C&EN Uncovered: Ongoing tragedies in Flint and East Palestine

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Craig Bettenhausen: Craig,
welcome to CNN uncovered. I'm

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Craig Bettenhausen. CNN
uncovered is a podcast series

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from stereo chemistry. In each
episode, we'll take another look

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at a recent cover story in
chemical and Engineering News

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and hear from CNN reporters
about striking moments from the

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reporting, their biggest
takeaways and what got left on

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the cutting room floor. In this
episode, we're talking about two

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recent cover stories on the
lasting effects of human made

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disasters on the people of East
Palestine, Ohio and Flint,

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Michigan, two communities
separated by less than 300 miles

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that have faced continued
hardships after tragedy struck.

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Our story of 2020 three's
Norfolk Southern freight train

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derailment in the Ohio town of
East Palestine appeared in the

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February 26 issue of CNN. Our
piece on Flint appeared in the

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May 6 issue. We'll put links to
each story in today's show

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notes. I'm here with CNN
physical sciences reporter

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Priyanka runewal, who wrote both
articles. Hi Priyanka.

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Priyanka Runwal: Hi Craig.
Thanks for having me.

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Craig Bettenhausen: So for
anyone that hasn't had a chance

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to read these stories yet, can
you give a brief recap of what's

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in each article?

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Priyanka Runwal: So the two
stories like you mentioned are

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about the two environmental
disasters that have deeply

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impacted communities living in
towns where these disasters

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unfolded now in East Palestine,
Ohio, a freight train carrying a

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whole bunch of things, including
hazardous chemicals, derailed

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from its tracks in February 2023
and offended the lives of many

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people. And in a very
controversial move, authorities

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released and burned vinyl
chloride. This is a chemical

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that's flammable, carcinogenic,
used for making PVC plastics,

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and this chemical, vinyl
chloride, was present in five

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train cars. Now, while the EPA
has maintained that the air, the

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drinking water and the soil is
safe, local people have reported

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feeling sick, and they've been
worried about lingering

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contamination and adverse health
effects. Now, the second story

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is about Flint, Michigan, where
bad decisions were made

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involving the city's drinking
water and that caused lead and

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other metals to leach from the
city's aging pipes that 10s of

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1000s of residents were exposed
to dangerous levels of lead, a

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known neurotoxin, along with
potentially carcinogenic

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compounds like trihalomethanes
and a waterborne bacterium that

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caused outbreaks of life
threatening Legionnaire's

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Disease. 10 years on, the
community is still grappling

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with physical and mental health
problems that was unleashed by

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this environmental disaster. So
earlier this year, I traveled to

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East Palestine, and then in
March to Flint to meet people

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who've been living through these
crises. Talk to scientists

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who've been doing independent
environmental and health

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monitoring in the areas, and
government officials who are in

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charge of protected people in
these situations.

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Craig Bettenhausen: Central to
the lasting problems in East

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Palestine is this decision that
the company made to drain the

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chemicals into a pit and then
set the pit on fire. What was

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the point of setting the pit on
fire? Why not just drain it and

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haul it away?

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Priyanka Runwal: Well, that was
certainly one option, but

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Norfolk southernized contractors
proposed to the decision makers

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that the release and burning of
the vinyl chloride was the only

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viable option. An on ground team
had noted an increase in the

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temperature of one of the rail
car shell and they concluded

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that the stabilized vinyl
chloride in the tank had started

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to polymerize. Now another worry
was that the pressure relief

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devices on these railcars had
malfunctioned. So if the

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polymerization was occurring,
pressure buildup could lead to

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an explosion, which would send
toxic gasses and sharpened in

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all directions. Now, experts say
that such polymerization cannot

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happen without an initiation of
compound that would trigger such

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a reaction. Also the temperature
the ground crew noted wasn't

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high enough to indicate that
exothermic reaction was

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occurring. But there is another
important aspect. The

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temperature did continue to
rise, as one would expect to see

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when polymerization occurs, but
the temperature had started to

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decline before the wendenburg
decision was made. Now in recent

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hearings where the National
Transportation Safety Board

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presented the findings of their
investigation into this

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derailment. They concluded that
this vent and burn was

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unnecessary and that Norfolk
Southern provided incomplete

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information to decision makers
who had few minutes to make that

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call. Now the theory goes that
the train company did this to

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clear the tracks as soon as
possible so they could start

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moving stuff again. But Norfolk
Southern defends its actions by

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saying that other options to
remove vinyl chloride weren't

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feasible because the derailed
cars had sustained damage, and

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that the conditions on the
ground were pretty dangerous. So

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let's

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Craig Bettenhausen: turn to
Flint. Flint is about a big

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story that's an international
news. When the lead level spiked

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in Flint, how has the water
contamination affected the

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community there?

