Uzma's Voyage: Charting a Course Through Autism and Advocating for Neurodiversity

Welcome to Why Not Me the World?
Podcast hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell us their stories. Some
will make you laugh.
Some will make you cry.
Real life people who will inspire and show that you
are not alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World.
Today's guest is a certified autism's Specialists. She has extensive
experience in coaching, mentoring, and advocating for individuals on the
autism spectrum. She has a background in law, professional coaching certifications,
and she has a holistic approach to autism coaching. She
has a business called Coaching with Uzma and I am
just so honored to have Uzma with us today. So
thanks for coming on the podcast.
Thank you so much for having me Tony.
Oh the pleasure is online.
Before we started this, we were talking about how confusing
it is for parents who just find out that their
son or daughter is autistic. Can you expand on that
a little bit on how it affected you with your son?
My sons. He just turned fourteen. And in the beginning,
like you said, I was a parent who was confused,
looking for a solution, looking for a quick fix, but
I don't know where to go and who to go to.
And then when I did good and turned to professionals.
Back then, I was in the UE. We just recently
moved to the UK. I've been away for fourteen years
from the UK and just returned. And when we got back, sorry, know,
when I was, I was there and I was looking
for this answer. I couldn't. I couldn't find a professional
who could actually nail it down and said this is
what it is. Because there was so many challenges on
a daily basis with my he's my elder, so I
couldn't compare him to his siblings because he didn't have
any siblings at the time. And then, yeah, and I
just I really was wondering what to do, and I
would often, you know, I would often try to seek
help through those days as Facebook, I think WhatsApp was
even around then, yeah, or WhatsApp was just probably just started,
but there's no community like that we have now. And
I was lost. And if I did go to somebody
and they would mention all these fancy terms, you know,
fancy terms, and I wouldn't get it. I just wanted
someone to talk to me in my you know, my language,
which just simple language and not use all this medical
terminology that I didn't understand because it was it would
confuse me even further. So now, you know, having like
a newly diagnosed you know, a child and a parent
come to me or because now I do obviously a
coat and I meant or trained parents and education settings
and corporates. But I try to keep my language really
simple because parents are overwhelmed anyway. They don't need everything
being put onto them.
Yeah, sure that makes sense. So how old was your
son and what led you to believe that he needed
some help in some sort of way.
So okay, So we had just moved from Doha to
Abudhabi and we were just settling into a new apartment
and he was doing some like certain things that were
like for me, felt strange and not kind of normal.
So there's a lot of repetition in So we had
moved it, it was an empty apartment and he was
sitting by the bedroom window it wasn't really a window
as a patio door, and he was just moving the
blood lines back and not the blinds. We didn't want
the mesh that you have for the mosquitos not to
come in right, So he was just pulling and pushing
swaying that around like he did it well over one
hundred times. He just sat there doing the same thing,
and every time he would do something, it would be
a repetition of it. So he would just constantly do
the same thing over and over again. And then when
I started taking him out to play groups, he would
not transition very well, right. He wouldn't he wouldn't point,
he wouldn't, you know, give me eye contact. Of the
typical traits that they say are the signs of autism.
He had. So I picked up very early. He's about
eleven months when I thought something is not quite right.
And that's when I started looking for, you know, professional help.
First forward five years, he's almost six. I still hadn't
fund an answer, you know. And in that process of
six years, I put him into nurseries, you know, various
nurseries with different curriculums. We tried school and nothing worked.
It was just a constant challenge between the teachers coming
to me saying he's not behaving very well. He's doing this,
and he's doing that. And then I just decided, look,
you know, I need I need to figure out what's
going on. I'm not getting the answers that I need.
In between those six years, I was doing a lot
of my own research to figure out what was going on.
I mean, we did have a choice of coming back
to the UK, but I didn't come back.
Was there a reason for not coming back to the UK?
I didn't come back to the UK because anyone to
separate the family. So I decided to stay. And then
when I did stay there, I you know, had to
figure out myself what to do with him. Sure, and
then I just started reading books, speaking to you know,
people in the community to find out what was going on.
And then later found out that there's something called autism.
And then obviously going then finding a right professional. I
approached the right professional and then yeah, he was assessed
and then and then diagnosed.
