The BEST And WORST Trucks At The 2026 Detroit Auto Show! | Ep. 314

[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Detroit.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the 2026 Detroit Auto Show, International Auto Show, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they actually call it International anymore because it's pretty...
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty Detroit Central, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Much, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is another European automakers are here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of the Japanese and Asians aren't here.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is really almost like true Michigan show.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about as Michigan as it gets, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for joining us on this episode of TFL Palking Truck Spotcast with me on this episode is my friend Sam Abel Samad, you have your own podcast, you have your own, I mean you do many things in the out-of-mode of industry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll smile in the lampire.
[SPEAKER_00]: A little lampire and you've been in the industry for about four decades, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, actually last year was my 48th year since I started as an engineering co-op student working in the auto industry.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go, do you understand this industry quite well?
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I want to do, this is our best of Detroit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we want to walk around and I can just show what's here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe get some insight, especially from you, about what, you know, state of the industry a little bit, what trucks and big SUVs are here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're starting here in the Rambooth as the longest, because they actually have a lot going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, they do, and right here, we've got the RAM 1500 graph, which eventually might even go on sale.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the last, most recent I've heard, second half of this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is the range extended electric RAM.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, we can show the badge actually, so actually this looks almost like a production model, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, actually I actually saw one on the road driving here this morning, and apparently there's about 200 of these now that are out being driven around by Stalantis employees.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I have a little bit of insight information because about an hour ago I spoke with Tim Kineskis, the CEO of Ram, and I asked him on the due date on the rev, and he said,
[SPEAKER_00]: So, he said they had a lot going on, you know, they're launching the TRX and several other things, and so, so stay tuned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, they still have vehicles that don't have how cats and hammies in them yet that they have to, that they still have to deliver, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but this is quite interesting, this truck, let's look inside of this truck, because I've seen some prototypes before, but this seems to be almost finished, you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, the thing you've got to keep in mind is that, you know, this is the cab is basically standard RAM 1500.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's, you know, unlike a lot of the prototypes that we see where, you know, you'll see surfaces that don't have all the proper graining on them and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is just, this is stocked 1500s, like any other 1500.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's what's underneath that makes the difference.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, and what's underneath is electric motors, one in the front, one in the rear, so it's all will drive, four-wheel drive, and we have a pentastar under the hood.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you got about 650 horsepower from the two motors that are driving the vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got a 90 to kill a lot of our battery pack.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a 27 gallon fuel tank that is fueling the penistar V6 that is not connected to the wheels in any way.
[SPEAKER_01]: All it's doing is driving a generator that, as your battery depletes, that generator is producing electricity to keep the battery charged so that when you're telling, you can unlike with a lightning or other electric.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been fooling out of your ears, just keep on going.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also,
[SPEAKER_00]: The capability of the towing rating on this is 14,000 pounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's got heavy duty hubs.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the hubs on this thing, it's eight lugs.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this should be quite interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: But right now, for RAM, it's a lot about internal combustion, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's walk over a little bit further, because we don't have pricing on this yet, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Although Ram says, Ram actually told me that the rev range extender will be cheaper than all electric.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you got the plug right here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not the CCX.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's still CCS.
[SPEAKER_01]: But who knows?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to keep delaying this by the time, they actually build it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It might be like a kind of an ax for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, but do you agree with that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but the RNG Extender could be more affordable than an electric truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because when you look at the cost of the battery, you know, what they originally announced with the Bev version of this, the standard Bev version was going to be 160-hour, 160 kilowatt-hour battery.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is 92, so if you're taking it out about 70 kilowatt-hours of battery, almost kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're taking out about, about, somewhere between $9 and $10,000 a cost, just from that battery.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then to add the range extender back in and the fuel system and the exhaust and everything, it's probably somewhere in the neighborhood of $4 to $5,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, theoretically this thing costs, at least cost, I don't know how they're going to price it, but at least from a cost perspective, it's probably going to be about $4 to $5,000 cheaper first to land as to build that than for the standard range bevel that they were going to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we're standing next to a truck that's the opposite of the one we just looked at.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a 5.7 liter hammy that's super-churchable to wipple.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about 650 because this is called the 650 which is basically identical horsepower level as that electric range extender.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it'll be interesting when you guys get a chance to hopefully
[SPEAKER_00]: Because this one is probably lighter in weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably lighter, but I'll bet you that one might still be quicker.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's all the electric torque.
[SPEAKER_01]: That instant electric torque and all wheel drive is this all wheel drive or it should be or rear wheel drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I hope it's all drive too, because Even if it's all wheel drive, the power delivery is not going to be the same as what you're going to get it as the electric motor So I want to see you guys drag take these two to the air strap Yeah, but what do you think about this?
[SPEAKER_00]: E-torque.
[SPEAKER_00]: This supercharged RAM 1500 here.
