Beyond the Photograph: Stories, Styles and Perseverance, with Jord Hammond, E014 (part 2)

Welcome to part two of my conversation with George Hammond on the Mood podcast, as we explore the intricate journey of his rise as a world-renowned photographer.
In the final parts of our chat, we discuss the exhilarating yet challenging journey of pursuing photography professionally, the benefits of community with other artists, the value of learning through trial and error and much, much more.
Enjoy.
I wanted to rewind a little bit.
There's probably no specific answer to this, but I like hearing people's thoughts on it.
Why photography?
And I think the answer would probably be different when you think about why you started it compared to why now?
Right, so could you pinpoint any specific reason why you love photography, and that's kind of the medium that you chose to do.
I.
It sounds quite cliche when I say it's the people I meet along the way, doesn't it?
No, that's great, it's true.
Not many people say that.
Yeah, but it is for me, I mean, particularly in the way that I shoot, it's quite impromptu.
I just honestly drive around, get lost and just see who I meet, what I find along the way, and it's always the people.
Like you know, if I think about particular like experiences I've had with photography, the ones that I remember most fondly always involve, like people I've met in the particular place.
So, yeah, I'd say it's the people when it's first and foremost the reason why I really love what I do, but also, I guess it's just a way to express whatever weird is going on in my head.
It's just an outlet for that.
Yeah, I love exploring, love getting lost mostly by myself, because then you don't have to deal with other people's bullshit, but you like the people along the way, because it's interesting, like your.
I'm talking about other artists.
No, they're actually a lot of them are really cool, as you'll know.
But no, you're just a freedom to do your own thing.
Yeah, I love that.
I love the kind of chaos of that process.
There's no real structure to it.
It's just kind of messy.
Just do whatever you want you meet someone random oh you want to come in my house?
Yeah, sure, why the fuck not, let's do it.
Yeah, it's always the people along the way there.
Yeah, it's so cool.
And I go back to villages now and, honestly, in the middle of nowhere you wouldn't be able to find them, just you know, even if you tried.
But I can go back there and I do go back to the same places fairly often because you know you're never going to capture everything you want in one morning and if people say that they're lies, yeah, yeah.
There's always different things happening, especially here different ceremonies, different weather, different maybe different people coming through, the same people doing maybe slightly different things.
Also you're different, like any day, you're different right.
My approach to that subject may have changed over time as.
I've been influenced by other artists and another I've been exposed to.
So yeah, the people.
The people yeah, how about you.
Same with us.
That makes sense.
Yeah, with the people, but we've had difficulties.
I mean, there are some projects I do and just go.
Yeah, I didn't really want to come here again, but most of them the enjoyment comes from, yeah, you know, getting a finished image.
Both for me and for the person that's in that image or people Like, there's an immense satisfaction from that because for me and my style and what we want to shoot, a lot goes into it.
But generally speaking, we look back on.
We just did an amazing project in Salaya, south Saloese, and it was all about the people.
It was all about the people we met in this one tiny little village that were the friendliest, most welcoming, didn't even think about money kind of people.
Yeah, we gave them some stuff and hopefully we've given them some images and hopefully we've given them a story to tell about us, but we're going back in September and taking them on a boat and going out to even more remote stuff.
Actually, I wanted to talk to you about that.
That's cool.
I think I actually have a few.
Now I really think about it.
It's probably a few reasons Like meeting the people.
Maybe that feels to me like kind of a selfish reason, right, because that's something I enjoy about it.
But I think also being able to maybe, like you know, communicate like these kinds of experiences and places and people and being able to like break down maybe those barriers or perceptions of what people think in place may be like, Because I think if you were to ask most people, oh, what do you think of Bali?
Or what did you do when you went to Bali?
Usually the same boring shit they could have done in Europe, like go to a beach club.
Yeah, or do you have some?
I don't want to talk about influences, some nice avocado toast stuff in Changi.
Most people I speak to in Changi I don't think I think most of them haven't even left.
They kind of stay on the same three streets, you mean, when they visit.
Or you mean living.
We have friends that visited here and, like what you know, they're in Seminyak or Changi, that area and that's their viewpoint of Bali.
That's their perspective of Bali.
I did get why people would stay here.
I do understand that, especially if maybe they're not like you and I and we have a huge reason and like desire to go out and see other places.
Right, I mean, it's what we do for a living Not only for a living, but it's also our passion.
There's nowhere I'd nothing I'd rather do than go and do that.
So for a lot of people here, they just want a cozy life and yeah that's also okay.
I shouldn't say I shouldn't slam that we should definitely judge them for that.
Yeah, we should.
Yeah, ignorant, yeah no, we had some of our best friends.
Just don't.
That's just not what they they see as a holiday, right?
So if they're they're going on a holiday, they want a villa with a pool and they're probably not gonna leave that very much.
Yeah in my opinion, you could do that many other places.
That probably wouldn't have to mean that you fly the other side of the world.
