Cruel Intentions with Jackie Johnson

00:00:00
Speaker 1: On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef and best start changing it with the beck del Cast. Hello, and welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus and my name is Caitlin Dronte, and this is our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. You bet you, We talk you, Yeah, you bet you. Hey quick plug at the top of the show. What I know So not like crazy, but we have an important announcement that you may or may not already know about. But we're doing a bunch of live shows coming up. Yeah, get used to it. We're and and and and here's the twist. It's on both coasts, both coasts. Yes, we've got our East Coast. Are three days super tour coming up on the East Coast starting Saturday, November three in Philadelphia at Good Good Comedy Theater, which by the way, is run by past guest of the show, Kate Bamford. Yes it is. We're covering Waiting to Exhale with guest Aaron Whack at that show and then on Sunday, November four, we're doing a show in Washington, d C. Surprise, we're doing two shows, but one of them already sold out, so what's the point of even plugging that one? But there are still tickets left for the show that's on Sunday November four at three thirty pm and afternoon show after Bring Me a Mike's Baby. That one's at the Drafthouse Comedy Theater in Washington, d C. Uh And we're going to be covering The Nightmare Before Christmas with guest Natalie McGill. And finally, Monday, November five, in New York City, as part of the New York Comedy Festival, we are covering The Princess Diaries with Marshall bell Ski at Baby's all right, so we're stoked for that too. Yes. So for for tickets and more details, you can go to our website becktel Cats dot com, click on the live appearances tab and everything you need to know. We'll be there see there. Oh and then also the other coast, the West coast. Oh yeah, okay, So we also have a show on Saturday, November ten in Los Angeles at the Ruby, where we'll be covering the fifth Elements. I've never seen it with our guest and friend, Danielle Radford. She's the best, So for tickets to that show. Also got to bechtel cast dot com and click on live appearances and if you live in the middle of the country, let us know where we should be performing and we'd love to see you. Yeah, all right, kisses, bring me my hard lamon name. So we talk about the portrayal of women in movies, we use the Bechtel test to just give us a jumping off point. The Bechtel Test for us is a test that you apply to movies. It requires that there are two female identifying characters with names. They have to speak to each other, and their conversation cannot be about men. Sounds like a real boring movie. I know women should not talk, and if they do talk, they better. Men should be demo it really quick. Let's demo it, Okay, Kaitlin, Hey Jamie, how's your soccer game? Yesterday? My soccer game went well? We won. I know you want to go again. I'm a fan. Thank you so much. The one and also the one time I went, someone got really very badly injured. So really a lot of a lot of juicy stuff at the soccer game, speaking of injuries that happened towards the end of something today's movie. So we're talking about cruel intentions. And here to join us in the conversation, we have a host of the Makeup and Beauty podcast, Match Beaute, Jackie Johnson Hippy. I'm so excited to discuss a movie that I'm embarrassed to say used to be a really important movie to me as a kid. I thought it was so good and funny. Don't be embarrassed. This is truly the story of this podcast. I mean, I'm ashamed rewatching this. I was just shaking my what did the kids say, shake my damn head? I was shaking my damn head. I couldn't believe this movie. I cannot wait to discuss it. So, Jackie, what's your history with this movie? I saw this movie in theaters. I do believe my mom bought tickets for me, and I want to say my best friend Lauren Marty, because my mom's like cool like that kind of like the cool mom. Yeah, so, you know, very open parenting style. Because I wanted to see pacy ak Joshua Jackson. I saw him on like MTV news, like Kurt Loder was like, Hey, what's up. There's a new movie out. You know, Joshua Jackson Star on the Rise, got this little part, and I said, I'm seeing that one please. So I went and saw it. I loved it. I thought it was hysterical. I love the music. I loved all the hot actors in it. I mean, I this movie up with a spoon. I quoted it all throughout my youth. I still, unfortunately have it memorized because long term memory it sticks. It sticks with Jaggie Ja so m I but I hadn't rewatched it in a while. And can I just say that this movie is very problematic now in any ways, and we're going to get into it, but damn, I'm just I'm telling you this is what women are shown. Of Course, we all have issues. Of course, we all have problems in the pagriarchy taking us down. I mean, this movie is complete garbage in terms of women and treatment and the me too movement and just god, I'm ashamed of everyone involved me I think, although I will say soundtrack on fleek. Soundtrack, I mean, like the Placebo song opening it up, color Blind, you know, coffee and TV by Blur Love Me by the Card Against. I mean, damn, the music is on point, but everything else it's upset down. That's going to be my new favorite thing. Whenever something completely baffling happens plot wise out of nowhere in a movie, I'm just gonna be like, do do do do? Do? Do Do? Do? Do? Do? The way it ends is so psycho. My My history with this movie is um just for for all you beg to land out there. Caitlin and Sammy and I hung out after the live show the other night, the Edward Scissorhands Show, and watched Cruel Intentions and Eight Chicken Wings and boy, that was my first time seeing I can't believe you wouldn't see it. Yeah, I don't know. How did you not say that I hadn't seen it? Yeah? And I saw it like away two days before our screening. It's so weird. So it was a huge I mean among my circle of friends and my culture, like growing up in like the late nineties, early two thousands in Dallas, suburb real Dallas, this movie was huge. We all quoted it, we watched it. I mean, I remember, like, let's all watch David Days and like we popp and Coral Intentions and have a laugh. So the fact y'all hadn't seen this, I'm sure I think we're the weird ones, though I think for sure. Yeah, I don't know how I missed it either, because in ninety nine I was thirteen, like I was the age prime demo, because I think I was like fourteen. Yeah, yeah, ninety nine is the year of teens lying to each other and making bets to have sex with other teens, because this is the year that cool Intentions comes out, that ten Things I Hate about You comes out, that She's All that comes out. So it's just like, what a time to be a lot, I know, and honestly a beautiful time. What a beautiful I mean, looking back, there were some damn issues, but I love that era. Being a kid of that era was such a perfect time to me. It was fun music day on the fashion, there was so so much of a blank when Andy two was thriving. It was SI to the movies. Though we're instanley problematic and influenced our young brain hundred percent. But yeah, somehow I missed Cruel Intentions. Didn't see it until last week, And this is I think the most insane movie we've covered on the podcast where it's like it's gets so problematic that I just grew numb and was just enjoying the ride because I was just like, this movie is a string of like really pithy sexual assaults. The whole movie is like quip quip, and now I'm coercing someone into sex who doesn't actually mean Sebastian is a fuck boy to a T. If you google funck boy, he'll come up, you know with that rama noodle j T Hair, I mean he This movie triggered me in so many ways, and let's talk about it, because damn it, I'm fired up Monday morning. I'm fired up for The one moment in the movie that really absolutely destroyed me is because a lot of the scenes that are supposed to be sexy in this movie are not sexy at all. They're completely like or for me. Anyways, There's that one scene where Sarah Michelle Geller is supposed to be like teasing Ryan Filippy, which is I love that. I'm just gonna say his name like that. Yeah, my mom thinks Ryan Phillippi's name was pronounced flippy like f l I P p y so so Sarah Michelle Geller is teasing quote unquote Ryan Philippe, and she's like laying on him sunny side up and just sort of like moving her body around on him like a limp noodle. And then he's like looking almost to camera with this like very disturbing erection phase. And it was the least sexy thing I've ever seen, is like this sunny side up