Part 1: Distinct and Diverse. A Discussion on the Artists Journey.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, nathan, coming to you from Pooch Cove, newfoundland.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's see, we've got 30 mile an hour, winds blowing with snow flurries, and it's been a frustrating day for me in the studio.

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<v Speaker 2>I know we've talked about this quite a bit our ups and downs in our last episode.

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<v Speaker 2>You and I talk about those things a lot, but, man, I've been fighting with the work and want to do new stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Old stuff keeps rearing its head and so I'm just trying to sit back and not scream at the top of my lungs at the canvas regularly, because I'll wake everybody up in the studios around me.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyways, jumping in real quick, this is going to be fun.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm away at Pooch Cove, like I said, in Newfoundland, at the Pooch Cove Artist in Residence that is brought to the world from the James Baird Gallery, and it's just.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't even tell you how amazing this place is.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're following me on Instagram, you've seen pictures and pictures sharing and, nathan, you were supposed to be here with us and you are deeply missed.

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<v Speaker 2>Pictures sharing and, nathan, you were supposed to be here with us and you are deeply missed.

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<v Speaker 2>There are seven of our dear artist friends here with me at this artist in residence and we talk about you regularly, so I just want to know.

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<v Speaker 2>You're still a party part of us in spirit here, and you and I have been trying to think about a way to include our friends, these artists, in this podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>How do we do this?

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<v Speaker 2>What are we going to do?

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<v Speaker 2>How can we include them?

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<v Speaker 2>And I think we came up with a pretty fun way.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to spoil it, because I talk about it a little bit and it was your idea, but here we go.

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<v Speaker 2>This is really fun, coming to you from Pooch Cove, newfoundland, a bunch of artists sitting in a gallery talking about things that inspire us.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you ready, nathan?

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<v Speaker 3>I am ready and I will do my best to.

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<v Speaker 3>So I've listened to this already, but I will do my best to set aside my FOMO feelings that I have around not being able to be there.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a great conversation.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm excited for everybody to hear it, but it was difficult for me in that way to not to know that I couldn't be there.

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<v Speaker 3>But super cool conversation.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's uh, let's roll it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, let's go all right.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is going to be awesome because these little mics you know, we're actual tiktok artists today with our little microphones welcome to just make art.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody super excited for this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a really special episode today, I think, and we are going to be coming to you from Pooch Cove, newfoundland, and I'm here with seven other artists there's six other artists up here with me and the other one is sitting and watching and we miss you, bonnie, and we love you, and we are a part of the Pooch Cove Artist in Residence program that is run by the James Baird Gallery and the wonderful James Baird, and we are all here together for a month and I know every single person up here pretty damn well, except for Francis, but I think I'm getting to know her pretty dang well.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now Nathan isn't here with us.

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<v Speaker 2>He's in Dallas doing some filming and we were talking about a way to try and include all of the artists here because everybody's such dear friends of ours into the podcast, and Nathan had the wonderful idea to do a panel and for each of the artists to bring a quote, just like the Just Make Art podcast, that inspires them.

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<v Speaker 2>That also can kind of fit into studio practice, and so today we're gonna have a little bit of discourse on the quotes and talk amongst each other, really about the things we do at dinner every night here in Pooch Cove.

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<v Speaker 2>And Nathan yesterday was at the Fort Worth Modern and he was texting me about how excited he was to be sitting with a Mark Bradford work and an Anselm Kiefer work all in the same day, and I know he was blown away.

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<v Speaker 2>And this was Nathan's idea, by the way, not mine to have everybody up here.

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<v Speaker 2>So, just so you know, he thought this would be amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>You should do a panel with everybody and bring quotes to the table, and it's going to be great.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm really excited and I am going to introduce everybody here in a second, but it's going to be really informal.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to laugh, we're going to joke, we're going to have a good time.

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<v Speaker 2>I know Moxa is going to make fun of me, I'm sure, at some point for some things that I've done here and, like I said, I know everybody up here, but you don't.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're going to pass the little mic, the tiny mouse mics, around and have everybody just give a brief introduction to themselves and then we will get started.

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<v Speaker 6>Hi, I'm Allison Hudson.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm a sculptor and I'm based out of Philadelphia.

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<v Speaker 4>I am Gianna Tassone.

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<v Speaker 4>I am a painter and a little bit more multimedia and based out of New York City.

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<v Speaker 7>I am Jacqueline Gordian.

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<v Speaker 7>I am a painter, sculptor.

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<v Speaker 7>Any medium I can get my hands on incorporate natural elements into my work, and I'm based out of Michigan.

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<v Speaker 8>Hi, I'm Audrey Shah and I'm from Montreal and I'm an abstract painter.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, I'm Frances Beatty and I am an installation artist, site-specific installations, as well as sculptor, and I'm based in Philadelphia.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, hi, my name is Mokshananda.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm an abstract figurative artist and I'm based in Valencia, in Spain.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the best part is, everybody up here is from different places around the world, and that's exciting and that's what I love about art is, all of our work is different and distinct, and we're all from different locations, so we have the ability to learn from each other's culture how we make work and those things while we're here, and it's just an incredible time.

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<v Speaker 2>And, just so you know, please check the podcast notes because I'll have the Instagram handle for everybody that's here at the residency with us here in Pooch Cove, and so let's go ahead and jump into some quotes.

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<v Speaker 2>Who is brave enough to start us today?

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<v Speaker 2>Here's the thing we're all artists and we're all different.

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<v Speaker 2>So some of us absolutely love this sitting up here and talking and sharing stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Some of us absolutely hate it.

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<v Speaker 2>Some of us really want to get better at it.

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<v Speaker 2>Some of us, our English isn't as good as others, although I think everybody's English here is absolutely fantastic.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyways, it's going to be really fun.

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<v Speaker 2>So who's going to be the bold and brave one to start us off today?

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<v Speaker 2>Anybody, jacqueline.

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<v Speaker 7>Yes, okay.

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<v Speaker 7>So my quote comes from Louise Bourgeois, a French artist which everyone here probably knows, if you don't Google her.

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<v Speaker 7>She passed just not that long ago, maybe 10, 14 years ago, 2010,.

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<v Speaker 7>Maybe she worked in many, many mediums which I admire greatly and she worked till the very end of her life, but she I'm giving a lot of back history to that's fine, that's great.

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<v Speaker 7>She held these salons, especially in her older age, and she would have younger artists come in and show her their work and she would critique and have conversations.

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<v Speaker 7>That I thought was amazing, and you can see these on YouTube as well.

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<v Speaker 7>You actually sent a couple of those to me at some point.

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<v Speaker 7>But she's talking to this one young artist and she said to them well, what, what does that, what did it do to you making that piece?

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<v Speaker 7>What did it do something good to you?

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<v Speaker 7>What was that like?

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<v Speaker 7>And it really like.

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<v Speaker 7>I had to stop the video for a second and really think about that, because it was such a like personal question and I hadn't really thought about my work in that way.

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<v Speaker 7>I was always thinking about the end product but not about, like, what it was to make.

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<v Speaker 7>So then the quote the actual quote that I want to talk about today was I'm not exactly sure where it came, but it's a longer quote, not longer, it's two sentences.

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<v Speaker 7>At some point she said everywhere in the modern world there's neglect, the need to be recognized, which is not satisfied.

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<v Speaker 7>Art is a way of recognizing oneself, which is why it'll always be modern.

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<v Speaker 7>Want me to read it again?

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<v Speaker 7>Yes, Everywhere in the modern world there's neglect, the need to be recognized, which is not satisfied.

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<v Speaker 7>Art is a way of recognizing oneself, which is why it will always be modern, and I think the part of that that stuck with me was the art is a way of recognizing oneself and through my work it just became very apparent that the further I go into it, the further I see myself in my work, and it just felt like a I don't know a lot of head nods and I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks about that quote.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's powerful.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean we've talked about a few quotes that have some similarities to that that if you're not really seeing who you are while you're working, you might be really far off from where you're supposed to be.

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<v Speaker 2>Art is discovery, and it's just as much discovery about yourself as it is about where you're going with your work.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think when you finally kind of hit those moments where you're starting to really recognize pieces of you in what you're doing, you're starting to really get in a rhythm and in a direction where you're supposed to be going yeah, I like that quote.

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<v Speaker 5>That's good.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, for me it's.

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<v Speaker 5>It's to do with, through the process of making art, becoming clear about what is most significant and meaningful to me.

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<v Speaker 5>So I guess in that way, you know, recognizing myself or whatever, but it's, it's kind of honing down through the process into what most touches me, what most deeply resonates for me, or something like that.

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, good quote.

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<v Speaker 7>I like that.

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<v Speaker 7>I like that we're talking about like honing down, like getting tighter and tighter to who you are, or at least closer and closer yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, maybe not.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, who I am, in the sense of what is most meaningful to me, something like that yeah, yeah, I don't know what other people think.

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<v Speaker 5>What do you think, francis?

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<v Speaker 1>oh, you know, I I really loved it more on the fact that it really gives a person this sense of focus and and and, like we said, purpose.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not saying anything profound from what you're saying, but it it it's like bingo to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, it just was that, like you know, a bingo card boom, boom, boom.

