Fans Not Stans

00:00:18
Speaker 1: I'm ready.

00:00:19
Speaker 2: I've got my coffee. Where you go, I've got my I'm not a real proper snub.

00:00:24
Speaker 1: I can drink coaked coffee, no problem, but something about infusing it with nitrogen. I'm really here for this. I'm gonna get one of those canisters where you spray whipped cream.

00:00:35
Speaker 2: To infuse my home coffee with natrogen. That's what I'm gonna do.

00:00:40
Speaker 3: This is the only I never thought everybody, Hello, Hello Caitlin. By the way, this is what I have to deal with on a not a daily basis, because that's Claire has to deal with that too much. But I am welcome Caitlin to my apartment again. And another episode of the Renae Stub Tennis podcasts. How do you feel about that not being part of it? The name, you know, considering you're on here half the time? Pretty much?

00:01:08
Speaker 1: I feel fine, And I'll tell you why, because in my Emperor justinian esque quest for power, I see this as one of the crown jewels of an entire network, a cabal, a collection, And just because not many of those other jewels exist yet doesn't mean that it's not part of a larger seismic shift. I see what I'm interested in Renee is not audience facing shine.

00:01:37
Speaker 2: I'm interested in power. I want to hold the levers and I want to pull them. Okay, So I don't feel bad.

00:01:42
Speaker 1: I feel great and I'm happy to be here in your apartment having spent a couple of days with your Australian friends who clearly have brought you a ton of Australian snacks.

00:01:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:01:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, you walked into my kitchen and want to demand in milk for your nitrogen coffee and whatever the.

00:01:56
Speaker 2: Hell that is. And then you notice that there was about five four packets of tim.

00:02:01
Speaker 3: Tamps, which my friends, my longest best friends from Australia are over here, two of which I have known since I was five years of age, so we went to preschool together, and another one since high school since twelve eleven. And the other two one worked with my best friend and I've known her for a long time, and one is married to She is married to a guy called Rob, and Rob is who we went to high school with. So Heather, Heidi, Helen, Tracy and Rosemary are all over here and we've had a blast. We had such a good day yesterday and we went over to Governor's Ireland, which was amazing yesterday, Caitlin, and of those who are in the Tristate area, I want to go to the best spa for.

00:02:46
Speaker 2: Like literally one hundred bucks.

00:02:48
Speaker 3: I sort of don't want to tell people because it's going to get inundated and I won't.

00:02:53
Speaker 2: Be able to get the slots that I want. Well, you know, you know some people.

00:02:56
Speaker 3: I do know some people, but I don't know if that's going to make any difference, but it could.

00:03:00
Speaker 2: I know the president of Government's Island who happens to be your wife. That's true.

00:03:04
Speaker 3: But the spark QC spar was it was so good, it was so worth it. It's literally I told you, oh my god, this is the best one hundred dollars you can spend in New York.

00:03:14
Speaker 2: And it's like three or four hours.

00:03:15
Speaker 3: You can just go in and use all the pools and the scrubbers.

00:03:19
Speaker 2: And the meditation. It was unreal.

00:03:23
Speaker 3: Honestly, I feel I feel like I should take everything back that I just said, because I swear every.

00:03:28
Speaker 2: Person I haven't been to it. Oh my god. Well that's a bit weird. It is a bit weird. Although your wife did say that she must take you there.

00:03:34
Speaker 3: She just doesn't have time, which I get it, firmly disagree with because I think there was there's always time.

00:03:40
Speaker 2: Well, but Claire tacked to the CEO clear.

00:03:43
Speaker 3: That let's go anyway. Okay, So it's been a great week so far and that events. We went to the Islanders hockey game last night. Thank you John Ladecki who owns the Islanders. He showed my friends a very good time. We're in the suite, we were down in the front row.

00:03:59
Speaker 2: It was awesome.

00:04:00
Speaker 1: So that they did a montage of America's coach you and Serena, you coaching Kishkova.

00:04:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, photos of you and Bouchard.

00:04:07
Speaker 1: I was they gave you the I the hero is welcome that you America's coach deserve.

00:04:12
Speaker 2: I had no idea who was going to do that. That was very embarrassing.

00:04:15
Speaker 1: But listen, I feel like you should make that in your raider. Whenever you show up anywhere, just play that the montage.

00:04:22
Speaker 3: I will say to him, where did you get that that that that photo shoot and where did you get that video?

00:04:27
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, did you pull that from YouTube? Anyway?

00:04:29
Speaker 3: He's like, I know a few people. So anyway, John Ladeki, thank you.

00:04:32
Speaker 2: So much.

00:04:33
Speaker 3: And if you know the Ladecki name, of course he is the uncle of Katie.

00:04:36
Speaker 2: I was going to ask the great swimmer, great.

00:04:38
Speaker 3: Swimmer, the multi greatest swimmer of all time, really female. Yeah, so yeah, anyway, it was a great night and the girls had an awesome night. He shoveled us out there in a beautiful, nice suv and it was just I felt like a pretty woman moment.

00:04:52
Speaker 2: So that was really nice. Well follows an all terrible.

00:04:54
Speaker 3: I suppose no fallow is awesome because I love ice hockey. So that was it was a lot of fun and that and the Islanders won five two.

00:05:01
Speaker 2: Well, I will be invited back now, sure you're the guy get us to a Yankees game. That's what I mentioned.