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, it's coming with the direct connection
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not as easy for the dealer, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the five seven hammy has the e-torque on there is standard and I think to simplify the installation, keep things as to minimize the complexity.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's easier to leave that on there because otherwise if you take that off, you're going to have to put on an alternator and set up the electric system for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the different for an alternator.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so this is taking the place of the alternator on a traditional engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and there's a small battery in this system as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not a humongous one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's about a half-tell a lot of hours.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very, very tiny, but comparison.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's interesting because this looks like complexity, but it's a little bit counterintuitive that this would be easier to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: It actually simplifies because that also takes the place of your starter motor.
[SPEAKER_00]: yes so there's no there's no traditional starter burger no alternator you just have that one unit bam and it's driven by the serpentine belts so so it's right there okay let's keep moving now there's also the TRX we've done many stories already about the TRX it's coming back and they're saying kind of middle of this year yeah like summertime and are you excited by this what do you what do you think you know yes and no okay um you
[SPEAKER_01]: I always love hearing the sound of a Hellcat, a supercharged V8, but the reality is driving him, having driven the RHL and the first generation TRX, the RHL was just as much fun to drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it didn't have quite the sound, maybe not quite as quick, ultimately.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm sure there will absolutely be an audience who is trucked.
[SPEAKER_01]: There will be people that want the most that they can possibly get out of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the 777 horsepower now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Triple 7s?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I keep thinking about Las Vegas for some reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, pulling that, pulling that handle and seeing triple 7s.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure it's just a complete coincidence that they tuned it to exactly 777 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_00]: It couldn't be 776, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, or 778.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it's about.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about working.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was actually at my local dealer near Denver, Colorado, and the orders for these are not open yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: 2027, this is a 2027 model.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my dealer said they have a list, a spreadsheet of 30 people waiting for this new G-Rex.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's cheaper than the, uh, the, uh, the, well, it's cheaper than the Raptor R. Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's also cheaper than the final edition of the old TRX.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is a little sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although it is significantly more expensive than the TRX was when it launched, which is the one you guys own.
[SPEAKER_00]: because it started in 2021 model year at $72,000 and the one we purchased had a couple of options several things at $77,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a hundred and two thousand dollars including the $2,595 destination charge now which is a few manga charge and you and I on our podcast we talk about this because
[SPEAKER_00]: $2600 is almost pretty crazy all right let's keep moving I noticed a really cool gladiator can we go see yeah let's go see the gladiator so so Ram and Columbus has the big presence at this show this year I mean their booth was pretty tremendous and they have Cam Jeep yep area as well I think Cam Jeep so that people can as when the consumers come in they can go try out the jeeps on you know even if they never actually if they buy a Jeep they've never taken off road they can still kind of get a little bit of that experience right here on
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're walking by several vehicles, so if you want to learn more about the recon, or maybe the Cherokee, come back to our car podcast, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're focused on pickup trucks in this particular area.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, what do you think about the look of this?
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the military look.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like this look.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like nice clean, kind of, a little more subtle, but the matching wheels and the all-of-drap paint on the bodywork, I think it looks really neat.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's reminds of the original wheelies, you know, jeeps.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's look at the front a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to bring up a point since we're looking at this gladiator and talking about Jeep, is that recently,
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, it was confirmed that their plug-in hybrid for biotechnology, not the entire four-by-e in the gameplay, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: For biotechnology is applying to everything that they build with the plug.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but plug-in technology is going away, at least for now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the plug-in hybrids that they have on the Wrangler, the Grand Cherokee,
[SPEAKER_01]: and that they were planning for the gladiator tuner as well as the pacific a plug-in hybrid all those are being discontinued oh i'd be heard about the hornet at all i haven't heard anything on the hornet i'll have to ask because it has a plug-in version of the other that's a that's a that's a completely different system that they have on there
[SPEAKER_01]: But these all all four of these vehicles or three of them that were actually in production Stellanus has had a lot of issues with recalls on those they've had some problems with with fires on them and so they've gone through a That's long straight so unfortunate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think you know given that they you know with the rollback and emission standards They don't need to have these in the lineup anymore now and the problems that had with it trying to get those sort of
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it'll come back in the short order like one or two years down the line?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it might return?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's probably more like three to four years.
[SPEAKER_01]: So probably not that quick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably be an ex-generation system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe based on some new battery technology, some different suppliers.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at some point, I think they'll probably bring it back.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not as quick as some people might think, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And what we might actually see is depending on the success of that ram rev and the grand wagon
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh uh, uh uh, uh uh, uh uh, uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's just show this grand-wagonier.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is basically the cousin to that ram rev that we're looking at, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Also a little plug, still a CCS, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's basically, it's the same power train that's in that ram rev, but with a smaller fuel tank, because this has a shorter wheel base, so it's only a 20 gallon fuel tank.
[SPEAKER_00]: Versus what, 20, 27, and over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's got a fresh face, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just ridded the face on the grand bargain here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And look at this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look what it says.
[SPEAKER_01]: Has the Jeep badge?
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to go looking inside the headlamp cluster for a little tiny Jeep.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what we're referring to is when the grand bargain here and the bargain here launched, it was like a sub-brand, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: For Jeep and it had no Jeep badges whatsoever, and they didn't make sense to a lot of us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it just had a big wagon here across the front
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think now it's proper, right, it's part of you buy them at the same dealership, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to wagon the air dealership.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't like this new one and look on here, the new lighting and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's, I mean, it wasn't the completely redesigned, obviously, because the vehicle is most of the same, they just change the headlamps and kind of the face of it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they took a lot from the design of the wagon your S, EV.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, added this light strip in here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's a good look.
