#347 - Jimi Westbrook on The Origin Story of Little Big Town + Why He Quit Music Prior to Joining The Group + His One Non-Negotiable While On Tour

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome Jimmy Westbrook, one of the guys in a little big town. He actually quit doing music for a long time and then got a call was like, hey, you want to join this group or you wanna talk about a group? So he talks about that here. It's a pretty cool story. He's also the final puzzle piece in this because over the last five or six years, one by one, we have gathered the little big town tokens and now we have them all, so it's pretty cool. He's also got one non negotiable while on tour, He's like, I'm not a diva, but this is the one thing I gotta have. And I felt that although I am a diva, So I felt that they got a new song out. I won't say the title of it here or ever, and I talked about that. So what do you learn from this? Uh? Whenever he talked about quitting music. The thing that his girlfriend at the time didn't know about him was insane. Yeah, yeah, I was like, how did she not like? Yeah, it's interesting. And then the fact that we had never sat with him one. I've never sat with him one on one ever in my whole life. I've been with them a lot or two of them or three of them, but never just Jimmy and I. And he's like tatted up, cool dude. When he's by himself, he kind of gets lost in the shuffle. It's like the good looking guy because him, I felip both good looking. But Phil's get the long here. He's like the rebel. Yeah you know, he's like the the bad boys. Can you get along here? I don't even if it's a bad boy, but Jimmy's like all tatted up and I don't know. This is a little gritty. You're in person, which is pretty cool. So you didn't think so? No? I got that too. Yeah, UM, enjoyed it. I hope you check it out. Him and Karen the we'll called the lead, the lead, we'll called the lead vocalist. Um, they've been married for twelve years. They got a sound. Who's twelve now. And I hope you enjoyed this because I did, he says. Jimmy from a little big town here you go. I was just talking with that Jaren from cat like three, and I asked him. I said, hey, man, uh, I saw a picture with you and you have you didn't have a short on You may not have had a shirt on. I think I did have, and I think trying not to do that too often. Yeah, I think all you guys are in a pool. And he's said, uh, he said, it was like nine in the morning or something. You guys were in a pool, have Margarita's Is that story accurate? It is accurate. Well, I didn't get up that early, so I wasn't there at nine, but that venue which we played a bunch and this time when we showed up, Yeah, they put a pool in, which I think is genius in the venue. And yeah, at the back of the venue, right outside of catering they I don't know what it used to be there, but yeah, they put in a nice pool. So about eleven twelve o'clock, most everybody on the tour was out there, and oh my god, by the time the show rolled around. That's what I asked him, That's what I said. I said, if you're it was a ship show, but if you're starting that early, like, how do you take four hours to just kind of recuperate? And he was like, no, no, we kind of rolled right into the show, he said, And maybe it's let it be, do you guys do let it be? As an onboard He said what he remembers about let It Be was because you know, they play and then he to come you guys to come back at the end, and he's like sometimes Mom, He's like, you know what, the melody was there, but the words weren't there. It happens, man. We had such a That was a great day though. That was a lot of fun. We we all got to hang out and we've been having a blast on the tour anyway, but that was a little extra that day. Do you guys find now that you're you're touring and you're not twenty two that you can I don't know what, do you feel like you can relax a little more because you have success or like can you do things because also if you're twenty two, maybe you're doing that being reckless, but now you're doing that because you kind of understand where you I don't. Is there a difference now as a little big town is as when you guys were twenty thirty years old when you tol Yeah, I mean I think naturally, Um, yeah, I think we are. I don't really get nervous or any of that before a show anymore. Just our regular live shows we're really comfortable. We've been doing it for a day long time now, and um, it's it's definitely changed. You know when um, when you're younger, you feel like you're really just fighting all the time, like just to um be somebody yea be uh you know, and especially like some of the slots you play when you're younger, it's a lot earlier you're getting out there and it's literally like you're fighting for their attention. So it's you know, it's a little more focused, but I mean that's never curbed. Are enjoyment of uh, you know, hanging out and having a good time. That's that's all aside from having a good time. But let's say somebody one of you four is not feeling good. It's not because of that, just just a general because this is what happened on our show. We have a similar dynamic where there's you know, four or five of us and we can pretty easily cover without anyone knowing that person needs covered. Four is that situational? Can all four of you guys be covered? Four if you show up and able to do a little can you guys cover without anyone really noticing? Yeah, I mean I will say that that feels like, um, an advantage of having more people. Um, you know, we've had some really we have only played a couple of shows without one of us, you mean, just not there at all. Yeah. Um. One we dropped Kimberly off on the side of the road to have a baby in Phoenix and continued on to our next stop. And then there have been a couple of times when Karen had a migraine that we had to go and play without her, which if you think about that, it was a little different back then. We didn't have as many hits, so nobody really jared either way. Um, but um, it is we can spread it around. It's a um especially if we uh you