So once he was diagnosed, what were some of the
things that you found that really worked well? And then
what were some of the things that you hoped that
worked well but didn't work quite as well as you
thought they might.
Good question. I mean, I so when he was diagnosed,
it was firstly sense of relief for me. But you know,
I have an answer now, because during the process of
having a diagnosis or finding out what was going on,
I was very confused as a parent, you know, when
it came to his behavior or social not just not
just his behavior in the sense of his social behavior,
but also his academic his academic skills, his communication skills.
I was always very confused what to do. And then
certain things that he would do inn but did come
to his behavior that were not socially appropriate. I would
just find a lot of parents commenting on me being
being a bad mom and not telling him off or
not disciplining him enough, and questioning my discipline actually and
asking me how I disciplined my child and if I
do and then when I did, you know, going too,
you know, figuring out what to do with my son.
I did put him into school, thinking that would be
the solution, but i'd get the right support, but unfortunately
though it wasn't, you know, I would I would often
just get complaints from teachers saying he's not listening, he's misbehaving,
he's not doing his work, you know, he's agitated all
the time, but it was actually he had needs. There
were certain challenges that he was experiencing that needed to
be addressed, but they weren't being addressed. One of them
is an exact I'd like to share, is where he
you know, he can't sit for too long. So a
typical lesson in a classroom is forty minutes. He was
only six. He wasn't able to sit that long. And
I requested in his own meetings, one of the meetings
I had for his IP, I requested a break. I
just said, you know, in between his one lesson, could
he take a break every twenty minutes, so that's one
break in a lesson, And the school refused. I said, no,
we can't do that. Wow, we can't allow a break
because if we allow him to have a break, that
will disturb the children in the class, and we can't
do that. But he needed that, He needed to he
needed ship process what he's learning, and if he wasn't
going to take a break, he would just end up
trying to seek attention other ways, which obviously were ways
were not which would not appropriate for the class. So yeah,
wasn't he wasn't allowed to break, And that was one
of my main reasons for pulling him, pulling him out
of school, right, and then homeschooling him.
Okay, that was actually my next question. So you wound
up homeschooling him rather than putting him into any type
of classroom situation.
I mean I did try multiple school It's not like
I didn't try. So I did try multiple schools and
the schools just didn't work. I mean another example I
can share. You know a lot of autistic individuals are
not linear learners, right, so they're kind of everywhere when
it comes to subjects, and the example I can share
with my own son, I mean, he can talk about
tech like he's you know, giving a tech talk, a
tech talk. Literally, he can talk about tech like he
like a graduate from university and he's only fourteen, but
he's been doing that for years. But when it comes
to basic maths's he stumbles, right, So he's not he's
on a map of learning. He's all over the place.
And in his math class at school, you know, I
did explain to them, Look, he's good at his language,
you know, English language, English literature, his sciences, you know,
other subjects he was enjoying, but maths he was really struggling.
I asked them to differentiate in his learning, but they
weren't able to. Said, no, we want to keep the
curriculum the same for every child, and we want to
keep you know, hostyle of teaching is the same. And
I said, well, he's getting overwhelm in the classroom environment,
is it okay? Kind of give him a break and
take him to a room where he could work alone,
want to one with a teacher rather begin the in
clusterom environment, because now he's comparing himself to other children
and that's knocking his confidence down. But they know they
didn't allow that, and that was again one another reason
for me to pull him out. And then when I
kept him home, I think he was just sort overwhelmed
with everything that he had experienced. When I first introduced
the concept of homeschooling to him, you know, I was
really excited that he's going to get this opportunity to
learn around me in a safe environment where there's no
judgment nor comparison. I created this beautiful homeschooling room in
the house and he just walked in the first thing,
he just started crying. He said, I don't want to
learn now.
Where are you Originally from UK. After that you moved
to another country.
Correct, Yeah, we moved to Aboud ab.
Okay, So after you moved, did you notice any differences
from one country to an another in how they handled
or respected artistic people within their communities.
I couldn't honestly compare because when I went to the UE,
he was eleven months old, okay. So I had left
from Doha, so I had been in the Gulf region
for some time. So I couldn't compare the autism world
here in the UK two versus the UE, because I
hadn't lived here right and experienced it. I would just
hear things about, you know, a certain friends experience or
family members experience, but I hadn't had to experience myself
ast hand.