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Priyanka Runwal: The interesting
thing in Flint is that several

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people initially, and especially
children, got their blood lead

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levels tested when that.
Happened, there was indication

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that their lead levels are well
above their dangerous lead

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levels. They're well above, you
know, what is considered okay or

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not less problematic. One of the
things that has been documented,

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to a very large extent is mental
health issues now living through

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a water crisis like this, where
you have people in power that

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are essentially supposed to
protect people and be

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transparent about environmental
issues at play, why people may

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be experiencing certain symptoms
that they do the initial years

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of the water crisis, or the
initial months of the water

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crisis, people in power were
really not being transparent

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with folks living in those
communities. People were on the

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ground protesting, and you had
people in power tell them, you

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know it's all fine and it's
safe. And then you had

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independent researchers coming
in and testing their water and

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telling them you know otherwise.
And so people have lived through

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a lot of trauma. Parents
extremely worried that the high

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levels of lead that physicians
in their town were testing the

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blood lead levels of the
children, the high levels that

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they were detecting, what would
that mean for their children's

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health? Parents, having lived
through a lot of this, have

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experienced mental health
issues. Initially, some studies

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had also documented reproduction
related issues in Flint women

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that they've linked to the water
crises. So you have a whole

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range of things that the
community has experienced

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initially, and issues like
hypertension in adults that

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people are still continuing to
document.

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Craig Bettenhausen: So in both
articles, especially the flint

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one, but both of them, you had
these frank and honest

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discussions about the impact of
race and class on what's

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happening. Tell me about how you
approach writing about some of

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these culturally fraught topics.

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Priyanka Runwal: In the case of
Flint, I mean, I spoke to a

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community member who had been
impacted by the Flint water

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crisis, who has been an activist
in the community ever since the

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crisis unfolded, and one of the
first things he told me was

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that, you know, this is both a
race as well as a class issue.

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Flint is a community where it's
majority black, it's also a

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community that's heavily poor.
So I sort of approached the

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flint story keeping in mind that
this is a larger community that

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is dealing with the water crisis
in the East Palestine case,

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again, it's a poor community.
The socioeconomic dynamics in

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this community are very
different. And so the way I sort

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of reported the story was
talking to several people and

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really understanding who was
impacted most by the disaster in

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whatever way that they were, and
just really trying to write it

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from that lens. So

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Craig Bettenhausen: in Flint,
the effects are clearly about

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the water. But in East
Palestine, where did the

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chemicals end up? Is it in the
dirt, the air, the water. So

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Priyanka Runwal: the EPA has
been monitoring the air, the

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water and the soil. I mean, the
testing sort of indicates that

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the pollutants definitely went
into the soil and into the water

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along the railway track. So when
I was there, you could see this

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large area that's cordoned off
along the railway tracks that

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is, you know, sort of called
Ground Zero, where the train

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derailed, where the train cars
were sort of lying to rail for a

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long time before the authorities
sort of cleaned up that space.

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There are two important local
waterways, sulfur run and Leslie

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run. These are creeks that run
through East Palestine, and they

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were especially heavily
contaminated by chemicals that

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were spilled from the train
cars. Now, over time, the amount

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of contaminants in the water had
gone down, but the sediments at

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the bottom of these creeks are
still potentially contaminated.

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The sediment has been a huge
source of tension between the

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community and the authorities
that are overseeing these

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cleanup efforts. Often,
community members would see a

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rainbow colored sheen on the
water potentially indicating the

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presence of blue boil that leak
from one of the train cars and

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potentially other stuff, but a
lot of the focus currently is to

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clean up and continue testing
the area that's sort of around

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that ground zero location.