know, I know a little bit in advance. We can get together and move parts around. You know, we've we've gone and like okay, I'm covering Karen's parts on this and uh so yeah, yeah, it's it's an advantage, especially in those moments when you can't help that as much. Especially as we were touring. There was, um, the year that Boondocks came out, we we played two and fifty shows that year. That's just shows. That's not travel days, that's not TV, that's not so, um, you get ragged out. You know, your vocals, we sing a lot if Karen's down as and I'm just gonna call her and I'm not sure what the roles are, but I feel like she sings. And the more of the songs that we hear on the radio. I don't know if you guys have a term, Jeff, it's so it's a very equal group, which is odd for me to say lead vocalists, but for the sake of this, I'm going to call her that because absolutely, if she goes down, can kimberly sing if she ready to sing all those parts? And do you have to change keys of anything? We haven't had to go that far. Um uh. The one the couple of instances were Karen. Like I said, that was early on. We didn't have the big hits that Karen has, you know, carried um, so we had she could, she absolutely could. Um. Their range is a lot different, so it would be different. I might have to end up covering some of Karen's but yeah, yeah, you know, you do what you got to. But yeah, she could totally do that. So and I want to get just some of your life stuff in a minute. But I was just looking at the new single which you're you're the you're the guy, you're the main the lead vocalist Philip on hell Yeah, Okay, I knew it was a dude and I don't. And Phillip's got the big, husky, thick sounds like he smoked a pack of cigarettes voice. I'm a little more in Karen's mid range. I kind of bridge the gap between the bottom part and Karen's middle. You're talking too smart from yeah you're inside baseball? Well, I mean I can act like I know about that, but I don't. Let's play, Mike, we play a little bit of the new song here, Yeah, go into yeah you moved on? Yeah? Well, a conscious decision to put Philip as the lead on that song and then make it a single or does it does it think? Does the whole package come together? And then you decide the song came together? First it was, um, we always try to approach the songs, um, who it fits best, who who tells the story the best? So that's that's kind of how that came about him singing it. Uh, And then later on it became the single choice whenever you write that because you're at that with Tyler Hubbard from f g L and Corey Crawter. Okay, so you write the song, are you writing it as a little big town song? And then two is he is Philip singing this song on like the demo? Or was it? Later Philip be like, what's that? So actually we when we wrote that song that day, I think actually Corey sang the demo for it. Um, that's just kind of the way it went down when we were hanging out writing it. UM. Yeah, and it was. Yeah. I think anytime you get in the room with people that are writing with you, most of the time it's you're trying to aim for something for yourself. UM. And I do feel like that was the intention that day, UM, to write a song for us. UM. We had also at one point talked about, um, maybe one of them jumping in on it. But that kind of the time we wrote that song actually probably almost three years ago. Now, UM was that pre pandemic or in pandemic pandemic And I guess you had to sit on a lot of it it was probably a strategy you had to decide do we just hold on stuff that we're really passionate about because we don't know what's going on? Or do we put stuff out that's really good because maybe it'll cut through and nothing. I mean that's a kind of a decision everybody creative had to make. Yeah. Um. Actually though, how that kind of worked out is that we cut so many songs for that last record. We actually cut this song for that record, and UM didn't really feel like it fit. UM. So that's the kind of thing that when we came back around for this record and we were starting to try to find the sequencing and and which songs we're going to actually make the record, that one kind of pop back up because we always loved it and thought it sounded like a hit in that hook. I just Corey that was Corey's hook idea, and I just thought it was brilliant UM twist on it. So we always loved it and then it just kind of came back around again. One of the things for me that I prioritized, and at times I get judged for it, is that if it's a Saturday and I'm shooting a TV show. We shot my whole net GGO show on Saturday's and I always almost Beyonce like had to watch the Razorback Games and it was and there were a couple of times they couldn't make it happen because we're shooting in this one specific location at a time, we can only get this person. But I still had it up like it just was a non negotiable for me, And there are only a couple of non negotiables in my life period, and it's if there's a game, the Razor By Game, one football game on Saturday, I have to watch it. And so from what I hear is that you're also not an Arkansas fan, but a big Alabama fan. Same way with you. I'm not a diva about anything really, except on Saturdays. If I wake up in my bus doesn't have WiFi or a signal to the satellite, I'm like, I'm are, you're gonna have to move the bus and it's non negotiable. And I'm like, and and it's known about you beforehand. Yeah, it's that's always what I end up saying. I was like, we kind of know this. I try to not be too much, but yeah, I definitely And you'll look back up when we're sound check if a game is on my I pad is right there. I mean, I love it. I've done shows before, like a comedy show, and then I'm on, but the game is going later than I will send out the tour manager on to the opener who's playing and go, hey, uh, can you play incause because not only that, he'll pay you double and I'll make sure they know that I haven't pulled that one in there. But you have three other people. But there have been times more more and we had a like a mean great last year the festival I put