AvTalk Episode 237: The civil aviation situation in Israel

AVT 237 Transcript
EPISODE 237
[EPISODE]
[0:00:07] IP: Hello and welcome to episode 237 of AvTalk. I am Ian Petchenik, here, as always
with –
[0:00:16] JR: Jason Rabinowitz. How's it going, Ian?
[0:00:19] IP: It's going well, Jason. How are you, sir?
[0:00:21] JR: I'm good. Thanks. You didn't answer for yourself though. How are you?
[0:00:24] IP: I didn't? I thought I did. I said it's going well.
[0:00:27] JR: Oh, okay. Maybe you dropped out for a second, but that's good to hear.
[0:00:30] IP: Yes.
[0:00:31] JR: That's good to hear. I'm happy.
[0:00:32] IP: I'm feeling better coming back strong and ready to do this week's show. We've got
a lot of aviation news that's happened over the past week, but really one dominating story that is
dominating headlines outside –
[0:00:46] JR: All of the stories.
[0:00:48] IP: Yeah, all of the stories outside of aviation. But we're going to focus on the aviation
tie-in obviously, for this week's episode, so I guess, let's just dive in. Over the weekend, Hamas
launched a surprise attack on Israel, launching dozens, if not hundreds of rockets into Israel
from Gaza. As the fallout has continued, we've been following very closely its impact on aviation
and specifically, commercial aviation.
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At this point in the story, most airlines have begun to cancel their operations into Tel Aviv. We're
recording on Wednesday the 11th of October. A few airlines initially held back their service and
then resumed operating, then there were airlines that said, “We're canceling through a certain
date.” Now there are airlines that are saying, “We're just canceling until further notice.” We've
got a long list that includes all the major US airlines, most European airlines, certain other
airlines have withdrawn their service and then some are still operating as of today, and all of the
Israeli airlines are still operating, including Arkia and El Al. It's a very fluid situation.
Just today, British Airways was still operating BA 165, was an A350-1000 operating to Tel Aviv
made it all the way to the approach when there were additional missiles launched in the vicinity
of Tel Aviv's Hungarian airport, and the aircraft was turned back all the way to London. A very,
very fluid situation, as far as which airlines are operating. I'm sure that the list that we've just
hinted at in talking about it just now, I'm sure that will be out of date by the time the podcast
comes out on Friday. But I think the point stands that it's a very fluid situation.
[0:02:43] JR: Yes. Of course, this did not happen with any prior notice, so it was very interesting
to watch all of the airlines react to it in various ways. United had a flight enroute, 777-300ER
enroute from San Francisco that turned around all the way over Greenland and that being a 14-
hour flight to nowhere, probably extremely justified from that. That was really the first sign that
the dominoes were about to come down. That was the first real airline reaction at least that I
saw. Then everything from an airline point of view, at least on October 7th, started deteriorating
in real-time, but actually stabilized for a while.
There was a while on October 7th, where Emirates and flydubai actually both had flights in the
air and they doped out and returned back to Dubai. Ironically, those are two of the last non-
Israeli airlines still operating to Israel. That's a sentence you probably wouldn't have said two
years ago. It's a very strange turn of events. Turkish airlines as well had some interesting
operations in that they had one flight returning from diverting away from Tel Aviv back to
Istanbul, as another one was taking off from Istanbul to go to Tel Aviv.
The whole thing was just very interesting to watch airlines react to it. Obviously, a lot of these
airlines have global operations, so they keep an eye on everything happening in the world and
they have to react to that in real time, and either cancel flights, divert flights, get their crews out
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to do whatever they need to safely operate, or safely not operate. It was interesting to see the
reactions to that.
Some airlines had a little more of a knee-jerk reaction, at least the three major US airlines. Delta
and American as soon as things started to go sideways, pulled their aircraft and their flight
crews out. Delta landed from JFK, immediately took back off with no passengers, just crew and
any Delta employee who wanted out could get out. American did the same. But United took a
different course, and it's two aircraft, one flight bound for New York and one flight bound for I
believe, Dulles. They stuck around for a few hours to completely fill up the aircraft with its
scheduled passengers and get everyone out and then some really unfortunate that this is how
we have to see how airlines react to a situation. Interesting, nonetheless, to see the different
reactions to something ongoing in real time.