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes it look a little slicker.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the Gladiator soldiers on, do you know anything?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you share anything?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the Gladiator is getting long in the tooth.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it came out of the 2020 model.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard anything about like redesigning it or anything?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think 20...
[SPEAKER_01]: Twenty twenty eight time frame is when a twenty twenty seven or probably late twenty seven or early twenty eight is when we'll see a next generation And I think this is gonna share platform with the ram mid-sized truck that the Dakota So recently they they had an event and Tim confirmed that the mid-sized ram truck is gonna be called Dakota And that's a so Lito that's the occult in Toledo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: which is where these are built, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, and so on the Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll probably see them share an architecture all based off a variation of the Stellafram architecture.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll probably see an update of both this and the Wrangler around the similar time frame.
[SPEAKER_00]: that would be exciting because I heard a lot of rumors and a lot of forums talking about that this was a one-generation vehicle that was going to go away in a one-and-done type of thing, but I was hoping it wouldn't be true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it seems like it's not correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, plans are changing all the time, so it's entirely possible that they might decide not to continue with this, they might decide that the Dakota is a better way to go for a midsize, or they might keep the
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm hoping they keep this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, if they're using the same platform, well, I know it's relatively, and you've got a lot of the same sheet metal from the Wrangler, it wouldn't be that crazy expensive to do both.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope they go that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of changes, we see a lot of quick changes in the industry these days, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, constantly, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you've been around, like you said, you know, industry for 40 years plus,
[SPEAKER_00]: if you could take a lot longer isn't that to just make adjustments or is it true?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it was as much that you know had changed, you know, I think the time it takes to develop a new vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's gotten a little bit faster, but it's still you know three to four years to develop a new vehicle from scratch.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what has been changing a lot is the product plans.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they'll start down the path of developing something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Besides, no, that's the wrong direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to drop this and do something different.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's something that we haven't really seen so much before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just kind of re-adjustment of the timelines, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just timelines and just one point.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're doing based on market conditions.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got changing regulations, changing consumer demand.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have to adapt to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we just walked into the Ford space.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ford, obviously, also has a gigantic presence at the show, a very large booth.
[SPEAKER_00]: We kind of walked by past a couple of Broncos and did it on purpose because
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a whole different kind of show, but in the truck space there's still, actually they dropped a couple of hints, were you at the event last night?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I was at a background around Monday.
[SPEAKER_00]: So check this out because one of the four executives was up there yesterday and I was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, by the way, the Ranger tremor will be returning.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was a nugget that I kind of caught in that presentation and also a special car-hart version of the super duet Yeah, it was going to come and they teased it with some a wheel Okay, you know they showed a wheel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that kind of looked like they said it was inspired by a Detroit manhole cover
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they've got some really interesting manual covers in this town, you know, especially cast with some intricate designs on them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it would make sense to have a badge that takes inspiration from that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so obviously they haven't updated.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're super-duty in the while, I mean, 2023 was kind of the year where they kind of changed the face of it, the front end, did some engine updates.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they did a lot of upgrades for 23, and they considered it a generational upgrade.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was some pretty substantial changes done at that time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, there are also a lot of rumors, you know, we live in the day and age where you see a lot of like AI based imagery or video and somebody told me that.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but I want to differentiate what I'm doing is because I'm not saying a caterpillar pickup truck is going to be here tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not what I'm doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've done something before where I have an idea in my head like a lower TRX and I use a I just to create a damage.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're very clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is our my rendering.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my thoughts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, look, it's coming tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, bad type of stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you look at my YouTube feed, you'll see all kinds of nonsense pop and up on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason why I mentioned this is because somebody said, at Detroit in 2026, we're going to see an eight litre power stroke diesel that's coming tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well,
[SPEAKER_00]: there's no engine news here so so and also somebody said there's going to be a new Duramax V8 8.3 liter that's also not here we'll show the GM in a second so Ford has the entire lineup here there are Ranger Raptors here which we actually used to own it here oh truck yeah that's all my favorite of the the off road mid-size trucks
[SPEAKER_01]: above all of them yeah yeah I would agree with you I would agree with you others it's just it seems like the right size the right power it's a nice balance yeah it's like you know that the ATV the Canyon AT4X AV edition you know awesome but you know it's also really high up you have to like have jump in to this fight um i when i had one last
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a payload of 850 pounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: My next one, neighbors, have a 22-mavoric hybrid, just the base, the one they used to sell for 20 grand, which has a 1,500 pound payload capacity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost twice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, this is really interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And these rangers actually have decent payload.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, if we check this one, I'll bet you the booleo around 1,400 probably.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is actually,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm a big dude, 1340.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're not far off.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's still respectable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're not far off because, you know, I'm not going to say exactly how much I weigh, but if you put four adults, four don't men into a canyon, I mean, in this, well, in this thing, you're still going to have several hundred miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: A little bit left.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that canyon, and it would be easier to talk.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can't take anything else with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of Mavericks, there's a couple of Mavericks here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell me a little bit about uh... uh... and actoy you know what's up there so in the uh... the american car truck and utility the year uh... the truck of the year was one by the maverick lobeau the uh... district truck yeah this one this was this was the winner other than the human has a plaque on it of course yet they have all that stuff prepared in advance you know just in case they went okay
