#305 – Scott Stapp On The Untold Story of Creed + The Ups and Downs of Fame + Finding Peace in Family

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Speaker 1: A welcomed episode three oh five, we finally after years of waiting all the build up, we talked to Scott's Stab of Creed Arms wide open man. We did an hour. I had never met Scott's Stabb before, but it was a huge Creed fan back in the day, and so we've been talking about getting up forever. Huh. He came in. He could not have been nicer. I think one of the few times I've been like starstruck kind of. Yeah, he walks in and he sits down and I'm just like day like, I'm sitting six ft away from Scott's death. Yeah, So it's an hour long. We didn't know. Sometimes people come in and it doesn't flow in now we had hoped or I'm having a bad day or they're having a bad day and it goes twenty thirty minutes. But with Scott, he was so open and there's an hour long, and he didn't do many interviews. So pretty proud of this that I got to talk with him for an hour. So, I mean, he talks about it all, that they're unheard of, rise to fame, how they got a record deal, which was weird, meaning everybody wanted them that nobody wanted them. How he dealt with being called the most hated band in America, you know, finding peace in his family. All that's coming up. Just I love this episode. I hope you guys love it too. Before we get into the interview. The New Music top five for the week, The Kid Leroy and Justin Bieber have a new song called stay Here. It is nobody else as good as when I'm Away from You on Missie and the Other Reason I Believe It. Number four. Zach Brown Band released two new songs. One it's called Out in the Middle and this one is called old Love Song, Damn Keep Falling, Say Nothing at All Girl, put your records on, let me on song something that classic. Zact Brown Band there At number three, Post Malone has a new song I'll called Motley Crue. We're gonna play Serious Can with Dang Mary Can with gang Me. What's You're gonna do? I'm gonna put up with the Crow When I'm out the Jewels, I'd like to hang out the role. Number two. Lauren Jenkins has an EP out called Miles on Me Part One. Here is a new song called She's a Star. Jesus, Jesus, Oh Kiss he tech you she has and my number one new release of the week is Kaylee Shore. She has a new song out called love Child. She also has a podcast you can check out called uh So too Much, too Much, too much to say With Kaylee Shore, He's gonna say so much to say that today, Matthews band song, do you know that? So much to say so much? What? I don't know that song? So much to say so much to say a minute Internet at nothing nothing day. Uh. In quick music News, Mark Chestnut cancels concerts to have back surgery. So if you're gonna go watch Mark Chestnut and a little nineties country tour, Budoo Boop will be having it. Hopefully he gets better soon. HBO Max drops a trailer for the Woodstock documentary. HBO Max is doing the new documentary premiering on July, Woodstock, Love and Rage about how they didn't go that well. Yeah, it looks crazy, looks if I were comparing it. The analogy is sort of fire Firefest based in a different way. Total destruction, Yes, but it just didn't go as planned. Yeah, I guess that would be uh and um. Scott Steps got a little part in that he does with Creed in the band, Um Corn, Limbiscuit, Chili Pepper's Rage, Kid Rock, Metallic, A Day of Atlantis, Insane clown posse. Uh. Those were all people that were there and it turned into an absolute yeah, like people were seemed more upset than they should be. They got mad for no reason. Let's see. Billie Eilish's brother Phineas was the number one songwriter on Spotify and x x X tonight on they said that. Yeah, that's right, that's right. Listen to the podcast about him on the Disgrace Land by the way, which is a good podcast here when he came in here. But that's interesting cause he's not alive anymore. That wasn't a good dude, No, not at all. Bruno mars Ariana Grande are banned in Indonesia. I think that's it. Huh. Yeah, I'd banned a few songs from are air waves. Could what would be? Yeah? Not for not for hearing today, there's some real turns on the radio right now that I'll be honest with you. Okay, that's what's up. We'll do this and then we will come back with an hour with Scott's staff of Creed. Let's play a few create clips by the way, all right, before we get into it here, what do you have? You have? Um my own prison? Here you go Sunday morning. Come on, do you have? What's this laughe for? Come on? Do you have with arms wide open? Yeah? Do you have? Can you take me higher? God? Do you have one? Feel? What you having? Away? There? You got for my friends? Enough thinking? Okay, what else? M my sacrifice? Me um free? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Well down memory lane there you go. Scott staff of Creed. That's coming up, all right, with Scott's staff of Creed. And most of the time when friends come over, their friends and their buddies and I'm like, hey, let's do this because they're promoting something or or it's it's a fun conversation. But rarely do I get to have someone in that I have been a genuine fan of for twenty years. And so like, I'm grateful that you took the time to come over here and hang out and let me talk with you, because again, I'm a fan and it's rare for me to get to talk to someone in that capacity. Man, Thank you, that means a lot, bro, thank you, And it's awesome to be here. And uh, you know, people have been trying to get us together for a while. It's mostly been me going, come on, I've been getting I've been getting text messages and whatnot, and so it's awesome. Man, we're neighbors. Bro, you drove up and I didn't you lived in Nashville for over five years at this point. Yeah, coming up on six. Yeah, I was talking to Brad from three doors down and I said, hey, I saw you on Instagram with Scott stat and I know Brad. Brad's come out and he's done our radio show. We've played a couple of things together, played charity events on my band, and I was like, what did you tell Scott Stamp I'm a good guy, Like I was like, if you go to dinner with him, just put in the word that I just want to say hello. But I saw you guys. Maybe it's like a baseball game or something. It was my son's baseball uh team, And he came out. And I've known Brad since like, uh, and you know, we weren't you know, we didn't stay in touch the entire time, but we recently reconnected and UH love him. And he texts me like from you know, I think here from wherever you guys were. He's like, dude, I'm right here with with Bobby, you know. And he sent me a message and and uh and I was like, man, all right, I've got to do something with Bobby. Hopefully good stuff. Hopefully good every I've heard nothing but amazing things about you, bro, and and and everyone who's who shot me a message just told me you know that you were you were a fan of the music, and and uh and it was a positive thing. And and I haven't been trying to avoid you, I promised. Well, it's I was such a fan. And I want to tell you my one Scott step Creed story. All right, it's a good story, I think, except I'm embarrassed. I was like nineteen, it was like two or nine, maybe ninety nine or two thousand, and you're just few years older than I am, so you must have been like twenty five or something like that. You guys had sold out the arena and Little Rock, Arkansas, and that's where I'm from, Central Arkansas, and Creed was coming through as freaking pumped, and I was working at a radio station, and I was it