FLASHPOINT FOCUS (WIP): Carson Wentz with Zak Keefer

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Speaker 1: Be around the NFL podcast personal foul. Yes, it's a play on words from the Chris Westling podcast studio. It's around the NFL. Danhansis, Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal. I hope nobody's roughing you up, Marcus. We'll roll over strong and take care of any adversary. I'd almost invited just to find out what sort of come up and so they would receive from the two of you. I thought it was referring to us, and I was thinking I personally need to change um and turn a new leaf in the year off season, just be kinder and gentler to Mark Sessler that maybe we have roughed him up too much, and uh, I think we should just all don't I get annoyed at you more than you get a nad at me. I feel like I need to maybe be there. There was the season, Yeah, the season I think it was. It was just like Mark was just banging me over the head pretty much most of the year. It all blurs into one. There's therapy that you guys can go to together and work those things out, or right on the mic. I prefer that. Yeah, I think that's where it should take place in my audience. I'm not known as a man that throws hands. But when we were at Lakisha's a couple of weeks ago, uh, Nick Westling reminded me that, uh, some guy kind of got up in Colleen's business and Tybee and then I got up in that dude's business and then Nick rolled over and it was like, do we need to hands? And it was like I did that, and I was like, I'm pretty proud of myself. I might have been drinking that night. No, the guy was gonzo, so it seems like he had an appropriate, you know, sort of place there, but it was where it went. That's why he's the best there. So we're gonna go from a two years encountering global pandemic into World Worth three. So that's the thing that might be happening right now. But the good thing is here in the round. The NFL podcast will never stop. We will keep potting no matter what happens in society. If we can make it through the last year, I think we can already had our own World War three. This part feels easy. I'm not saying for everyone involved, but for our simple task we can plow through all right. Not for everyone involved, just I don't want to get you know, we're good. I'm excited. I know you guys know I'm excited because the Flashpoint Focus series debuts today. Carson Wentz is the subject and Zach Kieffer the athletic will be on the program. So get ready for that. And we'll also now we haven't done this in a while. You know, it's we're settling into the cadence of the off season. We're gonna do some news. You wanna do some news, Let's do some news, Ricky. It's gonna be a great game. I'm in a really good game. There's a lot of people who'd like to be calling that game, but it should be a lot of fun. And Troy Aikman still pissed. I imagine that he was sent to cover the Eagles Bucks playoff game instead of going into Dallas to cover Niners San Francis Niners against Dallas. And we'll talk about Troy Aikman in just a moment. But let's start where we must always start at this time of year. Now it's now become a tradition on this podcast. Let's talk Aaron Rodgers. We talked on Tuesday about the situation uh Rogers leaving the cryptic Instagram post telling everybody to read a book. Get off, get off my porch with that. You didn't like that. I'll read when I want how I want. You're not. I know you're a Jeopardy champion, but I don't need that. Then he goes on Pat mcfeed says nothing about his future. Brian Guda kunst the GM. He has his press gathering this week, like Goody, and he hits some questions about Aaron Rodgers. This has to be so annoying for good acause even things things don't seem as um sour as they were last year, this has still got to be annoying. He was asked what he does, Goody if Aaron Rodgers comes to him seeking a trade. You know, those are kind of some hypotheticals. I don't think we're gonna go down those roads right now. And then Goody was also asked how does rogers uncertain situation affect everything else as he tries to build a champion in Green Bay right now? Yeah, I think you know, obviously, everything around here kind of centers around the quarterback. That's kind of how we do things. So it's a big piece. It's a Domino that um kind of has to fall before we go down, you know, other avenues. So um, so it's important you know, as we go through this and the puzzle pieces that we gotta make fit. I think so um that's the first one to go. So that's a big fat no dot Greg obviously, because here's the thing. When Rodgers the report coming a month, He's not gonna leave everybody hanging throughout the spring and summer. Well he can't because there's a team involved here that needs to try to build their roster with free agency upon us. ESPN's Diana Rossini reported that Aaron Rodgers will be informing the packers of his decision soon and it cannot come a second too soon for me. The interesting part of that report was that there were multiple offers on the table for Rodgers. I thought, I thought that was interesting. That's not surprising that it's already happened. I wonder if they're like these official offers. I mean, is gooded cunts picking up the phone, is gooded cunts just obsessed with the Monday of next week's announcement. I believe. I think we're hoping to find out what's going to be the German game because you know, gooda cunts wants to go back to the homeland. Uh in Germany. I just think to the center of this, I think he's slow playing this because he's expecting Rodgers to come back. But the biggest thing is the contract. Aaron Rodgers is that domino. So yeah, okay, you want to come back. That's part one. The complicated part is what's the deal that he's going to get to reduce a forty six million dollar cap number, which is what he has right now. He's not gonna play next year under his current base salary, so they're gonna have to move money around. They're gonna have to do something similar for Davante Adams and hopefully for them eventually. They've already reduced their cap space this week by fifteen million dollars by restructuring some deals. There's going to be more of that. He is busy. I think they're gonna have to cut it Areas Smith at some point. There's a lot going on. The scrub by the way, the social scrub troupe alert. He scrubbed the Packers from his social media. I'm getting tired of that move at this point, all right, I already am touched. Great signing. Uh, great free agent signing, two amazing years and then one total. Uh. They could both be gone, and so I just would be stunned if it's anything but Rogers staying yeah, I'm with you. I think you just follow the money like they're aiding cap space. It's it seems to me that money would solve probably a lot with Aaron Rodgers at this point, and the way he also talked about Goody, that communication has been very good. I think the Packers in general front office has done a nice job of kind of lowering the chaos level. You can only do so much with Aaron Rodgers because he's spouting off weekly about tangential scenarios. But like from the Packers