Love Stories + Reflections Ep 445

00:00:09
Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, and course creator. We are two working parents who love our careers and our families.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.

00:00:33
Speaker 1: Term career goals.

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Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.

00:00:41
Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.

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Speaker 2: This episode is airing in mid February, right before Valentine's Day. It's going to be a bit of a Valentine's Day themed episode.

00:00:51
Speaker 1: Sarah, do you guys have Valentine's Day traditions in your family?

00:00:55
Speaker 3: Yes, and you guys have heard me talk about this before if you've listened in prior years when we've just got Valentines. But we do have a very long standing tradition that goes back to my own father started this Valentine's stage treasure hunt that we would always do in the morning before school, where we'd follow a series of clues and then at the end of the treasure hunt, was always some chocolate, and I tried that out as soon as ANEMPLEE could read, I think, or even decipher pictures, and it's been hit ever since. And it makes me so happy that the kids actively asked for this every year, although this year they have been very specific that in addition to the chocolate which we always buy them, they would all like jelly cats. So I don't know, I have to do a little more advanced planning because.

00:01:41
Speaker 2: Why is this the jelly We're not a jelly cat family yet or whatever, So maybe you can enlighten those of us who are not in this.

00:01:49
Speaker 3: Yes, jelly cat are this generation's beanie baby.

00:01:52
Speaker 1: Okay, they are.

00:01:53
Speaker 3: I mean, that's how I understand them. My kids aren't any other sort of arm of that collecting tendency might be towards La booboos, gotcha with the current kids, but my kids are not really that into La booboos. They are super into jelly cats. And I also kind of don't blame them, Like they're really cute, very well designed stuffed animals that come out in all these ridiculous limited additions, and the kids like to collect them, and you know, have a collection that expresses their style and I don't even know, but they all want jelly cats, even camera.

00:02:25
Speaker 2: So they're going to get jelly cats as part of this. Yes, yes, I reach have one of them. I need to order two more. And you have to do this at a set time to get the right ones that you want to.

00:02:37
Speaker 3: I'm not going to put that much, okay work into it.

00:02:40
Speaker 1: What about you, guys? What is your valance?

00:02:42
Speaker 3: Do you guys go out to dinner or go on a date?

00:02:45
Speaker 2: Well, we often do, but that's because the day we met is February fifteen, and that is also the day we got engaged one year later, so there's sort of multiple anniversaries that would be that week. So we don't necessarily go out on the fourteenth always, but it might be right around then to celebrate our anniversary. This year, we have a reservation at Longwood Gardens nineteen oh six restaurants. When they did their huge renovation, they kind of did up this new restaurant that they have there, and they are having a special Valentine's Day truffle menu, so I have a reservation for that. I figure we'll also go see the Greenhouse and they they'll have various winter displays up.

00:03:29
Speaker 1: Which is gonna be nice.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that sounds lovely and truffles. That's super fun and luxurious. I like it.

00:03:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you guys don't necessarily go out the two of you for Valentine's Day.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember the last time we did. I feel like pre kids, we used to stay home and like drink champagne and make French toast or something, but even that hasn't happened in a long time. I feel like we treat it like any other work day after that little morning celebration. So I guess at least we avoid the crowds.

00:03:56
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's one way to look at it.

00:03:58
Speaker 2: Oh, you don't have like traditions with friends or anything like a Gallantine's Day kind of thing.

00:04:03
Speaker 3: No, that sounds like a ton of fun, And actually I believe that one. So when I do bestly plans at home this year, it spawned a bunch of local offshoots where people were like, oh, let's get together Chicago Belle Peers, and I believe one of those branches is doing a Gallantine's party and They'm like, I wish they could come.

00:04:20
Speaker 2: I know that sounds great. Although you'll be around here part of that weekend.

00:04:25
Speaker 3: Oh that's true. Well I'll be there right after Rellen, right after Fantastic.

00:04:29
Speaker 1: But we could.

00:04:30
Speaker 3: Call it that we are Valentine Let's rebrand.

00:04:33
Speaker 1: We are rebranding. Oh I love it. I love it.

