New Phillies farm director Luke Murton joins the show

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bryce Harper and welcome to The Billy Show. Hi, everybody, Rubin Tomorrow, Junior, Jim Salisbury, Todd Zeleki, brought to you by the File Territory Network. It's Monday, November twenty fifth, twenty twenty four. We have Luke Merton on the show today. Luke Merton is the new Phillies Player Development Director. Some people call that guy the farm director. You can call him whatever you want, but Luke has been promoted. He was the hitting director of the last couple of years for the Phillies. The Phillies, of course, we talked about this a couple episodes ago. Made some front office changes. Sam full the current GM in a couple of years, is going to be the President of Business Operations. Preston Manningley, who was on the show at the end of October, who is the assistant GM of player Development, has been promoted to GM. So Luke Martin gets promoted, taking Preston Manningly's old role, and we talked about everything from Luke's journey to this point, his philosophy's on hit, his philosophies on pitching. He's got an extensive scouting background, so we talked a lot about that influences in his career and his life. We think you're going to enjoy this. Here he is Luke Martin. Luke, thank you for joining the Philly Show. First of all, congratulations on your promotion to player development director. If we want to kick at old school, we'll call you a farm director. I don't know if you have a preference on that, but congratulations on the new gig.

00:01:27
Speaker 2: Does matter me all. Thanks Tod. I appreciate it.

00:01:29
Speaker 3: I'm excited to be here today and I'm excited about the opportunity to be working with the Philadelphia Phillies a different capacity this year.

00:01:35
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:01:35
Speaker 1: What's how has the transition, Ben? Has it been pretty seamless? Or I mean this might sound stupid. Do you get the job and go, oh crap. I got to learn about all these pictures now because you were the hitting development director for two years. Right, You're like, oh my god, you're asking me questions about this right, this left the Dominican.

00:01:52
Speaker 4: I don't know anything about this guy.

00:01:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's definitely gonna be a process. I'm learning the pictures as we go. I mean, obviously there's pictures I've seen in the past over the years and I've seen around the weight room and stuff like that, but you know, it's it's exciting, it's you know, the hitters. Obviously I hopefully know what like the back of my hand. But right now we're a high performance camp down here. Where's ending tomorrow heading into the dead period. So I've been down here. It's been pretty seamless, honestly, Like there's been obviously different responsibilities, but still been down there working with some of the hitters and spending time with them and you know, continuing to work on their development this off season.

00:02:23
Speaker 5: Can you tell us a little bit about your journey to the Phillies, Luke, I know you, Uh, you've done some scouting you with the Red Sox and player development. You came over as a hitting uh you know, specialist director of hitting with with the Phillies.

00:02:36
Speaker 2: Uh.

00:02:37
Speaker 6: Played at Georgia Tech. Correct.

00:02:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, so played at Georgia Tech. I was a draft eligible sophomore. I got drafted three times.

00:02:45
Speaker 7: Uh.

00:02:45
Speaker 2: I kept going back to school.

00:02:46
Speaker 3: They were not offering me a lot of money, so I felt like my education was what I really needed to do.

00:02:51
Speaker 2: My last year, I got drafted by the Yankees.

00:02:53
Speaker 3: I played up the Triple a I got done playing, I wanted to coach and went to coach in college. That's where I kind of felt like my fit was. I went did that for a short time and then got offered the opportunity with the Red Sox and did that. And as I was coaching, Tim Hires, the new hitting coach now with the Atlanta Braves, have you ever thought about scouting? And I'm like, I must be really bad at my job right now if you ask him about scouting. But he was something I respected and trusted, and you know, was like, hey, I'll look into scouting.

00:03:18
Speaker 2: I really honestly didn't have much interest in doing scouting. I did it. I got hooked on the Giants. John Barr with the Giants hired me.

00:03:25
Speaker 3: I was the area scout there for three years and honestly, like it was really really fun. I really enjoyed it. I took to it. It was something that like I learned a ton. I had a great group of people around me, and I had the opportunity to learn and grow. And then Aj probably with the Padres, gave me an opportunity to come over and do scouting a lot of different capacities.

00:03:43
Speaker 2: Amateur basically amateur and pro.

00:03:45
Speaker 3: And you know, it was like I got I got to see the entire the in and outs of an organization, and I really was over there for four years and got a chance to really grow and develop and continue to improve. And then the last two years, obviously Preston brought me over here from San Diego and was able to do basically run the hitting development of the minor leagues as well as I spent probably half my time doing scouting for the draft. So I got to do a little bit of both, which was a good opportunity. And then kind of the scouting background strong, which obviously helps, you know, trending into this job.

00:04:15
Speaker 7: Yeah, I wanted to get into that a little bit, Louke, but I wanted to ask you your your relationship with Preston. Did that develop when you were in San Diego, when you guys were there together, or how that relationships start.

00:04:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, So present I met he was with the Yankees for a short time as a player in the off season, and like he was there for spring training.

00:04:33
Speaker 2: He and I just, you know, hello, hey, how are you doing?

00:04:35
Speaker 3: You know, spoke to each other, nothing real big, but yeah, our relationship really grew in San Diego. We spent a lot of time together. We worked in a lot of different things together. We're very like minded in a lot of ways, professionally and personally. So you know, it's just like one of those things where like we got along really really well, and you know, we challenge each other and we have conversations at times.

00:04:53
Speaker 2: People are like, do you guys hate each other? Like, no, we actually really like each other. But this is part of the process.

00:04:57
Speaker 3: So it's Preston's awesome and honestly, like I didn't say, it's like, I'm very thankful that he got the opportunity to doing what he's doing now. He's like, it's very well deserved. I think he's gonna do an outstanding job, and I am thankful to him to, you know, help me and get into this position and you know, take over his former position.

