Kathy & Susan on Plastic Surgery and Divorce | Golden Hour

00:00:07
Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody to Bachelor Happy Hours, Golden the Hour. We're back again, and thanks so much for joining us again. Kathy, are you so excited to be here?

00:00:17
Speaker 2: I mean, I am so happy to be here. I am all decorated for Christmas. I am done with Thanksgiving. I'm on to the next holiday. I'm healthy, I've been sick, I'm healthy again. It's all good, all good, it's all good. Okay. Today we're going to get into making big decisions, whether it's cosmetic breakups or anything in between. And you know, Susan, a lot goes in to making tough choices. And I hate to say this, but as you and I get older, it seems like we have maybe less decisions, but they seem bigger. Does that make sense?

00:01:01
Speaker 1: I don't know. If there's less, I don't know.

00:01:03
Speaker 2: I felt the decisions I make are momentous.

00:01:06
Speaker 1: Like they're different maybe than when we were raising kids, but they're still decisions.

00:01:13
Speaker 2: If you will, all right, well, tell me what's the biggest decision you've made lately?

00:01:22
Speaker 1: I mean not to scream at my daughter when I was visiting.

00:01:27
Speaker 2: Let me help you all out here. As you all know, Susan is a clean freak. We're going to cut to the end of this story. Her daughter is not and Susan my granddaughter.

00:01:37
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, it was our thirteenth birthday. I scrubbed from morning until dus.

00:01:43
Speaker 2: Okay, so your big decision to not scream. But the other big decision you made, which I don't think is a big decision at all, is to clean the house instead of spending time with your family. You made the decision to clean.

00:01:54
Speaker 1: Her had I couldn't relax. But then I did spend time with them, of course, but you know, teen year olds aren't always happy. Yeah, and that's a lot. And then to make another decision. My daughter went all out and did this surprise, and Bella comes home from school and she was miserable, and Brittain's like, really, Bella, really, and I want it so badly to put my two cents in there, but yeah, it's not.

00:02:22
Speaker 2: Okay, So you are you are reading my mind. One of the biggest decisions that I have faced. It's a it's a it's a decision category if you will, about children. When do we can we when should we say things to our children and our grandchildren because our children are now adults, right and we went for me deciding when to speak up to my kids and say you're doing this wrong.

00:02:54
Speaker 1: I'll give you one example, tell me something you actually refrain, yes, and say that because you don't with anybody else that I see.

00:03:04
Speaker 2: Well, i'll tell you. I after talking to my kids and realizing that I am always going to be their mother, I'm always going to be my children's mother, but my role has changed. And so the way I make decisions about spending time with my kids, watching the way they live. The truth is it really takes a lot now for me to say you're doing that.

00:03:33
Speaker 1: Wrong or you don't say that period.

00:03:36
Speaker 2: Well, no, I actually do. My daughter, lets my two year old two and a half year old granddaughter, She used to let her sort of wander around eating off whatever, just kind of wandering around the floor eating And I said to her, you know, you really should have her sit in her high chair. She needs to learn that. Well, it's where you eat, but it's also a social time. It's where you interact with your family. There's more down And she kind of looked at me because I don't speak up very often. You know, kids have the right to raise their children. Yeah, and so for me making My big decision, if you will, was making the decision to zip it, zip my mouth and not say very much unless my kids ask me, and occasionally they do.

00:04:32
Speaker 1: My big decision do I need to purchase that? Do I really need this?

00:04:37
Speaker 2: Susan? Come on now, fess up.

00:04:39
Speaker 1: I just fascinated and that decision is always on my side.

00:04:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, Susan always needs it. Those are never big decisions for Susan. It's a matter of how fast you can click the button purchase. Okay, what about as we've gotten older, you and I We've made no bones about it. We've both done some cosmetic surgery. I'm thinking about doing some more. But let's was that hard for you to decide to do it?

00:05:06
Speaker 1: Absolutely not me either, because it's something I want once again.

