The Positive Side of Porn with Dr. Ian Kerner

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi Amber, Hi Lola, Welcome to an Unlikely Affair. Hello, my loves, We're back with an unlikely affair.

00:00:12
Speaker 2: Hi Amber.

00:00:13
Speaker 3: I always hate when you're through my screen. I know, I know you look hot today by the way I do. Yeah, I'm trying.

00:00:23
Speaker 2: I'm really trying.

00:00:24
Speaker 4: I figured what if I FaceTime avoid today, I'm gonna need him to finally see me with a face on instead of just always in a bed.

00:00:33
Speaker 3: I don't know why, yeah, but you're beautiful either way.

00:00:35
Speaker 2: Well, you gotta let him know. Here's the thing.

00:00:37
Speaker 4: I always say, you need to FaceTime them when you're like in your unwind moment, no makeup on, because it's better for them to see you that way for like the first time and then glamed out because they're like, oh shit rather than oh shit.

00:00:57
Speaker 3: You know.

00:00:58
Speaker 4: I'm like, here you go, this is me in my truest form. If you're not attracted to it, I suggest you go bye bye.

00:01:07
Speaker 2: No, you're good, It's all good. You're good too. How are you this morning? Fired the fuck up? Let's go baby, Yes, room room.

00:01:18
Speaker 3: I'm like, I didn't even have a full cup of coffee and I'm ready to like.

00:01:23
Speaker 2: Start launching grenades.

00:01:25
Speaker 4: Oh Yeah, the cockroaches are alive and fucking well at all.

00:01:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are. I know what is that?

00:01:33
Speaker 3: I posted something the other day and it said my personality is mother Teresa or somewhere between mother Teresa and motherfucker. So now every day I want you to say, is this my mother Teresa or is this motherfucker? I say, I'm that.

00:01:50
Speaker 4: Well, today's a great day to be that, especially because we're like talking about sex. I love that we're having a sex therapist who's a man, because I've had sex therapists on in the past, back when it was give them La la, and it's always female, which is great, Like, I too could use a few tips and tricks. And you know, she said the number one thing that women needed was lube, and I was like, wow, I thought I was good in that area, but you know, like God given lube, but apparently I need the man made as well because it's life changing and it is.

00:02:22
Speaker 2: So today I'm super excited.

00:02:24
Speaker 4: Okay, So I have to tell you one thing before we before we jump into the episode.

00:02:29
Speaker 2: Right, I've never been in this situation before.

00:02:31
Speaker 4: So I've been single for four and a half years, right, and like when I started dating you, and I have talked about this. I kept attracting men who would like love bomb me and then disappear, and I was like, oh, we got to do some work because we're attracting people who are not good for you and toxic. So finally, as we talked about on the last episode or maybe a couple ago, I was like, this is the year that I'm going to open myself up and be open to putting my guard down and welcoming love because I deserve that. So I'm talking to this guy and he's quite a bit younger than me, and we're trying to figure out when we're going to see each other. So we're like on FaceTime, trying to coordinate schedules whatever, and he was like, you know, you could come out here or I'm more than happy to come out there. I just don't know what your situation is. And I was like, like living situation and he goes, yeah, because I know you have kids, and I said yes, as you know, like I share one, but my other is like here full time, full time resident baby and he goes yeah, he goes, I can get a hotel. I just don't know if I would be ready to meet your kids. Yet like I think that might be weird so soon when I tell you, I wanted to jump through the phone and fuck him up, as if you would have the luxury of meeting my children, and as if you would even have a say and whether you do, like right, right, right.

00:04:00
Speaker 2: So that's age too. He's young. He doesn't know.

00:04:04
Speaker 3: His brain's not fully developed yet. Twenty seven, not even.

00:04:08
Speaker 4: Twenty he's not even twenty seven, Like he just barely lot.

00:04:10
Speaker 3: Of his Lawsah, I'm sitting here and I'm like, don't laugh, turning red.

00:04:18
Speaker 2: Is he still breastfeeding? I would breastfeed him. He's so high. I know you would.

00:04:24
Speaker 4: He's so high and fucking big and just sexy.

00:04:29
Speaker 2: Anyway, Oh, I love this for you.

00:04:31
Speaker 4: But I could tell he was trying to backtrack sort of because like you, you could feel my energy.

00:04:36
Speaker 2: Shift, like in my head. I was like, fuck this guy. I'm never speaking to him again.

00:04:41
Speaker 4: But I wanted to like relax and take I was having an out of body experience, right, And I'm like, okay, the intention. I've been talking to him for a little bit, and I know his intention. He's more than happy to have uncomfortable conversations, real honesty and again, I don't know him super well, but I had to focus on the intention behind it, right. But I like as after he said it, I started like laughing in a passive aggressive way, and I was like, you and I have only been talking for a little bit, and although I think you're a wonderful person so far, I would never allow you around my kids. I was like, I, ah, no way, priorities. They are my number one. I am very protective of them. You would never be welcome around them. And I think he was like, like you could tell his mind was going like never is a strong, a very strong word which I love to throw around. I'm like, I'll never date a man ever again. And here we are talking about a man. But I've never experienced that before where we have to have that conversation.

00:05:49
Speaker 3: I mean, I think what I'm hearing from you is that you went into mama bear mode. You know, like your kids will always be your priority. When you're a full time single mom and you have your kids the majority of the time, how do you mix this in? How do you find time for sex life, how do you go out on dates? How do you juggle all of these things?

00:06:09
Speaker 2: I don't know. I didn't have the answer.

00:06:11
Speaker 3: I wish someone would tell me the answer because I'm still trying to figure it out.

00:06:14
Speaker 2: But it's hard.

00:06:15
Speaker 4: It's very hard. And we continued the conversation. He was like, you know, I've never talked to a woman or been with a woman who has kids before, so I think I would struggle to find my place again. He's very young, and he was like, you know, when I think about it, I would think that, like I see myself in the father role. But if they're not my kids, but I'm in a father figure role, there's a boundary because I'm not.