00:05:07
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, yeah for the Yankees because the one last night and I executive produced at ESPN. Bobby, he will be very excited that they won because I thought they got completely just they were so unlucky in that third game to go down to one. I mean there ahead, there were one out away from winning, and that was just two bloopers that landed in the middle of fucking. It must be so frustrating to be a baseball player and have that shit happened to you as as a pitcher, when the ball just goes in the end, it's like the easiest catch and oh nobody's standing in that area.

00:05:35
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, yes's really like the let Cords.

00:05:38
Speaker 3: Although although they did let the runners on because of an error from the you know, out in the outfield in the left field, that was not good and the guy was a rookie and they said he wasn't anyway anyway, but to finish it off, New York is in good shape as far as the sports concerned. Sadly, the Mets loss, so you know, the Macenroe brothers not too happy.

00:05:58
Speaker 1: I mean, I think anybody who's a Mets fan would be more surprised if they didn't lose in the postseason and some tragic this minute fashion.

00:06:05
Speaker 2: So if anything, it's a New York tradition. This is true. This is true.

00:06:08
Speaker 3: The Yankees know how to figure out a way to win, the Mets know how to figure out a way to lose. Anyway, Sorry, Mets fans, happy for the Yankees. Sad for the Dodgers. My buddies are have a big say in the La Dodgers, So sorry that they didn't get, including Billaging King, but including Billy Jing King. And but you know what, in the end of God, it's nice to see another team like San Diego who haven't been in the postseason for so long. And it'll be a bit of a fairy tale story if they win, and they deserve to win, because those fucking uniforms that they have to wear are horrendousness.

00:06:40
Speaker 2: They're wearing pooh, I like them.

00:06:42
Speaker 1: I like them really, I like the throwback uniforms San Diego patters are currently wearing like sort of a brown and goal.

00:06:49
Speaker 2: Pooh. It's not great. I mean, they weren't. They look like they're wearing ups. I like ups.

00:06:53
Speaker 3: Sure, it's okay anyway, all right, let's get onto tennis.

00:06:56
Speaker 1: So, despite the fact that most of the sporting world has shift that it's focused to baseball and now the winter sports are about to begin, such as basketball, tennis is still being played in few.

00:07:08
Speaker 2: Very illustrious places.

00:07:09
Speaker 1: We have, obviously, the tournament going on in Guadalajara, the San Diego Tournament just wrapped up. That was the first time it had returned to that city in quite a long time. We talked about it a little bit last week. We're going to talk about it again a little bit this week. The men are mostly in Europe. There was a bit of a controversy because Nah Bully, the tournament that is normally a two point fifty clay court is now for one season only, maybe more going forward, although based on what's happened so far, maybe not. The Asia swing getting decimated meant that a few tournaments in Europe had to scramble to put on events. Naples is now hosting a five hundred level event on hard courts, but the hard courts haven't been ready.

00:07:51
Speaker 2: They had to research hotots haven't been hot. They haven't been hard enough.

00:07:55
Speaker 1: They were wet from the ocean, they didn't get resurfaced well enough. They had on alternate sites in the in the city while they prepared the tournaments. Somebody got burgled, maybe at the home.

00:08:07
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just so Italy. It's a little southern Italy. It's I don't want a stereotype, but it does feel.

00:08:13
Speaker 3: No because we've who doesn't love Southern Italy. I mean, that's where you go for all day, not necessarily to play time, although I will say I did go other as a kid, but I did plan on clay.

00:08:22
Speaker 1: Yes, well, it's interesting because the club where they're playing is mostly clay, and then you have like these hard courts sort of incongruously thrown together. Listen, I'm all for beautiful places to visit which have which have a ton of you know, history and culture getting tennis events, because in my view, tennis should be a place that is bringing together culture, tourism, history and all these things. Maybe just a little bit more planning would have helped in this case. It's sort of been a little bit of a debacle. One place that is not happening Guadalajara. They put on a killer event.

00:08:56
Speaker 2: They put on a killer event.

00:08:57
Speaker 3: I was down for the WTA final with Sam Stosa and it was the first time I know going to Mexico and I thought to myself, Oh my god, I'm going I'm coming back here like all the time.

00:09:11
Speaker 2: I may even move here. You should move to Mexican. People could not be nicer. The fans love a tennis They.

00:09:19
Speaker 3: Are so enthusiastic as particularly for any Spanish speaking player. They go bonkers for if you're Spanish and you go down there, Oh my god, you're like God's gift. I mean, one of the reasons I think why Muga Witha won the tournament in Guadalajara.

00:09:32
Speaker 2: Hasn't won a match since, but played great India.

00:09:36
Speaker 1: They treated her like a local and she responded she was vibing and she had.

00:09:39
Speaker 3: To battle in matches there and the crowd absolutely made a difference.

00:09:43
Speaker 2: Polo Badosa will be tough to play there because of that.

00:09:46
Speaker 1: Even Caroline Garcia, who I think has some obviously like some Spanish heritage, but players for the French, was speaking a little Spanish with them last night after her win and getting the crowd railed up.

00:09:57
Speaker 2: Everyone was loving it.

00:09:58
Speaker 1: See you're just like Okay and La Poys. Let's talk about San Diego, yep. A couple of positives to take away a few things, maybe for room for improvement. We had a pretty great effort by Donna Vekch to come out of qualifying, ended up losing in three to EGA in the finals. She had a great tournament. She's back in the top fifty. What a great comeback for her she's had in the last couple of months.