was that part of my career where I was like, man, if I can get backstage. All I want to do is say hi to Scott Stab. That was my goal. And so I'm back in the backstage area. And what people don't realize, and you know, two, backstage really not that glamorous. There's a place for some pictures, but it's not like the band hangs out backstage. Mostly it's in the bus most And so were you a ping pong player? We played ping ping pong backstage tournaments with you point So I'm back there and I'm just just like, man, I just want any any time to see Scott Stab. And so you come walking in. You were just chill. You just were walked in the room, and I was like, oh my god, you w does anyone play ping pong? And I didn't, but I was like, this is my shot. I was like, I played pain and I didn't play ping pong, And I was like, I played ping pong and we got up and we played and you were up eight zero, and you go, does anybody else play ping pong? That was it? And I was like it was equally embarrassing and also at the same time because you beat me eight zero and somebody else stepped up from the crew. But I remember you were just whooping to me and I could see the look on your face, like this guy, he lied he does not play ping pong. We had some intense ping pong tournaments back in the day between the bandmates and with you know, the traveling show that we were so we we were we were into it, man, and uh so, hope it wasn't too competitive with you. It was wonderful because you it's the greatest story. Had been eight to three, that's not a good story, but eight to zero where you whoop me and then we're like, okay, I need a real player, Like that's the best story. Like I got. I recently got to play UM golf with Jordan's speech, who is one of the best golfers in the world right now, and he beat me so bad and took all my money. I was like, this is the greatest outcome for me because you are Jordan's speech to me, You're like the greatest and you want me real good Oh man, what a story. Well so good times. I was kind of looking back at some of the older UM in our younger days whenever you guys got together and there's a big Florida State presence in the band because that's where you you guys met to begin with. Right. It's so you go to Florida State, and what was your idea when you go to college? Like, what did you want to be when you have to Florida State Because a lot of people don't go to Florida State to go I want to be in a band and be a big star. Right. Well, I mean, I'll be honest with you. The only reason that I left Orlando to go to Tallahassee, uh and to end up going to school at Florida State, it was because I was reading a biography about The Doors and read that Jim Morrison, whom I was a huge fan of and a huge fan of The Doors, I went to Florida State and in my naive, uh nineteen eighteen or nineteen year old mind at the time, I thought, well, hey, I mean that that's just the way that that you meet musicians and start a band and yeah, and so I went there with the specific goal of meeting musicians to start a band. Uh. And that was that was the goal. Did you have a major? Well? I did, um it was communications and minor in English and uh. And like I think I had like three or four miners because I kept changing my major, Like I think it started out as like philosophy and and uh, you know, and and you know, so I got a lot of miners and and and you know. My backup plan, which I didn't really focus on too much, was I was going to go to law school. Uh and uh and do that? Were you a smart kid? I did okay in school? Yeah? I did. I don't know if I was smart, but I I studied and and and did well. Take me to like sixth grade, Scott, Like when you're in sixth grade and they're like, all right, what do you want to be when you grow up? Because you kind of started around six seventh grade to figure out what your bones are about? Like what did you want to do at twelve thirteen years old? I wanted to be a major league baseball player. Did you have the genetic build, the work ethic? Did you have that kind of at twelveth thir team were already advanced at baseball? Yeah? Yeah, and uh and I practiced every day um and uh and did well. And I was a jock man, to believe it or not. I I sang, I performed at school, at my church. Um, and you know, even created wrote lyrics and poetry and whatnot. But then my focus, though was was baseball and basketball and uh and I put hours and hours and hours into both of those sports. When did that dream pivot into music? Well, Um, my senior year, I had got some scholarship offers, um and did some some school visits, and believe it or not, Vanderbilt was one of the schools that so you had to vision one school saying hey should come play ball here and recruited me yet and um, I remember me and my father came up and met with a coach here, Uh, did a tour of the school. Uh. And so you know, I think it was my deak to me to end up in Nashville because I I think, and and also to be in music, because I think I think my my philosophically and spiritually, I think my my life path was was to go to Nashville then Uh, and I think I believe it or not, that everything still would have happened, maybe in a different way. Uh, but some thing's happened. And and I ended up uh not coming to Vandy and going to a school in Cleveland, Tennessee called Lee College. Uh. And they were going to start a baseball team. Uh, they had a basketball team, so you were still going to play. Yeah, I was gonna was gonna walk on their basketball team and then play on their baseball team. Um. And then that, uh, that didn't work out. I I tried some things at a Christian college that you're not supposed to do, and so they asked me to take a break. That's a nice way of saying getting kicked out. We had a Christmans school off the street from where I went to school, and if you were like, if you had a picture of you with a beer, they would suspend you. With a similar type environment there, it was a very similar environment. And and and I was a very very naive and young and and just being a being an eighteen year old and being an eighteen year old in college and in any way, so uh, you know, ended up back in Orlando, and uh, you know, my my baseball dreams were gone. But I still had this passion for music that was always there. It was it was like both of them were in me. I had just focused on on sports and in school and and the singing was just something to do for for fun. Uh. And so I really began to it just began to kind of swell up in me, um and and and become something that, hey, you know, I want to do this. And I remember going to a couple of concerts and and seeing the bands and and going I and I just believed in my head I can do that. Were you in a high school band of any sort? No, so you just knew you wanted to do it. You had just focused all on your athletic career though at that time. Yeah, so you're back in Orlando. Okay, when did when do you go Tallahassee? I read a book. I was working at a restaurant. I was I was. I was a cook, short order cook. Uh, going to community college. Um, and something always in me said I need to stay in school, you know. So I didn't give up school yet, so I was uh doing that and and um and and then read I read a book after after I was introduced to The Doors by the movie, and uh just became infatuated with that band and their whole persona and how Jim Morrison approached lyric writing and and and and just fell in love with that whole uh concept and wanted that. You know. You Two was another band that I in younger in in life, Uh fell in love with and just