2022 Projected Starters AUTOPSY

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Speaker 1: Be around the NFL podcast. The Jets will win the super Bowl. It's what a crazy person would say, yea from the Chris Wesley podcast studio, it's around the NFL. I'm Dan Hansas. I got heroes here, some of them. Greg Rosenthal, Mark Sessler, hearty, hearty. Thank you to everyone an outpouring on the old social media of positivity and congratulations and strolling down memory lane after we made our big E IS for Extension announcement on Thursday's show. So thank you to everybody who said kind words. That is look at Mark. Sharon says be kind on it four times in different letters, and certainly that's what we felt from the listeners and everyone else in the business. That was my order to them, and they responded with kindness, and I appreciate it. Is it is that like a self reminder or you're telling be kind that's what you should. It's actually, um my wife's T shirt. I'll start there, but um, when I wear it, it doesn't necessarily translate into my own mood, so I'm not taking my own note. Is that a humble brag or I don't know where to take that. You're wearing your wife's shirt, your wife is a slender woman herself, and you're just saying you guys can share wardrobe. Now that's where you're at. I think it's a T shirt. You're not even sure it was a female's T shirt. It just was. I've noticed it, but you share it. That is interesting. Do you share it in the other like undergarments? No, not that I know. I've I've usurped that this is now my shirt, So okay, it's serious. Do you ever catch a scent of Oh, it's it's spirit anti presse frint I have. I mean, I think we've all done this in a pinch, like when you when you run out of your men's deodorant. There have been times when I've used it was secret. It was a version of secrets, and I have to say spirit, it work teen Spirit. She does not wear a teen Spirit, but secret actually worked very well. That's what they had saying. That's what they had say. Well, I thought it. I thought I would overpower it with my scent and it did not happen. You're right there, And it was very nice to hear from the listeners because they'll remember shows. There was that one thread of like it was someone's five favorite shows, and I can't remember half of the I mean when they they tell us about it, then you remember it. But it's just been so long since you thought about some of those shows. We're now going to be entering our tenth season together and um, you know, we're becoming older men. And I appreciate when when you guys remind us of some of the things you enjoyed in the past. Oh I love those Uh, it's like learning it for the first time. Yeah. I love when we hear from the listeners like, oh, you you know I just graduated from college, Like you know, I've been listening to you since I started high school. Was like, whoa, we've been doing this that long? Like we have what what has happened? Where has the time gone? And also, like I said, whether it was a private text or you know, an email or social media, all the people that said nice things, people that we know. Now we're gonna have to start catalog and we're gonna go back in catalog. Who we didn't hear from. I don't think I heard from anyone from many people. I don't think anyone reached that mark. Now that we are under contract, um for more years at the NFL, um, they're gonna be asking more from you, and I was thinking side podcasts right off the top of my head for you two podcast potentials with Mark Sessler. No, I hate that and it's just nothing but nothing NFL related, but all the other sparts. I don't like the way that the that you're saying, that you're voicing that, Oh, so you wanted to be Sparts. No, I do not want that. I already told you before the show that that actual clip that you do is annoying to me. But tell me what you wanted to be sports with Mark? So that's closer to it, although I don't I'd rather pick a different topic. That was the title of Katie Nolan's podcast sports Start. I have to start watching other sports, which sounds time consuming. Then I had one other and I'll keep work shopping this because I just assume you won't like any of them. But this guy gets it with Marx that I can work with that. It sounds like I could hit touch on any sort of topic that that pleases me. Coming up today, one of my favorite football figures and the coaching ranks in the last twenty years, Mike west Off. He has a new book coming out called figure it Out my thirty two year journey while revolutionizing Pro Football Special Teams. About that book too, I mean he went to work. I mean look at the flex right right in the subhead there when you say I revolutionized Pro football special teams. Yeah, I mean I get it. That's a commanding title too. Like your shirt, it's it's a it's an order figure it out. I assume Greg that you've already read the entire book, considering that we're having him on as a guest discussed right, it's powered through it. Over the weekend, Kevin Danger's in town and said, keV, I'm gonna take a break. I gotta read another two pages of west Off biography with Barry. Barry Wilner UM also coming up today, Um, Greg, one of your I bet it's one of your better UM Traffics pieces. Projected Starters series. You go through each division, each team, take a closer look. Now it's time to put these teams on the slab. It's an autopsy, stick through it. Projected Starters autopsy. How do you feel about that? I feel like you always would have liked to be in the writer's room for like a TV procedure in a different life maybe and this is your chain, your chance. I do have a question that I mean, I brought this up to you also before the show. This is the time of year where all thirty two teams are you know generic, they're very much alive. They've not been injured or you know, they not their weaknesses have not been exposed, and we're calling them that they are all dead and we're opening up their bodies because the rosters are a living thing. And it's very annoying writing this every year. The editors that the second you posted, of course, it's like, oh Stefan tour retired, Oh can you go? Can we just say oh this this or that happened? Oh this, you know, and it's like, we just gotta we just gotta rewrite this for the next three months. We did not update the Alex Mack retirement. So maybe the maybe let me clarify the autopsy is on the series itself. Okay, So now Greg his his football mind, has dug through all these teams, and now we're going to pick through the remains of Gregg's insane rantings, like the rantings, the takes that go with it, more than the projected starters and speaking of insane rantings on the back of the west Off book this, how about this what do they call the little pool quotes? Yeah, it's basically your blurb but blurb. Yeah, we called Mike west Off the mad scientist. He changed the game. Rock Goodell Comma NFL commissioner. Do you think or did did a Goodell handler? How about you asked Mike west Off that when he's on I promised to ask that question. It's very outspoken. I think Willner reached that to a pr representative with the NFL told them what they were looking for. They got an email back, and now I don't know who that's right, that's half the equation. But now we're doing an autopsy on the back blurb for the west just trying to let people know this is how the real stuff goes down. But before that, let us hit the news. It's because they were going to bang time for news and I was presented by up work, where you can build a team that will build your business. Learn more up work dot com. All right, listen, Aaron Rodgers day be out of the news this offseason? Not so yeah, you know he He says he could definitely see the end coming to his career. We know he's back after redoing his deal with the Packers. Of course, this is also uh surprising that he lost his number one wide receiver Davante Adams. You wonder, you wonder if he would have had that information at hand. I guess we've heard that maybe he did, but I don't know what He still made the same decision about going back to Green Bay. Who knows. But we'll see how this season plays out. We'll see what Greg has to say about the Packers roster a little bit later. But Rogers is introspective right now, Mark, and he is thinking about a future that doesn't rely on football, because it's not he said about the game. The game to him still comes easily. But we've heard this so many times. It's everything around it, the