00:06:45
Speaker 3: The actual dad. And I was like, you have to stop. I was like stop. I was like, I'm not.

00:06:51
Speaker 4: Looking for anyone to fulfill a father figure role. In fact, I'm actively trying to get rid of father's That's why I have any donor. Like the whole point of having a donor baby is so that this conversation doesn't need to be had.

00:07:06
Speaker 3: Don't worry about it, right, right, don't worry about it. I had that conversation the other day. I literally told someone, I said, listen again, I'm not looking and this wasn't the chef, this was someone else. I'm not looking for a dad for my kids, Like I had this dynamic when I was dating the guy after. I wasn't there too parent. I was there to be like an extra support system in any way. I don't want to parent anyone's kids. I'm good and I don't want anyone at the end of the day, no one telling me how to raise my kids. That is my biggest pet peeve. If you want to put something in the freaking suggestion box, I'll consider it, but I don't need you intervening. I don't need you to tell me what I'm doing right or wrong. It's like, I'm good, Thanks buddy, Thanks buddy, Thanks buddy.

00:07:56
Speaker 4: It's the one area in my life where I'm like, I'm crushing this, so kindly, fuck right off.

00:08:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, right right.

00:08:06
Speaker 4: There's a lot of areas in my life where I'm like, a lot of tweaking could be done. Motherhood, I fucking got this, yeah for to do for today.

00:08:16
Speaker 2: You never know that could change.

00:08:18
Speaker 3: No one's perfect, No one has a manual on how to raise kids. It's it's this is all. We're just doing the best we can. And I'll tell you something, We're doing a really good damn job.

00:08:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:08:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, So too. It's not perfect, it's not linear. It's a lot of growing pains, and whenever tsually is different.

00:08:35
Speaker 4: The moment you think you're crushing it with one, you have a second, and they require a whole new set of parenting skills that you're like, holy shit, how did this happen?

00:08:42
Speaker 2: Who are you? I don't know what to deal how to deal with this situation.

00:08:46
Speaker 4: It's a constant, but I just it was very interesting to venture into this new phase where I'm having those conversations, and you know, I rounded back on it because then I started taking it as a personal attack on me, and I was like, I just have to ad like we had been talking now we were off this subject, and I was like, I just it's kind of bothering me. Do I strike you as the type of woman that would just bring a man around my.

00:09:16
Speaker 2: Kids like that?

00:09:17
Speaker 4: And he was like no, I wasn't trying to say that. There was no winning for him in that. Here's the thing.

00:09:24
Speaker 3: I think that you just got triggered and you did something you paused, which was fantastic. You composed yourself and you said it in a kind but firm way back to him, and if he respects you then he would be okay with that, right, And how whatever way you want to lead, Are we still talking to this guy or do we put him to the side?

00:09:46
Speaker 2: Did we bench you?

00:09:47
Speaker 4: We didn't bention him because I could throughout the rest of the conversation there were little things that he was saying where I could tell that his intention was not He wasn't trying to offend me, you know. And there are times where I say things and people focus on how I said it, and I'm like, I really wish, I really want you to know the intention behind it. So if I'm going to I have to practice what I preach. The rest of the conversation was lovely. He's like, very easy to talk to. I dig him. It's like the plus and the minus are the same thing. I'm like, the plus is he's young. I'm like, the negative is that he's young. They are just things that life experiences, no matter what career you're in, and like the life that he gets to live and see, you just don't have the life experience that I.

00:10:40
Speaker 2: Have quite yet.

00:10:42
Speaker 4: And he's very intelligent, but a book cannot teach you life experience.

00:10:49
Speaker 2: So no, he's not on pause. He's not on pause. OHI, well, I love this.

00:10:54
Speaker 3: I can't wait to continue the conversation. But I'm very excited because we have a guest that I've been wanting to talk to. I finished one of his books and now I'm halfway through another book, and it's doctor Ian Kerner, and he's a licensed psychotherapist. He is a nationally recognized sex therapist and a New York Times best selling author. Okay, the title of his book, are you ready for this?

00:11:19
Speaker 2: Yeah? Tell me?

00:11:20
Speaker 3: It's called The First One is she Comes First?

00:11:23
Speaker 2: Cum No?

00:11:29
Speaker 3: And then yes, love that? And then his newer book is so tell Me About the Last Time You had Sex? Okay, And that's more about intimacy. It's I'm super excited. This is going to be a great conversation. Did you read the coms first? Of course I did, obviously, obviously, And that was more I took it as more of a like biological scientific kind of approach. This one, this newer book, So tell Me About the Last Time He Had Sex, is more of a guide to relationships and like, let's I want to diving because I have so many questions for him, and I love a male's perspective.

00:12:03
Speaker 4: Oh, I've never had one so let's get him in here. Let's get him in here, bring him at Toronto.

00:12:10
Speaker 5: Hey, how are you good?

00:12:12
Speaker 2: How are you good? We're so excited to have you.

00:12:16
Speaker 4: I have to be honest, I've never had a male's perspective on a lot of these topics, which I guess is strange. I guess maybe when you're in an intimate partnership you should be having these conversations. Hence, maybe why I'm not in a relationship because all the important shit I don't talk about.

00:12:34
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that you have to be communicating in relationships. You know, I just watched I've been watching heated rivalry and the things people are everyone's talking about it. But the thing I like most is the way they are talking about sex, not just the sex being hot, but what feels good, what doesn't. I love that it doesn't hinge all around intercourse the way heterosexual sex does, and they engage in all these what I call outer course activities. So yeah, I think it's a great example of the importance of communicating.

00:13:07
Speaker 4: You just said exactly what I have been trying to Sometimes my brain is working but my mouth can't catch up. What you just said is exactly how I felt about heated rivalry. So thank you for saying that, because you just nailed it absolutely.

