E330 – The World’s First Dog Cookbook | Easy, Healthy DIY Meals Your Dog Will LOVE! A Dogs Table @thecedlife

[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on everybody?
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the NoBad Dogs podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we get into this incredible incredible podcast with the authors of this amazing book.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to let you guys know we have a brand new product.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the everyday NoBad Dog bio thing collar comes in our yellow, our oranges red and our black small medium large just want to let you guys know they just dropped literally today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get them why you can link in the description and enjoy this podcast guys with these.
[SPEAKER_00]: incredible people, creative, and passionate people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy!
[SPEAKER_00]: So guys, I have to ask like, what was the inspiration and how did you think of, I'm gonna start a cookbook for a dog because as I'm looking for this, because this isn't just a normal cookbook.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is like, I would eat every single thing off this front page of this cookbook.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what was the inspiration behind this?
[SPEAKER_00]: And how did you guys get started on this whole journey?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was totally unexpected when when we first got sadric I was just going to feed him kibble and I didn't really want to think too much about it, which is strange because at the time we were both super health conscious ourselves, you know, making sure that we're eating whole foods all the time, but
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of didn't want to really think about cooking for a sad trick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, no, I don't want to get into this mess.
[SPEAKER_01]: But as soon as he came home, he had tummy issues as a little puppy.
[SPEAKER_01]: His whole litter was on antibiotics.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he came home and he wasn't doing well in the cable, he's having diarrhea, he was thrown up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we made him an egg.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he loved the egg.
[SPEAKER_01]: He loved the egg, he did really well in the egg.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I guess we are gonna have to start cooking for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was pretty funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: I started cooking for my family dogs about 20 years ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also tried lots of stuff, you know, feeding raw, and then making a cooked meal,
[SPEAKER_02]: And so when we got said right, I suggested to her, hey, maybe we should try cooking for said right, and she was like, absolutely not, no way.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not doing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because when I was, I mean, years back, I'd also try cooking for my childhood dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so we both had kind of tried stuff in the past like that, but it was a huge mess back then.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I was kind of like, I don't really want to know if I want to do that again.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we started cooking for Cedric and, um, it was, it was actually great immediately.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: We both love to cook and the rest is history.
[SPEAKER_01]: The rest is history.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess, um, the, the fun, the funny thing is, you know, uh,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's easy to assist for people to suspend disbelief.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like when you go to a movie, you don't think of it as light on a screen, you think of it as like you're actually engulfed in the story.
[SPEAKER_02]: And kind of the same is true for dog foods.
[SPEAKER_02]: People suspend disbelief for some strange reason.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they believe that this processed food is better than real foods, which is totally nonsensical, but yeah, most people still believe that to be true, which is just wild.
[SPEAKER_02]: by you we also know that yeah and I was just going to say like
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, people who are listening and in watching, I think it's also, it's just all they know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not even that they're making a decision to say, I want to feed ultra process food, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost, this is what we've done forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw my mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's, that's why I'm so excited to talk to you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: So sorry to interrupt.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to like throw that caveat because I think a lot of people get, you know, when I post things about what I feed my dogs, people get offended almost where they're
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, you know, and it's like, you know, even if you don't want to feed raw or whatever, you guys have, I mean, you started off with an egg, so, so, so keep going, start in a wrap, but keep going down this path, because I think it's, it's really good to touch on, but I just wanted to say that because,
[SPEAKER_00]: What what what so many people don't realize is is just it's the norm just what we've done for I mean you guys are you guys in a bunch of other people That I talk to our trailblazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean the first of your kind are like hey my dog stomach is getting upset from kibble I'm gonna do it right right Right Yes, so I I started making little meals for him and
[SPEAKER_01]: like pancakes and cute things like that and just sharing that online.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it kind of took off people really like seeing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, some people like seeing it, other people were like, oh my god, you know, what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna kill them.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna kill them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh my gosh, you don't get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we started looking into,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the research, the dog nutrition really heavily.
[SPEAKER_01]: We really leaned into fully all the way and we're just like, you know what, we're going to do this thing and see what value we can add here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing is that not only did we not want to hurt our own pets,
[SPEAKER_02]: But if we're going to have a little platform at the time, we're thinking people are going to follow what we do or at least try it on their own.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we wanted to make sure that we covered all to research bases to make sure that we weren't going to harm any dogs.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what came out was actually really, really eye-opening.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't realize at the time how bad some of these things
[SPEAKER_02]: kill manufacturers and dog who manufacturers are bad, for sure, there's good ones and reputable ones.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what's a loud?
[SPEAKER_02]: What's monitored?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the wild west.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even in human supplements, we had this company that we were going to make a large purchase from.
[SPEAKER_02]: We tested their goods.
[SPEAKER_02]: and it came back as I told the counterfeit.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is for human consumption, it's a human supplement.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this happens all the time, even for people, you can think what the standards are for animals.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's crazy out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: What was, so can you say what that supplement?
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to say the company, but can you go into that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what supplement was it?
[SPEAKER_00]: What were you guys acquiring it for?
[SPEAKER_00]: And how was it, when you say fraudulent or like,
[SPEAKER_02]: was it just like if you said hey this is vitamin C and you do test it and it was a plastic I mean how does that work yeah well basically so so we built our book on Whole Foods naturally available foods so there's no chemicals not that chemicals are bad per se because some you know most things are chemicals
[SPEAKER_02]: But we wanted to do it from a whole food perspective and so one of the things that we added was oysters.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we wanted to make a simple option for people that didn't want to get whole oysters or fresh or frozen.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we started using oyster powder so we tried to source that globally.
[SPEAKER_02]: And most of the oyster powder that comes to the US originates from China.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, not the same thing bad about China, we live there for a long time, but some of the stuff that gets through can be reload quality.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we tested this, we found that it was maybe 5% oyster powder powder.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: When it's supposed to be 100% and so we just can't use that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so it's it's really like if you got a juice for your kid and it's 90% water and you know, 10%, 10% added sugar.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're even worse from that actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had them the zinc level tested because oysters are the world's, you know, most nutritious source of zinc.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a pound and a half to get to your RDA.
[SPEAKER_02]: So who's going to eat a pound and a half of this five powder?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, you know, one 200, the wood would be a normal oyster powder.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it went through this whole thing of like formulating our own building a supply chain.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so now we have the world's highest quality.
[SPEAKER_02]: oyster powder in our products.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a whole ordeal, but it took us full circle and said, and, you know, we went directly to the source.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fortunately, we live only a couple hours from the largest oyster fishery in North America.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that helped.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yes, we built a whole supply chain around that just did ourselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what are you guys using?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you selling this to people or what's the what's the deal with that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's inner products, and we'll probably offer it for people just for their convenience.
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't want to make the book around any of our products.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's one of the conceptions of, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: Influencers, they try to push a lot of their own stuff, and I think so of our audience might have thought that too, but we made our book product agnostic.
[SPEAKER_02]: So everything's available from the grocery store.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, many of the recipes you can make with just items you find at the grocery store, and then some of them require a couple, slightly weirder things, but you can find them easily online, like we use kelp, sea kelp powder for iodine.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's commonly available online as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like Amazon or like where we're doing Amazon and you can get see a couple of Amazon.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we've also sourced these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: We include them in our products and we'll probably put some of these things up for sale just to make it convenient for people.
[SPEAKER_02]: But these are all readily available things.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the oyster powder is just one example of like how you think you're getting something but it actually turns out to be totally different and it's not even nutritious, unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that that is insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's scary because I've heard of that too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's there's been many many tests of multi vitamins for humans that are, you know, you're buying a multi vitamin that you're supposed to take daily and it's it's.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter as much that it's foreign and from another country, it matters of the actual quality of it and the substance of it and I've heard of that so many times where it's not really what you're buying, unfortunately, because it's cheaper, because you're basically filling it with filler and actually putting in 5% of the actual ingredient that costs them money and that's how they're making tons of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when you guys are talking about building, I just find your story really captivating to me because you're just doing this in such an organic way and a very, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I like about it is, you know, at some point you have to realize that people are going to be like, you guys wrote literally a book.
[SPEAKER_00]: on a cookbook on on this stuff so don't you know don't be afraid I understand the concept behind you didn't want to like back door your products in a book but also understand that when when you write a book on something like this and it's done as beautifully as years and you've done the research I know that again we've we've we've spoke briefly before we we went live here like
[SPEAKER_00]: you guys have done your research and people are going to be looking at you for recommendations and they are going to say like hey this is great but where do I get seek help and where do I get this source of zinc and where do I get this so I would just say like for somebody who's been you know I don't know exactly how long you guys have been on the road here of kind of creating your own brand and your own yeah not that long
[SPEAKER_00]: your image.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the reality is, is that happened with me too?
