Dancing with…Cheryl Burke

00:00:14
Speaker 1: Oh Hello, I am Danielle Fischel, whose name is not only in the title of this show, but I'm also a TV director, a podcaster, a mom of two, and now called Tapanga by cool teen girls at my local Menchi' yogurt shop thanks to Dancing with the Stars popularity on TikTok and God bless them for that, and maybe, just maybe they're following along with my journey thanks to this podcast, where I am chronicling my entire process learning things like the Argentine tango and what compression leggings are, all in the hopes of holding a Len Goodman mirror Ball trophy above my head like a seasoned hockey player finally drinking champagne out of the Stanley Cup. And along the way, I will be chatting with prose, former contestants, modern peers, and absolute legends in hopes that the knowledge can get me even closer to that final boss and unexpected victory. And this week I say the word legend with extra emphasis. She joined Dancing with the Stars in season two and participated on the show for a whopping twenty five seasons, setting her as the professional with the most seasons to her name. She has two mirror Ball trophies to go along with that distinction, and worth noting those victories were in her first and second seasons, so learning curves be damned, and now she will be making a triumphant return to the ballroom to be guest judge for the upcoming Halloween Night, a yearly tradition that constantly proves itself as one of the most entertaining and sometimes unpredictable of the year. It would be impossible to mention Dancing with the Stars as a franchise without mentioning my guest this week. I'm honored to be sitting with a pioneer of the competition, Cheryl Burke.

00:02:05
Speaker 2: Hi. I was just gonna I was about to say how impressed I am with you. Oh so impressed. I'm an Argentine tango snob.

00:02:14
Speaker 3: Are you thank you? Okay?

00:02:16
Speaker 1: I really want to talk to you about it, because well, for one thing, your opinion means a great deal to.

00:02:21
Speaker 3: Me, and and two I have I have.

00:02:25
Speaker 1: My feelings on it, but you know, I know, I know absolutely nothing, and I know Pasha is like Argentine tango is just his thing.

00:02:34
Speaker 3: Also like similar to you, the.

00:02:36
Speaker 2: Best partner for Argentine tango.

00:02:38
Speaker 3: He really is.

00:02:39
Speaker 1: I mean, he's I think he's just the best partner period. But I mean, I just can't say enough wonderful things about him.

00:02:45
Speaker 2: But so I do.

00:02:46
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about the Argentine Okay, but I'm going to save it for a little bit later because I want to jump into right away this very big announcement that you are returning to the Dancing with the Stars ballroom. How excited are you to be in a judge's chair for Halloween Night?

00:03:05
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, first of all, just to be in the judge's chair, just to hear that. It's so surreal. I you know, just a little backstory for any new fans, because there are tons of them.

00:03:15
Speaker 3: Oh yes, you know.

00:03:17
Speaker 2: I started back in two thousand and six. I did twenty a total of twenty six seasons, but including juniors, so technically I guess I've only had twenty three partners if you really want to analyze it. But it has been such a my It's been two decades of my life basically, right, So most of my life I've been on the show, and I have, you know, gone through it just emotionally. As far as now being a fan right, because like though, of course you know, I retired, it was my decision, It's still such an emotional journey, even if I'm not a part of it anymore, and to be able to come back, the show has really like in a way, started over, but has a whole new fan base and is so popular, and I'm just so happy for the show. I've been back here behind my screen just cheering everybody on because I know what it takes and I know how grueling but yet how life changing this experience is.

00:04:20
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, they are lucky to have you in that judge's chair. I'm so excited to see you there next week. Having had Kim Johnson there two weeks ago and everyone loved her in that fourth chair. I think you're going to be able to bring the same thing she brought, which is you have been on all sides of it. You do know it from the inside. You have worked with the celebs. You know what it takes to teach, to win, to struggle, to sometimes disagree with your partner. You know what it's like to you know, not have control over your music, not have control over what your production is that week, to have very strong thoughts about things and not necessarily get your way and to have very legitimate tips for all of us about what we can be doing to improve because you have had to teach twenty three partners and you won in your first two.

00:05:20
Speaker 2: Seasons back in nineteen sixty two.

00:05:23
Speaker 3: Don't do it.

00:05:24
Speaker 2: Don't age like that, you know, Yes, I mean when you put it like that, yeah, I know. I know exactly what it's like. Even if the show has changed. Obviously we all evolve, things evolve, but it's still back to the foundation of what the show is, which, like I said, is an emotional rollercoaster. But if you allow it, if you surrender to the experience and trust the process and just take it like literally one step at a time, don't even think about the dance, like think about what's what's your next one, your next step like, because you're at the point now or Talloween night and you're getting introduced to two dances and this ain't gonna get easier, you know. But what is going to get easier is you know what it's like. Now, you know what it's like, And this is where you really have to trust the process and literally just surrendered to Pasha, which is easy to do because he knows what he's doing.

00:06:23
Speaker 1: Yes, I've been saying trust the Pasha and trust the Pasha.

00:06:27
Speaker 2: I love that.

00:06:28
Speaker 3: It's a little spin on trust the process, but it works.

00:06:31
Speaker 1: And I just I have, I have just when he tells me to do something, I go okay, and and so.

00:06:38
Speaker 3: How do I do that?

00:06:38
Speaker 1: And you know, this last week was a was a good experience, a good opportunity to show that because I've never done lifts, aside from the.

00:06:45
Speaker 3: Fact that I've never done any sort of dan.

00:06:47
Speaker 2: You don't end in that dip every night, so we have.

00:06:50
Speaker 3: Never been nose to the ground before like that.

00:06:54
Speaker 2: So yeah, your nose to the girl round. He got you well.

00:06:59
Speaker 1: During rehearsal, we actually were we were millimeters from my face hitting because even better, Yeah, I know, And I was like, do it again, but but this time I won't put my pands there because like, as you know, you can have like a thousand thoughts go through your head in such a short amount of time. And we were spinning in the air and we had so much momentum. And then I could tell based on the way he rolled me that he did not actually have me.

00:07:23
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, the wood floor's going really goodly.

