Dead October: Making sense of more Phillies heartbreak

00:00:09
Speaker 1: The Philly Show is presented by Fox One. It's Saturday, October eleventh, twenty twenty five. Ruben Tomorrow Juniors Here, Jim Salisbury's here. I'm todd z a lucky. The Philly season ended on Thursday in a crushing and crushing fashion, a two to one loss to the Dodgers and eleven innings in Game four the NLDS Dodgers Stadium. I think this is a loss that will be seared into the memory banks of every Phillies fan probably forever. You know, if you're old enough to remember nineteen sixty four or Black Friday or Joe Carter, then you certainly know what I mean. Let's talk about it. It's time for the Parks First Pitch. First Pitch is brought to us exclusively by our partners at Parks Casino, Pennsylvania's Number one. Because you know, where do we even start? I mean, flew back, guys, I flew back from LA yesterday and you know, landed and had some text messages from people and and all kind of the same thing. You know, I feel so bad for Ryan Kirkering people. You know, some of my family back home texted and they don't even really know his name, and they said, I feel so bad for that picture that did that. You know, feel bad for the Phillies. It seems like this loss every every time the Phillies get bounced from the playoffs. If you're a Phillies fan, it hurts. But it seems like this one affected people in a different way. I don't know how you guys feel about it.

00:01:45
Speaker 2: It was a painful loss, a painful series defeat, because he had a ninety six win team with a lot of talent, the high expectation, and it ended suddenly and with a really good, good guy and a solid contributor having had a really difficult moment. If you if you don't feel for that kid, then you don't have a heart in your chest. It was a tough way to end. You know, get back to spring training and try again next year. I know there's a lot that has to go on before then.

00:02:24
Speaker 3: But.

00:02:27
Speaker 2: There were a lot of reasons that I don't know where you want to go with this, Todd, but there are a lot of they just didn't hit. It wasn't they didn't lose because of Ryan Kirkering didn't make a play on the ball that came off the bat at seventy miles an hour with a big swing, So it was essentially a change up and had a funny spin to it. You could see why it got away from him. You could see why he panicked in that situation. He's human. But you know, they just didn't score enough runts in this series to beat a team that also didn't score a lot of runs in the Los Angeles Dodgers, and that's why they've gone home for the third straight autumn, much earlier than anybody wanted them to. But I mean, I think you're right mentioning Carter and Black Friday, and you know, to me, I would add the other Black Friday, you know, staring down from the press box and seeing the Saint Louis Cardinals stream out of the dug out that night while Ryan Howard is clutching his ankle. It was a very very painful defeat. And another year has ticked off this team's oh doometer without them getting to the place they want to go. And honestly, for the Phillies fan base and Phillies organization, that's the thing that hurts the most.

00:03:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of things to unpack here as far as you know what happened and why, and you listen, I believe this in my heart of hearts. You win as a team and you lose as a team. And there's a lot of things that happened team wise that led to that terrible moment for Ryan Kirker. And yes, you have to feel for him, There's no question about it. It's a play that you know, all of us who have played baseball know and understand. But he just got caught up in the moment and you know, regardless of what he said in the press conferences afterwards, and had to face the music afterwards. I mean, it's just a play you instinctively picked up and you throw to first base, as simple as that. Now you know the moment was big for him. I'm not even really sure he should have been in that moment. To be honest with you, I don't know that I agree with a lot of things that Rob Thompson does. I think he did a masterful job in a lot of ways in getting the pitching staff to get to be able to hold that team down the way it did. I would love to have stayed with Lozardo there. I think Lozardo was throwing with passion. He was throwing with confidence. I didn't see it back off in his stuff. I know the lefty righting thing is something, but I honestly felt like this is a guy who, to me, you throw him till he's done. There were his runs. I felt like he still had good stuff. And it put Orion Kirkering in a really, really tough spot. You know, there's a lot of things to unpack. And like I said, I think Rob Thomas is one of the best managers around, but I think there's a lot of things to unpack regard regarding that that situation. And the bottom line is this, they hit one the lineup hit one day.

00:05:23
Speaker 2: Hit two twelve, they hit too.

00:05:24
Speaker 3: Twelve one day out of four. And you have to be able to you have to be able to produce runs. Yeah, that that is something that has to happen. And like I've said before, they have very dangerous hitters. I'm not sure that they have really very good hitters.

