Blue Jays Checkup w/Mitch Bannon + Nationals talk w/Spencer Nusbaum

00:00:04
Speaker 1: It is Miller time.

00:00:05
Speaker 2: Let's get some light takes with Mitch Bannon from Bluebird Territory. Blue Jays show that you Gotta Love and it's him, and it's Kevin Plar and it's Ricky Romero multiple times per week. Mitch also, of course, covering this team for The Athletic on a daily basis. Mitch, good to see you. What's the deal up there? This team is so close to a World Series last year, riding all of the momentum and often visiting the infirmary lately.

00:00:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I found it really hard to talk about and write about this team in the last couple of days because it's like, how do you evaluate a team that has ten guys on the injured list. It's every story is like, oh, the starter went two innings and a new guy went on the injured list, but there's still one hundred and forty seven games left. Like it, it is very difficult to evaluate the current Blue Jays by no means. Has this team played well? By no means, have most of the starters except for Kevin Gosman and mostly Dylancy's pitched well. The bullpen's been lights out, So if you're looking for a bright spot. The bullpen didn't allow a single run over the weekend to the Twins. They still lost the series. It is pretty tough. It's treading water. It's trying to stay afloat. It's doing what they can to survive until they get Springer and Barger and eventually Kirk back. Maybe some of these starters who got hurt in spring come up in the next week or two and give the rotation some real innings, because every three or four days it's a guy going two innings. The bullpen gets tired, and then it not only gives them a loss that day, but kind of ruins their next three or four days. It is pretty tough times for the reigning American League champions.

00:01:42
Speaker 4: What are they gonna do?

00:01:44
Speaker 5: I just I don't know.

00:01:45
Speaker 4: We were talking like you can't are The old saying is you can't win the Pennant in April, but you can lose it. Is there a chance they could fall so far behind? And I know they struggled last year early and then they took off and caught fire, But do they have enough depth in this organization? Like you said, tread water, No one's playing great in the Al East right now, But you know, are they gonna Is there a chance they could get too far?

00:02:07
Speaker 1: Mind?

00:02:07
Speaker 4: Because Max Suers are right. I did Max Suers his game on Monday. He came out of the game with foearm tendonitis and then he said, oh, I'll be fine on Sunday to pitch, and he goes out and has a clunker. So if they lose Max, then who's next? Right, how much depth do the Blue Jays have in order to just keep them afloat.

00:02:24
Speaker 3: They've kind of already called on that depth. Like the guys we see now were the sixth through eight starters.

00:02:29
Speaker 6: We thought we would see it in like June and July.

00:02:32
Speaker 3: So they've made They've pulled Patrick Corbyn off the street or off his his house in Florida to come pitch a game for them. He's gonna be in the rotation for the worst seeable future. They've made Waiver claims. They just made a trade for Lennin Sosa, bench and fielder. Like, they're kind of doing everything they can to stay afloat. I do think there's like a chance this team does fall out of it. The one benefit you mentioned the American League is like particularly muddy right now, Like the Twins, I believe have the best record in the American League, and I don't think anyone thinks the Twins are gonna end there at the end of the year.

00:03:03
Speaker 6: It's still really early.

00:03:05
Speaker 3: I think if they hover around five hundred even to the All Star break, like, if this is a team that's a game below five hundred at the All Star break, I think they got to take it right now. They have like ten or eleven straight series against legit contenders in late May and June. It's gonna be a tough stretch. I'm not sure there is much they can do. They can keep trying out the Tyler Fitzgerald's and Lenin Soss of the world to see if they can get like a decent breakout or a guy who plays well for a month. They can keep cycling through these seventh, eighth, ninth starters and see if someone can stick for a couple of weeks. But really it's waiting for Treya Savage to get back and hoping he can be a dude again, waiting for Jose Burrios to get back, and hoping his fracture in his elbow doesn't turn into anything, which certainly doesn't sound good, But he's pitching through it. So it is kind of a wait and see and hope you survive in the meantime. But if a couple other guys get hurt, if the pitching just doesn't figure itself out, or Trey Savage's shoulder starts barking again, this Jase team could be in a bad spot.