00:07:26
Speaker 1: And and it got to about right here and he was literally he's gripping my leg like this, and I.

00:07:32
Speaker 2: Put wearing tights right, I was wearing slippering.

00:07:35
Speaker 1: Yes, And the dress was you know that, like Mesh, and you looked stunning.

00:07:41
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, stunning. Thank you?

00:07:44
Speaker 2: Who's doing your makeup this season?

00:07:46
Speaker 3: Lois?

00:07:47
Speaker 2: She's amazing. I mean they're all amazing.

00:07:49
Speaker 3: They're all amazing you.

00:07:50
Speaker 2: But Luis so underrated the Department of because.

00:07:54
Speaker 3: Yet they're Emmy winning, And I agree with you.

00:07:56
Speaker 2: I mean they need to win Oscar. I mean, not like the show was Oscar worthy, but you know what I'm saying. I know they're just like when whenever they don't win, I'm just shocked.

00:08:05
Speaker 3: Correct. That is the feeling is how do they not win? Every years?

00:08:07
Speaker 2: It's there to ask you a question. Yeah, did you request Pasha?

00:08:12
Speaker 1: I did not request Pasha. I actually requested someone else and I didn't get my wish.

00:08:19
Speaker 2: Okay, do you have any regrets?

00:08:21
Speaker 3: Zero?

00:08:34
Speaker 1: When you were on the show, was Halloween Night always a favorite for you?

00:08:41
Speaker 2: I am a passionate person.

00:08:43
Speaker 1: Okay, because you don't know that about me, it comes across and I love it.

00:08:48
Speaker 2: I love those passionate, sultry, dark dances. I think that there's something obviously I don't. You know, I never liked to fake emotion when I perform. So this is why I hate the jive for example, because I'm like, sometimes I don't feel like I want to be all happy, go lucky all the time. You know, it's easier for me to find that like dark place for some reason. But the dark I like to turn into fire and like passion, especially the music. It's all about the music, right. You can give me a you can give me a passionate dance and then have like some campy song and I'm just like, oh what I waste? Like you said, we have no choice.

00:09:25
Speaker 3: Sometimes sometimes you're just handed the song.

00:09:27
Speaker 2: You're handed that a lot, and it is what it is, just the process. But I love Halloweend for that now. I don't like getting scared, like I the Oscar movie in my head sometimes because I you know, I live alone with my with my French feet, and I mean it would be shocking if I ever put this to pen or to paper, my thoughts of like what could happen to me at night? And just like I can't even watch like it's the music. I've realized it's the music.

00:09:56
Speaker 3: It is the music.

00:09:58
Speaker 2: The action, it's the music.

00:10:00
Speaker 1: If you mute a scary movie, you can watch it without any emotion at all.

00:10:04
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, oh, yeah.

00:10:05
Speaker 2: But David Arquette did Dancing with the staras he took all of us to Hollywood Horror Nights, and I wore air pods or I don't even know there was air pods back then, but anyway, I wore headphones headphones and literally people just kept popping out. I mean, I was like, I was totally fine. It's the music.

00:10:18
Speaker 3: It's music, really smart, really smart.

00:10:20
Speaker 1: If I get asked to go to those things with friends all the time, and I'm like, guys, I don't want to.

00:10:24
Speaker 3: Be the fuddy duddy, but I don't want to do that.

00:10:27
Speaker 1: I don't like spending any time of my leg jumping out of my skin, with my cortisol spiking and like my heart racing. I don't want that. That does not sound like an enjoyable Is anyone interested in going for a meal?

00:10:40
Speaker 2: Are you hungry a good old conversation?

00:10:44
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:10:46
Speaker 2: Right right, Like I know, I agree, And by the way, if you want to take it further, like imagine. I mean, it's so easy now a days just to you know, be that person who goes crazy. I'm not even gonna put it out there. All you have to do is like wear a screen mask and you're screwed, like you never.

00:11:03
Speaker 3: Know, correct, you never You're right.

00:11:05
Speaker 1: I don't want to put myself in at any situations where that becomes easier. I want to talk to you specifically about some of your own Halloween dances, mainly your Oingo Boingo performance with Jan Pablo to Dead Man's Party.

00:11:19
Speaker 2: Oh my god, do you remember God? Of course I remember it. I'm gonna be Cleopatra. Halloween nights are again. Yes, I want. I want to be able to get that head piece, but I don't think I can.

00:11:31
Speaker 1: Oh, it's reach out to Oh really, I was gonna say, reach out to Danielle.

00:11:34
Speaker 3: Maybe they still at it somewhere.

00:11:36
Speaker 2: I know. I see what my stylence comes up with. But it's so weird like that, I don't have fittings. Like the whole thing. It's gonna be like home, going home, but it's also going to be like, Wow, this is a different perspective, which I'm so excited to, uh experience.

00:11:50
Speaker 1: Totally do you remember, well, I guess, I guess. You know remember those otfs where remember those?

00:11:56
Speaker 2: Of course, I remember those those master interviews. I basically interview myself. When I got COVID and I danced for my living room, I had to do my own master interview.

00:12:06
Speaker 3: How did that happen?

00:12:07
Speaker 1: I mean, how did that work when you got COVID and then you were dancing from your living room?

00:12:11
Speaker 2: I don't know, because it was actually I was like, oh wait, I could do different jobs on this show, not just teach. I was like I could be the set director, I could be a field producer. Probably. I just felt like it was really fun. Though. What wasn't fun was being like out of breath of two seconds right exactly and yeah, and having to teach. What they didn't show was the next week we had two dances and I had to teach my partner Cody via Zoom both dances because he was still in New York and he couldn't fly because he had COVID.

00:12:44
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, teaching via Zoom dance drive.

00:12:51
Speaker 3: Wow, never forget it.

00:12:53
Speaker 1: There's some different dances too, like on opposite ends of the spundrooms.

00:12:58
Speaker 2: Well, we still had COVID now, oh, God of luck.

00:13:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that is really bad. How did dancing?

00:13:04
Speaker 1: Would the stars first enter your life? How did they reach out to you and ask you to come be a pro?