00:05:12
Speaker 2: Okay, So to me, my experience in talking to people about it is you can do cosmetic surgery for a few reasons. One could be for yourself you feel better. And that's our reason. I know, because you and I've talked about it. We do it because it makes us feel better. Other people do it because they want to attract a man or a partner, or they want a job where they think they have to look old. Or they're afraid of getting old. For me, it wasn't a hard decision to do it because I knew it would make me feel better.

00:05:48
Speaker 1: And look, I think, and I disagree with that statement you made. You think some people do it to attract the man or get a job. The only reason they're doing it is for them to feel better about themselves. Then if they feel better, they will attract the man or get the jobs.

00:06:09
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not saying they won't feel Maybe I'm misstated. I'm not saying they won't feel better. I'm saying they feel pressure to do it. For you know, we have a culture in our in our world, in our society of youth. Everything has to be youth.

00:06:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially if you're on TV.

00:06:27
Speaker 2: Well in general in the workplace. You know how many old newscasters do you see women? We see older men. We don't see older women. We live in a youth culture and so we're all chasing that eternal fountain of youth.

00:06:43
Speaker 1: But when you put your age down, you can't cosmetically change that. Your age is your age.

00:06:50
Speaker 2: Well, your age is your age. But I'm saying the way people view you. So if you if someone looks at you and you and I have had this conversation for for me decided to do that lower facelift with you. First of all, I hate to say it, but I thought, oh, this will be an adventure with Susan. It was like, this will be fun. I mean, I never you know, I used to make jokes about I could never have a facelift. Could you imagine if I did and I died?

00:07:15
Speaker 1: I said that.

00:07:15
Speaker 2: You actually said listen, But I'll tell you.

00:07:18
Speaker 1: I used to say, I can't wait.

00:07:20
Speaker 2: I used to say it, I'll tell you why because I thought if I die on the table, god forbid. Could you imagine my children, my mother, she thought she had to go get a facelift, and now we're burying her. And of course I now I'm like, oh, well that happens. It happens.

00:07:35
Speaker 1: But for me, I think it impacts people's self esteem.

00:07:41
Speaker 2: I can't speak for anyone but me. I feel better when i'm fit, I feel better when I have makeup on, I feel better when I look my best. So for me, I think you and I were being honest. We are all. I have bought in to the youth society to a degree. I don't just still looks I do it with health, eating right, working out, all those things.

00:08:09
Speaker 1: Eating might'll never be in my vocabulary, but I eat good and bad. But like, for instance, when we went Kathy, I thought, okay, it's time I gotta do this. And it's just the minor one that what do they call it? A lifestyle?

00:08:22
Speaker 2: A lower just the lower.

00:08:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not that invasive, but I mean it's still surgery. But I never realized when I watched one of the Bachelor episodes from before and then I saw myself on got to get out. When I saw my face, I go, oh, my gosh, thank god I did that.

00:08:46
Speaker 2: Listen, it could have been worse. When I was on Paradise. I could have worn a bikini and then everyone would have said she needs to cut all her skin tied up over her head like a knot like a panteos and cut them.

00:08:57
Speaker 1: But no, Seriously, after our surgery, did you feel like, oh I look amazing.

00:09:01
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't.

00:09:02
Speaker 1: It was a slight thing. But when after seeing myself, I go, oh, it was more than it looks way back.

00:09:08
Speaker 2: Well, you and I I think we can round this conversation up by you and I do it because it makes us feel better. I want to ask you because I don't have this in my life, and I've always wanted to ask you this. Today's the day, boy, So my husband died. There was no decision for me to make people our age. Even even now, people are still making the choice to get divorced at any age thirty, forty, fifty, sixty, seventy. I want to know, if you're comfortable talking about it, how did you make that tough decision to get divorced? And let me before you answer any decision you make my husband's suicide. It didn't just affect me. It's a effect, right. It affects my children, our friendships, everything. When you divorced your husband, what did you consider? I mean, of course you did, but talk to me about the considerations in making that decision.

