"Superman Returns" (2006) What the HECK happened?

[SPEAKER_01]: In nineteen seventy-eight, you believed a man could fly.
[SPEAKER_01]: In nineteen eighty, you believed he could peel the emblem from his chest and throw it like a giant cellophane tarp.
[SPEAKER_01]: In nineteen eighty-three, you believed a little synthetic kryptonite could turn the man of steel into a barfiting drunk who wrestles himself in a junkyard.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in nineteen eighty-seven, you wished you had the power to spin the earth backwards and erase whatever that was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then, in two thousand six, he returned.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this time, the big blue boy scout must have had too much tar in his kryptonite.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a stalker with superhearing.
[SPEAKER_01]: A deadbeat dad with x-ray vision.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, the surely you can't be serious podcast begs the question, what the heck happened to Superman Returns?
[SPEAKER_05]: Look up in the sky!
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a bird!
[SPEAKER_05]: No, it's a plane!
[SPEAKER_05]: It's Superman Returns!
[SPEAKER_05]: What the heck happened?
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, everybody, we're here today to discuss the two thousand and six movie Superman Returns.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is the comeback of the man of steel, the man in blue, the big blue boy scout, but it landed with a fizzle with viewers and people at the box office.
[SPEAKER_05]: And here today to discuss it, we've got James D. Graves, my co-host, and Man of Steel extraordinary looks like Clark Kent right there in the picture.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then we've got our look like of Lex Luther right here, Jeff Johnson from the film by podcast.
[SPEAKER_05]: I saw that one coming.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, how you doing today, man?
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, I am doing great.
[SPEAKER_04]: This one, I think this one's gonna hurt.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I love doing these what the heck happen episodes with you guys, but this one, this one's gonna hurt a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, you know, I just gotta say, since there might be some new viewers or listeners, everybody welcome to the Shirley, you can't be serious podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you are, in fact, Shirley fans, or if you want to become Shirley fans, you will be different.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes you'll feel like an outcast, but you'll never be alone.
[SPEAKER_03]: You will make our strength your own.
[SPEAKER_03]: You will see life through our eyes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And as your life will be seen through hours, the sun becomes the father and the father becomes the sun.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here's me chills.
[SPEAKER_05]: Alright guys, let's get into it because this week we are discussing Superman Returns from two thousand and six to Batman and Robin of nineteen ninety seven.
[SPEAKER_05]: Last week we talked about Batman and Robin nineteen ninety seven.
[SPEAKER_05]: That movie was a steaming pile of crap.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think you can say the same thing about this movie.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think it's a steaming pile of crap, but there are some things that went wrong.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that it wasn't very successful.
[SPEAKER_05]: People didn't like it.
[SPEAKER_05]: People didn't really take to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so I made just to get into that with you guys.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you want to start off?
[SPEAKER_05]: Tell us how you saw this moving the first time and what you remember about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I believe trying to think I believe the first time that I saw this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was a new father, so going out to the theater was not something that I did at that time.
[SPEAKER_03]: So as soon as it was available on DVD, I rented the DVD so that I could watch it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And quite frankly, I enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It made me smile the first time Superman shows up and he does the throwback line to the original Superman movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it actually wasn't until I talked to my new friend and Jason Colvin that I found out the people didn't really like this movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, for about you.
[SPEAKER_04]: I could tell you, and and a film by podcast listeners have heard this story before, but I was hearing about the movie from behind the scenes a year before it came out because my best friend, Brad Kozo, who lives in Los Angeles, he was out with friends hanging out one night.
[SPEAKER_04]: They ran into Brian Singer and some of his friends.
[SPEAKER_04]: They all had a great time and ended up back at Bryant.
[SPEAKER_04]: Singers placed hanging out where a Bryant singer was like, hey, check out some of these delies.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know, when I got that call from Brad about what he had seen and what was going on, I, my mind was blown because this is, you know, I'm finding I'm listening about Marlon Brando's cameo months and months before it was ever mentioned anywhere.
[SPEAKER_04]: I did end up seeing this opening day.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm a huge Superman fan.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was a little surprised to find out that maybe this wasn't the movie people were hoping for and it didn't land as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, ultimately it makes like what, four hundred million dollars.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it succeeded.
[SPEAKER_04]: It just didn't succeed to the studios expectations.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, to me, the interesting thing about Superman Returns is it's kind of journey from not only Superman for, but Superman too.
[SPEAKER_05]: So really, you can almost go back to, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in,
[SPEAKER_05]: It was not the movie I was interested in.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought it was the Richard prior movie with Superman kind of adjacent.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now Superman, four, we discussed, go back to our season two episode, our first what the heck happened episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we talked about the salt kinds and their meddling and their obtaining of this franchise and what they did to it and it was just a big disaster.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the salt giants were the ones who did the original series.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were the ones who did Superman one and Superman two.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was the canon group that ultimately ended up with the rights to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the canon group is the one that gave a Superman four.
[SPEAKER_05]: You remember how the canon group got a hold of this property?
[SPEAKER_05]: I believe it's because Supergirl did so poorly that they lost control because they were out of money and they spent on his money and so they lost control the property, gave it over the category because Supergirl was so bad which I've always said that is the worst DC movie to me it is way worse than Superman for I
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, Supergirl.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll tell you, there's some, there's some Warner Brothers Superhero movies that maybe you haven't seen because, uh, the Supergirl maybe not the worst.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Look at you, Jonah Hex.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I have seen Jonah Hex.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll take Supergirl over that one any day.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So today we're going to break down what we think worked, what we think didn't work, maybe some trivia tidbits, and then we're going to compare this to Batman and Robin,
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I hope this experience hasn't put any of you offline.
[SPEAKER_02]: Statistically speaking, it's still the safest way to travel.
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess let's start off with, what do you think worked for this movie?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, a couple of major factors.
[SPEAKER_03]: Number one, Brandon Roth as Superman was a pristine choice.
[SPEAKER_03]: He looks exactly like Superman looks like he's got the perfect face, he's got the perfect physique, he is Superman.
[SPEAKER_03]: And not only did he give a Superman, but he did without going overboard
[SPEAKER_03]: A very solid homage to Christopher Reeve who I think is always going to be our Superman.
[SPEAKER_03]: He certainly, when he was playing Clark Kent, it was definitely a throwback to all of the Christopher Reeves stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that hit the remember buttons for me very nicely.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, of course, using John Williams score from the original Superman movie was a huge plus for me as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: The special effects in this were actually pretty solid.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you guys know how I feel about CGI, but I mean, we talk about that first scene with the plane and the shuttle.
[SPEAKER_03]: All of that obviously was done with CGI, but done very well and incredibly intense and incredibly exciting, great end to the
[SPEAKER_03]: to the whole sequence, just flawlessly executed in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_03]: Kevin Spacey, another solid choice.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if anybody's going to come in and fill the shoes of Gene Hackman as like sleuthier, Kevin Spacey is another fantastic casting decision.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know that you guys are going to disagree with me on this, but I actually enjoyed Kate Bosworth.
