Puppy Culture Potluck: Ep28 - Is It All In How We Raise Them? Re-thinking the Nature vs Nurture Debate.

1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,320
I’m Jane Messineo Lindquist.

2
00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,040
And this is a Puppy Culture
Potluck podcast.

3
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,280
You bring the topics,

4
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,280
we bring the conversation.

5
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,960
This week's question is one that we get

6
00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:26,280
often.

7
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,440
I'm going to paraphrase it
because it was a long post,

8
00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,360
but this person who wrote in
found themselves in a position

9
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,560
of trying to persuade someone

10
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,560
to start doing Puppy Culture
with their litters.

11
00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:45,160
What she was telling them was,
if you'll just do this great Puppy

12
00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:50,040
Culture program, it will guarantee
a good outcome for your puppies.

13
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,720
And she was coming to me to ask me
if she's right about that.

14
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,320
If doing Puppy
Culture will in fact guarantee

15
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,640
a good outcome for puppies.

16
00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,680
There are very few things in life

17
00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,680
that I can state as unequivocally true,

18
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,960
but I can unequivocally say
that doing Puppy Culture

19
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,280
will not guarantee
a good outcome for every puppy.

20
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,680
There is nothing that you can do

21
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,520
in the first 12 weeks

22
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,400
that is a complete panacea
for the rest of the dog's life,

23
00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,520
that that will guarantee that everything's
going to turn out right for that puppy.

24
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,480
And there are two big reasons why.

25
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,840
The first reason

26
00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,520
is that puppy culture, or

27
00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,040
any good early socialization program,

28
00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,920
should be thought more of as a ticket

29
00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:02,920
to pass on to the next level.

30
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,160
What do I mean by that?

31
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,160
I mean that,

32
00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,200
there are developmental windows
that open and close

33
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,480
during that period, when the breeder
has the puppies in their hands,

34
00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,480
and your job as a breeder
is not to complete

35
00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:24,280
all the socialization
and training for this puppy.

36
00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,280
Your job as a breeder

37
00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,280
is to hand the puppy buyer

38
00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,600
a puppy that is not a behavioral project.

39
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,560
So the first time that

40
00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,480
that puppy owner
takes the puppy out in public,

41
00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,280
the puppy's not going to freak out,

42
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,360
the first time the puppy owner
puts a leash and collar on the puppy,

43
00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,520
the puppy somewhat familiar with it
and can sort of toddle along.

44
00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:55,360
The first time that the puppy owner
puts it in a pen to be alone

45
00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,720
while the puppy owner goes
and does something else,

46
00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,000
the puppy's not going to freak out
and have separation anxiety.

47
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,640
It's a, just a ticket to move on
to the next level

48
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:11,760
of socialization and training
that the puppy owner can just move ahead

49
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,480
and start with their their job
because they do have a job.

50
00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,560
It's not all on the breeder
without having to go

51
00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,680
to some sort
of behavioral modification boot camp.

52
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:24,800
So the puppy owner can

53
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,800
just pick up and start their work,
which again,

54
00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:31,320
if we ever had any doubt

55
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,760
that socialization
and training needs to be continued,

56
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,840
especially for the first year of life
and throughout

57
00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,240
the life of the dog that you just
you have to keep it up.

58
00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,760
Covid taught us that because
we had a whole generation of puppies

59
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,480
that were right up until 12 weeks old,
socialized

60
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,680
really well, Puppy Culture,
we did everything.

61
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,040
And then for the next,

62
00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,960
what was it, six nine months, a year?

63
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,600
Those puppies
really couldn't get socialized.

64
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,880
And we saw the tragic consequences.

65
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:07,160
I mean, we we wound up

66
00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:12,720
with a lot of behavioral projects
because that early foundation that, again,

67
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,040
is just like a ticket to open the gate
to go ahead and do the rest of your work,

68
00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,440
that the rest of the work was never done.

69
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,040
And and you have to do it.

70
00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,840
So no, it's not all on the breeder.

71
00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:28,160
The puppy owner has to do it .

72
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,120
Now, if the breeder doesn't do that
early work,

73
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,640
it's a nightmare for the puppy owners.

74
00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:41,320
And we see this all the time
in our With Open Arms puppy owners course,

75
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:46,200
because we get a lot of puppy owners
who are taking the course

76
00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,040
whose breeders did not do
the Puppy Culture type foundation

77
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:55,640
of separation training and confinement
training and leash walking.

