Maddie Kowalski & Going Viral Against Your Will | Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel #358

[SPEAKER_00]: Today's guest is Maddie Koalski.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you were anywhere near social media late last year, you probably saw her name.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maddie is a university of Florida student whose private video was shared online without her consent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Within hours, it spread across platforms was reposted, dissected, judged, and turned into viral entertainment by millions of strangers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is her story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maddie, thank you so much for joining me today.
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've had a long day.
[SPEAKER_00]: You had to drive from school this morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like five hours with your friend.
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you feeling?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the first time you're like having a long conversation with somebody that's not a lawyer or in your family.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, I'm nervous, but okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, don't be nervous.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a long car ride to think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, in the last couple months, a lot has been said about you.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people don't even know this story.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I want to just have a conversation to let people know who you are until this event that you become sort of infamous for.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, tell me about where you grew up, your childhood, your parents, you know, that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I'm from Jacksonville, Florida.
[SPEAKER_01]: I moved around a lot, like as a kid, but that's where I ended up for middle school high school all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a little brother, and then it's just my parents and my little brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: My grandparents live close by, so we see them a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Grab by the beach, pretty normal childhood.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how was high school for you?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was kind of a loser in high school, but apart from that, I mean, I was happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a great time at high school.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and you decided to go to Gainesville and what do you study?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's kind of complicated.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a theater major.
[SPEAKER_01]: I originally,
[SPEAKER_01]: wanted to be an actress but after this situation I just don't know if that's like possible so I'm doing like media management now as my major so that I can do that online but did you actually have to switch majors oh wow okay and are you so okay so you're soft more now
[SPEAKER_00]: Talks to me about school the first year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you love it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why games though?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, games will because, I mean, we Florida's the best school in Florida, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's free tuition, whoever has like a certain grade point out right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's from Florida.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was able to go for like free tuition.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I knew I wanted to stay in state and then Gainesville's like really close.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like an hour and 45 minutes from where I'm from.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can kind of like go home when I want to and like it's a lot easier for my family to come visit.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was a big part of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also just doing tours.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like the campus.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you know anyone going there?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there was like 60 kids from my school, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh wow, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're first year, did you ever make it where you and a dorm had that work?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was in a dorm, I had two roommates.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like living with other people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how was your first year?
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you rush a story?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's already?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was in a sorority.
[SPEAKER_01]: How was rush?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the thing is, I feel like compared to my friends that other SEC schools, I feel like Florida is like the least, like SEC school of all of the SEC schools in a garage.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't like as crazy as people make it out to be, but it was definitely like stressful.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like I remember even when I went to college, you know, rushing a,
[SPEAKER_00]: fraternity or sorority was like a whole thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, I was really close with a lot of the guy, so I was there for a lot of their rush.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were put through some of the most terrible things.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had to be drunk the whole time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, they had to physically get hurt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it was pretty terrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it like to rush sorority?
[SPEAKER_01]: Not like that at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like sororities don't really like haze like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like we're really just the fraternities.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's been like two incidents of like hazing and sororities in the past.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like,
[SPEAKER_01]: ten years at Florida, and they got in trouble for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: God, and what have you found with the girls?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they like older sisters or like, how does that work?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just, it's hard to like generalize like a group of women like based on like, you know, whatever, but I'd say like it's very like for me, my sorority to me was very 50-50 like half the girls were like amazing and I love them.
[SPEAKER_01]: than the other half, like, maybe not so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you guys didn't all have to be nice to each other just because you know, all we're in the story now.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK. No.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then did you have a goal to live in the house?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, was there a house?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did they have something like that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I would not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would live in the house.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like, well, I knew after, like, living in a room with two other people, like, I'm a messy person.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know I, like, I knew I needed.
[SPEAKER_01]: my own room and in the sorority house you have to share room.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I know I didn't want to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, there's a lot of rules in the sorority house.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't even have your guy friends over in stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, so in high school or your freshman year did you have a boyfriend?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, I had a couple of my friends in high school and then I mean none of those really like mattered and then I did have a boyfriend last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, and how did that go?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I mean, we dated for like four months.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, are we together for like four months?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think I loved him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, looking back who knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, um, did you have a rough breakup?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or yeah, for me, it was rough.
[SPEAKER_01]: He broke up with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was definitely a little bit shaken up after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was like the first time I really was serious about someone.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it was like right before my birthday, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, he sent me like my birthday gift.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and like, like, there's no.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I was born mad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that how he broke up with you?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, he broke up with me on FaceTime, but oh, okay, still cheese and you never saw him again Well, no, I see him at school and like Herable because I want to go up to heaven be like hey, right, but I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why did he break up with you?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was just like the stress of like he like had some
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I guess I think he just was really stressed with, um, you know, stuff with his like, uh, it is personal life and like with school and everything and I think he just didn't have like, the time to like give me what I needed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know if, yeah, you know, it was another girl or situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's easier to get through, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so, are you over right now?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, listen, adults will go through breakups and it takes years to get over it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'd like say so, I feel like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know when the situation happened like I really wanted to like, I wanted him to like reach out, but of course, like he wasn't going to like why would he reach out to so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, but I'd say I'm mostly over it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So last year did you make some really good friends that you took into your sophomore year?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you started school feeling good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to set the stage.
