Aaron Gleeman on Twins hiring Derek Shelton, Pohlad fam’s next moves

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, we're back, and so is Aaron Gleeman. What's Old is New again? So Aaron covers the Twins. As you all know, he's been on with us quite a bit. Covers the Twins for The Athletic, also Gleaman and The Geek the Great podcast covering the Minnesota Twins. He's already done plenty on this topic, but now it is time. It is a World Series off day. Aaron, good to see you, and let's get your initial thoughts on Derek Shelton returning to the team after previously being on the coaching staff with Roco Baldelli and being the next manager of Minnesota.

00:00:33
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's it's sort of predictable. I think this is sort of the moment they fired Balaldelli, which I think was kind of a long time coming. By the time they did it, they weren't going to be able to I think they were. They were limited by two things. One, they're not going to be able to be a destination that kind of an up and coming in demand manager is going to want to come to, Like if there was any other team interested in someone. They have an edge over the Twins from a monetary standpoint. From a competitiveness standpoint, but then also it's not clear to me that they're planning to be competitive in twenty twenty six. Like we you know, we asked Derek Folvey at the end of the season about payroll or about the plan for next season, and he kind of tap danced around it and said he has to talk to ownership and see what the what their kind of view of it is. And so that's going to limit you in terms of who you can bring in.

00:01:21
Speaker 3: As a manager.

00:01:22
Speaker 2: So you add all that up, and you know, the familiarity, like you said, not only was Shelton on Baldelli's staff as the bench coach in twenty nineteen, which is one of the most successful seasons the Twins have had, he was actually the year before that on Maletor's staff before they fired Paul Malodor and placed him with bal Delli, and he finished running if not runner up. He was one of the finalists in twenty nineteen when the job went to bald Delli. So the level of familiarity that they have with Shelton, and he's just he's a very well liked guy across baseball as far as I've been told, and I think within the Twins too, They're just very comfortable. Now. My question would be, why are you kind of leaning in familiarity and the status quo at a time when the organization as a whole is trending very quickly in a bad direction.

00:02:09
Speaker 4: Aaron, I mean this sounds like Baldelli Part two. I love Rocko and I love Derek Sheldon. I know Derek Sheldon for a long long time, and I think he's a great guy. But he just got fired by the Pirates. Okay, no, not a knock on him, but he got fired by the Pirates not that long ago because he wasn't doing the right thing to help them develop to the next level. The Twins are a younger gonna be a younger ish team more than likely because they're gonna slash payroll. It's what the pole ads do, right, So why would they not go for a younger, more energetic Not that Shelton isn't you know, doesn't have energy and all that. Why would they not go I mean, you know, for a somebody that they think might be you know that's been around. I don't know, I'm thinking the name like a Kai Korea something like that, right, the guy that has been around, but they're a little bit younger and they've never been a manager. Right, this just seems like they're just retreading Roco Part two.

00:02:59
Speaker 2: I mean, I agree with that. I think it's a very tough argument to make against that, like the familiarity. He's literally one of Baldelli's friends. He was his right hand man, and you know that the thing you said about the Pirates, like, I don't know, the Pirates have been bad for so long and they're in such a difficult spot because of the lack of investment from ownership that I'm willing to kind of say, like, Okay, he had a terrible record with the Pirates. Who hasn't had a terrible record with the Pirates. But the problem is that the Twins are, you know, trending in that direction too. I mean, like you said, they're cutting payroll even further. They've traded away a bunch of their guys. They might still end up trading away someone like Joe Ryan, Pablo Lopez, Ryan Jeffers and leaning even more into kind of bare bones spending with a younger team. And I it's nothing against Derek Shelton, but I do agree with what you're saying is like this is they're checking the box and they're able to say, hey, we made a change, But this is about as close to no change as you can get with literally making a change, Like you're bringing a guy back in who is a retread manager who has one of the lower winning percentages in baseball history for someone who managed. I think he managed seven hundred and something games for the Pirates, so you can't even say he said success Elsewhere I would have certainly leaned into kind of what you were describing is try to find the next good manager, like someone who's in their thirties, maybe recently retired or has sort of risen up the ranks quickly. But I wonder from that perspective if they're viewing this more as like a placeholder, like we're just sort of treading water organizationally, and why try to bring in an up and comer and hand them a roster that's just not equipped to contend and that kind of gets that stink on them right away. Whereas you know, this is gonna sound mean, but Derek Shelton is used to losing, and he is not a guy who's gonna, you know, cause big problems. He's gonna deal well, with not only ownership but the front office and the players. He's not gonna, you know, cause big issues that way. And if if they view him as just sort of a steady hand to get them through what might be more one to maybe three difficult years. I sort of see their thinking on that, but it's definitely underwhelming.

00:05:06
Speaker 5: How do they sell this to the fans.

