#205 - Rodney Clawson on his 24 No. 1’s, Coaching John Rich from Big & Rich + Finding Out His Nickelback Song Was No.1 In Other Country

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Speaker 1: I welcome to two oh five with Rodney Clawson, which I guess we've we have spenty real time together. We've met for the first time about six times, and people always like, this is Ronnie. I'm like, yeah, we've met like six times a lot through your wife. Um, because your wife and I have have become friends. But I would see I'd see you and I'd be like, hey, Ronnie, I'd be like, have you guys met, Like, we've only met, but we've met many, many times, so it's good to have you. We were going over some of your some of your stuff. We have a wall on the screen, Ronnie that we put everybody's songs on. We couldn't fit all your songs. You have so many number one songs. Well, I mean, I know there's people out there that have a lot more than me, but um, there isn't a right response, right, I just kind of let it hang in and see what they say. Yeah, that's what that's what therapist has me to do. So you guys just say thank you kind I'm shocked when I see it too, so I'm like, how on the hell did that happen? You know? And by and because each song the worth of it. We have of estimated you're worth a billion dollars, but all are you say over under a billion? I would say, will well over got it? That means worth two billions. Well, you are in the and I'll get off this, but you are in the elite three. We all we haven't something. We call the elite three artists that have the most number ones that have been on the podcast. And you are part of that. And if there was there, if there was a room, we'd all clap and probably give you a standing ovation. And there's not a trophy, but we'll mail one to you and may never come to you. But trust us, we we we don't know yet. We haven't actually invented it. We just say it and then we never send it out. Act something to hold you know what, I'll tell you what. It's a belt. It's a it's a championship belt. Yeah, you'll be receiving it in the mail. Just just watch for it. Um. So, what's interesting about your story is you actually we're writing songs and they were having a bit of success before you even moved to Nashville. So you were in in Texas kind of up in the Panhandle. Yeah, I got out of college and farm with my dad for fifteen years, and U had some connections here in Nashville and started, uh, started writing songs and had three or four three or four hits before I moved out here in two thousand and five, so I got I had got a publishing deal in two thousand and went back and forth for five or six years, and then my dad retired and I moved out here full time. So you got a publishing deal without living here, right, which which at least I don't know about then, But now that's pretty rare because part of the publishing dealing people sign you as they want to set you up on rights all the time. And if they're setting you up on a publishing deal, I guess was part of that that they wanted you to write not only in town, but to pay you to keep writing at home too. Yeah. I mean I would come to town one week a month and I would have, you know, half written stuff. I would write a few things by myself and uh, you know, had hey, here, here's a verse, and of course, you know, do you like it or not? And I wrote a few a few hits like that. You know, you were farming, you said fifteen years so you finished school. What kind of farm, uh, cornwheat, soybeans, a big center pivot sprinklers. You know in the Texas Panhandle where it reigns like fifteen inches a year, so it's almost desert. So you're living the country song, right, Yeah, I mean out of school, you lived the adult country song. Yeah. And I was the guy driving the tractor listening to the country songs that now we're trying to try to like plug in like, well the guy on the tractors. Understand it's the guy on the tractors, not maybe the core audience anymore. But but back when I started, it was I think, as you were writing songs while living on the farm and you're working, what's your what's your dad think about? Maybe the ambition that you had to be a songwriter. My what's funny is my family. My mom and dad aren't musical at all. So they were supportive, but I don't know if they even understood what I was trying to do, which I mean after I had had a publishing deal and had several hit songs, I would come back home. I would come to Nashville and right and come back home and they would say, like, you sell any songs this week then, I mean, and I explain the business to him so many times, and I don't to this day. I don't know if they still understand what I do. They they do know that my songs get played on the radio, though. And you grew up, like, what what town would you be closest to? I grew up five miles west of Groover, Texas. Okay, you gotta help me with groovy r U v R. It's ninety miles north of Amarilla. I tell people to get on, Get on I forty and go fourteen hours west and you'll hit Amarillo and then go ninety miles north. I know Amarella pretty but we just played a show in Amarella. Think about Amarella too? Is it that's the part of Texas that gets snow? Right? Yeah? Oh yeah, and it's about the only part of Texas that really gets snow. Yeah. We we've had some big snows. So you guys at seasons in Texas. So you finished school, you're you're you're working on the farm, you're writing songs, um are you like, I'm just trying to understand what that was like? Are you carrying a guitar as through the day's downtime, I would I would maybe on the tractor. I would get an idea in my head, and I mean, it's it's so different than what I do now because it's like we'll go you know, you go in and meet a couple of buddies, somebody has an idea. You try to write this song and like one day, well I had like weeks to work on an idea, like driving the tractor, you know. But I would mainly, you know, put stuff down with a guitar, like go home at night, you know, ten o'clock at night, going with a guitar and try to write like that too for a couple of hours. Where did that guitar, just the music come from? If your parents weren't musical or that that influence wasn't there every day? Um well, I mean I wasn't. I played piano growing up and I was in bandon choir, and I learned how to play guitar. Um. Probably I think I bought a guitar when I was maybe twenty years old later. Oh yeah, I mean I didn't try to write my first song until I was I think like twenty eight. Maybe it wasn't like four like most people like I was four and I wrote my first song. Yeah, well, my I had this. It's kind of a weird story that I I don't like to share it with people because it just sounds weird. But I had a friend of mine who left group of Texas and came out here to Nashville and went to Belmont and got in the publishing world out here, and she randomly called