00:04:05
Speaker 5: Wait a minute. Last year, at this time, we weren't even talking about Ernie Clement not in the starting lineup, to Nathan Lucas not in the starting line I think Nathan Lucas wasn't he in Triple A or maybe I got that wrong. But yeah, so people will step up. That's how good teams win. But from this point in the season, is it, Hey, sus Sanchez, that you go, okay, this is the bright spot that we think we can we can continue to go on. Hey, you know what, Vladdie's hitting I think three twenty or something like that, Like, hey, Vladdie's gonna be able to carry this team when those things happen, because you say, oh, we get Addison Barger back. Addison Barger's hitting fifty three. If somebody else steps up, Addison Barger is not going to have his job back. Because this team needs to win and wants to win and is built to win. So it's really whoever steps up, But who is the guy right now that you're like, okay, because he's doing this, this this is a right spot for us.

00:05:03
Speaker 3: I think the problem is there's like not a lot of those stories right now. That's how you have like a team that is injured and also three games under five hundred and fifteen games another season. Like if there was guys stepping up or showing promise, I think the Jays would be in a better spot, but they're kind of still searching for those. Eloy Jimenez came up on Sunday, gave them two hits, two for four. They were really two singles, but and not particularly hard hit. Maybe he's a guy, but it's not like they're going to be put in Eloy and left field every day when George Springer comes back. I don't think that's going to be what the defensive mind did Jays want to do? You mentioned Hejezu Sanchez. He's actually looked pretty good and has been hitting a cleanup for this team a decent amount. I'm not even sure he's like a Maybe this guy's a good story.

00:05:45
Speaker 6: He seems to be a guy.

00:05:46
Speaker 3: The Jays need to be good like he's kind of graduated out of that. Maybe he can be good status and he's like he's one of the three or four guys they can currently rely on. I think the Jays are going to keep searching for it. They have some guys in the upper biners that could come up here if this continues for a cup weeks. They have a few young arms like a CJ. Van Ike and a Grant Rogers and Triple A that if if Max decides he needs to go on the injured list with this tendonitis, They're going to give those guys a shot. None of them are particularly highly ranked prospects, and I don't think New York is like clamoring to get them in the big leagues, but they're they're in the We got to give guys a shot and see who sticks mode.

00:06:20
Speaker 6: Right now, one of.

00:06:22
Speaker 4: These guys back, one of these Do we have an update on most of these guys? Is there?

00:06:26
Speaker 5: Can you give us a time for most of the Jays guys?

00:06:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Trey is Savage is going to start in a minor league game somewhere in the continent of North America to be determined. Maybe it's Florida, maybe it's Buffalo, maybe it's Vancouver, but I would find that unlikely on Tuesday or Wednesday, and then after that, if he gets up to seventy pitches, he has the command and looks good and kind of checks all the health boxes with his shoulder, I'd expect his next start is in the Big League, so that could come in the next eight or nine days. Jose Burrios is a bit behind him, so I think we're looking at maybe some time in the next three weeks he's back. George Springer and Addison Barger. Barger with the ankles, Springer with the fractured toe, they could be minimal ten day al stints, so at some point in April those guys could be back. But George, I think with the toe, it's kind of he can play after ten days, but the expectation that he'll be normal is like he's going to be hampered by that toe for a couple of weeks, and it's not like he was particularly raking before he went on the injured list. You mentioned Barger wasn't really hitting before he went on the aisle two, so they do have some near term guys like the Cody Ponts he's done for the regular season. Alejandro Kirk he's out for well over a month. Like those guys aren't on the near term, but the pitching and then George and Addison are the four guys they should get back in the next couple of weeks.

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00:08:47
Speaker 5: Before I get to my Trady Savage question, what about Bieber? You missed? Bieber? I know you had a lot and you had to take a breath, so you had to. I'll let you take your breath and shame, shame, Bieber. Where's that hope of return coming at?

00:09:01
Speaker 6: Yeah?

00:09:01
Speaker 3: So they he is kind of an odd one as much as like there are some odd injuries across this entire pitching staff with fractured elbows and her shoulders and stuff like that. But Bieber, he was forearm fatigue after the World Series last year. Into spring training, the Jays are like, we're just going to slow play this guy. He didn't get off a mound until after spring training and has been throwing fairly infrequently since then. Sounds like he is at live bullpens, are about to throw live bullpens. So I think we're looking at like a traditional spring training ramp up for him. So probably somewhere between four and six weeks. I'd be shocked if we see him before June at this point, and the Jay's rotation could look entirely different by then. I don't think he's going to be the guy that comes in and saves the current status of the rotation. Maybe more of an All Star break or just before that return for him.

