Harry Mack

00:00:00
Speaker 1: This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You can visit Nora Jones channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones and today I'm playing along with Harry Mack.

00:00:11
Speaker 2: I'm just playing lo wey.

00:00:17
Speaker 1: I'm just playing lone weazy.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

00:00:24
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. I'm Nora and with me is Sarah Oda. Hello, and welcome to our show. Hello.

00:00:30
Speaker 4: Our guest today is the incredible freestyle wrapper who has gone viral for his off the top of the Dome rhymes improvisation. He's truly one of the best out there, Harry Mack. He's built a massive global following through omegal and YouTube doing freestyle sessions. You've seen him everywhere from the Venice boardwalk to Times Square, just going up to strangers and asking for words and making up rhymes in real time. What he does is seriously just nomenal. It's unbelievable. Actually, I'm personally a huge fan. If you can't tell, yes, and his energy is very positive and contagious, and I felt like just doing that here in this room was super fun.

00:01:12
Speaker 1: It was so fun, And yeah, I second everything you said. Everything he does is kind of mind blowing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

00:01:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, and his energy was so great, and he plays drums, but he has not played as much drums as he does has done the freestyling thing, and so for this episode, we definitely talked about him playing drums on a few songs or maybe at least one song, but he ended up playing on everything. Yeah, and that was super fun, super fun. Yeah, yeah, it was.

00:01:41
Speaker 4: We did things a little differently because we were, you know, improvising a lot.

00:01:47
Speaker 1: We used words from.

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Speaker 4: Our crew in the control room to kind of try and throw at him during some of the songs.

00:01:56
Speaker 1: You're gonna hear about his background.

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Speaker 4: How he sort of discovered this superpower that he has. You're going to hear about the amount of energy that it takes mentally and physically to just pull off what he does, especially when he's doing a show. And brain power, like the amount of brain power like just to be a human dictionary all the time.

00:02:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I didn't have the brain power to even trust myself to split out words random words in general, so I had to have a hat full of like, yeah, it's like he and then he has he has two brands.

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Speaker 4: One is thinking of the rhymes while the other one's saying that it's really wild anyway, and keeping with his style, we did all improvised songs.

00:02:45
Speaker 1: So yeah, stay tuned. It was really fun enjoy the episode with Harry mack so hey, thanks for coming.

00:02:52
Speaker 6: Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's it's so awesome to be here.

00:02:55
Speaker 1: It's creepy to me you yeah, likewise, Yeah, it's funny. I mentioned that you're going to be on the show a few people. Cool, and I mean I've been getting a lot of big excitement from oh really from just anyone?

00:03:05
Speaker 6: Oh awesome, yeah, awesome. Well, no, I'm it's it's a it's an honor to be here. Truly. I'm such a fan of you and your musicianship and your artistry. And I actually wasn't aware of your podcast until you reached out and then I had the joy of checking some of it out. Oh cool, and I love it. I listened to the episode that you did with Brian Blade.

00:03:26
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, are you a fan? You're a huge fan.

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Speaker 6: And yeah, I got to see uh Brian Blade with Wayne Shorter when I was when i was young.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. Up in Portland, Oregon, where I'm from, my dad took me to see that show, and so I've been a huge fan of his since then and so cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's in town right now playing.

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Speaker 6: Oh really Yeah, Oh amazing.

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Speaker 1: I think he's playing at Dizsea's the next few nights. Awesome.

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Speaker 6: No, he's so great. And I loved your guys' conversation and yeah, and I checked out you in logic as well. Oh yeah, he's obviously so great.

00:03:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's loved that. So yeah, it's fun for me because I don't ever play with rappers, you know, because like this, I'm glad you were into doing it. Yeah, I'm a big fan of what you do is insane. Oh thank you.

00:04:13
Speaker 6: It's a little crazy. Yeah, well, thank you. No, it's it's awesome. I'm I'm happy to be here.

00:04:17
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I it's always fun to start with music. That's why I asked you to play for a minute. But you want to try a thing.

00:04:25
Speaker 6: Let's try a thing.

00:04:26
Speaker 1: A thing, so you freestyle freestyle? Yes, okay, and you're insane at it.

00:04:33
Speaker 6: We'll see.

00:04:34
Speaker 1: But what do you like to do? Do you have some beats you brought.

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Speaker 6: Or yeah, I brought so I'm open. You know, I'm an improviser, but so I brought like some drum tracks that we can play off the phone.

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Speaker 1: Or you're sitting at the drumm.

00:04:48
Speaker 6: Sitting at it, it feels, you know, like because I'm sitting at the drums, it feels like I should play. So maybe all right, yeah, okay, and I'm going to improvise my lyrics.

00:04:56
Speaker 1: So yeah, so I'll give you stuff. How do you know? I was like, I've seen you do it both ways where people say the thing during the track and then where people give you words before you start.

00:05:09
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I've done it both ways. Okay, I don't know if there's one that you'd be more comfortable with or one that feels more exciting or fun for you.

00:05:17
Speaker 1: Well, when I was thinking about feeding you words while we were playing, I was like, I don't know how he does it because I can't even think of a word every every twelve bars.

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Speaker 6: Yeah I can't either. That's a funny thing when other rappers are like, okay, now you throw me words, and I'm like, wow, this part's way harder to be.

00:05:33
Speaker 1: The actual I have some I asked a cheat, I have a cheat cheeset, or I can just give you Why don't we do the ones where I give him to you first.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, let's do that.

00:05:43
Speaker 1: Okay, this is so new for me, so I love it. I had everyone in our control room write down some stuff.

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Speaker 6: Oh, I love it.

00:05:50
Speaker 1: So we're going to pull it out of a hat. It awesome, okay. Commonplace, commonplace Okay, see is it? Okay?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's almost all okay.

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Speaker 1: Okay, cool because I feel like they were trying to, like get the really complicated words.

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Speaker 6: I like that. Okay, yeah, I like a challenge. Well, commonplace, commonplace, which is like regular, normal, frequently occurring.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay, commonplace extinguish.

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Speaker 6: Extinguish, yes, good, all right, clarify, clarify these feel okay, these are good. Okay, let's get two more.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Parachute, parachute toe, that's mine.

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Speaker 6: That's good. Finally, a one syllable word.

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Speaker 1: I felt like it called for.

00:06:39
Speaker 6: No, It was definitely called for all right. So let me let me summarize. Let me say if I even remember them all commonplace, extinguish, clarify, parachute, and tow. Those are the words.

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Speaker 7: Do you mind?

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Speaker 1: If I play with you?

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Speaker 6: I would love you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I won't get fancy.

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Speaker 6: No, please do your thing.

00:06:54
Speaker 1: This is all, I'll let you start.

00:06:55
Speaker 6: Let's see something simple on the drums, I think so I can hopefully remember these words. Uh here we go, huh yeah, yeah yeah, come on, one to one two, Come on yeah, one to one two, Uh yeah, one to one two. At the dawn, we're gon rocket for you. Listen, kick your free styles out of my face. Have regainst your mental track is about to get laced. I'm about to break you off with the taste. It's nothing new for me. Honestly, it's common place. This is regular. Got the float, They bank it for it. They have to hear it. I let these liprics eminate from a spirit I do. We better to win the mom and man, y'all know why you're bracing to be real, I'm feeling quite calm in this place, So let's do it. We're gonna bring it all together for them in the barn to put the letter kick deliveries out of the clipper rhymes. They couldn't measure reaching that every time I bring this, lift you higher with the fire can never be extinguished. Come on, yeah, and y'all know what, keep it clever compared to fire mistake with shamafa weather, I move like h two woe. So people liquid but went off the mental lima hit y'all with the sickness we all depended. I'm never tending my flow within it. In the competition, I'm winning it off the top of the dome. Win the poor red palms. I'm playing in the long with nor Red Jones skin the popping. We never stopping. We leave it with no option. I'm gonna find up these rhyming concoccious Yeah, you win the better off the top dough and winning around. They know what hit them with the high flows. Yeah, they asking, yo, who is this heavy guy I hopped on the podcast. It's the clever Fire. Just in case you did to note, we gonna make it dope. Here's the rep clarification. Got y'all take it notes, So go w ahead and write it down. You're ready to put the realness. I put the thing in nervous system, put to make you feel this. And they god dig Henry's creations afterwards, they been asking for my clearification. Well love if for month. It's kind of hard to explain. I'm gonna be slipping when i'd be ripping. I go hard with the planes. So when the damn name is go win the round. Y'all know we be getting plenty loop taking wrists like I jump with the pearroshore, I said, not leeping in the net of a pair three sixty five, thinking about to sweet me all year, yeah, and whinning around the microphone. I be controlling. They got the pen the kin like a pearachue with some holes in there. Y'all know if I'm not for tending when I get the rhyme, then constellation. All my scars are in the lime. There seven hundred and forty seven bars. I'm flying, jumping on about the plane, whining, I'm kicking these fries this year. Can y'all no one there provising with fair It provideses.