Okay, Because that's one thing.
When I talk with people from different countries, they will
give me different experiences of how they were either treated
or how their kids were treated, or just the overall
atmosphere in how some of these countries either acknowledged autism
or didn't give it as much attention that it deserved.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, no, you're right, But yeah, I wasn't
in a position to compare. But I can't say that
being in the UE. It was a new it was
a new thing for anyway, and the UE is a
very young country, so they were just working on it.
They had just started looking into you know, autism and
really trying to figure out is that a when? So
we were kind of we were new and they knew
the system there was you So it was very I
guess challenging the journey. But then we just as parents,
I guess you just roll up your sleeves and navigate yourself. Right,
That's exactly what I did because I wasn't, you know,
able to seek the answers I was looking for there,
and I didn't want to move back home to the
UK at the time. I decided, okay, I have to
do the work. So I decided not to go back
to work and you know, kind of have that career
break that went on for ten years, right, and then
I just yeah, I decided to study everything about autism
and figure out how I can support my son with
it when it comes to his you know, emotional development, academic,
social development. I pretty much took that responsibility. And number one,
it was a homeschooling and then within the homeschooling remat
I I've done a lot of different areas.
Now since then, you've become a huge advocate for autism.
Correct correct, Yeah, you mentioned earlier that you train and
talk to different people.
So what have you developed there that helps others?
Well?
Yeah, first, I mean I during COVID. I mean it's
a good question you're asking here twenty because during COVID,
I was at the point where I had given, you know,
just over ten years to my family, you know, homeschooling,
being a stay at home mom, just giving everything I
had to them. And during COVID it made me realize
that I want to do something for myself. And a
lot of people saying to me, well, my background is legal,
I'm a human rights lawyer, and a lot of people
were saying to me, well, going back to law would
just mean long hours, And it did because I had
some interviews and a lot of the job interviews entailed
long hours of work, which I wasn't ready to do.
I wasn't ready to be at home and then leave
the children for you know, a full day. So a
lot of my friends would suggest why don't you, you know,
become a teacher, because with teaching you get the same
vacation as your children. You know, you work around them,
You've got the typical hours of school where you can
drop them and pick them, and you know, then you've
got free time with your family.
Right.
Well, yeah, I mean I homeschooled my children, but I
didn't want to become a teacher and educate lots of
other children, So that was a that was a big
no offer me. And then I started looking at coaching
and mentoring. That was something pretty new to me then
and I went out and started researching and spoke to
a couple of coats and they mentioned, yeah, you could
definitely get into coaching, and your niche could be you know,
autism neurodiversity because that's where your background, you know background
is and where your passion really is.
That seemed like good solid advice, so.
I decided to start studying, and then I started my
ICF coaching. I got my courture credentials and qualifications through
the ICF, which is International Coaching Federation, and then I
started doing some courses around autism and neurodiversity. And then
I sat set up my own business four years ago.
Now that's great, and then yeah, I just started with
coaching and mentoring and giving a lot of family support
when it comes to homeschooling. And then as the business
kind of grew and developed more organically, we now what
we do now is prepare content neurodiversity courses for educators
or corporate organizations. I do courses of parents too, And
all my courses that I'm preparing now through the company,
through my business are all CPD approved, so anyone who
does take the course will get that professional development hours.
And through that I'm doing advocacy work and speaking at
conference servers and working with neurodiverge and individuals themselves on
life skills, executive functioning skills and really trying to make
a difference.
Yeah. Yeah, that's great.
So do you work with the corporate world as well,
because I know the corporate world sometimes thinks about should
they hire or should they work with people that are artistic.
Have you worked with a corporate world to where you.
Can show them that just because someone's late artistic doesn't
mean that they can't go in there and function and
do work and help their corporation.
Yeah. I really appreciate your question, Tony.
Yeah.
Absolutely, I have worked in and delivered training to the
corporate So it's interesting because there is and I think
the barrier. I guess the barrier starts not just in
the corporate setting. It starts very early, even before a
child goes to school. It can start in a home environment.