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<v Speaker 1>So as you're doing your work, it becomes bingo when that moment happens that aha, it's just, and we're all striving to hit that aha moment and and you get these little oh yeah, so that I loved it well, yeah, and I think for me, I I find those moments when I can step back from the work, you know.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, like when you're in the moment, it, you know, you're kind of like staying open, it can flow through you, and that's when you're getting to your authenticity and like putting yourself into the work and you're you don't even know what you're doing, you know.

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<v Speaker 6>And then, but when you're able to kind of step back, uh, you know, even after you've made several pieces, or you know a body of work and kind of look at it and you say, oh okay, that's what that might have been about.

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<v Speaker 4>I'd actually like to share my portion because it goes into what's being said right now.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, you said something about kind of boiling down to what it is Recently, very much so recently, and actually started quite a few years ago.

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<v Speaker 4>But I've been really wrestling with the concept of essence and so I kind of like two, two quotes.

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<v Speaker 4>One, one that has struck me and then I've been really living by, is a nugget of wisdom, rather from one of my undergrad professors, dave 80 shout out, jake, dave 80 love him.

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<v Speaker 4>In one of my sculpture classes we were working with a project and we had to use one material to accomplish the end.

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<v Speaker 4>The end goal, and one thing that he reiterated from the start to the finish was embrace your constraints.

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<v Speaker 4>That hit me so clearly and that was a good.

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<v Speaker 4>You know I sound so young saying this, but, like seven, eight years ago in my junior year of college, I have held on to that piece of wisdom.

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<v Speaker 4>Ever since then.

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<v Speaker 4>It has been very prevalent recently as I've had to really use what I have because I've been constrained in a lot of ways with, you know, so many different elements of my life.

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<v Speaker 4>But I have realized that I don't, I don't need all this excess.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't need all of the shiny, flashy new things.

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<v Speaker 4>I have everything that I need All the materials I have, my problem-solving skills.

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<v Speaker 4>It's all up here in my brain.

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<v Speaker 4>It's a beautiful thing to realize and that's when I've understood that.

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<v Speaker 4>That's where the essence of who I am lies and that's where really true, beautiful, authentic work comes from, is when you can boil down to what it really is and let go of all the crutches and the fears and those kinds of things.

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<v Speaker 4>And the second part of this is a quote from Mark Rothko, one of my favorite artists and seeing his work.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, his piece that I saw was one of the first pieces of work that moved me viscerally, like I it was.

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<v Speaker 4>It brought me to like subtle tears.

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<v Speaker 4>I was like what is going on here?

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<v Speaker 4>But his work is is beautiful and bold and big and sublime and it just uses color and form.

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<v Speaker 4>And he says there's more power in telling little than in telling all and I think that works into like the embrace your constraints.

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<v Speaker 4>Less is more, in a way like just tapping into the essence of what it is, and that's something that I've been loving seeing and seeing coming through in my work and really pressing more into, but it really is about discovering yourself who you are at the core.

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<v Speaker 2>Give me both mics.

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<v Speaker 8>I have a lot to say.

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<v Speaker 2>I need two, I need two on that one, maybe my full brain encompassed here.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I love that quote, dave 80.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I don't think I've ever met him before.

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<v Speaker 2>When you're an artist, you start out using nothing, right, like we've all.

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<v Speaker 2>All of us have had the moments where we have no supplies, no, nothing, and we have to figure out how to make something, because that's who we are, at our core, we are makers, and I think we master that.

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<v Speaker 2>If you haven't mastered that, then you're not going to be able to make something with a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>You just aren't.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think for any, any beginning artists out there, that's listening, and I tell this to artists all the time, and you have all heard this from me use whatever you have.

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<v Speaker 2>Nobody can tell you to not use homemade chemicals or or food or Kool-Aid, or coffee or tea for paint, or go out and use sticks and rope and twine that you find in the road to make a sculpture Like you.

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<v Speaker 2>Use whatever you have.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a fabulous artist that I follow on Instagram, julian Smith, and he's using his jackets.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, he's using stuff that he has in his home that he's not using right now and he cuts his puffy jackets out and he sews them to the canvas.

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<v Speaker 2>Or he sews them to a bed sheet and like, puts little pieces from his floor in his room in there and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's like, if we can master using little, when we get to the point where we have more and more and more, I just think you have an explosion waiting to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>So don't be, don't look down on yourself if you don't have enough, or if you see other artists, because Instagram is great medicine but it's also a horrible drug that we tend to go.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh well, they just make better art because they have a bigger studio.

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<v Speaker 2>Or Ian Ray Smith just has so much oil paints to play with.

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<v Speaker 2>How does he have so much oil paint to put on all these canvases?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, that's me saying that.

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<v Speaker 2>Where does it come from?

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<v Speaker 2>Throw all that stuff out and go.

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<v Speaker 2>I have what I have and make Like I can't tell you how many times I've had to run to Home Depot and get the little cheap pints of oops, the mess up paints that I can use on drop cloth, because I can't afford to buy canvas, and so I cut up the drop cloth and I find wood to make stretchers.

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<v Speaker 2>Artists that are listening, it doesn't matter, you can make incredible art with little.

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<v Speaker 1>I really think the quote that I have is going to play right into what you're talking about Ty I'm just going to.

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<v Speaker 5>Is it going to be over in half an hour?

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<v Speaker 1>It'll be over.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we've done our quotes.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Ursula von Reiting's part.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to speak about her, I just want to read the quote, because it really speaks about, you know, finding what you have and then going for it.

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<v Speaker 1>But then it's the next step.

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<v Speaker 1>So here comes the quote.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing has to be logical.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't have to explain what you do and why you do it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a whole other arena that you have to put yourself in and you have to feel safety in that arena.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what will give you your courage.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what will give you the right to do what things deep in you are yearning for.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I feel that that's when we start.

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<v Speaker 1>Half the time we probably don't know what we're trying to do, so it's a yearning.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you go oh, I don't know what we're trying to do, so it's a yearning.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you go, oh, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's about the courage, and I really love the way she puts this and her whole mantra with the form follows function.

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<v Speaker 1>You know everyone says that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, her main thing is form follows feeling.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's about, like you said, don't worry about what you're working with.

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<v Speaker 6>How do you feel at that moment in time?

00:16:42.774 --> 00:16:43.155
<v Speaker 6>And that's.

00:16:43.658 --> 00:16:46.567
<v Speaker 1>It's everything we're all saying about being in touch with yourself.

00:16:46.567 --> 00:16:48.091
<v Speaker 1>But I just love that.

00:16:48.091 --> 00:16:58.326
<v Speaker 1>The part about not having to explain to people is big to me because you know we all want to have our own language and create the dialogue with with everybody.

00:16:58.326 --> 00:17:02.910
<v Speaker 1>So I hate when people ask me what is it supposed to be or what were you going for?

00:17:02.910 --> 00:17:04.470
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

00:17:04.470 --> 00:17:11.232
<v Speaker 1>You know half the time we don't know, but we have to trust ourselves to go on the trip and go into the process.

00:17:11.232 --> 00:17:13.071
<v Speaker 1>So I just love her.

00:17:13.071 --> 00:17:14.368
<v Speaker 1>So everybody, look her up.

00:17:14.368 --> 00:17:15.794
<v Speaker 1>Ursula von Riding Scott.

00:17:18.605 --> 00:17:22.836
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I love the term going to the arena.

00:17:22.836 --> 00:17:34.502
<v Speaker 8>I find that's really a really powerful image and I think it takes a lot of courage and humility to have the I don't know the courage.

00:17:34.502 --> 00:17:50.085
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, the courage to go out there and show yourself and not knowing what's going to come out of you, because it's unconscious what's going on, and, yeah, it's putting ourselves very vulnerable and at risk Very much.

00:17:50.085 --> 00:17:55.534
<v Speaker 8>And I'll let other people speak, but I think my quote will go well with that one after that.

00:17:56.805 --> 00:18:00.886
<v Speaker 5>I was going to say, going back to jana's quote about, about constraints.

00:18:00.886 --> 00:18:03.953
<v Speaker 5>I mean, there's always constraints, isn't there?

00:18:03.953 --> 00:18:07.750
<v Speaker 5>You could have all the material in the world and there'd be constraints.

00:18:07.750 --> 00:18:12.989
<v Speaker 5>And you know, probably the biggest constraints are are inner constraints, aren't they?

00:18:12.989 --> 00:18:17.000
<v Speaker 5>So you know what what you're bringing out there is.

00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:18.384
<v Speaker 5>It's just so important.

00:18:18.384 --> 00:18:24.838
<v Speaker 5>I mean, certainly, in my own case, my, my biggest constraints have been inner constraints or can be.

00:18:24.838 --> 00:18:30.890
<v Speaker 5>And I'm just wondering if it kind of relates to what your quote, which I can't quite remember at the beginning.

00:18:30.890 --> 00:18:32.855
<v Speaker 5>Was it something about a culture of neglect?

00:18:33.444 --> 00:18:35.151
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, in the modern world there's neglect.

00:18:35.633 --> 00:18:35.913
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

00:18:35.913 --> 00:18:39.193
<v Speaker 5>So I mean, what does that mean?

00:18:39.193 --> 00:18:47.977
<v Speaker 5>I mean it's a good question, but it you know there's a in the west, at least you know which is, which is where we're from.