00:05:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I wanted to get into a little bit.

00:05:14
Speaker 7: Obviously, you had the hitting background as a coach, you went into the scouting side of this. Tell me how it was with the Phillies when you were actually doing the scouting, stef How what was it like in the room. Were you in the draft room, were you advising, were you talking through some things. How did it work with your relationship with Barbara. I guess as you moved through that process, I'm really interested in hearing about that.

00:05:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I basically had a report to Brian Barbara and Preston Mattley. I had a dual report. Barber's been outstanding. I mean he's been you know, like I think, like you look at this organization in general, is like with Dave Dombrowski, you guys like President Malley and Brian Barber's like, there's hard to find that quality of people that like I professionally respect at personally respect and I'm excited to work for. But Barber specifically has been outstanding, very supportive of everything and pressing him worked very well together. But essentially, like I would do the scouting like I've done in the past, in a sense of I focused more on hitters obviously than I did even in San Diego. Sinego was still hit or driven. I did pictures, but I did much more hitters here. But basically we do the whole process. We do the summer process, see the players at different events and kind of help identify them with along with the other scouts, and then in the spring I'd go out a little bit in spring training.

00:06:30
Speaker 2: I'd probably go out. Last year, the cycle was I'd be here during the week.

00:06:33
Speaker 3: And then i'd go out on the weekends watch players, and then once the once spring training end, and I basically went to scout for the months of April and May for those two months, and then would kind of hop back into player development for a little bit, and then in print for the draft, would go to the draft room and be a part of that process and then do the draft and hop back out to see amateur players for next year's drafts as.

00:06:54
Speaker 2: Well as we want to see the affiliate guys.

00:06:56
Speaker 7: Wow, it's pretty It's a pretty holistic look and approach us things, which just kind of cool. I mean, and you know there's a lot of siloing that it used to go on or did go on for a long long time as far as the draft is concerned. Like when you were in those draft rooms, were you did you feel comfortable like giving your opinion? I know scouts get very territorial right about certain players and things like that.

00:07:19
Speaker 4: How did that dynamic.

00:07:21
Speaker 2: Work for you?

00:07:22
Speaker 3: I would say one of my positive attributes of myself and negative attributes is I'm willing to give my opinions. I think at the end of the day, we spent a lot of time going out Scouts in general, like, we spent a lot of time going out and watching players, and our job is to give our opinions and what we like and don't like about players to help basically equip Brian Barbera and the staff to make the right pick.

00:07:42
Speaker 2: So I mean, honestly, like, having spent time in the draft.

00:07:45
Speaker 3: Room in San Diego and been around it for a while, I was very the group first of all, was Brian Barbera's culture all the other scouts was a very open, receptive group. So when I was a scout, I felt like one of the scouts. When I was working in PD, I felt like one of the PD. I was able to kind of go back and forth pretty seamlessly and felt very comfortable both avenues.

00:08:05
Speaker 4: That's awesome, that's great stuff.

00:08:06
Speaker 1: Look, when you were scouting amateur players, what player did you love to find or what players did you gravitate towards? Is the guys that can put the bat on the ball that you think are going to get stronger down the road and project is that you know, high ceiling guys, you know raw guys that you could just maybe dream on a little bit, would you love?

00:08:25
Speaker 2: I love good ones hopefully, right, you know.

00:08:27
Speaker 3: But besides that, I think at the end of the day, like on the amateur scope, a lot of times, you're looking for players with skills, right, I think like from it, the one thing is like, like Rubin mentioned, I had a holistic view of what was going on, and you realize like, hey, what can we develop and what can't we develop? And it's like one thing I have a pretty good feel for is like that everybody does, is you know what players are going to do from eighteen to twenty four.

00:08:49
Speaker 2: They're going to get bigger and stronger.

00:08:51
Speaker 3: And the idea is like, let's find guys with skills, Let's find guys that can control the zone, and then guys that are going to add physicality and weight and strength as they go. And that's ideal, Right, I don't think you always are able to do that, But essentially it's like, hey, what are guys What do we know guys are going to get better at and what's harder to improve? And it's the old question, Hey can you help guys hit the ball more? Can you help them hit it harder, or can you help them swing at the right pitches. They're all very hard to do. But also, like one thing we're able to do with the scouting and like nowadays is getting to know the players at a different level. So you start to get to know these guys, you talk to them. The scouts do a great job of getting to know the makeup of the players, who they are, and all this goes into play and the idea is like, what's what person with what skill set do we think we can help improve and develop the most and hopefully go get that type of.

00:09:34
Speaker 6: Player you mentioned skill set.

00:09:36
Speaker 5: And we talk a lot about these days about chase chasing pitches out of the zone. I'm always fascinated by pitch recognition and where it kind of fits in in how you great a hit her out and the importance of that for a young hitter and can that be can that be developed? And what's the best way to do development? Well do you employee techniques in the system to improve and lower chase rate and get a guy zero in the strike song and help them recognize pitches or is.

00:10:14
Speaker 6: That all just time in the batter's box?

00:10:17
Speaker 3: You know, as a coach, like our jobs to do everything we possibly can from a player developments perspective, to exhaust all options to improve any player in any way that we possibly can. Right, So it's like from a pitch recognition specific standpoint and chase like all of us as people and as players, we're predisposed to certain things. We're better at some things than others, were worse at some things than others, And that's the same thing for players. But like guys that chase, Like I think the goal is, you know, if we're using the scouting scale for example, say the guy chases and he's got forty, he's got a forty grade basically ability to like control his own I think, as a player development, our goals can we get that to forty five? I think, like when you put yourself in a situation where it's like we're gonna take this forty to a six, it just doesn't happen very often. We're trying to marginally improve every player. The idea is like hopefully you're taking profiles that are more fitting to what you think you can develop. But again, like a guy that chases is probably always going to chase. The question just becomes can you get them to chase less in certain quadrants or just overall, you know, change it by two percent, which ultimately can help change the profile the player.

