The Bachelorette: How Rachel Lindsay Rose to the Occasion

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Speaker 1: I was that person who was like, no, I have to be with somebody who's black, because nobody can understand me like a black man can understand me. And I still believe that that's true in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: So that's what I had to have.

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Speaker 1: And I did that my entire all the way up until I was in my thirties, and then right at the beginning of my thirties, and then I was just like when I came out of this five year relationship where I just thought, this is it, this is over. I'm spending the rest of my life with this person.

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Speaker 2: And then it didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: I thought, I am cutting myself out to so many people.

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Speaker 2: Someone who I might connect.

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Speaker 1: With spiritually, I might vibe with, might give me every single thing I want, but they might not look the way that I think they're supposed to.

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Speaker 2: To be with me.

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Speaker 3: Stay tuned, we'll get into my conversation with Rachel Lindsey right after these quick ads.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Reality with the King.

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Speaker 3: It's me Carlos King, the King of Reality TV and one of the most sought after executive producers in reality television.

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Speaker 4: With over ten years of production experience.

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Speaker 3: I've executive produced top rated programs such as eight seasons of the Real Housepots of Atlanta. Additionally, I have created shows such as Netflix Is Stylling, Hollywood Owns number one rated Love and Marriage Franchise, and TV one's Hollywood.

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Speaker 4: Divas, just to name a few.

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Speaker 3: Twice a week on Reality with the King, we'll sit down with my friends across the entertainment industry, recap our favorite reality shows and revisit unforgettable moments that we are still talking and tweeting about. Hey, rain drops. So today's guest on Reality with the King is the first black bachelorette, the beautifully talented Rachel Lindsay. So let me tell you all the story. Yes, I love Housewives, I love Loving Marriage, Bell Collective, all the shows, right, But I'm low key a big bachelor and bachelorette fan. So when Rachel Lindsay was cast as the first black bachelorette, I of course had to watch and support my good sister, right, But over the course of the season, I low key tuned out and I'm in two not because of Rachel. I tuned out because it was hard for me to believe that all of these men were the right one for her. But I wanted to invite her on the podcast, not only because she made history as the first black bachelorette, but I also wanted to know about her experience being the first black bachelorette. And what came out of this conversation is so juicy. I had no idea that Rachel received so many hate mail from the Bachelor nation, who felt that she disrupted their favorite show. In addition to that, Rachel and I have a deep conversation on black women finding love and choosing outside of your race who to love and when you do that, what does the black audience say about you. Lastly, we talk about the microaggressions she felt on set, not only by the cast but also the producers, who baby this one is good. Without further ado, here is my conversation with Rachel Lindsay being the first black bachelorette. What was that experience like for you? Because as a black man who is the king of reality TV, I know all too well what being on television is about what that feels like for reality stars. Obviously, my shows are like ensemble casts. You get to hang out with.

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Speaker 4: Your friends and cocktails and you know.

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Speaker 3: Throchete, whereas on the Bachelorette. You are at the epicenter, it's your show with a seampul of hot guys. But tell me about that experience and what it was like being a black woman. You know, did you feel the pressures to represent for our community?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's so weird. It was kind of an ebbs and flow when it came to representation.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I always.

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Speaker 1: Feel it just because first I am black, I am a woman, And that was my motivation for saying yes to being the Bachelorette, because originally I was like, no, I'm going to lose my career, my reputation is going to be questioned. I just don't know if I want to go through all of this again. But it was someone telling me who had watched the show before, So the show didn't mean to me what it meant to so many people who'd been fans.

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Speaker 2: Of it for such a long time.

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Speaker 1: And I also think that helped me navigate it because I didn't have the.

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Speaker 2: Same connection to the show like other people.

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Speaker 1: But it was someone who had seen it before, I mean, who had been watching it for years. Say, my daughter is so excited to see herself represented on the show, because she knew I went far on The Bachelor from the spoilers, and I said, you know what, that's the type of person I want to do this show for. Because I'm not a fan of it, but how many other people are who are just waiting to see themselves represented on this platform, on this show.

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Speaker 2: That was my sole purpose for doing it. I thought, if I fell in love, I fall in love. It is what it is.

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Speaker 1: That's the sense of responsibility I felt was to represent myself well as a black woman. And that's all I as I guess as big as I looked at it, and then as it got closer and I saw the reaction from people like, oh my gosh, it's the first and it was everywhere, and my stylis said, hey, the Hollywood reporter picked it up, and I said, what's the Hollywood Reporter?

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Speaker 2: It let me know how green I was.

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Speaker 1: I'm serious, how green I was coming into this world and I start to have a panic attack, And then once I came through, I just realized, Okay, this is bigger than you.

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Speaker 2: You're doing this for the culture.

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Speaker 1: And so I did feel that pressure, but I knew that the type of black man that I have dated before coming on the show would never come on the show.

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Speaker 4: What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Sis, It's hard to it's hard to explain.

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Speaker 4: No explained to me. I date black man too, so I get it.

