Phillies bullpen, clubhouse shake up: Matt Strahm traded, J.T. Realmuto stalemate

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Phil Hi. This is Jace Olmute. Welcome to the Philly Show.

00:00:07
Speaker 2: Hey, Ruben Tomorrow Junior, Jim Salisbury Todd's a lucky happy holidays. It's Monday, December twenty second, twenty twenty five, and the holidays are almost here. Dave Nebrowski's been busy shopping, Jim and Ruben, He's been. He's been a busy man doing all of his last minute holiday shopping, Christmas shopping. Let's do a real we're a real quick recap of what went on this week. A Doulas Garcia signed to a one year, ten million dollar contract. On Tuesday, some front office moves, Phillies assistant GM Annie Colombie was named the Nationals GM. On Wednesday. Thursday, the Phillies announced that they signed right hander Brad Keller to a two year, twenty two million dollar contract. And then Friday, ooh got really crazy. Friday morning, the Phillies traded Matt Stron to the Royals for Jonathan Bolan, and then maybe I don't know, a couple hours later, they traded minor league outfielder avery A Woe sue A Siadu to the Diamondbacks for Kyle Bacchus and so now you got bullpen locks, John Deron, Keller, Bolan, Kirkring, Alvarado and banks that six guys and eight man bullpen Uh Bachus Uh will compete for bullpen job along with Rule five draft pick Zach mccambley, who he had on the show last week. Uh, Yelle, Corret Nolan, Hoffman, Set Johnson, Max Lazzar and others. But you know, we we we already had a show on on Garcia. We already had a show kind of talking about Keller. What do we think about the Matt Strom deal? Guys, that's that was That's big news.

00:01:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is big news.

00:01:56
Speaker 3: He's been a really good contributor for three years here in Philadelphi. You always took the ball, was healthy, was very effective on show.

00:02:06
Speaker 1: Hey o Tani.

00:02:08
Speaker 3: But I just think there's a lot of things in play, you know, one of them being they signed.

00:02:14
Speaker 1: Keller, and I love that move. That move's given me a lot of flow.

00:02:17
Speaker 3: I'm really liking the back end on Duran Alvarado from the left and Keller from the right.

00:02:23
Speaker 1: I liked that back three a lot.

00:02:25
Speaker 3: I think they freed up a little salary there to maybe help make Keller a little more palatable eleven per year over two years, and it just sounded like Strom's relationship with you with some corners of the organization had run its course and it was time for a change of scenery.

00:02:44
Speaker 1: You know.

00:02:44
Speaker 3: They said they felt comfortable depth wise with Alvarado and Banks from the left side. But oh, by the way, they just moments after that made a trade for Bacchus, So maybe they weren't.

00:02:54
Speaker 1: All that comfortable.

00:02:55
Speaker 3: So it just seems like it was time for a move on that front.

00:03:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, combination of things I thought actually made this team just a little deeper, a little bit better. You know, it was really important when you think back. Everybody talks about, you know, the offense. It was the offense that that's the reason why they didn't win. Well, there's a couple of different pitches in certain situations that were created by the bullpen and some of the foibles that they had in their bullpen that sort of created some losses for them over the last several years in you know, in these playoff situations. Yes they didn't score a ton of runs, but you also have to stop runs and if you can get the guys to you know, to get make the pitch they have to make to get the outs.

00:03:40
Speaker 5: Those are big.

00:03:41
Speaker 4: That's why I agree with you, Jim, that combination of Alvarado Duran obviously as a closer keller, you got Ryan Kirkering now from the right side. Tanner Banks has actually done a nice job in his role from the left side. And actually Bowlin is an interesting guy. He's a big, strong guy. He doesn't punch out a ton of guys. But talking to some scouts about this guy, even though I don't think he has any options left, he's sort of a lock now. He's one of those guys that can sort of hand the baseball in the sixth inning. He can get ground ball, soft contact, big strong guy with a I think he's a power sinker slider guy that I think that they really like. And having that type of guy is important, like especially if if you run into a situation where the starter only gives you five innings and you gotta lock it down for four more innings, It's important to have a guy like that. Interesting also turn of events, as far as I'm concerned on Annie who was the assistant GM amazing that these types of people in this industry can put themselves in these positions to be GMS.

