Superintendent Series: Rich McIntosh on Torrey Pines and the U.S. Open

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg podcast and our Superintendent series. Today's episode is brought to you by Toro Golfers get custom fit clubs for longer, straighter shots. Now, using the adjustable technology on Toro's new greens Master one thousand series walk green mower, superintendents can dial in operator performance for precise, consistent cuts. The greens Master's telescoping handle has five different positions, so the operator's posture will be as perfect as a tour pros whether he's tall and skinny or short and husky, and the handle's rubber mounts have just enough cushion to prevent any hand movements from influencing the cut. Sounds like Toro's solve the mower yips. Maybe they can fix the putting yips. Next. Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to your local Toro distributor to schedule a demo. All right, we got a great podcast today. It is almost us at Tory Pines. So I had a conversation with Rich McIntosh, who is the head superintendent of the South course at Tory Pines. I mean, this is a crazy championship. I think this is one of the you know, something that gets kind of brushed under the rug is Rich who manages one of the busiest golf courses in America. I mean, this place does so many rounds, is one of the you know, five or six most played golf courses in America. It's a municipal golf course and now was hosting a national championship. I was out there in March and riches the conditions were incredible. I mean, go to Tory Pines, you get country club like conditions with turf and everything. He does an incredible job and really excited for him to have all of his hard work on display this week at the US Open. So we talked to Rich just about the you know, stress and difficulty of preparing a municipal golf course for the US Open, as well as a few things that make Tory Pines and agronomy they're unique, and what we should expect to see at this year's US Open in terms of course conditions and how he got there. So, without further ado, here's our podcast with Rich.

00:02:13
Speaker 2: I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset when I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

00:02:18
Speaker 3: And when I find my.

00:02:19
Speaker 4: Ball in a fried egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Frida egggg Frida egg brid egg.

00:02:25
Speaker 1: Lie. I'm about ready to run off of the course.

00:02:48
Speaker 2: So I got to ask you.

00:02:51
Speaker 1: I was out there for media day and I felt like I got I got run through the US Open gauntlet in terms of pen positions. Was that a USGA decision or was that was that kind of the revenge of the greens Keeper.

00:03:06
Speaker 4: I'd have to look at what the pin location was. But we have we have one pen position we you know, we do the five different pen locations, and there's one that is just they just happened to seem like they all got talked and it very well could have fallen.

00:03:20
Speaker 3: On that day.

00:03:20
Speaker 4: But and you know, and and I don't I don't really dictate any of that. I leave it up to my setup guys. But depending on the day they're having, they can be tucked a little bit more than others. But it very well just could have been that location that day.

00:03:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, we felt like you guys were beating up on us.

00:03:40
Speaker 1: We were trying to trying to get us, uh, you know, get expose all of our games. You know, I felt like every pin was it was the I was playing the Sunday of the us Ope.

00:03:50
Speaker 3: I've heard that.

00:03:51
Speaker 4: I've heard that from people on certain days and you know it's like did you do that? Because I was here and I was like, no, I you know, I didn't even didn't even think about it. So you know, it coincidence that just happened to fall on that day.

00:04:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a duck to the position because we played Olympic the the day before and it was like it was your typical like Monday outing dead center pin on every hole, like just like couldn't put it more in the middle of the green. And then we went to toy and it was just like, oh my god, this pin is just in a really tough spot to get to hole after hole. So but it was fun, it was it was it was a good way to experience it. So, uh, obviously Tory Pines, you're you're the head superintendent of the south course there. It is one of the busiest, if not you know, one of probably the ten busiest facilities in America. How are you guys doing, you know, working with being a municipal facility heading into uh, the US Open here in a couple of weeks.

00:04:57
Speaker 4: It's something obviously, the rounds are a big challenge and the amount of rounds that we do. And it's something since I've gotten here that we've really tried to focus on our main traffic areas and good cultural practices with water management and sand top dressing and really working on those areas that were beat up when I got here, just from the constant, constant traffic, you know, your drive ons and offs around greens and be games of fairways and around bunkers. I think we've over the last four or five years, we've really improved those areas, uh to withstand that traffic. And then you know, just trying to create a strong, healthy plant across the entire property to where the grass can can withstand some more stress than than it may have in the past. You know, it's it's the same thing we do leading up to the farmers in January is we kind of have the baby everything. We can't get too quick, too fast as far as our culturalices and really working on the texture of the greens and the surfaces. We got to be careful to not do too much too early, and so you know, we really just baby baby the golf course up until you know, two or three weeks before and once we get to that point, then we really start to push playing surfaces and try and get our firmness up in our speeds up. So it's a lot with water management and then just you know, really focusing on plant health and make sure we're not doing anything that could potentially you know, put us back or you know, make us force us to take a step back or slow down. I'm leading up to the advance week and then Championship week.