[SPEAKER_01]: I started school, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I started like this semester, everything happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, so last semester, the fall semester.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I had my friends from last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was in Gainesville over the summer or two.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I made a lot of friends doing summer school.
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I felt good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, new apartment with my friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: Same girls as last year?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: now like that we're in my sorority.
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And are you rumming now with the same girls you were rumming with last semester?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like the semester?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right, let's talk about so you're a sophomore and you started your sophomore year, everything was fine and everything is going well and you're sophomore in college like you're having fun, you're going to school during the week and having fun on the weekends or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where were you when you woke up and learned that people were talking about you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I was like, what I really, like, when I saw some like things on your cat, but I didn't really know what was going on, but what I like really, really understand what your cat gets.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so yeah, I guess people probably don't know what that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like this forum for college kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need like a college email to sign up so like it's all kids from the college.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just whatever college.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's like university of 40 I got for the state.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so and you can comment like whatever post anything you want anonymously.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so like people were saying like I'm Kaylee like you can't say names.
[SPEAKER_01]: They say like first and last initials.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like MK leaks like these videos are crazy and I'm like what what's going on?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and is that something that you followed a lot?
[SPEAKER_00]: Does Yikyak thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like everyone reads it like it's Facebook or something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it's like, if something like happens on Yikyak, like people will talk about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And usually the scandals are what kind of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, like, there was like a frat kid that I guess had like only fans like things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's always saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just gossip.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just gossip.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's stuff like that, so it's like, um, yeah, like it's not like anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, sometimes also like, I feel like this stuff on there is fake.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't know if it, like, for sure, was something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you wake up and, and did somebody alert you to it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or just hopping like at night.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was like a Sunday night.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so yeah, my friends are calling
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I didn't think of your name, they're saying your name or they're like a girl.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, or they're saying like that red head got a guy so we're already like it's very obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I, um, I like went back to my, I was like made it to my apartment.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was with friends when I went to my apartment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that's what I was really freaking out because it's like everybody's talking about this on your gag.
[SPEAKER_00]: And can you tell our listeners like, what was the comment?
[SPEAKER_00]: What were they saying?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, I feel like I've like blocked out that night so much for my memory that like, I couldn't even, but it's like, I mean, like it was like memes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember it was people just like saying, I was disgusting, like, being like, you know, that's so gross or like, whatever, like anything you can think of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there was so many.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they were talking about you, but were they talking about,
[SPEAKER_00]: what they saw, where they're saying this girl in my sorority, there's a video going around.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it wasn't even news.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you didn't know what the heck was going on, you would have no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea what's going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, as anyone else seen the MK videos, they're so gross and crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: What videos are we talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, okay, so no one, so you didn't know what they were talking about and it was kind of vague, but you knew it was about you and people were talking badly about you, yeah, got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so at what point did you kind of get clued into what they were talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: When it got posted on Twitter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so explain to people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, explain to people who are listening that don't know this story Can a little bit about how unfolded so you said you learned about it on Sunday and then what a couple days later Something came out.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was like that night on Sunday like someone posted a kickback It was like the videos are on Twitter.
[SPEAKER_01]: God said where can I see the videos these videos are on like X so I want an X I search my name
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I had your name on there, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, every single thing that was posted about me on X had my name.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why that, like, late about night, I became like the number one trending topic in the country on X because everyone was posting with my name.
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, so I like, and on X just to clarify, was it commentary or was literally just the videos and they were being replayed by people?
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, the first thing was like the video and it was like, but if they would say captions too, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: This was by full captions like sure crazy things and people just kept reposting the video Yeah, I'm putting their own captioning it and then like not like a repost yeah per se, but like they would like download it themselves and then upload it So everyone was uploading this video like really really quickly and then people were making memes about it and then like I think it was like the next day that was when people started doing commentary on like TikTok and Instagram reels and like making AI edits and things like it was just yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know it's upsetting to talk about, but for people that are listening, can you sort of describe what was on the video a little bit for people because people have not seen it, was it was you?
[SPEAKER_01]: With Matt and there was like sexual acts depicted and I was naked.