really just felt inspired by and loved how the songs made me feel, how how they were written lyrically, the Joshua Tree album in particular. Um. And so with those two influences, um, you know, and once I decided that, hey, this is what I want to do. When I read that, you know, Morrison went to Florida State and was in Tallahassee, I was naive, and I thought, hey, there must be a lot of musicians there, um and and that's where I need to be, uh to start a band and and and chase my rock and roll dreams. I was watching a clip of Jim Morrison a couple of weeks ago, and he was this is you know, late mid to late seventies when computers and music that wasn't a thing. They didn't mix at all. He was doing an interview on one of those talk shows and he was like, you know, I can see it now. He goes, you got somethink I'm crazy, but you gotta be making music with computers and it's gonna be I mean, he was so out and he was out in front of everything, like not by steps, but by miles. And he's like, you don't see it now, he goes, We're nowhere close to it. But I can see in generations a couple of a few computers literally will be making the music that we're doing right here with our hands. And they thought he was absolutely bonkers, and he was, but that made him also like so smart, so different, right, I mean he was a visionary um and thought outside the box and and uh and and and that definitely shined through, uh in their music and in his gift and and unfortunately, uh, you know, they didn't get to continue. But U he definitely inspired me and and Bono inspired me to h to chase these dreams. You get to Florida State, Yeah, you want to do music, but how the heck do you start, you quote, doing music? When do you meet Mark? Literally, I went around and handmade little flyers I want to you know, looking for a band, looking for a guitar player, called this number, you know, and was putting them up on campus. UM. And then a friend of mine who I went to high school with, she went to school at Florida State, UH, and I was connecting with a couple of people that I knew um in in high school, and she said, you know, Mark's here, Mark Tremonti's here and he plays guitar. Uh, And I said, you know what, I remember that. I remember going to like one of the only two parties that I snuck out of my house and went to because I wasn't allowed to do that. I remember coming out of the kitchen and walking by a sliding glass door to outside and seeing some dude sitting outside alone playing acoustic guitar. Uh. And I remember opening the opening the door and looking outside and going, hey, you're Mark. You're Mark Ronni right, and he goes yeah, And I go you play guitar and he was yeah, and I got I sing and he goes cool man. And that was it because he was a junior and I was a senior, and that was that was the only because we weren't like buddies in high school, but we knew of each other and that was our only interaction in high school was that moment. And then you know, fast forward, uh years later he had gone to Clemson University and then transferred, uh you know over to Florida State. Uh. And then we get introduced again, uh through a mutual friend uh. And I think because we went to the same high school and had some mutual friends that we felt comfortable around each other. And I was so excited man to to find someone to jam with that he's I remember sitting down with him and and he's just shredding all these metal licks and and playing all the stuff that I really didn't know a lot about at the time, but I didn't care. I was like, it's awesome, it's awesome, let's write songs. And we sat down and shared all these ideas, and I think we probably came up with like twenty ideas in the first like three hours we had set down with each other. Uh and uh. And then it just started from there and and we decided, Hey, let's let's let's do this. Let's start a band. So what does that mean? Because you're gonna start a band, you do you go out and do you play for anybody? Just YouTube? Like, do you go to a coffee shop? Do you well? What? We we kept getting together and just jamming. Uh did he think you were good? I don't know, you know, I I hope so, um you know, Uh, you know, I I think we had a mutual admiration for each other. And I know he saw because he commented before you know, he saw my passion um. You know, he saw how committed I was, how much I lyrics I was writing and poetry that I was writing, and how passionate I was about getting together to rehearse and write and and so yeah, you know, I definitely think so I think we inspired each other. I saw his passion um and his his playing moved me uh and and brought it was like it was amuse, it brought things out of me. And I think that energy began to share with you know, was shared with each other. I would inspire him and and it just became this this mutual admiration for each other eventually, um. And then you know, we had to find a bass player and a drummer um. And so we eventually did. We found Brian Uh and Scott Phillips. Brian was actually playing in a cover band, pretty successful college cover band that was like playing gigs every weekend, making making money, you know, and uh, you know, we we kind of stole him from that gig, and that was a big thing. We were like trying to recruit him and and he was like, man, you know, I got this good thing going and I'm making money, you know, and you guys aren't even playing out like you're just you know, jam In and Scott singing through Marks amp, same amp that he's playing playing guitar from. And finally we got him. We had this one bass player. This is hilarious. Uh, I can't remember his name. My mind wants to tell me. His name was Kern's Okay. Uh so anyone out there listening, um, if you remember, uh, you know, shoot me a text or call in or whatever. But he didn't play. He didn't he actually did. He just stood there and pretended to play. We couldn't tell because he didn't have he didn't have an amp, or he had an amp, but it was it's just the way we were rehearsing. It was like maybe he did play a note here or there, uh, during rehearsals. But we eventually realized when we would have our friends come over and you know, and we were playing original songs that coming up with ideas that me and Mark were writing, he wasn't even playing bass. He was just standing there trying to look cool. Uh. And so we eventually we it's a funny spinal tap kind of story, like you know, this this stand in bass player that just you know and he would rock and move and you know, look like he was playing, but like nothing. Uh. And maybe we realized that at our first gig, I think Mark came to be a mad gig though he actually got to a gig, got to a gig like he he fooled us just long enough to get to to like one gig, I believe, if my memory serves me. And then Mark came to me afterwards and he goes, dude, Karns didn't play the entire night, and I was like what and uh, you know, so we let him go and and uh, you know, eventually got Brian and and and Scott and and man, really we were just kind of a you know jam. Scott Phillips had this cool little rental house, uh that he rented while he was going to school and and working and and it had this outdoor concrete like garage but I don't I don't even almost like a basement, but it was like outdoors and separate from the house, just a solid concrete room. Uh. And we would go out there and and uh and just jam and write and rehearse and rehearse, but we never played out uh. And so finally we began to play out. Where did you get your first gig? I believe it was a place called