00:13:09
Speaker 2: I was a competitor, so I had just turned pro in the industry of ballroom dancing, and I was living in Harlem at the time with my dance partner, Slush Boyfriend, and I was We went to compete in a competition in Los Angeles called the California Open, and I remember seeing Season one had just wrapped, and I of course watched it, you know, because it had like Charlotta Jorgensen, who was I think she won with John and Hurley. Yeah, no, Kelly, No, she won first anyway, whoa Anyway, then I saw Louis Yeah, like I said, nineteen sixty one, Louie was on and I was like, oh, this is not going to last long. I said, this is kind of cheesy. I was like, hey, but more power to them, but I'll never do it. I had, like I was at the height of my career. So you know, in the industry, the judges, the adjudicators, they expect your partnerships to last long, right, So when you always constantly switch or you pause and then you come back, you kind of start all over again, and that is a longer journey. And I felt like I was literally at the peak of my career and I did not. I would have never because someone did ask me, just like casually, like would you ever do that? I'm like, no, unless my partner decides to leave me, Like no, I wouldn't. And I also knew it was going to be temporary, but same with my dance career, but not as temporary. I didn't think it was going to last twenty six or sorry, I didn't think it was gonna last however many seasons? How many seasons? Is it?

00:14:36
Speaker 3: Thirty four and twenty years?

00:14:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't wait till they celebrate the hundredth season. We're all going to come in with walkers.

00:14:45
Speaker 3: Oh god.

00:14:49
Speaker 2: But yeah, So they saw me compete, and I think they wanted to recruit more dancers for season two because they only had six couples for season one. Then they jumped up to seas twelve couples. And so I went in for an interview. Okay, so I don't I had no voice, like not like meaning like you asked me what my favorite color was, no idea I had no identity, poor little Cheryl, I had no identity. You know, I was very much okay, I guess, with just not being a leader in that sense, like this is the ballroom. This was no longer, but this was I would say that ballroom industry words. It was a man's the world. Not so much now at all. But you know, my partner was like twelve years my senior, and it's like I he was used to being a pro. I had just turned pro. So like I didn't think for myself ever. Ever, So when I had to cut in and do an interview, when my little pink fringe spaghetti like fringe costume with my short little hair, I was so nervous I could barely talk. I had like a little mousey voice. So I do credit Dancing with the Stars for giving me my voice.

00:15:58
Speaker 1: Wow were you at the time twenty gosh so young?

00:16:04
Speaker 2: I know, I was twenty one. I auditioned and then I started when I was twenty one. My goodness, forty one.

00:16:10
Speaker 1: Now, I mean, what a beautiful story and relationship then that you liked All relationships a bit of a roller coaster, I'm sure highs and lows, but what a yeah, like anything, But what an amazing thing to be able to look back at twenty year old you and recognize a totally different person totally and to say, while of course hopefully giving yourself a lot of credit, of course, but to say, had not if not for this show coming into my life at twenty, who knows how long it could have taken for you to break out of a very male dominated space and to start to find your voice. So what a gift that was, and what a beautiful thing that you're even able to recognize it and acknowledge it.

00:16:56
Speaker 2: That's so yeah, absolutely, I mean, like the I had to I had to speak up for myself, like there was no there was no way around it. Though. It took me a couple of years, but it was like it was training one on one, like I had to do this. I was on a show.

00:17:09
Speaker 1: Wow, So they hire you, and now you pretty much immediately change your mind. You go, I'm you had gone from saying I will never do that show to deciding to accept doing the show.

00:17:18
Speaker 3: How did that go over with your partner?

00:17:23
Speaker 4: Right?

00:17:23
Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, So actually I was going to go back to my partner to my Competitive Live after season two because there was no pick up yet right away, at least to season three. But we knew it was going to happen. However, it was still another year right for that to happen. So but because we were involved romantically, it's just all I'll say, it's just got a little slucky, got fettle messy and got messy and just didn't work unfortunately. But again I'm grateful for everything in my life. Also wouldn't be here today.

00:17:51
Speaker 3: Right yeah.

00:17:52
Speaker 1: Okay, So you then you end up going back to the show. You win your first season, by the way, hello incredible. You then go back after you did your first season, did your mind kind of change about the show? Did you then start to recognize like, I think they've got something here?

00:18:09
Speaker 2: I think it right away? Okay, it changed right away. It changed from the moment because I mind you, Michael was never to be on TV. I was going to be a ballroom different. I was gonna if when I retired, because you know, as women you retire probably thirties. I was going to just dudicate like I was going to let you know, right.

00:18:28
Speaker 3: So old, so old got to retire.

00:18:30
Speaker 2: But that's it is what it is. Especially as women, men have a way longer of a career than women. It's like athletes, right, Like you can only go so long unfortunately, but within that time, you don't think about what's next. You just are in it, you know. And that is another conversation we'll have because there is that missing piece where it's like, oh my god, now what because I still have my whole life ahead of me exactly.

00:18:54
Speaker 1: I know, I've retired from this thing I've been doing for, by the way, twenty years, and now and now what do I do?

00:19:00
Speaker 3: What do I dedicate myself to? Yeah?

00:19:02
Speaker 2: Really really learn how to set boundaries? Now what what does that mean?

00:19:08
Speaker 3: Totally?

00:19:09
Speaker 2: God?

00:19:09
Speaker 3: What?

00:19:09
Speaker 1: Even just learning what a boundary is is like such a learning curve when you're a young woman who has basically been at the whim of adale and.

00:19:19
Speaker 2: I literally just learned it.

00:19:21
Speaker 1: I also just learned it. Well, feel like I just learned it about ten years ago in my in my mid in my early thirties, thirty fourish, I was like.

00:19:31
Speaker 3: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, I've had no I've had no boundaries.

00:19:37
Speaker 2: Oh right, oh and I'm allowed no, no, it's a complete sentence. Wait what yeah?

00:19:42
Speaker 3: Yeah? Really crazy.

00:19:43
Speaker 2: As long as you learn it, that's all that.