[SPEAKER_00]: So many people were like, where do I get this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where do I get that?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how I just started making my own colors, my own leashes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there will be a point in your career.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope that you guys can see the the good in that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what is your, what are your backgrounds with, I mean, I mean, okay, the egg started.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dog had a upset stomach with the kibble and you started feeding a, a, a, a cooked egg, and your dog loved it.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you say your dog loved it, was your dog like aversive to the kibble or was your dog eating the kibble and then and then just having a bad stomach ache or was your dog really not liking the kibble.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he loved the eggs, you're like, okay, we're going to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: How did that happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is that he was eating the kibble?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he was just a little puppy and he was eating it, but he just was not doing well on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were, we were just worried about him getting, you know, the nutrients he needed as a puppy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Without, why don't we feed him an egg?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was funny and they're crying, but Joelle was so scared of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was going all over the place and saying, are you sure that no one's going to eat eggs and look, I knew that they could eat eggs, but something about like reading, oh, they might get someone out of, you know, online, just makes you, and it works.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we all said, the fear, momery does work because then people are apprehensive, especially when you have a lot of the experts.
[SPEAKER_02]: that are saying similar things, and maybe they don't even understand what the expert are saying, but they just hear fear, and we should be careful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that does, I think it does a bit of disservice because throughout history, all animals on earth survived and thrived on foods that just grew from the ground.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's no need for anything that's been made by a company that certifies it as this sort of ad.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's non-sensical, so we're trying to get back to basics.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it didn't include any, you know, it elaborates some of my formulations.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's mostly based around Whole Foods for vitamin E, we're using roasted unsalted sunflower seeds or we germ for iodine and sea kel, for zinc and copper, it's oysters and oyster powder.
[SPEAKER_02]: So really empowering people to go back to real food.
[SPEAKER_02]: He asked a bit about our background, so previously to this, I'll be working on longevity for people.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's also how I met Dr. Matt Kaverline, who was so kind to endorse her book.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's a leading longevity researcher.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the top of the business, but he also runs a study for dogs on dog aging.
[SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of the people who cite things like, one meal of a day for dogs,
[SPEAKER_02]: for dogs, that's their research, but they don't get any project.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we just did a podcast with them, so I'm familiar.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Matt's got serious credit, not just in dogs, but also in human longevity.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's one of the guys that are really rigorous about the science, and he doesn't stretch the truth or embossies on research at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's really cool that he would even consider reading our book, let alone endorsing it, endorsing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you guys were, what were you doing in the longevity space for humans?
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it in nutrition or was it just in, like, what was it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we were trying to make it accessible for people.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're trying to make things that were tasty.
[SPEAKER_02]: and also good for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what we quickly found out is people either want tasty or they want good for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of mix it together and make this weird, weird, hard for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hard to make good for you, really tasty.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's good for you, exactly, not so tasty.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was a huge huge, huge L. And then from those ashes, we started to experiment in
[SPEAKER_02]: in a pet food.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then before that, I was working on a software.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I sold software all of the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Europe, we were based in between Shanghai and Amsterdam, offline around.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been doing research in R&D for, in the better part of 20 years, making all sorts of stops.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just like to make things.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we built a calculator to formulate all the recipes in the book, because
[SPEAKER_02]: when I went to find one commercially available, of course, I'm gonna audit it to make sure it's accurate.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it just came back wildly inaccurate.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I just cannot use this thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: The data sources were not reliable.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just go down to take care of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Take care of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's that that's really important too because if you if somebody like you didn't do that research again.
[SPEAKER_00]: People would just be kind of you know it's like it's like the it's like a placebo pill really it's like it's not really doing what it should you know and maybe it works and maybe it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you guys did the longevity for people, and then this light bulb kind of came up in your head after you, you know, like, whoa.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then so where did the social media?
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause I know social media was a big part.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you started posting things and people were giving you crap.
[SPEAKER_00]: Other, you know, but hey, welcome to social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: Half, you know, half the people are more like, this is awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can't wait to see more.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you get this smaller percentage, but definitely percentage, that's like, this is the word.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're like 5% of the population are less, but they make up like 80% of the noise.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what's interesting now is that we've almost built up this antibody.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in the comments section, if someone says something, you know, add a line.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we don't have to say anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: The, the little community comes and says, what are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not true and like all this, that comes out.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't even have to, yeah, we're doing it all, which is interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, I barely noticed now and the, I think the coolest thing about the social media is just seeing all these people that have already, you're always been feeding homemade food and,
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, just quietly, you know, just always in teeny hallway if you do your dogs and they're they're coming in the comments and saying, oh, I've always done this, you know, my dogs always been super healthy, live so long.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always fed them, you know, students that I make myself and I think that's just super cool to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's almost, when you guys are telling this story, it's almost going back to, it is going, it is going back to basics, but it's going, it's going back to principle, it's going back to primal, it's going back to, you know, to your point, said like dogs for canines for many years, even wolves and coyotes and fox and all the, the things that run around there, they do the same thing, they fruit some berries and they kill
[SPEAKER_00]: These are all things that animals do on the regular, and dogs used to, and there's so many people who used, and still do, and what you guys have done is you've created this beautiful cookbook, and it's fun, I mean, guys, and I'm just going to break down some of the things that are in here, just to give you context for people who are
[SPEAKER_00]: not familiar.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can see for people who are watching this on YouTube or Spotify.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can see some of the spreads like the Thanksgiving spreads.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys have everything from cocktails.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't tell sir.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, I was just going to say everything is broken down in a very cute dog dog friendly Thing and so going through this what was your research like because you got to be because again, we talked about
[SPEAKER_00]: just internet trolls, but there are, you know, there are some obviously some validity to hey, you can feed dogs this, you can't feed dogs this, like what kind of research and development did you do to make sure that when you were putting stuff out there to the public, especially people paying for the book?
[SPEAKER_00]: like how what did that entail and what were some surprising things that you found because I know a couple of things that you know people always like garlic is one of those things and there's there's other things out there that dogs can eat and actually has been official to them as long as it's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: So go over that process because I'm sure that that was a big part of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah it was um not very many things that they really can't have.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the myths are what's interesting are often from really poorly conducted science like the avocados.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the strategy when you're doing research for me anyway is to verify across multiple different studies.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you talk to a lot of researchers today, there's a reproducibility crisis, meaning that a lot of the studies that are conducted previously cannot be reproduced later.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's something called like P hacking or whatever you want to call it.
[SPEAKER_02]: They build the study and their numbers around making it look good statistically and then other researchers that come back later can't do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's one problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: The second problem is that a lot of researchers are actually really lazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what they do is they look at one paper and then they cite the resource that that paper cited.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they don't read the actual original resource.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Joel mentioned the earlier we found one situation where a relatively highly cited paper said that avocados were toxic.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then if you look at the citations, a lot of the citations on avocado being toxic, reference that paper.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then if you look at that paper's reference, like what did they reference to substantiate their claim that avocado was toxic, they referenced a study from Kenya in the 90s that was like an anecdotal report of like two dead dogs that showed up at a hospital and needed a post-mortem.
[SPEAKER_02]: like there's no RCT, they just had two dead dogs and the owners said, oh, I think, you know, they like avocados, but they're like malnourished, they're like, you know, emaciated, and they're dead when there's a lot of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like kind of back to many other, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to I have to stop you there and I have to we have to back up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, just to just to make me clear What you're saying is is there's one like let's say a paper from Kenya back in the 90s came out because of Two deceased dogs who showed up in the owner or the Whatever said hey the dogs like the avocados, maybe they got in the avocados and then all of the papers and Research that comes out here's the laughter is citing that one paper
[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, the continued research or the up-to-date research is just citing something that we don't even know is true.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, basically there's a paper that was cited like over a hundred times by researcher that cited that Kenya paper.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then mostly reaches are citing this paper that that cited the Kenya paper.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's called circular references.
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't check the reference that the paper cited.
[SPEAKER_02]: They just trusted that.
[SPEAKER_02]: mistaken reference that the author put in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she probably didn't read the paper herself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we did, you'd be like, this is like, yes, there's no evidence that this don't even die of avocados.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in terms of the avocados themselves, the flesh is not toxic at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the skin has some person in it, and also the seeds.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so there's just this myth of what is actually toxic.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think there is interests by pet food companies to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because then you're lying on them.
[SPEAKER_02]: The more uncertainty there is, will they provide certainty?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and convenience and safety.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the more people I talk to in the industry, that are...
[SPEAKER_00]: specialist or have PhDs in something to do with animals or or nutrition.
[SPEAKER_00]: The more I realize that the pet food companies try to scare you into everything is bad, be convenient, and feed this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be smart and be safe and feed this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what are some other, so avocados aren't the worst thing for your dog?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are some other things that you guys found doing your research?
[SPEAKER_00]: As you're putting together this cookbook with all these beautiful things in it?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are some other things that you found like that where you're like actually that like the Kenya thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like are there other things that you found that you kind of debunked?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think pancreatitis is an interesting one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Would you say that's probably one of the things that gets cited a lot as a big risk?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this food.