Yeah, it's just you know, if you for me, if you go to specific place, you want to go to that specific place To experience what's different in that culture that was unique, um, and you know you talked about it's kind of what we do is well, actually, for me, and I think for you, travel came first right, the should, the interest of travel, the interest of different cultures, the interest of educating yourself and and Becoming aware of how other people live, that came first.
Yeah, the photography is is exactly that for me as well.
It's like that, that medium, that way of of Telling I don't know compartmentalizing an experience or a culture or you know way of communicating essentially, yeah, it is so powerful.
And it was very interesting to, I think, look back on, like the things you've created as well not obviously my earliest stuff, but Like some of the things in Bali or the places I'll go and shoot, like when I, when I revisit, and you notice how they're changing.
Yeah, it's kind of scary in a way that how quickly this place is changing.
Like you can look at some fos They've taken it two years ago and go back there and it's you're now completely impossible to take that for the salt farmers.
Yeah, in Kisamba.
Yeah, like I actually tried to take my workshop group there in October last year.
We arrived and they're building, the government is building or they're moving the.
Is it the arts and culture Park?
I can't remember exactly what it is, but it's being moved to the east coast.
Okay, in Kisamba.
And so they've built this giant, like, I guess, stone pathway along that beach where the farmers would walk from the kind of flattened out sand areas where they would, you know, leave this sea water Kind of evaporating the sun and it leaves the salt.
So they would walk from that area and their hearts down to the ocean, collect the sea and the in the baskets and then walk it back up.
But now there's a giant pathway and stones either side, like all the way down that beach.
So so that work is completely changed now too.
So there's actually pipes that lead from the ocean Right through the pathway to the little flat.
So I I guess it's perhaps easier on them physically.
I heard it's actually more expensive for them because they need to pay for fuel, for the pumps, for the pumps.
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting to go back.
Then it's like, wow, I mean, that's a dying kind of craft anyway.
So there aren't.
There are any, a handful of places you could shoot that in Bali, not with black sand and and like deeply water like that.
I don't think there's anywhere else that you could shoot them Bali now.
But yeah, just interesting to think that.
Oh well, can never get that show again.
Yeah, that's kind of a Really nice thing to think about, but not so nice when you think about that kind of romantic trade is dying away, just like Everything really.
I mean, I've done so many projects now that I probably couldn't do again or it'd be even more difficult, just because this, the tribe or that's the co-op people are modernized, or Even when, when we did our last one of Salaya, we would, we went to shoot the sea gypsies and the badger and they it's so difficult to find them, like that's why we're going again, because we didn't find like the true, true authentic sea gypsies who are still Living literally off the water.
They're all.
They're all starting to modernize and so I'm moving towards the land.
It's good.
It's good, it is a good thing.
It's good, but it does it's yeah, it takes the kind of romance away from the art that you're trying.
Great, so it's yeah, it's, it's, it's win-win really for everyone.
But I still kind of want to pursue that there's dying tribes know that dying.
Romanticism of like creating that art.
Yeah right.
It's like oh, I really want to see this thing that In your head looks so amazing and you get there, and it's just not the case.
But it's not learning that.
It's not that or nothing, right, it's.
There's still some amazing, you know, art to create there, in whatever realm of life that you yeah, I go pass.
Yeah, there are, and there's still so many stories to be told.
Yeah, and what I'm out finding them.
Yeah, which is also difficult, I guess, in saturated world that we live in.
That's where inspirations come in.
Who, who, who do you kind of Still look up to and follow all the time?
And there there are a few photographers out there that you, you know, you consider the OG's yeah, Harry Pope.
I keep you'll be someone's.
OG laughing.
That's changed a number of times for me and I must say I don't honestly spend that much time, for better or worse, probably for us I don't spend that much time looking at other art.
Okay, I don't know why.
I guess this is not a habit of mine.
I actually have ordered some photography books Back home to England that I'm gonna bring out here because I want to spend more time looking at other people's art.
But say Alex Webber's one.
That's funny because I say that and I see, if you look at his first mine other completely different to his, but I really like his kind of style of shooting like that, the idea of just wandering around and, you know, just just kind of stumbling on into scenes and stuff like that.
I think when I read a few bits about him, that kind of encouraged me to do the same.
That was a couple of years ago, and so that's pretty much all I do now is just, yeah, wander around last, trying to see what I can do.
See Alex Webber be one I love, do you know?
Michael Sadovsky.
No.
I mean I don't love him personally, but okay he's a nice guy.
But but his work like mine's I on Instagram.
Okay, I very much enjoy some of his recent work.
I think his photographs are about as close to uh, you know he's more like Cityscape I.
I love his shots that are like cityscapes, kind of these urban scenes that have like a lone figure in them and the way his art is moving in my eyes is like it just looks so close to a painting.
It's is ridiculous.
Can I pull up his?
yeah, I'm gonna do.
I gotta show you this one piece in particular.
I cannot remember what he titled it, but it's just say, how the f*** did you even make this?
For people listening and not watching.