Yanni's And what if I if I remember correct not it was either Yawny's or or or Oh man, no, yeah it wasn't you. I'm trying to remember. Did you have a name? Then we we went through a couple We went through a few names. I mean we we didn't really have a definitive name. I mean we we had some stupid ideas. Um I mean backbone, I mean, you know, how cool is that? Right? But would have been the hit, would have been like that normal? And then we had this crazy name that that you know, Mark had this idea and he goes, I've always had this idea for a band name. And he pulls out this newspaper article from his wallet and it said Naked Toddler and he had always and he thought Naked Toddler would be a killer band name. And and literally, man, he carried the article in his wallet and he pulls it out. So we're like, all right, let's be Naked Toddler. And so we went and played a gig and they had Naked Toddler on the on the billboard. Uh and uh, I didn't go over too. Well, a lot of people didn't show up. I think the name kind of I think I was gonna show up. I may have not kind of kind of scared them, but but you know, no one was really showing up to see us anyway. We were really just like playing at at bars, you know, playing covers, uh, throwing in you know, an original here. They're just trying to figure out our sound and our style. UM. And so eventually, uh, Brian Marshall, our bass player, Uh, he came and he said, you know, I used to be in a band called Maddox Creed and UH. When he said that, I instantly gravitated to the word creed. Uh, you know, being the lyricist and and you know, writing the songs that it just fit with how I was writing and the songs that that Mark and I were creating in the lyrics that I was coming up with. Uh, and I go, let's keep the Creed part. Man. I love that, And so we all agreed and Creed became the name. Uh. And then we continued to uh to play out. I think we played out at a place called Big Daddy's uh Yawny's. Uh. There was another UM club there that like all the the you know, regional traveling bands. Uh. You know, Butch Walker, who's a big producer now. Uh, he was in a band um and I can't remember their band name, but he eventually it was Marvelous Three, but he was in one prior to that, and we used to go see them all the time. And Butch was such an amazing performer. Uh so so charismatic and and so I remember watching him going, man, I want to bring that energy to what I do, you know. And I was inspired by by him. Uh. And then John Hopkins, who went on to be a founding member of oh what's the band name? Um, Big Country Act. Ah. I can't believe it just slipped my mind, right, But John Hopkins was playing with a friend and and they were acoustic um and uh he inspired me. Uh too. There was a lot of great musicians and artists uh that went on to have a pretty successful careers um in the entertainment business. You know. Butch Walker is a famous producer now and and and John Hopkins, Uh if you google him, Zack Brown band, that's right, co founder Zack Brown Band. Um. And he was a solo artist at the time. And uh so that was the scene. UM, and then Sister Hazel was coming through and UH and the owners of the bar. UH also met the owners of one of the bars that we played at. Managed was a co manager of Sister Hazel or knew their manager. There was some connection there, UH. And so he came to us. His name was Jeff Hansen, UH and he said, Hey, I want to manage you guys. Do you have a CD uh? And we're like no, and he goes, well, he hooked us up with this local UH engineer producer who was kind of a regional star, UH, you know, ten fifteen years earlier, named John Kerswig, And we put in a hundred dollars a week or or fifty dollars a week and started recording. Uh. And was that my own prison? The first was to my own prison? Yeah, And you guys did that. And again I'm just gonna be a fan for a second, and maybe a fan slightly wrong, but you guys did that on such a budget. We're like five six seven dollars for the whole record, right right. It ended up costing that much, and I believe we borrowed the difference in what we needed from Brian Marshall's dad. You you borrowed money, but we were putting in money ourselves. But I think I can't remember exactly, but we borrowed money to get it pressed, like to buy our first run of CDs, and also finished the project. And how old were you at this time? I want to say twenty two three, somewhere in the probably twenty three when we got that finished. So you finished it with it. Listen, it takes six grand to cut, now, right, if you're gonna do a record six You finished the whole thing for we'll say, roughly six thousand dollars. Whenever you gave it to him or gave it to people where they like, wow, this is amazing. We started getting that reaction in the local radio station. UH started playing my Own Prison on on the locals only show UH, and then another station in Thomasville, Georgia started playing another song off the record called Pity for a Dime that was their single, UH, and we started getting noticed from you know, the l A and New York record companies when UH My Own Prison went number one at the Tallahassee rock station and Pity for a Dime went number one at the thomas Phil, Georgia rock station. UM and then we got it. I think we got like ten thousand CDs printed. Were you still paying for that the ten thousand CDs or it's somebody Well, I think that was part of the sixth grand got it Okay? So when you paid for all of it, you you had ten thousand cis. Got it right, right? I think? I think the sixth Grand encompassed not only making the record, but also getting the first ten thousand pressing. I believe. How fast were they selling? Well, we went, we took them out to well, we invented a record company called Blue Collar Records, and uh, our managers and and some friends of ours would go to the record stores as blue Collar Records representatives, um and uh, you know, because we wanted to get him to sell our CDs. And so we put them in the stores and we sold all ten thousand CDs in the first four weeks. And that's when the label started coming to Tallahassee because that you know, it flagged on their on their sound scan, you know. And who is this band that sold you know, ten thousand albums uh last month? Uh? And so you know that's when it started. So I'm gonna take one step back because I am curious about that. You know, how you guys blew up, But I'm always curious and how it started and kind of the genesis of songwriting. If you had never written music and you've written I mean I listed all the just the massive songs of them, basically everything. How I have songwriter friends have been doing their whole life. I have written hit and they're really good. You hadn't done it at all, and then you started writing songs and you have so many, Like how easily or was it not easy for you to start writing songs that actually were good, catchy songs with hooks? You know? I think I think we wrote probably seven or eight songs that, you know, in trying to find our sound. And then we wrote a song called grip My Soul, which never made a record, should have, but it didn't make the record. We didn't record it, or maybe we did record it, but it didn't make the record. That might have been our eighth or ninth song. And I remember when we wrote that song, we all looked at each other, and Mark and I specifically, and we're like, Okay, we got it. We figured this is it. We figured it out. Um And from that moment on, uh, what you hear on My Prison was written we I mean literally only probably once we figured out what