00:05:41
Speaker 2: I agree with you on the Lozaro thing to the left right. I mean, I didn't even think it applied there. Because the guy's a starting pitcher. He faces left right all the time he was firing. Let him finish that inning and you bring Oriyon in with traffic on base where he's had trouble. And the sad part of all this is Orion his job.

00:06:01
Speaker 3: He really did. He really did a weak.

00:06:03
Speaker 2: Ground ball, that's what you want.

00:06:06
Speaker 3: And he did it on two fast balls that he had not been confident with, and he did it with a couple of fastballs to get the guy has to get jammed on it, and it's you know, it's not his best pitch, but he went after him and I was impressed by that. He just reacted to that baseball and poorly.

00:06:25
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, the final play was an indicative of the way the team played in the series. The fundamentals were poor throughout the series, from the little things fundamentally, the trade turner play with the throw to JT. That was a tough play. I have to very very tough play to make. But if either that's a forest play or the thrower is on the other side of the bag, they get that run. The base running play on the bunt was was was poorly executed, and then they don't make a simple play on a ground ball no matter how how much we feel for the guy. The fundamentals were problem and one of the fundamentals of baseballs. You got to score runs. That was a big problem as well.

00:07:12
Speaker 1: So well, yeah, no, I mean the offense. I wrote down all like the little moments in the game that kind of add up. You know, you're gonna when when you lose a series like this, you think about, well, if this had happened, if that had happened. Jim, you mentioned that the trade turner throw to the plate, the bass running castillas, the base running on the bunt not being very good. You think to the two to two pitch that Christopher Sanchez made Alex call that was strike three, that was called a ball and he walks. That changes everything, you know. And I asked Sanchez after that game, I said, when you fly home tonight, are you going to be thinking about the little moments? And I said specifically, are you going to be thinking about that play or that pitch? And you know, he told he said, of course everybody knows this by now, But he said that the plate said he missed the call, man, can't He.

00:08:08
Speaker 2: Also to out walking with the three run lead in game one.

00:08:12
Speaker 3: You blow three run lead in game one, Those.

00:08:19
Speaker 1: And those little things become they don't necessarily become big things. If your lineup is hitting, so you know, if they do what they're supposed to do. And the pitching was obviously great on both sides of this postseason, but if the offense scores some runs, then maybe you can get away with that, you know, throw to the plate from Trey Turner or you know, casting it that they don't. Maybe they don't even bunt in that situation with Castianos because they're already have a lead, or maybe that situation doesn't even present itself. You know, maybe the Sanchez walk maybe uh, you know, they're that in a situation. You know, the Mookie Bets walk with the bases loaded by Juan Duran. You know, maybe that doesn't even happen. Who knows, you know, I mean, I guess I'm just saying that those those little moments did not go to Philly's way. The fundamentals weren't there because the offense wasn't there. But I felt really felt terrible for Ryan kirkering in so many different ways as a human being. You know, I think I was literally I was literally thinking of all the times in my life that I've done something stupid that I still kind of go back in my head and I don't know if you guys ever had those flashbacks. I'll be sitting watching TV and something will pop in my head and I'll go, oh, and I'm just thinking, like nobody knows about that moment. Millions of people know about this moment for Ryan Kirkering, and I just wonder how he's going to recover for it from it. I you know, his teammates were great after the game, but he got up there in the corner of the clubhouse spoke to reporters, owned it or it, and I will tell you about I don't know how long I was in that clubhouse after Game four, but long after he spoke, his eyes were still swollen, his eyes were still red, there were still tears in his eyes. And you know, he felt the weight of his team on his shoulders. He felt the weight of all of every Phillies fan on his shoulders. So, you know, big, bigger picture wise, you know, you hope he kind of bounces back from this, and you wonder, you know, is he going to be able to pitch in Philadelphia again. I don't know. I don't know where this goes, but.

00:10:33
Speaker 3: I did that. I'm hoping that that what does not kill you makes you stronger in this case because he's a really great kid man. He's a great kid in a in a very high pressure situation and didn't react to it well. And I'm hopeful that he reacts what happens later on that he becomes better for it somehow, Someway and I love the support of his both Rob Thompson and the rest of the staff and players that had for him. You know, that's the way they are.