side, they've kind of tempered this. They are in control to some degree, Like I mean, they are in control like that. You can have trade offers, but it's like you get a mountain back form. I don't think there's any interest to trade him. I would assume Denver's one of those teams, because I would. I think Hackett's probably first order of business was to call up his old friends in Green Bay and say, let's at least discuss this. It's like, let him think he's in control when he's not. Isn't that what you do with man children or problem individuals? Just let them think that they're running the producer. You know, producers at this network for like the higher level talent. You got a massage that relationship. Let let them feel like they're the ones in control. Went we we handle you? I think definitely. And I think that's the way that the Packers. I don't think Cuda Gunstan, their front office and La Fleura have gotten enough credit. Uh. We were saying this last summer, I got killed for it, Mark that Rogers was being petulant and it can be difficult to deal with. Uh. But they could have panicked or reacted off that last summer and and made a move and traded him away. But they were able to get that thing calmed down enough to get him to camp to win another m v P. Obviously things didn't work out in the playoffs, but now I think they've been able to stabilize the situation. Now they just got to get this thing locked and loaded and then go about their off season. Uh. In other news, this one's interesting to me and it actually makes sense to me when you, UM, kind of try to figure out what's going on with the Niners last season, where you there was so much hype around Trey Lands drafted third overall, and the gen all thought that he was gonna be unleashed uh in the Kyle Shanahan offense, and that he was going to be a difference maker. And then you waited for him to kind of take over at some point last year and it just never did. And Jimmy Garobolo played the entire season, including a playoff win, and then they got picked off obviously um in the NFC title game. But Adam Schefter of VSPN reported that Kyle Shanahan and the Niners could stick with Jimmy g Ino uh for multiple reasons. Here one mark the QB is popular with his teammates. They like him, and that's true. We heard that a lot a lot of people barking in the on social media. Uh, you fools don't realize in paraphrasing, Uh, look at this man's record. He is a winner. All that stuff that's that obviously carries weight in that locker room. And then also Chefter reported that Trey Lance still has a ways to go in his development as a passer. Schefter said that Lance was probably further behind than people realized. Lance is greener than people realized, Trey Lance is going to need more work than people real lies, and they have a roster that can win. Now, Mark, that sounds to me. Now, I'm not saying that they think Lance is an issue or it's a mistake that they drafted him, but this is not going to what their initial plan was, and they're trying to maybe figure out a pivot here. Yeah. Schefter added that the team is in quotes happy with Lances development. No, they're not. I mean, this is not where you wanted to be at this point with this player and the move that you made, a titanic move to get into position to take this guy over Matt Jones, overfilling the blank, and his development never really took form. I mean, we spent most of last offseason presuming that Jimmy g would just get replaced at some point by Trey Lance and a Kaepernick over Alex Smith type style. It never happened. I think that you're right. I think that they if anything, you're reducing risk because you can't go in with Jordan's love two point oh and have that another Shanahan season swept by the wayside. I mean, Jimmy G. For all his flaws, I think he're right. He is the support of his teammates um in almost a surprising fashion for the fact that he also hams rings them at side of times, the coaches believe it into some degree. They've been real with Jimmy G from A to B, and so I think maybe this is like, let's just run back what happened last year. And I will also wonder if maybe that you know, people calling up the Niners to trade for Jimmy G. There maybe isn't as much demand there as we would think, right, I just think it's leverage. They have no leverage. No one's interested in Jimmy G right now, necessarily because he's probably not anyone's first option of like what we're gonna do this offseason. It's at a spot where everyone knows they're gonna trade, so that hurts their leverage, and so they have to throw it out there that we may not. And I believe it because he's not getting paid that much money. Twenty four million dollars is not that crazy a base salary. That said, I would be very surprised if he was on the roster like him plus Trey Lances, salary is not that much for the quarterback position. The problem is Jimmy G stunk like that was the worst five or six game stretch of his career. And I know he was injured, but he was one of the worst quarterbacks in the league. And I know they won despite that, and we get caught up in wins and losses. I don't need to hear about trade Lances behind or whatever. I saw him play two games. It's worth noting. Uh. He had eight point five yards per tempt, five touchdowns, two interceptions. I thought he made some plays in those two games. It wasn't that bad. And I feel like they're gonna play trade Lance. They're just holding out the possibility that if absolutely no one gives up anything for Jimmy G, that would you rather keep them than cut them. I could buy that. I could buy that. Yeah, I see, I do see this a little different. Uh. I think it is a breadcrumb that they're trying to like recalibrate their situation because Lance might not be ready in year two, which I don't think they ever anticipated. Well, here here's the reason why I buy they would keep them is because if you trade them, you save twenty five million dollars in cap space if you cut them. Uh, it's similar, but it's a little less clean. And I just feel like they're gonna want to have a second veteran quarterback either way, and so if no one's gonna give him up anything like, okay, we I I don't buy it though. I think it's too message. I hear you, but I think it's just playing the chefter sort of leverage. Throw it out there. That's I mean, that's all in there. But I like the thing that you're striving for as an organization is a star quarterback on a rookie deal. And this, this report is disturbing. If you're a Niners fan, you're not thinking this means nothing. It's it's keeping you up at night. To some degree, it does make me wonder if Kyle Shannon and his quiet moments, you know, wishes he get stuck to his guns and taken mac Jones. I think it's there is a I think this report and we'll see how it plays out is to me another maybe seed of doubt at least amongst the football guy mass. Then yeah, where's this report? Comes like like I think people forget that week seventeen game that last made the wrong How long have you guys been doing this show together? Like how long? Like Dan does his pause and then you too, just like maybe they're