our sound was from Gripped my Soul to what was recorded on my own prison. Um, I mean we probably only wrote fourteen songs and and total since Mark and I were together, maybe twenty songs, which is a very low number. For those were the first twenty songs I had ever written in my life. And that's my point exactly. Like I have friends that have been doing it for twenty years. They wrote they write sixty songs for a record. Now. The only thing I can think of, man, is that that you know, the the artist that I list into, you know, being YouTube also you know growing up listening uh, you know, the only thing that was allowed in my home growing up was was Christian rock or Christian artists, um. And so you know, I would listen to a lot of Takes six and I think that's who taught me how to sing, because I would sing along with those records and sing every vocal part on that record. And then d C Talk, which is became which became which became Toby mac um that was allowed in my house. And and then you too because the same thing that people ended up doing with Creed that we're in Christian homes, saying wait wait there, Christian band, mom and dad, even though Creed wasn't an official Christian band, just like you too is not a Christian band, but Bono is a Christian um. And so I snuck Josh Retreat, got it into my house and was able to listen to that by telling my parents that they were a Christian band. But I think those those bands that I listened to growing up. Stryper was another one. Uh that was was a jam uh in my house. But I think all that was just imprinted in my brain. I think song structure and how to write songs based on those records was just imprinted in my brain. Mark the same way Mark was, He was much more. He was much different than me, and that Mark knew what he wanted to do when he was probably ten or eleven years old. Mark knew he wanted to be in a rock band, play guitar and write songs and be a singer and a guitar player. He knew, um at least that that's how I recall it. And so he he he, he knew all these bands that I had never heard of. He you know, he learned all. You know, he probably knew hundreds and hundreds of songs on guitar, you know, by learning him on tab and and just listening and playing them. So of course that taught him song structure and and taught him. So I think me just just hearing that in him, I think we just inherently new structure and how to put a song together, um and and and then it just came out once we got together. We didn't think too much about it. We never sat down and thought, um, let's write a radio song, or or we need to do this. We we were just like, hey, that's the verse, that's the chorus, that's this. We never we never put any pressure on ourselves and we just wrote what made us feel good because in the beginning we were just playing for us. You know what I mean, my own prison. I'm gonna play a few of these hooks here here is actually my own prison. That's whenever I hear a song from like when I mean like I feel like I felt, then music does that. Like when you hear a song that reminds you of a really big part of your life, for a second, you feel that part of your life again. And this record does that to me? Is the record in general? Torn? Here's a clip of Dorm. What's This Life for? Whis what? Which was a rock number one for you guys? Was this a big separator for you guys? Did this one turn you guys from a national known band to like a whoa, here they come? I think, you know, My Own Prison went all four of our first singles went number one at rock, and I think it was a build um and then you know, my Own Prison was our first video that was on MTV and v H one UM and then What's This Life For? I think was our second video that was on MTV n v H one, and it was more of a It had more of a appeal to a wider audience. What's this Life Ford? Did? I think that's when I felt other people were knowing about you get because the edge Dallas. I would have a friend record take a cassette tape because your kids now don't know you do record, play pause and you undo pause, you record what's on the radio. And I have a friend send it to me and he was like, you gotta hear Creed, What's this Life For? And I was like, I already been known about Creed but I felt like that song. Yeah, I definitely, I definitely think that that just you know, expanded it even further. And I think the video had had a lot to do do with that too, And I think it was it was really palatable, um, you know, to a wider audience. Um. And I think we began to see our audience by by the time What's this Life for? And then once one, the song one became a single and and had its time, our audience really expanded from and was a mix of men and women. And initially it was just you know dudes, um, based on our first two singles, you know, into heavy you know, heavy aggressive rock. But those two songs showed a different side of the band and began to really open up our audience. Uh. And then you know the next record, you know, with higher and did you fill the rocket ship for the first record you make it? You don't spend a lot of money on it, but you're hustling, right, you got fake representatives going to record stores. I mean, you aren't in the hustle, right. Do you feel the rocket ship or do you just realize, oh boy, we're on it now. We expected it. We we were so at least I did. I had this blind confidence and and I had these blinders on, and I just thought that it was going to happen. I just had such belief in the music that we were creating. And then once we made the CD, and then once the record label started coming down, I just thought that, Hey, here it is. We're gonna be playing arenas soon. That's what happens. That's what happens when you get a record deal and you get on the radio, you play arenas. That that's idea. I had no idea that that was only the beginning, and and the chances of you you know, even making it past your first single were slim to none. You know, I was so naive. Um. But I think that was a that was actually a benefit to me at the time because it took away any fear or doub out or or or anything that could stand in the way of of me, uh, you know, achieving uh and and giving what I needed to give from my standpoint to make it happen. And I think it was contagious, uh to the guys in the band, um, and and we all just had this belief, um in what we were doing, and and uh, we didn't we didn't think it would turn out any other way. With you guys having your music already made and knowing who you were as a band, did that make your first deal easier to actually know what you wanted to not get ripped off? Well, here here's another funny story or not funny story. But we almost didn't have a record deal. We had literally every major label interested, um, and then one by one they started bowing out because I don't know, Uh, they just they're interested, They're down, they're talking with our managers, their meetings, they're talking with our big New York lawyer that we had. Uh. They got everybody signed, uh, you know, and one by one they would bail. And then it came down to Atlantic Records. Uh, and the two Nicks that we were talking to, and we were in their offices, uh meetings, New York back and we were a percent sure that that, you know, it was going to be Atlantic Records, and uh, you know, negotiations were going on the whole nine yards. I think they ended up signing a band instead of us called Seven Mary three right and uh. And so we were like, oh my god, what are we gonna do? Everybody dropping? Do you do you know I have no idea and uh