[0:05:07] IP: Yeah. Different governments have reacted in different ways as well in order to get
their citizens out. Some have been using commercial lift and getting their citizens out of Israel,
onboard commercial aircraft and then flying them onward from other locations. Some sent
aircraft all the way from their home countries to pick citizens up. Both Brazil and Chile sent
aircraft. The Brazilian MRTT is currently in the air on the way home from Tel Aviv, back to Rio de
Janeiro. A Chilean Air Force 737-300 left yesterday.
Poland has been running shuttles, basically, using the government 737, C-130s and CASA
295s. The UK sent an RAF voyager down to collect citizens, as well as a Dutch sending an
MRTT, the A330 platform, basically. Then there are commercial airlines that have scheduled, or
said they are going to operate repatriation flights. Lufthansa said that they will operate
repatriation flights. KLM also said that they were going to operate a repatriation flight. Then said
today, based on the experience of the government aircraft and the deteriorating security
situation, they were unable to send an aircraft. They said, after assessing the security situation,
they did not feel comfortable sending their crew into Israel.
[0:06:31] JR: Yeah. The quote from KLM issued by KLM newsroom really didn't minced words.
They straight up said, and I quote here, “Based on the experiences of today's military flight and
the most recent information on the situation in Israel, it is currently insufficient for civil aviation to
carry out safe flight for passengers and crew.” That's a pretty strong statement. It's still difficult
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AVT 237 Transcript
for me to reconcile how some airlines right now are saying, it is unsafe to fight to Israel, while
others are continuing on business more or less as usual. It's a very strange time right now.
Then you have, of course, the Israeli airport authority saying, “No, don't even worry about it.
There's no problem.” They said, after the BA flight return to London, after being on approach,
they said, hey, this comes from Reuters, I believe, a spokesperson for Israel's airport's authority
said, rockets were flying around Tel Aviv at the time, but were not an immediate threat to the
flight, or Ben Gurion airport. I cannot reconcile that sentence in my head. It does not check out.
Rockets in the area means flying is not safe. I don't see how you could possibly say otherwise.
I agree with BA and these other airlines who have decided not to fly to Israel, at least until things
calm down. I just can't figure out how on the one hand they can say, “There are rockets, but
don't worry about it. It's not a problem.”
[0:07:51] IP: The Israeli Civil Aviation Authority has said that there is conflict. We haven't said
anything is closed. Everything is still open. Check with the Civil Aviation Authority for any
updates, but you can continue flying. There are a few interesting new NOTAMs at Ben Gurion
Airport, one of which is that refueling aircraft while passengers are on board is now prohibited.
That's a new one this week. Then outside governments have issued their own NOTAMs. The
FAA has issued a special security notice that says, in part, a potentially hazardous situation in
Israeli airspace due to the ongoing conflict situation between Israel and Gaza, operators are
advised to use caution when operating within the Tel Aviv flight information region. Currently no
restrictions on US flights, but pay attention. If you don't feel safe, don't go there.
The Canadians have said much the same thing. IASA has issued a conflict zone information
bulletin saying roughly the same thing as well. The Russian Aviation Authority, however, has
taken a slightly different stance, a slightly more restrictive stance. I think, Jason, I think we're
both surprised slightly by this. Russia has banned its commercial aircraft from operating into
Israel overnight. They cannot arrive, or depart to Tel Aviv between 2200 and 0400 UTC. Daylight
operations are fine, but no night flying for Russian carriers.
[0:09:34] JR: Okay, that's an interesting one from a country I did not expect to see such a
restriction issued by. There were still Russian airlines operating into Tel Aviv. I don't think any of
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the major airlines, but a lot of super jet activity in and out of Tel Aviv, which is an interesting
footnote, I think. Apparently, that won't be happening at night anytime soon.
[0:09:56] IP: No. Not going to happen at night. Then, I think, the last thing that I think we should
discuss at least a little bit, because it's come up, I know Jason has come up in your
conversations about what's happening, and I know that a few people have asked us about it or
pointed out using some jet photos of Israeli aircraft, Israeli commercial aircraft, and that's the
issue of why some aircraft are flying and the countermeasures available to Israeli commercial
aircraft. I'll let you get into the finer points here, because I think you had a point to make here.