78
00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,200
And these poor people have puppies

79
00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,920
that just cannot be put in
any kind of containment or pen

80
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,080
that freak out, that have legitimate

81
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,640
panic at being separated.

82
00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,960
They've never even been separated
from their litter mates for five minutes.

83
00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,040
They can't have any kind of tack on them

84
00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,320
that you put on a leash or collar
or anything.

85
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,240
The dogs just freak out.

86
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:23,240
This is just not

87
00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,360
really fair to saddle the puppy owner
with them, with this,

88
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,720
and 90% of our time

89
00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:33,120
in our discussion groups is helping

90
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,280
people
whose breeders didn't do any of this work.

91
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,600
So yes, it makes a big difference.

92
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,600
You are doing the right thing by doing it,

93
00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,680
but it doesn't guarantee a lifelong,

94
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,160
no problems,
the is going to turn out great.

95
00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,840
The puppy owner
still has to do a lot of work.

96
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,160
So that's the first reason

97
00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,160
why Puppy Culture
is not going to guarantee.

98
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,760
Because the ultimate outcome for
the puppies is going to depend

99
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,040
to a large extent

100
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,320
on the puppy owner
and how they take that advantage

101
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,320
that a good breeder gives them of a

102
00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,200
of a well conditioned
puppy and runs with it.

103
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,000
And the second reason why

104
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,840
early socialization programs
like Puppy Culture

105
00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,840
can't guarantee

106
00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:33,760
a perfect outcome for every puppy

107
00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,760
is genetics.

108
00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,880
Now, you've probably heard

109
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,760
nature and nurture,
and the estimates vary.

110
00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,360
Some say 50/50.

111
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:49,840
Some say 60/40.

112
00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:52,000
They keep changing it around.

113
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,000
But you know,

114
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,240
there's a very strong genetic component

115
00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,200
that's going to determine

116
00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,200
how those puppies turn out.

117
00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:07,840
And I think a lot of the reason

118
00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:10,880
why science has struggled with

119
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,000
defining the percentage of

120
00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,400
nature versus nurture,
how much is genetics

121
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,400
and how much is the way
that you raise them

122
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,520
is because

123
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,880
they're looking at it

124
00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,240
as one formula.

125
00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,200
It's 100% this puppy and therefore it's

126
00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,400
genetics has to be a portion

127
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,760
of that 100% and environment.

128
00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:45,040
Meaning to say the way that you raise
them has to be a portion of that 100%.

129
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,560
And I propose that we rethink this

130
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,960
because it is 100% genetics

131
00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,000
and also 100% environment.

132
00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,240
What do I mean by that?

133
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,160
The possible

134
00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,880
range

135
00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,880
that a dog's temperament

136
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,640
and personality can fall within

137
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,640
is genetically determined.

138
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,640
There is a genetic box

139
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,800
that you will never breach.

140
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:34,080
You will never exceed
the limits of this genetic box.

141
00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,400
And it is a pretty strong genetic box.

142
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,760
A Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

143
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,680
is never going to behave

144
00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:49,480
like a border Collie, no matter what

145
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,480
you do to it.

146
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,120
A Columbus
Spaniel is never going to behave

147
00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,520
like a cattle dog,
no matter what you do to it.

148
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,840
This is why people choose breeds.

149
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,680
They're looking for
that concentration of genes

150
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:14,320
that narrows down the possibilities
of the way that dog can be

151
00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,560
based on
whatever the preference of the owner is.

152
00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:22,440
Okay, so that none of these are wrong
personalities.

153
00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,840
They're just different personalities.

154
00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,840
And they are genetically determined.

155
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,400
I think that is easy for people to grasp.

156
00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,920
But what you also have to grasp

157
00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,600
is that every single dog

158
00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:44,280
born, every single human,
every single living

159
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:49,440
being, has a genetic box
which you will not exceed.

160
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,880
There is a predetermined amount

161
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,880
that your behavior can be modified.

162
00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:58,920
And the same is true of dogs. Okay.

163
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,480
They're all cattle dogs,
but some are going to be better

164
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,440
at herding than others
or have have certain characteristics.

165
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,240
They're all Cavalier King Charles spaniels

166
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,840
on the shy bold continuum,
some of them are going to be more shy.

167
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,360
Some of them are going to be more bold.

168
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,360
And there's a limit
to how much you can change that.