00:04:58
Speaker 5: He's talking to a good friend of mine the other about the game of baseball.

00:05:01
Speaker 4: Imagine that this guy on he has the same title as Pat Gillick.

00:05:08
Speaker 5: Kind of strange.

00:05:10
Speaker 4: I mean, good for him that he gets this opportunity. But it is interesting that the industry, you thought that might the pendulum might start swinging the other way. As far as the impact that analytics has had in the game, in some ways very positive, in other ways not so positive. But they're still valuing it very, very highly in certain organizations. And that experiment that's going on, I think it's an experiment in Washington is insane. Thirty one year old manager, younger and younger and less experienced people in the front office. Very interesting way to go about it. It will be I'm super curious to see what happens in Washington over the next several years, whether they get any better or they get worse, because it's been a wild for them to not be very good.

00:06:01
Speaker 6: Well, it's gonna be interesting to see.

00:06:02
Speaker 2: How Dave Debrowski said the other day, they plan on filling that position, they're not sure if they're going to do it. Internally, they're not sure if they're going to do it with one guy, multiple guys gals to fill that position. But you know, to me, that says that the Nationals weren't really too deep in on analytics and so they wanted to shore up that side of the side of their baseball operations department. On it obviously comes from Tampa Bay where they have just a ton of success doing that type of thing.

00:06:29
Speaker 6: But interesting, interesting for sure.

00:06:31
Speaker 2: And then going back to so going back to Strom, Dobrowski said a couple of things. He said, Hey, you know, the question was asked, Strom's making seven and a half million dollars last year. Bowlin's going to make he has less than a year of service time even though he's out of options, and he's so he's going to make a little bit more than the league minimum, which is like seven hundred and fifty grand. Ish said, heah, you know, it really had nothing to do with payroll. You know, it didn't really have any you know, you'd have to ask other people. But you know, my relationship with Strom was fine, you know, despite what he clearly perturbed in his post season wrap up news conference in October, said it had more to do with balance of the of the bullpen. But I personally believe that, if you know, this is a more of a payroll slash personality move than anything, because we hear everybody forever say you can never have too much quality pitching, and he just traded a guy that's been pretty pretty quality, especially left handed. Yeah, exactly, it's great you have Alvarado and Banks. Banks hasn't really pitched too many high leverage situations over the years. He's been kind of more of a you know, the bridge too, Strom in Alvarado. So uh, I think it has a lot to do with payroll clearing, as they they're right under that fourth luxury tax number right now, and it has a lot to do with strong kind of butting heads with with people in the clubhouse. And you know, I got along great with Strom. I love talking to Strom. Super opinionated on a lot of different things. He made the comment to separately to mac album myself after Game four of the NLDS saying, you know, talking about the PFPS.

00:08:16
Speaker 6: Clearly that irritated Dave Dombrowski.

00:08:19
Speaker 2: You know, Rob Thompson made a point to say they did work on PFPS, that wasn't the They didn't trade him because of that comment, but I think it was a cumulative thing. Again, matt Strom very opinionated on a lot of different things, but he took the ball. He was not afraid. I never went I never went out there and watched matt Strom pitch. He said, he's looking kind of shaky out there. I think he's kind of scared in this moment, you know. So you know, a loss there in a sense, but something that they felt they needed to do.

00:08:50
Speaker 3: They're showing a lot of faith in Alvarado and Banks. And I like Alvarado. I like the strikeout stuff. But you know, we're going to see a little bit. We're going to get a read on him first couple of months because you know, after that ped suspension, all his stuff trended upward last year.

00:09:07
Speaker 1: It makes you scratch your head.

00:09:09
Speaker 3: But I still think he can He can be quality, and they need him to be quality.

00:09:14
Speaker 1: And Banks.

00:09:15
Speaker 3: I look at Banks as more of a middle guy that can really get you a big out in the middle, not necessarily a high leverage guy. So I also I think they could have their eyes open on left handers, you know, depending on things go throughout the summer. But you hope they don't have to because I do believe in the track record of Alvarado, I do believe in what I saw on Keller last year, and do run as well. So that leads me to say, on you know, December twenty second, I really like that back three.