[SPEAKER_01]: in the videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you saw these videos for the first time, what did you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I feel like when something crazy happens and dramatic like that, like when you see something like that, like I feel like I almost like blocked out, like I feel like I almost like genuinely couldn't even tell you exactly what I thought, but I know that it was like just like a wave of
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think you were freaking out because that it was you online or do you think you were freaking out because you were like, I don't remember when was that like, I don't remember it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I knew generally I think like when it was but I didn't remember like one of the acts in the video and I just was like, oh my gosh, I get felt like I was like watching it for the first time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but also, yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm watching the views go up and up and up and like, I think the original video got like 5 million views or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, I'm watching that and I'm watching my name start trending and I'm just watching all the comments flood in and people re uploading it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so quickly, it's like, what do you even do?
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't stop this.
[SPEAKER_01]: If this is something I cannot just, you know, taking down and it's done, it's everywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what did you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, did you call someone at your school?
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you call your parents?
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't want to call my parents because I was too scared.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because at this point, people were like, on Twitter, we're saying that they call my parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, why?
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard you say that, and I didn't understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would they call your parents?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I...
[SPEAKER_00]: To be mean, I mean, I know you said somebody had taped a conversation with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What were they talking about with your parents?
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't bring myself to listen to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea what they said.
[SPEAKER_01]: Other people have said it was something about like saying that they did things to me and gave me STDs or something like crazy things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't like I physically.
[SPEAKER_00]: So was someone as a joke calling your parents?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then posting it.
[SPEAKER_00]: or why for what reason I couldn't tell you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would never do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's interesting about this is like, as this is unfolding in the days after, your name becomes a top trending conversation piece or video.
[SPEAKER_00]: on X and people then instead of taking your side or saying, you know, the only reason I got taken down is what I'm trying to get to is not because somebody felt bad about it, but it was because X ends up blocking it because it was illegal correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the thing is what sucks about this is not like we can just report every single thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, right, eventually when I did have the courage, when I did have the courage to talk to my parents, they were able to like hire the right people to work and get it taken down and get in contact with that and do all those things that we just didn't have, we don't have time but they're all day and do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, like, without that resource, I don't know what it would have done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, it's an interesting thing because a lot of people will look at it and not really understand what's illegal or what is just wrong, right, out of the situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I feel like there's a bunch of buckets here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone wants to blame you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, I mean, I've looked at the comments and the fact that people
[SPEAKER_00]: don't understand consent, that they don't understand right and wrong, that they don't understand, you know, it's shocking to me that people will show their full name on their Instagram and say things that they could, should clearly be
[SPEAKER_00]: fired from a company for writing, or their wife should be upset, or as a female writing too, like you should admit to a lot of people were fired for a lot less.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just for even commenting in the way or saying such nasty things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's shocking to me that anyone would take the side of anything but compassion for all parties around for like everything going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it's important to talk about that for a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you could tell were not necessarily consensual because you were drunk in the videos, correct?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was under the influence, so I, yeah, I mean, legally, like, and I'm not even going to say my own opinion on whether or not, legally, I was not able to consent.
[SPEAKER_01]: to the acts or to, you know, being recorded.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I definitely did not consent to posting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I feel that people who posted that knew my first and last name, I knew I wouldn't want that posted.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They posted that to, like, launch this attack.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's illegal, which is illegal, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what people don't understand because people are like, saying, I should be locked up in all of these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, well, I didn't commit a crime.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: These people, well, why would you be locked up?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that doesn't even make sense to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, people that are staying matters stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like, I mean, these people committed a crime.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know I'm gonna, like, people at school are like, you need to stay away from her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, she's trying to get people in trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, anything you say, like, she's gonna send you to jail.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not how that works.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't send every person that says something rude to jail.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or just like, why don't I send my friends to jail?
[SPEAKER_01]: But people like, don't want to be associated because they all think they're going to jail or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or that I'm like pressing charges on everyone or suing everyone and it's like, no, like these people committed a crime like in the state of Florida, the state of Florida is going to like the police are going to do what they're going to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not has nothing to do with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: At the end of the day, the investigation has nothing to do with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I just happen to be like the victim, but I also think.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm imagining that you don't want it to keep going anyways, because the more it's out there, the more you feel like people are looking at you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, you're still a child, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, you're, how will do you now?
[SPEAKER_00]: 19.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the fact that anyone doesn't see that, you know, you're, I would assume and correct me if I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just wanted to go away.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, but you also want some sort of just as adverse.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what does just this look like to you, do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't even know.