What's his, what's his Instagram handle again, mines.
Mines.
I mindz EYE look at this.
Look at this, that.
How is that not a painting?
Uh yeah, oh, I do know this guy.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
He's good yeah.
I mean incredible, incredible incredible.
Yeah, so minds I.
I think I love Alex Webstaff, billy D, billy D is great, probably influence.
There's some Billy D influence in here or the other way around.
So they were the colors.
I don't know, it almost looks like, but they look like paintings.
Yeah, a lot of his, a lot of Michael's stuff.
Yeah, um, I really love.
I'm a big fan of calf's work, yeah, yeah, we'll say they're kind of adventures and lengths.
She kind of goes to you to get her stuff.
I find pretty inspiring George Steinman's.
Yeah, the aerial guy.
Yeah, yeah, the aerial man the aerial who Chauvin adgeo for a long time, but like it's now kind of working on his more of his own projects, I think, yeah, I love that kind of the variety of the stories he captures and just things that you would never think, not even twice about.
You wouldn't think about them once.
Actually, like a lot of the things he goes to shoot.
So what the fuck that one after you?
Well, I remember when I met him I was just asking that why do you go and shoot these things?
And what an FIG do you like Want to see this stuff?
Like it's nothing I've ever even considered.
Um, so yeah, I mean they're just a few off the top of my head.
There are plenty of like artists work I enjoy, yeah, and I'm sure all of that stuff I see in some way comes back to me and do you know what I mean?
It kind of all adds up and helps me to think about what I'm doing in a different way.
So, yeah, it's weird.
I guess in some ways, like we have a lot of what we create to like everyone else.
There's also cringe.
Absolutely.
I don't know if there's such a thing as originality or uniqueness.
It's perhaps better.
It's more a combination of like all the things you've, all the other art you've seen, and then also the experiences you've had.
So I would argue, yeah, there is unique work, but it's also like a, it's a product of like everything else.
I think you can be unique without being original, because I think they're different.
Original means you know really there's nothing else, you know it's not, it's not influenced by anything, it's just.
But that's almost impossible because we're humans and we absorb everything from birth.
Right, it's all in the subconscious, yeah dude.
Yeah, it's like some weird.
So how you talked about your style changing and your, your kind of the way you go about taking photos and editing, has changed in the last what?
Oh, I guess it's evolved over time, would you say.
Yeah, not, not.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I went like when I started I just edited it on the Instagram app.
Oh, did you?
Yeah, um, I remember thinking like, oh, why can I not get this to look the way I'd look, the way I want it to look?
So, but I just posted it anyway.
Um, then I went through a very saturated, vibrant phase for a while.
That's always fun to look back at, um, where everything, all the skies were purple, the trees were yellow.
It's weird.
Okay.
Um, then a very decent style Then, yeah, I mean it's kind of bounced around, like over the last few years.
It's been more consistent in the last like year and a half I'd say, um, yeah, styles changed.
I also know that I share any of my street kind of work, but I shoot a lot more of that now, more so than I do probably anything else.
I was, I was.
I shoot now in landscape pretty much exclusively.
Yeah.
Yeah, I very, very rarely will I shoot in portrait.
Yeah, feels awkward now.
Yeah, I'm always pretty much in landscape.
Because I find people.
Yeah, there's a few, there's a definitely.
I would say 10%, 10%.
My work is in portrait, depends on the same.
Um, yeah, definitely depends on what you're trying to show, but I feel a lot of people out there will will just shoot portrait for Instagram.
Yeah, I did that.
Which does, which does my head in?
Yeah, I did that.
Yeah, Um you, I remember even thinking like I would have the lines, the grid kind of set up on my camera.
Um, and I was, I can't remember exactly how you'd have the grid, but I I'd know that what does it shoot, is it?
Is it four by three Like?
the way it comes out on a camera, typically right On the full frame, yeah, um, and you think, well, the the top and bottom of this frame is useless.
Like I'm, I'm not going to be able to have this on, like on my post, right, so I'm?
I was always thinking about one like how's this going to look as a four by five?
Then, if I, then, if that's cropped to a square for my feet, how's that going to look?
Um, which I think I still do to a degree.
Well, and it worked Right.
Yeah.
Sure.
I guess, so Got you hundreds of thousands of followers.
Yeah, I think about that sometimes and it's I don't know if it was just kind of strangely lucky in some way, because there's a lot of people that create really cool art and also share their art a lot, but just happened to be that, yeah, maybe I had the opportunity to travel more and so I could build an audience you know from, you know globally, as opposed to maybe just sharing stuff from the U S and building an audience there.
Um, yeah, maybe just weird that that many people enjoy my work.
It's not weird.
Um, you know, talking about inspirations, I mean it's, it's nice.
I'm not saying that they're weird, right, but it it's funny how things like work out because it wasn't the plan.
Yeah, but I mean it's not weird that I know it feels weird because you know I've been there where people like give you praise for stuff You're like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Ah, right, to what extent, that's the fact, that's what we talked about.