00:10:14
Speaker 1: So a lot of people realized that the marriage is not going to make it, and I did many many years ago. But I made the decision to hang in and pretend till my children were out of high school. I sometimes kicked myself for it. Maybe I would have found, you know, love of my life when I was in my forties, or you know whatever. But I made that decision because we weren't people that argued or fought. We both grew different ways and we're still friends today. So to answer your question, I didn't make the decision. I didn't follow through. I wish I had my life. Although I've had a good life, I don't know what it would have been like with three kids on my own.

00:11:05
Speaker 2: Well, so you thought it sounds like you're saying you made the decision to stay because you thought it was in the best interest of your children. Absolutely, and so that was your decision making process.

00:11:17
Speaker 1: When my boys when we finally did actually separate, we weren't even divorced yet, and my boys came up to me and said, Mom, why did you wait so long? We knew you've been unhappy for a long, many many years. And I go, what because of you? Guys?

00:11:32
Speaker 2: I mean?

00:11:33
Speaker 1: And they go, Mom, you didn't have to do that. Like it's funny how your kids don't even you. Don't you think you know what's going through their heads but we don't.

00:11:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I totally agree with that. Did you get any therapy before or after the divorce?

00:11:53
Speaker 1: Not before after? Yes, I've gone to therapy a couple different times for a while in my life. What I found with therapy and that's that. We could do a whole podcast on that one, Kathy. But I was answering my own questions, like, you know, I know what to do. It's getting me to stop being stuck on stupid and not making the same decision over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

00:12:23
Speaker 2: Right, Well, I think, I mean, I again, I'm not divorced, so but I feel like divorce again is one of those ripple effect things. And I wondered, I mean, I had to go through a lot of therapy.

00:12:37
Speaker 1: Because well, you didn't get a divorce.

00:12:39
Speaker 2: No, but when my husband took his life and I found him, I need a little bit of therapy there. But I feel like today, I don't know if it's just our age that the some of the stressors that we have in our life. We look at the issues our children have, our grandchildren, and you know, I just wondered, like, so, you didn't do any therapy your divorced. Do you think it's because so common now?

00:13:04
Speaker 1: No, because I don't hold things in. I talk about things. I think that for me personally, the best people that need therapy are the ones that hold everything in and they don't talk about their issues. That's why you need a therapist to get it out.

00:13:21
Speaker 2: For me to help? What about to help make different decisions?

00:13:25
Speaker 1: It didn't work. I still make.

00:13:28
Speaker 2: Okay like I have and Kathy.

00:13:31
Speaker 1: How what is it like to break up a relationship or end of connection when no one does anything wrong? There's not like.

00:13:39
Speaker 2: A you you got divorced. You stayed with them and then one day you decided because I.

00:13:47
Speaker 1: Knew it wasn't right.

00:13:49
Speaker 2: And how did you know?

00:13:50
Speaker 1: Relationship? I know what makes me tick, I know what makes me happy. I've always been a giver, and you hit a point where you realize I'm not that happy? What am I doing? Why am I here?

00:14:10
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I can't. For me, I didn't have that. I mean it sounds to me that you stayed married because you thought you were doing your kids a favor, which I think most people who divorce after the kids go. Most people say they wish they had divorced earlier, and so I think.

00:14:29
Speaker 1: Not the norm, like our house wasn't. I hear a lot of people, like ex husbands are going to bring their new wife or girlfriend to their child's wedding, and I won't go because of this. I can't go without a man like they're bitter, they don't speak highly of each other. I mean, I get it, some of divorces are because of really terrible reasons. But don't you graduate from that and forgive like you had a life together, you had children together.

00:14:59
Speaker 2: I don't know, I can't some kind of respect. I don't know, because obviously I've not been in this situation. I think sometimes the hurt and the disappointment runs so deep that you forgive, though I don't know, because I'm not.

00:15:15
Speaker 1: Imagine somebody doing you really wrong as.

00:15:18
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry, someone does me wrong, Susan gets your baseball, beat it and take care of me, help me, I think. I mean, it's always I think the hurt.