00:04:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I might give my kids many years, I've got my kids some sort of candy or a little present as part of a Valentine's Day celebration. I don't know, it's it's a bleak time of winter. I mean, that'll be our next episode. But you know, it's nice to have a little celebration, something fun during that time of day and sometimes year we sometimes we do like the lunar New Year celebration to get another excuse to do something fest of you know.

00:04:59
Speaker 3: And I really like the rem It doesn't have to be with a romantic partner. It can be with your kids, it can be with your friends, it can be with yourself. Like and I know they say, oh, it's commercialized, but I don't know, an excuse to like look at pink, cute things and eat chocolate Like I'm proud of that. Yeah.

00:05:14
Speaker 2: Well, and you know, if people would like to feel appreciated, and you know, your love language is being celebrated in some sort of way. I mean, there's nothing wrong with it either, just that you know the fact that it is commercial, so is Christmas, and people get their heads around giving presents for that, so you know, something to think about. We thought we'd do a few sort of stories from our early romantic life, obviously with our husbands, not other romantic stories.

00:05:44
Speaker 1: But so, Sarah, how did you and Josh meet?

00:05:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, and by the way, if this is like the first time you've listened to this podcast, I mean, we're going to talk about ourselves just because it's really fun. And sometimes it's really fun to just listen to the backstories of someone that you now know what their loves look like today. But I don't know, I feel like, if this is your very first episode, you should pick a different one. All that said, yeah, let's go back to the origin stories. So you asked how we met. Yes, we met twice. So the first time we met I don't actually remember it, and that has like gone down in relationship infamy. But there was some sort of like Duke accepted med students event and apparently he tried to talk to me, but I was like, seemed very uninterested and I apparently will not get to live that down.

00:06:31
Speaker 2: However, I should have tried to be more interesting then, Sarah.

00:06:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean bring a game. Then I guess not. I mean, yeah, who knows. But I definitely noticed him and feel like I did meet him. When we had a pre school year, there was like a camp out which the object was to get to know everyone, et cetera. And there were two options. You could either go on a white water rafting trip or you could hike. And he claims he picked the whitewater raft Dan got stuck in hiking because obviously all the fun people pick white water rafting, but I was like, I picked hiking because, like, I don't know, I went on a white water rafting trip in high school and it was like very bumpy and very wet and very cold, and I was like, hiking sounds more pleasant. And it turned out to be like a very strenuous hike with a group that was selected for the people who didn't want a white water raft so it wasn't necessarily like the world's most athletic people, but it was a bonding moment. I shared a sandwich with him. We made it up to the top of the mountain, and I mean the rest is I don't know if it was history because we didn't immediately get together after that, but I definitely knew who he was and noticed him, and then we were like texting. We were using aim back then, you know, and everyone was kind of like chatting, and I really thought he was cutey, he had some clever stuff. And then I actually asked him out on our first date because I felt like we were just flirting too much, and in my characteristic fashion, I'm like, let's move on, like, let's let's make a decision, let's move things fisters by time, and that's going to be a theme you're going to notice as we continue to just go this. But he definitely said yes, and he asked me on the second date, so that was good. Yeah. Yeah, that's how we met.

00:08:06
Speaker 1: Excellent, excellent.

00:08:08
Speaker 3: What about you, guys?

00:08:10
Speaker 1: So I was living in New York City.

00:08:13
Speaker 2: This was two thousand and three, and my friend from college had just started dating a guy who worked in the same office as Michael, like out of his company's New Jersey office, and there was a group of people who were sort of younger people who lived in New York City and worked out in New Jersey and they would get together for social things. They called it like the New Jersey Social Club or something like that. So anyway, my friend was with her new boyfriend at this bar in the village and I don't know, hanging out there, and then she was like just texting a bunch of friends to come meet her there. And I had been out to dinner with some other people, and you know, I got this text and I was sort of like, Eh, well, sure, why not, I'll head over And then you know, I'm standing there at the bar and gentleman starts talking to me.

00:09:03
Speaker 1: And that's so, I guess.

00:09:06
Speaker 3: So on from there and the rest was history.

00:09:10
Speaker 2: As the few little things to get going with it.

00:09:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, it's never like oh and then we got married.

00:09:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So what was your first date?