forcefully trying to end the bit, but it's just like once it takes off it you're right from a dramatic pause angle. We did a greg and I did a poor job there, Erica, But I understand that could have been that could have been a pushback also, even if it was something they didn't, I think they were doing it. I like the bit. I mean, I'm not even calling it a bit. I think it's it's high drama and it's shows. It was in the middle of the sense. Sure, but well I guess, you know, I understand how that feels sometimes, So you just gotta you know, you gotta roll the punches. Dan acts absolutely, Mark Mark, how do you get by? How do you survive? It's not you know, it's it's a what Janard penalty? Rough in the sense? All right? Uh? Time now for news and notes presented by up work where you could build the team that will build your business. Learn more at upwork dot com. Nail that read all right, now boys, Troy Aikman. Okay, here here's the drama around Troy right now? Is he gonna stay at Box? I love that tune, Lady d d Well. Let's see the That next part is where it really takes off, Ricky. But I understand why you cut it short? Or will Troy Aikman go to Thursday Night Football for Amazon? See they don't have a song yet, but once they do, this is a placeholder. That's the Amazon. Okay, I can get some water maybe some waterfall? Act good call Ricky and post? Can we had some waterfall in there? Or does he end up at and I think you will? Monday Night Football? Monday Night up? All needs a real analyst and could it be Troy? From our boy Andrew Marshawn over at the New York Post Hall of Famer. Troy Aikman is expected to leave Fox Sports to become the main analyst for ESPNS Monday Night Football. The deal will be for five years, according to sources, and his yearly salary is expected to approach or exceed the neighborhood of Tony Romo seventeen and a half mill per year deal with CBS. The deal is not signed yet, so things can change. And this is a dramatic little melodrama that's a soap profit on this whole uh carousel with the analysts, and it's getting even more juicy now as the money gets bigger. But the deal is near completion. ESPN declined comment mark Aikman's move. He was connected to Amazon a lot. We thought that's where he's gonna end up with al Michaels, who looks like he'll be the voice of Thursday Night Football, but going to Monday Night Football apparently busting up that unit and giving people a reason not to just watch the Manning cast every week. That's a big play by ESPN if that's what goes down. Yeah, I mean, if all this, all these moving parts, I can't think of a year where, like the announcing teams that we've been so accustomed to, uh drinking in with, all these games could shift and change so much, so dramatically. Because you know, we know that al Michaels was someone that wanted He's in talks to do t NF. He wanted Aikman to go there as well. It would leave Fox with a major hole next to Joe Buck. Joe Buck is someone that was whispered about in this article as someone that ESPN might try to lower away to recreate the Achmen Buck team. So I think, you know, we have to see where the apemen is the first piece here, but a lot would change. And I you know, if you're Steve Levy, Lewis Riddick and Brian Greasy, you're just the person that's always um they've been looking up self from you from from from point a right. And in the article by Marcia and he mentions how they're gonna have so many games because the ABC is also adding games and their Saturdays, that they're gonna need two teams, and that's a nice way to cut kind of implying that they'll be the backup team. I just look at like, why is this article out there right now? It says on the verge expected to That just feels like, let's how you get ahead of a story, Rosenthal. I don't want the guy that reports when it's finalized. You want to be the one that lets everyone knows what he's doing. Of course he does, He's doing a great job. My point is it left the window open for Fox Sports to come back in. They clearly weren't paying Aikman what he wanted, all right, I'm just saying it. I wouldn't. I don't want to like totally talk about all what it all means. And al Michael's it sounds like his negotiation accordion Marshawn at the one yard line of Amazon. But you know, sometimes he got a Super Bowl right in front of your at the one yard line, Alcolm Butler, alculp Bela. Hopefully that's not his own one yard life, So who knows, maybe al Michael's ends up. As you mentioned at ESPN, how this all came to be is really fascinating to me. When Romo got the seventeen and a half million Aikman, who is also Cowboys quarterback, I saw all the love that Romo was getting. His head exploded, he picked up the brain I was better than him as a player. I'm sure he's confident in himself as a broadcaster, and I'm making way less money than this guy. He apparently used that leverage to get a new deal before last year, getting a raise up to thirteen million dollars, and that deal had an out that he could blow it up after just one year. And that looks like what he's doing. Right now, and then he's covering Eagles playoff game and he's like, hell, no, I am gone. He gone. He got better too. I think he started trying harder and got better in the last two years. I really believe that we talked about that he sort of was reaching a new level as maybe Alma was, you know, settling and you know, taking a little bit of a step back. I think Aikman got the eye of the type I think Aikman to me, and this might connect to as he got further away from playing, although he hasn't played in twenty years now, but also maybe any aspirations about working in a front office or anything like that. I felt like he was more willing to criticize players and coaches who needed to be criticized in recent years, and I always think that's good. I don't like when you could tell Drew Brees a guy's being gun shy because he doesn't want to affect relationships. You have to call it like you see him. And I feel like Aikman did that in recent years in a way he hadn't before that. Marshawn doesn't mind like just throwing some mess out there. He threw out Sean McVeigh as a person they might go after he threw out John Lynch, who, oh, by the way, is the GM of the So like Tom Brady, are these coming out of nowhere? And Brady unlike the others he said, like it's there's no indication that he would be interested. Um, but the fact that he said that about Brady and not those other two guys, Like, do you think some of these players though, or some of these individuals would rather sign up? You can't have too many of these because a copycat that goes wrong would be a nightmare. And I never watched it, but more like the Manning Cast format seems to me to be the future to some degree of how we watch games. I'm not saying it's the only one, but these like high arch deals. It's like I could see some players saying I would rather do that, but not have to do the other thing where maybe you suck at it? Can I share a downside of this because I, like many other people, really grew to enjoy the Manning Cast. Uh when Anthony Anderson wasn't on the show. And what I if you actually