00:06:42
Speaker 1: Is is there a reduction of play leading in or is it you know, pretty much standard day at Tory.

00:06:50
Speaker 4: Leading in, we have we reduced play and the car traffic's a big one too, so we reduce car traffic to car pass only. I think we did that about a month out, month and a half out, and then beginning of May we cut off twilight, so no tea times after two thirty three o'clock in the afternoon.

00:07:10
Speaker 3: Which.

00:07:12
Speaker 4: You know, it doesn't seem like a lot, you know, it's probably one hundred rounds a month, but you know that extra traffic in the afternoons really does does help us out a lot.

00:07:23
Speaker 1: Well. I imagine too that that's a great time for your crew to get out and do work, you know when there's no because that's gonna be one of the toughest things is you're you're not working at a club where tea times start at eight am on Saturday, so you know, these the tea times start, you know, twenty minutes before the sun set.

00:07:42
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that is that has been extremely difficult, and it's something that we've been able to plan for and kind of work through and learn. You know, we really need to front load our morning work, morning maintenance because in the afternoons we you know, it slows down, takes two or three times to do do certain assignments. So we do front load the mornings, and then that afternoon maintenance without twilight allows us to get some work done on those first few holes and then gives us a jump start in the mornings to stay ahead of play. So it does it helps a lot. You know, we don't, like you said, we don't have closed Mondays. We don't have any closed days. So it is a challenge six six, eighteen tea times in the week and then first light on Saturdays and Sundays, so it is definitely a.

00:08:33
Speaker 3: Challenge with those tea times.

00:08:38
Speaker 1: I'm curious, obviously you probably I'm not sure if you guys do do the reduced cart traffic ahead of the farmers. But what have you noticed about, you know, going to this cart path only, Like where has there been any revelations in terms of areas that you didn't see such benefits with having carts and you know the uh just overall the there's obvious impacts of carts. But have you found anything that you didn't expect to, you know, turn up that has turned up with the reduced carts?

00:09:15
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean we we do pull back on carts or car traffic. You know, we do go car pass only and for the before the farmers as well. And a big factor in that is our overseat in the winner and then low light and and you know, not a lot of light in the winter. You know it. Rough is a big defense this golf course. And for us to achieve the density and the height of rough, we need to reduce traffic as much as possible. And the more carts we have out there. And you know, I'm not a big believer in cart signs in front of approaches. I think it can tend to focus traffic and and a certain areas, so it kind of just let them scatter, but just you know, people will they drive on and drive off in the same areas, just you know, natural, naturally, it seems like there's some good places, so we don't. It reduces compaction. It allows us to have that dense and thick rough. It allows us to get the height on rough. And you know, we're dealing with it right now just with foot traffic around green some of those walk on walkoffs areas and those tight areas around bunkers and greens, and you know, we put up ropes to you know, keep the traffic off. Our areas were struggling with a little bit. But there's less water inputs, there's less fertility inputs. You don't need that water and that fertilizer to allow or give them plant enough food to recover from all that stress. And I think we saw big I think the biggest thing that we saw in relation to traffic is when we close down for six weeks for COVID right at the beginning when it started, and and golf went through that down period, and at least in California, my assistants asked me if I threw a ton of fertilizer out on the golf course because it just was growing out of control. And as you know, it's like, haven't done anything. You guys would have known, uh didn't you know? We're not putting more water out, it's just taking the traffic off the golf course. The plants just exploded with with the amount of fertility that we typically keep in or on the golf course to recover from that traffic stress. So I think that's the biggest thing is and that and it's what we really have to watch going into championship week and and and tournament week for the farmers, is we really need to control our fertility inputs and our growth regulator inputs because we will see a big jump and growth when we take that traffic off advanced week leading up to the tournament.

00:11:55
Speaker 2: So it's super interesting.

00:11:57
Speaker 1: Obviously, you people think about like the revenue that's generated from carts, which is obviously a huge part of golf courses, but on the flip side, those carts lead to you know, costs in terms of water inputs with the fertilizer, and then you know there's obviously the environmental cost of that, right yeah.

00:12:23
Speaker 4: And I don't you know, it's there's been a lot of talk in the industry. I think of all the increased cart traffic due to COVID and single rider carts and whatnot, and we've seen that. I mean, we've deal with that outside of COVID. If someone wants to buy a cart and right alone, they buy a cart and right alone based on that revenue.

00:12:45
Speaker 3: And you know, we have.