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Speaker 3: So is it like, because you know, there's different types of black men and don't read me, I'm gay dub, but I know black man.

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Speaker 4: I am one.

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Speaker 3: So when you say that, is it a black man who's a little.

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Speaker 4: Thuggush ruggish ball.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, because I always tell people there's two types of black men. There's the Wayne Brady's and then there's the little Waynes So which one do y'all want?

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Speaker 4: Sis?

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Speaker 1: If that is the spectrum the spectrum, then mine leans a little bit more on the Wayne side.

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Speaker 4: So my way Brady or little Wayne.

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Speaker 2: Shoot, they are both Wayne little Wayne look away.

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Speaker 1: And I say that, and this is no shade to the guys that the black men that were on my season.

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Speaker 2: But those guys would never come on a reality show.

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Speaker 1: They're very private and probably private for the wrong reasons. They ain't trying to get caught up and have their business out there, because if you read my book, you know the loose the type of the man that I was dating.

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Speaker 2: So that's more of what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I'm not taking away from anybody's blackness because I think he can be interpreted that way. I'm specifically talking about the type of men that I dated prior to coming on the show. So I had reason with myself that it is very possible that if you fall in love, he may not be black.

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Speaker 2: I also had.

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Speaker 1: Reasoned that people are meeting me for the very first time they met me on The Bachelor it was a white guy whose season it was, then if I choose somebody else who's not white, everyone's gonna be like system like black men, which could.

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Speaker 2: Be the farthest thing from the truth.

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Speaker 1: That's the first time I had really dated somebody, and I say that on the Bachelor, I never brought someone home there wasn't black. So I had kind of gotten that all out of my head, or I reasoned with that in my head before I went on the season. And then I was like, you know what only pressure I feel is to make sure I'm representing my family right, representing who I am as a black woman right, and everybody else can miss me with the you should have picked this person she don't like black man.

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Speaker 2: All of that. I'll deal with that on the back.

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Speaker 3: End later no, listen, you were so authentic on that show. And what I loved about you being on that show is you were so much of a breath of fresh air, you know, like you were just you.

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Speaker 4: And again, as somebody who produces reality television, I know when.

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Speaker 3: Someone is playing up to the camera, and I thought that you never did that. You were like, look, I'm Rachel, I'm a little wacky, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: I'm a little serious, I'm funny.

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Speaker 3: You had all of these great sort of like attributes that really told the fullness of who you were as a woman. Thank you, and obviously you know you found love of congratulations with that.

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Speaker 4: You guys are like still together.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we've been We've been together for five years, we've been married for two and a half years. We live in LA we just got a home together. Yeah, no, we're this is this is the real thing. And who would have known when I tell you, I had to convince my parents that this was real, because even when I left them, I was like, don't worry you guys, this is this is for you know, us representation. So they didn't understand that I really did fall in love. They thought I was still playing a part. It wasn't until after the.

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Speaker 2: Show was over.

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Speaker 1: We were completely done, and I was like, hey, I'm taking Brian to Houston to meet the rest of the family. And my Mom's like, oh, we're the camera's coming. I'm like, no, we are in real life. Now, this is it. So it really was a shock to my entire family and they had to reason with no, like, we have to trust Rachel. She really did fall in love. She is truly engaged and we'll see, we'll see where it goes. And they love Brian and they love we vacation together as both of our families together all that, so it's it's the real deal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So let me ask you this, when it comes to a blacklack woman, an educated black woman, you know at that I've always been told that it's very hard for a black woman to find love. And when people look at black women in high positions, from Kamala Harris to our new.

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court appointee.

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Speaker 3: Josh Brown, yes, Serena Williams, they have noticed that these women are with white men.

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Speaker 4: What advice would you give.

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Speaker 3: The sisters, Because I'm going to say this on the record, I have told my black female friends, you need to date outside your race, because I think you're trying so hard to make fetch happen that you need to expand your horizon and listen, I'm all about black love too, child, but listen, look at me and you and look at the black community.

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Speaker 4: You know, we're all different colors and shades.

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Speaker 3: Obviously there's been some milk in people's magnesium, right, So is it something to where you know when it comes to black women dating, Like, do you feel like black women should start opening their eyes to dating people outside their race because you just never know?

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Speaker 1: Yes, Because that's my story and that's why in my book, it was so important for me for people to see my life plan at different stages because it was black black black black, and I've taught.

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Speaker 2: I've been very vocal about this.

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Speaker 1: I was that person who was like, no, I have to be with somebody who's black, because nobody can understand me like a black man can understand me. And I still believe that that's true in a lot of ways. So that's what I had to have, and I did that my entire all the way up until I was in my thirties, and then right at the beginning of my thirties, and then I was just like when I came out of this five year relationship.

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Speaker 2: Where I just thought, this is it, this is over. I'm spending the.

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Speaker 1: Rest of my life with this person. And then it didn't happen. I thought, I am cutting myself out to so many people. Someone who I might connect with spiritually, I might vibe with, might give me every single thing I want.