00:10:25
Speaker 2: As just you know, as sad as.

00:10:28
Speaker 3: Our last episode was bringing up you know, Daria Gavrilova slash Savel. We have to just call her Savel now, but a lot of people don't know her married name, you know, having her knee reconstruction with their aco and if you follow her on Twitter, she's starting to walk, starting to even get into a bit of a bit incredible. But she's a psycho with her tiktoks And she even had to apologize for one because people must have been like, oh my god, what are you doing. She was like twirling on her knee and everyone was like panic, she was going to break it again.

00:10:57
Speaker 2: And a great story is Donna Vikache and Donna and I.

00:11:00
Speaker 3: Are you know, known each other a long time. She's a friend, and you know, look, she is the most honest person. And I don't think she'll mind me talking about this because I'd love to get her on the pot actually.

00:11:12
Speaker 2: In the next week or two.

00:11:13
Speaker 3: But look, when she came back from her injury, she had you know, it was hard for her to do a lot of training because of the state of her injury.

00:11:22
Speaker 2: And you know, she put on a lot of weight when she came back.

00:11:26
Speaker 3: And she would be the first person to say when we had conversations and.

00:11:29
Speaker 2: I she said, look, I just have to lose the weight.

00:11:32
Speaker 3: You know, she knews she had to lose weight. She was a bit she wasn't getting to balls. I mean, she's a big hitter, so she she's not kind of ever going to be a retriever. But when she before the injury, she was like top twenty. She was playing unbelievable. She had that US Open run losing to Benchic, you know, a couple of years.

00:11:49
Speaker 2: Ago, and she just wasn't moving great.

00:11:51
Speaker 3: And Sam played her in doubles twice actually two weeks in a row, and you know, we just sat down and had a chat afterwards. And we've always had a pretty open relationship ship about talking about things, and she just said, you know, I've got to lose weight. I have to get fitter, and you know, and I just said it will come with time.

00:12:06
Speaker 2: It will come with time. She every time I saw her eating, she was eating. Well, she just you know, these are the things that take a while. Sometimes it don't happen overnight.

00:12:15
Speaker 3: And the fact that she battled and she had some shitty drawers too at the Slams, and the fact that she got through qualifying in San Diego, which was such a tough draw, and to make the final. Kudos to my buddy donovek Like, she's such a delight, she's such a fun person.

00:12:32
Speaker 2: She's got a great sense of humor, she's got game, and she fought.

00:12:35
Speaker 3: I mean, she fought in that final against Eager and she could have you know, thrown the talon. But she's also a seasoned veteran now, you know, she's won a lot of tournaments, she's had a lot of but she's also had ald of pressure on he shoulders since she was a young kid, you know, to be the next whatever. And so she's now technically that veteran on tour that has had to battle.

00:12:55
Speaker 2: And so I'm super super, super super happy for her, and she'll keep playing well now now that she's on the track again. Yeah, the train is on the track. Yeah, she's moving while she's heading, while she's battling.

00:13:03
Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that's really encouraging to watch, which is why I always prefer sort of like a for me narratively, like a comeback story is a little bit more exciting than like a youth story.

00:13:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:13:16
Speaker 1: I just sort of I'm very sels battle for the oldies. I do, because I think she's not even old. She's like she's twenty five.

00:13:23
Speaker 3: I remember having that conversation with I was like, well, you know, because I don't know, she's been around so long. I thought maybe she was like twenty seven, twenty eight, getting up to thirty, you know.

00:13:31
Speaker 2: And she's like, oh, I'm twenty five.

00:13:33
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh my god, I got Donna and she's been a pro for seven longer years, right, longer, Like she's been out there since she was like fifteen.

00:13:41
Speaker 2: That's insane. Yeah, So I said, Donna, I said, I know you've been outed forever, and trust me, it feels like you are have been because you have. I said, but you have so much time. Yeah, you know. And this is the great thing about tennis now, with the money.

00:13:53
Speaker 1: That's involved and the rehabbing Jetty and the training, everything, everything.

00:13:59
Speaker 3: But the money so good now, Caitlin, that you can really take have a year or two off from an injury and come back as long as you're good, which she is, train hard, and you'll get back and look at Dasher, you know, coming back after her fourth friggin surgery.

00:14:12
Speaker 2: Basically, if you are good.

00:14:14
Speaker 3: And you have the strength to do the rehab and come back, and you have the fortitude to not give up mentally. When you're not, things don't go your way early on in the comeback, and it didn't for dinner.

00:14:28
Speaker 2: She had to really, she's had to. Yeah, a lot of these comebacks take a lot a long time, you know.

00:14:32
Speaker 3: And then I think she did well at Wimbledon and didn't get points like so you know, things like that. So look, I'm just super super happy. And as you said, it's almost the better stories. Sometimes the young ones are great.

00:14:42
Speaker 2: The young ones are great.

00:14:43
Speaker 1: But I think I think about this a lot because my parents are classical musicians, and one of the things that classical music has always sort of lighted are prodigies.

00:14:50
Speaker 2: Obviously, that goes back to like Mozart. If you see a kid playing, he was pretty good.

00:14:54
Speaker 1: Motzo was pretty good, sure, compositionally, but I think if you think about players who are able to you perform really high wire acts with concertos, trumpet concerto, viola, concertos, soilin concerto, it's great.

00:15:06
Speaker 2: They have a lot of talent and skill.