[SPEAKER_00]: So that wasn't announced today.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was in Africa.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, about three hours ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fresh off the presses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, so to speak.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that, so Lobo is a new trim level, really.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's also kind of a signal.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's at least in my mind, and I want to see if you agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: That,
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of the street, slightly lowered truck are making the resurgence.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, trucks being so popular, manufacturers are looking for any way to potentially expand the market.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: the regular, you know, standard mavericks and rangers and so on, already very popular.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, what other niches can they find, you know, based on the existing platforms they've got.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this, you know, based on the Maverick, there's already the F-150 Lobo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've actually, I would be surprised if we don't see a ranger Lobo at some point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's over here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just take a look.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for the F-150 Lobo, they didn't lower it as much as they did with the Maverick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's my kind of a comment.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they made it level, so if you take a wide view, sorry about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you take a wide view, they lowered it in the back about two inches.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it looks level which I like, but there's still space.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's still a lot of space between the wheel and the fender, so I kind of wanted it to look much lower.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that wouldn't be surprised if they do that at some point, you know, if it's popular, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if it's popular, if they think that there's a market for it, they will certainly build it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you mentioned something else like, you mentioned possibility of a Ranger level.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wouldn't you wouldn't rule out that possibility for it hasn't said anything about that No, they're not saying but but if he's if these two sell well Yeah, it would it would make sense for them to do a Ranger and also when they're doing tremors across the board Exactly, so you know Lobo's Lobo's across the lineup as well would make sense that makes sense Because they announced the tremor Ranger coming back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's really interesting Well, there's a lightning there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's been discontinued.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but they don't have a bunch left to sell
[SPEAKER_01]: And since this is, you know, mainly a consumer show, you know, people from around Southeast Michigan or the Northwestern Ohio are going to be coming here over the next week and a half to check out the new vehicles as they get ready to buy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is something that they want to sell off.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Ford says in a couple of years, the lighting will return, but as a range extender, very similar to the ram.
[SPEAKER_01]: So instead of a front here, you will have some kind of engine and a generator.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is kind of a shame because I like this covered with a protected space.
[SPEAKER_00]: that's in the front.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, it's, you know, I think Ford did a lot right with this truck when they built it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They got it to market quickly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing that it's not good at is towing long distances.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything else, it's arguably on the market.
[SPEAKER_01]: Arguably the best F-150 for everything except long distance towing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to shame that they're not going to have the bad version around, I would love to
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, given the market realities that he revs is probably the right choice for them to be made for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then as the technology matures, batteries may get cheaper and cheaper.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, as you start to get the LMR batteries that they've talked about, or, you know, structural battery.
[SPEAKER_01]: Different different chemistries, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Get solid state, get higher energy density, and bring the cost of those batteries down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then maybe come back and revisit the electric charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard any, any, any rumblings of, remember the, uh, model T moment?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but they talked about the mid-size-ish, small-ish electric car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still got a maverick size truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard anything else?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we going to see, uh, concept or something else?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we will start to see some stuff, uh, from forward over the next several months.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that would be exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's schedule, just going to production around the end of the year.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the end of 2026, you know, going sell in 27, probably first half of 27, but production towards the end of the year and they will start showing us more details on that truck this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did get one interesting detail last week I was at a dinner, well I was at CES and I was at a dinner with some four executives and you know if you follow the EV space, you know, one of the things that a lot of manufacturers have had issues with is 12-volt batteries dying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That one had no 12-volt battery in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's worth 48 volt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what's going to be in the universal electric vehicle platform as well, the Ford.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So are you for that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you pretty excited by that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've had 48-volt technology around four things like mild hybrids like that e-torque system on the ram for quite some time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the problem is there's still a lot of other systems in the vehicles that are designed to run at 12 volts.
[SPEAKER_00]: All the lights, all the switches.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all the ventilation fans.
[SPEAKER_00]: Computers?
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, designed to run at 12 volts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why you had this mix of 12 and 48 volt architectures on vehicles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what's happened in the last few years is a lot of the suppliers that build those components have started to actually redesign those things to run at 48 volts.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you think it was a little bit catalyst was a cybertruck.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was probably one of the catalysts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and just in general, I think, you know, there's interest from the industry broadly to go to 48 volts because 48 higher voltage, you can make the wires thinner, you can do the amount of copper, you can reduce some of the costs.