gyration, and his hands on the body were like so like you could see the pressure he was putting on her, like palming her, like he wasn't groping her or even like softly caressing her. It was like a wet fish, just like slapping against her arm. It felt bad for both of them in that scene because like that was the kind of like supposed to be sexy scene where you're like, oh, there are thirty people in the room with them, and it shows she was America sweetheart at this moment. She was buff, being homophobic, being sociopath narcissists. Dare I say cruel? I mean this movie, let's tell Yeah, So let me do the recap of the story, which, oh god, okay, I'll do my best. So the story focuses on Catherine, which is Sarah Michelle Geller's character and Sebastian, which is Ryan Philippe. They are step siblings who lived together in New York City and they are like rich kid private school elites, and they are also the worst people in the world old Throughout the movie we see them like using people, they're manipulating people, and generally they have cruel intentions. Stop it, I believe it or not, it's not an ironic title. So Catherine meets uh cetile Selma Blair's character, who's Cell Blair by the way, in this movie playing a fifteen year old huh okay, had to get that out there. Yeah, that's Hollywood baby, Yeah, I mean that's egregious, that's wild yea. And in order to like compensate for the fact that she's playing a character over ten years and she actually is, but she's acting so obscenely childlike that it's she like overdid it, and it's just very distracting. Not to put some on blast, but really bad jobs. I really liked her performance as a when I saw it as a kid, I thought she was hyah paride. I mean they directed her to act like that, so it's really not on her. So Cecile is starting school with Katherine in the Fall, and Katherine does not like Cecil because she stole Katherine's boyfriend Court. So Katherine wants to ruin Cecil's reputation so that Court won't like her anymore. Right, boyfriend named after a place to play a sport. It's a super like old money name Court. Yes, I'm so lower middle class, but I had no idea. Never already my fair share of courts. They were all Fiji's, okay, all my Greeks out there. Oh boy. So now Katherine asks her stepbrothers Sebastian to seduce Cecile so that it ruins her goody goody reputation. Meanwhile, Sebastian is like, I'm tired of having sex with all these debutantes. They're so boring, So he wants more of a conquest and he learns about a net, which is Reese Witherspoon's character, who is also going to be starting at their school in the Fall. Reese is still great in this movie, is even though the dialogue is so cheesy and horrific at times, they all sell it. They do. They're committing to sure. That's why looking back at this movie, you're like, oh my gosh, what happened. So a nets whole thing is that she's a virgin and that she's waiting to have sex, presumably till marriage, or like at least till she finds someone who she's in love with. So Sebastian decides that he's going to make a net his conquest and take her virginity. And Katherine's all like, you can't do that. That's out of your league, even for you. So she's like, let's make a wager. If Katherine wins, she gets Sebastian's cool convertible car. If he wins, he can fuck her in any hole he wants. We need to, like every nineties teen movie is made of an a very sinister assaulted bet yes where it's she and then sings Sarah Michelle Geller in that sinister shot where she's like, what is what's the last? You like? Any She's like anyway, and then you're just like, I hate this. I like that she sex positive and confident in herself. Yes, and we'll talk about she gives like a monologue that's it's worth unpacking everywhere. Yes, yes for sure. Yeah, And then side note, Sebastian has a journal that he's keeping where he details all of his you know, like bets and lies and conquests and stuff with all these women. So you were saying it's an early incarnation of the mean Girls Burned, but I also feel it's sort of like his zanga or his tumbler. Yeah, analog or perhaps like journals, you know, like what what would be our equivalent? Right? Yeah, So now Sebastian, he's going, he's trying to seduce a net and she it is not having it at first, and then meanwhile, but wear her dad, don't worry, don't you don't you worry? One group at a time, right, Meanwhile, one nagging at a time, god, one monster. One just being in a pool exposing himself. Yeah, he's like, me, show you what we're implying is a horse's dick, but we don't actually see it. So there's no receipts on the size of Ryan Philippe's penis, but the butt is good. However, he is fully exposing himself without her consent, and she's like, oh this is and then he yells at her for her to turn around because the owners this movie fucking upset me. I no wonder I like had such an issue with you know, like when you're at a party and a guy like touches your lower back and you just kind of go along with it because you're like, well, I don't want to be rude. It's like, no wonder that should happened to me in my twenties because of this fucking movie. Right nowadays, if somebody did that, I go, hey, get your fucking hand off me. Anyway, keep going clearly sucking upset. This movie up set me. He's just going to be a therapy sessions, just like the movie is condescending to where did you know? It's in this scene like right after where Sebastian takes Cecil's virginity, there's a bowl of cherries next to the bed, and it's just like, come on right, sorry, I wonder what they're trying to say. They're okay. So meanwhile, Cecile, she's into her cellow teacher Ronald. Catherine's teaching sectial how to kiss so she can be good at kissing Ronald because we've got to please men, right, got to get that kiss. I'm a great kiss also, all of that a great kiss boy. Then Sebastian assaults Cecile, but that is not what the movie would have you believe happened. They think it's funny. Man, there's some goofy music playing in the background. There's some we should make a super good of, like assaults happening in movies with a goofy soundtrack. Benny Hill like, no, no, he's so this character that we are already supposed to be suspending or disbelieved to be, like, oh, she's fifty. The way that scene goes is he basically is like, you have to kiss me. He's like he says like yeah. He's like all I want is a kiss, and she's like, oh, that's all. She essentially wants to leave. She's like, I'm uncomfortable. I'm leaving because he's basically says, get naked. I want to take your picture. She says, I want to leave. He goes, you can't leave, traps her and blackmails her, I'm going to call your mom and tell her. So she's I'll do anything, Please don't tell my mom. Okay, well, let me kiss you. She goes, okay, I guess, and then he grabs the draw strong of her pants, pulls her pants down, and she's like, what are you doing, what are you doing? Clearly upset and he goes, you said I could kiss you and just starts going down and then a promise is a promise? Gilts her into it will unpack this whole scene in a moment, but it's upsetting up. Meanwhile, Annette and Sebastian are falling in love, like what, And then Katherine has sex with Ronald the cello teacher, and then Sebastian and finally have sex, which makes Katherine jealous because she's like, I thought I was going to have sex with my stepbrother, which she apparently wanted to do anywhere. So Katherine's like, oh, your reputation is going to be ruined Sebastian if you you know, blah blah blah. So he's like, you're right, I am going to tell Annette that I don't love her, and then she's like, you eightyot, you ran away from love the first chance you've got, just because you thought I was going to ruin your reputation. And then he's like, you're right, I'm an idiot. So he goes and tries to make amends with Annette, and then there's a crazy scene where he and Ronald get in a fist fight, he's thrown into traffic. He gets hit by a cab and not hard, and then in an accident that would maybe break a couple of ribs but not kill him, but he dies. The end of the movie is Catherine at like the funeral service, and she's like, oh my god, Oh how sad. And then there's something like bustling around in the crowd. She's like, what's going on? And then she goes outside and everyone has a copy of Sebastian's journal, which outs her as this horrible, manipulative kid, cruel intentioned woman. It also outs Sebastian as a horrible person, which no one seems to care about. And then it ends with Reese Witherspoon driving Ryan Phillippies creepy journal into the sunset because they're still in love. Even in Ryan Phillippes death, she still