00:09:33
Speaker 3: So y'all know we.

00:09:34
Speaker 6: Build the plane in the air. Yes, then i'd be adding on. I love the tight rope walk, plucking to the systems and not shine. I'm making pie putting them coming through the speakers, get to lift. They're like refast. It's fraight, eh. I'm making out believers, whinn the fifth the floor, winning the prime. I'm making a feller from their head.

00:09:51
Speaker 3: And they told me it's like Dad Chap when.

00:09:53
Speaker 6: We racket a beat from the type of thing gone on the way to their feet. Listen, can y'all know what chickts? Folks just seeing a rapper over performer. I told them my jazz musician was sticking up be flipping off the top of this A freestyle shortly lasted to the popular list No for Jones and every neck collaboration right now with no procrestitation.

00:10:14
Speaker 1: What it's crazy?

00:10:31
Speaker 3: Oh?

00:10:31
Speaker 6: Thank you? Thank you?

00:10:33
Speaker 1: Wow?

00:10:33
Speaker 6: Did I remember them all?

00:10:34
Speaker 1: I think so. I think I heard all.

00:10:36
Speaker 6: Okay, we're getting a thumbs up there.

00:10:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even if you didn't.

00:10:40
Speaker 6: Incredible, Oh, thank you?

00:10:42
Speaker 1: I mean, where did you come from?

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Speaker 7: How did you do that?

00:10:45
Speaker 6: Yeah? I mean I've been uh, I've been freestyling since I was I think ten or eleven years old. Really, yeah, I mean trying to. My first freestyles were not very great.

00:10:56
Speaker 1: What started it?

00:10:57
Speaker 6: I think so for me it was probably my first first exposure to it was one O six in Park Freestyle Friday on on b et Okay. So it was like a freestyle battle show that would happen, and it was like every week, you know, the winner would come back on the show and and at the end of it all, like whoever won the whole thing would get a record deal.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

00:11:18
Speaker 6: Yeah. And so there was this incredible rapper and freestyler and now comedian and many other things named Jin mc gin who like won the whole thing. And we were super into watching this and following along. Every week we would go over to my friend Brady's house and and uh and watch freestyle Friday. And it was just mind blowing to us. I mean, so I was, you know, in sixth grade, I guess at this point, and it was just mind blowing to us that they were able to come up with this stuff in the moment without any planning, and it was so electric, without like any special effects or it wasn't overproduced in any way. It was so raw with little slip ups and mistakes as a part of it, you know. Yeah, and and it was just so exciting to us. So that was my first exposure, and then we started trying to do our own little freestyles, just you know, little twelve year olds in Portland, Oregon who.

00:12:10
Speaker 1: Were just that sounds so fun.

00:12:11
Speaker 6: It was awesome.

00:12:12
Speaker 1: That a fun time to be a kid, you know, to be doing now with your friends.

00:12:18
Speaker 6: It was so amazing. Some of the best times of my life for sure.

00:12:23
Speaker 1: A lot of laughing and oh man, yeah, and like.

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Speaker 6: We weren't good at it, you know, but it didn't matter. We were just so obsessed with trying anyway. And I think that's such a beautiful thing too, is like I'm grateful that I started trying to figure out how to freestyle when I was so young, because I didn't yet have all that like, you know, self critique and inner judgment that gets in the way so often now, like as an adult, like it's hard for me to learn new things now because I'm like, oh that's not good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you stop yourself from really diving into things percent.

00:12:56
Speaker 6: But back then, we didn't care. We were just like this is awesome, you know. Yeah, And I'm sure it wasn't good, but it was. But it was just filling us up with so much life and so much excitement.

00:13:07
Speaker 1: So and any of the friends you got into it with, you're still tight.

00:13:11
Speaker 6: With, Yeah, I'm still yeah.

00:13:12
Speaker 1: Do they do it or are they?

00:13:14
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah? I mean yeah. My one of my close friends, Brady, who I grew up doing music with, we had a group together back then in sixth grade called State of Mind, and he was the DJ and and producer and uh, and I was the MC and uh yeah, the two of you, the two of us at first, and then when we got to high school, we kind of expanded the group because you know, in high school, it was like all the local middle schools kind of joined together. The high school was a bigger school, so all of a sudden, there were all these new kids that we met. And so then our friends Jack and Alan joined the group as well. Uh and so Alan was my partner in rhyme. He was the other rapper in the group, and then Jack was another DJ and producer. So it was the four of us.

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Speaker 1: That's great.

00:13:56
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And it was such an awesome time and I learned so much. And those are some of my closest friends. Alana is no longer living, Rest in peace to him, but he's yeah, but just was an amazing writer and freestyler.

00:14:09
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Yeah, so you egged each other on. Oh it's inspired and also kind of competitive.

00:14:16
Speaker 6: Yeah, friendly competition. Well yeah, because I never like. The funny thing is he would start almost every song. I'm such a bounce off others type of person, you know, so I was never really like the initial concept or idea. That's why it's funny. When when you were reaching out like, oh, what do you want to do for the music? When we're on the show, I'm always kind of like, oh, I don't know what, Like what do you want to do?

00:14:36
Speaker 5: You know?

00:14:37
Speaker 6: Or if you start something then I'll know what to do.

00:14:40
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know.

00:14:40
Speaker 6: But it was the same way with with State of Mind. With my group back then, it was always a lawn who who and he went by a mighty miss as in Miscellaneous am I s C. It was so great at coming up with ideas and concepts for songs, and so he would do his verse first and be like, Yo, here's my verse. It's about this, and always so great. Yeah, And then it was easy for me because then I was like, okay, okay, I can add my two cents.

00:15:05
Speaker 1: You would take it and run with it, probably.

00:15:07
Speaker 6: Exactly, yeah, exactly, but I never wanted to. Once I heard his part, I was like, this is so great. I have to bring it, you know. So it was that friendly competition of like, never wanted to let the song down. Yeah you know.

00:15:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it just elevates everything when you have someone like that who eggs you on and just gets it going.

00:15:25
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. So I learned so much from him, and he was so ahead of his time too. Like back then, I didn't understand what some of his lyrics were about really, but I was like, oh, but it sounded good. So I was like, oh, maybe this is just like some kind of like ear candy thing where it sounds good and it's sort of abstract and you're not necessarily supposed to understand. And then it's interesting. Since he passed, I went back and listened to a lot of the old music that we had done together, and it was like, wow, Like now I feel like I get what he was talking about at thirty five. Yeah, now I understand what he was writing when we were fifteen. It's kind of amazing, that is.

00:16:00
Speaker 1: I feel like that happens with a lot of music that I didn't understand as a kid that I loved. Oh, same, Yeah, but I didn't get it at all.

00:16:07
Speaker 6: Yeah.

00:16:08
Speaker 1: I think sometimes till I.

00:16:09
Speaker 6: Was older, it's like you're not ready for it sometimes, right, you.

00:16:12
Speaker 1: Haven't lived just that life yet, exactly, Yeah, exactly.

00:16:16
Speaker 6: Yeah.

00:16:16
Speaker 1: I feel like rap, especially hip hop also, but like rap specifically, there's such a competitive nature to it. Yes, it's a whole other thing.

00:16:27
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's unique to I think to to the genre, and I embrace it full on. It's really funny, like if I'm talking to people and oh, yeah, I'm a rapper, it's like, oh, what do you rap about? It's like, oh, well, basically rap about how I'm the ship and everybody else is worse than me.

00:16:43
Speaker 8: You know.

00:16:43
Speaker 6: It sounds horrible, but maybe if you're not, if you're not you know, immersed in the genre, if you don't understand it, you might be like, okay, so you're just like a really arrogant person.

00:16:52
Speaker 5: But that's not at all.

00:16:53
Speaker 6: It's not that though. I think, well, you know, and obviously you know, taking the history into account too, it's like hip hop even like the origins, you know, late seventies, early eighties, it was all about the battle. Even before there were rappers. It was like, you know, the bee Boy cruise and you know, the bee Boys and be girls with break dancers, like going head to head on the on the linoleum, like who has the iller style, you know, and then the DJ battles and then of course eventually the rap battles, and there's this braggadocious energy to the music that is I think really beautiful and I think for me, it's like an expression of self love and like self empowerment positivity. Yeah yeah, and it's like it's lifting yourself up, and especially if you look at where hip hop comes from, you know, which like some of the harshest environments, you know, like late seventies, like you know, the ghettos of New York, the South Bronx. It's like for a lot of people who's like a battle to survive, you know. So like using the art form to bolster yourself up and lift yourself up and put yourself up high, I think is a beautiful thing.

00:17:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sort of where all that comes from probably, Yeah. Yeah, it's so funny though to me coming from a different world. Yeah, and it's like wow, so different.