169
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,560
So with any given animal
you're working inside of that box.

170
00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,320
So that's 100%, 100%.

171
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,560
There is a box around
whatever you can do with that animal.

172
00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:34,560
Whatever the possibilities are,
they're limited.

173
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,000
That having been said,

174
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,720
where that animal winds up within
that genetic box

175
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,760
is 100% controlled

176
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,160
by your environment,
by what you do with that animal.

177
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,040
So when you're looking

178
00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,040
as a puppy owner at a puppy.

179
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,000
You're getting the package.

180
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,160
It's a black box.

181
00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:08,040
You don't know what it is yet,
but whatever you put into that puppy,

182
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,680
100% is going to decide the outcome
for that puppy

183
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,960
within the limits
of its genetic potential.

184
00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,920
For most dogs,

185
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:24,000
their genetic box is drawn so that on one

186
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,600
or the other end of that genetic box

187
00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:31,680
is something that we as humans

188
00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:34,680
would consider a poor outcome.

189
00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,120
What we would consider
unacceptable levels of fear,

190
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,920
shyness, aggression
at one end or the other.

191
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:49,520
There's going to be something potentially
for most every dog, that

192
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:54,240
if you really don't do the right things,
you could go into bad territory.

193
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:56,080
There are

194
00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,240
some dogs where that genetic box,
no matter

195
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,320
where you go in that genetic box, it's
good news.

196
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,360
It's going to be a great dog.

197
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,960
And then there are some dogs
where the genetic box truly is drawn

198
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,760
in such a way that there just really
could be no good outcome for that puppy.

199
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,680
And I mean, I'm only talking now about

200
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,320
pathologically normal puppies.

201
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,960
In other words,
there could be puppies that are just

202
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,480
so far onto the shy end of the shy,

203
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,960
bold continuum that no matter
what work you did with them,

204
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,960
you would never bring them up
into something that we might,

205
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,440
as humans, consider socially acceptable.

206
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:43,000
Same thing with aggression.

207
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,880
There may be dogs
that are so far toward the the

208
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,160
willingness to meet conflict
with aggression that

209
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,360
there's no way you can modify it down
to an acceptable level.

210
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,520
But yet those dogs are not,

211
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:01,200
mentally defective.

212
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,920
They're just dogs that carry these
very strong traits that we've bred for.

213
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,400
I mean, we've bred dogs to to guard us,
to be guardians to to protect us.

214
00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,040
We bred dogs to be soft and sweet.

215
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,000
I mean, these are all byproducts of that.

216
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,200
This is all normal.

217
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,920
And sometimes the box is just drawn
very far on

218
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,920
the ends of what we've bred for.

219
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,480
But in addition to that, then

220
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,040
you have your dogs that have psychosis.

221
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,840
I mean, just like with humans,
there's mental illness, there's

222
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:40,040
mental illness in dogs, there are dogs
that, have personality disorders.

223
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,040
They have obsessive compulsive disorders.

224
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,640
Again, sometimes that's something

225
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,040
that can be triggered,
that you can control it.

226
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,680
But oftentimes
it's just it's a genetic sort of bomb

227
00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:59,280
that's in there waiting to go off
that you just don't have control over it.

228
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,240
But you know,

229
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,800
those two situations either
where you just can't go wrong

230
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,800
or you just can't go right,
that that genetic box

231
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,880
is either all in territory
that we would find

232
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,680
a good outcome or territory
that we would find

233
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,680
unacceptable as a pet.

234
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,680
Those are more rare situations.

235
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,480
Usually you have a lot of power
to affect the outcome

236
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,880
for your puppies.

237
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,960
This is why when somebody asked me

238
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,640
if Puppy Culture is going

239
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,720
to guarantee a good outcome for puppies,

240
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,800
my short answer is no,

241
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,240
but it will guarantee the best outcome
for puppies.

242
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,760
And that's what we're all about.

243
00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,280
That's all you can be about
is the best outcome.

244
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,200
In the majority of cases,

245
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,840
if you've gone to a breeder
that has selected carefully

246
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,400
for good genetic material for that breed,

247
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,920
and you as a puppy owner
have done your research and are in fact

248
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,720
getting a breed
that you're compatible with

249
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:20,760
if you do the work, if the breeder did

250
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,040
the work in Puppy Culture
and you continue to do the work,

251
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,160
you're going to find yourself somewhere
within that genetic box,

252
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,160
that is a good outcome for you
and for the puppy.