[SPEAKER_02]: Pokemon food is going to cause cranky retirees.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot of fear around it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately, pancreatitis is extremely hard to diagnose.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you look at the literature and probably looked at like 500 papers or 1000 papers of pancreatitis, it's extremely difficult to diagnose because the tests that test for pancreatic life pace,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so many ailments like even, you know, gastro just an upsets stomach will raise your pancreatic life pace.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a false positive rate of up to 40% for that test.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if you get a false positive rate of 40% that means like almost half are false, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then so when you're doing that, then you're like, okay, so this is pigure tightness, but you don't really know another study showed that something like 34% of dogs had subclinical pigure tightness, meaning they had the disease, but then didn't show symptoms.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's true, then your dog actually gets sick with some gastrofag and you go, and you go, well, he has pigure tightness, but it could be something completely different.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then if you look at another study, a retrospective study which is weaker than RCTs, it showed that the highest coordinate dietary event to pancreatitis was actually eating out of a trash, like eating foreign bodies and foreign substances.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's used at all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's evidence to say, hey, you should not feed your pet any real food because it gives the pancreatitis.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's no evidence.
[SPEAKER_01]: to suggest that that's true in the scientific literature and that works because I mean, nobody wants to hurt their pet, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're vet as saying, like, you are going to hurt them if you feed them any human food, like, I'm not going to take that risk.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, why would I, why would I do that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, why would you take any risk if you don't have to, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But so that that's the thing is they put risk where there is where there's not another interesting one is onion.
[SPEAKER_02]: So onion is mildly toxic.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's why you know, you do typically like to eat raw onions.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then for dogs they won't eat raw onions.
[SPEAKER_02]: But once you cook it, a lot of the poisedness substance is actually, I think it's called style sulfates.
[SPEAKER_02]: They actually have a pretty low boiling temperature.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a one study where they fed like supposedly a toxic level of cooked onions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and the dogs are just fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have a little bit of anemia.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're called a hemolytic anemia, but they weren't like dropping dead none of the dogs were studied died.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is toxic, but it's not as toxic as they would lead you to believe, lead you to believe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's, you know, part of it is just, like you said, Joel, dog owners just, they would, you know, like, if an onion falls in the floor, it's like, you know, it's like, fire, you know, yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: The tower doesn't, this is how it is in my house.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, especially when you have kids, because my kids like to eat.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll ask you this about grapes and raisins and maybe you've done research on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you have it, but you know, I've always known as,
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, like, I'm, this is, that's why I love this podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get to talk to people like you because this is, you can talk to me all day about behavior, but when it comes to other things, I'm just, I'm just a dog lover, you know, but my whole life has been grapes and raisins are, are, you know, really bad in toxic and they may be, but it's the same thing when I have a three year old human and a, and a one year old human, both boys and, you know, we're always, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: conscious about what we give them because of course the dogs are sitting under their chair because they know that they're going to get something.
[SPEAKER_00]: So have you done any research on those those types of things like the grapes and the raisins?
[SPEAKER_02]: If we have done a better research on grapes and raisins, it's not clear in the literature what is actually poisonous about grapes and raisins?
[SPEAKER_02]: So they don't really know the substance that actually causing illness.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there are documented cases of dogs, consumed raisins and grapes, and then dying.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it super prevalent?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's some kind of wild card because we don't know actually what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it seems like some dogs are particularly sensitive and that other dogs are not.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that one you probably want to err on the side of caution
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm not, you know, for listeners and viewers, I'm definitely not insisting we challenge challenge the years of of of research.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying you'd be surprised.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with like chocolate, you know, chocolate is one of those things I was talking to somebody and they were saying that
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because again, it's one of those things like Hershey Kiss falls in the for your dog eat it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might as well throw a funeral now and it's like actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: They need to eat like Specific bakers chocolate that's like 99% cacao and they have to eat a lot of it in order for it to learn a lot of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it depends again on on the type.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like who really likes to eat 95% bakers chocolate, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But it would make something like, you know, human eating, like, five or six bars.
[SPEAKER_02]: I forgot the math.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll top my head and wrote a post on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's a really big amount of dark chocolate.
[SPEAKER_02]: And white chocolate has none of the, I think it's called Feel Bro My Beth, after Double Check.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_02]: White chocolate doesn't have it at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, black chocolate has a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then dark chocolate has a most.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it'd be something like, like, five or eight chocolate bars for a small dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: One one or two dark chocolate bars would would put him at risk.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, it's a lot like imagine a little dog eating a whole dark chocolate bar chocolate bar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that would be us even at the end right and right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that would be insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so what other kind of research have you done as far as, what are some other surprising things that you guys found during your research going through, like, oh, did you know that this was beneficial and people thought it wasn't?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there fermented foods that's, because I know a lot of fermented food for humans, like kimchi and things like that is really, really good for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there other things that you found down your, down your road of research that you were
[SPEAKER_00]: how not only was okay for dogs but was beneficial.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think one thing that we call for in the book a lot is fish.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's one thing I think that dogs that are eating dog food or kibble are not getting is omega-3s.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Afko that regulates the
[SPEAKER_01]: dog food in America doesn't call for any amount of omega-3s.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we made sure to put a lot of sardines and salmon and seafood in our recipes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what's interesting about omega-3s is that there appears to be a ratio in the diet that really matters long.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still really
[SPEAKER_02]: But it looks like the lower the ratio of the better.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's the ratio of omega 6 to omega 3.
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of people get like, you know, 20 to 1 these days or even higher because seed oils are everywhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not that seed oils are like so evil.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just be amount.
[SPEAKER_02]: They even, you know, make it in the animal feeds.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have a huge amount of these seed oils that are
[SPEAKER_02]: like highly hypomega 6 instead of skews the ratio log.
[SPEAKER_02]: So to bring it back, one of the best things you can do is actually
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, take fish oils or eat lots of fish.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we get ourselves, we also use the dogs.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it forms a foundation of a lot of the cell membranes, like the most abundant fat in the brain is DHA, which is omega-3 fatty acid.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the one more interesting thing about that is the vegan version or the vegetable version does not convert well in either humans or dogs because of the cdoles, they use the same pathway
[SPEAKER_02]: to go down the the chain of.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, some of those things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fish oils and omega threes are super important, especially the ones from, you know, marine allergy and fish and seafood.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where can you get?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's a question I was going to ask you guys, and I'm glad this came up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where can you get?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to go online the other day, but I was like, I'm going to wait to talk to you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's okay if you don't know, or if you don't have any recommendations.
[SPEAKER_00]: But where's a good place to get?
[SPEAKER_00]: fish oil for dogs because it's in it's in you know it's like you said the more you here's the problem with educating yourself on things the more because the more I know the more I don't trust like and especially with food yeah mainly with food is what I'm talking about like the more I know
[SPEAKER_00]: like the more I'm so suspicious to you to your point like earlier we were talking I don't know if we recorded or not but earlier we were talking about like oh yeah we did we're like the the more the delicious stuff is typically not as good for you you know and so it's like hard to find that balance but where where can somebody get a good source of omega 3 or
[SPEAKER_00]: You're making a great point here, which is a fair fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not just for dogs, it's for people.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like recently, it's come out and there's some kind of toxin, toxin, treat, treat, treat, treat.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: That can cause cancer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And even a lot of us, even in the world, a lot of the multivitans are accommodated.
[SPEAKER_02]: with having metal and things that you don't want.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the only way to avoid that is to verify.
[SPEAKER_02]: So site online, that's specifically to test and publish them.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you get a glance, it's official one that's oxidized.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a iron turns rusty and turns, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can actually be worse for your health and not taking them at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the suggestion that I would have is to go online to get online and look more at the airport you've validated batches and batches and they do a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: They do a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: They do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a lot of things and they do a
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you say that again?
[SPEAKER_02]: Sports research?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the one that we then I currently take.
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't updated the research in a while, so I should probably do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the last time I checked them out, the third party sites that rated them, rated them very highly in terms of like oxidation levels and quality.
[SPEAKER_02]: One way to look at it is to make sure that the ratios of omega-3s to oils is high.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if a big capsule, it has like 250 milligrams, it's probably not very high quality.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and one thing I can tell my listeners is consistently everybody that I talked to that's in the nutrition or dog nutrition space at all has said add fish oil every single person that I've talked to some people.