loves him. And somehow she got the pink slip for the car, which y'all never understand. How did he put that in his will knowing that he was going to get it by a m after meeting her a week ago, But somehow the bitch got the jag. She drives away with it and that's the end. So she won the bet. She actually I the fact that it's they're supposed to be. She's insulted in the journal we see it's like, stupid, bit, you won't fuck and then she's like, I love him forever and then drives away in his car. I was like, what the funk is this movie? Like, usually, when I'm seeing one of these movies for the first time, you can at least understand, like, oh, I understand, even though I find it to be problematic and fucked up, I can understand what this was supposed to have been viewed when it came out that I can't get there. I can't get to they're still in love. I think you know too far away, because I'm telling you I love this movie and I didn't see anything wrong with it. I'm ashamed to say that, but that's truly teenager truth. I mean, it's unfortunate that that's the culture that I grew up in, but that's what we were given to consume as media. And I thought this movie was hilarious, funny, I thought I was great, and I'm this movie sucks. It sucking, sucks, it sucks. And with with that, let's take a quick break and then we will be back to unpacked the intentions that are cruel and we're back, all right. So yeah, I mean where to jump in? How about within the first five minutes of the movie, Sebastian has revenge porn an innocent person. Yes, how about that, that's a good place to start. He assaults, I would argue his therapist verbally, sexually, and then he revenge points her daughter. Huh just because for no reason, just her fun. He says later that she did that because she was overcharging him for therapy, and so you know, how do you compensate for that? Is with human body? And it's oh, it's just horrible. So yeah, right away we learn about what a cruel intentioned man Sebastian is. And then the conversation that his therapist has with her daughter, who is played by Terror Reid, Terry's are like, he put nude pictures of me on the internet, And then her mom says, how could you be so stupid? So she's a victim blaming her own daughter. The Bechtel test passing exchange what they like, you dumb slut, your dumb slut, you dumb slut. And then Terry's like, Mom, are you there? She like that does pass its test, So yeah, that's gets up Sebastian's character pretty well. And then he continues throughout the rest of the movie to keep doing heinous things like this, except that he's the kind were rooting for. He does nothing to redeem himself at all. I would argue he gets hit by a car. That's the best thing he does in the whole movie is die. And this is one again one of those movies that it seems very prevalent in the eighties and nineties and and probably the two thousands as well, where it's like rich kids saying, like, my parents who love me and give me everything I want fuck them, like and and we're supposed to be like my hero just so bizarre. Well, we never meet their parents in this movie, so it's kind of hard to tell what their relationship is like. But it's still like we have to assume perhaps not great, perhaps not great. I think they're both seeking attention from a really sad place due to the fact that your parents can be rich and give you, you know, physically anything you want aunt but if they're not giving you attention and love, then you know, none of that matters, and I think that's clearly what's happening. The parents are off dealing with their own ship all the time, and the kids are desperately seeking attention, right literally fucking each other their sunny side up in each other. Like keep an eye on these kids. So I want to talk about the romantic pursuit, specifically of Sebastian pursuing a Net because she's heard that he has a bad reputation and she immediately doesn't like him. She says the line, it amazes me that someone is charming as you could be so manipulative, which they kind of go hand right, right. It's like Reads is supposed to be a smart character, right. And then in the first few scenes that we see her in talking to Sebastian, she is like, she seems smart, She is headstrong, She has like a value system that she is not wavering from. She calls him out on his book ship. You know. The first thing he does is when he they meet, she's on a horse, he literally grabs her body to get her off the horse for no reason. And she doesn't call him out. She kind of looks at him and goes thank you, which again that's what I would have done in this situation at her age, and I probably did, but pass me off. I wish you would have gone, hey, why don't you grab me? I can get off the horse on my own, right, you take my hand. He literally grow us her body. Yeah, oh do you need help. It's like he won't let one thing go by without being a fucking creeper in every way. It's awful. And then and characters like Reese's almost sucked me even more because it sells that like false idea of like, oh, this girl is smart, this girl is capable, which which is true. But then the second she can fall for a fucking psycho creep, she does immediately, which just sells the idea to like young smart girls of like, no, you should do this anyway. It's like you, you know, you can be sure, yet like girl power, you can be smart, but you still have to funk every creep who hits on you. Like it's just horrible. And part of the reason that she falls for him is because he's lying to her and he's having other people lie on his behalf about Oh, his reputation, it's bullshit. You know, he's actually a pretty nice guy. What do you think about his homophobic blackmail who could forget we'll unpack that. But then he's you know, pursuing her as a bet for most of the time, but then he actually does start to develop feelings for her. And then that's the movie asking us to be sympathetic to him and root for him because he's sofening up. He was a bad he was a cruel intentioned guy, but now makes one goofy face and he's like, you know what, I'm a changed man. But also he isn't. No, he's not, and to the very end of the movie, he's still being horrible to everyone around him. But again, this is the movie, like we are, the movie is asking us to root for him. He's our protagonists who were like, oh, I hope he succeeds, and even though he dies, we're supposed to feel something about it, or that's what the movie wants us to feel. And I'm sure you know, as a young teen who saw this movie, uh yeah, everyone was like, oh no, he died, that's so sad. Oh now the death is so weird. That death is so it's like lazy writing. It's a d sex market. Yeah, like, let's just kill him. And ever they were like, Okay, here we are. We're backed into a corner here, so we're gonna have him, you know, give her the journal. She's gonna read it, change your mind. She's on the street, she's looking for him. Uh what do we do, guys? I don't know. We can't buy a taxi cut in print. I mean, it's very lazy. I also don't understand how her receiving his journal makes her realize, oh, he does love me after all, because in the journal he explains his plan to manipulate her and steal her virginity. Yeah, and then she's like, cool, dude, dude, you know, you know, she's obviously very easily manipulated. I think he definitely added an addendum at the end that was like, but throughout this process, I actually felt for her, and I've changed and I feel terrible. And she accepted the apology, you know, so that's why that happened. But can I just say they showed a page of the book of his journal at the end, the photo copies. I paused TV. I couldn't read that ship. That was the worst handwriting I ever. It was like a doctor prescription, like scribble, and I was like, who fucking read this? Can any of these kids read this ship? I couldn't read a damn word of it, so who knows what he even said. But the takeaway of that journal is supposed to be Yah, Sarah Michelle Geller's a real bit like he gets let off the hook essentially why yeah? And then and then also there's like the teacher who comes up behind her and like takes away her coke necklace, which, narratively, how could he have seen that already? He hasn't come outside, But sure, fine, they're good. Plan didn't think about that. I mean when that happened in the theater, I remember just being like, yaw, queen, Like I was like, damn, revenge is a bitter fucking you know fish. I thought that was like the coolest I'm telling you, I ate that ship up. When he pulls out the scoop and it flies in the air and the look on her face, I was just like, yeah, drugs, look at you nowhere, man, Like I love them. The one good