But you are an inspiration for hundreds of thousands people, if not more.
So you know, do you?
Do you think about how to not inspire people cause you?
You'll do that anyway through through your work.
But let's say, you're sat, you're sat down in front of the light room and you've got an image that you're happy with.
What is, what is?
How do you think about editing that photo through every photo?
Or is it just?
Do I take every photo by itself and just think about I mean, yeah, like I don't use presets.
I know that's not what you meant, but I will edit everything from scratch and take it as it is.
I mean I try to edit things kind of consistently.
Yeah, not for the sake of consistency itself, but because that's just in the look I enjoy.
But yeah, I edit everything from scratch.
I'll happily sit there for eight hours On one image One day, and then the next day I'll like go again for a while.
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah what are the.
I mean, I really enjoy editing.
I love it.
It almost as much as not as much as I probably did like being in the field, but I find it quite therapeutic to sit down and do that.
I know a lot of people would just try to smash out that edit as quickly as they can, just to get something posted, but for me that's not.
That doesn't sound like much fun.
No, I definitely agree.
And if I spend that much time, you know, and when, the field time and money, because I could be doing other things if I'm going to spend that much time in the field getting these images and maybe there's one in however many that I actually feel like is worth something by that, worth sharing with people or wherever, or worth spending the time to edit, then you know.
Therefore, I've put into editing that should mirror the effort it took to get it.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's no rush, or like, oh, like, I'm just going to give myself an hour to do this.
You know, if you're trying to be productive or something, well, from two to three I'm going to edit.
It's like.
Well, I can't do that.
Like good things, good art Just takes time.
Yeah, yeah.
Totally agree.
That's my innate way of doing it as well.
I didn't start that.
We did a project, and I know you know, but we did a project to Java in February, where it sees the rain most of the time, did EGN, bromo and then Ponderger, and I didn't sit down and edit any of those, not even selections, until April, like two months later.
Yeah, because I just I think there's, there's some kind of benefit in giving yourself space as well, like between capturing something and then, you know, just switching off from it for a minute because you become so.
It's like editing in one day You'll go back, the next they go.
Why?
did I edit like that yeah.
It's the same because you're immersed in it so much.
I kind of think that perspective is is good in a way, and I'm happy to take the time.
Yeah, it's gonna be something proud of yeah I say I don't think I could even do that anymore.
I used to be able to do that, like I used to go and shoot some rice, go back to the hotel, edit, and Then I posted the same day.
I, I just can't do that now.
Yeah, no, I think it kind of stresses me out and I'd rather just like do other things, just take just time at time.
I just edit it when I want to edit it.
Yeah, like I, even when I went to Egypt and my guy was like, oh, like I hope you're gonna post these soon, maybe one of the tag or something.
He's like oh, I hope you'll post.
He's saying that when do you think you're gonna post him?
I don't know, like stop asking me.
Yeah, I'm still getting a hand to our feet as.
I'm getting messages from people we shot in February and they're like where's my photo?
Where's my photo?
I said I've told you millions of times like You'll get it.
I promise you I get it.
We have a verbal agreement You'll get the photo, but just give give me time, can't just turn this around.
Yeah.
But maybe people think different when they see my photos.
What you spent.
Well, I'm on that.
They also don't understand what we do.
Yeah, are you?
It's got to be in the right mood for it as well.
I I don't wake up every day, go, oh, you know, today I'm really gonna edit stuff sometimes.
Right, I've got other stuff to do, right.
Yeah, I mean, imagine you you like wake up and oh, I really don't want to shoot today, and then you can shoot.
Why'd you do that?
You won't be excited when you're in the field and like yeah, I've been to talking to new people instead of, like you've been a reserved and annoyed that you're there.
How would you define your style if you could?
Oh?
God, oh God.
I mean I'd like to maybe think of it now as more Documentary style.
That's that kind of seems like offensive to those that actually really shoot, like a true documentary style.
You know, with the horizon is like off usually and it's of like I don't know.
It is like rough Kind of yeah, minimal edits moments, yeah, right right where it looks like straight out of camera.
Yeah basically, I don't know, I think maybe I have two styles like that's the one I share publicly, the I just had in my Instagram, which I enjoy.
I didn't, I didn't just continue to share that because For the sake of it, because I have to keep up appearances or something like.
No, I still enjoy that very much, like it's a totally different.
It's almost like I don't know.
I think a bit more is like a precisionist kind of style, like everything's very calculated.
Yeah, I would agree with that like a yeah, you know, like everything fits near perfectly and Kind of clean.
Yeah, like very clean.
But then I have like the the doggie style stuff that I kind of like, that I shot at each in, yeah.
Um.
I honestly don't know how I how I'd describe it like.
I sometimes think about that, like I asked myself that question and I just don't.
I don't know how to answer it.
I think I just let other people do it.
I just let other people think of it what they want.
The Jordan Hammond style yeah, it's just my style of shit and I yeah, that's it, you know.