[0:10:29] JR: Not so much a point to make, but I keep seeing it come up on social media that
oh, El Al is operating, or the Israeli airlines, because there are more than just El Al, they're still
operating because they have anti-missile technology and they're not at risk. That is partially
true, I would say less so than in the past, actually. It is true that some Israeli airline aircraft do
have an anti-missile defense system on some of their aircraft. It is on very few aircraft,
especially when you're looking at El Al, and it doesn't actually protect against the weaponry
we're seeing in use right now in Israel. The system actually installed –
[0:11:13] IP: Or we should say, it’s not designed with that weapon. We don't actually know for
sure that it wouldn't protect against something like this.
[0:11:21] JR: With all things military technology, we don't actually know all of the details, and El
Al would never actually tell us all of the capabilities that this thing can, or cannot do. What we do
know is that the system installed on some El Al 737s, very few of them and the 777-200s is
designed to protect against MANPADS, man-portable air-defense systems are basically
shoulder launched, heat seeking surface to air missiles, of which I have not seen any reports of
those actually being used here. Basically, what happens, this is something – there is precedent
for this. There have been issues with this kind of attack in the past in Israel. Basically, it's a
shoulder fired rocket that uses – it's a guided missile, heat seeking missile, but that's just not
what is in being used here in Israel.
We're seeing unguided rockets that are they're dropping down from the air. Basically, they're not
being shot up from the ground. The system installed really isn't going to do much, probably. We
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don't know for sure. Our best guess is that it's not really going to provide much if any defense
here. It was never certified for the 787, which is the bulk, almost the entirety of El Al’s long-haul
fleet at this point. If you do see that mentioned, keep in mind that it's not as comprehensive, or
as protective as some people would like you to think, but it is there, it is on some aircraft, but
probably not going to come into play in this particular conflict. At least yet. We'll see. I hope not.
I hope this is never actually in use, or I'm sure it's in use, but I hope it's never actually deployed,
used actively defending against anything. I did want to just bring up that this misconception that,
“Oh, it’s El Al. It's fine. They'll be safe.” Not really. They're just as vulnerable as any other airline,
which is to say, very.
[0:13:20] IP: We'll continue to follow this and have an update next week on has the situation
stabilized? Has it changed? Has it deteriorated and what's happening? But that's where we'll
leave it for for this week. I don't really have a transition here. We'll go from Tel Aviv to
Chattanooga, I guess?
[0:13:37] JR: Okay. Sister cities. Why not?
[0:13:39] IP: There you go. A FedEx 757 conducted a gear-up landing in Chattanooga late last
week. This particular aircraft was departing Chattanooga from Memphis and had to stop its
climb and run some checklists. Eventually, after trying to use the alternate method to lower the
gear, they weren't successful. They decided to conduct a gear-up landing on the runway at
Chattanooga. The aircraft safely managed that, but was moving fast enough that it went off the
end of the runway. Fortunately, none of the three FedEx crew members onboard were seriously
injured. About as good a result as you're going to get.
[0:14:22] JR: Yeah. There is video of this, if you want to go take a look at that. It's pretty
dramatic, but 757 doing what the 757 does best and it's staying in one piece. It looks sad with
its engines all beat up. If this were a Delta 75, I bet we'd see it back in the air already.
[0:14:43] IP: Probably. They would have jacked it up the same day.
[0:14:45] JR: I do want to bring up one very funny tweet I saw from, apparently, Matthew,
@CabotageEnjoyer on Twitter, and said, “If I were FedEx, I would have directed the crew to
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land at Louisville. No reason your loss can't also be UPS's loss.” I thought that was just a really
stupid, but funny tweet. For those that may not be in, Louisville is UPS's world port hub. I think
it's world port, right? No, that's a –
[0:15:14] IP: Yes.
[0:15:15] JR: Yes, world port hub. Their mega hub. All their flights come in or out of there. If
you're FedEx, why not strange your aircraft on one of their runways? I thought that was just a –
that’s a good comment.
[0:15:26] IP: That's just mean. Funny, but mean.
[0:15:28] JR: It's good.
[0:15:30] IP: It is good. I'll give it to him. It is good.