00:19:45
Speaker 1: Matters, absolutely absolutely better late than ever. In your first season, you were paired with one of my favorite people in the world, Duliship. I love him so much. Uh, and you win the mirror Ball. Did you always see from day one as a contender or did that grow as the season went on?

00:20:04
Speaker 2: Well? No, But this is the thing. This is I think this is why I was successful because it was never about that. It was about I mean, for me, it wasn't. Of course they gave you those lines, but I just refuse to say those lines like I didn't I for me, it was honestly about just improving a little bit next week. It just that was it, Like when I and I tried it every way possible. As you can imagine, I have been mirror ball hungry one season after I won my first two. That didn't work. It just it doesn't work when you think too far ahead of the game. And I knew this, and so my job is to calm my partner done when my partner gets too ahead of himself, right, and to really and it forces you to be present because that's all you can be. Yeah, because the future is going to stress your out. Don't worry about it. There's nothing to worry about, stop making things up.

00:20:57
Speaker 1: There's also, when it all comes down to it, very little within your control. And so let's just fun on the things that are in our control, like what what your next step is, what you're hurt, what you're gonna wear, like you know.

00:21:12
Speaker 3: Let's let's kind of ish.

00:21:14
Speaker 1: Let's let's have a hand in the things we have a hand in, and why we stress ourselves out about all of the many things that are just completely out of our control.

00:21:23
Speaker 2: And this is where Pasha is amazing, because this is what you know. He's very, very in tune and self aware and I really appreciate that.

00:21:31
Speaker 1: He really is. Danny calls him Buddha, and I'm yeah.

00:21:35
Speaker 2: He's real. He really didn't hurt last night.

00:21:38
Speaker 1: Uh not last night, but this week he was. He was in a little bit of pain.

00:21:42
Speaker 2: Okay, because it looked like a little bit he was winsing last night during your remarks.

00:21:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, we we both are really bad.

00:21:49
Speaker 2: Sure, let me tell you this is the competition. This is if this is in the comp like where you are right now is where it's exhausted. It's like, okay, wait, I'm feeling it. But honestly, after this week, it's going to go byself fast, so and just really take just enjoy this process. Maybe or maybe not next week. You have to feel like this for two weeks, okay, But after I promise and it's gonna get the two dances, you will be okay. But again, don't worry about that.

00:22:19
Speaker 3: I know it's not you to think about exactly.

00:22:22
Speaker 2: You're not in control of it anyway, don't even worry.

00:22:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:22:25
Speaker 1: Well, this this year, we have really seen some hot topics throughout the season that have come up, partially because there is such a whole new fan base to the show. And one of the hot topics is the dichotomy between those who have dance experience and those who do not. I would love to hear your opinion, since you started so early in the show when I feel like correct me if I'm wrong. Very early on, one of the hooks of the show was that people were supposed to not have dance experience when they came on to the show, But since then it's evolved over time. What is your opinion on previous dance experience coming into Dancing with the Stars.

00:23:08
Speaker 2: I don't I believe every season there's always a dancer there's always this is nothing new as far as dance experience goes. It doesn't necessarily work in your favor, Like if you've actually watched the show, I mean, I can name tons of people who should have won, because this is also not purely a dance competition.

00:23:30
Speaker 3: Obviously obviously not yeah so and if.

00:23:34
Speaker 2: That was the case, the show maybe would have not continued on if the public had no say in the votes, right, Like this is engaging, This is an engaging show, and we must work together or not. Like you know, you have an opinion, you can vote, You guys are at what a hundred million votes? That's insanity?

00:23:52
Speaker 3: Crazy?

00:23:54
Speaker 2: Is the voting system? I don't know if you would know, but is it different? Because like you have ten you can vote ten times no matter what, or only once per fione line.

00:24:03
Speaker 1: No, you can vote twenty times per so twenty times ten on the internet, ten via text, and for as many couples as you want.

00:24:13
Speaker 2: So I could vote, like let's say I did ten for you last night, I can also do ten.

00:24:17
Speaker 1: For correct correct, And then you could go on your computer and you could vote ten for Dylan and ten.

00:24:23
Speaker 2: For me on your American idol from back exactly.

00:24:27
Speaker 1: So that's where it is, like, you know, fifty million votes in one night, exactly, it's not fifty million people or yeah.

00:24:35
Speaker 3: It's it.

00:24:36
Speaker 1: It's okay, Yeah, that's one of the reasons it's able to be so high.

00:24:41
Speaker 2: Like, holy, one hundred million people. You guys are.

00:24:44
Speaker 3: Killing it exactly. The ratings are good, but they're not bad good right, Yeah.

00:24:49
Speaker 2: But they've always wanted this younger demographic and now they're getting it.

00:24:53
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:24:53
Speaker 1: I think social media had a lot to do with that, for sure. I also I'm a I'm a Dallas Boys fan. So you had Emmitt Smith and one with Emmitt Smith throwing all the theories about the fact that you know, Drew lache one because he was musical or had boy band, throwing that right out the window.

00:25:17
Speaker 2: Okay, here's a perfect example. Mario Lopez, Hello, we beat him. Like what, it's not a dance competition, Mario was a better dancer, Like, let's just be.

00:25:25
Speaker 1: Real, yep, but it is. It's such a it is again those things you can't control. You can't control how you are.

00:25:33
Speaker 3: Perceived by others.

00:25:35
Speaker 2: And now, but you know what you can do is you understand why people rally behind people is because like psychologically, you see you want to see struggle. Yeah, yeah, like or else there just why would anyone root for you if there's no if there's not ever any struggle. So if they don't show it in your package, it's your job to show it and your social media.

00:25:58
Speaker 3: Really smart, really smart.

00:26:00
Speaker 1: I would like to also mention your third season on the show is no slouch. After winning your first two seasons. You took Iron Zering to fourth place. What is it about these competitors or Christian de la Fuente, Ocho Cinco, Rob Kardashian, Cody Rigsby. What did they all have in common that helped that helped you bring them to the place you brought them.