preparation, the hours needed to be a truly great quarter reckon he is is the back to back m v P. Of course, Uh so, Rodgers, maybe this is it. We shall see. I think it's very much a I'm letting you know that next season could be the end. The one after that could be the end. The one after that could because he's what essentially three one year deals and this is not this is what Aaron Rodgers has been saying for a very long time, and I there was a period where every quarterback released the press release saying I'm gonna play until age forty five. Well, I don't think with Aaron Rodgers that that's the same d n A with it him that Tom Brady has his mind is when I start hearing this from any athlete. I agree that he can go be as proficient and talented as possible on the field, I think he can separate that. But mentally, when you're playing football and you start thinking about the fact that this is not what I want to do with my life anymore, on some level, I that would concern me from a starting quarterback. Not overly concerned. This is he's a compartmentalizer. He could he thinks differently. He's going to write his own original Dan. I know that it's not gonna be what people expect. But when this is in the head of your quarterback, the end is near. I mean, the guy turns forty next season, so he he'll turn thirty nine. He started he et on the bench for three years behind Farv. This is his eighteen season, but he hasn't started all those years, right and it's not. It's none of its surprising. You're right mark the year to year. Then again, he's set to make fifty nine million next year and in forty nine the year after that. You're really gonna you're gonna pass that up. You're gonna the way it's structured, I don't think he has to give back any guarantees, because that was one thing I was curious about when I heard this, Like, wait, isn't he guaranteed money into next year? No? Not really. I mean he he is, and he is, and he got the big signing bonus in the salary. He's just huge. But I'm with you, Mark, I don't think he's gonna be playing that late. And that would mean that this could be what if it has a bad season. I don't know if he's gonna want to be the sixth best quarterback in the league. But forty nine million and fifty nine million, what if they play off meltdown? It's like you have to go through the whole process all over again. I think it could be enough to convince him two ejector scene. That's and that's more or less um what he said in his comments. It's the other stuff that wears on you and makes you think about life after football. Tommy obviously set the bar so high with playing so many years, but I could definitely see the end coming. In other news, retirements, let's get caught up with some roster retirements. Alex mack Stefan too. It Romeo Crannell who after nearly forty seasons and coaching, he announced his retirement at age seventy four. But these are guys that had big years, Uh to it and Mac, they're walking away from the game with something left to give. Yeah to it nine, I mean was all pro type of player. In was one of the keys to that defense, and I think was one of the reasons why they were so bad last year. People kind of sleep on the fact that the Steelers defense was mediocre and to it had some off field stuff. Um, his brother had passed away, he had some physical stuff, so they're used to not playing with him since he wasn't there last year. But also that's a major loss, and they in the forty niners think that Mac is a major loss too, because they just spent the last three months trying to convince him to change his mind and he didn't, and so they have a couple of questions on their offensive line right now, right, because Mac has been nothing but consistent his entire career. Seven time Pro Bowler, He was a favorite of Shanahan, who was his offensive coordinator in Cleveland. In the year that Shanahan was there for one year, the offense got out to a great start. They were like seven and three, and then earlier on and then Alex Mack suffered a season ending injury. The line fell apart, the whole offense fell apart. A year later, Shanahan brought him to Atlanta and then tugged in to San Francisco. And if he's if now that he's gone, Jake Brendel is its center, it looks like and the interior of their line, if you go look at what PFF thinks of it is a lot less um glowing than a year ago. Right, And to it we can skip this part of projected started like his loss is a reminder that this defense on paper not that excited. Also, give Romeo what a career, not just the time with the Giants and certainly the Patriots, but even I know it was a lot of bad moments as the Brown's head coach. But here's just a fact for you. There have been third team coaches that have coached the brown since they returned. Only three of them have ever won ten games in the season, So I think it's a losing proposition. You're fighting up hill when you become the Browns coach and the Gromeo Cornal what Maybe he didn't do that bad a job, so he got so they had this sort of magical ten and six campaign with Derek Anderson at quarterback, a deal with the Devil type of scenario where he was essentially like a raging upscale Pro bowler for one season. They gave Romeo Cornell a big contact contract extension. In the next year, I think they went four and twelve and didn't win another more than five games for another six seasons. So you're right it was an outlier, but I think he might have been in there are others out there. The nicest coach that we've ever It's like one of the nicest men and just like never really you saw him get like angry or unflappable at anyone. Maybe BB's favorite Belichick's favorite. If I had to guess who was like his favorite assistant in all of these years, my guests would be Romeo that those hugs that they would have at the end of you could ask Bill Belichick on Thursday when he joins us on the show just kidding that will never happen. Uh NFL Networks Tom Pella Sera reports that the forts, well, have we ever asked? We have not extended an in fight, and how about we have something? I think owners meetings we because we kind of the spread um let's and try to get everyone and see who says yes. I think we might have asked, but that's like speed dating. We have to make it special. We have to button up the bell Check letters. Sure. Check out Mark Sessler's long form when he was a boy writing to Bellichick and he got a letter back. We got a button that up. We got Greg and the crush that he's had on Bellichick all these years. I obviously have a lot of respect for Bill Bellichick despite some of the agon he's brought to my life. Bill Belichick, let's get him on the show. Why don't we set that a goal now that we are staying here at the NFL, to get Bill bell Check on the show before the end. Like Sean Kelly behind the guys just gave me a very like earnest thumbs up, like, no problem, working on it. Way to go, boss, I'll mind. Do you remember me I asked you a question. I asked you a question about Antonio Pierce at the two thousand and seven my first my first Super Bowl. It was a big deal to me at the time. Was like, oh, really, I'll really get a good answer asking about the other anyway, Jimmy G. Jimmy G. What's up with Jimmy G? NFL Networks Tom Palicero reports that the forty Niners have excused Jimmy Garoppolo from the team's mandatory minicamp. He is recovering, of course, from off season offseason shoulder surgery. He was not trade did by the forty Niners obviously to this point, and now you wonder where he is in the team's pecking order with Trey Lance ready and waiting or so it seems. So. Anyway, we don't know if Jimmy G's gonna be with the Niners, but he won't be practicing with him at least until at the very earliest training camp. It borders for me on a non story because like there's the the goal has to be to shop him at some point in camp, probably when when disaster strikes another team and he looks more like a favorable option. Why even have him in the building and receive as much as a paper cut. It's gonna be dangerous though. I'm with you, though, I think there are some stories that it's like, I just want to enter it for the record in the news. Maybe there's nothing to say, but it's you've got to enter it for the record, Dan, that's important to have it on record and for posterity. Also, I kind of missed this. I don't know, maybe I was out and you guys talked about it. But speaking at O T A S in the last week and make Kyle Shanahan said