message of the movie. Yeah, although I did google, well, I didn't google, but I was like I want one of those. Not that I do coke, but I was like, I want like a drug necklace. That to me was a really exciting idea. Maybe I'll put my like my emergency powder in it. Yeah, your vitamin B twelve supplements to give you energy. Well, like Jamie, like you were saying, Sebastian has completely let off the hook, like he he is just as complicit and just as much of a villain. More. Yeah, I didn't see Sarah Michelle Geller rape anybody, because he assaulted Ceceeal. He is assaulted type yes, like and and and that's just the movie what we saw, Like imagine the back pages that book. A bunch of women at that school. How do you think they're feeling right now, because you know what I mean, like how horrible. Their whole lives were just blasted on front of everybody, and he out everyone, including himself. And this movie takes place over the course of three or four days, and so it's like he's been doing this for a little longer than that. But even so, maybe a week or two crazy because because he and rees haven't known each other for more than a little more than a week, maybe it's hard. Well that's I think this is other four School gets back. But at the beginning of the movie that Cecil was like, oh, Ronald's teaching me Cello over the summer, as if the movie takes place over the course of a whole summer. It's really it's unclear. It makes it seem like it's a few days. It could be as much as a month, or a couple of months, or right like a week. It's it's hard to tell. Probably not thinking about it that hard. In the people writing this movie, you're not concerned about consistency, the value of a human life. There's a lot of things they're not worried about. It's just insane to me. The movie poises Sebastian is like, oh, he redeemed himself, And I wonder if they made him die just to make him seem more sympathetic, because otherwise the story is Sebastian and a net ending up together. And then it's like, well, what does that relationship look like then, because like now she knows the truth, and like where do you go from? How do you build? I don't know the origin, I haven't read the source material, but does that character get hit by a taxi and they give their journal out or how? I don't know. Cruel Intentions is adapted from a novel by a man whose name is so French that I cannot beare something it was written in seventeen eighty two or published then, which absolutely tracks and and keeps with this at another late nineties trend of like trying to adapt like old ask books into movies for teenagers. Um, right, because she's all that was an adaptation of Pygmalion, right, yes, and Ten Things I Hate About You was a Shakespeare So yeah. It's another another sinister media trend where everything is derivative. You know. It's like, oh, the sexes ins in the late seventeen hundred is still applicable today and apparently, I mean no one proved them wrong. Um, and the book, it looks like the Ryan Phillippe character dies in a duel, like in the fight with Ronald, so I guess they're like, well, we can't have Ronald kill him because that would be out of nowhere, and they can't duel, so let's just do the yark. He also died saving saving Annette. He died a hero. Annette was trying to break up the fight and she got flung into traffic and got up very slowly, let's be honest, very very slowly, and She's like, oh, I'm in the middle of the street. Oh a car is coming what? And Sebastian pushes her out of the way to save her and in turn gets hit. So maybe that's another element to why everyone's forgiven him. Yeah, I don't know the movie jumping in front of a cab for somebody, that's very I don't people, I can think of it like that. Would I guess I would probably do it no matter what. Instinctively, sure, because I'm such a people pleaser. But I hope I don't find out if I'm being honest. But if we do die is people pass just die in the pursuit of trying not to give a perceiving Yeah, I mean the cab was going what also like screeched on his brakes, like you heard him screeched his break so by the decelerating is slowed down where I know, right, we're not doctors. Sebastian has some kind of like um autoimmune disease where he was we you know, he bruises easily, and the blood somewhere he would have been carrying bruises from the sunny side up. Then then when it cuts to him and his injuries, he has a few scratches on his forehead and he has some bloody knuckles and that's it, like, you know, unless he's got some like severe hemorrhagame or like a traumatic brain injury. Like right when we're not on the adaptation, this is not the only adaptation of this French novel that came out, Dangerous Liaisons based on the same fucking book. Yes, I can't remember it or not, but I have not seen it. But I will watch anything with Glenn Close in it, so I will wash it or wait, dangerously that's not the one where she cooks his bunny, right, That's what I was just thinking that say attraction, Yes, I got it. I also, when we were watching this movie, thought we were watching I thought cruel Intentions. I was like, oh, that's the one where Kathy Bates locks a guy in a house. That's misery. So I was in for a full well, I thought we were watching misery. We were not. We're watching something way worse pretty much, but just as violent. And and say which I mean really quick, say what you will about this movie. But Christine Branski does play a character named Bunny, so not all bad. Well, she's incredible in the movie, although problematic in many ways. She slays Arsky, I have no notes. Let's talk about that for a moment. So there is an interracial romance between Cecile and Ronald. Ronald is fooling. And also, if my daughter brought home a Juilliard composer Chells, I'd be like, honey, thank you, you did a good job. But he's not good enough. So mainstream movies generally do not like to feature interracial romances on screen. When they do, it's often a big plot point of the movie, rather than just treating that relationship like it's a normal thing that doesn't need to be heavily commented on. So movies like Get Out, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, Save the Last Dance, Jungle Fever, Holes, Our Favorite Loving Um, just to name a few, they all have major plot points that derive like like that that sounds like I never was anywhere. I mean this, I can't believe I haven't seen it, being a huge fan, I've read the book. Oh the movie is pretty good, Okay, so um, these movies all have major plot points that derive from two people of different races being together. I would say a recent recent exception to this is to all the boys I've loved before. Um, I still gotta watch it. Oh it's good. Have you seen Greatest Showman? Yes, that one has one too. Oh right, but oh god, that movie was terrible. Um I cried twice. But that's fine. Oh sure, sure I would probably cry. I would probably hate it and cry. That's a really good Basically, I just think that there should be more stories that normalize an interracial relationship, rather than saying, like, oh my fucking god, look how big of a freaking deal it is for a white person to date a non white person, but they really talk about it. So Cruel Intentions makes a fairly big deal of an interracial relationship where uh Cecile as a white woman and her cello teacher Ronald is a black man, and they are in love, and Catherine uses their interracial relationship as fuel to seek revenge on Cecil by telling Cecil's disapproving racist mother. Well, it also doesn't help that the only black man in this movie is praying on a child. Right. We we don't know how old he is, right, but he's attending pre Juilliard, which I don't know what that means or what age that would make it's possible he's also a child. I mean, I guess because you know, I agree with all all that. I will say, like when you are somebody's teacher, there's a power dynamic and I'm not a fan of that. I mean, have you y'all have taken improv classes in this town? You know how it goes men teachers, you know, So it's not cute. Sometimes totally agree. So like the fact that the only man of color is abusing the power dynamic, whether he's a child or not. Although I will say he didn't touch her, but those letters are a little creepy, the letters. He does get behind her and like, yeah, that's the first thing you see him. And where he's like he's behind her is his arms are around her under the guys with like let me teach you how to play cello, but it's really like, let me put my crotch right up against your ass. Ghost scene. Yeah, pottery getting made in this scene. No, it's jest a guy hitting on a kid. But the twist is the