me. I hadn't talked to her in two or three years. Randomly called me one night and said, hey, you're a songwriter and you don't know it. And I was like, what are you talking about? And she was, uh, she said, I'm I'm hanging out with songwriters all the time here in Nashville and they all remind me of you. So you need to try to write a song and send it to me. So she was seeing you and other people. Yeah yeah, and so I mean it. My. It probably took me a year to write a song and send it to her, and it was horrible, but she like picked out a couple of lines and said that this right here, this is like, this is great, this is what you need to do, and did that for a couple of years, and then I knew, Um, I knew John Rich from Lone Star. I was his UH. I was his junior high basketball coach when I was going to college, really, and so I knew John. And he he was twelve and I was twenty. So I would go to class all day and then I would go coach at this UH. I went to West Texas A and M I would go to class. Then I would go coach at this Christian school and Amarilla San just sento Christian Academy and he was his dad as a Pentecostal preacher, so obviously his kid went to a private Christian school. So, um, I knew John. I coached John for three years. His parents got a divorce, ended up moving back here to Tennessee, and he would call me like once a year and'd be like, hey, coach, I'm working at I'm I'm roy a Cuff opery Land, you know, opery Land theme park. And then hey, coach, I'm in a band UH called Texas E which turned into Loan Star, you know. And then hey, and then the first time I ever came to Nashville, he said, Hey, coach, we're going in to cut our second record. You should come hang out in the studio. So I flew out here and he picked me up with the airport and I went to I think it was called the sound Shop. It was over there by the by the roundabout student little studio there, and walked in and Don Cook and Wally Wilson were producing the second Lone Star record. No, it was actually it was the first lone Star record. So I walked into studio and I heard, um, they recorded no News come crying to me, like your three hit songs. And I'm the first time in Nashville. An hour after I get off the plane, I'm in a studio watching Brent Mason and all these session guys cutting these songs that we're gonna become hit songs in the next year. It was like, I don't know, baptism by fire. I don't know what you would call that. But it was like, holy crap, you know this is cool. You know maybe I can do this. So let me let me back it up a second. That's such a good story. But let's go into John Richard the ball player. First of all, you as a ball player, let's let's just start there. If you're coaching, Uh, were you athlete as a kid? Yeah? I uh, I played, Um, I mean, I went, you know, small town people. I played basketball, football, ran track, played a year of college football. Quickly figured out that if I was ever going to get through school, I just needed to go to school. And uh so yeah, I mean, but you know, small town you do everything. I also did banned in choir too. So um but John was um pretty good basketball player. But he was five seven or five eight back in seventh grade and he's still five seven or but he was pretty good. But he was a five seven seventh grader. Was he playing like underneath? Was? He was just a good guard. He was like a forward. And then his position slowly forward into a ship. He moved I think in nine eighth or ninth grade he moved back here. So that was the That was it for my coaching him. So and you guys stay in contact, but I think is pretty cool. So you must have had some sort of impact on him in some way, even as a call. I mean, I'm still close fish with my high school football coach. You had a big impact on me, and so, you know, and about once a year I reach out and go, hey, I'm in Lone Star. I tell him the same thing. I just said, Hey, I'm in Lone Star. He never believes that. But so you come and you hopped to the studio and you see this. Now, are you thinking at that time when you see Lone Star cutting a record, that they're going to be something? Or are you like, wow, look at this guy that I note like trying to make something. I don't know what's happening here, um I or are you so overwhelmed by I mean it might have been their second record, they may have already had a hit. I can't. I mean you could probably research that. What what songs? Um come crown to me and um, what was it? It was like the there was another song? I guess My point is, is is that weird that John Richard made it? Is that weird that he made it as an artist made it? He's made it like three or I went through the whole deal with him. It was like he was in Lone Star, then he got kicked out Alone Star. Then he got a record deal and at our c A and I think he lost that record deal because he dunked Joe Galani in a hot tub. But they see him more and sout in Vega, what you don't want to do? What? No, that's the wrong thing. And then he ended up they started Music Mafia, and then he ended up with Big and Rich. So he's had like three different record deals and in between there he won um as CAPS Songwriter of the Year just as a songwriter, so that he was a he was a really you know, musically he was he was someone good to know and and good like, Okay, here's what I need to do, Here's what I don't need to do. As far as the songwriting part goes, cool, yeah, yeah, we uh we are. We write a couple of times a year. We had a cut on McGraw's last record called California that they ended up putting out on their own as a Big and Rich. But yeah, we still write some good songs together. So let's focus on timograwth on one second. Here are a couple of timograwl songs that you wrote. Here both went number one Let's do a Southern Girl from Tim McGraw Tolue little bit Crazy, and here is one of those nights another Tim of gaw number one street term. When you hear both of those, which one of those can you actually remember hopping into the room more? Which I remember both of those? Really? Well? Okay, Well, then let's do a Southern Girl. Southern Girl was um the first time I had written. When Jared Johnston and Lee Miller brought a big chunk of that song already written. I mean, hats off to Lee on that one, and we finished. We we took what he kind of had and finished it all the way out. He already had the road map on that one. And then Jared um to get home to his place and did like his cool little um he does. He still does garage band. He's never done road till. He's still moved up, has garage. But you would think it's it's pro tools because it sounds great. And he added that cool little post course thing like Southern girl rock that he he added that on his own after we wrote the song. So what That's what I'm telling you is I didn't have a whole lot to do with that one. But no, So when when he sent us the demo, Lee called me