of Garoppolo, X, I expect it sometime he'll be traded, but it's not a guarantee. It went on hold when the surgery happened. So I mean, if the coach is saying he's expecting it to happen, they probably feel pretty confident it will happen. But also the door is open, and then again they've probably had conversations that have led them to be I think that like he is sick of being the nice guy, which makes sense. Well, he's he's himself said that it's been a trying journey as as nice as he's been about it. UM. In Deshaun Watson News, another woman has filed a civil lawsuit against Watson, raising the number of women who have accused the Browns quarterback of inappropriate sexual conduct to twenty four. Twenty four women now and Deshaun Watson and his legal representations say that all twenty four are lying and that legal representation, UM greg continues to make an ass of itself when they go on the radio and really anytime they open their mouth. Uh. And another example that happened during an interview earlier this week or late last week, Yeah with our friend Seth Payne. It was on his show Houston and Yeah, Rusty Harden made the case um that happy endings, in his words, are not a crime. Uh if money was not paid extra for him. This is Shaun Watson's legal representation is supposed to be helping them out pointing that out. And then as part of that exact quote said later, doing something or saying something or being a way that makes you uncomfortable is not a crime. First of all, we're not. It's not criminal conduct anymore. That's what we're talking about, because these are civil allegations. But number two, these statements were so dumb to put out there, um, not just from a pr angle, but from a legal angle, that they are quoted directly in this um complaints. So this is lawyer work, right. So the twenty three and four cases have happened since we've last talked about at least there was also and this one now, the one refers exactly to that because it gets to the idea that Watson is okay making these women feel uncomfortable. The allegations also include, um that he you know, he took out his penis and he he ejaculated on or without permission, which is uncomfortable here. But that's like what it is in more than a few of these. And like we know that the lawyer and the agent, um, don't you know, they're not concerned with the women. Um. But I think there's a case to be made for they're not really looking out for Deshaun Watson's best interest either here because they could have stopped all of this. Last October there was a moment there where reported according to Mike Florio, the women were willing to accept a hundred thousand dollars for this all to go away last October was part of the doll and they could have ended it right then, and the ca us that they have now because the price has certainly gone up. I think in the meantime and the costa Watson and the Browns in his life and everything in the meantime also shows he's not getting good advice, among other things. Not that it's not all his fault. I mean, Rusty Harden, it's not been an attorney for four weeks, like he should know. The number one rule is that probably your client is gonna go say stuff that requires damage control. Point to Shaun Watson's press conference with the Browns where everything that came out of his mouth felt like he was seeing this in a completely different way and accountable for none of it. And so Rusty Harden, if anything, say nothing. I'm not arguing that, like they look completely like buffoons in this whole situation, but at this point I think it expedites the NFL having to come in with what we expedites, just do something. The lawyers did say that he finished four different interviews with the NFL and that's over now. How about his still being discussed. We should know. And Rusty Harden said on the I Believe the same interview, there's a good possibility the NFL will make a decision on Watson's status that he won't like, meaning likely a suspension is coming hard and also added he doesn't expect these two new lawsuits to change the NFL's timeline. All right, okay, well we'll see, but it is now dragging almost into uh as we head into mid June. June, almost no word from the NFL on punishment for Deshaun Watson. So that's where that story is at. And that, my friends, was News and Notes presented by upwork, the world's work marketplace. Learn more at upwork dot com. That was a bulging, dramatic pause just with triplets. Greg's wording there, he said words that have never been uttered on this podcast, and it's knocked me for a leap, and I'm it's understandable, kind of knock me, knock me aside. There Now, I'm back up. All right, let's take a break and then get to Projected Starters Autopsy Projected Starters. The series has done. Greg did the work and the work was good. It was good work. Mark. It's a great read. It's eight great reads. It's a man that clearly has his finger on the pulse. But now there is no more longer a pulse on the exercise. It's on a slate, slap slab, slab. Sitting there on a slab, we're getting out our scalbels, putting on our gloves, putting our scrub scrubbing in. Do you have to do that hand washing doctor thing before surgery? If it's autopsy, it's a dead internet. If it's a dead internet article. That's where we rested on this. I don't know if you need to wash her, but I think it's in a real opposite. I think being sterile and clean, and yes, you should probably wash your hands. Let's sterilize, all right, Mark and I are gonna sterilize now one moment. All right, we're back, We're fully sterilized, feeling pure. How do we get another contract? I don't know. Yeah, here we are right now. I no idea. I didn't want to do my idea for this segment. What was your idea? It was like, what was it? It was me throwing out the takes and you you judging it on one to contrarian. But you had this vision of the Yeah, I want I want to see where this goes. The shouldn't be close to an autopsy procedure, just the trays of food that you're eating off of, Like it sounds unrighteous. Um, here we go. I like that. In fact, let's fold that into it. It's part of the overall conversation. What is it contrarian? Or it was like I missed that text entirely, so you were You actually also responded to Greg's texts and said, I think that's a really good idea. There's a lot there. And then it was just people are learning. This is an autopsy of how the show has made. I missed it. That's listen. You gotta take ownership. Sometimes. Henry sent a very nice tweet out and he's like, you, guys, you don't even know the the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes to make around the NFL what it is, and this is it right here, these texts takes a lot of work at least. Um, all right, let's get into it. Uh, it's on the slab. It's time to dig in, and I'll start here. Greg. Okay, you go through all these rosters and when you see the teams, when you're writing these up the teams that had the really strong roster that are super Bowl content. On the teams at the very top of this exercise in terms of loaded teams, quote unquote, what was the biggest flaw on an otherwise really strong roster, Like, what was one that really stood out to you was like, oh wow, okay, uh, this could undermine a potential champion. I feel like with more than not, it's offensive lines. I would say the Bills offensive line. I like love the Bills in general. How can you not? And if you look at their offensive line, they were mediocre last year, I would say, and they kind of replaced guys with run first type of players. So could Josh Allen be under a lot of pressure here? Uh? Spencer Brown, Uh, Roger Staffolds who didn't have the best season for the Titans last year. Gravers Titans, Like, you know, they they played this guy, Ryan Bates, who's a restricted free agent. That's one that immediately comes to mind. Certainly the Packers pass catchers is but that's an obvious one, right, But I thought you kind of thought maybe that wouldn't be too too much of an issue, you know, because I think the rest of the team is is great. I would say the Broncos are similar in the offensive I feel like there was a couple of teams like that where the Broncos offensive line can ruin everything. The offensive line could be an issue for some of these teams. How about you mark throughout something so as you go through thirty two of these and you know, obviously it's not like you're just meeting these teams for the first minute when you do it. But