[SPEAKER_03]: I felt like she played an intelligent, although I didn't even know that she was very young at the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I thought she played an intelligent lowest lane, certainly more attractive than
[SPEAKER_03]: kidder what's your name uh uh I mean it's not yeah k-bos worth substantially more attractive than margo kidder ever was even in playboy uh and so I think there's a lot that went right with this I think that Bryan Singer made a lot of great choices I mean he's coming off of X-Men on this and he knows how to do superhero movies I feel like what he chose to do on this
[SPEAKER_03]: was more in line with what Richard Donner had as his vision for the first one, where it's more about story and cinema that it is about action and adventure.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I know that again, missed for a lot of people, but to me, I thought it was well done.
[SPEAKER_05]: Jeff, what about you?
[SPEAKER_05]: What do you think he did right?
[SPEAKER_04]: I think he did the first forty-one minutes and fifty-six seconds.
[SPEAKER_04]: Pitch perfect, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: We get the optics, the title optics, the font.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is an absolute love letter to Richard Donner's Superman.
[SPEAKER_04]: So from the music, from William's music, I think John Oppen is jumping in to compose on this one.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's using William's score, which is fantastic.
[SPEAKER_04]: and from the beginning like kind of connecting us to Superman to letting us know like this is what happened and this is where he's been for five years and bringing us back in you know we get that little bit of an origin where we see a young Clark Kent discovering his powers the pictures gorgeous and like I said the first forty forty one forty two minutes is just perfect
[SPEAKER_04]: Gotta agree with D here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Lex Luther played by Kevin Spacey.
[SPEAKER_04]: He absolutely nails it because he's menacing, but he also is doing a subtle wink to Gene Hackman with his sarcasm and I think it's fantastic.
[SPEAKER_04]: I absolutely love Kevin Spacey in this.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think he's definitely a top three Lex Luther for me overall.
[SPEAKER_04]: and totally enjoyed him.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I alluded to this earlier, but seeing Marlin Brando as D'Rel in the fortress of solitude just gives me chills.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't care how many times I've seen this movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: I am, you got my full attention when D'Rel when he puts that crystal in D'Rel starts talking and it's Marlin Brando.
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely love that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, one more time I'll agree with the Brandon Ralph.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you gotta remember, he is in like, two thousand four, two thousand five.
[SPEAKER_04]: He is discovered by Bryan Singer and Lucky Strike bowling alley.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, he's ten and bar and Bryan Singer basically says, I don't care if he can act.
[SPEAKER_04]: He looks just like Christopher Reeve.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's my Superman.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're not going to say no to be in the next Superman, especially when you're trying to get discovered in, you know, Hollywood in two thousand five.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, fantastic.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, for me, you know, I was pretty critical of this movie when I first saw it.
[SPEAKER_05]: There are some problems with me that I think were huge missteps, but upon rewatch, I have, I have softened my stance on this movie.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, at the end, I, we talked about, I think this is one of the movies we talked about on one of our long jobs in the two thousand and nine when we first were getting to know each other.
[SPEAKER_05]: I never really enjoyed this movie, but
[SPEAKER_05]: Upon rewatch, this movie is beautiful.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is gorgeous to look at.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is subtle.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is skillfully made.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think what you see on screen is what I go to movies to watch.
[SPEAKER_05]: I felt like a man could fly.
[SPEAKER_05]: I felt like the effects were good.
[SPEAKER_05]: I felt like the action when presented was fantastic.
[SPEAKER_05]: The airplane crash was, that's what I go to cinema to watch.
[SPEAKER_05]: That part was fantastic.
[SPEAKER_05]: Just kind of dulled down on you guys.
[SPEAKER_05]: I do have Brandon Ralph written down.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought he was great.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought he was not a Christopher Reeve impersonator, but it was in homage, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought he did very well in what he was trying to do.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought Kevin Spacey was a great Lex Luther.
[SPEAKER_05]: But to me, my favorite character in this whole movie was
[SPEAKER_05]: Franklin jealous portrayal of Perry White.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought he was great.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought he was sort of fatherly but not jerky.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I love there's a scene in the movie where they're looking at pictures that Jimmy Olson has taken.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he's like, you know, Jimmy, what did you take here?
[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, it's a bird.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's playing.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, it's, and then knock knock knock.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's Clark.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought that was genius, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought that was incredible.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then just like you guys seeing the cut out like the outtakes of Marvin Brando as Jarrell, when I saw it in Peter, I was like, wow, that is fantastic.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how they got the rights to do that.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then of course, John Williams score absolutely incredible.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is Superman to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it just, it really sealed in what they were trying to do.
[SPEAKER_05]: So to me, there's so much to like in this movie.
[SPEAKER_05]: It can nearly overcome its missteps.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nearly.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to say this since you mentioned Franklin Jella.
[SPEAKER_03]: My earliest movie memory as a very little kid like it was probably was nineteen seventy eight and it wasn't Superman.
[SPEAKER_03]: My family took me to see a double feature as a little kid of
[SPEAKER_03]: young Frankenstein and Dracula.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I can still to this day remember seeing that last scene in Dracula where Franklin jealous face is like starting to peel off as he's being exposed to the sun because I was just you know tiny little kid and I'm just like, what is going on intense memory from probably back at the same time that Superman was was rocking the theaters.
[SPEAKER_04]: D, you and I are in tune right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was just about to say, when I hear Franklin Jella, I think Dracula, Skeletor, Perry White.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's my big lane, Jella three.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've got about Skeletor, that was good.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know what else?
[SPEAKER_05]: That was cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: And this move out.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just then dropped one more thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: The fact that you may not even notice.
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you know the old lady that Kevin Spacey is milking for her money before she's about to pass away?
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you know who that was played by?
[SPEAKER_05]: The old lady.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I so I this is one of those this is one of those moments as I was watching the movie that I'm I'm looking at I'm going to hang she looks familiar and I was I was thinking okay I'm going to pause it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to go figure out who she is and dive down that rabbit hole and basically I just said no I'm just going to sit here and watch this movie and a completely bad statement to just now so she said it's so familiar.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, who's couldn't place it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to blow your mind here.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the old lady that Kevin Space is taking all the money from so that he can get back on his feet and be master criminal, whatever.
[SPEAKER_05]: That woman is played by no meal who played Lois Lane in the fifties TV show, the Superman.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: Fantastic.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's amazing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just Lois for the George Reeves, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: How about that?
[SPEAKER_03]: That is fantastic.
[SPEAKER_03]: So also side note that first scene, excellent.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like when you see what's that whole moment as he obviously is signing her name and then walks out and the whole family is out there and he hands his wig with the little girl and she screams.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean that is Senate.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a gold right there guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: I loved it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: You guys ready to talk about what does not work in this movie?
[SPEAKER_05]: I can talk about that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That place was a graveyard.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm all that's left.
[SPEAKER_05]: Problems with this movie, D kicks up, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the easy and obvious choice that I honestly really didn't catch, I didn't clue into is the fact that Superman is using his X-ray vision to spy on his ex-girlfriend.
[SPEAKER_03]: That he breaks into your house.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's later on.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, honestly, he's certainly done that.
[SPEAKER_03]: He did that in the first one.
[SPEAKER_03]: He shows up on Lewis's deck or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the kind of spying without letting her know that he's there, that's a little creepy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't pick up on it, but I can also say as, you know, I don't know that I don't think I'm alone here that whenever your heart is broken, sometimes you may linger on your drive via your ex-girlfriend's house.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you had X-ray vision,
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's I mean really that's that's the biggest problem that I have with this movie is the is the kind of weird behavior that he has when he realizes that Lewis is with this other guy but I thought yeah that's about I won't go on Jeff you go ahead give us what you got
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, if I could a quick rebuttal to that scene, because Jason, I know you and I talked about it a while back, and I know you're not a big fan of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think this is kind of the situation.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, do you talk about, like, you're going to drive by your girlfriend's house?