00:11:03
Speaker 2: Todd, you mentioned having bad days and nobody knows about it. We've all been there. This is the price you pay for having exceptional talent and rising to the top of your profession just being Major League Baseball. He has optional talent. He is in a place that thousands upon thousands upon thousands of kids dream of being in, but they don't have the talent to get there. Dodger Stadium, Bright Lights, National TV, Thursday Night, Game five of the Game four of the NLDS. He had the talent to get that. He's the man in the arena, and he had a tough day. Everybody saw it, and I think he's got the character to bounce back. So yeah, anyway, that was first pitch brought to you exclusively by our partners at Parks Casino, Pennsylvania's number one casino. Parkscasino dot Com is the website. You must be twenty one to participate and if you have a gambling problem, one eight hundred gambler.

00:12:13
Speaker 1: All of our playoff coverage is brought to you by Fox one. Fox one is now live stream all your Fox favorites together in one place, including all al playoff games and the World Series. The American League Championship Series begins with Game one on Sunday at eight oh three pm Eastern on Fox. Game two is on Monday. It's going to be the Toronto Blue Jays against the Seattle Mariners. The Blue Jays will be trying to get back to the World Series for the first time since Pat Gillicks Blue Jays won the World Series in nineteen ninety two and nineteen ninety three. The Mariners will be trying to win their first World Series in franchise history. After that epic historic Game five of the NLDS.

00:12:52
Speaker 3: Talk about not being able to hit.

00:12:56
Speaker 1: Fifteen inning affair on Friday night in Seattle. That was an epic, epic game. But yeah, you're right, Ruben, one hundred percent. It's You can stream the Alcs on Fox One, from MLB postseason to NFL on Fox to Big Noons Saturdays. With Fox One, you get it all Live. Start your seven day free drial today. Offers are subject to change. Go to foxwe dot com for complete terms and conditions. Fox One Streaming Now. Jim, you mentioned no one of you guys mentioned what the Dodgers hit in this series. I was looking, yeah, I was looking at the numbers, and it's just it's just wild to me. So the Phillies had four hits in Game four. They've batted two twelve six fifty seven ops in the series. They scored fifteen runs, thirty eight strikeout, seventeen walks.

00:13:50
Speaker 3: Since terrible, that's pretty terrible. It's terrible, pretty terrible. So he for team that's supposed to be offensively minded, that's terrible, terrible. SERI.

00:14:00
Speaker 2: Philly's pitching. It did a good job on Freddy and O Tony.

00:14:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, and bets.

00:14:06
Speaker 1: It continues a trend though, so since since Game two of the twenty twenty three NLCS. Remember they took that two l lead against the Diamondbacks. Everybody remembers. Since that game, the Phillies and the postseason, they've hit one ninety nine with a six to twenty six OPS. They've averaged only three point two runs per game. So in those thirteen games, they've scored three or fewer runs, and nine of them they're zero for nine in those games. That's not shouldn't really come as a surprise. You scored three runs for least year, most likely going to lose. Right, most of the time, they've scored four runs or more. Four times they're three and one in those games. But here's so, here's the crazy part, or a crazier part. You look at what the Dodgers did this series. They batted one ninety nine, They had a five to fifty seven OPS. They scored thirteen runs, so yes, the Phillies outscored the Dodgers in this series. They had forty one strikeouts and twelve walks, so the Dodgers had a lower batting average, lower OPS, more strikeouts, fewer walks. In the history of best of five DS series, Division series and best of five LCS. Remember back in the day the LCS was only a five game series, the dodgers five to fifty seven OPS is the forty second lowest of any team. Only one team ranked above them ever won a series that was the twenty fourteen Giants with the five point fifty three OPS. The twenty fourteen Giants beat the Nationals in the five game DS. So the Dodgers did something that almost no team has ever done with worse offensive production, with such awful offensive production, And that just kind of jumped out at me just because I was like, because I saw that number on the flight back, and I'm like, five to fifty seven.

00:15:57
Speaker 2: You can't.

00:15:58
Speaker 1: That's unbelievable. They won this. That tells you how.

00:16:03
Speaker 3: Poor their offense was.

00:16:05
Speaker 1: Yes, how poor the offense was, and how those little things, as I mentioned earlier, pop up and loom big because you couldn't scratch any runs across.