[0:15:32] JR: Only 200 miles away. Could have made it.
[0:15:33] IP: Yeah. They could have made it. Speaking of not good, Luton in London, the airport
that's not in London, but is somewhat adjacent to London –
[0:15:42] JR: London-ish.
[0:15:43] IP: London-ish had quite the fire last night. On Tuesday the 10th of October, its multi-
story parking garage is –
[0:15:53] JR: Car park.
[0:15:54] IP: My apologies, multi-story car park –
[0:15:56] JR: I already got yelled out about this today. It's car park.
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[0:16:00] IP: Anyway, the building that people put their cars in that used to be multi-story is no
longer multi-story, or at least most of it isn't a multi-story anymore.
[0:16:10] JR: Yeah. Whatever cars are in there that were undamaged, apparently, too bad,
you're not going to get it, because the building is now structurally unsound. What's most
important to us, the aviation folks and the people who track flights, is that for 16 hours, there
were no flights in and out of Luton. I assume, either because of the smoke, or because all of
their firefighting resources were trying to put out the fire in the terminal area, and it was a big
one. Don't know what caused the fire. Of course, Ryanair was first airline back in the air on their
way to Luton after things opened up.
[0:16:43] IP: Excellent.
[0:16:44] JR: Excellent. As one would expect.
[0:16:47] IP: Excellent. I am proud of Ryanair.
[0:16:48] JR: If you parked your car at Luton and you're on vacation right now, call your
insurance company.
[0:16:54] IP: Let's see. BermudAir, the relatively new entrant into what was supposed to be new
entrant into the all-business class configuration airlines, has given up on the all-business class
configuration airline business before it even entered the all-business class configuration
business. They took delivery of a few planes and had, basically a normal cabin in them,
because they hadn't yet gotten to install their brand-new all-business class configuration. Now
they're saying that after feedback on their current configuration and looking at the market,
they're just not going to do that. Their e-jets have 88 seats. They were going to bring them down
to 30. They were going to do a roughly BA A318 deal.
[0:17:54] JR: I believe, they were already blocking adjacent seats. Because remember, it's an
e-jet, so it's just two by two seating. But I do believe they were blocking adjacent seats. It's kind
of a Euro business situation. But I suspect that after operating for a few weeks, they got a feel of
what the loads will be on these flights. They thought, “You know what? Maybe we don't need to
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buy the entire aircraft worth of business class seats, because these seats are expensive. They
can cost tens, or even hundreds of thousands of dollars apiece. Maybe we can just get away
with doing half the airplane with business class.” I think that's a smart move.
[0:18:28] IP: Yeah, I mean, so they're going to do a mix of they're calling it aisle class, and
regular economy seating on their pair of E175s. If you were looking for an all-business class
airline flying to Bermuda, that's not going to happen anymore.
[0:18:46] JR: Too bad. Too bad. Everyone on the very popular Westchester to Bermuda route,
they might have to book economy. Sorry.
[0:18:54] IP: Bummer. That's a bummer. Follow up on one of the stories that we've been
following, one of the more bizarre stories that we've been following for the past, oh, I would say,
a few months now, since we first caught wind of it, CFM has now identified 126 engines,
including a few in its own repair shops that include parts from AOG Technics. Now, this isn't
necessarily to say that there are a 126 engines with parts that have forged documentation, but
they've identified a 126 engines with parts from AOG Technics. Now, they are moving through
the process of understanding exactly, are these okay? How many are problematic? How many
parts do we need to take out and things like that.
CFM, to their credit is doing all of this without charging their airline customers. Anybody who
was hit by the AOG Technics’ malfeasance is going to be made whole by CFM, which I think is a
good thing for them to do. Get those parts out. The one thing I did learn in the news reporting,
and this was new reporting from Flight Global about this, based on an interview with the folks at
CFM, is that a lot of these parts are not wearing. I mean, every part in an engine is critical.
[0:20:17] JR: That’s true.
[0:20:19] IP: A lot of these are bolts and fasteners and washers and things like that.
[0:20:24] JR: I mean, how many accident investigations have concluded that a bolt, or a
fastener, or whatever tiny innocuous piece caused a cascading chain reaction of things that
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went terribly wrong. You can't discount the little fastener that isn't up to spec, because its
documentation was forged. Everything matters.