00:18:47.977 --> 00:18:50.226
<v Speaker 5>What does it mean to be in a culture of neglect?

00:18:50.226 --> 00:19:05.862
<v Speaker 5>Um, is it, is it getting that, you know a culture where we don't really value our own qualities, whatever they are, our own way of being and our own responses to life.

00:19:05.862 --> 00:19:10.636
<v Speaker 5>We tend to kind of feel we should be a certain way or whatever.

00:19:10.636 --> 00:19:12.130
<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

00:19:12.130 --> 00:19:20.673
<v Speaker 5>I just find it really interesting how that ties together and just that sense of a cultural neglect and art being a way of coming back to oneself, in a sense.

00:19:21.346 --> 00:19:46.210
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I would agree with that sentiment or that interpretation of the beginning of the quote, but I have my own biases towards the culture in which we live, so I think that probably is how I would read it as well that it's, with a world of so much demand and distraction, trying to find time to recognize yourself and the fact that what you're thinking and what you want to do have value and it's something that you should do Of all the shoulds that you see in here in the world.

00:19:46.210 --> 00:19:50.931
<v Speaker 7>Right, like doing the thing that your heart or that your soul wants to do is the thing that you should follow.

00:19:50.931 --> 00:19:55.910
<v Speaker 7>But I agree and the Ursula quote, the idea of not having to explain what you do.

00:19:55.910 --> 00:19:58.958
<v Speaker 7>It feels like counterintuitive to your point about Instagram.

00:19:58.958 --> 00:20:06.586
<v Speaker 7>Right, it feels like you always have to be saying what you're doing and why you're doing something and all of that versus just here's what's happening and let other people kind of interpret it too.

00:20:06.586 --> 00:20:06.866
<v Speaker 7>Right?

00:20:06.866 --> 00:20:10.605
<v Speaker 7>I fall into that trap quite often and trying to find the right words to say about things.

00:20:11.567 --> 00:20:19.518
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking of Ursula and Louise, who are from two different times, both female artists, who are from two different times.

00:20:19.518 --> 00:20:31.638
<v Speaker 2>Both female artists, both who work in scale, very large scale, both who started with natural elements, which usually for an artist is the easiest thing to start with because you can go find it out back right, you can find it in the yard.

00:20:31.638 --> 00:20:38.076
<v Speaker 2>And then, moving on into larger things, and thinking of Louise's quote, like that neglect.

00:20:38.076 --> 00:20:39.499
<v Speaker 2>When did she write it?

00:20:39.499 --> 00:20:46.175
<v Speaker 2>In the 40s and the 30s and the 60s For me, I mean, I'm a man so I can't put myself in your shoes.

00:20:46.644 --> 00:21:01.729
<v Speaker 2>But looking at her, is she speaking of the neglect, of herself being neglected, thinking of French culture and a woman and the culture of women at the time when she started making work that outdid most men on the planet at the time.

00:21:01.729 --> 00:21:03.131
<v Speaker 2>But she's still neglected.

00:21:03.131 --> 00:21:12.335
<v Speaker 2>She's making work that is absolutely insane scale, wise, thought, wise, challenging, socially provoked, provoking like.

00:21:12.335 --> 00:21:18.541
<v Speaker 2>But still, where is she compared to all the other men in her culture and in the art culture that time?

00:21:18.541 --> 00:21:23.832
<v Speaker 2>So maybe that culture of neglect is maybe she's speaking, I don't know, that's just a guess for me, I don't know.

00:21:23.832 --> 00:21:26.594
<v Speaker 2>Hopefully that sparks a little conversation too in the room.

00:21:27.164 --> 00:21:32.151
<v Speaker 7>Knowing a little bit about her history which I know you know a lot about it I'd say that's probably part of it.

00:21:32.151 --> 00:21:35.672
<v Speaker 7>But the other part is when her mom passed, her dad was.

00:21:35.672 --> 00:21:37.634
<v Speaker 7>It was just a bad relationship.

00:21:37.634 --> 00:21:47.596
<v Speaker 7>So I feel like the neglect probably came in from that too, and the recognizing oneself probably came in from that too, recognizing that she had to go inward to get the love that maybe she was missing from her mom after she passed.

00:21:47.596 --> 00:21:56.037
<v Speaker 7>But I would agree with the art world neglect as well, because I think she had to move to New York to even start getting shows from France when she, as she puts it, ran away from Paris.

00:21:56.037 --> 00:21:59.413
<v Speaker 7>But yeah, I think it's probably a combination of a lot of things.

00:22:00.404 --> 00:22:10.471
<v Speaker 4>Jacqueline, when you said neglect, like as the conversation was going on, what came to mind was the concept of trust, like, do we trust ourselves?

00:22:10.471 --> 00:22:19.195
<v Speaker 4>You know, when there's when I think, when there's an absence of trust, that neglect really is really strong.

00:22:19.195 --> 00:22:41.268
<v Speaker 4>And I'm speaking kind of personally for me and sorry if this is kind of drawing away a little bit too much, but we are, we're so bombarded with so much information, so many opinions, so many perspectives, it's difficult to understand, like what, what is it that we're trying to say, or what we're, what we want to communicate, like what our voice is, what our language is.

00:22:41.268 --> 00:22:53.568
<v Speaker 4>I mean, we see that with social issues, with social media, with everything, how are we actually going to tap into like that, that streamline of of truth and like being able to trust our intuition?

00:22:53.568 --> 00:22:57.946
<v Speaker 4>But I'm just thinking also in the, in the terms of Ty, what you said.

00:22:57.946 --> 00:23:03.211
<v Speaker 4>You know, when a lot of artists start with natural materials, that that makes me think of also.

00:23:03.632 --> 00:23:08.932
<v Speaker 4>When I was a kid, I'd go play in the backyard and like find sticks and dirt and you know, that's what.

00:23:08.932 --> 00:23:10.155
<v Speaker 4>That's what kids do we?

00:23:10.155 --> 00:23:26.301
<v Speaker 4>We find we, as I'm speaking, like I'm a, I'm a kid, my inner, my inner four-year-old shows when I make artwork and that like it has to for for artists to make good work, we have to tap into our inner child and be explorative and be just.

00:23:26.301 --> 00:23:26.863
<v Speaker 4>We can't.

00:23:26.863 --> 00:23:30.634
<v Speaker 4>We can't worry about what other people think, and that's what I.

00:23:30.634 --> 00:23:38.795
<v Speaker 4>That's another part of what I love looking into as well as is like the empathy, like being able to empathize, like that.

00:23:38.795 --> 00:23:50.896
<v Speaker 4>So there's a kind of a double-edged sword with that, with like I can pick up on what other people are feeling, but then then that can like bleed too much into what I'm trying to feel and what I'm trying to say.

00:23:50.896 --> 00:23:57.269
<v Speaker 4>Anyways, to take on the mind of a child and just to trust our abilities and to trust you know who we are at our core.

00:23:57.269 --> 00:24:02.057
<v Speaker 4>It's a beautiful thing Just to tap into that, stay locked into that in creating.

00:24:02.558 --> 00:24:03.078
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

00:24:03.805 --> 00:24:06.894
<v Speaker 6>And to remember to make the work for yourself.

00:24:06.894 --> 00:24:09.011
<v Speaker 6>You're not making the work for other people.

00:24:09.011 --> 00:24:14.492
<v Speaker 6>I think with Instagram and all that stuff, I think people start to forget that.

00:24:14.492 --> 00:24:18.394
<v Speaker 6>But the work isn't going to be true unless you're making it for yourself.

00:24:19.016 --> 00:24:19.457
<v Speaker 2>Great point.

00:24:24.825 --> 00:24:27.333
<v Speaker 5>Great point, so I think my quote is a little bit more straightforward.

00:24:27.353 --> 00:24:28.517
<v Speaker 8>It's from jerry saltz.

00:24:28.537 --> 00:24:44.655
<v Speaker 8>So these ones, straightforward I mean, but it's less, it's a bit less poetic, I mean you know here and it talks about courage and the vulnerability and I'm a lot in touch with those themes when I work.

00:24:44.655 --> 00:24:50.300
<v Speaker 8>So it goes like this it doesn't matter how scared you are, everyone is scared.

00:24:50.300 --> 00:24:59.742
<v Speaker 8>Work, you big baby, work is the only thing that banishes the curse of fear.

00:24:59.742 --> 00:25:05.608
<v Speaker 8>So that quote really, and that's from that's from jerry saltz.

00:25:05.628 --> 00:25:16.333
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, it's always with me in the studio because I struggle a lot with that, like just sometimes feeling paralyzed and the resistance of stephen pressfield, who we talked about a lot.

00:25:16.333 --> 00:25:27.513
<v Speaker 8>So I just need to remind me all of the time about this Just go for it, don't care about what people think, don't care about is it going to be good or not.

00:25:27.513 --> 00:25:32.053
<v Speaker 8>Just let it out and just do it Like, do it and do more, and do more, and do more.

00:25:32.053 --> 00:25:50.006
<v Speaker 8>And as I'm still, like new in the art world, I just need to be confident that the work is going to take me somewhere else and the work will lead to more work and and trust the process go ahead, just to be a bit of a devil's advocate, in a way, and going back to what Allison said.