00:11:24
Speaker 7: Hey, Luke, I think hitting for me has always been something that's very individualistic. It's a very it's almost like a thumbprint. Like everybody has their ability to do X, Y or z in some capacity, and there have been over the last I don't know, maybe ten fifteen years, like this sort of push to drive the ball out of the ballpark to create lawnch angle.

00:11:45
Speaker 4: Do you employ that sort of philosophy?

00:11:49
Speaker 7: Is it something that you are really cognizant them or do you allow that player to like maximize his own whatever abilities he has.

00:11:58
Speaker 4: How does it work?

00:11:59
Speaker 7: And what is you're sort of my thought process on you know, how to develop hitting or how you should develop an individual hit.

00:12:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:12:07
Speaker 3: So, like, first of all, within being an individualistic I think you know, it is very individualistic.

00:12:12
Speaker 2: As you know.

00:12:12
Speaker 3: It's like I we joke now you at this high performance camp, we're telling one player to do something and then we're literally telling the next player to do the exact opposite, And I'm like, if these guys heard what we were telling each player, they'd be like, well, you just told me to the opposite, because essentially, to me, like from a hitting standpoint, there's each player has their mechanics and have their movement patterns, and like the idea of just overall is like, hey, how do we get you in the best position to hit? And then how do you become the most accurate with your barrel? Like those are the first two things any young player, in my opinion, has to accomplish before they can move on to the next step. One thing I've always heard is like, hey, power comes later. Power comes at the end. And it's like I kind of agree with that. It's like, if a guy can't hit, I don't care if they can hit the ball with the fence. Yet the idea is, we want to help these guys understand how can we hit, and then we can start to add to power if necessary. And most of the time, if if the guy can hit and has strength, he's going to hit the ball over the fence. But I mean, in general, I think, you know, I would say from an industry standpoint, I probably lean a little, not a little, I probably lean less to hey, let's get the ball in the air at a certain clip at a young age. I think that's something you develop. I think it can happen naturally. I think if it doesn't, I think it's something you start to address a little bit later.

00:13:23
Speaker 2: In their development.

00:13:24
Speaker 1: Luke, you were once one of those players that the farm director was talking to with the Yankees. I know you were in that system for five years and I'm wondering your personal experience as a minor leaguer. How does that shape how you talk to players? How does that shape how you view players evaluate players? You know, because there's a lot of doubt and frustration and you know when guys struggle, et cetera. I mean, does how does that shape how you do your job on a daily basis?

00:13:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, A couple of things like I actually just gave I have the opportunity on behalf of the George Scout Association to give my college coach a Lifetime Achievement Award, And I was telling stories about, you know, my relationship with him and how it was the player and you know, you start to go through that process and you know this, but when I go in through that process before giving a speech, you realize all the ways people have impacted you and help shape to who you are.

00:14:16
Speaker 2: You know, who you are as a person, who you are as a coach and all that.

00:14:19
Speaker 3: Like Mark Newon was our farm director when I was in New York, and I remember one time I had I had, I had had a kid at a time I was married, and I was like, hey, what am I doing? Like what what is this really going to look like? And I remember saying like, hey, you know, Mark, I'd like to talk to you. At some point he said, yeah, come into my office. At this time, I was like, Okay, it sounds good. And I walk in there and it was like it was he just bam bam, bam bam, told me what I needed to do, what I didn't do well, and how I can get to where I want to get. And in that moment, right there he he was. It was educational, but it was also very to the point and very respectful. And it's something that like I've taken the players dealing with players now and this role in as the director of PROJ One thing is like at the end of the day, like there's there's two sides of this.

00:15:01
Speaker 2: There's the professional side and there's the personal side.

00:15:04
Speaker 3: It's like I want every player to know that I care about them as a person, like and I think like the best way you can help impact players is to love them and know that, hey, this guy actually cares about who I am. But there's also the fine line where it's like, hey, I care about you as a person, but professionally, if we don't do this, this, and this, what you want to.

00:15:21
Speaker 2: Happen is not gonna happen. And I think like the combination of being direct and just caring about them, it's you're kind of able to touch both sides of the spectrum and hopefully impact them and help them to get not only grow as players, which ultimately what we want to do, but also grows people.

00:15:36
Speaker 5: You're kind of as farm director and you're kind of on this topic here leading this way. There's gonna be days when you make a make a kid jump for joy by saying, hey, you're getting promoted to double A. And there's gonna be days when you're gonna have to tell a kid that your dream is not gonna come true, it's time to go home.

00:15:54
Speaker 6: You have to release a player.

00:15:55
Speaker 5: Have you thought about what those conversations are gonna be, like the good ones and the gut wrenching ones.

00:16:01
Speaker 3: So I think like, ultimately, even when it comes to scouting right and coaching the last couple of years, it's like the goal is how can you make the player better and what's best for the player. And I do think in general it's like if we stay player focused, you're also doing what's best for the organization. I mean that like this, and I mean this respectfully. If you're releasing a player, the best thing for them to probably do is to go home, Like minor league Baseball's Major League Baseball's tough, Minor league baseball is tough, and like, is it going to be a tough conversation, Yes, but looking at twenty five year old who you're forecasting of not impacting the major leagues at all, and them going to you know, you know again, they may take an opportunity to go somewhere else or to move on with their life and get a different job. Like ultimately, I think it's something they don't like in the moment, but you're ultimately, in my opinion, doing what's best for the player.

00:16:51
Speaker 2: So, yes, are some conversations more fun than others.