00:05:07
Speaker 6: You're already talking about a fan base who lost I think you'll tell me if I'm wrong, nine guys at the trade deadline, and you already talked about the other guys that have a chance of possibly being moved. How do they sell this to the fans? Because all the things that you said are probably correct, but you can't sell it to the fans.

00:05:24
Speaker 5: Hey, welcome to Minnesota. We have our new manager, Derek Shelton hasn't really won much. He's probably getting paid way less than everybody else. That's a manager that's getting new marriagerial jobs and we're just gonna try to tread water. But how does the team sell it to the fans, because this is a time to invigorate the fans.

00:05:45
Speaker 2: There's there's no way to sell this to the fans. I mean, they're so far past that point. I mean, I agree with you, for sure, but I mean the truth is, you know, is there even a manager out there that they could have hired that would could be sold to the fans and get people excited. I mean, I joked when we did our kind of Emergency podcast last night reacting to the news, I said, what if some crazy happen in Dave Roberts they lose the World Series and he gets fired and the Twins hire them. That'd be more exciting to the fan base than Derek Shelton in that weird, crazy scenario. But it's not like people are going to be rush into the ticket office. I mean, the fan morale has gotten so low and they have such little faith in every level of this organization. I mean ownership obviously, we talk about that every time I'm on, but the front office, the coaching staff, the player development, the players themselves. That I agree with what you're saying is this is underwhelming within that context. But I wonder from their standpoint if they were like, there isn't a move we could make, There is no living manager who we could realistically get that would really raise fan morale, and so why not if that's the case, if it's already rock bottom, why not just bring in a guy we know and we like. And like AJ said, he I'm this is not intended to take anything away from Derek Shelton. My interactions with Shelton have always been good. Everyone I've talked to about him over the years speaks really highly of him, not only as a person, but as a you know, someone who's smart and hard working, attention to detail, all the things you would look for in a manager. And I'm willing to believe the Pirates thing he can learn from that and he can be a solid manager. I just wonder are they in a place as a team from the top bottom that the manager's even going to really be in a position to matter at this point.

00:07:26
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00:07:30
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00:08:40
Speaker 5: I like it.

00:08:41
Speaker 1: I like the hire. I like it for what the placeholder part is. I like it because it's someone who's well liked. He's safe, he's nice. We know that he's a respectable guy. He has manager experience, and he's going to go to Minnesota and be like, this is a massive upgrade. There is a lot more talent in terms of the way that the team is run. I'm sorry, right, Like, I'll lay it out here, Derek Fallavian company, right, the group that he leads, they've done a really good job with limited resources, and you can't fire the owner. So Roco gets booted because the team is crumbling because the owner wanted to sell and he's kind of tanking the place. Don't worry, Minnesota. Retraction is not going to happen. Eventually, this will get better. It's just going to take more time. But he got fired by the Pirates and he is a hard worker. He is probably the most motivated person on the planet to get an opportunity like this and take a team that's probably going to be peg to win what seventy games next year and get them to eighty and be like, oh wow, this team is like nothing. They didn't do anything the offseason. They kind of tanked it, just like they did the trade deadline and.

00:09:48
Speaker 5: Kind of did a good job.

00:09:49
Speaker 1: I could see a scenario like that where he's on a personal mission to be like, no, no, it wasn't me. The Pirates are the number one joke in the league. So now I'm going to a team that's more like in the five to seven range.

00:10:00
Speaker 2: I mean, that is true if they were sitting in an office a few weeks ago and they were like, is there someone we can hire who has experience managing in the majors for like five plus seasons, but in a worse situation than the one they would be in here, he's like the guy for that. I mean, they've had like the twenty eighth ranked payroll, so, like you said, he's coming to a place that might now have like, you know, the twenty fourth ranked payroll, and to him, that's like amazing. And you know, I've gotten questions from people who are like, does Shelton even know what he's getting into? Like why would he even take I Mean the truth is, there are good jobs and there are bad jobs, but ultimately they're only thirty of these things, and people work their whole.

00:10:37
Speaker 3: Lives to get this.

00:10:37
Speaker 2: And to your point, I'm sure he's not enthused or happy with how it went in Pittsburgh, but he wasn't in position to turn down that job six years ago. And if he wants to manage again, and like you said, if he wants to prove that he's better than he showed in Pittsburgh, if he's capable of raising a team from seventy wins to you know, borderline competitiveness, this is probably his best and maybe only opportunity. So I see it from that perspective. But yeah, you're definitely right. I mean, he could walk in the door here. And I don't want to be too harsh on for Pirates fans listening to this, because I don't know the interworkings of the Pirates, but it's one of the few situations where you could take someone from the place they've been, bring them to a team in Decline with a very low payroll, and have them walk in the door on day one and kind of look around and go, actually, this is kind of nice compared to where I just was, Aaron, does.