[SPEAKER_00]: simple five things and so you're going to see more 48 volt systems in the coming years it's outside that that Ford electric truck is going to be one of the first from the legacy on the board yeah that's I'm actually really happy to hear that because I've studied the cyber truck system you know looking and listening and studying that system and just the amount of power and also like you said weight reduction cost reduction potentials
[SPEAKER_00]: And also the heat pump, right, how it integrates with those climate control systems.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, you know, when they did the lightning, you know, they used a lot of off-the-shelf stuff from Stanford F-150, you know, a lot of the ventilation, heating and ventilation elements, and that added to the costs, and so with this new vehicle, it's being designed really from the ground up as an EV and really being optimized for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a smaller truck, I think will be a much better application for most people for an all that are interested in going electric and want to pick up truck rather than the full size.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so now we've traveled and we're standing in the GMC booth so this is a general motor's area, there's also Chevrolet.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's do a quick, quick run, run down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, in the GMC space, we have the heavy duty truck, light duty, and also you can see prominently a couple of electric CRS, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And don't forget the Corvette CR1X.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we can get a glance at that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's interesting that GM is actually expanding their lineup of electric trucks, because we have an AT4 kind of an off-road model.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a little bit more basic LT model as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they've kind of shifted with the Silverodont Sierra EVs.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've kind of shifted the model line up a little bit, because then in Losh Silverodo EV, you had the work truck and you had this high-end RST model.
[SPEAKER_01]: and they've gotten rid of that and they're letting GMC handle that luxury truck with the Denali and so they've got now you've got the the work truck and with the LT I think or LTC and then the Trellbas and then you know GMC they've also got an AT4 and the Denali and
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you could see it here.
[SPEAKER_00]: They also have the elevation, that's GMC language for kind of a base.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now you've got a little bit less overlap.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're filling in the gaps in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the pricing coming down, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So with smaller batteries, a little bit simpler equipment, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're starting with about 65 grand, maybe with this nation is going to be more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because destinations like we said are growing and growing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, one important thing to keep in mind with general motors,
[SPEAKER_00]: is that in the prices that they advertise they include the destination charge so that's not the door thank you general motors because I've noticed Toyota doesn't do that some others don't do that very well for doesn't do nobody else doesn't yeah that's that's really cool that that this these prices are actually true yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so that's that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is 84x AV edition that you mentioned.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's very tall.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's tall, but you know, for if you want an off-roader, an off-road version, an off-road GM mid-sized truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the top of the line.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would I was talking to case my colleague about this and we really call this guy the rock crawler.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know these trucks any truck will do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You get to a Wrangler from General Motors exactly exactly because it's sitting higher.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's using 35 inch tall tires from the factory.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got the suspension and the locking differentials to back it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because of the 35s, that means they can't mount the spare tire underneath the bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to use up a big chunk of your bed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That tire is heavy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when I had this thing, I had to haul some brush to the township compost site.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I took that thing out of there and tried to lift that thing back in to put it back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're talking about 60s, 70 pounds, maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, at least that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, at least that.
[SPEAKER_00]: In most of visibility, you basically have no visibility on the rear because the rear of your mirror is coming through.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they don't have the digital camera mirror on the canyon, so you don't basically don't see anything out the back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because between the spare tire and the headrest on the other side there, it's basically blocks off the entire rear view.
[SPEAKER_00]: You kind of have to use your side mirrors, kind of like, I don't know what it's commercial.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or just drive like a typical Michigan driver that doesn't use the mirrors anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we won't talk about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's live here so I can say.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, yeah, let's fling around the Coret CX because that's a gorgeous thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: We could check into Chevy, what Chevy's up to.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like you said, so...
[SPEAKER_00]: Detroit, I don't show, but it's a January, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, I mean, it switched to the summer for a couple of years, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But truly, it's like the first show of the season, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, of the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that you say have all the manufacturers here, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, used to be everybody from around the world was here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when Chinese automakers first started coming to North America, this is where they displayed in like 2007, 2008.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now it's just really focused on
[SPEAKER_00]: Detroit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're here.
[SPEAKER_01]: That Corvette ZR1X.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just released a video yesterday.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Quarter mile 8.7 seconds.
[SPEAKER_01]: 8.67 seconds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: At 159 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the 0 to 60 of 1.6 something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 1.6 and then change.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all will drive, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's helping.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's helping.
[SPEAKER_01]: To bind the twin turbo LT5 with the hybrid system from the E-Ray on the front axle.
[SPEAKER_01]: So 1250 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_00]: And really, that's one-six something?
[SPEAKER_00]: Time?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fast for the nanny Tesla plaid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Technically speaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So come back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here, theoretically, you have to ever build the next Tesla Roadster.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's supposed to be faster than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Using rocket booster, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, those still have to actually build that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they announced that Tesla Roadster what years, seven years ago?
[SPEAKER_00]: 2017.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost nine years ago?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I actually used to own the Colorado Trailboss.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I remember.
[SPEAKER_00]: So mine was an interesting color that I actually liked that color.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of people make fun of me for that color.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm a fan of bold colors.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's way too many silver, black, and white, and monochrome shades.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Ford's?
[SPEAKER_00]: We've had some color.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they did.