on in Austin, and they understood. I was getting tweets from people going, hend no, you're not coming out of the me and greet for not les, not the twenty minutes because the game is still on. So when that when that happened, and it's not me being a douche for no reason. Everyone just note right, It's understood, So it doesn't much. Yeah, just giving football games? What was that like for you as a kid. I assumed that that was somehow instilled into you that the Alabama football was a big part of your life. And I'll say, we have Arkansas fans in our family that are just the same as you. They love Arkansas. I love Arkansas too, unless they're playing us. But um yeah, yeah, my in my house, I have so many memories of watching games with my dad and my brother who's quite a bit older than I am. Um, But it was a big deal in our house and we watched games and it's loud, and there's emotional hugs and jumping up and running around the house and did you fawn? Though? Man, it's such a it comes from such a good place. I wonder you talk about it was such a family thing, do you think? And and I can give you my story too, But why is it so partan? Is it because that that was such a bonding thing between you and your dad, like and maybe that is still there for you because mine is. I didn't have a family for a lot of my life. But the one consistent thing that was there for me always on a Saturday on a Tuesday or the basketball team that they that was always there. That was something I could attach myself to have a bit of an identity, and it was always there and I could understand it being how I felt, or I could also understand if someone's dad loved it so much that that even if it's if you don't think it and like, I just love it because my dad. Maybe that's the reason you felt it early and you held onto it. Yeah, I think definitely all of that. Um, it felt like tradition in a way. I'm a super sentimental guy attached to things like that in that way. Um, So I'm sure that plays a big part of it. Um. And then just my love for college football, which is changing in some ways a little bit. I understand it and I'm for it. But the heart of college football, um what I feel like the kids are playing for that pride that you can only get kind of in that arena of college football. Um, I love. It's a it just feels a little deeper, you know. But I love all sports, all professional all of it, like sports in general. Your dad, your brother, you mentioned that trying your brother older younger, was the older younger? He's older. Yeah, he's quite He's twenty five years older than now why he's a lot. I don't know if that's the exact number, but yes, right, yeah, yeah, were you the last kid. I'm the baby of six and the closest sibling to me was ten years. I only lived with one of my siblings, so you know them as obviously brothers and sisters, but not like a traditional We lived down the hall, all brother and sister well, we exactly and not in that way, but we're all super close. My Um. You know, we grew up in a little town, a couple of thousand people there. Um, they were all there except for my brother, who was in Arkansas until he was in his thirties and then moved out Alabama. UM. So yeah, I didn't have that kind of relationship with him, but I was also I grew up with their kids, so there was kind of almost parental to like, especially my oldest older sister, Sandy. I stayed with her a lot. I am an uncle to someone seven months younger than I am. She lives in Arkansas and Cabin. I mean that sounds like the Arkansas. The name of your town that you grew up in was what Summitton? S U M I t o n What what's Summitton known for? Uh? It was a coal mining town back in the day. Um. A lot of my family from my dad's side of the family were cold miners. Had some tragedies in our family because of the coal mines. Um. So it was a coal mining community of course that kind of died off. Um. It's just a little wide spot in the road between Birmingham on your way to Memphis, you know. Similar. I'm from a town called Mountain Pine, Arkansas, where we were a sawmill town, and the whole town was built on the sawmill. And everywhere you went, you know, there are people And this isn't funny or sad, but it was just there were just people with missing arms and hands and fingers and from the sawmill. Yes, And I just remember it not being sad, but I'd be like, oh, Jimmy doesn't have a left arm because he would work at the mill for all of his life. But when that mill went away in a town that was already impoverished, it's really rough in my hometown now because there's just that you don't go there now for any reason. There When the mill was there, people would move there to work at the mill. But there's no reason to move Mountain Pine anymore. And so when you've had this economic hub for so long and then you don't, that can really cripple a town with the mind the coal mine being gone. Is that sort of what happened to your town? Or they find a nun you know it. When I was growing up, of course, it wasn't a thing. I mean, there was still a couple of coal mines and and that we're functioning at that time, but it had kind of gotten away from around being centered around that. Uh. I remember, I remember I felt like it was thriving when I was a kid. It has changed a lot now. Um, I think a lot of people have moved towards Birmingham a little more and um, but there they've really, um seen kind of a resurgence here in the past year or two where I feel like it's coming back around closer to what it used to be when when I was there. But it has changed a lot. And my family has been there a long time. Yeah, yeah, I mean I live on Westbrookster. That's funny that my family always lived there, you know, that's they were all there. Do you feel like you juggle or have to balance the life of we'll call it rock star life and dad live. Can you can that be the same? Or is that you kind of have to check into a character at some point of of one of the How how do you do that? Um? It is a balance and I think, um, as my son gets a little older, m M, it's a little a little different, But