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Craig Bettenhausen: So what are
the biggest discrepancies

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between what the agency reports
are showing and what the

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residents are reporting and
experiencing?

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Priyanka Runwal: I think
especially in the initial few

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weeks after the train derailed,
you had the EPA sort of saying,

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it's all fine. The air is safe,
based on what we're testing. The

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drinking water is fine. And they
had cordoned off around the

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Ground Zero area that they knew
was contaminated, and they were

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taking care of that. But on the
other hand, you had people who

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had come back to their homes,
and they were experiencing

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several symptoms, skin rashes,
nosebleeds, tingling of the

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lips, irritation of the nose,
eyes, throat, and that was, I

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guess, one of the biggest
discrepancies. You know. You

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have people with these symptoms,
and they. Don't really

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understand why suddenly they're
experiencing all these health

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symptoms that they hadn't seen
before. You know, you had people

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experiencing all of this. Well,
on the other side, you're

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hearing things are okay, it's
fine. And yes, you can have some

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short term symptoms, but even
when chemicals are present at

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lower levels, and especially
when there are several chemicals

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present at lower levels, we
don't really understand, or

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science doesn't really
understand so well, how exposure

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to chemicals at low levels and
multiple such chemicals at low

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levels, their presence together,
could be problematic for

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people's health. We just don't
have very good answers to those

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questions. A toxicologist I
spoke with said that, you know,

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testing for single chemicals in
itself is not enough. So

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Craig Bettenhausen: you and I
have moved around and live in a

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lot of places in our lives, but
both East Palestine and Flint

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are more multi generational
communities. A lot of the

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people, if not most of the
people, live in the same houses,

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even that their grandparents and
great grandparents lived in. How

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is the recovery going for that
community, that culture in these

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two towns? You know, one year on
and 10 years on, you know,

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Priyanka Runwal: in Flint, there
are people who have left because

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of the water crisis, there are
people who have stayed despite

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the water crisis. So Jamie
Davis, who is the lead in my

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story, one of the things that
she told me was that, you know,

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often she'll have people tell
them, you know things are bad.

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You can see things are bad.
You're worried for your

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children. Why don't you leave?
She said that, you know, it's

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not really easy for people to
just leave. They've lived in

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that town for years. You know,
multi generations have lived in

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that town for years. That place
has been home for them. But it's

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the economics of it also that
she explained to me, for us, I

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think it was a two or three
bedroom apartment that your

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house that she had in Flint, she
paid $600 a month for rent, but

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asked her to move somewhere else
outside of Flint, she was going

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to pay a lot more, and she just
doesn't make that kind of money.

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And just asking that question,
you know, why don't you just

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leave? Is not something that a
lot of people can do. In the

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case of East Palestine, Chrissy
Hilton, for instance, who is the

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lead character in my story,
Chrissy has lived in the house

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ever since she was born, and her
family has owned it, I think

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since the 1970s It pains her to
not be able to live in that

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house again, but she's so
worried about the contamination,

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it pains her to not be able to
go back to that home again. But

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at the same time, just moving
out of East Palestine to another

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place where she can buy a home,
she worries that she may not be

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able to afford it, or she
probably cannot afford it. So

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for a lot of people, when you
think about recovery, one thing

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that we have to understand
people despite knowing that

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there are many environmental
challenges that they're

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concerned about, worried about,
people can't just move.

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Craig Bettenhausen: So between
these two cities, the root cause

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of the contamination is very
different, but a lot of the

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dynamics around trying to get
response from the agency and the

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responsible companies are
similar. Flint's been about 10

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years. East Palestine has been
about one year. Are there

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lessons for East Palestine in
what Flint has accomplished and

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where they've struggled, and
what are those lessons?

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Priyanka Runwal: I think, like
you said, you know, the sort of

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situations or the sources of
contamination are different. How

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the situation played out are
different, but the commonality

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here is the loss of trust
between people in power who

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residents in these areas
expected will protect them

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against anything that would go
wrong and would harm their

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health. That lack of trust, it's
sort of central to how things

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have unfolded, in both cases, 10
years on in Flint, that lack of

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trust still doesn't feel
restored. Having talked to a lot

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of people there, the city has,
in many places, replaced the

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lead service lines the
galvanized iron service lines.