Do you think having a style as important as a photographer?
Yeah, sure, I mean, how does people to recognize your work?
Yeah.
Um, cuz you're like.
A lot of people have said to me like, oh, if I see like your photo Somewhere, like I'll know it's yours, without even seeing your name.
Or like if I person in, if I posted it on Instagram, oh yeah, this is like.
This is a Jordan Hammond.
I know this was was yours without even seeing your name, kind of thing, which I guess can be helpful.
I mean, I think it helps have a style.
If your work just looks like you know, like most other peoples, then yeah, it's not really gonna stand out, and then how I don't know how you're gonna build a and a career of that, I think some people argue you can have various styles according to yeah, what you're trying to Do or get out, especially when it comes to client work.
Yeah, you could have different styles with different types of brands right.
Yeah, yeah, you can like.
When I used to edit in a much more saturated way.
I, I'm absolutely certain that I'm gonna be able to do it.
I'm absolutely certain, when I look back, that I edited the brand stuff in the same way.
Okay, it's not great, yeah, that's not great, but I, I don't know why I did that.
To be quite honest, I think I just liked it, so I did it and didn't really care about, yeah, anything else the brands like it.
They like it.
Apparently they liked it.
Yeah, it was just surprising in hindsight, but yeah, I mean that's fine with me, but yeah, I think having this, oh yeah, I think it's important.
I mean, you don't often see people like editing and posting stuff let's let's just use Instagram for the, you know, for sake of time but you don't see people posting that stuff in completely different styles.
No well, you don't see the the the more successful, successful, popular accounts doing that because, yeah, people don't want to go to an Instagram account and it's.
And you're like, what is all this?
There's a scattered kind of style or approach and then I'm gonna follow you.
It's just not attractive.
Yeah, it's interesting.
I mean I did a video about this a couple of weeks ago, how important style is, and I got a lot, of, a lot of pushback.
Yeah which is interesting because I believe in Believe what the voice and what you're trying to say is more important, but you got to have a cohesive style because it Helps with identity.
It helps with building a body of work.
If you want to get to the end of your career and look back at work, it's you don't want to.
You want to see the evolution, I guess, and the development, but underneath all of that, surely there needs to be a Cohesiveness.
Yeah, and a lot of opportunities come from having a style.
Yeah.
Yeah, like I had a company recently I can't remember what they were like an energy company or something that there seemed like a cool opportunity, like something I'd want to photograph.
I Didn't realize the sustainable palm oil was a thing.
I thought it was all bad.
Yeah, maybe I just maybe I need to look into that further Before people flame me for this.
But yeah, they wanted me to come out to Sumatra to like Do more doggy style, slash, like you know, if their workers and and like the plantations.
So you can imagine, like the top down area or stuff, yeah that, and then more doggy stuff for the workers in maybe the factories and like that.
But that's any because of my style talk to me about your.
I'm just kind of touched on education a bit.
It's clearly a big part of your life, even before photography, with your, with your specific courses and workshops.
How do you, how do you I mean, I don't want to say how do you educate, but what are the kind of the most important tools to you know?
Bring a very complex Concept when it comes for tophi and compartmentalize it so people can actually understand, and what are the tools you'd need to do that?
I Mean I think I just try to keep it as simple as possible, because that's how I feel about photography.
I didn't feel like it needs to be that complicated.
Yeah, I mean I just try to keep it as simple as possible.
I try my best to.
I Mean, really, what I'm trying to do is just give people an insight into how my brain is kind of thinking about this whole like thing like the that being photography.
Yeah, try to do it step by step.
I mean I guess it depends on who you're trying to target.
If it's, if it's beginners, then you really need to kind of hold their hand from, like the very, very basics.
Yeah, I mean I mean David is tough, though is tough China?
I Remember when I first started doing this and I was trying to think of how to teach people about what's going into my brain, I was like I don't, I can't think how to do this.
So because I didn't, I didn't think about it.
You just do it.
You just, yeah, you just kind of go through the motions without really thinking about it all that much.
Yeah, I guess you just try and like speak your mind, like why you're doing it.
I try to keep it simple.
I don't think it's that complicated at all, especially if you want to take good first, not talking about, like you know, first they're gonna like change the world or or anything like that, but like if you want to, just a good photo, is that you're the you'd like to have on your wall.
I don't think that's that difficult.
It just takes time.
You know, and I can only teach so much.
You know you could sign up to my course and and watch it three once and and well, you know it's like them.
What are you going to do with that information?
If you just watched it and didn't go out to shoot for the next three months, well then it's kind of a waste of time.
Yeah, putting it into practice, yeah.
Yeah, you need to get out there and and try these new techniques out and you need to meet with other creatives so you can kind of get inspired by by them or take some kind of ideas from them and share like concepts with each other and an experiment, you know, yeah, If you're not going out to shoot, then I mean, basically it all comes down to actually practicing.