kids twenty seven. It's very confused. Anyone could be any age in this movie. So I think Zembe Blair gave birth to half the cast's it's hard to know what's going on. And then we see that same play out where like Mrs Caldwell is like Ronald, how could you I got you off the streets and he's like, I live at park what are you talking about? And then he's saying like, I never touched your daughter, and I thought someone of your stature would look beyond racial lines. And she's like, oh, don't give me that racist crap. I gave money to Colin Powell, which but there, I mean, the bare minimum done here is that the racist character is clearly wrong and silly, right, but the subtext of everything is still extremely bad, right, because he's still praying on the kid. And then again Catherine, who is the villain of the movie, even though Sebastian is actually the villain of the movie, but the movie wants you to love him. But Catherine is like exploiting the fact that two people love each other and because they happen to be of a different race, She's like, oh, I can like use this as fuel to get back at Cecile, which, like Cecile literally did nothing to her, right, nothing, nothing, nothing. She doesn't have enough brain power to do much. It's like she you know, basically this is an ego thing. Katherine dated a guy court and something happened. We don't really know. There's a quick little scene of her like going down on him while he's passed out, but it's basically he started seeing Cecile and she her ego said, you don't me for her? Oh buck her, which is such an issue among women, like if listen, it's never the other woman, it's the guy. It's never the other woman, it's the guy. Do not hate on the other woman, it's the guy. I'm telling you from experience. Yeah, And we talked about this a lot on the podcast because we come up upon many relationships between and it's often teen girls, but in movies it shows two women just like being in conflict with each other for reasons that aren't fully explored, just because you know, the older white men who are writing these movies are like, teen girls can't get along, so let's just make sure that's in the movie. So but that's why we all learn from it, you know. I mean I've been in many, not many. I've been in a few squabbles with girls that are currently with my ex or there I'm with their ex, and all of them. Eventually I go, yeah, that was dumb. This is silly. But movies like this reinforced the idea that, yeah, I'm saying, gotta women against each other, go against all this upbringing. I'm a fucking miracle sitting in front of you right now. Evolved is a fucking miracle. Personally, I recommend forming a league of exes. I have. I'm a part of several leagues of exes where Scott Pilgrim there to know because that movie Problemax but there. But you know, sometimes I've dated a lot of losers, and uh, sometimes losers get to have sex with a bunch of cool ladies and then the cool has become friends, and then the loser has to stop performing stand up comedy. It's great. It's it's great. Did we I'm literally on a text change of my X. It's great. It's real trauma bonding. Uh guess it's the guy. Everybody break, That's all I gotta say. Let's take a quick break and we will be back for more cruel intentions. And we're back not to keep. I know. The adaptation head in the room love talking about adapting source material, but in the original book, the way it ends is Sarah Michelle Gellar's character has to move to the countryside, and then she contracts smallpox and lives, but has scars on her face forever, so she looks like sh and her punishment, her beauty is taken away from her. And then also Cecil is disgraced and can never be married. So you know, Sebastian dies and you know, goes down the hero and then all the women he affected suffer and are disgraced for life. Very cool. I love history, but that is like what writers of then and now's idea would be. Oh, how do we punish a woman take away her beauty? Because women's beauty is all that matter? My guy, Pierre not very well, guy, No, do better. Pierre Decay's very h Let's talk about how queerness is represented in this film. Shall we have to? We have to? So there's a subplot where Blaine, which is Joshua Jackson's character. Oh yeah, Joshua Jackson's in this movie. He's fully bleached, frosty, tippy. He's wearing a sweater vest for a large portion of it. Um, I mean he's rocking the look. If I'm being on I did like the sweater vest he is hooking up with this football player dude, Greg Greg. I did I stand a Gregster? Okay? And Greg is who Sebastian thinks is bad mouthing him to a net because there's someone who's like, Sebastian is bad, don't date him in it, and Sebastian thinks it's Greg. So Sebastian uses Greg's queerness to blackmail him. He basically threatens to out Greg unless he admits to bad mouthing him. And we understand at this point in the story that Sebastian is still a bad guy and we've seen him do a bunch of really, you know, morally reprehensible things to people already. But what is really troubling to me about this scene is that all of this is happening right in front of Blaine, who is the other identifiably queer character in the movie, and he is completely complicit and everything that Sebastian is doing, he was participating in it like he was like, that's an awesome idea where it's just like in the same way that like Rehese's character is presented to us as a smart, capable woman who will go along with whatever Joshua Jackson's character is like a smart, funny, cool queer man who is down for whatever sinister gay bashing plot. Ryan Philippe's noodle Head can come up with. It's horrible. Well, I think, you know, I look back on my my high school experience and my queer friends, and I think they were just trying to get by. Yeah. I think this was a defense mechanism. It's like, yeah, that's right. Yeah, call me a homophobic splore. I'm fine with it. He's just trying to get through his damn day. He's just waiting to graduate, to get the funk out of there so we can find his tribe. But that just doesn't come off in the movie at all, Like it just comes off as like, oh, yeah, this is fine. And I feel for the Gregster. This is to this movie, like many of its era, did not acknowledge any gray area. It's like you're gay or you're straight, and like that's it. Poor. I feel for the Gregster. I really hope the Gregster comes into his own later and that his dad accepts him and then he goes on behind a powerful queer football career. But then, but then poor Greg has to do Sebastian's creepy. Errand yeah. And I would say of the hundred or more movies we've covered on the podcast so far, only a small handful of them, probably like five or less even have had an identifiably queer character. Um, a lot more have been queer coded, but that is not the same. So there's such a lack of queer visibility in mainstream Hollywood cinema and it's a huge problem. So for one of like the few examples of a queer character that we have to choose from to be able to see on screen, he's really evil and cruel and like willing to sell out his own people for reasons that are not really established in the movie. And it's so it's like even characters who are not coded queer, who are identifiably queer, they're still villainous. Not that this movie is was ever going to do any better, but that was just like a punch in the mouth as well. Um yeah, I mean he was. He was like a comic relief for you know, yeah, yeah. And another I mean, I don't even know if this trope applies as much in this movie, because literally everyone is a horrendous villain. But adding another queer villain to the roster certainly is not hell not helping, not helpful. Well, and then the other queer moment in this movie is between Selma Blair and Sarah Michelle Geller, which is I mean, you can come with this in a lot of different ways. I'm interested in, like what our listeners think of this moment because it is so like I feel like this. This is used in movies a lot just to like get butts and seeds. It's like, these two actresses are having a kiss, but it sells the idea that it's like it's just an experiment. It's just for fun, it's not serious, and that's part of what makes it appealing or what's supposed to make it appealing. Um is it's I think the most effective kiss of the movie. It was like coonic. It was I hadn't seen this movie, but I knew that right. It got parody in many of film I think, like not another team movie franchise. It one best kiss at the MTV Movie Awards that year, which at the time was fucking iconic, big and um you know the little spit trail that was famous. I did like this, I don't know. To me, it was the whole scene was you