[SPEAKER_00]: When those fabrics.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is an interesting addition.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a celebrating America USA with 1776, kind of a 250th anniversary of the country.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's got a couple of the sports bar,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not supposed to be more first amount of your lights on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not supposed to be a roll bar So please don't roll your vehicles, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean you don't want to roll your vehicle anyway Regardless, yes, so and then
[SPEAKER_00]: Over there, there's some color over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a trail boss.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we'll try to easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: But once again, there's no Duramax news.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nope, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no news at all from GM here this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think they're also showing, and I'll do a separate video about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're showing their 20-27 bolt.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the bolt is coming back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's one right there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice bright orange.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hey, there's some color.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not much color here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now we've got a transition.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a Toyota.
[SPEAKER_00]: Toyota?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to go to Toyota because we'll mention all of the big three.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Toyota is a humongous menu.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are these?
[SPEAKER_00]: Make most in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are the largest automaker in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they they sell about 10 million vehicles a year Me the so that's not necessarily true.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not the biggest in the US by the echo count.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think there are second
[SPEAKER_01]: Second they're up there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're up there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also not tremendous news, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah No, no news that I'm aware of from Toyota, but they have their tundras and their Tacomas here I want to mention some news As far as sales numbers are concerned, you know I love numbers, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So as we're looking at some of the trucks here They're Tacoma, where is it Tacoma?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a coma where the sales were going through the roof.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, did you notice that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, saw that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it $278,000?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that was the best year ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for Tacoma in the US.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's been the best selling mid-sized pickup in North America for a long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for a lot of good reasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know it's generally been very reliable you know there's some things that some of the competitors do better certainly in terms of cabin space and maybe payload is towing some of the mystics have higher numbers yeah but overall you know they cover a lot of ground with this truck and it's also one of the few or one of the the only ones that's still available with
[SPEAKER_01]: a choice of crew cap or just a regular extended cap and I think you can still get the SR-5 single cap, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it has no, it doesn't have the rear doors, but it's still the mixed-ended cap.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay Yeah, but still, it's an option you can't get from the the tried automates anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, only do crew in the mid-sized.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and also the only new truck
[SPEAKER_00]: available with a manual?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, because they dropped the frontier manual, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Frontier manual is dropped When they're upgraded to the engine the three eight and the gladiator Manual transmission is also discontinued okay, so if you wanted to row your on gears Yeah, the Tacoma for 2021 is six is the one is the only game in town and I wanted to ask you about this because Tacoma has been around
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they used to be called the pickup, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the common name, continuously, has been around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ford kind of walked away from the Ranger market for many years.
[SPEAKER_00]: What was your perspective on that?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Ford had some interesting rationale for just continuing the Ranger in North America in like 2010 and 2011 when they did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which was that, you know, the cost differential to build a Ranger versus an F-150 was pretty small.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Ranger wasn't really getting better fuel economy than an F-150 at the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it didn't, you know, for a lot of customers, it didn't necessarily make sense to buy a Range Rover in F-150.
[SPEAKER_01]: But as the price of F-150s kept climbing and climbing, climbing through the 2010s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then they had to rethink that and said, okay, we need a more affordable offering.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they brought back the Ranger to North America plus, you know, there was obviously some demand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Toyota was selling a ton of these, Nissan was selling it in front of the front here, GM had brought back the Canyon and Colorado and we're doing well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Ford brought back the Ranger.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, to give a price point below where F-150 was, is F-150, you know, climbed into the 50,000s and up price range.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then, Ranger fit into that mid-30s to 50,000 dollar range, and then they brought in the Maverick at the bottom end of the range.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but isn't it true because I started really, I mean, I was always an enthusiast, but I entered the industry in about 2011, the Ranger was one, the best seller, what in the 90s and early 2000s.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it sold out sold Tacoma, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was kind of a bummering, my mind, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, for didn't update it for a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they decided to fail.
[SPEAKER_01]: It got, it got stale.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then as the market shifted from the more compact to the mid-size trucks, they didn't really update the ranger to fit that market.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so eventually they just discontinued it entirely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, but they kept, they discontinued North America.
[SPEAKER_01]: They kept it globally.
[SPEAKER_01]: The rest of the world got a new generation mid-sized Ranger, which eventually we got here as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to mention, you mentioned, you know, the overall size of the vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure how big your garage here is in Michigan.
[SPEAKER_00]: My Colorado garage at my house.
[SPEAKER_00]: is about 19 feet long, so an F-150 usually doesn't fit, lengthwise, and sometimes height and that's another consideration height of the challenge too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if they want to park their trucks inside the garage, flying a full size, in most places you can't do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the heavy duty, forget about it, there's a barato over there, it's towering over most things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well my garage, I can fit and it's a truck in there, but my garage door is only 7 feet high.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I cannot put one of those in there, even if it was long enough, it's too tall to fit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this Tacoma has a rack here, by the way, it says Toyota on it, so they're kind of expanding their accessories.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not quite seven feet, but this is getting close to what some of the heights requirements are, or maybe even garages, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: parking garages around around the city.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's why I was looking at the sales data for mid-sizeders, they're growing the entire market.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they grew 20% year over year for all of the mid-sizeders come on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and as the full size trucks get more and more expensive, consumers are looking at what can they afford, and what can these trucks actually deliver what they did, what they want in a truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for what most people are using a truck for,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, going out and going to their big box store and buying 15 or 20 bags of mulch, you can put those in the back of a Tacoma or other midsettlement.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or a Maverick?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or a Maverick for that matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maverick?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or even a Hyundai Santa Cruz?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you a surprise?