If I don't go out and shoot for a month which I didn't think has ever happened since I started taking phase I feel like I'm I kind of feel like I'm starting again in a weird way.
Yeah, you know, it's definitely rustiness.
There's rustiness.
Yeah, I didn't feel like I'm starting again.
That was.
That was a huge exaggeration but yeah you do feel rusty, you know, kind of feel awkward, yeah, like when you go out there and do that and and a lot of people, like quite a few people I talk to, it's just surprising to hear this contradiction of, like, how much they love photography and how much they want to improve against how much they actually go and shoot and how much time they actually spend doing that thing.
Yeah, I often I feel like it doesn't kind of match up.
People like the idea more than yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
And then once they realize, once they realize there's a lot of hard work that you know and it's all down to them, you can watch.
I call it, actually I don't call it.
I learned this phrase from a friend of mine.
But shelf help it's where people read loads of books, where they do loads of courses and they learn loads of things.
Never, fuck, take it off the shelf and actually go and use it and implement it.
So many people like I've done that I've got, you know bought courses and never actually completed them.
I read a stat, like We've all done, that 7% of people actually buy an online course and complete the whole thing.
Yeah, I mean, that doesn't surprise me because I've been that 93%.
So yeah, it's.
It's.
That doesn't surprise me when you say that Is that a frustration for you as a?
You just not really care and people are going to buy a course.
They're going to buy a course.
Well, I'd like to think people would make the way through the whole thing.
You know, if I should know the percentage of the, you know the average kind of watch time or percentage watched, so would know that I should have brought with me.
But you'd like to think people make their way through the whole thing, but it might be that it's not particularly necessary for them.
Yeah, if I'm, let's say, doing a lesson on, let's say, gear I'd recommend for 2023, or someone might already be completely happy with what they have.
Yeah, I might do a.
I didn't do a lesson on astrophotography because I have no interest in it.
Uh, if I did and somebody watching it had no interest in that, then why did they watch it?
Yeah, they wouldn't really be.
I mean, you could argue there'd be a point.
Maybe they'd learn some techniques that they could, kind of transferable skills that they could apply to their work elsewhere.
But yeah, I don't know, it's that that's kind of our not in itself like trying to create a course that will encourage people to work their way through the whole thing.
Yeah, that's probably the biggest difficulty is is motivating them enough to, and that's why I asked you before, like, do you add on like in person sessions?
I guess it's, and you said you do like some mentoring.
Is that an additional package that you okay?
So, people buy the course, and then they can also buy mentoring on top of that.
Yeah, they can buy.
They can pay for mentoring on top of that.
Uh, of course I couldn't offer that for free, because you know if I had to privately mentor two and a half thousand people?
I think, yeah, I'd exploit, yeah, yeah, we'd just be doing literally all the time.
Yeah, and it's fine.
I really quite enjoy that because then you get to know these individual people on a on a much more personal level and often that you know you kind of just the same.
It's just like looking at if I'm teaching somebody like about photography and the business side of things.
It's like I'm talking to myself in a way, um like five or six years ago.
Yeah.
And you can see that.
You know, you can see that kind of I don't know the fears and maybe insecurities of these people and then I don't know nice to just talk to them and be like, yeah, you're going to be fine, yeah, don't worry about it.
I'm sure that's what I did when I was like kind of at that stage of the process.
But do you, conversely?
Do you have any people?
You just go?
I'm not sure about your skill in this area.
Of course.
Yeah, um, do you mean that I privately mentor?
No, you know, people are usually quite serious when, when they want like private mentoring, and I'm also cognizant of the fact that people you know we all as at different stages of the process.
You know it's not like I don't.
I never I sit there and we'll judge someone's work, like that.
I wouldn't say that, oh, I don't know about you because you can always learn these things.
Yeah, um, it just takes time.
Yeah, yeah.
And how much work are you willing to put in?
Some people want others and it shows.
Yeah, it's not like it's not, it's not.
I mean people can have a talent for photography or specific area of photography, but for sure it's.
You know everyone can learn it.
Yeah.
It's not exclusive to any type of person.
Everyone can learn it, but there's always going to be people that are better?
Yeah, of course, yeah.
I mean that's that's the nature of it.
It's funny like a lot of the time people say, oh it's, it's subjective, it's not necessarily like there's not like a bad photo.
I think that is total bullsh**.
Of course there's bad photos.
Absolutely.
Yeah, they're everywhere.
Yeah, they're in our heads.
No, there are good photos and there are bad photos, and there are great photos and there are terrible photos, and that is, I believe that to be true.
Yeah, and then there's there's artistic photos, and then there are non-artistic photos.
Yeah.
Just because you take photos doesn't mean it's art.
Speaking of learning like can you just just just for a little, um little, I guess gambit, or your caption Give us like one of your most important lessons or tips in tricks in photography?
Just that's it.
Go and shoot more.
Yeah, just pick up a camera and get out.
Yeah, just go and shoot more.
No, yeah, they don't know what they're doing.
Well, you'll figure it out.