00:12:48
Speaker 4: Electric carts, so I guess, you know, I guess we're using a little bit more electricity. But we haven't really seen if people can ride together in carts. They typically choose to ride together in carts it, you know, And you know, I haven't been able to quantify water and fertility inputs, haven't been able to go that long throughout the year of no traffic or you know, increase traffic to really quantify those those numbers. So I you know, I don't know how big of an impact it has or doesn't.

00:13:23
Speaker 1: H Yeah, well either way, walking's walking makes your life a lot easier.

00:13:27
Speaker 4: I rather walk, Yes, I'd rather walk a golf course than than ride, for sure.

00:13:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, they pass out there. You're walking almost more if you you walk from the paths out there.

00:13:39
Speaker 2: Absolutely, which is good.

00:13:40
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely.

00:13:43
Speaker 1: I want to know a little bit more about your background, what were you doing before you got the you know, the head superintendent job there at Tory Pint.

00:13:52
Speaker 3: I was.

00:13:54
Speaker 4: First assistant or senior assistant superintendent at Mierfield Village. I think it was two or three years before I moved out here. And before that, I I started at Mierfield right out of college or right you know, my last semester of college and kind of stayed there for up until I came out here. So it's eight years, eight or nine years at Meerfield before coming out here. So, yeah, the tournament golf has been in my blood since I had gotten into the industry.

00:14:30
Speaker 1: That's got to be kind of a big juxtaposition going from Beerfield Village to you know, a municipality. Can you talk to us a little bit about the differences in terms of, you know, the superintendent job at a private club versus a municipal facility.

00:14:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, talk about two different ends of the spectrum. Yeah, the high end private club to a municipal you know golf course. Obviously, your your rounds and traffic and whatnot. I think it's allowed me to learn a different side of the business. I've definitely uh learned more about I guess the government side in politics and how they you know, everywhere has politics, right, but you know it seems like politics in the in the municipality or government is the politics that we see that run the country and and municipalities and cities all over the place.

00:15:34
Speaker 3: So it's really.

00:15:35
Speaker 4: Allowed me to gain and appreciate the service workers and and how and why we do certain things the way we do in a in a public municipal uh setting, and which you know you can see all the way up to to the federal level. But it is different, you know, it's allowed it's allowed me to learn a different side of the industry and really gain experience across a wide spectrum of the golf industry. But it's definitely different both you know, it has its ups and downs on both both sides.

00:16:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that makes it with the you know, obviously the City of San Diego operates more than just Tory. They have other courses. Do you guys work with the other superintendents within the the you know, the portfolio of golf courses or is it is it pretty siloed off where your facility works together as a north and South course.

00:16:44
Speaker 4: Uh?

00:16:44
Speaker 3: North and South? Uh?

00:16:45
Speaker 4: No, we you know, we work as one big team with Balboa Park and Mission Bay. You know, everything that we go through as far as bids for sand and fertilizer and seed UH and then our equipment leases. You know, we're all looped into one big portfolio and we work together. And you know, we'll have staff UH go down to those two courses during their aerifications, and they'll send staff up here to help out for our aerifications and our tournaments. So it is one big collaborative effort and you know, we'll we'll help them out and they'll help us out.

00:17:26
Speaker 1: What are what are some of the unique thing aspects of working on the ocean, How how it impacts you know, your your day to day job and turf conditions all right.

00:17:37
Speaker 4: Now we're dealing with no sun, so we've been you know, our May gray June gloom is in full effect and we've been socked in pretty good with with cloud cover the last couple of weeks.

00:17:48
Speaker 3: And it's really.

00:17:51
Speaker 4: You know, I think coming here and and and working here for the last five and a half so years, you really under stand how light, water and air oxygen really play a part and the health and the growth of the grass. And you know, we struggle, you know, we're not seeing any sunlight. You know, I have you know, we go out with our fertilizer applications and you know, you sit there and it just doesn't seem like it's reacting and where's it at? And you know, my first year hearing and the farmers was, you know, kind of freaking out, like you know, im not gonna have any rough what's going on? And then you know, you take the traffic off or you get a little bit of rain to push the salts down through the profile and see some sun to get the plant going, and then you know it just jumps off the ground.

00:18:44
Speaker 3: So it's you have to be patient.

00:18:49
Speaker 4: And it seems like we always get close, and you know we're struggling in some areas, but then it always comes together. But the salt salt from the ocean, the marine layer, the cloud cover in May and June, and then you know, we don't see big temperature swings.

00:19:07
Speaker 3: We're fifty five.