00:09:49
Speaker 5: All right, well, you said Trey Savage. Oh you hope he returns to be the beast that he is. Let's be honest, This Blue Jays team did not make it to the playoffs because of Trey's savage. He had to read ridiculous playoffs and that's where they want him again when he comes back, and with the injuries, even saying if Max stays off the eel, here are they prepared or even able to have him in the rotation where it's not a guaranteed six man rotation like I felt like going into the season, that's what they wanted because of his lack of innings last year, and then all of a sudden, he's pitching for an extra month. So even when he's healthy when he comes back, what are they expecting his workload's going to be?

00:10:33
Speaker 3: I think it's gonna be something like what he did in the Miners last year, which was a lot of four or five innings starts. I think if they have the rotation depth by that point, Eric Lauer could slide into more of a piggyback behind him. That was kind of the plan if you Savage broke camp with the Jays, and I think that'd be a way to kind of mitigate his innings. I do think as much as you can put a positive spin on a cranky shoulder in a missed first month, the one beauty of tre not pitching this month is that Jays might not have to hold him back in terms of innings as much if he had been ready to go for thirty two starts. Like this team was not going to let this guy get anywhere near one hundred and eighty one hundred ninety innings with a missed month, maybe they can kind of let him go five innings, six innings and situations they weren't otherwise going to be able to, assuming he can, assuming he's healthy and effective. I think they're just at the point where they got to take whatever innings they can and figure out resting you Savage in July August September. If they're in a position where they're able to do that.

00:11:35
Speaker 4: Where's the home runs? Where's the home runs for this team? I know they're a contact team, but they did hit home runs LUs year. Where are all the home runs? And the home run jacket obviously is on vacation. I know they tried to wake it up, but where are the home runs?

00:11:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, they woke it up for a day. They put that note on the on the jacket and then hit two home runs. They got to bring the note back. I don't know why anyone decided that they could take that away after one game. I think this is what happens when George Bringer is hurt and not particularly playing well, when Addison Barger is not playing well and then gets hurt. Like those are two of the guys aside from Vladdie, who are supposed to bring the power in this lineup. And another guy, Cosmo O Kamoto, Like this guy was hyped up as kind of an all round hitter, but you watch his highlights in Japan and it's like light tower pole power, and we have not seen that once since joining the Jays, he's had an opposite.

00:12:22
Speaker 6: Field home run.

00:12:23
Speaker 3: He's been kind of more of a contact guy, and lately the contact has not even been good contact. It seems like he's kind of just trying to make contact for the sake of it, which is turning into a lot of rollovers and easy ground balls. I think the Jays didn't expect Okamoto to be the Bobashett replacement, but they thought he could be part of the solution. And right now the league has made an adjustment to him. They're overpowering him with high fastballs, showing him spin away and o Komoto just looks over mash Right now, he's striking out like thirty five forty percent of the time. They need that guy to at least bring a little bit of power to this lineup, all.

00:12:57
Speaker 5: Right, Since Alejandra kurt is going to be out for a while and when he does come back, a thumb injury is it's not not real real good for guys who want to get underneath the ball to try to receive it. Tyler Hyneman and Venezuela and Venezuela, what are there? What is their split gonna look like? We know Heineman's I think he's hitting like three point fifty, so he's going to be the next alle Jandra Kirk. But what is their split going to be, and is that going to be something that they might look outside the organization until Kirk comes back.

00:13:31
Speaker 6: If they have another catching injury, they might call you, Eric.

00:13:33
Speaker 3: Well, we'll see what happens, because there's not a whole lot of guys after that. But I think Valenzuela is going to get the run here more than Heineman. The Jays really like Hineman, but they like him as a backup catcher. They like him playing sporadically. They like him at most playing kind of two out of every five days, and they think Valenzuela has the upside here. We've seen him hit a ball one hundred and eleven miles an hour, which is the hardest hit ball of his pro career for a home run. We've seen him be pretty good behind the plate, like it's interesting. He has all the tools, like his pop time is great, seems like a decent receiver, but he kind of fumbles the ball every so often. It's just clearly he's a young guy who's not entirely refined at the big league level. But I think they're viewing they need upside right now, Like the offense is not hitting and so and not hitting home runs, so they're going to take the upside swing on Balanzuela. Hyneman also is dealing with back spasms, which is the reason that Brandon played three games in a row over the weekend. So maybe you weld get a better idea of what this split looks like coming out of the off day.