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had 15 bags of mulch in the back of Santa Cruz.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you surprised that like Toyota and many other manufacturers are not competing with the Maverick?
[SPEAKER_01]: I am, you know, I'm surprised that there hasn't been more movement in that smaller compact space.
[SPEAKER_01]: Toyota is working on the Stout, although from what I'm hearing, that program got pushed back a couple of years, so it may be closer to 2030 before we see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I do expect to see at some point over the next several years, at least one or two more compact.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's a lot of expertise in this area, because every manufacturer has, I mean, there's a Corolla Cross, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they all have small view of the chassis.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Maverick and the Santa Cruz are both based on compact crossover platforms, and so you got Corolla Cross, you got RAV4, either of those could potentially be, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: a Mavra candidate for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you have Honda with a lot of strength in that area too, and many others, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Honda could do something below the ridge line, you know, based on the CRV or HRV.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually really hoping, and I think, I don't know if you, I was listening to your podcast, Will Berings podcast, I'm really hoping that, because the pilot has been refreshed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really hoping they do that refresh to the ridge line.
[SPEAKER_00]: Plugin hybrid tech, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Not the E-RF, but plug-in hybrid tech coming to Hondas, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I was in Japan in October, October, for Japan mobility show with Honda and it took us to the Chiggy proving grounds and they showed us their next generation hybrid and their larger vehicle platforms and so we
[SPEAKER_01]: There will be next generation of the pilot and the rich line and the Odyssey coming off of this platform and actually probably the new RDX that Honda just announced next generation RDX that's coming in the next couple of years and so that will probably be on that same architecture.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I definitely expect an all new ridge line based off that platform and perhaps even something smaller.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that would be really exciting because people a lot of people forget that the ridge line is there, but it's continued since 06, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's been around a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost 20 years of ridge line.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it doesn't sell in the kind of numbers of the domestic trucks, but then again because it's based on that same architecture with the Odyssey and the pilot and they're built on the same assembly lines, the incremental costs for Honda is not enormous, so it makes sense for them to continue building it if they're selling 35, 40,000 a year which is what they've been doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: found and grabbed and bought a 2008 ride with about 200,000 miles on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost $195,000 in this and I just drove it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a video about it and it's really solid.
[SPEAKER_00]: After $195,000, that's not a truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's a Cadillac formula.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it'll haul.
[SPEAKER_00]: It will haul something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not mulch.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, but this will, yeah, a Hummer EV will haul some mulch.
[SPEAKER_01]: It will, it will absolutely will.
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody in my neighborhood last fall or last summer actually, they had a Tesla Model Y and they got rid of it and got one of these instead.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is what we're looking at here is the Hummer EV pickup truck 3X is a 3 motor system, which is a most powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a carbon addition because you need to lightweight the Hummer, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, when I first had one, I took it to the way scales, it was 9200 pounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you guys, because you put the larger tires on there, here's more, like 9300 times, or maybe a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm making a little bit of a joke of this, but there's carbon fiber actual genuine pieces of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you need in a 9,000 pound Afro truck, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But also the wheels.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was talking to some engineers, you could take maybe a close at the wheels.
[SPEAKER_00]: The wheels is actually kind of make sense because you're removing unsprung mass and also there were telling me a side effect that they found was the carbon wheel makes a little bit less noise as it goes over large events like pot holes or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So which is important in electric vehicle because you don't want to hear some the noises coming from other components.
[SPEAKER_01]: on the other hand, you know, if you're going off road and you hit some rocks with those wheels and that's ratchet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's going to get very expensive.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know how much one of these would be cost, but I don't want to find out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Many thousand probably about six or seven thousand dollars each.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, well, if you could afford a hundred twenty thousand dollar
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't hope so.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not for you and I.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little out of my price range.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's still, you guys don't pay me enough to help with these videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think we're paying you anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: My point is that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as we wrap up, there's a lot of indoor driving here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's actually combustion engines running around here too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: So not just electric, so don't bring too hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you could check out, I mean, there is good ventilation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, I mean, it's a big, it's a big, yeah, I'm not worried about that, but we have different brand new vehicles that you couldn't take rides in.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also there is an overland area.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you check out the overland area?
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see that, it's in the corner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: as we're kind of heading back, so Ford also had some news with RTR.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, RTR and I want to ask you about this if that's also not a trend.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we talked about kind of lowered vehicles, lowered pickup trucks becoming a little bit of a trend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also a trend of taking an aftermarket company like RTR that you see here with the Mustangs and the Broncos and actually folding it into the factory.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean this is actually a trend that goes back to at least the 1960s When when Ford first teamed up with Carol Shelby in the 1960s on the Mustang the first few years The original GT350s were built at Shelby American facility, California
[SPEAKER_01]: They would ship cars from the Ford assembly plant to Shelby pre-title.