[SPEAKER_04]: I think this is the situation where when your buddies are telling you that, hey, man, she's doing better.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's, she's, she's better off.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's doing, she's happy now.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you don't want to believe it until you look across the you know the barn you see here with the new guy and you see that he's actually a decent guy you need you need to see it for yourself and I feel like this is him just giving himself like the the big hurt to say hey I need to see it for myself Jimmy Olsen has talked about how she's a mom and she's all happy and he just needed to see it and you know
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it creepy?
[SPEAKER_04]: You could argue that it's creepy, but at the same time, it's not like he's, you know, they're in the kitchen.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's not like she's stepping on the shower, you know, if you really want to get technical, you know, I mean, our guy Chris was was was bought in Margo's, uh, panty color, you know, I like pink very much lowest.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's not like he's doing that.
[SPEAKER_04]: He just, he just needed to see for his own eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't, I have less of a problem with that than a lot of people, but if we're talking about what doesn't work,
[SPEAKER_04]: I got a I got a disagree with indeed the twenty-two-year-old Kate Bosworth as low as Lane.
[SPEAKER_04]: It does not work for me one bit I don't think she had any really any really good chemistry with Brandon Ralph and there's there were just so many better options to go with and I get that she probably got this because she was in under the sea with Kevin Spacey the the Bobby Darren biopic
[SPEAKER_04]: I get that that's probably what gets her this this spot, but I just don't think she was right for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's that's my that's probably my main thing other than that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think not having a physically imposing villain for Superman into face off with even if it's like the the muscle like like a lexley third muscle, you know, we could have had like a metallo or we could have had a you know, you could have had anybody honestly.
[SPEAKER_04]: We just need him to just need to throw a couple punches, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then lastly, and Jason, I know you're going to talk about this a lot, so I'll just mention it and let you go up and away with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: The vagueness surrounding whether or not Jason White is or is not his son doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so you're going to have to fill me in.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's what's vague?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like at what point do you go?
[SPEAKER_03]: Is he as you not?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, okay, so the first off, there's a, there's a, there's a prequel comic that DC does that in canon confirms that Jason is in fact Richard son.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a moment where Lewis is in labor and she calls out Jason, I can't believe you, I let you do this to me and it's pretty much established that he is in fact Richard son.
[SPEAKER_04]: On top of that, there's the whole, he's Jason Son, you know, she's, she's really protective of who, who has written out his natural father is, and then we get to the, the ending on the boat, and then it's like a wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's got to be Superman's son.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's something that would have been fleshed out in, in future sequels.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, it's not uncommon that the movies will take some sort of established storyline and give it to you in a different way, though.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that was probably the exact intention was, you know, use this same character where anybody who's reading the comic books knows who he is, knows that he's Richard Sun.
[SPEAKER_03]: and then that makes the reveal at the end of three quarters in.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a fantastic plot point that I wasn't expecting.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you present the kid with asthma and it's sickly little kid who isn't brave enough to do anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you have this brilliant little moment of foreshadowing where Lex Luther is holding the cylinder of kryptonite.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he sees on little Jason's face, this kind of fear that's very subtle.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he asks, he specifically asks her at that point, who's son is this?
[SPEAKER_03]: And she says it like it's, and I didn't catch it when I first watched it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was very nicely surprised when suddenly the kid throws the piano across the room.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so, I mean, I got a, I got a fight back on this one.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm got, I think this was a great idea.
[SPEAKER_03]: There wasn't any ambiguity at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was, we're, we're bait and switching you because you think you know what's going on, but we're going to trick you and that was the whole point.
[SPEAKER_04]: Think about how hostile she is towards Superman.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm talking about Lois once he's back.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, very, she's given off some real jaded X lover vibes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they don't really establish the fact that, you know, the last, this is, again, this is connected.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the, the, the true sequel to Superman II where the last time we saw Louis, she is Margot Kitter is giving a dynamite performance about how she's, how is she going to walk into the planet every day and see Clark and know that she can't be with him and talk to him.
[SPEAKER_04]: He does the, the super smooch.
[SPEAKER_04]: which races her mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, and then it's like, well, then he flies off for five years and she, what happened?
[SPEAKER_04]: Was it mid-eclorians or immaculate conception or, you know, or does she remember that she was with Superman?
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, that's the question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's, I mean, to me, I don't think it's a question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think she thinks it's Richard.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think she believes that Richard is the father.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that once she gets the super kiss at the end of Superman II, all of the memory of what has gone on with Superman becoming human and them having their little trist and the fortress of solitude, it's gone.
[SPEAKER_03]: That means it's not like she's a hussy for like going out and hooking up with a dude a couple of weeks later, which would be fine, not know exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: the timeline of your, of your gestation, I guess.
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, that all makes sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: She thinks it's Richard.
[SPEAKER_03]: She meets Richard shortly after, according to this storyline, shortly after Clark and Superman leave and hooks up because it's a reasonable thing to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think she thinks it's Richard.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that is the case, the if she thinks it's Richard and Andy in this movie, she realizes I have been I have had sex with Superman.
[SPEAKER_05]: We have made a baby together and he's hiding this from me.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've been doped.
[SPEAKER_03]: What kind of what kind of person is Superman in that instance?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, but Superman didn't I mean, she knows the Superman man didn't know that this kid existed either, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: He knew that he had sex with her.
[SPEAKER_03]: He knew that he had sex with her.
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't know that he impregnated her.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, he didn't know, but I think what Jason's saying, he knows his sperm is like super powerful.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was human.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was human that happened.
[SPEAKER_04]: He had lost all of his power when they hooked up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here's the thing, though, D, and I think what Jason's trying to say is,
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't matter if he knows the fact that like if we're going with your with your version of it and she realizes that hey, this must be Superman's son at the end of it, then air go.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've had sex with Superman, but I don't remember that.
[SPEAKER_04]: When did that happen?
[SPEAKER_04]: Where did it happen?
[SPEAKER_03]: Here you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a great storyline for the movie that comes after Superman returns like she's got to figure out what is going on, which I think is a great story.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I would want to know like
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, she's, she has got to go back and rediscover everything that was erased whenever he gave her the super kiss.
[SPEAKER_03]: That seems like for an investigative journalist, a great storyline to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that sounds like the trial of Superman sexual assault.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't want to see that movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, but there's there's two because I needed a definitive answer.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, well, obviously there's one that exists, but there actually isn't.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there are two very fascinating rabbit holes you will find online to go down to that answers the question and make Superman not a creep in the whole whole situation.
[SPEAKER_04]: So theory one,
[SPEAKER_04]: or, you know, conspiracy theory one is that while she was with Superman at the fortress and, you know, he has the machine that, you know, messes up your molecules and, you know, Lex is like, he switched it, turned it on and he was safe in there and we were out here, you know, one theory is that
[SPEAKER_04]: something happened to her DNA that introduced a cryptonean genetic and that she just, it's Richard Sun and she, she's the carrier and she's the reason why this kid Jason has the superpowers.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's a cool one.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Superman is not a creep in that one.
[SPEAKER_04]: The other theory is that the super smooch does erase her memory that Clark Kent is Superman, but it does not erase her memory.