00:26:23
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think they've had they had anything in common. I really don't. I don't think so, because for example, Christian de la Fuente broke his arm on live TV and dropped me on my head. And so that's I mean, I don't know if you want to that struggle right there. So people are going to rally behind that, right So we made the final. Jack Osborne, he's just a beautiful person and that helps when I really like you as a person, you know, I think I am invested in a different way. It's not just a job, okay for me, right, So I think that's also important, just because I can't fake it. I'm really bad at it everything with bo talks and all. You'll see it on my face. Like if I don't like so, I can't. I can't do it. I can't lie.

00:27:05
Speaker 3: I am exactly exactly the same way.

00:27:07
Speaker 1: I if I'm thinking something, it's gonna be on my face, and it's it is both a blessing and a curse.

00:27:15
Speaker 2: It's a curse.

00:27:16
Speaker 3: It's a curse. It is a curse.

00:27:17
Speaker 1: I mean, you're right, I consider it a blessing because I do pride myself on authenticity and so you know, I guess it's just a part of that.

00:27:26
Speaker 3: It goes with it.

00:27:27
Speaker 1: But boy, that times handle it though. No, that that is true for sure. You're not gonna be everyone's favorite.

00:27:33
Speaker 2: No, but I know I have to say, I just I think maybe the common denominator back then at least. It's just that I only know ballroom. That's my expertise. I'm not gonna pretend I do contemporary because I would beg to never get contemporary. I was like, you guys want to watch a skit. Do you want to watch SNL, then give me contemporary.

00:27:52
Speaker 1: Honestly, I kind of want to see an SNL skit as a contemporary.

00:27:55
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie.

00:27:57
Speaker 2: I feel like my old contemporaries. It'll make It'll just get feel rolling.

00:28:01
Speaker 3: Did you ever get outside help?

00:28:03
Speaker 2: Of course, you can take the ballroom dances right, even every every week I would make my partners go to another studio that I would rent at nighttime and walk his out to death. Absolutely, if you allowed it, I would do it now. The person who didn't allow it set boundary. Speaking of Emmett Smith, was like, I'm giving you four hours, my friend, and that's.

00:28:23
Speaker 3: It, right.

00:28:24
Speaker 1: He's like, look, whatever you can do in these four hours is what you get.

00:28:28
Speaker 2: It's a miracle. And we were flying back and forth to Dallas at the time, so that was hard.

00:28:32
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

00:28:33
Speaker 1: I have thought about that a couple of times because there were there were a couple of people that were talking about flying back and forth, and I was like, before you start the show, they tell you we will work around your schedule.

00:28:44
Speaker 3: And so when you when you.

00:28:46
Speaker 1: Don't know what you're in for, do you think, oh, apparently I could have like a normal job and.

00:28:51
Speaker 3: Also do dancing with Yeah.

00:28:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, nope, no, not if you want to. Yeah, I'm I'm not doing any of that. I gave up everything. I've abandoned my family I had, I canceled all my work. I barely I barely sleep. I twenty three hours of my.

00:29:07
Speaker 3: Day dancing with the stars. Listen.

00:29:11
Speaker 1: If there's one thing I love to do, it's grind. So I'm fine, I'm finding the time. But it's truly I did laugh. I have laughed so many times at the thought where I was like, oh, well, I could be directing this week, but oh unfortunately the taping is also where what.

00:29:25
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? A thing that's also my drug of choice, the hustle.

00:29:30
Speaker 3: Oh boy, that for sure is mine as well.

00:29:33
Speaker 2: Can I ask you what your dances are this week?

00:29:34
Speaker 3: Yes, we are doing a Viennese waltz.

00:29:37
Speaker 2: Ooh oh, You're gonna be fine. This is the easiest dance.

00:29:40
Speaker 1: I'm so excited and we're doing it to Die with a Smile by Bruno Mars and Lady Gaga.

00:29:45
Speaker 2: Oh aren't you always doing team dances?

00:29:47
Speaker 3: Is we're doing a marathon dance?

00:29:49
Speaker 2: We have to do oh that's the worst we have to do.

00:29:53
Speaker 3: Hustle, Hustle and jive how oh no, sorry, Hustle and Lindy Hop.

00:30:00
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes more sense.

00:30:01
Speaker 3: Hustle and Lindy Hop.

00:30:03
Speaker 2: Oh like, how are they cuting the music? I know?

00:30:06
Speaker 1: So yeah, So the first the first two minutes is hustle, where there's going to be nine of us on the grid, and then they're gonna get rid of five and then there will be four people your mouth.

00:30:15
Speaker 2: Like, literally watch it. There's lists involved and everything in Hustle. Oh yeah, there's lifts in Lindy and Hustles and you guys are all sharing the floor for the first time. So this is where you, for the women's celebrities, trust your partners because you don't want to get knocked in the mouth quite literally.

00:30:30
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Well also, I just want to, like, you.

00:30:34
Speaker 2: Know, just savor your energy, right, like don't don't went on bam, thank you ma'am. And then you're like, so it's stamina. It's really about that. Yeah, you can last the longest doing.

00:30:44
Speaker 3: A minute and a half long dance.

00:30:45
Speaker 1: At the end of it, you're only a minute and a half. No, No, the normal dances like right now. Like last night was a minute and a half and at the end of a minute and a half, I can't breathe.

00:30:52
Speaker 3: I have no fluid in my mouth at all. It's like where did all the saliva go? I can't waltz.

00:30:57
Speaker 2: You have You're good, You're good.

00:30:59
Speaker 3: I know this. We is going to be this week's three steps.

00:31:01
Speaker 2: There's only three steps maximum.

00:31:03
Speaker 1: And we've got like, we've got some cool some cool things we want to do, some cool tricks, and we have. We've been really working on backstory, Like we've got a great backstory, which the only way anyone's going to understand the backstories if we set it up in our package. So tomorrow or tonight is our master interview. So we've talked about how we're going to set it up so that people understand what the story is when they watch it.

00:31:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, all I can say is transitions are key, more important than anything else.

00:31:29
Speaker 3: Okay, transitions for specifically this dance, for.