00:16:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, But I think if you ultimately stay on, hey, this is what I think is best for the player, it's gonna make it a little bit easier.

00:17:00
Speaker 7: Hey, look, I was just wondering, alsough, who are some of the people that you feel have really impacted I don't Just staying sort of on the same theme, are there any individuals either from the Yankees or Boston or or you know, wherever that that you can point to and say, you know what this this person, Maybe maybe it's news, maybe whoever. I mean, I just wondering if there's anybody specifically that you you know, when you think about how you go about your job, who are the people that sort of impact have impacted you as their mentors?

00:17:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like big picture wise, like the two people have impacted me the most in my life, or my dad or my brother.

00:17:36
Speaker 2: Okay, like my parents. I grew up as a strong I grew up in a Christian home.

00:17:40
Speaker 3: I accepted Christ at a very young age, and I've you know, for the most part, made a lot of mistakes, but have lived for Him And that's that's the basis of who I am as.

00:17:46
Speaker 2: A person at the end of the day.

00:17:49
Speaker 3: And that that though, so between my brother, my dad's example, my older brother Matt, who played in the Big leagues, played in Japan, do all that kind of stuff. He's I hope he doesn't ever watch this cause I never tell him I like him, but like he's had a huge on me. And like from a professional standpoint, I mean Mark Newman I mentioned I've had, you know, Justin Turner was one of my hitting coaches for a couple of years in the minor leagues.

00:18:11
Speaker 6: Was great.

00:18:11
Speaker 2: Tommy Slater I loved in the minor leagues. We actually just hired them over.

00:18:16
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness. I worked with slave with the with the New York Mets, so that's awesome.

00:18:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm excited about having him.

00:18:22
Speaker 3: And then you know, again, like I go to post playing, you have John Barr who hired me and create a longtime scout, former scouting director uh A J. Preler, Logan White with San Diego, Chuck Lamar with San Diego. I've been like you look at you know where you're at, and like to get to where you're at.

00:18:40
Speaker 2: You've been.

00:18:41
Speaker 3: I've been blessed to be around a lot of smart people who also cared about developing me. I know, and I just had to learn when to shut up and listen versus talk. But they I've had a lot of people that have helped really impact my life and my career as a professional.

00:18:54
Speaker 4: There's some awesome names.

00:18:55
Speaker 7: Man, I've been to know a lot of those folks, and that's that's really cool.

00:18:58
Speaker 4: It's a great group.

00:18:59
Speaker 5: So Chuck Lamar worked in Philadelphia in the same role you're in now, and somebody once told me about Chuck that he was great at knowing when a guy was ready to go to the next level, knowing when to move a guy as as a director of player development. Now, how big of a challenge is that for you? And what markers you know? Will you be looking for when it's time to send a hit or even a pitcher.

00:19:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think in general, like you look at players like they go to the big leagues, right, I think the first thing they have to do is learn how to survive and then you learn how to thrive.

00:19:34
Speaker 2: Right, That's typically how it goes.

00:19:35
Speaker 3: Very few guys go to the big leagues and thrive right away, and those guys are the special one. So you look at each level, like I take Aiden Miller for example, last year he has he dominates the Florida State League. He goes up to Jersey, he struggles a little bit early, and it's like then all of a sudden, it clicks, he figures.

00:19:50
Speaker 2: It out, and he's off for the races. I think just ultimately you can see performance.

00:19:54
Speaker 3: Obviously he's a big dictator on whether they should be promoted or not. But then also like within that performance, there's more than us the numbers. How's the player preparing, how's his makeup? You know, the hitting coach, the pitching coach, Hey, what's going on between his starts? You get a lot more information. But I think like performance honestly is one of the biggest indicators. And then you know, you look at like what's the goal? What are they trying to accomplish?

00:20:16
Speaker 6: Is it?

00:20:16
Speaker 3: Are we working on a new pitch, are we working on a different move in the box?

00:20:20
Speaker 2: You know?

00:20:20
Speaker 3: And once those things start to be accomplished with the success, that to me is probably a better idea of when it's time for them to move.

00:20:27
Speaker 7: So I've already always sort of believed in sort of challenging certain guys and then you know, slowing certain other guys down. Do you feel like they can that's an individual thing as.

00:20:39
Speaker 4: Far as their overall makeup.

00:20:40
Speaker 7: Are you willing to there's certain guys willing to really challenge them even though you know they may be failing that they may be able to handle that mentally, and do you slow those other guys down that may may need to have success to be able to continue to have success later on and build their confidence.

00:20:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're Like you said, there's a balance to that knowing the kid, knowing where they're at.

00:21:02
Speaker 2: I think also the organization.

00:21:03
Speaker 3: I think right now, if you look at our major league roster, we're in a very very good position. We have a lot of we have Our twenty six man roster is one of the best in baseball, and we don't We're not in a rush for these guys to get there. But at the same point is if these guys are ready to go, we can push them. So it's finding that that little bit of tension right where it's like they don't really have to go, but they can go and find the right balance of when it's time to go. But I think in general, like would not be Aiden Miller went from low AY to Double A last year, Justin Crawford was a little bit slower, and it's like to me though both players ended in Double A and from a development standpoint, they both were at the levels they need to be out at the time, and just because one move fast and the other doesn't mean it's gonna better player.

00:21:47
Speaker 2: It's just different situations.

00:21:49
Speaker 1: Did you scout Aiden before the Phillies drafted him.

00:21:52
Speaker 2: Yep, and I saw them in the summer.

00:21:54
Speaker 1: And tell me what you loved about him and what did you think when you first saw them.

00:21:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean one of the most talented kids there was. I mean, I think at the end of the day, like and he showed that this year. He was a very hit, very good at bat quality. He saw the baseball very well, and he had power and then he had the ability to stay on the dirt. And like, I think even from my perspective, he's performed a better at shorts up and I would have even anticipated the development he had defensively this year.