00:16:15
Speaker 3: There's so many things to unpack about this series, and it sort of strikes to the wards that they've had over the last several years, particularly in the playoffs. When you play playoff baseball, it is a different brand of baseball. You have to be able to play a different brand of baseball, especially if you do not bash, which this team did not do and they have not done in several years getting opportunities to bash. So they have to be able to pick up the baseball and throw it across the diamond. They have to be able to play solid defense. They have to make the plays in the outfield. They have to throw to the right basis, they have to back up the basis. They have to play the fundamental game that's necessary, move runners, do the little things. So if you're not going to be able to bash when especially during the course of a series in the playoffs, you have to be able to play clean baseball. You have to be able to play good fundamental baseball, which is something that has to happen during the course of the year, all year long, because you're not all of a sudden going to say, shazam, now we get to, you know, playoff time in October, and we haven't tightened up these things. We don't do PfP well, we don't bunt well, we don't move runners well, we are not running the base as well. We don't make the plays that are necessary to make you're going to lose. And that's exactly what happened with the Phillies. And there was some fundamental things that happened. There's some situational baseball things that happened. When you don't hit the ball out of the ballpark, you can have a lot of you're subject to a lot of scrutiny because you're not playing the game the way it's supposed to be played. And this is not just the Phillies, this is across baseball. It is astonishing to me, and this is a bigger picture thing. It's astonishing to me that when you watch baseball games, how different the game is in the playoffs and how differently it's played during the course of the season. And I don't understand why organizations don't understand how important the fundamental piece of the game is, because when you get when it's time to win, to actually win a game, when you have to win a game, you have to have strong fundamentals. Otherwise you're screwed, you're out. And I believe in playing the game to win. And the fact that these things are not stressed for the one hundred and sixty two it shows up in these situations as it did with the Phillies.

00:18:46
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if you guys saw in the story I wrote at MLB dot com, but in my game story, I used a quote from Matt Strom and I because I you know, I said, listen, I'm not even the guy's teammate. I said, you're his teammate. How fat you go for Ryan Kirker? And what went through your mind when he made that? He panicked and he said as soon as he let the ball out of his hand. I said to myself, I wish as a veteran player, I would have asked why we don't do more PFPS and work on our fielding practice more throughout the season.

00:19:20
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, nobody gets on the field anymore, Todd. Listen, when I was coaching in Boston and we were doing some coaching stuff, I mean, I used to have to take those guys out. They were so some of them were so clueless with the Mets organization. Far as base running, we used to do, like with the John Vukovich, you know, work around around the world from first to home and work on base running because it's stuff that doesn't get worked on nearly enough anymore. It's stuff that's taken for granted. You heard what they said about the months he play and the wheel play. They hadn't they had never worked on it once. They just did it by instinct, right, And and so you know that that strikes where we are in the game of baseball where those small things are very, very rarely worked on. What's the last time you saw somebody take infield outfield?

00:20:09
Speaker 2: Never?

00:20:09
Speaker 3: It doesn't happen because everybody's worried about everybody's health and load management and all that bs. It's it's sort of embarrassing for the game for me, who's loved the game and watched the game, and you can call me the old man on the on the lawn, but when you don't work on those things, you can't expect people to come through. When it's when there's eight million people watching you and there's fifty thousand or sixty thousand in the stands.

00:20:37
Speaker 2: That quote, it is funny because PfP is literally like the first thing that teams work on in spring training, and it's the thing that was the very last thing that was missing to the Philly season. But that's a damning quote.

00:20:51
Speaker 3: And I will also say this, let me just say this when we and I know all teams. It happens with all teams because they rarely get on the field anymore, even with batting practice. I mean, they take their ground balls and they do their stuff, it's just not the same. The big issue for me is that during the course of the season. You don't really have outfielders throw to bases. You don't have an infield outfield. There's so many things that don't have. I know they don't do it in the minor leagues. It's just insane to me and I and to and to me, like when if you have an expectation for a player to make a play. I mean, we used to do pfps once a homestand like back when I was a GM I know that they did like once a homestand once every ten days, maybe once on the road if they had like a long road trip. I would take my outfielders as a you know, when I was a Boston uh, we would throw to bases like once every ten days. And I remember the trainers saying to me, I'm so glad. In fact, it was Paul Bukite used to tell me when he was with Boston, I'm so happy that you long toss. I'm so happy that you throw the basis because if they have to do that in the game and they haven't aired it out and they haven't done it like at one hundred percent, they could get injured. They won't have the ability to do it. It's just it's just strange to me that these things don't happen anymore.

00:22:17
Speaker 1: How much pushback did you get from that? Do you ever get outfielders go like, come.