00:18:01
Speaker 8: Yeah.

00:18:01
Speaker 6: Can you imagine if you were singing it's like I'm the goat you other singers.

00:18:06
Speaker 1: So well, yeah, I know it's so fun Yeah, like maybe that would be fun.

00:18:11
Speaker 6: Well it's also funny. Yeah, I mean, I awesome, I would love that. Yeah, I'm here for that. I'm here for that. But no, but I think, uh, it's uh yeah, I think it's a it's a cool thing, but it's funny because people see my videos and often there's this sense of positivity and this feeling of positivity, you know, that gets pointed out quite a lot of people say, oh, I love your stuff because you know you're so positive. Oh yeah, yeah, and and I think that's awesome. And I do try to be really positive. I try to present, you know, something that feels hopeful and that feels uplifting, especially to the other people that are in the video that are like taking their time out to collaborate with me and give me these words and inspire my freestyle. And anytime I incorporate people, I'm trying to do it in a way that is positive. But it's it's kind of funny and ironic in a way because if you just read the transcription of my lyrics, it's like, you're so positive, and it's like, well, I said, like I'm better than everybody. They all suck and they could never match me.

00:19:05
Speaker 1: You also said that, Ye, it's positive. Feeling is positive, your energy is positive.

00:19:12
Speaker 8: Ye yeah, yeah, yeah, I.

00:19:35
Speaker 6: Don't know for it.

00:19:44
Speaker 2: We're gonna be same cam soon. We're gone the same cam soon because we're gonna be sh.

00:20:10
Speaker 6: H h m.

00:20:17
Speaker 8: Hm, m hm h m hm. Yeah.

00:20:30
Speaker 6: We're gonna be sinking soon. They better be making room, as in now we're gonna float on top. Yeah, when need be broyning, y'all know we sitting the spy. I'm coming to with the vision. Open gates. Time to listen. We're gonna be spent right off at the top of my rose of precision. You know we're making it happen, but be slacking taking the action. We'll not be rhyming up top of causing the chain reaction.

00:20:57
Speaker 3: Ready to hear it.

00:20:58
Speaker 6: They love it the way that spending I lift the brown, the fine, all the lots of physicess when I'm fitting something too profound. They they didn't know we're probing the fire. They know it now for about to make it happen.

00:21:09
Speaker 3: Some way and somehow.

00:21:11
Speaker 6: Gonna be sinking soon. We're trying to keep it the float no over Jones and he read steak in the whole.

00:21:18
Speaker 2: Gonna be singing soon. We're gonna saybody.

00:21:44
Speaker 7: Yeah, uh.

00:21:48
Speaker 6: Listen, Yeah, We're gonna be sinking soon unless we can channel the love, unless we can find a way to finally rise a everyone stopping to judge, nobody knowing what's real, nobody taking the time, nobody knowing the deal. Tough for some conversation, tough for some people to listen to, for us all to come together. We got a bunt of a vision. We gotta find a way to stop the crash and stop the collision. Yeah, might not be rhyming. Go when you bring like a mental decision, no more division, weight not be wrapping up, bringing the people together, just like we do with collaboration, forming the bart of his leather, hoping that either shad or the kind of lasting forever We're gonna say soon lest we can overcome it. I know we fail the favorite times. It's too much to stomach. I don't want to see us plumbing to the bottom. So we do like macking North for Jonson, keep it laughed and co.

00:22:45
Speaker 7: Same SA.

00:22:54
Speaker 6: So go go.

00:23:06
Speaker 9: Say, oh my god, that's fun, super fun.

00:23:40
Speaker 8: Co.

00:23:41
Speaker 1: Yeah I can see this all day. Yeah, like, don't get the drummagine now please.

00:23:47
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, this is dope. Yeah. I played with my fingers too, because I wanted to do something something kind of I don't know, something different, but but that was amazing. And then I felt like on the first verse I was just kind of rapping and then and then because I'm just settling in, and then the second time around, I was like, oh, yeah, we're going to be sinking soon, like let me talk about that.

00:24:07
Speaker 1: Yeah that's positive, Yeah, which I love, you know, and I think it's true.

00:24:12
Speaker 6: I think it's a really uh wild time that we're living through right now. So it's yeah, let's try not to sink.

00:24:18
Speaker 8: You know.

00:24:19
Speaker 1: Yeah I'm hoping.

00:24:21
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh that's awesome.

00:24:26
Speaker 5: That was cool.

00:24:26
Speaker 1: Yeah that song is usually like a little swingy, but I was like, it kind of feels good, like like bordering it. I'm not sure.

00:24:34
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was perfect.

00:24:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was cool. So the drums have you always played?

00:24:39
Speaker 6: I've played the drums for basically as long as I've been trying to figure out how to freestyle, for as long as I've been loving.

00:24:46
Speaker 1: Hip hop in middle school.

00:24:47
Speaker 6: Both. Yeah, like ten or eleven years old, I think for both. The drums, for sure, I started when I was ten in fifth grade. My first instrument was the violin, playing when I was seven, Yeah, which is a really hard instrument. Yeah. I just remembered, like yeah, because it took like a year to get a good sound.

00:25:07
Speaker 8: You know.

00:25:07
Speaker 6: There was the thing about the it was like the barrier to entry is so difficult, it is.

00:25:10
Speaker 1: It really weeds out a lot of people.

00:25:12
Speaker 6: Yeah, you have to be patient, and I might might have been particularly slow, but I just remember, like, the first time you take the boat of the string, it sounds horrible.

00:25:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I was trying to nails on a chuck.

00:25:23
Speaker 6: Yeah, really awful. So it's not that inviting when it's like, okay, well, eventually you might be able to produce a nice, nice sound. But I did enjoy playing the violin and then but I think I always really wanted to play the drums. Yeah, and I had I've always felt like I have this rhythm inside of me.

00:25:40
Speaker 1: Well, you have to to do what you're doing.

00:25:42
Speaker 6: Yeah, oh yeah. A freestyle is is like a drum solo with words.

00:25:46
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:25:46
Speaker 1: And when you get to those fast triplets and you're doing all.

00:25:49
Speaker 6: That stuff, was like, ah, yeah, well and it's a huge cheat code too for me as a freestyler. To have this background as a drummer and the fact that I kind of started both at the same time, they've always sort of been inter for me and they've sort of informed each other in different ways. And yeah, I think you know, because I played jazz for many years and gigged as a jazz.

00:26:09
Speaker 1: Drummer, okay, straight ahead sort of yeah.

00:26:12
Speaker 6: Like straight ahead yeah, lots I mean, you know, like bar restaurant kind of gigs, freelancing, lots of like like piano trio type style. Yeah, we too, Yeah, so I know that's why so awesome. Yeah we share that in commons. So cool and so yeah. But you know, a jazz drummer or really a jazz musician of any kind, like it's like we're improvising in rhythm, right, and for you also in harmony and melody, but for the drums, it's like I'm trying to tell a story by improvising in rhythm, and so having that as sort of something that can underpin my freestyles is incredibly helpful because when I first started freestyling, it's like it took a long time to be able to say something meaningful while I was improvising as a rapper at first, it's really just about creating this rhythmic feel, and like in many ways, it's like just don't stop, don't stop moving your mouth. You know, if you can create some kind of rhythm, you'll find it eventually. And so I feel like jazz drumming and just drumming in general gave me that kind of just that rhythmic underpinning.

00:27:13
Speaker 1: You're just in the flow and you're just you're like swimming in the current and you don't.

00:27:17
Speaker 6: Stop exactly right. Yeah, it's like you don't know what you're going to say next, but if you just keep flowing.

00:27:22
Speaker 1: You'll find it. If you don't, then you're not going to say anything exactly might as well just keep going at school. Yeah, And did you go to school for music?

00:27:32
Speaker 5: I did?

00:27:33
Speaker 6: Yeah, I went to so. I grew up in Portland, Oregon, and then I moved down to Los Angeles in two thousand and eight and I studied. I was part of the Jazz Studies program at USC.

00:27:43
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

00:27:44
Speaker 6: Yeah.

00:27:44
Speaker 1: For how did you finish?

00:27:46
Speaker 6: I did? Yeah? I did my undergrad there. Wow, twenty twelve.

00:27:49
Speaker 1: Okay, so you really did it?

00:27:51
Speaker 6: I really did it? Yeah?

00:27:52
Speaker 7: Cool?

00:27:52
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, it was really cool.

00:27:54
Speaker 1: And were you freestyling all the while in LA.

00:27:57
Speaker 8: Like that was?