00:31:32
Speaker 2: This dance specifically, yes, but also for every dance moving forward. Just as much attention you put to the tricks in the flash, Yeah, you'll get there. It's never about that. It's about how you get out and get in in yeah, you know, in the trick, right.

00:31:47
Speaker 3: I thought that was a really good note.

00:31:49
Speaker 1: It was like the first thing John M two said last night, it's so true all judging and he was like the transitions, and I was like.

00:31:55
Speaker 2: Oh, the devil's in the detail, and that's what we mean, the details in the transitions. It's about the actual that uh at the you know what I mean? Like no one cares about that.

00:32:04
Speaker 1: Oh I love this advice. The word stacked has been thrown around NonStop this year. Have you been impressed by this season's contestants compared to Yeah, okay.

00:32:30
Speaker 2: Yes, look I believe that there is a beautiful mix right of people with yes dance experience, but also imagine if no one had dance experience, Okay, especially going into a seasoned show. This show is it's a machine and we need that, like we need the mix now for any new fans thinking that people pick their music, like Mark Ballas does not pick his music, you know, and it is what it is. There's no favoritism, believe me. Okay, yeah, like if anyone knows, it's me like, it's just it's not. It may look like that, but that's all in your head. This is not happening, and believe me, standards in practice, the show wouldn't go on for as long as it's been going on if there was favoritism, Like that makes no sense.

00:33:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I interviewed Ezrasosa, he was saying, and I thought it was a really great way of thinking about it for these newer fans. If something feels like favoritism, it might be that the pro, because of all of the experience that they have, is using all of the tools in their tool belt in a better way than another pro might be. That is not unsaved. That's not favoritism, it's experience.

00:33:47
Speaker 2: It can't even manipulate the music department like you can't like it just so happens that they haven't done this dance to this song that everyone loves like it's just a Cohen's it really is.

00:33:55
Speaker 1: But like for example with Mark last night and popular, Mark having being a musician, was able to sit with the music department, but everyone can, you know, totally, that's my point. But he knows how to do it. I'm not saying it's fair. I'm saying that's a tool in his tool belt as a musician and a dancer to say here's how I think this would sound the greatest. And if someone else doesn't have that ability, that's not unfair. That's why should Mark not use his skills to help make his dance come alive. There's that's creative.

00:34:30
Speaker 2: And even if you don't like I have, I mean I played, I was forced to play the piano when I was younger. But that's as far as it goes.

00:34:36
Speaker 3: I mean you could still work with totally.

00:34:39
Speaker 2: The orchestra, the band. I mean they actually want that now. It's about I think some of the maybe new newer dancers might just be a little shy, and that's okay, like to ask you know, you know you don't want to. I just know that. Like everyone's like on their best behavior too, and then we don't want to extra any Everyone wants to be a team, of course, and I think that it'll you know, it'll happen like as you experienced the show and you know, as the pros come back, like it's you can't take the experience away from somebody though. And that's the thing. We even know. I even know what's in their storage as far as props go, So like I'm like, okay, wait, we can use this from storage That's.

00:35:20
Speaker 1: My point is that you having a wealth of knowledge and experience and being and knowing that you can ask for it is not an unfair advantage.

00:35:29
Speaker 2: It just ask what's the worst that could happen? They say, no, exactly, Okay.

00:35:33
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

00:35:34
Speaker 1: Another very hot topic this year is online discourse. We have entered an era where the thin line between being a big sam and engaging in toxic discourse has never been thinner. Yeah, what have been your thoughts watching along as the show hits new social media milestones, both good and bad.

00:36:00
Speaker 2: Reading the comments, I mean, also just personally right, I've noticed that it's been on a whole other level. Now, I remember back in two thousand and six, we weren't dealing with social media. We were dealing with the message boards. You were just as cruel. Actually, my mother would send me them. I'm like, first of all, don't do that one thing too. Yeah, let's just keep that to yourself, thank you. But it is nasty, you know, the way that people get dehumanized and the way people believe that they are allowed to do that to others. Yes, what kills me is women doing this to other women, right, you know, and that and if my platform turns into me trying to knock some sense into people and talking about how we need to support each other rather than go against each other. And I sound like a broken record, so be it, because not everybody will stick up for themselves in that sense. And it's a real thing. It's a real thing. And whether you want to call it bullying or just complete just it's shocking. It is shocking. And I can't even block enough people. It's just too many of them now, there's just too many. And so that's what's sad is that the younger generation they're watching this. Of course they're watching and but you know, like you can't control everything, but you know, I will continue to control what I can, which is my social media platform. I mean, get off my platform first of all, if you're gonna, if you're so, you know, And the way that they come at the show as well, it's like, you know, look, I appreciate the passion behind these TikTokers make and you can see their engagement goes up. So they can see their engagement goes up when they talk about it, and they're going to have controversial opinions now whether or not they believe it or whether or not they're feeding into the engagement in the numbers is a whole nother conversation. These people are not experts, No, they're not. They're just saying something very controversial. They have a great hook in their video and people are watching from beginning to end. And that's about it. That's what you can take from it, because you can't take anything unless this person's a professional ballroom dancer. It's nonsense. It's nonsense.

00:38:07
Speaker 3: You know.

00:38:07
Speaker 1: I have a very good friend who is also a very public figure, and one of the things he's talked about and has has actually done in the past is when someone leaves a really nasty comment or sends a really nasty DM, replying, Wow, that really hurt my feelings. That was hard for me to read, and I'm I don't know if that's what you wanted me to feel, but it really was very tough for me to read. And every single time the response is I didn't think you would even see this.

00:38:46
Speaker 3: I didn't know. I'm so sorry. I am actually a big fan. Every time the yeah.

00:38:53
Speaker 1: It's really you know, in this in this world of feeling like social media has made us more connected, I think we are more isolated and alone than we've ever been. And I think a large majority of those really nasty comments or cries for a cries for help.