00:11:30
Speaker 4: This just show that guys just want to be managers? Because I look at Anaheim, Kurtzuzuki took a one year deal, right, Derek Shelton probably knows this team is not going to be competitive, but he just wants to manage, just and is this what managing has become? It's just guys that just gosh, I just have to manage no matter what.

00:11:46
Speaker 6: And I gotta do this.

00:11:47
Speaker 4: I did it once and I gotta do it again. And I know this team isn't gonna be great, but who cares. I'm the manager of the Minnesota Twins.

00:11:54
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to be a manager, and like, what are the I mean, he's fifty, And it's possible that Shelton could have taken a bench coach job or hitting coach job somewhere and kind of rehabbed his stock as a manager candidate, and maybe two cycles from now, two off seasons from now, he gets another opportunity. But that's not set in stone. And you know, we talked about the Twins familiarity with him. The truth is he's familiar with them too. He knows Derek Falvey, he knows a lot of people involved. He knows some of the players who are still there, not a ton of them. But you know, like Byron Buxton, let's say, and from her his perspective, if he wants to manage, and he wants to manage this year or next year, this is probably his only opportunity and he doesn't know what the future holds in that regard, and you know, like I said, there's thirty of these things, and there's gonna be people who would you know, kill to have these jobs. And you add in the extra motivation where he took that job and was I'm sure very excited to get his first managing gig in twenty twenty with the Pirates and it goes, you know, south pretty quickly, and now he wants to show that he can do it. Yes, it's a tough spot. But if you want to be a major leage manager and you're not, like you know, Albert Poohols, let's say where just your name recognition alone and what you've done as a player just makes it opens doors for you. You're gonna have kind of limited opportunities and you're gonna have to take what's what's offered to you. And I think it's a very difficult spot. On the other hand, if they go eighty one and eighty one next year, he might get some manager of the Year votes just because no one expects them to do absolutely anything, particularly if the off season plays out kind of how I expect it will, which is some more trades of veterans.

00:13:33
Speaker 1: Bingo, and that's what I want to get to next. So two fan questions here, one I think is a quicker one. I'll just ask you quick and then i'll get you my next one. So Ryan asked, was Tory Hunter considered? Do you know did you hear about him?

00:13:45
Speaker 2: So my understanding is that he never formally interviewed. He has been more on the Angel side than the Twins side. Although I've seen Tory over the last few years in the clubhouse and around the Twins a little bit. I don't know if it was his lack of interest, their lack of interest both, but yeah, he was never I don't think viewed as a as a serious candidate, or at the very least, he never was part of the formal interview process.

00:14:12
Speaker 6: Okay.

00:14:13
Speaker 1: And then last one, which is a lengthier question armand asks a percentage chance of them trading Joe, Ryan, Pablo Lopez and Byron Buxton and if you can mix in one of your latest articles about some specific needs they have, which will be very telling in terms of if the Pole Ads give any sense about this team at all.

00:14:34
Speaker 5: Yeah.

00:14:34
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Buckston's got the full note trade clause, and he's been pretty steadfast in his loyalty the Twins. He says, you know there was a reason I requested the note trade clause. I want to finish my career here. My family likes it here. I do wonder at some point he's shown incredible loyalty to them, but you know, everyone's got a limit. And if they keep shedding payroll and shedding talent and just go into a multi year rebuild, he's give me thirty two next year, does he you know, does his loyalty change it all? Or is he just so steadfast and wanting to remain with the twins. I think that's an interesting question. You know, he's always answered it. I don't want to go anywhere, but who knows if that changes. In terms of Ryan and Lopez, I'm of the opinion since the trade deadline that that's just inevitable to me. You don't do what they did at the trade deadline in terms of trading players, trading talent, shedding future salaries and then stop in the middle. And you know, Pablo Lopez in particular, is gonna make twenty one and a half million for each of the next two years and they might only have one hundred and ten million dollar payroll and the team, you know, are you wasting sort of the two years valuable years of a frontline starter, and particularly with Joe Ryan, who's gonna be even cheaper and is coming off an All Star year. If you've already done half of the rebuild, if you've already done half of a fire sale, I just have a hard time assuming that they're gonna halt it at that point. And then, like you said, I wrote a couple of days ago, you know the Lopez and Ryan situations, if they trade them, obviously they're not trying to be competitive in twenty twenty six or probably twenty twenty seven, but even on like a smaller scale, they just have these gaping roster holes, which is as a result of the fire sale, Like they have no bullpen whatsoever. They traded their top five or lievers. If you look at their first base DH situations, which is the easiest spot to find a big veteran bat, they have nothing. I mean, Cody Clemens was their first basement down the stretch, and I'm not trying to be mean to him, but he was a waiver claim and he's kind of a you know, a bounce around guy, and they need a backup, like they need a backup catcher. And if they trade Jeffers too. Then they just need catcher period. They might have to get Aj out of retirement now that I think about it, But let's do it.