said, hey, what do you think about that post course thing? Like do you like that? And I was like, dude, I think that things it thinks it makes it big, that's what makes it a hit. And he's like really like Lee wasn't sure about it, but because it is a bit progressive, And then like I was gonna say, there's the effect that McGraw puts on it too here, which you know, I think McGraw what he's often done consistently but often done really right is do some cool, odd progressive things inside of very traditional country type music. And that was Jared did a kind of a version of that, and then Tim took it like a whole mother step into the kind of weird world with that little part, who's the artist that as you write, you feel like you right the best for for who like their sensibilities and what they're gonna pick and not who you have the most cuts with them? But but but you go man like their life and what they sing about or they they as an artist, like I get that. Who would you say that artist is for you? I would probably say Jason Aldan which four number one with Jason? And why do you think you and Jason kind of relate on a level? I mean, he he just he wants to cut those kind of you know, rock tinged, redneck driving down the back road, kind of out in the country kind of tougher songs, I feel, tractors songs too, Like when you talk about somebody writing a tractor like you know, a lot of my family are gowing up also worked on farms, and and I think about them, like driving the the freaking truck, the big truck, you know, if it's a dump truck or if it's a tractor like those Audine songs remind me of that. You got four and you're very first sever number ones with Jason right. Why here's here's Jason Aldean. Why he sometimes I wonder have to come down? Do you love? What's the story with this one? And not so much the writing of it, but because it was your first number one? How many how many cuts on the record until they put it out as a single? Um? That was the That was his UM. I think his second single he ever put out. Did you feel like when you wrote it, he cut it not knowing yet if it was gonna be a single that it would be a single. I didn't. I didn't have any idea, and I didn't have any idea Jason would be big. I mean, Michael Knox kept you know, run into him and he said, hey, man, we're gonna cut three your songs on Jason. I like, I knew Jason, but you just never know and uh Um. I wrote that song with John rich by the way and Vicky mcgeey, but John had um Hicktown, which was the first single. This was the second single, and this was a song that I was kind of a little bit of a head scratcher to me that I didn't really ever think it'd be a single because it's about a guy being mean to a girl and this song is like like almost like well I want to be nice to you, you know. And but for some reason women really liked the song. I don't I don't know. I'll run the audi and catalog of number one burning it down from Audine when you guys wrote this, because I remember we played this song on my show for the first time and again we talked about progressive type music and there's a lot of let you know, a lot of different kind of based, a lot of effects that that maybe Jason had used. Um. When you guys wrote it, you picture as that kind of song you write it straight ahead. We we wrote it more straight ahead. It had that underneath it, which I think those are the actual um the low end, like the base and the part of that groove is was tracks that they took from when we wrote that, but um, we had it more like rock and roll version of it with harmonies on it and stuff, and for whatever reason, they decided to take it the other way that the direct I thought they would take it even more the direction that we did it, but they took it the other way, which surprised me, and I was I was actually a little bit scared. I didn't I didn't know how people would react to that too, uh, to the way that they did it, but it was it was kind of ahead of the curve there a little bit. So yeah, and I think actually opened up a lot of doors for those kind of rocking country guys to experiment a bit with again some of that deep base, some of that super percussion type stuff. A couple more Outdeen tracks number one for you take a little ride and we'll go back to crazy Town. Here you go this, Yeah and still this is as far as Jason goes. Really one of those songs that when I think of Jason athing like, this is one of those songs that that to me kind of identifies him in my mind. So would you write crazy Town with you? Remember? Um? A guy named Brett Jones. Um, he's been in town for a while. He said, Um, I think he had a big McGraw cut. I mean a big, big McGraw number one back in the day. Um. But yeah, he called me up and and we got together and he had that idea and we wrote it and demoed it. And I mean it's like those two songs like take a Little Ride in crazy Town. That's just kind of like my wheelhouse. Um or it was for a long time anyway. Um, And Jason, that seems like it's kind of his will in his wheelhouse too. So does he ever hit you up? I go ahead, I need a song. We've done it right so many times. What you got? Um? I mean he I do have an put him into invitation to send him anything at any time. I have his number, but uh, like I don't have anything on the new record. So um, I've been uh recently, I don't know, I've just cant Maybe at some point I felt like I've written all those songs already, um man, I've I've been having a having a blast trying to write stuff for um Morgan wall In and have a couple on the new Dustin Lance record that's fixing to come out. There's a new guy over at Big Loud that's coming out named Ernest and uh Man. He's a He's a really great songwriter and fun guy write with. So there's some young guys that I've really been clicking with and you know, just trying to do something different, you know what's interesting to me. And again we'll get back to your catalog. We're not like I'll be able to touch it all. This is not the documentary like Oh Boy did eighteen hours. It could be. This could be that we could do like it's eighteen hour podcast documentary on your tracks, So don't be offenitive. We don't touch them all here. Um, okay, so this is this is nuts because I want a little deeper on you. And so you wrote a Nickelback song, Oh yeah yeah, which is crazy. So and you have another one another country with a Nickelback song, which Lullaby from Nickelback. Mike play me because I didn't know this song. I hope you're not offender, Rodney. All right, here we go. It went number one in Poland. Now do you go to the number one party in Poland? Is there one? You know? That's that's the first time I had no idea it went number one. We're breaking news here. Yeah, you can add another number one your list. It went number one in Poland. In the US, I went number fifteen on the rock chart. But in Poland you have a number one. You