraid of it. But that can be a huge opportunity to kind of reset.

00:19:15
Speaker 3: Very interesting. I also, you know, as I'm thinking about this, the learning opportunities seem enormous because when you stay in one place, you only experience one way to do things, and the best way to find out that there are many ways is to actually see how others are doing things. So probably by having a few slightly different experiences, you come out a even more attracted and well rounded Kennedy. That might help you then later kind of go up the ladder, if that's what you choose to do.

00:19:45
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think whether you're learning new customers, new market, new product in my case, also seeing how different things are done. But it also we talk about agility, so the ability to adapt to ambiguous environments, and I do think moving companies, being brand new, having to create your kind of work brand all over again when you are an unknown entity, can really build on some of those skills.

00:20:19
Speaker 3: And you've mentioned that a couple of times. What is the Megan's secret for if you had to distill it into being like, Okay, I want them to know me as like, as you said, someone who gets stuff done. If you were to distill that down into one pithy piece of advice, what have you done to be that person?

00:20:36
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, And I also want to say, you know, of course this is adding my life example and things I'm extremely happy with my career in my life, but not that I have all the answers by any stretch. But I mean what I would say is one self awareness, So what do you want to be known for? And really that is what are you? And what have you been known for? Being honest with yourself and being open and communicate that. So understand what your brand has been and share that with people. I am known for X, and I want to work to be successful at this new company by doing that. Here to ask for advice, that's my favorite question when I'm meeting with new people at a new company and getting up to speed and onboarding and just saying what would be our advice as someone new to this organization, and then two or three leverage being new and try to meet as many people as possible. That is not what comes naturally to me always, especially once I'm a bit settled, and so I know myself I need to capitalize on that immediately because I don't feel awkward saying reaching out to because I'm new, I have a reason. Once I'm there for two or three years, I'm like, oh, if I haven't met that, you know, it feels a little more like networking to network, which is not my favorite thing. So those would be my three things. Know yourself and share it, to ask for advice, and three meet as many people as possible.

00:22:15
Speaker 3: Those are excellent. I love that all right. Now, I want to ask you a little about that kind of fitting work and life together type of stuff. I'm especially interested since you have a partner who works from home, so that would, I'm guessing, make you the less flexible one, although that's an assumption because not every work from home job is a flexible job. So tell me a little bit about how you have your logistics arranged in your family, what kind of childcare or not are you using, and then perhaps take us through a little day in the life at Megan's house.

00:22:46
Speaker 4: Yes, so you are in the current So I started a new company over the past year, and we are much more in person after having been remote at my previous role for the previous two years. And so my husband is at home full time and I'm in the office nearly full time. I would say, the kids are in school, and so right now we don't have a ton of childcare. My parents are close and help. And then we had had a nanny for seven plus years and so she helps a lot with days off school and some of those pieces. So example, my third grader was off on Friday and she was with them, But which are the kids love them too, So that's been working out well. But a day in the life would be I get up six forty five and leave the house by seven fifteen. So I am not a morning routine person. I am a get up, get ready, eat breakfast, and out the door quickly. My husband gets the kids breakfasted on the bus and so then I'm at work. It's about a thirty minute commute. So I'm usually at work generally we'll say eight to five. I work out over lunch three times a week. We have a gym, and so I've been trying to do more weightlifting. And then my lunch routine, which I wanted to highlight, which I love, is I generally lunch in my office while reading all the blog updates. So that's my kind of routine started over COVID and I love it. You know, get home. My husband is generally organizing dinner since he's the one that's home, and so we have dinner, which you know is a variable mix. And then usually if either it's kids activities, or if it's nice out, trying to get a little time outside biking, park, talk, whatever. And if it's winter in Minnesota, then we're doing something inside, playing puzzles, TV shows, winding down before bed. The kids head up for bed about eight, and then we kind of read and snuggle and then and maybe you know, nine to ten, my husband and I watch a show and catch up, and then I'm in bed and reading by ten. I need at least eight hours of sleep, prefer a little more. And so that's the general flow of the weekdays.

00:25:18
Speaker 3: I love it. I enjoy days in the life a lot. So maybe we'll have more of them. We'll see. I don't know if Laura likes them as much, which is funny because she's our time logger, but maybe she's read so many people's logs that she's already seen it all. I love hearing little details, including the times, and I'm always comparing my own time frame to others timeframe, and it's so interesting how you can have so much the same and yet have so much that's different. I wish Genevieve would go to bed at eight.

00:25:43
Speaker 4: That's all I have to say.

00:25:45
Speaker 3: Anyway, So this has been lovely. I would love us to share a love of the week, and I did prep you ahead of times. So do you want to go first?

00:25:54
Speaker 4: Sure, I'm going to go with a recent purchase that I made, which is some pants for work. So they're the spanks perfect pants and they're washable and I got them in a couple styles and multiple colors, and so they're kind of becoming my uniform and just fit nicely, don't have to think about it, and so huge.