00:15:28
Speaker 1: Will always be there, but you have to be civil, especially if you have children. I don't understand divorce couples with families that can't get along and can't be in the same room at the same time.

00:15:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I I again, my parents were divorced and it was the Maybe maybe that's why I'm the way I am. Maybe that's why I work so hard to make my marriage work. My parents. For all you people have watched the movie War of the Roses, my parents.

00:15:56
Speaker 1: Could they be in the same room together after.

00:16:00
Speaker 2: Could have? My mother was absolutely a lunatic and could not. And by the way, when I say my mother, I mean my real mother, because as you know, my stepmother is who I consider who I considered my mother, and she was lovely. But I think that I don't know. I think that everyone today faces tough decisions. People change jobs more often now, I mean our fathers. My father changed jobs I think twice or maybe three times in his entire career. A lot of people just now, people are just constantly moving.

00:16:36
Speaker 1: Do you think it's because of getting laid off or I live.

00:16:40
Speaker 2: I think it's all of the above. I think, you know AI tech, that there's so many career opportunities now that did not exist when when we were coming up. And I think that people have to be more fluent in their careers. Some careers are drying up because AI will take over those jobs that they had so.

00:17:00
Speaker 1: Got You can't get a human on the phone, no matter what company you're calling. It takes twelve minutes. I time them, yeah, and they I mean listen.

00:17:08
Speaker 2: But imagine having a family. I grew up in the same house. Imagine having a family talk about a stressor talk about a big decision. You know, I look at my kids. My son changed jobs recently. You know, he went through a divorce. He is now married to the most fabulous woman, but he had a career change. My daughter, her husband, they're they're always talking about living here, living there. You know, she loves her job. Where should we live? How important is family? I think kids today, and when I say kids, I mean adults. Young adults face pressures that. Maybe that's why I started this podcast saying our decisions aren't as difficult. I think our children face a much more uncertain future because so many things are changing because careers.

00:18:06
Speaker 1: But you've got to understand that they're growing up with these changes too much more than we did like and they will see big changes, big like we thought were big. However, for them it just kind of rolls.

00:18:21
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I don't know about that. I think I think, uh, it's trying, It's I can only speak about the young people I know, and I talk to them a lot, about my daughter's friends. They're they're trying to figure out next steps. Given where the jobs are, that where the job markets are. You know, who's laying off where is the next place to get into? You know, for a while it was it was tech, it was cybersecurity. Now it's a it's constantly evol depends, and I think that is stretchful. What would you say, you know you have older well, actually I have one older grandchild than you. What do you say to your teenage grandchildren if they ask you about you did not go to college? I did. What would you say to your grandchildren.

00:19:09
Speaker 1: I went to a trade school?

00:19:11
Speaker 2: Though, No, no, no, I'm what you say to them about.

00:19:14
Speaker 1: I always talk about college and what is it you might want to do. And the first thing out of Julian's mouth was, man, I can't wait. I'm going to I'm leaving. I'm going to go to college. Really you think it's a party. Well, a lot of the grades you have right now, son, you might not get in.

00:19:31
Speaker 2: So let me tell you. You know, I was an educational consultant at my own business for thirty five years. I've spent a lot of time talking to teenagers about career paths.

00:19:41
Speaker 1: I just try to figure out what it is that they like. Well, I would highly recommend doing something you enjoy that you're interested in.

00:19:49
Speaker 2: Right, But here's the deal. The ideal situation is to find a job that you love, because then going to work isn't going to work. It's a joy. But not everyone has that luxury. I think college courses are going to look different. I think that the way you get jobs are going to look different. Just the way people find partners today. You know, they don't meet them at bars as much, it's online. I think career paths. What I always say to kids is try to find something you love. But I also think, thankfully I'm retired, but still some people call me and say, you know, my kids, they just don't know what they're doing. They're not sure what to major, and they're not sure to go.

00:20:34
Speaker 1: That's a lot of pressure when when they're on decide, they don't know what they want to do.