then this little company never signed a band before. Ah. A woman named Diana Meltzer and her husband Alan Meltzer. They had just started a label called wind Up Records, and somehow, I think through our lawyer are Blue Collar Records c D got in Diana Meltzer's hands and she heard it and she's was a convinced that this She had to sign this band. She had to sign this band. Uh. So she told her husband Alan, I'm going to tell haassee and I'm signing this band. Whether you come with me or not. He came. He ended up listening to the c D. He loved it. They came. Um, you know it was so funny. I remember looking in the crowd and you know, there wasn't that many people there at that particular time. Um, and they looked like they were in the mafia. You know. There was there was this little guy in an all black suit, you know, New York looking guy, and and his wife and all black and and and we were like, whoa, who are these two mafia people in the crowd And they were standing in the center and they were just rocking out, you know. And uh, and then we our managers came and said, Uh, there's some record company folks that want to meet with you guys afterwards. So we went to this bar next door and it had like a rooftop bar, and we went up there and we talked and and they said we want to sign you. And this is right after we had, you know, been basically passed on by everybody else, and we had no other option. Uh. And in looking back, it was the greatest thing that could ever happen to us because this man was a very successful businessman and he was starting a new business and we got all the attention from his company, and he did not want to fail. And he was a gambler. We didn't learn that until later on in life that he was a gambler. Uh. But he put all his resources uh into into the band. Uh and uh but again we had no we had no other options, so we we took it and uh, you know, again naive, but he knew what he was doing. Uh. And so we signed with little little wind Up Records, the engine that could uh and uh the rest is history. Did you guys make any money off the first record after signing with them? Because it did so well? Uh? Yeah, money started coming in yeah, I mean we we we didn't have a very good deal. It's a bad deal. What about your publishing from writing the song? Did you get paid from that differently? Uh? We we got paid. No, we we got publishing, we got recording, we got royalties. Um, we just got a tiny advance and and just probably you know, your basic crappy record deal that that was probably pretty standard in in n um you know, I mean our publishing deal. We still owned you know, the vast majority of our publishing of course, um. And and then had the typical probably standard record deal. Um. But the record you know went six times platinum, h I believe. And so we definitely um, you know recouped because they used our demo. Man, they didn't just use the record spent six right, and so we had nothing to recoup except you know, the a couple of music videos, uh and maybe some tour support early on. And so yeah, you know, our lives changed really quick. You know what is that like you talk about a rocket ship? When your lives changed so quickly, do you go crazy or are you scared? It was? It was happening uh, so fast, and it was so awesome and it was such a high and so exciting. Uh, and our dreams were coming true. We were just enjoying every minute of it. Man, Um, without the thought of of it could ever end. You know, we were just caught up in it. Did you guys get a plane eventually? Yeah? After after Human Clay we had a plane. We had a G five. Um you know what I mean? Yeah, man, I mean it. But Human Clay was so big, like it was next level. When when Higher comes out, I mean just that drum part and you singing like that to me personifies that whole like to your two thousand like time period in music, I mean Higher, what's and here's the we'll play the club of Higher because you've a eleven under a rock or your twelve? Was this another level for you guys with a song? Ye, this took us. This took us to another level. Um, it took us higher pun intended. Uh and uh. And then you know there was another song on this record. What if that was tied in with the Scream three movie? Uh? And so we did a video, uh with all the screen three you know, actors and and and and that also you know, to have that title track for a soundtrack and and the whole movie machine behind that gave us exposure to you know, another great greater portion of the world, and and uh and then higher and then you know, and then the grand slam that just took it, you know, to the stratosphere. Um was armed wide open, which which came later. I remember vividly that heartbeat and I don't know if it was a radio version or the album version, but it would be like, yeah, yeah, then well I just heard that. The heartbeat still sits with me, like that song comes out, because that was a number one pop song too, Like that's you beating everybody right again. It had to be just another notch of what is happening with our life right now. It was we were in it and enjoying, enjoying it and just living it. And and like I, like I said earlier, we or at least I let me just speak for me. I thought that's what was supposed to happen to a band when they got a record deal and got on the radio. I didn't realize until years later that that's not what happens to every band that gets a record deal and gets on the radio. But in that moment I did so I thought everything that was happening was just what was supposed to happen, you know what I mean? Um, what would you go back and tell that kid? Though? Now? Oh man, I could tell that kid a lot, um man, appreciate ah the people around you. Let him know even though you may appreciate them, let them know on a regular basis. Uh. You know, I was so caught up in and and you know, I had a lot of anxiety. Uh. That's one issue that I dealt with, you know. And so every day that we had a big show in front of an arena crowd or wherever, you know, I was nervous all day long. And so I would I would kind of isolate myself because I was just nervous and didn't want to mess up and whatnot. Uh. And so I would tell that guy, hey, chill man, and and and just appreciate the people around you more and let them know, you know. And I did periodically, but I would do more. Um also also spend more time h nurturing all the relationships that you make uh in this business. Um. You know, I was so caught up in what I had to do and in the in creed and in writing the songs. Uh. And you know that I think the peripheral things I didn't pay enough attention to that, you know, as a more mature human being now I realized are so important. I mean, it takes a team. You know. It wasn't just the band that was doing everything. Uh, it's it's the team. Um. And so you know, I think I would definitely and and also I would have would I would have told myself, um, you know, two look at it. This is a job too, you know what I mean. And and it's not just one big party, it's you know, uh. And so definitely have a lot of things to say to my younger self about relationships, about taking care of my myself mentally and physically. Um. And and just appreciating every moment and the people around me, like I said, um, and and preserving and nurturing um, those those relationships, despite what I was going through at the time. Would you get nervous when a record would come out because you know my own prison, Probably not because you hustled. But then after it's a success and human Clay is about to come out or whether it's about to come