didn't have you ever seen the documentary, uh, searching for Silverman. That's what you are in Poland. You don't even know that. If you go back, you're this huge rock god. How wild would that be? Mike, He goes, but he didn't even know it. That's how many number ones he has. He didn't even know he's huge. Another country. Yeah, that was that was a fun one to write that because we'd never we had that. We got the opportunity to write with Chad Kroger because he was coming to town wont to write country stuff, and we just stumbled on that idea and he, uh, He's like, wait, this could be a Nickelback song. So then we went totally into like Nickelback world, like every line had to have the exact same syllables, in the exact same interim, in the same spot. You know that world. Um, but it was kind of the beginning of the end of Nickelback too. So it was in Poland, by the way, they were just blowing up so Nickelback is just endy. But tell me that Chad Kroker like he wanted to come in right country or be a country artist. No, no no, no, he just he He had actually had another song that had been a single I can't remember, that did pretty well on the soundtrack. Was it the um? No, he got a cut cut. Oh, he wrote a song for something else. I think he wrote a song with excuse me with Brett James that somebody cutting. I think it went top ten. So he was like, would come to town. And when you know, when Nickelback was in between records and and want to ride and we um we got to know Joey Moy through Chad, and I ended up calling jog Joey because I knew Joey was wanting to maybe start doing some country stuff. Um. I talked Joey into cutting a song on with UH that Jaco and had of mine, and Joey and I went in and cut that song on Jake and we ended up getting to finish the whole record together. And that was Joey's first country production in the US. And then the next thing he did was FG so so that the whole Chad thing turned into the f gl Joey moy thing. That's kind of wild how it all shakes out. Yeah, what song did you write where someone goes, I don't think that's it, And then it ended up kind of digging its way through it ended up being a big hit. Maybe don't call anybody out here, No, I'm searching for that. But someone goes. You know that, Ronnie, I don't think this is this is got much got legs to it, but you believed in it ended up doing something or none of them. There's also good immediately when they hear them, like my ears are just I don't know, I can't. I mean usually it's more of the other way. I'm going like, this is a hit, this is a hit, it's not. You know, which of your songs were you most surprised that it was a smash um because I can rattle some of these off, man, I would say, um, I would say, justin moo, we're letting an not roll. That surprised men, because I don't know. I just didn't he he Hadden up to that point. Cut anything kinda that was a little more were progressive for him, and we wrote it together. But I just didn't think you would you know, I thought it would be kind of at the back of the pack, you know, for singles for him, So that one surprised me. So, you know, sometimes I have buddies who will go you know, when I wrote this song four years ago and heard about it and forever, and then all of a sudden, I get a call like, hey, we're gonna cut this song. Do you ever have any of those that kind of get stashed away for a bit or just kind of float around and somebody goes, you know, I was going to do some songs and found this one I've had. Um, I actually just had. That happened with two different artists, Um and knock on Wood. I don't know if either one of them will end up making the record. But Kenny Chesney has a song for his new record that he cut in two thousand and fifteen and it didn't make the record, and about a year ago he called up me and David Lee Murphy. He said, hey, man, I still love this song, but the first verse isn't right. Can you rewrite the first verse? So we went in and rewrote the first verse, and then I think Kenny and and David Lee Murphy out on the road rewrote it again, and um, Ken he just played it for me out in l A and he's he's excited about it. So I think it has a decent shot at making the record. But that song was originally cut four years ago. And then I had the same thing happened with Keith urban So and both tracks aren't out yet. Keith I wrote a song with Asty Gourley and Keith, and Keith cut it four or five years ago, and then about a year ago he told me he had re cut it. And then about six months ago he told me he said, man, the mix turned out really good. But who knows if it will end up making the record. But it's funny that song just like pop back up four years later. You bring up Kenny Chesney. Have you been writing with Kenny? Um, just a little bit. I've only written with him a couple of other times, um, and then just got to go out to California and write with him. Um. Just I mean basically just trying to write up tempos for Disney record. So so what is that like? Does he you go everybody, we're gonna fly you out, or do you have does he book you a ticket? Or do they get to push on they we we bought our own tickets, got us the house, but it was on Malibu Beach, so it was a badass. So we got you guys a house, and how many of you move into the house? Um, there were six riders, and so you go in and then is he a part of that? Yeah? Or do you guys just kind of run and do your thing and he checks out? We we would split up and half of us would go right with Kenny and half of us would stay at the house and try to ride Kenny Chesney up tempo. And we did that for three days. And how how does that turn out? It turned out great. So when I mean, when you know, like here's where you know Kenny Kenny's up tempo, you know there's kind of a you know where the lines are on that and what to keep it between. For the most part, and all three of my Um Kenny singles have been up tempo, So I guess that's why I got the call um. But he uh, I mean, you know kind of what the what he wants. So if you sit down and there's no reason to do anything else, it's kind of four. It's kind of good because everybody's looking for an up tempo all the time, so it forces you to have to write. Here is American Kids. It's one of the one of your bagels with Kenny Well, this is a monster, like just some when I think of my time in Nashville, which has been about six plus years, this is one of the monsters that kind of just crept up. I remember seeing the album art. It was like a bus on the sand or something, or with blue sky behind it. I'm just going from memory here and I was like, okay, well let's see what Kenny has got and this one just smashed. Yeah, it was. It was a fun when this This is one of those kind of unicorn songs that you don't you don't see it coming and you've never written a song like that, and no matter how hard you try afterwards, you can't. You know, it's you can't