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Speaker 2: But they might not look the way that I think they're supposed to be with me. I said, I'm just gonna be free. I'm just gonna open myself up to whoever. I'm gonna connect with whoever.

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Speaker 1: And once I did that, that was like a really freeing moment for me. I didn't I tore up the list that I had.

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Speaker 2: I had a real list, tore it up and said, it's.

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Speaker 1: Just whoever I vibe with, and I'm just going to go from there. And I encourage people to do that. If you have a list, throw it away. If there's certain there should be certain things that you're not going to compromise on, hold on to those.

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Speaker 2: Those are your morals, those are your values.

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Speaker 1: But when it comes to some of the superficial stuff, like I had to have a black man, I had to have an omega man.

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Speaker 2: He had to be a certain type.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm Adelta shout out to Delta Signatator Sorority Branded.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I did. I want to.

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Speaker 1: I wanted all of that and then I just started letting that go. And if I hadn't done that, I never would have been ready for Brian, who is every single thing that I would want in a man, but the one thing that I thought I had to have was him being black.

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Speaker 2: Brian's not.

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Speaker 1: And I'm more in love than I've ever been before. So I would just tell people, don't just be open right, don't neglect. I can't stand people who are like I only date this, but be open to it.

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Speaker 2: You never know. You might be surprised. And I bet if you asked.

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Speaker 1: Every single one of those women black women that you name who are either married or dating someone outside of their race, they were beautifully surprised.

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Speaker 2: They weren't expecting it.

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Speaker 3: Stay tuned for more of my conversation with Rachel.

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Speaker 4: We'll be right back. Have to be quick, ads.

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Speaker 3: This is reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King. Let's get back into my conversation with Rachel. One thing about you is you're so honest and That's why I said earlier, your breath of fresh Air. So you have a new book call miss Me with that yes, which I love that title.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: And in the book you talk about you wanted to get on the Bachelorette to make change, but the moment you were there, you realize you were their token.

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Speaker 4: What did you mean by that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So I really I knew why I was motivated to say yes to be the.

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Speaker 2: Bachelorette, and I guess I.

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Speaker 1: Was naive and thinking that they wanted it solely for that reason too, which was to represent in a way or for people who hadn't seen someone who looks like me in this role to know it's okay, you can tell our love stories too.

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Speaker 2: We know how to find love.

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Speaker 1: Black women can be adored and appreciated, and hopefully it paves the way for other people in them, not just black, but in the bipod community to have their stories told. It shouldn't stop with me.

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Speaker 2: I thought we were on that same page. As I started.

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Speaker 1: To navigate the journey and this whole Bachelor franchise, specifically as the Bachelorette, I realized that I was just checking something off their box.

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Speaker 2: I realized that.

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Speaker 1: They just wanted to say, hey, we did it. Okay, let's go back to what's worked before. And that's shown in the fact that I was the bachelrette in twenty seventeen. It took three years, and that year that it did change was twenty twenty. It took three years for them to bring another person of color into that role at that and it was the first time it was a black man to be the bachelor, and twenty twenty, we all know what happened. So that was just a response to what was happening in society rather than them actually wanting.

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Speaker 2: To make change.

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Speaker 1: And so for me, it made me realize, Okay, they want to be able to say they did it. They also picked me because that audience could understand, Oh, we can get why she's the first one. That's what I also mean by token on paper, It's like she's an attorney, her dad's a federal judge. She's done this, she's done that. So it's like, Okay, we get her, we get why you want her to be the first as if I'm different or I'm an anomaly, when you had plenty of black contestants that have come on the show.

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Speaker 2: And so that is what I mean by the token too.

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Speaker 1: It had to be the right person to come along, because there have been plenty of qualified black contestants that can.

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Speaker 2: Do this role as the bachelor or bachelorette.

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Speaker 1: And when you compare it to the white counterparts that had come before me, they weren't put through some rigorous tests. They didn't have to check off certain boxes. Some of them weren't employed, some of them were living at home, so you know, but I had to be damn near perfect to come along. I mean they have from what I'm told. When I went to my audition, they already had flagged me she could be the one because of what I look like on paper.

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Speaker 3: No, what's interesting is my podcast first episode was with Ebony K. Williams, who is the first black woman to be on the Real Housewives of New York City. And from your conversation with me, y'all stories parallel.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you know her or watch the.

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Speaker 3: Show, it's very parallel in the sense of the type of black women that are chosen to be the first. You know, listen, there's a certain scan tone that I'm noticing, there's a certain team, Like you said background, you know what I mean, you talk about your father being a judge.

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Speaker 4: Ebony is an attorney. You know, she went to law school.

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Speaker 1: All.

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Speaker 3: What's also interesting is this sort of call to action saying, okay, we did it, leave us alone. And that's something that she and I talked about. And I'm noticing some parallels with you and the Bachelor franchise, because again, I watched the first season twenty years ago with Tristan Ryan. Like, I've always been a fan of the show, and I was eighteen years old at the time. Black people want love, they desire love. So the fact that they thought twenty years later, let's do it. But what was also interesting is I was told.