So imagine you have these barriers from your home to
then school and then when you enter the workplace. So, yes,
good question that you've asked there, because I have done
some training with corporate organizations where we've you know, really
talked about inclusivity and how to make the workplace inclusive
for every single person. You know, we're bringing in so
much talent. Neurodiverse individuals bring in so much talent, and
it's often overlooked because of certain things that were you know,
the body language you're an interview process, or the lack
of eye contact you're an interview processs just then the
doorshut for them. But if we look beyond that, we're
actually hiring somebody who's got so much talent. We're bringing
in so many different skills to organization for example's that's
really what matters. And to do that, it's really tweaking
and placing accommodations and modifications for that individual to work
in a safe place absolutely and feel comfortable, not just
for them but also for the employers or the other
departments or the colleagues understand how this individual works and
how their brains function differently, but how to appreciate them
right and not be so judgmental and carry these biases
that we often do.
Okay, So when I get interviewed, I always get asked,
is there one episode that stands out from others? And
because I've got so many, it's hard to really differentiate
because every episode and every person has their unique story.
Do you have one or two over the last few
years that just really stand out? You might have looked
at it as if this is really going to be a challenge,
but then after things get going, it turned into a
huge success.
Yeah, lots of different stories. But one, as you asked me,
the question that really came to my mind was I
had a neurodiverge individual. His mom had approached me for
some courtu and mentoring for her son. And now he
was a young gentleman, twenty seven, and when she talked
a little bit about his background and what support she needed,
I was inclined to say no because he was twenty seven,
and I felt like, oh, he's twenty seven, you know
the requirements that the requirements that you have or the
challenges that you're facing, I'm not sure if I'm going
to be able to support you, but let me try
so anyway. You know a young gentleman who had been
in a special needs center all his life from the
get go, Right from the get go, he'd been in
special needs center and then he had a one on
one CARA tutor around him, a support of people around
him in the home environment too, And he had come
to me at the point where he's verbal, but he
had he didn't have the social pragmatic language, so there
was nothing really in a conversation there, and she really
wanted me to work with him and introduce the concept
of social communication. And when we first started, and again
mentioning his age twenty seven, I wasn't sure how to
plan this and how to really get the outcome that
I was looking for that his mum was looking for.
So when, yeah, when we started working, there's lots of
different approaches I took with him to the point where
at the end he was able to recognize that this
world is not only about him, and when he does
meet people, there's a two way conversation that takes place
and he was now in a place where he could say, hi,
you know, how are you have that receptive conversation and
really talk. I mean, I'm not saying he had a
lengthy conversation, but he was able to recognize that when
he meets somebody, that there is a certain way of behaving,
a certain way of talking. And he was able to
do that by the end, And that was something I'm
really proud of doing. Actually, yeah, I really I really
value the parents input firstly, and then obviously just him
working with me and really understanding why he had to
do this. So I'm yeah, that was my Yeah, one
of my proud moments. I guess.
Yeah.
Now, the diagnosis seems to be more boys than girls
because of society. I think, do you find yourself working
with more of one gender than the other. And then
when it comes to females, they're the ones that are
at least diagnosed because they want to fit in, they
want to be social, they want to live that neurotypical life.
When they hit their teens and get into puberty and
get into hormonal changes and everything, that's when things really
change for them.
How do you dress that?
Because as much as boys need help females that are
masking need even more help so that they can kind
of blend in and get to know themselves.
How do you handle that?
Yeah, I'm not doing as you say this. Yeah, absolutely,
you're correct. It's so important because the females are absolutely
musking and that's very challenging on a daily basis. But
before I answer that question, yeah, I do work predominantly
would with families that have boys that they're worried about, right,
the younger boys, and then if I'm working with adults,
it's mainly absolutely the male right. Yeah, And yeah, I'm
going to say unfortunately, because I guess I'm not sure
if I could say lack of awareness I've done, if
that's the right answer. A lot of the females are
asking carrying this heavy burden day to day in and
day out, where they just get on with it, right,
and they think that they can do this and be
okay and not seek help exactly, But actually by the
end they get so tiring and it's so heavy on
their party that it could lead to other things like
anxiety and depression, which you know we want to avoid.
So to seek that help is important. And just like
you know, how I talked about working with you know,
young gentlemen or boys. It's giving them accommodations, it's making
things easy for them to manage the day to day
and that's that's exactly what we would do with the ladies,
the young ladies or the female but they just, yeah,
they don't often come forward and say we need help.