00:09:45
Speaker 4: So there's a couple of layers that are that are associated with this strong deal that I think it's important to point out, and you hit on them, Todd, and I don't have a problem saying these words. I mean, it's pretty clear that the Billies are trying to change things around in that clubhouse a little bit. And it's also pretty clear that with guys like the Casianos Is in the Stroms of the world, that there weren't so pleased with some of you know, what they were getting out of that that those two pieces of the pie they've had at times pretty productive.

00:10:18
Speaker 5: You know, careers, there's no question about it.

00:10:21
Speaker 4: And you know, when you end up jettising a player like Strom in particular, you know you start thinking about what the reasons are.

00:10:29
Speaker 5: Well, I think it's a combination. It's a layering thing.

00:10:32
Speaker 4: It's about the money and freeing up the opportunity to sign that, you know, to sign Keller, and I think it's also about maybe freeing up a little money to try to bring JT back, And that's part of it as well.

00:10:45
Speaker 5: I mean, it's not a limited payroll.

00:10:48
Speaker 4: And I think that there's also some issues with with the makeup there and and the fact that he has some you know, some decline.

00:10:54
Speaker 5: You know, left handed pitchers. We've gone through this a lot.

00:10:58
Speaker 4: I mean, he was lights out, almost lights out in twenty twenty four, was an All Star, was phenomenal. I mean there was maybe not a better, more effective left hander. Not as effective last year, had a little short, late start because of his health.

00:11:17
Speaker 5: At some point you start to decline a little bit.

00:11:20
Speaker 4: Wasn't nearly as sharp, I didn't think in the playoffs as he was in the past.

00:11:24
Speaker 5: So I think it's a combination of some of the.

00:11:27
Speaker 4: Stuff going downhill a little bit, maybe a little makeup issue in the clubhouse, perhaps a little you know, perhaps the ability to free up a little bit money to do some other things. And you know, sometimes you make decisions not just based on one thing, but based on a variety of things, and that seems to be what's happened with Strom.

00:11:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, so real quick, if you're watching us on YouTube, don't forget to hit the subscribe button. We appreciate the support it helps grow and support the show. And of course go to the Philly Show Shop to pick up your Phillies Show merch.

00:12:03
Speaker 6: There's still time.

00:12:04
Speaker 2: You're not gonna get it before Christmas if you're looking for it, but you can still use the promo code Holiday to get ten percent off, so make sure you check that out. So let's I want to we talked about payroll, So this is interesting Ron Blum Bloom, What did I say by Rod Blum? Yeah, from the second guess myself from the AP reported last week that the Phillies will pay just over fifty six million dollars in luxury tax penalties from their twenty twenty five payroll. Only the Dodgers and one hundred and sixty nine point three, the Mets at ninety one point six and the Yankees at sixty one point seven paid more. So as we talk about clearing payroll for Brad Keller and Strom and you know JT and what he might get. Cott's contracts is a pretty great website if you want to take a look at where the Phillies payroll is. So I just checked them today They're projected forty minion payroll for luxury tax purposes. Right now, Monday December twenty second without JT, Real Muto is at three hundred and one point.

00:13:13
Speaker 6: Six million dollars.

00:13:15
Speaker 2: That's that's two point six million, right, if you guys can keep following me here, that's just under the fourth luxury tax threshold at three hundred and four million dollars. So as of today, they're already paying thirty nine million dollars in penalties for next season. So let's say JT signs at an AAV of fifteen. I think the Phillies would like that. I think JT wouldn't. I think JT's would more than that. But say that happens, the Phillies would then go past the fourth luxury tax threshold, and then JT's contract would basically they basically bang a little over thirty one million dollars for JT, fifteen million dollars in salary, a little over sixteen million dollars in luxury tax penalties. So I just wanted to kind of mention where they are, so bands kind of wondering, like, you know, can they go out and get a Bobaschet and a JT.

00:14:12
Speaker 6: You know, I've been told that.

00:14:14
Speaker 5: No.

00:14:15
Speaker 2: You know, if they get JT, they're out on all those guys. But maybe if JT find somebody else, maybe they jump in on a boba sheet, maybe they find a little bit extra scratch at that point.