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Speaker 4: And I want to know if you were also told this.

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Speaker 3: I was told that when you became the first black bachelorette, they said, oh, the ratings are down, and see that's why we don't do this.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear that too, Yeah, it was something along the lines of my ratings were lower than the bachelorettes before me, and it was now I will give credit to the creator of the show, because the creator of the show, said Mike Flie, he was quoted as saying, Rachel's this, this, and this, She's all the things that an ideal.

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Speaker 2: Bachelorette is supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: And it seems to me that our audience, in a trumpish kind of way, didn't.

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Speaker 2: Want to watch her.

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Speaker 1: He said that as New York Times, New York Posts something like that, So I.

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Speaker 2: Appreciated that he called out the audience. Now, again, the show is a business, so you.

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Speaker 1: Might have called them out and in that notion, but at the same time, you continue to give them what they wanted because you got a business at the end of the day. So they definitely would would say that. I would hear rumblings of that of like, oh, your season was lower, But then what they always forget to say is so was the bachelorette right after me who was white. Her ratings were lower than mine, And then the next one's lower, and the next one, and the.

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Speaker 2: Next one in the next one.

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Speaker 1: So it's just kind of a sign of the times when it comes to television more than it is just for me being a black bachelorette.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and one of the things you read about in your book that I want to talk about is the microaggressions you've experienced. There's this scene with Vanessa from the show, and you said something along the lines of As the numbers dwindled, our issues became so obvious, the producer said, you need to talk it out. They staged a scene. I was sitting down pretending to read a book. Vanessa came over and said, Hey, can I talk to you.

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Speaker 4: I look back and see how that setup made her look like the bigger person.

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Speaker 3: The first thing she said to me was, I feel like you bullied me in the house. Immediately, I felt my blackness was on display. I knew the audience was going to look at me as an angry black female.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that I am a person who's like, if I don't mess.

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Speaker 2: With you, I don't mess with you. And that's what I mean.

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Speaker 1: As the numbers start to go down, it became very obvious. You know, we started getting less and less women.

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Speaker 2: People were getting sent home.

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Speaker 1: It became obvious who messed with who on the show. And I didn't have an issue with Vanessa. I just saw her behavior in the house with certain things, and I was like, I don't really want that energy. You're not gonna be best friends with anyone.

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Speaker 2: It's fine. This was at the time.

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Speaker 1: We're totally cool now, and so I just didn't want to be around her, but she.

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Speaker 2: Kept making it an issue.

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Speaker 1: I guess telling producers, you know, I want to talk to Rachel.

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Speaker 2: Rachel doesn't like me. They were like, Rachel doesn't have an issue with you.

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Speaker 1: She was also going and telling Nick that I was ostracizing her in the household. So it's like she was trying to eliminate her competition at that point, which happens to people. The atmosphere doesn't necessarily always bring out the.

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Speaker 2: Best in people.

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Speaker 1: So it's funny, how you know, I say, in that moment, I real that I knew. I always knew my blackness was on display, but it wasn't until later that I was detached that I realized they made her look like the bigger person because they came to me and they were like, hey, we're going to have you Vanessa talk. You know you read here, She'll come get you. But it was later that I said, oh, she already looks better because she is trying to fix whatever the situation is.

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Speaker 2: Where I was never given the opportunity to do that. But yes, she.

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Speaker 1: Immediately calls me a bully, and I just remember saying how I asked her the question. That's a really strong word how am I a bully? She would give out examples like you didn't look at me when we were all in the circle talking, I mean.

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Speaker 2: Like really silly like that.

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Speaker 1: And so I just gave her examples of things that I had seen in the house, which is why we weren't close, and I said, that's really my issue, it's nothing personal. But she was crying, she was screaming, and I remember sitting there and I was just kind of like I had to sit there and not react. And when it was over, I was livid, and of course, like they're running behind me like cameras trying to get a reaction, and they're like, why don't you come in an im and talk about it? And I was mad because and I remember saying, I am going to look so bad.

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Speaker 2: She called me a bully.

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Speaker 1: You don't understand how triggering those words are and how that is going to affect me in front of this white audience is going to be watching me.

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Speaker 2: That's all they're going to see is that I'm a bully.

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Speaker 1: Coming from her, She'll get the benefit of the doubt and I won't. And I had just come off this being at this kind of restaurant bar that doctor Martin Luther King Junior had been at so I was really in my feelings of walking in the same places that he had been, and then I had to be subjected to this. So I was talking about all this in the ITM and then the producer basically said to me, we're not going to air it. And at the time, I thought, oh my gosh, they're really looking out for me. They really understand because he said, there's no way that you're going to come off looking good, and I thought, wow, they get me Again. When you're removed from it, you realize it's a little bit more to the story. It wasn't just that they were looking out for me. They were looking out for their next lead. There is no way an audience would accept me if that aired. I would be a bully, So why are you letting this bully become the next bachelorette. So it was more so them looking out and protecting who they were going to make as their first black lead than it was about truly caring how that audience viewed me. Because later on during my finale, when I told Peter that I was living my best life, they had Chris Harrison come back after commercial and tell me, I seemed angry when I hadn't.