00:13:25
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was. I think anybody who wants to learn how to talk about sex, how to be creative about sex, how to let sexuality simmer, how to maintain interesting sex, go watch that show and get entertained.

00:13:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. I agree, I agree.

00:13:40
Speaker 3: And you know something, So I read your first book, She Comes First, and I learned so much about the clip, and I learned so much about my own biology that I didn't know that it has eight thousand nerve endings.

00:13:57
Speaker 2: Is that correct?

00:13:58
Speaker 5: That is right, Amber, You got clitterate.

00:14:01
Speaker 4: From what I experienced last night. That sounds absolutely correct. Yeah, that sounds right on.

00:14:10
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:14:10
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, so many men are still ill clittering. They don't understand that the clitterists is the powerhouse of female pleasure. It has external parts that we're all used to that get stimulated, but there are also internal parts that wrap around the entrance to the vagina which actually make intercourse feel good and feel stimulating. Without the clitterists, there is no real feeling around sex because vaginas are meant to deliver babies, right, you don't want more sensitive nerve endings deep inside the vagina. You don't want to experience more pain or more sensation. So yeah, the Clitterist is an amazing organ and I wrote that book over twenty years ago and it's still a very powerful part of my work, which is getting couples, heterosexual couples, men and women to take a more female centric approach to sex and to prioritize outer course all the things that are not intercourse.

00:15:15
Speaker 2: And I love that.

00:15:25
Speaker 4: How does that land with a man? Usually when they're like, oh wait, she's a part of this.

00:15:30
Speaker 5: Too, you know, some men are a little threatened. Some women are too. People like to think that penis and vagina intercourse is the be all and end all and organize all of their sexual events around that. I actually meet many men, believe it or not. I meet many men who want to be literally focused. They love going down on their partners, they want to do more of it. It's a very vulnerable sexual behavior and it's actually a lot of women who are sometimes resistant to receiving that kind of stimulation and want to try and just focus on intercourse. So I've been surprised over the years around the open mindedness of men to take this feedback and some of the rigidity of women. But I think it's also like, you know, we have genital self esteem issues. We men. We worry about the size of our dicks and how long we're going to last and how long we can keep it up. And I think women have their own set of issues around sexual self esteem.

00:16:39
Speaker 2: That is so true, Like it's my biggest fear.

00:16:44
Speaker 4: I'm like, when you start talking to someone and you're like, oh, this is great, and then I go, oh, no, we're.

00:16:49
Speaker 2: Gonna have sex. Fuck?

00:16:51
Speaker 4: What does that mean? What does that mean exactly? Because Amber and I are are both sober. I have a little over seven years.

00:16:59
Speaker 2: You're a year and a half. Amber a little over a year and a half. Yeah, amazing, So thank you very much.

00:17:05
Speaker 3: So we also when we start to date, like that social lubricant has gone as well as that.

00:17:12
Speaker 4: You know, for me, the alcohol kind of put me into my sexy and I was uninhibited and I was down for the cause. Like you want me to eat an ass, I'll fucking eat an ass.

00:17:21
Speaker 2: Now I'm like a wait or what?

00:17:24
Speaker 3: Yeah?

00:17:26
Speaker 5: You know, I work with a lot of sober people and it is an issue. How do you disinhibit how do you relax into sex when you're used to using alcohol, you know, because anxiety is the enemy of arousal. And the more we can do to get ourselves aroused, the more you're going to be willing to eat ass again, the more things that sound disgusting actually sound scrumptious once we're aroused, you know. But I do agree it's a challenge, and I think that's where setting setting comes into a lot of comes into it and feeling very comfortable, very emotionally safe with someone. I think, being connected to your erotic self, and I think with a partner, maybe being able to engage in the psychological aspects of sex, you know, the fantasy parts of sex or the you know, Like I see couples who won't talk about sex during sex, and then I'll see that same couple. I've worked with so many couples at dinner having a dinner, and you should see them the way they're like, Oh, try this, taste this, open up, baby, come on, come on, you have to try it. Please. I'm like, they're having more sex out at dinner than they're having, you know, sex at home. So it's also about engaging the language of sex.

00:18:51
Speaker 3: I love what you said in your new books, So tell me about the last time you had sex. It's the yes and dot dot dot and you fill in the blank of I want to have sex tonight, yes, and I'm going to start a bath first, or yes, We're going to go to dinner first. Like all that for play that's outside of the bedroom, and that starts there even it's like a thirty second connection. Can you talk a little bit more about that, because I really really admire and love that approach to getting comfortable to get to the point of where you're having in a course.

00:19:24
Speaker 5: You know, I think that's so important, especially for women. You know, male desire, there's been a lot of research. Men experience spontaneous desire, meaning like guy sees like a beautiful, sexy woman that sexual cue immediately metabolizes and he feels like a move to like want to consume right. Women also experience lust and can also experience spontaneous desire, but more often than not experience what's called responsive desire, meaning desire isn't the first thing you feel. It's like the third desire warms up, desire simmers, Desire needs an environment. You know, there's a difference between like a hot start, we're gonna rush through the door and throw each other on the bed, versus like a warm start that's nurturing, that's connecting. And listen, hot starts are fun. I love them, but warm starts are the reality of our lived lives. And so guys, really again, that's where we have to change our mindset. So to your point about like yes, and Amber, I will tell couples, you know, let's say you're gonna have sex on a Friday night, that's your date night. When you wake up in the morning, live your life like you want to get to the sex. I'm not saying you have to change your day, but like, take care of yourself, go to the gym, shut off your phone, plan a super sexy date night, help with the chores. If you're in a relationship, make your place you know safe and make a setting and like prioritize this that you want to get to. But to your point, Amber, it's all about building you know that connection.

00:21:06
Speaker 3: Right. I loved what you said about like the hot start, which is obviously very fun, and like I love being spontaneous, but if you think about you know something that is going to last and be your normal.

00:21:21
Speaker 2: I think if it's it's quick.