00:39:15
Speaker 2: And it and in a negative, nasty way, they're finding community within that. And look, there's also the beautiful side of social media. Yeah right, there's also community. I mean I used to be so good at stopping myself from I never scrolled ever in my life, so like until recently, until and then you know, obviously you need to respond to people, and it's it's harder to I mean, you can put this care content thing up, like I TikTok what's bad now? Instagram is so bad right now? And oh yeah for me it is. Yeah, And I actually stopped posting on TikTok ily post like once a week randomly. I used to do this day like it was like multiple times a day. But I just don't trust. I don't feel safe.

00:39:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you have a social media team or is it just you?

00:40:02
Speaker 2: One person who takes care of my YouTube only? Okay, okay, editing that is, I do everything else. But it's a full time job.

00:40:08
Speaker 3: I mean obviously, yes, it is a full time job. It's a full time job.

00:40:11
Speaker 1: And I was just wondering because I know you and I just have both talked about how authenticity is important to us, and yet I also understand that the reading of the comments is not good for our mental health.

00:40:24
Speaker 3: And yet it's impossible to.

00:40:25
Speaker 1: Get away from the idea that social media is now a part of our jobs.

00:40:29
Speaker 2: It's just isn't that crazy?

00:40:30
Speaker 3: It's crazy, and there's no avoiding.

00:40:32
Speaker 2: It's hard for the older generation who's commenting nasty as well, to understand and wrap their head around it. Yeah, exactly. You find a job of like this is man job? Thanks?

00:40:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. I'm doing it. I promise I'm doing it.

00:40:43
Speaker 2: I know, I know it doesn't look like I'm really getting ready, but I am. Okay, so shut up, but just listen to what I'm saying.

00:40:49
Speaker 3: I want to know.

00:40:50
Speaker 1: Going back to Dancing with the Stars, I want to know what were your thoughts on Wicked Night.

00:40:55
Speaker 2: I loved it? Yeah, I love John. I thought John was a great addition.

00:40:58
Speaker 3: Actually did too.

00:41:00
Speaker 2: I just what do you love?

00:41:02
Speaker 4: What?

00:41:02
Speaker 2: Sorry? I hate to answer a question with a question that I'm just curious. Do you have you found that? What's helpful for you guys? As contestants standing there? What would you like to hear from the judges.

00:41:12
Speaker 1: I love to hear personally mm hm. Any sort of feedback that is not going to be something that's only attributable to that dance.

00:41:23
Speaker 3: I'm never going to do that dance again.

00:41:25
Speaker 1: I never know. I'm never going to do jive again ever, for as long as I live, God willing.

00:41:31
Speaker 3: And so if there's just like a.

00:41:33
Speaker 1: Note about something that's very jive specific, just skip that one.

00:41:37
Speaker 3: Because that's in my rear view mirror. I can't correct it.

00:41:39
Speaker 1: But like Bruno during my jive did say that the retraction of my kicks and flicks are going to come into play in other dances, and sure enough it came into play in the Argentine tango.

00:41:50
Speaker 2: Oh Argentango.

00:41:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so it was like it was something I thought of when I was thinking about my my foot retraction during some of those moves. When Kim gave me the note of out, you know, practicing by putting a pen in between my fingers to help me really and I did, it was like both passion and I were like that's a great idea, and so like that's that's really good. When I was really I still struggle with my shoulders and some Kim gave someone else. Imagine you were carrying bags of cement. That's what you should see. You want to feel like your hell kinds of very direct that only, in my opinion, someone who's been a pro, who's done it themselves can give.

00:42:29
Speaker 3: You have taught you know you know what.

00:42:32
Speaker 1: And you don't necessarily know what's going to work for every person, but you have enough experience giving advice to different types of celebrities. You have a wealth of knowledge at your fingertips for what might be useful. That's why one of the reasons I think you're going to be such a fantastic addition to the judges.

00:42:49
Speaker 2: Share thank you. You know, as I started the show very young, so I didn't have a lot of teaching experience, and it was interesting I involved when you asked if I got help my my dance coach actually held my hand through this process for the first few years of learning just the language of trying to teach a pedestrian what ballroom technique is without using the word because words are just words, like you can call it whatever the hell you want, just do it, execute it right, like we're just trying to get the execution going. Another tip for you instead of thinking of shoulders down, think of your spine that goes it doesn't stop here, right, stops here?

00:43:31
Speaker 3: Okay.

00:43:31
Speaker 2: And you know those balconies, those balconies when your nipples you want to think towards the balcony this way, still thinking of heavy luggage or cement, right okay. And then also if it's not nipples but everything like notice I'm not just doing that. I'm going I'm expanding my my rib cage is out. You want to not look up to the balconies. Don't do that right right? Then then this happens. Then this happens with you. You don't want this happened, right, You don't want to work in nine starts here?

00:44:09
Speaker 1: Oh I love that okay, top of the head spine.

00:44:14
Speaker 2: And you can hold it a little mini apple is what Len Goodman said. He would say, like you see, get that little little mini apple, grab it from the top.

00:44:23
Speaker 3: That's here, right, yeah, so it's here.

00:44:25
Speaker 2: You just want to, like, you know, start holding your drinks like this, like you know.

00:44:29
Speaker 3: The good news is I do. That has not been my problem.

00:44:32
Speaker 2: Remembering you looked great last night, that was a thank beautiful. But that's a different that's different.

00:44:37
Speaker 3: It's totally different.

00:44:37
Speaker 1: No, what we did a foxtrot, so I have I had when we did our my second week with the fox Trot, I I was that that hand there. Thankfully, it feels very natural. I'm very I'm very girly with my pinkies.

00:44:50
Speaker 2: I'm like constantly.

00:44:52
Speaker 3: Still, that is so funny.

00:44:54
Speaker 1: Well, you have given me so many I mean my final question was if you had one piece of advice, but I can't even You've given me so many incredible.

00:45:02
Speaker 2: That's not my advice, my advice. I want you to mess up more. I want to see raw, I really do. I want to I because I can forgive that there's no perfection. There's no such thing as what is perfect. There was no such thing, no such thing. Unfortunately I thought there was, but there isn't. And you were like this was like you were in it. You were laser focused. And I don't know what your music? What's your music again? For me, Walt, is it romantic or not romantic?