have to learn how to be sexy for men, you have to learn how to please your man. And it was a very like male gaze moment. And you know, I don't know. I grew up in a completely different place. I was in you know, suburbial Texas, not like you know, upper New York echelon. But I never made out my fucking friends. I don't know, neither did I not until college when I was like, oh, let's see what this is like. But not and I don't even mean that in a way of like you shouldn't experiment sexually with your friends. I'm just saying it was. It was such a like, well don't you want to be better for men to like you? And that made me sad. I think it would be really beautiful if they kissed, because very experimenting, you know, figuring things out. But it was very much like if you want to be sexy to other men, if you want to know how to please a man, because fuck him pleasing you, you know what I mean, He's not making out with his friends, so he knows how to please you better. So it's our job. I mean it with your friends. My neighbor and I used to practice kissing in each other to Madonna's two thousand album music. There were some good songs on that CD. Yeah, we were practice frenching. I think this scene is largely there to satisfy a male gaze. I think it could you argue that it's positive that it exists in this film for you know, young queer girls to be able to see themselves and say, oh, this is like yes, but I think the movie was thinking about this at all. I think the movie was like, wouldn't it be hot if we had two hot women kissing each other? And it was a very sensual moment. It was, I mean, it was like it was well done and it's Yeah. The reason I didn't want to come down too harder because it's like, because there are so few moments for like young queer people to attach themselves too, and so I'm sure for many people this is like a scene that's like, oh, this is like that was like some sort of awakening or something like that and good to see. But there's no, there's only cruel intentions behind what cruel intentions? Whatever do you mean? But yeah, and then this happens in movies all the time. Two examples, right, off the top of my head are Jennifer's body at the Apple Cody Joint, And there's just very like this didn't need to happen, but you added it in because you wanted to, because you're a guy, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Another moment happens where this is when Sebastian and a net are for meeting on screen and Sebastians all like, oh, I didn't like your manifesto. It's gross that you want to be a virgin, and she's like, she's saying, you know, I think that sex should be for people who are in love, and that you should the act of love shouldn't be done unless you love the person, which is feist Trevor, which was Trevor. We don't meet him, but her boyfriend respects for damn wishes. They use a homopholbic slur him. Yeah, and she's like, I'm actually he's a he's a feminist dot com right and and the Greg Stir queer icon. Yeah, so and that's all like we like, people are age are mature enough to experience those emotions, So that's why I'm not having sex yet. And the Sebastian immediately asks, are you a lesbian. And this is this I think third movie that we've covered recently where a woman either doesn't want a boyfriend or doesn't want to have sex with a man, or is simply identifies as a feminist. And then other aaracters, usually men, assume that she's a lesbian because this happens in five days of summer. How dare she not be attracted to me instantly and want to fuck me? And then and then backpad a little bit back to the virginity article, is like, this is something that happens in movies all the time too, Like implying that someone is like just waiting for a manipulative dick to come along to lose a virginity too, as opposed to like it's clearly stated in the Weird teen magazine she somehow wrote editorial for for no reason that this is what this is what she wants and this is like and and she explains it clearly, and the movie is like, yeah, but she doesn't actually mean that she's just into submission. So, and I want to talk about that scene where Catherine gives us like sort of monologue where she's calling out a double standard that we see in so soety where heard of it. She says, it's all right for guys like you and Court. She's talking to Sebastian, for guys like you in court to funk everyone. But when I do it, I get dumped for innocent little twits like Cecil. God forbid. I exude confidence and enjoy sex. Do you think that I relish the fact that I have to act like Mary Sunshine seven so I can be considered a lady. So she's basically saying, like, it's not fair that men can have sex with a bunch of people, you know, their reputation remains untarnished. They're cool, they're you know, awesome dudes. And then whenever women have sex with more than one person, they are labeled a slut. So she's calling this out. She makes a good point, but she's also insulting another woman while doing it. She's mad at people judging her, but she's judging some another woman's sexual choices. Right. This rang completely empty to me? Yes, Like I just if she would have cut the first sentence, you know, or the part the innocent twit like ceceal part, it would have been fine. But clear Really she's just dealing through her own ship. Yeah, and it's like the the whole like Gillian Flynn argument, they're Jillian Flynn, don't know, we never know, don't caret tired. But but the whole argument there is like that like women should be allowed to be villains and isn't that parody? And like I agree with that to an extent, but this is this just like falls squarely into a thing I fucking hate, which is like the adding a few like this is a moment for feminists that is totally empty because the character is complicit and all these horrible things and they're means women themselves, and it's just like it's it's it's empty, like girl power, especially because like I think this monologue could be way more meaningful and progressive if it was coming from a character who wasn't completely evil, like because this movie does what a lot of movies do, which is to take a woman who is interested in sex and who is open with her sexuality, but who's also like really mean or has just some other neg of characteristic like ascribed to her character, so it's almost villainizing her sexuality where it's like, oh, yeah, she wants to be open, she wants to be free to have sex, with a number of different people. But also she's cruel, she has cruel intentions, especially because this isn't the direct lead up to her being squarely made the sole villain of the movie by the end. Yeah, I just want to say also, like, I was prude shamed, and that's just a word I made up. It might be a term, but that's an I was prude shamed in high school. I graduated High School of virgin and uh, and I was extremely prude shamed by a guy I was dating, by all his friends, by literally everyone, and it's a whole other coin. Yeah, And I struggled with a lot of that myself because I saw, you know, friends of mine having sex and and then I almost shamed them out of insecurity and like, you know what I mean. So I hate it, but I think it's important to call out again. This is the ship that we were shown, and this movie affected me and my sexuality subconsciously, how I saw other women. And that's all I gotta say about that shot. It's all the pruds, you know. I was trying to get through the damn day. I was trying to graduate and go to school. Prudes are productive people, I mean, that's the point it's like, you want and how about no women comment on other women's sexual preferences. There's say, you know what, if you want to sex, that's awesome. If you don't, that's awesome. We can all co exist without judging each other, your body, your children exactly because and that's another thing that bothers me about the Reese character is like at the beginning, it's like if I saw this movie when I was teen, prude, same same thing, I would have been like, oh, this is the character I attached myself too. And then immediately it's like no, but she just has to funk Bryan Philippie and then her life will be great, and it's like, well he manipulated her. I mean, I would like to think when she's thirty three, you know, doing a podcast, that she would be like, fuck, I should not, you know, I don't know. Maybe I do that a little differently if I thought about it and a little more, I had intentions not so nice where they cruel? Would you say, I don't want to like throw anyone under the bus here. But also his handwriting is really bad, but I got a Jaguar out of it. I don't wish to speak ill of the dead, but like perhaps his intentions