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Speaker 2: Raised my voice or said a curse word or anything.

00:23:34
Speaker 1: And then they fed Peter the line of saying, well, I feel like you attacked me. So they really did not care how I looked in front of an audience that was to protect their asset.

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Speaker 2: I was their asset at that moment. So those are things that I realized as I detached.

00:23:49
Speaker 1: Myself from the franchise. There's always an ulterior motive. It's not really that they care for at least in my circumstances.

00:23:56
Speaker 2: They didn't really care. They're motivated by protecting this franchise.

00:24:01
Speaker 3: No, no, listen, the Bachelor is a huge franchise. And not only is it huge, you know how Beyonce has her behive and Nicki Minaj has her barbs girl, that Bachelor Nation the Bachelor behive is severe up in here, stangs. Did the Bachelor Nation support you or did they sting you in the comments like the Beehive does if you attack Beyonce yourself those cards.

00:24:31
Speaker 2: I'm actually surprised.

00:24:32
Speaker 1: I'm still not inflamed right now from all the stinging that I've received from bachlorination.

00:24:37
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Now, granted, there's two sides to it.

00:24:41
Speaker 1: I say, there's the clan, there's the Bachelor Clan, and then there's Bachelor Nation.

00:24:45
Speaker 4: Wait, clan with a.

00:24:46
Speaker 1: C ork with a K with a K, there's a Bachelor Klan with a K, and there's Bachelor Nation. And I've received a lot of support for Bachlination. I mean, even having left it because it was just too toxic for me, a lot of people still support and I appreciate that. And then there's a sector which is honestly who I blame the franchise for empowering because they've constantly given them the product that they've wanted over the last twenty years, and now want to question why they have such a visceral response from certain sectors of their audience because you've created this, You've given them exactly what they wanted, and now you're trying to change it up and you're really seeing how toxic and really tragic certain areas of Bachelor Nation are. I mean, you can go on any day on a Facebook or something and see there are legitimate groups that hate me. They blame me for Chris Harrison's departure, they blame me for breaking up my former co host's relationship with her fiance. They blame me for not having grace and understanding when a former leads at the N word, you know, like everything is my fault. I'm evil, I'm manipulative, I'm a It's just I'm never given. And I really discussed this in my book. I talk about how.

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Speaker 2: I'm never given any kind of.

00:26:11
Speaker 1: Grace as to or understanding when it comes to a situation. It must have been something Rachel did. It must be her fault. Oh that happened because Rachel did this. And it's wild how the thinking and the logic is, or I should say it's not really logic when it comes to how fascination thinks.

00:26:29
Speaker 2: But I've just become accustomed to it at this point.

00:26:33
Speaker 4: That is sad.

00:26:34
Speaker 3: And listen, I am a former Real Housewives producer.

00:26:38
Speaker 4: And one thing about the housewife fans. They are hard juddy. They're a hype in itself.

00:26:45
Speaker 3: And listen, I love my Housewives fans because they ride for me, they support me.

00:26:50
Speaker 4: I love the good ones. But there is a.

00:26:52
Speaker 3: Small fraction of housewife fans that makes it not fun to talk about housewives or to wash the shell because they take it so seriously. Yeah, it's and I kind of gathered that when it came to the Bachelor Nation because it's like, guys, this is unscripted, like we're living our best life.

00:27:10
Speaker 4: At least we're trying to.

00:27:12
Speaker 3: And we appreciate the fans, We appreciate the support, but damn, I don't need a cross burning steak at.

00:27:17
Speaker 4: My front lawn because you don't like what.

00:27:20
Speaker 3: I'm representing for this community because you haven't seen it yet. And that's awful that you had to experience that. And I mean, I'm blown away. And I'm also blown away because the fact that they're blaming you for Chris Harrison's firing. So to give my audience a backstory, because a lot of these guys are housewife fans and they're like Carlos was tsis so long story short. Chris Harrison was the Andy Cohen of The Bachelor, right, Chris Harrison was the Andy Cohen.

00:27:54
Speaker 4: Yes, for The Bachelor and The Bachelorette.

00:27:57
Speaker 3: He was the host, he was the MC, he was the mister of Ceremony, if you will, And he made a comment when they brought up an issue of race regarding the first black male bachelor named Matt James. There was a woman on the show named Rachel, a white woman, and there was photos that were leaked on her at a party.

00:28:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, an ante bellum party.

00:28:22
Speaker 4: Wearing the costumes. And you know, listen, I'll have time to give out history lesson. Go read a book.