I mean, you know, I'm I'm pretty I'm pretty much the same guy on and off. I'm still goofy dad. That's you know, is that what he would say about you? Your good your goofy dad. You're living goofy oh yeah yeah yeah, like silly. I'm just silly kid with your job, which is abnormal, as both of ours are in our own individual ways. Um, in a couple of ways. One, you are very front facing, you are in the you're in the public eye. You are receiving praise, You're receiving criticism from people you don't do. Not know what are those conversations like with a kid because she's not getting older and it's crazy to watch him grow, I know, and he is becoming more aware of things like that. Um, you know he We're just not a big deal. So he does it's not I mean, I know he he I will say this like in the past few couple of years, I think he's um become a lot more aware of I don't want to say that competition, but kind of you know. Like the funny things I think about is like he a couple of years ago, was watching an award show and we lost and he was so mad old dominion. He was so I got home and he was like I hate those guys. I was like, buddy, it's it's not a big deal. We're okay, we've won the awards were good when you were his age, talk about you and what and again, how how old is he now? He's twelve? Holy crap, he's getting it's crazy and he looks like he's older than that. So so you're twelve, Where are you at twelve? What do you want to be? What's what's happening with the family, like, what's going on? The complete difference between his twelve year old in mind is just it blows my mind and it's a little bit of I'm trying to wrap my head around it because it is so different. But um, I was not nearly as smart as he is or aware of the world. Um, everything that goes on. I was a very sheltered Um you know, I lived. I lived in my little town and it's a very conservative community. That is really my whole existence growing up revolved around my church. Um there's two thousand people in my town and a thousand of them went to the church I went to. So you're kind of in this little fish bowl. Um my, Uh, my family was very conservative, so it was Um, I had a way different life. And like I said, I kind of when I think back to myself at that age, I was not nearly aware of of life in general as as my kid is. What about dream wise? Like, what do you what you're twelve? What do you want to be when you grow up? I wrote my first song when I was twelve, and I sang my first solo when I was twelve. That was that began my love affair with music. Where did you find that you could do music? Was it in church? It was in church, yeah, definitely. So it was a lot of hymns. Was that did you have a because I went to a Southern Baptist church, but we still had incorporated some Newish school stuff. It wasn't all old school hymns like yeah, no, we the amazing thing. And I think the reason I love music so much because, um, my church had a youth choir of about two kids and we would take summer trips travel go and sing all over the country. Um and uh so, I you know, that's that's really where I cut my teeth and fell in love with music. But they my church had full horn section, um, multiple guitars, draw it was it was a big production. The music part of it. We had really super talented people at our church, uh, instrumentally, vocally, everything. It was a big yeah, oh yeah. It absolutely set me on the path of I remember sitting with my choir director and just dreaming about being on stage and singing. I knew that's what I wanted to do from the first time a singer. So your parents at all musical, Your dad musical, brother, my my mom uh sings. Her whole family is super musical. We would go to two um family reunions and they would break out the amps and the keyboards and my my uncle Jim was fantastic piano player. Um my dad could sing. He didn't he wasn't really that his side of the family wasn't really big into music, not as much as my mom's side. But everyone around me saying my sisters singing, yeah, sure, everybody. I mean, there's you get to see with your own eyes. Example, to people playing instruments and and the church that we go down two down here they are they're really really good. It's unbelievable to me. They're like as good as the people that come in the studio. And so I would imagine being a kid and seeing this it It allows you to know that that can be attained. Just that even to see that is would be great for a small town kid. I just assume and feel like we grew up in a similar place and there's not a lot of well a lot that you're exposed to being in a small town. So to be musical and see that around you, I think would be just so fantastic. But you go and you talk to your your choir director and you say, hey, I want to do music. How long until you actually get to do something in the church where people see you as you like solo or play or something. It was, Yeah, I think it was in those early um instances of me stepping out for the first time with the choir taking solos. You know, we had big musical productions that we did for Christmas, and I would have featured parts that I felt like I was being seen for the first time in a way you know where you advanced as a kid, or you have an advanced singer, and that you kind of had control of it before a lot of other kids did. Yeah, I did. I've it felt very natural to me, and um, I felt like I could connect with people when I sang that was what really attracted What do you mean by that you can connect with people, you're connect Well, I just I know, I think I know, and this is all, of course hindsight, but I think back and I think that, Um, I saw when I sang people were moved by it. Um, you know whatever I felt like that was. I was like, oh, I think this matters, you know, And I think that's what attracted me to it, just seeing how people connected with me when I was doing something like that. So you sing at church, But when did you go, this is what I want to do for my payment rent in the food. That's because it's a different commitment. Yeah, And you know I didn't. I feel like most