00:25:50.866 --> 00:26:09.336
<v Speaker 5>going back to what Allison said and what you said, I forgot what I was going to say now, well, you would say, make the work yourself and you're saying, you know, it doesn't matter, just do it and stuff.

00:26:09.336 --> 00:26:11.500
<v Speaker 5>So I completely get that.

00:26:11.500 --> 00:26:25.859
<v Speaker 5>But is it completely true that, well, what I'm saying is because, I mean, you know, I make the work for myself, but I also want other people to see it and I want it to communicate something.

00:26:25.859 --> 00:26:30.288
<v Speaker 5>I suppose it's just an interesting question for me there.

00:26:30.288 --> 00:26:45.930
<v Speaker 5>When you're making a piece of art, that has to be motivated, I think for the kind of artist we are anyway, I think for the kind of artist we are anyway, it has to be motivated by the process and one's inner stuff and et cetera, et cetera.

00:26:45.930 --> 00:26:53.573
<v Speaker 5>But it's also probably all of us want our work to go out into the world and we want it to communicate something, don't we?

00:26:53.573 --> 00:26:58.674
<v Speaker 5>So there is also that kind of going on, isn't there for us?

00:26:59.474 --> 00:26:59.894
<v Speaker 2>or what.

00:26:59.894 --> 00:27:01.536
<v Speaker 2>So this is the challenge.

00:27:01.536 --> 00:27:07.979
<v Speaker 2>This is the challenge of being an artist, and you have a lot more years in the game than I do, and I can't wait to hear what you say.

00:27:07.979 --> 00:27:12.280
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait for you all to look up Frances Beattie and check out her work.

00:27:12.280 --> 00:27:26.692
<v Speaker 2>We are so confronted with every possible scenario as artists, because we all are trying we should be all trying to make the work that we want to make for ourselves, but all of a sudden we don't have money to make any more work.

00:27:26.692 --> 00:27:34.730
<v Speaker 2>So we have to take a commission or two, and maybe it's something we really don't want to do and it's taken out of our own flow.

00:27:34.730 --> 00:27:48.480
<v Speaker 2>But we need the check, we need it to pay rent, we need it to buy food, we need needed to get some more paints, or we're working and we're working and the gallery or the dealer really loves that work and they sell three pieces.

00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.328
<v Speaker 2>So now you're confronted with well, shoot, should I make three more in that same vein?

00:27:51.328 --> 00:27:59.786
<v Speaker 2>Now I wouldn't say that's really not making work for you, because you're still working in that area and those ideas that you're working in.

00:27:59.786 --> 00:28:12.192
<v Speaker 2>But we're always going to be confronted with something that may bring us out of ourselves, and I think the challenge is not making the audience the key when we're working all the time, when we put our work up on a wall.

00:28:12.192 --> 00:28:14.464
<v Speaker 2>That's our goal, like this, right In the gallery space.

00:28:14.464 --> 00:28:18.554
<v Speaker 2>We want our work up for people to see, whether it's in the middle of the room or if it's on the walls.

00:28:18.554 --> 00:28:21.631
<v Speaker 2>Like that's our end goal and we want people to see it.

00:28:21.631 --> 00:28:32.651
<v Speaker 2>We want to see how they respond and I think I talked about this in the last episode with Nathan and I is that I've had shows where I put everything up and there's no response and I go well, what the heck?

00:28:32.730 --> 00:28:33.473
<v Speaker 2>What am I doing?

00:28:33.473 --> 00:28:36.008
<v Speaker 2>Why did I just spend all this time doing it?

00:28:36.008 --> 00:28:45.592
<v Speaker 2>Well, like Jerry Salt says in this wonderful book how to be an artist, maybe they just weren't ready yet, maybe they're so used to what you were doing that they're not ready for where you're going.

00:28:45.592 --> 00:28:49.548
<v Speaker 2>We'll bring them along for the ride, don't give up on that.

00:28:49.548 --> 00:28:55.407
<v Speaker 2>And then also there are times where everybody goes crazy and they love the work and the oh my gosh, alison, we want more of these with.

00:28:55.407 --> 00:28:56.368
<v Speaker 2>This was so incredible.

00:28:56.368 --> 00:28:59.531
<v Speaker 2>And then all of a sudden you go I'm done with that, I'm ready to move on.

00:28:59.531 --> 00:29:04.096
<v Speaker 2>Now you're confronted again with another brick in the road where you go.

00:29:04.096 --> 00:29:07.181
<v Speaker 2>Oh, do I keep making or do I move on to the next thing?

00:29:07.181 --> 00:29:15.005
<v Speaker 2>And there's wonderful stories in the art world of artists who completely disappeared for 30 years or 20 years because they went no, I'm not doing that anymore.

00:29:15.005 --> 00:29:16.526
<v Speaker 2>And then they came back later.

00:29:16.526 --> 00:29:19.630
<v Speaker 2>But we're confronted with all kinds of things like that.

00:29:21.071 --> 00:29:25.939
<v Speaker 1>Um, yes, it's about creating that dialogue with people.

00:29:25.939 --> 00:29:42.400
<v Speaker 1>And, let's be honest, like if you're going to put work in a show, I find this if you, let's say, you're in a group show, sometimes you have to I hate this word compromise your own goal of putting my work out there because it has to flow with the show.

00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:43.246
<v Speaker 1>I mean there are.

00:29:43.246 --> 00:29:45.651
<v Speaker 1>There's a part of flexibility that we have to.

00:29:45.651 --> 00:29:49.218
<v Speaker 1>We have to, we have to take that into.

00:29:49.218 --> 00:29:51.150
<v Speaker 1>We can't just be on our mission.

00:29:51.150 --> 00:29:54.096
<v Speaker 1>You have to be flexible with where the work's going to go.

00:29:54.096 --> 00:29:58.471
<v Speaker 1>If you want to show it, I mean, you can decide nope, it's going to be my way.

00:29:58.471 --> 00:30:05.464
<v Speaker 1>But that's part of going inside and deciding am I still creating the dialogue, you know, am I going to get the dialogue from the people?

00:30:05.464 --> 00:30:12.478
<v Speaker 1>So you have to be flexible with where you go, who you're going to show with and be open to changing and adapting.

00:30:12.478 --> 00:30:13.599
<v Speaker 1>Like Moksa was saying.

00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:29.771
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's not just make the work, it's also you've got to keep your audience in mind, because you're in that arena and you have to know your audience that you're taking to work too.

00:30:29.791 --> 00:30:34.721
<v Speaker 1>Installation is tricky because half the time for me, I know what I'm feeling and I hate like hell to talk about that to people.

00:30:34.721 --> 00:30:46.170
<v Speaker 1>I really want them to think and get their brains going, and that's the reason as an artist, and even all artists, you don't want to give it away because that's your secret, that's what got you going.

00:30:46.170 --> 00:30:49.412
<v Speaker 1>At least that's how I feel, and sometimes I will open up.

00:30:49.412 --> 00:30:52.484
<v Speaker 1>But there's that personal part.

00:30:52.484 --> 00:31:00.375
<v Speaker 1>But then there's that getting into the arena or to what the curator is spinning or what the title of the show is.

00:31:00.375 --> 00:31:07.869
<v Speaker 1>So you have to make your work, kind of work with it, and even if you're a solo, it's same same situation.

00:31:07.950 --> 00:31:08.310
<v Speaker 1>So it's.

00:31:08.310 --> 00:31:14.249
<v Speaker 1>It's really requires a lot of flexibility, and I don't think flexibility means watering down your mission.

00:31:14.249 --> 00:31:18.498
<v Speaker 1>You're still being your authentic self, but be if you want to.

00:31:18.498 --> 00:31:20.612
<v Speaker 1>We're doing the work, so people look.

00:31:20.612 --> 00:31:23.413
<v Speaker 1>So you want to create that social contact with people.

00:31:23.413 --> 00:31:30.693
<v Speaker 1>If you lock yourself up in a box and just say it's only going to be my way, well, then you're not going to get the dialogue.

00:31:30.693 --> 00:31:34.911
<v Speaker 1>So you have to decide if you want the dialogue back, so go for it.

00:31:35.546 --> 00:31:41.038
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I was going to say to sort of build on Max's I don't know devil's advocate.

00:31:41.038 --> 00:31:42.691
<v Speaker 7>Is that what you called yourself?

00:31:42.691 --> 00:31:47.588
<v Speaker 7>And maybe it's not about those two ideas opposing Audrey's quote and what you were saying.

00:31:47.588 --> 00:31:53.789
<v Speaker 7>Maybe it's about just being open to other people's interpretation of whatever it is that you're doing.

00:31:53.789 --> 00:32:01.074
<v Speaker 7>So you might have one meaning for your work and one thing that you desperately want to put into the world, but somebody might take it a totally different way.

00:32:01.074 --> 00:32:05.750
<v Speaker 7>So it's more of like be just as open to what other people might think.

00:32:05.750 --> 00:32:06.958
<v Speaker 7>You don't have to take it all in.

00:32:06.958 --> 00:32:08.807
<v Speaker 7>You can definitely put a boundary up around that.

00:32:08.807 --> 00:32:13.386
<v Speaker 7>But I think that's how I would interpret what I think Jerry is saying and that is like a counterpoint.