00:19:08
Speaker 4: To sixty in the mornings and you know we'll get sixty five seventy five in the afternoons and you know, you drive five minutes inland and they're ninety to one hundred degrees. So it's it's a very unique climate. Sitting right on the coast and the bluffs at Tory Pines just seems like, you know, I'll drive north or drive south to meetings and come back and you just see one giant cloud sitting over Tory Pines. So it doesn't it doesn't seem to ever want to leave us. But you know, we'll get lucky and get some sunlight here and there in the month of May and June.

00:19:42
Speaker 1: See a fifty five to seventy five sounds pretty good, you know for daily basis.

00:19:47
Speaker 3: You know, that's whatever.

00:19:47
Speaker 4: You know, it's like when you when you work out here all the time, you're wearing rain pants and long sleeves all the time. You know, you get kind of tired of it. But then you talk to friends back east or up in La and and you know they're dealing with ninety to one hundred degrees and one hundred percent humidity or you know, torrential downpours. You know they're sitting there, sitting there getting mad at you. So I just, you know, have learned to stop talking about the weather out here.

00:20:14
Speaker 3: Uh.

00:20:15
Speaker 1: You talked about how tournament golf is kind of in your DNA. What what's your favorite aspect of of you know, getting a golf course ready for a big tournament.

00:20:28
Speaker 4: I think I enjoy the pressure of the most, the pressure to succeed, the pressure to perform. You know, it's something that you get to look forward to every year and and it kind of allows you to see all your hard work be enjoyed on TV and by professional golfers that I don't think other places necessarily get to get to see that, So it is unique. But I think once you get to tournament week, it's all the you know, the people you get to to work with and collaborate with and see year in and year out, and and the PGA has been great and the USGA has been great as well, and working as a team to to put on the best of it as possible. And I think once you get into tournament week, it's you're pushing grass to the edge, and you know you want to if you're a lot, if you're able to with with the weather cooperating, have those firm conditions, have that those speeds, and and you're always trying to push it to the edge. And you know, it only takes one one little thing to go wrong, or one mistake or one bad decision to send it over the edge.

00:21:47
Speaker 3: So I think that that kind.

00:21:49
Speaker 4: Of that adrenaline of pushing it to to create the perfect conditions without taking it too far.

00:21:56
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00:22:34
Speaker 2: Now back to.

00:22:34
Speaker 1: Rich, do you have like a specific moment that really stands out in your mind over the years. It could be from your field, it could be from a farmer's where it just was like, oh uh, this is why we put all this work and time into it. Like you do you have a moment that just kind of stands out in your mind?

00:22:56
Speaker 4: I can tell you, the thing that stands out the most in my mind is my first tournament here, and it was kind of my welcome to San Diego first Farmers January of sixteen. Play was suspended on Sunday due to high winds and rain.

00:23:12
Speaker 2: Oh the Seneca went.

00:23:14
Speaker 3: Yep, yep.

00:23:15
Speaker 4: And I came in Monday morning. I think I got here about one thirty or two o'clock in the morning, just to assess the damage. And I drove down from our maintenance shop and saw one tree down and then another tree down, and drove out on the golf course and I was as I've never seen anything like it in my entire life. And it was, you know, I made a phone call to my PGA agronomous and it was just I was like, excuse me.

00:23:40
Speaker 3: I as I call, it was like, I don't know how we're going to play today. You know, I had to. There's trees down everywhere. You know.

00:23:46
Speaker 4: It had fifteen twenty trees down on the south course, laying across fairways in front of bunkers, and you know, and you know, God love Mark Russelly. You know, he comes out and get rules. Officials come out at seven seven in the morning, to assess the damage and you know, they just look at it and they're like, oh, we have rules that can you know, we have rules for this, and you're just gonna move this, you know, half this tree off the fairway and we're good to go and got the course ready.

00:24:14
Speaker 3: I think we teed off at nine and finished later that day.

00:24:17
Speaker 4: And it was you know, an eerie feeling with uh, it was my first event with no spectators on that Monday, you know, just with the vulnerability of the trees and tents from the high winds that night of course, closed down to spectators and kind of you know set us up for COVID tournament and with no spectators on the golf course, Like, yeah, we've done this before, so yeah, that one stands out the most.

00:24:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, now that I think of it, it's like since you've been there, there's just been some wild tournaments. You had that one, which obviously like all time crazy Sunday and then you know leads into the you know, odd Monday, and for you it's just got to it had to be like oh shit morning. You know, it makes me think of all those posts like if you know, if Monday morning was like that's like the ultimate Monday morning right there.

00:25:10
Speaker 3: It was a good one. Yeah, I'll never forget that.

00:25:12
Speaker 4: And you know it's you know, all the friends and co workers that over the years at Mirfield, it's you know, it's the curse of Chief leather Lips followed me out to California. So you know, it's we always joke about that, except you know, that was that's the running story at Mierfield every year.