[SPEAKER_00]: agree and disagree on a bunch of other things, but one thing that one thing that everybody always says is dogs need more fish oil.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so sports research.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we just put the whole capsules squeeze it in.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's not just dogs, it's absolutely people too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then the reason why is because it forms such a critical component of our brains and nervous systems and imagine if you don't have some of the critical, what is, what do you do if you're building a house and you run a bricks, you use something else, but that probably doesn't work as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then you have a shot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the other thing is, is you just, you can feel the difference.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I remember, you know, my wife when she was breastfeeding wasn't supplementing correctly, she felt, I mean, as she should, you know, just she felt drained and tired all the time and she's, and she started, she started supplementing and she immediately felt, but it's a thing for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I started to take like liposomal D and C and B and some other things and just a different form and it just changed It just changed the way that my body operates.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like putting bad gas in a system and your car is just like sputtering along and people don't realize that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I think it's just so, you know, fascinating and helpful for people like you, you know, to talk about the the dog stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I want to I want to ask you this because you mentioned there aren't many I asked this before.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we answered it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You you mentioned that there aren't many things that are actually toxic for dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you list I do you have it in your book like a list.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, do you know what paid page it's on index or if you know it off the top of your head that would be cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah it would be cool if you could could go over those things too because like i said i i think you guys are i know you guys are breaking down barriers that i mean that people just don't think about and it's going to better so many dogs lives because this isn't just a cookbook for people too
[SPEAKER_00]: make it is a cookbook to find make cool things for their dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's also, you guys are talking about hygiene and their their gums, their teeth, oils, carbohydrates, all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what are one of the things that are toxic to dogs for sure that we know of that like they could
[SPEAKER_01]: We do put onions on there, a zylitol, which is a sweeter, that's in a lot of products, like toothpaste, peanut butter, sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, bubble gum, macadamia nuts, grapes and raisins, is on there, chocolate, and then we also
[SPEAKER_02]: What we just think about toxicity is that even water is toxic.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's been documented cases of people dying from drinking too much water because it pulls the salts out of your body.
[SPEAKER_02]: And...
[SPEAKER_02]: can cost that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if water can cost that, then most things can't, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you look at the dose, I guess you see that dose makes a poison and that's kind of true because it takes some some context, but some are really high and then some are really low, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think vitamin D is an example of something that happens a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of recalls for pet foods have been because they put a little bit too much vitamin D in there and that can kill dogs, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So even an essential nutrient is also a
[SPEAKER_02]: But some of these things, like macadamian nuts, there's listed as toxic, but there's so much we don't know about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, we don't know exactly what it's toxic about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's not even a very clearly defined lethal dose of that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't want to include that just to make sure that people knew that we'd covered it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then some things that might be in the house are like ethanol, the thing that all
[SPEAKER_02]: And then another one that's surprising is monoxidil, which is often used to treat male pattern baldness.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all super toxic to dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, to all pets, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just pretty toxic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty toxic in general.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you do use monoxidil, which is like real game, do you be mindful?
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's not on there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a food.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not a food.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the last one is caffeine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the last one is caffeine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and everyone has caffeine laying around coffee.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sugar.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just about being mindful of our things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then also, of course, like, don't feed your dog, like, you know, cook chicken bones, which can be dangerous, or really anything that you wouldn't eat yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, we're saying, like, for avocados, you know, the skins and pits are really toxic, but you wouldn't eat those yourself anyway, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: So things that you're not going to be eating yourself, like, why would you throw those to your dog to eat?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one thing that I'm reading right now on 24 is what you guys give for your healthy fats, so healthy fats is obviously very important for for many reasons for humans, but you guys do coconut oil, olive oil, beef, talo, um, so and clarified butter, grass fed butter, etc.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and it's so funny, you know, like you guys have grass fed butters in here, and it's the butters not your enemy, it's, it's not your dog's enemy either, but if you get like a really cheap butter, then it could be everyone's enemy, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we learn that too, whether from our, um, natural path doctor, or he's like, no, butter is not bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just have to get good butter.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to get like a grass fed butter that isn't filled with all these different things and mostly milk and,
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's just, it's just so relatable to humans.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, people who are listening right now, what are some things that you could recommend for dog owners?
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys have done so much research in nutrition, and you've done so much research, and what's valuable, and what's helpful, obviously, in what's delicious, because dogs aren't really that picky.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, my dogs, if they had an opportunity, would eat the dead rabbit over here, if given the opportunity, and then roll in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like what are some things that people are listening to right now from your experience that they can like I love that you have sardines in here Because sardines are like something that my kids eat all the time because it's it's really nutrient rich So what are some things people can do right now like that are listening to immediately start adding into your dog's diet and just start playing around with
[SPEAKER_00]: the safe things that can help boost their energy, potentially boost their longevity, boost their nutrition levels, and just feel better.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think you mentioned a lot of them already.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a canisardine is a great way to start.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're not here to shame anybody for feeding Kibble, because, you know, we have family members, obviously that feed their dogs Kibble.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think if you're having a healthy snack yourself, you're having some berries, you're having a little bit of cheese, like you can share some with your dog, and it's good for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or even ground beef, eggs, beef.
[SPEAKER_00]: The six.
[SPEAKER_00]: The, really quick, the sardines because when I go grocery shopping for my kids, the sardines, there are so many different types now.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's all of, there's in all of oil, there's no salt added, there's chili, so obviously, can you clarify like if somebody, because here's what I'm thinking, guys, is when I listen to a podcast and there's somebody, you guys have, listen, I trust you, you've done your research.
[SPEAKER_00]: You literally wrote the book on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: When somebody says go out and get sardines in blueberries and stuff and put it in your dog's food and see what happens because they they may like it and also it could be beneficial to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we are we looking at just plain sardines in water or what are we looking at?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what we recommend just plain sardines in water.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because sometimes they add salt and stuff so I wasn't sure because I get the tuna, I get like the line caught tuna with no salt added because tuna is like a whole Yeah, I mean it's a whole topic of discussion because it's you could get really awful tuna for you And then you could get more sustainable and and but anyway, okay cool, so just plain plain sardines nothing added into
[SPEAKER_02]: then it might seem.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like if we can't find like, like sardines and water, we might even just like get them an oil and pat them off and then rinse them off to make sure that, you know, but it doesn't eat them.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not so rigid.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it can't be for dogs that have been on kibble for their entire lives.
[SPEAKER_02]: because they may not have the enzymes to digest a lot of these novel foods.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you're eating, you know, a kid will, and it's 40% carbohydrate, your system is gonna be optimized to digest that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then you might not have the white pace, which is the enzyme that they just fats, you might not have that, and then it can cause more problems because you don't have that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're talking about healthy dogs, and have a very diet.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's not a lot that they can't eat, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we said earlier, Lily, yeah, I'm going to say earlier going back to your the bone discussion because that's one thing, you know, I feed my dogs raw have for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a big fan of really whatever whatever you can do it, you know, I just be mindful of the processing right so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, uh, because that's a big thing that we talk about, right, is like the, the, the highly processed food doesn't matter, you know, if you're getting, if you're getting a good balanced meal and it's cooked, it's still a thousand times better than highly processed, compacted down, kibble.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you talked about bones and one of the things that I talk about sometimes I give my dogs, you know, chicken necks or turkey necks or bones, and I always have to stop myself and say, but but just understand that they're not cooked because I know it could be right, yeah, they're raw bones that aren't cooked because correct me from wrong, but as you cook, poultry, specifically I'm not sure about other animals like beef.
[SPEAKER_00]: and elk and bison and stuff, but I know if you if you cook poultry, their bones tend to splinter and, and what, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially the leg bones, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, and again, most dogs are pretty good at it and they could probably eat it, but why take the risk?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, because if, if it's sharp and it breaks in this little point, it can get in their throat, especially they're eating really fast.
[SPEAKER_02]: choose slowly and tune the right direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, if you want to be often won't be careful, it's probably best.
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially again, if your dog is used to eating kibble, it doesn't know what to do with the bone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you almost have to see, they're looking at, like, yeah, a lot of times when you feed a dog who's never had a bone a bone, they're like,
[SPEAKER_00]: What is this?
[SPEAKER_00]: What is this?
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the big benefit of the oyster powder in the kelp powder?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I know that it's in your book and we talked about it earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something I'm not familiar with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't heard of what are the nutritional benefits for dogs for those two types of powders?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so kelp is our source of iodine.
[SPEAKER_02]: because iodine is relatively hard to get for terrestrial food sources, and so that's why it's added to our salt.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then for dogs, because we don't give them iodine salt, we use C-C-C-L, because it's a natural source of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know what's interesting about salt is dogs, actually can take a lot of salt.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've done studies where they fed dogs like copious amounts of salt and they actually have a very good renal system to pass it, but it can shock their system in the short term because they don't sweat they don't need as much as we do, but yeah, so I mean you technically could be them eye-dice salt if you didn't have another source.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the oyster powder, like we were saying earlier, oyster is the the highest intake and zinc, the highest food source intake in the world and also that's copper, it's just like a, it's just like taking the ocean putting it in your mouth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you guys do the, because on the front of your book, it looks like you have, uh, oysters or, you have muffles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, muffles.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chilled doesn't look like clams.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, muffles.
[SPEAKER_00]: Muzzles.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly what I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we're sending you some oyster powder, too, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you'll get some of this, this oyster, this is the, yeah, yeah, it's the, the highest quality oyster powder in the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people can also just use fresh oysters.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can more frozen oysters.