was there one team where your impression of who they are what they are right now changed the most that you maybe learned about the most, or maybe alter the way you feel about them. I felt like the Cardinals pop up as a team that after I was over, it was like this team could win five games, Like what what when you look at the Cardinals? What do you look at and say, like, that's what we're good at? Like, what is our big asset here? Now? Maybe it's when DeAndre Hopkins returns, it's Kyler Murray and Brown and Hopkins and or and you have this vision of that all works in a passing game. I guess that's it. But I don't know. The offensive line on paper not getting me excited very thin. I think they overachieved in the secondary, but for the most part, I'm not in love with that group. They have these two linebackers they drafted in the first round, uh Zaven Collins and Isaiah Isaiah Simmons, who's kind of underperformed. Their defensive line, and their pass resh looks very thin, and you look at the rest of that division and you think about the coaching and the strife that's going on, and I felt much different about them, like worse. There were certain teams that I probably felt better. Toots would be one. So would you would you classify the Cardinals as like a a bad surprise where you went that would be a bad surprise. Yeah, what about a good surprise? The team where you're going through the roster. You didn't think much about them, and then all of a sudden, it's like, WHOA, what do we got cooking here? I thought I'd be more down on the Colts than I am, and now I'm sort of convinced. Their pass rush, for instance, and their defense in general. They lost ebra Flos, the defensive coordinator, but I think replacing um who was Xavier Rhodes with Stephan Gilmour is good at cornerback and then you look at that pass rush Quity Pay who I liked in his second year, and then Buckner and adding in gock Way and they have um, the guy coming off a torn a c l slipping in my mind in his second year, Like, I like their defense a lot. And then I kind of looked at the rest of the group and I'm thinking, like, Okay, I'm back on board, back on board with the Colts. The Bengals were another one, not that I should be surprised by them, but I would say like, yeah, I was pleasantly surprised in a good way. The Saints, Like the more I looked at him, I'm like, I think people are a little too down in the Saints. Everyone is jumping on the Lions bandwagon. Is the concept of a fun team that could, you know, suddenly win some games in a pretty shoddy division. Do you buy into the Lions after this project or do you say no, Oh, I'm totally in on the Lions. I think, what does it mean? What does that mean? Like just being a fun, exciting team, Like I had these things written down that we're like maybe, um, because I didn't know what we're gonna do here totally that were maybe the hot takes that you guys. I mean, there are some of these that I've already and one Yeah, I don't even know how that makes sense. We're both medical examiners. We may have different numbers. One of them was like, okay, everyone's in on the Cults. The Lions offensive line, great offensive line, looks like a top five offensive one. How about the Lions defensive line might be a top five to ten defensive line. You're cooking with gas here that both of these lines could be among the very best in the league. Here's what you're working with, Aidan Hutchinson added to a group that already had Romeo Acquara, Charles Davis is coming off I mean, Charles Harris coming off a career year. You have these two young defensive tackles who they're hoping to develop. Own was own Rozarique. You have Romeo our Car's brother. You have a Lee McNeil. You've got a lot of players. I didn't even mention Michael Brocker's they drafted Josh Pascal. I like the teams that's got like seven or eight guys where their backups at like some teams starters is contraryan ten or? Is it one hundred in this exercise. I don't know. Oh, I thought it was a ten. That was just I just didn't want to come in with something. If we're going to a scale one, I'm going to give that a four because I think you backed up. I agree with the offensive line and if it's not a wild hot take from out of space, with the facts that you the defensive line would be the top ten part you need. You need these things to click, obviously, like Aidan Hutcheson has to hit the ground running, Joshua Pascal, you need that guy to hit the round running ground running. You get Um Levi a newsic car. Yeah, that's a tough one. Uh. He's the second year pro, so you need these guys to get him Mabel who they drafted high last year, both of them. And we're like, fine, I don't know if that you can like be totally on board that they're gonna be people like Aaron Glenn too. He is a guy seen as an on the rise defensive coordinator. UM could put himself and if they take the leap, he will be a hot name on the head coach market UM next year. Aaron Glenn, all right, I will give that a five. You know, I think that was and that's good. I think that's kind of where that means. It's it's a reason to take that wasn't one of my higher rank but they tried to rank like if I only had time for a few that did say I have to say, you said that that they could be special in the right up, which, all right, I'm gonna move it. But that's a contrarian I'm gonna six. I'm gonna put it six. It's good though, it's Lyons pop is tryon right now, right, it's not it's not contrarian. Um. How about Khalil Mack is the third biggest free agent addition to the third most important three free agent addition to the Chargers defense. To me, where you look where they struggled a year ago. J C. Jackson, I think is gonna have a bigger impact. And then you've got Sebastian Joseph Day, who's really fixing a position that they didn't that they needed more. They also added Austin Johnson, who's like a run stopper, so that kind of combining those two. Max replacing a guy who was pretty good in the first place, Nuosu who had who had a nice impact and like that team. Maybe I'm ranting too much, but that that team has a lot of questions on their defense. There's a lot of talent that they got to produce it didn't produce last I like this one. I'm gonna give this a six and a half because if you get the version of Khalil Mac where you're not getting what you had a couple of years ago, uh, then it isn't a massive upgrade from what they had. I do think though, because he knows he knows the system, he knows Brandon Staley really well, and you've got but what it could do is help Bosa in so many ways if he comes in and plays like the good version of Khalil Max. But I still think that's a spicy take six points. I think it's it's almost like the contrarian thing is that maybe that was the wrong way to look at it, but maybe it's like a spicy meatball. Like I think that's pretty spicy meatball. Um. I put that in a seven and a half because I think people like to gravitate towards who's the veteran name same thing up in Buffalo, von Miller. He's going to be the guy that puts him over the top. Well, this is the von Miller that showed up in the playoffs. Yes, it was the von Miller that is another year older. And maybe in decline they're gonna need other guys are gonna end up being more important. But I like that one. We're flying. Let's keep rolling. Greg, give us an Now, I'm just doing these like this. Okay. I wish you guys would have flagged this before this morning. We should do something like that, I mean did if you read the thread, he looks very much like you looked at Greg's suggestion in response to suggestion, because you're a nice guy when in general, when you want a disregard to an idea, you probably just will ignore it. And we it was also, by the way, Sunday for us. You know, we were having our own Sunday, so it was like it on Sunday. This morning was maybe you're right, I don't even remember. I mean, Kevin dangers and was doing it Sunday if he doesn't, but hey, I was. I was the assistant coach the season finale for the Dodgers. The l A Dodgers Walker Rosen was This was this only text thread that also has Graver on it. No, this was this was, this was this morning was just us doing who cares? All right, here's um, here's one. Josh McDaniels retaining, that's fun. Mike McDaniel retains, it's like that's fun or it sounds good, like no matter what the idea is, that's true. Well, that's It's kind of why I wanted to bring this whole thing up because I think our