00:20:44
Speaker 2: You know what, I really think the big decisions that kids have to make are being foisted upon them way too early in life. I think that in today's world we need to give grace to teenage. The world is evolving at a much quicker pace than it did for us, and kids need a little bit more time as young adults to figure out their power.

00:21:11
Speaker 1: What the stage are you talking like high school? You don't start talking in high school.

00:21:16
Speaker 2: No, no, no, you talk.

00:21:17
Speaker 1: You might want to do so you can study for it and you go to it. I don't think you know college. I don't think so you just take your core subject.

00:21:26
Speaker 2: I believe in varied experiences. I think. I'm not saying, you know, every summer send them to Europe on a vacation. I'm not saying that. I think that kids. I think. Let me back up, I think adults have the best chance of making good decisions if as children and teenagers, they're given the opportunity to think problems through, assess situations and try to make a good decison.

00:22:00
Speaker 1: For the most teenagers, that's where it is our.

00:22:03
Speaker 2: Job to happen. That's where it's our job to help them. And and you know what, there's the share it with you. Well, that's true. There's very few big decisions in life that are not irreversible. That is my belief, you know. And so I think fear stops a lot of people from making big decisions, whether I mean we started out with cosmetic surgery and then moved on to divorce, job changes. I think that it's okay to say I made a mistake. I learned from it. I'm going to pivot from here and I'm going to do something different. And I think the sooner kids realize, kids, young adults realize it's okay, you're We're not looking for a perfection here. And I think that's why there's so much stress among young people today. They feel like you just said, let's talk in high school. Figure your trade square No, no, no, what is its experience?

00:23:03
Speaker 1: I can prove your right because so many people that would assist me in cosmetology, okay, in the salon, you couldn't get your own chair until you worked under somebody for two years. And I would watch them and listen to them and teach them, and you know how many picked the wrong thing after their parents paid. And it's not cheap to do that either. But they go, I don't want to do this right, but I don't you know why this that what made you want to in the first place, though, Try to get out of them. And she's a dental hygienist or assistant now or something. And other people come to us from doing corporate world jobs and say, oh my gosh, I cannot take the corporate world. I am too free. If you will freelance kind of person in my world. That's how we were so that world fit better and you're more successful because you get to be who you are, right, And that's a good point.

00:23:59
Speaker 2: Kathy, Yeah, well, and I do think you know, as parents, that's something I hope to instill in my grandchildren. Again, big decisions now look different. I talk to my granddaughter all the time about reading and how, just for an example, how reading takes you into your imagination. You go to visit places you might never see, but reading opens up world to you. Can you tell I was an educator. Reading opens up worlds to you that you might never see otherwise. And I feel like if we as kids can, sorry, if we as parents and grandparents can offer experiences and teach our kids that big decisions are not always made the first time around.

00:24:44
Speaker 1: You're right, You're right. Sometimes it takes you a couple of times. You see me put my finger on my nose, cat because I didn't want to interrupt. I don't know about you guys out there listening, but has anyone ever told you, you know, when you're speaking or somebody you're having a conversation like Kathy and I are, and you don't wanted to interrupt and a thought comes in your head. How many of us just blurred it out and interrupt But I always had a reason for that, because I would forget what I was going to say.

00:25:11
Speaker 2: Well, one, I guess it was.

00:25:13
Speaker 1: About the year and a half, two years ago, maybe longer. Somebody said to me, Susan, when you have that thought, put your finger on the tip of your nose. So I'm walking around my finger.

00:25:27
Speaker 2: Nine times a what's thought?

00:25:30
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to forget because I just explained it.

00:25:34
Speaker 2: I know that's case.

00:25:37
Speaker 1: If one of your children, older children, married children, decided that they're thinking about ending their marriage and they came to you for advice.

00:25:48
Speaker 2: My son did what's your question?

00:25:52
Speaker 1: I don't think you were crazy about that first wife, that's a no brainer. But what kind of conversation and what help? How did you help him make decision? Not that you would be the deciding factor.