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But even though the levels of
lead are below what are called,

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quote, unquote, actionable
levels. You have scientists on

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one hand that say that you know
any amount of lead exposure is

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not good, especially for
children. At the same time, you

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have people who whose trust was
betrayed. You have lawsuits that

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unfolded, and people in power
who were potentially considered

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guilty, were let off the hook.
And I suspect that even as

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things change, that lack of
trust, which we now see in East

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Palestine, or we have seen in
East Palestine, may continue to

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stay because again, you have a.
Are people in power who probably

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did not acknowledge some of the
very real symptoms that people

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were describing or reporting,
and people talking about this

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unpleasant odor in their house,
and all of that stuff not being

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taken seriously or not
acknowledged properly has sort

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of really led to this lack of
trust. And so I don't know if

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there are clear lessons to be
learned, but there are

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commonalities that I've seen
play out in both places. 10

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years down. If I go to East
Palestine and you still see

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people talking about lack of
trust in agencies that supposed

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to protect people. I would not
be surprised.

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Craig Bettenhausen: So as you
walk the streets in these towns,

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do you feel like these are
communities that are going to

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return to their pre crisis
vibrancy? Are they on the death

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what is the feeling like
actually on the streets of these

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towns

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Priyanka Runwal: in East
Palestine, for instance, if I

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knew nothing about the fact
that, you know, there was a

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train that had derailed, there
was an environmental disaster

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that unfolded, I might not
necessarily be able to say that

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there's something strange or
something eerie about the place,

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but you know, you spent a day or
two and you start seeing certain

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things that serve as very clear
reminders of you know what

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happened. You have boards or
placards that say East Palestine

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strong in several places in
town. You walk into the grocery

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store, or you walk into the
local diner, and you have the

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pin up board with information
about health studies one can

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participate in. You see trucks
going in and out of East

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00:16:48,220 --> 00:16:52,120
Palestine that are carrying, you
know, either contaminated soil

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or contaminated water. It sort
of becomes obvious in Flint. On

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the other hand, it has been 10
years, but, you know, people

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00:17:01,380 --> 00:17:04,860
still talk about the water
crisis like it was yesterday.

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Again, just walking through
town, you see certain reminders

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of the water crisis. I remember
seeing a mural which has a robot

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in it on it, and it says, fresh
produce. And one of the things

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during the water crisis public
health officials Doctors told

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00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:26,360
parents was to feed the children
and their families fresh food,

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fresh fruit, fresh greens, and
that sort of reduces the

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00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,840
absorption of lead into the
body, into the blood. You know,

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those little things sort of
serve as reminders of that time.

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But again, for some people, the
events are so traumatic that

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talking to them feels like
yesterday, that this happened.

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Craig Bettenhausen: Priyanka,
thanks for diving deep on this

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with us.

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Priyanka Runwal: Thank you so
much for having me, Craig.

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00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:52,960
Craig Bettenhausen: So for
listeners, you can find me on

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00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,200
social media as at Craig of
waffles. Where can they find

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00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,160
you? You

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00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,900
Priyanka Runwal: can find me on
Twitter. I'm at Priyanka. P, R,

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00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:06,960
i, y, a, n, k, a, underscore,
runwal, r, u, n, w, a, l, and

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00:18:07,260 --> 00:18:09,720
sorry, that's x. Now that's not
better anymore.

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00:18:11,220 --> 00:18:13,260
Craig Bettenhausen: You can find
Priyanka cover stories about

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00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:17,520
revisiting East Palestine and
Flint on CNN website, or in the

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00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:22,220
February 26 and may 6 print
editions of CNE, we put links in

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00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:24,980
the show notes along with the
episode credits. We'd love to

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00:18:24,980 --> 00:18:27,200
know what you think of Cen
uncovered. You can share your

311
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feedback with us by emailing
cenfeedback@acs.org This has

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00:18:32,540 --> 00:18:36,080
been CNE and uncovered a series
from Cen en stereo chemistry.

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00:18:36,380 --> 00:18:39,080
Stereo chemistry is the official
podcast of chemical and

314
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,440
Engineering News. Chemical
Engineering News is an

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00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,720
independent news outlet
published by the American

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00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,640
Chemical Society. Thanks for
listening. You.