listeners will enjoy it. Was. I have no memory of what's occurred in the past. I'm go ahead, all right, here's another one. Mike McDaniel, Dolphins coach, retaining defensive coordinator Josh Boyer top top five sneaky big moves of the off season that no one's talking about. I flat out agree with you, because the other thing is you get a new scheme, ten ten new players. The defense was good. I don't know if it's a spicy people, but you look at that defense. Every year. I do this exercise every year. I think this team doesn't really look this roster doesn't really look that good. And then I'm more down on the Dolphins than I should be. And then Flora's and Boyer because you gotta give Boyer some credit. He was a coordinated somehow make the parts bigger than the Some of their parts are are bigger. And if you look at this defense, it's mostly the same guys they brought back, uh, similar guys. They added some young talent. They kept the same coordinator knew first time Howard coached. That's a little unorthodox. It actually, I think shows a little self confidence that this is a smart thing. Just keep this together, because they always end up performing better than you think on paper. I look at them, they're like, okay, you know what you never see And it would be the next level of like removing ego from all of this and just truly wanting this team to thrive. What if Vic Fonio had said, look at I'm cool, stay as your defensive coordinator and let hack it do the same thing. I know that just never happens, but in this case, I'm with you. I thought. McDaniel basically said, let's lean on our strength, take out all the things that we learned after the firing. And of course the lawsuit that's going on right now involving Brian Flores and the Dolphins. Uh, just what he was able to bring to that team um uh him leaving the door, and he's a defensive minded coach. It will be interesting to see if they are able to continue to thrive with him gone. I like trying to keep the same system though, and the same I should say, like their front seven could be kind of fun. Jalen Phillips. They got Van Ginkle and Melvin Ingram are there kind of ed dressers. You have ag but you have Wilkins Like that's pretty good, but the secondary could be special. Davian Howard again back Byron Jones, great number two, and then Javon Holland who really flashed as a rookie safety, and then they like Brandon Like, that's four guys who you think could be difference makers in the same second, saying anything critical about Miami because I feel like the last couple of shows I've brought up negative things about them. Certainly there's a path here where the defense plays well to it takes the next step, and this is an eleven. The defense has been under the radar, that's sort I was like, what happened we talked about yet this offseason. Here I know someone who's been very critical of him, and we're about to talk to him. In a few minutes, and I would like to ask him a question. He was at Dolphins good last week. My question, alright, Greggy, give us another one. Okay, the Cowboys defense. I kind of forgot how good the Cowboys defense was most of the last year. Do you guys remember that they were number two and defense and it ended in very Cowboys fashion. I start of forgot about that after a disastrous year of the prior, right, and I was going into this thinking like, it's been a really bad off season for them. You know, they lost Freddy Gregory two on defense and secondary. There's still some good pieces here. But here's the take, which is that their defense comes down to Neville Gallimore and Osa Diggi Zua making a big leap, and those two guys are capable of making a big leap. If those two guys make a big leaf both defensive tackles, they could be right back there as one of the best defenses in the league. You again, here's that word, that s word. You said they could be special. You wrote um de Marcus Lawrence and Michael Parsons there and the Randy Gregory absence you don't see as a killer for them. Potentially, I mean, he's how many useful periods of football has Randy ever given you? I can go find them. There was about three hundreds of four hundred snaps at once. It happened in two thousands seventeen, and then it happened for a stretch last year. Then he got hurt and he came back and he wasn't really the same at the end of the year. He's never played more than five I think that loss has been overstated. And they have these two young guys who I like, O DIGGI Zoo look great last year. Gallimore I thought was great as a rookie. You didn't see it as much. So you have those two guys. You have Lawrence and and Parsons maybe the best duo in the league. You brought in Dante Fowler, you got Doris Armstrong who has done some things. It's like that's a great group. And on paper, the rest of the defense like doesn't get me jazz. But they they're all pretty young, and they were all there last year when it was going so well. Ell, so I can't like get to down I had I had in my notes. I had something about the Cowboys I wanted to discuss because I'm glad you hit on it because I'm given this an eight out of ten in terms of spicy meatball, because there's been so much critical talk of the Cowboys uh this spring uh that I feel like it's going too much the other way. Where you look at this roster, it's like, Okay, yes, maybe the wide receiver group isn't as good as it used to be, maybe the offensive line is long in the tooth now, but there is certainly a path where this team again wins that division that that that's a double digit win team. I think we assume this is gonna be a down cycle year for Dallas because that just feels the way it's probably where the land, but the pieces are there to be good well. I think also like the the division they're in could inflate you to extra wins to get into a wild card if they don't manage to knock out Philly and that thing. But dan Quinn made this all work. It's the same system, and I'm with you. I I don't think the defense needs to have a bigger fall off. I think that the perception around Dallas was the way they mishandled and have mispaid certain players on offense. I had a lot to do with this. It's mostly the offense, and and I'm pretty basic with my concerns there, and I think there are concerns, but the defense I kind of forgot like that. You look at the corner cornerbacks and yeah, Trevon Diggs picked off a lot of passes, but you're not like that excited. But they performed pretty well. Malee Cooker and j Ron Curs where their safety is not big names, but they played quite well last year. Um yes, and you know Zeke Elliott, you knowed here this is most likely his final season in Dallas, and I don't maybe he's not as explosive as he once was. But there's a chicken and egg situation here because the offensive line isn't as good as it once So it's either so you do you take him maybe lost a step the offensive line is taking a step back. That's become a very ordinary running game on some levels. But maybe he also seed some playing time. Um as the maybe it becomes more of a tandem approach. Straight up, at this point, uh In should game with Tony Pollard. Alright, anything else, Gregg, All right, let's just do some rap rapid uh takes here. I'm just gonna throw out a bunch of maybe you can you can pick which is the spy and I go back and forth and we just give a number after Okay, I was gonna say the spiciest meatball of the group, but okay, we can do that. We'll go rapid by Gary. Rashan Gary all pro? Can I just say one last thing? Yeah, I'm sorry again about the text, Stepho. That was okay. I don't think that we just blame you. I can understand how it happened. I also thought it happened yesterday. It was this morning. So all right there, you gotta start Rashan Gary All Pro season coming eight point five. That's a spicy meat ball as an eight and a half, okay, George Carl loftus rookie pass rusher, the key to the Chiefs defense. Let me these are spicy. Now we're getting somewhere. That's a nine, the key one of the keys. Do you want to give a little nug along with these? It's like press rush looks like a big problem if he does not deliver. And uh pff loves this Like I like this type of player. He reminds me a little bit of a Marcus Davenport Jenevan Clowney type. So I think he's gonna do well. Maybe not superstar, but do well. But they really need him otherwise. I don't know. Man. This is what Andy Reid had to say about him. He goes one hundred miles an hour walk through everything. We