00:22:20
Speaker 3: On, dude. They didn't because we said, hey, let's just do it, and they were really respectful. I had great respectful guys. They were like did they want to do it? Probably not, but they had to do it because in my mind it was like Mookie Betts and Jackie Bradley and Chris Young and Brockholt and Andrew Bennettendee. But these are all guys that were like, Okay, I know I got to do this. It's a pain in the ass, but I got to do this because at some point I'm gonna have to do it in the game, and I at least want to be prepared to do it. That doesn't really happen all that often.

00:22:50
Speaker 2: I think we do need to point out Bobby Dickerson gets his guys out there, and there has been improvement with some of his troops, most notably Trey Turner. I mean, it's not classic in field outfield, but they are out there early and a lot of that early early work.

00:23:07
Speaker 4: Has replaced, no question, some of the some of the infield outfield, but those days infield outfield, you know, forty five minutes before a game are over.

00:23:17
Speaker 3: And this is not an indictment on Paco Figaroa at all. I'm just saying it just doesn't happen in the major leagues. They do their drills, they go out there and do their drills, but there's certain things that they don't do because of the load management issue or whatever, that they don't throw the basis of full tilt. They don't you know, you know, hip balls down the line and do cutoffs and relays. That just doesn't happen anymore during the course of the season unless you do it in the game. And I just feel like we've gotten to the point in baseball universally in the major leagues because there's one hundred and sixty two games where those things aren't worked one enough, and then there's an expectation to be perfect. When it's time to do it. You hope that that relay comes in from right field and the second basement throws a bullet. Why did many trio throw that guy out at home plate that one time? And because they had worked on it. It was the second and it's something that they did naturally.

00:24:17
Speaker 2: I gotta think Todd Day during that week off they did some PF.

00:24:20
Speaker 1: They did they did do PfP, They did do PfP during I think what what Strom was saying was overall, you know, it wasn't it wasn't work one now.

00:24:29
Speaker 3: But he would be the first person to bitch to have to do it probably. I'm just saying, if they asked him to do PfP, you know, he'd probably say, I can't believe we're doing PfP, Like, why do we have to do this? I understand it. I understand him saying that in the moment. Yeah, but he may be the very first guy to say, why do we Why the hell are we doing this?

00:24:54
Speaker 1: Heap that it matters right right, But you know that those little things absolutely Yeah. We can go down the list and look at all the little things that have popped up in this series, and again, to me, it all kind of goes back to the fact that the Dodgers hit a five fifty seven. Ops did not hit at all this series. O Tani was one for eighteen, Freddie was three for fifteen. But the Phillies couldn't score any run. They couldn't outscore them, and they couldn't punch those runs across. And you know, some of those little plays maybe don't happen if the Phillies do their job at the play.

00:25:29
Speaker 2: When you hit, when you hit, and even if you don't hit for the whole of the series, when you get a big hit at the right time, it can wipe out a mistake. You know, case in point, the Oscar Hernandez makes a horrible fundamental play in the outfield in Game one, right and then sticks one of the seats to make people forget about it later in the game, and that those runs were consequential because the Phillies didn't build on their lead.

00:26:01
Speaker 1: I think, like the base running play on that bunt in Game two, when Nick Castiano's getting such a bad jump at their base and so.

00:26:09
Speaker 3: There's there's so many things to unpack about that.

00:26:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Dodgers they said they did the wheel play once earlier in the year in Anaheim. But I mean, if Max Munsey wheels and throws that ball down the left field line, it's all of a sudden, there's no glare on the Phillies' decision on their base running. It's like they pulled it off and they've got to run out of it. It's just such everything, such a fine line in this game, and it comes down to the word with a capital E, execution, right. You gotta execute pitches, you gotta have good at bats, you gotta execute on defense, and you gotta be sharp. And they weren't sharp.

00:26:50
Speaker 3: That That was one of those situations in my mind that once they showed the wheel play in the very first pitch, that either you take it off or you go. And this happened lot when I played. The third base coach would come down the line and say, hey, they're running the wheel. They're running a wheel play. If they show it again, go ahead and slash. And that's what they're taught to do. Topper talked about it, but he really hasn't been in that situation maybe once in his whole career in the four or five years he played in the big leagus or even in the minor leagues where he's had to like pull his batpack and swing it or recognize and Stot's one of the more, i mean most aware of players on their team. It's just something that that hasn't been worked on, something that hasn't been done, and something that you're not necessarily aware of. He actually bunn at eight. I watched it. The bunt was an excellent bunt and bounced thrice three times, two long hops and one short hop. Before months he made the play. Part of it was the fact that, you know, Cassiano's got very very little secondary. It does not run well. He you know, needed to extend his lead a little bit as trient primary and secondary. There's so many things to unpack there that you know, and.