00:14:28
Speaker 6: You know, I don't know if that's possible.

00:14:29
Speaker 2: I still think it's unlikely. I still think JT is going to come back, But I just wanted to. I wanted to throw those numbers out there for people just so they can kind of get a sense of what's kind of going on with their payroll.

00:14:40
Speaker 1: This this tax thing is real.

00:14:41
Speaker 3: Fifty six million in taxes on the twenty twenty five payroll. Just to put that in a little bit of perspective, that's basically what they're going to pay Harper and Schwarzer in twenty six is about fifty seven millions. So in that Wow, it's putitive.

00:15:03
Speaker 1: Man.

00:15:04
Speaker 5: So here's a deal. Uh.

00:15:05
Speaker 4: And I'll say this, I've got it from very very good sources. The Phillies lose money as far as year to year. They're losing hundreds of millions of dollars over the last several years, and.

00:15:15
Speaker 5: Fans are like, how could that possibly be?

00:15:17
Speaker 4: Happening right now with all the revenues and the packed houses, and well, there's only so many revenue streams you can get from from outside, from TV, from what have you, all your marketing stuff, uh, patches on their you know, on their uniform now and all that stuff. There's only so much you can generate in this marketplace.

00:15:38
Speaker 5: Yes, it's a big market, but they're not.

00:15:40
Speaker 4: Generating enough money to withstand the the these penalties and the amount of money that they're spending on their payroll and the amount of money that they're spending on their entire organization to operate at the highest level, which is exactly what John Middleton wants to do.

00:15:56
Speaker 5: That's why you've seen new owners.

00:15:58
Speaker 4: Come into the program to infuse more cash into it.

00:16:02
Speaker 5: And so you know, I've been there, I've seen it. It's one of the reasons why they don't do deferrals.

00:16:06
Speaker 4: It's one of the reasons why they try to keep you know, they you know, fiscally sound. But they're losing money now. Their franchise values going up, there's no question. So I mean, you can offset that obviously for a variety of reasons. When it comes to cash, they are still losing some money and a significant amount of money. And when you start paying these kind of penalties, man, it's not unlimited.

00:16:31
Speaker 5: The piece of the pie is not unlimited.

00:16:33
Speaker 4: They cannot afford I don't think to just continue to like go past these thresholds and have a viable organization that's gonna be sustainable.

00:16:44
Speaker 5: So, yeah, it's not our money.

00:16:46
Speaker 4: We'd love for them to pay for everybody, and I would like to see it maybe a little bit of change. And you did make a great point Todd for me that if in fact they do not sign JT, that may create something else that they can do. Why not trade Boom and then free up that money also and then maybe sign a Bishett or a Bregman. It looks like Markami's going to another team right now, So that's a guy that comes off the board, and so that you're gonna start seeing the third basement start to roll off the board a look bit. So it'll be interesting to see what happens. I don't think Dave Dombrowski's done necessarily. I don't think he wants to have people anticipate that that that big things are coming. But you never know what might happened over the next couple of months.

00:17:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, so JT again, like there's the Phillies have an offer on the table. They've been talking, they continue to talk. I don't know what they're what their offer or offers are, how much they've changed, But you know, obviously JT is looking for more and.

00:17:50
Speaker 6: More than that.

00:17:51
Speaker 2: I don't want to say they're at a stalemate, but you know, I've been watching the stalemate.

00:17:55
Speaker 5: I guess you could say it's stalemated.

00:17:58
Speaker 1: It's been described to me as a game chicken.

00:18:01
Speaker 6: So there you go, there, you can pick.

00:18:03
Speaker 1: You pick your word.

00:18:05
Speaker 3: They are staring each other down, and they might be short on the year's end the money because I think we've heard, you know, probably two years and like they're staring each other down. I still in my heart feel like he's coming back. But to me this, you know, what do they do if he doesn't come back? Is it Victor Caratini? Is it Rafael Marchan? Do you give him a look? I mean, just just you know. I know they traded the young catching prospect to the Twins, but this organization needs to build a stock of catching prospects. If in spring training they need to look at every infielder and outfield that they don't think is going to make it to the big leagues, or maybe just gonna make it to the big leagues and be an extra. Every kid is a teenager and fits that mold and and say, do you want to stick around a little bit to put the gear on. Let's see what if we can make you a catcher, Because when you think about it, like four of the greatest catchers in this franchise history were all converted. Ruiz converted in fielder, j t converted in fielder, Bob Boone converted third baseman, right Rubin's correct, and Mike Leeberthal was an infielder right up until high school.