00:28:28
Speaker 3: But obviously there was Rachel undertones with that, and Chris Harrison made a comment. I'm not going to quote him and I'm going to paraphrase it, but he made a comment in regards to supporting Rachel and giving her pass for what she was doing.

00:28:44
Speaker 4: And you were outspoken about that.

00:28:46
Speaker 3: And people are saying because Rachel, Lindsey was outspoken, meaning giving her opinion on something that everybody in the world was asked about her comment of saying how bad it was that he did that to support Rachel. It made him get fired from ABC.

00:29:05
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:29:06
Speaker 1: And what's even more wild is I was doing it in the confines of my job.

00:29:13
Speaker 2: I was on the job.

00:29:14
Speaker 1: It's my job description to ask relevant questions, and the most relevant topic at that time were these photographs. Because it was rumored that white Rachel was the front runner, and so you have your first black Bachelor and the rumored front runner is taking these old South ante Bellum parties, dressed up like she's Scarlett O'Hara from Gone with the Win, and so it just it was very jarring and it was just very surprising.

00:29:42
Speaker 2: So of course I asked.

00:29:43
Speaker 1: Him, thinking he's going to give me the PC answer, Seeing how he has been the host of this franchise since its inception nineteen years he knows more about how to give the PC answer and media training than anybody, And so I asked a question and he just decided he had time that day and instead he just went off about why we should be giving her grace, that what she's doing is just what one of fifty thousand people do in the South and kids go to these type of parties all the time, and is it a problem now or was it not a problem in twenty eighteen, you know, like that kind of thing. And my response was, well, it's always been a problem. I mean, what would I represent if I went to that party? If I go to an old South party? You go to an old South party, Carlos, who we dressing up?

00:30:32
Speaker 2: Ass? Who were gonna roleplay ass?

00:30:34
Speaker 1: So that was my point of why it's wrong and what it represents, your glorifying a time where we were enslaved, I mean, why are we celebrating this?

00:30:43
Speaker 2: And his response was, well, who are.

00:30:45
Speaker 1: You, Rachel to judge and he said that to me, who are you? I mean, he said, who the hell are you? Who is Rachel lindsay, I'm a black woman who's offended by the very things that you're talking about, And it was it was such a for your audience who doesn't watch The Bachelor. The reason it was so jarring is because if you ever watch Chris do anything, he has no emotion.

00:31:05
Speaker 2: He's very straightforward.

00:31:07
Speaker 1: He presents things as they should, He does not give his opinion. This was the first time people were seeing him loose, seeing him loosing the reins and just really let himself go. And everyone was like, oh wow, that is the real Chris Harrison. And he was defending things that were so obviously offensive. And what made it worse is he was yelling at me as a black woman rather than listening to me, saying hey, I'm offended, all while calling me his friend.

00:31:36
Speaker 2: But you weren't trying to hear what your friend had to say.

00:31:38
Speaker 1: So it was a really big moment that caught a lot of people off guard. And the reason it took on an even bigger life of its own. Is because then other contestants of color started saying that they supported me and they condemned what he did, and then the show came out and said they were suspending him, and then they eventually let him go, even after he publicly apologized on Good Morning America.

00:32:00
Speaker 2: So it just turned out to be this whole thing.

00:32:02
Speaker 1: But somehow me asking one question was manipulating him to go on a fifteen minute.

00:32:07
Speaker 4: Rant, Oh I'm sorry.

00:32:09
Speaker 3: My question exposed how a man really feels about this particular topic. And you guys are mad at me and not mad at the person whose words came out of his own mouth, unedited, And he's not to blame for this.

00:32:25
Speaker 4: That's crazy, But.

00:32:27
Speaker 2: Isn't it crazy how life works?

00:32:31
Speaker 1: If if he was going to go off like that, it wouldn't have had the same impact unless he decided to go off like that in front of the first black bachelorette. How wild is that that that's the interview that he decided to let luc in.

00:32:45
Speaker 2: It's such a full circle moment.

00:32:48
Speaker 1: You know, when he sat on that stage four years before that and told me I was angry and I seemed upset when really, I had the same energy that I gave four years ago. I had to given that interview where I had to show no emotion that I was calm, cool and collected. Meanwhile, he can rant and raise and do whatever it is that he wants to, but somehow to a.

00:33:10
Speaker 2: Huge sector of Bachelor Nation. That's my fault. That was my fault. I made him talk like that. I tricked him. This is what people say. I tricked him into that.

00:33:23
Speaker 3: No, you're so powerful that everything is your fault, Darling. Every bad theme that has ever happened on that show is Rachel Lindsay's fault.

00:33:34
Speaker 2: I'm a witch.

00:33:39
Speaker 3: What advice would you give other black women who want to appear on that show?

00:33:45
Speaker 2: Ooh, listen, I mean I'm fair.

00:33:50
Speaker 1: So I will say that there have been changes made since. You know, things really have blown up since twenty twenty, after I did the show, or after I was the Bachelorette for three years, we saw nothing, and I was very vocal about diversity and inclusion.