00:09:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, so our first date, the one that I asked him to. It was over Labor Day weekend and so there wasn't a lot of places open back then in Durham. A lot of restaurants shut down. So we went to a Japanese steakhouse. And I would love to say, oh, in every libor day we go to Beni Hanna, but we don't, but it would be funny. But it was not Beni Hannah, but it was a place like Benni Hannah. And it was actually like a really fun, bonding kind of a date because it's like silly and something to talk about. And then the second date, he asked me to come over for dinner, so like, you know, that's fun. And I get there and there's a note on the door and it says sorry, run late. So he was late to a date at his own home, which is interesting, right and kind of maybe a little bit of a harbinger. And I go in and I go through his CD collection and I'm like, oh, like we are compatible because we like all the same like we had so many the same CDs. And I had thought somehow that my musical tastes were like a little bit quirky, but there was just a lot of overlap, like Amy Mann and Elliott Smith, and I was like, this could work out. And I had a great time on that second date. He still runs late from time to time. Although I was.

00:10:33
Speaker 2: Gonna say that didn't totally turn you off that he was like late.

00:10:39
Speaker 3: No, I probably didn't care. I was like enamored at that point already, so it was like, okay, whatever, I mean, little did I know it was going to be something that I'd have to learn to handle. But to his credit, I feel like we've both made progress in each other's direction. Is it perfect, No, but I think he's definitely less late and I'm more tolerant of late then we would be if we had ended.

00:11:01
Speaker 1: Up with other people. Excellent.

00:11:04
Speaker 2: Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and then we'll be back with more Valentine's Day stories.

00:11:20
Speaker 3: All right, Well we are back, and I was just sharing the not the details, but some information about my first and second date, and Laura, I would like to know, do you remember those first couple aside from the bar, which I don't feel like that one counts.

00:11:36
Speaker 1: No, No, that wasn't really date.

00:11:37
Speaker 2: So I just left from the bar like the rest of them were going somewhere, but I was sort of like, I'm going home.

00:11:43
Speaker 1: So he was sort of like, oh, okay, you're leaving.

00:11:47
Speaker 2: But he got his colleague obviously to ask my friend if it was okay to like get my number through them, and I said it was fine. So then he reached out and we went to Brunt on date number one, which.

00:12:02
Speaker 1: Was a little bit awkward.

00:12:04
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, it was just slightly awkward having a conversation getting to know each other.

00:12:11
Speaker 1: But then the second date was more promising.

00:12:14
Speaker 2: So he said he was going to take me to this like mystery location, which I guess I had enough trust that he wasn't like an axe murder that the mystery location was some like basement in Queens where I would like not escape from.

00:12:28
Speaker 1: But anyway, he picked me up in.

00:12:31
Speaker 2: A rental car and we drove out to the Cody Island Aquarium and so we saw the fishies and we went and walked on the beach, which, of course it was like February, I was freezing, but it was kind of fun to be out on the pier and looking at the ocean. And then we went back and had Margherita's at a place near my house, and I sort of remember at that point like as we were talking over Margerita's, I'm like, I am actually having a good time right like I've been I don't know, I had been on a lot of dates in like the previous six months, some of which were okay, some of.

00:13:08
Speaker 1: Which were really bad.

00:13:11
Speaker 2: So it was this moment of like, oh, okay, I'm actually enjoying myself like the conversation is going, I can see this continuing, and so.

00:13:22
Speaker 1: That was good. I guess I felt like it was going to work.

00:13:26
Speaker 3: And then was there a moment when you were like, oh, now I know, now I know this is like serious, this is maybe forever. I guess when he proposed, so you hadn't like pre contemplated a lot of this so well.

00:13:42
Speaker 2: I mean, so if I'd been paying more attention, I would have been more aware that he was, like he was really into it. I mean there was one point where he, like, on a very early date, he had like insisted I meet his parents when they were visiting town. He may have had an extra drink, but he was like there on the sidewalk being.

00:14:01
Speaker 1: I love you, I love you, I love you. I'm like, I met you three weeks ago.

00:14:06
Speaker 3: Wow.

00:14:08
Speaker 2: So anyway, and then you know he was pulling out all the stops, like we went, you know, we went to Europe for the weekend and stuff like that. And he had said at some point before Christmas the first year, you know, when we were dating, He's like, well, what do you think if, like if Christmas went well, do you think I'd be the kind of person you could marry and I was sort of I don't know what I even answered to that, but then.