have aikman on the main telcast. Now I have a decision to make where businesses and and I mean no disrespect of the other guys leaving and the and the crew. It was not a hard decision before. I flipped back and forth, partly because my kids hated the Manning cast. They were like, what is the point of this? But I liked it. Back and forth. It's like sort of depending on the game, even the bigger game, I'm going. If it's a big game, I'm going Aikman and I'm doing some flipping. Because when it was I want just the Mannings. I don't even need guests to guests give me second quarter, fourth quarter. When it was just the Mannings, then it was really I would find myself like fault, like dreamily falling into the Manning cast. But then like eight minutes of game action was going on that I wasn't paying attention to. It's like, wait a minute, we gotta talk about this tomorrow. So when like Phil Nicholson his drinks down, you know question four at Eyton Manning talk about the Manning cast curse for Phil Nicholson. Oh, they did get him. They got Phil too, Uncle Phil. Finally, Oh I hope they doesn't move and I hope they bump up Bolston because it just to me, it upgrades everyone wins is great and this is this is not a show of Marshawn, because it does excellent work. But I keep seeing in his articles and elsewhere. And this is especially important because Fox says to the next three super Bowls, trust me, they're gonna be fine. If Kevin Burkhardt and Greg Olsen called the game, they will be fine. It's not like it's a panic to get someone else in there. Those guys are pros, who are bros. That was News and I was presented by up Work around the NFL guest Kevin Burkhart. Yeah, I love Burkhard, the world's work marketplace. Learn more at up work dot com. Finally in the News, that was the interview. I love Burkhart also and could not wait to speak with him. And my Mike was not on and like we were on. It was our television show, remember that, and I and like it was one of the just like at that point, just you know, a bomb land on my house please. That was a very clear instance of whistle personal foul. Yeah, well yes, hey, how about like let's get Kevin Harlan in there with Aikman. We don't need to go try to get Joe Buck. Harlan Aikman, who's not loving that. I mean, Westwood will survive as well. They will find Satman was doing the All Star Game one week after doing the Super Bowl. Who has that sort of versatility at that level? The guy is drunk, the guys. Finally in the news, Tom Brady has quote unquote retired. Well, he's got a year to kill before he comes back into the league. Uh and while he has that time, he is going to play himself in a movie titled eight for Give Me that Fox Sound again. Because we're talking show business now eighty four Brady a football themed road trip flick set to begin production this spring. According to The Hollywood Reporter, Brady will produce the film Hollywood parlance that is heresy, putting some money. He's fronted in. He gets the back end. It's got the I P. That's nice. It will start. Listen to this cast of All Star legends, Lily Tomlin, Jane Fonda. Well, some people don't like Jane, they don't like some of the things that you did in her past. But good performer, great performer, Barbaralla, Rida Moreno, and Sally Field, who's your favorite of that group. It's one of the weirdest couple of minutes on the show, Tomlin, I guess I like, I'm just looking forward to I think people forget Rita Moreno was. She's ninety years old. She was in Singing in the Rain and the King and unbelievable. Here's the plot, Greg, you tell me if you'll go see this movie. Four women who traveled to see Brady play in Super Bowl to fifty one. That's a game, of course against the Falcons. The fifth title, uh March Brady launched onductions. We get it. You were the pick in the draft enough, which will help make the film along with Paramount Pictures and Endeavor Content. Not Fox. But that's you know, that's neither here nor there. I mean, I love love a road trip movie. I mean it, it's like an older version of that Britney Spears movie Crossroads, Crossroads, Shoulder. What a class Erica Tampos's face. Yeah, I my my brother, my dad were at that game, so that you know it's a lot of good. He's a great actor. Your brother and dad were at the Crossroads. Form me, maybe they can get into Brady was so good on in Stuck on You. The Fairly Brothers movie starring that is not one of the better Fairly Brothers. Can hear him and Lawyer malloy we're on it together that I'm just looking forward to see how he grows as an actor. Is that the movie where Jack Black fell in love with Gwyneth Paltrow in the Fat Suit? No? No, absolutely, and that's a totally different movie. Stuck on Stuck on you about Siamese Twins? Was it? Yeah, you could make movies like that two thousand three. Fairly Brothers were in different times, different times, my friends. I will see this in the theater, probably on its in its opening week. Brady hosted Saturday Night Live. I used that as the gauge. Like Peyton was very good on Saturday Night Live. They're They're Michael Phelps was brewing rule on Saturday Night Live. Eli was fine, Jeter was fine, like these guys are. Eli was a lot better than Jeter. Eli was solid, all right. Jeter wasn't great. But it's a great ballplayer though. But Brady was not good at all. Wooden was bad. Hell, Jordan's brutal. Most of them are. Joe Montana had one great sketch where he was going upstairs to do something, and the fans of the SNL know what that is. Will Brady recreate the same hair he had back then? I mean, I know he's he seems to have a different hairstyle, so many wigs, so sure well he could do us stand Oslovski's class here. There's a lot of chance time fling a plants, crafty acting skills. All right, that's what's happening in the news. And uh, we'll take a break here and when we come back, Oh yeah, Flashpoint Focus Colon Carson Wentz working title, Maybe maybe not after the break. All right, welcome back, and it is time our flash Point Focus series Colon Carson and Wentz. And who better to help us, help guide us through this maze in the Hoosier State. Then a legend. He is a dad to two awesome little girls. He covers the cults, the NFL for the Athletic. He's an analyst for Wish TV and adjunct professor for Indiana Anniversity. And he also wrote a beautiful piece on Chris West for the Athletic. Of course, we're talking about Zach Kieffer, who knows what's going on with the cults. What's up body. What a dramatic intro. I don't know if I can love up to all that that you just described. Well, it's all there in the Twitter bio back and uh, we thank you for joining us. And you are a professor and you do look professor oial right now, and I think we all applaud you for that as well. You have levels. I try to play the role on Thursdays during the spring. I've had to stop class a couple of times when news happens and say, hey, you guys, give me five minutes. I gotta text somebody to get this news out. But hey, it's a good lesson in how the business works right now. It's it's been rap sheets move for a while. He basically has given up on, you know, being polite or