00:25:31
Speaker 2: What's that? What's that story?

00:25:33
Speaker 1: Oh?

00:25:34
Speaker 3: Just uh.

00:25:35
Speaker 4: I think part of the golf course was built on Indian burial ground and Chief leather Lips, I think was the chief of the the tribe. And you know it's you'd have sunny week, perfect week the week before the Memorial and the moil gets there and you get anin terrain or like this, Yeah, just untimely rains and and really I think the biggest one was the President's Cup in October of thirteen. You know, it's supposed to be one of the drier seasons in the Midwest, and we got to October, you know, great weather, leaning up dry, you know, probably the best the courses looked and firm and bounce the basketball on the fairways, and we got to you know, the event, and we four or five inches and five days and it was just you know, it was one of the most difficult events I've ever had to do. But you know, it's I just remember one of the tour meteorologists came on. He's like, I've never seen anything like this. We are sitting two hundred above average atmospheric moisture right now. It was just like, well, there you go, only at Mierfield.

00:26:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's uh, It's funny.

00:26:48
Speaker 1: It's because then even like last year when they did the back to back, it was absolutely perfect for the work day, which was it the Memorial, and then the week of the Memorial they got weather.

00:27:01
Speaker 3: Yep. It always seems to work out like that.

00:27:03
Speaker 4: And I don't know the eight or nine events I did, I think we got one or two dry ones and and you know, it's it's the same same out here. It always seems any course that has a tournament, you know, they just seem to get that tough weather, those tough breaks during the week of the tournament. And uh, you know, I've only had probably one good one here where we haven't gotten rain that you know, puts us backwards on firmness and whatnot.

00:27:31
Speaker 3: So you always always get lucky.

00:27:34
Speaker 2: Was that was that the one that uh with JB. Holmes in the fairway?

00:27:39
Speaker 3: I think it was it was uh, it was the year.

00:27:43
Speaker 2: Range. Yeah, and they had that playoff late into the night.

00:27:46
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:27:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were really firm, the firmness we've ever been for Farmers and uh, I thought conditions were really good as far as Green's firmness. And you know it was yeah, that that playoff that went into and the Monday mornings. Yeah, and then yeah, exactly, Well.

00:28:11
Speaker 1: Despite it's crazy because you had that moment, you had the you had obviously the crazy storm, you had the Kobe thing happen, and then you've had COVID. It's like you've you've brought memorial to San Diego. It is it.

00:28:28
Speaker 4: Uh, it seems like every tournament something's happened. Every I still remember where I was when the when the Kobe news came out. But yeah, very eerie feeling set across the golf course. It's almost, uh you heard the murmurs and then it just got an eerie silence across the golf course.

00:28:48
Speaker 3: It was. It was a weird day for sure.

00:28:52
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah.

00:28:54
Speaker 1: So with a movie on to you know, the future here where we're gonna have great conditions in a couple of weeks. But talk a little bit about the how everybody sees Tory all the time. We saw it in two thousand and eight, obviously, but how how is it Are you expecting to get to play differently for the US Open than it does it does year and year out for the Farmers.

00:29:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that you hit the nail on the head.

00:29:22
Speaker 4: I think the biggest factor and difference is going to be the conditions. You know, we're in a time in California where it just doesn't rain, so we're going to be able to dictate those conditions rather than having to work through through weather and rainstorms leading up to the events. So you know, very yeah, very cautious of our water inputs right now, making sure we get our deep water in early enough to get us through the week, and really trying to set the greens up to be as firm as they possibly can, and controlling that moisture and and and the moisture management across the golf course. I think you're gonna see uh, you know, firm, firm, fast conditions on fairways and greens, and I think that's gonna be the biggest factor for the biggest difference. Then then we typically see a year and year out from the farmers. I think rough could potentially I think we'll see with the with the the mix of grass as we have in the rough right now, I think you're gonna see some more. You're not gonna see the same line and all the all the balls that go into rough. I think you're gonna see some unpredictable lies and and you know, really guys making sure or you know, not making sure, but thinking having to think about each shot out of the rough. Just with the presence of more cacuya mixed in with the rye grass and the poe and the rough.

00:30:57
Speaker 1: Is that is that new? Uh, that mixture or is that something we've you know, seen all through time. Just just when you know, with with in June the grass that cucuya grows a little bit more.