out, are you like, well, we gotta beat the last one, or you just go and let's just go fire them off. We were in such a rapid motion from making a record, promoting singles tour right back in the studio. We we wrote Human Clay on tour because we only had like ten or eleven song us to play and and so we were like, we gotta write some more songs. So we were playing um, you know, say I and Faceless Man and and some other songs off of Human Play eventually Arms Wide Open, Um and probably even higher uh live prior to recording them on the album UM. And so you know, we kind of would see how the fans would react. You know, they were getting positive reactions, and so we just we weren't thinking about failure. We we we never we never thought about that. Uh, looking back, We just were so focused on what we were doing in that moment and that the doubt didn't come in. We didn't we didn't set any expectations on ourselves. With Arms Wide Open written about your son, Yes, it was about it was It was inspired when I found out I was going to be a father for the first time. Is he an adult now? Yes? Why wild? That's what I'm like? How old am I? As one of those moments where you're like, well, yeah, well it's it's funny that that you know, my other three children, Um, they all know the song, and it's it's kind of you know, it's a family song. Now, it's for all of it's for all of it's for all of you, you know what I mean. It's just inspired by your big brother, but it's for you too, you know. When you when you play dates now, when you're doing solo dates, which by the way, August five and St. Charles, Illinois, August six, in Mankato, Minnesota, August fourteenth, and Carlton, Minnesota, do you do all the Creed songs? I? I do a lot of them. Yeah, I do. I I pretty much do like a solo song and Creed song, a solo song and Creed song. Uh so because you know, the fans that are there are started out with me uh liking Creed uh and you know, I want to give them. I'm I'm there to entertain and give the fans what they want. Uh And and I still enjoy playing those songs. I love them, uh and so it feels good to play them, and it's great to be able to mix that up with my solo material and and uh, you know, the fans have have responded well to that your latest project, The Space between the Shadows. Whenever you are making a solo record, Like, what are you seeing differently than when you would make a collaborative record with the band, Like how are you approaching that create? And how did you Because that's got to be a big creative change when you first started doing your solo project, Like what was different in your mind and in your creative process? Well, I mean the creative process with Creed was primarily Mark and I would go away alone um and and write the songs and then come back and jam them with the band, um and. So I just that's the only way that I knew how to write, you know. It was that kind of one on one relationship. Uh And, So I just took that into my solo and and would find guys that that I connected with, uh and and right that way, So I just recreated the same, you know, the same writing scenario. You know, now as I've gotten older, I love to collaborate with various people. Sometimes it will be three guys in a room jam, and sometimes it will be four, uh and and that's that's fun, you know. And and moving to Nashville, and and and writing here has really opened up. Uh, you know, my my outlook and thoughts on on songwriting and how to write songs and and love having as many I mean, if there's six guys in a room, man, and we're and we're all just like, hey, man, let's write a song, would do it? You know? And that's why I love about Nashville. Uh and uh and and so you know it's changed in that regard. Uh And I think it's it's changed in a good way. Are now yeah, I'm writing now. I'm actually leaving here to go to a session to write for my next record. Are recording now? Um? Nope, just writing. I mean I may record a demo if we finished something and you know, just to get the idea down. And what's funny is on my last solo record, UM, a lot of those demo vocals that I that I recorded in that moment at that time, same day, you know, within the two hours of writing the song ended up being the final vocals. Um. And I'm finding that that doing that sometimes you can't recreate the magic of that emotion that comes out in that moment. Uh. And so thankfully we record them. Uh. Even when we're making the demos we record the vocals like they could be right, you know, final. And that's another Nashville thing. As you start to do these solo shows. I mean it's Creed as a unit. Will you guys ever play a band show again? I don't know, man, I mean I don't see why not. But you're not broken up right now? You're just not to get am I right on this. I wouldn't say that we are broken up. No, I would say we are on an extended hiatus. Um. You know, I I've recently uh spoken with Mark and and Flip and and you know we we stay in touch, not not like I don't want to mislead anybody. You know, It's not like we're we're texting every day or calling every day, but you know we reach out um on holidays and birthdays, and we have ongoing business that we handle. But you wouldn't be asposed to ever getting back together again to play shows? No? Absolutely not so much. Oh no, absolutely not. I would. I'm not opposed to that at all. I mean, it just has to be the right um, the right time, uh and and I I think you know, the right the right energy and vibe uh and and it has to be authentic uh, in organic uh and and we all have to be in the right place to do it. And I and I think we're close to that, you know, Like I said, I don't see any reason why, um that couldn't happen uh in the near future. You know, when you see someone gets so popular, it doesn't matter what it is, what if it's a writer or an artist, like I love Coldplay. Cold plays on my favorite bands, and the fact that people can hate on Coldplay just because they're so famous, that's like the platform continues to rise till so many people see you that you're just gonna get enough haters. I have to tell my fiance that now because she didn't want the public life at all, but because she's with me, she now has two Instagram followers, and she people will come at her. She's like, I didn't do anything right. She's like, I don't want to, Like people are death threats talking to how ugly she is and she's not ugly at all, and she shouldn't be killed, you know. And so I'm like, you know, your platform, even though you don't want it, has been raised, and so more people see you, people get jealous. You had to feel that at some point where you guys were so big ya felt that um and and it it hurt UM for a number of years once once things turned from you know, I'll never forget uh. You know, I've got an article framed, uh in in one of my rooms where I keep stuff, and it says, you know, creed in Scott Staff or this summer's rock and roll Saviors. Okay, So we went from those type of headlines to literally, you know, the most hated band in America. And it was weird, like going from those two extremes. Um. And it hurt because you didn't understand why. Um. And it also hey that that's not a part of what the rock and roll dream is supposed to be. That. Did that happen to Zeppelin? Did that happen to the Doors? Did that happen to YouTube? Did that you start asking those questions. I'm not saying that we're in that category of those bands at all, but you know, we we we were pretty big band at the time, and um, you know, and and and some of the hate you know, I'm human