00:27:59
Speaker 6: Yeah, and gigging and trying to figure it out? Yeah, one hundred percent. I was kind of saying yes to everything, you know, and uh, but it's funny because as much as I was just like really focused on drums, and I was practicing for you know, several hours every day, and I was doing all my ensembles and all the other course work and stuff that I was doing there as a drummer. It's like I was doing just as much work as a freestyler, but just in the dorm room with my friends. Yeah, like just hours, like literally like nightly. Wow. Because once they figured it out, it was like I lived in a suite, so it was like there were three separate rooms, two to a room. So there were six of us in there, and we all kind of like became friends freshman year while we were living there at USC and none of them were musicians. I was the only musician there.

00:28:42
Speaker 1: Oh, they weren't in the music they weren't in the.

00:28:43
Speaker 6: Music program, but one of them played guitar and they were somewhat musical. But I was the only person studying music and uh. But then as soon as they learned that I could freestyle, it was just like every night they'd be like, do do this beat? Like wrap over this beat, Okay, let's go, and it just so yeah, it was awesome. And then they would challenge me and be like do one about this, do one about that, or like hold things up, you know, And I was just like, I love this.

00:29:05
Speaker 1: This have been the main attraction at parties.

00:29:08
Speaker 6: Yes, for real. It was so dope and actually it was really cool. I so I went to, uh there's this really incredible neo soul group called Moonchild, which I've heard them. They're great, and uh so I went to school with them, Amber Navrin and and Just Mattsen and Max Brick that's a Moonchild and we all went to school together. And so I had a band with some of them. I think all of them were part of it at one time or another, as well as others. And so it was like a it was my friends from the jazz program, and it was like a full band. Like it's like we were really inspired by the roots, you know, and trying to do something similar and so and I was the front person as a rapper, but I would just improvise all of my parts. So we would have like a chorus that was pre written and the music would be pre composed. But then when it was time for the verses, it would just be like an open section, like if I was doing horn solo or something, but instead I was freestyling, and we became this really popular party band because it was so like interesting and yeah, I was like rapping about what was happening at the party. I'd be like this guys way too drunk, you know whatever, and it was so dope and but and it was a lot of fun. And at one point we were doing like three or four parties a week, and we were just like this super in demand usc A band.

00:30:25
Speaker 1: That's so fun.

00:30:26
Speaker 6: It was awesome.

00:30:27
Speaker 1: Sounds like you've had a good time.

00:30:29
Speaker 6: I've definitely had a good time.

00:30:30
Speaker 7: Yeah.

00:30:30
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I learned a ton doing that too, just because you know previously, like with my group stayed of mind that I was mentioning before, it was always we freestyled because we loved it. But for our records, we wrote all the parts, you know, and when we performed live, it was mostly like written material, and then the freestyle was like the spice on top, like we might do like a five minute freestyle interlude at some point for fun. But then in college it kind of like flipped where it was like, oh, no, I'm really just going to go out there, no plan.

00:31:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you probably got better and better at it.

00:31:03
Speaker 6: Right totally, And so Yeah, it was like full immersion and I was just doing it as often as possible.

00:31:09
Speaker 1: That's the best practice. Oh yeah, did you go to do you now go to sleep? Like are you able to turn off?

00:31:17
Speaker 9: Yeah?

00:31:18
Speaker 1: Are you happy?

00:31:19
Speaker 6: No, it's a good question.

00:31:21
Speaker 7: Yeah.

00:31:21
Speaker 6: No, I've wondered myself. Back in college, I didn't sleep that much, and I don't know how I did that.

00:31:26
Speaker 8: Now.

00:31:26
Speaker 6: I love sleep, yeah, and I try to get it when I can. But but yeah, it is a funny thing. Like when I wake up in the morning, it's a clear slate, you know, and there's no rhymes happening. But once I start it kind of like it's like flip it a switch, and then you can't turn it off till you go to sleep, because it does just kind of churn in the background. And like, especially when we go out and do you know, I do videos where I'm like out in the street and I'm interacting with strangers and I'll ask them to like throw me words and suggestions kind of like what we did at the beginning of the podcast, and I'll turn it into a freestyle. And after we do like a few hours of that out in the world, it's like it's hard for me to turn it off.

00:32:05
Speaker 1: You're just like vibrating.

00:32:06
Speaker 7: Yeah.

00:32:07
Speaker 6: Everyone, Look, I'm like that looks like a good group. They're like, we turn the cameras off. It's done, you know, Like okay, like like a restaurant sign, what rhymes with that?

00:32:16
Speaker 5: Runs with that?

00:32:16
Speaker 6: Like here's what I would say, you know, Oh I should incorporate that.

00:32:19
Speaker 1: Oh my god, when you're watching TV? Do you like a TV show? Could do you just do it?

00:32:24
Speaker 6: Sometimes? Washing the dishes great time to freestyle in the shower, but then it becomes very repetitive because you're always doing the same thing. So it's like how many times can you run?

00:32:34
Speaker 3: True?

00:32:34
Speaker 6: You know I've already done that. You've come up with like crazier and crazier options to rhyme about in the shower. You're like the route this is really grout work.

00:32:44
Speaker 1: Like yeah, So you do you write more prepared stuff ever lately? Like or are you pretty just focused on the freestyling.

00:32:52
Speaker 6: I'm very focused on the freestyling. Uh, But I I do also write, and I've been sort of experimenting and trying to find out what kind of like process feels good for me, because to be honest, it's it's challenging for me, you know, to figure out how to be effective as a songwriter and how to be effective like in a more traditional studio environment. I'm such an improviser, yeah, and that's always what's drawn me to music, like from the very beginning, jazz. That's why I love jazz. And I mean I remember, like I have all these early memories of music, and they all involve improvisation. Like I remember one time. I have to ask my parents because I have no idea where we were, but we were at some kind of like almost in my memory, it's like a trade show type environment, but I don't know if that's accurate. But there was like a musician there with the piano and he saw me and I was like enamored with what he was doing. He was like, oh, come sit up here, and he was like, you can play play any of the black notes, you know, and he played something in like I guess like flat minors already played something where else and he can't. Yeah's something where that scale would work. And I was just a little kid, but I was like okay, and he was playing a chord progression beneath me, and I just remember I started playing and I was like, I get I get it.

00:34:13
Speaker 1: It wired. Maybe it wired your whole path and changed your whole I.

00:34:17
Speaker 6: Feel like it did because I definitely was blissing out while I was doing it. This is amazing somehow, I'm like a good musician. You get this, mom, Yeah, exactly. And I'm sure if luckily they didn't record it, because it probably wasn't very good, but my memory huge. In my memory, it was huge and and so but anyway, bringing it back to your question, I'm so I'm such an improviser through and through, and so sometimes it's hard for me to funnel that energy into something that needs to be kind of honed and refined.

00:34:48
Speaker 1: Well, you have a superpower and it doesn't. And it's sometimes when you have something like like it's crazy, you've worked on it. It's a gift. But you've also like you've put in all the work. Yeah, and I mean it's it's incredible. Oh thanks, So pivoting into something that is maybe more the norm, Yeah, yeah, I mean maybe maybe it would be fun, but maybe it doesn't have to happen exactly.

00:35:18
Speaker 6: And that's you know, it's it's funny you say that because that has been sort of the I guess like the challenge for me since I started like really having success at this as an improviser and becoming known. It was like immediately because I kind of stumbled into it. You know, my friend way back in December twenty sixteen, my friend Jacob Mann, who's also a great jazz pianist and composer, and he had a big band at the time, and anyway, he did a big band record and he wanted to promote it, and so he like chopped the beat out of his He sampled his big band recording and made a hip hop beat and had me freestyle over it and filmed it on his phone and posted it on YouTube. That was in twenty sixteen, and that was the first exposure to anybody outside of like my local community really that ever heard me freestyle. And the video like got one hundred thousand views or something like that, and I was like, this is amazing, this is amazing. We spend twenty minutes doing this. I didn't even think anything of it. What would happen if I really dove in And so that was the catalyst for me to start making my own videos and really invest everything I have into growing this. But as soon as I started kind of having that success with the videos. It was like immediate where it was like okay, cool, what are you going to do? Like how are you going to pivot?

00:36:33
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:36:33
Speaker 6: That was sort of the conversation around it.

00:36:35
Speaker 1: Other people, Yeah, like in the comments.

00:36:38
Speaker 6: Or even like when I start, I would, you know, because the videos kind of popped off and I would get to connect with people in the music industry and managers and people at record labels and producers and stuff like that and just have meetings and conversations. But I always felt kind of uncomfortable because it was all about like, Okay, well, how do we take this and make it next? Yeah, and how do we make it fit in with what is sort of a more traditional path kind of like how do you you need an album? You know, and you need a big single right right?

00:37:07
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, I don't need that.

00:37:09
Speaker 6: Yeah maybe, But at the time, you know, I was younger, and I was so kind of like I didn't know anything, and I still don't. I only know enough to know I don't know anything. But but back then especially I was kind of impressionable, and I was like, oh, I think I probably do need this, yeah, probably, right?