write another one. What does it feel like when you finish that, when you finish the song that ends up being amazing? Do you feel amazing when you're done with the writer or is it just like, oh you did you? That was with Shane mcinnally and Uclared and when we finished that song, we were like, holy crap, who do we We need to be very strategic about who we send it to first, because somebody that gets it that you may not think would have as much success with it because of who they are, could actually hurt the song. Right. That's interesting because you do you don't want to have a free for all, because some artists that maybe doesn't have a prominent place at a label where they'really gonna put the money behind promoting them could get the song. Well yeah, yeah that and you know, and another artist that it just might not be the right song for. We'll think that's a big old hit song and they'll try to do it, but it might not, you know, it might not be there in the you know, in their strength category doing a song like that. But it was kind of a it was kind of one of those, you know, a little bit down a different path for Kenny. He had never cut anything with that kind of a field before, and yet it sounded like it sounded like he'd always done a song like that. Yeah, it's still sounded when I remember hearing that song, you knowing, well, this is a bit different, but it's very Kenny. At the same time, it didn't feel like he was trying to tackle some new musical ground. And again I think a lot of that too was the packaging of the song, like it just all the way around the video the yard, you know how Kenny was talking about this song. Yeah, and and we got to all go in and sing on it too. We did all the I mean us and our wives and other people went in and you know, one one day and did a bunch of the background vocals on this. So that was cool to get to have a part of it like that too. And I would say probably I know his get along song that he just said out last year, which is I love that song. I think it's a great song. It's to me, it was kind of like an American kid cousin, which Shane wrote it. But that's yeah, it's probably the you know, four or five years later, it's another it's like a you know, a distant cousin to American kids. But when I heard it, I was like, oh, yeah, Shane, Shane was able to kind of catch that groove again. So tell me if this is true. You wrote Sunshine and Summertime specifically for Kenny but ended up being a top five for Faith. So how do you write a song specifically for someone? Like how did that come into you to write that song. Um, well, we had that idea, just in the idea and the feel of it. And once again that was with John Rich and uh, it just sounded like when we got through I mean when we when we uh, when knew Kenny was cut and we could we had people who could just you know, hand the song to him or buddy and we um had that idea and we tried to write it for Kenny. And so when he says it's not for me, or maybe it doesn't get back to you that it's not for him, not sure, No, I mean we got somebody you know, he passed on it. Okay, So then do you go, well, let's just see who likes it, or do you then target Faith well, because it seems quite the transition to go from Kenny Big Big and Rich was opening was on the road, Um, they were opening for Tim and Faith tour and I think John handed it to Faith. So I kind of have the inside track on that. Yeah, like that, that's a good one. Which on that record, John had Mississippi Girl, which is the first single, and then he had this single also, I just you know, I have so many of your songs up here at do you have to sometimes study what songs went number one until you can remember. Because I and you know you're being humble. I'll give you. I'll relate just a bit. I've written a couple of books, and sometimes I forget the stories wrote in my books, and people will bring them up and be like, hey, and I know the stories because I'm from my life, but I have to like see what I wrote again. I wonder to remember. This is like times ten with all these songs. Do you ever just look at it before you hop in and be like, oh, yeah, that's right, I wrote Blake Shelton should be cool if you did, you have to freshen up. Um. I mean I have a pretty good memory of which ones went number one on which ones didn't. Do you have a room in your house while your plaques, yeah, I mean I do, but they're rapidly becoming more of my wife's plaques in mind, So, which is also an interesting wrinkle into this. So Nicole Galleon, your wife, Nicole Clawston, whichever you know, uh Galleon, since we're yeah music, yeah, of course. Um, you guys don't write together that often. We were. We ride maybe once or twice a year. That's not that often when you go home, I'm sure you have to talk about music a bit like, Hey, how did day go? Um? You know what songwriters you guys like writing with? What songwriters you don't? Um? How what's that competitive feeling there? We talked, We talked about music all the time. But we've kind of strategically over the years. Um, just because it's so when we first got when we first got married, I'd had quite a bit of success and she hadn't you ever even had a cut? She had she had, Um, she got a publishing deal right after we got married. So we strategically she kept her name, and we strategically tried to write with other people because, um, if we if we wrote a song together, and I've seen it happen with other couples, if we wrote a song together, people would just presume that it was me, even though she's she's awesome and she I mean, she's doing way better than me right now in the last couple of years. UM. So just as far as career building and branding and all that goes, UM, we tried to We tried to help I tried to help her build her career to where if she had success, she would get the credit for it, and we've been lucky enough. It's it's worked out that way. So what is her favorite song that you have written? And I must switch it up after this and ask you the something about her, But what is her favorite song that you have written? Mm hmm, She's like, man, that's the one I love. That's why I fell in love with you, because you wrote crash My Party from Luke Bryan. How's that a bar and play? I would guess, um, I would guess either I saw a guy today or American kids. Okay, if you ask her that, So George Straight I saw God today? Number one? Boy? What a big one? What I mean? How about getting George Straight to sing words that you thought in your mind? That's a yeah. I mean that's a thing. When I grew up in Texas and I've never That's the only George Straight cut I ever got because I, like I said, I wrote stuff that I felt like my wheelhouse was like Jason al Dean and so you know, I never thought I would get a George Straight cup. So that was that was pretty amazing. That song, by the way, c m a Single of the Year and was not