253
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:40,120
Now this is really a course in itself,

254
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,120
but I'm going to touch lightly on it here

255
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,240
and talk about

256
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,200
what this means to you

257
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,200
as a breeder.

258
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,880
Your goal should be

259
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,000
to stack

260
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,440
the deck in your favor by selecting
breeding stock that you feel is likely

261
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,080
to produce the outcome that you seek,
based on the pedigree of the dogs

262
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,440
and the known characteristic
of the ancestors in the pedigree.

263
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,360
But it is laughable to think

264
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,600
that you control

265
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,680
the outcome and that two good dogs equals
eight good puppies.

266
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,160
It's just not true.

267
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,160
Nature does not work that way.

268
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,640
Nature is always looking

269
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,120
for a high assortment of genetic material,

270
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,360
and is going to spread the puppies
on a behavioral bell curve

271
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:47,240
to maximize the potential
that one of those puppies temperaments

272
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,360
is going to be optimal for the environment
the puppies are born into.

273
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,320
So nature

274
00:16:55,920 --> 00:17:01,000
is always looking for high assortment
and low predictability.

275
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,520
And as breeders,
we are always pushing for low

276
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,520
assortment and high predictability.

277
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,400
So you are literally,
as a breeder working against evolution

278
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,320
in trying to make all these puppies
uniform,

279
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,880
emotionally in a way that is is pleasing

280
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,880
and what we would call a good outcome.

281
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,560
Because remember, let's just take a trait
like fear,

282
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,160
you know, if there are eight puppies,

283
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,560
nature could say, listen, I'm
going to take two of these puppies and,

284
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,160
and put them
like on the pathological fear end.

285
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,600
Because if they're born into a really,

286
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:43,920
like dangerous and

287
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:49,480
research resource poor environment,
that really fearful puppy

288
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,800
actually is going to do better than this
bold, confident puppy

289
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,200
that gladly goes to meet
everyone that that they meet

290
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,520
and is happy to meet everyone,
because those fearful puppies

291
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,360
will stay out of trouble
and the bold puppies

292
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:06,280
could get killed in a dangerous
and resource poor environment.

293
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,320
But you know, in a resource
rich and safe environment

294
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,280
like most of our puppies are born into,
the bold,

295
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,440
gregarious puppies are going to do a lot
better than the fearful puppies.

296
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:19,640
For the fearful puppies,

297
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,720
they're just going to worry themselves,
almost literally to death.

298
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,240
And it's not going to be an outcome
that most puppy owners are going to want.

299
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,320
Same things,
frankly true of aggression, that if,

300
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,680
a puppy is born into

301
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:39,000
a dangerous resource, poor environment,
well, aggression serves them

302
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,840
well because they can take things
from other people and dogs and survive.

303
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,880
Whereas if they're born into a resource
rich environment,

304
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,480
aggression is a very dangerous trait
to have because frankly, you know,

305
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,480
we just don't tolerate it as humans
very much.

306
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,720
Aggression and dogs.

307
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:04,600
So what I'm getting at is
from an evolutionary point of view,

308
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,560
there are no good and bad
behavioral traits,

309
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,480
and nature is always going to try
and spread her chips out on the board.

310
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,560
She she wants to maximize the potential

311
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,200
of just one of those puppies surviving.

312
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:23,000
Nature does not care about any individual
puppy.

313
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,600
Nature cares about survival of the species

314
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,800
and the best chance
of one of those puppies

315
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:38,320
surviving to reproduce is by having an
assortment of temperaments.

316
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,280
Not what we want as breeders.

317
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,880
This is why we concentrate
genetic material.

318
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,440
This is why we try
and eliminate assortment.

319
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:54,360
We try and eliminate the narrow down
as much as we can that box,

320
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,760
so that box is smaller, tighter,

321
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,400
in a better range for us.

322
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,360
But again, it is laughable to think

323
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:09,960
as a breeder you control the outcome
for every single puppy.

324
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,960
You just don't.

325
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,480
You know, I always say.

326
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,000
This is probably the real reason

327
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:27,240
why most dog breeders only stay in this
for five years, because it's a fact.

328
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,480
Five years is how long most people stay in

329
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,480
dog breeding and then they get out.

330
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,520
And I think it's because

331
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,960
you come into this thinking that you're

332
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,960
going to do all the right
things and avoid problems.