00:31:09
Speaker 4: Yeah, So cocoa is warm season grass, you know. We It's why we overseed in the in the winter. It just and you notice it at Riviera, they're rough is based on what type of winter we're having in southern California. You know, if they have a if we have a warm winter, they have a you know more of a you know, thicker stand or rough per se. And and if it's a cold winter, it's it's can be can be spotty as far as as heights and consistency. But you know, we see that down here, and it's a big factor why we overseed in the winter for the farmers.

00:31:46
Speaker 3: And and then also just recovery.

00:31:48
Speaker 4: Cocoa is not growing as much, so divots on fairways, UH car traffic, UH golf traffic, Cocua is just not able to to recover like it does right now. Soil temps are up, UH, air temps are up. You know, we've really focused on trying to get Cocuya up and going, I think, and I've talked about it with friends, uh in San Diego and up in La. It's we always, you know, within a certain miles of the coast, you're always in a transition period. You can you can maintain cool season grass all year, you can maintain warm season grass all year. So we're always in that transition period. And after the farmers this year, we scalped our rough down to about end chench and a half, just trying to open up the canopy to.

00:32:41
Speaker 3: Get that cocuya moving.

00:32:44
Speaker 4: And and you know, I think we we've been pretty successful. I think you're gonna see, uh a good mix of cocuya and rye grass and the rough and how it's gonna be a thick and dense rough. But I think that cocua is gonna provide a little bit of a cush into where if a ball comes into the rough, it could end up sitting a little bit up or it could drop all the way down to the bottom. So I think you're going to see a lot of inconsistent eyes in the rough, which I think will potentially be interesting.

00:33:13
Speaker 2: I I do too.

00:33:14
Speaker 1: I think that's that's one of my biggest you know, I think what we saw at wing Foot last year, which is, you know, they did do a big restoration and everybody wants that like mono culture. I think that's the right term. I'm I I don't know enough about turf. I just you know, I know enough to make myself sound like an idiot. But uh, the uh that that single strain ruff is great, but then it becomes very predictable, where if you have a mixture, it makes it more unpredictable and more like a you know what we see in an open championship where you get that you don't ever know how that ball is going to come out of that that lie.

00:33:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think I think we are going to see that. I've seen some golf balls that have sat all the way down to the you know, the ground and the rof and I've seen some that have kind of popped up and you know, sitting could inch two inches off the ground. And I know I struggled trying to hit those different shots out of the rough.

00:34:14
Speaker 3: But I'm also not a not a great golfer.

00:34:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, or have like a world class caddy on the back exactly seen every lie in the book.

00:34:23
Speaker 2: It's how uh?

00:34:25
Speaker 1: You know, obviously you've worked with the the PGA Tour or your entire career between Mirfield and then every year at Tory.

00:34:33
Speaker 2: How is it? How has it been different?

00:34:36
Speaker 1: You know, what are the different aspects working with the U s g A for this championship, you know, in terms of planning and and just how how you guys work together.

00:34:48
Speaker 4: I think well, and I think I think the big difference is it's year and year out with the tour, we're with the USGA. I wouldn't say more planning, But I think we're just more or more communication between each other and I and I try to do that with the tour too. It's you know, let them know what's going on, what issues we're having, And my biggest goal and pet peeve is just to make sure there's no surprises for anyone when they show up that week, which I think goes a long way with everyone. And they both, I mean, they're both great organizations, They've both been great to work with. You know, it is a team effort with with all of them.

00:35:33
Speaker 3: Were both both parties, So I.

00:35:35
Speaker 4: Think I think the big difference, like I said, is it's year and year out with the tours, so you see those guys every year, they kind of know what to expect, uh, And then you know, working with the USGA, just trying a little bit more communication just so they get to know me. They get to know how I act react, what my goals and issues are too. So we're just all on the same page and you know, we're not having to have, you know, any tough tough conversations, even though there will be some with both. Just trying to keep those open lines of communication I think is key.

00:36:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I imagine that familiarity coming year and year out for the PGA Tour makes it a little bit easier. That's understandable. You know, like then somebody coming in new and not only you know, you come here once every say ten fifteen years, but you're also hosting, you know, one of the biggest championships of the year. It makes you know, having to communicate a little bit more uh, you know important.

00:36:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we I mean we've been talking for the last five years with the you know, USGA and Jeff and John and and Mike Davis at the beginning and Darren always you know, have been in communication with Darren for the last you know, four or five years, so we have got to know each other over those five years, and it's been a really good relationship. And I think everyone's excited to have the event BACKATRY.

00:37:13
Speaker 1: I imagine the infrastructure needs are just like you know, it's just got to be huge compared well, I guess it's a weird year now that I think about it, But like I say, we weren't living in a COVID world. The build out compared to a tour events just got to be crazy.