00:14:30
Speaker 6: In this next week or ten days, but.

00:14:32
Speaker 3: I'd expect it to be close to an even split with If anyone's getting more, it's probably the kid.

00:14:39
Speaker 5: I thought Hyaeman was a pitcher.

00:14:43
Speaker 3: He's pitching too much for a team that helps to content so far. He there was some guys in the in the bullpen the first couple of days of the season that had higher eras than Tyler Hyneman, which is not an ideal place to be for the Toronto Blue Jays.

00:14:56
Speaker 5: Yeah, that'll be fine.

00:14:57
Speaker 4: The bullpen's been good, surprisingly, I mean that was kind of the question coming in the season.

00:15:01
Speaker 5: The bullpen. The bullpen.

00:15:03
Speaker 4: Bullpen's been really good for him. It's been the starters that have had the troubles.

00:15:07
Speaker 6: Yeah.

00:15:07
Speaker 3: I think the one problem is the Jay's last year ran into in September, where like Hoffman, had more innings pitch than any other reliever. Brendan Little was second and Louis Arland was like fourth, and you could tell those guys got tired by the end of the year. I think they came into this year hoping to avoid that, and now they're in a situation where every game, every other game has been turned into a bullpen game. So that's another key thing. Not only do you need the starters to come back to try to win games, you need some innings to come back so you can rest your bullpen. And if you want to be playing deep in October, have Jeff Hoffman throw at ninety eight still and Louis Arland be able to pitch every single game of the postseason. You've got to set yourself up for success.

00:15:47
Speaker 2: Mitch question from a fan. A frequent flyer in the chat, Sicilian said, it's been two months since Tender's shoulder surgery. Can you ask Mitch how the recovery is going. I know there's still a few months to go, but just curious An's there.

00:16:02
Speaker 3: I don't have much I'll be honest, I think this is we're not going to see this guy until well after the middle of July. I don't think he's worth kind of putting on your radar at this point. I think there's a better chance Tony doesn't play a game for the Blue Jays this year, then plays more than like twenty five or thirty games. The Jays are just gonna kind of have him sit this one out rehab. If he comes back at the end of the year and provides three or four home runs, great, If not, let's try to get this contract off on what the third foot starting next year. I just don't think he's a guy that you should be worrying about on April thirteenth, that's for sure.

00:16:39
Speaker 2: Real quick to follow. I'm just sloking because I remember, I mean, he was a durable player. It was the three years leading up to him hitting free agency and signing with the Blue Jays his games played one fifty three, one fifty five, one of the most durable players in that three year span. That's about as good as it gets today's game. You mix it an off day here and there, that's wild. So it's just been a terrible shoulder situation that has plagued him, and now you barely can count on him getting back on the field.

00:17:10
Speaker 6: Huh yeah, exactly.

00:17:12
Speaker 3: So he fell into the stands in Anaheim would have been around I guess a month later than this last year. Then kind of tried to play through it for a month. I think it was a classic case of new guy off to a slow start, wants to prove something to his new team, tried to kind of bite the bullet and play through an injury that only made his shoulder injury worse. Tries to come back late last year, still didn't really have it in the playoffs, and then doesn't get the surgery, which is I'm sure he regrets at this point ramping up in spring, then gets the surgery. It's just been it's been a tough start to his Blue Jay's tenure. Not really a whole lot of good news for Anthony Santon there, but still got a couple of years left, so maybe maybe this could be a redemption story starting in late twenty twenty six or twenty twenty seven.

00:17:55
Speaker 1: That is true.

00:17:56
Speaker 2: It is a longer term deal, so there's time after this year. Thank you, appreciate you talk Seene.

00:18:03
Speaker 6: Sounds good. See you, guys.

00:18:05
Speaker 2: Mitch Fannin along with Ricky Rameira and Kevin Polar on Bluebird Territory if you.

00:18:09
Speaker 1: Haven't checked it out, you should. There's Mitch, There's KP, and there's Ricky.

00:18:13
Speaker 2: Wherever you get your podcasts also thanks to Mitch and the crew. They are sponsored by Miller Lte. Why not go grabs Miller Lte today because game time is millerd time must be legal drinking age, celebrate responsibly.