of the time, it was all always just showing up at anything that I could do, like whether it was singing at a wedding or a funeral or wherever. That's really probably the first money I made singing was singing at weddings and um. But you know, I never really did anything that made any kind of money at that time. My I knew that I wanted to to be in music in some way, I had no idea what that was gonna look like. I think probably at first I figured it would be in the church realm Um, I sang in gospel groups. It's at some at some points, did you listen to second of music at all when you were UM? I did, but I'm a lot later on some of the classic music that I love now. I was a lot later coming into those kinds of things. So you were really and I didn't really get into UM. You know, I listened to there. My main exposure to different kinds of music was UM. Because of my siblings and my mom and dad. They had There was this box of records in and one of our closets that had Stevie Wonder, It had Elton John, UM, it had um uh, Dallas Davidson, Christian music, there was Alabama Records. There was this eclectic box of music that I would put on the forty fives or whatever and listen to. UM. That really kind of exposed me to other things. But a lot of times it was Christian music or country music, UM, you know whatever eight tracks my parents were listening to. UM. Don Williams is a is a big memory for me of country music at that time. UM. But I did sing and listen to a lot of gospel music, and I listened to country music, but there was a period of time kind of in my late teens that I didn't. So there's like a span of country that I really didn't. I kind of lost out on it, but just because I kind of found other stuff, you know, I was really into rock stuff. You know. It's funny you mentioned like the gap because I was raised hardcore on country music and and even some of the gospel stuff because my grandmother raised me right and so she had a lot of pride of people from Arkansas. So it was obviously Johnny Cash, you know a lot, and then the gospel stuff, uh Andy Griffith, which is odd because I knew him as a singer before I knew him as Andy gif Show. Yeah. Um, but there was a time because growing up for me in the nineties when Naster came out and digital music was allowed, and I missed on like that late I guess people were like two thousand one to like two thousand eight. That's an empty period for me to like know. I know it now because one, I know a lot of people that made music then and I just kind of re check in. But there's a big gap for me there. I remember once I was watching I wonder what show it was, and you guys were on doing maybe Tornado it was when I come back to it, but you guys were on, and I was like, I'll look at these four four fine looking folks here, like they seemed nice because Tornado was one of the early ones that was um. Maybe, yes, we we had two hits. There's some big gaps in our We had Boondocks was two thousand five, bringing on Home two thousand six, and then we didn't have another radio hit until two thousand ten, which was a Little White Church, and then the Tornado record was after that, So that was Pontoon was on that record, and of course that was the biggest and maybe it was that, maybe it was the record, but it was my first exposure to you get yeah, and that was we probably gained the biggest audience that we had ever had at that point with that, It's Crook and Chase. It was the Crooking Chase TV Show. Now that I remember, it was the Yes, I saw you guys on the Crook and Chase TV Show. And because I always loved Crooking Chase, I listened on the radio as a kid and I would just check back in occasionally and I saw you guys, and I thought, well, I'll get the off. They're all four good looking. What kind of group is this? Where's the ugly one? I remember taking like, there's gotta be at least one ugly when they hide somewhere, and that wasn't the case. And then then is about when I re checked back in just a couple of years before I came to Nashville, I was kind of dial back in. But it's funny, I've never thought about the gap before, and to you said that mine was in the nineties when it was the biggest heyday of country music. I mean, you know, I knew of those artists at that time surface level, but I wasn't really listening to it a lot. Then it was more rock and yeah, when he was an alternative, Yeah like that Joe Nichols, this era the beginning of that. I don't know what I know all those songs now, but I don't you know, Broken Heartsville didn't know when I was lying. Listen to it now. When did you move to Nashville? What age I moved in ninety nine when we started we you mean, uh did I say, well? Because I moved with a buddy, I didn't even know I said that. But yes, I moved in uh nine. So we had been I was working in Birmingham doing I was making copies. I was a copy guy. Um. I had actually started on the night shift. I worked the third shift night shift at this little company in downtown Birmingham and then kind of worked my way up to sales rep where I had actual lawyer clients and that I serviced for their legal documents and such. Um. But I had done that for a couple of years and I was so I was like, I've got to get back to music. Which it sounds like you were in your twenty early twenties and so, and you would pursued a profession even though it wasn't there for a film it wise you had pursued a professional job. Yeah, I was paying off bills from prior musical failures. Were you still put it all on credit cards? So I had to pay it off? Are you still singing a little here and there? But not a lot? In fact, the girl I was dating at the time and had been dating for a long time, I had no idea I could sing, and that's all I've done prior to that time in my life. But there was a couple of years where I was paying off credit card bills and working. Didn't really know what I was gonna do and work my way up in this job, and I decided internally, I didn't even really tell anybody that I was like, I've got to I've got to get back in music. Um. I knew a guy that had just moved to Nashville