00:15:07
Speaker 1: But something that musicians talk about a lot about is this idea of musicianship. A lot of people can play the notes and be very proficient at performing really skillfully, but it's imbued with a lot more meaning. If you're older, you've seen a little bit more of life, you've had heartbreak, you've had well, it's just why you see them cry, which is why when you see somebody like Donoveca come back after an injury, make a final, have a good year back to get into the top fifty, to me, it's a little bit more meaningful because you can see what it means to them, and I think for me, you know, I love it's great and exciting to watch a young talent. It's sometimes even more meaningful, which is why when Francesca Sciovone well, for example, when the French Open, or some of these late in career success stories, you get so so excited.

00:15:52
Speaker 2: I get so excited.

00:15:53
Speaker 3: Anybody at they age you like twenty thirty, thirty one, thirty two wins a Slam.

00:15:57
Speaker 2: You're just like, yes, you know, you've put on the work and.

00:16:00
Speaker 3: There was a lot there for a while, le Nah, even Sam Stosa Skiv, all these players that you know, one later in their careers. It's it's it's why people cry so much.

00:16:14
Speaker 2: And people always like, what do they cry when they win?

00:16:16
Speaker 3: I go the amount of energy that they put into winning this event, and they've had to keep their shit together for two weeks.

00:16:22
Speaker 1: Years long efforts comminating in two weeks of high performance.

00:16:25
Speaker 2: That is really minified me. You can't think about the finish line.

00:16:28
Speaker 3: You have to you always have to be in the present when you're playing a Grand Slam. You can't allow you can't even allow yourself to think about what if I win. Like people, I'm always like, you don't think about what you're going to do when you win a Grand Slam. You don't go, I'm going to fall on the ground, now I'm going to do this. You never allow yourself to think that. In a lot of ways, you're just playing them.

00:16:45
Speaker 2: You do when you're a kid, when you become a professional, like what am I going to do? You just sew in the now.

00:16:50
Speaker 3: And that's why you'll always see most of the time, players that win Grand Slams do the exact same motion.

00:16:58
Speaker 2: Whatever it is.

00:16:58
Speaker 3: Mine was always to put my hand in the air and have my racket in my left hand.

00:17:01
Speaker 2: It's weird every photo or just you like lose consciousness and you do this thing.

00:17:05
Speaker 3: It's the same and I do a little bit of a backbend and my left hand. I've seen that racket is in my left hand every time, every big moment of my career.

00:17:13
Speaker 2: That's what happens.

00:17:14
Speaker 3: Lisa Raymond used to drop her racket and do a double hand fist like like open hand in the air. It's weird, you know, and Rafa would fall on the ground and you.

00:17:26
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, it's almost like you lose. It's the one moment where you can really truly just let go.

00:17:31
Speaker 1: You're letting go and you're just being completely in the moment. It's an interesting I mean, again, not to take anything away from youthful talent, but I think when you see how much youthful talent gets misconstrued or burnout or taken advantage of, it's there's a little bit of a dark undercurrent to that. Whereas a comeback story as well, is you know, for me a little bit more narratively satisfying. Let's talk about ego a little bit. Obviously, she had a fantastic tournament. She has had an incredible fall she's had.

00:17:54
Speaker 3: And an incredible couple of weeks because she lost that really tough.

00:17:58
Speaker 1: Match Kridjakova in Traveler and then and should have won the tournament.

00:18:03
Speaker 3: She should she served for the match. She definitely should have won that match, but again kudos to Kridjikova, who also has had an incredibly tough year with injuries and various things. And you know, to get on a plane immediately after that and fly all the way to San Diego, which is across the world, literally play on a different surface, completely different conditions in our side, different balls. Like when people say, why is tennis so the hardest sport, I'm going, that's why you don't get on you you don't get on your private team plane and fly there and sleep all night and have people take your fucking bags up to your room and like unpack for you.

00:18:39
Speaker 2: That's literally what happens. Like basketball team they unpack their bags. They literally have staff that take their bags to their rooms. Oh yeah, my friends used to tell me that.

00:18:47
Speaker 3: I said what I was like, even the greatest players in the world and tennis have to take their own ship to their rooms so that maybe the hotel will help them with a trolley, but sometimes not at two in the morning. So you know, she slepts over to San Diego after that tough loss, battles through a lot of tough matches.

00:19:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, she had a struggling she had a cold in the Czech Republic.

00:19:08
Speaker 1: Honestly, when you say it's almost enough for me to hear playing well well sick, I can't even like get my shoes on my feet while I'm sick, much less like play tennis, much less play tennis at a professional level. So I feel like it cannot be overstated how long this season is, how hard the demands of a tournament for two weeks straight are, where you have to wake up, train, warm up, prepare, perform, cool down. You're just it's such a full on experience and it goes on so long. So for somebody to like tell me I'm having a cold and I just lost a three set match indoors in the Czech Republic.

00:19:40
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm out. Yeah, I actually got to tell you, happily for victory, she's coming.

00:19:45
Speaker 3: Over here for Guadalajara and you know, WTA finals and all that sort of stuff. But geez, if there was ever a way to like pull the plug in a tournament, actually shocked and good for her to battle through for sure that tournament.

00:20:06
Speaker 2: So way to go, eager. You just let everybody know why you're the world's number one and why you're gonna be around for a really long time because you're of your commitment to the tour for sure, and that was announced.