00:32:13.386 --> 00:32:16.873
<v Speaker 7>But it was a great question because I could see how, on the surface, those two things kind of have friction.

00:32:17.614 --> 00:32:21.766
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I would disagree about fitting into the arena and thinking about your audience in that way.

00:32:21.766 --> 00:32:23.328
<v Speaker 6>I think again.

00:32:23.328 --> 00:32:27.626
<v Speaker 6>I think, as I said before, you have to stay true to yourself and make the work that you want to make.

00:32:27.626 --> 00:32:39.098
<v Speaker 6>It's not going to resonate with everybody, but I think that the people who it does resonate with, like they're gonna, you are going to make that connection with them if you're authentic, if you're true.

00:32:39.098 --> 00:33:01.616
<v Speaker 6>And what I really like about putting you know I have my own thoughts about my work and some of them I reveal, some of them I don't, and I really like putting the work out there for people to see and see what they get from it, because everybody brings their own experiences to the work and it's fascinating for me to see what they think about it.

00:33:01.964 --> 00:33:06.336
<v Speaker 6>You know, like I had the show that I just had in New Mexico.

00:33:06.336 --> 00:33:15.256
<v Speaker 6>I had these large, the large hanging pieces, wall pieces, and this woman walked up to me at the show and she said mammograms.

00:33:15.256 --> 00:33:19.971
<v Speaker 6>And I was like what she's like those are mammograms.

00:33:19.971 --> 00:33:22.780
<v Speaker 6>And I was like what she's like those are mammograms.

00:33:22.780 --> 00:33:27.731
<v Speaker 6>She's like I was a mammogram tech for decades and this is what they look like.

00:33:27.731 --> 00:33:35.875
<v Speaker 6>And I was like, wow, that's fascinating, you know, but it really resonated with her, you know, and it really made her feel something.

00:33:35.875 --> 00:33:41.366
<v Speaker 6>So I'm totally open to other people's interpretations and I love, you know, I love that.

00:33:41.366 --> 00:33:43.551
<v Speaker 6>So I wouldn't, you know, I'm not going to change.

00:33:43.551 --> 00:33:53.108
<v Speaker 6>I'm not going to change anything about the way I make the work, you know, I'm not like, I just I don't think about the audience, so it's just me.

00:33:55.652 --> 00:34:05.634
<v Speaker 4>I love what you've been what's been saying and circulating around the last few points of conversation, frances, what you said, oh goodness, I can't remember.

00:34:05.634 --> 00:34:24.101
<v Speaker 4>Something sparked in my mind the topic of ego, unhealthy ego and healthy ego for an artist to have, and I want to open up like what's the balance, maybe a dark and a light side, to artists and the ego of the artist?

00:34:24.101 --> 00:34:25.612
<v Speaker 4>I want to hear thoughts about it.

00:34:25.724 --> 00:34:29.717
<v Speaker 2>Let me jump into something real quick, because we had a devil's advocate and a disagreement.

00:34:29.717 --> 00:34:32.173
<v Speaker 2>I'm the most excited person in the world right now.

00:34:32.173 --> 00:34:47.994
<v Speaker 2>There is no good art critique without a disagreement and somebody not liking the work Because too many art critiques or everybody likes it and they don't want to hurt anybody's feeling, and then you never get true discourse and you never learn what you really need to work on on your work.

00:34:47.994 --> 00:34:52.235
<v Speaker 2>So for me and I know Nathan's going to really love this that, oh my gosh, we had a disagreement.

00:34:52.235 --> 00:34:54.268
<v Speaker 2>This is amazing because that's art.

00:34:54.568 --> 00:34:57.795
<v Speaker 2>We all are learning something in our on our own road here.

00:34:57.795 --> 00:35:03.916
<v Speaker 2>All of us, right, we're each learning different bits and there is a bit of game in the art world.

00:35:03.916 --> 00:35:06.753
<v Speaker 2>There is a 100%, not a bit.

00:35:06.753 --> 00:35:09.333
<v Speaker 2>There's quite a bit of gaming in the art world.

00:35:09.333 --> 00:35:27.010
<v Speaker 2>There are different roads, different avenues, different things, different types of shows and obviously because of COVID, everything changed and started over again and a whole new road opened up different pathways for artists that didn't exist before and things we're not going to jump into that but I'm just excited about.

00:35:27.010 --> 00:35:29.326
<v Speaker 2>We just had a disagreement and a devil's advocate.

00:35:29.326 --> 00:35:29.947
<v Speaker 2>This is beautiful.

00:35:30.349 --> 00:35:33.157
<v Speaker 1>But I don't think it's a disagreement, because what I was trying to.

00:35:34.644 --> 00:35:35.268
<v Speaker 2>No, don't ruin it.

00:35:35.288 --> 00:35:39.653
<v Speaker 1>Frances no no, and it's not like I'm trying to like, it's an open feeling.

00:35:39.653 --> 00:35:40.898
<v Speaker 1>No, but I don't.

00:35:40.898 --> 00:35:49.898
<v Speaker 1>I think I came across saying that you have to bend to everybody, but what I'm saying is I feel your work isn't compatible with what's there.

00:35:49.898 --> 00:35:53.456
<v Speaker 1>But if you want to show your work, sometimes you just put it there.

00:35:53.456 --> 00:35:57.728
<v Speaker 1>I'm talking about a group show that situation and you're talking about ego then.

00:35:57.728 --> 00:36:01.869
<v Speaker 1>So how do you, where does your ego fit when you're in a group situation?

00:36:01.869 --> 00:36:03.974
<v Speaker 1>As opposed to solo, they're very different.

00:36:04.376 --> 00:36:09.375
<v Speaker 1>If you're in a show just with two people that's kind of what I was getting at know your arena.

00:36:09.375 --> 00:36:11.545
<v Speaker 1>Is it a solo, is it a group?

00:36:11.545 --> 00:36:20.346
<v Speaker 1>Because you're going to be, your work can still be the same, you can still be true to yourself, but I certainly don't create anything hoping that people will like it.

00:36:20.346 --> 00:36:22.471
<v Speaker 1>That's like the last thing in my mind.

00:36:22.471 --> 00:36:25.056
<v Speaker 1>If they're not, it's what if I like it?

00:36:25.056 --> 00:36:28.840
<v Speaker 1>So that's where I'm saying my ego, that's I like it and that's all that matters.

00:36:29.081 --> 00:36:32.213
<v Speaker 1>And if somebody says, well, I think it looks awful, you go.

00:36:32.213 --> 00:36:32.474
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

00:36:32.474 --> 00:36:36.686
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for your opinion and you really want, I want people to give me the honest opinion.

00:36:36.686 --> 00:36:39.492
<v Speaker 1>I have one friend constantly comes up to me and says I don't get it.

00:36:39.492 --> 00:36:44.853
<v Speaker 1>That's cool, I appreciate she's being honest.

00:36:44.853 --> 00:36:49.809
<v Speaker 1>That's all I meant about the flexible thing, not like make stuff to fit.

00:36:49.809 --> 00:37:04.413
<v Speaker 1>It's more about know where you're going to fit so that you can still stay true to who you are, don't lose your identity in that process of trying to fit in to a group show, and that's a super delicate area, tricky, all the above.

00:37:04.413 --> 00:37:08.750
<v Speaker 1>I don't think I really answered it, but gosh, so many things in there.

00:37:09.552 --> 00:37:13.021
<v Speaker 5>I, I, um yeah, I mean what allison said completely.

00:37:13.021 --> 00:37:17.010
<v Speaker 5>It's just absolutely fascinating for me when a piece of art goes out.

00:37:17.010 --> 00:37:23.773
<v Speaker 5>You know, in an exhibition or something, what people see or how they respond, and you know I learn new stuff about my work.

00:37:23.773 --> 00:37:32.735
<v Speaker 5>You know, particularly stuff I've been doing lately, which is more, you know, trying to explore between representational and non-representational.

00:37:32.735 --> 00:37:37.588
<v Speaker 5>So it's not clear, you know, and people suddenly tell me oh, that's such and such.

00:37:37.588 --> 00:37:43.014
<v Speaker 5>You know I see this or you know this makes me feel that and I'm like, oh, wow, gosh, that's like.

00:37:44.125 --> 00:38:07.030
<v Speaker 5>But I think the thing about the quote you know of you make work for yourself and it ties in maybe to your thing, jen, about ego Is I think there's something that I always slightly feel, slightly uneasy with that sort of thing, because I think, you know, I think the artistic process is actually about going beyond oneself and paradoxically, it's.

00:38:07.030 --> 00:38:16.958
<v Speaker 5>You know you have to do that, you have to make it for yourself, really for yourself, in order to touch something that kind of goes beyond yourself and something else comes through.

00:38:16.958 --> 00:38:30.349
<v Speaker 5>And you know the thing about ego, healthy ego and unhealthy ego, or you know light and dark and stuff is, you've got to kind of embrace both of those light and dark, haven't you?

00:38:30.349 --> 00:38:41.485
<v Speaker 5>But I think and it's an ideal in a way, and you know, I touch upon it very occasionally but that sense of actually, you know, something else is going on.

00:38:41.485 --> 00:38:46.923
<v Speaker 5>Something else is going on and it's not about me, I suppose that's what I'm.