00:37:24
Speaker 1: They seem to know, like, well, it also seems like a milestone that you want to hit at some point probably, yeah.

00:37:30
Speaker 6: Yeah, And part of me does want to, you know, make like a great album, you know, and and but but I do wrestle with that in my head. It's like at the same like you say, it's like I have this thing that's special that clearly has a lot of energy around and then people enjoy it and I enjoy it, and I've invested a lot of time in it, and maybe that's enough.

00:37:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you could make a great album and improvise, I think. So you just got to get some cool musicians that you love to play with and just bounce it around and recording.

00:37:57
Speaker 7: You know what I mean.

00:37:58
Speaker 1: Like you don't know, but I it, I get it.

00:38:00
Speaker 6: It's like if you want to be a part of my album, heck yeah.

00:38:05
Speaker 1: But you know, I feel like also, times are different and you don't need that anymore. Yeah, it's crazy.

00:38:12
Speaker 6: It's a different landscape.

00:38:14
Speaker 1: It's really different, and you've had to navigate it. When did you start putting videos out shortly after that, like twenty seventeen.

00:38:21
Speaker 6: Yeah, twenty seventeen, Yeah, at the beginning. It's funny that video happened with my friend Jacob, and then I was just blown away because I wasn't a social media person like at all, and I didn't even have I didn't know what having a YouTube channel or subscriber was. It just wasn't in my worldview at all. So I just remember I called him and I was like, can we get lunch? And we got together and I was like, what do you think I should do?

00:38:42
Speaker 8: Yeah?

00:38:43
Speaker 6: Yeah, because he was already doing the YouTube thing and he's very funny as well, so he had lots of like kind of like comedic videos on his channel that had done well in addition to his music stuff, and so he was like, man, just make a YouTube channel and start making videos that seem cool to you of you freestyling, and you'll be fine.

00:38:59
Speaker 8: You know.

00:38:59
Speaker 5: Yeah.

00:38:59
Speaker 1: I think that people overthink it, yeah a lot, and they think it has to be like the ultimate video. But I think what people connect to is the human quality of it. Yes, and you already have. What you're doing is amazing, so it's thanks, you know what I mean. I feel like it's better.

00:39:15
Speaker 6: That way totally. Yeah. I mean, and if you know the overthinking thing, you just end up never making anything in my experience. Yes, you know, it's like I just for years and that was the whole thing. Is like I'd been freestyling and rapping and loving it and for so long before. And I had my group in high school and that was great. But that was that felt easy because I had my best friends with me. Yes, that's different, you know, it's different, and we were just hanging out. It was what we wanted to do anyway, you know, It's like we don't want to do this homework. We want to go do this wrap thing, you know. But then once I was kind of like out on my own and I didn't have my crew anymore, and like my homies who I came up with doing it, I felt like, you know, nervous. I didn't know how to step into being like a solo artist and and how to like kind of pay my own way, and so I would just overthink myself out of ever doing anything, you know. And it took until my friend Jake, it was like, here, come do this thing favor to him.

00:40:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:40:08
Speaker 6: Yeah, I didn't even do it for me, I just did it to I was like, Oh, if this is going to help you out, sure, And that kind of opened my eyes to it, but yeah, totally. I mean, and that's one of the big things for me too, is like it's why sort of like revising things and like really like refining ideas can be challenging because sometimes I'm just like, I'm never going to finish it. You know, it's never going to be right.

00:40:30
Speaker 1: It's hard to focus on things. Yes, for a long period of time.

00:40:33
Speaker 6: Oh my god.

00:40:34
Speaker 1: For me, I've realized more and more I love playing music, but if I have to write something out or write a chart for something, or learn something, that's hard. Yeah, it's hard for me to focus on it. So, you know, even doing this podcast, like sometimes I get in my head about learning songs if that somebody has picked or that I've picked for myself, and I put it off and I put it off, and then I get nervous about being prepared. But then when I get in the room and you're playing music with someone, it feels like, oh, yeah, I know how to do this, yes, you know, and it's easier when you're just doing it. Yes, So getting psyched up for something musical or creative, I feel like is just sort of anti productive.

00:41:18
Speaker 6: I agree so much. It resonates so much. It's crazy. And I've been thinking about this a lot lately too, because I do the same thing, I get really worked up in my head and I start getting nervous, and I suddenly it's like, wait, I don't even know how to do this city. Why have they chosen me? Like, why have they chosen me for this opportunity? Like I don't even know what this is. Yeah, and I think it's like the whole talking about it.

00:41:40
Speaker 1: Thing, you know, Yeah, don't talk about it, just be about it.

00:41:43
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly.

00:41:44
Speaker 1: It's like I don't read, you know, people talking about music that much because I'd rather just listen to it.

00:41:51
Speaker 6: Yeah, there was this thing and I don't know if it was legit. I thought it was legit at the time, but it was like a list of kind of likes to be a part of the Londious Monk's band. Did you ever see this?

00:42:03
Speaker 8: No?

00:42:04
Speaker 1: No, I did see it, but yeah, yeah, tell it so I had.

00:42:07
Speaker 6: Like various like you know, his requirements basically, and it was like I think it was written in all caps. I haven't looked at it in a long time. Hopefully it's real because it was great. But it was one of them was like I think it said talking about music is like dancing about architecture. Yes, like what's the point kind of.

00:42:24
Speaker 8: You know, like.

00:42:26
Speaker 1: We're talking about it?

00:42:27
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly.

00:42:29
Speaker 1: This is different.

00:42:30
Speaker 6: This is totally different. I feel comfortable here. I'm sitting at the drums. I feel good. No, and it as a place, and I love talking with other musicians and talking with other creatives.

00:42:38
Speaker 1: It's different. It's different if it's.

00:42:40
Speaker 6: Talking through like what I'm gonna do? It's okay, so like what side of the stage do you want to stand on? Or like so how are you gonna intro this? And like what's the transition from this song to this song? It's like, man, I don't even know if I know how to make music anymore.

00:42:51
Speaker 8: Yeah.

00:42:52
Speaker 1: And I asked Brian Blade once we were doing a song that was like five and then seven, and I said, how do you count that? He goes, oh, I don't count. And I was like, thank you, Brian Blade, thanks awesome giving me permission to not count.

00:43:05
Speaker 6: That's awesome. Yeah, that's so, that's so great. Yeah, yeah, one percent. And I always say to people like that's why I hated. Once the videos started popping off, then I would get to go in studios with producers, and I was grateful for the opportunities and everybody was trying to help me and that's awesome. But it would just be like, okay, cool, Like do you like this beat? It's like, yeah, I like it. Then it's just playing on loop and I'm sitting there like with my notesap on my phone with like a blinking cursor on a couch while they like are tweaking the beat a little bit or doing other things, and I just remember just sitting there like in a cloud of anxiety and just being like I don't know how to wrap. And then as soon and I would just remember being like every time I get on a mic and start wrapping, then I know how to wrap, but until then I have no idea how to do it.

00:43:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know what I mean? It's muscle memory because you put in all the work, but like you can't think.

00:43:50
Speaker 6: About it one hundred percent. And I follow and I bounce off the cues, you know. It's like when the beat drops and then I start going uh yeah, then I'm like okay, yeah, now I know what I'm doing. And the bodies a big part of it.

00:44:01
Speaker 1: You're a mirror to what's happening. And just like you're just dancing at that point.

00:44:08
Speaker 6: But I've never been somebody that could just like look at a blank page and dream up something incredible and write it down. And but I have such admiration for people who can do that.

00:44:18
Speaker 1: And yeah, but you do do that, you just don't put it on a page.

00:44:22
Speaker 6: Yes, that's true.

00:44:23
Speaker 1: It's the same thing.

00:44:25
Speaker 6: That's the thing.

00:44:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, it really is.

00:44:29
Speaker 6: Thank you. That's awesome and that you know it.

00:44:32
Speaker 1: Thank you.

00:44:32
Speaker 6: That makes you feel good. Yeah, for sure, that makes you feel good.

00:44:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just the way you're thinking about it. Yes, and everybody thinks about it differently.

00:44:40
Speaker 6: Yeah. Wow, can we do something like that?

00:44:44
Speaker 1: Oh damn, that's nice.

00:44:46
Speaker 7: Yeah, cranium, y'all know what it is? Playing along there we go.

00:45:15
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, he's not a human. Mac Get is alien. Composed verses directly.

00:45:21
Speaker 7: From my craney.

00:45:22
Speaker 6: Um, y'all know, I do it right from the mine when I'm flipping right off at the metal. You know why I cite him with rhymes.

00:45:28
Speaker 7: Come on, Claren, I'm gonna.