[SPEAKER_01]: At this point, like, I feel like my life is like, so different and just so screwed up that, like, I just, like, I don't even, like, someday that I just, like, don't even care.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's like, well, I don't want you to think it's screwed up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you why, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are plenty of people that do,
[SPEAKER_00]: make mistakes or that are involved in something that shines a light on a mistake or something that they were involved with that they don't want, you know, you had, you clearly had a night that you went through and that should have probably remained with the people, you know, involved as opposed to the whole world to see, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that it's important to understand like people are trying to shame you for that and it's not okay and that's not gonna affect your life forever it will because it lives on the internet hopefully you guys can get a lot of it removed but you know talk about your fear of how that is gonna follow you
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean I just every single day it's posted somewhere else I can't we can't I can't you know pay for people to be taking this down for us to my life like that's just not something that's sustainable like it's gonna it's gonna be up forever like anyone in my most people in my generation of scene video
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone else that hasn't seen the video can go see it because somebody's going to say something and then you know what I mean like I'll never be able to meet people or interact with people normally like every person I meet is going to like have a certain connotation like or like certain assumptions about me because right or make a judgment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So can we talk about some of the misconceptions though because I think a lot of people don't understand the facts and I heard you saying that a couple times in the posts that you made recently that people don't have the facts correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and there's a lot of things I just can't say because I really am trying to protect like what the police are doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very grateful for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of want to let them do their thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you clarify any of the things like I saw you post some stuff and saying this did not happen or this is not true?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, there was a rumor that it was an exchange for drugs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't doing drugs nor was I doing things and exchange for drugs.
[SPEAKER_01]: And people just can't seem to get out of their head.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, for drugs no matter how many times I say it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, do you want me to pee in a cup?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I, like, do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, um...
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was actually frustrating.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but everybody says that I was like a prostitute and that's why people say I should go to jail I think I'm some sort of prostitute because apparently I had sex for drugs, but I did not Well, and I'm assuming in the video though, it is evident that you are not in your complete mind or not I mean, I would say so, but maybe somebody viewing like I don't know
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, from what I've watched a couple people, well, a lot of people say is I feel sorry for Maddie, but she...
[SPEAKER_00]: asked for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel when people are saying that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I didn't ask to be posted.
[SPEAKER_01]: The people who posted also knew exactly what they were doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it wasn't like just, oh, like, oh, this is consensual.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna post, you know my first or last name.
[SPEAKER_01]: You probably go to school with me, like, you know, you knew what this was gonna do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I did not ask, I didn't ask for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is not like every little girl's dream is to like be not like on a podcast talking about the fact that my body got leaked.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's like, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that, you know, there's two things that people are not really understanding.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're two different, but obviously happened around the same time and around the, because of the same act, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was what happened in that night or the over the course of two nights, you said, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or two times, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the fact that it was leaked.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think a lot of the question surrounds around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the active it and I think that that's where people are getting confused right because I've noticed in a lot of people's comments they would say things like Well, she deserved it.
[SPEAKER_00]: She asked for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: She went around and was flirtatious But Do you think as a child, I'm going to ask you and then I'll give you the adult version?
[SPEAKER_00]: that because you're flirtatious or you dress a certain way or you're drinking because you're in college that you do you really believe that you deserve any of the things not about it being posted but about what happened on those nights that it happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, um, and a lot of people say that I asked for it because they think I went back.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the two nights was different groups of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the ones from like the main video, I didn't even know them, like literally picked me up off the side of the road.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like it's like, I just like it, I didn't, yeah, I didn't, I don't think I don't think anyone deserves that at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as an adult, I will tell you that I think I was saying this to you and your father on the phone, but my phone was really bad yesterday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like...
[SPEAKER_00]: You are a female, you know, it's the same thing with, you know, no is no, and non-concent is not the same thing because if you are in a state of mind where you cannot say anything, it makes them more difficult to like clarify, but, you know, the bottom line is is you can be who you are and then.