00:18:28
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00:18:50
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00:20:00
Speaker 1: Digital show perspective, so we're thrilled to have you.

00:20:03
Speaker 2: What do you think of the logo for the show and what do you think of the team so far?

00:20:07
Speaker 1: Ten percent into the season.

00:20:10
Speaker 8: I mean the logos a ten out of ten. Frankly, I'm glad that they didn't have me design it because I never could have done something like that, so we're off to a great start there. As for the team, frankly, it's it's been a bit of a surprise. I think going into the season, we knew that there were going to be rough patches. We knew that right out of the gate. It was Dodgers, it was Cubs, it was Brewers, and they've landed on their feet with a seven and eight record. I'm sure we'll get into this in a little bit, but the offense has just been incredible and the pitching, frankly, has not shown up yet, so really interesting mix a lot of long games because of it. But no, they've been fascinating and it's been really fun to watch kind of the new front office and the new coaching staff really kind of get a grip here and figure things out.

00:20:56
Speaker 4: How's that going. How's the but Terror Toboni combo going so far? I mean, they're obviously playing well, right, but how is it going for them on a day to day basis in kind of new positions for both of them?

00:21:10
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, frankly, it's been exceptional so far. There will always be kind of rough patches when you start, but when you think about where the Nationals were a year ago at this time and where they are now. They have a new infrastructure that again is prioritizing not just analytics, but simplifying those analytics, and they have a manager who you know, speaks that language but can also you know, relate to a very young team. You have a president based operations who has done the player development side and seems to have also done pretty well on the big league side so far. You have a lot of guys who have bought in to this new message just because the way things were before it just wasn't working out for the team. There's still more to do in the sense that there are a lot of processes still to set up. There are a lot of things still to implement. But you know, they're changing the lineup every day, and they're adding in new technology, and you know, they brought in an entirely new staff. I covered earlier today the hitters meetings look totally different from last year, and they're crushing the ball. So it's been a really good starting Washington. I think where you'll see them tested is when maybe there's a swoon in May or June, or they're ten games under five hundred. It's really how they respond, then that's that's going to catch my attention.

00:22:31
Speaker 5: Is it more encouraging the fact that c. J. Abrams and James Wood are the top two hitters on the team And there was fear that, Okay, they're already the top two hitters no matter who you brought in this year, who you didn't bring in, but that a new staff would maybe not necessarily connect with them. And so isn't that the most encouraging part of this that those two guys are just picking up where they left off, even to the point where I think they're both doing better. And so it means this new staff is helping them absolutely.

00:23:03
Speaker 8: And I think when you think about those two in particular, those are two guys where you don't want to mess with their swings too much, especially when you look at their first halfs last year. And so the job of the staff was, hey, how can we make these minor adjustments to make these guys really kind of implement that and take off throughout the course of an entire season. Again, I was someone who was a bit skeptical that the hitting development would come along so quickly, just because usually you see development happened quicker on the pitching side than the hitting side. But I think the fact of the matter is, look, these were two guys who were uber talented, who just need to be able to make adjustments throughout the course of an entire season, and you've seen them do that so far. Cg Abrams is walking more, James Wood is making more contact on pitches in the zone. They're both going up with really smart approaches. And when you think about what the next great Nationals team could be with James Wood in particular, and then potentially cj Abams, really with James Wood, he's someone who you want to be kind of the face of the franchise, and so if you're lifting up the floor of the roster, that's obviously excellent for the long term. But in terms of who could potentially bring this team into October, it's the James Woods and the cg Abrams of the world, and so it's really encouraging to see what they've done so far.

00:24:27
Speaker 4: Spencer, you mentioned the hitting the hitters meetings are different. Now, can you explain that what they've changed?

00:24:33
Speaker 5: Absolutely? So.