00:14:29
Speaker 3: And what a sweet way to ask, right, because it was like, I'm not asking you to marry me, but like I just want to make sure there's like a chance.

00:14:35
Speaker 1: Here, a chance here.

00:14:36
Speaker 2: And then on the first year anniversary of our meeting, we went to Bermuda for the weekend and he brought me to some beach he had pre selected, and then yeah, I was like, okay, like I was not expecting it, Sarah, I was not expecting it, but I said yes obviously, and I'm.

00:14:57
Speaker 1: Happy I did.

00:14:58
Speaker 3: So funny. We are, yeah, very very different in terms of our trajectories there.

00:15:04
Speaker 1: But I think it was just I was young. I mean I was you were young too, but I was like I.

00:15:08
Speaker 3: Was pretty young. I met and when I was twenty two, and then like I kind of was like, I hope we get married by the time I was like twenty three.

00:15:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I guess I just hadn't.

00:15:16
Speaker 2: I don't know, I hadn't necessarily got plans one getting married in my early twenties. I guess is it wasn't like something I thought about, and so obviously when you meet the right person, then your timeline shifts right and there's no point in like saying, Okay, well not now, but three years from now.

00:15:32
Speaker 1: I mean, what would be the point of that.

00:15:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think my personality like I think, I don't know. I think I'm kind of like Taylor Swift in that way, like I was always thinking a few steps ahead, like oh, I want kids, and like when should I have those kids, and who do I want to have those kids with? And like what would my family be like if I was with this person? And I feel like I had those thoughts even in high school or with other relationships. So I guess I just couldn't help but think about those things. I didn't think about other things, like I didn't always think about it as that pertained to my job, Like I didn't always link those two things. Because we've talked on the podcast how I ended up leaving the pH D in part because I was like, Eh, that timeline wasn't exactly for me in terms of like when I wanted children and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I feel like by that Thanksgiving I went home to Philadelphia, he went to Miami Beach, and we were like texting each other on those phones where you had to dial too too too to make a let her see or whatever. You know, every text took five minutes, but we were not stopping, like we couldn't stop. And I was like, you know, I kind of like it if we never had to spend a vacation apart again, which is funny because now I kind of enjoy traveling by myself on occasion, but back then it was just like, oh, I just want us to be together. And then we actually did. I think for Christmas break, we went to Miami Beach and then I famously got lost, and his parents thought they were going to have to call my parents and say, like, your daughter got abducted running in our neighborhood because I crossed like the dumbest street, like I went anyway. But yeah, I knew pretty early, like it just felt right, and I was like, yeah, this is a life track that I feel I could commit to. And so how did the proposal happen? Well, his sister got engaged and then his brother got engaged, or maybe it was the other way around. I think it was the brother first and the sister and like we'd kind of all gotten together at the same time, and I'm like, hello, hello over here. I'm never like, like, were these three couples lined up in a row and they're all getting married and they all have rings, and where's mine? Like I think there was a tiny, maybe bit of that, and I did start to like again, planning brain could not be turned off, and I was thinking, well, if we're gonna get we were living together, I mean, we were acting like all the roles of a married couple at that point. Our finances were pretty much joined, and we lived in a house and whatever, and I was thinking about how well it'd be great if we could get married before he starts residency, because it wouldn't be very much fun to try to plan a honeymoon, run a wedding when he's a resident. And so as I rounded the bend towards like the end of med school and I knew how much time it took to plan a wedding, I'm like, now it would be good. And obviously I didn't like strong art. You can't strong arm someone, but I was just like suggesting that, like maybe the timing would be good, but I didn't actually like know really when anything was gonna happen. And then one day I was working in a lab at the time because I was part of my research track during med school I spent again, it was on that mdphd track. I spent a year in the lab, and I was like coming home for lunch because I was five minutes from the lab and I'm getting my lunch, and like he's kneeling down in front of the refrigerator, like on some random day, and I guess in retrospect, he said, well, I'd been waiting so long for the ring to come in which he had worked with one of my friends to design custom like super super sweet, and when it came, he just like didn't want to wait. He just wanted to like give me the ring, even if it was like lunchtime and I had to get back to run the real time PCR because it would get messed up if I waited too long. And so yeah, right in front of the fridge. But we were both kind of on the path of like, yay, we're excited for this to happen. And indeed it was a lovely time to get married because we got married between his med school and residency and I had one year of med school left. But that meant that there was no wedding planning going on while he was a resident, which would have been really kind of rough.