00:38:47.184 --> 00:38:58.083
<v Speaker 1>I'm kind of, you know yeah, where you actually lose yourself in your work, and that's kind of what you're talking about go beyond yourself, and that's what we're, I think.

00:38:58.083 --> 00:39:07.789
<v Speaker 1>I strive to lose myself and get me out of the picture and let that energy and that yearning thing be the product.

00:39:08.150 --> 00:39:13.208
<v Speaker 3>So again, I agree with you totally getting getting out of getting out of our own way.

00:39:13.708 --> 00:39:19.530
<v Speaker 1>You know kind of getting out of your own way and what you decide, and that's so intangible and fleeting.

00:39:19.530 --> 00:39:23.503
<v Speaker 1>But that's for me the struggle and the passion.

00:39:24.465 --> 00:39:32.164
<v Speaker 6>So I was going to throw my quote in at this point because I think it in a way kind of fits with what we're doing right now.

00:39:32.164 --> 00:39:38.365
<v Speaker 6>So it's by Eva Hess or Hessa and it's straightforward, but I think you can look at it in a lot of different ways.

00:39:38.365 --> 00:39:43.025
<v Speaker 6>So she says artists don't think archivally Some do.

00:39:43.025 --> 00:39:44.467
<v Speaker 6>I don't believe that's completely true.

00:39:44.467 --> 00:39:45.869
<v Speaker 6>She did not.

00:39:45.869 --> 00:39:47.190
<v Speaker 6>I don't believe that's completely true.

00:39:47.190 --> 00:39:47.891
<v Speaker 6>She did not.

00:39:47.891 --> 00:39:49.554
<v Speaker 6>I don't either.

00:39:49.554 --> 00:39:56.603
<v Speaker 6>That's why it resonates with me and a lot of her work doesn't exist anymore and because of that it just sort of, you know, became brittle and fell apart.

00:39:56.603 --> 00:39:59.532
<v Speaker 6>And but I think you can look at it in a lot of different ways.

00:39:59.780 --> 00:40:04.920
<v Speaker 6>As I said, you can think of it kind of philosophically about impermanence and permanent work.

00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.929
<v Speaker 6>And how long does work should work last?

00:40:07.929 --> 00:40:09.181
<v Speaker 6>How long do we want it to last?

00:40:09.181 --> 00:40:10.465
<v Speaker 6>Do you need to make, you know?

00:40:10.465 --> 00:40:18.961
<v Speaker 6>Are we like carving stone and marble and it's going to last thousands of years, or are we, you know, making something like an installation, something that's fleeting?

00:40:18.961 --> 00:40:21.768
<v Speaker 6>It's just going to be captured by a photograph, that sort of thing?

00:40:22.911 --> 00:40:31.110
<v Speaker 6>And I think for Eva Hess also, you know, and for me, the materials that we chose, or that I choose really come into play?

00:40:31.110 --> 00:40:32.150
<v Speaker 6>Because I do.

00:40:32.150 --> 00:40:35.775
<v Speaker 6>You know, the concept of impermanence is important to me.

00:40:35.775 --> 00:40:40.119
<v Speaker 6>And then I guess the third thing would be why are we making the art right?

00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:50.155
<v Speaker 6>So we've been talking a lot about the end product, but you can also think of your art making, just the process of making the art, you know, being like process and materials driven.

00:40:50.155 --> 00:40:56.230
<v Speaker 6>That can be what the art is about for you, and then you just have this end product at the end.

00:40:56.230 --> 00:41:01.606
<v Speaker 6>Anyway, I kind of forgot about how I was tying that in, but maybe you guys can figure it out.

00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:02.822
<v Speaker 2>No, I think that's great.

00:41:02.822 --> 00:41:10.755
<v Speaker 2>I mean yeah, I mean I would stand alongside her because I've been yelled at by multiple curators in my art career for not being archival.

00:41:10.755 --> 00:41:14.451
<v Speaker 2>Right, that's the curator that yells at you when you're not archival.

00:41:14.451 --> 00:41:19.032
<v Speaker 2>The artists don't care, it's the curators that go what did you use here?

00:41:19.032 --> 00:41:21.567
<v Speaker 2>Well, how did you?

00:41:21.567 --> 00:41:22.650
<v Speaker 2>How is this going to be archival?

00:41:22.650 --> 00:41:24.722
<v Speaker 2>And you go well, it's really not.

00:41:24.722 --> 00:41:30.335
<v Speaker 2>It might be, I don't know, we'll see how good this canvas is compared to canvas from 1930.

00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:34.327
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, you look at Rothko.

00:41:34.327 --> 00:41:35.735
<v Speaker 2>His paintings are eating themselves.

00:41:35.735 --> 00:41:46.802
<v Speaker 2>All of his paintings are disappearing from the back because he used so much turpentine with oil and just pounded it in violently into the canvas to get everything so smooth, you know, on the front, but it's eating itself.

00:41:46.802 --> 00:41:50.987
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think Anselm Kiefer says my work is supposed to fall apart.

00:41:50.987 --> 00:41:52.893
<v Speaker 2>It is not supposed to last.

00:41:52.893 --> 00:42:05.666
<v Speaker 2>I watched an installation of an Anselm Kiefer painting that was probably I don't know 40 feet high by 40 feet wide or 50 feet massive, weighed, thousand plus.

00:42:05.666 --> 00:42:22.483
<v Speaker 2>And as the, as the curatorial team is hanging this piece, pieces are falling off and I'm watching them run around and try and get it back to where you know that piece was when it came, but keifer would say no, no, throw it in the trash if it fell off hanging it.

00:42:22.483 --> 00:42:24.166
<v Speaker 2>It was supposed to fall off at some point.

00:42:24.166 --> 00:42:31.929
<v Speaker 2>I do know artists that think very archival, but I know a lot of artists who are making the work first and then we'll worry about everything else later.

00:42:33.101 --> 00:42:35.907
<v Speaker 4>What I find so beautiful within the process.

00:42:35.907 --> 00:42:43.391
<v Speaker 4>There's so much metaphor when you just will take time to slow down and see like, oh, is the work is supposed to do that?

00:42:43.391 --> 00:42:51.581
<v Speaker 4>What does that say about maybe some bigger concepts and larger, larger things we learned in life?

00:42:51.581 --> 00:42:59.949
<v Speaker 4>I find in art like there's, it parallels so many different little avenues in life and it's it's just like I find in my own work.

00:42:59.949 --> 00:43:06.224
<v Speaker 4>There's, there's so many different little nuances and lessons that I I don't even see until later down road.

00:43:06.224 --> 00:43:25.568
<v Speaker 4>But how could I see that if I'm so focused on it being like archival, like in the moment, or like you know, trying to attach the meaning right then, and there like got to let the process breathe and like take its own life, and then you take a step back and you're like, oh, that's that, and then I think it holds like true meaning in essence there.

00:43:25.588 --> 00:43:44.333
<v Speaker 7>But I't that's just a being able to see the metaphor, like standing back and seeing that, uh, that like the softness and then in that meaning, we were talking about the archival bit the other day, because I work with nature and nature is constantly decaying, you know, once it sort of falls off of its main uh component.

00:43:44.333 --> 00:43:50.786
<v Speaker 7>And it was one of the questions I got asked the most when I started sharing my work and I just I'd never thought about archiving my work.

00:43:50.786 --> 00:43:59.768
<v Speaker 7>So I started to incorporate little things, but then it started to stop me from making work because I was realizing, well, I don't know how I will preserve this for hundreds of years, so I guess I can't use it.

00:43:59.768 --> 00:44:03.503
<v Speaker 7>And then I got really stuck and then finally I was like what am I doing?

00:44:03.503 --> 00:44:05.827
<v Speaker 7>Why am I trying to foresee the future?

00:44:05.827 --> 00:44:06.847
<v Speaker 7>I should just be making the work.

00:44:06.867 --> 00:44:10.715
<v Speaker 7>And if something falls off to what Kiefer said, fine, it falls off, and that's just a part of the process.

00:44:10.715 --> 00:44:21.547
<v Speaker 7>And it made me think of Andy Goldsworthy, who his whole purpose is to build a nature installation and let it be, let it fall apart.

00:44:21.547 --> 00:44:23.753
<v Speaker 7>That's a part of the beauty is watching it do that.

00:44:23.753 --> 00:44:29.150
<v Speaker 7>So when I found him I think you might have introduced him to me as well it was like oh, there it is.

00:44:29.150 --> 00:44:30.512
<v Speaker 7>That's 100% what I want to be doing.

00:44:32.201 --> 00:44:37.920
<v Speaker 2>There's a beautiful Andy Goldsworthy documentary that you can find, I think, pretty much anywhere.

00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:42.009
<v Speaker 2>Currently there's two of them, so definitely look up Andy Goldsworthy.

00:44:42.009 --> 00:44:47.150
<v Speaker 2>Even if you just watch the clips and the trailers, it will lead you to say I've got to watch these docs.

00:44:48.559 --> 00:44:55.166
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I was just going to add to to what you're saying, jacqueline, that it's almost like the sculpt, like the work that we're making it's, it's like living.

00:44:55.166 --> 00:44:57.641
<v Speaker 6>You know it's changing, it's living.