only for Best Country Song at the two thousand nine Grammy Awards. And although all that happened, I would argue, and again I don't really come from a good place to argue this, but just having George Straight cut a song would be as equal to actually getting a CMAS Glove the Year nomination, like or or an award. Would you rather let me bring this down? Would you rather have random artist you he sings a song that you have written and it wins for CMA Single of the Year, or gett a George Straight number one without that that award you win the award? I would say, George Straight, George Straight number one. I'm glad you said that. I like you better because you did. Just just let you know. Uh here, I need you to con miss me on something because I haven't started it yet. But Succession is what my co host is watching. What you here A lot of friends talk about. You're watching the show? The show okay, one of my favorite shows. Tell me why I will would like Succession, Like, what what is the deal? Like, what's the hook of this show that's gonna make me go? All right? That's my show? Um, I think it's got I think it really has great acting it's got great. Um, the script storyline has been really great. What's it even about. It's about um billionaire multimedia family like yours. So that's why it did. You see a lot of your family and get it um anyway that the dad had. There's four kids, they're all you until they've all been brought up kind of spoiled trust fund kids, and they think dad's about about to pull the rip chord, and they're all angling to try to position to see if they can get the company. But they're all every every characters like flawed. There's not one redeeming character in the whole thing. And you like the show, I love you like enough to recommend it to me, Like, alright here, I publicly highly recommend it. I quit. I quit watching Billions when Succession came on because I was just like, which, the first couple of seasons of Billions was really good, but like by season three it was just kind of like you could tell like they'd only thought the storyline out through a couple of seasons, and when when I watched the first couple of episodes of six Session, it was just like Billions was such a letdown. At that point, I was quit watching it. So I'm gonna as I forgot to ask this side of this question, what's your favorite song that Nicole's written to ended up being a big one? Um? I would say automatic, early, yeah, early for her? Why why that? Why that song? I don't remember the not she she brought that song home and she played me that when she played me the demo of it, and I kind of got teary eyed and I was like, you did it, you did it. That's a smash. That's the number one song. And we didn't even know, you know, if it would make Miranda's record at that point, but it was. I mean, that's a no brainer. When you hear it, it just sounds like a big old hit song. Your son and I know this because not to brag on both of us, but we're both in the Country music Call of Fame right now. As an exhibit. UM, I have my exhibit and you have an exhibit. It's you, your son, Brad, and Nicole, and you're all in this together. We were all at the big award, you have the big opening ceremony. UM. So your son has a number one as well up down Morgan Wallen, what kind of advice do you give him? First of all, not day to day, but were you ever like, I don't know about this long right, because I would never want somebody that I know to get involved in what I do. I try. I I did everything I could steer um in other directions. But with the success that I was having, it was hard for me to say, no, you can't, this is impossible, you can't do this, because you know I was. I was doing it. So. Um, when he told me he wanted to be a songwriter, he was. He was working at the north Face store at the Mall and Valley and cars at the Omni Hotel downtown. He was probably he just gotten out of college. He's probably twenty four, and um, he said, I think I want to be a songwriter. Dad. And so I had a pro tools rigg in my office that I had kind of started using and quickly figured out like I should probably just stick to writing songs and not waste five years in my life trying to figure this out. Um, I said, hey, there's pretels rigged up in my office, come by and get it. And and I basically told him like, if you want to write songs, start writing songs. And we kind of played played his deal the same way that we did with Nicole. I didn't you know. I told him, I said, I could walk you could write twenty songs. I could walk you into publisher and get you a deal just because of my track record. But that doesn't help you any at all. Like we could write every day and you could get some cuts, but that wouldn't doesn't help your career, Like as far as the longevity um and your brand, that doesn't help you. So he kind of, you know, he went out there and he found his buddies. He write songs, and he built his friend group and he's in the he's in this whole young wave of guys. You know. He wrote that song with Michael Hardy. He's uh got another buddy named Grantly James that they've just been killing it. They've got two or three cuts on the Christ Jansen record that's fixing to come out. I think they have the title cut, Um Blake, Chris and Blake the Real Friends, Real Friends. Yeah? Is that genetic? Or did he see you do it? Like? How does that even happen? I don't know. I mean, our personalities are a lot of like we're kind of laid back and kind of you know, we can hang out in the ring with people. So walk me through. What's the key to writing a great opening line? Like is there something where you're going? All right, we gotta start this song strong, Like, what what's the key to writing a great opening? Because this is the Country Songwriter's Podcast, they're all listening. I get so many message from people, one trying to get on this and the two going. I love when you have people on that actually talk about the weeds of songwriting. So an opening line of us, how important is it? It's it's very important, and it's hard to It's hard to do. UM. You always try to kind of you know, it just depends on the song. Sometimes you go for a little bit of shock values. Sometimes you go for the um trying to set up the hook here early in the song. People won't real until you until you get down to the chorus, they won't realize what that first line of the song was about. Like Fast, let's go back to Fast, all right, Luke Bryant. Fast. You know that song kind of goes all over the place, right, like it's a lot of It starts out with the title of the song, go ahead. The first line song is Fast. That's the kind of car you want. That's the kind of car you want when you're eight team fast. That's the kind of boys that you want on the home team that That's the only song I've ever written that has the title all through the the verse. Let's hear this. Let's make