00:21:25
Speaker 3: And spontaneous all the time, then how do you ever get like that kind of has to be something that's on a whim, because then I find that men they want more and at some point I'm tapped out. I'm like, I can't get any fucking kinkier and more spontaneous, Like I'm looking, can you just like touch me and in a nice way instead of like slapping my ass?

00:21:46
Speaker 5: Yeah?

00:21:48
Speaker 4: I like the softness. People may not think that, but I do.

00:21:53
Speaker 3: Do you find from a biological standpoint that women post having babies that changes on a like the desire to have sex changes because it's a biological thing, or they're just exhausted and stressed and their priorities have kind of shifted. Because I'm sure you've seen a ton of couples that the wife doesn't want to have sex because she's doing all the chores and dealing with the kids totally.

00:22:18
Speaker 5: And I think those men that come home and want sex should get on the floor and play with their kids and change a diaper and clean and you know, join in the activity and make it feel like a shared family experience. You know. Look, sex changes over the life cycle, and I'm getting up there in years. I've been married for twenty five years, and I've been through some health issues and we've had two kids, and sex definitely changes over the life cycle, and there are hormonal shifts, but really it's about making space for sex and for romantic love in your lives, maintaining that erotic threat. So let's say you're a mom and you're changing diapers and you're picking up puke and your dad and you're running errands and you're both stressed out. You don't have to jump in bed to have sex, but you can have what I call like just like an erotic charge, like a moment with each other that reminds you, hey, I'm in a sexual relationship. Here, we have sex. We might not be having sex right now, but this is a sexy sexual relationship. So I work with a lot of couples who have just had children on sort of not just restarting sex, but almost like having like sex two point zero, like new sex, better sex.

00:23:38
Speaker 3: Well, I love that to keep the mindset even though we're not having sex right now, I am in a sexy relationship. Oh my gosh, you're a fucking genius. I love every our listeners are going to gain so much from this. You have no idea do you find Because we live in a world that so many women and men are on SSRI or some sort of antidepressant, how is that affecting the chemistry and the sex life of a real relationship.

00:24:08
Speaker 2: Because some of these, some of these completely kill your sex drive.

00:24:12
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean millions of people are on SSRIs. The long term effects overall don't get studied. But especially we know that almost anybody who's on prozac, zoloft, lexaproach, they're going to experience sexual side effects. Their desire is going to be diminished, their arousal is going to be diminished. In a woman, that might mean that sex actually feels different and is more painful because there isn't as much lubrication and for both, orgasms are going to be delayed, sometimes nonexistent, or sometimes really muffled. So you know, going on an SSRI is a big decision. Now. Some people are in such bad relationships or have so much stress or anxiety that going on the SSRI helps them reduce that stress and anxiety and they can focus on being sexual. Look, where there's a will, there's a way. Ultimately, sex is not about being spontaneous and having that hot start. It's about two people meeting with their willingness at the same time and really leaning into that kind of let's start putting ourselves through the motions, let's start simmering. And I work with lots of people who are on SSRIs, and there are pathways to mitigating some of those effects and finding a path to arouse it. But make no mistake, it's debilitating. And really really question before you need to go on that SSRI and how long do you really need to go on it? And can you sometimes take a break from it, you know, things to think about.

00:25:51
Speaker 3: I had that experience on zooft and I had a change. But before I changed, I went and saw a you know, hormonal doctor and she's like, Okay, you don't want to go off of it, let's do there's a nose spray.

00:26:05
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that you could take.

00:26:08
Speaker 3: I forgot the hormone that it releases, but she's like, it gives you, like within thirty minutes, you better be in the bedroom because it will just turn you on really quickly. I was like, I don't want to be shoving anything on my nose now spraying when I won want to have sex.

00:26:21
Speaker 4: So it was the thing that you spread up your nose was to get you horny and ready to roll.

00:26:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was it effective, It was, it was very effective. I actually had to get it from Organ. There's only like a couple of pharmacies in the United States that will actually do it, and this particular one came out of Organ.

00:26:42
Speaker 2: It was great.

00:26:43
Speaker 3: And listen, I'm young. I don't think I need I needed that, so I just stopped and I actually just changed medications. I ended up going on Pristige that's better, which gave me my sex drive back. So I just want everyone to know and I want everyone that's listening to know that, like, there's there's solutions, and sometimes it's a cocktail, and sometimes it's just simply saying, hey, not being afraid to go to your gun or your family doctor or your psychiatrist and said, listen, this is not working because I, like you say in your book, sex is a primal need and it's something that we need to take care of and participate in. And I want women to know that there are alternatives out there.

00:27:21
Speaker 2: I love that.

00:27:22
Speaker 5: Yeah, amazing. I'd love to know more about that spray. I work with people on trying to just work on the issues that are creating the anxiety or the sadness that's creating the need for those SSRIs and I like to try and get people off of medications that are going to be debilitating. I do think that sex is an essential part of life. I mean, I think it's the difference between somebody being a best friend and being a lover, between being a bed mate and being a roommate. And I think it's everyone's existential right to experience pleasure and their sexuality.

00:28:00
Speaker 4: Sess with this episode, by the way, we had a lot of people right in and they've got some They've got some questions for you. So the first one is how early into dating should you talk about your sexual desires with a partner?

00:28:22
Speaker 5: You know, I think I think you should start talking pretty early about sex. I think you should get in the habit of talking about sex the way you would talk about friends, the way you would talk about family, you know, Lalla. So many of us grow up in sex negative homes, you know, where sex was not modeled for us. It was not you know it, it was a taboo. It's a forbidden Very few of us grew up in sex positive homes. Most of us grew up in sex avoidant homes. That's where I grew up, in a sex avoidant home. It wasn't like anybody was particularly negative. They just didn't talk about it. It was never the conversation that came up. So I was launched into the world of sexuality not knowing how to talk about sex. And then suddenly you're with a partner, You're with a lover, Like, that's where you need to start developing the vocabulary and early on you know. Yes, So if you're sitting across the table from someone you find sexy, someone that you think you might want to have sex with, whether it's casual or may develop into romantic love. Yeah, have a sense of sexual self esteem, sexual self worth. Talk about what you like, what you don't like, what works for you, what doesn't, and what you need.