[0:20:45] IP: I mean, just this week, the NTSB issued a call for stricter safety regulations,
because of a mechanical issue that caused the sea plane crash near Seattle last September. I
mean, that's near Woodby Island. I mean, that I think is the perfect example of a tiny linkage
causing a crash and being the critical piece in the chain of why the aircraft crashed. Yeah. No,
Jason, you're a 100% right.
[0:21:22] JR: Ooh, thank you.
[0:21:24] IP: Wow. Did I just say that?
[0:21:26] JR: All right. Mark that down. Wednesday, October 11th, 5.38 p.m., I was right about a
thing.
[0:21:34] IP: That's the update there as CFM continues to work through and identify any
additional pieces inside the engines that may have come from AOG Technics. We will move on
to everyone hating Qantas, which has apparently become a recurring theme.
[0:21:51] JR: It's going to be a TV show soon. Just titled, Everybody Hates Qantas.
[0:21:55] IP: Oh, boy. In this week's episode, Richard Goyder, who is the Chairman of Qantas
Group, will step down in 2024, ahead of the airline's annual general meeting in October. This is,
“In recognition of the reputational issues facing the group and to support the restoration of trust
in the company.”
[0:22:21] JR: All right.
[0:22:23] IP: Yeah. I mean, it seems like, if executives here are playing things smartly, they're
leaving before they have the chance to be shown the door.
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[0:22:32] JR: That is true. Meanwhile, in other Australian aviation news, Virgin Australia
recorded its first profit in 11 years this past –
[0:22:42] IP: Hey, good for them.
[0:22:44] JR: That is outstanding. Also, how the hell has Virgin Australia not been able to turn a
profit one time in the last 11 years? They're practically a duopoly in that country. Has Qantas
been – I guess, Qantas really has been that absolutely dominant in Australia. That's outrageous.
[0:23:02] IP: I guess, that goes to show you how much people don't like Qantas. We dislike
Qantas so much now that we handed Virgin Australia its first profit in 11 years.
[0:23:15] JR: That is crazy. I mean, not only did Virgin Australia barely survive COVID, it
stopped flying long haul entirely. So many of its aircraft were repossessed by our good friend,
Steve Giordano. I don't think he's been to Australia recently, but I know they were there in the
peak of COVID. Pretty crazy that this is what it took to get Virgin Australia its first profit in 11
years. That is not a figure. I would have even remotely said, “Oh, that's not possible. They must
have been profitable over the last couple of years.” But nope, first profit in 11 years. Meanwhile,
everybody's mad at Qantas. Australia, you've got a strange aviation industry.
[0:23:56] IP: We'll keep following it.
[0:23:58] JR: They've got two airlines, but it's always so much drama.
[0:24:02] IP: I don't know what to tell you. Finnair, on the other hand, is saying that they're
pretty well and good as far as their narrowbody fleet's concerned for now. They don't want to
deal with the newfangled engines. They don't want to deal with ordering aircraft that might never
be delivered. They're just content to have slightly older, more reliable aircraft that have
availability. I mostly cannot blame them.
[0:24:34] JR: That point of view, I don't know. That approach to aircraft technology, that will
work for a while. Finnair is one of probably the few major airlines in the world that does not have
any new engine technology narrowbody aircraft at all. Its average fleet age of its A319COs is
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over 22. Its A320s is over 21. Its 321s are relatively new at over nine years on average. I cannot
name you another large mainline carrier that doesn't have any next generation narrowbodies. I
mean, not next generation, unless you're counting the 73NG, but an airline that does not have
any neos, or any MAXs, I am struggling to name any other major airline in the world that doesn't
have either one of those two.
Finnair, not only do they not have any, they don't have any on order. I don't know what their
strategy is, but once those 319s, 320s start hitting 25, 30-years old, they're going to need to be
replaced whether or not they want a neo or a MAX. I don't know what their plan is, but Ian, can
you think of any other airline in this?
[0:25:45] IP: I mean, I'm having trouble coming up with any. Any flag carriers without at least
some on order. Yeah, if anyone else can think of any, email us.