00:20:16
Speaker 1: And I think also, you know, thinking about that Donna Vecach match specifically, you know, she gets down, she loses a set, Donna played a brilliant second set. Eaga's level dipped a little bit, and then you get this sense when Ego gets in these three set situations. We saw it earlier in the tournament with my favorite gal Chin. When you've seen it a number of times. Ego doesn't go to three sets very often, but when she does.

00:20:38
Speaker 2: You know, when she doesn't go three sets in the finals? Yeah, almost never in the final ever, she's the last two of being three sets.

00:20:46
Speaker 1: IgA loses a set and sees it as like sort of a motivation because she runs away with the third sets usually. Yeah, it's really amazing, and we should address because I caused I caused a Twitter conflagration.

00:21:01
Speaker 2: You did, I did not me?

00:21:03
Speaker 1: No Renee for not for once talking about Ego's pattern, and I want to call it a pattern and not anything else. Of throwing up her hands to seemingly distract her opponents when they're trying to pass her at the net. It's not against the rules, but it is something that I called out as seeing something I would like to see her stop doing. It's happened on a number of occasions, I want to say, like maybe three or four.

00:21:27
Speaker 2: There's a compilation video on the internet to her credit. I called her out some of that.

00:21:33
Speaker 3: Some of that stuff on that video was shit. Though at the end it was like and it wasn't it. I mean some of the there was some that were not great, but there was some that were just like, okay, what is that? Well, there were some like double bounces, Yeah, but okay, So that one double bounce of the French that was questionable, There's no question about it. But sometimes when you put your head down, you're not quite sure if your wreck it actually got under it.

00:21:54
Speaker 2: So I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on that one. I disagree. I think you always know when it's double bounce, and I.

00:21:59
Speaker 3: Like not when you not when you really really throw your head out, when you throw your racket out.

00:22:02
Speaker 2: And your head is down, that's questionable. That is what the only time that's questionable. But I want to see players fall that one of themselves.

00:22:10
Speaker 3: If it hits your racket strings like fairly in the center, then you probably know. So I would say that she probably won't ever do that again.

00:22:20
Speaker 2: I hope not.

00:22:21
Speaker 1: And to her credit, she saw a lot of the backlash and said, hey, Donna, great mash today. I'm sorry for throwing my hands up at the net. And let's hope it does it's not it doesn't continue. I don't think it's a huge nos.

00:22:34
Speaker 3: Along those lines, you and I we always have a thoughtful conversation about things like this because I really feel like I try to have empathy for the players.

00:22:43
Speaker 2: I also try and have.

00:22:45
Speaker 3: The empathy for players that I know are good people. And for example, like Eager, she Untach is the nicest kid you'll ever meet, Like just so respectful, so nice, beyond. Uh, she's she's beyond, not a diva like all of the things and so.

00:23:05
Speaker 2: But she's a kid. She's twenty one. She is a kid.

00:23:07
Speaker 3: She's learning all these things through the And you know, I played doubles with somebody and I wrote this on my Twitter feedback to you, and I played doubles with somebody Kara Black, who was.

00:23:17
Speaker 2: One of the greatest doubles players of all time. And Kara used to do.

00:23:20
Speaker 3: That's very similar thing when I hit my serve or when I played against Kara, so she would sort of throw her hands up to fake if she was going or not. And there were times where I sorta noticed it, but not really. You don't really notice it because when you're hitting the ball, you don't really you can't really see that.

00:23:37
Speaker 2: You sort of see someone sort of move, but you don't really see them. They don't really distract you in that sense, but you do see them.

00:23:46
Speaker 3: And in the w tare rules which I specifically read before I wrote you back, which you'll be proud of me, because.

00:23:54
Speaker 2: I'm proud of it. Normally I react and I don't actually check the rule.

00:23:56
Speaker 3: Look at you, I know, And not only did I look it up, but I looked at the if and are they different?

00:24:02
Speaker 2: I looked up.

00:24:03
Speaker 3: This is where I think, this is where the conversation for today needs to go.

00:24:06
Speaker 2: Yes, Eager learned. Maybe she won't do it anymore.

00:24:09
Speaker 3: I do think it's a bit of a sort of like a little tick for her to do now, you know, And you've got to get out of that, like you do these habit habitual things, and it's a habitual thing where she's trying to fake if she's going here or going there. I mean Kirby used to do that sometimes as well when you played dead and she would like, you know, it's all a little bit of a little bit of gamesmanship. But really in the rule book it's there's nothing in there. So I read the IF rule book about hindrance, and that is not in there, like hindrance with your hands now it's hindrance. Sure it says hindrance, But what's hindrance to the umpire? Right, So that's up to the umpire. I read the WTA, but it's like it's even more ambiguous. It's like, ah, you know, if your hat drops off your head, if you're if you're wearing a towel on your skirt, for example, and it falls on the ground, or a ball comes out of your pocket. Sure there are all hindrances that the umpire can be like, h hindrance warning if that happens again, you're gonna lose a point.

00:25:02
Speaker 2: Right, That's all the stuff that we used to.

00:25:04
Speaker 3: But there's no hand waving hindrance. Now, there's nothing in there saying if you yell, come on yeah, right, Like and Serena and.

00:25:13
Speaker 1: That has been called on Serena and that it's led to some very intense.