had to slow him down. He's relentless. He's had glowing reports and shorts. The Broncos if you added up the skill position players and pass rushers, uh, they have the most quality players in the league at those spots. Say that categories against skill position players and pass rushers, Like, if you're adding up who has the most of both of those combined quality? Just you just sort of slammed Randy Gregory. But yeah, but like I'm saying, like quality players. I'm not saying top five guys, but like quality players. And then that team went and got a potential Hall of Fame quarterback seven point eight because I think I do. I do feel like we thought the Broncos were ready to go minus quarterbacks, like like they have about like six pass rushers and that you know, most teams that I really want to see Jerry Judy take a big leap this year. We all see it as a possibility. What was that Broncos country, Let's riot, that's one of the rushes um egos backups on the lines better than a lot of starters. We know you like that. And then finally, this is just more of a statement. I'm looking forward to watching the New York Giants play offensive football. You know what I let me say, And that's that's a good from you. That's a ten after what happened in two and again in don't believe me, but it's just the truth. Uh I saw that. It definitely caught my I that you were speaking somewhat positively. And there is I feel like the Candarius Tony um army out there, Norris, but I know that's probably the other person. I guess he would be the X factor because they kind of they could use someone that kind of breaks free. And you made the good point like who's like the outside threat in that group of Sterling Shepherd, uh wandall Robinson and Cadarius Tony, Like how does that break down? And does Daniel Jones have the ability to make the most of these guys to step up? Like the first season in half a decade, you don't lose like combined snaps by potential starters on your offense. Well, that's that's out of their control. Unless you want to get a strength and conditioning coach on the show next week. No I did, I did not wish to What would he tell us? All? I thought you were saying there were injuries. Those guys are good. I am suggesting that a Health Giants team would have been watchable in years past to some degree. That could be this guy gets it a good app likes like um, like second long p s a s that just you know, play before you watch a real video. I think if you're starting this new feed, you want to think like what can get the most attention in downloads? And I think going through season by season old Giants rosters and seeing what injury invests they had, that could be it. Like the number one tenant of this show, news wise, was always been looking forward, So it would be a massive pivot from what's made this successful. Um yeah, so stay tuned. This guy gets it with Mark Sessler also still still potentially in the mix, not in the mix, still in the mix, not in the mix. I'm with myself. Also, that was more that was a spot for a I'm annoyed now drop grave digger, just so you know I'm annoyed. Now there you go. All right, good job. Check out nfl dot com slash Projected Starters, always a great read and a good way to bone up gross. Let's take a break and then get to Mr Mike west Off. Welcome back. Our guest today is one of my all time favorites on the sidelines in the NFL. Great Run is the Jet special team's coach from two thousand one to two thousand and twelve. But he has a thirty two year career. Uh He now retired with the Cults, Dolphins, Jets, and Saints. Bethel Park p a native, and now he's got a new book out called Figure it Out My thirty two year journey while revolutionizing pro football special teams. It's Mike west Off. Welcome to around the NFL. Mr west Off, Well, thanks, guys, no happy to be here. This is let's start with the let's start with the subhead of the book, because we love you for your candor and you've always been a guy that's spoke in your mind. And and this is what the kids would call a flex when you say my thirty two year journey while revolutionizing pro football special teams? Yes, what do you think you did? What did you bring? I know this is kind of a broad question, but this is where where we can start. What was it that you brought that was different from what way special teams were before? You kind of establish yourself and made yourself, um, such a star in that realm. Okay, I'll give you two answers to it. First of all, I had nothing to do with writing that. Just disown it. You know you did it, you revolutionized And he agrees. You know that's written by that that's written by the publisher. As he went through and his way, he looked at what happened. That's so I'm okay with it. What the question is, what did I have to do with it? Pretty much everything? Oh I love it? What the what does that mean? Though? Like? What did you what do you think you see? What's the lasting impact? Okay, I'll give it to you. When I first started in the job in two with Frank Bush, I was hired to Frank and it's a great score egg and you have to read that one. But I was the frank head jobs available. He look he needed a strength coach. The guy that might help with special teams. Need a tight ends vote all right, assistant offensive line coach, someone to help them. He said, I'm not sure how to do this. I said, I'll do them all. Get them all to me. Now. I didn't do any of them very well, I'll tell you the truth, but I said them all. So I started. And then we were in our first year and we played two games and went on the players around Drke. I was out for a jog one day and came across Frank and he said, come on, walk with me. I want to talk to you. He said, I'm gonna fire special teams coach. He said, Mike, he's terrible. I said, don't fire him. He's helping the defense. I'll take it. Let me take it over. Well, yeah, good news, My thanks a lot. I knew nothing. I didn't know a thing about special teams. What I realized in a hurry he gave me a notebook. No book should have come with the bounds, and it was terrible. So I started this and what I found out in a hurry was that there were no special teams coordinators then there just it was divided up among the staff. There was very little, if any creativity and that very little. It was just very not It was not innovative, and there was also almost no regulation, so you can try everything. So what I did I called the philosophy. I wanted to have a coverage team emulate a defense, and I wanted to blitz. My defense was gonna blitz. So I went to budget person, one of the great defensive coordinators in NFL history. I said, but take me through the perimeters of blitzing. I patterned my pickoff coverage after that, and I believe anybody would tell you that was coverage to ever go against, which we were really going and presented a problem. Then as an offensive coach, I thought, well, okay, what am I going to pick off return? What's this to be like? Well, I wanted it to be a power off tackle running play, so I double team and I tracked my kickout was away. I learned how it cut the backside off, just like offensive line would have to do, and I patterned it after that, and we broke pretty much most of the records, so you know, it worked. And that's how I developed myself as a special team's coach and a coordinator. But it's on I came a a at the right place, in the right time. I hoped it was part of it. I think I I think I had a part thanking it to a pinnacle. It has since, because of rule changes, etcetera, become you know, it's gradually deleted on a little bit. You know, have the number of plays, so things are vastly different. And but I believed I was part of that rise. Also, there were a great number of other coaches that jumped right in with us, and we took it to a point of real prominence. And it was fun to be a part of. And that's what I wrote about Coach. I've got to ask you something because you know, as we researched and looked at this book and some of the the quotes coming out of it and some of the stuff that you wrote, I mean, it's obviously very rich with your time with the New York Jets. You talk about Tim Tebow in a very pointed way. You've got some stuff on Eric Manginie, Rex Ryan, the whole caboose. But I read that you had to utilize your girlfriend as what you called a dial down instructor because some of your takes, some of your anecdotes were a little too hot for the public. Is that true? That's correct. Let's bring