00:19:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, where did you get married?

00:19:14
Speaker 3: We got married at the Duke Gardens and then we had a party, a reception at this restaurant called Residence in Chapel Hill, and we had a party bus that went between the two And you know, as you're asking this, I'm like, weren't you there? And I'm like, no, I was not there, Sarah. And isn't it funny to think about who was at your wedding? Because I'm still close with some people, and then other people are like the people that I happened to be working in the lab with at the time, who felt like my besties but definitely haven't talked to in a couple of decades. What about your wedding? What happened with you guys?

00:19:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a snapshot in time for sure. Yeah.

00:19:51
Speaker 2: Well, we got married at the Princeton Seminary, the Princeton Seminary Chapel, so not Princeton University Chapel, which some of our guests showed up at the Princeton Seminary Chapel, which is about half a mile away. We started a little later than originally thought, but it was a great service. We had my choir from New York sinto group and so they sang for it. And one of Michael's good friends from high school is actually a soloist with the Metropolitan Opera at the time, and so she sang for us as well. And we had great organ we had you know, it was good stuff. And then our reception was at Mountain Lake's House, which is just about two three miles down the road from Princeton Campus, and it was a nice little bucolic setting on a there's no mountains there. I don't know why they call it Mountain Lake's House, but there's a lake and trees and stuff, and it was a beautiful September sort of golden afternoon to evening, a lot of beautiful photos. We had a string quartet play that was our music there, so yeah, it was it was lovely.

00:21:00
Speaker 3: We did not have a beautiful bucolic day. It was like ninety five degrees and four pm with a bright, shining, humid sun. And honestly, whenever our wedding comes up in conversation, people either comment on how incredibly hot they were and how they almost died, or how drunk they got.

00:21:16
Speaker 2: There's a lot of that too, remember there related they were just thirsty, Sarah. I mean, I know you don't feel thirst as we have discussed in a previous episode, but your guests may have been trying to solve those two problems made at the same time. Yes, well, sadly I was not there. Sarah and I met each other later, but that would have been a ton of fun, like if you and I could have enjoyed it at your wedding.

00:21:37
Speaker 1: So you know, little did we know all the people we'd meet in the future.

00:21:41
Speaker 2: Well, we're gonna take one more quick ad break and then we'll be back more on our Valentine's Day episode. So we are back with our val times Day episode. Sarah, where was your honeymoon? It's a place that has relevance for your life now, right.

00:22:05
Speaker 3: Yes, we went to Maui and the Big Island, and I know we did not have money to do such things, and our family was super super kind. I think they donated airline miles and helped paper hotels and we had such a good time. And so we're going back to Maui for our twentieth anniversary. So that's going to be meaningful. We're not going to the Big Island because I wanted to go to Kauai that time as well, and we didn't, So this time we're going to Kauai as well. It's super super excited. What about you guys.

00:22:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we went to Africa.

00:22:35
Speaker 2: We took three weeks, and with the understanding that we would both be sort of working part time. The last week of it, we were in a resort for that, but we spent two weeks kind of driving around.

00:22:47
Speaker 1: We He rented a car.

00:22:50
Speaker 2: This is a theme of my husband renting cars in strange places that most people do not drive.

00:22:55
Speaker 1: But anyway, we flew into.

00:22:57
Speaker 2: Cape Town, got our car, and then had to go back because it wasn't a four wheel drive, so had to go get a different car. Stayed in Cape Town for a couple of days, drove to wine Country near there and stayed a winery for a day or two, and then we kind of just went free form, which now I understand you'll appreciate this. Sarah, I planned the wedding. He planned the honeymoon. The wedding was planned, like everything, every detail. There were aspects of the honeymoon that were planned. Obviously, the first few nights and then our resort we had at the end. But the in between time we were basically just driving around South Africa, Namibia, Botswana without hotel reservations, which at the time.

00:23:50
Speaker 1: Again I was young, I was very trusting.