00:22:18
Speaker 2: Adam Everett and what he did with him this year was outstanding.

00:22:21
Speaker 3: I think he's going to continue to grow and like ultimately has the has the tools and capacity to stay at shorts up.

00:22:29
Speaker 2: That's good stuff.

00:22:29
Speaker 4: What about Crawford, what was your feeling did you scout him as well?

00:22:32
Speaker 6: Yeah?

00:22:33
Speaker 3: No, so I've saw I saw all these guys, and that's one thing that's been cool. About the last couple of years is you know, they'll they'll talk about high school. I'm like, oh, yeah, when you were at this event, and they're like, oh yeah, you were actually there, so we can kind of go back and talk through that. But yeah, Crawford was obviously ultra talented kid. One of his makeup to me is like, you can make the arguments. One of the best in the organization. I mean, he's a tough kid that is a competitive guy. That's like, he's the guy you want up to bat when the game's on the line.

00:22:58
Speaker 2: You trust him.

00:22:59
Speaker 3: I mean he's out there. I know right now in USA they're playing. They played Japan last night and I didn't see it.

00:23:04
Speaker 2: I know he got a hit. I didn't see his final line.

00:23:05
Speaker 3: But he's playing in front of I think fifty five thousand people and you're like, yeah, he's gonna be okay. He loves the lights. He does a great job. But yeah, he's an ultra talented player. Always been productive guy. It's like, hey, you look up and he got two hits. You feel like every single night.

00:23:19
Speaker 5: What kind of challenge is it for you as a hitting guy to now have to As Todd indicated, earlier to have to oversee all of player development, which includes pitching, and who will you lean on in that regard to you know, make your decisions and you know, guide players.

00:23:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I mean, like from a Travis Herbert is our pitching coordinator right now, He's done outstanding job.

00:23:43
Speaker 6: I've you know, not.

00:23:44
Speaker 2: Worked directly with him, but I've seen him work. He's done awesome.

00:23:47
Speaker 3: But then they like I think, to me, it comes down to it's more, you know, from a development standpoint, I'll be less hands on of how to develop them, and it becomes more just a straight evaluation and where they're at. And that's the one thing with the scouting background, been very fortunate to see a lot of the major league pitchers over the years, being the trade deadline in San Diego for four years, and then those four years San Diego made quite a few trades, if you remember, so being a part of that, I learned, was able to learn a ton about pitching. And even the last couple of years, I've been obviously less yeared towards pitching with everything else going on, but I've seen our pitchers. I've seen you know, some of them throw. To this point, scouted them and scouted other pitchers.

00:24:24
Speaker 2: I mean, I you know, saw Jackson Joe pitch this year.

00:24:26
Speaker 3: I saw the two first you know, college first rounders this year pitching wise, I got to see Painter in the Fall League.

00:24:32
Speaker 2: So I have not completely lost touch of the pitching.

00:24:37
Speaker 6: Who's like, you know, as you did some Scott.

00:24:39
Speaker 5: I once I don't even know if you can answer this question, but I once Mike Carbuckle was the former scouting director with the Phillies and assistant GM a long time Atlanta Braves scout, and I once asked him, like, hey, Mike, who was the most talented player you ever scouted as an amateur? And he mentioned Will Clark. Is there anybody in your time is in scouting that just mesmerized you, you know as an anerter player.

00:25:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this guy really went off this year.

00:25:10
Speaker 3: But Bobby Wit, I mean, like Bobby what was obviously really really talented.

00:25:14
Speaker 2: We talked about two way.

00:25:15
Speaker 3: I mean I remember watching him at USA and he went like he got on the mountains like ninety five ninety six, spun a breaking ball and threw strike. You're like, like you could write this guy up easy as a first round follow as a pitcher, and I think, like these ultra talented guys, you see me. Jack Caglione, you know, goes to the top ten mix this year. I remember seeing him. He's got huge raw power. I remember watching this left handed pitcher hit VP at East Coast Pro and I'm like, this guy hitting the ball along ways, I'm like, this guy's kind of interesting as a hitter.

00:25:42
Speaker 2: Who is this?

00:25:43
Speaker 3: You know, I don't have no idea who these guys are at the time. And then it's pouring down rain. I usually sit behind home play at these events, but it was because it was porn. I was kind of up on the side, and then some left he comes in throwing ninety seven miles an hour.

00:25:56
Speaker 2: I'm like, who's this and it was Jack Caglione. So yeah.

00:25:59
Speaker 3: Over the years, you get to see guys and you know, a lot of the big leaguers will tell stories of what they did on both sides as young players, and honestly, like the ultra talented ones, it's true. You know, they have that type of athletic ability, that type of physical ability, and a lot of times they can do it on both sides.

00:26:16
Speaker 4: I had a chance to see gag Leon, the Jack Tahani.

00:26:19
Speaker 7: I guess they call him, but I had a chance to see him this fall because I was doing the MLB Network broadcast, and not only does he have some some serious pop, but he actually looks like a pretty talented hitter I mean used the other field. Well, I mean I was really surprised that for a guy who's really that young. I mean he's literally right out of the draft, to be able to handle the bat the way he did and utilize the entire field pretty cool.

00:26:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no question he's a very talented individual. And I'm sure the Royals are happy they have them.

00:26:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are. Yeah.

00:26:51
Speaker 1: Look, you mentioned a lot of the influences you've had in your career, and I'm wondering he had about like a dozen at bats or so in spring training with the Yankees I think it was in twenty thirty. Team do you run across? I mean, were you there long enough to have a conversation with with Derek Jeter or any of the big leaguers that were there in camp and anything that they said maybe impact you?