00:44:57.641 --> 00:44:59.483
<v Speaker 6>You know some sculptures that I've made.

00:44:59.483 --> 00:45:10.173
<v Speaker 6>Maybe I haven't used enough glue on them or you know something to hold them together and they're starting to like droop a little bit and you know, but it's, but it's okay, you know it's like.

00:45:10.173 --> 00:45:15.088
<v Speaker 6>It's like, you know being human in a way all right.

00:45:15.108 --> 00:45:21.969
<v Speaker 3>So the whole idea, ty, was we were just going to kind of talk about and do a little little breakdown, key takeaways from some of the amazing things that were shared.

00:45:21.969 --> 00:45:32.389
<v Speaker 3>I will tell you that, um, listening to everybody share their insights and their quotes didn't help me at all in terms of not wishing I could be there with you all, but it was super, super cool.

00:45:32.389 --> 00:45:45.552
<v Speaker 3>So, broadly, a couple of key takeaways One is you guys have to do at least one more round of this because that was super, super cool and I just love how vulnerable and authentic that everybody was.

00:45:45.552 --> 00:45:49.061
<v Speaker 3>No surprise knowing, directly or indirectly, everybody who's there.

00:45:49.581 --> 00:45:54.552
<v Speaker 2>Lucky for you, we went really long, and so we're breaking it into two parts.

00:45:54.552 --> 00:45:56.985
<v Speaker 2>I love it, I love it.

00:45:57.688 --> 00:45:58.550
<v Speaker 3>So let's just.

00:45:58.550 --> 00:45:59.655
<v Speaker 3>I just kind of want to go through these.

00:45:59.655 --> 00:46:09.228
<v Speaker 3>I took some couple pages worth of notes while I was listening and may not get to every single thing that was covered, because then it would take just as long to talk about it as it did to record it initially.

00:46:09.228 --> 00:46:15.668
<v Speaker 3>But in that first quote by Louise Bourgeois that Jacqueline shared super, super cool.

00:46:15.668 --> 00:46:26.425
<v Speaker 3>So I don't know that we need to reread these because they were already discussed, but just that whole idea of art being a way of reconciling oneself is super, super powerful.

00:46:26.425 --> 00:46:27.648
<v Speaker 3>It's something that we've talked about.

00:46:27.648 --> 00:46:29.429
<v Speaker 3>That's a quote that I had not heard before.

00:46:29.429 --> 00:46:33.501
<v Speaker 3>So really all of these could be their own episode as well for the future.

00:46:33.501 --> 00:46:38.512
<v Speaker 3>So we'll make sure and tag these because there's so much that could be discussed.

00:46:38.512 --> 00:46:40.625
<v Speaker 3>So kind of funny.

00:46:41.306 --> 00:46:45.840
<v Speaker 3>I've seen her work before in museums, but I had the most magical experience.

00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:46.943
<v Speaker 3>It was just last summer.

00:46:46.943 --> 00:46:55.047
<v Speaker 3>I was in either St Louis or Kansas city for for um, my daughter's tournament down there, just go.

00:46:55.047 --> 00:47:00.045
<v Speaker 3>I think it was Kansas city going for a long run and literally just going for just getting lost and trying to log some miles.

00:47:00.045 --> 00:47:06.887
<v Speaker 3>And I came across I'll have to look it up but a piece of hers um outside on the lawn of one of the museums down there.

00:47:06.887 --> 00:47:07.409
<v Speaker 3>It was just like-.

00:47:07.429 --> 00:47:08.291
<v Speaker 2>That would be amazing.

00:47:09.485 --> 00:47:10.932
<v Speaker 3>Dude, stop me in my tracks.

00:47:10.932 --> 00:47:17.108
<v Speaker 3>Yes, and I did not get a good pace for that mile because I just hit pause and just had to sit there for a while.

00:47:17.108 --> 00:47:49.536
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, just that quote is so powerful, I think, for me, just the way and I've talked about this already in previous episodes but the way that art has given me a window into my own soul that I didn't have before, and I really like what Muxa shared about it being kind of revealing what's most meaningful to me, you know, and how there are probably other ways that we could come to those understandings and realizations, but for us, as artists, that is the most direct path.

00:47:49.536 --> 00:47:56.313
<v Speaker 3>I think to have that recognition of oneself is through the act of making.

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:15.952
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, and I think the cool thing about this panel of artists not only being friends of ours, but just the age difference from mid-20s to young 70s, right, and you have this broad spectrum of experience, studio time, places, where we live.

00:48:15.952 --> 00:48:16.880
<v Speaker 2>We're from all over the world.

00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:27.702
<v Speaker 2>Every one of us lives in a different place, and so just that bringing together of all those ideas from different ages, different generations, different experiences was just incredible.

00:48:27.702 --> 00:48:39.686
<v Speaker 2>To discuss those things amongst each other, but also every night here at the residency, being able to sit and have dinner together and talk about those things, just kind of enhances everything that we did in this episode Totally.

00:48:39.907 --> 00:48:40.588
<v Speaker 3>So, so cool.

00:48:40.588 --> 00:48:45.831
<v Speaker 3>I love too when Francis said she talked about the bingo card, the aha moment right Like.

00:48:46.112 --> 00:48:47.356
<v Speaker 3>Oh, there, it is Right.

00:48:47.356 --> 00:49:01.155
<v Speaker 3>So that whole recognizing, that whole revealing process, which is, I think, probably what we're all sort of hooked on right, like that's kind of something that we're we're all chasing in one way or another when we're in the act of creating that moment of like, oh there it is.

00:49:01.155 --> 00:49:06.849
<v Speaker 3>And by extension to the, to the quote there, there I am, there there's, there's a piece of meat, you know, baked.

00:49:06.849 --> 00:49:10.255
<v Speaker 3>Quote, there I am, there's a piece of me baked into that, which is phenomenal.

00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:23.530
<v Speaker 3>The next quote that was shared and I'm going to skip some because, again, I was taking notes and pausing but I didn't catch all of them, but I love how Gianna talked about the quote from her professor about embrace your constraints, and I really think that.

00:49:23.530 --> 00:49:27.623
<v Speaker 3>So I've had a chance to hang out with Gianna a couple of times.

00:49:27.623 --> 00:49:34.688
<v Speaker 3>When she was living in Minnesota here she did a studio visit and we got a chance to meet the first time and then she had a two person show last summer.

00:49:34.688 --> 00:49:37.400
<v Speaker 3>So I got a chance to see a bunch of her work in person.

00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:41.344
<v Speaker 3>You know as well which is which is really cool she's she's the youngest one there, right?

00:49:41.945 --> 00:49:43.588
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yep, and she's now in New York.

00:49:43.588 --> 00:49:46.070
<v Speaker 2>So everybody in New York is listening.

00:49:46.070 --> 00:49:47.110
<v Speaker 2>Find Gianna and hang out.

00:49:47.632 --> 00:49:54.608
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but she, she definitely has more, you know, wisdom, and maturity, I would say, than the average yeah absolutely.

00:49:54.929 --> 00:50:09.831
<v Speaker 3>Whatever, however old she is, but I I love how she kind of tagged onto that quote too, Like just this whole idea of I have everything I need, and how easy it is to fall in the trap as artists of oh when, if I had this.

00:50:09.831 --> 00:50:39.806
<v Speaker 3>When I get to this point and that's not just true of art, I mean, I think that's true of a lot of different things in life where it's just so easy to believe the lie of executing, following doing the next right thing is conditional or situational, based on certain conditions you know being being in place, and I think that's one of the beautiful things about art is that we just need to be in the act of making and we can.

00:50:39.806 --> 00:50:42.992
<v Speaker 3>We can make something right, Like you and I both been.

00:50:42.992 --> 00:50:43.981
<v Speaker 3>Where were we?

00:50:43.981 --> 00:50:52.713
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, Just down on spring breakdown of down in Florida, just, you know, arranging sand in a certain way and do it, making my own little version of art that day that I didn't even take a picture of.

00:50:52.940 --> 00:50:53.400
<v Speaker 3>You know what I mean.

00:50:53.400 --> 00:51:04.532
<v Speaker 3>But it's just moving material around, making shapes, like that's all, like I have everything I need, and operating from that place is just a beautiful way to approach things.

00:51:04.532 --> 00:51:13.085
<v Speaker 3>Embrace your constraints, I mean, I think that's, that's something else that I love about art and I think that that's so interesting to just to think about in the the process of making.

00:51:13.085 --> 00:51:16.860
<v Speaker 3>It is just the idea of, you know, getting to make rules for ourselves.

00:51:16.860 --> 00:51:22.007
<v Speaker 3>You know I'm a big fan of rules, as long as I get to make them.

00:51:22.528 --> 00:51:28.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, as long as you're making your own rules, yeah, and you're the sole author of said rules.

00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:31.548
<v Speaker 3>You could just rewrite them whenever you're so inclined.

00:51:31.548 --> 00:51:39.773
<v Speaker 3>But I think that that's just a really interesting aspect of making is just thinking about all right for this piece, what are my constraints?

00:51:39.773 --> 00:51:46.101
<v Speaker 3>Because that's what's the beautiful thing about a blank canvas or a blank working surface it's that it could be anything.