00:26:03
Speaker 2: But well, uh, you're right. Actually, when Kyle got divorced, he came to me and said it was a feedacomplete. He had decided to get divorced, And you're right.

00:26:15
Speaker 1: And he was just telling you or was he asking your own?

00:26:18
Speaker 2: He? But we had talked about marriage. I've talked to my kids about marriage before they got married. I talked to my daughter a lot now about the mistakes I made and now you're gonna make me cry. I talk about the mistakes I made in my marriage that I can't fix because he's gone. And I talked to her about again. You know, the biggest decision that I when I'm talking to my kids, the biggest decision I say to them is think about is this really that important? So that's what I say to them. I try to guide them to think not. I me back up. I don't tell them what to do anymore. I try not to. I try to give them in.

00:27:06
Speaker 1: Your head, do you feel a certain way? Like if you felt a certain way, would you let it be known?

00:27:11
Speaker 2: Like I don't know. What I don't. What I try to do is say I'm making it up. I'll just use my daughter, Caitlin, who has a fabulous husband and I love him and they're happy. But he's he's better than a good guy.

00:27:24
Speaker 1: He's But even if we love somebody that I might struggle with something, and so.

00:27:29
Speaker 2: I would I would tell my daughter to help her make that decision. Ultimately it's her decision, but I would try to hold up a mirror to her of what she's saying. What I'm hearing her say? What? What are the issues? In other words, I would try to get her to talk about it if that were the case.

00:27:49
Speaker 1: There I go again. Sorry, I just put my finger on my nose. That was a very very good point. Again in a different world, when I just love, what did you just say?

00:28:01
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, trying to talk to my daughter about asking her questions as opposed to telling her what to do.

00:28:08
Speaker 1: And I remember going to my dad and crying, saying, Dad, I'm not happy. I am not happy. And he would give me no advice one way or the other, because you know, he loved VICKI and my kids and me, And he said, Susan, is the grass greener on the other side? Are you going through something like to make me think? Like you just said, you held a mirror to her. And that's when I put my finger on my nose. Because my clients, if you were my guests, that would come to me and tell me what they want with their hair, okay, right, and I would repeat it back to them and they go, no, that's not what I mean. I said, Well, that's what I heard. So you're right on the money by making her listen into herself right.

00:29:01
Speaker 2: And I think in the end, we all have big decisions to make in life. We all do, and I think we all have to accept sometimes we make the right one. Sometimes we make the wrong decision, and sometimes we don't know. We make a decision and we hope for the best and we take the path that we think will lead us to where we want to go. But you know what, sometimes you have to pivot. Sometimes you make the wrong choice, and that's okay. The biggest thing is picking up the pieces, moving on and making the next best choice you can.

00:29:38
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I do, make the wrong decision, always wearing the cool ass shoes that.

00:29:45
Speaker 2: Hurt all night long. Wait, I love you. We're having this serious podcast about and Susans. Susan's talking about should she part her hair on the left or the right?

00:29:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, you notice I went the other way to that, Kathy.

00:30:04
Speaker 2: I mean when it comes down shoes, I mean shoes, hair and makeup. Is there really any other conversation and facelifts?

00:30:10
Speaker 1: And if they always wanted to get a tell me tuck and he won't give me one?

00:30:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you don't, I said, Well, it's Biga go stop eating, and that is the big decisionssan stop. Look, this has been too much fun, but that's going to do it for this episode of Bachelors Hours Golden Hour.

00:30:30
Speaker 1: And please let us know what you think about this talk today. I'm sure people have their opinions and decisions that they're making, and you know what. Thank you so much all for joining us again, and make sure to follow us on Bachelor Happy Hour as we have new episodes coming out every week and you don't want to miss them.

00:30:47
Speaker 2: That's right, And the big decision we want you to make this week is to submit your questions to us. All you got to do is go to bachelornation dot com, slash Golden Hour, or hit us up on socialis Bachelor Happy Hour.

00:31:00
Speaker 1: Absolutely listen