[SPEAKER_04]: that she was with Superman.
[SPEAKER_04]: And in that situation, her whole jaded ex-girlfriend vibe that she's given off of this movie is really justified because he flies off for five years and just leaves her.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she knows that she's pretty much Superman's child.
[SPEAKER_04]: And because she wants to protect Jason and she wants to protect him from doing too much and being too robust, she kind of gives him the inhaler and kind of, there you go.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you need this and you're sick.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not my theory.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just when I found it makes lowest lane a little not the greatest mom, but also she's trying to protect the sun.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, either one of those theories works and doesn't make Superman a creeper.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think this that second theory is dumb.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_03]: She would remember parts of it and not all of it like it doesn't even
[SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't make sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: Supercase is dumb.
[SPEAKER_03]: Supercase is dumb.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's true, but I like this, I like the concept of what happens whenever Superman turns on the machine.
[SPEAKER_03]: If we just think about it this way, if we think it's like an on-off switch, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: For those who have some sort of Kryptonian DNA.
[SPEAKER_03]: So all three of the supervillains get switched off,
[SPEAKER_03]: and the super and the DNA that's inside of Lois gets switched on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, which is how we get past the whole J and Silent Bob.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've known that's not it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the ball rats.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, the more that's problem of Superman blowing her back out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're engaged.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't matter it can't happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's bound to come up.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's impossible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lois could never have Superman's baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think a philopian tubes can handle this sperm?
[SPEAKER_00]: A guaranteed blows a load like a shot right through her back.
[SPEAKER_00]: What about her wound?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it's strong enough to carry his child?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's an alien for Christ's sake.
[SPEAKER_00]: His cryptonian biological makeup is enhanced by Earth's yellow sun.
[SPEAKER_00]: The lowest gets a tan that kid could kick right there were stomach.
[SPEAKER_00]: Only someone like Wonder Woman has a strong enough uterus to carry his kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only way could bang regular chicks with a kryptonite condom.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would kill him.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a superhero scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: He gave her some dormant kryptonian DNA and then in his machine inadvertently because he didn't know flip the switch and turned on the superpower of the DNA.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was not wearing a kryptonite condom, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So, I mean, just to kind of expand, that's my biggest problem is the is the child, okay?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And either, seemingly, I think there are ways you could kind of write your way out of it, like Jeff, you're never talking, there's ways to kind of wiggle around this.
[SPEAKER_05]: And if they could have employed, but they didn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: So either he roofed her with the super kiss, which that makes him a bad guy, which that's not super bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't want that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or,
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's pretty much it seems like he room feeder like he gave her the super kiss.
[SPEAKER_05]: She became pregnant.
[SPEAKER_05]: He erased her memory.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now she's like holy crap.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just I have a kid who's super what the heck have it.
[SPEAKER_05]: What the heck.
[SPEAKER_03]: So so I understand that Superman obviously has extra vision.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: She asked him or, you know, when she's smoking and he wants to check for lung cancer, he can do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But here's what has to happen for him to be a creep in this.
[SPEAKER_03]: He has to know that he has impregnated her.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the had sex in the seventies, nobody was wearing condoms back then.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think you needy one, but keep going.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, still.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, this is, this is the leftover, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: But sailors, babe.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so in order for him to know that he had impregnated her, he would have had to, I mean, he would have to really analyze at the microscopic level what's going on in her ovaries, which I think would make him even more of a creep.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think he knows.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, from the movie, it's obvious he doesn't know or he would have
[SPEAKER_03]: It would have been more, I mean, you watch his behavior.
[SPEAKER_03]: He has shocked to figure out that this is his son and not Richards.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like in the movie, he's shocked.
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no way he knew.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, he had sex with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course, but dude, are you telling me you got a girl pregnant every time you had sex with her?
[SPEAKER_03]: He's Kryptonian.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't know what will happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's the thing that's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're saying he had to know because he had sex with her.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, that's not what happens.
[SPEAKER_03]: People have sex and they don't get pregnant.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no reason for them to automatically think that he did.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'd like though.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's it's irresponsible.
[SPEAKER_05]: In my opinion, it's irresponsible for a God to have sex with a mortal and be like, ah, we did.
[SPEAKER_05]: See you later, I'm out of here for five years.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the race in your mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: The one thing about Superman, he can't be completely all powerful.
[SPEAKER_04]: He has to have some kind of weakness.
[SPEAKER_04]: And clearly, the weakness is his pullout game.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's, that's where I'm at with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: He thought he was good.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, slip one past the goal either.
[SPEAKER_04]: That happens.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if I'm, if I'm really being analytical about this, this is the first time Superman's ever had sex.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: What does he know?
[SPEAKER_05]: That's even more responsible than, you know, just got to stay around, just make sure everything's cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, instead of taking off for five years, dead be.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I have moral issues with this.
[SPEAKER_05]: But like you said, Dee, he was, he had given away his superpowers at that time, which brings up another issue.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's continuity issues, I think, between the three movies and this movie.
[SPEAKER_05]: So he was mortal, but yet Jason has superpowers.
[SPEAKER_05]: And okay, we can kind of explain that away that, you know, the DNA didn't change whatever, you know, I don't really care.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I wanted to ask you, Judge Dee, how does Lex Luther get out of jail?
[SPEAKER_05]: What the heck is up with that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's interesting that you say that, okay?
[SPEAKER_03]: So, eighty six.
[SPEAKER_03]: What was the, the, um, Superman Returns came out in eighty seven, correct?
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Superman for the question.
[SPEAKER_03]: Two thousand six.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, sorry, yeah, that's what I meant.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, yes, sorry, Superman for the question piece comes out in eighty seven, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, if we fudge a little bit and say that they filmed it in eighty six, right, it takes place in eighty six.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Last thing that he says to Luther is CU in twenty in the math.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: I never thought about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But also, he didn't get life in prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: He got a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: He got twenty years.
[SPEAKER_03]: But after twenty years, he's out.
[SPEAKER_03]: He knows the way to get money because his fortune's gone.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, but at the end of Superman one, beginning of Superman two, we know that he gets life plus twenty five, because remember when he's in the laundry asking, what does the greatest criminal mind get?
[SPEAKER_04]: The guards like life plus twenty five, Luther, I think what we're dealing with and they kind of drop this in the movie, Superman returns.
[SPEAKER_04]: He appeals Superman's not there to be the star witness and say this is what happened.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And because of that, do process, right judge graves?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you go through the appeal process.
[SPEAKER_03]: Superman is disappeared to go try to find Krypton, which is a, that is a little weird.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I don't know what's going on with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I understand that it's got some relevance in the comic book timeline, but they, they didn't flesh that out as much as they should have in the movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: They should have done a little bit better.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we get that little blurb at the beginning.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, hey, three Kryptonians just showed up.
[SPEAKER_04]: They were, but maybe there's others out there that are decent like me.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you go on a, you go on a way mission.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_03]: He they actually pointed out there.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was no one there to fight against his parole or his appeal or whatever it might have been.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't pay that close attention to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's mock her out to say anything and give an account.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she's in a complex what are you going to do?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I do agree, Jeff Kate Bosworth, her age doesn't match up.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, she's twenty two when she films this five years before she'd be seventeen.
[SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't even take an account.