[SPEAKER_01]: They would do the modifications, turn them into a GT350 and later GT500, and then send them to the dealers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then eventually Ford started building those in their own right on their own assembly lines, based on the designs and everything from Shelby.
[SPEAKER_01]: that's pretty much what's happening right now with RTR.
[SPEAKER_01]: They started off having RTR taking pre-title cars, Mustangs and Broncos from Ford, and of course, you know, Celine has done that for decades and others.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's Rausch, and many of them are in part of companies.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, but the cost of doing that is a much higher than building in the factory.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: RTR is still offering their spec series, Broncos and Mustangs, so if you want something really specific, you can go to RTR and they will order the vehicle from the factory, they will modify it, upfit it with their stuff and then send it to your dealer for you to purchase, but now for the Bronco for 2027.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're doing the RTR versions right in the Michigan assembly plant not far from here about 10 miles from here Speaking of which this is a great segue.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have been planned that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's okay Those are the best kind of segways, but the second way is to follow the segue is that AV American Expedition vehicle is the first party and Yeah, they're doing a for it, but this bison that what underpins
[SPEAKER_00]: this heavy-duty somerado and this colorado that's done at the GM factory also they're doing it so the bumpers the bumpers the skit plates yeah some of the other components are getting get shipped from the GM factory and they get put on actually at the factory for the GM trucks okay that's not happening with ram or for the
[SPEAKER_00]: But now they also have the Ford FXL package on only 40s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: How would it be worth it to do with anything else?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: But actually, it doesn't look, it looks proportional actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I'm going to have to show this to my neighbor because my neighbor has been building his own overlining ring.
[SPEAKER_01]: He brought a couple years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: He bought an F550 chassis cap and he got a Boeing bed, put on it, and he's got a camper,
[SPEAKER_01]: there's a camper here as well yeah he installed a liquid spring suspension in it and he put some 35s on it it's a you know it's a huge yeah very huge yeah it looks yeah they look so cute but he you know he was he was concerned about going bigger than that just because of the clearance you know because then he would have to start cutting up the front front fenders yeah but
[SPEAKER_01]: Clearly, it's possible to put forties on that truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll show it to Mark and you know, he may want to do it Well, there's a day they've heard an CEO of American exhibition vehicles is right there I actually had an interview with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have a different separate video on T.A.
[SPEAKER_00]: Alta Alta And he walked me through every inch of this for it Did they have to cut up the fenders to not a lot?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: According to him they did build
[SPEAKER_00]: They did build special, very, very strong fender flares, you could knock it actually, it's actually built like a tube, like a shape tube, so it has some strength in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this truck does sit, it has a foreign suspension lift, and the tire, because it's such a big tire, adds another about three inches.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're talking about seven inches of additional height, and I'm not a small dude, and I'm standing next to this truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he said, not a lot of cutting was involved, so it's almost like Ford's.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think one of the things also kept my neighbor using the 35's instead of going larger than that was the height when he puts the camper on because with the camper it's almost 13 feet tall and so when he first went together he had He was concerned about going under some of the overpasses
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but but not just overpasses, but also to get in and out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because the camper, if it's sitting, I don't know, five feet off the ground.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to have like a staircase.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just like to like this right here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you have to so this is, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a truckhouse, that's the name of the body builder for the camper, and you can see there's a four-step staircase, and there's a little bit of space even though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Marks, I think has two or three steps to get up and do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, so that's, and now, kind of, AV,
[SPEAKER_00]: they're having a lot better integration and partnering with truckhouse basically they're partnering together so the integration is a lot more close so you can actually buy this so maybe a.v.
[SPEAKER_00]: tunes suspension and everything and the chassis accommodate the weight exactly the camper and the capability and you can see even the protection underneath so it's all tied in together so that's quite interesting
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we, I think we most walked most of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, there's more than I actually thought when we first walked in here this morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I hadn't even noticed all this back here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and also, don't tell anybody, there's also U.S. Army in the corner here, and they have a couple of light vehicles that you can check out too, and I heard the rumor...
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I don't know if you heard about this tomorrow that there's a new concept Abrams tank.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard that they were going to be showing something.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I heard the rumor that there might be a tank coming out at the show as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not on the floor, because I think it's more than 60 ton tank.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this floor with crumble.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but what doesn't crumble is when you have a light tactical vehicle like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is actually a colorado.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a shabby colorado.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not by GM Defense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so if you want to see some of these vehicles, just here's a little glimpse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look how simple it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what I noticed?
[SPEAKER_00]: The seats heated and the steering wheel, everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: But where are the gauges?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you need to know.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you need to know, if you're driving over desert terrain, it's probably not that important.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, it's all about, I'm not a member of the military, but I think it's just as slow as necessary or as fast as necessary, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It depends what you're running from or running to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, so we could interview some of the specialists here, but I'm guessing you don't need to know a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: More seats in the back, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've got eight seats all together?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, five.
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot plus four nine nine yeah this is like a minivan yeah about other than the minivan yeah minivan's all he'll say all right so I'm really appreciate it oh yeah all by you lunch okay okay thanks I appreciate it thank you for joining us we'll see you next time