00:34:08
Speaker 2: When their hand was forced, they started to do that.

00:34:10
Speaker 1: They named Matt James, they hire a diversity consultant. They thereafter they have Taysha, then they have Michelle. You see more contestants of color coming on because you're having content leads that are actually interested in dating multiple people in the bipod community.

00:34:27
Speaker 2: So they have now.

00:34:28
Speaker 1: Hired an executive producer for the first time.

00:34:31
Speaker 2: It's black.

00:34:31
Speaker 1: It's a black woman, So she's on the post side, not necessarily inside making decisions a swamp posts.

00:34:38
Speaker 3: And post is where all the magic happens. And editing, it's a whole different department that stays in the office in this case now they stay at home child, but they edit and put this show together. So when you were on The Bachelorette, was there any black people, well black producers or high level black producers who were work working on the show in the field.

00:35:02
Speaker 1: So to go back, when I was on The Bachelor, there was not one black producer, not in casting that I saw. If they were, I didn't see it, not in casting, not in the field. So the people who would have been in the house with us and the one who's the executive producer, Now there were a couple of posts, but as you just described, that's posts, so they're not with us when we're making decisions, when we're trying to figure out how to navigate it. And that was One of the things that I talked about is people of color aren't going to go far if they don't trust who they're telling their story to. If someone can't ask the right questions to get them to open up. Who can show some level of understanding and some empathy because they've experienced what they're going through, they understand how they feel.

00:35:43
Speaker 2: In this environment.

00:35:44
Speaker 1: I didn't have that now because I've grown up in a lot of p like I went to pwi's my entire life. You know, I've been the only black at my law firm, a couple of my law firms. I understand the dynamics, so I can get through it, but most people can't. And you know, most people just get uncomfortable with it. You're already thrown into such a weird situation. So when I was the bachelorette, they brought in filled producers.

00:36:08
Speaker 2: That were black. They brought in three.

00:36:10
Speaker 1: Because it was going to be the most diverse cast ever, so they wanted people of color mixed in with this diverse cast. On my side as the lead, you know, you've got a couple of producers with you. Again, I was by myself. There was no one of color, so that was even more difficult for me now that I'm making decisions. And race was a huge factor in my season if you haven't watched it, because they casted a racist on my season and he was causing a lot of drama in the house that I wasn't privy to be to know and with me was a completely different person.

00:36:45
Speaker 2: So I didn't find all that out till after my season was over.

00:36:48
Speaker 1: So back to what you were saying about producers and stuff, they now have what I'm talking about. What they've done, well, they have an executive producer, but she's on. There's no executive producer in the field. There's no producer there. There's one guy unless they've hired more in the field, and so they need to do a better job of that so people can feel more comfortable.

00:37:12
Speaker 2: But they're taking those steps.

00:37:14
Speaker 1: So you know, I would just say, if you want to go on one of these shows, read my book so you can.

00:37:21
Speaker 2: And that's not a plug.

00:37:23
Speaker 3: The book is called miss Me with That. Yes I'll plug a honey, read her book miss Me with That.

00:37:28
Speaker 4: Goheas this, but.

00:37:30
Speaker 1: More so to understand my experience. It'll be different because I was the first. But then I would listen to other voices out there. Listen to Ebanie k Williams she had I'm a big Housewives fan. I'll watch every single franchise, so I was very excited for Ebanie to join. And I saw from the outside what Ebanie went through, and I have had some conversations with her and I know she went through so much more than that.

00:37:51
Speaker 2: So I would listen to those people just so you can be prepared.

00:37:55
Speaker 1: You can have your antenna's up, and you can stay alert because it's very easy when everything is take away from you in that world. Because that world's different from Housewives. You have no phone, you have no TV, no internet. Everything that's familiar to you is taken from you. So all you can trust is your gut. So if you can equip yourself with as much knowledge as possible before you head in there, then you'll be fine and you'll survive it.

00:38:18
Speaker 4: Wow.

00:38:19
Speaker 3: I mean, this is the reason why I'm happy that my career has taken this spind of being in front of the camera, because I want more black people to know that there needs to be more producers to work on these shows.

00:38:33
Speaker 4: And for me is.

00:38:34
Speaker 3: To get these executives whose job is to hire producers. You gotta hire people who a not only reflect the talent, yeah, but be who also have a skill set to do the job.

00:38:45
Speaker 4: Because I was a black.

00:38:47
Speaker 3: Producer working on Atlanta Housewives, du made sense. But I was also a black producer working on New Jersey Housewives, and it had nothing to do with my race in terms of my connection with the Jersey Housewives. It was my talent, but it's because someone gave me, gave me the opportunity. My biggest thing, which is why I'm glad I started my production company, is because I want to implore more people of color to get these high level positions because one thing I always tell people, when you're working on a black show, I don't care if it's a dating show or docuseries like a Housewives of Atlanta. You need producers who reflect how the cast look because there's a certain language that we have, there's a certain look that we can give each other, and it makes everybody's jobs easier. And that's why when I was talking to Ebden k Williams about her experience on New York City Housewives, that's when it hit me, like, you don't have any black producers to work with either, And that said a lot about her experience.