00:45:30
Speaker 6: Last forever versus off the metal. Best believe the sound clever? Yeah, flowing the vine, so whoping up your heart to this macking Dorver Jones going hard for this listen helix. Yeah, we gonna make you fail this. He was a getting my cheese ringing in my double heelis spending back of a minute. What did he just say? I mean to say this rhythm moving through my DNA. Yeah, on the mic, and then I own the zone. I got hip hop beats and my chrome and zones. Hay track to getting and y'all know why begin to rhyme me in the crowd the double helix?

00:46:04
Speaker 3: How we in the.

00:46:04
Speaker 5: Twurm loot boot loot boot bot.

00:46:22
Speaker 6: M o ot. Yeah, I'm gonna rocket on the true joint, they said, Harry MACI is wag. That's a mule point. I'm gonna break it death for everyone that's watching before you set up to me. I'm better use cau shit yeah for me, and truly ain't nothing to change the pronunciation. Then I hit the mule button, bring it back again. Then we turning the death. Didn't he mike that grip? Don't know I'm burning the doe. I'm can't at the top of this.

00:46:49
Speaker 3: No mule points after when a rhyme like.

00:46:52
Speaker 6: This, whack it gets injecte burn this, Yeah.

00:46:56
Speaker 3: I burn this, I keep the eye this and burn all.

00:47:01
Speaker 6: Competition quickly getting sent away freestyle novelist to call me earnest timing way h Man got the medal win to make the point, combined with Norah Jones cooking up these crazy joints, keep the earnest man and keep it up there. If my name is submitted, I never signed a stadium depending. Y'all know what's up.

00:47:19
Speaker 3: We're gonna keep it spending with the boat care.

00:47:21
Speaker 6: Fling right up with the men and winnu.

00:47:22
Speaker 7: But we from it.

00:47:23
Speaker 3: We're looking the goat man.

00:47:24
Speaker 6: I come the type of dish I ride to the pocket list. We're gonna turn it off the top.

00:47:28
Speaker 3: Of the brain.

00:47:28
Speaker 6: I feel like the main will stop this.

00:47:31
Speaker 5: Who come on serotoning?

00:47:35
Speaker 6: We really zone it. This style is the one.

00:47:38
Speaker 3: Then I'm owning who's enough to double mean? Then you're serving.

00:47:41
Speaker 6: Tone me when I found I got the upmost inventive flos, got.

00:47:46
Speaker 3: Your brains making out the happy chemic.

00:47:48
Speaker 6: Goals, stoning posting through your bands. Now with the mental change it, I'll never be bringing the same style. I know we take beyond h mac are going deep down't know when the kind of lyrish I the spending cheap, I be that rhyme and free separatone in this dad he posted and win his rhyming. Y'all know, we goes and flows a deeper. We gonna take it them, make them more aware.

00:48:10
Speaker 3: I wait off the mantle, made no need to prepare.

00:48:13
Speaker 6: Getting cracking like a step when they spitting observed yo bird, and we went at least one more word clever clever writ they heard off the top of serve. You best believe it.

00:48:24
Speaker 3: Spending the burden, my.

00:48:25
Speaker 6: F it might disturb y'allll be clever, but with the bird playing over spent and lyrics in the your mostnserd.

00:48:31
Speaker 3: Way, can't blighty quite don't like me?

00:48:34
Speaker 6: They might flow, but y'all know they not don't like me. Said this is back in Northy Jones and we slaying the song.

00:48:40
Speaker 3: Ain't not playing. I'm just playing the laws and I was playing in the lawn.

00:48:49
Speaker 1: Yeah it's like us so fun.

00:48:53
Speaker 6: You do the fast one, Yeah, yeah, yeah, a little double time, you know, Yeah.

00:49:00
Speaker 1: That's great. How many times a week do you do these videos? At this point? Do you take breaks?

00:49:06
Speaker 6: Or yeah?

00:49:06
Speaker 1: Do you bank them?

00:49:07
Speaker 6: Do you like kind of we usually kind of ebbs and flows, so we'll kind of try to batch. It usually ends up working like that where we batch a lot of videos together when the whole team is together. You know, my team is kind of is semi remote. We live in different places and so, but we'll we're all together, like when I'm on tour, and so that's a good opportunity to try to film videos when we're in different cities and stuff go out in the streets. Yeah, it's the only thing with that is I have to just be mindful of like my voice and the whole you're going to play at night. Yeah, the vocal care element, which is I would I probably need to ask you about that because that's been my biggest thing, Like my achilles heel.

00:49:49
Speaker 1: Is my really Yeah, you lose it a lot.

00:49:52
Speaker 6: I used to lose it a lot, and then I got really scared about that because it's like a do you ever lose your voice rarely?

00:50:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome, but I well, I sing louder now, but I mean I sing kind of quiet. Yeah, but I feel like I used to lose it if I was going to a bar and talking and told a lot. Yeah, hanging out, Yes, in a loud restaurant at a bar, that's what really does it totally.

00:50:16
Speaker 6: I can't believe I used to do that as often as I know.

00:50:19
Speaker 1: It doesn't even sound fun.

00:50:21
Speaker 3: Now I hate it.

00:50:22
Speaker 6: I used to love it. I was like I remember being in my twenties and being like we would go out all the time, and I just remember being like, Wow, it's gonna suck when I like turn thirty and I still really want to do this, but I can't because it's like kind of weird because people kind of judge me if I go out this way. Then it's like almost like as soon as I turned thirty, I was like, oh, yeah, I don't want to do that. Yeah, And now when I'm in those environments, I'm like, why do we do this?

00:50:45
Speaker 5: Like why?

00:50:45
Speaker 6: I guess if you're going to dance, it makes sense, yeah, But for anything else, I'm like why we're like here to catch up, like I have you're my friend, I haven't seen you in a month. You have to scream it's like how are you? Yeah?

00:50:57
Speaker 1: Or like a first date then a bar, like I don't know how youep do that.

00:51:00
Speaker 6: It's such an uphill battle, just so loud. Yeah, like let's go to a cafe or something conducive to Yeah, park is great, but yeah, no, I used to Uh. I guess it started back in high school, even like back when I was with my group, say to mine. Back then, at some point I started losing my voice. And I'm not trained as a vocalist at all, you know, I'm a rapper, so I just it's completely self taught and never thought about that. And then I really started to lose my voice a lot, and that started to freak me out because it's just a mortifying feeling to be up on stage. And it's like, you know, it's obviously important to play the drums with good technique where you're going to be healthy and you're not going to like have back pain and shoulder pain and things like that. But it's not like if you drop the ball on your healthy technique, the drums just vanish. Yeah, and you're like, well, now you guys, I don't have an instrument anymore.

00:51:49
Speaker 1: Gone.

00:51:49
Speaker 7: Yeah.

00:51:50
Speaker 6: But with the voice, it's that and and the other thing is I really use my energy to like sell it, you know what I mean.

00:51:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to put it behind it, right, You can't just kind of whisper it.

00:52:03
Speaker 6: No, I wish that I could. Sometimes I'm jealous. I'm like, man, I feel like if I was like Snoop Dogg or something like that, she could just go up there with all the swag in the world and do his songs and it sounds almost exactly like the record and it's amazing, you know. But I Harry Mac doesn't do that. I go out there and I'm like, you're gonna like, first of all, nobody knows the words to any of this, because I'm making it up right now, and I'm gonna make you feel this. Yeah, And if I feel like it's not, if I feel like we're not all there, I'm going to rise to the occasion and save the day, you know. And I use like kind of like muscle to do that is how you know. I use my voice. Yeah, But then you know, sometimes I overdo it and then once it goes away, it's very difficult to get it back, and then I feel very like, you know, it's it's kind of scary to be on stage and be like, well, what do we do now? So then I got really serious about, you know, warming up and learning about it now I do, and how to breathe and also trying to pay myself and like, Okay, you don't have to you don't have to go. You don't have to save the day every time. You know, you can pick your moments. But yeah, that's uh So when we're on tour, you know, it's important that like we'll do the video shoots and stuff in the streets, Like if we have a stretch of days off, maybe you know, we try to build that into the tour route, not.

00:53:20
Speaker 1: Not just doing them every show day. Okay, that's smart.

00:53:23
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And I try not to do like back to back shows even.

00:53:28
Speaker 1: Really yeah for me, because I just it's a lot of energy.

00:53:32
Speaker 6: It's a lot. Yeah, and mentally too, because the whole my show is almost entirely improvised.

00:53:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, mentally it must be totally a drain.

00:53:41
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm just like, wow, that was everything I have, Like I need a day.

00:53:44
Speaker 1: So if you do like an hour and a half two hour show, we do an hour and a half hour and a half show, that's different from doing the videos because it's just constant and there's no break, right, Okay.

00:53:55
Speaker 6: That's a lot, and I'm trying to like work the stage and you know, there's a more more physical element versus just me standing in front of four people on a street far or whatever.

00:54:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lot.