00:16:37
Speaker 6: Let's do it.

00:16:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, how are those needs?

00:16:38
Speaker 6: AJ?

00:16:39
Speaker 5: Great?

00:16:39
Speaker 6: Let's do it.

00:16:40
Speaker 4: I'll play tomorrow.

00:16:41
Speaker 6: Let's go.

00:16:41
Speaker 2: Could you do eighteen innings in a World Series game if you had to?

00:16:44
Speaker 5: Right?

00:16:44
Speaker 2: Well, Bro, come on bro next next morning? Might be kind of it.

00:16:47
Speaker 4: That's clown, that's clown question.

00:16:49
Speaker 3: Question much I.

00:16:51
Speaker 2: Would like, I would personally like to see it. But those are the real tells, which is are they even going to kind of address the obvious weaknesses of this roster, because if they don't at least go out and get two or three veteran relievers, that is basically waiving a sign that says we don't care about next season. If they don't find some veteran bat to play first base and maybe DH to jump into the middle of a lineup that has really struggled for a year and a half, now, that is another sign that they just are worried about getting the payroll low, shedding talent. And so the Lopez and Ryan situations are the big ones. Those are the headliners that'll tell you everything. I mean, no team that expects to contend trades, frontline starters under team control like that. But even lower on the scale than that, I think the bullpen is going to be the biggest tell. Like, they have no bullpen basically at this point, and if they don't at least if they're not at least willing to go spend ten to fifteen million to add two or three kind of set up caliber veteran arms, that is essentially telling the fan base, don't we don't care at all about next season.

00:17:53
Speaker 4: Okay, I was a twin. I was a twin in the early to late nineties, early two thousands when there was literally five hundred people at the Metrodome, Okay for day games against teams, and the Twins fans have been great at target Field. Target Field's one of my favorite ballparks I ever played in. We were close to being contracted in two thousand and two. They did an Expos documentary then he mentioned the Twins were with the Expos going to be contracted, and then we saved baseball, you know, made the playoffs, whatever made our run. Twins got their new stadium, But there's been one constant here and it's the Polloud family. Okay, they were supposed to be selling the team. Will they ever sell it? What has a better chance of happening? First, the poll Outs sell the team, the Twins get contracted, or they win a World Series, which which one of those three things will happen first.

00:18:37
Speaker 5: Because the Pollouds I.

00:18:39
Speaker 4: Thought were selling and then all of a sudden like, nah, we're just kidding guys, we really want this team.

00:18:44
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:18:44
Speaker 2: I mean that's when I said that the fan morale was rock bottom. That's the final thing that pushed it to rock bottom, which they kind of held that carrot out in front of the fan base for ten months of hey, we're trying to sell the team. Only two at the end of it, you know, right after the Fighter sale, when everyone was sad about that and frustrated about that, is oh, we're pulling it back off the market. We actually think we're the people to run it. And you know, to your point, they've been running it as a family for four decades or basically, so I don't think there's gonna be anything to change the fan morale in a meaningful way to change their chances of really making a deep playoff run or winning a World series. Like you said, as long as they are owned by the poll ds, I just truly believe that nothing will change, and they've just done nothing to make anyone think otherwise, and so it's frustrating. The only bit of optimism I can point to, and this is just me speculating, is maybe they pulled it off the market because they couldn't get the premium price that they were asking for, and they're viewing the next CBA as a lifeline there in terms of if there's more revenue sharing, or if there's a salary cap or anything that really causes a mid to low tier payroll team or revenue team like the Twins to be in a better situation than they are now in terms of competitiveness and revenues, then maybe they can revisit the sale. Well, you know, two years from now, let's say, and there'll be buyers more willing to give them the price that they need. But short of that, I mean, I hate to say this because you know, my livelihood revolves around Twins fans being interested in coverage of the team. But I just have gotten to the point now where I think, as long as the pole heads are running things, it's going to be business as usual that we've seen from them for the most part for decades and decades, And I think the reason it's trending in the wrong direction is that they're no longer even comfortable being kind of an average spending team. Now they want to be in the bottom third because that's in their mind, that's a lot easier to not lose money by cutting costs versus not lose money by actually putting a good product on the field.

00:20:43
Speaker 1: And what you said, it's exactly what's going to happen. They want to sell the team. They probably were told by advisors you might make two hundred million bucks more the price that they initially wanted. That's where they were off. If they wait until after the CBA, even if it's not a cap, they're waiting, they're going to get something from their group, right like you mentioned revenue share. So I'm with you, Twins fans, hang in there. Aaron is there for you on the Athletic on his pod. You're the best.

00:21:06
Speaker 2: Thanks Aaron anytime, guys.

00:21:08
Speaker 6: Thank you.

00:21:11
Speaker 2: M