who was cousins with Chuck Cannon. I don't know if you know Chuck Kennon. He's a incredible songwriter, had some really huge hits back in the day. I Love the Way You Loved Me he wrote loved Um. He heard one of my Christian songs that I had written and wanted to talk to me, and that kind of I was like, oh wow. And I went and I went to his house and he had just one song of the year. I mean, I couldn't believe that he had taken an interest in something that I had written. We had a conversation. It was it was terrible. I had no idea what I was doing, but he was very kind and but that kind of sparked something into me that I was like, I've got to get back to singing again. So I decided, and probably two weeks after that that I had mentally thought, Okay, I'm done. I've got to figure out a way to move on. Karen called me and said, hey, what are you doing? And I was like, well, I'm working in Birmingham, but I just started doing some demos and I wanna I want to move to Nashville. Why would you call you? How does she know you? She we knew each other, um, from when she was in her the Christian group she was in. I knew of her in that. UM I filled in. This is crazy. I filled in a few weeks UM in this Christian group. UM. One of their members quit and I filled in for maybe a couple of months. And Karen was on that tour opening up with the duet that she was in in Christian music. So I met her then and then So this was years after that. Did you guys ever have conversations though about doing something a collective or getting to Nashville even individually or No, we didn't really know each other that well. I mean we would chit chat, you know, hey, passing each other, but I didn't really know each other that well. So, UM, there was a college group that I had sang in. One of the guys that was in that was in Nashville and was friends with Karen, and she was talking about doing this group with Kimberly and that they felt like they wanted to have some male voices, and Neil is, that's our friend, actually said Hey, why don't you see what Jimmy's doing. He's he's a really good singer and you should check out and see what he's doing. So he kind of prompted her to call me. And so when she called, that's when I was like, wow, actually kind of I want to go to Nashville. She's like, well, come up and hang out with me and Kimberly and meet her and see what you think about this. And that's kind of how that all started. And and the weird, the crazy weird thing is like still told nobody at my work that I had that conversation or anything, And about three or four weeks later, they offered me a transfer to Nashville to open up a new brand. Did you do so you can so me? And that's what me and my buddy that worked at that place at the time moved here and opened up this copy place. But you still working, which is really cool. Yeah, you're still there every day Monday there. So what struck me when you were talking is that you obviously love music, you love this thing. You spent a lot of time doing it, but there for a while you just quit. Was what was the moment where you went, all right, either this isn't gonna work out, or I can't do it anymore because it sounds because that is big to go, I just gotta stop for a minute. Yeah, I don't think it was that. It wasn't that conscious. I wasn't that conscious of that move that I was. I wasn't saying you're never even saying for your girlfriend, so you can you know. It was a slow move, but that's drastic, it is. But it was just, you know, it's a matter of doing what you gotta do. And I was so under student loans and all these credit card bills that I'd piled up in a in a band in college. Um, I was going under financially. I had no no way to pay that, and so it was I just had to get a real job. So maybe it was less of you being like, screw it, I'm getting out of here, going to a real job, and more of I'm gonna after the practical and pay off these bills and eventually I can get back to it. Yes, got it? Yes, Okay, that makes the heart feel better about He didn't up and be like, no, I'm getting music, No, no, no, no. It was that was a period in my life where I just had to figure out how to pay my bills, which you know that happened again many times after that. But UM, just trying to figure it out and survive. You come up, you hang out with Kimberly and Karen. Uh. There is no Philip yet, he hasn't even born yet. And so what what's the vision because obviously they have some sort of vision for the group or the two of them with guy voices when you get up here, what's the vision as described to you? And was it appealing to you? At first? It was? It was it was all harmony based. UM. At that time, we weren't sure that there was gonna be a fourth we UM. The three of us sang together. UM. I remember many nights sitting in Kimberly's living room and working up songs and and UM. But it wasn't long after I came into the whole process that it was. It was a discussion that we were having, like Dewey, add one more voice for versatility, And actually there was a producer in town that was showing interest in what the three of us were talking about doing UM, and he kind of solidified that, Hey, maybe you should think about one more voice. That gives you the possibility of one person singing and then you have a triad behind them. UM gives you a lot of versatility. And that was about the time that we were Okay, yeah, I think that's the right way to go. And there was a friend of Karen's that introduced us, introduced us to Philip at that time. I mean, for me, if I'm going through this and we're like, okay, we have three, we're gonna add another. But that's another We weren't even thinking about money, man, we didn't know that could even happen. But it's like eventually, because again I didn't make money for fifteen years, so I know what it's like to struggle. But in my mind, I'm like, eventually, I'm gonna make money. Like we're gonna hang in there. I'm gonna get better at it before people splitting it. That is, it's it's a bigger deal. That's a bigger deal. Did you guys audition people? Did you have people