were cruel. Well, let's talk about another scene or series of scenes that probably also negatively influenced you as a teen watching this movie, which is the rape scene and the after So, so, what happens here is that Sebastian invites over Cecil under the pretense that he's going to help her with Ronald to write, which he has no intention of doing. Actually, Then he feeds her an alcoholic drink that she does not know contains alcohol. He takes pictures of her without her knowledge or permission. Then he negs her and says, too bad, you're not sexy. Then he unzips her sweatshirt and exposes her bra without her permission. Then he threatens to call her mom and blackmails when she wants to leave. When she wants to leave, explicitly says I'm uncomfortable. I want to leave, and to which he says, you can't leave. I will rat you out and ruin your life, so he traps her. Then he says, all I want to do is give you a kiss, which she the consent. Here in this in this isolated moment is still murky because she's really only agreeing to it to sort of placate him because he's been blackmailing I'll do anything, just don't call my mom, right, which is so gross as you know, she's a child. And then he's like, well, I want to kiss you down there, and then she's like, no, I don't want that. And then he's like, what promise is a promise? I mean, I can't imagine, like I put myself in that situation. And again, when I was like a fifteen year old virgin, I mean, that would have completely ruined my life. That would have completely changed the course of my life, my sexuality, everything. Absolutely, It's a very fucked up moment. Yeah. And the aftermath of this, so then he takes advantage of her naivete pressures her into oral sex, which she does not give consent to. He rapes her. So the next day she is visibly traumatized. And then I think maybe later that day or the next day or something like that, Cecile and Catherine talk about it. Cecile says, you know, something awful happened to me last night and involves your brother. He took advantage of me, and then straight up says, your brother fucking rape me. Your brother fucking raped me. And what does Catherine says? Well, first she says why didn't you do something, which, again is victim horrible this. I literally felt throw up rising my throat watching this. It made me so uncomfortable. It's just like, gut, I loved it when I asking you, Yeah, I thought this was funny. And we're so gas lady insane, bad sending the message that like women cannot talk to other women about this stuff, and it's just oh, it's bad because it confiding in her. Yeah, she was terrified, and she's like, oh, he forced in her course on you know, oh he made you give him a blow up? No, well then what and then she described what happens and then she's like, oh, he went down on you, if that's what you call it. And then she's asking did you like it? No, and she's like no, and she's like, well, I don't know. It was weird. And then Catherine's like, oh, well you had an orgasm. You're becoming a lady. You had your awakening right unless she's like, I'm so proud of you. And then Cecile, who again is a victim and is experiencing trauma, the movie has her say I am, and then she's squealing with delight. She hugs Katherine and then Katherine's like, it would be stupid of you to stop. You should keep going, have Sebastian teach you all the sex stuff, sleep with as many people as possible, and she's like, well, wouldn't that make me a slut? And Katherine's like, everybody does it, it's just that no one talks about it. So, like, God, I hate this so much. It's the worst possible way this could have unfolded. Where she's a victim of rape, she is confiding in another woman. That other woman gaslights her, victim blames her and then says, oh, what happened to you wasn't bad. It was actually good because you had an orgasm and you should keep doing it. And then the scene after that is Cetile back at Sebastian's place. She has now had sex with him, she wants to keep having She's she's verywhere he throws her off the bed because she's talking. I mean, he's really setting her up for a healthy sexual identity, and you know what I mean, Like, it's just my heart broke in this scene, just imagining her again growing up in her twenties. This is setting her up for just really shitty emotions involving her sexuality. It bummed me out so hard. I guess I'm like too old to enjoy movies anymore because all I see are the sad things. I'm so glad I didn't see this movie as a teenager, because I really think I would have been so full of this over all of this, and that says a lot again about you know, my environment, the media I was consuming, the lack of positive, helpful conversations. I was big given So again, it's a miracle. And who I am today and it's all I gotta say. Well, we've had to reach we've all had to retrain our and it comes with age. That's one, you know. I'll take that. Yeah, And I'm happy with who I am today. And fortunately this is not the sort of movie. It would be very hard to make this movie in the same way today because society, because we have a vault, we have ad enough. Certainly not, that's why we do this. Every movie from like, have you to talk about the wedding singer? No, not yet, I'll leave it for that. It used to be on favorite movie and I watched it and I was just like, damn, there's so many things in this movie that really are not okay anymore. I had to give my favorite movie Back to the Future. On a bonus episode. We did Zero Nipples because everything about it is horribly problematic. There's some assault in that movie too that everyone just hurt her. That was funny. Yeah, this movie is horrible, but great soundtrack. Also, I love the frost the tips. They're frosty and I'm here for him. But like everything else is horrible. Ryan Phillippi says emails for geeks and pedophiles, which is so great. I mean, it's like, which you know, relatable. They didn't get everything wrong. That's a l O L line. It is still email is still chaotic, evil, and god. An email causes me so much anxiety. It's not like a phone call where you can talk to somebody and then it goes away and you'll never really remember exactly what somebody says. It's literally like, I remember, I broke up with this guy and I sent him the worst, like embarrassing overshare email, and I'm like, I'm married now he's married. Now that email exists, It's like this, some day he could fucking there's a paper trail, and I hate that makes me so upset that that exists. Man, Sometimes when I'm feeling like emotionally cutting, I'm like, let me just see see an email. Is isn't at any point terrific psycho. Does anyone have any other thoughts about cruel intentions? It's just like if if you want, if you are an evolved person who wants to get drunk with their friends and really ugle a horrifying piece of media, this was a fun party watch. Other than that, I mean, if you haven't seen this movie and expect to get anything out of it in terms of your life, you won't write it's it's it's really a cursed piece of media. It's sure, it's a little over an hour and a half long, but it took me, I would say, four hours to watch because I kept either having deposit to take a string of notes, or I was just so emotionally exhausted watching it that I just had to keep taking breaks. I mean, one point we didn't even touch upon is Catherine's wardrobe, which is literally like Grandmama. It was like, so as they say on Project going Away, matronly, she dressed like a you know, sixty seven year old like rich lady in the clothing is crazy. And then a Nette is dressed in like white, sells the whole movie because she's like the virginal, she's paste. And then she dres just pretty like that's what a mid two thousands or late nineties, you know teen girl would wear. Sure, but I think the color palette was very intention it was. And then the and then Cecile is dressing in like cartoonish. She's wearing a bit. Why didn't see the diaper the fucking eyes saw dress. It's cost dot diaper with her fucking barette. You know. She look Well, that's why I carry backpack. I always say we're a backpack. It takes ten years off of you instantly. Oh I'm late for sucking stunny hallo. Tip for all the people out there, that's actually a great tip. Thank you adition. They're gonna go, wow, look at that ten best boss. Oh well, shall we determine whether or not the movie passes the back to tests? Somehow it does. There are quite a few scenes where women interact in the movie. This passes it. Yeah, yeah, a bunch of times. Unfortunately, like oh my god, by our standard it only has to be a two line exchange that passes. So there are quite a few conversations that women