00:54:04
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, it's awesome, and I really enjoy it. And I'm also really proud of the show because yeah, when I was like struggling with my voice and trying to figure out how to do that, I was like, I don't know if.

00:54:14
Speaker 1: I can do an hour yeah, because he hadn't done it.

00:54:17
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I had to like really build up to it, and so now I'm able to do it, and that makes me feel really really proud because I just yeah, I was scary for a minute. I was like, man, maybe I'm going to be the guy who could have been such a great freestyle rapper and performer if only his voice could hold out. Oh yeah yeah, as I reached for my throat coat.

00:54:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what kind of places are you playing?

00:54:43
Speaker 6: We are playing like twelve hundred to seventeen hundred cap rooms.

00:54:49
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Yeah, that's like a good size. That's like the best size.

00:54:55
Speaker 6: I Yeah, So I don't know, because like the ambition in me is like, let's go, let's go big as you can.

00:55:00
Speaker 3: Yea.

00:55:01
Speaker 1: If I'm I just mean for like to keep the intimacy. It's so nice.

00:55:06
Speaker 6: I agree, and and like the other side of me, you know, like the ultra ambitious side is like the bigger, the better, and let's keep growing if we can. And then the other side of me is like, this feels kind of perfect, and especially for what I do, you know, because it's all improvised. One of the biggest challenges was like figuring out how to even scale it up to even that size, or even how do I do this on a stage in front of five hundred people instead of on a corner where everybody can see everything that I'm referencing.

00:55:36
Speaker 1: That's true, Yeah, and so.

00:55:38
Speaker 6: We basically like utilize technology and the screen behind me to so there's like a QR code and people are able to like submit words and topics. Okay, so seeing them on screen for.

00:55:47
Speaker 1: The first time a lot easier for people.

00:55:49
Speaker 6: Yeah, and then we have camera feeds and stuff that can project to the screen. So if I'm like in the crowd rapping about what I can see in front of me, the whole room can see it and stuff like that. But but yeah, so I don't know how big it scales. I have done like some festival performances in front of much bigger crowds, and it was really exciting and fun and it works. So I think it works. But I agree with you. I do love the like the fifteen hundred.

00:56:16
Speaker 1: It's kind of sounds nice for what you're doing.

00:56:18
Speaker 6: It's really nice. It's really nice, and I feel like I can feel everybody. And sometimes when it gets with you, yes.

00:56:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sometimes when it's bigger, the people in back might be with you part of it, but they're kind of in and out and they're having fun and they're into it, but it's not in the same way as like having everybody really engaged.

00:56:35
Speaker 6: Yeah, it just becomes kind of like crowd. It's like there's me on stage, and then there's crowd.

00:56:42
Speaker 1: And then then at the back they're like, oh, yeah, he's on stage, and then there's you and me and there's the beer stand and.

00:56:47
Speaker 6: You know exactly exactly yeah, yeah. But the smaller room, it's like, oh, everybody here is contributing, is how it feels.

00:56:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, we play some more music, let's do it. So I want to give you more words.

00:57:02
Speaker 6: I feel like, yeah, let's do that.

00:57:04
Speaker 1: How does this? How should we do it? Oh my god? I don't even know this word, you guys, Oh, what is it? Fiduciary?

00:57:13
Speaker 6: Fiduciary?

00:57:14
Speaker 5: Do you know this one?

00:57:15
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a financial term.

00:57:16
Speaker 1: I know it is that that I knew that, but I don't know what it is.

00:57:19
Speaker 6: I think like a fiduciary responsibility is like if the banks go under, uh, you're still covered up to two hundred thousand dollars.

00:57:28
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm sorry. Did you study finance or am I.

00:57:32
Speaker 7: Just really dumb?

00:57:34
Speaker 6: No, You're not dumb at all. It's a weird word. I think that's what it means.

00:57:37
Speaker 1: Have you had to learn? How do you just go through the dictionary all the time? Like is that a part of your practice? Like do you just know a lot of words that other people don't.

00:57:46
Speaker 6: The thing is, I get a lot of credit for having a big vocabulary, and I don't think it's accurate. I don't think it's true. I just I'm really I feel I say this humbly, like I have a good mastery of the words I do know. You know, it's kind of like some you know, how like some jazz players like from back in the day, like they didn't have a lot of chops, but they had full mastery of their chops and that's why it was so great.

00:58:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, they did their thing.

00:58:11
Speaker 6: Yeah, they did their thing, and they had a voice and and it just and it's beautiful. That's how I feel about my freestyle. People be like, you know, every word in the dictionary sounds like it like if you watch my videos, though, I happen to know fiduciary, so it looks like I know, I like this, I got lucky and that one before. I don't think I've gotten that in a freestyle, which is amazing. It's rare that we get an unfreestyled word.

00:58:31
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, I'm going to put some here. Should I call them out while we're doing it? Or do you want them before?

00:58:38
Speaker 6: I guess this time, call them out while we do it.

00:58:40
Speaker 1: If I put them in you can't see these right? Yes, okay, If I put them in front of me, I can do it. I cannot think.

00:58:46
Speaker 6: Yeah the spot, that's perfect. Plus I was going to suggest you leave them out of the hat so we don't forget what they are.

00:58:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right, And do you want to steal play drums or would you rather do the loop? I'm totally happy how you are, but whatever you want is it is it harder for you while you're playing, or it is.

00:59:06
Speaker 6: Harder to freestyle while I play?

00:59:08
Speaker 1: Okay, but it's like it's so fun.

00:59:11
Speaker 6: Yeah, And the thing is it's in development, Like I'm really working on this right now, you are. So I was excited to do it here, even though I feel like it's like a little early. I mean, I actually brought the drums out on tour last time, and for a segment of the show, like in the middle, I would I did a drum solo and then I would accompany myself on drums while rapping. Okay, but but it's like I feel like it's still in the early stages of development. But I also feel like it's really strange for me to sit at the drums and not play and like play a drum track off my phone. I guess, so on this podcast, I'm accompanying myself.

00:59:48
Speaker 1: Okay, I feel Jones.

00:59:49
Speaker 6: We'll play.

00:59:50
Speaker 1: I'm gonna push you.

00:59:51
Speaker 6: I'm pushing. Yeah, we're pushing ourselves.

00:59:53
Speaker 1: You push me, I push. Yeah, that's how we do this, all right. I've got some fun words here. Oh yeah, okay, all right, you can't see these.

01:00:03
Speaker 6: I can't. I can kind of see those ones upside down. But I'm not going to read them because I'm okay, because you're pro I'm the real deal, you are, okay?

01:00:10
Speaker 1: All right, all right, I've got a lot of words here. We don't have to do them all. I just want to have them out in case.

01:00:14
Speaker 6: All right, Okay, this is gonna be fun.

01:00:18
Speaker 1: All right, it's funny. She made all these flash cars and I made her put them on a sheet of paper because I was like, I'm not going to be picking flash cars out of a hat while I'm playing. And she put them on a sheet of paper.

01:00:33
Speaker 8: But what did I do?

01:00:33
Speaker 1: I just pulled out all the flash cars?

01:00:35
Speaker 7: Yeah?

01:00:39
Speaker 6: At playing?

01:00:40
Speaker 7: Is I gave you?

01:00:42
Speaker 6: That's too much? Right, that's like a circus act, I feel, and somebody will be juggling, like burning exactly right. All right, let's do it. Who should I start it off?

01:00:53
Speaker 3: Yeah?

01:00:54
Speaker 1: Because I don't know what temple you want to do?

01:00:56
Speaker 6: True?

01:00:56
Speaker 1: True, Well you can do anything you want. I can even if you go ask whatever.

01:01:00
Speaker 6: All right, let's see.

01:01:21
Speaker 1: Fiduciary.

01:01:23
Speaker 6: Yeah, there ain't really nothing they can do to Harry. I'm getting paid, y'all. No fiduciary, y'all know I'm stretching with figility. I'm the bank with fiduciary responsibility. Y'all know, I'm making all these rappers run away. If the banks go over, I still get my two hundred kne Yeah, y'all know.

01:01:39
Speaker 3: I'm ready to ride. Get the paper.

01:01:41
Speaker 6: Then we're gonna invest it in stocks.

01:01:43
Speaker 5: Sandbox.

01:01:44
Speaker 6: Yeah, y'all know they came to see the man rock. I'm about to kid at the damn prize. Wants to start rhyming, y'all. I can't stop when I'm with order. I'm like a kid up in the sandbox on the rail. We just out here having fun. I'm just playing the long and getting the job dying.

01:01:58
Speaker 3: I'm just laying the.

01:01:59
Speaker 6: Song, and you know I'm winning every damn bad or. I'm him in the side of my saying past. Oh look, Yeah, we about to take.

01:02:05
Speaker 3: It to the peak to pay attention every time I speak.

01:02:08
Speaker 6: And y'all know they puffing from mac.