00:29:38
Speaker 4: Oh I love this because that was Actually I'm so glad someone asked that because I am newly launching myself into the dating, the dating world, and for a very long time it was like I was not having sex at all. I was planning to have a baby via donor. I was pregnant for nine months. Then I'm postpartum, and then it was like, you know, I just want to have sex, like no strings attached. So when when you're put in that situation, it's like both parties know the drill. Sex is the only thing that needs to be spoken about now that I'm venturing into like I'm open to love and giving someone my time and affection. I don't quite know when that conversation should be had.

00:30:22
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I like to say that lust is the seed of love. It doesn't always grow into romantic love. Sometimes lust just becomes lust, as you were saying. But sometimes you plant a seed and you're like, holy shit, this is this seed is actually blossoming into something. Start the conversation. You know, it can actually be the first time you have sex. You can during sex you could say try, you know, try this, or that feels really great, or I love this about you, or move this way a little bit, or ouch that hurts. I remember, honestly, when I was having sex with my wife for the first time, like, you know, twenty five twenty six years ago, she would tell me ouch, ouch that that hurts a little bit, or or this way or you know, if she didn't have an orgasm, she didn't have to fake it, and she was honest about it and like, no big deal.

00:31:14
Speaker 4: That's when you know you're comfortable, if you're like, you know, I didn't get off that time, instead of faking it. Oh, that is the worst feeling. Does anything good ever come from telling your partner how many people you've had sex within the past.

00:31:27
Speaker 5: Well, I can tell you that a lot of negative stuff does come with it. You know, people feel like my partner has you know, in men, People feel like, oh, she's had more sexual experience than I did. She knows more. I'm gonna have to really perform. That performing creates an anxiety that then creates a reptile unpredictability, and then that guy can't perform at all. So I don't think, you know, I don't think it's worthwhile to talk about partners in terms of numbers and quantity. If you want to talk about qual if you want to talk about, you know, some partners that you've had, I think that that's fair game, you know, to I think we should know each other's histories. I mean, I sit across the table from my wife and I know almost everything about her, you know, except what she writes in her journal. And I know what's going on in her life and in her mind, and I know what's happened in her history.

00:32:23
Speaker 2: Okay, I love that because I do like to parade my list around.

00:32:29
Speaker 5: Well, just I hope that, But that could intimidate you know.

00:32:34
Speaker 2: You know, you just say, I've had a lot of experience.

00:32:36
Speaker 4: Here's the with the as you with the age range I'm going for right now, just based off of how much older I am, I've got more experience.

00:32:44
Speaker 2: So let me teach you some things.

00:32:47
Speaker 5: What are today's pornified world? You have to the guys do not know what real sex looks like. They know what porn sex looks like.

00:32:56
Speaker 2: That's another big fear of mine.

00:32:58
Speaker 3: I've lived through that. I lived through that for eight years.

00:33:01
Speaker 4: You and me both, What are the positive and negative impacts free access to pornography has done to us as humans and our sex lives?

00:33:09
Speaker 2: We were just talking about this. What have you seen in your career?

00:33:14
Speaker 5: So I am both you know, I can go both ways on porn. I have a spectrum of feelings, you know. On the negative side, I do think that younger people at younger ages are watching porn and that's how they're learning about sex because guess what nobody else is teaching them, And so I don't think young people should be exposed to porn sex as their first model of what sex should look like. I also have men who come in who feel like excessive porn news has given them a reptile disorder, and they'll say, I watch so much porn now I can't get it up. Porn fucked up my brain. Actually, porn didn't fuck up his brain. What's fucking up his brain is he doesn't know how to actually be with a real person. Porn is easy, Porn is junk food. Real sexuality is complex and it requires attunement. So I think that there's some negatives to porn, but I also think there's a lot of positives. I mean, Amber, you said, what does somebody do after they've had a kid? You know, in those weeks. It's true that you probably won't be having sex for eight or twelve weeks, you know, and who knows where you ended up in the third trimester. So porn can be a very legitimate form of self pleasure. I tell couples all the time who want to sort of add some arousal into the sex at the beginning to get going to engage in psychological stimuli. A lot will choose to watch porn together.

00:34:59
Speaker 2: I was going to to ask you about that. Yeah, like you think that that's fine.

00:35:03
Speaker 4: If a couple is like, let's watch porn together, you think that that's a healthy thing to be doing.

00:35:08
Speaker 5: I actually do, in large largely, I really do, because that's a couple. First of all, they're very open minded, and they're willing to do that and willing to share that without feeling judged by what they selected. And ultimately it can be stimulating, just like watching a sexy movie or a sexy show. And look, let's speak true in long term relationships, it's sometimes is hard to keep that charge, that sexiness. So we owe it to our relationships to find ways to get into that warm start and get into the sex right.

00:35:41
Speaker 3: Well. Also, now we're gonna have to combat AI porn because that's really changing the world.

00:35:47
Speaker 2: Don't you have to pay for that?

00:35:49
Speaker 4: I fully enjoy porn, hubb I'm just letting you guys know. But just like I don't want to do this twenty minute thing, get to the good shit. I got five minutes, five fucking minutes.

00:36:00
Speaker 3: I mean, I've definitely fast forward a lot of a lot of the beginning.

00:36:04
Speaker 5: Yeah, I also like to recommend ethical porn, which is porn that you usually have to pay for. But it's kind of like like there's fair trade coffee, there's fair trade porn. You know that the actors weren't exploited, there is consent STI testing, so you know, wait, it's to their.

00:36:22
Speaker 4: Own Okay, throw it onto the list of subscriptions. My business manager is going to be thrilled. Why are we hearing that gen Z isn't using condoms?