00:51:46.101 --> 00:51:52.780
<v Speaker 3>What's the scary thing and the intimidating thing that I think can sometimes keep us from just getting started is it could be anything.

00:51:52.780 --> 00:51:54.405
<v Speaker 3>And where do I start right?

00:51:54.405 --> 00:51:55.588
<v Speaker 3>So, yeah, I would.

00:51:55.588 --> 00:52:02.231
<v Speaker 3>I would go so far as just to kind of add to not just embracing the existing constraints but, to you know, have self imposed.

00:52:02.231 --> 00:52:03.119
<v Speaker 3>You know constraints.

00:52:03.119 --> 00:52:04.701
<v Speaker 3>I'm just going to use this particular.

00:52:04.701 --> 00:52:09.585
<v Speaker 3>You know color palette, material, you know process, you know mark make, whatever it is.

00:52:09.585 --> 00:52:11.545
<v Speaker 3>That was really interesting to me on that.

00:52:12.146 --> 00:52:18.931
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's me right now at the residency because I was prepping for a solo show that was going on while I'm gone and doing a bunch of other stuff.

00:52:18.931 --> 00:52:36.126
<v Speaker 2>And when I placed my orders for paint to be delivered from Montreal to Newfoundland, I was going to bring a bunch of paint with me from home and when I was packing my bags I left all the paint at home to not be overweight and have to pay extra.

00:52:36.126 --> 00:52:45.047
<v Speaker 2>And I got here and got my box of paint and I had six things of paint two blacks, one white, a yellow, a red and a blue and a purple.

00:52:45.047 --> 00:52:45.728
<v Speaker 2>That's it.

00:52:45.728 --> 00:52:47.449
<v Speaker 2>That's it.

00:52:47.449 --> 00:52:52.902
<v Speaker 2>And I went, I literally opened the box and just sunk Like are you kidding me?

00:52:52.902 --> 00:52:54.525
<v Speaker 2>So embrace your constraints.

00:52:54.525 --> 00:52:56.951
<v Speaker 2>I 100% am embracing.

00:52:58.373 --> 00:53:07.896
<v Speaker 2>I could go get more art materials in St John's, a 20 minute drive down the road, but I've decided I will make with what I have and have that constraint be broken by my thinking.

00:53:07.896 --> 00:53:14.362
<v Speaker 2>And so I've scrapped a few other little half cans of spray paint from the tool shed and things like that around the residence.

00:53:14.362 --> 00:53:23.079
<v Speaker 2>But I decided, and then, when Gianna shared that quote while we were talking it, just again another artist giving me confidence in what I'm doing.

00:53:23.500 --> 00:53:24.501
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I love that.

00:53:24.501 --> 00:53:27.382
<v Speaker 3>That's a great story.

00:53:27.382 --> 00:53:34.827
<v Speaker 3>Third quote that was shared Frances, who I probably know the least or I've had least interaction with either you know.

00:53:34.827 --> 00:53:42.731
<v Speaker 3>So for just for backstory, for some folks, whatever about half the people there were in my particular mentorship class with you and others.

00:53:42.731 --> 00:53:46.494
<v Speaker 3>I've interacted with a lot on Instagram, that kind of thing as well, but I love her quote.

00:53:46.494 --> 00:53:50.416
<v Speaker 3>Ursula von Reisgaard, one of my absolute creative heroes as well.

00:53:50.896 --> 00:53:54.521
<v Speaker 3>I mean the fact that she has retained all 10 of her fingers.

00:53:54.521 --> 00:53:57.228
<v Speaker 3>I mean people say that I work fast and loose.

00:53:57.228 --> 00:54:02.867
<v Speaker 3>If you've ever used a circular saw just for its intended purpose, it's incredible.

00:54:02.867 --> 00:54:05.956
<v Speaker 3>It is really, really amazing.

00:54:05.956 --> 00:54:09.027
<v Speaker 3>And what she's able to do with it is just astounding.

00:54:09.027 --> 00:54:10.485
<v Speaker 3>But I love that quote.

00:54:10.485 --> 00:54:14.043
<v Speaker 3>This could again be a whole other episode as well, but nothing has to be.

00:54:14.043 --> 00:54:16.009
<v Speaker 3>There's more to it, but nothing has to be logical.

00:54:16.009 --> 00:54:17.072
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't have to make sense.

00:54:17.820 --> 00:54:19.347
<v Speaker 2>I think she has to be an episode.

00:54:19.347 --> 00:54:22.248
<v Speaker 2>I think she's a must down the road Agreed.

00:54:22.429 --> 00:54:24.242
<v Speaker 3>Yep, let's make a note of that, I think.

00:54:24.242 --> 00:54:42.204
<v Speaker 3>But just that, that whole idea of and then you know francis, who's got, let's just say, the most experience there, yeah, I'm guessing, okay, yeah, I, it was really encouraging for me and I just want to like highlight I don't have anything to add other than just to highlight and just make sure that people caught it but somebody who's been in the game as long as she has and who makes incredible, check everybody out, guys.

00:54:42.204 --> 00:55:01.614
<v Speaker 3>But I just love, I love francis's work, but that whole how she receives and responds to the question of what were you going for, right, or having to like just the pressure that we sometimes feel to come up with some, you know, rational, logical explanation of like what the intent was going into the piece.

00:55:01.614 --> 00:55:09.833
<v Speaker 3>So it was encouraging for me to hear somebody of her experience and ability say, like it's for you to determine for yourself.

00:55:10.134 --> 00:55:24.081
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, and it doesn't have to be logical, it doesn't have to make sense, and just how many situations in the process of being an artist that come up that really, I think, fall in line, you know, with that.

00:55:24.081 --> 00:55:27.005
<v Speaker 3>It's the pull that I'm feeling, you know, right now.

00:55:27.005 --> 00:55:39.402
<v Speaker 3>That's why it's so cool to see, you know, following all you guys, you know seeing the walks down by the ocean and just like being inspired by the place where you are, the people that you're there, with the things that you have access to.

00:55:39.402 --> 00:55:41.909
<v Speaker 3>Like it doesn't have to, you know, make sense.

00:55:41.909 --> 00:55:45.123
<v Speaker 3>Wherever the work you know takes you, it's because you know it's.

00:55:45.123 --> 00:55:49.802
<v Speaker 3>It's just that, that pull, that that yearning, and that's what's beautiful about art, in my opinion.

00:55:49.802 --> 00:55:53.652
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, ty, so many cool things that were shared throughout y'all's conversation.

00:55:53.652 --> 00:55:56.266
<v Speaker 3>I don't need to touch on all of them.

00:55:56.266 --> 00:56:00.003
<v Speaker 3>I really enjoyed what Audrey said about just having the courage to be seen.

00:56:00.003 --> 00:56:03.831
<v Speaker 3>That's just really impacted me on a personal level.

00:56:03.871 --> 00:56:31.905
<v Speaker 3>I think that it's how important it is to and I think you tagged this on in the conversation surround yourself with other artists who support you who have that, that community, that, that coven, you know, as Jerry puts it, but just the support and the yeah, just the encouragement that's so, so useful when we are, you know, opening up a piece of our, of our, of our heart and saying, here, I made this, what do you think it's?

00:56:31.905 --> 00:56:33.028
<v Speaker 3>It's, it's super big.

00:56:33.028 --> 00:56:37.567
<v Speaker 3>I like how Gianna added to just the whole idea of how you do one thing is how you do everything.

00:56:37.567 --> 00:56:45.213
<v Speaker 3>Um, I've talked about this too, just in relation to to my sort of you know backstory and how I made my way to art, you know, in my in in middle age.

00:56:45.213 --> 00:56:51.949
<v Speaker 3>But just the whole idea of how she she was referencing her experience as an, as an athlete, and the discipline required.

00:56:51.949 --> 00:57:03.181
<v Speaker 3>But I think that's worth just kind of putting a pin in another, another use case, another example of somebody who leveraged and took experience from a completely different space and has applied it, you know, to art.

00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:17.012
<v Speaker 3>And I think that you know, if you're listening to us and you're not in a place where you're able to make art full time or you're even able to make art for more than a few hours a week, just knowing that, all of the other things that we spend time doing in life.

00:57:17.012 --> 00:57:30.699
<v Speaker 3>Whatever you're putting attention towards, that becomes a part of us and it deepens the well of things we have to pull from when we are then creating, the work has more depth because of the life that we're living.

00:57:30.699 --> 00:57:39.128
<v Speaker 3>And from when we are then creating, the work has more depth because of the life that we're living and the experience that we're having outside of just the skill required to and the technical aspects of making the work.

00:57:39.128 --> 00:57:41.307
<v Speaker 3>I thought that was really cool.

00:57:41.307 --> 00:57:50.222
<v Speaker 3>So, ty, those are our takeaways, or just a little commentary on part one, super excited to share part two, which will be the very next episode.

00:57:50.222 --> 00:57:52.288
<v Speaker 3>So everybody stay tuned for that.

00:57:52.288 --> 00:57:56.865
<v Speaker 3>On our next episode of just make art we'll see in a couple weeks.

00:57:58.771 --> 00:58:10.740
<v Speaker 2>We're doing a what's called happy hours, because it lasts longer than an hour where we meet at some obviously where we meet at some, obviously when we meet somebody else.