01:02:09
Speaker 3: You don't reflesh it on the jail, take the microphone.

01:02:11
Speaker 6: And crush it in the sand.

01:02:13
Speaker 1: Melancholy.

01:02:14
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm about to do it off the melon. Probably I lift you up if you feel melancholi. Y'all know I can't do with the rath Square guarantee to lift your moved. If you feel a sadness, we about to flip your frail upside down when we come through with the live rails. I spend it off the tip of this.

01:02:30
Speaker 3: Y'all know, I'm that dude.

01:02:31
Speaker 6: Rainy days in Portland, y'all that was the melancholy move.

01:02:42
Speaker 1: Take it to Broadway.

01:02:44
Speaker 6: Okay, uh, i'm'a spin it in a Broadway. Theatrical liveries were taking the Broadway. Y'all know I can't do the slave. I run my Broadway. But y'all know the mac don't play. Listen, I'm do winding bigger than that. But they be yelling now Mama Mia Max the strongest free uh not rhyme. Man, you know what got the standards? Yeah, h man, coming with the stands us. Look were about to break it down. Theatrical livers that come through with the crazy saund the better perspected than never projected about the dective begin interjected, y'all know the negget respected. Come on, yeah, and I'm about to make the people go man and yo, nor hit me with the next mov cav o daga Okay, okay, okay, Okay, listen. Uh, I'm the type of rapper they would beg for. Catch me rhyming outside of your blow tegger win not rhyme man. You know I hit the truest target on the West coast. We just call them supermarkets, h. Mac, I'm the number one performer something like a bodega because I get found on every corner. I'm always ready, y'all know we out here to risk. I leave the podecca. You know, I got my soda and chips and my bottle of water for the proper hydration. Except being the corrector, Mac, that's a violation. Look, I let it flow. Y'all know, I'm top choice. Leave my water, rin my teeth from the poteca for my voice.

01:03:54
Speaker 7: Come on, diagnostic, h And y'all know they could.

01:03:59
Speaker 6: Have stopped it. Yeah, we can't through with the hotness. I'm too sick for any diagnostics. Yeah, y'all know they couldn't diagnose this dopeness. Every time you close. It's parochious preaching when I'm speaking. But the Meccan's not a reverend.

01:04:12
Speaker 8: Ever.

01:04:12
Speaker 6: We talk a m and I'm gonna give y'all a medicine I who's as live as me number Jones on that ep knee and I for read she'd been playing the keys every time that the rhyme. Y'all are slaved with these. Oh my heart is sore what I came here to give. But please, people, please let the elephants live. And they already in danger, so don't be hunting every time a rhyme. I get rid of your resumptions. Yeah, I'm nice. Every time that I bussed till my lyprics on a point like an elephant tusk. That raint no rapper. How is live as me?

01:04:42
Speaker 3: But but nothing never know survive in me?

01:04:45
Speaker 1: Come on, give me one more.

01:05:10
Speaker 6: That was fun.

01:05:11
Speaker 1: That was fun.

01:05:12
Speaker 7: That was fun.

01:05:12
Speaker 6: That's hard to do.

01:05:13
Speaker 5: I like that.

01:05:14
Speaker 1: Hard to do it at the same time at the same time. Yeah, yeah, it's a muscle memory, right.

01:05:18
Speaker 6: Yeah. I'm really glad that we're doing this because this is such a cool opportunity for me to take this like out of my out of my practice room. Now that's cool, and to be in this environment. This is such a good environment for it, and I'm loving it.

01:05:31
Speaker 8: It. Yeah.

01:05:32
Speaker 1: Do you get out of breath faster when you're playing at the same time?

01:05:34
Speaker 6: You know, it's weird. I kind of get out of breath faster because there's the physicality of playing. I'm not playing that loud right now obviously, so it's not that crazy. And also my drum parts are simple when I'm rapping, because they have to be. Yeah, but uh, but I get my voice gets weird, I get like more spit in my.

01:05:55
Speaker 1: You don't you don't have the same sort of flow.

01:06:00
Speaker 6: Something like, I don't even know what it is. Yeah, but I've just noticed that I'll start my I'm like, whoa, I need to like swallow or like breathe or like do something.

01:06:08
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening, because well, some people hold their breath when they play drums, yes, you know, and I used to do that at times, So maybe that's what it is. You're like, you can't because you're doing the thing, but you're also that's like your muscle.

01:06:21
Speaker 6: I think so, And actually, I think in a way that's one of the good things about rapping while I play is that it forces me to breathe while I play, And because I did used to, it was hard to I remember for a while I was like practicing like breathing and rhythm, you know, while I play. Oh, yeah, trying to coordinate.

01:06:36
Speaker 1: So that you wouldn't be like holding your breath. Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting.

01:06:40
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I'm so focused. I think that's why I hold the breath, because I'm really focused on what I'm doing.

01:06:46
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, some of my favorite musicians are are drummers who sing. Yes, you know, because and there's such a different thing even when I'm playing piano. If I were to just sing and not play, yeah, I sing different.

01:06:58
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, they they're they're meshed.

01:07:01
Speaker 1: They're married in a way that I think is it's actually my special thing. You know, I can I can do it. I can play and I can sing, and I can do them separately, but when I put them together, that's where they kind of come alive.

01:07:14
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And you can tell just watching you know, watching you and listening to your records and it's just yeah, that's that's the magic.

01:07:20
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't mean to make you complimentary.

01:07:22
Speaker 6: But I do not feelabligated.

01:07:25
Speaker 1: But I do mean, I do mean like it's probably going to open a new channel for you, where like it becomes one in a way, like it already sounds like one to me, but like just since you haven't done it that much. I mean it'll you know, maybe that's like a whole other I think.

01:07:42
Speaker 6: So, and I really want that. That's what I was saying to my manager Mikey, who's here. I was like, dude, I want to just go on and and play drums for every thing we do on the podcast. Was because that's what it makes so much sense. Know, I'm here with you. You're such an amazing musician. You're going to be playing and singing and accompanying yourself, and it's like it would just be so nice to be able to and then there's not as much planning that's needed either. It's like I can just kind of come in and get comfy at the drums and play and so, yeah, this has been a goal of mine. So this is, you know what, a step in the right direction. Check.

01:08:21
Speaker 1: There we go. Yeah we did, y'all. Well this was so fun, so fun. Thank you for doing this.

01:08:27
Speaker 6: My absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. It's it's been an honor.

01:08:31
Speaker 1: I could do it all day, but I don't want to be greedy me too.

01:08:34
Speaker 6: Yeah. Well we'll do it for my album, So we'll.

01:08:36
Speaker 1: Be in touch anytime anytime. I love to play it's like my favorite thing. Yes, you too, we don't have to rehearse even better you're speaking.

01:08:47
Speaker 6: Come on, I'm so down.

01:08:49
Speaker 1: That's why I book so many gigs because I just want to go do it.

01:08:51
Speaker 6: You know, Yes, I love it.

01:08:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it.

01:08:54
Speaker 6: Well, thank you, thank you, Nora.

01:08:56
Speaker 3: Yay.

01:08:57
Speaker 6: Yeah.

01:08:59
Speaker 1: Oh that was so fun. That was amazing. He's incredible. Yeah. What a good dude too, just like sweetheart.

01:09:10
Speaker 6: Yeah, and a good sport.

01:09:11
Speaker 4: Because I feel like we were really trying to stump him.

01:09:15
Speaker 6: You guys were, yeah, but I didn't like that. I actually he liked it.

01:09:18
Speaker 3: He did.

01:09:19
Speaker 6: I was.

01:09:19
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't want to stump him.

01:09:22
Speaker 5: This is mean.

01:09:23
Speaker 1: You're like, how many work to choose wine wine for the rhyme wine. We're like fiduciary. That's a good I said, no, that's mean, I'm not giving him that word.

01:09:35
Speaker 6: He loved it.

01:09:36
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, stump me. I try to stump me. He's so funny. Can't be stumped. That was a joy. If you want to know what we played in this episode, well, we just played a bunch of random stuff improvised. The first song was Freestyle Number one. Second song I did use part of one of my songs called Sinking Soon, but Sinking Soon was from an album I May called Not Too Late and Too and seven, but we just took a snippet of it. Basically, it's all freestyle the rest of it, but other than that second song, it's all's freestyle. Special. Thanks to Harry Mack for joining us today, and we'll be back next week with Madison Cunningham. Norah Jones Is Playing Along is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Visit Norah Jones channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. I'm your host, Norah Jones. This episode was recorded by Kyle Pass, mixed by Jamie Landry. Additional recording by Matt Marinelli. Audio post production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Our work by Eliza Fry. Photography by Shervin Linez. Produced by Nora Jones and Sarah Oda. Executive producers Aaron Wang Kaufman and Jordan Rundag. Marketing Lead Alison Kanter Graber