[SPEAKER_05]: The time it would take to get to the daily planet beat reporter position.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think
[SPEAKER_04]: If you want to believe Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane, then you have to assume she probably dated either Harold Wormser from Lambda Lambda or Doogie Houser, because they were all like eleven years old with their in college.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if I could side with D on just one thing, Kate Bosworth, I think she's a great actress.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think she's it's not that she's doing a bad job here.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just that she's not believable because even though she's twenty two, she could still probably play like a high school senior in a TV movie the week.
[SPEAKER_04]: She just looks too young.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's that's my main hang up with her.
[SPEAKER_04]: She just doesn't look right for the role.
[SPEAKER_03]: She is better.
[SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, I got to say, I didn't know that she was so young when she played the part, didn't have a problem with the fact that she looked young.
[SPEAKER_03]: He looked young.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how old he was, but they both looked young because this is, you know, this is the, not the reboot, but like we're, we're changing things up and we gotta, we gotta bring, I mean, because we literally are, we're talking about something that's twenty years gone by being only five years.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you can't, you can't have them at the age that they were then.
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't make any sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: And to have Kate playing somebody that's five to ten years older than she actually is, I mean, if she's, if she's twenty nine, then it's not weird anymore, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's twenty four.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I buy it.
[SPEAKER_04]: If she's twenty nine, twenty eight, yeah, I'm in.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a twenty two year old play at twenty nine year old is not out of the realm of facability at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not if they can look twenty nine.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she looks more nine than twenty nine.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, that's just, she just looks like a kid running around the movie.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there are a lot of people that have problems with her age, but where I think one of the thing, the major things that we're not really talking about is that there's not enough action in this movie.
[SPEAKER_05]: No.
[SPEAKER_05]: The airplane sequence is incredible.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is so awesome.
[SPEAKER_05]: Literally, I'm watching this going in the theater.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, man, if this movie continues on from here, this will be the best Superman movie I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_05]: And little duh, I know, but that was the last action sequence the entire movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's hold on.
[SPEAKER_04]: We get the fun, you know, Kitty,
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, doing the whole crazy cars out of control where we get the nod of the comet cover.
[SPEAKER_04]: We get Superman.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, Superman walking into a gatling gun of fifty caliber bullets and then taking the shot.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's that's pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: you have the entire boat sequence where I mean I realize Superman isn't involved until he sweeps in to save the day like he's supposed to do but that's intense and if you go back to the first movie there weren't that many I mean there were about as many of those scenes like the the comparison I would make is the airplane scene and the first one is more like the helicopter I mean the airplane scene in returns is more like the helicopter scene in the first one although way better
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the, where he's chasing the rockets at the end of the first one is more akin to his, I mean, number one, he's getting beat up because he's experienced the kryptonite.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, talked about not having bad guys, but I mean, having all of all three of the henchmen beat in the crap out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they were wailing on him.
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you laying on him?
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he gets stabbed.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this is all pretty intense stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you have the entire sequence with the boat where it looks like they're like father, son, or, you know, supposed to son.
[SPEAKER_03]: And all are all going down after a pretty intense kidnapping scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think probably pushing too hard on this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, every movie doesn't have to be X-Men or a Marvel movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Superman one wasn't and I don't think that Superman returns had to be to be a great movie.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, it did have to be to get a sequel apparently.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just didn't I don't find the in sequence action packed at all.
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't find this movie action packed at all.
[SPEAKER_05]: I that one scene was
[SPEAKER_05]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then the rest of it was kind of a snooze.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then one more thing that I had a problem with, I know he's mentioned it so far.
[SPEAKER_05]: I personally have a problem with it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And if we're going with the continuity of the Reeves movies, when Luther puts that little chain around his neck with a little thing equipped tonight, he cannot swim.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like he can't do anything.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is killing him.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yet somehow in this movie, he lifts a five thousand ton piece of
[SPEAKER_05]: Kryptonite and launches it into space.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not okay with that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Not to mention he had just been stabbed and beaten up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but there were hundreds of tons of regular earth in between him and the Kryptonite stuff above him, like hundreds of tons of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: In the original Superman, he has no ill effects until Lex Luther opens the lid to the box.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: He is totally fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Totally powerful.
[SPEAKER_03]: Feet away from this stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's power is useless against him with just a tiny little lead lead.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: He lives a giant rock of Kryptonite though.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to be a nerd and just say I'm with you Jason, but I'll be a nerd and say like because it became a thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: It became new Krypton in the comic books.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm okay with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can do that.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I know the movies and the comic books don't have to run side by side, but I can give you a pass on this one.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're branching.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I need a more action.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did it need any more action?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: The movie didn't need more action.
[SPEAKER_03]: It did not.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't have, I would have objected if it did, but I don't think that it needed more.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am of the school that you give doses of action sparse out throughout a movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't give me action after action after action.
[SPEAKER_03]: When you do that, you get
[SPEAKER_03]: skywalker rises or whatever the crap that movie was where it is one hundred percent action from beginning of the movie to the end of the movie and I'm exhausted and uninterested and it's just stupid because you've just you've turned up the volume to eleven for the entire movie I don't want that give me give me loud and quiet loud and quiet and they gave me plenty of nice loud scenes inter mixed with good story this is a well-made movie
[SPEAKER_05]: I agree it's a well-made movie, but I do have issues.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so I just have a question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't actually dive down this rabbit hole, but there are a couple of slightly inappropriate questions that I have for you guys to note.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to know if you know the answers to these.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is our, this is our specialty.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I had heard rumors and this one I don't even really care.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had heard rumors that there was some sort of action to run.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not even talking about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: What I heard was that Superman was packing at his to say Brandon Roth was packing and they had to go in and digitally reduce the size of his cryptonian package.
[SPEAKER_03]: There were some issues with costuming
[SPEAKER_04]: He looked early on.
[SPEAKER_04]: He looked a little too super.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they needed to, if memory serves, they had to, you know, because the first time we didn't mention this earlier, but the costume is freaking gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's moving.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a fantastic costume.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think they needed to suppress areas of his physique for it not to be
[SPEAKER_03]: So super.
[SPEAKER_03]: They had to give him, they had to give him like a ballerine, a cod piece or something like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Something like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Make it more like a formerly smooth.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a super mendies.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's been tripped in nine hands.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, God bless him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good for him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've got one more issue.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wanted to bring up.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like I'm the only one really harping on this stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: But when Luther goes to the fortress of solitude, number one, he gets in with basically no issues.
[SPEAKER_05]: Number two, when he goes in, all the crystals are there, all the information is there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wasn't that all destroyed in Superman, too?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like when Clark went back to the fortress to try and like reach out to his dad, you know, he's calling out father father and he happens to find that one crystal that lowest hit under a person, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: Green one, the one that, yeah, heard of the whole process in the first place.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do we repair crystals?
[SPEAKER_04]: If I could quote D, who was quoting Harrison Ford, I think that kind of movie kid.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, there was a subtle nod to the fact that he had been there before because Kitty says, yeah, Lex, it's like you've been here before.
[SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you got to think, like, yeah, Superman's gonna leave the door unlocked because he assumes that Luther, the only person that knows how to get there, is in prison for the rest of his life.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, if he had gone into, if Lex had said, you know, there's some plutonians kind of buried back in here that nobody ever finished off.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe we could resurrect these guys.
[SPEAKER_05]: That would have been cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he was from the TV version where they went to jail instead.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the North Pole police arrested them, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And all right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Anything else you got to get off your chest on this one?