00:19:21
Speaker 1: His dad was a scout to the Tigers.

00:19:23
Speaker 3: Dad was a very smart baseball man and said, well, I want him to go to the big leagues.

00:19:27
Speaker 1: We're gonna make him the catcher.

00:19:30
Speaker 5: It is amazing.

00:19:32
Speaker 4: It is amazing that for me, the most important, the most important position player on the field is the catching position. Most managers are catchers. Is a reason why they sort of run the game. They are involved in every single play of the game. And yet there is a dearth of catching that is disgraceful in the major leagues.

00:19:57
Speaker 5: It's kind of disgraceful.

00:19:58
Speaker 4: Even guys like Adlie Dutchmen who are supposed to be phenomenal, really hasn't.

00:20:03
Speaker 5: He's sort of stalled out a little bit. I mean, I like him. I like the player.

00:20:06
Speaker 4: He's a switch hitting catcher who's got defensive talent, but.

00:20:09
Speaker 1: It doesn't catch all the time.

00:20:11
Speaker 5: Though it doesn't catch all the time.

00:20:12
Speaker 4: And now they have a super prospect from the left side who can really swing the back. But now they're gonna make him a d H or a first basement. I mean, there's so many great athletes in the game, there's not very many good catchers and uh, and you know, it's hard, it's hard to find, and yet it's.

00:20:32
Speaker 5: Such an important position.

00:20:34
Speaker 4: It will be interesting to see how this thing all play plays out because JT's been a star Wars for him, he's been great. And uh, and listen, if they got to go with Marshawan and they have to sign up Quarantini or I have to go with Marshaw and Stubbs not ideal, but maybe they can do something else.

00:20:51
Speaker 5: And hey, listen, Uh.

00:20:53
Speaker 4: Carlos Rees, not a lot of people believed in him for a while, and then he became an everyday catcher, one of the best catchers they've had in this franchise. Could that happen to Marshawan? Could he get better? Could he be durable enough? You don't know until you see him, and so, uh, if JT doesn't come back, don't be surprised by Marshawn catching maybe one hundred games next year.

00:21:15
Speaker 6: I mean that that would be a way to go.

00:21:16
Speaker 2: It would be definitely risky because you have Crawford now being the every day center fielder basically, so you'd be having your.

00:21:21
Speaker 6: Eight to nine hole hitters.

00:21:23
Speaker 2: I mean, who knows what kind of production you're gonna get from from either of those two guys. Uh. But also again I always I've told this story to you before. I still see you guys before, and to others. I still remember in two thousand whatever, Carlos Reis's first year was as mostly an everyday guy. And you know, this is when you guys had Reuben Mlou Marson was in Triple A and he was one hundred prospect and everybody was just killing Charlie on playing Carli killing you and Pat Gillick for playing lout what Choot stinks and all this stuff and Charlie finally blew up at us one day in the dugout and said, God, damn, you know, we're under eight old hitter to carry us.

00:22:01
Speaker 6: You know, we're in deep trouble, like you know.

00:22:03
Speaker 2: So, yeah, I thought that the top seven guys in the lineup do what they're supposed to do. Maybe you can get by with with with a mar Shaan and uh and the Crawford maybe as he kind of feels his way around during his rookie season. Because the trade options out there, the free agent options are terrible. You mentioned Jim Jim, You mentioned Kartini, right, who's kind of been a number two ish type of guy most of his career. The trade options aren't great either. Yeah, Rushman would be great. What's he going to cost Hunter Goodman from the Rockies? Oh my gosh, he'd be amazing. What's he gonna cost Ryan Jeffers from the Twins. He would be great. But they've you know, Christian Vasquez is a free agent. They've kind of said earlier earlier this month that he's you know, Jeffers. They want him to be the everyday catcher finally, So I don't know if he's going to be available he's the Twins, so you can't rule it out. And then you look at guys like, you know, Sean Murphy from the Braves. That's a salary dump. He's had some hit problem. His offensive production's gone way down. So you know, there's not a lot of great options out there trade wise that you know you're not gonna like sacrifice a ton of prospect capital get.