[SPEAKER_01]: Frozen or canned oysters.
[SPEAKER_01]: They also suck oysters in water.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and there's actually a conversion chart for those ingredients in the front as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just to make it as accessible as possible, like you don't need the special ingredients.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't need to buy it from anyone, then something that I'll ask.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you don't need to do that if you get everything at the grocery store.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's really cool because those are the things like, you know, it's just been life-changing, you know, I always want to better my dog's life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I spend all of my, I've spent my whole life bettering their mental health and helping them overcome anxiety and fear and aggression and overstimulation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the other half of that is obviously nutrition.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's the same thing that human doctors are now starting to do when you, when you go into places and you're in your
[SPEAKER_00]: physically sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: They also look at your mental.
[SPEAKER_00]: They look at your exercise.
[SPEAKER_00]: They look at your nutrition, your vitamins, like your lack thereof.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's becoming such a balanced approach, which is I think really healthy overall for the world, but dogs are stuck in the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you do you have any, and it's interesting because as we continue to talk about this, it's like they're stuck in the
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're only stuck in the very distant past because if we actually go back to the past They're not this is what they actually used to eat.
[SPEAKER_00]: They used to eat fish on the beach and they they you know They would kill things in the woods and they would eat berries and mushrooms and whatever
[SPEAKER_00]: So do you have any history about like how the the the food industry that the the cable industry had had had kind of exploded.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've talked to a couple people about this and for my understanding it really kind of started during the wars and getting the dogs their their food and canned foods like do you have any did you do any research on how the highly processed food
[SPEAKER_02]: made the extrusion, which is the way they used to make like sausages, it's basically just pushing food out of a bag.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the only way to do that effectively at scale is if everything is made into powders.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's all powdered, meat powder, powdered.
[SPEAKER_02]: grains, and another thing they do is they put like lots of grains in there, so then each individual one is less, so it's not the front of the ingredient list, and they may have like chicken as an abundant ingredient, which they might weigh wet.
[SPEAKER_02]: But ultimately, it still comes out to be about 40 plus percent carbohydrate.
[SPEAKER_02]: which is way out of whack for what a dog needs and yeah you're right it started with the industrialization process of making food and that's about a hundred years ago so before that there's no dog food dog just ate whatever they're they're humans fed them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I've talked to a couple different veterinarians on, especially oncology veterinarians, specialists and cancers, and they're saying that this is kind of correlating, like the amount, the dogs who are on the highly processed food, and to be clear with everybody listening, not all processed cable is treated the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, again, we're not trying to, we're just trying to educate people, because at first when people told me about certain, you know, either exercises or meditation or even the things that I do that have helped me tremendously in my life, I was, it was blasphemy, I was like, I didn't want to hear it, of course, but now that I'm, I'm like, well, this is this, I've kind of opened my eyes and I can't unsee it and so I'm just trying my hardest for people out there because I care about dogs so much and I'd hate for people to feel like they have to,
[SPEAKER_00]: do a certain thing just because they don't know and that's what this conversation is about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And any other conversation I have in my podcast, I am just passionate about getting to the bottom of what is going to be best for our dogs period.
[SPEAKER_00]: So 100 years ago, they started this process and from my research and from talking to other people, Dr. Billinghurst and other people in the
[SPEAKER_00]: or 40%, like you said, 40%, almost half.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that turns into sugar, and then it causes inflammation, and then it causes potential cancers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, so going back to what you're saying, it started 100 years ago, ish, and now when Kibble is made, it's, it's all, are you saying, it's all powder,
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's extruded into, like a, um, I don't know, what happens after the powder they wet it and then they put it through.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a little bit a little bit of water in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just soaking mix and then they push out of like basically a bag or some kind of tube and then it just gets cut.
[SPEAKER_02]: one after another.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they have like, yeah, like, exactly have a die.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's at the end of this tube.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it just pushes out, pushes it out, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the fact that they have to do that what it means that it has to be a lot of carbohydrate and it can't be the optimal ratio of macro nutrients, macro nutrients.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an optimal ratio for the machines.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's optimal ratio for the machines, not the optimal ratio for dog nutrition, unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, for production.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it can get really perverse.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like based on the regulations of AFCO, you can make dog food 70% carbohydrates and legally still pass mustard.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's way out of whack to be 70% carbohydrate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you explain that to a meal for us humans?
[SPEAKER_00]: What would a 70% carbohydrate meal be for me?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I wouldn't even know I'll stop my head, but yeah, it would be like a lot of rice, a little bit of meat and a little sprinkle of powders, and little sprinkle of oil on top.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're eating 70, and you know what's interesting is because that is more colorately dense.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's about double.
[SPEAKER_02]: car margins and protein.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it would just take a little bit of portion of the play and you're going to be eating mostly rice, a little bit of me, a drop of oil and then powders.
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be what it would be like for a person.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of this is also highly processed too, so it's cooked down, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just, it's not like a fresh meal.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's highly processed in a way of what we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's broken into powders, put to an extruder.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's also highly, you have multiple times multiple times.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to eat it when you process it for,
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, making powders.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the powder process is also, uh, usually at high temperatures.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the extrusion process is at high pressure and high temperatures.
[SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of the stuff, you know, the natural vitamins get destroyed and they have to add it back in as powders afterwards.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, it's not to say the powders and synthetics are bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just everything that you add increases your risk of contamination, right, risk of contamination.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's also just, you know, something to think about too for people who are listening and watching is, you know, think about also, like, you know, for me, listen, I used to be that dog owner.
[SPEAKER_00]: I used to feed kibble.
[SPEAKER_00]: I used to feed this company called a gravy train.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me tell you what.
[SPEAKER_00]: You put the gravy train in that bowl.
[SPEAKER_00]: You had a little bit of water.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're froth it around like you're tossing some chicken wings and that thing would just turn into a soup and my dog would love it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's things like that they have to eat every day too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's something to consider.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's not like if your dog eats kibble
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a couple times or whatever, it's not going to be the end of the world, it's just the fact that when your dog is eating carbohydrates for every meal, so to your point, it would be like me eating or anybody else listening, eating rice and a little bit of a little bit of meat every day without any other things like worth out the fruits in the vegetables.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, not all kibble is is critical, so take this with a grain of salt, but you can flip your bag over right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: People who are listening, again, don't feel bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't feel like you're doing something wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, my job is to just help people along the way educate, flip your flip your bag over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Could do you guys have any um processes or do you have any advice for people when they're looking at their cable bag?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say they say, hey, I can't do this and I can't do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any, like, okay, if you are going to feed cable or if you're feeding cable right now and you want to see what's in your dog's food, is there anything that you guys would recommend like flipping that bag over and seeing the first two ingredients and as long as it doesn't say corn meal, you're in better shape.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we necessarily have a process for that because we just don't, I mean, we just recommend that, you know, getting your kitchen, you know, open the fridge, see what you got in there, throw it on the stove and give that to your dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is really what we always say, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and part of the reason why is even the guaranteed analysis that they put on
[SPEAKER_02]: because it's all done based on crude measurements.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you look at the back of the bag, it's just crude protein and crude fat.
[SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, when you used, yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, what does that mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I didn't know either.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was looking it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's exactly that it's crude.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what they do is they take the nitrogen and they use that to estimate the amount of protein in a food.
[SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of other things that aren't protein
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, Eurea, the main experiment in urine has a lot of nitrogen, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then out of what is it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Who is the thing that they were putting in baby formula for a while?
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's the additive that also has lots of nitrogen, but doesn't have any protein.
[SPEAKER_02]: So these things can be misleading.
[SPEAKER_02]: So protein quality is important.
[SPEAKER_01]: to understand what's in the bag just by looking at the things that are on there and then the wet wet dry weight can also be confusing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, some of these are measured wet and then they measure other things dry.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just because chicken is first doesn't necessarily mean that it's mostly chicken on the ingredients and that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's mostly chicken.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's what I thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought like the first ingredient has the most, that's what the most the most of the bag is.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when I when I was feeding cable, that's what I would do is I would flip the bag over and just make sure it said like chicken.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's one of the tricks they use now is that they the way if it says just chicken first.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the next ingredient is like rice.
[SPEAKER_02]: They weigh the chicken wet on the way that the rice dry.
[SPEAKER_02]: The first one that is like the dirty boy, you know what the dirty game of cool allows that to happen So the the regular Tory body is okay with that So it tells you something about where they're interest lie, but yeah, so it's a pretty
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, American Association of Feed Control Officials, wow, it's a mouthful.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, just for people who are hearing AFCO, because they probably heard it on my podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: So just also the clarify, AFCO is a body made up of, it's non-governmental, but it's made up of officials that are potentially employed by the government, and they get together and they have these meetings and they decide things.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what people don't know is that, like,
[SPEAKER_02]: all the pet food companies also sit in these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a collaborative process.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's so collaborative.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been set up.
[SPEAKER_02]: They, they weren't together.