00:36:37
Speaker 5: Oh my god, what do you think about that? I you know, what's your first response to that? Because I actually know So I know a lot of gen Zers who actually are very concerned about STIs and concerned about unwanted pregnancy and do use condoms. I also know a lot of gen Z women who are on birth control and will forego a condom even if there's a possible ability of an STI, so.

00:37:01
Speaker 2: Which is crazy to me.

00:37:03
Speaker 4: So, going back to what you stated about how there were three different types of household households with sex, I grew up in a very open households. Some of my listeners think my family's very weird, But I figure if I can talk about this shit to a stranger. I can certainly talk about it to the woman who pushed me out of her vagina. So I always knew that, like, the best case scenario is you get pregnant, right all the other shit that sticks around that you don't want use a fucking condom. I've always said you can hoe around, but you've got to be an educated hoe. This sends me into a full on panic to think that people of this age range are not wrapping it up.

00:37:52
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think women feel a sexual pressure to concede because any guy will tell you that it feels better to have sex with out a condom. But you know, so what, there's other ways. I mean, sex is still super, super pleasurable.

00:38:06
Speaker 2: There's so many different kinds. Go to Costco.

00:38:09
Speaker 4: They come in bulk, the thin there, the wrist kinds that climb on rocks like there's no reason why you shouldn't be putting a condom on. I want to shake these people. That is so dumb to be like, well, I'm on birth control, so all is good. Not all is good. I remember in the seventh grade they they pulled up this like basically, what is that thing where there's like circles and it connects everyone. You know, I'm thank you, thank you talk to And it shocked me to be like if this person has been with me, but they've been with all of these people and I've been and it connected all of us.

00:38:46
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god. So I always practice safe sex with the condom and birth control.

00:38:54
Speaker 5: And you know what, the fact that you're sober is amazing because I think more than likely you may be acting with men who moderate or are sober, or you're more connected into a sober environment because rates of unwanted pregnancy and STI highly correlate with you know, drinking and disinhibition. And so I think, you know, you're lucky you're in a and maybe are you in a sober sex environment or to some extent or.

00:39:24
Speaker 2: Yes, I would.

00:39:26
Speaker 4: I would say that no one has, No one is an alcoholic. I get very worried about being involved with men who are also in the program because, as you know, I'm a single mom. I have to worry about my own sobriety. I don't want to worry about yours. So I prefer you come into my life and just have a healthy relationship with alcohol.

00:39:47
Speaker 2: If I could have it that way.

00:39:50
Speaker 4: But I'm sure there were many times where in my drinking years I was stupid and didn't you know, practice.

00:39:58
Speaker 5: Its okay, we don't need to use a condom exactly. So that's what you do when you're a little You know, there's a difference between non consensual sex and unwanted sex. Unwanted sex can actually be consensual. I'm drunk, I'm a little drunk. Okay, let's not use that condom. I wake up the next morning. Fuck, I can't believe I let that happen. But yeah, you let it happen.

00:40:22
Speaker 2: I know, love to plan be back in the day, love to plan be.

00:40:27
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, stop. You know this is who I am. I'm an overshare. Can a lack of sex have negative health impacts?

00:40:35
Speaker 5: So you're not going like, look, I think that sex is a vital need. I don't think it's a need like food or water. If you don't get food or water, eventually you're gonna die. If you don't get sex, you know you are you're not going to die. But I think you're going to be missing out on a key aspect of relation. And let me just say, when I talk about sex, I'm not talking about intercourse. I'm just talking about whatever feels really sexual to you or wherever it gets you to pleasure. So they like to say that sex has health benefits, but you know, there are no real studies like, oh, sex is going to help me lose weight, or it's going to clear up my skin. I mean, you know, papers love to publish those kinds of stories. So I don't think sex is going to help you necessarily live longer. Being in a great relationship that has great sex might help you to live longer. And I don't think not having sex is going to kill you.

00:41:52
Speaker 2: Is it true?

00:41:52
Speaker 3: Because I've had quite a few men talk about that if they don't if they don't have sex frequently or jack off, that it builds up toxins in their body. They have to get rid of the toxins that doesn't turn into something that is unwanted, like a like a poop, you don't go.

00:42:17
Speaker 5: You know, there is there are some studies that show that masturbation is associated with prostate health. There's no real guideline around it. But you know, I would say that, you know, masturbation is can help with prostate health. But you know, guys love to sort of say, oh, if I don't release, I have you know, blue balls. I'm in this state of you know, arousal intention. The truth is, guys get turned on very quickly. We turn on we see something and we have to turn ourselves off. So it's just about sort of surfing those waves.

00:42:53
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:42:54
Speaker 3: I wonder how that translates for women, Like what's the equivalent of blue balls for women?

00:42:59
Speaker 5: Well? Women, And you know what's interesting is if you look at male sexuality versus female sexuality. During sex, blood goes into the male genitals very quickly, creates that you know, strong erection and that propulsion, propulsive ejaculation. Blood goes in quickly and blood leaves quickly, right, so men can go up here, have their orgasm and come you know, right back down here, and they have a refractory period a period of time before they can have sex again women again, And this is the beauty and the power of female sexuality. For women, blood flows into the genitals much more slowly, meaning yes, we a have to spend a lot more time on connecting and arousal and foreplay and things that feel good. But after orgasm, blood does not leave the genitals quickly. For women, it stays there, so women can go into this sort of warm plateau phase, and some women like to have more sex from there and have another orgasm. Women have sort of an unlimited capacity for orgasm if you just want to sort of ride that curve of orgasm into the warm state back into orgasm. So blood flows out of the female genitals more slowly, but ultimately men and women, you know, within a few minutes, will all land in the sort of the pre arousal stage of sex.

00:44:27
Speaker 3: Did he answer your question, Amber, Yes, I know this guy who stays hard for fucking hours and he's super young, and I'm like, this is fucking crazy, Like literally, we'll get off and within seconds it'll be ready to go again.