00:23:12
Speaker 1: If you played marsh On.

00:23:13
Speaker 3: Let's just you know, think of that, if you played him, you'd keep some payroll drive for the some power to drive for the trade deadline.

00:23:23
Speaker 5: Yea yeah.

00:23:24
Speaker 4: In addition, so the other part of that is that, listen, I like Marshaan more than other people do. Maybe maybe it's because you know, a lot of people haven't seen him a lot. He's got pretty good back to ball skills. As a switch hitting catcher, he got a little bit better. Listen, the guy didn't play very much. It's hard to evaluate a guy who doesn't only plays what sixty games.

00:23:46
Speaker 5: Or whatever the hell he played behind a guy like JT.

00:23:49
Speaker 4: This guy's not a bad player, and he's not as bad a hitter as people. He's not a one to eighty hitter. I think he's probably gonna end up being like a two thirty hitter or two forty hitter at some point if he gets a chance to play every day and he actually is a good catch and throw guy has studied and learned and learned from JT.

00:24:09
Speaker 5: He runs a good game.

00:24:10
Speaker 4: There's a lot of good things about Marshawn that you can sort of hope that he can handle.

00:24:16
Speaker 5: My issue with him is his durability. Can he play one hundred games.

00:24:21
Speaker 4: For a championship caliber club? You never know until you give him the opportunity. I happen to like him a little bit more than some other guys, who knows what he can be with he plays a little bit more every day.

00:24:31
Speaker 3: Here's a question who is in on JT other than the Phillies. You know, I think a lot of the teams that need catching. I mean Tampa Bay, Houston. Houston might play the daz kid more, but a lot of those teams are right up against it. Peroll Wise don't have the money that you know. The Giants have been mentioned. I'm just not sure that's going to happen. They have Bailey. I keep thinking that, boy, would you know, well, the Mets get involved, But I haven't heard anything.

00:25:00
Speaker 5: I don't imagine why he would go to the Mets.

00:25:02
Speaker 4: He's got his best friend in shorebur right there down the road.

00:25:06
Speaker 1: I'm not saying you would go there.

00:25:07
Speaker 3: I'm just surprised to make Maybe they haven't gotten involved given their catching situation. But you know, I haven't heard a lot of teams on him, have you.

00:25:16
Speaker 4: I have not, and I'm just surprised. I think he's just holding out for that last year, that third year. I think that's more important to him than anything else. And I think the Phillies are rightly only offering too. That's what I think is happening. I don't know that for fact, but that's the feel I get, and that's why they're at a stalemate.

00:25:35
Speaker 2: Maybe it will be interesting to see how long it goes.

00:25:38
Speaker 6: I mean.

00:25:40
Speaker 2: Later today, later on Monday, you know, there could be an agreement announced. But remember five years ago when he signed, it was like January twenty sixth, January twenty ninth, and that was when there was It was basically again, Jim, what do you say, a game of chicken? It was kind of a game of chicken back then too. Remember the Mets sign Brian McCann. Was it Brian mccannon or no James McCann. James mccannon mess, Yeah, mcann. That didn't work out too well for them. That didn't work out too well for him. But there was really nobody else in on JT. So JT was looking for a big number. The Phillies off made their offer, and then JT finally they finally came around in late January.

00:26:23
Speaker 6: I know, maybe that maybe drags on that long.

00:26:25
Speaker 1: All right, give me your predictions on the end game here with j T. Give me the predictions.

00:26:29
Speaker 2: I think JT ends up re signing with the Phillies on a two year deal with an aa VU more than the Phillies are comfortable paying. But to get it done, they they they go over their their comfort.

00:26:41
Speaker 5: Level real two years under thirty million.

00:26:45
Speaker 6: So you think it's.