[SPEAKER_03]: So I want to I want to just briefly talk about this because I know that Jeff loves this movie because he told us before we get started that he's seen it three times and I know that Jason's opinion of it is probably in the middle of Jeff and I
[SPEAKER_03]: because I do not sure Jeff's opinion on this.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I want to give a warning to everybody else.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you haven't seen the new James Gun Superman and you don't want spoilers, some might leak out in like the next five minutes, but we we shouldn't go on too long about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But can you tell me why you love this new Superman movie, Jeff?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I went into it with very low expectations.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think that definitely helped me.
[SPEAKER_04]: The whole year leading up
[SPEAKER_04]: to its release.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was on record saying the suit doesn't look good.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I was I was picking it apart, but I also was like the more, you know, the first teaser was like, we'll see.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not, I still just don't know yet, but I think David Corden's what did a fantastic job in the role.
[SPEAKER_04]: Definitely think we had an upgrade when it comes to lowest lane.
[SPEAKER_04]: I really enjoyed it was a little bloated because of the justice game and everything going on in the pocket universe maybe but I trust I trust in James gun if anyone can do like a big ensemble movie it's got to be James gun so
[SPEAKER_04]: Ultimately, you know, I love the fact that they didn't use the exact John Williams score, but they took it in like John Murphy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Basically, you need a John.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you're going to do a Superman theme, I think.
[SPEAKER_04]: But John Murphy's score that heavily leaned on John Williams, I absolutely love that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't care what anyone says.
[SPEAKER_04]: Every scene with crypto put a big smile on my face.
[SPEAKER_04]: I immediately wanted to go out and get a dog, a white dog, put a red cape on him.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just fun.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm rambling, but I'll say this, that close it out.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like when I left the theater, I felt that sense of hope.
[SPEAKER_06]: What's the standpoint?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not an S. I'm my world, it means hope.
[SPEAKER_04]: just that positivity.
[SPEAKER_04]: I left with a big smile on my face and as I looked around, everyone had a big smile on their face.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a feel good movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think we were ready for it after the dark, you know, and listen, I love Henry Cavill's Superman.
[SPEAKER_04]: They absolutely love it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I just was ready to get some some bright positive hopeful Superman stuff going again.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's why I liked it so much.
[SPEAKER_04]: And again, like I've seen it three times in the theaters.
[SPEAKER_04]: Each time I've walked away, just feeling good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like there's pet in my step.
[SPEAKER_04]: When I walk out of the theater, having seen it, and Lex Luther, Nicholas Holtz, Lex Luther, fantastic, absolutely fantastic.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's a quick, you know, he has that moment where he's kind of saying, you know, if you've seen it, you know, Superman, he's
[SPEAKER_04]: flying around this stupid, stupid cape and this, you know, he's, he's really picking him apart.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I like that Kevin Spacey has a similar line in this movie to what Nicholas Holt has, because at the beginning, you know, I think he says something along lines of, uh, gods or selfish beings who, you know, they fly around a little red cape so they don't share the power, you know, and he goes gene hackmen us because he's like, I want to give power to the people, but I want my cut, so.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like that there was a subtle connective tissue between Nicholas Holden, Kevin Spacey, too.
[SPEAKER_05]: Just love you, not like it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry with you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell me what your thoughts were on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I agree with Jeff.
[SPEAKER_05]: I enjoyed the brightness, the colorfulness.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought the kind of cookie characters, the green lantern people and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought they were brought in.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought Superman had a more interesting personality.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think he, you know, I like my big blue boy scout.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like him very, very, you know, I wanted to drink milk and you know,
[SPEAKER_05]: not Ruby people and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: But he was cool and he was nice.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was I liked I liked his portrayal David Cornish with a trail.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought was good.
[SPEAKER_05]: I had a good time.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I thought it was fun.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I didn't blow my socks off, but I had a good time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you love Superman?
[SPEAKER_04]: So what
[SPEAKER_04]: What didn't you take away from this?
[SPEAKER_04]: What didn't do it for you?
[SPEAKER_03]: There were a whole lot of things that I didn't like about this.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I had a similar perspective on it as you, whenever I first started when I first saw the costume, I was just like, how does he not have a costume that fits?
[SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't even make any sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the very first advertisement
[SPEAKER_03]: was with crypto the dog and I was like a CGI dog really but then as I had people come into my office because I literally have I have like a ten-foot Superman painting on my wall and they're like have you seen the movie and I'm like no and they're like I can't believe you haven't seen it yet you're the Superman guy and I'm like yeah okay I'm sure I'll probably I'll probably watch it eventually and they're like oh it's my favorite one and I had about three different people tell me was their favorite one and I was like oh
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I love guardians of the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Watch it again with my kid last night.
[SPEAKER_03]: Love it then too.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I thought maybe James gun can pull this thing off.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I saw it, I had no problems with his costume.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had no problems with crypto.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah, I could tell it was CGI, but yes, he was fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was a great addition to the movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: My problem was with this ridiculous storyline that they had where Lex Luther has the capacity
[SPEAKER_03]: to create a pocket universe.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he gives a fly and flip about what Superman is doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the stuff with the land, he gets half of the Middle East country or whatever that's going to be the Luther thing is all a distraction and that whole war that he's creating is all just a distraction.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just, I was just like,
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
[SPEAKER_03]: This doesn't make any sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I understand that in the original Superman, we have Superman fly backwards around the earth and somehow scientifically that causes time to reverse.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me know that doesn't make any sense time-wise, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like doesn't make any sense science-wise.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody, nobody really did think that at the time, but even back then, we were a lot less educated about our science when it came to movies, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Science has become a integral part of all of these superhero movies and multiverses and all of these other things has become very important.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so when you do this part, when you decide to go there in a Superman movie and say, we've created a pocket universe that you can get through through a portal
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you create something called a proton river that flows into a black hole that is disregards anything, anybody with a basic science education knows.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the guys are getting swimming in a proton.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, what is that?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's stupid.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just, and the black hole experiences makes no scientific sense at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's unnecessary.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, why are you doing all of this stuff?
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't make any sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: Give me the story where we that we could have had in Superman four where he does create and a clone Superman that is the one competitor against Superman and give me the reveal at the end.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that could have worked very well and you didn't need all of this other bull crap about the pocket universe.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, guys, something that splits the world in half.
[SPEAKER_03]: as as as the universe is dividing can be reversed with the flip of a switch.
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you kidding me?
[SPEAKER_03]: This is stupid.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I walked out of the theater going, and the more I thought about it, I was just like, this is just not a good movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: And throw on top of that this dumb video game idea of Lex Luther going, L. seven, M. three.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the guy's too stupid to speak, but he has a litany of him, you know, alphabet and numerical codes memorized and can enact them as though it's instantaneously in his mind as fast as Superman is, who is as fast as flashes?
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
[SPEAKER_03]: This is all just stupid.
[SPEAKER_03]: Make him smart enough to fight him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't make him stupid, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Make him smart enough to fight on his own.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not this video game controlled weird BS.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why I didn't like it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: I will concede.
[SPEAKER_04]: that we didn't need the Mortal Kombat combo hit karate chip stuff happening, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think we didn't need a pocket universe.
[SPEAKER_04]: You easily could have had, you know, Superman history.
[SPEAKER_04]: We know there's a Bell Reef Supermax prison.