[SPEAKER_00]: something could happen, you know, all of a sudden you could be on a date.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can be sexual with somebody, but when no is no, it means no.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you get over the limit where you cannot, you don't remember what happened the next day, nothing that happens in that time is consensual.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what I, as an outsider, have been witnessing still to this day, like you just posted something yesterday or
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it was odd for me to see people saying such comments that should get them in trouble and doesn't, and makes it very clear that people do not understand what consent is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And on both things for what happened that evening and what happened and the posting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just feel like I don't understand too if somebody has that opinion like why they need to go and comment that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like what they're first and last name like, why, why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let them do that dig their own grunk.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but you're that passionate that you want to like really that like passionate about my story like confident you know everything like like I said Yeah, a lot of details that I I can't Speak about but like People only know what they saw from like a five second clip like you don't know right anything right so I guess the last part of wrapping up that whole conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just like do you have to run into these boys at school?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like is there a fear that you will?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I also don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I have a lot of people coming up to me, and majority of them are a majority have been pretty nice for the most part.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when guys come up to me, and I support you whatever, or like asked for a picture, or something like it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know who posted the videos because it was all on fake accounts on Twitter We don't know who like that secret anime is no not until you know something would happen with the police investigation So it's like it could be anyone around me and I could be literally like taking a picture with them because they said they're like a supporter God, I mean yeah, it's the person who did this to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like it's very very weird But what about the boys that are in the video like is there
[SPEAKER_00]: fear that you're going to run into them, like, have you spoken to any of them?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you talk about that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't know if I can talk about that, but the ones, I know not all of them are your students.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how has this made you feel, um, you know, ever since it's been what three months?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you had to move home, tell our listeners what happened to you after?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how long did you stay at school?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you go in hiding?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you go to your classes?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I withdrew from all my classes like literally with Drew or you just don't go in for like a week.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, they like I withdrew from all my classes last last semester, she was annoying because I but anyways, so I withdrew from my classes last semester and then what made you feel you couldn't stay in school?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I didn't want to go to like I didn't want to do anything got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the whole school knew the whole school would see my naked body like I'm not I'm not leaving my
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and then I didn't know what to do because I didn't want to go home because I was embarrassed because people were harassing my family and I was... Yeah, I saw you mention that, what were they doing to your family?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the spam calls, the print calls, you know, of course like I assumed like our neighbors you know at this point, you know, all the high school kids know like, I've assumed like all my parents friends know and all this like I'm just so embarrassed of my dad's work, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: His LinkedIn got leaked, um, people were like posting his LinkedIn everywhere so I'm guessing like his job knew.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're telling me that people have the audacity to call your family and just continue this on to harass you and to harass them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to harass them who have nothing to do with anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were like, you know, posting pictures of my brother or things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just, I could not face my family.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the meantime, what were they saying to you on the phone now?
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't talking on the phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you wouldn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they shut up at my apartment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because my roommates told them, like, like, my body's not doing good.
[SPEAKER_01]: How long after?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it started on a Sunday.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was like two days after.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, they kept like asking to calm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was texting like, no, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, dot answered the phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, my roommate's like realized like I was like suicidal and like very anxious, very depressed, like not doing okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, they can't handle that, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're a bunch of 19-year-olds.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they got my parents to come.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how are your roommates, how are your roommates dealing with that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's all, I mean, no one knows how to deal with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how do you even like respond to that?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to look at their classes?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but there was usually like somebody, I have four roommates.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was usually somebody like, home with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were really good about like, kind of telling everyone to like f-off, because a lot of people were like reaching out to them, but it wasn't like, it was like, it wasn't from a place really of concern.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seemed like it was a place of like noziness.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just wanted to go off them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's very obvious to tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they were kind of good at like defending me and stuff and telling people to stop that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they were really good about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so your parents come and do they have your brother there, too?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it was just, I think it was just my dad that came.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he just wanted to talk or he's like, you're coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like fight or fight literally like my window is open.
[SPEAKER_01]: I start running for my window.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like my roommates are grabbing my arms like total mess, like freaking out crying, screaming, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: like horrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I could not look that man in the eyes, so that was, yeah, that was really bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how did that relationship change?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I was on a phone call with you guys yesterday and he seems like your biggest supporter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know, but you just don't, like, know how someone's like reaction is going to be just something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my dad has now seen those videos.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like people have sent in those videos and we're calling him like saying these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, you know, like you just don't know, how someone's gonna react to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And people were like making posts saying my parents like just own me and I was like maybe they're gonna, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, because I think some parents would genuinely, so I just didn't know, right, like what was gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just felt really embarrassed and I felt
[SPEAKER_01]: really upset for her him and for my mom and for my brother who had to get like pulled out of school because people were coming up to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So and you didn't want to disappoint them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you felt like you already had.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So does he take you home at that point?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I wouldn't go home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And did you end up talking to him?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or not really know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of kicked him out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then eventually I was able.
[SPEAKER_01]: to talk to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I called him.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, like he was just hanging out and he got a hotel.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like staying around and then finally I was like okay, and then I drove home.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you go home and you only recently came back right after the holiday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how long did you end up being home?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was home for like all of November, December, uh, and then like a lot of this month, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: I came back like a week after school started.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and um, now you sign it for online classes or for regular class online.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Online, but you're living with your roommates.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The same form.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how has been going back to campus been for you?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like ridiculous, like it's like I'm walking on the street and it's people rolling their windows down and like screaming my name, honking their horns.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like going into the store, and it's like 50,000 people coming up to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't mind when people come up in their nice, but also it's just like it can be very like overwhelming like I don't I don't mind that though But the problem is when it's like people like have come up and just like shoved like cameras my face like shoving their phones in my face like like just taking pictures with me without asking like I feel like I I'm fine with people who come up and are like
[SPEAKER_01]: like I appreciated your story or whatever like, but it's like, when people are coming up and just like zooming in like, yeah, pictures of me and I'm like, what's going on like I can't even like go to wall wall and get a snack without someone taking my picture and putting it on like Twitter like I'm just saying what I saw her.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like Maddie Koalski spotted like they they're always like everything I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got my picture taken and they post it like wow like.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so as someone who I don't know how much you know about me, but as from somebody who's been through something similar, where people will use you almost like a verb, like you did a Maddie Kowalski or spotted Maddie Kowalski.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, I think number one people are going to be jealous jealous because you have more fame.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter how you got it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a household name for some people and you have to start understanding that if you internalize shame about that, you're never going to get anywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's important for you to know, okay, what happened is in the past, you are not who that person is and it's really important for you to be able to like use that for your decisions going forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not your parents, but I am a parent of a child and, you know, as an adult figure to you and as a female, I would say, going forward, I hope this is taught you to be careful who your friends are.