Get out and shoot more.
Seriously, yeah, if you really want to, if you really that serious about improving your photography, like, go and shoot more, are you going once a month?
Okay, like once a week?
At least once a week, for goodness sake, like I know, it's maybe a little difficult if you're well, that's I was going to say if you're working a full-time job and you really want to pursue photography, but then you're just going to have to find a way to make it work.
And, like we said earlier, if you really wanted that badly I don't know if I did say that earlier, but if you really wanted that badly then you'll find a way of making it work.
So one would be to go and shoot more, um, as as much as you possibly can.
To like my second one, we'll probably be to spend more time with other artists.
Um, that's something I haven't done so much over in the last few years and I don't know, but I think, especially when you're starting out, I think that can be very helpful.
Um, once you kind of find your feet and your style and you know what you like to shoot, then you know sometimes a lot easier to go alone, um, cause you're not going to be held back by anyone, but I think, yeah, when you're starting out, spending time with other artists can be a really, really great help to you know, find in your feet to learn any things and shit like that.
I mean, I even honestly learned things from the students that come on my workshop sometimes, but they'll do things that I'm that I might have completely forgotten about.
You know, that I haven't done in years.
I'm like, oh yeah, that makes complete sense, like it might be like an angle away, like a perspective they'll use to approach a certain subject.
I haven't done for a very long time, or maybe I never did, and I'm like that actually looks really good.
I should, you know, and then you start to incorporate that into your work in some way.
Um, especially for, you know, if we're talking about editing as well, I think that's something people struggle with equally as well.
As you know, caption, like a really great photo, can be that editing.
So spending time with people, be it in person or or, you know, downloading doesn't have to be my cause, but like downloading anyone's courses for you know, maybe you really like their style and learning stuff from them, joining their Facebook groups and learning from the other students in that course can be very helpful.
Um, yeah, I think that would be that.
That would be it, and and maybe just to experiment a little bit more when you're in the field yeah, don't don't go out with trying to go out with, like a such a preconceived idea of what you need to shoot.
Yeah, just be open to like your surroundings when you're there and and to shooting whatever it is that interests you.
Yeah, I got a lot to unpack there, but no, yeah, there's great advice.
I think it's easier to say than do, but practice is key, and people used to say that to me when I was learning.
I think I've got it, which I absolutely didn't, and even now you can go and do a shoot and you'll pick something up or you'll think about something differently.
You can only get that through doing it yourself, through failing or accidentally stumbling on something else.
Now that worked.
I would do that again.
So, especially if you're learning and you're still trying to get your head around the technical aspects of camera settings or just the golden triangle- or whatever it is.
I put sayings on the back burner for beginners.
I think people overcomplicate things.
Focus on getting the shot, even if the sentence of like you'll figure that out over time.
But people that were certainly in my experience.
I mean most nearly all of the questions I get on social media is what camera should I buy, right?
Or what setting do you use for this?
Like no, no, no, that's not the question you should be asking.
I understand, because I used to ask those kind of questions but we've got to dispel this myth and this perception that it's about the settings or the equipment.
Yes, they're important, but learning how to see, learning how to capture a moment or see what would work as a photograph, irrespective of the settings or the technical side of it, is way more important.
Yeah, the settings often have very little to do with, like that final outcome.
Yeah, yeah, interesting.
I've got a question from our last guest.
Oh, yes, he, you know him.
Usually I don't say who the guest was, but it's obvious now because this is chronological.
But he asks and he didn't know he was asking you.
But he's asking if you got offered to go to the moon, would you say yes?
And why you can't just say yes.
You've got to give me some depth.
No, I don't have to say why do I, why wouldn't you go to?
the moon, you know what that's funny.
He's asked that because we me and him have spoken about this.
Oh really.
And really what I needed to know was well, how long is this mission to the moon and how long will I be there?
Because there's actually plenty of things I'd like to do and see on earth and plenty of people I'd like to spend my time with here.
So I don't know.
I don't really have any interest in going to the moon and spending all my time in like a capsule, not many photography opportunities?
No, not really.
Even though I could go up and back in.
You know, if I could do a couple of weeks, sure, but I'm not going up there for like months at a time, mate, there's loads of things I want to do here.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's so many things to go and see, so many people to meet Such as what is the end mammal.
What is the next 12 months look like for you?
What are those things that you want to do and that you've got planned?
More workshops.
Yeah, I'm going to do a Vietnam.
We just launched dates for 2024 for Bali.
I'd like to do them in Bali, Java and Vietnam Ideally two in each place per year would be quite nice, I think, for now.
Cool, That'll keep me busy.
Also on the horizon yeah, it's still YouTube.
I actually have all the equipment that I need now, Kind of the studio I'm trying to film.
Everything is kind of shabby, but that's more so an excuse and me being insecure and probably fearful of starting it than anything else.
So, yeah, YouTube really is, I would say, the most important one for me.
I don't want to actually talk about it too much because if I talk, the more I talk about it, I feel like the less likely I am to do it.