00:37:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I thought so, Yeah, I transitioned from the Memorial, you know, seventy thousand square feet of tents or floors to the President's Cup, which I think we did one hundred and twenty thousand square feet of floors. To the farmers were upwards of four hundred thousand square feet of floors, which it's one of the biggest builds on tour. So I that has been huge and kind of helping me work with operations and the vendors and kind of understanding what what's going to happen and what we need to do to help them out and make sure that they're they're getting done what they need to get done and not getting in their way or causing any issues. I think the biggest, the biggest I wouldn't say surprise, but the thing that's kind of made me step back and be like wow is the back of house. So all the player services, the volunteer, the media, all the tents that go on that are are built on the north course right now. It is a massive production, bigger than what we see for the farmers. It's been it's been impressive to see and watch and all the coordination and all the different vendors that have been out and no property over the last month or so. Uh, you know, creating a small village m hm.

00:38:58
Speaker 1: With uh, with the course and you know, over the years you've been there, obviously you guys underwent a renovation. Can you give us a little insight into how it was to work on on the renovation and just the overall process of getting that done, and you know, at a municipal facility where you want to have as a little disruption of play as possible.

00:39:22
Speaker 3: It was.

00:39:23
Speaker 4: It was a lot of fun. It was a big challenge. It was a lot of work, but it was a lot of fun. I really liked doing doing big projects and and planning and coordinating and then carrying out and you know, making sure that we end on budget and on time. And I think Mierfield helped me out a lot with that, with all the changes and all the projects that we did there and and the tight window to get it done. I think the biggest challenge here was we never shut down the golf course and we only closed two holes at a time, which obviously runs costs up, but it allows allows for accessibility and.

00:40:06
Speaker 2: People to revenue to keep coming through the door.

00:40:08
Speaker 1: That's like the thing I think people don't understand about public golf courses is like it's super hard for them to shut down and do an extensive renovation. Like it's it's much easier for a club to say the members, all right, we're closed. Like it's really hard to say no to revenue because there's no dues coming in.

00:40:26
Speaker 3: The door exactly.

00:40:27
Speaker 4: I mean you're taking you're taking a bigger hit than just construction costs at that point, you're losing revenue for the year. And you know, the project was mainly you know, we had upgraded the irrigation at Bubbo Park. Mission Bay is in the process of upgrading their their irrigation and infrastructure, and it was a big upgrade of infrastructure really and modernizing the irrigation and the bunkers and what not to allow us to be successful and sustainable for the next twenty thirty years.

00:41:00
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

00:41:01
Speaker 1: What with with you being a municipality, is there anything that you know, when you look back at the changes you made at Merefield Village that made the process you know, just maybe more difficult or more costly outside of just having to do it, you know, by by you know, two holes at a time.

00:41:22
Speaker 4: I think, uh, you know, closing two holes at a time, required a bigger construction crew and a tight window just to you know, everything had to be done on one hole or two holes before you moved on to the next one. So you were installing irrigation while you were moving bunkers and installing uh bunker liners and sand and sotting the tea's and the construction areas. So everything had to be coordinated and done on just those two holes before you could move on. And you know, I don't know that.

00:41:58
Speaker 3: Costs were.

00:42:02
Speaker 4: And you know, it's hard to compare the two obviously, the two different regions, Coastal being coastal, you're you know, you're dealing with the Coastal Commission. We have a lot of environmental monitors out here as well during the project, so I mean noise archaeological monitors, you know, monitoring the wildlife and making sure we weren't disrupting areas where there was protected species. And you know, it seems like, you know, the summers, our construction periods always fall around nesting periods for protected birds, so a lot of monitoring, a lot of a lot of things needed to be done just to keep the project going. So I think that could potentially cause an increase in costs. But yeah, it's hard, you know, different different states, different regulations, and then being coastal as a big.

00:43:07
Speaker 3: Big part of that.

00:43:09
Speaker 1: With the environmental stuff, I've always wondered, you know, with the canyons, there is there are there restrictions on on the you know holes playing along or just you know where you can get the golf holes out there.

00:43:27
Speaker 4: There's I think there's a number of factors. Yes, there there is someone's called MHP A line and it's essentially a protected area along the canyons and it comes in and out of the golf course and you know, you aren't able to go into those areas, and if you do, you need to mitigate. So you need to you know, for the number of plants that you affected in that area, you have to replant.

00:43:55
Speaker 3: I forget.

00:43:55
Speaker 4: I think it's twice as many or three times as many in a different area, so that it's an inhibiting factor. And I think a big one is trees. So where uh you know, unfortunately we've lost a lot of trees over the years. But you know, you can't just take down a tree to move a golf full closer closer to the canyon. So the areas that we have lost some trees, We've taken advantage of it, but the Tory Pine is extremely protected and you know, we've we've been hit hard over the last five to ten years with the loss of the tories, so we're really doing everything we can to protect them and to keep keep the ones that are still there going. So trying to reduce construction around those those areas and those trees and to make sure that we aren't the reasons that they're that they are.