[SPEAKER_00]: To be careful when you go out, you know, be careful what, you know, what drink you put down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be careful how much you drink.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe even not drink for a while because you don't know who to trust.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I would assume that this is going to affect your
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know how this will make you have a boyfriend after, but I hope you pick someone who cherishes who you are, protects your sexuality, like you don't have to be some hot, college sorority check, and you know, make the decisions of, like, partying to be loved and cared for, you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, I hope that those are the lessons that you take from it, because that is so helpful, because you're going to school with girls,
[SPEAKER_00]: behave that way and get themselves into trouble or there are things going on that you've never heard of because it hasn't made it on Twitter, but those things are happening in people's ecosystems all over college and all over, you know, people's lives, you know, there's something that embarrasses them that somebody knows about and they're threatening them with it or they're making fun of them with it and the reason why other people do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: because they're not feeling good about themselves and they do it to have something to make fun of.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I hope you know all of that and you take that into your future of like, you know, you said when you sat down like I'm never going to be an actress.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, of course you can be an actress.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Julia Roberts and Angelina Jolie have plenty of terrible things in their background that no one talks about now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but if you, you know, really wanted to figure it out, you could Google them from a long time ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone deserves a second chance and you're 19 like who you are now is going to be completely different from five years to 20 years to 40 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I hope that people are saying to you like,
[SPEAKER_00]: this isn't the end of your life and like this is not how you're going to be remembered.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only way though that you can make it into some what of a positive is to like learn from it and kind of you know hopefully help other people that are in the situation if they want to to talk to you about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I feel like because my situation was so public like anyone who even like
[SPEAKER_01]: as any kind of like revenge foreigner whatever happened to them is like probably gonna go to my page.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's why I want like my post to like be helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, well, because it's the only thing you can hope out of it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I mean, it's only been three months.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're still, by the way, you're still in the thick of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You will be fine one day and then like you'll be in the shower, um, three months or now, and I guarantee you, you'll start crying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that happened to me and I know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: when people move on from it, you're going to have other feelings too, like, you know, that you don't feel like you're known for anything but that, so maybe that'll make you want to act out and and be somebody similar to that because, you know, you feel like you got a lot of attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just have to be careful in the phases of like this because somebody skyrocketing to no variety like you, you
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I'm sure it feels good when you get that positive attention, but that negative attention almost will override it too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 100% like I like I appreciate the positivity, but like I really don't even see the positivity because there's so much negativity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and like that's what like resonates with me like I the positive comments like in DMs like they help like they're great, but like I feel like that I'll read one of those.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, oh, and then I'll read a negative one, and then I'll like
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that that's all you can hear, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so many people, this is important too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So many people will want to be around you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to be very close to the people that you're close with.
[SPEAKER_00]: And be very slow to open up your life to anyone else right now, for like the rest of this semester.
[SPEAKER_00]: I promise you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like so many people want to be part of the story.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are going to get close to you to act like your friend, just so that they get you to tell.
[SPEAKER_00]: things that you maybe haven't told people, just so they can turn around and use it against you later.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's not their intention at the beginning, but the second you get into a fight, that'll be, you know, someone else will hear a story.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know and and some people will be asked about it and be like oh yeah I know her when you maybe have walked by the months yeah so you just have to be so careful on who you trust on who you tell things to and unfortunately that means you're going to have to internalize a lot of stuff because my suggestion to you for maybe many years to come is to be very careful who you allow into your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which sucks, because I mean, I'm just a very trusting person, like, I want to just everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I feel like everyone's a good person and I want to be friends with everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: But as I've learned in the situation, like, I mean, even just with a lot of people, like, abandoning me when this happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, they were never friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then people I've gotten close to,
[SPEAKER_01]: Since the situation, I have seemed to really genuine and then I've started to realize like, they just want to take pictures of me and post with me and like do this and not and I'm like, but I don't want you to post me and it's like, well, why can't I and it's like, because
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going through a lot right now and I don't want that picture posted.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, it's like, do you care more about like saying your friends with me or do you care more about like being friends with me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I know it's my heart for you because you're probably bubbly and fun and you're in college.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, why should we make friends like that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so social.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think it's just really important to protect.