will be talking. They will start off the conversation about not men, and then they will start to talk about men, but the first few lines of those conversations will pass. For example, like even in the very beginning with the therapist whose name we learn based on the book Covers, Dr Regina Greenbaum, she's on the phone with terror read. She's like, hi, honey, and then Marcy's like, you kept me on hold, and the doctor is like, I'm sorry, it's something wrong, and then they start talking about that. But that count, I mean to us, which the bar is so low. We talked about that all the time. We talk about the fact that this test is flawed. That is what we named the show, so we have to I mean, I only found one conversation where they didn't talk about men, and that was when Aunt Helen and net are discussing her house while they're riding the horses. It's like, oh, what a beautiful home. Oh it's been my family for generations. Oh thank you for letting me stay here. The only conversation between not pass the back to time. But then Annette says, oh, my grandpa used to read horses, so then she mentions a man. There's a scene towards the beginning where Katherine, Cecile and Bunny called well Christine brains scar. They're talking about how Cecile is going to start school, and there's there's quite a few lines that do pass. But then but then Cecile says, what are the boys like? So then that stopped. Soasian sexually harasses her and that looks up her skirt, yeah, and nobody says anything, and then mother shames her. Yeah, She's like, together, close your legs. This isn't Jamaica. What the does that mean? First of all, I don't know, but I don't like it. Whatever that implication is. I hate it sound they're not saying, how fucking dare you my fifteen year old daughter? You're disgusting. I'm telling you. It's so much victim blaming and victim shaming. So enraged. How dare they do this to Christine? Honestly, Christine didn't God? Okay. So there's a few other scenes that, like towards the end, whenever Katherine and a Nette are in the bathroom, as Katherine snorting cocaine out of her uh necklace and that comes out of the stall. Katherine's like, I didn't know anyone else is in here. And then it's like, I'm sorry, I'm Anette heargrove, and she's like, I'm Katherine. Have we met? I don't think so. And then they talk about they both act like they don't know who each other is. Right, We're right they talk about Sebastian. But yeah, those few first lines passed the test. So this movie unfortunately does pass, even though most conversations between women end up being about men. So yes, so good job movie. Shall we rate the film on our nipple scale? Can can do it? All? Right? Zero to five nipples? Based on its portrayal and representation of women, It's zero. I'm getting this is getting zero nipples. Every Thing between the victim blaming, the assault that is not considered assault by most of the characters in the movie and the movie itself, the homophobia, the slurs that get thrown around very freely, the fact that women hate each other. There there isn't a woman that gets along with another woman in the whole movie. Yeah, the fact that Catherine is villainized at the very end, and she's the one who gets her come up, and even though Sebastian is the way more active villain and does way more horrible things throughout the film, including assault, It's just I feel really sorry for anyone who watched this as a young and impressional person, because this movie almost certainly screwed you up to some degree, and it's horrible that this movie exists in the world. Soundtrack though there so yeah, zero nipples, so I have no nipples to give to anybody. I'm also going to give it zero nipples. I want to give it negative nipples because this is a successful movie to add a net negative impact on the culture. It did harm to people. I'm giving it negative one nipples. I'm giving in an inverted, cursed nipple because it did. I mean, movies like this are so frustrating because there I mean, this is a special case, because there's truly nothing good to be taken away from it. Yeah, you're totally right. There's not one positive not loaded with like malice. Female interaction where at least there are male male relationships in this movie that are friendships, but of course it's because they do evil shipped together. They rape in packs. But like no woman talking to another woman in this movie is done without them lie to each other, manipulating. It's just women and women when you say their intentions are perhaps okay as they mean yeah, as they mean intentions, okay, okay, I'm it gets an inverted nipple for violence against Christine Baranski. It it just I don't like when my galasm is saying things about Jamaica that make no sense. This movie is like, sucks so hard that it is watching a slow taxi crash that makes no sense. Yeah, it's bad, it's bad. I don't I can't think of something I could have done to make it worse. Right, they made every bad choice, and that is an accomplishment in itself. They made every single bad choice. They didn't let Sebashian have one. I mean he even verbally assaults the old woman in the retirement home. Yeah, he fucking verbally assaulted the old lady in the retirement home. Character gets past him, he gaslights hers like yeah we played backgammon, don fuck your daughter? Like, who the fuck? But sick fuck I also the fun runner of every time Sebastian walks into a building, he abuses the working class doorman, class shaming people. Oh he's just a night but he's the guy that we're supposed to root for at the end because he gets because not even any less evil because of this. He does nothing because he had a sinister scrap book that was published. Yeah, he went into a lot like he like cut things out, amazing deca, getting crafty. Yeah, I mean, you know whatever, fuck it negative one nipple, Yeah, well what would you give it? I would give the soundtrack five nipples with the movie zero. Yes, fuck this movie. Honestly, shame on all these actors too, But again at the time, we didn't know any it was. That's really depressing. But that's true. And I to pull the ignorance card, but honestly, but it's true. It is. It just makes me. I wonder what they think now, you know, like Molly Ringwalld talked about The Breakfast Club and like, looking back on it, I would love to hear what SAA Michelle Gellar thinks of this movie now. And Ryan Philippi. This movie almost became a TV show two years ago and then it was mindfully canceled. Um, I don't know, has like done a lot of good things, it seems since she you know, she has a production company where she's championing female led projects, championing women of color, its rules, no doubt about it. So at least she was funked up with that cop at one time. But we all pretended, oh wait, what happened? What she was driving drunk, got pulled over? It was like, don't you know who I am? I mean the the PR team skirted pass out. Everybody gets one shitty pass you learn from it, you know, Okay, Hollywood forgives. I think we all know that by now. Okay, unless you're a woman older than four. But racist America's sweetheart. When she won her oscar, I sobbed, I wept with joy. Yeah, so call me Reest, love you and and l Woods. I will defend her till my night. Yeah, like Reese Weatherspoon is like white feminism, the person the better for works. Sure. Yeah, well, Jackie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and discussing this life with us. Where can people find you online? Do you have anything you'd like to plug? Well? I host a show called Natch Beaute. It's a beauty show. But what does beauty mean to you? You know, that's really what we talk about. We we really love cruelty free products, so we get into the kind of the stuff nobody tells you about the beauty industry, makeup and skincare, and we have fun on there. So maybe you two can come on and we can talk about stuff like that. It would be fun. I like cruelty free intentions wait and direct DVD sequel, So yeah, check out natural You and you can follow me on Instagram at an attribute and then my I always plug my dog's account hello, because my dog is the biggest star in my house. So you like dog accounts? Follow Chucci love it Yeah awesome. You can find us in all the usual places. We are on Twitter and Facebook at battle cast. Please like, please subscribe, please leave us some stars on iTunes is a friendly review. You can buy our merch on Tea public. You can oh sign up for our patreon ak Matreon at patreon dot com. Slash the backtel cost five dollars a month gets you to bonus episodes. Wow, and you know, moving forward in your day, try to keep your intentions good. Nice SI sign up by