[SPEAKER_04]: We know there's Star Labs.
[SPEAKER_04]: You could have had Luther could have had like a compound.
[SPEAKER_04]: where he's holding these people without it being a pocket universe.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'll give you, I will, I will can see that point too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just to pile on, I realized that James gun went through a small moment where he got canceled for five minutes himself, but to have everybody reveres Superman.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in three seconds from the time that the new story breaks that his parents said something inappropriate to him,
[SPEAKER_03]: They're throwing cans at him and booing him and sending the army out to get him.
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, dice, a little, let's give the guy a little credit.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's been saving your life for the last thirty years.
[SPEAKER_03]: And one little bad thing is mom and dad said, and now he's canceled.
[SPEAKER_03]: You hate him if I can counter.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like the counter.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because Jason, I think maybe I told you this because I know you said you had a problem with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Think about like this in our in our world, in our reality, we love and adore Arnold Schwarzenegger.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe not as Mr. Freeze as we learned last last week.
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, Mr. Olympia, the presidential physical fitness test, he's the terminator, he's coding.
[SPEAKER_04]: We love Arnold, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: if in this day and age with social media and everyone finding out everything within minutes of it happening if something was released right now that Arnold's father was was a Nazi because it you know think about it he that was time
[SPEAKER_04]: It's timely.
[SPEAKER_04]: If photos were released right now, Arnold's family in Nazi uniforms, or anything like that, people would get really, really negative towards Arnold, I think.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then he would have to have his moment where he says, hey, I'm shocked.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't realize it myself.
[SPEAKER_04]: I condemn it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not my father.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we would slowly be one back over, kind of like how Superman, once we realize what Durell's message is, and everyone turns on him,
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, then he's got, he's got it on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's got to take responsibility and then he slowly gets to when the people back over.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I kind of feel like he's like a situation like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: By the way, I completely saw that plot point coming as soon as I heard that the message was garbled.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh, yeah, I know it's going to happen here.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was, I was instantaneously like, I really don't want them to do what I'm very confident they're going to do because it completely furnishes Jarrell like what the heck, what are you doing to to my to my father of Superman?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, don't agree with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I don't agree with it, but they did it on smallville.
[SPEAKER_04]: They've done it in the comics before.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't mean I have to like it though.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm with you on that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let me ask you guys this to kind of bear us back on on topic here.
[SPEAKER_05]: Did singer and Ralph deserve a sequel?
[SPEAKER_04]: I said yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you talking about the sequel titled Superman Man of Steel that was supposed to be shooting in two thousand nine?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Your damn right they deserve to have it.
[SPEAKER_04]: We've been an amazing film.
[SPEAKER_04]: Bryan Singer himself said what we did with Superman Returns is Star Trek The Motion Picture.
[SPEAKER_04]: What we're going to do next is Wrath of Con.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was he was promising a lot more action.
[SPEAKER_04]: We were going to have Brainiac.
[SPEAKER_04]: coming to town, specifically to go after Jason.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was like a subplot where he wanted to basically inherit like take over Jason's body as a host.
[SPEAKER_04]: We had Mattallow who was going to be like the secondary villain to have a slug fest with Superman.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it was going to be awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: It should have, it would have been awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: If Warner Brothers would have just let him go with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, their excuse was, yeah, it was successful, but it didn't make five hundred million dollars.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he was on record, it made four hundred million.
[SPEAKER_04]: How much more success do you need?
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you got keep in mind, like the writer strike happens at that time.
[SPEAKER_04]: That kicks the movie down a couple more years.
[SPEAKER_04]: And before you know it, the studios are looking at him going, hey, you know what we like about your sequel?
[SPEAKER_04]: We like the title.
[SPEAKER_04]: We like man steel.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to keep that and we're just going to do a clean slate reboot.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what happens.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it's criminal because this movie, I do think there's a case to be made that it is like start trick the mushroom picture that's it's not as juiced up as I want it to be.
[SPEAKER_05]: There are some things that I didn't like about it, but it's so skillfully made and had so much potential to really ramp into something great.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wish they would have
[SPEAKER_05]: let him had his sequel and just to see what we would have gotten.
[SPEAKER_05]: I did enjoy the Henry Caval movies, but man, I really wish I could have seen what they would have done given a chance for the sequel to this movie.
[SPEAKER_05]: And here's the thing about Brennan Ralph.
[SPEAKER_04]: Even now, he looks fantastic in the suit.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you watch, if you watch like the Arrowverse, like the CW shows, they did that whole crisis on, of infinite universes where he got to play the kingdom come version of Superman.
[SPEAKER_04]: He looks dynamite in the suit.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was and is a great Superman in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_05]: By the way, this movie paid more money than Batman begins.
[SPEAKER_05]: At the time, it was the second largest grossing DC comic movie behind Batman.
[SPEAKER_05]: Batman ain't it?
[SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_05]: The problem I think is that all of the crap before it was held against it, budget wise.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's an important Nick Cage movie that fell flat, the McGee movie that fell flat, the Britt Ratner movie that fell flat,
[SPEAKER_04]: All that Smith movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's that?
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a Kevin Smith movie also Kevin Smith movie, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Would John Peters want to giant spiders or whatever?
[SPEAKER_05]: All that was held against this movie's budget, which I think is really unfair, but you know, it is what it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the nice thing about the injustice that this movie has is the same nice thing about Batman and Robin is that without them turning the pulling the plug because of how it performed, whether they did it rightly or wrongly, we wouldn't have had man of steel with Henry Caval, which I would, I would, we would be lost without the tornado that leveled the buildings again.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got a quick question for you, all right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So now I have a kind of idea of where you guys are going to go on this, but if you're going to rank them, all right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You're going to rank these movies, you're ready.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So obviously we've got, we've got Superman Returns, and we've got Batman and Robin, but throw into the mix, Jos Wheaton's Justice League, and the new Superman movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's your, what's your ranking from best to worst?
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So then in that case, buried hundreds of feet below the feet of Josh Weedon's Justice League would be Batman and Robin.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then above it, Superman returns and then above that Superman.
[SPEAKER_04]: The news, the twenty twenty five Superman is what I would do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Jason.
[SPEAKER_03]: Same exact same as Jeff.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I would put, I put Superman returns on the top of this list.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would put, even though I obviously had a lot of dislike for it, I would put Superman, the new Superman in second place.
[SPEAKER_03]: There were features of the movie that I did enjoy.
[SPEAKER_03]: It didn't make me angry until after I had time to really think it all through.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it must have done something right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hate to say this, but I said it the last episode, so you know that's true.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd rather watch Batman and Robin again before I ever watch that just weed and piece of crap.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't really, well yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw it on, it was on it like the gym.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it was on the TV at the gym and it was the part where Superman has just come back to life and I suffered through watching all of their reactions and them talking for like
[SPEAKER_03]: three freaking minutes of unnecessary to wait for the one one redeeming feature of the whole movie where Flash takes off as he's got all of the rest of the guys in his hands and Flash is running along and as he's running at super speed and everything else is slow you see Superman's eyes dart around the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like that's the best part of this whole movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't want to see any of it ever again.