[SPEAKER_00]: yourself, especially through the rest of this semester.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like starting next year it'll be easier for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: There'll be a new scandal at school that somebody will talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody also be on only fans and they'll harass them for a while, you know, which none of these things are good, but like at the same time the focus won't be only on you.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that people are still talking about it is what makes it difficult and like you just came back to schools, so that's why I think a lot of people are talking about it again, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I mean, even for like events and stuff, like he used to love to go to like Greek events and like tailgates and stuff, and like I can't go to any of that, because there are all the fraternities are like, you know, she's doing people, we don't want to be involved with like lawsuits and things and you just stay away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and it's kind of just physical, like this is like negative like bubble around me.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, only the wrong people want to get close to me, but like, again, you and people like, don't want to touch the situation and don't want to be associated.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, it's very hard to know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not so interesting about college culture, though, that they don't want you around because they don't want to be sued.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if they weren't the type of people that did anything wrong, like, why would I sue them or just by hanging out?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, also, like, I'm not like dismiss, like, suing people over here, like, I haven't, like far- Yeah, I see what's I, I...
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there is a criminal investigation, but that, again, has nothing to do with me, these people committed crimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so let's talk about the for once again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's important for people to to know when they listen to this, that once something is posted like that, it becomes bigger than just you, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it goes into this universe and it's archived and police can see a crime was committed and they will follow up on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So even if you,
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like, I don't want to press charges.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to get involved.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not your order.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not your decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't just say I don't want to press charges.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the state of Florida versus whoever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not my decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the police knew about it before like they ever talk to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They knew all about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: They already had all of the accounts that posted it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they had all of this information.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like people were calling in and reporting it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like on my behalf.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before I even like knew if that's something I wanted.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: So all you can commit, commit, like, a soul, and then the person is like, I don't want to price it maybe, actually maybe that's how that works.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like, in this case, like, it's not, yeah, it's like up to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, I'm curious about how you're working on yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would imagine that it's hard for you to want to, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: be in public and drink or act like you're having fun because it almost makes it seem like the narrative that people are giving of like, oh, Maddie, she deserved it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she asked for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she got drunk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she's a flirt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, do you worry that you acting in a certain way is going to then come back to haunt you because they're going to use that as an excuse for what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100% no matter what I do I post myself crying it she's crocodile tears like she's doing this for attention But I'm out I'm out happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like why the F is she happy like right she said she was upset like and it's like Okay, maybe I sat in bed all day like anxiety written like upset crying reading comments and then like my friends were like Okay, let's go have fun and then I wanted to go like yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: I think two things can be true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, of course, but it's no matter what I do, but don't forget you're also listening to kids who are kids and you're a kid, but like this is a normal phase of life that you can feel good one minute and you can feel terrible in another minute and both things understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Both things are the truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, then those are not people that should be your friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they can comment, but they're also children.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when something happens to them in their own that situation, they will remember
[SPEAKER_00]: Maddy Kowalski and they will say, oh, I get it now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know what she was going through.
[SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, it's just one of those things that you're going to have to kind of grow through.
[SPEAKER_00]: For someone will stop you 20 years from now, be like, oh my God, I went to college with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember this, and I experienced XYZ that might not be even similar in what happened, but the feelings were the same, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll say, I totally get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so sorry that I didn't, I wasn't more supportive back then.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know how, I don't think you know anyone, including your family, including your lawyers, including whoever that has ever been through something as seriously emotionally damaging, reputation damaging, that big as you and it takes a big person to get through that and it's not over yet because time is the only thing that can heal that and I just want, you know, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: you're going to be okay, and you just have to, you know, stay strong and know that it's you are going to get through it, and you are going to have a great life, and hopefully this is your one time that you learn a hard lesson in trust, in decisions, in choices, in people, and you just act accordingly going forward, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's all you can do.
[SPEAKER_00]: the what do you what's the next chapter for you like what are you looking forward to I have no idea like I genuinely like
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, I mean, I didn't think I was going to survive this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think I was going to come back to school.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just like, day by day.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's the big step right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's like, I mean, with like the whole, like, social media and like me going viral, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's a lot of like cool opportunities.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I have a mental energy to entertain any of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you talk about anything that was offered to you or like the kind of opportunities that have come to you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I mean, just a lot of like influencers and stuff have reached out, you know, a lot of streamers want to do like collabs and things and like, you know, it's like people I watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that would be cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, that's just opening the door for like A more A and B. I just feel like I'm not in like a place like mentally.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, to be able to do any of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like collabs where you go on their page or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like you're doing a TikTok, like I don't even know what.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like TikTok streams, like whatever, like those kind of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: What does that mean where you would talk, where they would interview you, or like where they'd be like calm to like Disney world and we're going to like mic up and like Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So doing fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not real.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be like fun stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not just like sitting there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I like cool stuff with like people actually watch, but I mean, I just can't like deal with any more right hate right now and also like if they catch me on a bad day.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be like crying the whole time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, hopefully you will.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now you said you're studying what?