sure you're telling the truth. There you go. You got me telling her? All right? Let me switch it up. Then I was gonna pick one of random up here on the list of ten million songs. How about Blake Shelton Drink on It? You remember the first line of that song? Um, I just thought of the first line, of course, sure be cool? She did, all right, I don't. I don't remember the first line of drink on it? What's the first line of should be cool? If you did, I was gonna keep it real, act chill, lock, only have a drink or two? Okay, So talk about that in a room. How does that? What does that started? You get to start with the title, the idea and then kind of work back and explain that to me. Well, we had the we had the idea which came from Dazed and Confused, the movie Matthew McConaughey, were um a drink? Are you telling the truth. I don't doubt you anymore. I don't know you got me. There was a there was a part in the movie where Matthew McConaughey's like driving a car. He looks in the backseat as this kid if he's got any any weed, and they kiss said, oh, man, um, I don't have any, and Matthew McConaughey's, man, it'd be a whole lot or if you did. And that's where we got the idea for the song. And I had actually written that idea down a couple of different times over the years, and it just seemed to be that day Chris I told that I do that idea out to the room and Chris toomp He was like, man, what if we write it like and he kind of figured out the angle on it, and then and then some we had the angle for the chorus, and then we went back and uh so the first verse is about a guy basically like man, I was just planning on coming out and having one drink tonight, but just kind of sets up the hook like a how who did you see? Early on it started as a writer or was writing before they get the artist deal. That ended up being a big deal, big star an artist or song Yeah, an artist an artist because most we'll start with a publishing deal and come down to write songs and learn how to write for themselves and you get in a room and there early. But then they ended up being a big star later that when when you met them, they really weren't. Um, I would say. I mean Luke Bryan. I wrote with him right um, right about the time. It's his uh now, his first single hadn't come out, but he had had as a writer, he had had good directions on Billy Currington, and we wrote a couple of things. Um. I think one of those songs made his second record maybe, Um. But he was you know, he was just writing and he had a record deal and he you know, had a single fixing and come out. But you you know, you had no idea whether he was going to be bigger or not. So but we've written off and on over the over the last fifteen years. So when he when you're writing with him, are you like, I guess pretty sharp he is. I mean most of the most of these guys are you know, they're like I don't know if you would say they're in there as a whole their genius personalities, but they have parts of their personality that they're like borderline genius and and that's why they're so good at what they do. I mean, I mean the crazy thing for me is like riding with Luke that first time. I would have never thought I would ever seem on TV on American Idol. Would be like, He's just he just keeps surprising everybody with what he can do. He walks into a room and it's like, oh, that got a star. You can tell you just even in the room because I work on auto with him, and even in the room where there's a lot of stars, Luke is the dominant force in the room because he just comes in. And I'll say this about Luke to heat, Luke and I are basically to the wrong time every time. You know, everybody gets there at their own. First of all, Holly was way different than Nashville. Like when it's one thirty and the call times one thirty. First of all, I'm gonna be there because I'm by far the least star of the whole thing. But Luke is there too, and he's like, all right, let's go to work. It's like, as much as you know Luke is now a big star and and playing you know stadiums. The dude shows up at one third and he showed up back back then too, when he didn't have much going on. He showed up on time. You know. Was were you ever wanted to be an artist? Is that everything for you? I want to? I mean I was a little bit. I mean, like I said, when I first started coming to Nashville, I was in my thirties already, and I never you know, I'm not the people that I've known that wanted to do it. It's almost like you gotta be willing to sell your soul the devil to do it, you know. And I was never that. I was like, oh, you know, every once in a while, I'd becoming maybe I should won't try to be an artist, but like, that's definitely not. You have to have way more fire behind it than that. So I I love songwriting, I love staying in town. I loved to hunting fish. I tell people I'd rather spend a hundred and fifty days a year on my boat, not on a bus, which I rarely get to spend time on my boat anymore. But I wanted every town. I have this imaginary land of you just dominating all um. How about you ever written a song and realized that you act? And I'll preface it by saying this before it seems any sort of accusation. I sometimes will write jokes and go, oh, I can't do that joke because I think I was inspired by another joke. I didn't even realize that when I wrote this joke, And I go, I can't go out on stage and do it because I didn't do it on purpose. But I think, if I'm looking back, I probably heard Chris Rock or someone do a joke that inspired this joke, and I go, gotta pull it. Not sure if I gotta pull it. That ever happened with a song where you go, oh, didn't do it on purpose, but I think I might have been influenced. And what do you do in that case? You just have to be diligent. You know, if you think, like, oh, crap, I'm on something I've already written or somebody else, that somebody else might have said something I'm you know that they might think I got this idea from them. He's I mean, that's the thing too. That's not even stealing a song. That's just somebody else talking, huh, get on the phone, talk to him. Figured out, Um, I had one song one time that we finished. We went in, we demoed the song. I brought it home. I'd already I'd already sent it to I think. I sent it to Dirk's Bentley and he liked, He's like, dude, I love that. I want to hold it. And I got home and I played it for Nicole. I said, hey, listen to this song. I sent it to Dirks and he loves it, and she said, that's a Darius Rucker song. And I went back and it was. It was I can't remember what single it was, but it was literally the chorus was like note for note a Darius Rucker song. And I had to call Dirks and say, hey, that we're all over the top of a Darius song. I didn't realize it. Let me try to, let me try to tweak the melody out to change it so it's not on top of a Darius song. And then and then that that