00:25:17
Speaker 3: It is, but also Serena knows that Serena knew that she was wrong because later on that same year, so the infamous one was against Sam Stosa, she lost the game and lost her shit. And but months maybe a couple months later, she did it in Doha in the WTA finals and it was a really bad one and she looked at the unpote she goes, I know, like she knew, right, so she said, come on, and the girl I don't know, I think might have been against Wisniyaki and she got to just like and she and there's like start hindrance and Serena just looks at unpaper. I know, yeah, so you know you kind of there are things that happened like that was a tick for Serena, Oh my god, because she would say.

00:25:54
Speaker 2: Come on, So she's trying to fare herself up.

00:25:55
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I think that this gray area exists because when you're an extremely compared a person in an extremely competitive environment.

00:26:02
Speaker 2: I'm thinking back to D one tennis that.

00:26:04
Speaker 1: I played, girls are squiggling their feet trying to stutter step.

00:26:08
Speaker 2: Is that a hindrance, Well is it? Or who does that all the time? Your favorite? I don't know who my favorite is. I have so many favorites.

00:26:17
Speaker 3: Oh she does do that, right, and so people would say about her all the time. I would say that she's squeaking a fate before I call it, But then you watch her practice and she doesn't.

00:26:25
Speaker 2: So it's just the theme again.

00:26:27
Speaker 1: I think in the case of what I want to commend, and we also what I want to discuss. So I think you're The point you're making, which I agree with, is the less ambiguity the better. And more importantly to me, which is not that we shouldn't address ambiguity, we should, you know, rules and conversations should I think consistently evolve, which is where is the line between competitive and hinder hindering an opponent, and where is a good faith conversation about intentions going to take place? What I saw from Ego, which was she got called that it's not the first time, and it's and you know, it's it's been a bit of an open conversation and she immediately was like, oh, yeah, sorry, I shouldn't do that.

00:27:09
Speaker 2: Great, that's a.

00:27:10
Speaker 1: Fantastic end result because to me that indicates her intention is not to hinder. It's just she's in a competitive headspace and and it probably is a little bit of a maybe a leftover from junior tennis. But I think for me, what I want to really get into is what the sort of good faith conversation about that that can sort of happen with tennis fandoms and on the internet and commentators and all this sort of stuff, because I.

00:27:33
Speaker 2: Think that's everywhere. But before we get into that, we get some partisanship.

00:27:37
Speaker 3: I do want to stress also that until a player that EGA is playing against complains about that, it's a non starter. So fans need to shut the fuck up sometimes.

00:27:51
Speaker 2: With shit like this, because.

00:27:55
Speaker 3: If Donna had complained about that and and or has said something about her actions, then you can say, Okay, well.

00:28:02
Speaker 2: She was clearly distracted that killing.

00:28:04
Speaker 3: But if Donna just turns around and just walks away and doesn't say any exampire, why are you getting your panties.

00:28:08
Speaker 2: In a twist? Not you. I'm not yelling at you, even though you did get your panties. I did twist, yeah, But you see what I'm saying.

00:28:15
Speaker 3: Like, so I come from the player's perspective of Okay, I'm a fan as well. When I watch sometimes and I'm like, oh, that was bush League. But then I'm like, wait a second. Donna had no problem with it, so.

00:28:24
Speaker 2: What do I have a problem.

00:28:24
Speaker 1: Although people are paling on Donna right now because a photographer posted a picture of Donna saying what is she thinking about? And someone said how she should have drilled Eager in the chest after that handweaving incident, and Donna responded with laughing emojis, and now everyone's like, well, Donna's condoning violin.

00:28:40
Speaker 2: No is that Donna's the funniest. They're just funny. Like I just think everybody's the funny, your co workers for the most person.

00:28:46
Speaker 1: Exactly, We're not going to attribute beefs to them unless they come out.

00:28:49
Speaker 3: She didn't ride back and go yeah I will next time. Yeah, Yeah, She was like funny, it's funny.

00:28:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think what I want to sort of get.

00:28:57
Speaker 1: Into, she didn't need a driller because she's the point and she had a great passage.

00:29:01
Speaker 3: So my point point is everyone com the fomb until the PLI starts speaching about it.

00:29:05
Speaker 1: I including, well, I don't agree with you, but I think what I can agree with.

00:29:10
Speaker 2: Is there we go, there's that y what I do? What I do want to sort of address and I've gotten into it. This is a new fandom that I've made upset.

00:29:17
Speaker 1: I've made that Nadal fandom very upset before, I've made the Djokovic fandom extremely upset.

00:29:21
Speaker 2: All you make the Djokovic who doesn't upset on who doesn't make alive?

00:29:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean listen, if you're not consistently praising Novak Djokovic for something every single day, you're anti Novak Jokovic, I think, and those guys kind of deserve to be treated in their own sort of vacuum, which.

00:29:38
Speaker 2: Is they've I think lost the plot in a lot of ways.

00:29:42
Speaker 1: But I think when it comes to fandoms and standems, uh, Serena's fans have been like this. You know, anybody who's really really good as Ega is, as Serena is, as Novak is, as Nadal is, and et cetera, there is sort of And again this is mostly speaking about tennis Twitter t T for short, which is maybe not anyone's best venue for being their best self, No myself included, Yez, I don't know how you wanna talk about your own Twitter presence, But I'll just say definitely myself, it's not necessarily my best venue. I think there's a tendency to devolve into worship, and to me, I don't mind so much people blindly loving one player as much as I like, as I don't like the idea of having a lack of good faith engagement with other people where there's some sort of like, hey, it is possible to both really like a player but also have a valid criticism of that player. Do I like EGA's game? Absolutely? Do I love her clothes? Nope, I don't like them on Coco Vandaway. I don't like those A six clothes when you know Juliah Gordon Jurgis used to wear them like they're just ugly. Can I say her game is pretty in her closer ugly? I think so, And I would hope most reasonable people would be like, oh, that's an opinion you have, well, because you.