00:23:52
Speaker 2: I just assumed he'd figure it out, and we did find places.

00:23:56
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, we had a lot of adventures.

00:24:00
Speaker 2: Probably if I were going to do that again, I would make reservations. You see how far we'd get that day, and then see where we go and if we want to see something interesting we could stay there. But there's not a whole lot of hotel infrastructure in many of those places in Africa, right and Namibia and Botswana, especially as you get out of like Windhook and into the northern part of there and you're by the border with Angola which had a long running civil war. That there's just not a lot of tourist infrastructure up in all those places. But we did find a few places, we saw some cool stuff. We ended up in Johannesburg, flew to Mauritius and then stayed in a resort in Mauritius for a week, and that was more traditional sort of honeymoon kind of place right, like you know, on the water, high end resort kind of stuff.

00:24:47
Speaker 3: Well, that's amazing. I mean it has to have been memorable. And I do feel like, only in your twenties could you just be like, eh, whatever, we'll figure it out.

00:24:55
Speaker 2: Well anyway, I mean I wouldn't have done that ever on my own. But because he and his brother had spent some time sort of just traveling around Africa as well, and the two of them like two dudes, like they were just whatever, like they would sleep in their car if they needed to.

00:25:11
Speaker 1: I don't think we'd really thought through that.

00:25:12
Speaker 2: I really was not going to want to sleep in the car on your honeymoon on my honeymoon, So I think the downside in that was like a different downside than when he had traveled earlier, and so it hadn't necessarily totally gone through. But like I said, the beginning and the end had been chosen well, and so it was just the free.

00:25:30
Speaker 3: Form in the middle that we were sorting out. I hope you have pictures from that.

00:25:34
Speaker 1: We do.

00:25:35
Speaker 2: We do, although this is like pre iPhone camera type days, so I mean they're printed pictures, but they're not that many. Because I was just like taking pictures on I don't know, like a camera camera. We had a digital camera. And I also have the best analog little journal that I kept for that trip. I don't think I've done one as good since for any trip, but I am absolutely going to whip it out before we go back to Maui because it's like so fun to flip there. I took a little no botes and pasted in like the label from the wine bottle, or like the menu from the restaurant or whatever, and.

00:26:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of yeah, that's nice. Treasured, treasured for sure, of course, of course.

00:26:11
Speaker 2: And did you know that what size family you would want? You know, as you were beginning your journey together.

00:26:18
Speaker 3: I wanted three kids. I knew I wanted girls and boys. They didn't have specifics on the order. Then after having two of them, I was like, two is good, And then as time went by, I wanted three again. So yes, I think. And Josh is one of three, and he had a bit of an idyllic upbringing, so that might have shaped some of my desires. But I was really excited to have three kids.

00:26:40
Speaker 2: And did you have names picked out from the beginning, Like were you one of those people who knew the kid's names long ahead of time.

00:26:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're not my kid's names. They were oah, Lily, And then we had like no real boy's names, so we would sell a different boy's name, and every time we talked about it, huh, So why don't you have a Lily when you have two other girls? Or a Kara or a Kara.

00:27:00
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:27:01
Speaker 3: I got tired of those names. And I also decided that so Kara like Kara Hart like, it's a little I don't know, like there's.

00:27:11
Speaker 2: Aid we probably have a Kara heart listening to this, Sarah be like, what's wrong with my name?

00:27:15
Speaker 3: Well, my own name does the same thing, Sarah Hart right, like there's like a stop, And I was like, oh, I want a name that doesn't stop. So like Annabelle Hunger, Cameron Jasponger, they all flow, they flow off the time.

00:27:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, but did you like pick them out of baby books? Then? I mean, what how did Annabel just like come to you? Then it like was at like what point of Annabel's existence was Annabel decided upon?

00:27:39
Speaker 3: Well it's a fun question because we actually we knew Cameron's name because he's sort of named after Cameron in door stadium with Duke, and we were kind of thinking about using Cameron for a girl, but then kind of decided we preferred a little bit more feminine sounding names, and I don't know, it was one of the only names we could both agree on, so it was easy. And then Genevieve would have been Quentin Quentin.

00:27:58
Speaker 1: Interesting. I did not know that.