[SPEAKER_04]: I cannot agree with you more because that is such a menacing look he gives and the reaction shot that that the flash has makes it you know he's doing that crazy you know the whole
[SPEAKER_04]: Great moment.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the best moment of that whole movie I think.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, before we get to our final judgment, I asked our good friend and Superman expert, Mr. John Reed to weigh in with his final judgment on these two movies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, this is John Reed from the thirty something movie podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been asked by my good buddies D and Jason from the Shirley.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't be serious podcast to render a final judgment and share my thoughts on Superman returns from two thousand six versus Batman and Robin from nineteen ninety seven.
[SPEAKER_01]: So here we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still enjoy Superman Returns even with all the criticisms.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like it's trying to honor the Donner movies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some ways it does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ralph really shines.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's Clark Kent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it does a good job there.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got that shy awkwardness down perfectly.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's Superman though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Little more brooding and distant than inspiring, which doesn't always work for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kevin Spacey's Lex Luther has the right energy, but too much of his dialogue feels like it was copypasted straight from the Donner movies.
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing I do appreciate is that it introduces the idea that maybe Superman isn't really the last son of Krypton.
[SPEAKER_01]: Story starts with him coming back from that five-year trip to reconnect with his heritage, which is a cool angle, but it doesn't quite have the connective tissue to make it a solid storyline.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish they had done more with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then there's that awkward little piece from Superman too, where he race low as his memory.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just a few weeks later, she's gonna end up pregnant with his super child.
[SPEAKER_01]: Feels like it deserves a little bit more than just, hey, don't look behind the curtain kind of a deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: That said, the airplane rescue scene, one of my favorite Superman moments in any movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: That sequence captures the awe, the power, the heart of Superman in a way that a few other scenes ever have.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Batman and Robin from nineteen ninety seven on the other hand is just a mess.
[SPEAKER_01]: I find it to be insulting as a comic book fan.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's campy without the excuse of being from the nineteen sixties when camp was kind of expected.
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead, you get knee on suits, ice skates on the batmobile and villains who are more embarrassing than fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Swordsnaker's Mr. Freeze is just endless ice puns.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uma Thurman hams it up as ivy and bane.
[SPEAKER_01]: a really great villain in the comics that I always really enjoyed reduced to a grunting sidekick.
[SPEAKER_01]: So even the heroes come off stiff and awkward in this one.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not charming camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is cringe camp as the kids say.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this one to me, almost the height of
[SPEAKER_01]: insulting when it comes to comic book movies.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, my final judgment Superman Returns may be divisive, but at least it has some sincerity.
[SPEAKER_01]: It has some ambition and it has a few moments of genuine greatness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Batman and Robin is just hollow.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just spectacle.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, after titling the last movie Batman forever, I wish they would have titled this one Batman Never.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Superman Returns gets my vote.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, well, we onto final judgment between Batman and Robin and Superman Returns.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think we kind of break tipped our hands on that already.
[SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're up, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: We can see this will come in.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, Superman returns is a great movie and not worthy of any of the criticism that it's received Batman and Robin.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a bad bad choice and I'm glad I didn't watch it in the nineties because it probably would have been mad at it and the way it turned out it was kind of like last action hero.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to watch it, no one that everybody hated it, and that it was a total zig at the point he should have definitely zagged.
[SPEAKER_03]: Go light when you should have gone dark.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I got to, I got to go, okay, well, I'm just watching, I'm watching the nineteen sixty-six Batman Robin, and it's gonna be fun for that reason.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, it's, but it's still not a good, it's not a good movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: If it was on, I wouldn't turn it off if I was doing other stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: I suppose how about that?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, man.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's ways, okay Jeff, helps out here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Listen, you don't need x-ray vision to see which one's the better movie here.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say that Superman Returns, it's a good film, it really is.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you guys have the what what the heck happened series has like that that sister series, the is it worth the rewatch?
[SPEAKER_04]: I kind of feel like Superman Returns could almost
[SPEAKER_04]: jump onto that episode series.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's Superman Returns without a doubt.
[SPEAKER_04]: The only way that I really could watch Batman and Robin again is if Supergirl gave me a super smooch and I forgot that I had seen it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'll watch it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It just feels off the rubber lips.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nope, that movie sucks still.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, well, I'm gonna make it a trifecta.
[SPEAKER_05]: Superman returns is way, way better than Batman and Robin.
[SPEAKER_05]: Batman and Robin took me four tries to get through it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was a piece of crap in ninety seven.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a piece of crap now.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a total turd.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is not even worth watching.
[SPEAKER_05]: I do think it is a movie that should be appreciated because it was the tornado that leveled the buildings that
[SPEAKER_05]: we then built the Marvel Universe on and, well, that stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: Superman returns, I think I believe that I'm the one who has the most problems with it, but I don't know if it's the sins of Superman, too.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're coming back to bite me a little bit, but the idea that Lois got super kissed and somehow has a child and I have a problem with all how all of that went down.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's not my big blue voice gap, but for this matchup, Superman returns is a skillfully
[SPEAKER_05]: beautifully made movie, it's just got a few chunks in the armor in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really am very happy that you, like you, the needle has moved for you significantly on Superman Returns.
[SPEAKER_03]: It has.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did not feel this way when until we did this rewatch, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: I visited it since the movie theater.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, hey, Dee.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Can I try to move the needle for you?
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: One last time with Lois Lane.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me give you three age-appropriate talented actresses in
[SPEAKER_04]: that we could have had if Kate Bosworth had not done the Kevin Spacey movie with him prior.
[SPEAKER_04]: And let me see if what if you think any of these three ladies is a better fit.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to give you Kristen Ritter who you would know her as Jessica Jones and the current MCU.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll give you Anne Hathaway.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then lastly, I'll give you Allison Brie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Any of those three ladies?
[SPEAKER_03]: Allison Brie is she the what was she on like that?
[SPEAKER_03]: What was the show worth with the witches?
[SPEAKER_03]: What was that call?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, um, um, she played any on community current wife to day Franco.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you're gonna have to look her up.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I think you look her up and you're gonna get that's loss.
[SPEAKER_04]: Jeff, what do you guys got coming up on your next episodes?
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, I hope you guys and the listeners are ready for some football because we are kicking off week one of the NFL's return with a little movie called The Replacements, a film by Howard Deutsch.
[SPEAKER_04]: You where we got coming next, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: okay so we've got we've got one of our very special episodes coming up next it's one of our top five episodes we're picking the top five songs of nineteen eighty a unique year in the history of music a transition year if you will but there were still some bangers out there and i'm excited to talk to you about those you'll tell me your five i'll tell you my five and we'll
[SPEAKER_03]: try to guess what they are.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then after that, we have comparison of a couple of great albums, Chicago, Seventeen versus Survivor, Vidal Science, both of them mega hits, excited to compare these two bands.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's going to be a great episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll see you guys back here next week.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks, Jeff.
[SPEAKER_05]: Appreciate you guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you guys are watching on our YouTube channel,
[SPEAKER_03]: We're like three people away from having five hundred subscribers.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you would hit that subscribe button, you could be the five hundred subscriber and when mountains and piles of our gratitude and respect.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: We will see you back here next week.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess thanks Jeff.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope you guys and the listeners are ready for some football because we are kicking off week one.
[SPEAKER_04]: of the NFL's return with a little movie called The Replacements, a film by Howard Deutsch.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mr. Leah Thompson, I believe, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Wait, isn't he married to Leah Thompson?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Two next week, we'll let you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: That might be one of the three bits of trivia we talk about.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's funny.