00:24:35
Speaker 8: I talked to a handful of players for this story, and what they had mentioned was, look like in the past, there were good meetings and there were bad meetings. They didn't want to like besmirch the old staff or the old way or anything like that, but what they said is, look, there were times where there just wasn't intent in those meetings, or it's just you know, we were kind of going through the motions, is what one of the players told me. What's different now is a they're kind of changing more on a game to game basis, where I think in the past occasionally there would be the same repetitive message in terms of where you want to get the ball or what you want to do at the plate, and you just kind of hear it day after day, whereas here it's hey, we're going to change based on the picture. We are going to have you do your homework every single day before you get to the park, where there's a sheet left at their locker and they fill out the zones that they want to attack on that given day. There are more metrics, but it's not so much so that it's overwhelming or anything like that. It's more in the sense of, hey, pluck out what you need and we'll work with you from there. So I think that hitters have really enjoyed that kind of planning and preparation, whereas in the past, again I was told it was maybe a bit repetitive at times. And while there again there were great meetings before and there were days where the offense really showed up, it wasn't necessarily changing on a game to game basis like this. And so they've really liked the three new hitting coaches. They've liked what the front office has been able to do in terms of providing them the metrics and the support that they need. And obviously you're seeing it show up. I think the only team that's scored more runs per game is the Dodgers, So clearly something is working all.

00:26:15
Speaker 4: Right, Before we get to the pitching, didn't you say they have to do homework. They have to do homework, they have to circle where they want to swing at. I just circle the middle every time I want to swing at this one, right, Yeah, I mean, didn't that be the key. I'm just gonna try and swing at the one right down the middle every time.

00:26:30
Speaker 5: So yeah, I.

00:26:31
Speaker 8: Think I'm not gonna argue with a former big leaguer on something like this. What I will say is that their approach has been, like take Brady House for example, He's someone where the coaching staff last year said, look, dude, you need to pick one side of the plate. He's someone who's coming to this year and again that homework's been really helpful because he knows, Hey, against this pitcher, I know like I can take pitches the other way. I have a lot of opposite field power. He's going to throw the ball a lot there. I can do damage there. Again, I think you weren't necessarily filling out one zone, so I'd be surprised if any guy doesn't have the middle of the zone circled.

00:27:08
Speaker 6: But it really is.

00:27:09
Speaker 8: About picking where you swing and being intentional about that instead of saying, hey, I can cover the whole strike zone, because a lot of times even the best players in baseball can't do that. So yeah, I'm sure a lot of them have circled the middle, but it is about kind of expanding that a little bit, and again, based on the pitcher they're seeing that day.

00:27:26
Speaker 4: All right, Well, we talked about the good part the offense. Do we need to bring up the pitching because it has not been very good so far. They're twenty ninth and pitching it's been not good. Yeah, there's great, but they're scoring a lot of runs, but that's not usually sustainable for a whole season. You at some point you have to get somebody out consistently.

00:27:46
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I think it really speaks to kind of what was here before and how much money then that's spent in the offseason. The big approach in the minor leagues for them right now again is to add guys with stuff. It's because the players that they have in the big league gross right now, while talented and while able to adjust, don't necessarily have the fallback of throwing one oh one or throwing you know, ninety three with a ton of break. It's a lot of guys who can kind of navigate their way around a big league lineup and have some track record of doing so, but it's not necessarily the same fallback option that you see littered up and down these rosters. So they've gotten themselves in trouble with the walks, and I think that's something I'm paying attention to. But really so much of it is, hey, like we're just not able to miss bats, We're not able to get guys to chase outside the zone. That's you know, in the stretting rotation and the bullpen. There are some bright spots, but it really has been tough for them to just kind of get those out pitches and be able to kind of work through a lineup three times. And again, I think that's why they're spending so much time in the minor leagues focusing on strength training and velocity training and you know, to drive line. It is maybe an oversimplification, but that's kind of the state of what they're trying to do right now. So yeah, it hasn't been pretty so far, and I don't necessarily know when that will turn around, but it's a lot of guys who, again need to spend maybe more time, I don't know, figuring out how to add stuff specifically at the minor league level.

00:29:27
Speaker 5: So what you're saying, Spencer's they should just throw harder.

00:29:31
Speaker 8: Right Again, that's maybe the oversimplation of how I want to put it, but I mean there really is some truth to that. And look, they're working with a new set of pitching coaches, so they're all trying to figure out what's going to work best for them, and I think that's a learning adjustment as well. I've heard nothing but good things about the pitching coaches, but again, it's going to take time if you don't have the fallback option of ninety nine. You know, Jake Irvan is someone, for example, who when he's at his best, like he's thrown one hitters over eight innings or two hitters over you know, seven and two thirds, Like he knows how his stuff plays. He knows how to work through a roster or through a lineup. Excuse me, but again, it's it's someone who I think even he acknowledged this offseason, like, Hey, I need to change something about my game because I had an ERA in the fives last year, and a lot of that just comes down to the stuff. So yeah, it's maybe an oversimplification to say they need to throw harder, but you do have a lot of players who just don't throw as hard as other guys in the major leagues. And I think you've you've kind of seen how that's played out so far.