Right.
I've spoken with I don't know three or four different
different females that have got diagnosed later in life, and
the challenges they went through that they told me about
was pretty astounding. A couple of them got diagnosed in
their thirties, and one as late as forty five, and
she said that once she got diagnosed and realized what
was going on, and she acclimated herself to the new
environment that she was going to have to do, she
said her fifties was just tremendous. Now she's just getting
ready to turn sixty. So it seems to be a
real challenge for females to get out there and bross
that line of saying, you know, I need some help.
You know, that's something I think we need to definitely
be more aware of and make more people aware of
so that hopefully the parents will notice something different that
could lead them to say, you know, maybe I need
to get my daughter some help.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, agree, absolutely, And I think it's the
stigma around it as well that sometimes becomes quite challenging.
And I think females in generally so smart and masking
things that parents just don't see it. They overlook a
lot of different things, right, whereas boys, I think they
can just in the young in the early years, it's
a behavior and they often are looking at the behavior
and it's seeking a lot of tension that they then
see there's something in between there and there's something that
they need to get help with, right, yeah.
Right, Exactly what would you tell people that either just
newly diagnosed or thinking about getting their kids diagnosed. What's
something that you would tell them right up front to
kind of take that pressure off of them that yeah, okay,
you may think that something's wrong, but this is something
that people have to deal with on a daily basis.
How do you address that so that you can kind
of put them at ease even though they're going through
some turmoil.
Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think when
it comes to diagnosis, a personal choice of having your
child diagnosed, there's different reasons why parents have their child
diagnosed or some don't have their child diagnosed. Right on
a personal level, and you asked me, I would say,
you know, having a child diagnosed be for me, and
my personal opinion, would be the best thing because you
know where to go after that, you know what to do,
you know how to navigate that journey you're on. Right
when I hadn't had my son diagnosed, I was all
over the place. You know. Sometimes I would say, oh,
you know, I think it's his autism behavior or I
think to see him playing up. But then the minute
I had him diagnosed, I knew exactly what it was
and what I had to do. So I kind of
created that roadmap of working with him and setting certain goals,
hitting those goals, moving to the other goals, and just
giving him that support that he needed. Without a diagnosis,
I think we would all be very lost because there
would have been answers as he's getting older, he would
have been seeking answers for himself and not knowing where
he is in society and where he stands. And when
it comes to parents, Tony, I would say, my honest
advice would be try not to live this journey alone.
I did for many many years. It was just myself
and my husband trying to figure out what to do.
And we thought that we were the only parents on
this entire planet going through this, and there's nobody else
who's experiencing it. And it was very, very isolating and
sometimes very ugly because it would, you know, mean we
were down, we had anxiety and I mean really hitting
the world of depression because we just felt so isolated.
So I would say to parents who you know who
would like to have their child, child diagnosed or are
thinking about it, just seek how you know, seek help, right,
look around for a community, talk to other people. Yes,
professionals know what they're doing, but professionals are not living
the life that you're living. And talk to other families.
They have that lived experience, and it makes a huge
difference when you're sharing that burden, right, and just experience
you know that you're you know, what your experience on
a daily basis. It really helps connecting with other people.
And I think that's a really that's the first and
foremost thing to do.
Okay, now you brought it up earlier, which I think
we need to address this. The average person that lives
in the world that doesn't have any problems, they see
kids having meltdowns. They don't understand the difference between a
meltdown and just a kid having a tantrum. How do
you explain the difference to people that don't know or
newly diagnosed parents that have found their kids that their
kids might have meltdowns, but there's a difference between a
meltdown and a tantrum.
Yeah, yeah, that's a very good point. I think. I
think we need to remember when a child is having
a meltdown or does any form of behavior that's not appropriate,
it's a form of communication. They actually trying to communicate,
you know, communicate with us through their behavior. We need
to look in between the lines. We need to see
what it actually is going on. Any kind of meltdown
that's taking place, it's there's something there, there's a reason
why it's happening. So the first thing is parents, we
need to address it, and we need to understand firstly
why it's happening and what are the reasons behind it.
So looking at the triggers is important, seeing how it started.