[SPEAKER_00]: like media management, what does that mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, my classes are like social media, PR, and like, like reality TV.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, fun, like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have a cool class.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm sure opportunities are going to come to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: now and later in life and, you know, you won't be able to run away from, you know, things that are this in the past, but you can use it to your advantage, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And because you're studying that, I'll just put it in your head, you might be someone who goes on a public speaking tour in a couple of years about, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: what happened in college and how you survive this kind of thing, you know, how you survive having someone hijacked your narrative, how you survive, you know, a terrible evening that then was put on display.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like do you feel like you made any mistakes in this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 100% like, I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: Granted, everyone has a different perspective.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like people who maybe went to a big party school college or maybe a little more understanding.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I was drinking and stuff, but, you know, of course, I'm not of age.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a bad choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, should not have been by myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: like wandering around, like talking to strangers, things like that or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not things I should have been doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are all mistakes.
[SPEAKER_01]: But are those mistakes that weren't this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, no, not at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, nobody deserves this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the mistakes, yes, I made mistakes with the normal consequences of those mistakes are not like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, yeah, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, I made mistakes.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think anything I did would
[SPEAKER_01]: backlash that I'm receiving when a crime was committed against me, like, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, over the past three months, like being the subject of so much scrutiny, online, for somebody I didn't consent to be posting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I have a constant, like, state of anxiety.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have stomach aches, and I can't really move sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't, like, move my mouth to form words.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, because I'm so anxious about what people are going to say about me next.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going to come out next?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what are people going to say about me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and so I just sit there and I refresh Twitter over and over and over again.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just jump between the social media sites and I see what people are saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I read the comments and it's like a dick thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then I just get to press.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I just cry or are you out there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there something that sticks out with you as the worst thing that you've read?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think anything about my family hurts the most because, yes, I mean, people tell me they would laugh, I killed myself, you know, like all these things, they're like, we would laugh at a video of you killing yourself, like we would, like we laughed at the video of you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I get death threats all the time, but I feel like I'm like numb to that, that's point.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's whenever I see them bring my family.
[SPEAKER_01]: into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I like it really hurts me and don't I like don't can be wrong at all it all hurts but that's like what I really really get upset.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah what's your relationship with your family now your brother and your parents?
[SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead but it's just I have a lot of like guilt I mean even though I'm not the one like they're always telling me they're like you're not the one who chose to post all this you're not the one who was calling us and doing all these things but it just
[SPEAKER_01]: I just like, it's hard and they've been really supportive, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so will you just expand on that, be like my parents?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my parents, like helped me with the resources to take the videos down off Twitter and they have said they support me with like social media and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and they're always there when I'm like upset and need to call and they check it on me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you ever have a conversation with your brother?
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't really actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Has he said anything to you?
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I see.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's he being supportive of you and hanging out with you on the couch and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just, he like repost my, like videos on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've reposted my Instagram video yesterday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's supportive, but it's just, it's just hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, it's so embarrassing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I hope this was an easy, easier than you thought, conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope that you get the justice you deserve whatever that looks like for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do hope that you have my number.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope that you will use me anytime as a friend and adult, whatever of someone who has been through your name being in you.
[SPEAKER_00]: the spotlight, you know, and for me, it's been, you know, almost 20 years that my name has regurgitated over and over and it took me a long time to find my footing and to figure out how I was going to navigate through the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope that doesn't happen to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you're able to stumble and get up again and figure it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope you find the friends that you deserve and the love that you deserve from someone and it sounds like you have great family so that is good.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you need anything, you can always call me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much, I appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the last thing is like, what do you think is the most misunderstood thing about the situation or about you that you really wanna clear up with people?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people don't even think I'm a person.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people just see me as something to laugh at, because you see or anyone in the public are because you see when people get canceled too, it's just so much hate.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, people can make mistakes and you can choose to, you know, maybe, like, oh, that's weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or I don't support this person, but it's like, everybody's a person, everybody's living life for the first time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm 19.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm a 19-year-old girl in college and I just had something crazy happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, please, like, I just need the grace, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wish that for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're doing great.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm out of here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening to Ms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Understood.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, Rachel, you could tell.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much, and I'll see you next time.