was the end of it, you know, because then it's not the same anymore. That just kind of runs it. So why do you think that happens? Do you think that that's our subconscious storing something. We just kind of fall on it, or did you accidentally fall on it? You think, Oh I I yeah, i'd probably heard the song and it just came back out. I mean, I, I mean, I definitely didn't didn't say like, hey, let's write a song like this Darius song. I just didn't. I'm maybe maybe I heard it on the radio on the way into town and it was in there and it came back out. I don't. I don't know, but you gotta be diligent about it. And when you when you think, you gotta communicate with people about it too. If you think you're on top of somebody or you gotta get on the phone and talk to them. And they might still be pissed, but they're not gonna be nearest pissed as they would be if they found out and you didn't tell them. So well, then I should let you know that. Um. I wrote a song yesterday called that I Met a bartender. It's a little sounds a little similar to yours, but I'm glad we're having this talk right now because there's a number one of yours bartender. UM, it's not not exactly the same, but it's Yeah, I met bartender. Yeah, it's it's it's just it's again. Some people would confuse it if they heard it, but just me to you, it just happened to fall out. But listen, you have all these Luke Brian drunk on you, Luke Brian fast Look Brian crashed my party. Florida Georgia line, dirt Florida Georgia line, gets a shine on, shine on Florida Georgia line. Around here, lady a bartender. Big and Rich lost in this moment. By the way, their first number one. How about that? Coming back you right, John Richards first number one and Big and Rich after you were as basketball coach. That was pretty cool. Yeah, and they had had that song for a while. We wrote that song with Keith Anderson, who also had a record deal and was having hits at the same time, and neither one of them cut it for their first record, and then when it rolled around time for record two, they both cut it, and then they were kind of in a race to see who could get it out first. So it's funny. That's a song that sat around for three years and nobody wanted it, and then all of a sudden, two different people were kind of fighting over it. So we're gonna end with this. I give you three random questions we have here. I gotta do is answer to these to the best that you can, and we'll move on with light. What is the last movie you saw in theaters? Uh? Tarantino movie Thewood Mike, you saw that? Huh? Yeah, it's a good movie. Did you like it? I'm gonna go watch The Joker tonight. Have you seen Joker yet? No? I guess that would be the answer if you had stupid question. But it looks good. Yeah, I know, Okay, what is Let's just what's one thing under hundred under a hundred bucks? Everyone should own one thing under a hundred bucks that everyone should own. Oh man, that's a tough one. You know what My new one is? Squatty? Yeah, yeah, I have one downstairs. This is not an endorsement. I was just thinking about, you know, in my head, like, what would I recommend right now? Not the most glamorous thing to recommend, By the way, you don't want to talk about taking a dump, right That's not something that really is like. But yeah, I would not throw the squatty potty out there is if I'm jumping in this the thing nder a hundred bucks that I think everybody should. Yeah what he got? I got some shorts. I have some workout shorts. I think they're called ten thousand. I think they're like seventy bucks. That's workout shorts up every line or an them already. You know that there was a swimming trunks riding and sorry they feel like panties. One wasten this one time running talk the shorts of the liner. I was I gotta have a pool back here, and I was in the pool. I was swimming around, and I was like, what is that feeling? And so I read I'm so stupid, I'm very telling the story. I reach in and I forget I have some trunks on, and that line or you know, it feels like, you know, soft, and I felt it and I was like, oh my god, did I put on some girls panties? And I didn't realize it. And for a minute I was like, oh my god, oh my god, I can't believe I'm wear inside. But it was a liner. It's a really trivial story, but that's a that was a real life thing that happened to me. I thought I had some girl panties on. They got mixed up Withers can feel weird sometimes, but sometimes they can feel like the compression shorts that you put on when you work out. There was no compression here. This was just panty. This is a straight panty. One final thing, let's go the last concert you had to buy tickets for? Last concert I had to buy tickets for would have been um when the Eagles came to town with vents. Yeah, it was that the year before last, about a year and a half ago. I went to about Bridgeton. Yeah, and you bought tickets because because I don't know, you don't know anybody, anybody in the well. Listen, we've we've we've we've done it, We've talked about it. Rodney Lama on Instagram? How active are you over there? Um? I tried to post at least once a week, so, which is pretty good for someone my age, I'd say, which is about like one tenth of what my wife. I don't know if one tenth is fair. She's she's the greatest on Instagram. Rodney, why why Lama? That's back to John Rich. She used to call me the Rodney Lama because spit on them kind of calm, Dolly Lama Rodney lama Um. I don't even know if that's the religion or not, but yeah, I think they all down this Rodney lam is dismemorable. Yeah, all right, well there that you have more songs and we could fit on the wall, so that should be your biggest honor. We're gonna send you the championship belt that we talk check the mail like so when recording this. It's on the eleventh, but start checking your mail about the twenty every day, go out to the mailbox, check your mailency if that championship belts there. Okay, can we send it to the top three. I'll post it on my Instagram when you get it posted, and then we'll all right. That's it. We really appreciate Listen. We recorded this on a Friday, and you know, I know that you're a busy person and this I was literally intent like a day and a half. So I'm so glad that you you agree to come over and do this. I'm big, I'm busy, but I'm not near as business not accurate. However, I'm very appreciative of you coming over on a Friday and doing this with me, something we've been looking forward to for a while and I know you and I've been in passing many times, but now we have many things to talk about next time we see each other. When I watched Succession and go, dude, you were right? Or why did you make me buy all those episodes? What network is that on? Already? Have it? Already? Have it? Okay, alright there, alrighty there is Rodney Clausen at Rodney Lama on Instagram. We'll see you guys next time.