seeing and not like an informal audition? Is that was that kind of the plan Earlier the three of us sang with jod On. That's the only person I sang with in the auditioning process. I think Kimberly and Karen actually did sing with Gary at one point. Um, but he didn't have the chops and I figured love Ox didn't have the chops. Yeah. Um, But you know, it wasn't long. It wasn't Probably a couple of months later, I met Philip. I came up, drove up and met him at a restaurant and hung out. Um, and we figured out that that felt like the right blend. When we all sang together, it felt right, And from that point on it was it was going to go that way. When did you not a year but from that point where you meet Philip, when did you have to create the LLC or that Now it's an entity, like we aren't just friends that are singing making forty bucks and four of us to split. We're now going to pursue this. And if we're going to pursue it, it's got to exist. So when did that happen? It was right right around that same time. I mean it all happened, like from the time that I said I was going to do this to the time we um That was maybe at the end of ninety eight when we were having these conversations. I moved in February of ninety nine. We were a four person group, all the four existing members, and just a few months later had a record deal. So that was all super fast. I moved here in February and we started. I remember I just opened up that branch of that company, and I was already going, hey, I'm not going to be able to come, We're gonna go sing for some labels and that kind of thing. They were super I was really up front about all that. When I moved. I'm like, I have this intention, so you're probably gonna run into this issue with me. And so when it happened, they were intention to watch the game, You're gonna run into this issue the buses at park where I can get signal, thinking ahead, yes, that's pretty quick to get a record deal. Yeah, I mean we sang for six labels. We took a one guitar. I didn't even really play guitar at that time. UM took it in and saying live in front of all the record exects, and we got about five offers out of the six cheese. So if i'm you, I'm going well or one step away from Fay, it's on. Yeah, when did you realize that that's not quite how it works? Well? We um, We got our record deal. We in fact the signed the night we signed with Mercury Records, which lasted about four months maybe. UM. We got a spot at the Opery to play. We only knew three songs, we played all of them. Um, and then they immediately whisked whisked us away in a limo to the airport to go sing at the De la Hoya fight for the national anthem. And when we were getting picked up in limos at the airport in Vegas, I was like, oh, this is on and then we lost our well we didn't. We walked away from that. It was a handshake walk away. Not many months after that, so it was quickly like, oh, this this is not going how I thought it was gonna go. Well, I'm gonna ask you and I have you expand on both of these. But the harshest reality once you get a deal and then but then actually kind of the greatest fairy tale that because you've been able to experience both, I'll say that you guys are in my mind if I'm just speaking of my thoughts and feelings here, which is often what I do. Like, Um, you guys have really worked. Everybody works hard. You guys have worked hard, and you've had a boom, big song. I like what you guys do, though you try to push in different directions and at all times it's not always People aren' always receptive of new things, and I always admired that you guys continued to try that regardless. And so you say there's a gap, But in my mind, I'm like, yeah, probably gap because people don't understand what you guys are trying in the time, right, Like, that's how I interpret You're not saying it. That's how I'm interpreting because I've been able to experience a lot of it, not beside you, but running in a parallel path. So when I say harshest reality, biggest fairy tale, you've got to have them both. Let's start with the harshest reality of what it is that you do and and what you've had to experience. Well, I mean I think I immediately go to to the time when I was just telling you that, Um, the Mercury deal started going awry. Um, how do you know what's going awry? Did you feel it? It was made very we were made aware that it was. We without going into too much of the backside of of all that, we we basically signed at Mercury, cut a few sides, and when the powers that be at that time at Mercury heard the sides that we did, we cut about four songs. UM. They basically said, Hey, if if any of this is who you are, we're not interested. They were just were not interested, And so the harshest reality was UM. I think in that moment I remember them saying all of that UM, and basically felt like we had an ultimatum like our So I I just remember going to the parking lot after that conversation and all of the four of us sitting in a car shell shocked. I mean, we just signed our deal. We had did you know the day Lahoya fight this is and then all of a sudden, now that's about to be yanked out from unders. We're about to lose our record deal. But I'll tell you this in that moment, and I think that was a pivotal moment for the band as far as what you're talking about of pushing and following our gut and our heart and where we musically want to go. We had that decision to make that day, and it was the hardest decision probably well I know at that time that we've made. It was incredibly difficult because we were we were sitting there having to ask ourselves, is any part of what we just presented them us? And it was, you know, some of the production might not have been quite the right direction, but we're still experimenting, trying to figure out who we are. But the harmony, structures and all of that of what we presented was us. So we made the decision ourselves that we were going to walk away from it because if they're telling us that they don't want any of that, then we can't stay here. That's that's not going to be true to