them out now, Mike, if you could, no, I won't do that, would read. I would read parts to her almost every night, and you know, and sometimes she would say, you know, Mike, that down a little bit. And for the most part, I actually did help me with that because I'm not afraid. I'm not trying to be overcritical, and I tried to be very fair. I mean some of the things, don't you know, some of the things that a little bitness misunderstood, Like with Tim Tebow. I'll give you real quickly. Um, Tim Tebow is what he is, you know he was. He's a marginal quarterback at past He's a Heisman Trophy winner that deserves to win it. In my opinion, he managed what he had exceptionally well. Now, when we signed Tim Tebow, it was under the premise that he would be a multitalented guy to play a number of positions and be like a wildcat quarterback. He was gonna play for me on my put team because I could do all the faced with them. I'm the only one that upheld that part of the bargain. I used him, and he did a great job. With me, Tim Tebow was not part of the problem. Tebow is what he is. Is he a starting quarterback in the halfl I don't please so hey. Bill Belichick had the same opinion, asked him, you don't believe me because he did the same thing. They let him go. But that was the reality of the situation, and we never used an offense. So in my opinion, that was very, very much much used and the Tebow was only part of that equition. That always felt to me, Mike as as a Jets fan, um an example of one hand not washing the other. Where you knew ownership perhaps and certain figures in the organization, Oh let's get this kid in the building will be the story of the league. And then the coaching staff. For the most part, you had a defined role for him that you used. I remember him being the punt protector. In that role throughout the season, it became pretty apparent that he didn't really have a role on that offense, and that kind of that reminded me of when I think about that era of Jets football when things really started to snowball in the wrong direction and the and the team really went downhill in a hurry. I always think of that time with Uh with Tebow. I'm I'm also curious your your career ended in two thousand after the two thousand eighteen season, Mike Uh, the final game I guess that you coached Saints Rams NFC title game, a game that you've UH said before was the toughest loss of your long career, and that, of course was the Nickel Robie Coleman game between the Saints and Rams. Was it difficult to go out on that in that matter? And was there a part of you that said, I can't go out with a game that painful when you had a super Bowl window there? Take us through that a little bit. I didn't see it that way. It was time for me to go. I coached thirty two years. I was a pretty good football we had taken that team, which I'm correcting that assessment Drew was drewid had had a career. Was love Wing just a tiny bit something? A great player? I think Sean Payton is an absolute excellent football coach. As I wrote about my book, He's the best on the field teacher I ever saw. Trust me. I used to sit there on Thursday and watch him design to play. Seen the draft chain thing on Sunday exact. That's how felt, that's how delivered he is in his teaching. So that for me was, you know, I felt that team. I felt the year before that we could have fought when we had the Minnesota miracles, they beat us. This was a good football team that had fought its way. Nothing needed to go to the Super Bowl, and I didn't get that chance. I was disappointed. For me personally, it was one of the I felt that they had a real weapon on their cut team, and when they ran face, they were very good at it. I researched it. I went back and studied everything they did all the way into St. Louis. I think I came up with my individual game plan that I've ever designed. I had them nailed. I had five defensive linemen. Every time they were gonna up the ball, we were in a space about a seven mante front. We were gonna double the wide guy, a flyer or gunner as you call him, to our right side where he or enter the front of the ball, to our left side, where he liked to throw a space a corner and moved it inside, and I packed him off five yards just a back pedal, and if they did throw the faith. You know he could have packed it because if you throw out a put formation to the wide receiver, there's no passive the fair patalty. And I practiced it until he breathwater throw the ball. I was totally prepared for it. I made a mistake. I made a mistake with that corner. I took a corner who was really a pro active player. He's the guy that could fly in the direction, and I put him in a reactive position. When I look back now, they ran a faith we all know coming. We're all screaming faith, faith, faith. But as this corner went back, as he did a hundred times in practice, now, when he planned to go after the wide guy achiever, he turned his back. He made a mistake. I should have plucked were killed. It always was only three points, but the way the game that was tough for me. I'm the one who made it, and I did that. Whether I had one of the best players I ever designed, I felt was brilliant. I love that taking us behind, because yeah, that was kind of a forgotten play. I'm totally with you. I think that two thousand seventeen to nineteen Saints team. Unfortunately for Saints fan's I think it's going to go down as one of the best teams to ever not win a Super Bowl, that that little three year kind of late breeze stretch. But the way you're talking about, like your matchup with Bones Fossil, the Rams coordinator at that time, of special teams, it gets to what you were talking about and how you revolutionize the sport, and that's what football is kind of all about, is like specialization. That's why Bill Belichick always tries to talk about Paul Brown as the guy who changed the game more than anyone because he made it more specialized. And you are kind of part of at evolution of the game making it more specialized. Drilling down, you are someone who coached against Bill Belichick for most of your career. A lot of your career. You were with Miami for fifteen years, and he was in New England for part of that as as a coordinator, and and then certainly when you were with the Jets and everything, And I know he has a big love for special teams and he approaches it differently. How are those matchups to you? How were you guys like different as special teams minds and what kind of stands out to you about your battles with Belichick over the years. He was much more conservative than I was. He was not. He was gonna make every effort to not let that part of the game beat him. He knew, he knew he had the big advantage on offense with Tom Brady. He was gonna make sure that I didn't do much against I feel with you, if you added up touch each other, I come out way ahead. I got that. But he's tough to be because he's smart, and you know, you know, he's very disciplined, and a lot of times I've been doing all types of shifting things on our being safe. Safe the only reason I was going. But I didn't have a punter while I was bedroom. I was just trying to level the playing field and it weren't. It helped me out, so we were able to get him a few times to do some things against them. But I have tremendous respect as to how he handleson coaches the game. They were very well coached football team. I looked going against them because it was a challenge, but a quiet flex there. You wiped the floor with him. You just said, you know you basically you got your points in there against him. I like it. I got to coach. I gotta ask you another one, Like, so you're I know you're comfortable retiring, but you're You were just at Dolphins O T A s recently and a lot of people are high on the Dolphins because they think Mike McDaniels, you know, a boy genius ready to unleash. But you were not very impressed, um from comments I read about what you saw from the offense the day you were there. No, I wasn't. Now, don't get me wrong. You know we're we're talking to some mini camp. They they they they scheduled l t s and there mini camps, so so mini CAAP practice. Um. I know that it's early. I know that they don't have their game plan in for their opening day. I totally understand that. But what I also know is that game plan that I wants being executed should be opening first the second day of mini camps. I want to see the mini camp game plan executed. I've been on the