00:39:52
Speaker 1: It's tough, but it can be worth it, which is why I don't want to tell.

00:39:56
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a living.

00:39:57
Speaker 1: Testimony that it can be. I don't I want to discourage you from it.

00:40:01
Speaker 2: Just be prepared. I wasn't prepared in a lot of ways.

00:40:04
Speaker 3: Well, look, you were prepared to find love, honey, you found it. So before we end, what's the latest with you and Brian? Are we trying to have baby babies?

00:40:14
Speaker 1: Like?

00:40:15
Speaker 3: What is it that you want out of your life right now? When it comes to you and Brian?

00:40:21
Speaker 1: So I it's so funny because a lot of people will look on social media and they're like.

00:40:26
Speaker 2: You never post Brian? Are y'all still together?

00:40:29
Speaker 1: Oh?

00:40:30
Speaker 2: There must be troubling paradise.

00:40:31
Speaker 1: What I will say about Brian and I is we were so public obviously and how we met, and everyone had an opinion on our relationship, and it was tough for us when we came off the show because people were mad. They were mad at me, they were mad that I chose Brian and not Peter. So initially we pulled back from everything and said, you know what, We're going to get to know each other in real life and protect ourselves with our family, our friends, people who get us. And that's kind of carried on through our relationships. So we do a really bad job of letting people in. But we are so good. We just got a house in La We're very excited about that.

00:41:06
Speaker 2: And we do want to grow our family.

00:41:07
Speaker 1: I am a person I'm very guilty of putting work first, work work, work, work, work all the time, and I'm really trying to be proactive because I'm ready.

00:41:15
Speaker 2: I have such baby fever. I swear.

00:41:17
Speaker 1: I was on a plane the other day and there's a baby next to me and I stared at the baby the whole time and I had to apologize.

00:41:22
Speaker 2: I apologized to the mom.

00:41:24
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not I'm just like really having baby fever right now. So yeah, I've just been so busy i haven't had to focus on it. But we're trying to focus on it right now. Like I'm actually talking to some doctors and getting some referrals on some things.

00:41:37
Speaker 3: Well, when you come back on my podcast, I would throw you a gender revealed party. Oh yes, a few parties, so so trust me, I would do that for you because you know, again, I feel like you represent a lot of black women who just said, you know what, let me take this chance.

00:42:01
Speaker 4: And I'm such.

00:42:03
Speaker 3: A proponent for people to just take a chance because you never know what life has to offer for you. Yeah, and you're the perfect example of that.

00:42:12
Speaker 2: Hek you. Thank you, so, Rachel?

00:42:15
Speaker 4: Where can people find you? Follow you? Where can they buy the book? All those things?

00:42:20
Speaker 2: Okay, here you go, guys.

00:42:21
Speaker 1: You can catch me six out of seven days a week on Extra check your local listings. You can catch me on Higher Learning. Podcasts with Van Lathen comes out. New episodes drop Tuesdays and Fridays. We talk about everything that intersects with black culture, from current affairs, politics, sports, entertainment, all that good stuff.

00:42:38
Speaker 2: You can catch my weekly blog on Meta.

00:42:40
Speaker 1: I write once a week about anything lifelove, career, all that, and I do an ask rage segment and then you can follow me on social at the Rach Lindsay And yeah, that's everything.

00:42:55
Speaker 3: The beauty of my conversation with Rachel is the fact that it was nice to highlight the pressures that she felt being the first black bachelorette and also what that meant for her, her family, her sanity, in addition to her legacy. So to see that she did find love is amazing. But what was the gag of the gagg gag gay gags is? I had no idea since was into the thugs, Rightchel, I.

00:43:25
Speaker 4: Didn't notice this. I love it though, I feel you girl, but.

00:43:29
Speaker 3: No all jokes aside. I really hope you guys pick up a copy of her book in addition to the fact that continue to support her as she is a correspondent on Extra and I really do love her. She is such a good girl, such a funny woman, and now she's a rain drop.

00:43:47
Speaker 4: Let's go Rachel.

00:43:52
Speaker 3: Thoughts opinions. Read about my conversation with Rachel. Email me every Reality with the King at stitcher dot com or leave me a voicemail at three one zero five nine three eight one eight eight.

00:44:11
Speaker 4: Thank you for listening to Reality with the King.

00:44:14
Speaker 3: New episodes drop every Wednesday and Friday, Share, comment, follow and subscribe to Reality with the King Wherever you get your podcasts, visit realitywthe King dot com and be sure to follow me at the Carlos King Underscore on Instagram and Twitter. Reality with the King is a production of More Sauce by Stitcher. It is executive produced by me Carlos King and Jasmine Henley Brown. We are also produced by Sierra Spradley, Rix engineering and music by Marcus ham More Sauce