man, and and you know it it hurt and and you know, and I took it personal, uh for a number of years and you know, and then there was a number of years where I got angry about it. Uh. And I'm the type of person that, uh, you know, gets angry and and says, well, screw you now, I'm gonna screw myself. And so instead of lashing out at them, I actually lashed out at myself. So I began to self sabotage. Uh. And you know, and that's when I began to kind of you know, when I would feel down and got to got into depression, began to you know, you know, drink and do things that that would lead to behaviors that were very out of character for me when I was under the influence, and it was just self sabotage and and it was it was dealing with with almost being without you know, I don't want to sound like a victim and in any sense, but I felt, you know, it was kind of traumatizing, you know, uh, to be so elevated and then to have such hate. Uh. And it wasn't so much that it was from the fans, because it wasn't from the fans, from the media, and so it was public and it was out there, and so it was embarrassing on one regard publicly and then it hurt publicly. Uh. And then I contributed to that by my inability to handle that. I wasn't equipped uh emotionally or or with the maturity, and did not have the people around me for support um that I needed to to advise me. Uh. You know, I'm sitting right here. Uh. And and my publicist Tiffany is here. My god, had I had her in, man, you know, had I had my wife Jacqueline, Uh. Oh, my god, had I had my wife Jacqueline in you know, so many things would have been different in my life. But you know what, I probably would not have Milan my daughter. I probably wouldn't have Daniel my son, or Anthony my son. So things all happened the way they were supposed to happen. Man. Uh. And you know, of course there are things that I wish I could do different and change, uh, definitely with how I handled certain things, how I handled some of the success, you know, with the over partying and the over confidence and and sometimes the ego getting out of control, you know, and which I looking back and now having a twenty two year old son, I mean that's part of being twenty and twenty four. Uh. So you know, he's not even you know, playing arenas and he deals with those issues. So imagine throwing you know, money and on that. You know, I wish I could go back and be more mature and and do those things. But but uh, you know, at this point in my life, man, it's it's all about peace and and and happiness and enjoying what you do and all of those experiences that we just talked about, that that, you know, the good and the bad, have led me to a place, uh today where you know, I have an amazing wife and and four beautiful children that I'm able to be a father too, and and and and coach little league and and uh, you know, go to recitals for my daughter and play guitar with my daughter. You know, my my daughters sitting in our music room and she's like, Dad checked this out and she's playing, arms wide open. Uh. And I'm like, oh, I can't wait to have you on stage with me playing at Of everything we talked about, what's funny is of all the success and the songs and the blah blah blah, that where I saw you light up the absolute most was you talking about your kids. Absolutely, of all the success and the money and the records and the deals. You're like, yeah, that's but when you were talking about your kids and your family, that's in your face being went to a whole new place. Are you happy right now? Absolutely? I'm I'm happier today, uh than I think I've ever been in my entire life. And and that's that's the God's honest truth. I am a very very blessed and fortunate man. I have an amazing wife, I have an amazing children. I have an amazing family, people that speak truth into my life to make me a better human being. You know, I couldn't I couldn't ask for anymore. Uh. And and I'm thankful, so thankful and so grateful uh for the life that that that I was given, uh And for the fans and and and for the music industry that gave my music a chance and an opportunity, uh and and all that that has afforded me. I mean, I tear up, man, because I'm so I'm so thankful uh and grateful uh for all that, but also just to be here uh and and to be able to sit in this moment here with you and talk about all this uh and reflect on it and realize you know what what a what a blessing and a gift that it was, and and and uh and just the opportunity that I could get to continue to do this man, Uh with all these other blessings. Um, I'm very blessed. And I hope that you know my story, uh, you know some some of the stuff that we haven't touched on. I hope that my story and and and then the music that that has inspired and will continue to inspire, UM, can can help someone else along the way, man, because life is not all about me uh and uh, it's it's about what I can give uh and what I can share and how I can help others uh and and that's what I feel my purpose uh is at this point in my life, aside from being a husband and a father. Well, with that, I think we've we've done it all for today. Listen. This has been a thrill for me. We sat here for an hour. We've scratched the service. Listen. We could we could have done another hour, but you gotta ride and I gotta you know, but six months, nine months, maybe a year, we'll do it again. You get more music out you want, you're ready to put it out this to come knock on my Do you know where I live? Now? Yeah? Man, you come knock on my door and maybe showing up. You're only like eight miles from my house. What that would be the we play basketball in the backyard. You still play ball? It so well, let me say that, I know you don't do a lot of interviews, and so to come over and do this with me for an hour, it is just genuinely an exciting day for me. So so thank you. I say that as sincerely as possible. I can talked to everybody. I'll be honest with you. I've pretty jaded at this point. I don't give a crap. I'm like, it's part of my job of talking to people. Occasionally you get that little like flutter again where you're like, oh this is cool. Now was the day for me? Oh thanks man. So, I I appreciate you and everybody who reached out to you saying I'm not a total tool like I appreciate them whomever they are. You know, everyone who reached out to me told me just how authentic and real you were, and and man, I feel that right here in this room. I see it by looking at you. Man, I've been around the block. So just just like you, Just like you, I'm jaded and I get a vibe in a sense of somebody. And you know, because we've met so many people in our lives that when we meet someone new and we feel their vibe, we've met someone like them before, you know what I'm saying. And and you've got great energy, man, And thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. A very final question. You can answer it with a word. Did people ever stop you at Walmart and goat hey you, Scott Stap Yes, yes they because that would beat me. I'll be like, oh dude, I wouldn't even say hi, I would just take a picture from behind you and to be like I'd posted me like I think that's Scott stabbed. Um. Listen, you guys can follow Scott go to his show's um He's at Scott's stab on Instagram and TikTok um Creed Instagram. Still you guys are still to me, just still rolling, yeah, man, still rolling? Yes they are. Let's go. Let's do it. You heard it here, Let's go. I will be all right. Scott. Great to see you, Thank you, so great to see you. Thanks for having me. Bobby