really human communication because he can just stop any conversation in the middle of it. There's actually no one texted him. That's just what he did. Zach. Let's let's get into it, because yes, they we were all trying to figure out, like everyone else, what the cults are gonna do at the quarterback position. And you wrote, um a really good piece on the Athletic about this. You talked about it on your podcast. Uh. In fact, I have the exact wording from Zach and if he leaves nothing. You know, these Gerno types, they're very pointed in the words they choose. It. It's my firm expectation, based on recent conversations that the Colts will move on from Carson Wentz and Zach. That's three years and eighty two million dollars left on the deally signed with the Eagles in but only one year of guaranteed money. I'll start here. There have been so many bread crumbs about moving on from Wentz, But how do you actually do that? Do you think there's a trade market for Wentz? And if they do shake free of this commitment, where do they go from here? Yeah? I probably should have couched that by saying never say never. But he's moving on, He's not coming back. That's my like I said, like I wrote, my firm expectation, he will need to not be back for a second year. And to be clear, they're gonna own fifteen million dollars and that's not even the deciding factor here. That's something that they're just gonna have to live with. Um, they're gonna move on from him. Trade market. I'm really fascinated to see because there's a lot of teams that need quarterbacks. And when you stack up Wentz's numbers and production last year, which wasn't horrible against a lot of these guys, it compares favorably well. But and I think a lot of your audience probably looks at twenty seven touchdowns and seven interceptions and says he was pretty good. And there were stretches last year when he was pretty good. But for those who watched the tape, you see the problems that arose. You know, they had to become a run first offense with Jonathan Taylor because they didn't trust the quarterback. He cost them late in a lot of games. They were two and five and one score games. The quarterback had a lot to do with that. And I've even gotten to Las Vegas and Jacksonville when he absolutely just melted down. They cost away percent chance at the playoffs. It just ended disastrously. And I'm very, very convinced that they're moving on. It's just gonna happen, whether they can find a trade partner or not, and if not, they'll just cut them before March nineteen. That extra million is due. Wow, Well, I think two they could get a late round pick firm or something that makes the money go a little bit easier. Is it just an emotional thing? It feels like it's er say, from the outside, because there's there's different sources, and there's an ESPN report you've been writing about it that really last month and a half, and it feels kind of like the boss just wants them gone. And if if it wasn't for er, say, do you feel like reich uh and Chris Ballard would maybe be as aggress of getting rid of him without even knowing kind of what's behind door number two and who they could get back. Yeah, that's a good question, and that's fair. Um, I understand the emotion that comes after Jacksonville. I'm sure you guys talked about it. I mean, this was in Urs's words. I talked to him about eight or nine days after the season ended, and he said this was an epic shortfall that stunned and shocked and appalled as all. I mean, when don't you hear an NFL owners say that they were road favorites by fourteen, the biggest spread they've ever had an NFL history, and there in their history, rest of the teams that day too, by the way, it's worth correct. Yeah, yeah, And I've written that they need more receiver than Michael Pittman Jr. They don't have anything at tight end. It's not all on Carson. It's not um. But after this season this was very telling. A year ago they said we want Philip Rivers back. He retired. This time around, both Chris Ballot and Frank right, and Chris can't help himself. He tells you what he thinks most of the time. He said, you've got to make the layoups Carson, which is code forward, dude, just take the check downs. And then secondly, neither of them committed to bringing him back and said we're gonna look at all our options. They're looking at their options and they're not great right now. That's that's my question with Chris Ballard. I mean, we just are coming out of a period last offseason where the Rams swung for the fences. They don't care about first round picks. They'll mortgage the future from Matthew Stafford. The read on Chris Ballard, I mean, they don't have a first round pick. Where do you go? Are you going to try to sell the cults fans that Teddy Bridgewater is the right move at this point or some sort that the free agent class is a mess. What do you see them doing. Are they a candidate to maybe try to get a Russell Wilson or someone like that, or is it just finding another mid tier quarterback because the distaste with Carson Wentz is so intense. Isn't that telling they don't have a good plan B they don't have There's no like obvious answer. They have some money, but they don't have a first round pick because of the Wentz trade. There's no obvious answer. And they're still going to move on from Carson Wentz. That tells you how they feel about him in my opinion, That's my take away. And Mark, I mean, what's the play you can't sell Teddy Bridgewater. I mean you could make the case that Carson Wentz is a better option, and I know there's last with both. But the reality is, and I wrote this, this team might need to accept the fact that they go backwards at quarterback in two And it's a really interesting dilemma because you've got guys like Quenton Nelson and Darius Lender and they had seven Pro Bowlers last year. That's the most in the league, and then you make the playoffs. And and it's funny because for all those years with Andrew Luckett was they had a quarterback and not a whole lot around him. Now they have so many good pieces. Objectively, this is a pretty good roster. They've got some holes to fill that this is a pretty good roster, but they don't have the one thing you need. And I wonder how Chris Ballard's mindset has possibly changed after the playoffs, right, because they don't have a quarterback you gotta throw in this league, they don't have wide receiver weapons. And the Rams went out and spend all that money and it paid off, and the and the Colts have been the opposite of that. I wonder if their approach changes. But they're not going anywhere until they figured this quarterback situation out. And this year will be Frank Right's fifth see and it's his fifth different starting quarterback. That's absurd, Well, that's crazy. Another status their ninth and offense in that span with five four different quarterbacks. Two of them are good, right And ultimately, yeah, it's the list of Tolzine, luck Brissette, Rivers, wentz and ultimately they backed themselves in the corner at the didn't day Zacht because when you give up first and third picks to the Eagles, you inherit wins. You inherit