[0:25:58] JR: I’m just going to call it. Finnair is probably the largest airline in the world that
doesn't have any new engine technology narrowbodies. I cannot think of any other airline of
Finnair size that it's just that, “You know what? No, we're going to sit this one out.”
[0:26:12] IP: All right. Well, if anybody else can think of any, email us at podcast@fr24.com and
let us know. Finnair for its part says that they're happy looking into the leasing market for aircraft
that are coming available, that are –
[0:26:26] JR: This is going to bother me.
[0:26:28] IP: The current engine.
[0:26:28] JR: I need to know, is this true?
[0:26:32] IP: We'll see what they do. Somebody email us and help Jason out.
[0:26:35] JR: Help me.
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[0:26:36] IP: On the new engine front and new aircraft front, TAAG Angola has said that it is
going to take four 787s.
[0:26:46] JR: Eventually, one day unspecified, don't know what kind, don't know how big, don't
know when, but they will maybe take them eventually to replace their now aging 777-200 and
300 ER fleet. Got an airline you hear much about ever.
[0:27:04] IP: No. I do enjoy their livery. I think it would be nice to see a 787 in that paint
scheme.
[0:27:10] JR: Yeah, it's a nice one.
[0:27:11] IP: Another livery I very much enjoy is Luxair’s, and they're picking up some new
aircraft too, right?
[0:27:17] JR: Yes. Four E195 E2s. Delivery is not starting until the fourth quarter of 2025. We've
got a little while to wait for that. They've secured, and I’m quoting, “Delivery positions for five
more.” Another airline you don't really hear all that much about ordering an aircraft. You don't
really hear all that much about.
[0:27:37] IP: Their fleet is a very interesting mix, because they've got the 737. They've got Dash
8s. Now, they're going to have E195 E2s. I think that'll be fun.
[0:27:49] JR: Yeah. There's some Dash 8s mixed in there as well. A couple E190.
Unfortunately, I don't believe there is an E190 E2 out there. Yeah, an interesting fleet for an
airline from Luxembourg, a country you don't hear much about. Forget about an airline you don't
hear much.
[0:28:07] IP: Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. They do have a great livery though. I mean, it’s –
[0:28:10] JR: It is nice.
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[0:28:12] IP: The waving flag. There's a special name for when you make it look like the flag is
waving on –
[0:28:19] JR: Wavy flag.
[0:28:22] IP: Sure. But they do a very good job.
[0:28:23] JR: They have one in particular, a 73800NG. A special livery with, I guess, it
incorporates a part of the actual Luxemborgian flag. It's got a lion with wings in the front. It is
spectacular. I think it might be their 60th anniversary livery. Not quite sure. I'm only seeing this
for the first time right now. It is one of the nicest liveries I have ever seen.
[0:28:51] IP: They do a good job.
[0:28:52] JR: Is that Turkish Airlines logo on the top of the tail? What is that doing up there? If
you happen to see that, the –
[0:28:58] IP: I'm going to do the rest of the podcast now, while Jason continues to pour over this
livery.
[0:29:02] JR: I'm just looking at it. It's LXLGV, if you happen to see it. Look it up, because it's
worth the time. It is a nice one.
[0:29:08] IP: Hey, how about a link in the show notes? We'll do that. We'll do you one better.
Also new is Air India's first A350 with the new livery has made it home. They've taken delivery of
their first, and it looks like it's supposed to, I guess is the –
[0:29:25] JR: Yeah. I'm still on the fence about this one. I can't tell if I like it, or not, or I'm
indifferent. It's just weird seeing an Air India aircraft without the window decorations on the
exterior. I don't know.
[0:29:37] IP: Yeah. I mean, I want to see a better picture of it than the one they posted, which is
kind of in the painting.
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[0:29:41] JR: Also, true. Well, I mean, the pictures I saw, the aircraft didn't have engines on it.
Did it make it home already? Or is it still being painted?
[0:29:50] IP: I will double check.
[0:29:50] JR: I'm pretty sure it's in the paint hanger, until it didn't actually make it home just yet.
[0:29:55] IP: Okay. Well, I'll double check. Where are we going? More paint.
[0:29:58] JR: More paint. We love paint.