00:28:03
Speaker 2: Maybe you take maybe if you take it off, you just let stop take a shot at and doing it the old fashioned way, pulling the ball, getting the runner over and taking a chance. I mean the defense is moving, you know.

00:28:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt bout it.

00:28:18
Speaker 2: It's all onder the water under the bridge, right.

00:28:21
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00:29:33
Speaker 1: So we're gonna have you know the Philly Show. This Philly season ended way earlier than we ever thought it was going to end. But the Philly Show will be back all off season. We're gonna be here all off season. We're gonna do some shows next week, really breaking down where this team goes from here, free agency, trades, all sorts of stuff. So make sure you keep coming to the Philly Show if you want your Phillies fix. We will be here for you, so check us out, but before we go, I do wanted to address and get your guy's thoughts. Rob Thompson was asked after Game five if he expects to manage next season. He said, that's out of his control, he said, And I liked how he said this. He says, I'm not worried about that right now. I've got sixty broken hearted people in that clubhouse right now that I'm thinking about and that I think that was a very sincere thought from Rob Thompson. I think that's you know, I know Rob a little bit, and I don't think that was BS. I think that was the last thing on his mind as well. Do you think I'm going to get fired next week? I think David, I don't think he was thinking about that. I think he was thinking about Ryan kirk Ring and Kyle Schwarbur and jj El those guys. So I wanted to ask you guys what you think. And again we're going to talk about Schwarber's free agency. Is Nick Castiano spack what do you do with j T? What do you do with Ranger? You know, do you try to bring back Harrison Batter all that stuff? But I wanted to least address the manager, because that's been a hot topic of conversation since the season ended.

00:31:19
Speaker 2: For me, he should be back. You know, he's presided of a ball club that you know, wins. Their win total is consecutive consecutive league or consistently gone up each of the four years, and the regular season still means something. It's how you get to the postseason. So there's been some a lot of success there. You know, I think we pick apart his moves in the postseason, but when I pick him apart, I can see the logic behind every move. You can see the baseball logic behind every move he makes. Sometimes just they don't work because the player doesn't execute. It's still a game, a player's game, and I think in a lot of ways throughout the season and he gets the most out of his players. I think they play for him. I think they've played tight in the postseason. That's not necessarily Rob Thompson's fault. So for me, he comes back. I do think the organization at this level, the big League, I do think there will be changes. I do think changes need to be made, but I still believe in him as the leader of this ball club. So for me, he would be back, he would not be one of those changes, but we'll see.

00:32:30
Speaker 3: As far as I'm concerned, I think he's one of the best managers affilies have ever had. I love him as a person, but also love him as a leader. I think he handles things extremely well in this day and age. His steadiness is the ability to get I think the most in a lot of ways, the most out of their players, put them in positions to have success. That's all important stuff. Yes, can you question some of the moves that he's made. I echo what Jim says. There's a reason why he makes a move all the time. He has something in mind, whether it's you know, whatever the piece of information is, he always has a reason. And you know, it's really up to the players to play. Ultimately, this is a team that was built to hit, and when you don't hit when you need to hit, it puts the team in a very, very difficult position. They've done a great job, but their pitching. I think changes will be coming. I think that they're and we talked about it in a offseason even last year. I thought that they would try to get more hitters or more people who make better contact, have better situational at bats don't strike out as much, aren't you know, home run or nothing type players. I expect there to be major changes, whether it be on the staff or the players. Mostly with the players. I think that there's going to be some very significant changes there. I don't think they'll run it back again, but I believe that Rob Thompson should be back and should be at the Helm with the Phillies. But I will say this, I've been with Dave Dombrowski when he made changes in his staff. John Farrell won two straight Al East titles, so the first time Boston had ever done that ever in its history. Got knocked out early in the playoffs twice, and John Farrell was gone along with his staff. So he's not afraid to make a move. And John Middleton wants his trophy back, and if he feels that Rob Thompson is not the right guy to take him there, who knows what will happen. I have a feeling that they will be back, but shoot, you never know. They may assess things and think differently and move forward from there. But I will tell you that there is some track record where it changes could possibly be made and.