00:30:57
Speaker 3: Might use you want to make her game her clothes look as good as her game.

00:31:02
Speaker 2: There you go, her clothes should look as That's exactly right.

00:31:05
Speaker 1: And similarly, when I've when I've critiqued something about Rafa, for example, the foul you have always hitted Rafa, It's like in what world. We had a conversation over that, and I was listening over just recently to some.

00:31:17
Speaker 2: Of our back episodes.

00:31:19
Speaker 1: You had a point that I vehemently agreed with about how any player chucking a racket. In the case that we were discussing, it was Bagu, but it's happened many times with players. If you chuck a racket and it comes close to hitting fans, if it comes close to hitting umpires, ball kids, lines, people, anybody for whom this no no.

00:31:38
Speaker 2: If.

00:31:38
Speaker 3: My thing was, if you throw a racket and it ends up in the crowd, you're done. Default, even if it's no one sitting there.

00:31:44
Speaker 2: Default.

00:31:44
Speaker 3: You are a professional tennis player. You know how to throw a racket, and you know what throwing a racket what is capable of happening? Yeah, you can serious control yourself. And I listen, Renee stops not the best advocate for keeping your shit together on the tennis court, probably one.

00:32:00
Speaker 2: Of the worst. But I was not a racket thrower. Will you see this from experience? Definitely say this from experience.

00:32:07
Speaker 3: I've had point penalties, I've never had a game penalty, and I've never been defaulted for a match.

00:32:11
Speaker 2: But I have pushed the envelope a lot.

00:32:14
Speaker 3: And I'm swear to God, every Gold Badge that's working today had to do my match to get.

00:32:19
Speaker 2: Through to the Gold Badge area. I'm not kidding you.

00:32:21
Speaker 3: Like literally, sometimes I would see a new umpire in the chair and then I would see one of the Gold Badge because they all get graded. I would see one of the Gold Badge graded umpires sitting in the stands watching the match, and I'd literally look at them.

00:32:33
Speaker 2: And be like, Oh, it's testing time. Interesting, you know. So I mean, listen, I know what next, gartlet it is.

00:32:39
Speaker 3: You got to get through me. It's in a match to get your Gold Badge. Because I will push every button on the court. And so it's with experience that you say. It's with experience and know what it's like to lose your mind and lose your temper and not be able to control yourself sometimes. And I absolutely pushed every one of those boundaries. And I can say that if I threw my racket and it went into the ground and the ump I said that's it, Renee, I would go I would be pissed. I would make an argument for it. But I know that that is a rule. I would be like, I'm done. Like if I hit a ball like Djokovic did a couple of years ago and wasn't blatantly looking to see if anyone was back there, and I just pinged it back there, which he did and it hit lines, lady, I would know that I'd be defaulted in a matter of three seconds. There wouldn't be a conversation that was had at the US Open that. I mean, that was a fucking joke with them coming out.

00:33:35
Speaker 1: I was like, there's no, there's no everybody who plays it's a blank junior tennis rule, kyloge tennis, recreational tennis. If you hit a thing, whether that's a ball or a racket, that it's out and if somebody didn't see it.

00:33:47
Speaker 2: I mean that's and your point is like that situation.

00:33:50
Speaker 3: I mean, the Novak fans just were because I was very adamant on ESPN that day that.

00:33:54
Speaker 2: It's a it's just a cut. There's no ambiguity in this rule. And it was like, oh, he didn't do it in anger, what are you talking about. I'm like, I us a manner. First of all, it was in he was upset.

00:34:06
Speaker 3: And I'm convinced to this day he was trying to hit it towards his box, which he does all the time, and he forgot that there were lines, lady, there was lines of people back there.

00:34:14
Speaker 2: I really do.

00:34:14
Speaker 3: I don't think he had any intention clearly of hitting anyone.

00:34:18
Speaker 2: So Tennis got Yeah, I think he was trying to make it. He was trying to fling it at.

00:34:23
Speaker 3: His box, which as I said, he does all the time, and he fucked up, and that was.

00:34:29
Speaker 2: The Yeah, he got unlucky.

00:34:30
Speaker 1: But after a certain point, I mean you've seen I've seen him, God.

00:34:33
Speaker 2: Throw his racket into the stands at the Olympics.

00:34:35
Speaker 1: I would have defaulted him for that, even though there was zero spectators at the Olympic.

00:34:38
Speaker 3: But I mean the list is long, right, I mean Nick Currios, like Tre's.

00:34:43
Speaker 1: Curios, has gotten defaulted from tournaments and deserved it, including that one in Italy where he went after the empire, Like yeah, I have no tolerance for any player who does it. And that's what I want to kind of talk about in terms of the context of standem the difference between being a fan and a stand If you're a fan, you like tennis, maybe you have your favorites. Of of course we all kind of do, but you can understand generally the argument and enjoy the greater contract.

00:35:05
Speaker 2: The fact that.

00:35:06
Speaker 3: Novak's fans didn't think he should have been defaulted in that and the abuse I copped for that, it was just weird.

00:35:11
Speaker 2: Every single one of the people on risdiculous.