field in my career with some pretty good quarterbacks. Don't forget Ca Marino, you know, uh, Drew Breeze, Drett Fard, you know, um Dad Pennington when he was pretty dug one good Vinnie Testaverdie. So I've been on the field for a lot of very good offensive practices. In my opinion, I saw very little which resembled anything of a good offensive practice. I just can't see it. And now, is it gonna come later? Sure it can, Sure it can. But I didn't see it. And that's what was disappointing. So I want to see opening game performance. No I don't, but I don't want to see what I saw. I was very disappointed that that that that that was empretter than what I thought it would be better than that. I wass well that earlier in the show we had some positive thoughts about the Dolphins roster. Now there's a little yin and yang in there, Dolphins says, can look ahead and know there's a lot of football to be played between now and September. All right, Mike, did you last thing? I have to ask because I'm a big parcels guy, and the part in your book kind of broke my heart a little bit, because, um, I remember seeing you at you know, Hofstra with Bill and the situation that happened with you going down to Miami with your friend Uh to watch practice and then you came back with the Jets. Uh and Parcels he sends the letter to the league complaining about you being there even though you're under contract with the Jets. All sloppy, and I think you called it in the book, know what I call it? You called it a chicken letter that Parcels wrote. Um, have you guys spoken since that happened? Or did that end the relationship? And ended at the second he did it? And I had a good relationship with him. I was I always looked at him as kind of a big brother. And when I went over there, I was wrong because I was still under contract. Now I did, I was totally gone from the Jets, and they already knew coach. I wasn't in the press guy. But I went over because after the surgery worked so well, I knew I could now come back to the coach. So all of a sudden, way a minute, I don't look through it, card, I'm coming back. So I went and visited some camps, and I went over and visited with Bill. He and I sat in the golf cart the entire day, we ate lunch together. I wrote him a thank you letter. I talked to his head coach about what I saw in practice, had a great and then all of a sudden, the Jets signed Brett part Then they pressured me to come back. They want me to come back. I didn't want to go. They offered me a ton of money. They turned it down. Now, when I went to visit them, I was wrong, not Bill. I was wrong because I you really can't go to a pamp if you're under contract. He didn't know that, but I didn't know it either. I've never done it. I just, you know, the one thing I didn't do, So I didn't go over there to cheat. For him to write a letter like that was totally inappropriate, and so I blew up. Now, I coached the game. But if I don't coach the game, then it looks like I did go over there to eat, and it was you want to college. I could push the letter, then you wouldn't have any argument because you'd know. But I didn't do that. One chicken was enough. That's why I let go with that. And that's exactly how I felt. I've never talked him. If I ever really talked to him, and it wouldn't be even the beginnings of a pleasant conversation that passionate football man. Did your girlfriend convinced you not to put the letter in the book? No, I know she had nothing to do with you. Never show it. Mike, thank you so much for your time. This is gonna be a great summer read on the beach, whether you're on the Jersey shore or wherever. You can get the book right now. Figure it out at Mascot books dot com right now, and then everywhere else Amazon and anywhere else that carries books. July twelve, Mike west Off, thank you so much for joining us, and good luck and enjoy retirement. You certainly earned it a lot of fun talking to you today. Okay, gosh, thank you too. Enjoys there he goes, um I I love that man. Uh he was he always spoke his mind and you hear it there. Kind of reminded me of my dad on certain topics. When my dad Keith gets starts to get fired up talking about something that has annoyed him or someone that upsets him. You can here it doesn't matter when the story happened. As he's telling the story again, that kind of aggressive anger about it. And that's what we heard with Parcels and now part of me wants them to you know, make that's what I was going before one of them is gone. But yeah, some sometimes you're just done with the person in your life. Maybe that's just as healthy to just be like, I made that decision. That's did you say he was only happy with most of the conversation. Yeah, he probably Well I don't, Yeah, I don't. I'd love to know what made him unhappy. But maybe maybe it was like bringing up some of these, um these memories. I wish I kept my mouth shut when I sort of like came back and was like, oh, but you stuck into Belichian. I think the memoir so it was technically based on I love that because if there was one person to make it awkward in this room, it would would be Greg. It would be I do love that. He was like, look, he was much more conservative than me. If you added it up, I had my way with him ultimately, which is that's that's what you watched. I mean, this guy, I love the history of the game. And he was with Jimmy. He was with Don. If we had all the time, we could have asked a lot of stuff. He was with Don Shula and then Jimmy Johnson and he was in Miami that whole time. He he was there for the end of Don Shoe and he was such a good assistant and he did some offensive coaching too, not just special teams. Uh that when Jimmy Johnson came in, they he he saw both of those eras just like a fascinating like those guys have all the best and he sticks up for the people the way that some people feel about the Rex Ryan led Jets, that that that behind the scenes, Rex Ryan was very different, very organized, and that the special teams for the best in the league because of him, because he's a great coach, and I did want to ask him a little short on time, but I did want to ask him also, you know, if there would be you know, famously the Nickel Robie Coleman play led to the um failed past interference rule change. If there was anything in the game and special teams that he feels they need to make adjustments on, but maybe that will be for the second time we speak with Mike if he chooses to join it. It's hard out there for special teams coach he coaches. He he alluded to it that the rules are changing in such a way that they have a little less impact and a little less flexibility than they treat It's all safety reasons, um, but yeah, kickoffs have changed quite a bit. Yeah, and assistant coaches that I think multiple times in his career. In the book, he talks about being approached by you know, management, we want you to replace this guy that that there's a current special teams coach that we don't like. And it's like August and it's like, it's the special teams coach. It's kind of a thankless gig where you gett noticed more when you you fail at it. But to Westos credit for that that instance he was talking about that led to the Parcels fallout. The Jets wanted to fire the current special team's coach and he said, no, I'll take over. But that guy is not gonna be fired. He's gonna stay. Will make it work, even if it's a little bit awkward looking out for his own. Uh. Positional groups do it for each other, absolutely, absolutely, Maybe good good app We'll be back on Thursday. We got a special show on Thursday. We're gonna be on the road. It's a road show. I mean it's like eight miles what is it? How far is it. I don't know. We're going to West Hollywood for the second annual Pride cast with cast of all stars, including my brother Kevin Danger Hands. I'd like to hear that in the traveling party. But also Connie Fox maybe a former producer with the show. I think people dots on this one probably can connect it. And and just so you know, I said, Graver, give me a song that connects with in your mind a pridecast um show in West Hollywood. So let's turn this up. This was justin Graver's choice with Randy Chavez sterilized. This is where we need to producer camera in the back. They've all got their hair wash up again. Alright, Mark and I are heading to the sterilization chamber and we will see you on Thursday. Thank you everybody for listening. Until then, he had the call. Great ending