00:44:44
Speaker 3: You know, we're losing them coming down.

00:44:46
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:44:47
Speaker 1: With you know, you talked about how much you enjoyed the pressure of urmic golf and setting up courses for it. Was it did you feel a simpler way with the with the.

00:44:59
Speaker 4: Project, Yeah, big time. I mean tight, tight window. We had to be done prior to October to make sure we were able to oversee it and start to get ready for the farmers.

00:45:14
Speaker 3: I think growing everything in it was a challenge.

00:45:18
Speaker 4: You know, you opened up a hole that you just put sawed down last week, So trying to keep traffic off those areas, trying to put enough water down to grow those areas in but not too much to where traffic would cause more compaction and more detriment to the areas, and then you're trying to work that texture in those surfaces and the drain lines that have you know, might have settled a little bit. You know that that winner was a tough one trying to get the course back to a position where I mean that the the end goal is you know when you see it on TV that following year, that you don't notice that there was a project that happened.

00:45:56
Speaker 3: So that was there was a lot of stress than that whole year.

00:46:00
Speaker 2: Unless you're making like big aesthetic changes.

00:46:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, yes, I mean we did. We did change a few holes obviously and moved some bunkers that I think the course obviously looked a lot different and I think a lot of the changes we did, you know, increase the aesthetics of the golf course and and brought some some challenges back in. But you know, just to not notice that you know, train lines or settled trenches or some of your your hall roads.

00:46:36
Speaker 3: I think was the biggest thing.

00:46:38
Speaker 1: With the teas being leveled was that just you know, since the last Reese work, it had just you know shifted, you know, the the t's where it was and and one question I have is if the t you know, a lot of those teas are built up, if they were built lower, would you have less shift?

00:46:57
Speaker 3: I think.

00:47:00
Speaker 4: I think the biggest thing was just the amount of play that we see, so you tend to I think you get a little bit of a crown on your tees.

00:47:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, or I think anybody that's played golf knows what happens to teas. You know, Yeah, you get that little slope and you feel like you can't find a flat line.

00:47:16
Speaker 3: Yep.

00:47:17
Speaker 4: So just trying to get that back from from the last time, you know, I think what two thousand and one was the last time, so it's almost twenty years and I mean, I think the biggest thing was all our green surrounds. They were kind of they almost had turned into like bowls around the bunkers. So all that sand build up, and we took anywhere from a foot to three feet of sand build up off the edges of the greens, just from all of the rounds and all of the sand ending up on the faces.

00:47:47
Speaker 1: What I gotta put you on the spot here, what do you expect the winning score to be? If you had to dis guess, Oh, we're three weeks out. You know this is this is a tough question, the hard hitting one.

00:47:57
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, you know, I'll be happy with with a single digit number winning. You know, obviously you like to keep it around even but these guys are so good anymore. Yeah, one guy that goes off on a week and he you know, it doesn't matter how difficult the golf course is, He's going to shoot lights out regardless. And I think we saw that with Justin Rose the year he was twenty one under and everyone's like, oh, you defenseless gos, Like well, all the rest of the scores were like twelve unders, so it.

00:48:26
Speaker 3: Wasn't that easy of a golf course. He just couldn't miss that week.

00:48:30
Speaker 4: So I'd be happy with a single digit number, and then even happier if it was under five.

00:48:36
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:48:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, hey, I really appreciate the time. I know you're a busy guy, especially at this time of year, and I did, you know, I just want to say it was really when I was out there in April. It's so impressed with the condition that you got that place in and given you know how much play you get it. You know, you you present conditions, you know, on par with the with some of the best clubs in the world, and that's really an unbelievable achievement given you know, the the what you guys deal with with with play and and everything out there.

00:49:13
Speaker 3: Well, thank you very much.

00:49:14
Speaker 4: And you know, I got a great team out here in great staff, and it's it's good to hear those comments. And you know, I think we just hope that everyone is able to enjoy enjoy the US Open and hope for a good one this year.

00:49:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, hopefully it just comes in the ballpark of two thousand and eight, right, I don't strategy, just get in the safe strategy.

00:49:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't know that that was one of the best ones ever. It's gonna be hard to follow that one up, but we can hope for the best.

00:49:46
Speaker 1: All right, Thanks so much, Richard, have a great couple of weeks before the championship.

00:49:50
Speaker 3: Absolutely, thank you.