00:45:30
Speaker 3: I with a smile, Lady Lady Gagon Bruno mars.

00:45:33
Speaker 2: Okay, So I mean, are you does it make you feel like because like I want you to embody this music. You need to know this music inside and out, like you could literally start it from the random spot and you know exactly what you're doing one and two, you just like you need to feel it because I need to see that. I need to see your emotion through motion.

00:45:53
Speaker 1: So so good, and you're right, because like certain dances I've had every week, there's something a little different helps me with that particular dance. Some weeks it is all about knowing the counts, knowing the count forward and backward, and Pasha being able to say to me, we're going to take it from this, We're going to take it from the seven I've learned in I learned in week during our tango week. So the first week, one of the first things he said to me was, you're going to start counting this and I was like me, and he was like, I've been counting, start paying it if you're not, if you haven't been, start paying attention. And then I was like, can we do it together? And then we would count the dance together, and by the time the day was over, I was dancing the dance and counting it solo from beginning to end, and so I was able to do that then with my chatcha and last night I was the most present I've ever felt in my body. But I was dancing on the show No Counts.

00:46:49
Speaker 2: So this is what I was going to say. But ballroom is between a man and a woman. Yeah in your case, right, yeah, a partnership where the man in your in your case and in anyone's case this season, a man leads the woman follows. Or it should look like this, right, huh you the counts shouldn't. I don't think should be a priority. I just don't. I just don't. Now, do you need to know your Yes, you must know your forwards and backwards. It's vital. But I think that because you have such a short amount of time, you need to embody. You need to like this music. Whether you love it or hate it is irrelevant. Like totally, I need to I need to feel you, girl.

00:47:29
Speaker 3: I love it.

00:47:30
Speaker 2: I love it, and don't fake it. Don't find something real in your life that you can incorporate, right, like find that emotion.

00:47:38
Speaker 1: Okay, I I lied. I have one more question for you, and maybe it's a two Maybe it's a two parter.

00:47:42
Speaker 2: That's fine.

00:47:43
Speaker 1: We mentioned Mark Ballas, who's back on the dance floor this year. He's a master of the trade as are you. Is there ever a possibility Cheryl Burr would come back to the dance floor as a pro I mean never say never, okay, never said that.

00:48:03
Speaker 2: As my body saying yes, please, let's do this now. No, okay, I mean I still have my body. Woman like, she comes here and I don't live in La anymore, so I live about a couple hours away and she drives here. I mean, mind you, I pay her, but I'm sure she's the only reason why I don't have hip replacements because she gets into my scar tissue. It's pretty bad. It's from all the you know, dancing, not just on the show, but all the years, my whole life.

00:48:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, the second part of that question, if there was ever another All Star season, who do you think you'd choose?

00:48:38
Speaker 2: Jack Osborne or Rob Kardashiya.

00:48:40
Speaker 3: Really yeah, oh I love it. I love it so much.

00:48:43
Speaker 2: I just love them as human beings.

00:48:45
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing you can't.

00:48:47
Speaker 2: Actually, maybe Rob, Rob needs to get out of that wherever he is. Where are you, Kardashia, Let's.

00:48:53
Speaker 3: Go come on out, Rob.

00:48:55
Speaker 2: He was so happy when he did the show, so and I was so happy for him.

00:48:58
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's such a beautiful thing you guys are able to do for people.

00:49:01
Speaker 3: Truly the pros.

00:49:03
Speaker 1: I tell every one of them, you guys are really the stars. I mean that is That's the thing people don't know, Like the amount of patience and time and effort and just the amount of giving you have to do for the entire length of time that you're on the show. It is just you're putting yourself on the back burner. You're making sure you're not the one who seems like the star of the dance. You have to figure out their limitations, you have to figure out what they're good at.

00:49:31
Speaker 3: You have to highlight that. You have to choreograph in the morning. You're up until late, like you're a therapist.

00:49:36
Speaker 1: Sometimes you're you know, a physical therapist, to be like, what's bothering you?

00:49:40
Speaker 3: Here? Here's my person?

00:49:41
Speaker 2: Have you done this?

00:49:42
Speaker 1: Like the things you guys have to do and with a smile and while being microphoned and on camera.

00:49:48
Speaker 3: I don't know how. I really don't know how you guys do it.

00:49:51
Speaker 2: So sweet, But it's so sweet of you. Thank you for noticing that, because a lot of people don't even notice it.

00:49:56
Speaker 1: No, it is you are all true remarkable people, and the percentage of people who are even remotely capable of it is very tiny, and so you were a master at it.

00:50:09
Speaker 3: And thank you for your service and for all of your years.

00:50:12
Speaker 1: And I cannot wait to see you in a judge's chair next week and to hear all of your thoughts.

00:50:20
Speaker 3: I know you're going to kill it. I'm so excited for you.

00:50:24
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm just nervous. I don't know if I can just say it in ten seconds, but hey, we're going to try to talk sound by its starting now.

00:50:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what. I know you're capable of it.

00:50:32
Speaker 1: You just did a fantastic interview with me, and you are great on your own podcasts, you're great on social media, you're you're wonderful. So we are lucky to have you next week. I'm looking forward to it.

00:50:43
Speaker 2: Thank you, and girl, you got this one step, just one little step, one.

00:50:48
Speaker 3: Little step at a time.

00:50:49
Speaker 1: And next week, I just I'm gonna make sure you feel it. That's my goal. I want you to feel it.

00:50:53
Speaker 2: I feel it from I'm good.

00:50:55
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm going to make you feel it. I promise, I promise. I'm going to think about it all week thank you so.

00:51:00
Speaker 4: Much, Cheryl hell Pasha, I say hello, I most certainly will okay, thank you byek you. Danielle with the Stars Produced and hosted by Danielle Fischel. Executive producers Jensen Carp and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, Producer, editor and engineer Tara Sudbosch.

00:51:19
Speaker 3: Theme song by Justin Siegel.

00:51:21
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at Danielle with Stars and vote for me