00:27:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was plain. I got to go to spring training.

00:27:16
Speaker 3: I got invited to spring training after I had a good year in double I went from you know, a non prospect to a suspect.

00:27:21
Speaker 2: You know, for just a short time.

00:27:23
Speaker 3: But I got to go and you know again, you're sharing a locker room with a Rod and Jeter and Robinson Cano when he was in his hey day mark to share each row, I mean, Curtis Grant and you get just the name, like every position was just like oh you know WHOA So yeah. I got to be there for two weeks. I remember I tell a story about getting what I got sent back to my league camp. I was in there with cash Man, Joe Girard and all these guys. They're like, hey, do you have any questions. I'm like, yeah, can we do this tomorrow? But like this is I'm like, yeah, well tomorrow is meal money. So if I can get meal money before I leave, that'd be awesome. I didn't get it, but you know what, it was a great experience to be there. I got a hits too. I remember, I was I had this is bad. I remember this, but I was when I was in camp. I got tenant bats. I got three hits. I went back to myer league camp and then they sent me back up for a day. I'm like I don't want to hit. They're like, wow, I'm like, I'm a three hundred here in the big leagues.

00:28:14
Speaker 2: I don't need to hit. And then I faced, uh the oh he pitched here. I can't think of his name, the lefty with a low slot that threw really hard pitch for the Rangers and pitch here Deacman. Yeah, that's right, that's right. Yep. So Decman was thrown.

00:28:28
Speaker 3: I hit a lone drive up in the middle of like, all right, I can have another bat now, my my bat.

00:28:32
Speaker 2: My batting average stay over three hundred. So it was a fun experience.

00:28:35
Speaker 7: You know.

00:28:35
Speaker 3: It was like one of those things where obviously the goal was always to play in the big leagues. You know, I felt like I had the the ability to do it.

00:28:43
Speaker 2: That was the goal.

00:28:45
Speaker 3: Obviously, not reaching the goal was not something that like it is disappointing at the end of the day, but you know, having that big league experience, excuse me, big spring training, big league experience bear on those guys, was was cool to draw back.

00:28:55
Speaker 4: Where was that? Where was that that decision for you?

00:28:58
Speaker 7: And when you said, okay this I'm not going to be a major league baseball player.

00:29:02
Speaker 4: I'm going to move on, And how difficult was that for you to make that to make that call?

00:29:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.

00:29:08
Speaker 3: It was hard for me because again, like I'm a was a very probably still am a very competitive person.

00:29:14
Speaker 2: It's like, hey, this is what I want to do it. I got to figure out how to do it.

00:29:17
Speaker 3: But I got put in a situation where I had a good year in double A and triple I went and I wasn't really playing as much, and I got married a little bit younger, I had a kid, and I felt like, hey, what am I doing for them? Like, you know, mynor leagues has changed a lot since then as far as how much money guys are making. So I felt like it was time for me to go do something else. And you know, it ended up being at the end of the day, like my goal was to support my family and love my wife and love my kids, and I felt like at that time was what I needed to do.

00:29:44
Speaker 2: So I have zero regrets for me.

00:29:46
Speaker 1: So when you your last year in pro ball was twenty fourteen, you played some indie ball when you decided to hang up the cleats and stuff like that, could you have ever met like what was your goal at that point? Was it just I want to stay in Bay And you mentioned coaching and stuff like that in the college coaching, but is this kind of beyond your wildest expectations to be farm director for the Phillies or a couple of years in We're like, maybe I can kind of get get on get on that trajectory.

00:30:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:30:12
Speaker 3: I think like when I got done playing, I was like, I want to go be a college coach.

00:30:16
Speaker 2: I felt like that would have been a good fit for me.

00:30:18
Speaker 3: It's like that's where my head was at, and obviously God had different plans. But like as far as like what do you aspire to be? I mean, I've told people this before, is like I want to be a high achiever at whatever I'm doing, And like what does that lead to? I don't want to say I don't know and I don't care, But like I don't know and I don't care.

00:30:34
Speaker 2: I just want to be really good what I'm doing.

00:30:35
Speaker 3: And I think, like, if you truly like one thing, I never did a great job as a player until I got older.

00:30:40
Speaker 2: I think because my brother played in the big League. I saw what he did.

00:30:42
Speaker 3: He was a first round pick, and it was like, yeah, if my brother did this, I can do all this, so it's like I want to go there. And then I think what I've learned on this side of it is I just want to be really good at where I'm at. And once as a player, I realized, hey, be comfortable where you're not comfortable, to be content where you're at but still work for more is helped me a lot. And I think, like I've been able to take those learning experience as a player and like just hey, I'm gonna go be really good at my job when I was an area scout for the Giants. I want to be as good as I possibly could be. Hey, how can I grow? How can I learn? And how can I get better? I mean, like even now, it's like our organization the last couple of years, we've you know, improved in hitting in the last couple of years, and it's like, yeah, great, Like now what now, how are we going to get better? I think if we focus on that, then all the jobs and aspirations and stuff will kind of take care of himself. And I'm like, I say that I'm very thankful and blessed to be where I'm at, but like it's just another day and like, hey, how am I gonna get better at doing this job today and what can I do to impact the Phillies.

00:31:39
Speaker 6: It's funny you mentioned Jake Diekman. He was one of my favorite.

00:31:43
Speaker 5: Stories in the last decade or so because he was a Phillies prospect or pretty much a Phillies non prospect, and he was pitching in South atlantically in Jersey, and he was way up here and he was struggling badly after a few years, and he thought he was going to get released, and you know, they came to him and said, we're gonna try someone and try dropping your way way down and they kind of put him on the I l with a phantom something.

00:32:14
Speaker 4: We would never do that, Jim, we would never.