his contract. And I want to say, like your seven touchdowns, seven interceptions, you know, going into say Week sixteen, they felt like one of the best teams in the league to me. And yet there's a decision when the owners firing off two am tweets about we need to be better and we have to score more points and all this stuff. The writing seemed to be on the wall. But yeah, there doesn't seem to be a clear path. That's a problem. Then I looked at something you wrote, Um, when you look back on uh Chris Ballard what he had to say last offseason, and he said, it is not an exact science regarding drafting quarterbacks. Every one thinks you just take one and you're gonna fix the problem. Look, taking one will get you get y'all off my ask for a little bit, then journalist media. But the second that guy doesn't play well, I'm gonna be the first one not run out of the building. So Wentz is gonna be kicked out the door. And you don't have a first round pick, and the free agent trade market is not overly appetizing. Yeah, I don't see how they don't take a step back, and and maybe Ballards starting to get nervous now because he's like, man, this is gonna come back on me if we go seven and ten next year. You know what tweets I'm getting. I mean, I'm getting tweets people saying well, let's just take Mike White, Let's just take a flyer on that guy, or let's start Sam Ellinger. But and I love same Elenger. He's a great kid, but like, that's not an NFL starter in my opinion, based on what I saw a training camp. I mean, the shame of it is this team is ready to win, and I don't know what win necessarily means. I think they could compete, certainly for the a f C South Crown and maybe make a run in the playoffs if they had the right quarterback. But they've been in this hamster wheel for five years and I don't see it ending this offseason. They might just have to eat this season. They might just have to suck it up and take their losses and and try to go after a better quarterback class next year in the draft, a better free agent class next year, and then and just see where they're at. But it's frank right here next year. It's just about here next year. I can't tell you that, but I will tell you this. I don't expect this to happen. But if Russell Wilson somehow becomes available, Aaron Rodgers somehow becomes available, first, they would swing for the defences. In the second absolutely what he would do whatever he could, and they've got to get those. They've got the cap space to do it, They've got the roster to be inviting, and I think they've actually got the internal discipline that you wouldn't hear that much about him until they actually got them. You know they That doesn't surprise me that they're not in the mix when you're hearing these different rumors this offseason, because I think they keep it pretty close to the vest, and that's to their credit. I think it makes sense when you know you don't have the guy, you gotta move on. You gotta just keep trying, because I don't think it's a step back for whoever they end up with. They'll end up with someone, whether it's Dalton or Teddy or Rabinsky or whoever it's gonna be, Jimmy g Like, to me, they're all in the same bucket. And actually most of those guys, to me, are more attractive because they're a mediocre that you know who they are week to week. And I think Wentz is a mediocre that was in a perfect situation with the guy that he knows and right that you still don't know he is who he is week tweaking. To me, that's not that big of a step back. There's actually a lot of sort of borderline. QB one two is when I do the QB index like that that twenty two thirty five range, those guys are available, one of them will step in. They'll kind of be the same as Carson Wentz in the end. And Frank Reik has shown he can coach up those guys. And that's not like the least of my problems. My bigger problem with the Cults right now is that they've got other issues, Like they've got a ton of free agents. I'm curious what you think they're big issue is because their pass rush was not their last year. Uh, They've got free agents at wide receiver, they've got two starting offensive lineman, that are free agents. Where where do you think they're gonna be focused other than quarterback? Because I think that's the sneaky issue with the Cults right now is maybe their roster isn't quite as good for two right now as people think they that it was. Yeah, that's well said, Greg, and I want to get your guys thoughts on this. Their roster is good, but are they good at the wrong spots? I mean, how valuable is it to have a left guard? You're gonna pay twenty million dollars quite Nelson's awesome, but in a center, and and you don't have a good left tackle, and Eric Fisher probably comes back with lack of a better option at left tackle. It's so hard to fill these positions, these premium positions without a first round pick. And they haven't had a top ten pick in ten years, and this year they won't have a first rounder for the third time in four years. And it's really hard to address those luxury picks. And they have the same problems that they did last year, and that's on Chris Ballard. They have a quarterback dilemma the same as they did last year. They have glaring needs at wide receiver. They have glaring needs at tight end, and they don't have a pass rush. And maybe Quiti Peg gets better in your two and I think he will. I think he's a pretty good in the first round. Yeah, four sacks in his last five starts, and I think you start to see it. They're really high on Dao to get out of Vanderbilt, who came up the A c L didn't play much, but has that looked in, that feel and and that burst that you want to see from a defensive end. So maybe that's fixed. But they have holes to fill at the most at the priceiest positions in the league, the hardest to fill, and they don't have a lot of draft capital to fill up. It's just not gonna be easy. And when you add the quarterback headache on top of it, they're just stuck in mediocrity right now, right And when you talk about they need help at wide receiver, they need help at tight end. I mean you're talking about bringing in We're we're actually saying the name Mitchell Trabisky. It's gonna be a long autumn and winner with the offense that needs help. And when you're gonna say we're so done with Carson Wentz maybe at that Jaguars game. It happened back in Week five, and then they closed the season out with two wins. All this emotion wouldn't be bubbling up. You stick with Carson Wentz because he wasn't as awful I think as some people are thinking. But instead you're to go plug in play a new quarterback. It sounds like a disastro scenario to me. Well, I'll just say this, I'll say this and because and we'll let you go because we know you need to teach the professors of tomorrow. Uh in mirror minutes. But after the Christmas Night win over Arizona, and it was that was the peak of the season, and Wentz and has Wentz has that amazing play where he keeps a play alive and finds the guy with the perfect dart and in the back of the end zone. Um, everything goes to hell. You lose the Vegas, you lose to Jacksonville, you