[SPEAKER_00]: See, it happens, it happens with, this is the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It happens with, this is why it's frustrating as a human, because it happens with us too, because there's been a lot of the,
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of like the Ivy League schools, not a lot, but some of them have been caught doing things like this where they would say, oh, this rate, I don't, I can't cite them off the top of my head, but I can tell you that like Harvard University was caught up in a scam where they were getting paid by a certain board.
[SPEAKER_00]: to say this is bad when in a back door to a particular company, which essentially means that the people who are on this board of Afko that says, what is good, what is bad, what is okay, what is not are also let also the people who are on board are the people who are feeding your dogs this stuff, which I'm not going to say it's all, this is just me talking, but I don't think it's all malicious and it's all bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if the people who are heavily
[SPEAKER_00]: in making dog food.
[SPEAKER_00]: They should have something to say about what's good and what's bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the end of the day, if they're also saying that it's okay for your it's okay for us to say that we're going to tell people that the majority of this bag is chicken when in fact it's it's only weighed that's only true because it's weighed wet before we powder it all up and then it it ends up being actually mostly carbohydrates
[SPEAKER_00]: like these are and then they go under this is okay but it's okay because we own the company and so we get paid by this sort of pharmaceutical drugs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean this is historic for pharmaceutical drugs in the United States as well to say like hey this is okay for you because we've paid this many you know this many people off and so
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just kind of a dirty game that this happens a little bit in the dog training world where you'll have a group or a body and an organization come out with a piece of paper that says this is the proper way to train a dog and also after you read all of this in a most of it is in in house surveys not peer reviewed not not not real science and not real not real studied.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then at the end of it, it's like an also if you want to apply for our certification program here's the link.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, that's a little biased, you know, and of course, dog owners to the point that we've been talking about this whole podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: The poor dog owners who see this post in Facebook that says, never feed your dog sardines because of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, okay, we can never do this again, or
[SPEAKER_00]: never use this particular collar because this one thing happened and and it's we just have to understand that these these could also be funded by the same people who don't make this collar or don't make sardines who want you to buy this bag of dog food or who want you to buy you know their certification program or whatever and it just happens so much under our noses that we don't we don't even realize it because we're supposed to
[SPEAKER_00]: what what everyone said and now I think if the educate people like you are coming along and saying like hey actually hold on I've done the research and I've backtracked all the things and just like the little micro
[SPEAKER_00]: find of the Kenyan and the in the avocados is that's that's the same thing that's happening in many different avenues of our society where you know this study comes out this as avocados are bad for dogs and you go so nobody can feed avocado for dogs and it's not healthy fat and then all of a sudden you find that the actual study and research comes from
[SPEAKER_00]: A person who found two dogs deceased that could have eaten avocados and Kenya in the 90s and it's this it's the same thing that happens in the dog training industry where somebody comes in and Put the certain collar on a dog that has has zero context for What this is and then all of a sudden does this really crappy thing to the dog and then it's like we can never use this and it's like wait a minute
[SPEAKER_00]: But this doesn't make it, this isn't making any sense, this isn't like, you know, really, really looked at and it's not so it's just, I don't know, my little rant there that it's so frustrating because dog owners are so confused about
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's kind of a trend in the world today where special interest groups have a lot of power and then consumers are kind of at their whim.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the only way to really combat that is to be super knowledgeable or find someone who is and then trust their judgment.
[SPEAKER_02]: But ultimately, you have to be the researcher self, understand what people are saying.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, because the reality is, you know, that's doctors any professional, there's good and there's that.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's going to be good doctors is going to be doctors that, you know, graduated med school and then didn't pick up a book or, or do any research thereafter.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and the, and the, and the tough part is distinguishing which ones are which, and, and the, and the tough part is distinguishing which ones are which.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's why I'm like I said I'm excited to have you guys and I want to read one of these recipes Because this is this is really cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you guys have these egg noodles, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to just I this is just one of the I just picked guys random We have chicken pop tie.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have Spop I don't even know what Spop is it's supposed to be spam maybe
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have Puppetato, Grot and Pie.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have Bad Belly Soup.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have broths.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys have done such an incredible job at this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just want to go over egg noodles just because it's simple and it looks awesome and it looks like, you know, just like how I would eat egg noodles.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to, I just want to read the recipe and I want to read the way to cook it.
[SPEAKER_00]: For people so people can get a good idea of like how this book is laid out and and give people a little Idea so egg noodles.
[SPEAKER_00]: These egg noodles are a low carb replacement for regular noodles We think you're pup will love them and even more because of how nutrient dense eggs are comparable to starchy noodles So it seems like a lot of the ingredients and a lot of the recipes that you guys have have compiled and put together also aren't just
[SPEAKER_00]: for fun and for good taste.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're beneficial.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that fair to say like every recipe is built off of some sort of...
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we wanted to show people, I think a lot of the dishes that look like human dishes and the fun names is that dog food doesn't have to be disgusting or gross.
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be delicious looking and smelling, and you can make it in a way that's similar to your meals.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we also wanted to make sure that it was still optimal for them, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So instead of just making regular noodles for them, a better option would be to make egg noodles for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't would be to make egg noodles for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's all going to read this.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, so two eggs, half a tablespoon of coconut oil or seven grams.
[SPEAKER_00]: So method one, whisk the eggs in a small bowl, heat up a large pan over medium heat, add the coconut oil and gently heat up, pour in the eggs, tilt the pan around.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of like a crepe.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're kind of putting the noodles all the way around the crepe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you would make an omelet, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let the eggs cook like one big pancake when the eggs are mostly firmed up, put the eggs over cook for another few seconds on the other side, and transfer the eggs into a cutting board, roll it up, and then cross-wire into noodle strains.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let the egg noodles cool completely be for servant to your dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this makes a beautiful little thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm looking at this cookbook here for those of you, obviously, you can't see this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like a pile of delicious looking
[SPEAKER_01]: A hundred and twenty or a few more, I think, or a few more, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: to over okay let's just say over a hundred okay that's a lot right and then we have we have a meatloaf we have patios which are not shows it's so cool and and again like these are not shows that I could eat as a human I I would eat I'm even if you say I can't because I look good but but a lot of this stuff guys is just getting back to the basics and that's that's what I love about this cookbook is
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, again, I'm just going to read this other quick recipe, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have loaded pochos, which, again, is a plan that loaded nachos.
[SPEAKER_00]: One small sweet potato, olive oil, turkey, frozen peas, salmon chopped into bite pieces, fresh chicken liver, roasted unsalted sunflower seeds, oyster powder, ground egg shell, sea kelp, and plain yogurt or kefir.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's really just getting back to the basics,
[SPEAKER_00]: to fuel, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actual food that our dogs are not only going to love, they're going to thrive on, because if you can pair what I just explained to you guys to the cable that they get, it's going to be night and day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's something, and this isn't a yes or no question, and this may be difficult for you guys to answer, but I know a lot of people are going to say, and I would say this too.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, I have two kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have three animals in my house.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd say, well, I don't have time to make even my own family.
[SPEAKER_00]: This delicious stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there, are there, let's just say, outside of the cookbook, outside of the, the, the pochos, and the Japanese dog curry, and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what would you say, like a balanced, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you just give me like, hey, go to the store, get these simple things for inexpensive prices and feed your dogs and it's going to be better than cable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything that comes in mind that people can do easily and simply like today?
[SPEAKER_02]: The vote of the first half.
[SPEAKER_02]: or the first, yeah, we third, we both of the of the book to super simple recipes that are five ingredients or less that you can just use to get started.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the important thing with any habit change is to just get started.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think James clearly wrote in his book the atomic habits that he helps somebody lose a ton of weight and the goal was to just go to the gym
[SPEAKER_02]: I think like two minutes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So go get that habit form, go for two minutes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the next day, maybe go for three, just so it's not like a struggle.
[SPEAKER_02]: and then build upon that muscle.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the same is true for beating your dog's real food.
[SPEAKER_02]: Start with an egg, give them an egg, cause eggs are super nutrient dense.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've got almost everything, you know, a living creature needs to thrive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ground beef is also great, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So these foods can be fed like immediately.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can put it on top of your kibble.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can feed it alone as a treat.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's just, you know, so many things you do, you take some Confir, or some yogurt, you know, give it your dog, start small.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Make them make them a recipe once a week, you know, just start incrementally adding fresh food to their just start incrementally adding fresh food to their diet.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also I'll just say, you know, from a lot of what I'm seeing and a lot of what we talked about like everything that we're pretty much will hopefully everything that we're eating at home.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if we're not doing take out every night, right, and I'll be to take out every now and then, you know, we do we do our pizzas and.
[SPEAKER_00]: things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But hopefully you're trying to make home cook meals for you and your family to feel well.
[SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of the things from what you've told me and looking through your book like the other night we had Burden at Squash and we had leftovers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are things that you can
[SPEAKER_00]: but my shepherd, she eats like she, one of her favorite things is broccoli, one of her other favorite things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she loves tomatoes, she loves butter, she loves like squashes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anything that, you know, so just think about this guys, even if you're feeding kibble and you go what time kibbles easy, it's inexpensive, that's totally fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: But things that you can add to to help are things that you're eating at home, like if you have extra broccoli,
[SPEAKER_00]: Or if you have extra, you know, if you're making spaghetti maybe before you mix in the onions and all that well, you don't have to now that now that I know, but maybe before you mix and all the sauce and stuff just take off a little bit of the the ground meat that whatever meat you're using, whether it's turkey or bison or beef, but a lot of this stuff that I'm I'm seeing in here.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, the chicken and the olive oils and the, uh, the vegetables and the fruit.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can, you can add, just put it right onto the cable and your dog will find that nutrient dense, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even the egg shells from the egg, a lot of dogs won't eat them because again, they're not used to eating raw, raw, or, yeah, raw things or egg shells in general.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because if you see like, I think what becomes overwhelming,
[SPEAKER_00]: for dog owners, is they're flipping through social media and they see, I don't know if you guys have ever seen like the raw feeding pages, but even for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even for me, I'm like, what?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a, it's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's creative, but it's like, you know, a Bangalore dash turkey head.
[SPEAKER_01]: Penguin toilets from Argentina.
[SPEAKER_01]: We knew hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went to those.
[SPEAKER_00]: exactly and you're like it's so so then you think well that you know it's it's the same thing that we were just talking about about like these I love I started atomic habits but it didn't finish it it's kind of a funny thing it's like you know it's good if you don't like it put it down
[SPEAKER_00]: But it, but it, you know, it's really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the cool things I got out of the first couple pages of that book was that he talked about how Christmas Eve is actually a lot of times more exciting than Christmas.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I play that a lot into my, I pull that lever a lot into my dog training where I explain to people that the anticipation of something a dog owner coming home.
[SPEAKER_00]: an awfully dog like the anticipation of something a lot of times is actually much more stimulating and exciting or even create much more anxiety than the actual thing happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was an interesting thing that I pulled from that book.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I was trying to say is like when you look at people who are working out seven days a week and meal planning, you're like okay that's that's what getting into shape is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like no that's the extreme.
[SPEAKER_00]: What what I love about what you guys have done not only have you made like hey these are even if you didn't do these these particular recipes you can still go in and go Wow, I didn't know I could get my dog can you all I didn't know I could give my dog a bite of my apple.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know I could give my dog potatoes or carrots or A like the egg noodles that we talked about like I think it's what I love about what you guys have done is you've made it really pretty and fun for the dog owners who have have that but
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also just understanding that, you know, for me again, like I said to reiterate that some of the things that I see for raw feeding and other diets, not just raw feeding, it gets overwhelming because these people have been doing it since day one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So your dog's probably not like I know when I gave my dog egg shells the first time she didn't eat them the first 10 times.
[SPEAKER_00]: She would not, she was like
[SPEAKER_00]: She would need it, but I think once you I think you guys kind of touched on this is just start off slow right like give him even if you give him a piece of broccoli They're gonna be like
[SPEAKER_00]: What's this green thing in my brown kibble right or you know a cherry tomato or whatever dollop of sour cream or yogurt, they're going to be like because the texture is is different from from what they're normally used to so if you put that stuff on their kibble.
[SPEAKER_00]: those are things to to be mindful of so so would you say like be be consistent to try these things out because I know my experience my dog put his and put her nose up to a lot of the stuff that she likes now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there things that I know that you're dog immediately took the egg but.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any advice for people who their dog, like if they wanted to do eggs?
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody can do eggs right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give your dog an egg, give your dog a blueberry, give your dog a doll up of Greek yogurt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there things that you could recommend or give advice to for people who their dogs are really picky?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I guess usually they're picky about vegetables.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I've seen a lot of dogs who my childhood dog would eat around like every single like pee and then like spit them out, you know, that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have some veggie list options in the basic section, a veggie free option if your dog is picky vegetables.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, I guess just try lots of things and see what they like and you can also blend things, like how you might trick kids and dating the vegetables, curate all up with with a something that they do like and see if they'll eat that with a something that they do like and see if they'll eat that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like a, like, I know a good thing for a lot of dogs as long as it's not overdone is like pumpkin, so you could do like, like, like a little bit of pumpkin, a little bit of like Greek yogurt for that probiotic, and maybe some of the kelp and oyster powders that you guys have been, have been talking about or with sargines.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I know even like for an example, just again, for people who are listening, my, my both, my boys,
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, they're, they're not really picky eaters, but like for an example, they eat sardines.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they love, they love the slurp down sardines and I, and I know like our friends and even family who come over, they're like, oh sardines, I'm like the funny thing is, is you've just grown up.
[SPEAKER_00]: as an adult to think that that's not good or do you think that that's because we if but if your but my kid is like slurping them down like twizzlers like just you know and they're good for them and so it's just interesting like how dogs and humans have so much alike where they're they kind of put their their like they're like what is you know like what is this like my dog scene snow for the first time it's like whoa what is all this
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so anyway, so it's all it's all really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know like for a big part of your book and I know for humans like broth is such a big thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you guys have a simple and easy way to make homemade broth or do you suggest when you go to the store what type of broth?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I know when my dog was going through.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was on a lot of antibiotics for stupid reasons, but he needed them to save his life.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I know I had to rebuild as gut.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to just briefly talk to you guys about broth and gut health and and I gave him a lot of broth.
[SPEAKER_00]: I gave him a lot of pumpkin and probiotics and and and all that but like Is when I go to the store to get broth for my dog chicken broth or bone broth or whatever is there is or something I should be looking for In particular is there is there is there good broth or bad broth
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, most of the broths and the stores are made for people to taste good, so they've got like they've onions in them, that lots of salt, they have different spices and them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we usually avoid store-bought broth unless you can find one that's just single ingredient.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know they have bone broths sometimes in the stores that are just meat bones.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can find those, but broth is actually really easy to make.
[SPEAKER_01]: All you have to do is take a chicken drumstick, put it in a pot of water and boil it, you know, for 20 minutes and you have broth.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's it or any meat bone, a beef rib.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we have a guide to barking good broth in the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: So good, your dog will just start barking.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's based around ratios of water to bones.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, I mean, it's really hard to mess up raw.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like Joel saying you just throw them in a pot.
[SPEAKER_02]: and boil it for, you know, could be 20 minutes, could be 15 hours, depending on what you need.
[SPEAKER_02]: 20 minutes could be 15 hours.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the benefits of, what are the benefits for broth for a dog?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any?
[SPEAKER_02]: It tastes great.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's also some nutrients in the broth.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some proteins and some minerals.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe not as nutritious as we once thought it to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, it's, it can help the food taste better and it's kind of nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't it pull a lot of nutrients that you wouldn't get from the bone marrow?
[SPEAKER_02]: Boy, the long enough it can.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that takes a long time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to boil like to get the extract from the bones it takes.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why they call bone
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so you can get the, you can extract the marrow, which has some facts and some vitamins and minerals, but yeah, it takes, you know, maybe eight hours to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, so that's that's a little bit longer to like I know like I'm a big fun kind of sore like wherever I whenever I travel I I'm a I try to find like the best foe just for those of you don't know it's a cool Vietnamese soup and some of the some of the best places that and I've asked I've tried to ask like What why is this different why does this and they say because they they they boil their their beef broth for You know overnight or whatever and it just gives it that that rich
[SPEAKER_00]: flavor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so what about have you guys done any gut health research and have you do you have any advice for people, dog owners who are trying to improve their dogs gut health or maybe just educate them on how important it is in general?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're not going to be experts on this space, though we have run a lot of research on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's again, it's it's really emerging.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we talked last time
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, there's microbiome tests now and they're really high.
[SPEAKER_02]: So some people think to the essential thing to do and then some researchers are a bit more conservative.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it is really early.
[SPEAKER_02]: So some of these bacteria that live in the guts, we can't even isolate them properly.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know exactly what they do.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the evidence seems to suggest that
[SPEAKER_02]: that fermented foods are as good as or maybe even better in some respects than probiotics themselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the cafears are super good because they got diverse microorganisms.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yogurt really only needs to make microorganisms to be considered yogurt.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's helpful, but it's not great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not as good as cafears.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not just the bacteria that microorganisms themselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also their metabolites.
[SPEAKER_02]: The things that they make from digesting the sugars
[SPEAKER_02]: And it just all supports the microorganisms in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is, because I get confused for my dogs and people, again, people who are listening, all of the stuff that we're talking about is becoming so much more regular in the smaller mom and pop stores in your cities.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you go to a pet coer pet smart, they may not have some of the things, maybe they may, but and they're getting better about it, they have refrigerators now, which is great.
[SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of the mom and pop, like we have a place locally here called
[SPEAKER_00]: all the things that we're talking about, including uncooked and cooked food, the kefir, the bones, the broths, the goat milks, all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So do you know, I don't even know what kefir is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just know it's really good for their gut.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we launched it to have rarely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Confir is just fermented milk, and it's different from yogurt.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has, in addition to bacteria mass some yeast strains.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's much more diverse.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, there are even like, available like, brokers and some of the large chains.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please realize it's just like yogurt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just going to say, is it good for people as well?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it tastes just like yogurt, if you like yogurt, you're going to like kofir too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes a little stronger, a little funkier.
[SPEAKER_01]: A little bit, maybe a little bit different.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we drink a lot of kofir too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I also drink kombucha.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's one study at a Stanford where they're trying to test in people, whether it was fiber that had the best effects for microbiome and gut health.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they found that actually, at the last minute, they tested fermented foods.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a husband and wife team at Stanford.
[SPEAKER_02]: I forgot their names.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that research actually showed that the fermented foods had the most action in improving gut health compared to just fiber alone.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it really is helpful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe we don't know exactly why, just yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some hypotheses.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's something beneficial about the metabolites, the organisms themselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: getting in there and mixing it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let me make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: And listen, like, you know, I have to preach to you guys, but I think food is medicine in many ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you guys get, have you guys gotten any pushback from anybody, like any colleagues or anybody, like along the way?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that there's online people that are gonna say, hey, this frosted layer, beautiful, strawberry cake here, can't be good for your dog and, you know, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, do you have, did you get any pushback from,
[SPEAKER_00]: from any veterinarians or specialist or nutritionist along the way or is it kind of like unturned territory for this, you know, this cookbook?
[SPEAKER_02]: See, the thing is, right, even for people, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't like, did I open it again?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's cool, you do, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenever somebody says the thing that I'm like, all the bets we've spoken to you, they have all got different, you know, that they all have their own opinions of what the best diet is for dogs.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what it's like for people too, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like there's no one consensus.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can thrive on carnivore.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can thrive on a vegan diet and dogs can basically, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you do it smartly, dogs can eat vegan, they can eat raw, they can be carnivore.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's because we,
[SPEAKER_02]: all evolved in very nutrient poor environments.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had to just get whatever we could eat to survive, dogs and people are the same.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're a little bit more towards the carnivorous side than we are, and we're a little bit more enumerous.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's what we bought it 10,000, 20,000 years ago, is because it shared similar kind of food preferences.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's also the biggest challenge.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the thing is dogs can live on Kibble and they cover a hydrate heavy diet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just fine, just like people can live on vegan diets.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and you can actually live reasonably long, especially if you're not overfed on kibble.
[SPEAKER_02]: But once you start overfeeling that a, you know, a lot of things transpired like you were mentioning the boost and glucose and diabetes, at least they can't do all those things.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, that's, that's the thing is that dogs and people can just thrive on anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so with that backdrop, if you want to get beyond just survival and you want them to thrive, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to give them the optimal things and then that comes into play.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we built this book around looking at all the research to try to find what was actually optimal.
[SPEAKER_02]: What does the research say is optimal for for dogs?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we reflect that in our book, the best mobility.
[SPEAKER_00]: Love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are yeah, because that's got to be difficult because you're you're basically going to you're going against the grain and you know you're you're breaking down walls and doing some cool stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you feed obviously you guys aren't making spaghetti and meatballs, you know, every day for your dog what what's your dogs diets like on a regular
[SPEAKER_01]: make a lot of stews for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we also, we also like to keep it simple.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're not filming content.
[SPEAKER_01]: We will just throw brown beef, veggies, you know, a couple of the kelp powder, some eggshell, some oysters into a pot, some quinoa, and just cook it up in like 15, 20 minutes so that you'd a lot of stews.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your veggie go to?
[SPEAKER_01]: We do, we like and we end.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we do lots of frozen, pre-chop veggies, like ring beans, peas and carrots, chop broccoli, and that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just keep in the freezer and then grow in the pot directly.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not even washing or chopping involves.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you mentioned earlier about the time it takes, like it literally takes you less than 10 minutes to make a big pot stew for your dog.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the reason why we cook versus being feeding raw for, well, two reasons is first, you know, the raw can have pathogens and not are only tougher dogs, but can get transferred to humans, so you gotta be careful about the kill step.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that makes a little bit more complicated.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the second is that cooking can actually make some of the things more nutrient, more absorbable, so that proteins in nature.
[SPEAKER_02]: And most importantly, it's easy.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just throw it in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to think about getting all these different things.
[SPEAKER_02]: a little bit of this, just leave it on the stove, and it's done.
[SPEAKER_02]: It can stay in their refrigerator for four, five days.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's all about simplicity for us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Making it easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we wanted it to be practical for people, the modern person, and the modern person, kudos to all the people who feed their dogs, like they elaborate raw meals you were talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's a lot of effort to balance and to find all those ingredients.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the average person,
[SPEAKER_01]: can't or probably doesn't want to handle that raw food.
[SPEAKER_01]: So cooking is the most simple way to give your dog nutritious meals.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like veganism for people, you know, it's kudos if you can do it, but it's so hard for the average person to do it right.
[SPEAKER_02]: because you have, you're missing so many things that if you can diet and you can't do it, obviously.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you need to supplement, you need to make sure you're getting your zinc, your copper, or your vitamin B12, which makes it hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we're all about making it really easy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like you mentioned, some of these elaborate recipes, it's designed to scale with people.
[SPEAKER_02]: I should get more into cooking, even.
[SPEAKER_02]: and you want to practice your culinary skills.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, dogs are perfect for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause they never complain.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you make something for your family, it's not good.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're gonna hear it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the dogs are like, they will love everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, I'm, you know, any time I can, I can learn more about dogs and more beneficial thing about dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am so passionate about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what you guys have done
[SPEAKER_00]: is is really incredible.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was a lot, you know, you're such a pro at what you do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not just the training, but also this podcast is a huge gift.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think people don't realize how much work this stuff actually is.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think those part of our jobs to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in a way it is, but it's really also a gift.
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to help educate people because we were so lost when we started.
[SPEAKER_02]: and that drive to make sure that we weren't hurting our dogs or recommending things to people like it hurt them, really drove us to go deeper.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it's not easy, so it goes to you for doing this and having us on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really appreciate the effort.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Appreciate the effort.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The things that I've learned off of podcasts have changed my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: my family's life, my kids' life, my wife's life, my clients' life forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the little things that I've learned from the people that I listen to, whether it's Andrew Huberman or a silly, girly podcast in my wife listens to on skincare.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I didn't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, you're going to understand these people have worked on this for 10 years every day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they talk to somebody for an hour and a half and talk me more, they kind of give you the clip notes on, hey, here's the, there's things I've been doing for the last 10 years that will make your life better.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, so I love this podcast for that reason because it's certainly taken a change in its direction.
[SPEAKER_00]: This podcast used to be only dog training and behavior where it was just interviewing dog trainers and recording my online consults with my clients.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's 50, 50.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's having people on like you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: because I've realized that there's a huge gap in the world and exactly, I don't get paid for this obviously.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is something that I genuinely like to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't dive into anything
[SPEAKER_00]: I say no to a lot of stuff nowadays that just doesn't get me excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: This type of stuff, I'm excited for this to go out to as many people as it possibly can over the years and hopefully on your next book or your next adventure we can certainly
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, do do something again, but yeah, but thank you guys for for hopping on obviously before we take off I want you guys to to plug the book where working people get it when can when can they get it working people find you on social media to see all the fun and because that's kind of where it started for you guys right you posted a recipe on pancakes in your dog and then it was like once you get a bunch of people talking how bad things are you might be like, oh, maybe I'm onto something here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you just plug where people can find you and where can people find the dog's table once it's released?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you can find the dog's table at dog's table.com and it should be where all books are sold.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can find it in stores.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can follow us at the said life on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook,
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll put all that in the show notes as well so people who are driving or running or doing all the things that I typically do when I listen to podcasts, I'll put everything in the show notes so you guys can click later the link for the book and obviously other socials as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you guys again for coming on.
[SPEAKER_00]: this was your welcome if this was incredible and I wish you guys the best of luck and I'm truly I'm genuinely saying this I'm excited I can just tell by your energy and I can tell what you guys doing I'm very excited to see what you guys do in this space because I think that this is only the beginning for you guys because this is this is gonna be cool I'm excited to see what you guys can do so thank you for thank you for coming on and thank you everybody for listening
[SPEAKER_02]: Just one last plug, if you can put our website, preciouscreatures.co on the show notes as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we recommend everybody can get their goods from the store.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in the event that they want convenience, we have some of the powders available in the trio in the set.
[SPEAKER_02]: They can just order if they're interested, just have the convenience.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, we want to make the block stand alone, and not depend on anything too.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, really appreciate your efforts and your work doing all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's a laboralove, I'm sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we appreciate you and the world appreciate you, I'm sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks everybody for listening.