00:35:13
Speaker 1: Yes, I just want to differentiate the difference between fan somebody who obviously has their favorites, they understand the game, maybe they.

00:35:20
Speaker 2: Like certain players more than others, and a Stan.

00:35:22
Speaker 1: A Stan is somebody named after the eminem song who blindly supports one player to the end of the earth in a way that I would argue is net negative, destructive, obsessive, in a way that I think lessens the enjoyment of other people of that of that fan.

00:35:38
Speaker 2: Try you feel hurt, don't you? You've been abused.

00:35:42
Speaker 1: I didn't see that one coming because I didn't think it was particularly I didn't think it was particularly egregious.

00:35:46
Speaker 2: I think most people you didn't realize that there was Stan Eagers.

00:35:50
Speaker 3: I love that their standing egos. Actually, I think this girl's name had Eager in it. Yeah, g was like a different letter or something.

00:35:56
Speaker 1: Anyway, I appreciate that every player now is especially somebody as good as Ego is getting their due in terms of having a diverted fan base. I would just say, don't be a stand such that you are blinded to the faults of your own player, such that you can't hold them to a higher standard, as which I.

00:36:11
Speaker 2: Think we should all be doing. You know who don't have stands pickleball players get out of here.

00:36:16
Speaker 1: They don't deserve them, they don't have them, And we'll leave it at that. Anything else we should address before.

00:36:22
Speaker 2: On the stands, No, just generally, did I mention Blinkover? You didn't.

00:36:26
Speaker 3: I didn't mention that, did I because we were talking about sort of journey women, which I hate that word. But Anna Blinkover, who has no flag next to her name, obviously because we know where she's from, but.

00:36:37
Speaker 2: She is the nicest kid in the world.

00:36:40
Speaker 3: Like when you see to the point where I'll give you a little story so to you last year in Cincinnati, when Sam and Shue won the doubles in Cincinnati, they played blink Over, I believe in the quarters or the semis, I'm not sure which one, and my girls were down a set and five one five to one. Okay, and they came back and won that match and then therefore ended up winning the tournament. And then one that you was open too.

00:37:00
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah right, So that was like a massive comeback for them, and they were down the hole. One could argue it. It started to read at that.

00:37:07
Speaker 3: So who did they play and that one of that blink over? Okay, they choked so bad in this match and Sam and that came back. This kid, I see her five minutes after the match. I think, I mean, for me, I'd kill myself. I would be walking back to the hotel. There's no chance I'd be talking to people, would not be allowed to be cut. But they just stay away from me for at least forty eight hours. I see this girl. She it could not be nicer. She's smiling, She's like, oh, it was a good match.

00:37:35
Speaker 2: Good match. I'd be like, good match. She was so sweet. When I say sweet, I mean so nice. Good luck in the next match.

00:37:43
Speaker 3: And also, oh my god, I'm gonna lie you remember, And I always liked her even up until that point, but then since that moment, I mean, just the nicest kid you'll ever meet. And the fact she got through qualifying as well. So we almost had two players get through qualies and win the tournament.

00:37:57
Speaker 2: This is include the Transylvania Open.

00:38:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. That's good branding they had. They need a tournament song. But I'm into this.

00:38:06
Speaker 2: Everybody owning there Reminia, I'm.

00:38:09
Speaker 1: Dangn to go to Romania and okay, well, you know, I'll talk to Hallip, thank you.

00:38:13
Speaker 2: She'll probably get you. Yeah, yeah, get me the Antiac's privat yet all that, I'll go. Then i'd go then yeah, then I'm.

00:38:19
Speaker 3: Sure that privage have a lot of one eight hundred. Definitely call me crazy ship. Anyway, So blink over and are well done?

00:38:26
Speaker 2: So good?

00:38:27
Speaker 3: I mean this kid, you know, she's on the edge of like getting into slams and getting crappy drawers, and.

00:38:33
Speaker 2: You know, and then all of a sudden gets through qualifying here and it has.

00:38:35
Speaker 3: A great event, and then we'll move her ranking up, gets her into Grand Slams, which is so important for place.

00:38:39
Speaker 2: That's where they make their dough. When we who where are her stands? Where are her stands? Let's hear it from if you there's probably a few blink over stands. If we hear from you, I don't think she'll allow stands good. She's a nice kid, she's a nice down but anyway, so yeah, I think that's we're wrapped up, all right.

00:38:55
Speaker 1: Well, we got to talk about the finals next. We'll see that for another week. Yep, the A T, P and w T finals are looming. People are still qualifying. It's exciting looming. They're looming, and you know other people are already in, like the Maldives on vacation. This is my funny part of this is the funny part of the season where like half of.

00:39:14
Speaker 3: Where's Peko when we needed a picture about the tennis plays and the maldis running into everybody. Although give the Maldi's a hard time. It's the best place in the world to go, but just not all at the same time.

00:39:25
Speaker 2: They will continue sinking.

00:39:26
Speaker 3: But it's in the middle of the world, so you know Europeans can go. I'm seeing nothing mutual time. Have you been to the Maldi No, I would, That's not the kind of place I would go.

00:39:36
Speaker 2: Really. No, the QC SPA, though I would go to SPA.

00:39:40
Speaker 1: Shout out to Governor's Island Governors, your Australians have arrived.

00:39:44
Speaker 2: Yes, part of us we're going to Worsbog today.

00:39:52
Speaker 1: Bye.