00:44:42
Speaker 2: He's like a dream man.

00:44:43
Speaker 5: Anyway, And how new is the sex?

00:44:47
Speaker 2: Very new? And he's like utill iPhone. I hope my mom doesn't listen. He's like twenty four, right, twenty four.

00:44:54
Speaker 5: There you go. Younger guys shorter refractory periods sometimes can get hard again right away, and new sex with someone who's hot and sexy will get them right back up again.

00:45:06
Speaker 4: Well, there we go, twenty four. That's the where I want to be is in terms of age.

00:45:11
Speaker 3: Oh Jesus, twenty four, I can't with you. So one of the things that I'm finding not twenty four, but like guys that are in their forties and fifties that are taking all this testosterone, what is a long term effect? Because I imagine it can't be good. But maybe I don't know. I'm not the doctor, you know.

00:45:34
Speaker 5: I'm not sure that I'm not a urologist. There haven't really been What I mean is that from what I've read, there haven't really been long term studies of testosterone. We live in a culture where doctors love to say, because of pharmaceutical companies, you can stay on this for life, and we really don't know a lot of men out there who have low libido and go on testosterone. It's not actually the testosterone that was the problem. It's it's other things. So so stosterone can be great. Like I'm working with some guys who really have chronically low libido and they feel a lot of lust or want for their partners, but they can't. They just don't feel a lot of lust or want but they did in the beginning, or they want to. They're into their partners, and so sometimes testosterone can move the needle. I think it's biologic. Sex is biological, it's psychological, it's you know, it's relational.

00:46:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot going on.

00:46:35
Speaker 3: I found the nasal spray, so I was taking this in twenty twenty three, and now I realize, like during that period, I think I was heavily in the family core system battling, So you can only imagine that my sex stri was not so exciting. So it was actually an oxytocin nasal spray.

00:46:56
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oxytostin nasal spray.

00:46:58
Speaker 3: That's really interesting is this is a quick acting so you want to use it within minutes of sexual activity. It was one hundred units spray one to two sprays into each nostril immediately before sexual activity. That's that's sexy.

00:47:14
Speaker 5: That is really interesting. You know, like oxytocin in spray form is becoming more popular. I haven't had a lot of experience with it, amber so your experience is great to know. I mean, oxytocin helps to Oxytocin is the cuddle hormone. It's the it's the connecting hormone. It's a hormone that helps with arousal. So I could see that and it would be short acting.

00:47:39
Speaker 3: It works, you guys, I am not joking. It's like you become a rabbit. I used it and I was like, and I actually threw it away because it had expired when I moved out to Montana, so I was actually like, do I need But I'm good now that problem has been solved. But yeah, that was one of the things that my doctor prescribed me and I actually got from a compounding pharmacy and organ cool.

00:48:03
Speaker 5: I'm going to ask an MD I work with, who's an obgyn and she's really into this stuff and she works we work with a lot of compounding pharmacies as well, so thank you for that. I'm going to bring this up with her and see if we can make it part of our potentially part of our treatment plan. And I'll get her feedback and she probably knows everything about it. So if there's anything should you guys should know about it, I'll let you know.

00:48:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, please do I would love that. Yeah, we want to follow up with our listeners for sure. Yeah.

00:48:31
Speaker 3: Well, the listeners were thrilled about this episode. I just have a couple more questions. What can a wife do to spice things up besides toys?

00:48:42
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, toys on their own are not inherently spicy. They're just devices. You know, same with like handcuffs or little you know, anything that's like BDSM or kinky or kink light, Like those are just accessories. They're prop It's what do we psychologically imbue them with, right, So you know it's sexy, Like if you wake up and tell your guy, you know, I had a super sexy dream about you last night, Like I don't know what my unconscious was up to, but you know, boy, where we getting it on in some unusual original ways, like hopefully you spice someone's interest in you thread it through the day. I guess what I'm trying to say is psychological arousal is as important as physical arousal. There have been studies that show that women can fantasize their way to orgasm without touching themselves. Men can get very powerful erections just by sitting in front of porn for seven minutes or looking at someone sexy or thinking about someone sexy. So think about bringing more psychological arousal into the relationship, which maybe requires a little more vulnerability.

00:49:58
Speaker 3: I've actually seen YouTube videos of women orgasming just by doing breath work, working with a sex therapist.

00:50:04
Speaker 2: That was fascinating.

00:50:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it is wild for I think it's all about the mental state, Like I have to feel very comfortable, I have to like create the fantasy. I think it's all about like the muscles within the vagina as well that you should constantly be working out. And yeah, there's I think what I love about this episode the most is all of the things that we've touched on that have everything to do with the sex that exists before the actual sex that I think so many people forget about. It's all about just the the penis entering the vagina, and there's so much more that goes into all of it.

00:50:52
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was working I worked with a couple who hasn't had they haven't had sex in two months, but they feel like they're in a very sexy sexual relationship. They have sexual confidence in themselves and each other. And then I was working with a young couple that had moved in during COVID and they were having sex five times a week or four times a week, and the guy was like, I don't feel like we're in a sexual relationship.

00:51:16
Speaker 4: Wow, you know, so that is mind blowing because mentally they're not in sync.

00:51:23
Speaker 5: Yeah, he didn't even realize they were having She's like, what do you mean we're not in a sexual relationship? We had sex four times and he's like, really, I don't remember that. And when I started to talk to him, talk to them, It's just there was no erotic thread. There was nothing connecting a sexual event to the next sexual event. There was no eroticism in the air. Right.

00:51:45
Speaker 3: That's why I think I always when people say, oh, you shouldn't have sex until you've hit the three month mark of dating, I see, and I get that perspective, right, and I respect that. But my thing is, what if you don't have sexual chemistry, what if there's no or what if there's issues in the bedroom, Like you're going to waste three months of your life of like building this thing and then all of a sudden it's the biggest ledgew You're like, oh, that's trumans of my life that I'm not going to get back.