ourselves and and but it also set the ground work for who we became as a band as far as living and dying by our own decisi Jews. Now, when I mentioned on the other side of that, like the grid, like it's so great. It's weird, like they're they're You're like, Wow, this is going so wonderfully that it feels like it's the dream because I'm lucky enough to get those moments too. I mean where you're just like, I can't believe it's happening. I feel like I have so many of those moments. But um, it's always to me the unexpected, unbelievable moments, like collaborations that you do with people, or the being asked to be an Opery member. It's the things that you didn't even take the time to dream up because you're like, oh, I didn't know that was possible. Um, it's kind of all of those moments of um, you know, singing on John Mellencamp record like we we ended up doing non songs on one of his records, is the vocals for his thing. It's it's those kinds of moments that you get to share the stage with people that you're just like, I don't how I'm from Somerton, How did I? How did I? How am I standing up here on this stage with this person? And those are the moments that I'm so grateful for and that you can't plan. Um that they just kind of worked themselves out and happened, and it's you just walk away going, man, what a what an incredible blessing this has all been. We had a guy called our show probably a month or so agost. Name is Gary from Wisconsin, and Gary said that he had been to over seventy five little big town shows. Gary. Yeah, I saw a picture that Gary had posted because he tagged because we were talking with him about it, and he said he'll drive five hours. His first show was in Las Vegas. I I asked you this in a loving, extremely respectful way, why would someone come to sevent show? Our fans are incredible. It's the country music fan, man. They they buy in and and I think it's more than just the music. They buy into who you are and or at least you know who they feel like you are. You know, the your story, um, and I think that's that's been the big thing of that. But yeah, man, I think about that too. I'm like, man, I have to sometimes I don't want to get up here either just to do it, you know, you get tired or whatever. But man, what that's that's our fans there, incredible. You guys have very very passionate it's it's incredible. The Bandwagon Tour Miranda A Little Big Town with special guests of Catalact three. A Little Big Town dot com if you want to get tickets. Are you still enjoying playing shows? I mean, is it still there? Is it still there? Is having a blast? I love it and I love all of it still, And I think that's something that, UM, I kind of look at all the time, like when we're in the studio, like, man, I still love this as much. I'm still as passionate about all the different parts of this UM business that we're in that I just I just love it. I just being out with Miranda. There's nothing better than this tour right now. UM, I think for all of us just showing up in the the friendship and you know, it's like we're talking about hanging out at the pool at noon. A lot of tours you go on done it's not like that, UM, But we have some really great friends and this has been a blast, and I absolutely can't wait to get up there and play the and we'll wrap with this but the end, I still think A Little White Church holds up with any song ever I played all the time on him like a dance party, and uh, it just feels good. It's a beat. It's the end of that, which is probably my favorite thing that you guys do when you're all it almost feels a bit uh Doobie Brother's dish, I think exactly. I'm not confused, confused. I played a little white church this morning. Yeah, the vocal realm, Yeah yeah, I like that a lot. What is just your part by itself in the round with nobody else who? Uh? Because Philip starts off the round and he goes, you get okay, I'll do that. Okay, you get a line, I get a pole. We're gonna go fishing in the cravat five got bogger a Saturday night church on Sunday morning. You get fishing. I come in on that. You get a lot? Yeah, you got to be a little more dynamically, And I'll be honest with you. One part is never dynamic. Well let's and it's I thought about that. What if I just showed up sometimes some somebody asked me to sing, and I stepped up and I only sang the background vocals hilarious and please record it because that's the content. They're like, Hey, once you play one of your songs that you and I only sing. Yeah, they're like, hey, jimmen do a girl crush and You're like, I'll lay off the entire verse and then um taste lips tastes like you. Wouldn't that be great? That would be TikTok viral versure Uh follow Jimmy at Jimmy Westbrook on Instagram. J I M I and at a Little Big Town and the new single. I don't say the name of the new single because I don't curse. So I will say, here's the song about a little big town, but I will never say the name of it. So there you have it. Wow, I'm impressed you don't cuss. I haven't for six years. Well, I didn't do it because I'm a good person. I did it because writing, if I'm writing stand up, I don't curse. I'm a stand up writing kids books, writing, I don't. I won't allow myself to curse there. So I just said I don't need to use it all the time because I'll crutch it. I think that's fantastic. I hear so much music right now that I'm like, there are a lot more words to choose, and I know we have some words in ours. But yeah, it's a crutch for some. I like it. I like to hear it. I just a lot. I don't like to hear it because it pops up on my kids playlist and I'm like, bro, he can't be listening to that. Well, Jimmy, it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much, ma'am. And bye. We just did basically an hour here and you and I have just not been able to tell you're the way. It's the last piece over the past five years individually. You were the last part to talk to you like this. I appreciate it. So all right, we're talking to you man. I got a bath running. We'll hop over just alright, Jimmy Westbrook, all right, by everybody.