00:34:50
Speaker 1: You don't know what they're talking about this weekend. They might have gotten on that plane and said, listen, we just didn't hit enough and we're going to really revamp this lineup. We're going to maybe do this with the pitching or or whatever the case may be. And then you sit there over the weekend, you have some conversations and you make a change.

00:35:09
Speaker 2: Uh.

00:35:10
Speaker 1: You know that's that's certainly happened before. It happened after the four or five season, when you know ed Wade was general manager for about a week and a half and then David Montgomery finally decided to make a change. As I recall, guys, am I right, am I remembering that correctly. So ed warde was going to be the general manager, he was going to continue on. And then after about a week or so, Dave Montgomery had a change her heart and said I need to make a change, and so he made a change. So after after five yes, so that could be in the works too. Yeah, so you're right. I mean they could be sitting there going, Rob how going to be pin this on Rob Thompson, you know, and then next Wednesday they could go I think we got to change the manager. I don't know, but I agree with you guys. I don't think the issue was with the manager. You know, I've been in I've been in his clubhouse before, where you hear a lot of kind of comments about the manager, a little chirping here and there.

00:36:06
Speaker 3: You will not hear that from these guys.

00:36:08
Speaker 1: You don't hear it from his guys. I mean, Nick Cassious had his run ins I guess you could say, in the dugout in Miami in June, and then he spoke to us postgame about it in Arizona last month. But other than that, you don't hear anybody.

00:36:24
Speaker 3: Going that's an outlier right there, that Casiano's thing. And sometimes it's a mirror something you have to look in the mirror about to right right.

00:36:32
Speaker 1: So it's not one of those situations where I think in the clubhouse people are going like this guy with the lineup, or this guy with the moves, this guy with how he handles me. It's what you know that you don't you know, you don't hear that stuff.

00:36:47
Speaker 2: The thing is, it still remains kind of an inflexible roster for some contracts and contract links and age of players the most the path of le resistance in terms of change might be on the staff. But I hope the manager returns. I don't think he deserves to be acts. Changing this roster is not going to be easy, in my opinion. I don't know that there's a lot of value on some of these players. I think we'll find out, and there's a lot of tough contracts, and then you have, you know, some of the other changes you can make are in free agency, and you look at some of their pending free agents, and you need those some of those guys if you want to get back to where you want to go. So it's a tough call.

00:37:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, you're right, Jim. I feel like if they do make that change, it's more out of like, well, we need we are inflexible on this side, and so we let's we'll try to do something over here and maybe hope that somebody else can punch them across the goal line.

00:37:53
Speaker 3: I will say this, they do have their players. While they some of them performance wise made to be declining as they get older, which will happen, they're still healthy and they're still productive players, and so don't be surprised by some moves that might be made where contracts are eaten. Some stuff gets changed around. There's some things that could happen because they are healthy and so there may be some you know, some things that where you have a little ingenuity where you can move the pieces around and change things up by eating contracts, by doing different things, and it will be fascinating. This is going to be, to me, the most fascinating offseason that the Phillies have had in years because of the pending free agency of the four players in Beader probably better Ranger, Suarez, JT, and Schwarber. I mean, you're looking at some pretty major decisions that have to be made and uh, I mean, I will be fascinated by what the front office does here.

00:39:04
Speaker 1: There's a club option on Alvarado as well, so that's gonna be also going to be another very interesting one.

00:39:10
Speaker 3: So, uh, lot of a lot of a lot.

00:39:14
Speaker 1: Of things to discuss as and again, so check us out next week.

00:39:18
Speaker 3: We'll be back.

00:39:18
Speaker 1: We'll have some shows next week beginning on Monday, where we're going to talk about this.

00:39:22
Speaker 3: Uh.

00:39:23
Speaker 1: You know, if we appreciate everybody support of the show as always, thank you so much for listening throughout the season. We thought it would be a little bit longer postseason.

00:39:32
Speaker 3: This year.

00:39:33
Speaker 1: Go to the Phillieshowshop dot com if you want to help support the show, swag it out yes, scan the QR code on your screen, or go to the Phillies show Shop dot com. Enjoy your weekend if you mus possibly can. Was not a great weekend for Philadelphia sports and in so many different ways, but especially for the Phillies. But yeah, thanks, thanks everybody for watching and listening.

00:40:01
Speaker 2: Smell your letter boys, Spell you Jim.

00:40:03
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