00:52:16
Speaker 5: Yeah. I agree. I mean, hopefully you pick someone that you really have physical and sexual attraction with and you feel a heat just at that level just sitting across from each other. Now, the question is, you know, what do you do with that chemistry? And can you actually dance together sexually?

00:52:34
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, thank you.

00:52:36
Speaker 3: Amen.

00:52:37
Speaker 5: Hey, so I have a patient in my waiting room.

00:52:39
Speaker 4: We love that because that's how we're going to sign up. If you have a patient in your waiting room.

00:52:44
Speaker 2: Thank you. I love that much. We are so appreciative of you joining you got it.

00:52:49
Speaker 5: This was great, and stay in touch and good luck with everything.

00:52:53
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Have a great day. Bye, bite you guys.

00:52:57
Speaker 4: That was doctor Ian Kerner and I just he just made me so happy.

00:53:02
Speaker 3: I'm so happy as well.

00:53:04
Speaker 2: That was really good. I gained a lot from that. Yeah.

00:53:09
Speaker 4: And can I tell you you said you have a g spot inside your vagina. If my clit doesn't get the love it deserves, there's nothing happening for me.

00:53:20
Speaker 2: Really.

00:53:21
Speaker 3: Yes, we bounce each other out. We have something to teach each other.

00:53:24
Speaker 4: I don't want to be fucked like a jack rabbit, you know, like give me something, you know.

00:53:32
Speaker 2: Warm up the bean a little.

00:53:34
Speaker 3: The tiny but mighty I learned that it's tiny and mighty.

00:53:40
Speaker 1: Oh.

00:53:40
Speaker 4: I want to get a Chihuahua and name her clit because she'll be tiny, but mighty oh.

00:53:46
Speaker 2: I literally do that.

00:53:49
Speaker 4: Darling or clitoris kind of like Dolores, I love that.

00:53:55
Speaker 2: I can't.

00:53:56
Speaker 3: I can't, I can't.

00:53:57
Speaker 2: That was that was amazing.

00:53:59
Speaker 4: What was your most favorite part that he told you you shouldn't wait three months to fuck someone.

00:54:07
Speaker 3: I don't need permission, not anymore. We all love a quickie. Okay, that's that's a midday quickie could be nice, but like also taking the time, taking it slow, and really connecting with your partner, like really connecting with your partner in a way that's just not like hurry up and let's get it over with.

00:54:26
Speaker 2: I feel like.

00:54:26
Speaker 3: There's something really like sexy and this ebb and flow that I like about what he said about around all.

00:54:35
Speaker 2: That I do too.

00:54:36
Speaker 4: I feel like that podcast was very helpful for this stage that I'm getting into, where it's it's beyond just like hey, we're having sex and that's where it starts and ends, and creating this dynamic of like true intimacy. So I loved everything that he said. I hope that he wasn't turned off by me talking about eating ass.

00:54:55
Speaker 3: I can't help but just be La la at all times. You fucking crushed it, amber thank you. No, but he has seen everything. Okay, my god, he lives in New York City. Do you know the ship? By the way, have you ever seen the show Billions?

00:55:09
Speaker 2: Of course I have.

00:55:10
Speaker 3: Okay, do you know the wife who's like this button up therapist and her husband who's the day You know, these are two people that you would think would would have very vanilla sex or even sex at all. Those scenes where she gets her leather boots out and she gets the whip and I'm like, oh my god, I love this show. That show was so hot.

00:55:34
Speaker 2: I mean it was still good. Me too, Me too. I've been wanting to do.

00:55:38
Speaker 3: Wait, there's one more thing that I have to clear up because I've been reading a lot of.

00:55:43
Speaker 2: Comments and stuff. Okay, what the heck did you mean by I can go Brad or Angelina?

00:55:49
Speaker 3: Can you explain that to me and everyone who doesn't understand that because you have cleared like there's a storm out there around.

00:55:55
Speaker 2: This, you know, I really I did not think that it would be like that.

00:55:59
Speaker 4: I don't don't know why. Maybe I'm an idiot. As most people know, I have hooked up with women before. I have a deep love and appreciation for beautiful women. I find that I have a type when it comes to women. I do not like labels. I do not consider myself bisexual. There are other people who you may ask and they label me that, which is totally fine if that makes anyone feel more comfortable by putting a label on me. The only two labels that I will ever wear with pride are independent and mother.

00:56:30
Speaker 2: That is it. That's where it ends. So could I cook up with a woman? Yes?

00:56:37
Speaker 4: Do I see myself in a romantic partnership where we're intimate and life partners?

00:56:42
Speaker 3: No? But again I always go back to I also didn't see myself having a baby va sperm donor, so I'm just open to whatever.

00:56:50
Speaker 2: Honey, I love it. I love it great.

00:56:53
Speaker 4: Michelle had people congratulating her. I was like, oh fuck, I'm so sorry. I thought this was going to be like a cute friend's moment, and then like we love housewives, like let's use the Kyle Richards line. But I do find Michelle extremely sexy. I've told her, I'm like, if you if you were into that, Hi.

00:57:12
Speaker 3: So she's your type, I would say, if you were gonna like she would be.

00:57:16
Speaker 2: Everyone has a type.

00:57:17
Speaker 4: Everyone has a type. Yes, everyone has a type. And I don't usually like blondes, but I mean, I masturbate it to you, so who the fuck knows.

00:57:25
Speaker 2: I'm just an enigma. I love that wrapped in a riddle and cash all right, I love you so much.

00:57:34
Speaker 3: Ill you.

00:57:35
Speaker 2: That was the best. I will call you later. Great, let's do it all right?

00:57:39
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to another episode of an Unlikely Affair. I hope you guys gained a lot start texting your husbands and your wives saying how fucking horny they make you, and I'll catch you tonight, baby.

00:57:52
Speaker 3: Bye bye everyone,