go home. I'm just curious what you think, Zach, because I know Whens rub some people the wrong way. It seems like behind the scenes, perhaps maybe you could speak on that. And his play was up and down, but did it had was there any way that Wentz wasn't coming back or was coming back. If they make the playoffs, say and go one and done. Are they in the same position now? If they win a playoff game, There's no way they move on, right, Like, did it have to play out this way for him to be one and done in Indianapolis? You know, I thought that was the case, and I thought I remember looking at Chris baout after Wentz made that play. Remember he played terrible in the second third quarters, He's missing high school throws. Then he makes three great throws in the last drive, hits patent for the for the game, sailing touchdown. Right, great moment. They're nine and six, they won a game with a lot of guys out there the COVID. They're the team nobody wants to play in the playoffs, right, and then they ended up being the team that nobody did play in the playoffs. My thought was they would bring him back and not over react to Jacksonville. Right, it was just an awful day. But this move is not going to be based solely on football. That's my understanding, and I've talked to people in the know. It's just not based on how he played on the field. I just think the Colts are convinced, the top decision makers are convinced that he's not the guy, and they're not willing to run it back and just hope for better and whether and and that's not going to answer your question, Greg about who's who's gonna step in and make them better? Mark right, like Travisky or whoever it is. Remember it's Jimmy G. But you got to give up draft capital get Jimmy G. I think, right, So it's not about the next play. It's about the fact that they're just not willing to forward with this guy. That's my understanding. And by the end of March, we're gonna have an answer. All right, Zach, we thank you so much. We're gonna be in Indianapolis next week, so I don't know if there's any local haunts that you could point us in the direction, or maybe we could toss one back. You just let us know when we're there. Let's do it. Let's not go to Saint Almost because that's appreciate that everybody does. I got so many off the beaten path spots and you guys will love, so we'll hit we'll hit up next week. I try to get some Westling brothers to drive in, so it could be it could be a home. Maybe some of your students join us. If that's a lad, I don't know. I don't know. You know, Mark always goes down that right, It's always It's always been Mark stream to I should just have you guys, teach. I should just have you guys. All guests speak in my class. My students would love that. We're expensive. I got nothing for you. There we go, Zach, Thank you very much, buddy, and follows Zack on the athletic and everything he does over there. You know you had to, Greg, you had to. I know what you're doing, right, and I didn't want to. We're in the middle of having a nice conversation with a guest. Yeah, you're doing that thing again. And then and I know what's going to happen. Mark and I are gonna have to deal with it all through the sum happening and into the fall. You're gonna talk yourself into Teddy a solution. And it's if he ends up on the cults. For instance, we're gonna here in August and into September. Oh, this is actually an upgrade. They know what they have Teddy could be the answer, No, don't do that. My point with with Teddy and Wentz is like I think they're telling you what they think of Wentz, and my point is there are guys all in that same area that you can find, and Teddy's one of them. Teddy actually might be too expensive for them. I don't think there's a huge difference. I have no appetite for. Point is that's two shows in a row where Greg's like, hey, you might be able to get Teddy, but he might be too expected. My point is, there's not like people get so caught up in what's the starting quarterback. Carson Wentz isn't like so if you get Tyrod or Jacobe Brissette. There's really not a difference to me. And I think it just takes like a year two of Carson Wentz being in that role because he's going to be in that role now that everyone's like, oh, that's the wents role. They've they're they've got plenty of like mid to low level backups that you can put in there, and Frank Richell coach him up fine, and it'll be about the same as Carson. That's my point. It's not gonna be a difference. I wouldn't be worried about like that, And it seems like it's behind the scenes that's an issue A little bit too is and all that stuff. And I think you know, you brought up that they have some holes to fill at other positions, and you know everybody does basically so, but they they're missing. I counted six starters right now are free agents. That's that's that's what they have to do, just like every other two. I'm not as doom and gloom about the team, but I do see the greater issue here is that the way things have shaken out, you whiff. Let's face it, you whiffed on the Wentz trade, and now you're in a position where it's gonna be very hard to actually upgrade from Wentz because he wasn't terrible, he was just inconsistent. Um, and you're probably gonna be right back in the same spot next year where you went about nine games. And at what point, if you're the Cults, you say everything we're doing is not good enough. We need to reboot the machine. I mean, you're the GM Chris Ballard, who you know, a season ago, I think was viewed as one of the better gms in the league and who had done a lot to rebuild the cults, and now you've got to supply and demand issue at the most important position. And I think you've got an issue where you've probably got different people in the building wanting different things, but the big boss wants Wentz out, and so the GM and the coach have to do it. I would Ballard wants about it well, but I would love to know what Frank wig, because if you're right, you want to get your like your fifth quarterback in five years, and it's gonna be I'm sorry that Wentz was. Wentz had some terrible games and I'm not a Weentz guy, and I never thought it was gonna be a great fit. But you're gonna go plug in one of these other Ham and Eggers that we're gonna have to talk about for the next six months. I like it's sometimes with with that position. I think how you respond to things not going well is a big part of it. But you just get the feeling reading between the lines of the way that they want someone as a leader to respond to tough moments, wasn't there for them, and that the aftermath of how those kind the weeks went and you heard a lot of this in Philadelphia too, they were done with him as well, and you heard a lot of it seems to burn people out for whatever. You know that you get teammates to believe in him and all that sort of thing. And I'll say this, if you watch their season closely, there were moments and I'll highlight one week in particular was the week before that Cardinals game when they hung on to beat the Patriots, where went through a bad interception that let the New England back into