00:30:42
Speaker 5: Or the fact that they didn't go out and spend enough money or any money to solidify this just entire pitching staff in general. But the person that did spend money on Foster Griffin doesn't throw hard and he's I think he's got like a one to seven e ra so there's success there of not throwing hard. Maybe these pitching coaches shouldn't just teach how to throw a heavy ball against the wall and should teach how to throw to locations in the zone correct.

00:31:10
Speaker 8: And I guess that's where again I may say I'd be over simplifying things. But Foster Griffin is another one where, hey, throw hard is maybe like an unnuanced way of saying it, but he throws like seven different pitch types and they all have different sorts of break, and they're all kind of distinct shapes and velocities from one another. So maybe it isn't throwing harder, but it's changing your usage or it's adding a pitch. And you know, this is stuff that doesn't really happen in season per se, but it is figuring out, hey, what's the best way I can navigate a big league line up with what I have at the moment. Foster's a great example of someone who may not fit the prototypical shape of a big league picture right now, but they have said over and over he's super intelligent and he has all these different pitches that can get guys out. So yeah, it's not just philosophy, right, it's usage, it's how you game plan, and it's why again that this isn't necessarily the same pitching staff and the same sort of numbers that you're going to see at the end of the year is because there are guys with room to grow.

00:32:14
Speaker 2: We'll go full circle here to kind of finish where we started. Did you see talk Natz post about how Kevin Franzen took like a little shot this weekend at the Martinez quote from last year? Okay, so can you lay that out because you'll do it better than I will.

00:32:33
Speaker 5: Yeah.

00:32:33
Speaker 8: So, last year, Dave Martinez, who was the manager at the time, in the middle of I think it was an eleven game losing streak, was asked by me where the onus lay for their issues last year at the plate, specifically, you know, whether it was on the players, whether it was on the coaches, And when we got to that point, Davey said, it's never on coaching, and you know, the coaches work their butts off. You know a long quote that basically said that, and players took exception to that fastwards this year and you've had a coaching staff that has talked a lot about accountability among the players, but also among themselves. Corey Ready, who's their first base coach, had mentioned like, hey, some guys got picked off the other day. That's on me, Like, I, you know, I couldn't sleep at night because I had let these guys down. And that's when Franzen made his comment about, hey, that's a that's a coach with accountability. So that's a great guy making a joke. But he's also making a point that hey, like we're not just gonna you know, talk the talk, We're gonna walk it. And so I think that's been a really compelling storyline to follow this year, is just how much a really young team with a really young coaching staff has been able to hold each other accountable. And that's something I'll be following throughout the course of the.

00:33:54
Speaker 2: Year quick follow too. I mean, it's making me feel old that Corey Ray is a first base coach. I remember covering him draft wise. It was ten years ago exactly actually right when he was a first rounder twenty sixteen.

00:34:11
Speaker 1: That's crazy, how quickly.

00:34:13
Speaker 4: That you didn't have anyone over thirty five years old?

00:34:15
Speaker 2: That's true, another youngster. How old's Corey Ray? Probably thirty something like that?

00:34:23
Speaker 5: Ten years ago?

00:34:24
Speaker 2: Not even well, we're going to do it on the fly. Here, I'm going to tell you, anyone want to take.

00:34:28
Speaker 4: A guess twenty nine?

00:34:30
Speaker 1: I think it's thirty Kratz.

00:34:33
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm gonna say thirty or thirty one. I was in camp with him in eighteen nineteen.

00:34:38
Speaker 1: It's cheating.

00:34:38
Speaker 2: You can have to answers he's thirty one. But yes, all good guesses, good stuff though. Spencer really enjoyed the combo and the insight and congrats again on the launch of the show.

00:34:49
Speaker 1: We're super excited about it.

00:34:51
Speaker 2: Fresh episode or first episode is out right now for people to check out. Thanks, Spencer will be talking yep, thanks for having me. That's Spencer and Eric w the District Territory. That's what it looks like. It is part of the Ft Network.