00:32:16
Speaker 5: Do that, and they and they worked on it in the bullpen, and that move changed his life, made him a many year Big league you're a multi millionaire. I mean, it's amazing the impact that player development can have on a kid's life and a kid's career when you just think out of the box and you're a little bit creative.

00:32:40
Speaker 6: Do you have any of maybe those type of stories.

00:32:42
Speaker 5: And you know, have seen types of things.

00:32:45
Speaker 6: Like that over the years.

00:32:46
Speaker 3: No, that's a good point. Remember the similar story. Aaron Luke was kind of the same thing. If you look at Aaron Luke younger in his career, he threw a higher slot. I remember facing on that like, oh we're facing Luke. This is great, and then he was thrown from a lower slot and through horrors like this is not I'm not having. But I think overall, like in player development, I think the idea is like you have to be willing to like challenge yourself in certain spaces and like you the one thing to me is like if we focus on the process, then the results will take care of themselves. And it's like if we feel like it's just a picture to your to your points, like he's thrown from here, it doesn't work.

00:33:20
Speaker 2: You drop them out.

00:33:21
Speaker 3: Let's find out. I think so many times people are afraid to make mistakes that they're like sometimes don't put themselves in position to have success. And I think ultimately having those conversations with the players and just hey, man, here's what we're doing and here's why we're doing it. Like, if you can give players like a reason to why you're doing something, ninety nine percent of times are open to do it. So I'm completely open to doing that stuff, you think about guys like again, I don't know this story as well, but it's like Mario and Navera was always really good and then he threw the cutter and he was really really good.

00:33:51
Speaker 7: Right.

00:33:52
Speaker 3: So it's a matter of like, hey, are we willing to do different things to push ourselves to be as good as we possibly can be? And I think as a coaching as coaches and the player development group, I think the idea is like does it make the player better? And how can we make the player better? And I would use this as an example for like creativity. I remember Chuck Lamar said this to me a couple of years ago. He said, Hey, everybody wants to think outside the box. Well, stuff's inside the box for a reason because it stood the test of time, right, And it's like, yeah, that makes sense. But even within that eighty five ninety percent of what you're doing is inside the box. And that ten to fifteen percent, to your point, is that creative side. So let's see what we can do with something else.

00:34:31
Speaker 4: So let me let me. I would be remiss.

00:34:33
Speaker 7: I would be mad at myself if I didn't asked this question, because there's a you know, over the last several years has also been this push to create velocity and create spin when you're on the mound, and it has led, in my opinion, to a whole lot of host of things, one of them being injury for one. But I was just kind of curious as you're, you know, to overall philosophy on that. I know, guys are bigger and stronger, and they create more arm speed and that kind of stuff. Uh, where are you at as far as pitching.

00:35:02
Speaker 8: As opposed to throwing and and how you know how to how to continue to develop pitchers what I feel is the right way and to develop starters which has not been happening.

00:35:14
Speaker 4: You're not you know in this day and age. You know, four or five innings is something that's uh, you know that that's.

00:35:19
Speaker 6: Extolled right now.

00:35:21
Speaker 7: And uh and you know I'm a sort of old school when it comes to that kind of stuff.

00:35:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, for sure.

00:35:25
Speaker 3: I mean you look at even the big leagues, like if a guy throws five innings, it's a it's a big deal. Now as a starter, I mean, I think our team or current team with Phildelphi is a little bit different with you know, Nolan Wheeler and these guys, it's it's a little weren't a little different world, which again I think that's part of why we have so much success at the big league level, because we have those horse type arms that can throw. But ultimately, I think in general that is like each player has capacity to do certain things. I think like you can't make a reliever or a starter. It's a little easier to make a starter a reliever. But let's take Andrew Paynter for example. Obviously he's come back from injury. In the Fall League, he was outstanding. The velocity was there, the command was there, he separated two breaking balls, he was competitive, all those things right, and he's you know, not only a great talent, he's a great kid. Being around him a little bit last couple of years. But I think starting pitching wise, like if we're chasing velocity, stuff matters, right. You look at to me, like I look at pitching in four ways. You have velocity, which we talk a lot about, and just in general in the industry, you have deception, okay, you have their operation, their ability to repeat over and overall, and then you have command. Right, It's like those four things are like that's what helps create success from a pitcher, and I think in general as an industry that we can do a and I think they do a good job here of balancing stuff and command.

00:36:44
Speaker 2: Right.

00:36:45
Speaker 3: It's like, if your command's not good enough, the stuff's got increase. If your stuff's not good enough, the command's got increased. And I think that's where like from a like a scouting lens, and you know, obviously you've had a lot of experience with that. It's like you look at what does this player have to do to be a big leader. It's like you watch a guy in my leagues. He's strowing ninety ninety three. The slider's just okay. He throws pretty good strikes. It's like he probably needs maybe a little bit more intent to get to where he needs to get Versus you got a guy like that, you know, can back off the stuff a little bit to pitch a little bit more. I think there's there's obviously time and place for that. I think in general, though, like as I'll speak to the industry out the Phillies, necessarily, I think the industry is chasing stuff more than I probably would. I think there's a fine balance between the two.

00:37:32
Speaker 2: And I think we've.

00:37:33
Speaker 3: Tiered a little bit more to the stuff. But saying that, I still do think stuff obviously is really important. If you watch the games at seven o'clock, these guys have stuff. But what's the balance. I think as an industry it could be a little bit more towards the pitching aspect versus the throwing aspect.

00:37:50
Speaker 1: Look, we had pressedon on late October, and I asked him at the at the end of our conversation, I said, is there an under the radar guy? You know, speak from the hitting side, since most familiar with him, is there an under the radar guy that you watch play and go? I cannot believe more people are not talking about this dude, like this is this is.