that game, and then the head coach was Frank Reich, said no more. I don't even want this guy throwing the ball for the rest of the game. So I think Reich certainly probably had reservations at the very least with Wentz, if not on the same page as the owner, who, by the way, some of to everyone back to the complex the night of the Jacksonville lawsuit the road game, and you could just picture and I wish there's a biopic that comes out where he goes no more, no more. Carson wasn't just like yelling at yeah, it was over. He was done. And I I really think that Colts fans, and I'm really surprised, and even some of the media there they should they should realize that their coach and GM are a great combo, a very good combo. Frank Reich is a really good offensive head coach, and Ballard has done a really good job. And I was surprised when they were struggling early in the season. It was like, will Riike and Ballard be back? And I'm like, sometimes, I know the results haven't been great, but they've been a winning team most of the time. I I really think that they are a very good combo. And forget about like what's behind door number two of a quarterback. I would be worried about what's behind door number two of coach GM. I like those two guys, even if they took a step back, I think you stayed well. Versus has got to keep a lid on it on that front because I'm with you, coach GM. Combo. I mean, they've done a lot with a little They've been through weight. No one signed up for that job knowing you're gonna lose Andrew Luck, that everyone else is gonna melt down. You have to deal with five different quarterbacks. I mean, I'm with you. Keep them um West was known to say this on our show. It was a Vince Lombardi quote that football is the greatest game in the world, but has one flaw, that there's a position that is so much more important than everything else that it it could just throw off the bounds of things, like you could have everything set up well, from roster to coach to GM, but if you don't have the QB, you're kind of stuck in purgatory. And that's where it feels like the cults are right. I think he actually was referring to interior defender. Ah, it wasn't quarterback. It was interior defender, a big sort of a myth that stops the run maybe twice a game. It's you, guys, how old would you guess? Frank Reich is Actually no, I'll figure this out. I'm pretty good at this. Actually, Rich, I'm gonna say was around twenty eight or twenty nine when they had that great comeback in ninety three, and now it is thirty. Yeah, he's about sixty. Man, you nailed it on the dot. He also has his like a much younger Carol category, but yeah, I think yeah right, and yeah, a younger version of Carol. But wow, I had no idea that that man would be sixty just vitals, formal former pro athlete as a head coach. That's that's pretty good. What a start to the flash Point Focus series. I thought we were gonna, you know, it works out a new name potentially. Well, that's that goes back to Mark. What do we get on social media with this? Anything? Any other option? Nothing else grabbed me. I did think of one other option, all right, focus figures. Just using the word fin I think we stick with it um out of stubbornness. For some reason. I feel like figures. I'm just thinking hidden figures that movie, and it's confusing. What if what if it's just riggy? Here it comes flash Point colon player X. Just tighten it a little bit. I kind of like that, or even get rid of the player. It's just flashpoint. But time it's time for flash Point, and then you just get into whatever you back a lightning, flash drop flash dance, which was I think that's it. Mark just revealed his age once again. Who's not heard of that. I'm not saying I watched it. I was. I was too young to watch it when it came out. Jennifer Beale's I believe with the water pulling the chain. I remember that, I remember the person in it. I don't know. Yeah, and what is with you asking our guests to bring co eds out? I didn't. I said, like, young journalists who are interested in journalism might want to come along the right, right, if it's college, they could be twenty there, most of probably twenty. Necessarily we stayed Mark on the road. It says much more that you, the both of you, gravitate towards that aspect of it. When I was thinking about you couldn't you could just work with young students. You do not mean? How about that ericon? Did you have the same thought as us? Well? Of course she did. Well first I was like, they're eighteen. But yeah, Greg makes a good point about the legal drinking Angian America. That's why I would I would restrict it to grad students or students above. In your son, Luke, I mean, you know we're getting his daughter is Yeah, Well that's the whole different story. I could totally see Mark having like setting up like an internship to learn the business under him. All right, that'll be fine, all right, and we have more to get to. Uh flash flashpoint focus flash. But anyway, continue to hit up at Mark Sessler if we because we're gonna bring the series back. We just now got to figure out what who's going to be our our flashpoint focus next week or hit me up with something of of worth. When he said you'd have to give up a pick for Jimmy g I was like, I wonder if they would just like swap problems. Oh that sounds like a solution for no one. Um. Alright, that is it for the Thursday edition of The Round the NFL podcast. Reminder the TV shows back with me, Mark Sessler. Greg went off and hit on a vacation day in a big spot, but we'll miss you. Colleen's going to fill it. I got got banged and that's essentially moving. Carson wentz forth this whole week off, but then the podcast to last week off. They never ended up getting either, and we ended up getting I think I'm gonna be it's gonna be an upgrade in my chair. Are you going to You're gonna be up and no doubt in skiing? Are you going to uh not watch the program on Saturday morning at four am. I don't know if the play some stain has NFL network. I suppose I could look for it on Game Pass, but no, definitely not, Ricky, Is there anything else we need to get out there? Oh, we're going to Indianapolis on Monday. I was just gonna remind you that getting on a plane headed on Indie. We're gonna have a bunch of guests. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. And when I say guess, I mean head coaches, GMS. And we have a new location as I'm as I'm told that is right where all the action is at the indian Indianapolis Convention Center. Shows Tuesday and Wednesday, and we might we might have so many interviews another one later in the least two. Yeah, you won't get one Monday, but you'll get one Tuesday, as Greg said, Wednesday, and then potentially Friday, Mark might anchor that one solo you'll be getting, not you'll'll you'll get about four minutes from me on Friday off my phone. If that's what we're doing. The off season is here or is it all right? We'll be back with the television show on Saturday morning. Set your DVR or don't go to sleep. That's the way they play it. And then we'll be. We'll see if from Indianapolis next week. Till then heed the call s