00:28:00
Speaker 3: How did you get his pick names? We're off scripted, by the way, But now I need to know, No, I need to know.

00:28:04
Speaker 2: I yeah, I'm trying to remember. Well, Jasper was sort of I just like that name. I mean, that was just I don't know, it wasn't when I grew up thinking. I did not grow up thinking like what my kids' names were going to be, as discussed earlier.

00:28:17
Speaker 1: I just didn't think about stuff like that very much.

00:28:21
Speaker 2: Or what my wedding was going to be. Like, I don't know, It's like, I don't know. Some people have different experiences. I didn't fixate on the wedding at all. Yeah, no, I didn't. But then so we did that, and I knew that Ruth was a girl name. I like, it's my middle name, and you know, I wanted to use it. But of course then we kept having boys, and I kept having boys, so like, I have to keep going back to the list of boy names. And of course there's some that were I like, but like my husband didn't like, or you know, there was I don't know, like there was one in particular that I did like, but he apparently knew somebody who was like really terrible who had that name.

00:28:59
Speaker 1: So I want to do that.

00:29:00
Speaker 3: If you heard him told us the specifics, you could have shared the name.

00:29:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, I will not, but you better not. Yeah, so then we just had to keep coming bck again we.

00:29:13
Speaker 1: Need another boys dam. We needed another boys dam. So yeah, it's but the thing is you never know like going it.

00:29:19
Speaker 2: Like if you knew from the get go, like, okay, you will have five children, it will be four boys and one girl who will be in the middle, you can sort of optimize based on that, but of course you don't know, like and so you can not our names or never can't influence the first name, and you don't even know how many names are going to be.

00:29:35
Speaker 3: And yeah, yeah, I feel like if you love a name, don't save it for later.

00:29:39
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, although if it's very strongly associated with one gender, I would probably not give it.

00:29:43
Speaker 3: To the other da Oh No, I didn't mean. Yeah, just be nice to your children, be nice to them. Well, my husband's name is going to be Jerushka if he was a girl. So it really always talks about how he is very glad he doesn't have a sister Jerushka.

00:29:58
Speaker 2: No, they must have gotten wise. Again, we have a name, we move on when we get a chance to use it. Sometimes we don't. These things happen, These things happen. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Five is a great number. I'm not sure if there was not a lot of thought.

00:30:14
Speaker 3: When they're like very strong, straightforward names.

00:30:19
Speaker 2: I like them as well. I like them as well. I mean I'm glad because I have to say them all the time. So let's see any fantastic anniversary celebrations. Well, you said you're doing Hawaii this time.

00:30:32
Speaker 1: What about the past?

00:30:33
Speaker 3: Hawaii this time? Okay, I'm gonna do like five ten, okay, all right. So for our fifth it was twenty eleven and I was trying to get pregnant so hard, right, Like I've talked about that, and we were like, oh, let's go to Hawaii if I don't get pregnant. But then I got pregnant, so we didn't go.

00:30:49
Speaker 2: Fine, not that you can't go to Hawaii when you are pregnant, but it was just an inopportunity.

00:30:52
Speaker 3: We were actually kind of like, no, now we need to save the money for daycare. Oh okay, you got it. And then for ten we went to French laundry. So that was super, super fun and I have vivid memories. Back then, there was no online system. You had to call them, and you would to call them at a specific time. So I'd have this time or go off at work at like I don't know one, it was some random time like one o'clock or something, and I had to dial and dial in dollar French lunch and French lure and I never succeeded. But we stayed at some nice hotels and I begged theever. I would call the hotels, oh how about now? How about now? And they had a cancelation on our anniversary, so we got to eat there. We actually went for the They have two seatings, or they did back then, like a lunch time one and a dinner. So we went to the lunch one and it was amazing.

00:31:33
Speaker 2: Now that's so interesting because they must have changed their system then between twenty sixteen and twenty nineteen, which is when we went, I.

00:31:38
Speaker 3: Think they did. I think they changed like a year or so after I did all that labor.

00:31:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I was say kind of, I just did it online.

00:31:47
Speaker 2: I remember that was I mean, it wasn't easy, but it wasn't like that.