00:26:19
Speaker 3: Fan love it. Well, I'm going to change mine and I'm going to do pants too, so I can match you. So I ordered some stuff from Marine Layer, which is not a sponsor or anything. They seem to just like have my style nailed and their stuff tends to fit me well. So I was super excited to get my first in many years, probably since college, pair of wide leg pants. And they're really cute. They're like kind of a peach color and like a trueful wide leg and I thought, as someone who is five foot one, I might not be able to pull it out, but I thought they looked pretty cute. I wore them out to dinner. I got a couple compliments and I'm into them, so I'll if you send me a link to your pants, and I've heard spanks has some really cute like actual clothing now, so I'm excited to see these pants and I will link to mine as well.

00:27:05
Speaker 4: Yes, it's the only thing I have from Spank. I'm not a big spank chopper, but I heard about the pants and support them.

00:27:13
Speaker 3: No, I've seen them linked on like multiple legit fashion websites and such, so you're on the pulse. Awesome, Megan, Well, this has been so much fun. This is Megan Stepanick. Meghan, can people find you? Do you have a blog? Do you have a presence?

00:27:30
Speaker 4: I'm on Instagram but under Megan q V a l E. Which is my main name, or on LinkedIn Meghan Stepanick.

00:27:40
Speaker 3: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing. I think this has probably been a useful episode for many probably made people think about things they may have not allowed themselves to consider. Perhaps, So if you have feedback or you have your own lateral move stories to share, we would love to hear them. Otherwise, thank you so much, Megan. It was a pleasure to have you on.

00:27:58
Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having me.

00:28:00
Speaker 1: All right, well we are back. Sarah was interviewing Megan Stepinick about lateral career moves, among other things of combining work in life. So we got this question a Patreon member asked us to post, and we thought we'd share some of ours and what other wreck people are coming. What are your favorite podcasts these days? What are you enjoying listening to?

00:28:20
Speaker 4: So I'll let Sarah take this because I don't really.

00:28:22
Speaker 1: Listen to that many. Why don't you go ahead?

00:28:25
Speaker 3: I feel bad because I actually recently got a question from a different person on Besley Plan, So I kind of like read the list there, but I'll give you some highlights. Actually, I'm going to give you the categories of podcasts that I listened to, with one representative from each category. I think that'll work and be less repetitive. So I listened to some running podcasts, for example, I love Another Mother Runner. By the way, you will notice that almost all the podcasts that I'm like, I love this one, they've been on the show in some form or on Bestlely Plans. And that's because when I love a podcast enough, I'm eventually going to reach out to whoever makes the podcast and beg them to come on my productions. So there's been a lot of crossover here life podcasts or parenting podcasts. I love The Mom Hour and I love Laura Tremain's Ten Things to Tell You, which she went on a year hiatus but then came back. I have some planning type podcasts. I love Planners and Wine and the Stationary Cafe financial podcasts How the Money, which we've done acrossover with Freakonomics and No Stupid Questions. I love like organizing and just sort of like how to do your life better type podcast including Cal Newport's Deep Questions, Happier with Gretchen Rubin, and more Organized through sixty five goes in that category for me, and again another crossover, and then books and music. I love NPR's All Songs Considered and vocals What Should I Read Next? And then some just other like randoms. I don't listen to a lot of like true crime or stories, although I've enjoyed some specific ones like I loved at least two of the three serials, and I loved Escaping Nexim, which I've talked about from the Canadian broadcast companies. So if you have rex for like a specific finite story type podcast, I might be into it. But generally the ones I listened to are more just like life and related to my hobbies, and I listen to them while running and I don't want to be too stressed out, and they're great, Yeah, no, sounds good.

00:30:17
Speaker 1: I tend to run in silence, so that's a.

00:30:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:30:22
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've just never really gotten into listening to me. I mean, if I'm an on treadmill, yeah, but if I'm running outside, which I vastly prefer to do, then that I just enjoy the silence while I'm running. So that sort of leaves podcasts for time in the car, which my kids tend not to want to listen to the podcast, so then I'm generally trying to talk with them if they're in the car. If I'm driving to get one of them, then I can listen to a podcast. But of late, I've more been listening to recordings of music that my choir is performing because I'm trying to learn it. It's been very complicated music lately. That we did this Saint John's Passion that was quite complicated. We did Carol Burnett's Bluegrass Mass, which was also very difficult, and so it's like extra practice time to have it playing in the car and so I've tended to use of late that time for that. But I like many of those podcasts that Sarah listened to as well. I've listened to many of those, can highly recommend them, and that's you know why we keep having the post sod on this program too. So anyway, this has been best of both worlds. We will be back next week with more on making work and life fit together.

00:31:28
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you.

00:31:36
Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.