333
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,800
Every one of us started out

334
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,680
thinking on some level,

335
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:50,280
oh, all those

336
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,240
other breeders, they were unethical
and they were cutting corners.

337
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,480
They weren't, you know, breeding
good temperaments together.

338
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,040
And, you know, they may
or may not be unethical and they may

339
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:06,720
or may not have been as selective
as you would be about temperaments.

340
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,360
But I'm just telling you for sure
nature is going to have a turn at you

341
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,560
and give you a real lesson in humility

342
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,560
at some point in your breeding career.

343
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,160
It's a true
fork in the road in the life of a breeder.

344
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,360
And most people,

345
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:27,120
they just they just can't take it.

346
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:29,320
And and I can't say I blame them.

347
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,920
There just are not a lot of people

348
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,440
that have the constitution

349
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,840
to continue and persevere with breeding.

350
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,680
Once they realize that they can do
what's right and still be wrong,

351
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:46,080
that you can have

352
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,440
behavioral outliers
and even whole litters, that,

353
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,520
despite your very best efforts and plans,

354
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,800
are really terrible.

355
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,800
And I think this real heartbreak

356
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,720
for novice breeders, when they

357
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,720
when they come up against this wall,

358
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,360
is exacerbated
by the fact that we really don't

359
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,360
talk about it, that

360
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,840
nobody wants to sort of admit

361
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,880
that you can do everything the right way

362
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,480
and still wind up
with a really bad outcome.

363
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,120
We don't really talk
about our really bad outcomes.

364
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:29,520
I mean, there's so much anti
breeder sentiment.

365
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,200
I can't blame people,

366
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,360
but all I can say here is

367
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:38,800
if I can have one novice person
who's maybe going through this,

368
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:44,040
listen to my podcast
and be encouraged by what I say.

369
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,760
That is a huge win for me.

370
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,320
If you've had a disaster,

371
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,520
chances are

372
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,480
it's not something you did wrong.

373
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,480
You're not alone.

374
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,720
We have all been through it,

375
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,720
whether we talk about it or not,

376
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,520
and you will have good outcomes
in the future.

377
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,640
Don't be afraid to try again.

378
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,600
You will make a difference
with the good puppies

379
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,600
that you put out into this world.

380
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,440
So circling back

381
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,440
to the original question and summing it up

382
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,640
for sure,

383
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,200
doing Puppy Culture or another equivalent

384
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,520
early socialization program

385
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,840
in the first 12 weeks of life

386
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,640
will guarantee the best outcome

387
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,800
given the genetic material of the puppy.

388
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,680
After that,

389
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,760
it's the puppy owner's turn to start

390
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,960
putting input into that genetic box

391
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,680
to start building up

392
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,400
the potential for that puppy,

393
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,640
given again the gift that a good breeder
has given them,

394
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,120
which is sort of a blank slate
that they can just write on.

395
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,480
So there are no guaranteed good outcomes.

396
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,480
There are no guaranteed good outcomes
for a living, breathing creature,

397
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,680
but there are best outcomes.

398
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,920
And as human beings that love
these animals, that's all we can ever do.

399
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,600
Take whatever genetic hands
these puppies are dealt

400
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,960
and work toward best outcomes

401
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,200
for these animals in our care.

402
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,320
I mean, you know,

403
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,320
it's not all gloom and doom.

404
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,360
Chances are,

405
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:49,560
if you do all the right things,
the outcome is going to be really good.

406
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,880
And as a breeder, you're going to make
a lot of puppy owners really happy.

407
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,880
You're you're going to change
a lot of lives for the better.

408
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:00,160
And puppy culture is a big part of that.

409
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,280
Not a guarantee, but

410
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,400
certainly a way to
stack the deck in your favor.

411
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:09,840
If you liked this podcast,

412
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,680
you'll love our course for puppy owners,

413
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,680
available at puppyculture.com.

414
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,200
Breeders.

415
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,320
We have courses for you too
at puppyculture.com

416
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:24,760
Breeders,
do you want to get your puppy owners

417
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,760
started on the right foot
with Puppy Culture?

418
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:34,160
You can give your puppy owners the gift of
our puppy course at a nice discount

419
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,560
when you buy four or more copies

420
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,560
available at puppyculture.com.

421
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,160
Well, that's it for this time.

422
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,440
Thanks for listening. Bye bye.