00:38:08
Speaker 2: Wild to me?

00:38:08
Speaker 1: Like who would that be for you? If if you feel like naming somebody?

00:38:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I mean I think like the one guy this year that I went and watched play and then I looked at his numbers and I got done, and I'm like, and I just saw playing the Fall League Auto Kemp. Okay, he's a little bit of a it was an undrafted player, could play third base, some second base, and first base.

00:38:28
Speaker 2: I think he's gonna play.

00:38:29
Speaker 3: He played a little bit of outfield in the Fall League, may play a little bit of outfield this year.

00:38:32
Speaker 2: He's a guy to me, It's like he's not one of the famous guys, but he just keeps getting better and better and better. It's like he's the guy that makes you sometimes feel like a good coach. Could you tell him something? He kind of does it. You're like, oh wow.

00:38:43
Speaker 3: But it's really comes down to his ability and his aptitude to make adjustments. He's done a tremendous job. I mean, he's a talent. Honestly, he's a talented kid too. It's not like he's just one of these players that completely self made. I mean, he's hitting balls in the Fall League a long long ways. But he'd be the guy. To me, he's like a little bit under the radar.

00:39:01
Speaker 2: I think by the end of this year he won't be under the radars.

00:39:04
Speaker 1: Interesting, that's awesome. And then I have one last one.

00:39:08
Speaker 6: You said, you have how many kids do you have?

00:39:10
Speaker 2: I to two little girls.

00:39:12
Speaker 6: Two little girls.

00:39:12
Speaker 1: Do they play softball or baseball?

00:39:14
Speaker 2: Or so?

00:39:15
Speaker 3: They both love soccer? Okay, my oldest one plays, she does play softball. I think my youngest one might play softball, but she wants to play street hockey right now. So okay, I mean, all I know is my eight year old I had. I had skates on and a hockey stick out there with the other day, just trying not to fall over.

00:39:31
Speaker 2: We had fun.

00:39:32
Speaker 1: That's funny because I was gonna ask if they were into softball, like what hitting tips do you give a kid that age, because a lot of kids in Philly right now they're going to be cramped up inside all winter and they're gonna want to maybe hit the ball around. But do you have any tips for him?

00:39:44
Speaker 3: I would say, get to a good position to hit and be accurate with your barrel. Those That's what I would tell them. I said, like, how easy can you we call it simplistically, your load and you're unload.

00:39:55
Speaker 2: How easy can you get through your load? And then how explosive can you be through your unload and stay on the ball. That's what I was telling him to do. What's he talking about? He just hard and have fun. How about that?

00:40:05
Speaker 5: When you go to a little league game in the Philadelphia area, every dad says, get your elbow up because that's how Mike Schmidt did it.

00:40:18
Speaker 3: I struggle with the coaches I'm not great with the coaches, and I was.

00:40:22
Speaker 2: My daughter played and she never played travel.

00:40:25
Speaker 3: She played in a travel tournament the other day because honestly, she played with her cousin, my sister's daughter.

00:40:30
Speaker 2: She's like, hey, you have her, come play. They need an extra player. And hearing the things that were said, I was just it was, it was. It was tough.

00:40:37
Speaker 4: It's hard about by your tongue. It's hard to bite. Your tongue drives crazy.

00:40:41
Speaker 6: To Tom's going through it now drives some nuts.

00:40:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:40:44
Speaker 1: I have an eight year old boy and then my girls middle child's five. She's getting into t ball, and you know, you hear a lot of hear a lot of crazy stuff. Kevin long I talked to him like last summer, the summer before. He said when he got the hitting coach shop, his first hitting coach shop, his dad said, man, oh man, you're gonna be in for it, because everybody thinks they know just enough about hitting to tell you that you're doing the job.

00:41:05
Speaker 3: Ra The one I always love is when the parents say you gotta want it more.

00:41:10
Speaker 2: I'm like, he wants to hit. It is clearly not that easy.

00:41:13
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, people do forget it. It's the toughest thing to do in sports. I'm convinced of that.

00:41:19
Speaker 2: Still, there's no doubt. I tell you guys all the time.

00:41:24
Speaker 5: The funny thing about that comment, it's the hardest thing to do in sport, Like somebody made that up one hundred years ago before they were throwing ninety eight with big spin, you know, carry through the zone and every pitch you could even dream of.

00:41:39
Speaker 2: There's no doubt it's not getting any easier. I can tell you that.

00:41:41
Speaker 6: Oh that's great.

00:41:42
Speaker 3: Well, that's why it's probably good I got out of the director of hitting job and not smart.

00:41:47
Speaker 4: That's Coboard thinking right there, maybe we go, there we go.

00:41:50
Speaker 1: Well, look, that was a that was a lot of fun.

00:41:52
Speaker 7: Man.

00:41:52
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on. Best of luck to enjoy your new gig, and uh well all three of us. I'm sure we'll see in clear Water.

00:42:00
Speaker 2: In just a few weeks.

00:42:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks a lot. I appreciate it.

00:42:02
Speaker 4: Congratulations, good luck to you, Luke Man. I wish you the best, I really do.

00:42:06
Speaker 6: Thank you.

00:42:07
Speaker 1: Thank you again to Luke for the time. Philly Show. We'll be back later this week. Take care of everybody. The Philly Show is brought to you by the Foul Territory Network. Subscribe to The Philly Show on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. If you like us, give us a review, Follow us on Instagram, TikTok x, Facebook, and threads. Find Rubens analysis before, during, and after Phillies games on NBC Sports Philadelphia, on the Sports Radio ninety four, WIP Morning Show, and MLB Network. Find Jim at all phl y dot com. Find me at MLB dot com, the Phillies Beat newsletter, and MLB Network