It's easy to talk about and not do it, but that's definitely something I'd like to do.
I think I don't know.
I think it would be just maybe interesting for people to kind of find out more about my process and how I approach it.
I think I can help people.
So that would be kind of an education tool that people will see behind the scenes.
Yeah, and just something fun for me to do.
I think I'd like to document how I do myself.
I think it would be cool to look back on.
I don't have just any challenge as well.
I like to do different things With the client projects, then courses, private tutoring, nfts, then moving into this new kind of area.
I think I would get a kick out of it.
I think that's next, that's probably next 12 months is what I'd like to focus on most and, of course, my own personal projects.
They're always kind of overarch everything, I guess, don't they?
Yeah, they do.
And I mean I have a million things I want to shoot over the next year.
So we're going to see how that goes.
The first is probably to go back to Mount Heagin.
Go back, oh, of course, I mean, two days is nothing.
Yeah, we did the same two days and then barely touched the surface.
Yeah, I mean you look at some photographers and their photography books are made over a 30-year period.
Yeah, and I had people asking me on Instagram are you going to read a good book?
Saying yeah.
No, I'm not.
Yeah, no, why?
Maybe when I'm 50?
or something.
Yeah, and I've had time to actually digest the places that I'm adjusted in and really capture something that means something.
Imagine curating that book.
Get out, get out.
How are you doing?
All right, man, let's wrap up with.
This is the conversation cards I was talking about earlier.
Thanks to Steven Bartlett for these.
He's got great podcasts, but he Big up Steve.
He has, you know, he does the same thing where the guest will.
You know, see right a question for the next guest.
And these are basically the cards.
Okay, have all of them.
So I think we'll do it kind of random If you just pick a card and I'll ask the question All right, All right here we go.
Who's this?
Who asked this?
Oh, good question.
This was Pay Payal.
I don't know who this is.
Definitely didn't watch that podcast.
Payal Kadakia, payal Kadakia.
Do you know who that?
Anyway, good question.
When was the last time a day flew by and what were you doing?
Cool.
So last time a day flew by was it had to be yesterday.
I got back from survival of a hangover and it just kind of just flew by Okay, no, maybe.
Last time a day flew by.
What was I doing?
I would say, yeah, when I went to Mt Eugen fairly recently, or maybe even one of the days, in Vietnam, to be quite honest, yeah, I went to photograph the Lai Chi harvest in Bac Dian, just north of Hanoi, and that day absolutely flew by.
I think I shot I mean we were up at like 345, drove to the harvest, shot that until midday.
I shot a ton of other things that day.
I couldn't even tell you what, yeah, and it just kind of wound up at the end of the day and I was like wow, what the f*** just happened.
I think that happens when you're just in what you love, like you just completely lose track of time.
Yeah.
There's a flow state isn't there and that's a bit of a cliche, but it is.
With photographers and artists, I find that that's common in everyone they love.
They just lose themselves in their craft.
I think that's it's difficult to explain to people, right?
But it's Flow state.
Yeah, it is flow, state you just?
Oh, my God, it's what time?
Yeah, that's when I'm the most happiest, for sure, yeah, yeah, that's why I try to go and shoot here as much as possible.
Yeah, yeah, there's like literally nothing else I'd rather be doing.
Yeah, I think that was the last time I didn't really know what happened in that day that I got to the end and I was like how do you s***?
Cool.
Yeah, it's awesome.
Yeah, we look forward to it when we're going to see.
I think you've posted a couple of the photos from Vietnam.
Yeah, just a couple too, maybe.
Yeah, I'm going to go back and edit some stuff after this, but Okay.
Yeah, I've still got so many photos to work through, yeah, yeah.
But there we come and see.
Thank you for spending your time with us.
Thanks, very enjoyable.
Yeah, it was nice, but we really get to see each other, yeah we do.
It was nice to kind of just shoot the s***.
Yeah, love that.
Thanks for having me mate.
Thanks for coming, and I'm sure there'll be a part two at some point.
Yeah, why not?
In the meantime, good luck with all the projects, workshops.
Where can people find you?
What can people see and where?
They can follow me on Instagram Look forward, to Look forward to.
Yeah, at George Hammond.
If you want to follow my street photography account on Instagram that has no posts, you can find me at hordejammond.
Yeah, I remember that.
Yeah, which, by the time this podcast goes live, I imagine I'll have some photos up on there, but I thought that was more of your personal kind of personal one, but you made it into a street.
Well, yeah, I wrote that about personal pages.
I have no interest in posting pictures of myself anyway, maybe on my stories if I look particularly handsome that day.
No, I'm checking.
No, I don't want to post my personal life on a feed of any kind.
No, I just want to post other photos I enjoy taking.
So yeah, that will be there.
George Hammond, or Hordejammond George Hammond or Hordejammond, we'll look out for it.
Again, thanks for coming.
Absolutely pleasure.
Take care and see you soon.
Bye, just fist bumping, bye.