00:31:51
Speaker 3: Yep, No, it was not easy. And then oh fifteenth, I don't think we did anything. I mean, I think we might have gone to like the Keys or something, but it was twenty twenty one and people weren't traveling as much then, and our kids were a little bit younger than they are now, And I just don't think we put in a ton of effort to doing anything super special. But twenty is gonna be amazing.

00:32:12
Speaker 1: Twenty is gonna be amazing. That is gonna be awesome. That's great.

00:32:15
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, gosh, I was pregnant for all of them until twentyeth put five.

00:32:21
Speaker 3: Kids due to your feet, by the way, like you were pregnant for all of them. Okay, So I don't think.

00:32:29
Speaker 2: I don't know what we did. Like in two thousand and nine, I was very very pregnant with Sam. I'm not sure if we did anything, probably did something September of twenty fourteen, I was pregnant with Alex. September of twenty nineteen with Henry, but we did go to French laundry for that one, so I had We were in California with the kids. We were traveling to Yosemite and Monterey Bay, and then we actually we were staying in that lodge that you have to book ahead of time in Yosemite, whose name escapes me right now, but it's the or something like that. Anyway, and we were there like we'd booked it for four or five nights, and then when I tried to get the French laundry reservation for after that, I couldn't and we got it for a night that was during our time in yuosebody, so we elected to just leave Yosemite. We kept our hotel reservation there like because we weren't going to give up that room. I think I put a note in the room in case somebody like thought we had gone hiking and gone missing, like if housekeeping came into it two days in a row and nothing was moved, like we are coming back, We are coming back, like, don't panic. But we just went and stayed like in a courtyard by married or something. No, it was like a I don't know, someplace like that. And the kids did not go to French laundry. I assumed they did not go to French laundry. We left them with a babysitter that we booked. There's some wine country nannies. I just want the name of it or something for a couple hours while we went to French laundry.

00:33:52
Speaker 3: Amazing.

00:33:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a good time, definitely a good time.

00:33:56
Speaker 3: And that was that was fifteen.

00:33:58
Speaker 1: It was fifteen.

00:33:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, we went in October last year to a Kadia and to run the half marathon through Bar Harbor, Maine and associated areas.

00:34:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we did that.

00:34:12
Speaker 3: Love it. So this is a reminder if you have a milestone at anniversary coming up, it is a great excuse to do something.

00:34:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, are you saying our favorite things?

00:34:23
Speaker 1: I guess so.

00:34:24
Speaker 3: Where Yeah, favorite things? I know we're ending it on a snappy note, but I feel like it's appropriate for a round Hends say episode. So my favorite thing is I don't know, just like he's super fun and he is very funny, Like we crack each other up being silly and It makes me feel almost like younger in a way, and I feel like I can pretty much tell him whatever I want. And I just feel like life is still kind of more fun when we do things together, kind of like I felt back in that winter break of two thousand and two or whatever it was. It is still generally true. Do I still enjoy my grow trips? Yes, I do, but I really like having adventures with him. They're a lot of fun.

00:35:05
Speaker 1: Yeah that sounds good.

00:35:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, Well, when things are going on, I think it's the Taylor Swift lyric.

00:35:10
Speaker 1: A best friend who I think is hot, right, what you're always going for?

00:35:15
Speaker 2: Such a good lyric? It is a good lyric, right, So that's what any marriage should be. Someone you are attracted to and think they are of good character. Anyone out here is single looking for someone, try and go for those two things. So I guess those are all questions. So that's our question for this episode. And Love of the Week it may as well, since this is all lovey dovey stuff, I guess that would have to be our husbands. Then yeah, they get Love of the Week this week. It seems as long as they're behaving themselves. If you guys are listening, so I don't know if does does Josh listen, I don't know.

00:35:48
Speaker 3: Actually, I think he listens sporadically depending on the topic. So I one is listening to this one?

00:35:55
Speaker 1: So hi, Hi? Yeah, exactly?

00:36:00
Speaker 2: Yes, Like I said, hopefully they're behaving themselves and if so, then they can be our love of the week.

00:36:05
Speaker 1: All right, well, this has been best of both worlds.

00:36:07
Speaker 2: We've been talking all things Valentine's Day, relationships, early dates, things like that. We will be back next week with more on making work and life fit together.

00:36:17
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you.

00:36:25
Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.