00:26:48
Speaker 4: I think that they're going to hold right there and if and I don't think the Phillies are gonna wait around all that long, because as these other guys get off the board and they decided that you know, they might they made very well just say, you know what, let's do a Marshawn, Let's maybe go to a Victor Kartini, or let's go with Marshawn and Stubbs and just wing it and hold powder. Like Jimmy said, I mean, if I was sitting there and I was Dave Dombrowski right now, Yes, I would absolutely love to have JT back and have it get done. But I'm going to get a little impatient as we get closer and closer to January. First, it's time for us to make some moves because these third basement or other opportunities that they may be able to create by waiting.

00:27:26
Speaker 5: Around for JT.

00:27:28
Speaker 4: I'm going to get a little pissed off, and I'm going to try to you know, I got to.

00:27:31
Speaker 5: Do it best for the Philadelphia Phillies.

00:27:34
Speaker 3: Right, I'm going to say John Middleton steps in and visits with JT, looks him in the eye, talks to him on the phone, texts him whatever they need to do, and they get a two year deal done just north of thirty. I think he looks in the eye and says, you're an important Philly I want you back.

00:27:54
Speaker 1: How do we get it done? You know he did make what he was averaging.

00:27:59
Speaker 3: His average geniue value was twenty two and changed the last five years twenty three.

00:28:03
Speaker 2: Twenty three ish I think twenty three one, you know, yeah, five year, one hundred and fifteen point five.

00:28:08
Speaker 3: I can see where the team is coming from on you know, wanting to bring that that aav down.

00:28:14
Speaker 1: I could see where the player is coming from. He's got pride.

00:28:18
Speaker 3: So I'm wondering if the owner steps in and says, Okay, enough of this crap, let's get it done, then how do we get it done?

00:28:23
Speaker 7: We'll see, exactly right, very possible because because John knows how important that that position is, and it is, but at some point, I mean, you got to turn the fascet off and see what happens.

00:28:35
Speaker 5: And that's what they're doing right now. And I don't blame him.

00:28:37
Speaker 3: And I think John really values guys who are much like Dave Montgomery did, and guys who we are Phillies.

00:28:43
Speaker 1: And when I look at J.

00:28:44
Speaker 3: T reil Mudo, I think, I mean, I know he was a Marl and I know they got him in trade, but to me, he is.

00:28:49
Speaker 5: A Philly been one for a while.

00:28:51
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah.

00:28:52
Speaker 3: He embodies a lot of what, yeah, what the people who run that team want that team to be. And I don't think you can discount the fact that the starting pitchers really want him as well and really value what he brings to them. So my end game is he he's back here, but who knows.

00:29:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean yeah, Zach Wheeler of course loves the guy. My colleague at MLB dot com, Christina de Nicola, talked with his Zarto Saturday at an event and down in Miami. It's like, oh, man, JT was great for me. JT was absolutely grateful me. I really hope he's back. And that's that is a consensus. I think you could throw any pitcher on the Phillies organization that's actually thrown to him. They love the guy.

00:29:39
Speaker 3: They this just this, this whole, this whole dance just to me firms up the idea that you need more catching prospects, you need more inventory, and so so one of them will stick. If you have ten of them, maybe you can get one of them. I hear about all these pitching labs and all these hitting labs. Let's have a catching lab.

00:29:59
Speaker 6: That's a great idea. Jim has said to me before, like that.

00:30:03
Speaker 5: The most important position on the field.

00:30:07
Speaker 4: Now the analytics folks may see may see it as less and less important now that they're going to have the ABS system in place, or they'll be able to get in their ear and call their own pitches.

00:30:21
Speaker 5: That's something they might be thinking about.

00:30:23
Speaker 4: But I will tell you that it's so important to have the trust of your catcher when you're on the mound. You've got to have that trust and it's an important element of being you know, of being behind the plate and having a successful team, No.

00:30:39
Speaker 6: Doubt about it. Guys, that was fun. We will be back later this week. Maybe we'll be talking about JT.

00:30:45
Speaker 2: Who knows what Dave Dombrowski's got up his sleeve.

00:30:50
Speaker 1: Smell noll you, Jim.

00:30:52
Speaker 2: The Philly Show is brought to you by the Foul Territory Network. Subscribe to The Philly Show on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.