[0:29:59] IP: We love paint. Americans' retro liveries. We've got two more this week. The US
Airways retro livery was repainted. That one's staying the same. N578UW. The Allegheny Livery
is now on an A321 N579UW. They're shifting all of the retro liveries to the A321. Well, I don't
know if they're doing all, because there's the AirCal and TWA that were on 737s, or are on
737s? Interesting to see if that sticks then out.
[0:30:34] JR: Yeah. I think any that were previously on US Airways A319s, of which there were
a good number are being moved over to 321s. Don't know why I'm okay with it, because of all
the US Airlines, American, thankfully, has a really good habit of embracing its heritage and any
possible variation of American and US Airways' past has ended up as a retro livery. I think
there's Allegheny, US Airways, PSA. What are some of the other ones that I know I'm
forgetting?
[0:31:06] IP: Yeah. PSA, Allegheny, Piedmont.
[0:31:08] JR: Piedmont. There's more. I don't know. There's a lot of them.
[0:31:11] IP: AirCal. Reno.
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AVT 237 Transcript
[0:31:12] JR: AirCal. Thank you, Reno. There's a lot of them. I can't even remember them all.
United has a couple. They have the Continental retro paint job and they also have the old
United livery paint job. Wait, is that even a thing, or just the Continental one these days?
[0:31:27] IP: I think that the Friend Ship was still around. It was part for a very long time.
[0:31:29] JR: Yes, the A320 Friend Ship. That's correct. It's still out there. Then there's Delta,
which has no recognition of its past, or history ever. You will never see right now.
[0:31:39] IP: I think on multiple occasions, flatly refused to even acknowledge that it's a
possibility that a retro livery is.
[0:31:47] JR: That will probably never happen, unfortunately, even though there's so, so, so
much history leading up to the current day Delta. American really leans heavily into it. I salute
them for that.
[0:32:00] IP: There you go. Yeah, they're doing a nice job. We end the show on a very sad, but
hopeful note, I think. The young man that we met in Los Angeles at the beginning of September
during Dorkfest, Ethan Weiner, who is from Phoenix, Arizona, and convinced his mother to bring
him to Los Angeles for Dorkfest and Spot LAX and convinced her using a 25-slide PowerPoint
presentation, who Jason and I were both incredibly impressed with. I think anybody who met
him was incredibly impressed with him. He was a delight to talk to and just extremely
knowledgeable already, and he's only 14. This week, we received news that Ethan has been
diagnosed with a brain tumor. He is going to Memphis, Tennessee. There is a hospital there and
doctors there who are adept at treating this particular type of tumor.
The family has begun a GoFundMe to help cover expenses and things like that. We'll put a link
to that in the show notes, if anyone can and is willing to contribute, I'm sure that would certainly
be appreciated by Ethan and his family. Just so soon after meeting him and being so incredibly
impressed by his passion for aviation, this is just a real punch in the gut.
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AVT 237 Transcript
[0:33:30] JR: Yeah, hate to hear news that. But we wish him well. We wish his family well, and
take a look in the show notes and I guess, give a little something if you feel like you need to
work, or can.
[0:33:42] IP: The aviation community, it's wide, but it's very small. In my experience, it's
extremely caring. Hopefully, we can come through for Ethan. This has been episode 237 of
AvTalk. If you made it this far, you're probably a regular listener and you're probably pretty
dedicated to flightradar24, so we'll give you a little preview of what we're talking about next
week. We absolutely thank you for that.
We'll give you a little preview about what we're going to talk about next week. Earlier today, we
released updates for the Android, iOS apps and the web that includes a new 3D view. Go check
that out and you'll be able to see some ultra-realistic models and liveries for a bunch of different
airlines. We're super excited about that. Next week on the show, we're going to be chatting with
the folks at Infinite Flight, who created those models and shared those liveries with us. We'll talk
more about how that all came together and what Infinite Flight is and what they're up to next.
Stay tuned for that.
[0:34:50] JR: Well, that’s interesting. We might even join for that interview, if I can get out of
some meetings. That sounds fun.
[0:34:55] IP: There you go. Yeah, we'll have a good time. Until then, this has been episode 237
of AvTalk. I am Ian Petchenik, here, as always with –
[0:35:05] JR: Jason Rabinowitz. Thanks for listening.
[END]
© 2023 AvTalk 17