So going back to any kind of situation that's maybe
you know, changed or that's different Addressing that and understanding
what's going on and then working on how to the
child is really important. I think ignoring a meltdown is
not healthy in any way. Once you understand what's going
on and you understand why they're having this meltdown, it's
then trying to figure out how to provide that right
support for them. Right.
Is there anything that we haven't touched upon that you
think is important that you'd kind of like to put
out there.
I mean, really, just a message, don't see your child
as anyone less than the newer typical child. If we can,
if we as parents or even as individuals and society
understand that a child who's neurodivergent, their brain is why differently,
that's it. If we can just understand that, then we
will be placing our children in a much safer and
accessible world, because the minute we kind of create these
barriers for our child, we're not giving them opportunities that
they deserve. If you can just understand that they're different,
but not less, the world would be a much safer
place for them to grow in and to thrive because
there's so much that they can bring. I mean, from
first time experiences my own child there's so much he
can bring and bring into the society. If I just
think about a one child and the wonderful things that
he's doing, there's many children like him. So if we
just change our mindset, we can make a huge difference
and really provide the opportunity for them.
Yeah.
I think that's great because it just comes down to understanding. Yes,
my slogan is autism, awareness, acceptance, and understanding. The word understanding,
and I think that's probably the most important word that
we can find so that people can understand the differences
between kids that aren't autistic and kids that are, so
that they can realize that just because they're different doesn't
mean that they can't succeed in life.
Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, And I always say and I love
the fact that you've put understanding because we can have
so much of an awareness, right, the awareness can go
on for years and years and years and years and years,
but then we can have the acceptance. But how do
we accept. We can't accept until we understand exactly we
can't accept someone who we see different and then you know, say, okay,
we accept you, but without any understanding. So we need
to understand. And my thing, my thing Tony would be
you for the understanding. Mine would be the educating because
we could we could be shouting and we could be
screaming and seeing. Please accept our children, understand they're different.
But unless we don't educate them, you know, we're not
going to get anywhere, which is why my business came along.
Because when I used to go into schools and I
was so emotionally attached to my son, I wasn't advocating
actually for him. I was shouting and getting upset, and
the teachers didn't want to know me. They didn't want
to listen to me because I was coming across, you know,
this mad mother who's a helicopter mom and doesn't what
she's doing with her son. But the minute I realized, actually,
no need to I need to advocate my son. That's important.
They're going to listen to me and I do that,
and they did.
That's great.
You know, that's when things changed. So I realized, Okay,
rather than just awareness and acceptance, we need to do
the education part as well. Hence my training. So now
my trainings and you know, I was doing the trainings
and I realized, okay, how can I validate my trainings
and That's when I thought, Okay, they can be CPD
approved because they have that validation that stamp the certification.
And that's what I do. I just want to make
a difference through education.
That's really awesome. I understand that you're writing a book.
Can you expand on that a little bit.
I've actually written a book. It's with the illustrators now,
but it's about out. So my son, he was the
reason why I started and mention this in the podcast.
The reason why I noticed everything was because he was
fixated with vacuum cleaners, and he would play with vacuum
cleaners all the time. He wouldn't just play the typical
way like with a toy vacuum cleanan, but he would
actually open it up and start looking at the functionality
of the vacuum cleaner, and then he would put the
pots back together again. So he'd break it and put
it back together again without worrying if there's a toilet's broken.
You know, kids often cry when the toy is broken, right,
anything that would break, you would say, they'll have fix it,
they'll have fix it. So he would literally go and
fix it. So you had this very engineering kind of mind.
And yeah, so you know, that's when I noticed because
he was so fixated with certain things, and the vacuum
cleaner being one of them. The book is about, you know,
his passionate about vacuum cleaners and love about vacuum cleaners
and it's superpower. So the book is for school children
and it's to raise awareness in an educational setting about
the love that he has vacuum cleaners and how he
saves a day because he's so knowledgeable about it.
That's just so awesome.
Yeah, if someone wants to get a hold of you
and you might need help or whatever, what's the best
way for contact?
So yeah, So the social media would be Instagram coaching
with ozma or LinkedIn again coaching with ozma, and just yeah,
personally messaged me on both platforms would be fine. And
that can also share my email advice.
Okay, all right, that's great.
I really do appreciate you taking the time to come
on to my podcast.
Thank you so much for having me Tony.
It's been my pleasure.
Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule
to listen to our show today.
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